Cinepals - Killers of the Flower Moon Movie Review

Episode Date: October 31, 2023

Jaby and Achara review the latest Martin Scorsese drama starring Leonardo DiCaprio, Robert De Niro and Lily Gladstone in a movie covering a string of murders of the Osage during the 1920s. We give our non-spoiler thoughts as well as some light spoilers at the end of the episode. 

So I gotta start this off with a disclaimer. I am a huge Scorsese fan. He is one of the most influential directors for me personally. So there is a huge degree of bias in this review, and I have to admit that at the front so that people understand where I am coming from. Goodfellas is one of my all-time favorite films. I love The Departed.

In general, I love Scorsese films, and I always look forward to it. Like so many people who probably watch this channel, many of you guys are Scorsese fans. And so I just need to get that out of the way before we go into our feelings about Killers of the Flower Moon, which was fucking boring.

So, no, I'm just joking around. It wasn't boring. I just wanted to have a misdirect for the opening. So it was a long movie. It was three and a half hours. Yeah, I'll tell you what, though. It was a long film. Yeah.

So Charle, why don't you give us a short, non-spoiler rundown of just like the general idea of what people will encounter in this story? What do you mean? Like a synopsis? Yes. So it's basically about some murders that happen in the Osage Nation. There we go. Okay. I guess that's as ambiguous as you can get.

Yeah. So what guided me through this film for the three and a half hours, what kept me going was more than anything was the acting in the movie. because even the directing style is not necessarily what I have come to associate with Scorsese. The energy wasn't quite what you would typically find in something like Wolf of Wall Street or Goodfellas or The Departed. Like the way the camera moves, there's a certain energy to it. And I feel like for three and a half hours, it would have helped if Scorsese kind of leaned into his traditional style of moving that camera around. But what kept me hooked was the acting more than anything else. I know if you're watching a bunch of killers of the flower moon,

you're going to hear different sides of the feelings, right? Because I watched Jeremy John's review and he loved it. He found it riveting for three and a half hours. He's like, if I stepped away for even a minute, I would have missed something because he's like, I had to go to the bathroom and I held it in. And then I listened to someone else's review whose name I can't remember, I apologize. But he said something very interesting that I identified with. He goes, this three and a half hour good movie had a three hour great movie in it.

I'm phrasing it badly. But you understand what I'm saying? No, yeah, it was definitely long. And here's my thing. I feel like the story is very important. The things that happened, I was shocked by. I was appalled and I was interested in the story. However, I feel like either it could have been made a little bit shorter

or it could have been made longer and just turned into a miniseries. I would have watched that. So for me, when a chart told me that in the car, right, I had a different perspective on it. I didn't really feel like this was a story. I feel like this was a series of interesting events because a story, generally speaking, will take you through plot twists and surprises and stuff like that.

There were really no surprises in this movie. You know exactly what's going on from the word go. And it doesn't really shock you in terms of things changing. It's like, I guess it's shocking in terms of what the characters are going through to a certain degree. Yes. But there's not a lot of change. over the course of three and a half hours.

It's a lot of the same. And I'll get more into that in our spoiler section, but it's a lot of the same beats repeatedly throughout the film. And like I said, what kept me engaged was just the powerhouse acting between Leonardo DiCaprio, Robert De Niro, and Lily Gladstone.

And the entire cast in general did a fantastic job of bringing this to life. The sets, the set design, Scorsese, you know, got a $200 million budget for this movie between Apple and Paramount. And it shows, man, like, it really feels like you're in this world. And I enjoyed that aspect of it.

That's one of the things I look forward to with something from Scorsese is you're going to get invited into a thing that it really transports you back in time. Yeah. And for me, like I do have a great interest and fascination with First Nations Native American culture. And so, like, watching it be represented that way on the screen in a way that I, obviously like I'm coming at it as an outsider but I felt like it did feel authentic and at the beginning of the movie Scorsese has a little blurb where he says you know how important this movie is to him and I think there was some text or something that said like oh you know we took great pains to make sure that we were being as authentic as possible and like I really felt that

and it was just so fascinating to watch how these people lived and and what they were going through and their experience of the world at that time. Yeah. And so like I said, the acting was very, very strong, and that alone makes the film very, very much worthwhile. It wouldn't surprise me if there is a whole slew of Oscar nominations for this, including all three of our main actors. Again, Leo, Robert De Niro, and Lily Gladstone, all three of them deserve nominations.

It's very strong. And for me, I feel like Lily Gladstone was so, so strong, so powerful, because she's up against two actors that we know so well as being great in their field. Yeah. And every time that she was on screen, I was like, this woman is riveting. She is strong. She's powerful. She's regal and calm.

And like, she gave an amazing performance, I thought. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I thought it was pretty awesome. You had some interesting comments about the music. And you said that you weren't as much of a fan of the music within the film as you were in the trailer. Yeah. Okay, so the trailer sold me on something and it did a really good job. And I thought that the music from the trailer, like it was like really rousing. It had like this drumbeat that was just so powerful. It felt like a pulse. And then when I came into the movie, I was like, I see echoes of that. Yeah, yeah.

Or I hear echoes of that. But it didn't really move me as much as I was expecting it to because that was the one thing that I thought, oh, wow, like the trailer. music was so amazing, the music in the rest of the film's got to be at least at that level. But it was just like, okay. I think that it's okay to say what I'm about to say, and it's not really spoiling anything in the movie. But the majority of the focus of the film is Leonardo DiCaprio and Robert De Niro, more than Lily Gladstone and her tribe. Yeah.

Much more. And I understand why, I suppose, because they are like the stars of the film. And so it's like, that's probably predominantly what people are coming in for. It's like Scorsese himself is also a star, so to speak. Yes. You know, and so, but still, like, those are the actors that are probably bringing butts and deceits more than anyone else. You know, Lidly Gladstone is not as known as Robert DeNaro or Leonardo DiCaprio.

No. But even so, it's like, you know, this is supposed to be a story about a tribe that went through a lot. I'm trying to be careful of what I say here, but they went through a lot, right? And we are not really going on their journey. as much as we're going on the journey of Leonardo DiCaprio and everything his character is doing with relation to that.

Does that make sense? Yes. And I do wish that the film balanced itself out in such a way that it didn't feel like it was so heavy on Leonardo DiCaprio and Robert DeCaprio but more some of the other characters involved. Yeah. Including at one point the FBI.

It's like I wish that, you know, that part of the film came in sooner. I wish that like that was more somehow arranged in such a way that it felt like that was more active. Yeah, and just to be clear, I don't think they were the FBI yet. I think this was the case that made them the FBI because they didn't, they weren't like, hey, we're the FBI. Well, they didn't say FBI out right.

They said Bureau of Investigation. Yes. But in any case, I would like to get into some of the spoilers, which, you know, I don't even know if our spoilers are that much, but I don't want to ruin the film for anyone who's like, I don't want any, you know, whatever. I don't want to know anything at all. So what did you think? This would be the section to bow out and, yeah, so we're just going to get into some spoilers now.

If you're still here, that's on you. So the big comment I have with regards to, you know, spoilers is it didn't feel as much of a story to me as much as it just felt like I was watching this Native American woman be mentally and physically tortured for three and a half hours. It was difficult. You know, and it's like, I understand from one perspective, like maybe that's the point. is what this person is going through and experiencing her pain with her and experiencing the frustrations like with Wolf of Wall Street for instance

you're supposed to get angry when you watch that movie it's supposed to like make you frustrated with what's going on in the world and perhaps this film is aiming to do something similar where it's designed to make you frustrated at the atrocities happening here that Leo's character that Robert DeNaro's character is doing yeah to like the atrocities

from people who said that they, in the case of Ernest Burkhart, Leonardo DiCaprio's character, who said that he loved his wife. And that's a complicated thing, because I do think he did love her. But he was straight up murdering, or while he didn't do it himself. It was close enough. It was involved. He did. He did one person at least.

Oh, yeah. And so, yeah, he's like straight up murdering and involved in the murders of her family members. And then William Hale, Robert De Niro's character, is like, I love this community. You know, he's like a important part of the community. And yet he's the mastermind behind all of it. It's gross. He's a wolf and sheep's clothing, essentially. It's disgusting.

Yeah. And again, their performances are stellar. Yeah. Like, Robert Jennera still kills it at 80 years old. Like, he's got a great line in the movie that I want to steal. He goes, look at me like what I'm saying. bang makes sense. I love everything he does in this film. You know, and, you know, to Scorsese's credit, he went very unscoresy in terms of the way he shot this, like I said earlier. And that

helped in, to a certain degree, with allowing us to just enjoy the performances that are happening, almost like a stage play. Because, you know, it's literally like the most basic, rudimentary way of shooting scene work. You know, you have your over the shoulders. And it's just letting this play out with the performances between the two. And Leonardo de Capra, this might be his best role to date in terms of just being this guy that you're like you're trying to have empathy for because he's your lead he's your protagonist but you're seeing what he's doing and he's awful and you kind of hate him yeah because there were moments where i was like i understand where he's coming from like he's in a difficult position he's he's got his uncle who's like overbearing

and he's kind of afraid of him and stuff and he's telling him what to do and so he's like okay I'm going to do it. But on the other hand, I never once doubted the love that he felt towards his wife. Like, he genuinely loved her. But at the same time, I'm like, how can you do this to her? At what point do you, like, have a backbone and tell your uncle, no. Yeah. It's not often that you follow a character that is kind of dumb.

That goes completely against the rules of screenwriting, right? Because the rule is supposed to be that you're following a character that's competent. And our main character is not at all competent. No. And it makes you quite frustrated. But more than witnessing what's happening to the Osage people, you're supposed to also take with it like just an analysis of our modern day and how things are happening, I think. I feel like it's always supposed to be analogous to things happening at the, you know, in our current state of affairs. You know, just the way a small group of people will take advantage of a lot of people. And it doesn't have to be Native Americans. It can be literally anyone including their own ethnicity. You know what I mean? I feel like the Native Americans were, in a way, the minority in this, you know, like everyone was trying to go after their riches. No, in the film, yes. No, absolutely. In the story, that is what's happening.

I agree with you 100%. I'm saying that just from an analogy standpoint, I feel like you can make this analogous to anything in life. That's happening right now. Right. So just be careful of who's around you and like what their intentions are because they might not always be the best. Well, at one point, it makes it very clear that we are dealing with the Masonic Order. And that's crazy to me that Scorsese went there. But it's part of history.

I mean, George Washington was a Mason. A lot of presidents were Mason, including George Bush. I imagine both senior and W. And so there's this whole conspiracy around, you know, the masons and the control they have. And so to have that built into this movie was like kind of shocking to me. I was like, whoa. And Robert De Niro, he straight up says, I'm a 32nd degree Mason, like,

and that has supposed to have an effect on, like, what's happening in the story, et cetera. I'm not going to get too much into that because it's not that important. But that was just, like, wild to me, you know? As someone who's been kind of following the masons and their relationship to government and world order and all that stuff

since I was a kid, like, that was wild. And I was like, oh, cool, okay, interesting, you know. I really enjoyed stuff in this movie. You know, at the end of it, someone told me, Yeah, that's a one-time watch. I enjoyed it, but that's a one-time watch. And I'm like, you know, for me, when Goodfellas comes on the screen, if I'm watching, if it's like on TV, I have to watch it.

I just have to watch it all the way through. Same with a lot of Scorsese films. This one, I feel like it could have that effect with me over time. I was going to say, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think leaving the film, I was like, whoa, that was long. Yeah. And it, once again, the same kind of feeling that I had about the Irishman was that, oh, this feels like a hangout movie, but like a period hangout movie in a way where it's like we're just in the lives of these people and watching these events unfold.

And like you said, because we already know who the bad guys are from the start, it's like we're just watching everything play out and it's like horrendous at points. But yeah, I mean, I think it is a really great piece of cinema. It's beautiful. The acting is stellar. And so, yeah, maybe with time, I'd be like, you know what? I want to revisit this. I do feel like you're going to have two sides of this. It's like, you're going to have the people who are like, oh, my God, it's the best thing ever.

And then other people are going to be like, yeah, that was long and unnecessarily long and boring. It was a movie. Yeah, I feel like it's going to kind of hit a lot of the different feelings. And so I'm fully prepared for that to happen in the comments. But what I'm trying to get at is I love Scorsese. But it seems to me that he. is surrounded by people who are not telling him, yo, you need to cut this down.

You know, I don't know if it's Thelma Schoonmaker or the other producers involved, but someone needs to tell him, like, you can make this shorter, it'll be really effective. Yeah. It doesn't need to be three and a half hours. I like the Irishman.

I know you weren't as much of a fan, but I did feel like that could have been a shorter movie. It didn't need to be that long. And so it kind of concerns me when I see that kind of stuff, and I'm like, you know, like... Or is it just that directors are getting more self-indulgence, in their own old age. And they're like, well...

I don't think Scorsese has ever been self-indulgent. I think that as he gets older and, like, he's Scorsese. Yeah. People are more afraid to tell him, yo, like, you got to trim this dude. Like, no one is telling him no. And that's a little bit concerning. At the same time, it's like, you got the director's cut in theaters. It's just like, I walk out of that and I go, you know, Citizen Kane was two hours.

So that's one of the greatest movies ever made. That doesn't need to be three and a half hours long. James Cameron's first cut of Terminator 2, I think, was three, three and a half hours, you know. And there is that cut that's out there. But the theatrical cut was like between 130, 150 minutes. You know, it doesn't, I feel like there's a more effective shorter movie here. But we got the director's cut. And so that's what's out there.

And I hope people watch it. I hope people enjoy it. And I hope that people like learn something about not just the Ostage Nation, but about themselves while watching the film, you know? So thanks so much for hanging out. Abby Kauai, this is Achara Cook. Peace out.