Camp Gagnon - UFO SCAM: Exposing "Alien" Grift | Jordan Sather and Darcy Weir

Episode Date: March 6, 2025

🚨Don't Forget To Rate Us 🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟Jordan Sather is a researcher and content creator known for his work exposing UFO-related misinformation, while Darcy Weir is a filmmaker who has directed documentaries delving into UFO phenomena and government secrecy. Today, they join us to discuss UFO scams and disinformation, including Above Majestic, the Gaia Company, the Galactic Federation, and other intriguing questions about extraterrestrial narratives. WELCOME TO CAMP! 🏕️Shoutout to our sponsors: Magic Spoon, Morgan & Morgan and Bluechew!MagicSpoon: https://magicspoon.com/camp🏕️👕🧢 GET YOUR CAMP DRIP HERE: https://campgoods.co/🏕️ Get The Daily Today In History Email Here (Free): https://camp.beehiiv.com/TIMESTAMP0:00 Intro1:32 How Darcy and Jordan Got Into UFOlog13:40 David Wilcock and Corey Goode’s Wild Theories20:11 Gai Media Company’s Rise24:08 Secret Space Program That Make You 20 Years Younger27:48 Above Majestic + Making a Business From Conspiracies34:12 Gaia Insiders + Operation Paperclip44:55 Why Did Jordan Break Ties With David50:26 What Is The Goal of David and Corey?51:55 UFO Disinformation + Thomas Townsend Brown1:09:33 Corey Goode Sues UFO Researchers1:21:05 Stavatti Aerospace Hoax + Funding Secret Programs1:25:30 Experiences AFTER Researching UFO’s + UFO Film/Documentaries1:36:00 Alien Implants Removed From Abductees + Roger Leir1:41:05 UFO Disclosure + Tic Tac UFO + Shag Harbor UFO1:52:10 Pascagoula Abduction Case1:59:53 Jordan and Darcy’s Personal Experience2:06:51 Why Is Disclosure Happening?2:22:50 Religious Connection to UFO’s2:32:04 How To Point Out Fake UFO Advocates2:38:50 Check Out Dark Alliance For Only .99 cents!!!#UFO #UAP #UFOScams #GalacticFederation #UFODisclosure

The UFO world can be commercialized. I mean, they made upwards of a million plus dollars. Wow, so you can just go on a forum or a message board, aggregate a bunch of conspiracies, tie it into a narrative spattered off, potentially make millions of dollars. If you're out of a job, just call yourself a secret space program whistleblower, and you can probably make some money for yourself. We are uncovering a fraud, a hoax, a really well-constructed, marketed story that mind all of these conspiracy tropes?

There is potentially a grift happening. My cut was 15%. I think the film made million plus dollars too. A bunch of people stopped getting paid, including myself and I think some others. I would venture to guess there's probably about $25,000 to $30,000 I got picked out of over the past probably four years. Maybe even on a larger, more sinister scale, there is a cult that is potentially brewing within the greater UFO community. Specifically, Corey, but what they would do is use the testimony coming out in the mainstream

and sort of tell their followers, look, it's confirming me and my testimony. And that would help sort of imbue that validity or that clever. It's a clever fallacy. Like, they called this crazy and now it's true. So if they're calling me crazy, it will also be true. Darcy and Jordan, how are we? Good. Thank you guys so much for being here.

man. I really appreciate it. This is a really interesting episode for me. I feel like you're going to be able to contextualize and tie in a lot of things that are currently happening in like the UFO, UAP phenomena space. Okay. Darcy, I just watched Dark Alliance. It's fascinating. And I think is a great case study for how the UFO world in some capacities can be commercial. and how there is potentially a grift happening and how maybe even on a larger, more sinister scale, there is a cult that is potentially brewing within the greater UFO community. And, you know, certainly some people will say, look, all of the UFO stuff that's happening right now, it is fully mainstaged is, you know, getting brought to Congress. There are millions and millions of dollars getting funneled into the UFO entertainment space, right? No pun intended, right, the UFO space.

But is it a sciop done by the government to try to make people look crazy and are they propping up people to discredit the entire thing? Is it just a money-making grift for people to get rich? Or are we really on the precipice of some type of imminent disclosure that there are actually non-human entities coming to Earth and messing with human beings? Or is it maybe a mixture of all of it? So I'm curious, Darcy, could you just give the people an introduction to you and how you got involved in this project and then maybe introduced us to Jordan as well and how he plays a role? Sure. So I'm sure he wants to chime in on this pretty quickly, but I'll just say like my background in it. I started making documentaries like research films on this UFO space back in 20, like the first one I released was in 2012.

I was starting to investigate it in 2009. And, you know, when I first got into this, I was a full believer. Everything you could throw at me, I was like, this is real, you know. And I think a lot of people that enter this space, they get flooded by a whole bunch of disinformation, misinformation, misinformation, information, hoaxes, and throughout time, if you stick with it, you're eventually going to kind of like weed through it and find the kernels of truth. And for me, the kernels of truth are there is a very real phenomenon that has been engaging with our planet, so to speak, for decades.

I think there was a cover up, like a legitimate program to say, Nothing to see here, folks, to the public. Some of that might have been sort of reverse engineered black project, you know, clandestine military projects that they were testing out. And regular folks saw it and thought what the hell was that? And then people come along and say, it's aliens or it's the Russians or whatever, right? But some of it, it's possible. We live in a frigging galaxy with millions of stars. And, you know, you follow the Drake equation.

There's probably other life forms out there. And is all of it alien life? I don't know. But I leave my mind open to the idea that maybe some of those cases are, right? Like there's just some really strange events in history that have happened, like Westall 66, Virginia in Brazil. People will say Roswell, you know, there's an old memo from the Roswell crash communications with the Air Force, where it literally says three bodies were recovered from the crashed craft, you know.

So we know that there was some kind of occupants on board. And that's where people go, okay, they were the grays or this or that, right? I'm open to it. But in this docu series where Jordan was brought in to give his personal testimony, we, We are uncovering a fraud, a hoax, a really well-constructed, marketed story that mind all of these conspiracy tropes or themes that existed in the community already, like the idea of a secret space program or extraterrestrials interfacing with us. Doing joint programs in space. That's the Galactic Federation. It's, you know, it touches on all of these things that you can't prove.

It's just straight up sensationalism. And as you watched in the dock, there was a deposition. This all ended in court battles. And that deposition tape was an African-American, Hollywood actor named Leon Isaac Kennedy, his defense team, was examining or interviewing Corey Good, one of the major figures to this cult, let's say. Trying to find out if he actually did go to space as a secret space astronaut or super soldier. What's up, camp family?

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Scan the QR code now or click the link in the description to sign up for today in history. Right. Yeah. I think let's unpack a little bit of what that was. But before we do that, Jordan, how do you factor into this and what was your sort of interest in sort of the phenomena and how did you get involved with this? sort of secret space program organization, or this movement, rather. A little bit of my background, and then I'll give you my two cents on what I think,

but the whole UFO issue. So in 2017, I started a YouTube channel called Destroying the Illusion. And there were three main subjects that I researched and reported on that I was interested in. One was health, one was UFOs, and one was politics. And I had that YouTube channel till right before the 2020 election, I got everything censored within about a week, 250,000 subscribers on YouTube gone, 100,000 on Instagram gone, 100,000 on Facebook gone. So rough time frame there. But from about 2017 to 2020, I was reporting on all those things, the UFO subject, the Q phenomenon, separate conversation. But because of my, I think, how my YouTube channel grew, people like Corey and David kind of saw, hey, I can use this guy.

Because I was believing, I'd been following David Wilcox since about 2012 and reading his stuff and was following their work. And I think they saw me, hey, let's bring this kid in and he can help on some projects and all of that. So he could be an extra layer of influencer work that we're doing. Right. Because he appealed to a younger demographic. Right. And you're also just an additional mouthpiece, right? Like if you're trying to move a message and maybe, you know, rightly or wrongly, like not even trying to speculate on the.

intention or even the truthfulness of what the claim is, just having additional people that can sort of proselytize on behalf of the movement is always going to be beneficial. Exactly. Yeah, and what was it like 100,000 subscribers on YouTube or? So Corey and his team, I think it was Roger, contacted me in about April 2017 when I had about 20,000 subs. And they said, hey, will you come meet us at this UFO conference called Contact in the Desert, meet the team, you start working on some projects.

I said, oh, cool, I'll go do that. So I flew out to the contact in the desert event. And that's where I met Corey and the team and kind of started working on some projects with them. And then quickly we started producing a film called Above Majestic. And me and a videographer were pretty much the main producers of that film. We were going around the country. We were meeting with people.

And Above Majestic ended up coming out in October 2018. But yeah, that time frame of 2017, to late 2019, early 2020, I was doing just a lot of work with those guys, producing films, going to speak at UFO events, going to Corey's house to help with projects like webinars and things like that. So I ended up learning kind of a lot about those guys behind the scenes, how they operated, not just their narratives, but how they were from a business standpoint, too. Right. So now just as people, you know, could you explain sort of who these two main characters of the series are, for, you know, the audience that might have no clue really who these guys are.

Like, how do they come into the scene and how do they sort of gain community? Yeah, that one. I'll take David Wilcock to begin with. So David was the first one to become prominent in the UFO New Age community. He started off making these predictions at conferences and stuff that, let's say, he predicted in 2012. that we were all going to become like completely ascended. We're going to be able to spontaneously be able to fly, telepathic thoughts. Like, it was like we were stepping into this age of enlightenment type prediction.

And when did he make this prediction? 2009 or so, that was that conference. He used to have a blog called Divine Cosmos that got hundreds of thousands or millions of readers. And this was before social media age kind of back in 20, 2011, 2012. I remember reading David's blog back in 2012, and he was predicting mass arrest of the deep state. It's coming next week. It's going to come this summer in 2012. Mass arrest of the deep state and all the sort of stuff. So David got a lot of play, a lot of engagement from his blog. And then sometime about late 2014, early 2015, he brought out one of his insiders that he had never named before, his Secret Space Program, Insiders, which was. Corey Good, yeah.

But before Corey Good entered the scene, just to give a bit more flavor of who the prediction guy was, he was very good at speaking on like esoteric knowledge, like metaphysical theories. He was on ancient aliens a few times. He was on ancient aliens. He got to start there. But Gaia TV, which is this like new agey yoga slash. It's like a new age Netflix. Yeah. They started a show with him called Disclosure.

And he would just wax philosophically about, you know, alternate energy devices and metaphysical quantum realities and all this wild stuff. And he had basically run out of things to say on that show. This is what Jay Widener, you might have seen him in the series. This was the former head of production over at Gaia TV. Jay was really integral to forming these TV shows and forming the character of David Wilcock and pushing his story further and then later on Corey Good. And David basically was running out of stuff. He wanted to make more money.

The trick with that entertainment network was that all of the show hosts made the same. amount of money, even if you were making the company like insanely popular through your show, which I think David was at the time. So he had that upper hand, like help me or I'm going to walk type thing. And Jay said, I can't pay you more because if the other hosts find out will be in trouble here. But why don't you do a second show? And that's when he came up with the idea.

this guy that, um, Corey Good, who wasn't really big in the scene yet, had started talking on a chat forum called, um, kind of like the 4chan of conspiracy theories before 4chan. It's called Project Avalon. Okay. And that was born out of another show called Project Camel, another chat forum called Project Camelot run by Carrie Cassidy and Bill Ryan.

And on that, you know, this is going back to how Corey was mining all of these conspiracy theories and making a mega character out of himself from different conspiracy theories that he saw were getting all of the chats on the different forums. Oh, that's fascinating. Again, I look at this, again, like, I'm less concerned with these specific, you know, like actors necessarily. Like, I have no personal agenda against any of these folks you're mentioning. But looking at this, looking at this as the business of conspiracies and the business of UFOology, it's fascinating. So you have this guy that's wanting to make money. He's putting out this message, gets a channel to making a ton of money, and then now is looking for more stuff to disseminate, has this message board where he's able to basically like, grassroots all of these conspiracies altogether.

And then by looking literally at the metrics of what things are working well in like this little focus group, he can kind of take more or less like, oh, I'll take this one, I'll take this one. Maybe I can marry these things kind of together through this narrative. So that's what Corey didn't and make a show. So Corey, he saw the opportunity to make a character that married Secret Space Program lore, which was really popular at the time. and underground bases and the Galactic Federation and lizard people that were at war with in space and

fighting the deep state too fighting the that was a big that was your attraction right yeah because Q started posting in October 2017 and then Corey kind of gravitated onto that and okay you know one of a whole one of David's whole narratives is he's getting briefings from the alliance briefings on how the alliance, whatever that vague term means, is taken down the deep state. So they kind of jumped onto that idea and then ran with that with a lot of their narratives. So there's a political component as well that ties in because looking at like the general umbrella of conspiracy world, like you have this UFO component that people really like and that's obviously connected to a consciousness component that's connected to a meditation component

to connect to a religion component. And then why is all this being suppressed? Then you tie in a political component. And now you have this whole marriage that creates like a fabric of sort of like conspiratorial belief systems. Yeah. I see. And then if you wrap that up into a nice narrative with good production, now you have a business.

Yeah. Interesting. And Gaia facilitated all that. So Gaia at the time was going through the peak of its popularity. They were, they had like millions of subscribers. Wow. And what year is that roughly that it's peaking? 2017, 2018 or something?

Yeah, 17. Yeah. Wow. Um, their stock rose from like, I don't know, five bucks or something, like 36 or so. I can't remember like the exact metrics there, but it was all around the time that these guys created this new show where David Wilcox would sit in one chair, big comfy looking leather chair. Corey Good would sit on the other side, opposed to him, you know, and. you're asking all these questions. I'm a documentary filmmaker.

When I sit down with the subject, I'm asking questions like, what's your background? Where did you go to school? How did you get into this? This is how they start off conversation on Gaia TV's cosmic disclosure. So,

you're a secret space astronaut who had battles with aliens in space. Tell me about that. Right. Yeah, let's not get the weeds, right? Like, why would we bog down this, you know, chat with all too many facts? You know what I mean?

Verify. Yeah, let's just. Yeah. So that propelled them to this stardom they'd, I don't even think they were ready for. I mean, it obviously works, right? Like, their strategy of not being, you know, burdened by the truth or, you know, some type of, you know, credulous fact checking. Let's just jump into the story, you know, let's get right into it. It's probably going to be a more entertaining program, I can imagine. Yeah, for the people that are into this, they're like, dude, just cut through all of the critical or skeptical questioning and give me the burger, you know, I just want to be, just throw me right into the rings of. Which if you're on the network, you're already bought it. And if you're listening to the network, if you're subscribed to it, like, you're already bought

in, right? Like, what's the old quote? Like, for those that don't believe no proof is necessary, or for those that don't believe no proof is enough and for those that do believe no proof is necessary, right? So no proof is necessary. Let's just get into it. Exactly. Now, for either two of these, these guys that we're talking about, did they have credentials prior to, like, working in aerospace, working in, you know. Negative ghost rider. No, nothing.

No, like, like, because obviously there's, there's people now that exist in the space that have credibility through space programs and, you know, military and things like that. They didn't necessarily have. Hell no. And that was one of the, like, if you watch the documentary series, like Jay Widener was getting. all these as the head of production for this network, before these guys blew up and really started taking the world by storm with this show Cosmic Disclosure, which Billy Carson actually got his start on. And I'll tell you about that later.

Essentially, Jay was platforming Noam Chomsky, you know, like real philosophical and sociological thinkers. like Rupert's Sheldrake, you know, like a parapsychology thinker who's done actual clinical testing of ESP, extrasensory

perception and stuff like that. So Jay was down a totally different track and then this became the hot topic and he was like, what the hell am I doing with my life? Because you can't verify any of the claims these guys are making.

And one of the craziest parts of their story, these guys, the narrative they were fashioning, was, yes, we went to space and we fought with reptilians and we carried out missions around the cupier belt in the solar system and so on. Have we even mentioned 20M back yet? That's what I'm getting to. Okay. Sorry. Spoiler. Spoiler fun there. Is 20 in back? And you can mention what 20 in back is. Basically this idea. and it's not just Corey, there's a lot of others that have kind of come down and sort of data-mined Corey, but it's this idea that they go out on this Secret Space program mission for 20 years out in space and they are age regressed. So they do a 20-year mission, then age regressed to the same age and look to when they left.

And it's just a convenient way where they can say, this is why I look the same now. But I promise you I've done 20 years out in space. I did a 20-and-back mission. and now I'm here in the same. It's, I see the look. You look like, what the hell is? But they're saying this as it is a thing that happened, not like, oh, this, you know, was this unexplainable phenoty? Like, they're telling me. They say, like, I was in a secret military black project and I was age regressed after doing this 20-and-backed mission.

And I'm a whistleblower coming forward. Right. To talk about this reality. See, that's the face people should have when they hear this stuff, but sometimes they don't. For the record, up until this point in the saga, I don't really take any major issue with really what's going on, right? Like, I find a lot of, you know, conspiratorial thinking. I find it very fun, right? Like, I enjoy hearing about it, especially, like, when people have personal experiences, I'm fascinated.

I would love to know, like, oh, you spoke to an entity, you got abducted? Like, tell me about it. Like, what happened to you? And I, on a personal level, I'm trying to sort of discern, like, you know, are you a little crazy? Are you, you know, did something happen to you that maybe is, you know, psychologically being turned into a different event that now you're misremembering or having some of a false memory? Or maybe is there a semblance of truth where something truly strange and unexplainable happened? And, you know, that's also miraculous, right? That's awesome.

See, what you're doing, though, you're coming at it with an investigative mindset. You genuinely want to know the truth. And what a lot of these influencers are doing these days is not necessarily in the investigation standpoint, but they're making, they're making their stories for entertainment. and there's a lot of people following them. They think they want the truth. They think they want investigation, but really they just want to be entertained. Or they want their fears about the world.

They want this hopeium. They want, you know, they want their fears about the world diminished from these narratives they're hearing. And I don't know if they really care if it's true or not. They're just, they're so scared about the way the world's going. So they want this false hope.

They don't think it's false hope, but there's this false hope getting injected in their head. And these are the kinds of influencers that are perfect for that. Right. So like up until this point, though, I hear this and I'm like, look, if people want to get entertained, like, you know, I'll watch ancient aliens and I'm like, you know, I don't know if really any or all of this is true, but they're kind of telling me a fun

story. And so I'll sit on my couch and watch it, right? Like, I have no real issue with that up until this point. So I'm curious, like, does this work that they're doing and sort of the people that they're kind of aggregating around them, does it turn a little bit more? more sinister and getting a little bit more cult-like. Yeah. So.

Especially when money is involved. Yeah. So what happens is they grow in popularity. They're selling out, you know, conferences at contact in the desert and all of these UFO-related speaking engagements. They make the two documentaries after they leave Gaia. And so they leave Gaia in 2018. Can I take it from here? They left Guy in 2018.

Of course, leaving Gaia, Gaia funding. That money is going to dry up. What are they going to do to pay bills now? So then they start getting into let's sell courses. Price of the course was $333 for an ascension course. Hey, fans, buy this course. You're going to learn how to ascend and be more spiritual or learn about my testimony that they've already been telling for $333 or buy this documentary for, I don't remember how much it sold, or $20, 20 bucks, something like that.

Okay, you buy this documentary, but a big issue was that a lot of people working on that documentary weren't getting paid, others as well. So it was... Not getting paid at all. I got paid for about two months and then nothing after that. So I would venture to guess there's probably probably about $25,000 to $30,000 I got dicked out of over the past probably four years in royalties from doing the above majestic film and Cosmic Secret as well. And because I have a production credit on Above Majestic. And from what I was told, I got basically pushed out of having a credit on Cosmic Secret, which at this point... Even though I used your footage. Yeah. At this point, I'm like, thank God I didn't have a credit on that shit.

show of a film. If I could totally do above majestic or redo above majestic, I would. But take Corey out of it. And it'd be a pretty decent film. So there was a lot of business shenanigans selling courses for absurd amounts of money. They really aren't worth

that absurd amount of money. And the business happenings with the film projects behind the scenes as well, the power plays going on. Because you mentioned Leon earlier. So, Leon was basically like David and Corey's business partner at the time, 2019, 2020 time frame.

He was kind of like a door to Hollywood because he came from a Hollywood background as like an actor was connected to Antoine Fukuwa and like all the African American Hollywood community. Leon, yeah, Leon was good friends with Michael Jackson and Muhammad Ali. And he had been in the, he started as a radio DJ. in Ohio and moved out to L.A. in the 70s, and he was in a movie called Penitentiary back in the 70s, and he'd made a name for himself in acting, and then he kind of got out of acting and became more of like a minister. He got in a ministry. So he kind of became like a spiritual helper for a lot of people in Hollywood, and especially black actors and black names. So Leon was interested in this stuff and hopped on to some of the projects to be like a business manager.

And I think David and Corey saw, like you said, Leon was there access to Hollywood, helped them distribute things, help them get bigger, make bigger projects. Anyway, at the beginning of 2020, Leon was handling the disbursements of funds from these film projects and some other things. And not exactly sure what went down, but there was some disagreement between Leon and other business partners and then Corey and David. And in about April 2020, Corey worked with the distribution company to set up a separate bank account to put the royalties from the documentary films into.

When that happened, a bunch of people stopped getting paid, including myself and I think some others. So how much money are we talking? Like up until this point with these guys, because I think a lot of people hear this and they're like, you do these some conferences, you do like a little show on a random network. Like you're making what, you know? They made seven figures from those $333 courses. I mean, they made upwards of a million plus dollars.

Big following. Just from the course. Yeah. Oh, just from the course. Just from the course. And then the films, you know, my cut was 15%. I think the film made a million plus dollars too, you know. And I gave the number earlier of what I think I'm owed since 2020.

and that's kind of gone with the wind at this point. Sure. So people are listening and they go, oh, wow, so you can just go on a forum or a message board, aggregate a bunch of conspiracies, tied into a narrative, spouted off. You intentionally make millions of dollars. If you're out of a job, just call yourself a secret space program whistleblower, and you can probably make some money for yourself. Now, with this specific story, the secret space program story, was there any thread?

Because typically you look at conspiracies and, you know, there's the narrative component, which is, you know, sometimes erroneous or, you know, difficult to prove. But then there are, like, they're built on these foundational little elements where it might be, you know, a leaked document or it might be a piece of video footage. So for the Secret Space Program story,

specifically, what thread was there that was tying everyone in where they go, this could be true? There was... Well, in December 2017, of course, we had the New York Times with their articles and their black and white videos

that kind of started mainstreaming the UFO issue, which I do want to get into kind of discussion of general UFO stuff, but that kind of helped bolster or give credibility to Corey and David, especially in their followers' eyes. Oh, UFOs are going mainstream now. Look at it in the New York Times. Look at these government reports coming out. So that was a big catalyst. A big catalyst. Yeah, for sure right there. And kind of perfect timing, New York Times story coming out in December 2017, right when they were getting big on Gaia. And then they'd love

left guy a 2018-ish, but still, I mean, the whole mainstreaming of UFOs, UAPs, whatever you know, call them, still going on to this day. And then we've had other quote-unquote whistleblowers come out as well. And what specifically Corey, but what they would do is use the testimony coming out in the mainstream and sort of tell their followers, look, it's confirming me and my testimony. And that would help sort of imbue that validity or that It's a clever fallacy. Right. Right. Right. They called this crazy and now it's true. So if they're calling me crazy, it will also be true. Yeah. And it's like, well, that's not how that works. And something you'll see that we kind of like document in the series is the credibility of these insiders. So something David did first and then Corey

copied was using insiders, people that were part of knowing an actual truth of the black budget program or conspiracy technology truth or secret space, all that. This is their appeal to authority. Right. So the first guy to come on the scene was this guy named Pete Peterson. He's in his 70s. he kind of seemed a bit on the spectrum. Like once you got him talking,

he would just talk, talk, talk, ramble on into all these random things. And didn't he claim to be Ronald Reagan's top black project scientist or something? He claimed to have started Cyberdine, which was at the time a mythical technology company that came from the movie Terminator. Okay.

Okay. That should have been your very first like red flag to the community. But they're like, oh my God, Cyberdine's real. Pete Peterson created it. Right. And look, he has military credentials. He did work on this thing back in the 40s. So I don't even know if he had military credentials.

He was just found at a conspiracy conference that had to do with UFOs and stuff. And because he was a talker and he touched on all of these conspiracy ideas when he would ramble, David Wilcoq loved him and brought him on to Gaia to become an insider. And if you watch the series, you'll find out from Jay. He was like, this guy was senile. Like he said they would film for eight hours in a day and come away with only 20 minutes of footage that was used. usable towards the content they were trying to produce. I see.

Because this guy would start off talking about one thing and end up so lost in the woods in the conversation that they had to constantly cut them off and be like, Pete, we're talking about secret space program, not strawberry cakes. You know what I mean? And he'd be like, oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly, right? What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick because you are a grown child.

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Let's get back to the show, you fatty. That was their first insider. And the second insider was in his 90s. His name was William Tompkins. And he actually did have a Navy background. He was a model maker and like made Navy models of like ships and stuff. Like, you know, that's cool and all. He was a designer to some, for in some respects.

But they got him. They turned him into an insider and had him talking about 20 and back. And had him rambling on about how the reptilians gave us craft. And we reverse engineered or were flying those craft in a secret space program with the Nazis. and all of this, you know, the Nazi thing always comes up and that's a really dangerous thing because A, not cool. B, yes, the Nazis, some prevalent scientists came over to the United States post-World War II in, you know, Project Paperclip, which was to enrich and further develop different aspects

of the American military, the space program. You know, you had Werner von Braun, who created the V2 rocket system for the Nazis. And then when he came over, he started NASA basically off onto the moon missions, right? Starting with project with Mercury, Gemini, the bridge to the moon, and then finally the Apollo space program. that would not have happened without this rocket scientist. He was he was also the guy that literally inspired Elon Musk and his family. You can track that, right? Project Mars and having the Elon quote unquote.

Yes, yeah, like that figure in that story. So there's truth to Nazi scientists coming over here. If you look at testimony from Werner von Braun, he denounced all of that. He was like, I didn't want to be a Nazi. I had to. You know, it was like I was German. I was, I had to serve. Right.

Which is, you know, a convenient cover, sure. But also, maybe it's the truth. But at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter because the United States needs to go to the moon. And we also need, you know, military propulsion tech. And this guy is on the cutting edge of it. So who gives a shit what he did? And that's obviously been done throughout history. Like it happened in Japan in certain capacities where there's immunity given to people there for, you know, access to their science.

So, yeah, it happens. Yeah. But what I'm saying is in this community, in the UFO community, that sometimes gets kind of glorified. And there's almost this praising secretly of Nazism because, oh, they were the smartest and they knew all the occult stuff. and they brought it here and helped us, you know, become the great nation. No, they lost the war, okay? And the Americans are the empire that absorbed them, not the other way around. You know, and people lose sight of that and the conspiracy.

Plus, you look at MK Ultra and the way that mainstream media propaganda operates these days. It's very Goebbels-esque. And, I mean, the Nazis came here, their ideologies came here, but they're not good. And a lot of the ways that the establishment or deep state structure in America operates these days is very Nazi-esque with the mass mind control, trauma-based mind control and everything going on. So people tie that in where they hear, you know, like, oh, the Nazis were interested in cultism. And the Nazis developed the best space program. And that's proof that they had no space program. Or I guess propulsion programs and things like this.

Liquid rock rocket system. And so people can look at that and say, oh, they brought these guys over. They were the ones that developed our space program. So that's proof that the Nazis are right. And then that's further proof that they knew things that we didn't know. And that's further proof that they were on the right track. And we should return to that. So William Tompkins, back to that insider, was kind of saying like the Nazis were secretly running everything behind the scenes with the reptilians, the reptilian overlords.

And they built bases in Antarctica to my. My knowledge, Antarctica is incredibly hard to get to to fuel and supply to this day. There is no Nazi base there. Like, there's research expeditions and stuff that still go on there and is more built up now. But post-World War II, no. Like, that's garbage conspiracy stuff. But there are people that have made careers and these guys were making a career. on telling that story as if it was fact.

And they used William Tompkins to proliferate those ideas in the community because he came from some kind of Navy background working for McDonald Douglas, which, you know, was one of these military contractors that everybody thinks they got UFO tech and all this stuff. Interesting. Yeah. So now a lawsuit then follows, show that they're after. Yeah. So he was talking about 2020.

That's the time that I had enough of their stuff about April, March, April 2020. And I'm like, I got to run as far away from these guys as I can. So if you're being fully honest at the time, was that separation due to the financial component or to the ideological component? Ideological. Because at this time, like I said, I got kicked off of pretty much everything right before the 2020 election. I had to migrate to other platforms like Rumble and Telegram and everything. Thankfully, Elon gave me my Twitter account back. But a lot of those platforms are gone.

But also at this time frame, not just in the UFO movement, but also in the sort of MAGA slash Q movement, what are we going to call that? There was a ton of just conspiracy, clickbait garbage coming out from whether that was planted disinformation assets or it was just grifters, opportunists, looking for money, probably a little bit of both. same as UFO community. But ideologically, I just saw, I saw these guys. I think that's about when they came out with their $333 course. I remember, because that was the start of COVID too. And of course, we're locked down. We're not going out.

We're all starting to do live streams on the internet around COVID. And I remember David going on to his YouTube channel and doing this like three hour long live stream. And the title of the live stream, it's still up on his channel, I think. like WikiLeaks drops new files huge bombshell. And I'm watching this thing. WikiLeaks didn't drop anything new. All it was was an index file. It goes around social media every like three or four months.

This old index file is just all of WikiLeaks drops in like an index page. Goes around social media every couple months. People think it's new. Oh my God, we got to dig into this. It's not new. It takes 30 seconds to debunk that and do a little bit of research. it's not new drops. But he did a three-hour-long live stream

titling it. Oh my God, huge new revelations from WikiLeaks or something like that. Claims this index file is a big new revelation and proceeds to shill his $333 course throughout the whole live stream. And I'm sitting there thinking to myself, it took me, you know, 30, 60 seconds

to realize that this is not new. And he, you know, three-hour-long live stream, $333.3. So I'm just like, I can't. So it was mainly ideological just with all the... Plus, he talked about the insider thing. I've got a story. Back in 2018, I was invited by Corey and David

to meet two of their insiders. I flew out to Buffalo, New York. We took a drive to somewhere in Pennsylvania. I don't know. But I spent two or three days with these two supposed insiders of Corey and David's. And Corey was there too. A couple other people were there too.

they were freaking, the only thing they might have been inside was Corey and David's head. So. They were preppers, right? They were pretty much preppers, yeah. Doomsday preppers. And they, um, they ran a camp to show you how to survive if. Yeah. And at first, you know, the, the zombies came or something.

There were two people. It was a man and a woman. At first, the guy showed us this binder of his military intelligence accolades. And he was legit, like military intel. But. Was he? Uh, yeah, I, I. He was, but what they were saying about getting briefings from Trump, they claim to be writing

briefings given to Trump and all the sort of stuff. No. And I was so uncomfortable after that weekend I had never spoken about it. And another thing that left a bad taste in my mouth, particularly about David Wilcock, is that, so I never spoke publicly about going to meet their insiders, because I just wasn't sold on it. A year later, I went to speak at another one of those contact in the desert conferences. and he introduced you as young dumb and full of calm yeah that was that true yeah that's so

I love that this is a separate story but contact in the desert didn't really like how political I got during my talk and they and Gaia kind of pushed censored me out of the event anyway I was supposed to be given a panel appearance at contact in the desert they didn't give me a panel appearance. And then David was, Emery Smith was supposed to appear on David's panel, but Emery Smith bailed. He was probably drunk. And so David was stressing. He needed somebody to appear on his panel, and he heard that I got shafted by contact for a panel appearance. So he called me up. He's like, Jordan, you want to come be on my panel? I'm like, okay, I'll come be on your panel, whatever. So I go to his panel. He starts introducing the people on the panel to the crowd. It was David

Wilcox panel. And he gets to me and he's like, Jordan, remember when we went to meet those insiders? I'm like, I didn't want to talk about this. I didn't know he was going to bring that up. And that's when he said the, you know, young, dumb and full of cum thing. And it was just so, it was uncomfortable for me. It was, I mean, frankly, looking back, disrespectful, too. Like, there's 800,000 people in the crowd and saying that kind of shit. And bringing up the insider thing. And, you know, what am I going to do? Like, how old was I, I don't know, 28,000. 29 year old me, am I going to be like, fuck you, David, you liar, right? No, I mean, I had to be on, I had to be politically correct or like respectful, right? Professional. So I'm just like,

yeah, ha ha, ha, ha, just, you know, but he probably said that because he wanted the validation. He wanted me to validate his story to the crowd to corroborate it. Yeah. How many people were there. Were these insiders ever publicly disclosed at a later point? No. It's a, I'm curious, like, for guys like that, what is their, end game, right? Like, you know, you have these main guys that are making a ton of money, getting notoriety, everything else that comes with that. They're hoping that they can sell their survival camp through David and Corey.

Yeah. So if they end up going like, hey, instead of coming to a conference for $333 this weekend, how about you come to this survival camp with one of our insiders? So it's like a gateway to the business. Almost like how I feel like David and Corey saw me. is, oh, here's this dude getting some subscribers and some views on the internet. We can leverage him to help promote our stuff. I feel like these two insiders saw Corey and David, and they're like, oh, we can bring them in

and make them think we're getting briefings and we're connected to white had government people. I don't know. Oh, you think they intentionally misled them? Yes. Oh, interesting. So they could create this like survival camp to sell tickets to. They would have David and Corey be the promoters of the survival camp and make it a bit. So, yeah, I think they actually got inside of their...

A lot of grifty circle jerking. Right. Yeah, I guess I'm always curious, like, is it... Are they believing their own stuff and making money along the way? Or are they completely lying and then making money along the way? So, yeah. And I'm curious which one and, like, which people are doing which, you know? So amongst all UFOology, this goes for the mainstream stuff we're seeing now.

And I kind of divvy it up into two different groups, right? You've got the conspiracy click. bait group over here of your 20 and back secret space program whistleblowers that like underground social media people like Corey and them that we're talking about then you've got the mainstream group that you're seeing on CNN and doing the huge podcasts and you know getting the media coverage now when it comes to both those groups I'm highly skeptical of both just for different reasons I think amongst the more conspiracy crowd you've got people who are delusional and or grifters, so like he said both, right? Maybe some disinformation assets planted in there, too.

Amongst the mainstream group, probably a little of all those things as well. And you could have some genuine people amongst those groups as well that don't realize they're kind of getting caught up in a sciop more like a useful idiot type where, you know, and at one point I was a useful idiot. I was kind of a useful idiot for this group over here, the conspiracy group, because I had believed their stuff. But thankfully, I kind of woke up and rubbed my eyes and ran as far away from them as I could. But at least for the mainstream crowd, what makes me question that group that we're seeing get all the media interviews and everything now? You know, when it comes to the overarching UFO topic, definitely believe there's intelligent life in the cosmos, you know, just logic. Consider the vastness of

space. I do think not all, but most of the UFO is seen in our skies are manmade craft. This technology been hidden away for decades, electrogravitic or whatever we want to call it. One big thing I question about the mainstream UFO group is this narrative that's promoted by New York Times or I think I've heard Jeremy Corbell and Lou Elizando say this before as well, but they're adamant that none of the UFOs in our skies are American-made technology. Could be aliens, could be Russia or China, definitely not man-made. I worked in the government. I know that for a fact. Well, I think I think that I disagree.

Well, yeah, because I've heard more of what they've said and they're talking about special access programs and reverse engineering programs. So they are alluding to. But reverse engineered alien craft, right? I rarely hear them say it could be human made. But if you make a breakthrough, in one of those programs, you're going to build.

I mean, you've got T-Towns and Brown back in the day, Victor Schauberger, you've got a lot of humans that worked on electro-gravitic stuff. So the way, just trying to forecast and theorize how this whole mainstream UFO disclosure stuff could go, they could try disclosing the tech and claiming, we got it from a crash retrieval, or we got it from an alien crap,

so they can hide the fact that they've had this for 50, 60, 70 years, and it was actually humans that developed. Well, T. Townsendon Brown posed a theory that was never... Okay, yeah, obviously it was curious. It's like an anti-gravitic test theory that was never tangibly shown to work. And that was 1940s. If you did catch a craft UFO craft that was non-human origin, you have that original theory of how this is working,

but you've just gotten a piece of technology that already has it fully working. You know what I mean? So it's like they could abandon just the theory of T-Towns and Brown, and they can go and actually start trying to reproduce it based off of something they caught. Oh, no, I think I disagree that T-Towns and Browns

was never proven to work. To work? Yeah. Befield Brown effect and all that. Yeah, I mean, people talk about the Befield Brown effect, but proved that it actually was testably and verifiably working. No one's been able to do that. I think some people have.

I've seen some videos of people putting, basically T-Towns and Brown was putting... Yeah, can we pull this up, Chris? T-Towns-I've never heard of this. He was putting high-voltage, electrostatic charge into metallic discs. Allegedly, he was making them. levitate and electrogravitic.

So T-Towns and Brown allegedly was creating electro-gravitic effects or anti-gravitic effects through high voltage, electrostatic trout. B-field, bifield brown effect. If you click that. And there's different, there's different ideas about what happened with his research. One theory is that the United States military classified it.

which, I mean, when it comes to the classification of UFO or UAP technologies, there's arguments on both sides, right? If we have, if zero point energy and electrogravitic pulsion is real, well, humans should have it, right? I mean, we're still dealing with Green New Deal scam tech or centralized oil gas coal or even nuclear fusion is still centralized. You need a meter. You need wires to transmit that electricity. if we had decentralized zero point energy technologies where you could have a little box that makes electricity from counter-rotating magnetic fields or from the ether that would revolutionize the world.

So one argument is that humans should have this tech, but there isn't also an argument, I mean if bad guys got access to that kind of technology, what kind of scalar death rays could they make or direct energy weapon technology or that, right? So, like, Nikola Tesla's research being grabbed by the FBI, Donald Trump's uncle, John G. Trump back in the day, there's arguments on both sides. I can see why they would classify some of this stuff and keep it secret. So self-interested evil people didn't get their hands on it. But at the same time, humanity could revolutionize itself and have so much more wealth and freedom if. we had that text. Right.

No, that's interesting. I mean, I've never heard of this specific one. I always am familiar with some of Tesla's work and how revolutionizing, you know, how revolutionary, you know, that would be if it was implemented into everyday society. But I guess I'm curious with this kind of stuff, you know, whether it's provable or not provable, why would there have to be some type of reverse engineered alien cover story, right? Like, I feel like that's kind of what you were alluding to. Like, oh, they can say they're reverse engineer.

Why can't they just say, like, oh, this is. I don't dis. Well, then this would lead into what kind of evil deep state shadow government forces have been trying to keep this secret for 50, 60, 70 years. Control the technology. Control the technology, you know. Operate in the shadow. Rape us dry with a Federal Reserve Fiat money system and oil gas coal and the fossil fuel industry. Everything that's been going on for the past.

Like that's the energy that can work in the public and, you know, run the economy. But this stuff is a no-no. So this stuff is alien, right? This stuff is UFO tech or whatever. That has to be classified. I'm just, I'm cautious with a lot of these whistleblowers coming in front of Congress with a lot of these mainstream media reports. Because if you look up the definition of limited hangout, limited hangout is intelligence, community speak where basically they offer up a tiny bit of truth, a tiny piece of truth

in order to try to placate the person questioning so they can hide deeper, more sensitive stuff. Yeah. A tactic used in media relations, perception management, politics, and information management. So I'm- The tactic originated as a technique in the espionage trade. And especially because it's the New York Times that first popularized this UFO stuff in December 2017, I'm like, ah. Yeah, but it's not like, it's not the New York Times that, that pushed that.

But why did Elizondo and Chris Mellon run to them of all people? It's, first of all, Leslie Keene was already fascinated by the UFO phenomenon. She was dating like Bud Hopkins, who was an abduction researcher. Did John Podesta do a forward to her book of all people? Hmm. Yeah, but, and John Podesta was. was read into some of the UFO information during his time under Barack Obama.

Do you think John Podesta's favorite shape of UFOs are the pizza-shaped one? Oh, God, don't go down that. Okay, no, no. We don't want to get censor on you too. My thing, though, with that even, like, the line of thinking, like, oh, the New York Times are the ones that popularized it.

Like, it almost seems that it must be the case, right? Like, if New York Times never popularized, if they never did a story on it, then the narrative would be, you know, it's being suppressed, why is no one talking about it? And then as soon as a major reputable newspaper does talk about it, then the story is, oh, why are they talking about it? It's a fake disclosure.

So as far as I know, New York Times was resistant to that story going out. Leslie Keene and Ralph Blumenthal really pushed it forward and made sure it got released. And since then, the New York Times has actually done pieces that slam. like whistleblower testimony and stuff. Like they'd been anti-David Grush, who was the guy that came out, talked about the UAP task force not being read into the special access programs to do with UFO tech, not all that stuff, right? So I don't think, I think it's a step too far to say that New York Times is in on some

kind of sciop. I think they just published a wild story. And it got all the headlines and it started this sort of disclosure process where we're living in this right now, where more and more people are coming from places of military and intelligence backgrounds saying they've been read into stuff. They've experienced UAP related stuff, yada, yada, yada. Yeah. So that's my perspective. Oh, no. I've seen enough stuff from the New York.

times over the years. And then we have these new, these new, new UFO documentaries coming out, like Age of Disclosure that have James Clapper, Kirsten Gillibrands in it. I mean, you got Kirsten Gillibrand and her dad's connection to the nexium cult, which I know you've reported on before. You just got a lot of shady people and just kind of involved in mainstreaming UFOs, Gillibrand, Clapper. Some other people are in that too. former CIA guys, former government counterintelligence guys. I mean, it's just it's, I guess I'm

maybe I'm a little paranoid, right? But he's already been used to push bullshit. But in some regard, it's better to, you know, better you safe than sorry. But I just see, I see these people, their backgrounds, the other narratives they push.

And then it just makes me wonder, okay, what's their ultimate goal or agenda with disclosure? Because they're lying about all this other stuff. Why would they be telling the truth about you? fofos. So. Yeah, I think I've met like Tim Gallaudet, for example, former rear admiral for the Navy two star that served during the time that the Nimitz event and the Go Fast UAP video was reported. Chief Oceanographer for the Navy for seven years, I think he has a credible background.

and I think he witnessed the cover up of that footage when it originally was being reported as a safety of flight risk within his team that were running these exercises off the coast of Virginia. There's credibility to the UAP topic. If you want to say, yeah, if you want to, if you want to, like the thing is for that exercise, which they would have had to scrap, It takes weeks and weeks of planning. It's risking the lives of pilots that are possibly running into these things like Ryan Graves.

With his case, I think these objects like spheres that have a cube floating inside of them and stuff, to say that that's like American tech. That's why I said earlier, I think most UFOs in this guy are man-made, but not a man-made. all for sure. And no doubt there's... Sure. Like maybe some are and there's some cover up going on there. But I think that some of the disclosure movement is real and that these people are trying to push us into a new age of consciousness and acceptance of reality that's greater than what we currently are allowed to think in, right?

Like right now, religion still kind of runs the planet. And you do see a lot of that religion stuff permeating into the UFO community. A lot of like Jesuit leadership kind of infiltrating the thought process and the UFO phenomenon. And I can get into that. But, and even like Gaia TV is a new agey, like a Christian adjacent appealing entertainment network. People that were kind of over the good old book and wanted something a little extra. Something that they could really interact with, right? Like you can meditate and feel better.

Like you can like really like sink your teeth into things like that. Whereas, you know, maybe the traditional conventions of church might not have been doing that for people. Right. And it's almost like its own church and entertainment center for people that want something beyond, right? And like a lot of these people, Corey Good is a Christian, David Wilcock, he left that secret space program sort of conversation. Now he's saying he speaks to Archangel Michael and that he's channeling Archangel Michael. and that he's channeling Archangel Michael's like... And he's selling books for $11

of his Archangel Michael channelings. That's what Wilcox's doing now. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick because I need to tell you about how you are potentially entitled for some compensation. That's right.

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It's a huge topic and we could sit here for days. Things blow up in 2020 because Corey Good starts slap suiting everybody that used to work with him on those productions and the guy at top brass. Because he's saying this secret space program narrative is mine. It's my intellectual property. Gaya, you're not allowed to do cosmic disclosure anymore and promote my story anymore and sell that because I want a cut of that. It's mine. And the movies, that's all mine. Jordan, you're not getting your shit. And anybody else who was a partner on that, Roger Richard Ramsore, whoever. He sued Leon that we mentioned earlier. He sued a couple other business partners. I never got sued. I did. get threatened to get sued by Corey and his lawyer, but I never did get sued. Cease and desists that they were hanging out at late. They handed it out to people in the UFO community that just said that they were not believers of Corey Good.

They would get cease and desist emails. Like my friend Richard Dolan, who's a historian in the UFO community, you'll see in that docu series. Yeah, he's been on the show. Oh, great. I didn't know that. confronted Corey Good at that Mufon conference in 2017. Oh yeah, I was there. I remember that.

Right. And the panel was made up of all of these people that are pushing that story. Dolan was like the only one that didn't buy Corey's stuff on that panel. And Mufon put, I don't know, six people up there who were pro-horry Gooders. Right. Like 20 and back and all that stuff. And he checked them in front of the whole audience and was like, there's no verifiable, proof. This is like cheap tawdry storytelling that's a conglomerate of all these conspiracy theories

that were already existing, right? Directly after that conference, he got a cease and desist from Corey's team. I see. So he's suing everybody. You get a lawsuit. You get a lawsuit. Love light and litigation. It starts with the cease and desist, but it didn't go as far as suing those people. It was the people that were actually selling the story that Corey Goods said that he created. And profiting off of the secret space program. That he was like really going after. Jay Widener, the former head of production, he got a lawsuit. Because were they running other shows around the secret space program narrative?

So after Corey left, Cosmic Disclosure got a few other actors on board. So there was Jason Rice who said he was a 20 embacker. there's a guy named Tony Rodriguez Rodriguez there's another dude named Isma Mel Perez this is a fascinating thing though because you're saying hey I was a part of this

program that happened and then other people say I was also a part of it and then he says you weren't a part of it because it's my thing and they go well how is it your thing if it was just a thing you were a part of? Yeah exactly so that's interesting exactly so that's where the community started really

you know, storming. And people are like, what? Like, Corey is the one true God, you know? How is this? But now there's all these other gods in the Secret Space program. And so he sued Gaia because they were producing those shows with the new characters. And that lawsuit is pending as of April of this year, 2025. Jay Widener's case with Corey Good, Corey Good suing him.

That got thrown out last year because there was no proof behind the claims. Jay was just the head of production. And when he left the company, he said, I don't believe Corey Good. And the production that I helped produce, he was like, I'm critical. I don't, I think he's making it all up. And he got a defamation lawsuit. Slapsuit stuff, right? Like if you don't agree with me, I'm going to threaten you.

I'm going to use the legal system. to commit warfare against you and terrorize you with it. And he did that to Roger Richards Ramsoor. That case got thrown out, I think, by his own legal team eventually, because they were just like, we're done. And then he eventually gets deposed, though. He gets deposed in Leon Isaac Kennedy's case. That case got thrown out too.

But the deposition footage. That led to the case getting thrown out. So that had to happen, that deposition, which Leon, one's lawyer recorded, which we show in the series. That's, you know, as a result of that, the case finally got thrown out because the judge that took over all of these cases post-COVID reviewed all of it and was just starting to go like, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. And in the deposition, he basically says, and I don't want to misquote him, but generally speaking,

you know, this story was my body didn't physically transcend. I never actually went to space physically, but my mind. astrally projected into space and ultimately, you know, did this happen to you? And he, it was my imagination. More or less. It was my imagination. It happened in my mind. And it is ultimately my intellectual property.

Yeah. It's my, this is my IP Bible. He calls his comic book, which is like a artistic rendition of his whole story with like, you know, reptilian beings and stuff drawn and all that stuff. So that all went down. Guy, you know, Billy Carson, who's now prevalent in the UFO and like new agey entertainment business, he got his start because Gaia TV was like, we need a new host for cosmic disclosure. David's bailed. He was our big guy.

Who can we get? Billy Carson comes in and a friend of mine who's. a Canadian named Johnny Enoch and they reshoot a lot of stuff. They take down Corey Good shows because they're being sued for it and they replaced that with Billy Carson. I see. Yeah. Interesting. And now obviously, as we know, Billy Carson's, you know, levying lawsuits against West Huff or at least that that was a discussion. I don't know if the lawsuits have actually gone through. So it's what Billy Carson is doing, it mirrors what these other guys have done. Don't disagree with me. Don't challenge me publicly where you're going to get a slap suit, a lawsuit that is terrorizing you and costing you a ton of

money just for the case of doing that to you. And he's admitted that post-West Huff debate where, you know, that live stream that Billet Carson took down where he straight up says, you're going to run out of money. I'm just going to keep coming at you with lawsuits and lawsuits. Right, which I believe levying frivolous lawsuits is illegal. So by... We don't admit that in a loss in a live stream, you dumbass. And the lawyer that represented Corey Good, there should be some problems there for them. I think the bars should look at them because that's what those lawsuits were built to do, to lock up opponents or people that are due money in business that they had done in the past with Adrian Youngblood and Leon, that was the case, and Roger Richards Ramsour. They had these companies they set up together that were the entertainment companies that were driving the income from conferences, documentaries, you know, these web classes or whatever.

Yeah, webinars. webinars and instead because they were in a lawsuit where that was all under contention, that money could not go to those people. It just went to Corey. That was his excuse for four or five years for never paying me. My documented royalties was that the funds are tied up in these lawsuits and these accounts and these accounts need to be audited. It's Leon's fault. They haven't been audited so I can't pay you out. So and at this point, I don't give a shit about the money. You know, even if I, sued for it or anything. He probably can't pay it or whatever the case.

So I guess in this case, looking at this is like a microcosm of how the UFO space can become commodified. What is the lesson, right? It's just the whole conspiracy theory space. Like not just UFOs, but so many subgenres. I mean, you've got these opportunists and grifters and disinformation pushers

that jumped into Q and they tried to water the shit out of that. You know, they watered that down and just made a mockery of something that's legitimate. If you look at the core information of it, there's something there, but you get these opportunist grifters and disinformation pushers that jump into the UFO movement or they jump into Q or they jump into health freedom, vaccine truth, things like that. And they just poison the well. They poison the well with all that.

So, you know, I wonder if there's something to be said for like audience capture and And I guess once money really becomes tied in in a very public way, I kind of feel like that's more or less my litmus when it comes to, you know, the credibility of someone's story that once like a really strong financial incentive comes in like, hey, buy my course, sign up for like this very exclusive, expensive club. I wonder if it even happens intentionally or if it's like a subconscious thing, right? I wonder if there's a story of a good faith person that's really interested in these types of stories. They like to sort of break down the truth. They're truly seeking some type of information that they're trying to uncover through. Obviously, this litany of declassified documents and things like that that probably have a lot of threads of truth. And then as a result, they get into the space, they gain a community, they get credibility.

And then they begin to sell a course. They start to gain a lot of money. They start living a lifestyle. and then they have to keep up that lifestyle and keep up that. Oh, yeah. Money is not the root of all evil. It's the love of money that's the root of all evil. Exactly.

And their greed kind of propels them into this. And then I wonder if they even know that they're lying. You know, like I wonder if they just go, like, I need, like, I'm going to keep on pushing this and my audience wants this. And I veer off in this other way and the audience hates it. So now I have to veer back. And then they just keep on going. Money tends to constantly like become the most. motivating force for a lot of these characters.

You'll keep hearing about their new business opportunities. Like we were talking about Stephen Cambien before this guy, like off the record. He's a guy that runs a show called Truth Seekers. And he's been really going after David Wilcock recently because post, you know, Gaya entertainment and all these documentaries and stuff with Corey, he started a company called Stavis. airspace. And that company was supposed to be building anti-gravidic hover car, UAP sort of commercial

technology for the investors, like Tesla cars, but can hover, you know, on steroids. That type of dream, right? We're taking the blueprints of some of, you know, this type of. Star Wars, like one of those Star Wars. is craft, right? Yeah, hovercraft. And I'm sure they're probably

looking at the old Tesla stuff or old, you know, there it is. And they're saying, yeah, we're going to take these blueprints and we're going to actually make them real. Dude, for like four years,

David has been saying, we're getting funded next week. We're getting a million, a billion dollar next week. We're getting some funding coming in. And all they've done so far is make little tabletop, 3D printed,

3D like plastic models. All of that. CGI, right? That's just photoshopped right there. actually been nothing. So there's a guy. So Stephen Cambian's been covering that story. And there's a guy who's actually, you should speak to him. He's writing a book on the Stavadi airspace scam right now, proving that all that money is not going into this. It's going into other things. And what is, you know, what is Wilcock do? He says he's going to sue

he's going to slap suit Stephen Cambian. So they all kind of follow the same trajectory eventually where they cannot be challenged on the deceptions that they are spreading. And yeah, basically, you know, it starts from this UFO greater truth thing, which there probably is some kind of kernel of truth below all that.

I've spoken about this. before a secret space program, that's very real, right? Like, during the whole time that the Apollo space program was going on, the Air Force had their own. It was called the manned orbital laboratory. And it was a small space station where they were conducting espionage projects at the same time that NASA was putting astronauts onto the moon. Okay.

So there's kernels of truth in a real sense. space program that's secret. You gotta wonder where all the unaccounted for money from the Pentagon has gone all those years, right? I mean, Pentagon was never audited until 2017, Trump's first term, and over the last eight years,

they failed every single audit since. And there's plenty of stories out there. Some in the public domain, and there's a famous scene from the original Independence Day in the mid-90s where they go down in every 51. You don't think they spend $40,000 on a toilet seat, do you? You know, and that there's definitely truth there. There

was a story that came out back in 2018 of the Air Force spending $1,300 on coffee cups. And this kind of price gouging... Or $10,000 on a hammer? Yeah, it had 500 bucks on a nut or a bolt. And this kind of price gouging is just rampant. And actually, you know, we were, you just mentioned USAID earlier. I don't remember if the cameras were rolling it or not. But I'm curious if that kind of do investigation, because just today, Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth talked about he can't wait until there's an audit of the Pentagon. And I'm curious if and when Elon's Doge is going to get over to the Pentagon, start exposing a lot of this price gouging that the Lockheeds and Raytheons and TRWs of the world have done. And maybe that'll end up leading to maybe some kind of UFO

ask a black project disclosure because where's all that money going that's, the Department of Defense or the U.S. government is just getting super upcharged for, right? Yeah, I mean, it's like a trillion dollar a year budget at this point. Yeah, $8.58 billion. You can do a lot of secret shit with that money. Yeah, absolutely. And I look at these types of, you know, the kind of conspiracies. And they seem a little bit more palatable in the sense, like the fall of the money types, right?

Where it's like, you know, there's bad actors that are funneling money and there's secret programs that are happening for, you know, U.S. defense. you know, that makes sense. And then there's secret programs happening at every other major country that's developing, you know, weapons systems that they're also doing the same exact thing. I guess where I

maybe have a little bit of a difficult time where I'm really trying to like tie the, you know, my own personal worldview into is assessing the stories of people that have, you know, experienced things or have seen things in the sky and craft and stuff like that. Or been abducted.

Right, exactly, which I've spoken to many people on this show that have, you know, these, you know, stories of getting abducted or speaking with entities. And if one of those stories is real, it fractures our whole reality as we know it. And I believe some of those experiencers probably went through some of that, right? Yeah, no, I don't think that they're lying. And that's the part that I find really interesting.

Like when it comes to experiencing things that are, you know, I think most people can get on board with like, yeah, there's a secret, you know, program that was done within the U.S. government to develop technology. I think people- boring stuff, though. You're like, what is consciousness? What is reality? I want to get into the weird stuff, right?

That's also a lot more difficult to really pin down. Are we alone? Which is like, are we the top of the food chain here? Right. So the thing that I've found with a lot of people I've spoken with is that typically their stories of experiencing either happen very, very young, like pre seven years old where like they'll have an experience as like a child. And I can look at that with a little bit of skepticism, right? Because, like, as, you know, again, I go both ways or I'm like, you know, children maybe have this. Sometimes children tell you the truth.

They don't have this contorted worldview from society. So sometimes they can say things in a much less filtered less, you know. Right. But then at the same time, I also wonder, like, I've heard the theory. And again, I don't want to necessarily, you know, tout this or put this on to any of the people who have been on this show. But I've heard the theory that, you know, there's a possibility of misremembering things and that you can kind of reallocate trauma that has happened to as a kid and, you know, tied in with like film and TV and then create a false memory of something that happened to as a kid. So I look at some of the

childhood stuff and I go, okay. And then many of the other people I've spoken to that have had experiences, they typically have experiences after they already have an affinity or are drawn into the space. Yeah. So they'll be like, I've been researching this heavily. I've been super committed to, you know, UFOology and I've read all the books. And then I had this experience. Right. And I go, that's okay. Yeah. Can't you kind of say that about Billy Carson?

So his is interesting because I think he had this. He was on flagrant with you and he was like, God, that. How many lawsuits do you want to have against him, bro? Calm down. The great alien was right there. You know, and it's like this guy started off talking about all these like ancient, forbidden history things. and now he's talking about aliens and his like contact experience. This was not part of his original story.

His original story was like the Emerald Tablets of Foth, which came from Atlantis. And he was talking about like, I mean, I just remember the Emerald Tablets thing. Because he wrote a book about that and was selling it around. I think I picked it up and read a couple pages once. I'm like, this is kind of lame. Because I've read the Kaibaldian, which is like a 1905. rendition of the hermetic teachings, hermetic philosophies, and the Kaibalian was a really sort of in-depth esoteric philosophical work. I love that book. And then I read Billy Carson's

rendition of emerald tablets of thulf. And I'm like, lame. Like it just, once somebody becomes like a human Swiss army knife of conspiracies, like the Corey Goods, where they're like, I was in a secret, I was in a secret space program. I've been in underground bases. I've, you know, been abducted. I've,

you know, they've done everything that's the hot, cool story in the UFO community. That's where you have to like, user discernment and be like, what's going on here? Right.

Like that was not, this, it all just seems like it's escalating. And that somehow all of it is true and it's all connected. Yeah. And that's kind of where I'm like, okay, all of it is true.

And the, And the things that aren't true, that's disinformation, which is its own conspiracy and that it's being levied against, you know, my other conspiracy. You know, it just feels like it. The hall of mirrors. Yeah. Sometimes, sometimes I think it's designed to be in conspiracy about conspiracies, but you could have, I mean, if we're talking about intelligence community disinformation, they're going to put out conflicting stories out there to confuse the consumer so you don't know what the hell to think. And that's going to be a hell of an easy way to hide what they want to hide because you're going to put out. confused. This person's contradicting this person. And what do I think? I don't want to think

anything. Then you run away and you don't research or you get caught up into some influencer and into there. Because in the whole overarching UFO movement, there's so many little clicks and groups. Yeah. You were part of one. There, and there's a lot of different ones. And it's just the nature of kind of society itself is where cult-like thinking. Cold-like thinking is everywhere, whether it's religion, science, COVID climate change, atheism, all these little people, you know, veganism, carnivore, people who just get sucked into these belief systems, these ideologies, the leaders are influencers of these specific belief systems, and then they have the enemies of the counteracting belief systems.

And it's just society in general. And they all bring each, like most of the time when they're grifting hard, they're bringing each other up. And they're going, believe him because he's, you know. Supporting my thing kind of. And believe me because I'm kind of helping his theory. Right. So you saw that with David, Corey, Emery Smith was up there totally like, who is this guy, you know? But he carried on one of the longest.

He was doing cosmic disclosure sitting across from people. So you're a secret space soldier. Tell me about that. You know, like he was the host after he kind of like went the furthest. Dr. Stephen Greer, they all keep like down the line supporting each other towards the same end. And their audiences kind of murmur together. So here's the other thing. People are getting superhero fatigue in Hollywood.

I honestly think this is the next big wave. Like we, Steven Spielberg's got a film coming out called Disclosure. The biggest documentaries to be performing right now on streaming services are the program by James Fox. Age of Disclosure is going to come out from Dan Farrah. who was a producer on Ready Player 1 for Steven Spielberg. And he also was a producer on The Phenomenon, which is probably the most successful UFO documentary in history,

James Fox again. That subculture, now it's become super mainstream. Like when I first entered this discussion and researching this phenomenon, it was way down here in terms of popularity. Like I would never talk about this in the public with like friends I went to high school with or, you know, university friends or coworkers. It was like a secret, you know. Now it's public. I'm like, yeah, I think this could be possible and there's bullshit too and yada yada, right?

I keep it kind of like based, so to speak. but there is a ton of opportunity for money in this space now because it's become so mainstream and like there's going to be mark my words because I've actually helped work on a theatrical script about an abduction about the Pasca Gula incident there's going to be like major theatrical films that are going to be, have you ever heard of Fire in the Sky? Vaguely familiar. That's the abduction story about Travis Walton.

Oh, that's right. Yes, yes, yes, yes. That's big, like, that's done gangbusters in terms of performance on, you know, streaming, DVD, VHS back in the day. It's probably the most famous abduction story. This is going to become, and I mean, all the streaming service. right don't you have some celebrities getting around greer to like there was that one yeah uh who god which one singer chick i don't know there was so demi lavato that's right she she had her own show

about this stuff um you know um jenny mccarthy had corey good and david wilcoq on podcast jenny McCarthy had her own podcast that propelled those guys into like stardom even more so. Celebrities are starting to get into this. Tom Tom DeLong is with like Jim Semivan and Hal put off and like CIA guys. And well, I mean, anyways. And then like, you know, Lou Alizondo was connected to that. So there's there's kind of major influencers behind different camps of this stuff. but it's only going to grow.

Right. Yeah. And I think I also, I kind of have like an aversion to certainty when it comes to this stuff in any major way, right? Like even the people I've spoken to that, you know, the people that I've enjoyed on a personal level and then also like really respected their perspectives typically come from a place of like, look, I don't know what to make of this. This is my abduction experience. This is what happened to me. I'm not lying. This is a real thing that I experienced, whether or not, you know, I, you know, I,

went to a different planet or I went to a craft or I just had it in my mind. It's a real thing that happened in my mind or elsewhere. But I don't really know what to make of it. I don't know how it fits into this greater picture. I don't have a thing to sell. It's humility. You can tell there's humility there because they're like, oh, I don't know, but this is what happened. Speaking of Richard or like reading like Jacques Valet's books, like, it's just sort of accounting like, here's what people have said, make of it what you will. There's not some type of like, you know, greater like political agenda or financial incentive that kind of perverts. There's no ascension push.

Like I'm going to help you. Right. Like get through the solar flash that's going to wipe out humanity. Yeah. There's no saviorism that goes on with it. Yeah. What's up guys? We're going to take a break really quick because I'm sitting here in my beautiful tent.

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All right. Now let's get after it. And let's get back to the show. So I do believe more of those people. And I worked with Dolan, like with the abduction phenomenon, there's Roger Lear. He was a surgeon that actually took little implants out of supposed abductees that emitted radio frequencies and, you know, had strange properties, like had their own cell and tissue structure that was growing around them to prevent the body from rejecting

the implant, like stuff that almost seems non-human. You know what I mean? So I take some of that stuff credible. What was it? What was his name? This guy? Roger Lear. Can we pull him up? That's interesting. I'd never, I'd never heard that before. Yeah. And when was he doing that? During the 90s, he actually investigated UFO cases. He was investigating Virginia, the one down in Brazil. He actually flew down early on.

And so he's like the alien implant doctor. Interesting. And have these implants ever been tested and stuff? Yeah. Like what is that turned up? I'm pretty sure a bunch of his medical findings. and some of the actual pieces that were removed have gone to Stanford scientist Gary Nolan. And Gary Nolan is also a scientist that's looked at trace evidence of craft material and tested it and stuff like that,

like looked at metal structures and all that stuff. This guy was putting this stuff under microscopes too and saying like, okay, this is intelligently designed. It doesn't look like a piece of shrapnel, you know, that somebody's misidentified or that I'm confusing. Another stranger part of his testimony is that when he was doing surgery on one of these pieces, it was actually evading or moving in the body to get away from being grabbed and take. Yeah, there's, he wrote a book about this stuff, you know. And was it ever like, accepted by, you know, like the modern medical establishment? Was it ever looked into from like peer reviews, quote unquote or? No.

As far as I know, it was like, you know, widely rejected. So I think there is something, if any of that is true, what the hell? Yeah, that's right. Like that is, you know. Yeah, I mean, even Grush's testimony, like, right? Like, if that, any component of that, like, non-human biologics, like, you know, archaeological dig sites of, you know, the craft and stuff, it's like, kind of, it's mind-shattering. It's truly crazy.

And I guess the other element of, like, the current status of, like, the UFO phenomenon, but then also kind of the greater conspiracy world, but just keeping on the UFO topic that I sometimes struggle with and I feel like culturally people are feeling this way as well which is like okay when are we going to actually get right like this whole disclosure thing of like when are we even going to see like a picture or a video what does disclosure even mean though right like first let's define that usually it's not defined and how can we expect the government to tell us what does the government even know because this subject would be so compartmentalized within the government so what does the government even know?

People think of disclosure as being official president comes out or some official comes out and says all this, but what, I mean, I guess what I wonder is why do people expect disclosure to be that? Or I guess more so maybe like a phone just like documenting something undeniable or something in that regard, you know?

Like it seems like even with like drones over New Jersey, everyone's like, oh, is there a craft over New Jersey? And then you see the video of it And it's like a blurry kind of orb. And you're like, all right, that's not. And that could be honestly a plane in the distance because when you see the headlights of a plane from a distance, it looks like a round circle of white light, you know. So I think people are kind of waiting or feeling like, you know, throughout this, you know, timeline from, you know, like who was a Betty and Barney Hill, right? Like all the way from that first abduction.

Okay. We didn't have like video footage or anything But now that everyone has phones all around the world Why is it still so hard to get some type of concrete Just you know a video of something entering into our into our atmosphere What would it look like that's the question right? I think it would look like a ball of light Yeah I think if you like are following this properly

There's a few pieces of testimony that point to there being tons Of crystal clear footage pictures, radar data, all attached to real UAPs of possibly non-Earthly origin, entering our atmosphere, flying in, you know, cis lunar space and, you know, around our planet, all that type of thing. And one of the major things from the past UAP congressional hearing was Michael Schellenberger's and Jeremy Corbell. Jeremy Corbell was actually the independent journalist that brought the Immaculate Constellation paper report to Michael Schellenberger, the journalist who broke the story.

And that supposedly is a satellite system and a ground base tracking system, dishes and stuff like that, that is very advanced, you know, 4K footage, let's say, that has been tracking all kinds of objects. It's broader capabilities is probably, you know, usually meant for keeping track of our adversaries technology, maybe a nuclear launch, that type of thing. That's where they would really be initially interested. But it's also very great at capturing anomalous objects.

And so with that, apparently they have captured all kinds of data that's not released to the public. That is classified. My buddy Jay was describing this, Jay King. I don't know if you're familiar with him. Yeah, Jay Christopher King. Yeah, yeah. Nice guy.

Yeah. Also an experiencer. Yeah, absolutely. He's been on the show a couple times. And, uh, yeah, he was describing in relation to this. There was some type of, I forget exactly, maybe you can fill in the blanks if you're familiar, but it was a government doc that had seen under the water a craft that was like being worked on. And that there was like documented footage of it that was never released or something to that effect. Have you heard of this?

I got, I got to recall exactly. I don't know whether you're talking about the shell. Melbourne incident, which happened in 1960 off the coast of Nova Scotia, Canada, or if you're talking about, like, essentially what the Tick-Tac activity was, because there's a journalist based on the UK who apparently was told by, you know, one of these whistleblower dudes that before the Tick-Tac was picked up in that UFO video that Mick West and. the debunkers and stuff debate back and forth with Merrick and other people that think that that was a real incident. Those objects were seen entering and exiting the ocean from possibly a larger UAP emitting craft, essentially. Maybe that's what you're talking about.

The way he described it was like they had done some type of like submarine up where they saw a craft under the water getting worked on by what they described as like non-human life or something to that effect that they were trying to like fix the craft or something to that sounds like Shag Harbor which happened in 1967 there was an object seen crashing in the ocean off the coast of Nova Scotia that incident was heavily reported by a guy named Chris Stiles who's also Canadian that's the waters that this was spotted in. He also uncovered documents from 1960 that was an earlier incident that the Navy and NATO like US and Canada joint operation were doing like a mine sweep sort of not program or test,

but like exercise in that area of Shelburne, which is also around Shag Harbor. And they came across, apparently, this is all covered in sweep clear five, Christal's book. They came across an object that was in the ocean on the sandbar there. And non-human intelligence kind of like grays were swimming around the object trying to fix it underwater, out of sight and out of sound. And it just so happens this NATO Navy exercise. stumbled across it. When they did the divers

and the ship that was closest to the convoy of ships doing the exercise, they initially they came aboard and they were so startled

that in the captain's log you can actually see that they declared DefCon one which is the highest DefCon you can go to. Am I right?

Something, yeah, maybe. Right. I can't recall. Five to one. One's the highest. Yeah. Right. And like we have, I put that actually in a documentary that I released like two years

ago now. One year ago now. I don't know. It's all blur called transmedium. Mm-hmm. Talking about these ocean-based, like a history of ocean-based UAP activity. Right. And Christal's talks about that DefCon one being.

And if you look up online, DefCon levels on like Wikipedia, that's never been officially declared as something the United States or NATO has initiated. It's never been that level. And whatever happened with the sort of conclusion of the Shag Harbor incident, it was sort of like logged to like, the military records who were part of that exercise said they saw non-human intelligence swimming around a craft like Christals interviewed the divers that were on that exercise and got testimony and the testimony from all the people that actually saw the craft crash into the ocean that night in 1967 and stuff but it never got officially recognized by the Canadian government or the American government, even though NATO got involved, like, um, trawling that area of the ocean,

trying to find survivors and, you know, trying to find debris from the craft and stuff. Like, as far as I know, it just faded into obscurity and was never fully acknowledged, but hundreds of people witnessed it. Hmm. Yeah, it's very strange. I mean, it reminds me of a Rendell Shum Forrest incident where, you know, like multiple military personnel see this thing land, someone gets close to it, allegedly touches it, I believe, like downloads this information. Jim Pedestin at the first night touched it. Um, you have, um, Jonathan Burroughs, the second night sees a UFO goes and gets sort of like exposed to radiation or something.

And believe it or not, he's come forward. His story has been covered pretty well. He said that he went to, he had a heart valve issue and he went to declare his medical benefits as a ex-air force personnel during that time. But when he went to claim his health benefits to cover that surgery, he was not allowed to because the military. classified his work, all based around that Rendlesham incident. And believe it or not, the only way it got reinstated was because how put off Kit Green, who were involved with Two the Stars Academy at the time, they took this to John McCain, Senator John McCain, who is now passed, who advocated on behalf of veterans because he was a

Vietnam War veteran himself. He ran that up the flagpole and actually got the attention that was required to get that service record reinstated and declassified. And John Burroughs finally got the coverage for that ailment because of John McCain. Wow. Pretty wild. Yeah. Are there any other stories similar to this that are sort of on the record in that same

way that you find extremely compelling that you feel like is not really discussed at length or, you know, maybe people aren't as familiar with similar to Shag Harbor or Rendlesham? Well, yeah, I think I just released like actually a docu-series on an abduction case called Pascagoula 73. And that is such a well-documented case at this point. It's covering two Mississippi men that were fishing on a row. river called Pascagoula, October 11th, 1973, they said that night a craft came,

this object landed or kind of like hovered behind them. They turned around these three beings that are of a description we've never actually heard before. Like we hear about grays, we hear about human looking occupants and stuff like that. But these things were more like robots. floated down to them, kidnap them, took them on board, examined them. Did,

for Calvin, who was 19 at the time, he was, some medical sort of stuff was done to him, blood taken, apparently, they were dropped off after this point. And it became a national sensation

because J. Allen Heineck, who was actually, part of the Project Blue Book Air Force investigation into UFOs for two decades. He came the same week and examined the men with James Harder, another professor at a, I think it was Berkeley or one of these universities. And they declared they thought the men were telling the truth. They had physical things. There were pictures taken where they were punctured and stuff.

where they said they felt like they were kind of sedated during this experience. And yeah, the Air Force eventually got involved. The police force from that area got involved. There were hundreds probably of witnesses in the Mississippi area that experienced this UFO flap right around the same time. nights before during that night. Apparently, Sheriff Fred Diamond, who planted like a secret tape recorder in their interrogation room, he came out to the newspaper that he saw a UFO two nights before. So something was going on in that area that was very prevalent.

I feel like because there's so much. testimony based around that case, something had to have happened. Mm-hmm. Fascinating. Yeah, that is bizarre. I've never even, I hadn't heard of it outside of you, you know, kind of putting it on my radar. It's a different abduction case because of the beings that were witnessed, you know, there's

a guy named Michael P. Masters. I don't know if you've ever. Yeah. Yeah. He actually talks about that case as being a strong candidate for like a future human sort of interaction, right? Yeah. Because these beings almost seem like

Androids or robots. And then the one female entity that was apparently on board was robotic in nature, but seemed humanesque. You know? And so his whole kind of like argument in that case is, well, how do we know it's not us from the future that sent back this craft to examine a couple humans on the timeline? do some, you know, tests genetically or whatever, put them back. Okay, bingo bango, see you later. Right. Yeah.

Yeah, I spoke with Michael on the show about the future human hypothesis. And it's an interesting theory, kind of like as the domestication of humans goes on, right? We kind of go from these sort of, you know, early hominid types. And is it possible that in that progression of, you know, the Anthropocene, we end up looking like, you know, yeah, these types of grays. or things like that with, you know, larger heads, encephalized brains, smaller mouths, things like that. Don't need dicks or pussies anymore. Yeah, exactly.

We're already there, bro. Oh, shit. Yeah. I don't know if my vibe with the aliens or future humans thing. So, I mean, why would they feel the need to do that? If they already have their history or whatever the case, why would they need to go back in time? Plus, the whole idea of time travel, it's, I don't think it's that simple as you're

able to go back and fiddle with stuff and go back to your normal time. I mean, well, Michael brings up an interesting point. He says, what is the likelihood that if there were entities or I shouldn't say entities, rather, beings that are evolving independently from us on, you know, some other type of, you know, galaxy or some other type of, you know, star system that they would develop as, you know, bipedal hominids? Right. Like, what is the likelihood that they would evolve in the same way, despite being in, you know, potentially different situation. Why aren't they spider beings from Sirius B? It could be a universal archetype found throughout the cosmos,

a sort of bipedal, sort of star frame with sort of fractal frame, right? I mean, we have this body that leads to arms, that leads to hands. I mean, it's kind of like a fractal body that we have. So it could be a sort of blueprint, assuming it's the case, but maybe there could be other kinds of life. We were mentioning earlier about the whole angels, demons thing. You know, this is something I see talked about online and in podcasts and whatnot, too,

the idea that extraterrestrials are just interdimensional beings. They're demons or angels. Or, yeah, interdimensional demons or something like that. And I think that gravely oversimplifies the conversation because when I look at humans, are we not also interdimensional? Sure, we have a meat suit body, but we also have this consciousness, this, you know, power of thought that can do wonder. So I think all life is in some way interdimensional. Why would extra-stress your life be only interdimensional?

And also, on the flip side, why would it be only physical? Why not both, right? or why would it be only evil and demonic or only angelic? You've got some UFO influencers saying all extraterrestrial life is good. Greer. You've got some saying all is evil. Plenty of Christian adjacent say that. Why not both, right?

Humans have all kinds of different agendas, all kinds of different interests. Why would extraterrestrial life not as well? So I think it's there's many, there's many possibilities, right? It's probably physical, probably also interdimensional. There's probably evil ones. There's probably benevolent ones out there, right? It's my opinion. It's probably a mix of all of them.

Yeah, yeah. I'm curious, have you ever had some type of anomalous experience? Have you seen or interacted with... I've seen stuff in the sky, but no, no like beings or shadow figures or anything like that. And the things you saw in the sky were they remarkable in any capacity? Oh, for sure. Yeah. I mean, I was out in the middle of stick in this...

Out in the middle of the sticks in Washington State looking up, definitely not a helicopter. I know aviation lights when I see them. Definitely not a drone. This thing was too high. It was moving like a satellite, which I also know how satellites move linear, very slow, same luminosity. But then it stops and then it gets bright for about five seconds, 10 seconds, and then it just fades out completely. A couple of those experiences, actually. I had another one a few weeks later, different area of Washington State as well.

I don't think those ones are man-made. So I have had, I have seen things in the sky. Maybe I have had an encounter with some sort of, I don't know, interdimensional being. I took some mushrooms once. Could be a catalyst. I'm very familiar with siloacidum, but I had one bad trip one time. And I think I had a seizure doing it,

which I wouldn't blame on the mushrooms. would blame. It was my fault. I was drinking caffeine and lack of those other things I was doing. But anyway, I think I had a seizure. And I just remember seeing like white when I was out. It was pure white and some kind of angelic being, I guess we could say, or something that just like let me know it was all going to be okay. And then I kind of came back to. Wow. Not. But yeah. Interesting. And Darcy, have you experienced? anything and all the time that you've researched and worked on this kind of stuff?

Yeah, I've had weird. I've seen, I've had two UFO experiences. When I was living in Australia, I saw an object go over top of my head, a buddy and I at the time living together in this area called South Oakley, suburb of Melbourne. We were walking for pizza one night, and we saw this bright object. We were talking, and it came into our periphery right above all. and then did a zigzag and went over the horizon, like in seconds. And a conventional aircraft cannot do that. Like it was also a uniform bright, like orb sort of light the whole time.

It wasn't like a meteorite that seemed to sort of like expand in brightness and then fade out because it was burning out in the atmosphere or something. No, like it was really weird. we both looked at each other after that happened. I was like, did you see that? He's like, yeah. Okay, let's go get pizza. Like, that was weird. And another time I was actually on a flight when I was like 20.

This is way earlier in my life. And I was looking out a passenger airplane window. I think it was flying from like Denver at that time somewhere. It was daylight. and I was looking at the window, I was like, man, like, just thinking about UFOs. And I looked up instead of directly out and I saw what looked like a metallic cube. And it was close to the plane, but like kind of pacing. And I was like, so I reached for this like camera, this pocket cam that I had.

Back then, you know, it was like flip phone shit for me. So it wasn't like, you know, you had a 4K camera in your pocket, but this was like a separate camera device. I was turning it on and looking and the thing just kind of went and just sailed above the fuselage and I couldn't see it anymore. And I was like, am I losing my mind? So I'm turning to the person who was riding middle seat beside me and I'm like, like, and I was just like, is the plane going to go down? I'm like, I didn't know what the hell was going to happen next. Or if I had just imagined it, like, those were my UFO experiences. And as far as like some weird thing that I've experienced, like, something I can't really explain that's, you know, possibly a non-human intelligence or whatever, I don't know what it was.

I was lying in my bed. I was in my 20s. This is much later. I probably was hung over and I had taken like a Tylenol three or something. Like let's just fucking hammer this thing home and not have any feeling. And I was lying there closing my eyes. And I started feeling like kind of like this vibration in my head. And I'm like, that's weird.

And I was starting to get a little bit freaked out. And then when I opened my eyes, it's pitch dark in my room or like almost pitch dark. I saw like what looked like a humanoid figure standing over top of me looking down on me. And I like completely flipped out. I did this like fighter flight reaction and kicked my feet up where this thing would have been. And it like just disappeared. And I was like, what the fuck? Like, is there something in my room here?

And there was nothing there. But I distinctly remember that. And all I remember is like this sort of vibration thing happening in my head before that happened. And I don't know if I was losing my mind or hallucinating because I was like, you know, a combination of this Tylenol III and hangover, whatever. But that was weird. because I actually visually saw something, and I don't visually see stuff that's not there ever in my life.

So, so far. Right. Yeah, it's, I mean, so bizarre. I mean, that would be a pretty strange experience to feel that. Like, were you laying your bed in this thing? Was that the foot of your bed? No, it was kind of like over top of me like this, like looking down right over my...

On the side of your bed. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like doing almost this like pull-volter. like kick up. Yeah. You know. And how did you feel afterwards?

Like pretty jarred? Like were you able to fall sleep after? Yeah. I was scared. I was like, what the hell just happened? Am I losing my mind? You know? And had a hard time getting to sleep.

Strange. Yeah. And so I'm curious, like, given kind of everything we talked about, like, you know, your own personal experiences plus this sort of recognition that like there are like grifters in the space and people that are sort of like peddling false information in order to make money and sort of like this cult element that we've discussed. And then also like these weird declassified military documents that point to, you know, unexplainable technology and things like that.

Do you have some type of, you know, personal theory that kind of ties things together for you, just on a, you know, personal level of like kind of what to make of this and, you know, how do you explain everything basically we've discussed? I think that possibly part of the. reason we're getting disclosure from a mainstream perspective right now is because our technology is catching up with detection of this stuff in our reality at a greater rate than ever before. One of the things that you can actually track in all the conversations from Ryan Graves and Lou Elizondo and all these like military people that have been pushing the disclosure thing right now,

right around the time that all these things were being detected on these missions, they always state the radar and the Fleer technology was upgraded on these F-18 fighter craft. So we're getting these detection technologies that are seeing into an unseen world that we can't see with our physical eye more and more. And so the activity is upticking, you know, Arrow, for example, they got stood up, the old domain anomalous resolution office or whatever. And they're getting 600 cases and can debunk 300 of them. You know what I mean? Every year they're getting more and more cases. And that's because our systems that are reporting them are becoming more and more. sophisticated. And I think as we approach technologically and consciously this singularity where we're going to have AI interfacing with our reality more and more, discerning things that are happening in our reality for us and making us more aware of what's going on around us, we're eventually going to get disclosure that

something else is here that can't be hidden anymore. Do you know what I mean? Like we are going to become so integrated with information and technology eventually that we're going to be aware of the things that are around us that are, that were unseen, that we couldn't classify or understand as well before. That's my theory. That's why I think it's happening now. It's because we're at like this precipice where it's going to be unavoidable.

Now, does that look like, you know, intelligent non-human entities coming from a disparate, you know, star system? Or it's sort of this like consciousness interplay where maybe these things are sort of interfacing with, you know, our consciousness or all of the above? I think all of the above. Honestly, like when you hear about like Grush talk about it's a plethora phenomena. Like it's possibly non-human intelligence from another star. It's interdimensional beings. It's stuff that's existed here and lived at the bottom of our oceans or something, you know, but is more sophisticated than us. But we're just not aware of it.

You know, it could be all of this stuff. But again, as we become more and more integrated with technology and become more and more aware of what's possible in our reality because we're literally using an enhanced conscious tool, that's why disclosure is happening. Because it's like, okay, guys, we're not alone because there is something here. I see. And yeah, similarly with you, like your own experiences. and then additionally being involved in a group that has later been, you know, shown to be, you know, fallacious and having been used in that capacity, you know, do you approach these things with, you know, more skepticism and how does that sort of affect your general worldview when it comes to, you know, understanding the anomalous in this way? Some big-ass questions there, man, with a lot of ways to answer that. I've got basically two answers.

one microcosmic, one macrocosmic looking at us as people and then sort of society or the world as a whole. Us as humans. I think when it comes to, or what should I say, disclosure is going to be a lot easier when we look at our belief systems. So we've got so many ingrained belief systems, whether they're religious and scientific and whatever the case, political. it's going to be a much easier time figuring out the truth about our reality because we've got so much to unlearn. We have so many mental programs from decades, centuries, millennia, ingrained into our heads of religious and scientific propaganda,

dogma, if you will. And there's so much, I mean, to get to the truth about our reality, there's going to be so much that we unlearn. There's going to be a lot of cognitive dissonance in people's heads. It's going to be uncomfortable for a lot of people having to admit that maybe not only them, but the authority institutions they look up to don't really know, or we're feeding them missing disinformation for decades, if not centuries. So, you know, disclosure is going to be a pain in the ass for a lot of people.

I think a lot of folks look at it like, ooh, it's so exciting. Oh, my God. But I think at the end of the day, it's going to be a freaking, it's going to be, an upheaval. It's going to be just a mass awakening and it's not, for a lot of folks, it's not going to be a happy experience depending on how easy they can change their mind and how easy they can take in new information and discard old beliefs that don't serve them or don't, don't mesh with the new facts they're finding out, right? The thing about these beliefs, these belief systems, people hold them dear. It's an egoic thing. It's a sense of validation. It's a

sense of their identity. And at the end of the day, people love slapping labels on themselves. I'm this. I'm this ism, this is, this, right? It's, it gives them a sense of self. So it's going to be, it's going to be a doozy for a lot of people with this capital D disclosure if and when we get that. Societally, I think there's a lot of forces working behind the scenes within the government and the intelligence community for multiple aspects of disclosure. I think there's, it's almost like a shadow war, a shadow civil war within government and military intelligence. You know, I look at the UFO issue. Darcy does a lot. His sole focus is on UFOs, so he knows a hell of a lot about this issue and has done a lot of fantastic documentaries on that.

My research and investigation over the years has been on a variety of things, so I definitely keep track of what's going on with UFOs and different groups and all that. But I, I, I do politics. I do health-related things. I research a lot of other stuff. And I guess from my political researching, it's kind of influenced my beliefs or understandings of UFOs. And I do think within government and military, there's various forces or various factions in play. One group probably wants more of a self-interested disclosure, half-truths and whatnot to serve their own selfish agendas. And I think there's forces behind the scenes trying to push for a more full or open disclosure to truly help humanity. So that's the kind of lens that I look at things through

when I see disclosure, especially at the mainstream level. I'm like, okay, which force might be trying to influence this for what agenda, you know, and the internet. The internet's revolutionized our world. It's revolutionized everything. And I think the internet is, causing I guess both of those shadow groups, if we're gonna use a vague generalization here, like good and bad, the bad groups saw the internet come out, oh my god, look at all these people sharing information now, oh shit, now we have to do something

because they're starting to ask questions and share research, so we're gonna have to come out with some sort of like limited hangout, have truth disclosure to cover more stuff up. Good guys go, ooh, we can use this internet to help get more full disclosure out. right? I mean, the internet's a really, if you look at the internet itself, especially social media, it's a blessing and a curse. You know, you can use the, you can use the tool of social media to

program, ruin your life, get brainwashed, but you can also use it to wake up the world and, you know, share information in podcasts and start businesses and really change your life for the better and help the world. So I think this internet really changed the game. And now we've got forces, kind of using this ability to share information en masse to the world for different agendas with disclosure, which is why I'm hopeful but cautious, cautiously optimistic with that disclosure and things I'm seeing sort of at the mainstream level. And I don't pay much attention to the grifters and the opportunists anymore. I worked with a couple of them years ago. I only worked with them for maybe two, two and a half years. I was 26 or 27.

when I first started working with Corey and David, and I was about 28, 29 when I ran away from them as fast as I could, and I'm 34 now. So, you know, that was years ago. I don't pay, I think exposing general conspiracy clickbait is very important, which is why I decided to do Dark Alliance with Darcy and why I devote some of my citizen journalists work to going after just conspiracy clickbait all across the board. you know, it goes viral on social media these days. And I do think there's DARPA, AI tech, or paid bots that help amplify it to poison the well. Yeah. Do you think in this current administration there'll be more steps towards its closure? Do you think Trump has a desire to expose those things more than other candidates? And I don't think it's just Trump. I do think there is a force of people behind the scenes, right? I mean, we talk about a shadow government of the deep state,

of evil psychopath people, which is becoming evident that there's a shadow government in that regard. I also think there's a shadow government of good guys who are trying to do the right thing. I mean, people look at CIA or government general or military intelligence and they have this like black and white thinking about it. All CIA is bad. All NSA's bad or whatever the case is but. DIA.

FBI. All government's bad. There's got to be good people. There's got to be good people. behind the scenes there. People who don't want their name and face out to the public, but who are really working behind the scenes to get the truth, to expose corruption, to expose the fraud and abuse, to get the truth out to the people. And I do think there's good guys behind the scenes who are trying to get the truth out about the UFO issue as well. So at the end of the day, I don't know how we're

going to get there, but I do think we will get to some form of disclosure. It might not be like everything we want or it might blow away our wildest dreams and expectations and we get we might learn more than we ever thought we were going to but don't know how we're going to get there but i do have faith that we will and i do think there are good people working behind the scenes to make that happen i will add um you know i think why the slice that's in between maybe the the real truth and the grifter. The reason why the grifter or the exploitative force is so effective on praying on the UFO community is because there are people who enter this subject. They've experienced something themselves and they're going through some level of ontological shock

to do with the subject. And they're vulnerable, right? They're literally like, I need answers, right? So they go out into the community or into this group that are murmuring together. And the people that are the most convincing, the most charming, the most charismatic and thought provoking are the ones that say, I know the truth. I can deliver you salvation and I can save you and I can give me your money and I will give you the real disclosure. That's why it's so effective because people, you know, even with Jordan, part of his story is he was coming into the conspiracy space and he was not fully aware.

He was younger. He was exploring all these possible theories and ideas. And he got, you know, eventually swept up into something that was not credible. But he started from a place of general intrigue and wanting to know more. And a lot of people are entering this in the same place, but they get taken advantage of. And they dig their feet in, they dig their heels in on this subject so substantially that they never will admit to themselves that they've been conned. And it takes a really strong person to finally admit that they've been conned. And I think you'll see in the documentary series, Dark Alliance, that, you know, Jay Whedner, the former head of production at Gaia that was putting together these conspiracy tainment programs, he did not want to believe he was concedure. he was conned. He wanted to believe that these guys were telling the truth. And eventually he gets cancer and he's like, I'm piecing out of this. And by the way, these guys are full of shit. Then he gets pulled into that lawsuit with Corey Good for defamation, all that stuff, even though he was trying to do something good. He was trying to correct the record historically. I don't support this,

right? I think there's strength in character there. And there are people that are exploring these ideas, but when they become so enamored and so bought into certain characters in the field, and there's way more of them than Corey Good and David Wilcock, they will live the rest of their life following those people. And they'll very seldom admit to themselves that they had been conned. What's the old Mark Twain quote?

It's easier to trick him in than convince him he's tricked. Yeah. Yeah, it's an interesting problem. And we've kind of skirted around the angel and demon thing a little bit. And I'm curious, like, your perspective on that as well, like, obviously growing up very Catholic, anytime I discussed this with my mother, you know, she'll be like, oh, it's obviously demonic, right? And if I were to explain to her, like, the experience that you had, you know, or even the experience that you had, my mom would be like, oh, yeah, it's obviously, you know, it's obviously the supernatural of the spiritual world. I'm curious,

do you, does, like, your worldview kind of hold any space for that at all, or is that immediately kind of written off? It's a semantics issue, right? Good extraterrestrials, angels, demonic, bad extraterrestrials. Like, at the end of the day, we're all trying to describe the same thing

just with different words based upon basically how we grew up, our experiences. So we're using different words to describe the same thing. It's our own lens. Yeah, it's our own lens. I think at the end of the day

just boils down to a semantics issue but people are arguing over these different word choices and things like that. But yeah, sure. Aliens, angels, demons. Yeah. Well, I

have a certificate that says I am a Catholic. I'm not baptized. I don't practice. I got the slap. But I think it's an old world. old world way of looking at a phenomenon that we didn't understand back then, but we projected this idea in order to understand it back then to a phenomenon still going on today,

right? So it might have been happening all along. And I actually hold like a Twitter space every Wednesday night with a web radio called KGRA radio. And I, pipe through the audio from that to their radio station and then it becomes a podcast like a Spotify episode or spreeker and stuff and just to like really push that angels and demons conversation i had a demonologist this guy james uh bishop james long who has like a tic talk following of 800 000 subscribers and stuff you should speak to him but i wanted to you to him to come on because he has studied the Catholic religion and demonology, and he's done multiple exorcisms himself. And I wanted to sort of have him check how demons match up with

abduction or contactee experiences. Does that mesh up? Can you call graze, for example, a demon? And he said, no. He was like, what a demon's in the Catholic scripture, what a demon's job is, is to desecrate the human body and to break down faith in Jesus Christ and God. That's what their mission is. And the only vessel that they can invade and desecrate is a human body. So he says possession happens to a human. And they destroy the human body. They break down the faith. They try to destroy belief in Jesus and God, therefore. That's what the whole possession thing is.

It's a demon destroying a human and breaking down their will and faith and all that stuff. He says nowhere in the scripture, nowhere in the belief system, of Catholicism and what demonology describes, does it describe use of a UAP or UFO craft? Demons don't need that. They're a spirit that only invades a human vessel to, you know, say a big FU to Christianity. And he's like, and further by extension, you know, a demon. does not need to fly around in a UFO. It doesn't need a physical vessel other than a human body. And it doesn't need a non-human body like a gray or a reptilian or a, you know, people talk about these other human-looking aliens and stuff like that. Like that is just not that's not their forte. That's not what they're said to do in scripture. So that was pretty interesting when I had human that. space because if you go on UFO Twitter or Twitter spaces, many, many, many Christians or Catholics

will describe, they'll just say, oh, you know, aliens or demons. But he even as a bishop believes in UFOs. He believes in extraterrestrial life. He even says the Catholic Church has, you know, and the Pope have made a proclamation that if there is non-human life, they were also created by God, that, you know, there's a possibility for that. And they're just another, you know, version of life that was created in the universe. And so he says, you know, demons and angels are different things from aliens. And angels, for example, they cannot. manifest on earth in the earthly realm. They're only seen at death or in heaven because that is

their God has locked them to those realms. Do you know what I mean? So anything that's manifesting in our realm that's not an it can't be an angel. It would have to be, you know, demonic or something like that. Interesting. Now, if, I guess just kind of... Not that I, and, you know, I just said all that and I don't even believe it. Right, right, right. But I'm just bringing in... If someone is coming from that tradition.

If somebody's coming from that tradition, I'm saying this is what a subject matter expert from the Catholic church is saying. Right. About that. Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, I spoke with a demonologist type that had performed exorcism as well. This guy, Ralph Sarci. And he, I mean, he took on a pretty... starkly different approach. And obviously he's like a much more traditional Catholic. And his assessment was like, you know, if there's a some type of abduction happening or someone that is believing that this is occurring to their body, then, you know, he was like, like, I would consider that in some form, like a desecration. And in the sense that if someone's having like, you know, organs harvested or like there are these stories of like, you know, like women having like egg harvesting through. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's reproductive. Yeah, stuff. And so, yeah. So he's like, I would consider that.

in some way desecration. Then additionally, he says, if someone has this anomalous experience that no longer, you know, believes in, you know, the church, then certainly that would shake their faith in Christ as a Savior. So I asked him a similar question. His approach was very much like, this whole thing is demonic. And I was like, but of course, you know, he's obviously a Catholic person. So that's going to skew sort of his perspective. So back to Bishop James Long, he was saying, you know, if you hear about a case where somebody's being. abducted and then they screamed like Jesus or like some kind of, you know, belief in God.

Are there cases like that? Yeah, there are. There are people that said that that thwarted the progression. He was like, then I could believe that that was probably demonic in nature because you just spoke a word that prescribes to God and the Savior and so on and so forth, right? But there's people, there's a guy that runs Mufon. He's like a state director in California. His name's Earl Gray. No.

Yeah. That's his real name? Yeah, his name's his name's Earl Gray. Hilarious. This is his last name. I'm actually supposed to speak with them soon coming up. But he had abductions and that's where he became aware of this phenomenon. And he said, you know, coming as a, from a Christian background, he was deathly frightened and he screamed out like, Jesus, save me and stuff like that.

And it didn't thwart anything. So when Bishop James Long, here's about those descriptions, he's like, it doesn't sound like an abduction. It doesn't sound like a demonic thing to me. It sounds like something physical that, you know, should have, if it was something truly demonic, that's not something they're down with. Oh, that's interesting. Wow. So I guess just to kind of like button up, I'm curious if someone is interested in, you know, this world and they're getting into the UFO space, like, do you have advice? like do you have advice as far as like staying away from grifters, how can they sort of keep their heads on and not just completely, you know, fly off the deep end and, you know, get either caught up into a world, get caught up into a cult, lose all their money or maybe most importantly lose their mind.

Yeah. I kind of mentioned some of this stuff on Julian Dory. So I'll state it again. If somebody is mentioning fundraising, like give me your money towards this cause of disclosure or. you know, I can save you from the aliens or something. Fundraisers usually, even with this group, they were doing fundraising like crazy for all kinds of bullshit that never, it just seemed like they were just lining their pockets. That's a real grifter move. So beware of that. Ascension or the love and light slash fear model where you say an impending doom is coming.

But if you follow me and my love towards you and my teachings, it will prevent the doom. That's like number two, big time cult move. Beware of that. Third thing. What was I going to say the third thing? thing was. I've been talking all day. But the third thing, I'd say, you know, if there's no facts, written documentation, evidence that comes back to like an official source, like, government, military, something like that, it's just a story. Right. And we as humans,

we're camping out right now, we survived off of campfire stories, off of a fire that kept us warm at night, that we could see each other and could possibly see predators about to kill us in the forest or near it or whatever. We tell each other campfire stories to stay awake, to stay aware,

and to remind each other to be vigilant. but not all stories are made the same. And if you're telling, if somebody tells you a story that's fear based and it's like meant to trigger you and program you, uh, just beware that like it is part of our DNA to tell these stories out of survival methods. Like,

these guys are literally watching the tribe sleep. And they need to stay up to guard us from a bear or something like that. So they try. trigger each other. They tell each other's stories. You know, this is the way we've been for a long time. So beware of that because that also stokes paranoia and delusion that, you know, has existed in our DNA and we're always looking for, I mean, men especially, we're looking for that on the edge scary theory. And there's sometimes. nothing there. Yeah, that's great. Anything you want to contribute to that topic specifically of getting

you know sort of absorbed into groups of bad actors. Comes down to controlling our emotions, you know, being the master of our own emotions and not letting other people control them for us. You know, when I listen to these grifters all across social media spectrum, this conspiracy movement, that disclosure conspiracy movement, whatever, they often tell you how to how to take what they're about to say. You know, this is going to be disturbing. This is mind-blowing. This is going to scare you.

This is going to amaze you, whatever the case, right? They're sort of preempting what they're going to tell you with the emotion. They want you to feel. They're injecting that emotion into you, right? It's neurolinguistic programming. Studying neurolinguistic programming, studying logical fallacies, studying persuasion techniques. Very important to kind of defend yourself against that kind of manipulation.

and those kinds of sci ops. And when it comes to... Lost a life. Yeah, when it comes to the money aspect, it's a sticky situation, right? Because we're all independent content creators, filmmakers, whatever the case, podcasters. And we look at the mainstream media.

They're making millions, if not billions of dollars to lie their freaking faces off to us. You know, we need alternative media to have some sort of support, monetary support, to continue doing what they're doing and to share the truth. So it is important to support independent contact creators, but you've got to make sure they are offering value,

something legitimate and not just some save your mindset of, you know, I'm going to save you and donate to me so I can help you out and get all your problems to go away. help me save society, help me save the planet, right? Yeah. I mean, shit, I remember back on one of Corey Goods old websites, he called himself the Enoch of our modern times. Hmm.

Yeah, that's a bit of right there. So, you know, the people who you do choose to support, make sure you follow them for a while, get to know who they really are. There's only so much you can really get to know about a person just watching them on a screen. But you can get to know some about people watching them on the inner. Just make sure you watch them for good amount of time, make sure they're

not contradicting themselves or being inconsistent with their words, make sure that their actions follow their words, and they're not just saying a bunch of bullshit to a camera when they're total jackasses when the cameras are off, right? So there's a lot to do to sort of defend yourself against manipulation. And these things will impact your whole life, right? You'll be able to defend against manipulation from your boss or your friends or family or significant other whatever the case. You just make sure it's not happening with the person that you're watching on the screen. So it just comes down to being a critical thinker and just being cautious with yourself, with your time, your energy, and your money. Yeah, that's great. And if people are curious

about seeing a, I guess a case study of, you know, bad actors in the space gone awry, dark Alliance is available. I checked it out on Amazon, but I'm sure it's available all over. It's here selling it for whopping 99. So there you go. Low low, low price of 99 cents per episode. And that was four years of work. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that'll get you your PJ home, right? That's who you said. You were flying back on the private jet is what you said. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Maybe you can fly him back. But yeah, it's also on like 2BT, Roku, a bunch of other streaming platforms. And if people want to see some of my other research, they could search my name, Darcy, we're on Amazon, on Tobe, on Roku, like, I've got quite an extensive catalog. Or they can check out my website, occult journeys.com is the studio site.

Amazing. Yeah. Well, gentlemen, thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate it. Thanks, and yeah, next time you're in the city, let's do it again. Awesome. Sick. Thanks, guys.

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