Can't Keep My Mouth Shut - Freud's Madonna / Whore Complex of Women - Let's Discuss

Episode Date: September 20, 2021

"Where such men love they have no desire and where they desire they cannot love." Freud Freud's longstanding theory denotes men both consciously and subconsciously place women into TWO significant categories in their minds; - "The Saint" nurturing, homely, chaste, safe, mother-type, marriage material aka Madonna - "The Sinner" sexually pleasing, seductive, degraded, promiscuous figure aka Whore Let's discuss, shall we? 

This podcast contains strong language and discussions about relationships, sex and love. It may not be suitable for younger listeners. This is the Sex in Singapore City podcast and I am Nick Salina. Hello everyone, it's Nick Salina here and I'm back with another episode of my podcast. Tonight, we're going to get a little deep. No, not balls deep, like I always say. I mean, psychologically deep. This episode is thus. Freud's Madonna-whore complex of women. Let's discuss. okay let me begin at the beginning in case you don't know Sigmund Freud is pretty much like the founder of psychoanalysis okay and he's best known for like his neuro theories around the

unconscious mind around sexuality your subconscious in fact I'm pretty sure he alone coined the term ego so every time we talk about our ego without Freud we wouldn't have that word I'm hedging my bets there there might have been someone else that come up with ego but we know it's Freud okay so when he discusses a complex called the madonna whore complex the madonna whore syndrome what he's basically arguing here is that oh this is really this really is a deep one guys so fucking bear with me all right I'm going to try and make it as light as I can but it is important to discuss this so what he's saying is there are polarized perceptions of women as either good and chaste or bad and promiscuous. The Madonna or the whore. And it's a complex, I guess it's,

I'm going to say male work with me here. I know we're in gender fluid 21st century times, but this is back when Freud was alive. So in the male mind, there's a split between affectionate and sexual currents in in the male psyche and desire of a woman annoyingly for us females what it does is it puts us into two different boxes right and it's very very neat and tidy here can we just say oh well you can be in that box or that box done like okay bro I mean, Freud, I got you, but I've got some questions. So what he's saying is the Madonnas are the pure, the nurturing, the asexual, the respected and the loved. And then you've got those whores.

They are tainted, depraved, sexual and desired. let's just take a moment shall we i mean let's just have a moment with this so basically just to put it simply you've got saints madonnas or you've got prostitutes you've got the madonna the mothering nurturing loving wife type then you've got the whore Naughty, dirty, filthy, promiscuous, sexual, deviant, dark And you cannot mix both This is what he's saying He's saying in the man's mind

There is those two categories of women And you cannot cross To sum up in this whole theory in one sentence Freud states where such men love they have no desire and where they desire they cannot love okay Freud I have a fucking problem with this right because let me tell you even though this was back in the 1900s this is still a problem today my friends you as a female you're still in a fucking box

you are either the loving woman that he wants to marry but he's still checking out that sexy short skirt like oh i want to bend her over a table and fuck a type girl but you don't want to marry her he wants to marry you the soft sweet loving one who tends to his every whim it feels like you can't be wife material and be someone who's a fucking freak in the bed and gets him stiff within like a minute i have a huge problem with this firstly for my whole life my whole fucking life i have been put in the whore box that's going to be a quote on instagram i have never been the madonna ever in polar opposites i'll use my sister she's the madonna she's virtuous loving like she's only been with one

man her whole life she's an angel she really is just the best human i think i've ever met and i am the complete opposite to her i have always always always been viewed by men as a sexual object even when I don't fucking want it and I remember back in uni I got so pissed off I remember just when I got drunk at the uni bar because I'd had like back to back week upon week upon week month on month of guys trying to sleep with me trying it on with me who very knowingly had girlfriends and I was like why do you think I'm the kind of woman to to disrespect other women that I would even fucking do that and it was like I was so desperate to be loved at that point and I was like I'm never I'm never going to be in a relationship I'm the girl that guys fuck

and then go home to their missus right and someone when I was lamenting about this at the time someone described this to me I'll never forget it and it was actually one of the boys the ones that was trying it on like okay he when I said no it was very chill after that it was like back to being friends or whatever but he was like look a Ferrari as a car guys fucking want a Ferrari proper sexy red Ferrari they want to drive it really fast in the streets like look at me and my Ferrari isn't it fucking awesome but no one drives a Ferrari every day no one puts a Ferrari in the garage, you know, and then goes in home. Ferraris are like the lavish excitement, like statement piece. But for every day, you want like a four by four. You want a standard drive-about

car, one that's comfortable, one that's reliable. That doesn't make you not want the Ferrari. Just the Ferrari isn't an everyday thing. You're the Ferrari, Nix. That's what he said to me. I'm pretty sure that's the day I took up smoking. so you see without even knowing about this syndrome back then I'd already been living it I was still living it 21st century madonna whore syndrome still a big big thing and that's what he was basically saying is you're the one we want to fuck you're the one that's sexy you like even just when you're trying to be friendly you're flirty even when you try and dress dowdy you're sexy and I've always said that I'm not tooting my own horn because honestly it's a fucking

pain in the ass but I try and not be sexy and it doesn't seem to I just can't do it I can't be that really fashionable chill cool girl next door and that's all really I've ever wanted is to like get that vibe I can't I really can't and I guess what happened is I put myself in that whore box because when I've been treated that way for ages it's just like okay well that is me now don't get me wrong I'd had boyfriends but I don't think they ever really really took me at like seriously as someone I'd settle down with I really don't I think I was that incredible like sexual hot girlfriend that make them look good and feel good but I was never on any of their long-term plans to wife up. I really, really wasn't. And I kind of get it because it goes back to Freud's

longstanding theory. Men consciously, they consciously and subconsciously, by the way, and sometimes they don't know it's subconscious, but it is, and it's very, sometimes very overt. They put women into these two categories. There is the nurturing mother type, and then there's a sexually pleasing promiscuous one. That's the Madonna and the whore. So coinciding with this theory is, in my opinion, unfounded concept that states that being both sexually arousing and in a very loving, long-term, caring, nurturing relationship are actually two mutually exclusive ideals. And you can't have both. And thus, in my opinion, this presents very, very difficult issues that women have faced throughout the ages. And as I've depicted,

we're still facing. Are we, as females, the nurturing, borderline mothering, kind, sweet at-home girlfriend? Or are we the sexually attractive, freak-in-bed, sexually open, promiscuous, whore-type woman? More to the point, how the fuck do we be both? Because if a dude in the 1900s has said it's one or the other, how the hell are we going to transcend that? And I'm not shitting on Freud. He's the big guy. He knows his shit. There are some controversy to some of the you know the other the things he talks about his neuro theories and i get that but honestly he was bang on the money with this one because it's still happening 100 200 years later only this time it's explained to me with ferraris dude i get it thanks for the

explanation i think what i try and reason with this as well is guys seem to think that women aren't wife material if she is sexual promiscuous if she does put a sexuality out there it's like she becomes tainted or impure dirty and thus unworthy of wife status he may possess very passionate sexual feelings towards this chick but she ain't wife material she's like a fucking guy material perhaps just date her and fuck her and show off but no no no not settle down not have kids no no no no he's gonna look for the good girl to marry this woman you know is the this like sweet less overtly sexy woman maybe the sex will be more i don't know chilled calm less exciting dare i say boring with her but she's the wife she's the mother of the children she's a long-termer

This is the crux of the theory. Now, I just want to argue my fucking case here that we women can be both. Say that louder for the dead Freud at the back, Sigmund Freud. You were on the money, but let me tell you, my friend, we can be both. we women are able in this fucking day and age to be a sexual being to love ourselves sexually to put our sexual fantasies out there to know that we love sex to know that we can be pretty and promiscuous and yet we can also be the one at home cooking dinners looking after the children We can have the ring on our finger and be called wife.

We can take your surname and still be a freak in bed. We do not deserve to be split into these two categories. Am I right? I can't fathom why this still happens because if we're really going down this route, and we are, for me it feels like men still can be overtly sexual. they can be promiscuous they they're the fucking legend they're the man if they sleep around if they have loads of women after them like yeah fuck yeah i shagged this i shagged that right if we women have anything even near similar the same lifestyle we're sluts we're whores

we're dirt birds we're slags we are slut shamed for enjoying sex as a single girl single guys they're the fucking man oi oi fucked her last week got a different bed oh my god on tinder i got three different dates in one night hey fuck off honestly it's it's still so prevalent now and it drives me nuts like my instagram as a prime example i would do often lots of lingerie photo shoots. Do you know why? Because I was really proud of my body. I'm like 30 something. I done loads of photo shoots where I was like, hey, like, shit, this is how I look. I'm 31. I'm 32. I was damn proud. Why shouldn't I be able to say this is me? This is who I am. I am confident woman. I'm strong. I am sexy. But I'm also intelligent. But I'm also the founder of my

own company, but I'm also going to be the best girlfriend you've ever had. Why can't I do that? No, no. As soon as these images go up, it's like wank bank material. I'm being sent dick pics from strangers I don't want. You know, I'm being sexualized as like a one dimensional creature. Oh, she's here to be like spunked all over. No, I'm not. And I am so over this connotation that we can't be both the Madonna and the whore? Why can't we be proud of our bodies, be open with our bodies, be very expressive and honest with our sexual appetites, and yet still be nurturing, loving, loyal, and wife material at home?

Thankfully, I have met a man who can see that I bridged the gap and I think I mean obviously it's taken to 34 years old but here we are I think many of my boyfriends in the past started off dating me because they put me in the whore box and then realized oh shit she's actually really nice um she's actually really loving like she tends to my every need which I do if I love you and you're my partner like you get you get everything I used to wait on all of them hand and foot I really did to my own detriment mind you and I just don't think they ever expected it and kind of was like wow like you are actually a better partner than I ever thought it would be because they put me in the whore box and then they got a Madonna at home

and I didn't know how to handle it I didn't know what to do with it and I just think I'm not alone like most women I know are both really we're we're both and I want finally god I want everyone to bin those boxes to understand that the Madonna is not the whore and the whore is not the Madonna and women are not the Madonna not the whore in fact we are both Madonna and the whore and that's Just us as a woman expressing our sexual nature, enjoying ourselves, be open with our bodies. We are women that are multifaceted. We can do it all. We can give birth to your children.

We can marry you and take your surname. But we can also look like fire in a short dress. And we can suck your dick until you spunk over our face. Whatever it is that turns you on. but then we can still cook you a nice dinner and you know go shopping with you at the weekend why why are you trying to put us in a box dudes let me just tell you if you keep us separate you're losing out if you're choosing a madonna or a whore and you're saying oh god she's a whore i only see her once or twice you're fucking losing out on a full package let me tell your friend

if you stop splitting us up and accept the woman is both of these and we can do it all you are getting a full package and who doesn't want that so to sum up i mean i know i've ranted a lot tonight i'm not dissing freud god love you r.i.p dude you're a fantastic man who's extremely intelligent way way beyond your years and just wow like pioneered so much for us and did so much for psychoanalysis and mental health and really exploring the mind. And, yes, he was bang on the money with his Madonna horse syndrome. He really was. And it's sad to say he was right.

But what I want to say to Freud and to the guys out there today and the girls listening is let's not split us up anymore And let's combine the Madonna and the whore and drop the names completely, drop those labels and just refer to us as a woman. listen to on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google and all major podcast listening apps. Do subscribe to enjoy a new episode every Monday evening. Please do give me a five star review. It helps other people also find my podcast. For more awesome content and features to read, you can check out my website, sexandsingaporecity.com. That's sexandsingaporecity.com. I'm also on social media simply search at nixalina n-i-x-a-l-i-n-a to find me don't be shy come say hi