Can't Keep My Mouth Shut - Life Behind The Media - with S&SC and Hanli Hoefer

Episode Date: July 20, 2020

Hanli Hoefer - a Singapore based model, actress, host, presenter and podcaster, has lived a life fully exposed in the media spotlight. She embodies the idea of 'girlboss' and has inspired so many with her strong ethics, self confidence and career success. Aside from the glossy magazine pages, acting showreels and live presenting work (including MTV Asia), I sit down with Hanli to discuss what life really is like behind the lens. We talk 'Toxic Positivity' and victims of the 'gram, pressures of presenting, lockdown life without bras, female empowerment in the workplace and... …McDonald's curry sauce.

This podcast contains strong language and discussions about relationships and sex. It may not be suitable for younger listeners. This is the Sex in Singapore City podcast and I'm Nixalina Watson. Hello, everyone. Welcome back to Nixalina's podcast here in Splice Studios. This is the first time I've been here since COVID hit so yeah it's been months and months and I'm very very happy. So shout out to Ken for having me back, thank you. I'm also extra happy because this is my first ever episode where I have a special guest talking to me. Paul Foster darling, you're not the special guest, you know, you're part of the furniture. So today I am bringing on an awesome

woman. She's complete content creator, badass, girl boss. She's a model, an actress, a host, a presenter. And if you don't know about her yet, you soon will do. And her name is Hanley Hofer. Hello, hello. Hey, did I pronounce that right? Hanley Hofer. You did. You got it there. You got it there. Welcome, darling. Thank you so much for having me.

Thank you for joining us here. So I kind of summed you up in like a very short bullet point, which did not do you justice. So I think you should take the mic and just, you know, anyone who's not heard of you before, give them a little spiel. Yeah, spiel. I love that word. Yeah. So hi, everybody. My name's Henley. I don't know where to start. There's so many bullet points. So a lot of you may recognize my voice or me from MTV Asia. I have been the presenter there, the VJ for more or less the past seven years, but outside of that I'm also an actress I have been a model for like the last decade I am a podcast producer as well so hey podcast medium love this um I host one with my buddy called

Marissa and the podcast is called Just So We're Clear and yeah I guess that kind of covers a lot of content on a lot of platforms a lot of times it really does it's like nothing left untouched without a little Hanley. I love that. I wanted to say before we continue that this episode is basically lightly formulated around the idea of life behind the media. Obviously, we're both in the media spotlight, me nowhere near as much as Hanley. But yeah, I want to focus on all of the kind of the social media, the content creation, all that kind of jazz where your life is in the lens and kind of how it dictates your personal life, how you kind of thrive and carry on and if there's any ups and downs and all that jazz.

So I think let's start with the modeling. Okay. You've had a crazy modeling career. You've graced front covers, likes of Nylon, Her World, Shape, and you looked banging by the way. Oh, thank you. You did Her World twice, right? Yeah, I did Her World last year and it was a September cover.

And the first time I graced the cover of Her World, fun story. Actually, it was my first photo shoot ever. Oh, my God. Yeah. So coming back nine years later and coming on the cover again, it was, yeah, it was a lovely little moment for me, I have to say. Talk about pressure. So your first ever photo shoot ever or just ever for Her World was the front cover one. I joined an agency and within like a few weeks of just signing, they were like, OK, you have a photo shoot tomorrow, like this weekend.

It's with Her World. And I was like, what? what is the what is life right now but yeah it was my first I guess professional photo shoot as a model as a signed model yeah that's crazy right because front covers are quite the accolade in the modeling world and that you usually do a lot of work and photo shoots before you kind of get to that level so how did you cope with that kind of pressure for your first shoot honestly I I was so I think I was so young I didn't have the mindfulness to kind of pause when these things happened to be like, oh my God, I'm so grateful. I immediately just sort of got swept up into the

industry and it happened so quickly. It was so fast paced after that. So at the time I was still very shy. So I was just in awe that it was happening. But the reflection part of what that really meant truly came later when I looked at it backwards, if that makes sense. You know, when you're young and something happens, you're like, this is cool. But you're never really like, I don't know, you don't have the maturity to find meaning in it just yet. Now, unfortunately, hindsight's a wonderful thing. With these kind of modeling shoots, is there like an enormous amount of pressure on how you look and hold yourself or being a certain size? I mean, what was that like?

Yeah, well, back then and when I started modeling, naturally, my body back then was quite thin. So the pressure was just to sort of maintain and be professional. but body pressure and everything that comes with being a model that that I feel like that develops as your career goes on right because you need to sort of stick to what an industry standard is and I know a lot of girls and guys that struggle as their career continues because you know when you start modeling you're quite young but let's be real like we're women like our 20 year old body is not going to be our 28 year old body. No way. My 33 year old body. It's so sad. It's not going to be what it was. So unfortunately, you know, you have a lot of individuals in this industry

who start like that. And then as they just grow and develop, like just be normal, that's when the pressures really come in. And I can honestly say I've had firsthand experiences with my self-image and my self-worth, sort of comparing my own self to who I was back then. So I wouldn't say that the pressure truly comes from outside. It comes really from within. That is a very good point, I think we should definitely flesh that out. When you look back at these photos, which of course, you know, are everywhere and it's content and it's Google and, you know, in printed magazines, as you age, do you start to feel, like you said, the pressure and you're like, oh I don't look like that anymore yeah absolutely and it was interesting because back then you're

starting out you're so young you're you know come on we all had those phases when our metabolism was ideal and we could eat a tub of ice cream and the next morning it was like what ice cream but that's not healthy and I as I started growing up and I started becoming more interested in nutrition and health and sports and exercise my body took on a healthier shape right that wasn't necessarily match to that you know skinny size zero modeling shape at the beginning so it was a balance between understanding like okay but I'm being healthy and like 360 and holistic and yet I'm not matching what is considered the ideal so yeah I definitely have gone in and out of these types of thoughts and when you get I should say if you've ever get rejected for certain photo

shoots do you take that very personally like rather than okay I just wasn't the right look do you feel, oh, I'm, you know, I'm not pretty enough or I don't look a certain way? And has that become any kind of negative thought process? Oh, hell no. You know, if they don't, if they didn't choose me, I don't take it personally because I've also come to like a pretty ground understanding that ultimately when you are working as a model, you're working sort of to fit their product. So if they don't like your look, that's because you didn't fit their brand and that's nothing to do with you and uh so yeah I like they know what I look like if they didn't like me onto the next one is exactly how I used to feel when I dated men I was I was never sad or sour

I did not egg their houses fuck you I never fancied you anyway okay so with regards obviously as your career has developed and modeling is a tiny portion of it and we move on to like the acting and presenting role do you find any more or less pressure with that versus modeling for a photo for a still when I moved out of modeling and more into a hosting space with MTV that's when I really started to feel my confidence because when you're modeling you're right you're being a still but when you're presenting much like you're doing right now with the hosting you know you have to have a personality you got to have some wit can I just say we're

Because of COVID, we cannot see each other, right? But I see this hand. I can see her gesture, the hand. There's a little hand coming out on the side. Yeah, no. You guys don't even understand. This is so bizarre because of social distancing, right? We are in cubicles.

We're not actually looking at each other. No, and it's really weird. It is really weird. And I'm throwing all sorts of like sassy movements towards a foam wall. I always just want to go on your Instagram just to have a look at your face. Like, hey, babe. yeah so just as I'm doing now yeah so no one can see my my hosting or presenting skills but you have to have like you know a personality a certain like pizzazz about you to present just

as you do with your podcast my confidence really came out when I started to present because I started to find that value and worth kind of expanded beyond a look yeah and yeah just because you're more than just a still. Exactly. You're a voice. You're, you know, you're funny. You're everything that the show needs. So it really kind of gave me my confidence. So the pressure, pressure really came again internally. It was never an outside thing. I was so fortunate to be in such a workspace that everyone was just so great. We really became such good friends. But yeah, pressure was always in my head to just perform and be on point and still look good. was presenting live so you're obviously your acting was pre-recorded did you do any live

presenting yes yeah I did lots of live presenting because that is pressure yeah yeah if you fuck up what is live you got you got like a small window to save yourself and then you get panicky and then yeah and people can tell the reason I say this is because and I'm not stealing the spotlight from Hanley in any shape perform but when I landed my ISO date role oh yes yeah I this is the first proper presenting job I've had right and they confirmed me on the same day we went live so I got the script at like two in the afternoon and then my first show was at 6 p.m. you were what okay I okay so I watched that show I watched that first episode and you were so good I would not have recognized like I

would not have known that damn girl yeah I was also so drunk and I said when they confirmed me I was at work I was in my full-time job so I was like I haven't got time to read the script because I had to focus on my full-time job I had to make sure I could get home and get dressed and look ready for six because I wasn't dressed because I basically assumed I kind of hadn't got the gig but it was as per always immediate was all sort of last minute it wasn't it wasn't an issue by any stretch and if them if you're listening i love you to death for me that was a huge confidence booster because i'd never done live before i was going live on youtube and you know coconuts tv's it's a big media channel and these guys trusted me that i wouldn't fuck it up i was like okay i

don't know i had the script on one side and then obviously i'm working with deities so i've also never met so i don't know whether they're going to be fun or boring or quiet or chatty damn that's stressful yeah I've got a bottle of Prosecco yeah and I can't get through this without drinking because you gotta be on like people like it's it's a performance you really have to be on and aware and mindful okay it is and that's another thing actually is I don't think people understand it's actually like quite exhausting oh yes like even when I get ready for my podcast I have to like build myself up and then it kind of yeah it's like an adrenaline high and then a bit of a dump afterwards yeah absolutely presenting and hosting it's it like it's a type of performance so yes I

completely understand people don't realize how exhausting it can be and the pressure with live especially I because I find um maybe I did one or two words wrong in one of my shows and then I can see on my face I'm like oh my god I'm trying to recover but then no one else noticed and this is when you keep talking about the pressure is actually in yourself when I did my first show I was like I was so happy so over the moon and best night celebrating and then the following week I would not watch it back because I started watching it back I was it's terrible get it off the tv it's terrible I can't watch it yeah and I just picked holes in it oh god I have a really hard time with watching myself back you would have thought you know I've been doing this

for so long but still I'm so self-critical that if I watch like a clip of myself hosting I cringe like I internally just curl up and just why did and why do people hire me I get so awkward watching myself I'm just picking myself like oh my god I look really weird when I talk or like why am I saying that why are my hands not down why are my hands everywhere and I just and I wasn't looking at the right place in the camera but it was fine this was just my interpretation 100% yeah the pressure really comes from within it sucks it's weird because how would you like you know if anyone's listening that wants to get into the kind of media biz industry, how would you get someone to say, okay, this is the pressure from within, but how do you get over that? When does

that go away? It truly is practice. And I think pressure is a good thing. I think that, you know, pressure like creates us to perform better and to work harder. So I don't think we should dismiss it. One of the pieces of advice I got from a past producer, he told me to anticipate the nerves, anticipate the pressure kind of mindfully walk yourself through everything that you could feel right so that as it happens at least it doesn't blindside you you know if you're suddenly having starting to feel stressful you kind of just tell yourself oh I knew this was going to happen and that helps for me right ultimately it is practice so whoever wants to get into presenting public speaking just I don't know go to a park and speak just speak publicly that's really good

like yeah just video yourself yeah i get panicky about swearing i swear all the time even like for my first iso day i was like is this swearing they're like well you kind of need to stay a bit neutral and i was like okay i can fucking do that and then a couple of seconds in i was like oh shit i can't swear yeah i'm terrible to be fair my podcast like my producer was like so is it explicit and i'm like yeah yes it is because i can't go for an episode without swearing it's just who I am. Talking of podcasting, before we move on to a bit more deeper, meaningful section, I just want you to talk about your podcast as we've covered modeling, acting and hosting. When did you set up your podcast?

Our podcast is four months old. We started it right before we went into the circuit breaker, which was kind of perfect for us. So my podcast is called Just So We're Clear. kind of the idea around it is that Marissa and I we're just curious people and just like every podcaster we we find ourselves speaking to each other and we're like damn we're kind of funny we should start a podcast did you have that I've always thought I was a fucking hilarious and then I had started podcasts and then I'll listen to it back I'm like oh just die already like what are you talking about yeah but that's truly it like we'd catch ourselves having these like conversations and be like I actually think people would like to hear this and that's that's

the truth of how it started and we just wrapped up um season one on 26 episodes yeah what we consider is kind of like our testing the water season to kind of get our flow going knowing what what takes and and what topics that we are comfortable talking about and now we yeah I think we like we got it so we're gonna start season two soon that's a big obstacle to overcome in that you just start a podcast and then COVID hits. Like for content creating in your world, is it part of you just went, oh, sod it, like let's not bother? Oh, yeah.

Hats off to you, girl, for being a solo podcaster because it is hard. Discipline and consistency is, damn, is overlooked with these things. So it really did help for our case to have a duo to hold each other accountable. So when one person was like, oh, I can't be fucked, the other one's like, yes, you can. And you're like, okay.

When everything shut down, we instantly bought a couple of mics and figured out a way to record from home. Perfect. And because I'm not fully able to work from home because I'm normally in and off of projects and sets, so thank God I had the podcast to keep my creative juices occupied or else I honestly would have gone insane. And that's why we were doing two episodes a week during lockdown.

We all got on the edge, on the cliffhanger of going fucking mental. And I was doing the Circuit Breaker alone. I was like, well, I'm speaking to myself all day. I might as well be also doing it to a podcast. Like, this makes sense. I actually stopped doing my podcast for a bit during lockdown. I'm very much like anti-feeling like I have to. If I feel like I have to create something, I don't create it as well.

So, like, I used to stick to, like, with blogging. I need to do two or three a week. And then I would be like, right, I've got to blog about something. And it just felt forced. so during circuit break because my full-time job was so busy I was like actually I'm just gonna allow myself some time to not do podcasts and then laziness and all that jazz hit and then when I got back on it I was like sorry I'm actually gonna work out how I can do this from home I really really missed doing it and I was like oh damn why did I just waste like two months

of not putting some stuff out and then the motivation as well is I'd have I started having people messaged me like hey where's your podcast gone and then when you get that feedback or someone was like oh well can you please cover this topic or cover that topic then that kind of spurred me on to carry on yeah also like we we trust the pandemic like there was no normal so no you know what I just don't have the juju to do that I'm not going to good for you from for being able to make those decisions instead of like pressuring yourself to keep going because we were going through a lot yeah yeah and I think that's probably actually I mean really good to highlight is that in in that media creative bubble everyone feels pressure to create content all the time content content

content actually if it's becoming like such a negative adversity not that my podcast was but if you get there with anything whether it's YouTube or job hunting or acting or whatever then give yourself that space to say actually nah not today 100% you should be having fun with these things you should be having fun when you create so when it becomes a bit naggy yeah you're right have you ever had like a project where you just lost all the love for it I mean you don't I'm not saying you have to name I mean have you ever got there where you're like I just don't do this anymore oh yeah absolutely I've had that experience before on one of my acting roles where I really just lost a lot of heart for my character and was you signed into a contract

yeah right so you had you could there was no out there was no out I just had to act through it which is well yeah I was able to because you know that was in front of the camera but it's hard it's hard as a creative to feel like you're being forced yes agreed it actually takes out all the creative absolutely yeah and I find that my work is never like if I write a blog that I'm really passionate about it just flows I can do it in like an hour but if like you say to me okay you got to write about this topic yeah and after you have to do something you don't like you're drained your energy's out whereas if you just writ like for your case wrote a blog or like a podcast and you loved it you come out of that and your energy's recharged yes right yeah you're like I

want to do 10,000 more 50 podcast episodes can do an all-nighter in the studio Ken's like not in a million years I don't even need to see his face to see his expression sometimes I come out the pod when I and he's like did that really happen I'm like yes yes it did I'm going in from when it's all true I don't lie about anything okay Hanley I want to talk to you a little bit more now about more meaningful side of all this let's really get down to the nitty-gritty when life in the media and life behind the lens do you think that there's an aspect of it that potentially damages or has a negative effect on your private and personal life yeah you know when you preempted me with this question I spent a lot of time thinking about

it because negativity can be heard and used quite strongly and I don't want to make it seem like well the downside of it is so negative because I've been quite fortunate that I haven't had those experiences. Touch wood, like smacking wood. But it's interesting because I think that when you have an online life, I think that it's quite easy for people to forget that that's not your life. That is a small percent of your life. When you're posting stories and that's like a 1% of your day, that's what you choose to share. And I think that there have been moments in my life where I feel like people who I know or acquaintances or friends get a bit distracted by what they see online that they forget that that's not the whole picture.

Does that make sense? Absolutely. Do you think they kind of formulate an idea about you off of the highlights? 100%. 100%. But the thing is, I understand how this can happen. Yeah. And I think to an extent, all of us in this weird modern world, we're all victims of the gram. I keep saying this because it's a thing. Oh my God. I love that. We're victims of the gram and even down to personal relationships. They see you and you're fine on your stories, right? So what's going on? They don't think that maybe it's not the big picture. That has happened before, but I try to learn from that on my social media. I choose to highlight important topics to me and talk about real things. I love touching on mental health because that's something that

I'm passionate about I'm very open about body image and honesty around these things yeah so I just try to use my platform to bring up these real topics to just bring some real to the gram so that people are less likely to fall victim to it yeah same back in 2014 when I was in London with my blog I won my first ever blog award with Cosmo Mag so I was like voted a UK top blogger right? So it's the best day of my life. Okay. So I got everything I've worked towards. I am now an award winning blogger. I'm best in country. And then off the back of that, I then got offered another journalist gig as a vlogger. And then I got offered to cover MTV EMAs on the red carpet. I had a meltdown. If you said to me, you know, why, well, what's going on? I couldn't pinpoint

anything. I just had like a physical and mental meltdown. And I didn't realize it was a thing until I spoke to a fair few people in the years to come that like when you reach I guess your success or you reach your goal there's an element of what now like now I've got the award so now what now what do I do and it's like really affects you wow from that day I was really moving on how I reframe social media because if you go we went on my Instagram I'm holding my blog award I'm doing this I'm doing that someone's making my dress to cover the red carpet and this and that and you think I'm having the best time I'm like at home I'm breathing into a paper bag kind of thing you know yes so I always say like social media is your highlights your highlights of your life

when you everyone's looking everyone else like that is just that is the highlight that's the one thing they want to be portraying but always make sure that you realize that there's a person behind it and this isn't just for like media people like us I mean everyone does this everyone portrays the best version of themselves 100 it doesn't mean that they're okay exactly that is that's the highlighter reel of our life you're not gonna see me in the corner having a breakdown I'm not gonna post that but it but it happens yeah it's so true I do try and do the same I try and keep mine real like I see a lot of people constantly trying to be motivated like you should do this you should do that every day like have you done this yet have you done that and I'm like

god that's so exhausting yeah and fake yes you can't be that on all day I think it's very dangerous to always keep telling people oh you must be inspirational you must be motivated you must be doing this like it's that's not achievable yeah that's not human no that's not human like to be constantly on it's fucking psycho yeah it is like take a fucking day off and that's how I know it's fake like if I see someone's Instagram and they're writing down their daily motivation on how to live a better life bullshit I'm like okay cool but if they write that every day and it's a different angle like oh this is how you do this this is how you do that oh you must always do this I think like now it's not inspirational it's actually the opposite yeah now you're just

kind of annoying yeah yeah like fuck off my screen yeah yeah I'm so glad we're on the same page absolutely yeah because you know I mean this is something I'm kind of hoping for in terms of like our content creation space that after this 2020 is over yeah everything that has been highlighted has been the importance of mental health right like that yeah that's come up it's a bit late I mean the conversation in this side of the world is nowhere near developed as where it needs to be so I hope that we all realize collectively that yes mental health is fucking important and tuning into toxic positivity online is just fucking detrimental oh what a good toxic positivity I fucking love you already

That is just summarized in two words Exactly It is, it's toxic positivity It's not real So let's, you know, I hope people remember this And instead of these conversations and these people posting Like, you should do this, you should do that Yeah, this is bad food, that is good food

I'm going to read five books in one hour No, that's fuck off Can you just start posting stuff of being like Remember to just be human and be okay Those are the messages we need no exactly I'm like if I watch you doing 25 billion workouts a day and then you eat the slice of apple for lunch and then you read 20 things and I don't feel inspired I feel exhausted and then inferior exactly and I never want anyone to look at my content and feel like oh I don't do

enough with my life I never want that that is the opposite I think if you want to be positive be genuinely positive and be positive and negative in that when I'm sad I'll be like I have maybe I don't post for a week and when I do I'm like you know what like I'm not happy yeah this this is like a fake smile I think I did one recently and I said this is a fake smile I'm not okay but taking every day as it comes whatever oh that's so like I love that though and people are receptive to that. So I've started therapy, which is like, love it. But I shared about it on Instagram. And I did this like a little story series where I was sharing with my followers that I am joined therapy. And I wanted them to understand that you can look at a page and see,

oh, very bright colors, pretty yoga pants, but this person needs help and is not afraid to ask for it. Yeah. So let's bring some realness back to the ground, girl. I'm so here for therapy. oh we love that I love my therapist I never want to lose her I'm like making my partner come to therapy as well with me I'm like men need to embrace a bit more therapy in my eyes oh my god my my eyelids just like peeled back like I wish I could say yes we're having this connected therapy chat which I didn't even know was gonna come and I can't even see you for it I'm looking at a foam wall I know I feel like I'm in confession or something like just like in a booth just baring my soul or a padded cell in an asylum that's where I am

do you feel and this is something I want to talk about as well that riding off media and social media do you feel pressured to like put out x amount of content a day like I have to put one post on Instagram a day I have to do two podcasts a week I have to do this amount of OOTDs do you feel any time, like one, do you feel compelled to live that life? And two, do you start to resent it on any level? Um, personally, no, because I am quite an expressive person. This is why I've gone down all the routes I have, you know, acting, presenting, I've, I've got a lot of outward energy. So for me, it actually helps. I enjoy sharing about myself and I enjoy being able to rant on my podcast it actually helps me as a creative kind of channel all this extra like

i don't know what was that that was me going crazy um so personally no i don't i don't really feel the pressure because i i i enjoy it right yeah that's cool me definitely definitely don't feel the pressure at all i just sometimes i'm like oh I can't be honest to fucking put clothes on, right? Or makeup or just take a photo. I don't care. Oh, no, I'm done with makeup. I've now taken to posting no makeup selfies.

I'm like, I'm sort of over it. Good on you. Good on you. I feel like we've all embraced that though in COVID. We've all forgotten what bras feel like. Oh, I'm not. Yeah. Sorry.

Too much. No, I'm not wearing one. I gave up. I gave up on bras. I'm not wearing any knickers. I gave up on mascara, got my eyelashes curled. I'm like, I'm never wearing mascara again. Like, I fully have embraced just a very natural side.

Yeah, COVID has brought that out in all of us. Yeah. When I put a bra on now, I'm like, ugh, life. Yeah. It's uncomfortable. They suck. Fuck that bullshit. Yeah, and you know, they're not great for you.

No. Yeah, they make your tits saggier. Do you know that? Yeah. Yeah, especially the wired ones. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. and that is another episode the saggy tits bra oh please talk about it yeah do you uh Ali do you feel like you're a different person on and off screen slash on and off the mic

with the podcast or are you just you the whole way through I think I'm pretty myself I mean obviously there's still an element of presenting and hosting and with that comes a certain energy you know it you know so you still need to be on and I say that in inverted commas on but I don't feel like I stray away from who I am when there's nothing on me right now the best thing I think and I'm sure you feel this too but when people that know you listen to your work and they're like I feel like I'm just hanging out with you yes you're like yes that's the point it's meant to be just like just a connection and not a you know yeah a screen or exactly how I want it to be like and there's no airs and graces it's as if we're having a coffee or a cocktail yeah

yeah and it's the same advice yeah same reaction and also when people who only know you from your Instagram or whatever media and then they meet you in person and they're like oh you're just like you know they see the connect of your consistency yeah like that to me is a compliment in fact one of the best compliments is like oh you're better in person oh yeah yes fuck yeah and I'm awesome on it now I like people message me and throughout the whole of my blog career and said when they read my work they can hear my voice that I love I'm like oh okay I nailed the writing and that's why you are an award-winning blogger talking about sex okay well blogger aside how do you about the word influencer yes the plot thickens what a word yeah it's kind of lost its meaning

in these days don't you think yeah yeah back then I think people who are influential would be I don't know the greats you look at like yeah you know people who have a legacy I think that's also a word that's been disconnected from influence like what what are you leaving behind that made you influential and and I think that yeah it's gotten totally lost but it's diluted with everyone trying to be an influencer right so the dilution has taken away all meaning and value to the word absolutely yeah I think that I mean this is a personal opinion but with a platform there is a certain responsibility to have integrity behind it and that is influence as opposed to keeping it shallow and keeping it fake and and keeping it contoured you know um so I don't know I'm

definitely on the side of influence has lost its meaning but I'm also on the team let's bring it back you know let's bring back what that actually means yes in a very real sense because this is my problem is there's like it feels like anyone can become an influencer these days without influencing like when I started blogging you had to have a blog and you had to write like I I'm a trained writer I didn't wake up one day and be like oh I reckon I can write you know like I had to got a degree I had to work at it and then this is how old I sound by the way is when I was blogging like influencers and Instagram wasn't a thing oh back in my day we used to play snakes on the phone but like then when it come a thing like then everyone was like oh I'm a blogger I'm

a blogger and blogging but they'll be like oh what's your blog and they didn't really have one And I'm like, oh, it's my Instagram handle. I'm like, but then you're not a blogger. Oh, you must have gone through the feelings to have. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, when the influencer industry came up, I was already presenting, but I remember it wasn't even a thing. But it also affected my industry because then what happened was that clients would start picking girls based on their numbers versus their actual ability to present.

Yes. And then suddenly I was losing jobs to girls who had thousands of followers. You're really great at filtering and your Meitu skills and Facetune skills are on point, sweetie. But you're taking my jobs in something that I actually trained for. Yes. And that's where I got a bit about the whole industry. I literally feel like you're my spirit animal when you came in. I've been the exact same.

And I'm like, the people are getting like, oh, here's my column in a magazine. I'm like, call them, you can't write. How is this even happening? I'm like, you know, and they're like, oh, you're actually a really good writer. I did three years at a uni to get an English lit degree to learn how to write. And that was really annoying. Sometimes I'd go on people, like, I'm a blogger. And they would be everywhere.

They would be at every fashion show at London Fashion Week. They'll be sitting in front row and you go on their blog and it's just photos. I used to, you haven't written a single, you managed to write a caption once, you know, or like the title of the design and that's all we've got. And it used to enrage me and it was all a numbers game. Oh, yeah. And, you know, that also, like, the influencer industry has really kind of thrown a spanner in the works

for the modelling industry as well. Because there used to be this charm about being discovered as a model, right? Yes. Oh, I spotted her at McDonald's and now she's the next Kate Moss. The idea of beauty and spotting... This is not sponsored by McDonald's. But shout out to your curry sauce. I fucking love that guy.

It's the best. Now I've lost my train of thought. Where was I? Sorry, we were talking about Happy Meals and Big Macs. No, we weren't. Yes, we were. You were saying about the charm of a model. Yes, yes.

And it was just discovered on the street. Yeah, exactly. There would be like a story to her. And yeah, the influencer market has also kind of done something to the traditional modeling world. So yeah, I feel you. I think there is a backlash with that in that now we've come a full circle in this filtered makeup, heavy makeup is going back to like natural beauty. I think everyone's just gone like this is fucking saturated enough. And I feel like the natural model.

But then even with the modeling, it is a numbers game. Yeah. And it shouldn't be. Yeah. It should be who's the best on the shoot. Who's going to make the better editorial look. Yeah. Yep. But on the other side of this topic, I do love that social media has brought a lot more

representation to the table. Yes. And I'm here for that side of the influencer-y like situation because we've taken so much forward in terms of embracing different tones and body shapes. And yeah, I'm happy to be here for that. In everything, in makeup, in shoes, in clothing, everything. Would that movement have happened without social media? Probably not. It was almost like the real women, like, come up and spoke and was like, actually, like, no, I'm not cool with that. Yeah. I do bash social media, and it's a good point to say that, like,

it's not bad. I mean, fuck you, Instagram. But actually, also, you're not that bad. And you do inspire me every day. Yeah, you're cool. Yeah, you aight. Yeah. And you can stay on my home screen forever.

Okay, so I'm going to finish up our awesome episode with just want to pick out three things that I took off your website. And I think the feeling I get is sort of really encompasses who you are. And I thought we should talk about holistic wellness, female empowerment and sustainability. So with holistic wellness, number one, what does that mean to you as a term? And how does that help you cope with your life in the lens? So for me, it's a whole 360. You can't just thrive in one area in your life. You have to kind of take what you have and spread it out evenly. And that to me is holistic wellness. So it's about being mindful about what you need on a physical health level. I prioritize my health. I make sure I eat right. I sleep, drink all that

water. So that's one. But then also just being able to take time to have self-compassion and check my anxiety if I'm feeling uncomfortable with something and just be very in tune with myself and my intuition and my gut. I think like one of the greatest lessons a lot of us go through is the mistake of not trusting your gut. For me, just through my own experiences of having those mistakes,

of not listening to that inner voice has got me into shit. But also by listening to it, it's gotten me very far. And for me to be connected with my gut, I need to make sure that I'm clear. So that's what it is to me. It's really being able to just look at myself

as like a whole 360 and then make sure all my parts are being met is that including like yoga exercise and the physical aspect as well yeah yeah it's it's I mean I do work out regularly just because I've always been an active person I can go deeper into this because I think that um one thing that people get confused about with holistic is that it's all green juices and everything wellness and that and it's that's a very one-sided approach to it I think it's also a very mental thing so it's also being able to just have compassion for yourself and not label things as bad or good and just understand that there has to be balance so yeah I thought I had to make like a celery and apple juice under the

full moon with the blood of a virgin oh yeah yeah yeah is that part of it or yes we do those on Tuesdays I thought so yeah yeah yeah I'm gonna join your next camp I just gotta find a virgin Yeah, just bring your own virgin. See, this is what I do. I take a really good convo and then I just take it down a weird path. This is why I should definitely not have my own podcast. Okay, female empowerment. What does that kind of, once again, as a term mean to you?

And how do you find female empowerment and equality within the media sphere? Big question. Yeah, I'm sorry, it is. Um, yeah, I said this to you earlier, but I actually think that in that, at least in our industry, from what I can see and experience, it's female led. It's just like, there's such big players and they're all women. And I am so grateful for that. I, that's another thing I also say about social media when my friends and I bitch about it.

And I always come up on the other side of the argument. You got to think about it this way. We are in a time and place that a young girl who's like 19 can be posting selfies online and that money is going directly to her and she's empowering herself. She's starting her little side hustle through that and she's getting financial independence and that's helping her grow as a woman.

That would not have happened eight years ago. You know what I mean? Just having this like boss bitch, but like attitude that was not even a thing. And I love seeing that online. I love seeing women build each other up because of these opportunities as women that we have because of what we've created online.

we've progressed so far in terms of our self-empowerment and I love that I love being a part of that it's important to me being part of this generation of that I see so many female leaders I see so much support and conversation bringing each other as a sisterhood up I'll always push that agenda you know I was actually gonna ask you do you find that females do want to lift each other up or is it an element of competition or jealousy or is it just all positive everyone should be successful mindset yeah no I mean women are still women and at the end of it like unfortunately there is still going to be the reality of competition I think it's a personal choice as an individual you can look at it as competition and and use that in a negative way

or you can look at it as a healthy thing like it's totally healthy but no one look at Hanley's podcast uh just stay on mine so no like it's cool I like I want you to do well and stuff but obviously like just so we're clear it's not as good just so I'm fucking clear it's better no I don't know uh-uh girl when you hit me up I was like no we have to do a trade-off and we have to be on each other's podcast and that is building each other up so you know it's a choice to look at it like this it is but you'll be surprised to be honest how many women do not have that mindset it's like an immediate threat jealousy or competition you know and like I have a podcast I'm going to do one sort of how to become a successful blogger how to become a

successful influencer package and one of my points was that don't see other bloggers as competition yes just concentrate on yourself and if you're good at your own field you'll shine through anyway 100% like I have this mindset of like if she does well we all do well like if your podcast does well we're all doing well because we are all you know in this side of the world trying to create conversations boldly in a culture that doesn't necessarily promote that on a grassroots level like really we're out in Southeast Asia trying to just be very opinionated to create more thought so if you do well that's freaking great. I'd love to just end it there to be honest but I feel like I've got to talk about sustainability because I mentioned it earlier but that was such the best

closing thing we'll come back to that bitch okay okay so just quickly tell me how sustainable your life is and how you do make shakes under the full moon but it's with like bamboo compost cups yes yes my own compost too yeah so I the sustainability element in my life is family influenced um my parents are are very green people I think that's just always just sort of being part of my nature to you know just the small things like bring your own bag or bring your own water bottle even though I didn't bring my own water bottle to this recording and I opened the plastic bottle just like hearing my mother's shame as I opened the plastic you should see my face of shame looking at you I can feel it I can feel it but also you know during the pandemic I also just got super

mindful about how much trash I generate as an individual did that happen for you yeah the amount of like takeaways yeah and plastic yeah just like in a like a single person household I guess I was never around enough because you know you go out you're traveling enough for me to sit with my trash and see it build up I was shook yeah yeah that's not cool and then I think look like a lot of people wouldn't recycle any of that couldn't be asked to put that into the green cycling bin into the glass into the paper so they all just goes into the bin yeah it's not cool it's not cool that's always been a big part of my life so it's like buying second-hand clothes buying secondhand furniture always choosing public transport just just the small steps they should

be cheered on even if they are small oh yeah yeah okay so I'm gonna force you into doing that thing that most people hate doing where you give me a a one-liner so I kind of want to say to you if anyone out there is listening and wants to follow in your footsteps in the the life of media albeit modeling acting podcasting presenting what one piece of advice would you give them it's a bitch question right it is my face is like i'm sorry i know and i didn't i didn't write that one down for you and as you were like leading up to that you should have seen my face i was stressed i'm like oh fuck what do because i always get what would you tell your 18 year old self right and my one is to just relax and stop being an anxious mess about everything oh mine

would be to stop fucking like contrasting your photos like I don't know what the trend was back then myspace all my myspace photos I have no eyebrows girl like I just I just like went through like a weird emo scene kid phase and I just just no features on my face anyway um something I would tell people yeah if they want to follow in your footsteps yeah okay I want to be a model on a front cover or I want to be a present what's your yeah honestly you know so I'm going to share a piece of advice that my first co-host on MTV shared with me he said and it's quite a famous saying but they may not remember your name but they will always remember how you made them feel and I think that will take you further than you that people give credit for

because that's it make the lasting impression and but be real about it too that is a perfect ending we both hope we've made all of you feel good things listening to this yeah we hope you feel empowered but you know we've had some giggles and uh inspired genuinely inspired yeah I hope at one point you just nodded along voraciously like yes yeah I agree that was probably when you told everyone you weren't wearing a bra yes girl I'm here with no bra lockdown's been fun huh okay Hanley you're an absolute treasure thank you so so much for coming on my podcast thank you and you're going to be on ours for season two for sure so her podcast is just so we're clear just so we're clear on spotify and you know and hanley your instagram is hanley hofer same as my website

one word h-a-n-l-i hofer and yeah connect with you guys there amazing peace out everyone thank you for listening bye bye bye bye girl bye thanks for listening to the sex in singapore city podcast this episode was produced and hosted by me nick selena watson and recorded at the splice car studio in singapore we're available on apple podcasts spotify google and all major podcast listening apps do subscribe for a new episode every single week please do give us a five-star review it helps other people find our podcast we're also on social media with facebook and the gram don't be shy send me a message and come say hello for more information and to read more articles please do come over and say hey at sexandsingaporecity.com that's sex and a-n-d