Cleared Hot - Powered By BRCC - Cleared Hot Episode 86 - Ryan Michler

Episode Date: June 24, 2019

Ryan Michler is the founder/creator of the Order of Man, a community and resource designed to help men improve every aspect of their lives from family, money, parenting, responsibility, etc. He is a Veteran, a white belt in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, and as of last week, a resident of the great state of Maine. We discussed our experiences on the mat, the dangers and allure of "connectivity" and connection with our children and their peers on social media, and of course, why his family decided to make the move from Utah to Maine. Order of Man

Okay, so I've lived in Montana now for almost two years. July 1st, which is, look at the calendar here real fast, about a week away, will be the two-year anniversary of crossing the border into Montana from California. And when I solicit for questions, Q&A style, on social media, a very common question is why did we decide to make the move? and then also what do we like about Montana? Why Montana? And one question I also get asked is can I find anything negative about living in Montana? And I was finally able to do so. I think I've actually addressed why we made the move and why we chose Montana previously, so I'll skip that. I have found something about living in Montana that kind of sucks. And I suspect this is the case for anyone who lives in a mountain state. And I say that only because this never really happened to me when I was living in San Diego or really anywhere else that I can think of. But here it is. You're driving along. And I don't know if this is because of the winters and the fact that there's a bunch of snow

and they put salt on the roads and they're always out there scraping the roads or whatever it is. But you're driving along in your car or truck. It just needs to be a truck. All right, you can have a car if you want to. It's not a big deal, but just trade your car in and get a truck. You can pick whatever model truck you want to, but just get a truck. Stop messing around. But you're driving along in your truck.

You're enjoying the view, and then you hear a tink, and you look up at your windshield, and it's at the very least, a small chunk is taken out of it, which turns into a crack. And I don't know how many times this has happened to me up here. But I'll catch it and I'll just see this rock flying through the air in super slow motion. And it comes and it dings my windshield. And it drives me bad shit crazy. And it seems to happen up here more often. Like I said, I don't think I've ever had it happen to me.

I lived in Virginia. I don't think it happened. San Diego. Santa Cruz. I don't think it happened in any of those places. And it has to, I'm assuming, have something to do with how they treat the roads or somehow more rocks get on the road. And the absolute worst is when you get stuck behind a semi. And so I try to back my truck up.

I've tried being close. And either way, I'll see it time and time again. This super slow motion, you see this rock go flying up into the air, and you know it's going to hit your windshield. There's nothing you can do about it. And it just sucks. So that's what sucks about being in Montana, getting stuck behind a semi in your truck. Now, you know what else sucks if you're a dude?

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Man very much on this particular podcast. So he is a repeat guest, and if you want to go back and learn more about specifically Order of Man, go to episode 46, and you will find him there. Or it might be 64. Holy cow. Okay, it's either 46 or 64. You're going to have to figure that out on your own. His name is Ryan Mickler. So if you see his name, click on it if you're interested. Briefly, though, I'm going to describe what I consider Order of Man to be. And you could also, of course, go to order of man.com and hit the start here button.

It's a community, though, for men trying to improve areas of their life. And I dig it. I find myself on the middle on most issues. So I don't agree with everything ever, generally. But I do support people getting together and trying to better themselves. And I think women should do that. I think there should be support groups for kids and teens, or not even necessarily support groups.

How about communities where they can interface and share experiences in collective knowledge, which is always going to be more powerful than individual knowledge? And for men, too. I don't look at it as anything where you'll hear people say, oh, it's exclusive or it's an elitist. I don't see that being the case at all. I see it being an organization for people to come together, to try to support one another as a man, as a father,

in a family, in a household, and I think those are great things. Ryan is an awesome guy. He actually just uprooted his family from Utah and moved to the great state of Maine, which is where we linked up. He is friends with Origin USA, which are the individuals that I was out there to hang out there with as well. I was out there to go on their podcast. They came on my podcast. Actually, episode 85 is with them.

He started in Jiu-Jitsu just like I am, so we rolled around a little bit. I relieved him of a little bit of his beard on the mats, which his beard is ridiculously long. It's much longer than the picture posted on the Order of Man website. And I was trying to choke his face and his beard got in the way. so I moved it. I didn't mean to move as much of it as I did, and I also didn't mean to pull it out of his face, but, you know, whatever. It kind of happens.

Two white belts are rolling. You just need to stand back. You need a full blood circle, give us as much space as possible, and don't judge us. All right, white belts are people, too. So he's got that. He just moved his family,

and he's getting ready to do his first order man event there in Maine, and we talked about all that. And also kind of, I have to say, more parenting, kind of things going on in our lives. Right now, I'm struggling. I'm at the limits of my parenting capacity on a few issues. And for those of you out there who are parents, I'm sure you would agree.

There is no recipe. There is no structure. There is no book that explains how to parent through every issue. And right now, we're dealing with some stuff that I needed some advice on. So I asked for some advice from Ryan, and we chatted. Chatted quite a bit. So I'm going to shut up and let you get into the podcast, because that's what you guys are here for. episode 86 with Ryan Mickler

hope you enjoy the red smoke I'm looking at danger close now what a minute can't be cleared hot the community we came from is basically a piranha tank and at all times

you're searching for blood on your best friend so you can consume them I've actually thought a lot about that I've got a theory about why that is but I'd like to hear your thoughts okay so we have to restart

so this I've been on your podcast Order of Man I've been on my podcast cleared hot we're both in Maine right now so instead of doing two podcasts. We're going to knock it out. Combined, Order of Man and Clear It Hot. We'll get to the Shark Tank in a minute.

Yeah. Why'd you move? Tell me about the last two weeks of your life, man. It's been crazy. It's been crazy. I mean, you kind of know because you made a move too, not that long ago. I'm about two years ahead of you. Two years, yeah. July 1st is actually our two-year anniversary of crossing the border into Montana. Yeah. Yeah. So I think there's a lot of people who don't understand why I would do that because there's a lot of risk and uncertainty with it.

I mean, risk. There's no risk, really. There's just uncertainty with it. It would depend on how you define risk. There's certainly a lot of uncertainty. I guess the biggest risk would be that it would not be what you would expected and it would hinder your life in some way. I mean, but really would it? That's manageable. Exactly. Because, you know, we get out here, let's say worst case scenario, we hate it. We don't enjoy it. And so what do we do? We move back. You know, we kept our home there in Utah and that's just fine. You know, but with the work and everything that we're doing, I mean, we've got, we've got the opportunities to do this anywhere. How's you? How you land on Maine then? I mean it's not exactly down the street from Utah. Yeah, I mean,

it's as far as I could go and still be in the States, but I was introduced to Maine through Pete last year. I came out to their immersion camp and fell in love with it, which I mean, of course, it was in August. Yeah, end of August. So it's getting into the fall. It's beautiful. The weather's mild. So I'm sending my wife pictures and video. I'm like, hey, check this out. She's like, yeah, of course it's beautiful right now. Yeah. Go back in the winter. I mean, it's going to have a a little bit of a sting to it. People say the same thing to be about Montana. How do you survive the winters? And I just say, I have a really nice jacket. Right. It's jacket. You've got heat. It's survivable. I'm not doing like the Star Wars thing where I'm running around being chased by those

dinosaur creatures. Exactly. There's almost a million and a half people in Maine and they do it every year. Yep. And they've been here for what, 300 years? Yeah, it's going to be okay. Yeah. We'll figure it out. Yeah. It's going to be cold, no doubt. I enjoy it though. I think the, winter months, and again, I've only been through two full time now in Montana. And there are people who have lived there a very long time. It's not their favorite time of year because it's, you know, it changes your pace of life, but I kind of dig it. Yeah. I mean, I like walking out and just seeing pristine white and snow falling. But I also like snow activities. Yeah. So that helps. Do you snowboard or ski? I do snowboard. Yeah. Um, my, I had a snowboarding experience

well over 20 years ago where it's basically it was five seconds long and involved me getting turned around backwards, catching my rear edge and knocking myself out. Like you went out? Yes. And then when I woke up, it was, of course, in the middle of the military training trip. I had no knowledge technique or instruction on the snowboard. I took it off my feet, kicked it off down the hill and said I would never, ever, ever, ever try snowboarding again. And then my brother-in-law, we purchased a house in Montana in 2016, which was really the impetus to get us up there.

We spent the entire month of December in that house. and my brother-in-law just rips on a board and he threw on a Jeremy Jones movie and he's got the deeper further higher series and I just was like what is this and it was all splitboarding backcountry foot power type stuff

and the next day I think we went to the resort and I rented the snowboard and then that probably appeals to your I don't know just your adventurous nature I imagine it was that and it looked like the sensation even from a video visual perspective. I mean, to me, and I'm not a good skier by any stretch, but it's like a

teeth chattering, you know, like very hard on the knees. And I'm watching these guys bored and it just looked like they were floating and just switching edge. I'm like, that looks amazing. Yeah. Which, because that was not the experience I had the first time on a snowboard. It is pretty cool when it's all powder like that. I mean, I've been. There's nothing that feels like a powder day. It's amazing. I've been snowboarding maybe a dozen or so times, not very many. And, And it's absolutely unbelievable. I had a three-day stretch. Dudley was actually here for this.

He came up and visited in Montana last holiday season. Oh, I think I saw you guys got together. And so he got his first time on a board because he got introduced to a guy named Mark Carter, who's a professional snowboarder, one of the coolest dudes ever. He knows Brian Noguchi, who has a snowboarding, you know, a brand, essentially. So, Dudley's got this brand new board. And, of course, the time that Dudley shows up, it was like the perfect storm. My brother-in-law was there for this too. It just nuked 12 to 16 inches of snow every night.

And we were staying at the resort. And I didn't feel the bottom of the resort for three days. Just powder run after powder. It was unbelievable. That's nice. And you're going to be hooked after that. Oh, no doubt. For sure.

And then once you get into it. And I was being wildly aggressive and just doing things I should have never done because there was little to no consequences. Right. And I almost folded my spine in half on a scorpion. I don't recommend it. Yeah, that's the trap. It's like, I don't know if it's nature's way of like pulling

you in and sucking you in, but it gives you the perfect conditions. Like I remember even in hunting and I'm sure we can get into this. It's like I went hunting with a buddy of mine and Colin Cottrell and he invited me down and the first day we saw we saw a deer. I shot it at 75 yards with my rifle. Third day, another white tail came in, shot him at 20 yards with my bow and I'm like, what the hell's everybody complaining about? This is easy. And then the rest of your hunting life will be spent. This sucks. Yeah. Having terrible experiences. Yeah, it's pretty much. Yeah. Time we go. I actually had a similar experience with your snowboarding experience when I went skiing. So I moved to a small mountain town in Utah when I was in ninth grade.

And my father, or my stepdad had us come up because he had been skiing for decades. And I did what can only be described as like an inverted helicopter spin on those skis. Skis went flying both ways. I pegged into the ground. I'm like, I'm done. And I actually went down and rented a snowboard. And that's what I did ever since. I uh and again people go for it if you can ski and I know it's some people's jam but I watch some of the wrecks and the angles that the knees are at and the directions that the skis are going and I would just much rather have both of my feet planted on a board yeah and I you know risk my god I scorpion so hard isn't that kill I mean even my hands were coming like and I like and I had speed caught my edge as I'm flying to the air I'm like don't put your hands out as they're coming out in front and then just board hits you in the back of your

head like who kicked me that's the thing is like how is that even physically possible that the board actually hits you in the back of the head yeah you know your body smash the back of my head with my board and then just laid there trying to determine whether or not my lumbar spine was still oriented properly slash not powdered right and my back hurt for like four months oh I bet I'm still recovering from that I feel better now but uh I had just started or it was maybe a couple months into jihitsu at the time and I'm being on the mat, I'm like, oh, this doesn't feel good at all. It was just. How long you've been doing jiu-jitsu now?

Almost one year, the 26th of June. One of the coaches took a picture of my first day in the first class, so that's the only reason. Would you say June 26? June 26, so this month, yeah. Yeah. It's been cool, man. How often do you train? As often as I possibly can.

So on days that I'm home, I'll hit at least a class a day. And the structure is really nice. They do. So I trained at the straight blast gym in Calispell or a whitefish. It's at this point, I think a global organization. They're all over the place. But they do, it schedules perfect for me. At noon there's a class.

And then right after that is an open mat. So you can try to apply the stuff in the class right at the open mat. And it's, so it gives me, you know, two hours a day of some good mental release, a good physical release. And I can just bounce back and forth. And if I'm home Monday through Friday, I'm there Monday through Friday. Yeah. Yeah. I started, I started jujitsu August of last year.

And people ask me how long I've been training. 10 months into it. Yeah, but not really. That's when I started and then I took a big long break and gap in there. Yeah, don't do that. No, I shouldn't have done that. Yeah. But I came back here in Maine, which is, I mean, it's nice being here because I can train

with these guys. Man, there's just something about it. You know, there's the physical release of it. There's the brotherhood and the camaraderie. There's the physicality of it that I think all men need. So, man, it feels good to be back training again. Yeah, I'm looking forward to after this. I'm sure we're both going to get utterly destroyed, which is just kind of what I

expect at all times. Yeah. Well, last week, I mean, Pete, you know, he's such a big guy anyways. Yeah. And he's, he's high level. Yeah. So he's a big guy and he's high level. It's my least favorite type of person. Dude, he just toys with you and I need small and very low level. Right. Yeah, you'll be great against me then. Yeah, we'll have fun, man. No, it'll be good. I'm looking forward to it. But yeah, I mean, to come back to what you were saying earlier about moving is, you know, my wife and I just, we wanted an adventure. We've got the opportunity to be able to do that. And I never want to look back and think, you know, man, remember that time we wanted to do that thing and we didn't do it for whatever. Like people say that, oh, that's, that's a, that's a gutsy move.

That's a ballsy move. That's risky. Not at all, man. Yeah, it's not. In the grander perspective of things you can get yourself involved in, it's, I'm trying to think how many houses. So I started my military career in San Diego. We moved to Virginia Beach. We bought our first house in Virginia Beach, moved back to San Diego, rented some houses along the way, bought some houses along the way to Montana. I mean, I guess I never really felt risk in any of those. It was just kind of the next chapter. I mean, you know, that's what I think. If you can commit yourself to, you're going to encounter problems and things will not be exactly what you think, but if you can commit yourself to navigating through that, I don't think it really matters where the geographical pin in the ground is.

I think that's exactly right. And I think there's too many people who believe that, you know, if there's a slightest little variance in their, in their schedule or their life, that it's going to completely derail whatever plans they have. And my thought is, man, you can adapt to that stuff. Like we're resilient creatures. You can adapt and grow to that stuff. And resiliency is interesting too. You know, the textbook definition largely being, you know, if you get bent out of a normal position, you can come back to your original position, which I think is incorrect. I think it should be you should attempt to come back to at least a percentage point stronger.

Otherwise you're just tread and water. And I get asked all the time. I do a good amount of public speaking. And sometimes they'll want me to talk on either mental toughness or resiliency, which I believe are tied. And one of the main questions is, you know, can it be taught or do you just have to be? have the potential that you have. And my answer at least is yes to both. You can't.

Sure. You, of course, as a human being, will have X amount of potential and whatever it might be. But I think you can build on that. And if you want to be a resilient person, truly, my best advice for people is look for ways to bend yourself instead of waiting for life to bend you. And you'll be much more prepared for it. Well, and I think you're exactly right. I think if you wait for it to happen, something catastrophic or maybe not catastrophic is

going to happen. It doesn't have to be if you're not used to encountering resilient or challenges. or working your way through it. It doesn't have to be catastrophic at all. Right. And it'll derail you. It'll just mess with you. I mean,

it's, you know, I've had things in my life come up, whether it's, you know, things in my relationship or with the business. I mean, there's a lot of times

where I struggled financially, I'm trying to get a business off the ground. Fortunately, you know, I played sports. I was in the military, not necessarily to the level you were, but, you know,

some of those things I was able to put myself in those situations. So when you do face difficult times, when we're all bound to, it's like, Okay, well, this isn't the end of the world. This sucks, no doubt. But it's not the end of the world.

I can get over this. I'll get through this. And to your point, you know, you come back stronger than you were before. That's the point of jiu-jitsu. That's the point of the adventure that we're on. I mean, that's the point of all of this stuff is to improve and get better. How are your kids doing to move? They're good.

You know, my oldest was a little freaked out. He's kind of a warrior anyways. Yeah. I have a kid that's like that. My middle son is. Your middle? He just absorbed. And first off, he probably right now is figuring out a formula to launch a rocket into geosynchronous orbit.

Is that right? Oh, he's... That's awesome. Insanely smart, which I had no idea where he came from. Definitely not for me. But he internalizes things, and then I have some of the deepest conversations with him. It's unbelievable. But yeah, he's my little worrier.

Yeah. Yeah, my oldest is really empathetic towards other people and even very highly tuned into animals, which is kind of an interesting thing to watch him interact with animals. But because he's so empathetic and he's so in tune with that sort of thing, he's always worried about, oh, how does that person feel or how does that person perceive me because that's how he sees the world? How old is he? He's 11.

Yeah. I had the capacity to probably eat Plato at 11. I was not thinking of those things at all. I mean, it's good. It's good. But like anything, the things that we, we're strong at can also be our greatest weaknesses too, right? So he allows a lot of these little outside factors and these variances to really mess with his head and then he starts to get inside

of his head. And I can see the wheels turning and like, dude, breathe, relax. Let's work through this and figure this out. So he's had a little bit of a challenge. He's excited for the adventure. All I had to do is show him what animals were out here. He's like, oh, okay, I'm good. There's moose out here. I'm good. We were worried about our kids on the move from San Diego to Montana as well. my son was in seventh grade when we made the decision to move and kind of one of a pin in the ground for me was I experienced going from a private school to a public school between eighth and ninth grade okay and being a teenage boy is not that being a teenage girl is an easier but for a young man at that age when you're just full of testosterone and you don't know anything but you think you know it's it's challenging enough as it is is what I'm trying to say to have no social network or circle in a new high school environment.

High school is tough enough as it is. So I didn't want my son to have that experience. So we'd made the decision that we needed to move in the summer of his seventh grade year so he could have eighth grade and then into high school. And then to high school. Because I was worried about the kids. But honestly, they're thriving. And I think the environment is four seasons, obviously, in Montana versus, I mean,

there's four seasons in San Diego as well, but it gets a little hotter and it rains a little bit more. It's drastically different than the four seasons of Montana. And they're, I think they're thriving. I mean, they're doing snowboarding with me, my dad. daughters riding horses and it's they're they're loving it yeah yeah I think I think that's right I think a lot of parents don't give their their kids as much credit I don't even know their kids are more resilient than I think a lot of times adults well yeah and what I think we do as adults is we project that stuff under our kids and and so we're like we're not willing you know I know parents for example

I've got parents in in our family who let their kids dictate everything they're doing schedules are all about the kids and how the kids are feeling is determines what they're going to be doing. And I think, you know, that's, that's ridiculous. I think you have to find a balance. Absolutely. And everything. It's, there's, I mean, you, Rogan talks about all the time. The prefrontal cortex of a human being is not formed into their mid-20s.

Maybe, you know, maybe don't let an 11-year-old govern everything that you want to do. Yeah. Because my 15 and a half-year-old schedule would be, we will open the day with Xbox. I'll take a break on my phone. Right. Then I'll eat something that has zero protein, zero fat, 100% sugar. Then I will recover on my Xbox. Which all sounds pretty good, you know, but it's not going to serve you.

Yeah. I might join him for a day and then they don't feel like I'm dying from that sugar intake. But there's a reason, I mean, I needed that discipline and guidance. I think everybody needs a little bit of that. You have to navigate them through that point. Yeah, yeah, you do. And that's part of the problem with society now is that we have placed our children. I believe placed our children on pedestals.

They don't belong, you know, and allowed them to make a lot of the decisions and dictate the course of schooling or how they feel or sports or whatever else. And then we spend an inordinate amount of time making sure their feelings are protected. Yeah, we don't keep score. Why? Because heaven forbid, somebody feel bad.

How do you think we arrived at this point? Well, we just live in an age of abundance. I mean, everything's so wonderful. Like, I mean... It is the safest time to be a human being and the history of human being. It's the world prosperous. wealthiest. I mean,

So how do people lose sight of that? Because that's one thing. It's interesting. I sit back and I see what you're doing with Order of Man. And I enjoy it when you post some of the comments that you get where people are just trying to needle and pick at you. I'm going to assume that you get a good amount of those things just because what you're saying and doing is counter to what of a lot of people or maybe are hearing or used to hearing or their own opinions. But I don't understand how people can lose sight of the fact that it is truly the safest time to be a human being ever.

the opportunities that are available are endless and boundless, especially in comparison to a vast majority of people who live on this planet. That's true, even in modern times. Yeah. You know, I think about sex trafficking. It's like, that is insane to me. That is still happening in 2019. That's crazy to me.

And slavery and some of these other things. I think the sex trafficking is actually on the incline. Yeah, I imagine that's the case. And that, but just think about that. Doesn't that sound ridiculous? That sounds asinine that that is actually happening. still to me. Or that it ever happened. Yeah. I mean, I guess to a degree that if there's a demand, somebody is always going to try to fill it. But yeah, the fact that it's still continuing on in this

day is it's a tough one to wrap my head around for sure. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I just think everything, you asked about how do you how do we lose sight of that? I think it comes down to everything is, is handed to us. I mean, anything from from the food that you want to climate control buildings to, hey, I need something. And I don't I, we were talking about this with. Pete he wanted a new bow so we drove what 30 40 minutes and it appears right there we've got it and the money you know you just you put it on this little piece of plastic there's no accountability with that by the ones and zeros just kind of vaporized through the ethernet and a number gets small on your account and bigger in somebody else's account right yeah yeah and then if you know if if

you overcharge and you get in too much trouble you just declare bankruptcy and wipe a lot of that stuff out and so there's no accountability there's no consequence and so when our children grow up And when we've spent so much time acquiring things and having what we want on demand, it's easy to not really have to consider the alternative, which is that you have to fight for survival or in your case and spending time in the military that somebody actually wants to kill you because they hate your guts. Like people don't think about that stuff because we're not exposed to it. Yeah, which is a good thing.

And perhaps maybe a bad thing given the changes the optic that you view the world from. Well, and I think that comes back to what you were saying earlier is voluntary hardship. It's good in that we're not having to face these kind of life and death struggles, but we should also be putting ourselves in those positions voluntarily inside controlled environments. Something as simple as going to the gym and putting 300 pounds on your back and trying to lift it up as a voluntary hardship scenario in a controlled environment. You're not going to hurt yourself within reason. I'd also, I actually would support a two-year mandatory service for men and women growing up. And I don't mean that in the military could be the Peace Corps, the Red Cross, whatever it is, but just something

outside of yourself, preferably outside of the state or city that you live in and even a bit better if it could be international. I think that would change a lot of the perspective for people. That's interesting. I thought about that. I know you say that. And I'm glad you said maybe outside of military service as well. Oh, definitely outside of that because the military is not for everybody, as you know. And do I want a fighting force that that's that's coerced into being there? It's like, I don't know how productive. But there's so many ways to serve. You know what I mean? using that term broadly, like I said, Peace Corps educational, go somewhere and be a farmer or something. It has to serve something other than you.

Yeah. I think that would change the way a lot of people think about what they have and the appreciation that they have for it. That's true. That is true. I think that level of responsibility is very, very powerful. We spend a lot of time shirking responsibility. You know, what can I get away with? What's the absolute most I can get?

Exerting the least amount of effort. Minimum effort. Right? When it should be the exact opposite, you know, yeah, you've got a, you've got to quote unquote get yours, but I kind of look at getting yours as a result of giving. You know, it's the law of the harvest. You can only harvest what you sow, you know? Yeah, that's true. So the more, the more responsibility you can take on, the more meaning that you have in your life, the more you're giving back, the more you're serving in a meaningful way. I mean, that stuff has a tendency of returning back

to you. It will. It has to. It's a principle. Yeah, I can get a more with that. What's new in the Order of Man world? Oh man, a lot of the same. I mean, the podcast is going really well. That's killing it. Events have been huge. One thing we started doing, let's see, about four months ago is we brought a new event up.

It's called Legacy, and it's for fathers and their sons. Because I recognize there's a huge neat. I mean, look, we've got to focus on helping men get right, for sure. But we've also got to turn around and turn to our sons. We're growing up in a fatherless generation. You know, more kids are being born out of wedlock. We see divorce. Dad's not around.

The family court system is stacked against men. And so a lot of these guys who are in divorce situations aren't able to see their kids. A court system is keeping back from their kids. And so... Oh, you mean the default is just basically it falls back to the mother. Yeah, I mean, I think about my own childhood. My dad was out of the picture by the time I was three. Now, in my situation, it made sense.

My mom had full custody of us. And, you know, we saw our dad. in the summers and things like that during school breaks, but there's too many situations where the default is go to mom, whether that's good for the kid or not. Yeah. It's not even a consideration a lot of these times. And so dads are literally, quite literally being kept from their children. And I realize there's situations where, yeah, that probably should be the case.

Yeah, situationally dependent for sure. But there's also situations where children, sons and daughters, need dad around. Well, I think it's a balancing aspect from just a basic perspective. I mean, there's a difference between, in my opinion, at least a mother and a father from obviously the biological perspective, but also oftentimes a parenting perspective or a personality perspective. And I think the balance of both is extremely healthy. I think you have to have that to be real-rounded. Totally. I mean, I'll give you an example.

My kids were wrestling around the other night and my second son started crying and my wife ran over there and started to hug him. I'm like, hold up. Like, you don't even know what's going on right now. It's just her mother instinct kicking in. And that's right. And it's not wrong. It's not wrong. But he also needs the balance like, hey, man, stop crying. Like, you're not injured, obviously.

So stop crying. Let me know what happened and let's get this thing figured out. And I'm not wrong either. Yeah. It's the, like you said, it's the balance of. Between the two. When my kids get hurt, I usually just like one or like, you know, it started, I think, when my kids are learning how to ride a bike.

and guess what? You're not awesome at it when you first start. And you'll fall over and you get pinned by the bike. Yep. Dad, come help me. And I would go right up next to him and I would just talk to him. I'm like, listen, I'm going to show you how to get out from underneath your bike. I'm not going to do it for you. Right.

And I'm talking through it. I'm like, take a breath. You're going to be okay. I know it's scary, but, you know, lift this up and slide yourself out. Versus always running and doing it for them. Yep. And if they were really hurt, I would absolutely run a dude for them, scoop them up, get them to the hospital, whatever they need.

But I think it's important to allow them to figure out and to navigate and to understand that they're capable of getting themselves out of really, you know, difficult and dangerous situations. I have conversations with all of my kids. You know, it's take a deep breath, think about what's happening before you make a rash decision. Think yourself through what's going on. And a lot of the times they completely ignore that. But my narrative and mantra is going to be the same through the course of their life. And so hopefully they'll adapt it. I'm sure I did exactly the same thing.

but I mean it's important for sure but it's yeah I mean the balance between the mom and dad I think is huge it is and unfortunately I think a lot of society isn't getting the masculine yeah it's an interesting term I see you again watching the order of man stuff the term masculinity shows up of course most people not most people that's a terrible term or a terrible thing to say a lot of people will say you know they'll associate toxic with the masculinity without any definition right I oftentimes find when people are defining toxic masculinity has nothing to do with what I would define masculinity as. Right. And I would agree the things that they're saying are not, they are not healthy, but it's an interesting time, I guess. Well, and part of the reason this is actually magnified is because

on social media, you can't, you can't talk about the, well, you can. It's just more difficult to talk about or bring up the nuances. I don't think people have the bandwidth or desire to dig into the nuance on social media. Well, I think there's just a lot of lazy people out there. For sure. right who's like well here's what he said and i'm not going to think about any context or or use any level of discernment to try to figure out in what manner he meant this i'm just going to take it at face value and take it so literally and then jump to some conclusion and then be upset about it and i was talking with somebody about this earlier we have even we were talking about it we have nothing to worry about really and so we as human beings i think strive for or crave challenge adversity and because

we have no adversity, we make dumb shit up to worry about it. When you create adversity of something that may not necessarily be an adverse situation. Right. Right. That's so true, man. It is. It's crazy. You were saying before, you know, trying to get men right, what do you think the biggest challenges? Or when you say we need to get men right, what do you see going wrong with men from your perspective? Well, I think, I think first and foremost, you know, to come back to this idea of toxic masculinity. And I know that's defined in a lot of different ways. That's why I don't like to use the term because it can mean so many different things. Yeah, it's a lot of variables. Yeah. But I think first and foremost,

our boys are being taught that that they're wrong or they're bad or the characteristics they're exhibiting are somehow inherently toxic or negative. You know, the American Psychological Association did a study that said that the traits and virtue, not even virtues, the traits and characteristics that we as men inherently possess and display, such as dominance, aggression, competitiveness, stoicism, et cetera, et cetera, are inherently disruptive or toxic to... At any level or just in general? In general, that's the terms they used.

They didn't make the distinction between, okay, when can aggression, can, let me, I'll say it this way, can aggression be taken to the extreme? Yeah. So can water consumption, though? Right, exactly. I mean... But when you say that aggression in it itself, or stoicism or competitiveness in it of itself by its nature is somehow disruptive, yeah, I would have to disagree with that for

sure. I think anything can be, just about anything can be used at a healthy level, but you can take some what would seem to be completely innocuous food, go to the extreme and you can eat yourself to death. Or you can starve yourself to death. You can find a happy medium. Aggressiveness, I mean, even for my old job, you can take it entirely too far and you can not have enough of it and you're not going to be able to survive in that community. You have to find the balance in between. Of course, it can be taken too far and certainly it could become toxic to use that, you know, the soup de jour term of the day, but you have to have it. Right.

Right. The capacity for it, at least. But needs to be kept in check. Well, and I think having these types of discussions are important because when you say what are men, what's going wrong, I think that's part of what's going wrong is that we aren't, I don't want to say aloud. That's a weird way to say it. We aren't encouraged to express that masculinity.

Do you think it's at a truly deep level or do you think that those kind of comments mostly live in the social media world. And I ask that because, like, say you watch Fox News or CNN, you'll think constantly that the world is falling apart. Yeah. And you go have a conversation with somebody who's perhaps your neighbor who doesn't watch Fox News and CNN and they have, everything's fine. And it could be somebody who is at complete odds with you in the way you believe.

Maybe they don't believe religiously what you believe. Maybe they're homosexual and you're straight. Maybe they're a liberal and you're a conservative. And yet you have this neighbor who you completely get along with. Yeah. But you're, you know, you're supposed to hate that individual. Well, and if you listened to or followed what you saw and heard, it would be an issue. And I just feel, I'm curious as to, you know, the 24-hour news cycle being what it is.

They need to have something to report at all times. I don't live in that world at all. But I have just found such a disconnect between the way they portray the world and the way most people actually see the world. And I think social media where a lot of this stuff lives, you know, the toxic masculine, like, I've never had that conversation with my neighbor. Right. You know, it never comes up. and they have a daughter and a son. And the people in my neighborhood,

the kids act like kids, and we're not out in the streets screaming at each other about toxic masculinity. But then on the internet, it's World War III and it's trench warfare. I think a lot of the problem is, you know,

exacerbated by those who would prey upon our outrage, right? It's like if we can get these people riled up, we can sell more, we can advertise more, or we can get more of their time, attention, energy, things like that.

I do think there's an underlying, I hesitate to use the word, attack, but certainly dismissal of masculinity. I think the masculine figure, leader of a home or a community is being undermined. I definitely think the family is being undermined at every turn. Is it some master plan? I don't know. But I do know that individuals who are not independent thinkers, if they're not led by a good and capable father and mother in the home, if they're not learning these things, they're more easily manipulated and controlled by the powers that would be. So whether that's the school system or the government or potentially even the military,

you and I both have military experience, you know, the whole goal is to get people to tow the line, to do what they're told when they're told to do it. And how do you, how do you do that? Well, you strip away any sort of outsider conflicting authority figure, which could be the patriarch, right, the father of the home, the leader in the community and undermine the family and men in general. I think one of the things I'm most grateful to my parents for is just really calibrating for me, my moral compass. You know, they gave me the, uh, certainly enough rope to hang myself. And I did on many occasions. Of course. And, uh, but they were also there at the same time. But they really helped me figure out who I was. So then it's a lot harder to pull the wool

over your eyes when you already have a better understanding. You're less apt to seek that guidance from social media, which I'm so thankful that I didn't have to live in the social media world when I'm my kids. When you were a kid. Yeah. First off, I can only imagine the things I would have said that would have been recorded for all of history. Yes. Had I had the ability to just type out my random 15-year-old.

When you were 18-year-old. Thoughts. Oh, my. There would have been some ones that are up on the wall for eternity, and I would look at them every day. I'm like, oh, and I struggle with that with my kids. Like this is instant access and the ability to say what they want and not really do what they want, but just it's, I keep telling them, like, if you type this in and hit send or you send a picture, right, or all this stuff these kids are doing, it lasts forever. Ever. And it's a concept that I didn't have to deal with.

And even with the moral compass that my parents gave me, I think I would have struggled with just the ease of access to being able to do that. It's really, really tough. Because I'm trying, again, trying to get my kids a moral compass, but we have had internally in our house some issues with things that were typed. And did you actually mean that? No. But it doesn't matter because screenshot circulation. They've ended up at school, I've been to the school, having a conversation with the vice principal.

And it's interesting because they realize that those kids are basically just communicating their thoughts and they may not need it. And this new medium exists, but they still have to address it. Right. Even with all the things that have happened in the world and are specifically in the United States. It's, I mean, come on, it's hard enough that it is to be a teenage boy. We don't need to add all this other stuff. I know, man. It's gnarly.

It's crazy. I just had a conversation with my son about this is to go back to your moral compass is, you know, he's at the point where he's probably going to be exposed to drugs or alcohol, potentially pornography, some of these things that, you know, ideally I wouldn't want it to be exposed to. Two of my three kids have been across that hurdle. The kids, their age, their cohort is, you know, not everybody gets a moral compass at home. Right. Some people seek it and their compass gets calibrated in the wrong direction. And they're in the same school when kids are in the same social circles with the same internet connection. Yeah.

And then if they don't have the moral compass, it's very easy. I mean, it's easy anyways when you're a young boy and you're trying to fit in and you're trying to find your place. You're trying to be cool and hang out. I mean, we do that as adults, right, let alone as 15-year-old kids. Yeah. It's not like it ends. We just have more gray hairs. That's right.

Right. Yeah. So, you know, it's easy if you're in the moment, right? And somebody offered, like I was telling my son, I said, it's easy. If you're in the moment and you've got, you know, five, six, seven of your buddies around and they're all drinking alcohol, it's going to be easy for you to want to do that. You've got to decide now what it is you're going to do, what you stand for, what you don't, and how you're going to get yourself out of that situation. That's that moral compass. You've got to make decisions before they happen.

so you're less likely to make the wrong decision when emotions and peer pressure and all these other things come at you. Yeah, I mean, we just couch that in the terms of contingency planning. The best way to make a decision in a crisis is to have already worked your way through it before it becomes a crisis.

Yeah. It's tough, though. I mean, I remember those social circles where all your friends are, have a beer, have a beer, and just like, ha, ha, ha. And you know it's wrong, and yet you do it anyways. Yeah, you do. And we're having some issues

with my oldest son, kind of just along with this exposure. And I'm currently, I struggle, I struggle because I'm trying to find the balance of, I know that he's going to get exposed to these things in his life at some point. And I know when I was initially exposed to them, and it's right around the same time period that he's at right now. So it's a natural portion of life and the balance between having him feel empowered and enabled to make decisions and then also being a parent that is there to shepherd him along the path and keep him on the path.

I mean, you know as well as I do. I'm still looking for the book that has the instruction manual on how to be the perfect parent. It doesn't exist. It's not out there. I'm making it up as I go. And some of this stuff scares the crap out of me and others. I'm like, okay, you know, I think I understand how to do this. And it's a challenging phase right now for me and my kids, for sure.

There hasn't been many things in my life that have kept me up at night. You know, occasionally, like very, very acute things that I might be dealing with, you know, like, I don't have any money in the bank account. And I can make this bill, right? And so we figured it. out and then it's no longer an issue, but perpetually, the things that keep me up are at night are thinking about, you know, my kids and how they're going to grow up. And, you know, to your point, I don't want to shelter them to the point where that creates long-term problems. That's a short-term solution for the parent, I think. Yeah, for sure. But it's a long-term problem

for the life of the child. To me, it's a little bit like that, that preacher's daughter situation where, you know, you're so rigid and so disciplined and shelter them so much, they go out and they just go, insane when they're out from underneath your wing. They're dancing in a barn when not supposed to. Exactly. Flash dance. Yeah. The wrong kind of.

Dirty dancing. No, that's not dirty dancing. It was Kevin Bacon. Yeah. He was in a tractor war with somebody. It went into the river. What's the show? I cannot believe I'm referencing this, but I watched it.

They actually, they actually film part of it in Northern Utah. Don't come out with that. That's right. That's what it is. Yep. I apologize for that reference. We'll cut that out if we need to. No, we're leaving that way.

Yeah. Yeah, so those are the things that keep me up at night. Same here. I mean, I've been hurt plenty of times in my life, and I don't really worry about physical injury for me, but the thought, physical injury or the struggling for my kids, it's, yeah, it's a tough one to shut down. It is tough, but it needs to happen.

They have to be challenged with it. That doesn't mean it sits any better in my stomach as an apparent. But it, but that actually makes it harder because you're supposed to let them struggle and you're supposed to let them feel the full weight of the decisions they make. Yeah. And yet you know how painful that is,

so you don't want them to experience it, and yet it's probably the best thing for them. Well, my concern is that I want to make sure that the decisions that I'm allowing them to have that full weight and burden of or appropriate for the age and capacity that they're at. Sure. You know, it's, there's, as my children get older,

the problems, I suppose, could be best described as more complex because they're doing more complex things. And they're certainly, you know, I don't want to have to have my 15-a-half-year-old to make a decision about being exposed to cocaine. Right. You know, let's save that for when you're a little bit later. Right. So I just want to, I'm trying to make sure, you know, I want him to have friends, but I want him to have the right friends because I don't want him forced into those situations before he is ready.

Even though I know he's going to have to make them in his life, but I want to prepare him for those decisions before he gets shotgun by him. So what are some of the things that you feel like you do that, that, that, that, you know, that, gives your children the tools or at least the mindset to some degree to be able to resist some of these temptations like how are you heading that off ahead of time i mean educating and talking openly and honestly about the the impact that it can have on your life for me is one of them uh and just having very frank conversations you know like i know that there are people at his school that are smoking weed and they're drinking uh can people function in life and do those things yeah it's possible, but not at the age of 15 and half.

You know what I mean? And talking about the impact it can have on their life going forward, um, talking about how it might seem appealing at the time and it might seem actually like an escape. You know, you're having a hard day and it might seem like an escape, but it's not actually an escape because it's not solving any of the problems. Right. And so for me, the biggest thing is just trying to educate them and have open and honest conversations about the potential negative impact of it. And then, you know, trying to teach them about choices and letting them make a bunch of choices in their life and have to suffer the consequences from it. I'm usually, I'm trying to be there with them, but not tell them how to do things.

If they have something that needs to get done, I'm there to help them. And again, this isn't necessarily tie into the temptation thing, but just more kind of working through their own decision-making process and seeing the consequences of a bad decision versus the rewards of a good decision. Yeah. You know, what I think doesn't work with my kids or wouldn't work with them is just saying, you know, these are evil. Don't ever, you know what I mean?

because it almost instills this sense of wonderment or awe in it a little bit. And I don't know the right path. I mean, what do you do? I mean, I'm curious to hear what you do as well. Very much the same. In fact,

I was having a conversation the other day with somebody about kids and firearms. And they were asking me if I keep my kids from firearms. I'm like, no, why? It's actually the opposite for me. I tried to expose them to it as much as possible. That's exactly right.

And my rule was, if you ever have a question about a gun, you ever want to touch a gun, you come get me and we're going to walk through it. Every time my kids touch a gun, we walk through it. I'm like, how do you treat a gun? Like, treat it like it's loaded.

Do you ever pointed in anybody? No. Do you ever point it to anything? No. Do you ever put your finger on the trigger? No. What do you do if you find a gun and you're out with your friends? You need to leave it and you go get an adult.

We walk our way through it and then I talk them through again how to hold it. And we just, and now they see a gun and they're like, okay. Yeah. There's no. There's no curiosity about it. It's not a mythical device that they're only hearing about on the news. They understand how it works because they've been exposed to it. Yeah.

I agree. I agree. One of the things that we have agreed, my wife and I have agreed on is that we try very hard not to make our children feel stupid about things. And the reason that's important to me, and I'll use girls for example, is I don't want to

tease my boys about girls. Oh, like, who's your girlfriend? You know, I don't want to do that stuff. I don't want to do that because when that situation comes, I want them to be comfortable to come to me and talk about it in a serious way. I don't tease them about not knowing something

like, oh, you're an idiot. Like, you should know that because I want them to be able to come to me and ask questions about, hey, dad, I don't know about this one particular thing. Can you show me? Can you teach me? Yeah. That, to me, has worked pretty well, I think, I guess, I hope. But I think there's a lot of people who just like tease and make people feel stupid.

And then it's like, then they encourage them to come to them to talk about this stuff. Like, why would they come talk to you? Well, what they'll probably do if you feel uncomfortable. I mean, because we've all had friends like that in our life where he doesn't want to ask the question because you're going to, the response. Right. You're going to bust your balls. They're going to bust your balls.

So what you do is you seek another source of information, which might be in your social circle, which might be that kid that doesn't have the compass. Right. So the answer to the question you get might be diametrically opposed to what I would give. But if my response is that default level and is pushing the person away, it doesn't matter how much information I have if I can't pass it on to somebody else. That's exactly right. Or, you know, they may go to another source of knowledge or they may not do it at all

and do something reckless. Yeah. make their own decision, okay, well, I'm not going to ask. So I'll just go do this. And then they make a decision that potentially impacts the rest of their life. Yeah. And that's my concern with the 15-and-a-half-year-old. How do I give you the ability to make decisions, but also make sure you don't end up in jail?

That is the mental juggling that I'm doing right now. Yeah, because if you come home and you're drunk, okay, let's say you've got a 15, 16, 17-year-old kid comes home and he's drunk. Okay, well, I mean, obviously that's not ideal, but hopefully he sees there's some negative consequence of that. Well, then you add what scares me is you add to that, okay, maybe he got his driver's license at 16. Maybe he, you know, then like, okay, we're driving around a 2,000 pound vehicle that could take the life. You could kill somebody. Yes. Those are the things that weigh on me because I think, because, and I tell my son this, I'm like, listen, I have a few more laps around the sun than you do.

It doesn't mean that I'm a smarter person than you. It doesn't mean that I'm a better person than you. But I know so many people that that has happened to that that keeps me up at night. And he probably doesn't know anybody that that has happened to. So the weight of that decision or those actions weighs on me more than it does on him. So I'm trying to find these ways to ensure that that doesn't happen. Yeah.

Yeah, because coming home loaded and you're hung over the next day, oh, guess what? Time to work out. That's right. We're going to punish you a little bit. You're going to do it to yourself and it's going to suck. Right. And you understand the negative impact.

And that's not going to impact the rest of your life. Correct. But killing somebody because you're driving around drunk. Yeah. At the age of 16 or 17, that you have just taken an off ramp onto, where your life could have gone and now who knows where you're going to end up. That's exactly right.

And that keeps me up at night. That's a scary thing. Yeah. Yeah. Do you, uh, what type of activities? I mean, are you pretty involved with your kids? Like, do you guys, you talk about snow activities? Are you hunting with them too?

I haven't hunted with them. Oh, actually, I take the back. I took them down to Sonora, Mexico. They each were able to kill a coo steer with their rifle. So as much as possible, they need to go through the Hunter's Ed program in Montana. The type of hunting that I do, mostly be in bow hunting. I don't know if they would enjoy the complexity and devil difficult of that yet.

Yeah. Are you mostly spot and stock type stuff? You're not sitting in a blind or a tree stand. I will occasionally sit in a blind. I have sat in a tree stand one time. I really enjoy the Western style of hunting spot and stock. Yeah. Getting out there and it's, I mean, elk is by far my favorite animal to hunt for.

And I guess you could hunt that in a tree stand. I don't know enough about it. But the hunting that I have done is you're covering, you know, 10, 12, 15 miles a day. Right. Which is not going to be optimal for having a 13 and a 15-year-old. roll on your hip. Now having said that, I want to do some rifle hunting with them this year just so they can, you know, I can get them all this stuff that they need. The odds of success are going to be greater and the physical demand is going to be lower for them to get that success. I think creating

those wins early and often is really important. Maybe don't go elk hunting with your kid in the back country, bow. With a bow. I mean, you might be successful, but you also might ruin your child. Yeah, I'm never doing that again. I took my, my oldest son, again, he's 11, uh, hunting. the end of last year. It was a pig hunt in Texas, but we were in a blind over a feeder. And he was using crossbow. Yeah.

And you're going to have multiple opportunities. You're going to be successful. I've taken my oldest son. He went blind hunting once, was very successful. My middle son has been once now. Riley's been twice. So I'll definitely build on that.

Yeah, because I want them to share in those experiences. And then, you know, obviously I don't coach their teams. I travel too much to be able to commit to coaching any of my son's teams. It's just the nature of my job. Do you have three, three boys? Two boys and a little girl. Two boys and girl. Okay. 15, 13 and she just turned 11 last week. All right. Yeah. And, uh, but I go to, you know, I'm physically present at as many of the events as I can be involved in and anything that they want to do. You know, I try to be as actively involved in their lives as possible. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's important. I mean, you're, I've told people before is like,

you, you, you, you want your voice to be the loudest and most relevant voice. Yeah. That way when they're face with something, they're thinking, even if they're not consciously thinking it that your voice is what's going through their mind. Well, if you think about it from, you know, next year I'll have a freshman in high school and a sophomore in high school. My impact on them is decreasing every single day. And it's so minimal. Well, I look, they're around. They're just around more people now than they are me. Right. And because they go to school at eight, come back at, you know, three o'clock, somewhere

between three to four o'clock, they're going to go to bed five to six hours after that. There's no way physically that unless I'm waking them up at two in the morning to say, hey, Let's hang out for four hours. And they're just going to roll over in bed and ignore me. They're now spending more time with other people, with more influence from other people, specifically their social networks than they are with me. Right. Yeah, it's kind of, it's exciting to see them branch out like that, but at the same time,

you know, it is. And it's sad, too, you know, like, I love my kids. I love having around. I love mine sometimes. Yeah, let's be honest here. Not always. Children are created and designed to sharpen their teeth on your bones. That's right.

It is unbelievable. It's for them and it's also for you. Yes. It's the most painful slash rewarding experience humanly possible. That's right. Have fun people. Have a lot of kids. It's just, it's, you know, when I think about, my son, you know, the 11 year old I keep

talking about here is, is, you know, in seven years, he's gone, man. Yeah. Like he's gone. I'm three years from that. That's crazy. That's kind of like it's exciting for them. Not exciting for me, exciting for them. But then at the same time, like, man, that's my little buddy.

You know, I remember the day he came home from the hospital. hospital. Yeah. He was born premature. He was born four weeks early and we fortunately he didn't have to go to the NICU, but we brought him home and we had to have him in this. You can only describe it as like a briefcase tanning bed that he had to be in all the time. It had those lights, those cars and lights or whatever, because he had jaundice. Yeah, yeah. Hadn't fully developed. But what is it vitamin D or E or whatever they're deficient in? Yeah. So these lights help with that. Yep. So he was in there all the time and my wife and I at night, we would we would take turns. So I would do a two-hour stint with him out in the living room and try to sleep, but you have these

blinding lights and then I'd trade and she'd come out and we'd do that. You know, to think about from that time to not that, and not too long of a distance here, you know, him, him leaving the nest and being gone. It's kind of a, kind of a weird thing. I have those same thoughts. I mean, I was the first person to hold all three of our kids and my son was born and I gave him his first bath with a sponge under the lights, you know, and like being able to, like, you know, his foot was like one third of the digit of my pinky. Yeah. How tiny.

And now he's like, Dad, I want to learn to drive a car. I'm like, what? What is happening right now? You can't. You're only six. Yeah, exactly. I'm almost 16.

Like, no, you're eight. There's no way. There's no way. Yeah. And he'll always be, and I've had these conversations with my dad. You know, I have a bunch of pictures. I've always been a snuggle bug for lack of a better term.

I'm with my mom and dad. And there's a bunch of pictures of me just crawling around in their arms and stuff. And my dad is, he's like, you're always going to be that boy. me. Yeah, for sure. My kids will be the same way, too, regardless of the path that they take. It's always going to be those moments where, you know, those things that I think back on. Yeah. It's tough to imagine them in a few years. I just hope what I want to be is the, is relevant in their life that they want to maintain contact with me as opposed to me just reaching out and, you know, never getting anything back. Right. Which is, and I'm sure I'll lose them

a little bit along the way and navigate, but I just want to make sure they always know that they can come back. Yeah. It's tough. It's not easy. It is. What's your thoughts on? on because you don't I mean as far as you being on social media you're not as as active necessarily as like I am I put a lot of stuff out there but what is your thoughts about your family on social media I wonder if you have any like security questions is you know being a former seal and things like that I don't have any concern about my old job and the things that I used to do I mean because I'll get asked that I mean there's some guys who take it much much farther and they

wouldn't be like the gray man but the reality is everything that I did there's no way you could associate it directly to me. So there's no dude in a village somewhere overseas thinking I need to go get any stumps. There's no bounty on your head or whatever. No, I mean, well, I mean, I guess there could be because they would target service members or just Americans in general. But first they'd have to have access to actually do something about that. And the reality is, as I spent almost two decades of my life immersing myself in violence. And if that person wants to come and try to find me in the country, in the town and the house that I live in, fucking bring it.

and we're going to see how that works itself out. But I do, I'm very, for many years, I didn't post anything about my family on social media and only very rarely will I post anything about my kids. And it's more just I want them to have their privacy. Right. You know, my son has an Instagram account and he'll occasionally post stuff.

But for me, it's just, I started social media as a contractual obligation when I was getting into the skydiving and base jumping world. And I just kind of have always kept, it to that. It's a little bit more of a professional than a personal tool, I guess. I mean, I have no problems posting about family or my kid and stuff. I just posted

a picture of my daughter's birthday. I know I was roaring around and canoe. But I don't post about them extremely often just because I just want them to have their space. Yeah, I get that. You talk about this contractual obligation that your sponsors wanted you to promote. Social media, is that what it is? Yeah, I mean, right?

And in the endorsement world, you know, one of the first questions you're going to get asked is what's your social impact. You know, what's your impressions and all of this stuff? And the first sponsors that I got five, six years ago, again, social media is what it is. They want you to have a voice with which you can talk about your involvement with their brand. Of course. And so there you go. They're going to pay for that. I mean, that's what they're paying for. Correct. And then so you need to have a presence on those platforms. So that was specifically what it was for me. I had no social media at all when I was in the military. So it was kind of a learn as I go. And I just, I kind of adopted that philosophy that

It was more business-based than personal base. Quite frankly, I don't find myself to be that, I'm kind of boring as a person to do the same things. So, yeah, I post stuff that I think is interesting. I don't really look at myself as a brand at all. I just post stuff that I think is interesting. Right. And I know a lot of people treat it much more so like a business,

but that's just, I don't know. That's just the way that I kind of look at it. And my family, I want to, you know, I have super proud of them, but again, I want them to have their privacy. and is what it is. Yeah, I mean, I sometimes feel like, like I've created this environment where I'm a slave to it a little bit, you know, because it is more like a business model, right?

Yeah. Which is great. And again, totally fine. A lot of people, yeah, it's a tool that you're using as part of your business model. And because of that, you have to treat it like the tool that it is. But sometimes I don't want to post about what I'm doing. I just want to do it and be very present in the moment. Yeah.

And it's weird. You know, I don't feel like I have to, but I do enjoy social media also. I enjoy putting it out there. I enjoy being able to connect. Yeah, just being able to connect. You know, we talk about, a lot of people talk about from a negative context, how disconnected we are via social media. And I think to myself, you know, yeah, maybe, but I can't tell.

I mean, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Nope. Right. And the guys that come to our events, they wouldn't come to the events. And they ask me about my family and they ask about the things that we're doing. Like, they're deeply connected and interested in what we're doing. And all of that happened via social media. It's very powerful.

Yeah. It's, again, can you take it too far? Oh my God, you can take it too far. Easily. And you can over communicate and you can care far too much about what other people say. And then you could have no social media at all

and you would have a little bit of disconnection from like you're saying, you and I wouldn't have met the events and the things that you're doing. Nobody would hear about that if they chose not to be on social media. But you've got to find that balance. The extremes, I think,

and just about anything or where danger comes from. I don't worry about people who are moderate. Right. I really, I don't care what you believe. I truly don't care what people believe as long as it doesn't start impacting my life and moderates never seem to impact my life with their beliefs or their

actions because they're just doing them. They live their life. Yeah. The extremists who are like, you need to believe this and do that. I'm just like, ha, ha, I got to go. Relaxed. Yeah, I'm not even going to talk with you. I got to go. But again, to come back to social media is a lot of these people are, we're not rewarded via social media, which is a lot of, unfortunately, the only reward system some people have, but they're not rewarded for being moderate. They're rewarded for being extreme. Yeah, because the moderates on social media, just you're gray. Right. It's like, I don't care about that guy. Oh, he has a family. He has a decent job. He makes, you know, 100,000 a year. He's got two and a half kids in the white pick offense. So it's an interesting,

yeah, it's an interesting point because the reward system on that is skewed. And, and the reward system doesn't discriminate between what is relevant or accurate and what isn't. So it can be some complete bullshit as long as it's, as long as it's polarizing, then it'll be rewarded. Yeah. Which is crazy. Which, and you know, I have seen bleed over between the social media world and the physical world.

And I think that's where the danger comes from. These people want to be extreme in the social media world. And so therefore their behavior in the real world changes. I love, I love internet comments. Because I know that these people would never speak like that in person. So I use the elevator test. If you were in an elevator and the door is closed and you had to turn and you and I were this far apart, would I say in the comment that I'm about to

to make on your page, would I say it to your face? For the vast majority of people, the answer is absolutely not. So maybe use that as your litmus test as to whether or not you should type it in. Yeah. But again, that's not going to get the likes, man. I like it when people get uppity on some of this stuff because I'll just be like, I just go, I refuse to engage in a negative manner. And I just will kind of just go back to him and explain a little bit of how I think.

Or just you're, you're so right. You're so smart. Thank you for educating you. Because it drives them bananas. It gets under their skin, man. It's hard, though. It's hard not to, some of these people, man. They're professionals that like they know exactly what to say and I even caught myself like I'm not going to respond to that and then they say something else. I'm like

It's on. I got to respond to you don't have to. No, you don't. That's the thing. It's a conscious decision. And you don't know the person don't allow somebody you don't know to have an impact on your feelings, which I fail at all the time for people listening or watching. I'm not saying I'm perfect, but it's probably one of the healthiest things that you can do is manage the amount of people that actually have an influence on what you think about and how you feel. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it would be nice to be nice to. to go back to, and we can't go back so you have to manage it yourself, a time where, you know, you worried about your family, the people in your house, you worried about your neighbors on either side of you and you're worried about your coworkers. Yeah, we're past that point for sure. Yeah. The horse is not going back in the stable on that one. But again, I think if you're a moderate in your use of social media, you're moderate in

your use of what, you know, the information sources, you're intelligent and you try to find a balance between left and right or whatever, however you would describe it, I think you're going to be okay. Yeah. Again, I think that, I mean, I don't think the answer, I don't like, you're to use that term to answer is moderation. But for myself, on almost every issue, I find myself landing in the middle. I'm unwilling to engage in arguments with people because it gets nowhere. I'm not interested in arguing. I'm interested in making a difference. It's just got to be balanced.

That's actually one of the things that I appreciate about you and I have since I've known you over the past couple of years is you've said some things that have surprised me in a way that, you know, it didn't fit the mold necessarily. And to me, I looked at that and respected it because I see that you're thinking about it, not just behaving the way that you're supposed to or saying the talking points that you're supposed to. I actually think that's a big problem with even in politics when you talk about like the two-party system. It's like I can't think anything else because I lean more conservative, for example. So I have to be conservative across the aisle. It's like, what if I don't believe in all of that stuff? Which I think most of them don't anyway. I think they're

actually being untrue to themselves. I'm sure there are people who are just on every issue hardline right or left. But again, I've had neighbors that are on the last. I've had neighbors that are on the left and the right and time and time again we agree on more things than we disagree on that's right but the you know the elected representative is like no this is the hard line and it just i wonder whether or not at night they're sitting there like i don't actually really believe this as deeply as i'm saying do you think that or do you think they've just started to believe into their own bullshit enough that they've started to just i guess act and believe in this delusional manner i think politicians are crazy so i have no idea what they're actually doing yeah i can't think of a job i would want less i can't imagine some of this stuff

Like I see you guys My thought three years ago is Like you couldn't be a decent human being And a politician And if anybody wanted to get into politics It was it was some For the wrong reasons That's right

But I see it now and I see And I don't know like I see Dan Krenshaw for example I don't know if you know Dan or not I just did a podcast with him He's awesome Oh that's right you did I was his proctor and his buds class That's right

I did listen to that podcast Yeah And he's great He's one of the few people that I think breaks that mold. And that's what's interesting. I see him. I don't know him.

But I see him and I think, you know what? I feel like this is a good human being. Yeah. And then I think to myself, so why the hell is he getting into politics? Like, does he believe that he can really make a difference? I believe that's probably why he has. That's what I would say as well. Which I don't think is normal.

I mean, not, I'm not saying for him. I'm saying it's not common. Correct. Yeah. I would say it's, I mean, there's a lot of things that are atypical about him, but I think he's in it for the right reasons. I think he's trying to make a difference. and I'll be interested to see how a system that often, from my perspective,

and I'll be the first person to tell you that I have not a great depth of understanding of politics, it doesn't seem like it's set up for those particular types of individuals to thrive. It seems like the status quo. Yeah, I think the status quo is often more important than actual change in that environment. But he's, I mean, he's trying to make a difference. He's awesome. You think he'll run for president? I, hmm.

I mean, broad answer, yes. Yeah. And I think he will, if he can maintain who he is, will continue to rise in the ranks of the Republican Party. What do you mean by maintain who he is? Or what would be the threat? Being forced to accept a party line, you know. And I don't think he's that type of person, though.

I think he's going to tell you what he thinks. I think he's going to do what he thinks is right. He's going to be able to articulate and defend his positions and his actions. But again, I don't, I mean, if you really want me to not trust you, you can go be a politician. Yeah. Because it's just there's so much money involved. The special interest involved is undeniable.

The influence that they have is undeniable. And again, I'll be the first person to tell you I don't follow it incredibly closely because I just get frustrated and upset when I do. So I know he's operating an environment where there is a lot of that going on. And, you know, if you put your feet in a bucket of water for too long, they're going to get pruny at some point. Yeah. That's a good way to look at it.

That's true. Yeah, I could see him making a presidential run and being actually very, very successful. And 48, it would be like 48 years from now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure, when he has more of a foothold and people. More experience in just that arena. Well, you talk about experience. I mean, just the level of, well, just what they need to know to be able to talk with even each other.

You know, it's like, I don't want to learn that game. I'm not interested in learning. And it's a game. I mean, it is a game and I don't want to learn that game. I agree. What's the balance, though, between being aware? Like, we have to be aware, right? We ought to be aware, especially the things that are happening in our country

and then just completely burying our heads in the sand. Well, I think if you bury your heads in the sand, it gives people the opportunity to maneuver when you're not watching. And they know when, you know, I think a lot of, I don't think it's accidental that there is so much overload on certain topics because I think it provides people space to maneuver on other topics that people aren't paying attention. So a deliberate distraction.

I think so. I mean, you look at a lot of the bills that are discussed, you know, a small percentage of things that are happening in the government actually cover the headlines, right? And they just live in the headlines. It doesn't mean a lot of stuff isn't happening behind the scenes. And you start reading into some of these bills and the things that are added in the amendments and the addendums in them. And like, what are you, what's going on here?

But do you think it's a concerted effort between politicians and the media? Because it would almost have to be if that's what you're saying, right? Is that, okay, these. I think to a degree, yes. And again, this is my own personal opinion. I think that there is too much money and influence involved. And if you follow the dollars, you're going to find that those individuals, the media and those individuals are going to be intrinsically tied at some point.

And I just think it's an environment where certain things are going to grab headlines. If you're smart enough to make moves and seams in leadership or seems in attention, you wait until an issue becomes huge and then you try to get something done that nobody's going to pay attention to. And you just, you know, it's a little paper cut. But you can bleed to death with enough paper cuts. That's what's concerning me with people bearing their head in the sand because you'll never see any of that. But then also getting, if you get so overwhelmed in your entire life as you're just trying to follow the political environment, you're never going to get anything accomplished in life. Yeah.

So, you know what I mean? Balance. Oh, no, I know. I had, and I talked about this not too long ago. I think it was on the podcast. In fact, it was one I did with my wife. And I used to get riled up because I'd listen to Mark Levin. Yeah.

You know, and Hannity and some of these other guys. And I'd come home and she could tell when. I was listening because I'd be so fired up and pissed off. And it wasn't about work or anything that happened throughout the day. It was about my 15-minute drive home where Hannity did an excellent job of getting me pissed off, which is ultimately his job, right? Yeah. It's, yes, I guess you could say political commentary.

But he's picking the topic that pisses you off. Right. Deliberately. Yeah. Right. Because you want to listen. Yeah. Yeah.

It's pretty interesting. Yeah, it is. It's, uh, I don't know. I almost think we'd be better off just getting everybody out of office and starting over again, mandatory like if you can't balance the budget you're out. Well there's that I mean that's common sense like yeah you what you would think it's common sense. Yeah it doesn't mean it's common virtue. No but it's just it's crazy to me it's like really like turn limits. Hey we don't have any money. Okay so I would love to do all of these wonderful things for everybody

on the face of the planet we don't have any money we can't so let's be practical about this but no you can't you can't do that you your heart's got to be bigger than your pocketbook. Yeah it's and again it's So it's tempting for me not to want to pay attention to it. So I just keep my feet involved in it just enough. So I have an idea of what's going on. And then I just avoid any and all political arguments and discussions. I just don't see them getting anything accomplished. I think this comes back down to, you know, lead your family well, lead your neighbors well,

leading your business. You know, I think we have a level of stewardship over the people who, uh, listen in and tune in and follow along with us. Lead, lead those people well. And, and I think a lot of the stuff starts to take care of itself. Yeah, I agree, man. Yeah. So what's on the docket for you? Anything new and exciting or anything coming up? You know, I was talking with Pete and Brian about this last night on their podcast. They were asking me what's going on. And for me, I'm trying to just maximize the things that I do and not add more. When I first got out of the military, I was very open to just taking every single opportunity, which is terrible from a time management perspective. Do you think it's a necessity at some point, though?

I don't know if I would say it's a necessity. I think it was an important step for me to take. given the background and headspace that I was coming from, but perhaps it's not the right steps for other people to take. I just, you know, the first and 15th are the best days of the month of the military. Yeah. You're getting a government check. Right. And then, you know, you kind of lose that.

And so it becomes, well, where am I going to get money from? I'll take every opportunity. Right. So you're getting pulled in a million directions. Not obviously not a million direction, but you're being pulled in many directions. And I found myself doing a lot of things. And I'd rather just really value the time more than the money. So I'm trying to trim away.

the things that are excessively weighing on my time, doing the things financially that makes sense that I can maximize and have more time. So I'm trying to do more with less, essentially. Yeah. That's really about it. That makes sense. I think that's a level of, uh, well, it's a level of maturity. Yeah.

I mean, so like the podcast, you know, continuing along, I never had any desire for the podcast to really be anything other than sitting down and having conversations with people. And then it can actually realize, oh, there's an economic perspective of this that's interesting. And I can still do these things. and it doesn't take much time. I do a lot of public speaking, which some of that is driven directly from the podcast.

So it's a way for me to get more from not adding any additional time constraints. Right. Which the public speaking is by far the most financially rewarding and less time consuming. And the endorsement deals continue, some consulting deals continue, but just trying to maximize those

and make sure that I partner with the right companies and it's the right allocation of my time. Yeah. And that's really about it. So just more than another way to describe that would be just cleaning up my life. Right. Come to a business perspective. That makes sense.

Just being more efficient with the time that you have and knowing how you're utilizing it. Yeah. Are you coming to a immersion camp this year? I'm going to try to. It's at the beginning of hunting season. Oh, yeah. That's tough. I know it's funny because I have a lot of these guys that that I kind of run in that circle a little bit now.

But, you know, inviting them on the podcast. You're like, yeah, yeah, reach out to me in the beginning of the year because they're gone for the fall. at August and then they're just they're completely vapor locked on their mind on hunting. Right. I'll make it if I can. I've really been enjoying doing Jiu-Jitsu. It's been hugely beneficial for me from a physical and mental perspective. And I see no reason why that would ever change.

So it definitely would like. And I've just recently started training a little bit outside of just the environment of the gym that I train at in Montana. I trained the SBG system, which stands for straight to blast gym. I trained in the Calispell location or the Whitefish location. and I've just really been training with that group of people. I love them to death and I'm very hesitant to train with people outside of that environment because people, I bring your ghee, dude, let's roll. I'm like, no.

I'm not doing that. I can tell from the tone of your text or message that you were just going to destroy me and piss off. You did that to me, so now I know where. Yeah. And so it's like, hey, I'm very selective, but I also just really enjoy it. And I like the different flavors and approaches and all that stuff that goes with it. It's been really good. Cool.

Yeah. Yeah, it has been good. Right on, man. Well, I just want to let you know. I appreciate you. I know we're winding down on time. Oh, I didn't ask you the question. I got to ask you the question.

What's the question? The question is, what does it mean to be a man? What does it mean to be a man? Oh, outside of the physiological perspective? Yep, that's a prerequisite. We don't need to. I think most people listening understand that. Yeah.

All right. I'm just curious how much time I can stall here on my answer. What does it mean to be a man? I think it means to me that you say, stand up for what is right, regardless of the potential consequences, whether they be great or insignificant, that you can hold the line on doing what is correct. Right on, man. I love it. Powerful. Cool. All right. I think we're going to go, we're going to go roll. We are going to go roll. I'm going to try to choke you with your beard. I'm going to try to choke you with my beard too,

so we'll see you. Bring it. We'll see you get to it first. Awesome, man. Thanks, brother. Yep. That's it for this week. Thank you again to Blue Chew for supporting the Clear It Hot podcast. Make sure you visit Blu.com and get your first shipment free when you use the promo code hot. Like I said, the way I'm looking at it, it is uppercase. You're going to pay just $5 for shipping. That's bluechew.com, B-L-U-C-H-E-W dot com promo code hot, uppercase.

And what else? Other than what I always say, thank you for. the support of the podcast. I just put an order in or I'm putting an order in to reload all of the podcast shirts. I know I'm almost out of just about every one of the options. So I'm going to fix that. It's going to take a few weeks, but we'll get it back up and running. I really appreciate people taking the time to listen, taking the time to tell people about the podcast and reaching out to me with their questions and feedback. I do the best I can to get back to every single email. Currently, I'm in behind right now, but I will do the best I can to get back to you.

And I think that's about it. I'll see you guys next week.