Cinepals - SUCCESSION 4x9 "Church & State" Review & Discussion

Episode Date: March 24, 2024

Jaby Koay and Achara Kirk watch Season 4 episode 9 of HBO Max 'Succession.' Stunning performances all around from Brian Cox, Kieran Culkin, Sarah Snook, Jeremy Strong, Matthew Macfadyen and Nicholas Braun.    You can see our cutdown reaction on https://www.YouTube.com/@Cinepals or join our Patreon for access to the uncut reaction https://www.Patreon.com/JabyKoay   Social Media ~JABY KOAY~ Instagram: @TheCinepals, @JabyKoay   ~ACHARA KIRK~ Twitter & Instagram: @AcharaKirk 

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I know. I was like, oh, no, he's going to get hospitalized for something. He's going to get beat up by a bunch of people. Well, he certainly got hurt. You know how sometimes people are all like, I just want to start a fight with someone because I'm like just so mad at the situation, no? Yeah, I've watched the movie Fight Club many times.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, just like that. Yeah. Just looking to feel something. That was a mixture, it seemed like, because he won the opportunity to look down on someone and, like, offload his. his insecurities and rage onto other people who felt like he could do that too. That he felt more powerful then.

But at the same time, I think he wanted to get hurt. Yes. Like threw himself into them, you know. Into the fray, as it were. I liked this episode. There was a lot going on. The only complaint I have is during Shiv's speech, there was like some crazy The Office-type camera work.

Like, it's there throughout the whole show and it's fine. But like, there was one moment where the camera was like trying to adjust. I'm like, what the fuck is? happening right now. It's not like a mockumentary. That was the one moment that took me out for a second, but other than that, I thought the episode was great. Yeah, I mean, the funeral was just really interesting because I think they did a really good job of showing all the different sides of Logan. And it was also really satisfying to hear from his brother and like finally learn about exactly what happened to his sister and like learn a little bit more about their childhood together

and their past. And so I guess it kind of humanizes Logan in a way because you think about the experience of coming across in a boat during the war, right? And like being five and a half with a four-year-old brother and just trying to be strong and do the right thing and make it work. And then like having the situation with your youngest sister

where you feel blame for potentially making her sick and no one close to you told you. as a child like that's not your fault you know it makes you hard it makes you hard as nails gives you a sense of wanting to be able to control outcomes and situations yeah and should that manifest itself in a person who is nihilistic and crazy enough with him it made him into the person that he is today or like that he was right that he wanted to get out there and like you say control the outcomes and create things and be at the center of everything you know what this episode illustrates though, is that control is all just a weird, grand illusion.

That's the part that's just funny. It's like, you take the biggest empire in the world. It doesn't last forever. Yeah. Control is always this fleeting illusion. Yeah, it's ephemeral. It's like, you know, it could just disappear in a second. They had this whole thing of trying to control everything with who becomes president,

because then that leads to a favorable outcome for them with this deal, only to find out the president is indeed. decaf mode. He's like, I'm the president. I got the power now. F you. Goodbye. I mean, and I feel like that should have been kind of obvious for them because just observing him and the type of person he is and just how unpredictable and wild he is. Maybe they just so desperately wanted him to be in their pocket that they didn't fathom the possibility of like, we might just make him win and he's not an honorable guy. He might just turn around and be like, you know what? I'm the president. So like, ha ha, whatever. Yeah. Well, they just put into office a really bad

dude apparently right. Exactly. But they didn't have any conversation with the other person. Right. They tried. Because he wouldn't. Because he was the honorable candidate. Honorable. Well, yeah. As much as you can be in politics, right? It's all BS. Right. But that's the thing. It's like so because they didn't actually have a dialogue with the other guy and they had a dialogue with this one, they, you know, essentially put him into office. Yeah. Well, allegedly, we've yet to see the outcome and everything. But I like it a lot. The things that makes you think about assuming that you know you're willing to extract that level of conversation from it because

you could just take it purely as drama and leave it at that but there's like deeper levels to it that I feel like are quite thought about in the writing of the show it's it's all psychology right so he was this four or five year old who came on a boat he thought he killed his sister yeah what does that do to a person you know that's a crazy backstory that really feels like it informs the individual you see today or saw before he died It just connects in a way that feels like these are real people that actually exist. Yeah, like going through the funeral scene, I literally felt like I was there with them, you know? And it's just so amazing how well this show has like fleshed out these characters that I feel like I know them.

And so when I watch Roman get upset or when I watch Shiv, you know, her voice start to tremble during the speech and the tears fill up in her eyes, I cry too because I'm like, I feel like I'm watching someone like I know that I know go through a hard time. I don't like to see people, you know, upset. Even if I know that she's not like, you know, a perfect person, but, you know, I still care about these characters. I suppose it speaks volumes about the quality of the writing and the filmmaking if they can get you to feel sadness and empathy for despicable characters. Yeah. But I think that's the thing, though. it's just like in much the same way that you know we can look at logan roy and and there were

definitely many things about him and even like that his family were saying and you know that people say out in this world of of the show right that he was not a good guy he was still you know their father in his own way he loved his family and he loved his kids and and the kids loved him you know, but it's complicated. And so, yeah, I guess in a similar way, it's, like, complicated how I feel about the characters, because on the one hand, intellectually, I can be like, ugh, they're despicable and gross.

But on the other hand, I'm like, I still feel a lot of empathy because they're in pain. Yeah, you really got to read the Steve Jobs book. Why? You just have to. Because, like, I actually, I'm wondering now if that was at all an influence on the writing of this show, because he was kind of an awful person.

But it's undeniable the contributions he has made to the world. It's like, you know, for better or for worse, he has made changes that you cannot put that back in the box. Like, that's Pandora's box. We've opened it and it's here not to stay. Right. And it's like we have a completely different landscape because of him. And there are people who, millions of people who are employed by Apple in some capacity, whether they're at Apple campus or at an Apple store. or they resale or they fix items,

like the economy around that, around everything he's done is undeniable. Now, we're not talking about China and all the crimes against humanity. Like, you know. Right, yeah. All the sweatshop stuff. And like, well, you know,

that's another thing to be discussed. But positive impact or just impact in terms of providing jobs so people can, whatever, like that's undeniable. And so likewise here, you have a character who has done so much and built so much. It's like, okay, yes, he's an awful person.

His soul seems ugly. There's a lot of people employed because of him. And that's crazy to think about. It's like that person built an empire, and so a lot of people have jobs as a result. We can get all weird about it and say, well, those people would have a job somewhere else, presumably, if Apple didn't exist or whatever. Are they happy working for? Sure. There's all kinds of ways to splinter the conversation.

Speaking of splintering conversations, I am surprised the Swede managed to land that deal with the... With Mencken? Tenuous president person. Because I don't think he handled it very well Because he was like mumbling and meandering I'm like, you're losing me And I feel like I know the things you're talking about And you're losing me

But it worked and it worked because of America You know, we'll put an American in office It's like... Right, but I think also what Lucas was saying I guess kind of insinuated this thing of like Well, we'll let you control the narrative Especially when Kendall was talking to Mencken I think there was kind of like a

Yeah, there was a tension between the two of them. And Kendall was trying really hard to be like, no, no, you owe us a favor. And Mencken's like, yeah, no, I don't owe you anything. Maybe I'll consider it, but no. And so I think it's just maybe a better option for him to... It's unwise to go against Kendall, in my opinion, because... But he doesn't know that. Because I feel like he's probably been dealing with Logan a lot, right, this whole time.

he maybe doesn't really know what Kendall is capable of. No, but it's not just that. It's like he still controls ATN, right? And so it's still possible that they uncover those, I don't know. If they could spin the story to make him president, they can spin the story to make him unprecedented. That's all I'm trying to say. Sure.

I mean, and that's what he's trying to do with Hugo and just like, yeah, get out there and spread this story around instead. Anyway, I enjoyed this episode, and hopefully you guys did as well along with us. I apologize for my, you know, I'm Jabby Kauai. This is. Achara Kirk. Peace out.