Cinepals - SHOGUN 1x8 "The Abyss of Life" Reaction & Discussion!

Episode Date: April 9, 2024

Shōgun, a new and adapted historical drama series, has arrived, depicting war and power in 1600s Japan. Shōgun stars: Hiroyuki Sanada (The Wolverine, 47 Ronin, Bullet Train, Mortal Kombat (2021), & John Wick: Chapter 4), Cosmo Jarvis (Calm with Horses, Lady Macbeth, & Persuasion), Anna Sawai (F9: The Fast Saga, Pachinko, & Girl/Haji) & Tadanobu Asano (Thor, Battleship, & Mongol: The Rise of Genghis Khan) Join our Patreon www.Patreon.com/JabyKoay for the full length reaction to this show and many others ans subscribe to our YouTube channel for the cutdowns www.youtube.com/@cinepals SOCIAL MEDIA ~CinePals~ Twitter, Instagram, & TikTok: @TheCinePals ~Achara Kirk~ Twitter & Instagram: @AcharaKirk ~Jaby Koay~ Twitter & Instagram: @JabyKoay

We're watching Shogun Season 1, Episode 8. Thanks for joining us again. Here we go. Oh, geez. I was kind of hoping for a flashback of him talking to Hiramatsu, whatever his name is. Yeah. Of like, yo, this is the planned dog. You got to go.

You got to make it look real. I was kind of hoping. But I don't think that was even fully necessary. because even earlier on when he sent the priest back to Osaka Hiramatsu knew he knew exactly what was going on like they don't even have to use words

they are on each other's level and so whether or not he had a conversation with Hiramatsu and said like hey is what I need you to do for me or whether it was Hiromatsu just knew exactly what the plan was that he was gonna like I get you yeah I get you I just you know there's a part of me that's like but what if he didn't know and he just like

you know yeah that's there's also a part of me that asked that same question like what if he just didn't know because there was something that Toronaga said where he was like the Anjin and Hiramatsu are like gosh hawks I don't know exactly what those are

assuming they're like a specific type of hawk right their behavior is predictable so maybe it was just that he knew exactly what moves they were going to make because he can read people really well. Right. That was a powerful episode. It was. I feel like this episode really showed us who a lot of these people were. Yeah, I mean, I think that's, well, that's the whole point, isn't it? Yeah. It was very hard hitting everything going on in the episode. It was just like,

dang, all the deaths had a lot of impact. In previous episodes, we've actually seen more deaths slew a whole bunch of people. Right. But they didn't carry that same weight. Yeah, exactly. So when the first wife died, that was the death that like kind of like shook me a little bit just because we saw something in her face for a moment and it's not as if anyone else could see her. Yeah. That was just an intimate moment of her own where she felt something

and then she put it away. And I'm like, oh, that's fascinating because I've never seen that. See, I love that you interpreted it that way. For me, I was like, because for me, I feel like every single time we see Lady Oshiba, she is putting on a show.

Every emotion that we see on her face is a, carefully crafted so that you know she's never showing how she truly feels and so she always comes across as this like mild gentle meek lady she always says the right things anytime Ishido's like trying to put the moves on her she's all like oh no it's only because i was reflecting the greatness of my late husband and blah blah blah like she says all the right things i thought that in that moment that kind of coldness that came over her face was more a glimpse of how she really felt. So I guess we will see in later episodes which one is more accurate.

Yeah. Yeah, but she is fascinating to me. Like, I've heard people say in the comments that the actress playing her is like a really famous Japanese actress who's kind of well known for playing complicated characters. And so it totally makes sense that they cast her to play this role and she's doing a really great job because she's so hard to read the scene of Lord Toronaga finally coming to the place where they cremated his son. The deaths are really meaningful because they're super valuable at this point because they're very strategic. His son didn't realize when he died,

obviously, like that was an accident, but actually he had given his father a great gift because he had bought him 49 days of extra time, of time to plan to, you know, get himself together and get his crew together and figure out a way forward. And then Hiromatsu's death was also a gift because it's showing to the enemy like, oh, he really is feeling defeated. Like he can put up this front and make them believe that he's weaker when in fact he's just plotting and planning. Well, I'm wondering about Blackthorn. Maybe Blackthorn's not showing all of his cards, you know? That's possible. when Blackthorn kind of got up in a tantrum and it's like,

this is the great Lord Toronaga and just kind of, you know, allying with the guy who is the one who's allied with everybody, you know. Yabushige. Yabushige. It makes me wonder if Blackthorn is basically like Toronaga, just a white version. I don't know. If he's turning into like the white version of Taranaga,

that would be interesting because I think that would be an, arc, right? Because from what we've seen of him from the very beginning is that he's always been a guy who, while he is quite smart and he is a survivor and he can think on his feet and knows what to do to kind of get out of a pickle, he also is a lot more emotional and like just reckless than Taranaga. He kind of just goes with his feelings and does the thing and And he's very different from his Japanese counterparts. Sure. And so if he has become more like Taranaga and just more cunning,

then that would be an interesting arc because we've seen how in this episode he's really changed. And it's been a gradual change, right? And we've kind of gotten used to seeing him in the Japanese clothes. And, you know, he's really learning the language and all of that. But in this episode, you really see the difference when he comes up against his old, like colleagues, shipmates,

yeah. And they're just dirty and they're gross and you're reminded like, oh, he was like them. He started out like them.

But he's been schooled. Exactly. About Japanese culture. And now he's like, he's somewhere in between, you know. It was interesting what he said to Yabu Shige

where he's like, I'm not like, I'm not like my countryman anymore. But I think that his plan was always to help out Japan though. Even when he was going

to get back his countrymen it seemed like his intent was to help them out although to be fair just to clarify in case people are like going to jump down our throats they're not his countrymen i know they're dutch but the you know the people his crew his crew yeah right but it seemed like his plan was always to get them back and help out you know like it didn't seem like he was just going to fly off into the sunset right but his his goal has always been to take down the catholics sure that's always been his main goal. It just so happens that perhaps he can help Torunaga in the meantime. Right. You know, I guess there's there's a recognition or at least he says so where he and Yabu Shige are kind of those people who they're always looking out for a way to survive and a way to get their goals

achieved. I always had thought that when he encounters his men again, it wasn't going to be pretty. I just didn't know exactly how. I thought that they were going to be. like, I don't know, emaciated or something and like, you know, food deprived, sleep deprived, tortured something. Yeah. And like, he's going to kind of try to save them and they're going to be like, where have you been all this time just living it up? And to find out they've been living it up was fascinating.

And but the idea that it wasn't going to work out, I always kind of sense that that was going to be the outcome. Yeah. I mean, I don't know how exactly they're living it up because it costs money to buy sake and and get hoers. but that's everything yeah

and so I don't know what they're doing they don't seem very happy about that though at least that guy was kind of like I just want to leave why did you leave us here there was still that sense of you know you abandoned us and we're not happy well he certainly didn't want to go with Blackthorn

I mean Blackthorn was like I came to get you guys out and he's like screw you because you know according to him like he's wearing the clothes of the enemy as it were Well, he sees Blackthorn as someone who's always chasing his own ambition and not really caring about who ends up getting hurt as a result. Yeah.

But it's like that's, but that was still your door. And you said no to it. So, you know, you've chosen to stay with the whores, you know, like that's what you decided on in that moment. It's a little bit sad that, you know, he didn't get to talk to the rest of the crew. But it just seemed like he didn't really have a choice. He had to balance. It's like he already knew before he even spoke with the guy like, oh, you're not my people. I have no people.

I'm literally just an island right now. Yeah. So. Can relate. Yeah. He's definitely in an awkward spot just because he's been like, he's gotten the opportunity to see who he was in a way that most people don't get to. Yeah.

You know? Exactly. I'm sure it was like a shocking revelation to be faced with that and be like, oh, gross. I used to be like that. That's so weird. Do you feel bad at all for, I'm going to mess up. his name? Buntaro. Yeah. What's his name? Yeah, you got it right. Oh, okay. Yes. And no, yes. Because I feel bad for him because obviously, like, he's in a situation. He's really trying with his wife. And it's

almost like, it's too little too late. You know, he didn't, he didn't give her the thing that she wanted, which I'm glad he didn't because then we wouldn't have her, obviously, but he just doesn't get it. He doesn't get the just the depth of her I don't know if it's hatred or indifference or just coldness towards him and he was really trying to like reach out and it just wasn't working and then to have his father die and basically he had to kill him was another awful thing that he had to do but then the thing that his father said to him because you know he said oh I'm going to go with you and his dad was like no and now you know what it feels like to be denied it's just like a double because that's exactly how mariko must have felt you know to ask for the thing and then

have her husband who's the one person who has the power to say yes or say no to her request say no you can't do that now buntaro finally knows yeah but it's just wild because he he thought he was saving her life and this whole time she just kind of hates him yeah this is just a big lesson in communication but I guess it's a different era and it's also Asian culture you know Asian culture it's not exactly spoken on the surface

you know generally speaking no usually like eight layers deep behind a fence well that's why I found like all of the use of haiku so beautiful in this episode because like all the emotions that they're not able to outwardly express. They're saying that through the poetry. So like even Buntaro's kind of awkward attempts at the haiku

and obviously Mariko is like so good at it, you know, he was trying to be sweet and romantic to her and she was being polite and all, but it wasn't working out. I wondered if at all she was going to give in and it was going to be this awkward love triangle situation. no well obviously no but like it just seemed like that's potentially where it was headed because he was trying so hard he's trying so hard i felt bad for him i felt bad for him because i recognized that he was trying so hard but i also knew just looking at her and from her previous actions

throughout the show it's like she's she's immovable there is no way i would have felt bad for him more if he didn't mess her up that's That's got me messed up. Like, dude, it's, like, I want to feel empathy for you, but, ugh, you made her face bleed? Like, God dang, man. And I'm sure she's not forgotten that either, so. A spider never forgets. A spider never forgets.

That's why you make sure you kill them. They'll go and hide somewhere and get you while you're sleeping. You're crazy. Yeah, this is a powerful episode. There was a lot going on emotionally. It was one of those things where I could feel like, okay, this feels like the episode before the episode you know it's like the setup to like the ultimate episode that's kind of what i was feeling this whole time and so when she said i'm ready i thought the episode was going to end there

the fact that it went on a little longer was icing on the cake there were so many parts in this episode where i was like oh they're going to end it here oh no and oh okay they've they've carried on they're showing like the funeral of of the lady okay cool they're ending it here right oh no no no no there's more i was like wow single moment they gave us a little bit extra. I was loving it. You guys, thanks so much for hanging out. I'm Javi Kui. This is Achara Cook. Peace out.