Cinepals - ECHO Episode 5 Review!

Episode Date: January 11, 2024

Jaby Koay and Achara Kirk watch and review the fifth episode of Marvel's latest show Echo which is airing on Disney Plus and Hulu. This is a spoiler review for Echo 1x5 Reaction. Echo stars Alaqua Cox as Maya Lopez, Vincent D'Onofrio as Wislon Fisk / Kingpin, Devery Jacobs (Reservation Dogs) as Bonnie, Cody Lightning as Biscuits, Chaske Spencer as Henry, Graham Greene as Skully and Tantoo Cardinal as Chula.  Watch our cutdown reaction on https://www.YouTube.com/@CinePals or watch the full length reaction on our YouTube memberships or on https://www.Patreon.com/JabyKoay   Music from https://www.EpidemicSound.com

Hey, guess what, Achara? What? This is, I think, the shortest episode in the entire season. Which means, what does that mean in a Marvel show? Usually, that's where they put all their money. Yeah. Yeah. Most of the action.

And then they're like, okay. We're done now. You can go home. I really don't understand that logic. It's like, you can still have dialogue. Yeah. Like, that's cheap. Exactly.

Exactly. Senna. Pals. What's going on, everybody? I'm Jabby Kauai, joined by Achara Kirk. What's up? We are watching Marvel's Echo. This is the final episode.

episode titled Maya, after the main character. Thanks so much for being here. Here we go. Turns out most voters want somebody who is a fighter, which works against the career politicians. There are legitimate problems in the city right now, and the voters want somebody who understands the pain they're going through. Is that candidate even out there?

There's no doubt it is waiting. His name is Vivek Romo-Swamy. Just kidding. Just kidding. Could be anybody great. Oh gosh. I still liked the last episode better. I thought that was the best episode in the season.

I thought this had cool stuff in it. I really, really liked the scene with the mom. That was nice. It was really powerful. That actress was really good. Yeah. Even though it was shot simple. Again, I felt a deeper connection with just all that stuff going on.

Everything she was saying, I guess, because it was like kind of, it was culminating in this, in that moment of her finally having that connection with her ancestors and realizing it, right? Realizing it, right? Well, I think, like, that's why it hit me in the fields because there is something really nice, like, knowing or thinking about this concept of, like, you are yourself, but you are the culmination of everyone else who came before you. In addition to just, like, oh, yeah, there's family and ancestry and whatever, and you come from a long lineage of really awesome women. But there's also that magical element of, like, because we share this blood, we now have all. all of these amazing powers and skills. And it was really lovely, like, just the notion

that you're never alone, you know? Yeah. I liked it. What? You got stuff to say. That was cool, yeah. Say it now, forever hold your pieces. I don't know, man.

What? I don't know. The trajectory of Maya is she has to find her way back to the connection with her ancestors, right? Yeah, to her people, to her family. And I think I mentioned this in a previous episode, I just wish they did a better job of kind of building us towards that and like the hummingbird thing, or is it a hummingbird or woodpecker?

It's a woodpecker, yeah, sorry, woodpecker. They kept showing you this woodpecker thing and it's like, Maya notices it, but she ignores it, like, that means nothing. And, but eventually, like, it hits her, like, no, no, that whole time, it's been like her ancestors sort of talking to her or her mom sort of talking to her, you know what I mean? Something like that to sort of build it up. I can see the steps.

I can see like, this is what they want us to get to, and this is the trajectory, this is the landing. I just wish that they did a nicer job of kind of gliding us towards that, as opposed to it just kind of happens, which is what it felt like. That's my feeling about it. There were opportunities, again, that I was like, you could have done that in a more creative way, and that would have been cool, but it's fine.

It's like those are the choices that they made with the shooting and the editing. I thought the fight scene was horrible. It was a little funny to see Graham of, like, punch the guy. I know, not going to lie, that was a little bit funny. It's just because, you know, she's a frail old lady. There's only so much she can do convincingly, right? I was a little bit frustrated by that only because I wanted that to be Maya's moment

and it became Bonnie's moment too and I'm like, I don't care about Bonnie, honestly. I don't have any connection to her. But then it became this sort of Shazam thing where we all get powers. It's like, what? No. Because we're family. No, I didn't like that.

And then the action coverage was, I don't know what the hell was going on but that was edited in a real bad way. Honestly, like I didn't think that the fight scene was super memorable, but at that point, like I said, it was just like fully in my feelings. So I was just like, this is amazing, but also grandma looks kind of funny. I think because of the brevity of it, like the length, I was expecting more, like way more

to happen in this 30 minutes. There wasn't a whole lot of action. I feel like we needed more to like really build up to that emotional moment with Kingpin. The action ended before it started is what it felt like. I really enjoy action. Don't get me wrong. But I will always favor an emotional storyline over action. So for me, I was just like...

Speaking of emotion. I liked it. When Bonnie was like sign languaging... Signing. Yeah, sorry. When she was signing, right? Because she took the contact out. I was like, this is a cool thing here that they're doing

because they took out all the sound. It's just everything's basically... What I asked for earlier is all Echo's perspective. Maya's perspective, right? Kingpin is saying these awful things. things like now I'm gonna kill all of you yeah and Bonnie's like now he's going to kill all of us I can see she's getting emotional but she's just going through it there's no hesitation in anything she's saying at all like you know what I mean like wait what is okay and then she signs it

slower you know what I mean and maybe subtitle slower I don't know something to like emphasize the drama of what he's saying just a creative choice to like let us know that Bonnie's feeling a certain way about this like yo we all about to die this is fucked yeah but like you want to sign that slowly and die halfway through signing? She's in shock. She doesn't, she's a firefighter. She's not a cop. She doesn't deal with this.

I guess, but you just said she's a firefighter, so she deals with high pressure situations every day on her job. High pressure burning buildings, not people about to kill her. I'm just saying, I don't know, man. That's a minute thing that I noticed in the moment. I'm like, wouldn't she be a little more scared? Like, wouldn't she hesitate? Like, that was the least problematic thing in the episode.

I liked where the character went. I liked your outfit a lot. I liked what it wanted to do. I just wanted it to do it better, if that makes any sense. Yeah. Yeah, I understand that. I understand that. And, like, I can see that you have a lot of gripes with the execution of it.

But I think because the show, I guess, essentially stuck the landing for me emotionally, I can kind of forget some of that stuff that you're having issues with or like that you're basically going like if I would have done this I would have done it differently and potentially better or these are the ways that I think that it could have been elevated and like that's fine and all but like the director the the people who worked on this decided to go about it whatever way that they did and I think so long as the heart of it is conveyed I think that

They did a fairly job. I had no connection to Bonnie at all. The heart of it was not conveyed strong enough. There was this moment at the end where Bonnie's got powers too, and I'm like, why should I care about that? Like, I don't think it stuck the landing. That's my issue with it.

It stuck parts of the landing, like, oh, that, but not this. You know what I mean? That's my feeling about it anyway. Okay, well, you're allowed to have feelings about it. And like, there were instances where Maya would go somewhere. I'm like, I don't know where she's going. And the show never really bothers to explain.

She's just going somewhere. Like, even at the end, where'd she come from? What were she writing? Like, just to go to the house, it's like, you don't even live far away. So where were you going just now? What were you doing? I have no idea.

So it's just writing, shots of her writing for the sake of her writing. Maybe it's a misdirect to make us think, oh, maybe she's leaving. Well, yeah. I don't know. I'm just like, where's she going? Oh, she's just going to the barbecue. I don't know what she did.

Like, did she bring something from like a bakery? Like, why did she, where was she? When she was running away, where was she running? away too. She just stopped off at a restaurant to eat some eggs. I'm like, was that the goal? I'm so confused right now. You know what I mean? But maybe I'm expecting too much. It's just like, it's kind of good to know what your characters are up to. Like, they're just doing stuff. Like, why? Just willy-nilly. You know, we don't need to know. Am I, am I, am I expectations too high that I want to

know where the character is going or coming from? I don't know. I feel like people, people will probably say things, like how I'm very pedestrian or whatever. Oh, I'm afraid of the exact opposite. I'm afraid of people coming at me for being too hard and being like, just a little charred talk and let her feel her feelings. And she's right. You're wrong. Jabba, you don't know anything. You're too persnickety. Well, you are. I'm not in disagreement with you. You're very priscuity. That's the thing. A lot of these things that you're saying, I'm like, obviously, I don't know an awful lot about filmmaking, right? Like, I know from what I've learned from talking with you, from watching lots of movies.

For me, a lot of my knowledge comes from like the acting side of things because that's where I trained. Filmmaking side. Maya's acting improved. I thought her acting was better

in this episode. Yeah, she handled the emotional parts really, really well. I thought that she did a fantastic job and like I really enjoyed her mother's acting as well. But like when it comes to like,

oh, the filmmaking side of it and the storytelling side of it, I'm kind of like, yeah, I don't know if you have to tell the audience exactly everything that the character's doing like they went to the bathroom to do a poop

no no no no no no no you don't know no no no you don't some things can just be inferred it's just that they have these instances of characters like going places I'm like where you okay maybe maybe they'll tell us at some point and then just never did and I'm like why where was she going what was that about

what were like you have to know your character's objectives yeah you know what I mean like that is objective was to leave town and she succeeded because she left town. All right. I don't know. Where was she going at the end? If she brought some cookies or something,

then I would have understood. It's like, all right, bye. She drove to New York to get some Levine cookies. Yeah. And then came back. Something. Just anything. Or the cheese hot dogs from fools rush in.

Anything. You know? Something just to like give her purpose. Because she's just like, it's literally just riding for the sake of writing. And which is like what I feel like has been kind of happening in the show. It's like stuff just kind of happens because. And the whole thing with the guy in the Winnebago was a little bit wacky to

I'm like, okay, so the, so the plan was, we're going to park here. He's going to pull out an arp-pg, and he's going to fire it at some point at the pow-wow. For what? Oh, okay, so it's for, it's for, it's for Maya to, like, wreck her heart because she wrecked. Like, that's the plan. And why did Maya go in there? Because the bird was there? I don't know.

Maybe it's because I play video games, but, like, I'm going to sneak around the walls. She's just, like, walking straight down the middle. All these lights are going off on top of her. She's just like, who I'm just going to keep going this way. Like, okay, so here's the thing. thing. This is my rationalization, and I might be entirely wrong. She can't hear, so... But she can see the lights. Yeah, okay, but like, she lacks a sense that we often take for granted, which is like, you know, she can't hear if she's being sneaky or not. I feel like I'm making

my case. If I can't hear, I'm... What's the word sideling? Siddling? Sure. Which one is it? I don't know how to pronounce it. I play... When I played Zelda, when I played Zelda Windwaker, I just like, I saw the word and I... I... I've always said sideling. Like, I don't know because it's one of those words that I've read a lot. Yeah, me too. But I don't actually say it out loud. For the sake of conversation, sidling. If I'm her, I'm sideling because I'm like, I can't hear anything, right?

So I have to sidel so I can see everything. That's all. Okay. It just looked unprofesh, okay? She's just walking down the middle with the gun. I'm like, come on. Be sneaky a little bit. And then all the lights come on and she's like, well, I guess there's no hiding now.

At least build it up a little bit better. That's all I'm saying. Okay. That is not persnickety. That is so persniquity. No, it's not. She is supposed to be a trained assassin type of person. And she's just walking down the middle of the bar like an idiot.

Come on. That's not persnickety. That's a crucial detail. Okay, fine. It's just like, okay, when I watch Dr. Strange, the first one, and I'm hearing Benedict Cumberbatch rattle off like all this crazy medical dialogue. I don't know what any of that means, but he does, right? And so I'm like, okay, this guy knows what he's talking about.

It sounds smart. I'm convinced. Benedict Cumbersnatch is a doctor, right? When she's walking down the middle of that, I'm like, well, that's what anyone would do. That's not like what an assassin might do or a trained martial. I don't know, you know what I'm saying?

Like, it doesn't look like training. It just looks like, okay, we're just going to have you walk here because mark A, mark B, land there, and then lights come on. Great. It just doesn't feel like effort. That's all I'm saying. Okay.

You feel like that's personicity. I don't know, man. Okay. I feel like, I feel like this conversation is like, I left the episode kind of like feeling, you know, in my feelings. I'm like, wow, this was great. And then you're like, hi there. Let me give you 10,000 reasons why it was shit.

No. Oh, my God. Okay, okay, fine, fine, fine, fine. I love me to extend an olive branch, okay? Okay. I liked her acting, okay? I liked the costume. I liked the mom.

I thought the mom was great. And I liked the little thing with the woodpecker, too. I thought that was cool. Okay, so talking about the woodpecker, let's circle back around. that because you in the beginning you talked about how it's like oh why hasn't she never seen it before blah blah blah she couldn't see it because she didn't have that connection to her ancestors before and it was clouded while she was in new york and she was away from her home and doing all these horrible things and like murdering people for fiske and when she came back and only when

she came back did she start having the visions and then the connection to the woodpe HECO, which is the connection to her. So we're in agreement that she murdered people, right? And, special magic. Yeah, she murdered people. Okay, so when Fisca's like, this is the hammer I used to kill my father, she's like, murder! She's like so shocked.

I'm like, no, because he killed her father. Like, family is so important to her. I don't think. His father. Yeah. His own father. His own father and her father. But like, family.

But I don't think she made the connection to her own father yet. No. It's just like she was so shocked when a total. When she saw the hammer and saw, and then he confessed that he killed his own dad. Right, because she might have killed a bunch of other people, but she would never kill her own family, her own blood, her own brethren. She wouldn't do that. I don't know.

That's why. She grew up with this character. I don't know. Wilson Fiske doesn't exactly hide things very well. He seems pretty, you know. Well, okay, fine. Maybe that's just our problem. privilege being on this side of the screen that we can see what what he does but also give me a break

a child that's seen at the child that seen at the post office that's seen at the post office when wilson fist got the spider cracks out of from his face and and and you know the grandma's like oh yeah i got a granddaughter her name's Maya this is where she lives that was dumb that was dumb but like i can buy into the fact that maybe she's like being nice to a stranger she's a small town lady i don't know i've i've never hung around small town people but i've heard they like to chat so i'm from a all right i'm gonna i'm gonna concede and say fine okay fine i concede okay she she was shocked she was shocked because it's like okay that's your dad though you can't kill your dad yeah okay fine but it's just like you heard the story right i heard the story

his mom was getting beaten by his dad it's like is it that shocking that he's like is it that shocking he had to step in i don't remember the order of things that he said didn't he reveal it first and then say that i don't know it was abusive it's a moot point i it's it's a moot point it's a move point it's a cow's opinion yeah um it's fine you win i i i'm wrong i don't know i don't need to win that that's you're right it's fine it's but the thing with the grandma at the post office was whack like that was so stupid it's kind of dumb yeah and then and then and And then her turning around and doing like a punch. The guy, I'm like, what are you for real show?

Is it trying to be endearing? Is that what that was? Like, I'm confused. I don't know. Endeering, empowering. I mean, I love an old lady beating people up. I think it's cute. But yeah, it did look funny.

Yeah. I just, I think that for some odd reason I wanted to see it level up. I want a more violence. I think that's what it was. Like, Native American Lady Avengers wasn't enough for you? No, well, it's that the show starts off going, there's some graphic violence in the show to see you know. I'm like, okay, here we

go. Bring on the graphic violence show. Like, everything in there was so tame. I'm like, yo, Indiana Jones, Raiders of the Lost Ark was more violent. And there's no parental warning on that shit. And that's on Disney Plus, I think. Have you seen the ending of Raiders of the Lost Ark? It is

f***ing graphic. It is so much more graphic than that. Raiders of the Lost Ark is that one where he like melt. Yes. Yeah. And I'm like, this was so tame. Like, there was a little bit of blood sometimes. Give me a break. No, and when you compare it to Netflix Daredevil, it's like, uh, what was that?

I think that you could have gotten both. I think that this is again why I go back to it. I feel like there was a budgetary issue. There was a time issue of some kind. It looked worse than taken three, you know? Liam Neeson's taken three. I don't think I've ever seen it. I haven't either, but I've heard terrible things about it.

So, what I'm saying is, okay, assuming that you had the budget and the time, what you really should have had was a proper fight scene to bring. break Fisk down to his knees, so she has the opportunity to get in there to go hashtag heal. You know what I mean? But she just went straight forward. I'm like, whoa, wait, hold on a second. I kind of liked that, though. You know, when her mom was kind of explaining the different powers that they had, like, you know, cunning and her strength and blah, blah, blah, blah, and then love, I'm like, psh, what's love? How's love going to come into the fight? And then to have her, you know, be accepting of Fisk and be like, no, you're my uncle. I'm going to try and

help you and to have her be there and be like you know you're holding on to all this trauma all this baggage like let me take that for you you know I thought that that was such a wonderful act of love that she showed towards him but obviously like he wasn't about to I I'm not I'm not in disagreement with the moves yeah I just don't like how it was executed I just I think we heard you I just don't I just don't feel like it was earned it none of that was earned did you feel like it was earned I didn't feel like it was earned I didn't feel like it was earned I feel like it just happened. And like Bonnie getting superpowers

was like the biggest sign that there's a problem with the show. That was not earned. The show didn't build up to Bonnie. It didn't build up to even the grandma having powers. It built up to, everything was built. But they're all related. They're all blood.

So that's the loophole, you know? So get to that in season two. Why are you doing that right now? No, but they only get that power in times of a dire need. Like, I don't think they're going to just permanently walk around their town being like, whoo, look at my gluing hands. Pichara.

You know, what? These are arbitrary rules, okay? They are made up rules. They don't matter. Just change the rules then and make season two where the family gets involved. And then Shazam. Why did you find out in your chair? Because I'm so frustrated.

I'm just like I'm beside myself with this. Like, it was fine. It was. Another mid show. It was fine. It's, I would never come back to this. Like, there's no. no reason to come back to this show at all it was like it's at best it was like a time pass like

and it should be so much more than that especially with consideration to what it's trying to do right they had the had the message at the end of like thank you to the i don't want to say anything wrong so i'm just going to say it was a thank you message right to the chok ton question yeah and i'm like okay they deserve better is all i'm saying they deserve better than that that's all i'm getting at you get one shot at this you know and you well i would be curious to know you know if if anyone who watching or listening to us, who is actually from the Choctaw Nation or is a Native American?

Like, how do you feel about the representation that was shown here? I think this is the problem with representation. It's like you're so preoccupied with being respectful, you forget to tell a story. But, like, there was a story. It was about, like, you know, honoring your ancestors

and your ancestors are always there for you. And then sometimes ancestors have magical powers. It had a premise. and it had a trajectory story is as debatable okay

but you know what okay fine maybe story wasn't super whatever I liked a lot of the characters you know like I liked Henry I liked biscuits

how did you feel about this is the last thing I want to touch on and I've been feeling it the entire time every time they show it I'm just like they cave from the first episode

ugly oh you being for real or are you making fun on me. No. Go ahead. I'm being... Okay, you're being honest. Okay. Is that your feeling? No, no, no. Yeah. I just didn't feel like there was much. Like, I'm like, that's it. Even the ceiling was low. I'm like, this looks like an apartment in Los Angeles. It doesn't feel like much. It wasn't giving me, like I wasn't honestly too super impressed by it. That looked underwhelming for me. For what it represents, it didn't feel all that magical, you know, and so... It was kind of like, I don't know,

lo-fi Dormammu or something like that. Like, knowing that there's a Native American thing, It's like, really, this is your first run out with that, right? Like the what if thing, yes, that's the first one because it came, it was released first, but it was animation. This is your first live action. I just wanted this to do for Native Americans what Shang Chi did for Asians. That's it. And I just don't feel like they did that. I felt like the quality of Shang Chi is full.

Well, Shang Chi is a feature film. So what? Out the gate, you know, with Tony Long in the fight scene? Oh my God, are you kidding me? Yeah. Like, that was beautiful. Just that alone. That by itself was better than everything in this show.

Okay? That alone. Anything you want to talk about, whether it's the acting, the costume, the color, the way it's shot, the way it's edited, the music, all of it, better than the show. That's not good. This show deserve better. That's what I'm saying. Okay. You know what I mean?

I can get on board with that. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't, honestly, I didn't really love the cave. If they did toned down, like, the psychedelic colors or something like that. I don't mind that. Go ahead. Sorry. Sorry.

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for letting me speak, Jabby Koeh. Yeah. If they had just turned that down a little bit, maybe. Yeah, there's just something about it that I was like, eh, just coming across is kind of weird. I think one thing would have fixed it. Just one thing.

I don't mind the psychedelic colors. One thing. Just raise the roof. Like... Oh, to give it a sense of, like, expansion. Yeah. That's all you needed to do. It was just such a claustrophobic space

And maybe that was the point No That's what they were going for But no what they were going for Was cheap What they were going for was the lady Saved everybody like oh she stopped it And then everyone was safe

It's like it wasn't that high Like it's like if I don't know I feel like that whole thing was done In this most simplistic way possible If it was like a really massive Like almost like a Greek hall Or something like that And she was like protecting people

And whatever you know what I mean Like it was underwhelming It wasn't very epic That's it just raise the roof up Obviously, that introduces a lot more complexities in how you execute it, but that's more interesting. Anyway, I've said my piece. You close it up. I'm done. We're done. Thank you for watching, for listening to us rant about the show. Let's know your feelings in the comments below.

Keep it nice. See you next time. Keep it nice. Have some spice. Have some spice. Be kind. Rewind. I'm a charicook. This is... Kermudgeon Koea. Ciao. Peace out.