Can't Keep My Mouth Shut - She Said, He Said - The Dreaded Discussion of Marriage & Children

Episode Date: May 17, 2021

Do you dread having this conversation? When do you even bring it up - is the first date too soon?  Are they such big deal breakers? Paul Foster & I are here to talk it out...  

This podcast contains strong language and discussions about relationships, sex and love. It may not be suitable for younger listeners. This is the Sex and Singapore City podcast and I am Nick Salina. i'm ready everyone just so you know i've got paul with me tonight i was i was in mid drink motion just to just to get you know get my get my whistle wet and welcome everyone to another monday evening of the sex in singapore city podcast and tonight as you can tell paul is with me again how wet is your whistle my whistle is now very nice and wet because we're we're going to be talking about a quite a serious conversation yes um that that i

think a lot of people in serious relationships especially when they're a little bit older will will have to go through yeah yeah yeah it is it is the dreaded discussion of marriage and children i love the dreaded and to those of you who are married and have children congratulations by the way you made it past the first barrier yeah yeah yeah you don't have you can stop listening to this podcast right now yeah totally redundant for you you you've done it you've got a gold star yeah unless you've already had children in your past relationship and then you have a new relationship and they don't want children and you do want more children or vice versa then we go boom so we might as well

start with that one since you've gone through that sure yeah i mean okay why don't you just put me under the spotlight that's it that's no i think we should start with when do you even start having the conversation wow i mean i don't think there's a there's a hard start or hard first date well okay maybe not first date you know maybe not first date but but but yes actually what it comes up in first date like so how many babies would you how many children do you want do you see yourself getting married and that kind of also can set a tone of oh wow okay she said two i want two she said maybe when i'm like 33 oh my god that me too when i'm 33 like early 30s so like you're like oh wow like ticking the boxes so you do you think a first date convo about the dreaded

marriage and babies discussion is is an option the superficial first kind of question once why not but i guess when it gets really serious is when you're really going to be talking like you know hey we've been together for two three years now uh we're not getting any younger you know but again it's different like if you start a safe relationship when you're 21 yeah and three years from 21 when you're 24 it's very different to when you've got innovation when you're 31 and three years later you're 34 the conversation and topic of marriage is very different between those 10 years 100 right at 24 you're like not even thinking about it maybe it's like we can have the conversation but it's like this is something still in our future well if you are yeah you're

thinking like a lot of my 25 year old um local girls are like i want to be a mom i and i wasn't i wasn't that i did not want to be a mom yeah not at that age no but they do and and they're like and you know one of them is just like amazing with children and you can just tell she's mom vibes you know and she is only 25 and they want they want marriage and they want babies and i had no clue at that age for me whether i was ever going to be a mom i only after i hit my 30s and i fell in love with my ex did i then get mom vibes yeah so yeah i think it is different in those 10 years but it is also different like individually obviously as most things is of course um you know some people like know that they want kids like even as 21 you know yeah i mean it's also different

there is a difference knowing that you want to have kids you know and then feeling that you want to have kids with this specific person yes you right there's there's various levels of it of yes you could grow up always thinking I like for me I I do want family I do want children at some point when that point is though honestly I still don't quite know yeah um yes I didn't have that I didn't really want kids right then I met my ex then I then I saw kids yes and marriage yes so I'm actually yeah I guess I'm not like the typical female I I didn't have the maternal bone I was animals always yeah very similar to to my girlfriend yeah always always and I'm even now I guess i i have more of a maternal but but when i'm when i met my ex um it like he has he has a

kid anyway but that who i adore i love his son to death but that still wasn't the trigger for me was being with him made me want kids a marriage with him right so that was good oh yeah no that was like the first two weeks i was like two weeks shit damn yeah after that it all went a bit down here a bit weird that yeah yeah day 13 it's over um yeah no it was when it was good but no no because even when it was bad i still felt like no i want kids it didn't change me so maybe maybe actually wasn't him per se it was my age maybe my body clock kicked in post 30 yeah yeah and it just so happened he was my partner yes at that time exactly someone that you felt you could have yeah children with which then sticks with you in that sense because you like already have that

feeling and you're like oh he's the first one that's brought that out of you but that feeling can now kind of is still with you yes but you need to find the right man yes yes who's not just the right man for you as a partner but can be the right man as a father to your children beautifully put yes this is very important because you could meet the right guy yeah but he might not be father material no i that's what i felt about my ex towards the end when i looked back on his behavior the way he treated me the way he treated my cats the way treat my fish and you know like just his fatherhood in general i thought i don't actually want kids with you sociopath i was i was writing into my imaginary book ladies and gentlemen

just screaming into that weirdly if you want to choose the father of your kids don't go for a sociopath or a psychopath or a narcissist or just cluster b personality disorders yeah avoid actually like a flag red flag red flag but for yes i agree so but when i was with him i did want kids with him fair enough but there was always this like element in me where i was like i don't know if you are going to be the father figure that i want for my kids and like it's a very yeah it's a very strange actually discussion and topic to have because when it comes to marriage and babies things can also change when you meet someone as in you can change from either wanting them or not wanting them absolutely so say that first let's go back to the first date for a second

because you say okay paul we're on a first date and i'm like yeah i don't want kids on marriage and you're like oh shit well i do exactly does that already change your right create a bias that's what i'm saying yeah but but i do yeah so if we're already talking about i mean we don't know if we're gonna even be together exactly what happens if we do like we click and three years down the road she still thinks this way i'm fucked but then i but then i could not have realized that i would have been with you for two years and being like marriage baby that's right which is where then the conversation comes up of where are we heading with this like we love each other we're so good together should will we get married yes will we have kids yes or no or whatever and

that it's a hard topic to breach you know um if you're not aligned for the thing it's it's difficult because if you're not aligned as well at the beginning things can change yes or you can get a few years down the line and one of you was hoping the other one would change yes then they go hey i was consistent from the start love like i'm not interested yeah and then you think well then you're you're just so emotionally invested and you're in love and yeah what do you yeah do you do you give up this love exactly because you you're your life is so good together and you have so much already because that there now is no future or the or the future you've envisioned yeah you want yeah and yeah you're right because you could be with someone and they're like

the best but they're not the mother or father material or you know you see a lot of the vice versa where you see a lot of people you're like oh man that person would be an awesome dad or an awesome mom but of course you know you're not going to be like hey are you available you know we don't quite have anything going on but you know i see you as a really good mom and to be honest i probably would actually do it that's the next level of it now just yeah just go out and look okay i'm like i think i want your sperm yeah let me tell you about myself oh you don't know me at all okay let's have a coffee yeah wait is your sperm the one that comes out dying or go in very strong kind one yeah another episode guys if you if you if you knew what i was talking about it

means you've been listening to other episodes and you know that i'm still traumatized from that vision so this is a question okay when i say the dreaded discussion then is there a possibility that getting it all out in the open very early on say first day or say oh you just started you can actually hinder because you're not letting the two of you grow or evolve and change as humans individually and is it like oh my like you know paul we're on a date i've gone no i don't want kids because I was 27 28 I didn't and you've gone well then I don't think this is a long-term thing yeah and you had no idea that two years down the line I could have become because I had no idea so I mean I guess my example my sister had a baby and obviously then I had like my stepson as I

called him I had no idea how motherly I was going to be but with these two I was like mother material times 100 but you wouldn't think it to look at me or to like fuck you or like oh look on my social media you wouldn't go oh my god she's maternal but like when I was with my ex his son would want to come and sleep on my lap yeah and I would be the one that wanted to like bother him and cuddle him and like he'd be crying and coming to me and like I'm all over my niece and I didn't that was a real turning point for me but a year before that yeah you would have got a very different response and I would have gone oh I can't deal with kids so I just wonder whether there's so much pressure on this particular conversation that actually is not helpful it's a hindrance

or whether it's something you should be having really early on and because they are such serious deal breakers they're a deal breaker to the point they're one of the reasons me and my ex actually didn't work out because every other month he changed his mind about marrying me and having kids and i remember saying to him well shit like i refuse to step mom your son and never get to enjoy being a mother myself i find that very selfish yeah yeah extremely selfish of you yeah like you want a family unit with me and you he used to say how you used to love watching me and his son together and like he he said it was like the first time he felt like a proper family unit but then wanted to deny me that exact feeling yeah yeah yeah so you just didn't want two

divorces and two step children yeah he didn't want to be like shit i'm now stuck between singapore and uk yeah yeah yeah probably because he knew he was a sociopath at the time when these conversations were happening i had no idea like obviously the guys dealing with that the conversation was so on and off so on and off like one time he was like oh you're all you're pressurizing is about wedding and fucking marriage and babies right it's just pressure pressure pressure pressure because I was feeling so worried and insecure because I knew he constantly changed his mind so I'm like right I'm 33 now when I was 32 I was like I'm 30 no I was 33 well at one point I was right yeah yeah I've been by 32 at 33 your math is very good so I was like I'm not getting any

younger if he's going to keep changing his mind now this is like a risk for me because I'm now losing my potential option of having kids yeah because my body's not getting any younger yeah you know so it's like the aging is it is a big deal we don't want to make out like it's a problem with female body clock and female age but it is an issue yeah yeah I don't want to be 38 39 40 and trying for my first baby you know and if I stuck around with this guy I felt like that was what was going to happen yeah because he even said like well I don't want a kid till I'm 40 and I was like well that would make me 38 how fucking selfish are you it's not your body you know you can't have everything your own way so that is this this marriage and babies discussion

was a contributing factor to us splitting up fair enough because i was like i'm not doing this anymore me and joey aren't too far off that that scenario of age and everything as well in actual fact so um it is it is difficult and i'm gonna go back to my there's no right or wrong you know going back to when you were asking when's the right time yeah do you bring it up early do you set the tone do you create a biasness like you said we all evolve we all grow as people as individuals but also as partners yeah things change um there's all it just has to be the conversation right you just you just have to be able to communicate and and know but there is no right and wrong because you get people who they were brought up with the thinking that like okay

let's you know no sex before marriage and then when they find that one and they get married they're gonna have sex i'm gonna have children already that's it yeah that's their mindset already you know and getting almost married quite quite early more often than not and happy to have children and get that family unit going um and then you've got you know you've got others who will just evolve over time they just grow they were together they might not have wanted children at the beginning of the relationship but five years in they're like yeah this is it this this has worked we we do work together this is amazing and we let's have a family so and then you get the last one where it's you don't quite know what is there is there going to be an age problem you know

especially for females more so than males you you do have a yeah specific body clock um that you kind of have to adhere to yeah i think a lot of women have their own idea of their own age gap for themselves as well like so if you want if you want children of course this is it so if you don't there's no yeah and if you don't if you if you really know your heart I don't want kids I think you should from the get-go yeah from absolute get-go yeah yeah yeah yeah if you're 110% sure because if you're sitting across the table with someone and you like you're like look i'm never going to have kids yeah and that's never going to change you the person deserves to know yeah before it goes any further that's and that okay goes both ways obviously yes yes yes of

course i i just we just put it at a point of the female with her body clock but it does go both ways yeah when i when i first met my ex he he said he was scared but like didn't he he wasn't a no but it wasn't a yes and i said look i've like we'll see where this goes yeah yeah so basically i can't keep me hanging on and i was probably prime like supply for him at the time because i said i definitely don't want kids anytime soon i'm a career girl yeah yeah but in the future yes so 25 nine year old nicks yeah yeah and 33 year old nicks is still a career girl but now i'm like i want kids in my future and like i said to him i've been consistent since day one yeah you know you're the one that says i don't want i do want i do what i said i don't want now but in the

future yes not right now but in future yes and then i look at my body clock and i think right my body's gonna have to recover from having a baby right that's just joey's thing as well it's gonna fucking recover it's gonna bounce back yeah and then what if i want another one yeah yeah you So that's what goes through our heads. And I think when you talk about, like when you are, like you said, 24, 25, it's a very different conversation to when you're 35 because of the time and your female body. And where you are in your career. Yes.

How much of a better life could you now give a child? Yes. You know, these are very important things to kind of know. You know, you don't I've always I've never wanted to bring a new life into this world without knowing that I could take care. A hundred percent. Yeah. Everything. Yeah. Even if I, you know, tragically passed away early, that I could there would be enough money there that I could leave that it would still be able to. Yeah. To grow up. That's a really good point. Opportunities, mainly schooling, of course, to get an education that that would be, you know, a big thing.

so we we do we evolve so much and i guess we're always touching on this 25 and 35 range because i also think that's where the biggest kind of evolving happens for us 100 right like yeah you finish high school and you go to uni and then you need a couple of years at uni and after uni to start when you're in the working world to build that that that baseline and then i always say from 25 to 35 we all should have worked our asses off but also had a lot of fun and just you know met new people discovered new things different relationships etc etc to the point of like okay i kind of know what i want now and and what i can do and also just discovering who you are yeah like i don't know like 25 year old nicks i mean she was really cool by the way um cooler than

this next now no this next is she was sluttier for sure she loved the old london models yes yes i was like partying london models and then i think if i look back i'm like jeez my life has changed on a million years would i've never said i'm going to be sitting in singapore with my brand in singapore i'd only started sex in london city for two years when i was 25 like just a different human different person and i and i had no idea about like mental health yeah or like inner child wounds or looking at your none of it so it's not even just your career and your finances it's just you as a person yeah if i if i was parenting a child now there would be a very different upbringing to 25 year old nicks totally for sure and i think i could that's you can safely say

for pretty much everyone yeah but not but but but not just anyone who's had mid-20s not at all or even younger yeah i think my mom had me when me and my sister by the time she was 26 27 yeah my my godson was you know my my friend gave birth to him when she was like 15 no so yeah you know and she's an amazing mother and he's an amazing well now he's a grown-up right he's at uni now so yeah I think it should it's less about the only thing when I talk about age is to get hit in the part where your body is unable to really yeah be pregnant well yes that's my cover well yeah yes so part of me now thinks I'm like I've honestly thought should I have had kids earlier I'm now and I never ever ever thought I'd think that like yeah I should I have braced it

Should I have gone for it? Should I have got pregnant, you know, or met someone else that wants to have babies with me? No, but then your life here would probably not have existed. No. No, definitely would not. And you wouldn't be doing this podcast. No.

And everyone listening would not have had the beautiful advantage and experience of you. Of course, I know. You see? You're all lucky, lucky people. Exactly, exactly. But no, for me, I think, so if we go back from the age of second and just divert back to the discussion itself, like when you, so when you have that discussion, say whether it was a first date, second date, six months in, two years in, and one of you says adamantly no. And the other one says adamantly yes.

Tough call. It really is, isn't it? Because I think both deep down inside somewhere will hope maybe the other person will change, you know, over time. Or if they were still quite a compromising and fair person, they would just be like, okay, maybe in a couple of years or something or a few years, you know, I can change. But right now, don't see it. but it's really that's really tough i think that's something you kind of have to experience to be able to yeah give an answer to i do know a couple of couples that one of them doesn't want kids one of them doesn't want kids so the one who wants kids has basically said well i choose you

so i'm yeah i will sacrifice yeah same actually actually same as my sister and my brother-in-law right he wanted kids my sister's a teacher she's like I deal with kids every day and to be honest I don't want my our own children and and Des bless him he was just like okay I exactly like what you just said I choose you I love you I choose you and we don't have to have children because you make me happy um so you can't yeah when you hear things like that you see things like that and and it works in real life they're the living epitome of one person adamantly saying no and one person adamantly wanting you know saying yes and they've made it work so i i also believe that there is someone for everyone in this world you just have to find that one person

you mean just one no there's a few but that you'll always find one person for you seven did she I mean they were short but she had seven of them she is my inspiration isn't it seven seven is like supposed to be that magical number like we have seven

what was the term like perfect partners or again the soulmates seven soulmates we all have seven soulmates in this world something like this but I still believe there is someone for everyone you just have to find that someone but there's a lot of someone you can choose from it's not just

one you don't have one soulmate you know that you have to be fated to find but do you think if you sat at the table on a first date like and you like perhaps you met this someone do you think that dreaded discussion would actually just be like effortless passing conversation like hey do you like yeah so what's your take on marriage and babies yeah i love it like does it even need the word dreaded no is it could it be like a super chilled positive experience it can be it can be that that's why when you said dreaded i laughed and then that's why you said what you know when does it come up and you're like first date i was like well i was like yeah to a certain extent i felt like i would scare the crap out of a guy well then that's but that's also

good to know you know you're sifting through people in this sense and if someone can't deal with it do you want to be with someone that gets scared of do you want to get married at some point and have kids if someone's like and can't answer you'd be like yeah you know what maybe this isn't gonna work not just because you can't you don't want all that just because you can't even answer it yeah if you can't even just answer it what the fuck you can't just say no if you don't want like i'm not putting you on the spot here we're just having a conversation i would just be like this might this might just be too difficult if you can't even give me a straight answer on something where you're trying to get to know someone especially on the first date i think i think

there should be a lot of hard but casual questions asked on the first day yeah i like to test people as well i'm a tester so i test people very early on to see how they react to things like what give me a testy question yeah i mean that's one perfect question right as well but it's always also like um i like to like introduce them early to my family and friends and put them in those kind of situations to see how they would react and deal with because i also i want someone who's sociable and someone who can you know be with people that i love and and vice versa um but yeah Or if we're at a meal, asking questions about food and things like that and, you know, seeing how they react if I eat something

that they might not really have ordered or liked or something. Or do you ask to share their food? See their reaction. Yeah. I'm down for that, you know. I think, again, first dates, I think, are quite crucial in that sense. I'm always like, do you like animals? I always draw that in.

do you have any animals if they're like i'm like oh okay we're done now yeah check please that's what joey said to me she's like okay so i've got two cats and a dog and i had one cat and i knew my cat okay she's like dog bam bam no worries you're past that test he she loves everyone and she really loves guys i was like okay cool and then he's like bongo bongo's like quite chill he's like so you probably do find the two he's like but you have to get past moshi if Moshi doesn't like you or you don't like Moshi we're probably not going to have a relationship

and I was like alright so I knew I knew very well I'm like Moshi Moshi gotta get on her good side runs off to the pet shop for cat treats yeah yeah yeah no like just before I went to visit her

at her place for the first time I just put catnip all over me yeah yeah I put just a little bit behind my ear here Moshi loved it she was all over me I was like this is it good thing I brought my overnight bag tonight

and your condom condoms yeah yep all there all good yeah it was a bit tricky to be like do you want to put this iud in like i thought you know like that's not what you put in the iuds that's all right i've got my tweezers just cough go you know please everyone listen to our previous episode about contraception don't don't just focus on this one clip it here but but you back back to the topic tonight you you are right i think uh there's a lot we all have these personal gauges that we we need to put out there to see whether the other person will pass yeah and i'm not saying the person you can be with should tick every single box but they should tick the important boxes and most of

those second third level boxes as much as possible yeah and and as we evolve that's what you start to figure out why that last relationship didn't work or what I didn't like about that person or what I'm looking for in my next partner that you know we all have those check check boxes that we need to tick off and when I like with the marriage and babies discussion specifically when I was with my ex at the beginning it was the most like magical conversation so it's like of course yeah you know we had it planned out he wrote me letters and we were gonna get married here and he couldn't wait to see me in my white dress and wow well he went that far yeah yeah he was like i imagine that you'll be pregnant walking down the aisle so it was a double whammy and um

i just can't wait to you to see you as my wife my mother of a kid and blah blah blah you got sucked into this yeah wow yeah like i had no idea about any of it i thought this was what it was this is like love this is the movie's love paul i had no idea what i was dealing with so for me I really truly believe that and it was not until like a cut like he moved it and things started taking a downward turn where then he started exposing his real self when he was like marriage is just a piece of paper yeah why are you into I've already been married once why do you want to marry and he used to say why do you want to marry me so much why would I have to justify that well I don't know if I want kids and this this really hurt me because by that point I

was so involved that I did want marriage and babies and for me it was like but I also did really love him it was very confusing so then what happened is it made the discussion come up even more because then I'm like are you serious you don't want marriage you know like and then then what happens is marriage and babies becomes this massive dark cloud in your house the dreaded conversation yeah which is where you were coming from yeah it's like I kept and then then I think right just no pressure sweep it aside like you know he's not really proven overly great husband material anyway yeah so let's just chill it and then but I couldn't get rid of it once I caught wind of his real feelings you know and I'm like I can't believe I'm standing here saying I want

to marry you you've literally written in one of your letters the place you want to marry me where we've been to together you've described what kind of dress out you fucking see me in and then your next breath it's marriage is just a piece of paper why do you want to marry me and i just can't believe why should i have to justify shouldn't you justify why you don't want to marry me yeah yeah isn't that normal to want to marry someone yeah if you love them yeah and if you wrote that whole letter i mean that's just i've never heard this story before so that's crazy yeah yeah this is this is iceberg this is a piece of paper that you wrote on from the very beginning like i mean i would never never write all that stuff if it's love bombing if it's not meant to be yeah it's not

you don't mean it no it's complete love bombing but that's what threw me off and then i tried so hard to not want to get married and babies and to chill out and that's why like year you know one year went two years and three years and four years and then come four years i mean like i couldn't hide it anymore yeah you know and and i feel like if anyone's in my situation where it is a big deal now don't please don't push aside how you feel about marriage and babies they're called deal breakers for a reason yeah right and unless you are that kind of couple that says you know what I choose you and you have to choose them without any resentment you can't say right I choose you even though you don't want kids and I do and then hate them for it right you have to

really choose that person yeah yeah I couldn't agree more and if you're gonna go down a resentment a room or you're going to think you might go down there then it's called you got to break that deal yes and you got to make the dread the next dreaded conversation of you know what maybe this isn't going to work yeah or this doesn't work for me yeah yeah yeah yeah it's tough it's tough i did do that a couple of times with him more than a couple of times actually particularly last year but then his response was no no no i do want marriage and babies i'm just scared so then he went back into i'm scared of my past i'm scared i do want my so we went back into that cycle again So then, like, for a few weeks I was uplifted on marriage and babies.

But it's weird because it becomes such an issue, even though, like, it never happened either. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. It can be very confusing. Yeah. And I'm like, I'm 32, I'm 33. So for me, my age became a problem.

And I think when you figured that part out and you knew that this guy was just... Fucking me around? Yeah, stringing you along. And once you really picked that and saw how unhealthy everything else was, you made the call. And that's not to say everyone needs to go down this particular road of anything. But I think there are certain indications, like you said, when you have these conversations, you'll kind of know. I have a feeling still you'll kind of know.

You kind of figure it out together. And it doesn't have to be dreaded. Nope. At all. No, it should be positive. It should be. Yeah. I mean, marriage and baby, they're good things in life.

Yeah. so if you want it you find someone who wants it if you don't want it you find someone who doesn't want it and that's that's probably the best way it's gonna work pretty much yeah yeah yeah that's the perfect pairing yeah in that sense again you get the special ones where one does concede and says they don't need what they've always wanted in that sense but you know again as long as you're happy then fine but whatever decision you make don't later on regret it and say that you're unhappy and and for whatever you know reason it may be because then that's not fair because that's easy for you to blame other people when you actually made that decision on your own and

and one thing I will say as well like is don't say the answer that you think the other person wants yeah so you say you're on a first date and you think oh you know she's she's a 33 year old woman and she's definitely going to want kids. I don't want to say, yeah, of course I do. Don't do that. I want three pairs of twins. Oh, my God. Oh, I fucking don't.

Yeah, you're right. That's a good point to say. Yeah, be very honest with subjects like this. Yeah, yeah. You know, like you can pretend other stuff like, you know, she really likes dessert and you don't have a sweet tooth. You can white lie about that if you want. Yeah, okay, I love chocolate as well, but not babies and marriage.

yeah yeah because that's that's important on a scale of one to important it's fucking important yeah i think i mean if anyone has any experiences or anything along these lines it would be cool to to hear about them and if anyone does want my babies i'd be cool to hear about it especially uh yeah yeah yeah she's ready she's ready guys she's ready she wants little sauerkrauts running around why are my children sauerkrauts just from your last i can't believe that they would be little beautiful fairies okay they'll be fairies i could just i'm going behind these little imps actually yeah bang on yeah yeah on that note on that note we shall leave this conversation thank you so much for coming in as always it's a pleasure paulie loved it loved it look forward to

our next set of recordings yes anyone listening in you've got anything you want to say on this topic of marriage and babies you can message me or paulie paulie's instagram is paul foster with three r's no one knows why yeah and mine is at nick selena which you both know and also please do message us as well on instagram and put in requests for future topics yeah that's important too guys let us know let us know okay that's us down see ya ciao peace out thanks for listening to the sex and singapore city podcast this episode was produced and hosted by me nick selena and recorded at the splice car studio in singapore i'm available to listen to on spotify apple podcasts google and all major podcast listening apps do subscribe to enjoy a new

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