Cleared Hot - Powered By BRCC - Cleared Hot Episode 34 - Rich Froning

Episode Date: March 19, 2018

The CrossFit Games began on private property in Aromas, California in 2007. Participation and popularity grew rapidly, and by 2010, the Games had moved to the Home Depot Center in Carson, California, and were being broadcast on national television. At the apex of that rise was Rich Froning Rich finished 2nd in 2010, and then dominated the competitive CrossFit world for the next four years. He won the CrossFit Games as an individual competitor from 2011 through 2014, then as a member of a team in 2015 and 2016. Not only did he dominate physically, he paved the way for athletes to truly make a living in the competitive CrossFit ecosystem. He lives in Tennessee with his wife and three young children where he owns the Affiliate gym CrossFit Mayhem.

Ladies and gentlemen, let's get into this. Episode 34. Today is brought to you by Onit, as the previous two episodes were. If you go to Onit, onit.com slash hot. Right now, actually, it's going to land on an alpha brain landing page. It is a neotropic designed for focus and mental clarity. Right now they're doing a special. Like I said last episode, if you sign up for the special,

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And if you know anything about the CrossFit world, his name is going to ring a bell. His name is Rich Froning. I'd say he's a professional athlete. Actually, he is a professional athlete from the CrossFit world. And I would say he probably was the first athlete that really stood out as somebody who could truly make a living doing just CrossFit or coming from the CrossFit ecosystem. And he was able to do that. essentially because he mopped the floor with everybody else he was competing against for

half a decade. I met him for the first time face to face just after he won his first CrossFit games. We were in the tunnel at the Home Depot Center. Got to meet him and his wife and the years after that spent a good amount of time with them at places all over the world, actually. He's an awesome guy. Husband, father, stand-up dude, and don't ever. They'll never go near the guy with a barbell or waits.

Because what will happen is, just like it happened to me many times, you're going to get your ass handed to you, and it sucks. But he is an awesome guy, and it was great to get a chance to talk to him. Here you go. Episode 34 with Rich Froning. Okay, Kathy, west of the smoke. I'm looking at danger close now. I'll tell you what, man.

I'm amazed that you are still just grinding it out and putting in the effort that you are. I mean, we were going to talk 30 minutes before this, but you were saying, hey, you know, you got to do the workout for the open. So I have a feeling you probably just finished a workout. Fill me in on, yeah, fill me in on what you've been up to. Yeah, so today, so I'm actually, we've,

it's been kind of a crazy open season for me. I've, I tore my meniscus back in the fall, or no, sorry, back in the spring week before regionals, had surgery the week after the games. And then it just wasn't getting better. So I've been doing some stem cell stuff. and then I've had some travel. And so I've been doing the workouts actually on Saturday.

And so today, the rest of the team did it. So I just kind of came and supported them. Then I went and swam a little bit, try to just be a little easier on the body, and then I'll make it go tomorrow. But yeah, we're in the middle of the open, and the open sucks. Yeah, so I'll have to, I think between you and I,

we can probably describe it pretty well. Let's just say that the CrossFit games is continuing to grow and it's broken up into three. for those who are not familiar, you're broken up into three parts. There's the online, I would say, accessible to, I mean, if you have an internet connection, access to the equipment necessary, it's accessible to you. Then from there, they rack and stack. I don't remember the exact numbers. What is it? Top 50 men, top 50 women, top 50 women, something like that? They kind of changed it, and they've changed up the regions the last couple of years, but it's basically top 40 men, top 40 women, top 30 teams in each. Now they have super regionals and there's eight super regionals across the world. Now you compete in the open as an individual, but based off your ranking, you make the determination as to whether or not you would want to go to regionals as an individual or a team, though, right? Well, yeah, basically you, you know, you start out this season. Everybody's an individual, and then you, after the open, you decide whether you want to go individual or team.

You can, even if you, like so, you know, last couple years, obviously I've made it as a, could have made it as an individual, but I've done team for the past three years now. this will be my fourth year. So regional, sorry, so open to regionals after regional. Obviously, there's limited slots largely based off of the podium. Podium finishers, they used to go out to the Los Angeles area, the Stubhub center that became, what did it become? No, it was Home Depot that became Stubhub, became, I don't even remember. I don't even know now.

Yeah, it was essentially a tennis court in a soccer field. We'll leave it at that. And then now we're in Madison, Wisconsin. And to give people some context, I don't know how many people, I don't talk about CrossFit very often on the podcast, even though I don't shy away from it at all. I think I've talked to bridges and steel. But other than that, if it comes up, it comes up. But for people who may not be familiar with who you are in the architecture that we just laid out, the open, the regionals in the games, I am going to say for you, that you dominated that world for quite some time. I mean, you won the games four years in a row, back to back to back to back.

Yep, that's four. And I got to watch it as a spectator. And it was, I got tired watching you work it out. That's the only way I can describe it. It was freaking exhausting. And that's why I said, like, I'm amazed that you are still, you're just in there putting in the work. Actually, I got a ton of questions for you, too.

The stem cell thing is interesting. And the meniscus injury, would you, I mean, the movements, if you're not familiar with CrossFit. there's actually no unique movements that the CrossFit program created. It's kind of a... Nope, stole everything, basically. Yeah, well, I mean, they just, they used things that were available. I mean, I used to like...

The best pieces of everything, I think, and then made it into their own. Yeah, I used to like to tell people at seminars that I created the ring pushup, and occasionally people would actually believe me. It's like, no, I'm joking. The point being that it's, you know, there's movements that come from all of these different arenas, whether it's, you know, there's some endurance movement. there's obviously strength and powerlifting movements. And then there's a ton of gymnastic stuff as well, too.

But you do a lot of them is the point I was getting to. And do you think that the meniscus injury was from how hard you've been going for so long? Yeah, you know, I kind of, we've had this question a lot and talked a lot about it. You know, what a lot of people see CrossFit as is they see the games. And what I do, I feel like is a little bit different than what, you know, I have a gym. I have an affiliate CrossFit Mayhem in Cookville. And the day-to-day, like, you know, everybody wants to talk about how dangerous CrossFit is. CrossFit's not dangerous. Is it more dangerous than, you know, getting off your couch or doing whatever, probably, but at least you're doing something versus where what we're doing is it's a sport. It's my life. It's what pays the bills. It's what provides for my family. It's like playing NFL football versus playing flag football. There's a huge difference. And I think when you start, you know, messing around at the margins of your, you know, your genetics and all that stuff, you're going to, you're going to hit, hit a wall every once.

So it's what we talk about in the level ones, which you used to coach, where you just, you're going to hit the wall every once in a while, like in NASCAR. If you want to push the, push the envelope and go a little bit faster, you're not always going to be perfect. And I don't know if it came from that. You know, I had a little bit of tendonitis in my other knee, so I don't know if I was favoring that knee or I had a little shoulder thing. I think it's just the perfect storm of all of it. And I mean, like you said, or like I said, when you're pushing to the limit all the time, that stuff's going to happen. Yeah, I think you made a really important delineation.

And I used to get it all the time when I did work for CrossFit, even though when I actually worked for the company, I would say the games were probably maybe a little bit earlier in their trajectory. So it maybe didn't have the podium that it has now or the viewership that it has now. So I would say even now, it's more so confusing for people because that's what they see on national television. That's what they see a lot of the times that it's being promoter. That's where the eyeballs seem to fall. But there's a huge difference between somebody like yourself who, I mean, it's, I don't want to speak for you, but I would say you probably consider it to be a lifestyle. Like it has to be very close to the core of what you decide to do for your day-to-day activities because you are competing in it versus. is the individual that would go to your affiliate, right, CrossFit Mayhem. And they're going there

because they want to fill in the blank. I mean, I owned an affiliate and I had everything from people who wanted to pass a fitness test because they wanted a different job to legitimately would say, hey, I just want to look better naked. It's like, okay. Yeah, there's a huge difference. And I will say, I think it's important to point out, too, that, yes, CrossFit can be dangerous, but so can the truck that I drive. And what I find is people want to remove the responsibility of the individual, because if I go and get in my truck and I drive it irresponsibly and I wreck it, that's not the truck's fault. That's my fault. And if I look at a strength and conditioning program and I look at what you're doing on a day-to-day level, and I try to replicate that two weeks into

starting the program and I get hurt, that's not the program's fault. That's me being an idiot. And I think that's lost on most people. Exactly. Yeah, as soon as you, I mean, like you're saying, it's my job. It's what my family relies on. So, yeah, I'm going to push it a little bit harder versus, you know, we have a, we started a class where it's a little bit more geared a little bit more towards seniors and, you know, kind of the people that are intimidated by CrossFit. It is CrossFit. They just don't think it is. We call it a different name. And we have a 76 year old man that does cross, goes to our actual CrossFit class every single day.

Now, he's doing something completely different than what I'm doing. But he's doing it for his health and longevity. versus right now for me, it's my job. Down the road, I'll probably change over, and I will do some form of CrossFit and the methodology for the rest of my life, just maybe not as the volume that we do right now. Yeah, that's kind of the phase that I arrived at as a human being. One of the healthiest things that I did, to be honest,

was stop working for CrossFit headquarters and stop hanging out with people like you in bridges, in spiel. Thanks, man. Yeah, no, as a person, I love you to death. Working out next to you, I want to take a sledgehammer to your toes to make sure you can never walk again. Because I'm not the kind of guy who likes to get cheered on. Like, come on, buddy, you can keep doing it. It's like, get out of my face.

I want to beat you, not be beaten by you. And also, I'm still in the second round and you just finished the six. So I hate you. That's way, just two am raps, man. Just am wraps. We're all finish at the same time. I've actually found that the best way to improve my times and scores is to just count by two. I mean, it's a rapid improvement that requires no more effort and pain.

So it's a structure. We got a group of guys that kind of works out with us in the barn at my house in the barn in the afternoons. And they call their, because we do a charity event every year, mayhem for mustard seed. And they always, their team name is team time cap. And so they're all, you know, middle-aged guys. And they're just in it to, like you said. be fitter and look better naked.

So they always take our scores and you do time and a half is the time cap for the workout whenever they do it. So sometimes double depending on the movements. But, you know, like you said, it's supposed to, it's supposed to. And that's part of the thing that gets me to is people who are doing it just for life and for overall fitness is they make, they make it an added stress. And they get so stressed out about, oh, I got a PR. this or I've got to go, you know, do this. It's like, hey, it's supposed to be fun. Like,

you're supposed, it's supposed to be a stress relief, um, not an added stress. And I feel like a lot of people take that too far in and make it not fun, you know, and add stress to their life where it doesn't need to be stressful. They need to, to enjoy what they're doing and, and use that as kind of an outlet every day. Man, I couldn't agree more. And I was, I mean, I, I had a hard time as a guy always working. out near people who were so much, I mean, better in the physical perspective than I was. And it was actually, it was unhealthy in the respect that I didn't enjoy it. Because that's what I, that's what I found when I actually just started working out of my garage again. And I had to

like talk myself out of the tree. Like, come on down here. Like, okay, it's only, it's only your score in time that matters. And it, you know, it's, it's so easy to get caught up. up in paying attention to what the person next to you is doing and lose sight and focus on the fact that you're actually competing against yourself. The competitive nature of that person next to you, for me at least does. It makes me dig deeper and drive harder, but their performance doesn't actually have anything to do with mine. And it really did take me separating myself from you guys a little bit to find that joy and working out again because you guys are psychopaths. That's what I'm a sec. Well, I mean, and like you're saying, a lot of people put their self-worth into that. And it's like,

don't, you can't do that. You know, I need a day or two every week, you know, training, we train hard. And we have a great group of people here that train hard. And so once or twice a week, I'm just like, all right, I'm going to go to the barn or my basement and do my own thing. That way I'm not pushing as hard and just kind of have fun and do things that I want to do or even, you know, just row or, you know, just different, different stuff like that. But man, if you, you're always caught up and competing and always caught up. And for myself, um, competing and being a competitor as part of who I am, which it sounds like you are too. And so it's hard to disconnect that sometimes. And it's, um, it's been something that I've had to, in other aspects of my life, realize, hey, this isn't a competition. No, that's actually wrong. You're lying to yourself. The true

statement is everything. Everything is a competition. I race my kids. Yeah, when it comes to eating, I'll race my wife in the grocery store. I mean, I have a problem. But yeah, I'll tell people don't do it. And internally, I'm constantly battling myself. Like, it's not a race. Take it easy. Calm down. First for last, right? You know, second place, it's first loser. I mean, come on now. That's right. Yeah. So before I forget, tell me a little bit about this stem cell that you had done, because I've heard other people talking about it. I have no experience with, with it myself, but I was actually researching it a little bit for the nerve damage that I have in my left leg, but I think the time window has passed for me. Yeah, I didn't realize that it had to be

done in a relative pretty close. Yeah, it's got to be done pretty proximate to the actual injury. So just it, I mean, I have almost no understanding of what it actually does, but if you could explain what you had done and then what you've seen from it, that would be awesome. Yeah, so I tore my meniscus, Like I said, the week before regional's last year, I was in the basement, just doing some double unders, some burpees and some ski organ. I just felt something weird. I was like, man, that does not feel good. It felt like a bruise inside my knee. And of course, me being an idiot, I was like, I was on my, it was my last round.

I was like, well, I got to finish, of course. And so, of course, I finish. Well, then after that, I can't walk. I can't put any pressure on my left knee. And I'm like, great. So the next day, luckily, we have some PTs. and a physician's assistant that go to the gym here. So I'm talking to the PT, and she's like,

maybe you just like sprain your MCL or something like that. Let's do some PT stuff, did some dry needling, and it felt a little bit better. So I worked out mostly upper body on Friday, and me being a nut case. It's a week before regionals. On that Saturday, I was like, all right, I got to do something. So we're at my dad's house.

We usually trained up there that time of year. And we're up in the barn. Well, we're going to do a swim workout. So we're doing some dumbbell snatches, swimming across the pond and down and back five rounds. Well, in the fourth round, I go to dive into the pond and I felt something to just let go in my knee. And I was like, ah, crap. And like, as I'm swimming, it just feels like one week before regionals.

One week before regional. So I'm like, crap. I just kind of feel my leg, like almost feels like limp. Well, of course, I have to finish the workout. So I finished round five. And finish, get out of the water. And we're kind of all together, the team. And I was like, all right, Lindy, who's on our team.

Lindy Barber, I was like, tell John your boyfriend to get his head ready because he may have to fill in for me next weekend because like literally right now I can't walk. So I text my guy that's a physician's assistant. He's like, how soon can you get to my office? I was like 10 minutes. So I go to his office. He's like, yep, your meniscus is torn. No doubt about it, whatever. He's like got a couple options.

If you want to compete next weekend, we need to drain it right now and put cortisone in it. I don't know if you've ever had a cord zone shot, but they are amazing. not the most healthy thing, I don't think, but they were amazing. So it got rid of most of the inflammation. I went and met with a surgeon who was the ex-Tennessee Titans doctor. He was like, you're not going to make it worse. You can still compete on it this weekend. We can try to get you in right after regionals. And then you'd kind of have to like push it to get ready, to be ready for the games. So the cortisone shot felt great. Competed at regionals was fine. Talked to him the next week. He's like, if you can make it till the games, he's like, let's wait till after the

games. That way you can kind of, you know, slowly recover instead of having to push it. We had, I think, 10 weeks between regionals and the games. And so did that. About halfway through, I had to get another cortisone shot because the pain and swelling in the left knee was getting pretty bad again. So I did that. Post games, I did just a partial menisectomy where they take out a piece of your meniscus. He smoothed down, smoothed the bones over and stuff like that. And my other knee where I had the tendinitis. He did some cleaning up in that one. So I had both of them scoped. That was in August. And so it just wasn't getting better. This left knee, especially, the meniscus knee. It was like inflamed all the time. I was taking molloxicam, which is

anti-inflammatory, just click and pop and doing all this kind of stuff. Well, our buddy, Ron Ortiz, you know Ron real well. I listen to the podcast with you guys on there. Ron is like the godfather of CrossFit. If you need anything, he knows a guy. And so we were just, I don't even know how it came about. He asked me how my knee was doing. I kind of told him, and he's like, I know a guy that does some stem cell stuff. And I was like, okay. And sure enough, this guy lives in, he has a practice in Miami and a practice in Knoxville. He's from Knoxville, but went to med school in Miami. So kind of has a following here in Knoxville, but also couldn't leave Miami. So he has practice in both. his name's Dr. Goddard.

And so we were talking back and forth, and he was like, I think the stem cells could help you. So he came, he actually was driving through from Nashville to Knoxville, stopped at the house, had an ultrasound machine with him, and kind of scanned my LCL, my MCL, and then that's pretty much. You can't see super deep with an ultrasound. You can see, you know, kind of top layer stuff. And so he was like, I think, I think you're. your MCL and your LCL are pretty loose and I don't know if that's just because there's been so much inflammation in there for so long but I couldn't even do a like the bottom of a squat there was so

much pressure in the back of my knee that the week before I actually had a you have this kind of like everybody has this thing it's called a popliteal cyst well when you get a bunch of fluid in your knee it pushes into this cyst and makes this cyst really big well I ruptured that and so it was just a nightmare well so he was like we need to do what we'll do is we'll do 18 injections on your left knee. And so basically they take the stem cells from amnion. So it's amniotic stem cell. I didn't do the one because you can do a couple different.

You can do bone marrow where they go in and drill or not drill, but pull bone marrow out and then take your own stem cells. They can take it from your fat. And then they also take some from, I'm pretty sure it's from the amniotic fluid. But don't, I mean, well, I guess you quote me on that, but don't. You might want to do some research. on that. Neither of us are experts, so we'll let people figure that one out. Yeah. Exactly. So from, you know, when a baby's born, they, they get the stem cells from there. And so, uh, I did that.

I did, um, one round, about a month, month and a half ago. And then another round the very next week. And then I have my final one on Monday. And so what I've seen is I'm not taking the molyoxicam anymore. Granted, I'm taking a bunch of like, you know, turmeric, curcumin, more fish oil, stuff like that. But the inflammation is a ton better. I can squat before the open workout last week. That was a one rep clean. I hadn't cleaned anything over 275. Last week I cleaned 3.43. So, I mean, I feel like I'm getting better. You know, it's like I get real good. Like I'll take four or five steps forward. I'll take one step back. Four or five steps forward, one step back. So this is, um, the stem cells helped a lot so far. I haven't met or talked to

anybody who hasn't said exactly that, that it has been incredibly beneficial. And it, it, it astounds me that it's only legal in certain areas and for certain things. I don't understand. It has to be monetary base somewhere. There's somebody, that's what my underlying opinion is, is that someone is threatened by that and will lose money if it is wildly adopted. Right. And so I really would, if you, I don't know if you listen to any other podcasts, but Joe Rogan has Mel Gibson on there and a doctor. Did you listen to that one?

Yep. That one made me want to go to Panama like next week. But I talked to the guy that's doing mine and he's like, yeah, we're doing a very similar type route. So he was like, and so what I saw with. the first one is the first one is not super painful. I mean, obviously you're having a needle jammed into your knee. And so he does, I think, three injections on the MCL, three on the LCL, and then four or five, like, in the joint capsule. And so, I mean, it's, it's not a pleasant experience. Then he does some to,

like, numb it before that. But, um, yeah, that doesn't sound like a picnic. No, it's not fun, but I mean, the pain that I'd been living with, I was, it's whatever. You know, I'd rather take that. And if it's going to help me versus, you know, living with every, literally it felt like every step I took from August felt like an ice pick jamming me in the inside of my knee. So, you know, we're making progress from there. So, yeah, so we did two, like I said, the first one, my knee was like super swollen and tight and just it was, it took a couple days to loosen up. The second round was super easy, no pain whatsoever. It was almost back to doing stuff in the next couple days. And then this this next one we'll see, but that he thinks after the third one that we'll see even more improvement

than after the second one. And I saw a ton of improvement after the second one. Are the results that you are seeing or that you are going to see? Are they going to be permanent? Or is this something that you might have to manage for, I don't want to say the rest of your life, but at least as far as your desire to be competitive in the CrossFit space? Yeah, that's what I don't know. I don't know what the, you know, he makes it sound like. I mean, the idea is that the stem cells are, and I think somebody was talking about how they're talking about even not calling them stem cells anymore, but like recovery cells or healing cells or something like that because stem cells isn't even the correct term form anymore. But the idea is that you're actually repairing your body versus, you know, where they're putting in, you know, I've tried the highly erroneic acid, which is basically lubrication in your joint, like synovial fluid. and that didn't really do anything when that only lasts for like six months.

So I'm not sure with the stem cell if it'll get back to you in a couple months and let you know. Well, how's your performance doing in the open so far? You guys are what, three weeks into five? I honestly have, I'm not looking at the leaderboard whatsoever this year just because I've not trained like I wanted to. But our team is doing well and that's really, as long as we qualify, I want to be healthy enough. to where I can compete come regional's come the games is kind of where I'm at right now. I've only done, this would be the first year that I've only done the workouts once. Years past, I've done them multiple times.

This year I was like, you know what, let's just do one time, push it that first time and see what happens. Yeah, I've watched you workout, I would say an abnormal amount for a guy watching another guy workout just based off of working for CrossFit. And it's funny. I've heard people ask so many times, you know, what do you think about performance enhancing drugs? And it's like, that's a bullshit question in my mind. You know, I've heard a variety of bizarre questions.

And when it comes down to me, from being on the outside watching the highest level athletes compete, I almost think people think that you don't feel pain or that the workouts don't hurt you as much as it would hurt myself or anybody else. else who tried them. And I almost think it's more how much can you actually just eat. How much of that pain can you tolerate and keep going? So my question for you is, because like I said, I've seen you, I've seen you grinding it out in front in some pretty large stages. What do you tell yourself when you're just in the trenches of a workout to keep going? Man, I don't know if it's, I heard you and Hughes talking kind of like a lot of people get caught up in what, what they do. And, and, and, and,

and don't really know who they are. But I think it's just who I am, you know, like just the competitive nature of, of, I don't know if it was the perfect storm of my upbringing, you know, my parents being who they are, my faith, and just, you know, everything. And it's, I just don't, it doesn't really, there's nothing really going through my head. It's just don't stop, you know, there's no real, no real profound anything going on up. there. I think it's just like, hey, like you just said, you get to just eat it and keep going and kind of expect that there's going to be pain and expect that it's going to be unpleasant for a little

while, but it'll eventually be over. And, you know, that's, that's, that's kind of what it is. And as as lame as that kind of sounds, there's no real profound secret to it. I think it's just, it's just the perfect storm of all of it, you know, like my parents were super hard workers growing up. made sure we worked hard all the time. If we didn't work hard, they were going to find us something to do. We're super supportive in what we did. But also, it was just kind of like you didn't, there was just no question, you know, never any question about any of that stuff.

I've actually found I had a very similar upbringing. You know, I worked construction specifically masonry with my dad since I was, I don't know, maybe 10 years old. And masonry is not a kid gloves sport. I mean, I was around brick saws and big mixers that were making mortar and jackhammers and all sorts of stuff. And the value that I learned, the value of hard work and that, you know, the things that are the hardest to achieve in life have the most value. I think if you're taught that lesson young, it helps you later on because you end up seeking those environments. So it doesn't actually surprise me to hear that you know, it's not, it's not that you have to like a mantra that you're repeating to yourself.

I would almost say, again, from an outside perspective of watching you and other very high level athletes competing on that stage, you're just really comfortable being uncomfortable. Like, you're seeking that place because you know the benefit that comes from it. And if, I mean, that's, I constantly, and I'm sure you are exactly the same trying to reinforce that to my kids. Because in this day and age where the solution to everything appears to be an app on your phone. that requires no work, I think we're headed in the wrong direction. I think there's so much there to be taught and learned by diving headlong at the things that are the most difficult. Man, it drives me crazy. Phones drive me crazy. I, my, you know, having, now we have three kids. My daughter's three and a half, but, you know, it's like people are kids these days, not kids.

I sound old, but like, it drives me nuts. I, when I was in college, I went to college full time. I worked as a firefighter full-time. Do what? Where'd you go to college? Tennessee Tech. What were you studying? You got to tell the whole story. Exercise science.

Obviously not the super, the hardest degree ever, but I enjoyed it. And, you know, I was getting my undergrad. I worked as a full-time firefighter. They paid my tuition. I worked 24 on, 48 off. If I had class, I went to class, came right back. On the days I didn't work or didn't have class, I worked for one of the guys at the fire department.

either one of the guys was an exterminator, so I killed bugs for a living for a little while underneath houses and crawl spaces, the darkest, dirtiest, nasty places on the planet. Then I've washed and waxed houseboats, which sounds awesome, but it's actually one of the worst jobs ever because everybody else is on the lake going out to have fun and you're washing and waxing houseboats. Just for clarity, I don't think that sounds awesome. I don't know if anybody's going to say, yes, that's the job that I want. But it got, I mean, you're on the lake, which is, it sounds great, but you're, like I said, everybody else is out there enjoying themselves and you're out there on a little, you know, John boat with a ladder and people are going through and wake and you're almost falling off and breaking your neck. But, you know, I worked. And then at some points, I would work to intermereals at night. And so, you know, people complain about not having, you know, money or enough time. And it's like, you can make time. It's people get so caught up. And like, you said, you

being on their phone all the time or their their Instagram and I I'm so over social media. It's not even funny. Well, it's not social or media. No. It's all pitched, right? Everything is pitched on the device like Facebook friends. Well, I don't know most of the people. So no, you're not necessarily friends, but we're connected on Facebook.

And I have found on social media, people are the rudest, shortest, shortest, curtest, like just worst versions of themselves, which you would never want to have in a face-to-face social interaction. And a lot of the things that people put up, it's almost impossible to tell what's true or not. So you can't say it's media either. So we're the most connected we've ever been through all these different avenues, but the most disconnected we've ever been as human beings. Yeah. I mean, you look at anybody, you go to any restaurant and you watch, just watch people.

And people are at the same. I watched, there was an older couple. We were out to eat. And they both had iPads and they're watching a movie, not together, two separate movies. And they're eating their dinner. And how did we get to this point? You know, like I try to. And it's a little bit harder because, you know, I do some stuff and part of my, you know,

not job, but social media, I have to keep some stuff out there to keep, you know, my. It is part of your job. Yeah. Part of my business, you know, part of my job. And so it's hard because at night in the afternoons or in the evening. evening when I get home, I try to put my phone by or on the counter in the kitchen. That way, it doesn't leave there. If I have to go there, like I'm standing up, I'm doing whatever. So it limits my time there. And so I don't catch myself, you know, on my phone the whole time.

It drives me nuts. And now I don't, I don't, my phone is not in the bedroom. I only, my phone that goes in the bathroom at night. And so I try, I've the last, I guess it's been about six months. I've been working on being present wherever I am. And that's been a big part of it is because, I mean, you look at your kids and my daughter's three and a half and, you know, it's funny now, but she has like, every once in a while she'll have a little fake phone or whatever. And she's like, oh, got to have my phone. And I'm just like, man, that is not good that she's already starting that. And so it's, yeah, another thing. Yeah, terrifying about those devices is how quickly they can learn to use them to their maximum capacity absent any training.

Like if you just put an iPad in front of a young child, they've got that thing dialed in and more squared away than most adults in, I'm going to say a day or two. And then it's like, yeah, and then it's like you're saying, it has to go with them everywhere. My daughter is, she's nine now and she's in the same boat. And she just literally wrote Jamie and I a letter. One of her school projects was to write a, what was it? It wasn't an informative essay, but it was an argumentative essay. And her topic was why I need a phone.

Okay. You know, it's, I mean, I'm giving her all the credit the world for the effort that she put in. And, you know, all the arguments were, you know, I need it so I can be able to communicate with you. And so we can always be in contact. And the reality is that that's probably a third of it. And two thirds of it is that she wants to play the My Little Pony app or whatever it may be. And I'm resistant to getting her one because I want her just to still be my little girl. You're right, exactly. Both of my boys have their phones and, I mean, the rule is at nighttime, no videos on your phone. I'm going to say eight days out of the week. I have to go into their bedroom and take their phone because they're watching on their phone. And it's worse than like sugar. I mean, not that I've ever tried crack cocaine, but it seems like it would be worse than like a crack cocaine habit. I agree. 100% agree. And part of it is it's tough, you know, because like kids see other kids on the phone all the time or.

you know, you know, especially having three kids, is like every once in a while you'd like to talk to your wife and sometimes you can't. So you give them the phone and, you know, let them play on YouTube for what a kid's YouTube is the like the dirtiest, darkest place on the play. Like these videos that Lakeland watches like grownups opening toys for kids and I'm like, what is going on? You know, like, but it's, it's, you know, it's kind of our own fault for for creating the monster. It's, but I wish you could kind of go back, but then you're like, how awesome is it to be able to look up something at the click of a button or whatever it is or contact people that you haven't talked to and on the other side of the planet or your parents or whatever? It's, it's tough. I think it just has to be managed.

And that starts at a young age. I'm trying to do the same thing. I mean, I'm not a huge fan of social media and my presence is microscopic in comparison to yours, but I still have to have it as well. but you get caught, you know, like, okay, it's 11 o'clock in night. Why am I checking my email? Like, there's absolutely nothing that's happening right now that cannot wait until tomorrow morning. Until the morning. I agree.

Yeah, I've started to like, you know, to replace that time. Like, I've been trying to read a lot more. And that helps a little bit. But at night, you know, I have my iPad that I read on, but I make sure that there's no social media app. I don't even turn on the Wi-Fi to it at night. It's just has whatever book it is because, you know, the kids are trying to sleep or whatever and the lights are on. Two of our kids sleep in our bedroom. So it's just easier that way.

I have to agree, man. It's, uh, you got to be cautious for sure. And you actually mentioned YouTube and kids watching videos. We, my middle son, he, I don't know how he got there, but he ended up finding a video that was of a very adult nature with sexual content. and for over a year, it really troubled him. I'm glad that he felt comfortable coming to Jamie and I and talking about how uncomfortable it was, what he had found, and he didn't mean to watch it at first,

but then he went back and intentionally watched it a few more times out of curiosity. And you want to talk about the recipe for potentially damaging somebody when they're older. I mean, that was a push of a button that led him down a portal that could have been incredibly dangerous. and I think it actually taught him a good lesson. But who knows what would have happened if it had been a year before that or two years before that, and he wasn't old enough to process the lesson? It's a scary world out there on the digital environment. I cannot imagine having access to some of the stuff that kids have now.

Like if I was that age and had the access that I have now, it would not have been a good thing. I would not be the person I am today. That's for damn sure. No, not at all. Yeah, they're growing up in a tougher time. Well, hell, I'm like four times as old as you are. So you had it easy. When I grew up and when you were inventing the wheel, it was tough.

Carrier pigeons to talk to people. Totally. So what would you do with your life if like just CrossFit ended for you tomorrow? What trajectory do you think you'd go on? Having the past like that I do or no CrossFit ever. Let's just say that you're, that the knee issues are, you know, you're going to come to a point. And hypothetically, let's say tomorrow, the doctor's like, listen, you could continue down this competitive path and you're going to be in a wheelchair in a year, or you could stop now and live a healthy

life and do something else. I guess a better way would phrase it, but if you stop doing CrossFit right now, what would you want to do with your life? Yeah, I don't know. I kind of, obviously I'm in a transition period as it is. So I've kind of been thinking about that. And we're working on some stuff here at the gym, some different programs. You know, I do enjoy programming. I do, I don't coach. quite as much as I used to. I don't mind coaching and I enjoy it most of the time. So that would be part of what I would do probably. But, you know, I kind of like the business side of what we what we have going on here at the gym. You know, we have the podcast that we're doing as well. We have, you know, I kind of help out a little bit with apparel, more just giving

ideas on designs and stuff like that. So I don't mind that type of stuff. But yeah, just running the gym in a perfect world honestly if I would have never found crossfit I would still be at the fire department I do miss that I do really enjoy that actually am applying for our the county department around here is is volunteer so I think I'm going to do that just to kind of get back into that I miss that a lot but yeah I mean I think what we've done here at mayhem is we've got a good thing going We've got a good amount of members, but really good members. And, you know, we run some camps out of here and have some fun, bring people in for weekends. And we don't really, you know, the train with Rich, I don't know what people kind of expect.

Like, it's nothing like a level one. It's literally we come in and we work out hard all weekend and have fun and let people kind of push their limits. But also, we're super, hey, if you don't want to do this, don't do this. If you're not comfortable with that, you know, we'll scale it. and make sure everybody has a good time and gets a good workout in. So, yeah, we've got some things going on here that I do really enjoy. But, man, I don't know. Being a competitor right now is I'm still in that mindset.

And I don't really have to make that decision yet. So I really, I was trying to finish you to you, though. I was curious. I know. I'm actually not surprised. I mean, I knew that you were a firefighter before. And I was actually going to ask you next how you found CrossFit. but I remember I think some of our first initial conversations when we ever first met,

we were talking or I was asking you about the firefighter stuff. And it's, uh, I can understand why you would want to do that for sure. I'm actually, I have considered that option myself, like post-military service. I think I'm just a little bit too old to be going down that route. And I don't feel like going through another selection process and another training. Exactly. But it, but it makes sense to me. So since you brought it up and you were doing it before,

How did you actually find CrossFit? And I mean, I guess I'll ask you some questions along the way that kind of explain how you got to where you are right now. But I mean, what was your very first and initial exposure to it? So I was when I was going to tech and was still a firefighter. I had a professor Chip Pew, who was the head strength and conditioning coach at Tennessee Tech. He was, he taught a class. I think it was called Training for Performance or something like that. And like any coach who teaches, they usually show a lot of videos.

And so he showed us a CrossFit.com video. And I honestly, I think one of the first workouts in which kind of sounds really dumb now that I look at it was a burpee mile. So this dude did a burpee and then a broad jump for a mile. It's not a good idea for anybody listening. And I've never once done it. But it was like, oh, this is kind of cool. And so I wrote, I still have the book where I wrote down like CrossFit.com. And so I started talking to the head strength coach Chip, and he was like, man, you're a firefighter.

There's a lot of military police fire that are doing CrossFit. You should check it out. So went to CrossFit.com and started pulling some workouts back then. I was just doing your normal meathead stuff, the back and buys, chest and tries. And then once every three weeks, I'd do legs and couldn't walk for the other three. I like to call those days the glory days. The glory days. Yeah, that's about right, you know.

And so, you know, I start doing some of that stuff on shift. And then Chip was like, hey, you should look into getting your level one. I'll have an intern spot or a spot open. And back then he ran CrossFit Cookville out of the weight room. And so I went and got my level one in June of 2009. And then from then on, me and my cousin, I came back and Chip was like, hey, the intern that I had leaving is actually going to stay another semester. So me and my cousin Darren actually just started training some people.

And we couldn't call ourselves CrossFit because we couldn't afford the affiliation fee. But we just trained some people out of a gymnastics place that a friend of ours owned. And we started watching CrossFit Games videos from 2009 when Miko won. And we were like, man, we should try some of these workouts. And so we tried the workouts. And obviously we didn't go through anything. you know, the hill sprint or anything like that, but we did some of the workouts and our times were pretty comparable. And I was like, man, we should, next year, we should look into this. And so, um, in 2010, I guess it was like

right after, uh, first of the year, January 1st or something like that, they had, uh, signups for sectionals. And so I signed up for sectionals and my cousin, uh, who was supposed to sign up with me did not. And, uh, so we were on our way to spring break for sectionals. This is before they, the open was, um, Open start of the next year, but that year they did sectionals, which led to regionals, which led to the games. And so we show up and, man, there was like, it looked like a bunch of dudes like Ron Ortiz, which is the largest human being, largest most jacked human being you've ever met. And so I was like, wow, I do not have a chance. So you had to get top 15.

And so I show up and I'm like, well, if I'm not in like the top 20 after day one, we can go ahead and go down to spring break. And so we did the first workout. The first workout was like, and Russell Burger programmed it. So you had to start in a seated position. And it was like sprint 25 yards, 10 power cleans, 10 burpees, sprint down and back, 25 yards down and back. And then it was three rounds or something like that.

So finish it, whatever. And then they had a whiteboard that was the leaderboard, the top 10 or top 15 or whatever. And so we're just kind of sitting there. There's me and Darren and one of my buddies. and we're kind of sitting in the back of my Jeep, and Darren walks over. He's like, I'm going to go check the leaderboard.

And sure enough, he goes, dude, you're in first place. And I was like, no way, not a chance. And sure enough, I was. And then the second event came along. I got second, the third event. I got fourth. So after day one, I was sitting in first place. And I was like, all right, maybe we'll hang out a little bit and see how this goes.

And then I end up winning my sectional from sectionals. I went to regionals, won the regional, and then went to the games. and everybody kind of knows about my rope climb fiasco at the games and got second that year. Was there a fiasco with the ropes? Yeah, you don't remember that? I'm joking. There's a couple questions I would never ask you, and that's one of them right there, because I've literally been there probably 50 times when people are like,

hey, do you know how to climb a rope now? Yeah, I could thank my dad for that. You know, as a kid, we had a rope in the barn, and I climbed it all the time. but there was one time I tried to clamp with my feet. And dad's like, don't use your feet. That's for pussies. And so, yep. That does sound like Rich Froning senior to me, who is one of my favorite, by the way.

Yeah, he's an interesting cat, that's for sure. But, I mean, after that, so you finished second that year. I mean, there was obviously the issue with the rope. You finished second, but then for the next four years, you dominated, I mean, from the open to the regionals to the game. themselves. So, I mean, how consuming was that in your preparation for that level of dominance? I mean, was that just 24-7 what you were thinking about? Yeah, I mean, it's my, it was my life, you know, it was, I woke up every day with the goal to be the fittest on earth. And I sacrificed a lot, a lot of family time, a lot of, you know, vacation stuff and all that,

but I don't regret any of it. Like that was my, that was my goal at the time was literally when I would wake up, you know, I'd go out to the barn or garage. And my goal for that day was to win the CrossFit games. And I'd wake up the next day and that was my goal. And I did that for five years, really. And then we had Lakeland. And I knew that I had to, my mindset was going to have to shift.

and do I think I probably could have won the games once or twice more possibly but I didn't want my goal then was to be a good dad and that kind of it's been I would not change that for the world yeah you know the the title of dad is something that has to be earned you know it's I think it's people throw it around loosely and I look at everything I've done in my life and there were some places and things that I have done that I thought were impactful but that's they pale in comparison to the impact I think I can have on the world around me just on being a solid parent and being a role model and be an example for my kids. And I hope other parents who hear this realize that your kids hear more and see more than you think they do. And it's,

it's scary. Yeah, it's a burden that hopefully that you feel because it truly, I personally think that in my opinion, our country is the compass is deviating a little bit. But I also think none of the issues that we're dealing with happened overnight, so the solutions won't be overnight either. And the vehicle that I think will change them is going to be a generational shift, which again comes from earning the title of parent or dad or mother, as opposed to just taking it with a laissez-faire attitude like, yeah, whatever, you know, here's your phone. Right. No, I have 1,000% agree. I never, you know, I've never once told, you know, and I keep talking about Lakeland, because Lakeland's really the only one that's old enough to do anything and is becoming a human being. Like, Trice is 10 months old

and he's the happiest kid ever and he just sits there and laughs at everything. But Lakeland, who's three and a half, I mean, she's turning into a young woman. And I read this book, it was strong father, strong daughters. And it really made me realize that, man, I mean, with boys too, but with girls, like, it's, you know, not having a father figure or a good father figure really is, is, it's crazy how much you can affect your daughter by just being, you know, by being present, really, you know. and Lakeland picks up on so many different things and it's awesome to see. Like, I've never once told her to work out ever. And she'll come downstairs and I'll just be doing whatever. And she's like, hey, dad, I'm going to work out with you.

And I'm like, cool kid, go for it. And so I look over and she's doing burpees over a bar and like trying to snatch the, you know, she has a three pound barbell that she, you know, but she's down there running around playing and you don't, you don't think about those type of things. I mean, she hasn't seen it anywhere else. You know, she'll make up, one time I was just doing some, like, some interval type stuff while I watch her and she's kind of swinging on the rings and then she'd go pick up the barbell for two or three reps. Then she'd run back, swing on the rings, run to the wall and back, and then pick up the barbell. And I'm just like, man, where, like, there's only one place she's seen that, you know?

And so it's, it's just cool to see that it's, it's cool, but it's terrifying to see the type of effect you have on your kids. Yeah, for sure. You brought something up when you were talking about before your shift in mentality when, you know, you became a father and how you knew you were going to have to reset your priorities. And it ties into a bigger question. The overall question would be, you know, what advice do you have for people who are young coming into this? And I'll caveat that with it's something that actually I think, it doesn't concern me, but I'm curious to the impact. because I see as CrossFit has grown and the competitive aspect of CrossFit has grown, the competitive pool, these people have seen, these athletes have seen it from a younger age.

So now they are waking up saying, I want to win the CrossFit games at a younger age than you were when you first started. And I see a lot of young people who are sacrificing, like you said, holidays, life experiences, and a lot of things that I think helps round out a human being that you probably had those before you know what I mean? You were older in your life, so you had had some of those experiences. So when you said you are sacrificing them, you already have a rolodex of them to build off of. And for people who are really young who don't have that, who are making these sacrifices, I don't, I don't know if it's good or bad, but it is something that I have noticed.

And I hope that they don't miss out on life, you know, in the pursuit of, winning the games because there has to be an end state beyond that. So the question would be, from your perspective, who's somebody who is very dominant in this arena, what advice would you give to somebody who is young? Because you have people who, I mean, we're talking 10, 11, 12, 13 year old people who are like, I'm going to win the games. And they're going nuts about it. I mean, we have one, we have two of them here right now, like Angelo, who won the games. I mean, he started with us when he was 13, 12, 13 years old. He's now 18. and on one of our teams and dropped out of school.

I don't want to say dropped out of school, but went homeschooled to get his degree or to get his diploma. And so he could train more, quit playing sports, playing lacrosse. And in his defense, he said he wasn't very good lacrosse. So it didn't really matter. But then you have like Nick Palladino, who's also here now, who lives in Tennessee. And he's 19. And he did the same thing.

Quit playing football was pretty good at football. Went homeschooled. And you're just like, man, what are you like? those times in high school, some of the best times of my life. If I could go back and play high school baseball again, I would do it in a heartbeat. You know, like it's those things that you learn, you know, and granted, he does get, they do get a little bit of the locker room mentality and we whip up on him a little bit. But it's different, though, to your point.

You know, there's a lot of the first social interactions and experiences that really, I think, are formative for both men and women. And obviously they're in your family and with your siblings if you have them. But we're in sporting teams. Like I get asked all the time when I speak and talk about leadership, you know, where did I learn these leadership lessons? And the reality is, is I learned them essentially from my parents. But then they were reinforced and that anybody can learn them if they do organized sports

of any kind because of that social dynamic and you'll see good leadership and bad and you'll fail in front of your peers and you'll be successful in front of your peers. and you have to learn how to manage both of those things. And I think it's so essential to get those at that young age. Yeah, no, I 100%. I had, you know, I played in high school playing baseball. I had three coaches in my four years. And I saw three different coaching styles.

And, you know, I saw I had a really bad coach that I just, one, just could not get along with. But it prepares you for life, you know. There's going to be people you can't get along with or don't get along with, but you have to get along with. And they're not getting some of that stuff. And, you know, they're 17 and 18-year-old kids hanging out with 30-year-olds. Like, you know, what's day in and day out instead of, you know, going and hanging out

with the guys and girls that they play sports with and going to high school. I mean, can you imagine not going to high school? Like, you know, we've talked about doing some homeschool stuff with our kids. But as soon as they get to high school or middle school, you know, know, they're going to school. And so it just, it blows my mind what's going on with some of these kids. You know, if you look at, I mean, how many CrossFit games has there been 12? Man, you're asking the wrong part. I think so. 12 or 13. And there's only been, what, five or six winners? And how many people have tried year in and

you're out. And so if you look at, you could probably say the top, you know, there's probably 20 or 30 of us that are making a living doing a decent living. You know, some people say that they're sponsored athletes and they're getting gear. But which is a form, which is a form of sponsorship. And what I always tell people, I do not making your living, you know, they're living off mom and dad. You can't do your mortgage with shoes. Nope, you can't unless you sell those shoes. But, you know, that's legal, right? I just, it's hard for me to see sometimes. It's like when I won the games the first two or three years,

I was an assistant strength coach at Tennessee Tech. I was getting my training in that way and making a living at the same time. It wasn't a good living. You know, as an assistant strength coach, more of a, you know, I was working a lot. And then, you know, owning an affiliate for the next year or two after that. now, you know, we make real good money out of the affiliate, but I'm still making money as an athlete. So it's just, it's hard, you know, to try to show these younger, the younger generation that, hey, it's going to take a lot of hard work and sacrifice, but you got also got to,

you got to grow up and grow into that. You know, I was lucky enough that it was kind of a gradual progression. It wasn't like an overnight thing. gradual progression with embedded life experience to build upon and all those things that you mentioned, those interactions. Yeah, it's a, I don't want to, I mean, that's why I said, I don't want to say it's good or bad. It's something that I sit back and I would say that I'm definitely, I mean, I don't know, cautious isn't even the word either, but it's something that I think it's, I'm concerned about. It's almost the unhealthy pursuit of fitness in the long term. Yeah. They'll be incredibly healthy, yeah, incredibly healthy, but not.

capable in a social or societal setting. Right. I mean, you're talking physical health. You're not talking, you know, like you're saying, social health or any other, you know, mental health in some cases. And here's the thing too is we don't know what the lifespan of a CrossFit athlete career-wise is. So I mean, who knows if having these kids start at 14 and 15. I feel like with the volume and the way stuff's going, I think you've got probably about a 10-year window, you know, like once, once you're past, who knows? Yeah, I don't know because you're not seeing, you know, a lot of us started. It's too young, yeah. There's not enough data points.

Right. I was 22, 23. So I'm, this would be my ninth cross-foot games. And so, I mean, I think, who knows? Who knows with, with, with Daryne, I mean, with Angelo and Nick, those are going to be kind of you'll see, see how long you can do this with those type of kids. People forget along the way. Yeah, people forget along the way as well that the entire goal of fitness is actually so you can bow hunt. Like, I don't understand, I don't understand where this got lost. There's been going to go hunting for exactly nine months now.

And I'm convinced that fitness is all about bell hunting. Bow hunting. Yeah, I mean, that's, I think if you go back to the beginning of time, right? That's what fitness was for. Yeah. Well, I mean, only if you wanted to survive to see the sun go right, the earth one more time. Exactly. Speaking of goal hunting.

Yeah, we need to get you bow hunting. So you have a bow, right? What do you shoot? I have a Hoyt spider, carbon spider, that I shoot. I got it about two years ago. And honestly, I didn't really shoot it much until the last probably month or so. And then I got kind of addicted to it. And I really enjoy it.

It's almost like a, almost just like a peaceful thing to do. like my life's a little chaotic, especially right now having three kids under the age of three and a half in the house. And so it's just kind of a, you know, a relaxing, fun thing to do. And last year I really got into hunting turkeys. I'd, you know, do it with a shotgun, not with a bow. This year I'm going to try to do it with a bow a couple of times. But man, I got into it hardcore last year, just being out in the woods and just a, I'm still, you know, walking around the woods. you know, one of the times, one of the turkeys that I killed, we walked around eight miles to get this bird. And so, I mean, so there was still some fitness involved. And it's just, it was something new that I was like, wow, why haven't I been doing this longer?

So now I want to like, I want to try to do the out west thing and actually use some fitness and go out and stalk and hunt and do that type of thing. I can't, I can't get into the white tail thing here where you just sit in a tree and wait. You know, everybody, a lot of the guys love it. Guys and girls love it. But, you know, I mean, you know me. I can't sit still long enough to do that. I think you arguably could be the worst tree stand hunter ever. I think you would be up there making noise.

Pull-ups on the branches or something like that. Yeah, you'd be, yeah, you would either be doing pull-ups or, I don't know, you'd be moving around and like a world-class buck would walk by it, but you'd miss it because you were doing something else. But I tell you what, you want to talk about the fitness aspect. of hunting, go out into the mountains. Yeah. And it's if you can, I mean, the goal, I actually, it has really reshaped. And it was great for me to find it so recently because it's again, it's a, I use it as the fire when I don't want to go work out or, you know, I like you would have rather

fit on a calculation to go do something. Totally. Because it's my worst fear is to arrive at a moment where I need to be able to execute and I have failed myself getting there because, I mean, you can't shoot. you're crushed. You know, you have to both be physically and mentally there. And I mean, I live in a valley now and I got mountains on the east and west side. And that's where the animals are. So I get to wake up and look and go out and hunt. And dude, we got to get you out here. I need to link you up. I know a guy. I'm glad you shoot a Hoyt. I know a guy who is a lot taller than you who should be

able to dial you in pretty well with some archery stuff. I don't know if you followed John Dudley, He knows a thing or two. He knows his way around a bow. Did you do a podcast with him? I had knocked on. Who's knocked on? Knock on. Is, yep.

So he has a knock on. Okay. Yep. Knock on podcast. But he, you know, he literally took me from my backyard and invited me to his house. Last year,

it was actually last year, it's funny how it comes back to the games. I was out in Madison. Went to, uh, he lives in Iowa near Des Moines, drove out. Okay.

And, you know, he re kind of fiddled with my bow and refit it and move some measurements around and taught me how to make my own arrows and we're shooting in the backyard. And two weeks later, he calls me, he's like, hey, you want to go hunting in Alberta, which, to which I responded, that's obviously a rhetorical question, but I have to go ask, I have to go, I have to ask my boss because I'm not authorized to make decisions. So I got to go. Right.

I get that. And the next thing I know, I'm out there hunting elk for the first time with a guy who's got a wealth of knowledge and experience. And then from there, we actually did go tree stand hunting in Georgia. And I mean, it was, it was different. I mean, that's what I'll say about But it definitely is not exciting and it's nowhere near as exciting as, you know, creeping over hills and hiding behind a bush and trying to play the game of hide and seek with an animal with a carbon fiber dart in between the two. But then we went to France and I just went to Oklahoma with him to hunt hogs.

It's what I'll say is, yeah, I saw the hog media. Oh, man. So it was, and all of these different animals, they all have some similarities and many, many differences. And it all comes back to, though, you have to get to the moment where you can take the shot and you have to be able to take the shot. It's all fun in games if you can get yourself there, but if you're smoked and spent and not emotionally composed, you're probably going to fail in that moment. And actually, I bet you you'll do incredibly well because I would describe, again, watching you, having seen you compete in these stages that are certainly elevated with a lot of people watching, you maintain your

composure really well. So I think it's going to be a seamless transition for you. We just got to get you in the right spot. Yeah, I've done a couple workouts, actually, where in between rounds, you have to shoot an arrow or two or something like that. It's been, it's been fun, but it's been, it's challenging. You like, you have to kind of, you know, obviously set your breath and kind of relax, but it goes into the same thing as, like I said, last year, hunting those turkeys where, like, I'm, you know, a lot of guys around here like to do the call and wait for them where I listen. And if I hear one call, then I take off and try to find them. And so, Actually, two of the birds, no, three of the birds that I, well, one of the birds I had to low crawl to.

And then two of the birds, I was shooting on the run. And then the third bird, I stopped. He flew and I shot him out of the air. So that just, it's just a little bit more of a more, I don't know, if you have to actually work for it. And it's a little bit more rewarding. And obviously, I eat everything that I kill. And, you know, you kind of get, I don't know if you saw any of my social media posts last year, but I got a lot of flack from those posts, to say the least.

I did see it. And again, being very new to hunting really of any kind, I, it's odd. Again, when you look at social media, right? But I think we can agree lack of social skills and it's not media. It gives everybody a voice. It gives everybody a voice, which I'm going to, I think I'm going to land on the side that that's not necessarily a good idea. Everybody has an opinion. Let's just say that they're not all valid.

But it's crazy to see the hatred in vitriol that comes out. And again, back to the social media thing, you know they would never say it to your face because there are actually consequences. But the judgment, and I don't understand what it is when it comes to hunting in particular. I actually did a podcast dedicated just to my thoughts on the ethics of hunting. and I often find that the people who are the most vocal online have no problem eating meat themselves. Thank you. Yeah, they just want to outsource the killing portion, which to me is, I mean, makes you a coward.

How dare you steal my words? Damn it, Rich. I'm sorry. That's the exact, that's my exact sentiment. It's like you're not, it's not that your hands are clean. I'd say they're dirtier because you're outsourcing it. And you actually, you're detaching also from that education for yourself as to where, the animal came from, the habitat and the environment that they were in.

I mean, the elk, I was, I was able to, uh, I killed an elk this year in Utah. And although I can't say what it ate for every meal and I don't know exactly where it was migrating around, I'm pretty damn sure that it wasn't being forced fed corn or antibiotics. And, uh, yeah, I don't, I don't understand that disconnect of, I don't know. I don't know if people have unrealistic expectations of what animals. and what their life actually is. I mean, I've been in the wilderness quite a bit in many different countries. I've never seen a retirement home for animals, but I am looking.

And I do believe other animals eat other animals, correct? I mean, it's a rough world out there. And I just, I don't know, man. Again, that's another thing. It's like you see, and it's weird because I bet you the same people who made those comments on your posts. If you had posted something about exercise or whatever it had been, they'd have been a huge fan. A huge fan.

But if you post something about getting yourself involved in using your fitness. Yeah. In a sustainable and ethical way to source food for your family, I don't know, man. I just think it highlights the detached nature of where we are as a society. And it's not, it doesn't bring a smile to my face. I guess I'll put it to you like that. No. Yeah, no, I mean, I understand, like, while I don't understand being a vegetarian or vegan,

but I could see those people being upset at a post about an animal being killed. I don't necessarily share the same opinion, but I can see their side of the whatever. However, the people that have a hamburger in their posts below the post that they, you know, whatever, the ones, those people that were so blown away and upset that I had killed an animal that I was going to eat and what they thought for fun or for sport. I mean, I don't know about you, but when you kill an animal, there's a little bit of remorse there. you're kind of like, wow, you know, like the life is, you know, I've taken a life. It's not as, you know, like people are like, how can you celebrate taking a life? And it's just, you know, when you even you start looking at trophies and stuff like that.

But it kind of represents like a story. And, you know, you're almost like honoring the animal and the story that you have for that animal. And it just blew my mind people. And so then, of course, the, you know, the first one was kind of like, hey, this was, this was cool. This was, I really enjoyed this. the three four or two three and four were kind of hey this is in your face to those people that were you know really upset about what had happened with those those birds yeah it uh people threatened to kill my dog we're like how would you like if i killed your dog and you're just like are you

killed your and you're just how are you taking that to the next level i was going to say the leap and thought process there is like standing on one side of the grand canyon and successfully broad jumping to the other side. Like, it's, you don't understand the disconnect. I'm upset that you killed an animal, so I'm going to kill your dog. It's like, what? And I'm the one with the problem. Exactly.

People are, people are crazy. I just, then that's, and that goes back to just giving everybody a voice. Like, oh, man, it's just, it's scary the, what's going on now with, with that type of stuff where everybody can say anything that they want. And I get free speech and I'm all for the. Constitution, but come on, man. Well, free speech, freedom of consequences are two different things. I often find, you know, it's bizarre.

The First Amendment is a beautiful thing, but you need to read into the First Amendment and see that it's actually a protection from the government and not private organizations or individuals. And it doesn't say that there won't be consequences. You know, it's, and it's actually not that long. The First Amendment is not that many words put together, and people just take great liberties with I can say whatever I want. It's like, yeah, you can, but then I also have the right to take it the way that I want to

and respond the way that I feel is according as well. So there's got to be a give and take, man. I just wish people would change and maybe listen 80% and talk 20 instead of talk 80 and listen 20%. I think we'd be better off if people could do that. Yeah, people just want to push their opinion and they think their opinion is the only one that matters. And I think, you know, if you start looking at anything and anybody who's, I mean, you just, I feel like people are so radical either left or right that you can't even, it's, if you can't find middle ground, then I mean, we're kind of missing the point on what's going on here, you know. I think if we forget at the baseline that we're Americans and we can't agree on that, we're in serious trouble. I mean, because I will listen.

I'm on the, I'm on the left sometimes on issues and the right on others. And I don't care where people, where they fall on their issues. I will listen to opinions that I absolutely don't agree with as long as we can agree that we're Americans, assuming I'm talking to somebody who's from this country, but if we can agree that we're an American and that what we both want is to make our situation better, I got nothing but time for you. You know, I'll listen to everything that you have to say. Agreed.

So tell me about your podcast. Yeah, we just, we literally just kind of, it's similar to this where we just talk, you know, we have fun. we have Ellie who's on our team. She's really good at kind of the interview style coming up with questions and having fun. And she comes up with all these bogus facts that she thinks are real. And she's fun. And then we got a guy named Jim, Jim Hensel.

And he's kind of a guy that we've had around. He's been coming to the gym for three or four years. He was actually from Colorado. He worked with Tennessee Tech, some of the athletes, and then stepped away from that. is a he calls himself kind of a it's not a life coach whatsoever it's he calls it a culture coach and he's you know he start looking into what he does it's i hate the whole you know be be the best you you can be and you know all pump up words and stuff like that his thing is is kind of trying to help people figure out themselves and like not be so caught up in what you do

and uh but kind of figure out who you are you know he he kind of talks about his past and And his wife left him and all this stuff. And he said he was in a dark place. And he watched the movie, Gladiator and where he taught, the guy steps up and is like, you know, talks about who he is and knows exactly who he is. And then Jim was like, man, I wish I could do that. And so he's kind of come up with this program that he has that is kind of helps people define and put into words who they are and not get so caught up in what they do.

And it's been a pretty cool, cool thing to see. And, you know, I kind of went through it just to see what it was about. And it was, you know, and he was like, you are kind of an exception in that I already knew who I was. Like, there's no question. Like, I don't ever question who I am. But it's cool to be able to put it into words. And there's like an actual concrete thing to help people get to that assumption, or not assumption, but get to that definition of who they are. It's been pretty cool to see.

Yeah, it's powerful when you can have an abstract concept that makes sense to you and actually put it down on something concrete and see it help other people. I think there's a next amount of value there. His big thing is words, you know, and like having these words that you filter your, you know, his big thing is feel, think, filter flow. And a lot of people or feel, feel, feel filter, think, whatever. And so people don't have this filter that we're talking about in social media. And they get so caught up in emotion and making decisions based on emotion instead of, hey, thinking this out, what are my values?

what do I really think is going on here? And then making a decision based on that. A lot of people nowadays, just everything is based off of emotion. And I mean, obviously, that's what we've been talking about with the social media stuff. People get so caught up and so fired up that they just, you know, say whatever they want to say instead of actually thinking about it, having a logical conversation with themselves and then making a decision based on that. on a picture over a picture. Exactly.

A picture of an animal. No kidding. And then you wrote a book as well too. Tell me a little bit about that. Yeah, I mean, I ghost wrote a book. You know how that I don't know. I actually don't know what that means. What does that mean?

So basically I sat down with a guy for about two days, two, three days. And we talked through my whole life. And he wrote a chapter and he would send it over and have me make sure it sounded, you know, accurate and we went through kind of that whole process and that's been man was that 2012 or 2013 I didn't realize it was that long yeah I didn't realize it was that long ago yeah it's been a while and so it was a cool process you know like they approached me and were like hey uh you ever thought about writing the book and I was like nope didn't think anybody would ever want to read it so never really crossed my mind to do that and so uh they you know we went through that whole process

it was I guess there was two other people there was two people there was the editors well. And so it was a pretty cool process. I mean, it's odd to think that, you know, people would want to read a book about my life or, you know, we've had, we have the movie that CrossFit HQ did. And so that was kind of cool. But I mean, to me, it's just, I just try to be a normal human being. You know, I try not to get too caught up in some of that stuff. I think that's the healthiest way to be about that. And on that note, I know, It's Friday. You're an hour ahead of me.

I'm going to let you get back to your family, man. We already talked for like an hour and 15 minutes, which is way longer than I thought we were going to. Cool. Yeah, man. Let me know. We'll try to hook that trip up. If you ever want to come out and do some turkey hunting, let me know,

we'll do that too. Get you on our podcast. I like it. We'll do it for sure. That's it, everybody. That is all I have for this week. As always, thank you for, one, the support of buying all the gear for the,

from the podcast, the t-shirts and the hats. If you take a picture, you receive those. Do me favor if you're going to post this stuff on social media, hashtag cleared hot on there so I can see everything out there in the wild. I love it. Thank you for the reviews on iTunes. And I'll say this probably every time that I bring up iTunes. Go on there and let me know what you think.

Good, bad, ugly. It doesn't matter to me. Try to make this the best product that I possibly can. If you got something you think I could do better, do me a favor. Let me know. And if you don't want to write a review, then don't write a review. then don't write a review. Take it easy. But that's all I got for this week. See you guys next week. Later.