Camp Gagnon - When the U.S. Military ADMITTED It Had a UFO

Episode Date: March 12, 2026

Today we discuss the Roswell UFO incident, break down every component, the government's involvement, and other interesting topics...WELCOME TO CAMP! 🏕️Shoutout to our sponsors: Ultra and Hims & Hers Gett 15% OFF For New Customers With Code “CAMP” Who You Visit http://takeultra.comFor Simple, Online Access to Personalized and Affordable Care for Hair Loss, Visit: http://hims.com/campWant the even WILDER theories?SIGN UP TO THE PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/cw/CampGagnon👕🧢 Shop CAMP Merch: https://camp-rd.com/collections/ufo🎟️ 🎫 Comedy Tour Tickets: https://markgagnonlive.com🎩👽 Daily Dose Of History: https://www.dailytodayinhistory.comTimestamps:0:00 Mac Brazil Spots UFO Debris3:44 Newspaper Released + “Weather Balloon” Coverup6:21 Jesse Marcel Handles UFO Debris7:56 Discovery of Alien Bodies10:52 Second Crash Site + Pappy Henderson14:59 The Roswell Report19:42 Project Blue Book + AATIP24:35 Distrust In Government26:46 What Really Happened at Roswell?#podcast #foryou #interview #mystery #horror #knowledge #history #science #campgagnon #ufoキャッチャー

The Army Air Forces has announced that a flying disk has been found and is now in the possession of the Army. In 1947, the United States military issued an official press release, and it announced to the world that they had recovered a flying disc. This is real, not a weather balloon, not a radar target, a flying saucer. That crash landed on a ranch in New Mexico. It hit newspapers across the country. Headlines were exactly what you would expect. And then within 24 hours, the entire story fan. The military changed it. I mean, suddenly it wasn't a flying disc at all. It was just a weather balloon. And that single

retraction created the most infamous UFO case in human history. And nearly 80 years later, we still don't have a clear answer. Because here's the thing. Both sides of the story have problems. The believers have to explain why there's no undeniable physical proof. But the skeptics, they have to explain why the United States Air Force needed three separate official explanations. Why is there so much cover to debunk something that was supposedly just a balloon? If it was truly just a balloon, why does the government keep talking about it? Well, today we're going back to the New Mexico Desert and walking through everything. The debris, the witnesses, the cover of allegations, the disturbing possibility that the truth might be too terrifying for either side to really admit.

If you were interested in UFOs and aliens and, of course, the deep lore that goes into this specific case, Roswell, New Mexico, that truly put the UFO conversation on the map in the United States. Well, this is the episode for you. So, sit back, relax, and welcome to camp. What's up, people, and welcome back to camp. My name is Mark Gagnon, and thank you for joining me in my tent tour every single week. We explore the most interesting, fascinating, controversial stories from around the world from all time forever. Yes, that's what we do here in the campsite.

We try to go on rabbit holes and wormholes and other types of holes to figure out everything that's ever been going on. Yes, and I want to thank you so much for being a part of it. Truly, every time you click a video, you comment, you like, you make my dreams come true, you keep the lights on here in the tent, and you keep the fire burning. Now, it's also not possible with that, my dear friend, Christos Paccidapodos, he is the Greek freak, he's the legend on the ones and twos. He is the man with a plan that makes this entire thing happen. So, tough further ado, Christos, we're talking about Roswell. Have you ever heard of this? Absolutely. I'm glad you asked. Roswell, New Mexico, all right? This is maybe the most famous

UFO crash retrieval as it exists within UFO lore. Now, for me, Personally, I don't really know what's going on here, okay? And that's the thing. No one really does. Like I said, there's interesting and strange things on either side of the conversation here. So I'm going to do my best to accurately and, you know, as responsibly as I can, go through all of the details, all the evidence and all the weird discrepancies that still haven't been explained 80 years later. So where do we begin? Well, it all starts when a rancher named William Brazil. But he went by Mack. And in early July, 1947, old Mack was working his usual rounds at the J.B. Foster Ranch about 75 miles northwest of Roswell, New Mexico.

And somewhere between June 14th and July 3rd, the exact date is a little disputed, he came across something strange, scattered across one of his pastures. We're not talking about like a couple little scraps. Brazil described a debris field stretching roughly three quarters of a mile long. I mean, just think about how big of a area that is. There were pieces of rubber and tinfoil and paper and sticks, but most importantly, this kind of like lightweight metallic material that he had never seen before. So he told neighbors that when you crumple this material up, it would unfold itself and go back to its original shape, no wrinkles, no creases. It's nothing that he had ever handled on his ranch or anywhere else before.

Now, it's important to remember for context. By mid-1947, America was one. what you could consider in a UFO wave. Just two weeks earlier, on June 24th, a pilot named Kenneth Arnold reported seeing nine weird objects flying near Mount Rainier in Washington State. He described their movement as saucer-like, basically a saucer skipping across water.

And a reporter turned that into the flying saucer, and this is the term that we still use to this day. And suddenly, all over the country, people were reporting these similar sightings. So when Mac Brazell heard about this flying saucer thing the radio, he thought maybe this stuff that I found on my ranch is connected to this phenomenon and what this pilot saw in Washington State. So on July 7th, he drove into Roswell and reported the debris to the local sheriff, this guy named George Wilcox. So Wilcox goes to the farm,

checks it out. He doesn't know what to make of it. So he decides to call in the Roswell Army Airfield. That's the RAAF. And this is the home of the 509th bomb group. Now, the 509th wasn't just a military unit. It was the only nuclear. It was the only nuclear. armed bomber squadron on the planet. Yeah, like they're literally a nuclear armed bomber squadron. They're the only one and they happen to be in the area. This is the same group that dropped the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki just two years earlier. These are not like junior officers that get put in the field.

They're trying to figure out what's going on, right? These are the most elite airmen in the entirety of the United States, maybe in the whole world. So the base sent Major Jesse Marcel, the intelligence officer of the 509. along with a counterintelligence corporal named Sheridan Cavitt. And they basically went to go examine the debris. Now, Marcel and his team collected the wreckage, loaded into vehicles, and then brought it back to the base. Or allegedly brought it back to the base. We don't really know exactly.

Now, here's where things get strange. On July 8, 1947, the base's public information officer, Lieutenant Walter Hout, he issued a press release, authorized by the base commander, this guy, Colonel William Blanchard, also known as Butch Blanchard. He announced that the 509th had recovered a flying disc. They just put that out there for the public, like the next day. Like this wasn't a tabloid story. It wasn't like the top of like some, you know, shady newspaper. This was the United States military on the record telling the world, hey, we have a flying saucer. So of course, everyone goes crazy. Like the story is everywhere. It's on the front page of basically every single newspaper around the world. But it doesn't

last long because within a few hours, the narrative starts to shift. So, Brigadier General Roger Ramey, he's the commander of the 8th Air Force in Fort Worth, Texas. He then takes control of the situation. Marcel was ordered to fly the debris to Fort Worth for inspection. And this is where one of the most controversial photographs and all of UFO lore gets taken. In Ramey's office, Marcel and Ramey were photographed posing with wreckage spread out on the floor. And you can see the photographs here, but here's the problem. Marcel later claimed and maintained until his death that the debris shown in those photos was not the same material that he recovered from the ranch. He said that the real wreckage had been swapped out and replaced with pieces of a weather balloon.

So General Ramey held a press conference announcing that this whole flying disc business that everyone's talking about, it's not what you think. Okay, this is just a standard Rawwin target. This is basically just a weather balloon with a radar reflector attached to it, okay? And the press basically just accepted the explanation. They were like, oops, are bad. And for the next 30 years, that was the story. Now, here's the thing that's weird with Roswell. It didn't become the UFO case immediately. It wasn't like, oh, we're all going to go to the Roswell Inn and, you know, buy alien merchandise. Like, it wasn't that. For three decades, it was just kind of like forgotten. And the Roswell story was basically dead. Of course, you had like,

your casual UFO hobbyist that would talk about it, but, you know, they said they got something, turns out they were wrong, they showed his pictures, looks like a weather balloon, case closed. Then in 1978, a nuclear physicist and a UFO researcher named Stanton Friedman was giving a lecture in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. And after the talk, someone went up to him and they were basically like, you should talk to Jesse Marcel. He handled the wreckage from a crash-flying saucer in Roswell. So, of course, Stanton is, you know, fascinated by this. So he goes to track Marcel. down and Marcel now retired in his 60s told a story that hadn't changed since 1947. And he basically told him the material that I've recovered at that crash was not from Earth.

He described metallic beams with strange purple symbols or like hieroglyphs on them, you know, that basically no one in the entire unit could identify. He described materials so thin that it looked like tin foil but it couldn't be bent or cut or burned. It was like almost indestructible. You could literally hit it with a sledgehammer and it wouldn't even dent. And then he said that the military covered up the real nature of the debris and he basically stood on that story for his entire life. Now, Marcel's testimony kicked off a chain reaction. In 1980, Charles Berlitz and William Moore published a book called the Roswell Incident. And suddenly, the whole case was blown wide open again. More witnesses started coming out. Some were military

personnel, some were civilians. And some even told stories that went beyond the debris. Now, This is where we get to alien bodies. Now, again, this is all pretty wild, especially for the time. But now you have people like Dave Grush going in front of Congress saying, we have recovered non-human biologics. What does any of this mean? I don't know. But regardless, Glenn Davis, all right?

This guy is a mortician working at the Ballard funeral home in Roswell in 1947. So the base calls up this funeral home and is like, hey, do you guys have like caskets that seal perfect, like hermetically sealed caskets. And then they're like, oh, what chemicals would best preserve bodies that have been exposed to the elements? And then they were asking, like, how would you handle remains that had been out in the desert sun? Just kind of like, you know, strange questions that you could kind of chalk up to just like,

oh, I guess they, you know, had a soldier that died out in the desert or something. Now, Dennis claimed that when he later drove to the base hospital for an unrelated matter, he saw strange debris in one of the ambulances. debris with weird symbols on it, eerily similar to the ones described by Jesse Marcell. He said he was confronted by military police and even threatened and then allegedly escorted off the base. Now, he also claims that a nurse at the base, whom he identified as Naomi's self, told him that she had been present during a preliminary autopsy of these small, non-human beings. She allegedly sketched the beings for him, and the beings that she

sketched had large heads and small frames and weird hands. Now, what does any of this mean? No one knows. Again, the skeptics take on this Glenn Dennis situation is pretty brutal, but I think we should discuss it. Researchers have never been able to verify the existence of this nurse, Naomi's self. Never in the Roswell files or on this Air Force base or, you know, anyone there being having this name. And the name may be a pseudonym or maybe it was just completely fabricated. We don't know. Dennis has also changed some of the details over the years, and critics call his account possibly the weakest link in the Roswell chain. Over the decades, dozens of military veterans and their family members have claimed, even up until late in their life, that non-human

remains were recovered at Roswell. So Walter Hout, the same press officer who wrote that original flying disc release, remember him, he signed a sealed affidavit to be opened after his death. When he died in 2005, this affidavit was released. And in it, Hout claimed he personally saw the craft and the bodies in a base hanger. He said Colonel Blanchard took him to see the wreckage and the beings were about four feet tall. Now, whether you believe this account or not, you just have to kind of wrecking with the fact that like multiple career military officers made these claims knowing that it would bring them ridicule, affect their careers, affect the way that people perceived the fact. them and their families and their whole legacy. These weren't just anonymous people on the internet being like, oh, I saw some lights.

No, these are men with actual service records, security clearances, and reputations and expertise in the field who had virtually nothing to gain by speaking out and a lot to lose. So, according to the lore, again, the debris field on Mac Brazell's ranch was just the beginning. Many researchers believe that there was actually a second crash site, often cited as being near the San Augustine Plains, where the main fuselage of the craft allegedly came down intact. Now, this is where the recovery teams allegedly found the occupants of the craft. It said that there were four beings, three were dead, and their bodies were mangled by the impact and by exposure to predators. But the fourth, this is the crazy part, the fourth was

allegedly found to be alive. Now, I know it sounds crazy, but let me explain. This ripple in the story brings us to one of the more credible witnesses in this entire saga. It's this guy Captain Oliver Henderson, also known as Pappy. Now, Pappy Henderson was a senior pilot at Roswell with a top secret clearance. He flew high-ranking officers and critical cargo, and for basically 30 years, he kept his mouth shut. But in the 1970s, after seeing a news report about the crash, he finally broke his silence to his wife and then later to his daughter. And he sees the stuff on the news and he basically looks. of his wife and he's like, well, I personally flew the wreckage and the bodies out of Roswell.

And he described these beings that he saw get loaded into the plane as small and they had large heads and kind of sunken eyes and that he said that the material he flew was, quote, out of this world. So where did Pappy fly them? Well, the flight logs and the witness testimony is point to one place. And this is Wright Field in Dayton, Ohio, also known as the Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. Now, if you follow UFO lore, then you'll probably know that, Wright Patterson is kind of the holy grill. Even if you're not into UFOs and you're just like military tech, Wright Patterson is like up there, okay?

This is the home of the foreign technology division. This is where the military takes enemy tech to basically reverse engineer it. And I mean, there's like all the coolest aircrafts and, you know, the B2 spirits and all that stuff. A lot of them are at Wright Patterson. Now, according to the legend in the UFO lore, this is where the Roswell wreckage and the remains were taken. specifically to a place within the base called Hanger 18, also known as the Blue Room. Now, of course, this Hanger 18 and this whole allegation is what exists in the UFO lore. This is an allegation.

It's not actually substantiated fact. The government hasn't come out and been like, yeah, we took their remains, put them in Hanger 18, but this is what people have put together. Hardcore fans will tell you that the survivor often referred to as EBE, extraterrestrial biological entity, was kept alive at a secret facility. Some say Los Alamos, some say Wright Patterson, up until 1952. Now, is there proof? Do we have photographs? Do we have people on the record saying, yes, this happened? No. But it is a fact that in July 1947, multiple cargo flights were authorized from Roswell to Fort Worth and then from Fort Worth to Wright Patterson. So the movement of heavy cargo did happen. Now the question is, was it weather balloons, was it random military cargo, or was it? non-human intelligence put onto this plane. Who's to say? Hey, we're going to take a break really quick

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It really helps us out a lot. Thank you guys so much. Feel better, sleep better, get less anxious, but stay locked in. Now let's get back to the show. Now, for over 50 years, the weather balloon explanation held up. But in 1994, under pressure from a congressional inquiry, initiated by the New Mexico Congressman named Stephen Schiff, the Air Force released a new report.

They now admitted that the weather balloon story was in fact a cover-up. They said, look, we said it was a flying saucer, and then we said it was a weather balloon, and you caught us. It was a complete cover-up, but it's not for aliens. They say that this debris came from a top-secret operation called Project Mogul. Now, this was a completely classified program that basically launched high-altitude balloons in a specific array designed to detect Soviet nuclear test through this acoustic monitoring technology.

Now, these Moga balloons were basically, like, a bunch of standard weather balloons strung together in like a chain, and they all carried radar reflectors and acoustic sensors. Now, Flight number four launched in early June, 1947, and they say was likely the candidate that caused the debris in Farmer Brazil's field. Now, honestly, on the surface, surface, this explanation works really well. Project Mogul was real and was classified at the time.

The balloon arrays were large and pretty unusual. And they could easily scatter debris across a wide field if they crashed. And of course, the material that it's made of is rubbery and metallic in shape and has a lot of wood sticks. And it matches some of the descriptions of the debris from Farmer Brazil. But here's where critics will go at this theory. Charles Moore, one of the Project Mogul scientists admitted that he had no direct evidence that flight number four ever actually launched. The flight records for that specific launch are missing. Most of the other mogul flight records were meticulously logged. Some of the early ones were a little bit spotty, but after a certain date, they were all detailed very accurately, but not the one that supposedly

explains the Roswell crash. Now, another interesting detail, the radar reflectors used in Operation Mogul were made with a novelty tape manufactured by a toy company. So the tape was essentially decorated with like designs and, you know, like little flowers and symbols, stuff that like kids would use for like arts and crafts. And skeptics will argue that this explains the alien hieroglyphics that the witnesses like Marcel and others described. Now, believers argue that career intelligence officers wouldn't mistake like toy kids tape decorations for unknown hieroglyphics. But, But again, this contributes to the theory. Then in 1997, the Air Force released another report called the Roswell Report, colon, case closed.

This time addressing the alien bodies question. And their explanation was basically the bodies that witnesses described were actually anthropomorphic test dummies dropped from high altitude balloons as a part of Project Highdive in the 1950s. Whoa. So how do we unpack that? Okay. Basically, you had this Operation Project Highdive that we're using dummy drops. But people will point out that those dummy drops didn't officially begin until 1953.

This is six years after the Roswell incident. Now, the Air Force acknowledged this timeline discrepancy and attributed to compressed memories, basically saying that the witnesses that were on that base might have merged events from different years into a single false memory. So, sure, you witness this weathered balloon thing from Project Mogul. landed in this field. You saw some of the stuff. You thought, okay, UFO. And then years later, you came to the base and you saw these weird dummies and you were like, oh, that must be the bodies. And you said that it happened within a few weeks, but actually it happened over like seven

years. And that explains a discrepancy. So that is more or less the official explanation of that detail. But when you put it all together, it just makes it feel a little weird, right? The official explanation requires you to say, all right, elite military intelligence officers couldn't identify balloon debris. And then they saw some tape for a kid's toy and they thought maybe it was like alien hieroglyphics. And then there was one specific flight lock that really matters in order to confirm that it was an operation. But actually that's the one that they don't really have documented. And then multiple witnesses independently have similar memories about these like bodies that are all like memory compressions from six years earlier. And then the government comes out and

says that it's a saucer. And then they actually say it's a weather balloon. They actually say it's not a regular weather balloon, it's actually a weather balloon a part of an operation. It might be true. It's just a lot. It's just hard to really parse it because there's lies that are covering smaller lies that are kind of covering half-truths when you maybe probably didn't need a lie in the first place. Now, here's what a lot of people miss about the whole Roswell thing, that even if you're a total skeptic, the case fundamentally changed the relationship between the American government and its citizens, specifically on the topic of unidentified aerial phenomena. Now, in my opinion, it's also no mistake that a lot of this came after the 1960s. Because if you think about the 60s in American

history, that is really the moment that the American people completely lost faith in the government. I mean, you have the assassination of JFK, you have the assassination of MLK, you have RFK, you have RFK going down, you got, I mean, Vietnam. So many things all happening in unison, the church committee. There's so many things all happening that basically by the 1970s, the American people don't trust the institutions that are set to govern us at all. So then they start looking back at these old things and they say, hey, remember this little crash that they said was actually just a weather balloon? Let's look back at that. I mean, remember, this happened in 1947. The same year that the CIA was created, that the National Security Act was signed and that the Cold War framework

was officially established. The same infrastructure that was built to manage these nuclear secrets and Soviet threats became the same infrastructure that was managing this whole Roswell UFO information, if you can even call it that. And the connections also do. don't stop there. So Project Blue Book, this is the Air Force's official UFO investigation program that officially ran from 1952 to 1969 was largely created because cases like Roswell kept coming up and it kind of proved that the military needed a way to manage public UFO interest. Because if you think about it from their perspective, one of two things are true. Like, hey, maybe there's some weird stuff happening out there that's coming to Earth and we need to have a story for it. Or, hey, we're

running these military operations and they keep crashing and people think that it's aliens and we need to have a story for it in order to cover our own tracks for our failed missions. Either way, they need to have some type of story. So Project Blue Book investigated over 12,000 sightings and they actually claimed that 701 of them were officially unexplained. Now, in fairness, that's a pretty small percentage, but still 701 singular events are just unexplained by the government. Now, what that means, maybe they're covering up for some type of security failure or their own operation or maybe there's really something going on, but still, we don't have any type of information. And then you have the MJ12 documents. These are allegedly leaked papers

describing a secret committee of 12 government and military leaders established by Truman in 1947 specifically to manage the Roswell Recovery and all future extraterrestrial contact. Now, let me just say again that this is just conspiracy fodder. We don't have actual concrete evidence of this. And the FBI I investigated these documents and basically said that they were bogus and many researchers agree. But other people will point out that the people named in this MJ12, people like Vannevar Bush, James Forrestall, Roscoe Hillencoder are exactly the people that you would expect to be on this type of committee. And they all had documented interest in this UFO subject. I mean, a matter of fact, I actually spoke with Danny Sheehan and had him on the pod. And he talked about MJ12. And he actually mentioned that Dick Cheney, in his opinion, may have been.

been one of the 12 members. Now, if that's true, MJ12 had just acquired a new member, considering that Cheney recently passed away. So, fast forward to 2017. The New York Times reveals the existence of ATIP, aka the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. And this is basically a secret Pentagon project that spent $22 million studying this unidentified aerial phenomenon. And since then, the U.S. government has released verified Navy footage of objects performing maneuvers that no one can really explain the Go Fast video, the Ticktack video, the Gimble video, and now you have congressional hearings that are being held. And a formal UAP task force was already created. And Dave Grush, like I mentioned before, a former intelligence officer

testified under oath before Congress in 2023 that the government possessed non-human craft and biologics. It's a lot. And it all happened very fast. I mean, we went from UFOs or non-s sense and, you know, this whole thing is crazy and this is a weather balloon and you guys are all out to lunch to the Pentagon has a UFO office and we have actual intelligence officers telling our elected officials that the government has aliens in less than like a decade. I mean, if you think about that shift, that's a massive change in how the most powerful people and arguably the most powerful government on Earth talks about this subject and ultimately how many people in our country are thinking about this topic. And every single one of those modern revelations traces a line

in a way back to a ranch in New Mexico when this guy named Mac Brazell found something weird in his pasture in 1947. So where does that leave us on Roswell? If we take away some of the speculation and like some of the crazy stuff and really just stick with what everyone agrees on, something landed on this guy's ranch in 1947

and the military recovered it. I mean, that part is concrete. And they issued a press release and they said it was a flying disc and then within 24 hours, they've retracted it and then changed their official explanation. And then they changed their explanation two more times, in 47 and then 97. And officially, the case file is, you know, kind of incomplete. There's key records that are still missing. And everything beyond that is just kind of interpretation.

You know, maybe it was this mogul balloon program. And the cover up was trying to protect like this Cold War surveillance technology because if they come out and say, hey, we've recovered. one of our own monitoring systems to try to track the Soviets during the Cold War, then, of course, the Soviets would have access to that press release. So they're better off saying, yeah, it's just a regular old weather balloon or, oh, it's a flying saucer, who knows, whatever you guys think. I don't know if they realized how big that story would actually be.

And, you know, it's plausible. Governments lie about classified programs all the time. Now, maybe, possibly, the reason the story keeps changing is because the truth is something that the government decided in 47 that Americans are not ready to hear. Now, I don't know, and maybe that's the point. What I do know is that the Roswell case isn't just about a crash in the desert. It's about trust. It's truly about, in a way, it's kind of like the first moment after World War II

where people within the United States really started to distrust our government. And then all that explodes after the 1960s when there's no more trust in the government at all. And in an era where information is everywhere and public trust is at our lowest, the real legacy of Roswell isn't necessarily the wreckage that's in the desert. It is really the wreckage of public trust that, you know, you can have this thing and the government comes and tells us what it is and everyone unanimously is just like, nah, I kind of doubt it. And that to me is almost as concerning as aliens, that no matter what anyone says, no one believes anything. And I mean, that's maybe a different topic, but it is concerning. Regardless, this has been an abridged history of the infamous Roswell incident of 1947. It's pretty interesting. I mean, to be honest with you, the Roswell thing never fully pushed me over. Like, to be honest, like the New York Times articles and a lot of the footage that came

out of that reporting, I have found to be much more compelling. But I do think it symbolizes something important. That, one, the government, I don't know if they realized that this flying saucer thing was not like a weird little, oh, yeah, we think it's interesting. It was an American populace. It's like, no, if you guys say there's flying saucers, that's the most interesting story of the last 100 years. So why they initially said Flying Saucer when they published it,

maybe it was like a joke? I don't know. To be honest with you, the Project Mogul story, I actually think kind of makes sense. I think like, yeah, you're doing these military operations. They're nearby. Sure, they don't have the exact dating, but a lot of the early dating of that type of operation

was a little spotty, and then they got better as time went on. So it's like, it's not crazy to me. And the fact that this farmer went out there and he was like, yeah, there's sticks and rubber. you know, metal. Like the fact that he wasn't like, you know, there's a giant hole in my yard with this saucer thing I've never seen before. The fact that his explanation of the debris was like a little bit, you know, more casual. To me, it kind of makes me feel like it was this type of secret military operation that went awry. Now, why they covered it up in the way that they did,

I don't know. It feels so weird to me. And it is interesting that it exploded after the 60s. To me, that that is like the most important thread here, that you can see the distrust of America with the government happening in real time based off this event. That it happens and there's like a little dip in distrust, but people kind of like roll with it until the 60s happened. Then distrust goes so low and that's when the story explodes. And I don't know. There's been research on this. There's a book the day after Roswell that alleges that a lot of American military tech came out of this Roswell incident and that they did actually recover of craft. And as a result, we have like silicone chips and all these amazing inventions that went to like these skunk work programs around the country, including Wright Patterson where they've reverse engineered all of it.

I'm this one. I'm not convinced on this one. All right. Again, New York Times one, gimbal video. That I'm like, all right, we got something here. The Roswell one, I just don't know. And the nature of the cover up is just so sloppy. That's where like, that's maybe the most insulting thing is like, hey, sure.

It was a military operation gone sideways. you didn't want to reveal your secrets. I get it. You kind of covered it up. But how stupid do they think we are? This is what I realized with populations in general. Like, let's say you have 100 people. You can be like, all right, you know, half of them are that smart.

Half them are a little smart. You know, there's people in the middle. Like, you kind of have like this bell curve of intelligence. But the thing is, you don't need all of them to be smart in order to, you know, find you out. Let's say 90% of people in this sample are pretty dumb. You only need one smart guy to put all the pieces. together and point to all the right stuff and solve the mystery for everyone else to be like, oh yeah, that makes sense. Like you don't need everyone to be smart. You can have most people

be dumb. And if you just have a few smart dedicated people that are on the case figuring it out, they can put everyone else on and then people are smart enough to be like, oh no, that story actually makes complete sense. And that's the part with the cover of I'm like, they think we're pretty dumb. They thought that no one was ever going to put this together. Like, hey, this whole story is pretty strange. Now, as far as the personal testimonies of people that claim that they flew bodies and stuff like that, I mean, sure, it's interesting. I don't see what the motive they have to lie is, but still, it is just one guy's testimony. It's hard for me to stake my entire philosophy about just, you know, one guy's testimony that he told his wife and then later went to a newspaper.

That is just, it's hard for me to get fully on board with. But I wish there was something more concrete we could hang our hats on. I don't know. Cressos, what do you think? I just think it's cool that every UFO incident in another country, they say, oh, this country is Roswell. So it's got to be either the first or the most popular. Oh, yeah, it just put it on the map in a way where it's like, no, no, no, this is the one. This is like we got something. It just created something in the minds, I think, of the American public. But I don't know.

What do you guys think? Do you feel like Roswell was a true craft retrieval that was completely covered up? Do you think it was this military operation that, you know, they tried to change the story on? And if so, why did they do it? I would love to know your thoughts. If there's anything I missed, please don't hesitate to let me know. Again, I'm a novice in the world of UFOology. But please drop a comment.

Let me know what you think. If there's anything I got wrong, please let me know. The truth never hurt anybody. And I am only interested in trying to get to the bottom of everything that's ever happened. So please correct me on the record. YouTube, Spotify. I read all the comments. So I appreciate any type of any addendums to the episode.

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Peace.