Cleared Hot - Powered By BRCC - Cleared Hot Episode 70 - Brian Chontosh and John Dudley

Episode Date: February 4, 2019

This podcast comes to you from Texas, and an incredible hunting outfitter, CS Outfitters.  Brian and John are both repeat guests, but this is the first time we have shared a hunting camp, and hunting experiences.  Many people think that hunting is solely comprised of killing, and they could not be further from the truth.   In 2.5 days we busted our ass, walked, crawled, laughed, drank, and learned. I think it has to be experienced to truly be understood.  Brian Chontosh is a retired Marine Corps officer, endurance athlete, and aspiring bow hunter.  You will get a glimpse into his character by reading his Navy Cross Citation.  John Dudley is the creator and founder of Nock On Archery which in my opinion is the one stop shop for archery knowledge and equipment.  John has mentored me into bowhunting for the past 18 months, and now it is Brian's turn to learn from the master. 

All right, here we go. Episode 70, before I get into the guests, a little bit of admin stuff that I got to cover. Specifically, I have two awesome sponsors for today's episode. So this episode, episode 70 of the cleared hot podcast, is brought to you by RX Bar, which has been a previous sponsor of the podcast. RX Bar is a protein bar made with 100% whole ingredients, no BS, no bad stuff like added sugar, artificial colors, artificial flavors, preservatives or fillers. They're made with a few, with some of a few. I think you did that right. Clean ingredients, where every ingredient serves a purpose.

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particular family a family of five my wife and i and three kids and three dogs so we bring a petting zoo when we go places it's been it's been pretty awesome check them out rolywhite.com get a hold of brock and that's it for ads for this episode so episode 70 what do i say about this two guests that I have on. First off, they're awesome people, and they've both been on the podcast before. Brian Chantosh was episode number eight, so early on, and I was able to snag him in Madison, Wisconsin. I think it was in 20, it had to have been in 2017 at the CrossFit Games. He was a Marine Corps officer, and he has a pretty amazing story. If you go into Google and you put in Brian Chantosh Navy Cross, what you're going to find is,

is an unbelievable award citation, and I will just let it speak for itself. And actually, I'll put a link to his citation in the narrative description of the podcast. He does some pretty amazing physical feats. I would say he certainly is an endurance athlete. I don't know where an endurance athlete and an ultra-endurance athlete where that line crosses, but he does some crazy stuff. Here's an example. He got inside of a military conex box, which are like large metal shipping containers.

on a treadmill with no external stimulus of any kind in the dark, and he ran for 24 hours, just to see how far he could make it in a sensory-deprived environment, which is something that if you put $5 million on a table in front of me, I don't think that I would do. He's an incredibly unique human being, super passionate person, and I think it comes across when we were talking, it certainly does when you spend any time with him. And he just started hunting with a bow. So we recorded this podcast post two and a half days of bow hunting, which was Brian's first attempt at, actually, I take that back. He's not brand new to bow hunting.

This was his first bow hunting experience, having somebody like Dudley over his shoulder to tutor him and kind of mentor him, just like Dudley was able to do for me for the last 18 months. And speaking of Dudley, he is the second guest that joined us for this podcast. the three of us were down in texas at an amazing outfitter that allowed us to go out and kind of pick and choose what we wanted to pursue as far as animals and it was all from the ground it was all spot and stock and if people think that hunting in texas is canned i have obviously limited experience doing so given how little i've been hunting if you think it's easy and you think it's canned go out there get a bow and try to do some spot and stock on sheep or at axis deer and your world's going to flip on its head. It's extremely difficult. What makes it easier for me is having a guide like Dudley out there. So John Dudley, world class, I'm just going to say Archer. He's got a breadth and depth and wealth of knowledge when it comes to basically anything archery related from competition archery shooting to bow setups to bow tuning to arrow setups to arrow tuning and then of course the hunting aspect on top of that as well he was my intro into the

bow hunting world and if anybody who follows me or the podcast probably realize i'm you know a little bit head over heels for bow hunting it's pretty awesome it's one of my favorite things to do i love the challenge i love the fact that i fail and fall in my face all the time and most of the time dudley is there and if you're new to archer or you want to get into archery because i get this question all the time i'm not the resource for you but john is. So follow him on Instagram. He's at Knock on TV. He has

a YouTube, a Knock on, Knock on YouTube channel that has got everything on there from bow setups to arrow tuning to instructional series that he's putting on now called the School of Knock. He's your resource for anything bow hunting related. When I get

questions via text about bow stuff, all I do is I copy and paste that to Dudley and then send the answer back to the person. So look him up if you're into the archery world and with that let's get into it episode number 70 from tejas here we go okay got to red smoke godner run north or south okay copy west of the smoke i'm looking at danger close now i'm all women there to give it to me i made it you're cleared hot i can't be cleared hot i don't want to

breathe into the mic am i don't be mouth breather you were doing that You were doing that on your hunt. These are nice. Getting all up in that mouth breathing. Breathing heavy trying to keep up with it. I don't know if I've ever heard anybody discuss. Yeah, it's already rolled. Oh, yeah, of course.

I like it. I don't know if I've ever heard anybody discuss their challenges with mouth breathing. I don't, I've never heard anybody have an issue with these microphones. Do you have an excessive exhale? On my microphones, I feel like I'm doing that all the time, and then I'm checking for drool. swing that thing closer to your mouth can't hear me

oh I can't just keep it on you want you want to there you that's the experience yeah well otherwise I have to go into the software and like jack up your wave for him because you're going to sound like a mouse in the background okay how do you want you tell me where you want I think you're good I think you're good too yeah you're good there as long as you can make room for your

PBR yeah we need to do a drink check in one drink checking one cheers Louis that's great times good times thanks Tosh bless you man you're kidding how do we even start

I almost want to start just grilling Tosh on his first bow hunting experience. Yeah. What he learned. Rock. How was it? We'll start broad. I mean, no need for a while. Yep.

You introduced me to Duds not too long ago. Only met him once. Chat. Came to the house. You in Ritches. And it's like, hey, I had a connection down here at this ranch. I was like, hey, I want to share something. I like share.

I'm sharing good people with good people. I like sharing things with people that I care about. And it's like, hey, I love fucking hunting. I want to learn. Who else? Who else better to learn from? And I get to spend some time with you. And then we just put it together.

We've been, I was driving down here for a hunt, and you and I were talking on the phone. We were talking. It was right before you launched Free Range American. Okay, so six, seven months ago then. And then I was on the way down here, and I said, hey, let's just put it together. He's like, yeah, let's do it.

We picked some dates. He totally goes like real soft-spoken. You hear that? Yeah. You speak quieter right now on a podcast than we did in the timber hunting for three days. Because you made me put that face mask on and cover my ears. You can't hear shit with that thing on. You were at five hours today.

Yeah. He's got real philosophy. He's like, you go deep in the field? No, but right now he's like quiet and down. I got to come down a little bit. I feel like it's podcast anxiety you have going on right now. He does. It could be.

We need to break this. Back to the question. Okay. I had a blast. Are you kidding? I'm hunting with you guys. I'm learning from the best. I'm spending time.

I'm watching. I'm learning. Duds gives me a brand new bow. And we're out here after animals and we're seeing all kinds of things. I mean, I learned infinitely more in my first stalk than out there in the woods by myself for the last two years. And watching all the shows and doing the YouTubery. It's like,

In one stock, I learned more with you than two, two and a half years of boe hunting. I find it to be, I have found it in other activities in my life to be quite humbling to have that experience where you're in the woods, the metaphorical woods, you're going down a path and an activity, and then you encounter somebody who's actually really good at it. Yep. And you pair up with them and you're like, okay, I'm going to probably show this guy what's up. And then only two minutes into you're like, oh, God, where's my notebook? I'm going to backtrack into being like, I'm going to backtrack into being like, I'm going to. I'm a dork. Yeah, I'm just going to go ahead and realize that I've wasted the last three to five years

of my life. I don't actually know anything and start taking notes. I was taking notes yesterday, just on the stuff that I had learned about the sheep that we were after. Yeah. So I don't mean, I don't know, I'm assuming your knowledge base is probably close to being complete. Mine's on the other side of the spectrum.

But one of the coolest things I think about the hunting we've done of, we don't repeat animals very frequently. That is true. So every time out there. So we were hunting. They're sheep, right? I keep wanting to call them Rams, but they're not Rams. Well, we're down in Texas, so we're kind of on a really, really cool place.

Tosh found this place. It's really neat. White Tail season ended a week ago. And for me, this is the time of year where there's still opportunity to learn, and this is the perfect place for it. It's places where they have, you know, in Texas they refer to them as exotics. They're not native species to hear. So three of the things that they had here were they had Texas doll sheep. They had Hawaiian mouflons, and they had, what was that other?

Corsican. Yeah, it was a Corsican ram. Also known as sniper. Yeah, and we're in the, I guess the start of the Texas Hill country, I would say. But the terrain is very, very similar to, especially in some of these hills. It's very similar to almost. what we encountered in France, but it just, it doesn't go for another 9,000 feet up. You know, the elevation might, maybe it's 800 feet top to bottom, I would say, but pretty sheer,

real thick, a lot of rock. It's very, very suitable for several of the animals that they have here, which was like Gems Buck and these different Rams. And yeah, you learned right away, like, nope, we can't do that. Were you surprised by the volcanic rock? here um that sounds that's awesome that's awesome we're not a chair action maybe it was the first day walking around i we encountered these huge piles of what i can only assume is volcanic rock i don't know if it's volcanic rock i think it's it's all creek bed that's just from the years of washing out the way the rocks are made they like pit out like do you see on some of those river bends where it was just completely dished out. That's just a larger scale of what you're seeing.

I think the rock isn't, I don't know if it's as solid. I don't know if that makes sense, but it seems like waterways get some really weird looking rocks where it almost looks like it had bubbling in it when it was made or something. And when it chinks, it makes that really high-pitched, like light. That's, yeah. It was surprised how quiet it was when I'd accidentally kick it. It was great down a hill. Tint-tit-tit-tint-tint-tink. Tink. T-tint-tink. It was. with Nick, I'm like, hey, we should go a couple miles that way because I think we're done here. Especially with these Rams. That's one thing that you hadn't experienced yet was, you know, every type of species has things that they adapt to surviving. And these, you know, things that used to live

in the cliffs and live in the rock and live in the shale, when they hear shale sliding, to them, that's an indicator that something is moving that shale. And for them, it probably, it probably goes back to when cats, you know, when mountain lions would be there and attack them. So you could be moving and crunching a little bit of, you know, twig or you could crunch, you know, some of the dried leaves. And those Rams, if they were 100 yards out, they would still be doing their business. But as soon as you stepped on a slate and it cracked in half or you hit a slate and it started to slide down the hill, they were just pinpoint on you. Like to them, that was a defense mechanism. The velocity, especially that Corsican,

that his head would snap and the accuracy that he would pinpoint where the noise was coming from and just sit there and burn a hole through us. It was not awesome. It got personal with him. This whole hunt started out for us to get Tosh, you know, his first bow kill and be able to experience it. And I appreciate you wanting to stalk with me. I really just wanted to be there to try to navigate and guide. But once I broke off with Andy on that second day,

and that coarskin freaking sniped him like three times and then all of a sudden it got personal and I'm like, all right sucker I'm freaking suiting up we were after Axis dear Yeah we were here for Axis. Also not a native.

I'm fascinated with the Axis too. Yeah, they're beautiful aren't they? I mean they're amazing Yeah, there's a lot of there. I mean that's all I want. I'm fixing it. They taste delicious. They're beautiful. Best me to are, I would say.

Wiley. Sucraline. They are wily. And then that's what we were going for. And then that, the sheep got in your head and you just were like shifted gear. It was like this. I was like, I just saw the shift gear. He's going after these things.

And it seemed like every time you went after him and then they adapted very quickly. And they learned and they learned. And they kept, I loved watching the two of you guys with the strategy. Adapting, though, is that once he gets his hooks in something like that, from a mental perspective, Like every time that they have been around you, and not like that one at Wes's place. Oh. He's like, nope, we're going back.

Nope, we're going back. He's like got the taste for it. And so once they started, I think, juke in us a little bit, it was basically a matter of time. Like we were shutting everything down until we handled that business. Yep.

Totally. It was not. It was cool to watch that because it was, okay, do this, boom, they're on it. And then you evolve, they evolve, you evolve, they evolve. It's a chest match.

Yep. Boom. and you figured it out. I mean, you bagged. You got yours. Yeah. But that was also the first one. And the group that we were walking after that had been, I wouldn't say they had been pushed,

but you guys had been stalking them as well. We encountered them in the morning. And I was off on the side and they came by and we kind of chased them around. So we were pushing them around a little bit. And then Dudley looked over and said, oh, hey, there's the Muflons over there. So they had a little bit less experience with what was going on. and their behavior, I think their behavior was appropriate to that because as we got closer, and they definitely saw us as we were moving to the tree.

Then we got into the tree and started moving towards them. And the closest one stood up, but the biggest one, which is the one I ended up taking the shot on, was the last one to get up, and he kind of just stretched out and looked over, and that didn't work out so hot for him. But I have a feeling that the behavior of that group would be different if we encountered him now, because they all took off running and then Billy peeled off. and they were not to be seen. Or you guys saw them at the far end of the, at the ranch,

which Doug was saying that's not historically where they are. They moved clear, I mean. Well, just to give a background, day one, Andy's watch logged 12 miles. 12.8. 12.8 miles. And then yesterday we were at 8 and a half. And you actually kind of set up in an ambush spot. So I probably, I bet I hit 10 yesterday total.

In the evening. Yeah, because our evening. hunt was different. I mean, this was actually really good. That's what I was telling you. I'm like, these guys should really try to sell this place as like a great learning experience for bow hunters who are trying to start to do mule deer hunts, spot and sock black bear hunts, even elk hunts. Because honestly, the biggest bulls I've ever shot on elk, it's not ones that came running to a call. A lot of times the biggest bulls have their harems and their, you know, you're setting up strike zones.

You're just trying to set up ambush spots. Once you get eyes on them, if you call to that bowl, a lot of times they'll just gather up, you know, his herd and just push him off. But if you just let them do their thing and then kind of strategize and figure like ambush points, then you become really successful. And this place was perfect for that. For the reps. Yeah.

It ties me back into the first question that we opened with. I'm interested to hear, so you said you learned a ton on your first stock. I'm interested to hear you talk about what you learned just in the last two and a half days because I'm only 18 months ahead of you in this experience. And I, like I said, was writing stuff down. And the limited success that I have had in this particular activity, I can 100% say it's written in the multiple failures that I have had. Like, and I'm sure we'll talk about what happened last night, but getting pinned and like, I can't move my dial.

I guess you're going to walk away because I couldn't move. And I drew it the wrong time. I was standing in the wrong place where I was looking at my feet and then looked up. I'm like, oh, hey, animal. You're going to run away now?

Okay, cool. I'm just going to go kick rocks. Yeah. So what did you learn? I didn't, I didn't even draw on an animal. So I know that the stuff that I learned to even get in position or even get down the storybook

to learn all the stuff that I still have yet to learn. That's, that's kind of exciting for me. I think that's addicting. It's, okay, I'm learning this stuff. Okay, I got that. I told John, Ginger John, I won't make the same mistake twice. I won't not do, if Dudley points something out to me, he won't look back and say,

well, why are you doing what I told you not to do? Like, I'm committed to that, which is cool. And so, what did I learn? I mean, we've been in the business of hunting and stalking for a lot of years. It is different, though. But it is absolutely different. Like the camouflage and understanding dead space, sure.

I've never tried to stalk to 35 yards on a person. No, no, no, no. It's just not necessary. But I'm just being reinforced like common sense. Use your dead space. Use your blockers. Where you want to stab, which one? And it's like, yeah, that, dude, why am I not making that connection with this?

And by being on the ground, just kind of identifying, okay, hey, cool, like that makes total common sense. I should have been thinking about that. not that complicated, but you're, I'm thinking about these things and it's like, you're not even going to get a chance to think about those things if you don't do these things first.

Yeah, it really brings you all the way back to the basics. Focus, and it's exhausting. If you're really concentrating, just walking around is exhausting, you know? I was talking to him when we were taking the pictures today. He grabbed your bow, which is an awesome bow, but guess what?

It's heavier than the carbon one. Yeah, yeah. And he was talking about walking around and how his arm was tired and I was telling him one of the things I learned early on walking around with you is especially when we slowed down and started moving slower I would find myself like raising my shoulders up and for whatever reason I would be carrying my bow with a bent elbow joint yeah which is not awesome when you carry your bow like that for 30 minutes and then you go to draw back and you're just oh I can't hold it up it's like holding a dumbbell you know it's like holding a eight pound or 10 pound dumbbell at half curl.

And then trying to move. For an hour walking around for 10 miles. With your shoulders jammed up. And then you get to a place where you actually need to do something. And I've only learned that because I got smoked in that position like three times. So I'm telling Tosh, I actively tell myself when I'm walking around, like make sure my shoulders are down, make sure my joints are taking the load instead of the muscle, especially like if we're knocked up stalking around.

Because you'll draw back. It's not awesome. when you're freaking smoked already before you drop back. We tromped around the whole day the first day. We came back here and I said, hey, I just want to shoot the bow a little bit. And I went out there to take the first shot and I was like, oh my God, I can't. Imagine even if I had put myself into a hunting shooting scenario. And I would have been feeling that for the first time.

So that was kind of neat too, like stalk all day long, come back and like get some reps in. I mean, I think that's a cool, because I'm always thinking about that, like realistic rehearsals, realistic rehearsals, hunt stock all day wasn't successful, force yourself to go and take a couple shots. And it's like, okay, hey, because that's legitimately what I would have felt. I mean, last night when we got in, we can have to talk about, we'll go tell that story later. No, hold on. I haven't even been able to.

You touched on it. Go ahead and fire away. Oh, man. And don't leave anything out or also just ask you direct questions. I don't even, I'm not even going to talk about your demonstration. Yeah. Dudley puts on a demonstration that I'm watching. Like we said, it got personal with the sheep.

It got personal. We renamed that little spot in the back corner to Hamburger Hill. Yeah, that's what happens. That's Hamburger Hill now. They didn't know who they were messing with. Oh, my God. And so we're watching that, and then that all unfolds, and Duds comes walking to me because I couldn't see him.

I mean, that's another thing, too. Like, my camouflage is my camouflage. I mean camouflage, your camouflage is yours. And yours is yours. It's nice. That Sitka is nice. Well, like you said that day, I popped out of the truck, and I went and took a knee. It's surprising.

So I saw you, but when I took my eyes off of you and then I tried to reacquire you, the only reason I saw you was because you were moving. And then I took my eyes off you, and then I looked back and you were dead still. Dudd said, hey, man, like, Annie is invisible with that South Alpine. And I'm like, no, I saw him. and then I'm looking, I'm like, where is he? And I... Yeah.

And then, oh, there he is. But it was because of the movement. You were invisible. Not to make it a sick ad, but I mean, I've had some crazy animal experiences wearing that stuff. Yeah. I can tell that they're looking at me. And then you can just see the expression on their face that they're looking through me and passed and they cannot see me. And then the head goes back down and they're not wigged out.

I've had that happen at least. It happened a bunch in Alberta. Yeah. With mulees. I have had the opposite experience with that as well, too. That's cool, man. That's cool. That's my number one.

If I want to continue to get as many of the odds in my favor as possible, it's addressing my camouflage issues. And your crocs. My crocs are dope, right? I mean, these things are legit. It's keeping for house sandals. I'm going to buy a pair of vans and hunting my vans because... My vans were quiet as a mouse, man.

They were okay. Six foot seven, two six. Well, first off, let's just go back. I normally do not hunting vans, but since I was first on the Mexico border before I came here, I had these like full knee high, full leather snake boots. Which you took for a spin on the first day. On the first day, I took for a spin, and I was thinking, this is going to be pancake flat, just like where I was, just dodging a few prickly pears and stuff.

Oh, my God, my lower lumbar was blown out. I felt like I was walking around and like. Do you switch half day? No, I took him the full 12. Terrible decision. Yeah. So you're not getting away from your story. Yeah, I was trying to distract me.

That's not going to happen. You're pinned in. Yeah, we're high-fiving, hugging, reflecting on the story with the sheep. And you just happen to look. I look over Tasha's shoulder. Don't move. Get down.

How far away would you say this? He was 184 yards over his shoulder. Yeah, at that point. And just to backtrack, we're on a place that has, he said, he figures there's about 150 to 200 axis here. You and I saw three bucks the first day. And then, I mean, we have, like, covered this place crazy. Multiple times. And that was the first buck that I saw bedded.

And, I mean, I don't, it was almost like it was just a gift. I just look over your shoulder and like as far as I can see past your shoulder, I see the the big like rainbow look of a rack and I pull my binoculars up looking past your ear and shoulder and there's just this giant axis bedded just kind of look in the other way. And I'm like, dude, the last two days it's game on right now. In the same sentence, he's like, don't look. Did you see him? And my back is to him.

And I'm like, Duds, I don't want to move. He's like, all right, I think you're okay now. And I turn around and I look. Sure enough, man, there it is. I'm like, how the hell did you see it? How did it not see us? How did it not hear? That is what I was curious about, too.

I mean, we had good wind. The wind was. Was that his back blowing straight to us? We weren't like hooping and hollering, but I mean, we were. I don't know. Tosh gets excited. He does. I am an excitable thing.

Yeah, yeah. He does, but I, I, I think we were up above him and it tabled down two times. And then he was bedded in right in the middle of this clump of trees, but the sunlight was just shining. It was like, he was just a beacon. And his rack was still in velvet, but it's like about ready to come off.

So it's like a real white. And that just lit up. And I just saw this huge 30 inch rack just up in the air. And I'm like, dude, there's your buck. that that's him. And now, back to your part of the story, Tosh. But yeah, yeah. Like you said, it was a gift.

We were giving a gift. And so he tucked behind the cedar. You explained a couple things to me. You think you got it. And I'm like, yeah, I got it. You said, you said, just keep your eyes on him. Wait for him to move. And then you can figure out what you need to do.

I'm going to go back here and take care of my business. We should probably explain, too. this is getting close to last light, so they're likely going to get up at some point. It was an hour before last light at this time. He was wanting to navigate, and he said, I think I'm going to go over there. And he said, and then I could go over there, which according to the wind and him to get within striking distance was like a strategy. But I said, yeah, every one of those moves, you take your eyes off the prize. You know, you have to strategize a move to where there's always eyes on them.

because what happened at the very end, that was why. Like if, you know, and I actually left you and I went over there and then once I was there for 15 or so minutes looking back, I thought, I need to go back. Well, that's what you did. So you went and took care of your business and I was just doing what you said. Keep my eyes on. I'm looking through the cedar. Bend back over, look at the cedar.

And he's just sitting there. Cool. And I'm like, all right. This is great, man. in a great spot, wind, the light was starting to get in your mind, and you said, we texted real quick. Estimated heart rate at this point. We made eye contact super low.

It was all chill. Yeah, he was chill. He was chill. No problem. I made eye contact with you. You were probably 150 yards that way. I pulled the binos up. We sort of did some hand-and-arm signals.

And then you asked, hey, do you want me to come back over? And I'm like, well, yeah. I mean, why wouldn't you want totally to come? back over if he's going to so you worked your way back around he hadn't moved yet because i said hey i think i'll give him 10 more minutes but we're and then i might move my way back down a little closer because it's going to get hard to see but you said hey man just things are working well we really think he's going to come up when he gets up he's going to come this way come up that draw just pick your shots out so i had everything pinned out ranged out ahead of time 45 cedars 35 cedar 25 cedar 25 and it's like i wanted to shoot him

right here because I know where I'm kind of comfortable shooting. And the site on your bow, just so people have an understanding, because it comes into play later, what describe your site? I think it's, is it the Spothog? Yeah, I game the same as yours. So a vertical fin to

what makes them glow, fiber optic pins. And so then on your dope dial you have two arrows, a top pin and a bottom pin just so for people are listening. So even though you have a bunch of things lasered out, and less they're matching that top pin and your bottom pin.

It's not a gun that shoots flat. Correct. You got math you need to do in your head and you need to, okay, there I need to hold high with this pin, there I need to hold low with that pin. So there's a lot of things going on. Yep. Okay. And I tried to pick it out with those two pins when you spin your dial so that at least

if I put the setting on my dial, I've got two of those three shooting scenarios figured out. And so that's what I did. I dialed it in. I got those two shooting scenarios figured out, fine. So you came over. we were hanging out, we're hanging out, starting to get dark, and you're like, hey, what do you think? And that's what's cool. Like, you're just, hey, what do you think? Hey, this is what I'm thinking.

Yeah, yeah, this is what I'm thinking. It's like, cool. I see where some of the things that I was thinking lined up with you. Yeah. And then I see where some of the things that I was thinking doesn't line up with you. And it's like, cool. And I can go back now, because I'm an analysis guy in the back. I'm always reflecting, always reflecting. And it's like, okay, hey, I see where I was thinking, what I was thinking, and how it was different than him. And now I can put those two together to not think that way or think better the next time. But you said, hey, I'm going to stay up here and I'm going to keep eyes on him. Oh, actually, this is how you said it. He said, hey, what do you think about me? Do you want me just to stay up here and keep eyes on him for you? You

want me to come down there with you? And you let me make the call. Yeah. And I was like, hey, yeah, if you stay here and keep the eyes on them, I'll work it. And you said, hey, get 70 yards. That's your shot. Yeah. 70 yards. If you can get there, drop one. I'm like, all right and I picked where I was going to go I'm working down working down I got myself had a perfect blockers perfect blockers was able to move well the wind was blowing stiff in my face and um I got in him and I went to the left hand side and I worked my way down a little bit peeked around a cedar got the got the finals on him ranged him he was 82 and he was still sitting there and had him like we get cool

I got eyes on him, and I'm looking, and I'm looking, and I'm glassing again. He's at 82. He said 70. So I'm looking around. How am I going to close another 15 yards? Working it. I'm getting my plan. Like, I'm going to move right up here to get my 15 yards.

This is the blocker. Was there more dead space? No more dead space, but I had one more blocker. I couldn't go this way, which is the way I wanted to, but it would have had to cross a 10-yard gap. Yeah. And I was like, ah. And then if I went to the right, I could sneak through and it was going to be loud, but I had good wind and I had the blocker.

So I was going to go right this way through the clump of cedar and oak. And it was 15 yards away. I said, well, that puts me, that'll put me at 67, 68. That's where I want to go. Pick up the binos after I made that decision to look, still there. And I'm just getting ready to go. And I got the buzz from you. and I'm like

I pick up the phone and he's like he's up he's moving he's coming straight at you and he's moving fast and I'm like I got him I'm on it

I said I'm on it yeah put the phone on it and here it is estimated heart rate now let's recheck in on that heart rate I'll tell you it was not resting

how does it spike so fast higher laity dotty do it oh my God It's going to happen. And he was moving like a horse. He was moving like a truck. He was coming in hard.

And I pulled the binos up and I said, okay, I don't need to move. I got eyes on him and he is coming straight at me. Tucked myself back in. I went down to my pin and I said 25 yards. It doesn't matter if he's any closer. At 25 yards, if I put the pin on him, it's hitting. I mean, the margin of error between 25 and 20 and 15. Bottom of the armpit if he's closer.

I was going to ask him where he was going to aim. Where would you have aimed at 7? say he had stood up and stood broadside. So I was, if he stood broadside, I was putting it right on the front shoulder, just like I would have a rifle. He would have set aside. I would have put it center mass dead on the,

and I would just put it right on the front shoulder at 70 yards. He hasn't seen what they do. I haven't. He would look at your arrow and go, bitch, and slide up. And that will be a learning lesson. I wish I had videoed my shot from last night.

I forgot. I literally as I, the shot broke nice and I watched the animal's chest hit the ground as he was backing out and just flew directly over the top because when I was in Linial I could hear in your back of my head was your voice aim at the bottom of the armpit aim at the bottom because you have to let him drop into it yeah I would have never made that mistake you I have never seen an animal more keyed up than an axis at 25 yeah in his defense though at 25 he'd have been fine right at his defense that thing was so calm Like, he, that axis was absolutely confident that he was the only person in that entire, like, within three, 400 yards of them.

Like, the way he walked, he was, like, purposely dragging his feet. Like, I'm the man. I'm the man. I bet you if you would have a shot. I don't think, like, I think he was so convinced that he didn't have anything to worry about. Like, you would have probably, and it was getting very, very low light. And a lot of animals, it gets a point where you can barely make them out and they almost feel like invincible because they feel like nothing can see them. I don't know if you've ever experienced that with deer where you come out and it's like last light and you can just walk by him and they're looking at you like, he can't see me.

I think we were right at that thing. He was confident. He was very confident moving. So I interrupted you though. So he's walking. He's humming right at me. And I am, I'm like, okay, this is going to have. happen. I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to tuck right here, and I'm going to wait, and he's

going to come straight broadside. And when he does, whack. Were you trying to decide between like a euro mount or a full shoulder at that point? No, because my leg, my leg took over. You were asking me what my heart rate was. Yeah. My heart literally went straight down into my right leg, just above the knee, and started going like a jackhammer. And I think a shumbing world, we call that sewing machine leg and you'll see it on exit points and somebody's leg is just hammering out a cross stitch on the rock for whatever reason because they're amped out of their mind and i'm just like whoa he goes my right leg was shaking like a little bit he said it was he's like dude and you want to know what i knew i was doing exactly what i needed to be doing yeah i am this is what this is all

about yeah to feel that adrenaline again to feel that excitement to feel that passion that love yeah that you can tell he's getting into it look how red his face he's like a full blood flow right now because that feels good again I mean you know like are you touching yourself like that feels good again and um how would do would you prefer me to touch myself right now at all I guess I'm trying to stay TG and and so I was like hey and I got happy yeah I got happy that I was feeling that because that meant that like I'm working hard I've got a lot of respect I've got a lot of for what I'm about to do. And it's,

and then I was like, okay, calm down, relax. I settled, I settled the legs down. At this point, you think you were collapsing in a little bit?

I was focused on my shot being here. So that's how it's going to unfold. Yeah, 12 o'clock. I'm watching right here, and I know I'm going to shoot here. Nothing else mattered. Dudley didn't exist anymore.

There's me and this axe as deer, and it was, here we go, here we go. And that leg's going. and I'm happy. And then I just calm it down and I got everything calm down.

Okay, knock. I go start going through my checklist. I hear them. Can't see them now. But I've got my hand in my, is that what we call it? Yeah, I got my hand in my release. I believe that's what it is called.

It's not what we call it, but it's a knock to it. The green beast. And I'm just getting ready to rock, man. I'm like, okay, cool. And I'm saying, okay, Dudley told me, The thumb goes like 45, match your hand, don't torque the string, bent elbow. I'm just going through what you taught me, and I'm like, and then the leg starts happening again. And I'm just like, oh, fuck.

And then it stops moving. It stopped. And I'm like, okay, hey, just calm down. Just calm down. I don't hear it anymore. Why don't I hear it anymore? I can't see it. Yeah.

It's a little too far away. You know, it might have been 40 yards from me the last time I saw it. How much time do you think has passed in what you just described? Five to ten seconds? Ten. Yeah. Ten. Ten seconds.

Took you longer to describe it then for all this to actually happen. Absolutely. You know, but in the moment, it probably was ten minutes. Yeah, from that thing getting up to walking to where all of a sudden I seen him like disappear behind this big clump that he was in. Like I seen him going and then he's like, got him. and then from like that countdown it got to about i remember i was sitting there in my head as soon as he said got him and i was estimating the rate of his walk versus where i saw him i'm like in my head i'm going dink whack

and i'm like playing this out and i'm like about the fourth time i thought uh-oh they're in a stair down like i'm thinking he busted you raising your bow or something because I'm like there. You're at half draw. He's looking at you. Yeah, I'm thinking, I'm like, wait a minute. You know, or I thought they did the infamous like walk up and just no, like for no reason, but just stop and just kind of look around and just kind of make him sweat it out at full draw.

Like I'm thinking that's going down, but then go ahead. I was hoping that was going to, I was hoping that was happening because I lost, I just couldn't hear him. And then, and it's just too dark to see, but I don't want to reach down and pick up my binos because I'm, I'm getting, ready to draw. And then I hear some noise again. And I'm like, fuck, where is that noise coming from? And I'm like, it's back behind my right shoulder. I mean, I'm looking left, and it's back behind my...

And it's just like a sinking feeling. And then... And then you realize you were a bow hunter. A buzz in my pocket. There was a buzz in my pocket as I'm getting ready to pull out the phone to text you that he's by me, because I didn't know if you saw him or not. Yeah. And so I'm going to text you real quick.

He's by me. Your text came in. He's 30 yards away from me, which would have been 40 yards behind me at that point already. And I'm just like, how the hell did he cover that much distance that quick? And now I'm upwind of him. And he's between you and I. And I just said take the shot or take it. Yeah.

I mean, at that point, I mean, we're. Yeah. And so he just was behind me. And back to your question, you see we're talking about like tunnel vision. yeah, I was totally focused here. I wasn't planning. And we talked about that. We went down to assess what I was doing.

Yeah, after everything broke down, he goes, can you come down to where I was? Walking through it, yep. Yeah, so I went down there, and I'm like, dude, this was the perfect spot. And here's why. I'm like, you had ability to see him. You had a blocker for your left shot,

which I think that, like, main little gap was 25 yards. And I said, and if he did come around the right side of you, I'm like, you had a perfect blocker to turn around and get him in a quarter and away shot at 11 yards, which is where he walked. Like to backtrack in my mind when I was going, der-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-td-td-td-t. He was walking that. And then I thought, we walked with his trail. Yeah, and then I thought, no, he's in a stair-down.

And then all of a sudden I could hear, shh, shh, and I looked to the right of that big clump, and the buck walks right around his right side, and stops, and I can see the back of his head and the deer. And then I'm sitting there like, I'm looking at the trunk of this tree I'm at, and I'm thinking, okay, as soon as I hear like, I'm like getting behind the trunk because I thought there's an inbound coming like, heat seeker headed away. I'm thinking friendly fire inbound right now.

Which is not something that you normally think of when you're shooting arrows. I mean, I don't. If you shoot a projectile, you should be thinking. thinking like where that's going but no so then the the buck gets around behind him and what was crazy is it stopped and it was like once it came behind him that was the biggest clump of like brush that that buck couldn't see like I think he was really confident in that bowl and in that hole he knew like he could he could sense anything that was down there but once he passed Tosh and he got into like this clearing that I was in I was in this one little cedar tree at the top

And I think once he got to there he thought I need to check this all out So he sat there and looked around for like 15 or 20 seconds he was I mean right behind him and I kept thinking he's ranging I'm thinking he's ranging he's calibrating I'm like shots coming in shots coming in shots coming in And then all of a sudden he starts going again and he starts coming up towards me and he stops right behind this bush and I range the bush and it was 30 yards and then I'm like that's when I just text him like dude because I knew by then he was 70 yards uphill from him like he's passing this like it's game over for him and uh then yeah yeah that's things play out the way they do that's the second part of the story that might be the third story

fourth or four it's technically that's a cool experience though it was awesome awesome let me ask you this. Did you feel like there was a lot of things happening in that moment? Like when you saw him coming, did you all of a sudden feel like you had a lot of things you needed to do? Yes and no. Yes. And the fact that I was aware. But no and the fact that it would just, like all those things were just like, do, do, do, do, do. You already had to figure it out when you were going to draw back, all that good stuff. Yeah. Through the conversation to him and the coaching and the talking, a little bit of experience hunting. I mean, not as robust as I'd like to have, obviously, but it felt like, okay, the situation's happening really, really quick.

Yeah, and I'm ready. That's exciting. The hardest things that I have found about bow hunting is it seems like it's slow and then everything compresses down on you and you got to get ready to range and then you got to, hopefully you already have an arrow knocked and everything's already set up and it's like you need to get this done. Sometimes it's better things. I've always found this just in life.

If things happen super quick, then training overcomes nerves. Like training and repetition, subconscious is just like, and and you're just like, whoa, okay, the goal was accomplished, but, man, I didn't, like, everything happened. I didn't have time to think about it. But, like, in your situation, you were in this really, it's almost a very risky zone to where it doesn't happen fast enough to where instincts take over, which I think you'd be really good at just from, like, your natural, from what you've done in your past.

if he would have just like came quick I think that would have happened or I think if you would have been able to get out there range him know that you had that long shot set your site go through your checklist think about the things I told you told you and then execute then I think you would have been fine but for you you were in this in-between zone to where you hadn't really fully digested the shot's going to happen and then you look out and you knew you knew that you knew with certainty, it is going to happen. And you had enough time to think, like, I'm going to shoot this thing. You know, what's it going to look like on the ground? How big really is it? I can't wait to freaking high five Dudley. I'm going to be like, you know, here's my first one. Man, I've been waiting for this forever.

Like you had just enough time for that stuff. And then the legs freaking, uh, uh, but if it would have just, if I would all of a sudden said, dude, I lost him. And you'd have been like, what? And he was there. You'd have just been like, and it would have happened. But you're right in that in-between zone.

And that's actually a really dangerous place, not just as a hunter, but as a competitor. When I competed, I really didn't like it when I had just enough time to really think about what the outcome would mean. It's almost like I wanted to just shoot, shoot, shoot, go into the finals boom, and it's like, hey, you won a medal. And I'm like, awesome.

And then I'm out with my friends an hour later and I'm like, I still got a, like, still processing this. But when all of a sudden you have eliminations and then, and this is the case in big tournaments, you have eliminations. And then the way that it plays out, the compound archers always had a one day break before the finals. So like you have a day for friends to be texting you, be like, dude, good luck in the gold medal match you know hey freaking beat this guy remember when you guys had that freaking thing here's your payback and you have all this crap it's like but you get in the end when your outcome is positive it's when you just go back to like you just go right back to the process of what your subconscious would do if you didn't think about it but when you think about it

then that's when you trigger this fighter flight. And if you're a... Sometimes if you're a fighter, you just, like, you're better in that moment. But sometimes when you don't have enough experience in that moment, you're not acclimated to just be like, hell yeah, that's what I'm freaking here for. Damn right.

I mean, this is what I'm here for. This is why I'm good at what I do. But it takes a long time for you to get into that mindset. And I think that's why, you had the trigger that you had. It was good. I like that. I like that.

I like being reminded that. It's humbling, though. It feels that that feeling is exciting to have because when it becomes impersonal or you're not, I like having those. And then they're like having the ones where you've had a lot of time. I mean, I have it when I rifle hunt. You got a lot of time to figure out. And like you're a little bit shaky or you're a little bit this or that.

But then you're just like, hey. I got a little time to let it calm down, let it chill out. And then you make the shot. coming home with a perfectly banged hole exactly where you were aiming at 250, 300 yards. Great. But it's nice every now and then to be dosed with that again and feel alive. Humbolded, yeah. Had that bull, had that bull come out?

Buck. Yeah. Technically, it's a stag by the way. Yeah, I've been corrected on this. Like, Axis are like chittled deer, so technically they're a stag. I get corrected all the time on horns, antlers. stags, bucks, bulls, but you can call it a bull. If this Axis deer had come out and walk that path,

I'd love to look in the eyes and say he'd be on the dinner plate. I was so excited. I mean, I'm just being honest. I don't know. I still had to make the shot. Is that kind of awesome? I didn't even get full draw yet to learn a lot of these other lessons that I know. I wish you had gotten to full draw because that portion of the story would have been amazing.

So he just went around the other side, man. I just want to map this out. I mean, I have confidence in you, dude. I love you. But have you ever seen those people drive down the road? And all of a sudden, like, they're riding a BMX bike. And they, like, got their hands off the wheel and they're just going. They're, like, subconscious taking over.

They're just freaking, you know, going. And then all of a sudden, that front tire, like, starts wobbling. And they, like, it starts like that. And then it's like, who, who, who, who. And even though that only takes a second, you're like, he's done. Like, that leg, where, you're like, that leg, was the chime of your front wheel. I think once you would have started getting back,

I think the freaking wheels would have came off. I would have loved to hear your perspective. I can't wait to learn that lesson. Of anchoring and then trying to hold your pin as it's just like, four feet swing. Well, my pin was on him for momentary as the figure eight was sweet. Or just jack hammering. Just pull through the elbow, Tosh.

Just pull through the elbow. Surprise break is what he told me. It broke on the tree, but I mean. it's so awesome to be in that moment though yeah and we're kind of coming full circle back to where i started on the podcast talking about this is such a good place like you have to acclimate in any type of thing that requires skill and nerves like anything that requires physical and mental assets you can't do that stuff really well without experience you can get lucky you know, you can get lucky.

But experience is what allows you to collect all those thoughts and like take this huge amount of information and digest it down, which even on that stock, when I said, okay, there he is, what would you do? And actually I just said, dude, you know, do your thing. And then you started to go. And then remember you got down to like that second spot? And then I text you, I'm like, hey, hold up a second. And then you, or I called you, and you go, what's up?

And I'm like, okay, are you trying to get down to there? And you go, yeah. And I'm like, check your wind. And you're like, I said, so if he goes right instead of left, which looking back to us, where did he go? He went left instead of right. Well, from his perspective. But from our perspective, he went to the right way. And at the way the wind was blowing at that time, if he would have got a

early, you were done. So I said, and once you get to that spot, like we did that as a desperation move, but when we had a lot of time still, I said, what happens if you get there and he goes, and he goes out in that opening, then what are you going to do? And you're like, nothing, because then you're pinned. So you kind of have to digest all these different things of, yeah, in a perfect situation, this is a perfect, like, move on the chest board, but if all of a sudden he, like, pulls this weird joker out of the, out of the deck. Like, I need to be able to, you know, to recalibrate. And you couldn't.

You know, if you would have done that originally, you would have kind of been there. You would have been pegged. You probably would have been sitting there for a long time. And who knows, a lot of times those bucks, they bet in those in those little dips because the wind, they can feel the wind changing. so that they know they're actually in a very good thermal position to where they're checking constant wind swirls. That's why he was in that bowl. And you know from walking around here,

you take one turn, it's like winds at your back. You go on another curve, it's at your face. He had put himself in a position where he was able to wind check that whole thing constantly throughout the day. So he was totally chill. And I think if you would have got within his wheelhouse for enough amount of time, I think he would have known. I would have think, I think he would have known.

So that's where, at least from my perspective, I said, hey, dude, this is a clean chessboard right now. Like, we're in a good position. He's in a good position. Let him make his first move. And then we're going to adjust. Always open with the Hoffmikers gambit. They don't see if going. What is that?

You have to look it up. I think that was one of the key pieces of advice, takeaways of the 10,000 that I've gotten in three days. Stay in a position where we keep eyes on him. Just everything you do, just stay in a position where he can keep eyes on him so that when he makes his move, you have options. Because if you make a move and then you don't have your eyes on them, if by the time you try to get eyes on again and he made a move,

now you don't know, you're now it's... He's gone. It sucks in that position. Yeah, once you lose visual perspective, then that's it. That's what happened to me this morning. They just kind of ghosted off behind the cover that I was using. I never saw them re-emerged from the other side, and I worked my way around. Well, that happened to us on the Rams.

So Andy and I chased these Rams for eight miles, right? Technically. They were walking out a bit. Eight miles. And then all sudden, just stupid things happened to where, I feel like there was a lot of things to where one small thing put us at a disadvantage and they maximized on it. Yeah, sniper was paying attention.

Yeah, he was. But he wasn't just paying attention to us. He was paying attention to, you know, we were following them and all of a sudden we blew some white-tailed does out that were like 200 yards away. And they started snorting, so then it got their attention up. But once we lost visual of them, if we went back to that same spot and tried hunting there all night. We were two miles from where I

you know, it just happened to be luck that like I got dropped in one place, Tosh got dropped in another place and we were essentially working towards. Converged. Yeah, we were converging towards the same area and then it just so happened that I was able to pick up

on those sheep again and then you know everything happened on Hamburger Hill. Well even the group that I shot at was all the way back there. I mean, they were all on the hoof all day long. Yeah. One thing that's important to me and one reason

why, you know, I really wanted to make sure you were like set in archery. Like set up right. Because obviously you've shot for two years now, but you've just been frustrated because it's unfortunate, but you didn't have anyone really spend time with you at the beginning.

So you've been trying, like you said, you went down YouTube trails. You went you did everything you could to like learn on your own but you know so that's why i really wanted to come down here and and i'm thankful andy came down too to where we could all be together teach you to shoot and then obviously these experiences but a big reason why this is so important for me for like andy was one our buddy Trevor Thompson was another one another one bridges the same way jaco like i just really feel like for all you guys that are, you know, heroes in America's minds with what you guys went through.

Like, this, this just seems like such a stress relief. I don't know if it's stress relief. I don't know. I mean, Andy, you can probably help me with that. But it seems like it's a trans, it's like this transition to where you guys really. I'd say it's therapeutic in a way, but I can't. Yeah, that is the better word. Exactly put my finger on why.

Like, yeah, what do you think, what do you think, Tosh? I think it's a connection, a very tight connection to a lot of the things that we used to do, being outdoors, putting together a strategy, reading the terrain, paying attention to the wind in a totally different way, going up against an adversary that has a vote and how the outcome, and like putting all those things together. I don't know how that ends up being therapeutic, other than the fact that maybe guys, myself included, maybe miss that internally more than we're willing to check in with or recognize, but then being able to tap back into that. I mean, it's obviously not the same thing, but it's pretty close.

Yeah, I mean, I've always enjoyed hunting. I've always enjoyed being outdoors. The intimacy of this is incredible, right? Yeah. After some of the experiences, you're, man, your adrenaline spikes and troughs and spikes and troughs through the days of whatever we've done. Like, bang, bang, bang.

And now you're kind of living even keel. It's cool. We manage. It's adaptive, but then you still need it. You're still thinking I need it, you know, or whatever. And a lot of people resort to methamphetamines,

right? To feel that amp or whatever. They resort to we talked on our podcast. Maybe a lot of dare. Daredevil. shit for the sake of the air devil's extreme behavior not because they enjoy

the behavior they're like the chemical release that they get from their body in this there's something cool there there's something really cool like my leg shaking made me happy I'm alive made me feel alive like I'm not

emotion list or it's like there you probably could have video from back here from the ranch it was shaking so bad dude it was it was that on Instagram it was one of the first two things he told me he's like He's like, dude. Because when I, well, I shot that buck. That buck ended up coming by me at like six yards.

So I didn't. Self defense at that point. I gave him a chest wound he couldn't sustain. And that strobing lock was just like barely hanging out of his chest. So Tosh got to see it like streak across the darkness and then start doing somersaults. And he came up. He's like, dude. holy shit you know how sometimes after you shoot like you wait for a couple minutes that things settle

maybe not with bow hunting at least with rifle it's like oh we're we're going to give him 15 minutes there was no doubt in my mind after i just saw the streak and then i heard a snowplow into the rocks and i literally just started walking straight towards you it was done it was done you know you know he comes up he's like he's like bro are you pumped i'm like yeah and he goes my leg was shaking like a little Like, that's what his, like, it was the second thing he said. He's like, yo, bro, I'm glad you got him because you know what? My leg was just shaking like a little bitch. He's an excitable man.

I'm okay. I'm okay. And I'm okay with it. I know you are. You should be. Yeah, that's the bet. Just don't judge me because I'm less excitable. I have the same excitement on the inside.

You know, that was a cool conversation we had the other night. It was just dumb because I'm like, I come back after you shot your move. And I'm jazz. I'm so happy for you. You were jumping up and down picking me up. And you were just kind of like in your mellow place. I'm just like, are you?

But you're internally processing your jazz. I'm externally processing mine. It's cool to see that and different people and numb. I feel, I think back to what you were saying is I feel alive. Yeah. I feel alive in a good way and appreciative

that I'm alive and against an adversary that's working against you. And I'm fortunate enough that when I make a mistake, mistake, I'm not alive. When I make a mistake, all I get to come back with is an opportunity to reflect and learn and grow and appreciate. You know what I mean? One of the biggest things that helped me after some serious failures after Hunt and

Medellie the first time was just the realization. Like, the absolute worst case scenario is that the animal walks off. Like, oh. I was so pissed and then I had gotten myself to where I was rushing a couple shots like I would get to that moment it was like I gotta do nine things maybe not let's just fire this thing off to see what happens

surprisingly enough it didn't go well shocker really and I was so pissed at myself and then I finally realized it's like what's the worst case scenario even when I drew back on the muflan like we're moving up and it's like so one thing I was asking about is you're breathing do you focus on your breathing

I do. I remind myself to deep breath, exhale, and then try to, I want to really just spend my time at the bottom of my exhale. No, I mean leading up to it. So like even like when we were moving up, so we were chasing the herd and then we saw the other move flound and we broke off. And I knew a shot was probably going to happen. I start thinking about it there to get it. I think that's a great way to settle the rest of your body. Because I'm sure I'm capable of doing the sewing machine as well. I've seen it many times. love that but one thing that helps so I start thinking about my breathing way before to try to manage it and if I feel any for me what I'll feel when I start getting amped up is I'll feel a heat in my face like that's one of the indications that I've found just over the years and if I feel that the first thing I go to is my breathing I start trying to calm down and then we got into a position yesterday to shoot and Dully was

ranging and I dialed in and right as I draw back and right when I anchor and I'm letting the pen settle in my head I'm like, dude, what's the worst case scenario? Instead of worrying about like everything that could possibly go wrong, I'm like, because I'm looking at him and I thought he might run off and it's like, cool, I'll find you in 30 minutes. You know, so I try to remove all of that pressure and I still, I would call it a below average shot because I was a little bit bubbled off, which had an impact on where the arrow actually impacted.

Fortunately, I would say the broadhead in that case saved me. Perfect example of where an expandable can save you over a fix because of the the extended cutting area, but... That was a massive cut. Massive cut. It gets... The blood trails are not hard to follow. You know, it's...

The thing was over in five seconds. He was over five yards, or not five years, but probably five seconds after he left our field of view. Yeah. But it feel comfortable in that moment because in the back of my mind,

it's like, oh, if he runs off, it's, I'm not rushing it anymore. Even, or yesterday when I missed that axis, and I took my time and, like, scoched my... way over took my time he was why can't they stand still it's very irritating he'd go to this side and he'd come back to this side and then he'd show me his butt and then he'd show me his face so I'm just sitting there like can you please hold still so I can kill you what's your problem but drew

back in fire and he matrix me but I still had a smile on my face because it's like what's I'll come back tomorrow I think the worst thing that can happen I think breathing is like 50% of the equation. If you've triggered that fight or flight, I think breathing is like, listen, you need to breathe, which you've taught me that on skydiving. There's been times where, and I don't think I've felt that so much in the air, but in the wind tunnel, because I know we're practicing technique. Yeah, people hold their breath. I'm really critical because there's, it's not like I feel like if I'm not doing something right, I'm going to die. I'm just, I'm practicing fundamentals in the wind tunnel. And there's times

where and you'll just look at me and be like, dude, you know, freaking relax. This is the most common signal. Yeah, just relax. And in there, they're in there like, I'm relaxed. What are you talking about? My face is red. It's just like. I haven't breathed in like two minutes. It's like exhale.

And then they do and all of a sudden it's like, ah, they fly perfectly. I think breathing is 50% of the equation. I think the other 50% at least in this process. It's just, I feel like if I go through my routine in my head, it helps get my conscious thoughts off like the prize or the nervousness.

And it just like, it helps me forget about that. And then it's like, okay, breathe. What's my process? Stance, grip, shoulder, anchor, Pete, execute, finish. Do you talk yourself through that even when there's an animal on the other side of your pin yeah yeah i go through that step and then normally like once once something gets to the position i like in my mind i say checkmate a lot like that triggers my shot routine like once i see that and i'm you know and i kind of see that i almost see the cards unfolding like it's like i've counted the deck

and also and i like see that and i'm like checkmate you're dead and then it's just you're just like dootoo-to-to-to-to-to-to-to-to-to-to-to and then it happens and then it's game over you know once I see that situation it's like you made the mistake this like it's done you know and so breathing's important especially if you there's been times where I've got nervous and I'll be you know I'll breathe I'll check my pulse and then it's like okay what matters most shot routine like if you if you do the fundamentals the outcome is the same every time if you don't do the fundamentals it's on the house what do they want to deal you you know it's like if i do the fundamentals all the time then i get a freaking 10 jack queen king ace is that good no if i don't is that four of the kind

if I was playing guard Z full house awesome oh yeah oh you got up four you got five in a row no that's not good yeah two ace three five that's way better yeah different suits no I think if you as long as you lay out those cards

that way then it's like this is game over but if you all of a sudden just like shuffle the deck because you're spazzed out and you're just like shit, I'm just going to then it's like, what do I got? What do I got?

I think it's fun to do that sometimes too, though. It is. It is. I can't say I've never done that. I certainly have. And I think it's worked out. Dudes, I got a pack. One time.

What are you talking about? What time's your flight? Well, it's an hour and a two hours there? How far is it? Hour and a half there? A hour and a half? Hour 45. Yeah, two hours there.

Yeah, we got a roll. Take your head. it off. Tosh and I aren't done. Okay, you guys can roll. See, his is off now. Say something, Tosh. Hey, I'm here. Oh, no, you're not. What did I do? No, you're good. I feel like I'm here. I feel like you're here too. I don't touch. Because your microphone's so far away. It's a cool little thing you've got going on. It's a zoom. I won't turn it off when it's recording. His is still on. Unfortunate. You just can't unplug them? I could unplug it, but I don't know what that would do. And in my luck, it would probably somehow completely erase the card. Gotcha.

So when are you coming back? I should say, what's your plan going forward with your bow? Oh, man. So I'm going, I'm going to do school at knock, obviously. So I was, Dudd sent me a text message. Hey, man, what's your draw length? Or hey, bro, what's your draw length? I immediately, my leg started shaking.

You know what I'm saying? And I was like, I went upstairs, put a pencil mark on a wall. Try to pencil mark and try to look at my other bow. and I knew the other bow was short. It was 29. So you had never hunted with the other bow, though, right? You had just... I've hunted.

This is my third year bow hunting. Okay. You know, I took that bow. I mean, I shot a bear with it. It just the arrow bounced out of its shoulder socket. I mean, if I was an inch left. Yeah. And, you know, so I've been practicing, but, you know,

it's just self-taught. And then texting you and texting Dudley, hey do this do that then Dudley will do like a live cast feed and you'd look at that and yeah you know when you text me with archery questions just so you know I just cut and paste it and text it to tell me because I don't know the answers to it I'm you actually have more bohunting experience than I do if you've been doing it for three years I'm 18 months in this will be my third year yeah but I have not this year actually uh shooting at that bear was the first arrow I threw at any animal you know so I've been both

hunting for and not not have not not not even drawn and then um come down here and duds put together that brand new hoit which is like world-class Cadillac it's like whoa man I've been I've been riding in a Volkswagen actually fitted to you the draw length is correct it's probably weighted much more appropriately for you yeah yeah you know you're going to a local sport and good store and the you know the archery pro he's just more of like a archery actively interested as a hobby. Who knows? You never know, right?

So I think that's a good point. I have found it to be hit or miss. Yeah, I found it to be hit or miss. There was a store up where I live that specialized mostly, if not exclusively, in Matthew's product. And I have never shot a Matthews, so I have no value judgment on the product whatsoever. I just happened to be introduced to bow hunting through Hoyts. So I took my Hoyt in there and they, I sent it to Dudley after they were done working on it. So he could redo it.

rewind what had happened. So it's, I'm sure if I had gone there with the Matthews, they probably would have been fine. So it's, and I get hit up with this question a lot, too. People say,

where should I start? How do I get into bow hunting? And I just point them all towards the tall gentleman who's off packing now. Yeah. I think that we did a podcast about that. And just,

I mean, once you get to a certain class bow, I mean, they're all great. But it's the, when you take it to the store, like don't get somebody that hasn't been taught

and isn't a Hoyt tech to dial in your mouth, Matthews because the bows are different. Yeah. But anyways, I get this, I mean, man, and then I'm down here, we meet down here, and then I'm starting to shoot and pick up a couple lessons real quick and just, yeah, I'm feeling confident. Like, I'm going back to Colorado when I get back there.

I got another week on the road, and then I'm going to start week one school a knock with the bow and the knock to it so that I can do everything appropriate to, instead of trying to say, well, I've got this or I've got that or this or that. And I'm sure it's the same. Who knows? I feel more legit going through it there. And I'm just going to get reps and reps and reps so that next year, when I have an opportunity, or if I come back down here to Texas to this ranch and say, hey, man, maybe I want to go after some.

I'm not interested in this year. I'm fascinated with the accident here. And I'll continue to try to hunt those things and get beat up by them. Yeah. You know? And there might be some value when you do just doing some stocks on the sheet. Yeah, right. Like, if you see them, might as well stalk them and see if you can get into a shooting scenario.

Yeah. You know, I mean, would be great. I mean, even take that down training guide that duds. Oh, the right release? Yeah, why not? I mean, I don't want to waste. But, I mean, I don't want to, I'm not interested in shooting a sheep. I just feel like there's a lot of value in practicing a live stock.

Yeah. Oh, 100%. Because spot in stock hunting, in my opinion, at least, half the time I think spotting it is equally as hard as the stock. walking around like that first day 12 and a half miles or just a little bit over 12 and half miles I did not see an axis deer the entire time so I saw those sheep yeah all day I had no idea that we were actually able to hunt them because we were just walking past them and they're like hey buddy what's going on good to see you again they were totally our bros just because they

knew you weren't hunting them correct and the next day they totally changed their attitude so they're definitely assholes but um yeah spotting them is hard and then the stock trying to figure out the geometry of how you're going to get into it. I think there's value in both. So maybe not, if you come down here and you can't find the axis or you can find those sheep, dude, I would do a stock on them. I'd practice at least. The one thing that has been hard for me is the wind. Because thinking about it from a non-ballistic perspective, even though it'll obviously move your arrow a little bit, I never once thought about wind in my previous job. I didn't care if it didn't matter. I only thought about it from how far would it move the round. And I only thought about that,

like maybe like the 300 wind meg outside of 600 yards because that thing is just eating into it you know up until or up until 600 beyond that point when it becomes much more of an issue but I don't know man stock the hell out of those things was fun you had a good time I mean you had a blast man put some stocks on I did I took let me see I took two shots I you know 50 one 50 percent I have that axis I should have had that axis last night and completely forgot how there reaction is to the sound of the bow. I cannot describe it. I hope that you get to, I don't want you to have a situation where you miss because of it, but I kind of do. So you'll understand how quickly they maneuver. Because when we went to, I went to Lanai with Barclow from Sica,

and it took me three days, I think, to get my first one. I would aim, you know, right in the pocket, doink, and that thing was six feet away by the time the arrow got there. No kidding. It seemed like it. I'm sure it missed it by about an inch, but it was intimately frustrating. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

that's a whole new chapter of lessons that I've yet to learn. That's exciting to me. Every chapter that you feel like you've read and then you went back and you've reread and you're working. Yeah. You know there's another chapter to learn. I want you to put a GoPro on your stabilizer, though.

Because that'll be the very end. And if you are, in fact, sewing machine that thing, that'd be the best video ever. Oh, my God. That would be funny. That would be funny. I have had a GoPro on my stabilizer. I think hunting five or six times,

I have yet to remember to actually turn it on in the moment that counts. I forget every single time. I am completely not paying attention to any media capturing whatsoever. And then fortunately, Dudley's usually back there with his cell phone. What's next for you, man? What else you got going on other than hanging out in Texas for a bit? You're telling me about these races you're going to do. Yeah, headed to New Zealand for an adventure race on the world stage,

which is amazing 10-day. 10-day, I think we're going to cover 450 miles or something like that. And you're still in your normal training protocol, which is you start a couple days before? Yeah, PBR. I just want to make sure you hadn't actually started training for any of these endurance races that you show up with your cotton sweats and a Ziploc bag with your race credentials.

Right. You've been talking to Chris. You know, I mean, life is training. That's just how I approach it. We talked about it on the first podcast, man. everything you do like everything that I did down here was training building skills learning about yourself in different situations knowing that you can be okay when everything else is telling you that you could reasonably not feel okay and just

say hey but I'm okay and yeah adapting I think I have a little bit of wait I need to lean up I should probably at this point in the game I always used to say it's ages and one of those things I don't like the people oh I'm so old I'm so old I can't stand here that from people oh i'm getting old old old age you know what like all of a sudden the last couple years i'm starting to notice some things and it's like okay hey maybe maybe it's not necessarily i need to train but the maintenance the maintenance effort yeah should be a little higher than it used to be you know um practice i believe in practice practice practice practice i think practice and training is two different things so um i try not to use the words interchangeably but i'll you know i'm

to get on the mountain bike again and get some practice in get my balance are you going to be on mountain bikes for that race yep yeah yeah i mean we'll do i think they just advertise that they're it's god zone god zone chapter eight down in new zealand 60% of the race is going to be in kayaks so you know get i need to get back in the kayak and need to get my paddles dusted off and get them in the water and just work that technique and knowing that you're going to do 250 miles over the course is 10 days on your damn kayak. Yeah, that's a lot. So I need to probably practice with my knots and my climbing skills because we're going

to be doing some ascension and some repelling. I think I've actually seen a video of this race. It was long ago, though, because I saw people rappelling down this huge cliff. They were in water. They were on bikes and they were running. Yeah. For some reason, though, they were, I remember one of the clips they were running next to their bikes.

I don't know why they weren't riding them. I don't know what's going to cause you to do that. It just depends on what race. I mean, I've had my bikes. I've repelled with my bike before. I mean, hike a bike section, climbing these massive mount bushwhacking. Yeah.

You know, Oh, that's got to be fun to carry a mountain. Now I got my bike with me. Why am I got my bike when I spent, you know, 80% of this leg, there's a 40 mile leg, and I'm spending 80% of it pushing and carrying my bike.

But, you know, it's cool. Yeah. So I'm into that. So I'm going to hit that. And then we've got our, I think we're going to do the Eco Challenge just got re-release, Mark Burnett's bringing it back, and I think I'm on this pro team to do Eco Challenge in Fiji in the fall.

So those will be my two big race events that I'll do. For the year? Yeah, I don't think I'm interested in doing too many more. I got to get some time back at home. My feet underneath myself. I'm just on the road, moving, traveling. You don't want to say no to anybody, so you always say yes, and it's... I know.

It's amazing how fast it starts slipping away. Before you know at the carpet, I mean, I'm in... We were talking about this before the podcast, like, behind. is a understatement. You think you're catching up, like, because you have, you know, your device and you can kind of like pay attention to what's coming in.

Dude. Then you start realizing, oh, six days, seven days, eight days, 14 days. The only thing you're catching up on is your awareness of how far behind you are. Pretty much. Right. And open every email with,

I apologize, I am an asshole. We were walking back today, John and I, and he's like asking me, what do you got playing? Man, this and that. I'm like, man, I'm on the road for this, that, this, that. I got to come back down to Texas, Delaclin for Air Force Base gig and this and that, this and that.

I'm on the road, I need a break. And I'm like, whoa, wait a minute. That's what these last three days of you were. Like, this was my break. Yeah. And it was cool. So how about you? What's the next?

What do I have next? I actually get some time at home to chill for a bit. So we're in like peak snow season. How is the snowpack where you guys are? Oh, Nicole said they got dumped on for like. four days in a row, so we've got a lot of snow this year. Which is good, because you were light last year, right? We were up at Estes Park, and it was, you could tell that they had a light snow year.

So actually having some people come to us, so Dudley and Sharon are going to come out and board for a bit. Cool. The ranch he was at West is going to come out and hang at the same time. And just basically for the month of February, I think I'm going to be able to stay local for quite some time. Good. Which, yeah, it's, I'm actively seeking ways to try to maximize my time at home because

there's just a lot of stuff I like doing. where I can only do it at home. You know? Just started doing jiu-jitsu like six months ago, which I can only train at home, and it sucks to leave for three weeks to come back and be like, can we start over at day one again

because I think I forgot everything, that type of stuff. How come you can only do that at home? I don't know. I've never traveled around and done, like visited any other gyms. Okay. I'm sure that I could.

But I kind of just don't want to. I really like the vibe at the gym where I train at now. The people there are awesome and it's, I don't know, it's just cool. And I'm sure a lot of people like it wherever they get that entry point into that particular activity. They seem to enjoy it. And then what else?

We have some hunts lined up with Dudley. It's interesting. The season almost seems to never end because it's like, hey, we'll go here and do this and we'll go there and do that. And then, you know, end of August, early September is pinned to the ground for elk season. So there's the Alberta trip, which is the elk opener. and then there's the, what is it? Yeah, September is true elk season in Montana, which you need to come get some Western hunt action.

Well, you live in a Western state. Yeah, I mean, we had an opportunity, we had an opportunity to what, some big elk down here on the ranch. Which is bizarre to me that there's elk in Texas. Yeah, and they're gorgeous, and they're huge. And, you know, I mean, the ranch school is like, yeah, hey, go ahead and take one. Like, right, I mean, Nick was saying, yeah, she had an elk if you know, she'll know, she'll elk.

and it was Dudley and I walked up to walked up to a herd of five or six of them today and we weren't really hunting them. We were literally just reading the wind and we're glassing and trying to read the wind which way we wanted to walk and he's like, I think there's elk over there. And we look over there and sure not, there's elk. But we weren't, we're glassing them.

And it's like, hey man, I'm not interested in shooting an elk like this. I want my elk. hunt to be one of those in the woods, the bugling, the excitement, the thing charging in on you, like you see the breath. Like I want one of those epic, iconic elk hunts. And so I'm holding myself back for one of those, man. So if you say, Tosh, you need to be here on this date, I'm there, man. I want that so bad.

Well, I think you're obviously welcome in Montana. The issue is the draw because you're a non-resident. For myself and Barclough, it's a guarantee, I believe, for archery only. Or if not, like, the high 90th percentile you're going to draw. But for anybody outside of that, you are, you got to do the draw. Who's calling me? Is it you or me? I was fine.

So over-the-counter tags for non-residents, any unit? Or is it still lottery? I don't know enough about it to answer that question accurately. I know that you're going to have to apply through the month. Well, here's what I'll do. I'll work with Barclow and you can just apply. And I think it's a general tag. It comes with an elk tag and a deer tag.

Oh, cool. Either sex, I believe, for both. So antler or antlerless. And that gets you, that general tag is good for all of the non-hydra districts. Like there's an area in Montana, which I have no experience with called the Missouri Brakes. Everybody talks about it.

Like, it's unbelievable. I've never hunted there. I've heard amazing things, but your odds of drawing a tag, there and mine actually are very very low. So I think we're focusing on a general tag hunt in a general area where if you guys can just get the lottery, which I believe is a high percentage just for that general tag, then bring it. Yeah, man.

And you can do 200 miles underfoot like we did before that thing came in. I was following you, dude, following you. I was pretty tired of walking. I was just watching just waiting for an update, taxed, and you got a roll? Yeah, my place is at four. Oh, what time is it? 12.30. All right.

So five more minutes, though. Tell me about your podcast. I want people to listen to your podcast. Oh, I don't know, man. I'm just, it's different, different format. I don't do interviews or anything like that yet. I just made a commitment. And it's basically I get on once a week and I just talk.

I just talk to myself out loud. I mean, about something that's on my mind for that week. So I don't rehearse it. I don't script it. There'll be a theme. You know, I've got my glass. board at home. I've got like four or five themes of things I want to think about. And inevitably, like they're on your head and you're processing them and you're digesting them in your head.

And it's like, I just want to share them out loud. And so that's all it is. It's just me rambling on for anywhere from 15 to 25 minutes. I try to keep them short on a something, something that I've been triggered by. Well, you forget the most important part, though. What's that called? Oh, Crooked. Cricket Butterfly podcast.

Yeah. Crooked Butterfly podcast. You can listen to me Rambl for 25 minutes on something that's got me tuned up. Perfect. Hey, Duds, don't pack that jacket that I'm stealing from you. What's that? You want Andy's? No, that's my magic jacket.

I'm going to go over there and unzip your luggage and take it. Go shopping. All right, man. Thanks for having us down here. Appreciate it. Super awesome, bro. That's it for this week, everybody. First and foremost, before I forget, thanks to RX Bar for supporting cleared hot.

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