Cleared Hot - Powered By BRCC - Cleared Hot Episode 98 - The Mother of All Podcasts with Joe Rogan, Jocko Willink, John Dudley, and Cameron Hanes

Episode Date: September 30, 2019

It took some time, but we were finally able to assemble the most amazing group of podcast guests in the known universe.  Joe Rogan is likely the most successful podcaster on the face of the planet, a stand-up comedian, and commentator for the UFC. Jocko Willink is a retired Navy SEAL, author of multiple NY Times best-selling books, and the host of the Jocko Podcast. John Dudley is a world-class archer and bowhunter, owner of Nock On, and an incredible resource for anyone interested in archery and bowhunting.   Cam Hanes is not only a world-class bowhunter, he is also an amazing endurance athlete, oftentimes completing a marathon per day during his training an preparation. 

All right, ladies and gentlemen, here we go. Episode number 98 of the Clared Hot podcast is, actually, surprisingly enough, brought to you by True Believer. Now, if you listen to the podcast, you may recognize the name of that book, because that is specifically what this sponsorship is for. An audiobook. True Believer was written by a good friend of mine named Jack Carr. We started in Buds together between the two of us.

Only one of us was actually tough enough to make it through with the hardest Bud's class on record in the history of training. One out of the two of us was able to graduate with that class. It wasn't Jack. It's not that big of a deal. We don't have to celebrate it or make him feel bad. But it is what it is. Jack claims to be six foot tall.

He's actually 5.11 and a half. I'm six foot. tall. I'm taller than him. And he has a glorious beard. But none of anything that I just said actually matters. So let's get back to what the episode's actually about or sponsored by. So it's sponsored by a true believer, which is the latest audiobook in the best-selling author Jack Carr's Terminal List series. So it's his second book. I believe he's finished with the third and already cranking on the fourth. It's a high-intensity roller coaster ride from start to finish. The true believer audiobook follows former Navy SEAL James Reese, whose skill cunning and

heroism again puts the U.S. government in his debt. True Believer explodes with action and authenticity that cements Jack Carr, that's two R, C-A-R-R, as the new leader in high-stakes throws. The audio edition of True Believer is available wherever audio books are sold. You should go check it out. I've read the book, the physical copy. The audiobook, I have no doubt, would also equally be amazing. And it's a really, if you never listen to an audiobook, book, it's a different experience because you can hear oftentimes the author or whoever they have reading the book. There's just something different in the inflection of their voice when it comes to working through the narration of the novel. And that's it. So go check it out. Wherever

audiobooks are sold, check out True Believer. Now on to episode number 98. My guests, and definitely multiple guests on this episode, let's start from the top and work our way down. Actually, these are in no particular order. Today on the podcast, we have Joe Rogan. And if you don't know who Joe is, I don't, I don't really know what to tell you. So go look him up. Comedian, podcaster, UFC commentator, all around amazing human being. Then we have Jocko Willink. Jocko is a retired seal. He and I have never worked directly for or with each other, but we were certainly peripheral inside of the seal teams. He retired after 20 years. Now, I would say, focuses his time and effort on pushing those leadership lessons that were constantly

reinforced inside of the SEAL teams to the civilian public. He has an amazing company called Echelon Front. You should definitely check it out. He has children's books. He has books for adults, extreme ownership, the dichotomy of leadership, and also the Jocko podcast, which is pretty damn amazing. Then we have Mr. John Dudley, who, again, you listen to this podcast. You know who John is. He is the most returning. How would you say that? He's the most frequent guests that I have because I constantly spend my time with him. Guys, definitely my best friend, and he is the most generous human being that I've ever met

with his time, effort, energy, and knowledge. It is unbelievable. And the successful hunt that I just had at the end of last week wouldn't have been possible without everything that John is done for me. We also had joining us Cameron Haynes. So these two guys go hand in hand in the bow hunting community. These guys are on the front leading edge of what I think is possible in that community.

I actually first heard about bows and bow hunting from an episode of Joe's podcast where he and Cameron were sitting down, obviously talking about their mutual love for bow hunting. But Cam's a pretty amazing individual. If you follow his Instagram, which you should, you're going to see the guy constantly out there doing reps with his bow. And occasionally, he likes to run a marathon a day, which in my mind is psychotic because I hate running and I'm not really capable of doing running anymore after my ankle injury. but it's unbelievable to see the effort that Cameron puts in. And he's an incredible bow hunter as well.

So those are the guests. Also, we had a very quick, I think Brock said five words or potentially less, but Brock White hopped on there, Brock from Riley White RV, who has also been a sponsor of the podcast and a longtime friend. And that's the guess. Oh, yeah, and I was on there too. And obviously I am the chucklehead idiot who has no business being with this group of amazing individuals.

But I was there and they gave me a microphone. So before you start thinking that this episode is all about hunting, it's not, even though we've talked at a hunting camp. There's diverse experience and knowledge in that group of people. We talked about hunting, obviously, because that's where we were. But it rolled through quite a diverse set of topics from life, leadership, mental toughness, parenting, hardship, frustration, and a lot more. So dig in. The Mother of All Podcasts.

The One Podcasts to Rule Them All, Episode Number 98. coming at you. To run smoke. West of the smoke. I'm looking at danger close now. Come on a minute. Can't be cleared hot. Hey, hey, hey, what's up, everybody?

Knock on podcast. Cleared hot podcasts. Is it a swap cast? You guys swap casting? I thought it was a simulcast. I can't keep up with the terms. They make them up. You can make up a new cast.

Yeah. Quadcast. Hunt Camp cast. I'll just take this file. and send it to anybody who wants it. And you can do it with it what you want. Any thoughts on this? I remain neutral.

Of course. Yeah, he is not going to get in that argument. Perfect. All right, well, we're sitting at a round table. We're in a hunting camp with a bunch of awesome people. Where do we even start? They're not that awesome. It's a few people.

Not with us. Not in this table. All right. I wasn't going to say that. It was a way to kick it off. I wasn't going to say that, but I was thinking it. Me too. No, it's been fucking awesome, man.

I mean, if anybody can have this kind of a fun experience in their life, they're doing great. Yeah. You get this kind of a camp of great dudes hanging out, having fun, and then you're hunting, the most amazing animals on the world, at the most amazing place to hunt. What? At the most amazing time, because they're losing their minds. Perfect week, the perfect week. And then as John explained to us, the moon phases and all that shit.

I told you'd be good. Oh, my God. Good. Jocko. Yeah. Dude, you have to describe this whole journey. Leave nothing out. You, yeah.

You shot your first bowl yesterday. I did. I did. And approximately five hours ago, we've set that sucker and, like, bagged, tagged, and in the freezer. You know, Andy and I were talking earlier. sometimes you do like an operation, a mission, and a bunch of things go wrong, but you still pull it off and you get the job done and you get back to camp and you all look at each other and you say, well, we got away with that one.

We still got the mission done. Let's never do that again, but we learned a lot. So that's kind of what I feel like. Learned a lot. You still won the mission, you know, got the job done. Yeah. But definitely learned a lot. And, you know, the other thing is, what is it, win or learn?

And this is a very nice situation where I got to win and learn. Oh. You know, so that was pretty cool. I was talking with Cam about that. So, yeah, it was definitely an awesome experience to be here. And a lot of it, again, talking to Andy, because Andy's here, you know, coming out to this place is like we used to go on training trips or go on deployment. And you get your gear into a bag and you go to a place where no one's bothering you. and you only have one job,

and that's to go out and kill whatever thing it is that you're supposed to kill. And so here... Andy, laugh out loud. You can't suppress that. He's just leading back. I just love it. But it is.

You know, you... I mean, think about what I just said. You get a bag full of gear. Some of the gear that you have is meant to kill things. Then you put all the gear in that bag. Then you go to this place. No one...

There's no Wi-Fi here. There's no people talking. to you and your one mission is to go out and kill this thing that you've been assigned to kill. And it's awesome. And I think most human beings, this is where I'm kind of a little bit, you know, maybe not totally in sync with the rest of the world and all that. But most people are thinking that that's pretty cool, right? Like when you were a kid, if someone said, hey, when you grow up, what we're going to do

is we're going to give you a mission where you're going to go out and, you know, you have to go kill something. And you'd be pretty fired up for that. well I would have been for sure I think most people well as far as I know um Joe would kick him in the head

he might not kill him the primal thing to fight the primal thing to hunt it's a primal thing it's very primal for sure wait till you eat it wait to eat that elk that's when you really that's what it really sets in something crazy about eating something that you killed

like it gives you this weird feeling when you serve it to your family yeah that too or or good friends where you know you tell them like, here's how this whole thing played out, and you can relive that story. Yours will be pretty cool. And then, yeah, you're sitting there doing it.

And what I find really neat about it is, if I go out to a restaurant and there's leftovers and they say, do you want to take it home? I'm like, no. You know, if I haven't eaten it, I don't want to take it home. If there's leftovers, I'm like, put that in the bag. because there's no I mean we went in a long way for your bowl

so if someone's wanting to dump that in the garbage game no not happening see that right that's I think that's a key part that's one of the things that stands out you know for me what hunting means to me versus any other time I eat

I think it's the effort that you put in has value to it and people that don't hunt, it's really hard to explain that. Maybe they should put on a rucksack and get out in the woods. That's my recommendation.

Come with me tomorrow. What if they live in New York, Jocko? Go to upstate New York. What if they can't? You travel, what, 45 minutes outside of New York City and you're in woods. Yeah, and you've got to get a Lime disease. True.

Straight up. What's up with no bugs here, no mosquitoes? I've taken some amazing naps on the ground with zero bites. What is up with that? Which is spectacular. That's a good point. Why even think about that? Why even jinx that?

Is it the altitude? Yes. It must be the altitude. It must be. It must be the altitude. And every time I see like a dumb war movie or just movie and people are always out in the woods and are like, why aren't their mosquitoes eating their heads? Which is what it's like all the time. That's what you think about when you watch those movies?

Oh, man, we're watching those from a different angle. When Cam took. me to Alberta for the first time. I had no idea of mosquitoes were that aggressive. Is that when you discovered the thermosel? Oh my God, that's a gem. But the whole time I'm breathing in that thermosel fumes, I'm like, how much

do you have to do this before you get cancer? Like, how many puffs? Three. Three. Six. Three. I said three. Almost worth it. So you forgot your thermicel in Alberta. Your redneck solution. No offense to any rednecks was pretty amazing.

Did you piss all over your face? What was it? He was lighting the pads with a lighter. Yeah, I forgot the thermosel, but I had the pads. So I just lit them on fire, and I just waft them around, and when the smoke would run out, I'd light them on fire again. I went through about 12 of them. I wouldn't leave the car without two of those things on at all times.

Alberta's got some crazy mosquitoes. Oh, that's bad. The only thing that I've experienced is Alaska. Oh, yeah. Alaska mosquitoes. They're bigger than regular mosquitoes. They're more aggressive. You ever see those Instagram pages where they take pit bulls and they breed them into this strange new thing?

It just is like it looks like a pit bull, but it's 220 pounds. That's Alaska mosquitoes. 220 pounds. Another level. They have a... It's a small hummingbird. But here, no bugs. Yeah.

It's freaking amazing. It's awesome. Yeah. Cam, you've hunted in Alaska. What is it? Is that... Manning it over. The case at high altitude in Alaska are the...

there bugs at high altitude there um Alaska's not high no place not really even in the mountains when you're hunting sheep. Mountain McKinley is yeah I mean but yeah even sheep countries 6,000 really that's it it's not high what are we at here seven seven something okay yeah pull up that my altitude app but we did me and me and roy did hunt caribou up off the hall road and the mosquitoes were so bad that if we didn't have a hundred percent deed which they say i don't think they say don't put on your skin and we had it all over our whole face all over every inch of our skin in our mouth the only in the mosquitoes would because they could tell where the deed was they would like hover over your eyeballs and we wanted to put deat on our eyeballs but we didn't

that's how bad they were and they would just bounce off the back of your head just like non stop. And we said if you didn't have 100% deed, you would for sure go insane and probably go mad and kill yourself. Rinella was telling me that they kill small caribou. Mosquitoes? They're so ferocious up there. They get

baby caribu and they sting them all around their eyeballs until they die. Do you remember the deep spray they gave us? Oh, yeah. I used to drink that stuff. It had a warning on it. We would saturate our camees and like do not wear Yeah. For 24 hours.

And we would do the jungle trips, and you'd just lay your stuff out and just, and immediately just put them on and go out there. It's the only thing that works when it bugs that bad. The jungle's the only thing worse than the mosquitoes you guys are talking about. Which jungle? Most jungles. Any jungle I've ever been in is the absolute worst environment humanly possible.

Which jungle stand out? I was down in Panama. That jungle sucked. I was in Thailand. That jungle sucked. I was in the Philippines. That jungle sucked. Every jungle I've ever seen or been in.

They suck. Everything in there is sharp. The floor moves. Go ahead and lay down and take a nap like I was doing earlier today. You're going to wake up six feet from where you were with half your skin missing. There's monkeys in there that are like a foot tall. They're howler monkeys. They scare the shit out of you because it sounds like King Kong's coming through the jungle.

They'll also steal your stuff. What else has happened? Black palm? Yeah. Black palms like spikes all over it. Can you make a deal with them to get the step back? Yeah, you can trade him for a 5-5-6 round and I'll drop it. Yeah, the jungle's the worst environment I've ever been in.

The mosquitoes are just a portion of that. So it's the only way I think that you could make that scenario worse. Yeah. Yeah, so this scenario here, from that, the desert obviously is just incredibly hot. Slash cold. Slash freezing cold. The mountain's freezing cold. and here is just beautiful.

Beautiful. It's like the best. The views, there were so many times we were today just walking around at the top of the ridge going, look at this place. And right now the trees are just starting to turn. Oh, my God, it's stunning. And just for miles and miles, as far as I can see,

just beautiful mountains and wilderness, just gorgeous. The only thing you could bitch about here is the wind. Because when we were bow hunting, the wind was everywhere. You try to play the wind as a bow hunter. You have to. And so that's a bullhunting. That's really about the only negative you can come up with is the wind was unstable. Wasn't that crazy, though, about today, like when we got to that final place that just rut fest,

where it didn't seem to matter to them if they caught our wind. They were so nuts. Yeah, all I can figure is we just got lucky. I mean, the one that was coming up to our left, it did spook. Yes. So it smelled us. The ones, I felt wind at the back of my head a few times, and I thought, game's over. And all I can figure is between us and the elk, there had to be some other thermal pushing it some other way.

Maybe. So I have a question about this, because I've been thinking about this. On our walks in, a lot of the times the wind is either at our back, because we're going down or it's in an angle, and then we're coming back, looping around to hunt back in. Yeah. So I have to assume that they're smelling us a little bit. So is there just a threshold that they will tolerate? Well, when you, normally when you cover distance to get the wind right, you're on top of the ridge. Yep. Right.

Like basically right on the top. Right. So you're hoping that they're not that close to the top of the ridge. Yeah. And you're hoping that it's doing something different by the time it gets there. But you're just kind of hustling, probably fast, getting down there, hopefully cutting your losses and you're not spooking a bunch of them. And then you come in low or mid-ridge level from between the creek and the top of the ridge. and have the wind right the whole way.

So, yeah, I mean, if there's elk on top of the ridge and you get wind at your back, of course you're going to spook them. Okay. I'm just curious how far down it goes or how much of the tolerance they would have. Yeah. The beauty for me so far has been, we would do that. We would hustle to get down there and then it would just shift on us down there, which is awesome. Yeah.

Well, there is no, they don't have any tolerance. I mean, that's the thing. I've watched more than one come in and just go, whoop. I'm going to go check out something over here. Cam, we didn't get barked out at all today. Uh, we didn't. That's crazy. I know.

I know. You know, I think, uh, we were in so many bowls when it finally got good. You know, we, we stumbled around for a couple hours with, it was just, I mean, we, I think spent some time like working too hard to get on on some quiet elk. Yeah. And finally we just cut our losses and said, okay, let's, we don't need to work this hard because we had bowls lighting up. And during that make it all the way over to the other side. Right. We had to get over there.

But once we got over there, it was so insane. I think a bark would have just been another noise. You know what I mean? We had that this morning. We may have had that somebody, somebody may have barked at us. But who knows? Because there's so many bugles going on.

It's, Cam has recordings because it was so bonkers. As we're walking in, he's just recording it going, this doesn't even make sense. Caleb was doing the same thing. He would just stop and whip his phone on. I'd look back and he's just like, where am I ever going to hunt after this?

I know. Not a second where there was no screaming. Yeah, I have a minute in some clip, but there was just one minute out of an hour. But it was, there was never an idle moment of no bugle. Jeez, that's insane. Yeah, it was. When we went in this morning to recover Jocko's bowl, we spotted a really good bull parallel in the hill above us.

So we kind of tried to work around. and this bull, there was a big bull high, but there was kind of a satellite bowl underneath. And we kind of figured we've got to bust this satellite bull to make a play on the bigger bowl that was still coming down. And the satellite bull just started barking, like full-blown, like, barks. Yeah. And when he would bark, every other bull that could hear it would bugle to the bark.

Yeah. It was like a shock gobble, you know. for like turkeys. And I'm sitting there thinking like he's trying to tell everybody that there's people down here. And they're like, I can be louder than that. Yeah. Danger. Yeah, it's like to take it as a challenge.

But I did see, I don't, I can't remember if it was today or yesterday, but a bull bark and turn it the next time the bark into a bugle. So it was like. Yeah. Yep. I've heard that a couple times. Yeah. He's making, like I'm making a noise and I forgot what I was doing midway through the bark and then just turn it into a bugle. That's how it wound up these guys are.

It's almost like they're trying to remember, like, how do I bugle? I've been barking all year, but, oh, yeah, I got a bugle right now. How many days do you guys think they get this crazy? 14. This crazy like they are today? I think, I don't know. It could be 14, but I would say it might be seven really crazy. It might be seven magical days where it's like this.

And we hit it. We hit it. Well, there's a couple things. The moon is very small. I think 14 percent, was that what it was? So they're not They're not as active as I think it's coming back up

Now I think it was gone Was it fully gone? And coming back up Yeah so That plays into their activity During the day Because they're not as active as not At night

And then it's just prime time I mean it's just been amazing We got lucky this week The time's perfect And they They can't fully function at night Because it's pretty dark So they utilize the day

Yeah Whereas last year You could hunt all day. I mean, every hour of daylight, you could get into screaming bulls. If you know, yeah, if you know where they are and you get with it close to their bedroom and you, if you bugle, that, that herd bull is going to let you know, like, don't get in here. They're talking.

Yeah. It was, it was, it was crazy last night. We, we worked pretty hard to get into a group for, for Jocco's bull, and his bull was doing a pretty dang good job of fighting off every satellite bull within that canyon. And the sun was coming down behind his bull, and his bull had fought so many times that the dust in the area was like in the thermals, like lifting up and spinning around. And you could, it looked like a swarm of mosquitoes, but it was just dust, just burrowing around. And, you know, and it was just lighting up because of the sunset.

That's affecting air quality for one. Yeah, yep. That's why you have to shoot elk. But, you know, you see these bulls, and every bull we've killed when we skin it out, there's just wounds and bruises. These things have been at war. And a big part of what should be mentioned is I think there's 80 bulls per 100 cows here, which on public land, there's places that are seven bulls per 100 cows.

So what that means with 80 bulls per 100 cows is a competition is so fierce. A cow comes in heat, and these bulls are just drawn. to, I need to breed that cow, but there's other bulls that want to do the same thing. And it's just, it makes for an amazing rut because it's so competitive. And pretty much our calling has no effect. I mean, they're so insane and intent on doing what they do. And they're looking at something that's making a vocal noise. So when they hear a vocal sound and don't get a visual, it's obsolete.

Yeah. Because they're looking at. They're dealing with the stuff in front of them. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's timing, but it's also the management of this property that's allowed this, you know, taking old bulls. My bulls nine and a half. What was Jock's?

Jocco's was 11, I think. 11 or 12. Right. Jocco's Mike. Sorry everyone. Well, I'm going to give it back because I want to say one thing real quick. One thing that I, that should be mentioned because I've been on, and as you, this long bow hunting journey of 30 years. And the success you guys have had as new bow hunters is incredible.

Part of it is, you know, amazing coaching and mentoring as far as hunting goes and getting your equipment set up right and being dedicated to the sport and shooting. Because when we came up, there was an internet. There was no, like, I'll steal a term from you guys, but a boot camp, which is essentially what, you know, we've done. and you guys have learned and taken this on just incredibly well to kill big bulls in their first years of bow hunting. Jocko's very first year is, I mean, I can't even tell you how against the odds it is. It's incredible.

I just want to say how impressed I am with that and then seeing not only the results, you know, I wasn't with Jocko. John was. I've never been with Andy when he's been successful, but seeing Joe make the shot today that he made was, I mean, it was unreal. 67 yards and as calm as anybody can be and put that arrow in if there's... Inside of a coffee cup. More than that. I say next. Like a bottle cap. Like a 12 ring. And it was like one of the most beautiful things I've seen watching an arrow arc and hit in there. And so I just want to acknowledge the, you know, I mean. Joe brought up a good point too.

He says, I think part of it is training. I just want to touch on it real quick is the military training. It's the same, it's the same but different, I think. You know, when you get dedicated to a weapon in a process and that's what you do. And then Joe, same with the training for martial arts. You know, it's not that. You've got to be dedicated to the journey in the process. Everyone in here is committed to a process.

that they were taught to be at their best. That helps, but you're not going to get there without great mentoring. It's because of you guys, for sure. It's because Cam introduced me to bow hunting and helping me, and with you guiding me today, made a gigantic difference. And also, motivation-wise, I wanted to make you happy, you know? I mean, this was, I'm here because of you. I mean, that's how I got into bow hunting, 100%.

You know, with you coaching me, with John teaching me, I mean, I'm so fortunate. There's no way I would be a fraction of as successful as I've been without you guys, or a fraction of the skill that I have. I think that applies to all of us. Yeah, for sure. I mean, the first time I went bow hunting, he peeled off five days of a 10-day hunt to be over my shoulder. And I'm just like, what, he's like, you're ready. I'm like, okay, cool, where should I look?

Yeah, it's crazy. It's like Hicks and Gracie privately coaching you how to do Jiu-Jitsu every day. Yeah. And not even training himself, you know, just coaching you. It's crazy. You know, we're just real, real lucky. So thank you guys. Appreciate it, fellas.

To me, I mean, this is one of the favorite things. I do a lot of crazy shit. This is one of my favorite things I've ever done in all of my life. And it's better for sure because of you guys. Well, I think there's so much importance to, to, you three and bringing a very positive attention to what you know are you 30 years you 30 you said 30 years bohunting 31 I started when I was 9 43 now so I mean Cam and I have honestly we probably I would say it'd be safe to say we we had 40 years probably before we ever experienced like what you guys have in the last

year i mean you know we i can't even tell you how many times i went white tail hunting and had no idea that you shouldn't put a stand up where the sun's on you in the evening or i would just i had one stand that i could afford so i never even thought about what weighs the wind blowing today i just wanted to hunt so I just went and my wind was wrong in the whole night and I never saw anything and then finally someone came along and they're like you hunt here all the time your wind is always blowing in the food crop and I'm like what does that mean how about put it on the other side of the field where this where you're in the shadows in the evening and your wind is blowing away from the food source that everything's coming to and I'm like oh okay well yeah that makes

sense. Thanks for telling me. I've been doing this for the last three years and haven't ever seen anything. You know, it's, I mean, and I think the whole, the whole synergy of what's going on with guys like yourselves and, you know, recognizing something that we're super passionate about, you know, this is like ultimately been our lives. And it's rewarding for me. I mean, for me to give up half of my hunt to, you know, like I told you, Jocko, I'm not shooting unless you shoot. You know, and this is, this is a hunt of a lifetime. For me, you know, to, for me to be able to come here with really good friends, it's a hunt of a lifetime.

But there's no way I would, you know, I would, I really want to make sure you're, you're good to go. I wanted to make sure when I hunted with Joe a few times, I really wanted to make sure he was I know Cam did the same with Joe. With Andy, it's like, you know, I hunted to the point where I feel like he really understood a lot of things. And, yeah, then at some point, you have to let that person. Well, Andy told me he was sick of you hanging around, so. Okay.

Yeah, my sister's just not having any success at all when he's there. No, what I think is awesome is it's awesome. Like these guys have just said, we've been blessed or whatever you want to call. call it, to have you guys, like, straight up on us, helping us. But what's really incredible is the fact that you guys do this for the grand, for the public, for everyone. Everyone, go to your YouTube channel, look at your Instagram, see what Cam's doing today, see what John Dudley's doing today.

And you're going through the details of exactly how to do. I mean, the stuff that you've told me to do, when I watch your videos, I'm like, he told me that, he told me that, yep, he told me that. You're giving the information away. you know, when you want to know what Cam's doing to get ready for the hunt, like, here's what he's shooting, here's the distance he's shooting. I'm looking down on Instagram going, okay, that looks like a good plan. So the fact that you guys are giving this information out as broadly as you possibly can, that's unbelievable. Because you're not just opening the door to three people sitting in this room that happen to know you. You're opening the door to millions of people that listen to you and can follow you. So I think there's a whole lot of people that appreciate what you're doing, not just us three knuckleheads sitting here.

Yeah, you guys for sure have changed bow hunting. No question about it. You really have changed the way people approach it. Cam, for sure, you changed the way people view it in terms of, like, the athletic requirements. You know, and John, your coaching has completely shifted the way people use release aids and just having that knock-on video series where people can go over step by step. And even you can show them how to tune a bow and how to set it up, how to make your actions. arrows, out of fletch, all that stuff.

I mean, and for someone who lives where there's no good bow shop, but they're really intrigued by it, that's invaluable. It's massive, massive. The bummer part is everything's there that anyone needs to have the success that we're talking about today. But it's just too bad that there's so many people that aren't really wanting to put in the effort to do it. Yeah, but that's the case with everything, man. That's the case with martial arts. It's a case with everything of comedy.

It's the case with everything. It's people that have fast-life. Yeah. What do you say to that, Jocko? 100%. If you don't have the discipline to go out and do what you're supposed to do every day, nothing's going to work out for you. I mean, I guess we could all guess that that's what I was going to say.

Discipline equals. No big shocker. But that's what you've got to do to make things happen. There's no, there's no big. big magical surprise. It's like, oh, if you want to get better at shooting a bow, you got to go out and shoot your bow. You want to get better at writing comedy?

You got to write comedy. I mean, how much crap have you written? Oh, my God. I show to you. He go, who is this idiot? Why do you think this was funny? What do you start with? The beginning of zero.

I start just staring at a blank screen and a computer. I mean, are you thinking of the end first or the beginning? Or just whatever comes to your mind? He just needs one. I would assume one thing that you think's funny and then build off of it. Sometimes. Sometimes I don't have anything. I just start writing shit out and it's nonsense for paragraph after paragraph. And then I might get 800 pages or 800 letters in, 800 words rather in, and I have nothing. And then I have one sentence. I'm like, what's that?

And I'll cut and paste that one sentence in a totally blank document and I'll stare at it. I'll smoke a joint. I'll go back and look at it sideways. And then I'll write some extra stuff on top of that. I'll expand on it. I'll, like, explain it to a child. I'll explain it to an old person. I'll explain it to a cop. I write it out a bunch of different ways.

I'm like, well, that sucks, too. And then I'll start again tomorrow. And then I'll start with something else. And sometimes I just have a great idea. And I write most of those around my phone. You know, because they come out of nowhere, and I just have to just write it down as quick as I can. And then I'll sit down and try to expand that.

But that doesn't give me any excuse if I don't have any ideas on my phone. I still have to write. So just sit there and just try to, and that's how you farm. You want to farm ideas? You got to show up every day, the crack of dawn. You got to be out there. Otherwise, it doesn't grow. It's the only way.

And it's a lot of comics don't do that, and they don't write very many jokes. You and I were talking the other day about, we were talking about someone who, we don't have to say, but we were talking about someone who kept asking me how to improve their shooting. and I kept repeating the same thing. And they kind of said, like, I don't have the time to go through, like, the school knock, and I don't have time to work with a silverback or attention-based release. And then you looked at me and you're like, no one has less time than me, bitch, and I do it. You know, and I said, that's actually really relevant because you don't have time to bow hunt.

No. You definitely don't have time to practice with a bow. Nope. But two weeks were you taking a target with you to a hotel to a jiu-jitsu camp so that you could shoot? Yes, I did. It wasn't a hotel, but it's a camp. Okay. But still, I mean.

I did bring my bow and shoot at camp. If you want to do something, you have to make time to do it and you have to commit to it. Got to have that discipline. If you don't, you're just, you're not going to get there. You're not going to get there. there's no substitute for time, time and effort and focus. The only shortcut is,

and that's what I've learned from you guys, is knowledge. You know, that's the big shortcut, is learning from you guys has cut dramatically on my learning curve. Like, if you went to my studio and looked at the wall, you'd be like,

what have been bow hunting for 30 years? Like, it's just all these heads. And there's all these skulls up there. But no, that's five years of bow hunting. Yeah. Thank you. guys for learning those lessons the hard way.

So yeah. We did. I'll guarantee it. Sometimes Cam and I have talked about, I mean, we start saying, do you remember those? And he said a few where I'm like, oh my gosh, I don't remember that. And then I said, do you remember this? And he's like, remember yesterday? I said, imagine if these guys had to shoot with, what did we say?

Oh, those old cobra sites, the metal cobra sites that screwed flat to your riser and you had three brass pins that you would unscrew it and you could move it in or out and you would lock it down and you'd move it up or down on a rail. Yeah. And it was just a brass pin that came out with the bulb on the end of it. And it was on a flat rail and it's not like there was micro adjustment. once you bite bit that thing down once or twice like that's where it was in the site would just have dense and bent like it's like just mutilated because you of course you didn't shoot were shit so your pins were always changing yeah we're talking about one part of your setup which to go through the other part well yeah yeah like when i when i first started my first rest was called a flipper rest oh yeah all that

did it just uh it was like double-sided tape kind of stuck to the riser and it had a little wire springy thing. Yeah. And it just would stick out and your, your, your arrow would sit on it right against the riser. So you talk about like we have dropaway rest now with zero contact. Yeah. It was slamming into everything on the way behind.

I mean, the first, the very first ones, you stuck them onto the riser. So like, that was your center shot. Yeah. It didn't matter if your arrow was tuned half an inch inside of center. That's where it's stuck. And then finally someone's like, hey, our arrows are constantly fish tailing to the target because the rest needs to be out. So then they made it on a screw. So you could screw it further out and then tighten the nut.

And yeah, the reason people shot feathers is because you contacted everything going through the bow and the feathers would at least lay flat and like limit the amount of contact. Right. So, and back then the releases weren't like they are now, like John's release or even my spot hog. I didn't even have one. I had that three-finger tab with the buckskin on it. So what people, what you do now is your bow is set up perfect, your arrows are matched perfect. And if you just point it and do everything right, you release that. Nothing happens.

There's no string tweak. There's no wrist torque. Nothing happens. And so the arrow is unimped. because you let it go perfect. So the string didn't come to the side. You didn't have to go around your fingers to get off your fingers. And the rest is gone.

So it's unimpeded. When we started all that, the string would have to come around your fingers. And then it's slam into the riser. And then you're like... And you got dog shit pins. And so the goal was, here's how far you can shoot. If you can keep four out of five arrows in a paper plate, that's the distance you can shoot.

Oh, yeah. So the goal was to get a group like this. If you could do this at 40, you were the fucking stud. So now you guys know what you do. You shoot at 80 like, you know, like a baseball. What's the closest you guys have gotten to giving up bow hunting due to just absolute frustration? Usually about a couple times a month. That's true for him.

You guys were around before range fighters. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, the very first range finder, I remember, you had to roll this dial, and you had, you looked through this eyepiece, and half of the eyepiece was like a zero objective. Oh, it was just like this. Yeah, it was about this long. Yep, but it was way thicker. He's hold, for everybody listening, he's holding up a direct TV remote. Yeah, that's how big it was.

And then the images would be like this, and it'd go like this. And then when you got the yard of John, they'd be lined up. And you'd have to look at the dial and it would say like 42. And that was amazing. It was just a focal objective is what. Yeah. And that was a game changer for Bowhunting. That was huge.

If you had a ranging rangefinder, that was the brand. Yeah. You were balling. What year was this? This was like, for me, it was like late 80s, early 90s is when the rangefinders maybe came out. Late 80s. When I first started, I was like, if I. had killed everything I shot at, I'm like, I would be a legend. I miss so many big things,

like giant elk and big bucks. And I'm like, it was impossible. There was so much big stuff running around because no one could hit anything. Yeah. It's true. It is true. Free crossbow, right? But, okay, so listen, but here's the crazy thing. All that being said, so now we have this advancement and technology and we're so much better and all the coaching, it's still freaking bow hunting, you can still fuck it up. I have. Yeah. I mean, it's still your close range, animals, red zone, it can move.

You can make a mistake. I mean, it's still the fine line of success and failure is still razor thin. Yeah. You said something today that at first I disagreed with, but then I realized, what you said and I thought, oh yeah, you're 100% right. You said, no one can ever master bow hunting. And I was about to say, no, I feel like someone can master archery, but I go, oh, no, you're right.

Bow hunting, I agree. You can't master it. I feel like someone could master archery. But bow hunting, the variables, it's just like when you talk about jiu-jitsu. The body manipulates in so many ways. And then there's thousands of people. that their body manipulates differently to the next person. So with animals, the bull that you shot,

I'll guarantee you would, like, in some way, is different than the one Joe shot or the one Jock shot. You know, they're all so different. And then the conditions of where you were, all of you were in a different place. And then that day for the bull, if that bull had just gotten a fight and got beat, he's mad, he's coming,

I mean, here's what he thinks is his cow. He wants a cow because he just got his ass kicked over a cow. It's just, so, yeah, I mean, they have personality and situations just like we do. You could never prepare enough to master it because there's no way for you to fully prepare. Yeah. It's, you have to be ready, and you have to tick all the boxes that you can to be prepared. And then you have to let the cards fall out on the table as they may. and if you're lucky, you've seen them fall that way before,

so you have an advantage. Well, I was even thinking today we were in so close to so many bulls, and we were just right on the cusp of the wind screwing everything up. And so we're basically just fingers crossed, you know. And all it take is like, so there's a little five point that walked by maybe at 30 yards. What if he went downwind, instead of he went up the hill? If he would have blown that up, the bull Joe killed would have been gone. So the decision that that animal made to go one way or another, the wind currents, which nobody can control those.

A big thing I have, and I was telling these guys, we were stuck in the sun, and I was just driving me crazy. I never want to be in the sun. And it's just like all those little micro decisions or little happenstance things where you can do everything right. you can, you know, walk your ass off. You can prepare for months. And all it takes is some weird little thing. And it's like, that's what I say is bow hunting is soul crushing. I mean, but then also because so much is invested.

And what I mentioned today to Joe is like some people go through life and they go to work and their trend goes down a little bit. They get off work and it's up. Go to work, down. Off work up. We go heartbreak down to the floor. success up to the ceiling. And it's just like so many peaks and valleys, but because of the

extreme nature of them, it's like, today you would think me and Joe were gay. We said, we hugged and said we loved each other. So I don't know. On video. After a shot. And Joe's been showing this video and he

just... I cut it off right before that spot. Coincidentally enough stops her right before we exchange vows. You can trim them. You can trim the video. No, no, no. The thing is, though, we were so excited. It was so ridiculous because we had already experienced some lows.

We're blown stocks, and the wind fucked us up, and we got real close, and we thought it was going to happen. It didn't. At one time, this bull had spotted us, and Cam's like, just draw, just draw. And it was at, like, 58 yards. I'd draw on him, and it looks like it wouldn't have him. He's totally broadside. He's a huge bull.

He's in the sun. and then he sees me draw. He's like, I'm out of here. And he takes off and I'm trying to follow him. I follow him. He's in Cam's making cow calls. And I think he's probably like 10 yards further. So I'm like thinking I'm going to aim at the top of his back.

I'm following him and I'm following. And then he's gone. And Cam falls to the ground like somebody electrocuted. I'm like, ah! You can see like the actual agony. Like the real how we thought we had it. Ah! I was in real pain.

Real, like legit. pain. So then when I make this shot and it just center punch this elk, we were just beyond, you know, it was above the moon. It was crazy. Those highs are just, like you said, most people just don't experience highs like that.

They just don't, they don't ever get there. That's one thing. I'm thankful for social media. I'm thankful for, we all play, you know, social media is a big part of what we do. So we can share this journey. But I think even though it's not quite two-weeners touching gay, but it's a little bit gay.

But it's like, when people see that, they're going to see that passion because it's real. It was raw. It was real. And I can't help but think people are going to say, I don't have that passion in my life. Right. If bow hunting gives these guys that much, I need to know more about it. The journey to get to that spot. There's two people here for sure that, like, I think, I mean, Jocco's been here.

Jocko's done it once, but I know for sure for Andy, I've seen. seen it in his face where I knew it was life-changing. Like, I knew 100%. And for you, I know it changed your life. 100%. Yeah, no doubt. The road to get to where you can stay calm and execute a 67-yard shot on a screaming bull, stud, herd bull.

Like, that's a long road, man. A lot of people don't want it. It's like the road to get a black belt, right? Jocko, you remember first day at Jiu-Jitsu? Yeah. Imagine that one day you just be strangling people. Should have tapped. Should have tapped.

Should have tapped. Andy loves that. If you got a bluebell yet? I did. I got my bluebell about a month ago. Congratulations. Yeah, I mean, remember when you first started, like the idea of tapping people on a regular basis seemed like almost alien, right? Yes.

it was I'm like okay I'm trying very hard you're not trying hard I'm stronger than you and in my mind I'm saying if I really tried to push you off of me you would get off of me and then I would try it and it's like what in the fuck I can't get you off me oh by the way the person I'm talking about it's on top of me it's a woman I can't get her off of me

you got tapped by a chick oh yeah one of the main instructors where I train is a female black belt and she's a savage She's awesome. I got a female black belt in my school that taps out dudes regularly. On the regular. She taps out black belt guys. It happens.

Every open mat, she's out there handing people their ass. I believe it, man. My friend Felicia, Felicia O, it was a time when there's a guy named Seymour Butts. He was a porn star who had a Showtime show. What? Yeah, it had a Showtime show. It was like way back in the day. Showtime had this show and it was about him.

And this is like, we're talking, 2000. two-ish. And so he wanted to do this episode where he would go to a jiu-jitsu school and learn jujitsu and, like, get beat up by a girl. And I guess he probably thought that a girl wouldn't really beat him up. And Felicia is about 135 pounds. And, dude, she's super technical and strong. She's always doing kettlebells and stuff.

But I think in his mind, no, this is a 135-pound woman. This is just like, this is never going to happen. And she just kept strangling him over and over again, getting him in arm bars, triangle, taking his back, choking his shit out of him. And, I mean, mauled this guy, mauled him, like tapped him eight, nine, ten times. And that shit never made air. That footage never made the air. And we were sitting there.

It was before Tenth Planet really had a gym, we were at this place called the Bomb Squad. And 10th Planet, like, as an idea, just had started. And we were both standing there. I mean, Eddie Bravo and I were standing there watching. Felicia just manhandle this dude going, this is why women should learn jujitsu. It's one of the rare martial arts where a person could be weaker than you and fuck you up.

Because the reality of striking is a lot. I mean, it's definitely skill, you know, definitely technique. All those things are great. But if a guy just knows a couple things. You know how to throw a jab and a right hand and you know distance, but you have, like, Deontay Wilder power. Like, you're going to fuck people up. Like, that's just how it works.

Like, that never exists in Jiu-Jitsu. There's no guy who just has no experience, but he's strong and he knows how to move quick, and he just beats everybody in Jiu-Jitsu. It doesn't happen. It doesn't happen. It's the rare martial art where you see it's like a, you know, Bruce Lee movies, the little guy beats the big guy.

In the real world, the little guy gets smashed. That's just how it goes. Because the little guy punches the big guy in the face, and he goes, oh, really? And then he grabs your little tiny body and drills it into the ground. Yeah.

You know, but that doesn't, in Jiu-Jitsu, those big guys, they don't know what's happening. So they're making moves and they're exposing their back or they're exposing their limbs or they don't know, they don't, even if they try to finish a technique, they don't know they're doing it wrong, so they're just gassing their arms out,

and they have all this muscle that has to be fed by oxygen, and they just tire out so quickly, and then they can't believe they're tapping, and there's a chick behind them, and she's just wrenching on their neck, and she's got them in a body triangle, and they can't believe they're tapping, but they can't get that fucking forearm off their throat,

and that's reality. That's the reality of Jiu-Jitsu. But the road to get from being a regular woman to being this Felicia O character or the woman that you know or the woman that you know. Over a decade. That is an incredible person. That's an incredible person.

That road to have the physical, this gigantic disadvantage. You don't have the physical strength, you know? Like, that's an incredible person. And so this path is, it parallels bow hunting. It parallels a lot of things. The first day you started, you're like, this is crazy. Like, I remember Cam taking me into my backyard,

and we're shooting these targets that I had set up. And, you know, he brought me a bow. And I remember thinking, watching this guy's videos on YouTube, this guy's, like, killing elk in the mountains? Like, how do you, how are you, I can't even shoot this stupid targets that's 20 feet away from me? Like, how are you shooting elk? And they're moving, and they're on a,

hill, they're above you? You've got to shoot up? Like, how do you? The road is so long that most people to learn correctly to go from one to where you guys are at. It's just, it's too far.

It's definitely easier now. Yeah, it's way easier now. It's like, there's a big buffet that's spread out there, but what you put on your plate and what you eat is really up to you. But it's all out there. I feel like.

I've done the best job I possibly can to not have any secret. Like, I don't feel like, well, Andy, you know me probably, well, you and Joe know me better than anyone here. And is there anything where I've, like, told you where I said, this isn't something I've talked about? Not really. You spill it out for everybody. But that's also why you've got this dedicated following of people that, you know, learn. from you. You know, they know that, like, you talk about your failures, you talk about, and as to you, Kim, you were always talking about that first bully shot, and, you know, you waited so long

to get that opportunity, and the fucking arrow bounces off his shoulder. Yeah. And it's, yeah, and that was just, that should have been a sign that this is going to be really painful. There's going to be times where I question my life, like, my life decisions, and I've been on Hans that, you know, it's like a dream hunt. So I paid a lot of money to be there And it's a once in a lifetime opportunity And I thought You know, if I screw up

I'm letting down my family And people who believe in me It's like, what am I doing? What? Why can I, maybe I should just give this up And do something now. It's like, it has you questioning Everything you've done

And all the sacrifices you've made And it's just like, God, is it worth it? And then we have days like today. Yeah. Where it's, it feels, I said, after you did that, I said, if I die, I was leaning against a tree and his bulls is laying right there. And I said, if I die right now, I'm going to be happy.

I'm good. I'm good. I can die. Yeah. And that's how good it was. Yeah. Jocco's coming in, coming in hot. You know, we're talking a lot about like this big reward and all that.

But one thing that I just like about things is, like, like, you know, like, you know, Last night, I shot this bull, wounded it, it ran, we followed his blood. It got dark. We, the blood fizzled out right there. We couldn't see it anymore. It didn't fizzle out. It didn't fizzle out. We couldn't see it anymore.

It made a sharp turn to where we couldn't identify with headlamps. So we're out there and, you know, Dudley's like, all right, we're done for the night. And so now all we had was a five and a half mile. walk uphill out of there. And the whole time I'm walking up, I just was like, this is awesome. There's no reward. I got nothing from this other than this what I'm getting right now,

which is I'm going to walk and just walk out here in the dark, in the woods, uphill for five and a half miles. This is the tail end of whatever, 11 miles that we walked that day. But, you know, like the reward is that. To me, that was the reward. I got a reward from that.

Now, of course, it was a nice. to go back down that morning, find that last piece of blood, and then boom, 100 meters away. There it was. That was freaking awesome. But, you know, like, I think everyone here has a personality. Like, basically I'm saying this. We can't say jiu-jitsu is for everybody because it's not, because sometimes it sucks. And there's a lot of times when I was growing up trying to, you know, train all the time.

You don't want to train. You don't want to go. It's like, oh, I got home from work. I just worked a 13 hour day. It's 7 o'clock at night. Guess what I'm going to go do right now? I'm going to go train. Why?

Because I know I have to. Because that's the way it is. There's no reward to that. The reward would be mint chocolate ship ice cream and watching TV. That's a good reward. No. Negative, not happening. Sometimes the reward is like, the reward is something that you're, that's it.

This suck is a reward. You know what? Tomorrow's going to be a long day too. Oh, yeah. Good. I'm actually pumped to go out. there and grind on those mountains and that's what we're going to do and I'm looking forward to it yeah it's going to be a hopefully it's not a real long day that's what they call it growth mentality

that's how you grow you have to have that mentality the people that are just comfortable with stagnation they never think of things that way you know that video that I've talked about this on my podcast maybe a hundred times I love your video the good video oh 200 at least I fucking love it because I think about that sometimes. I think about that when I'm running and I'm tired. Oh, you're exhausted? Can't breathe? Good. That means you need to get in better shape. Now you know it. You know?

Oh, you're tired? You can't do another set? Good. That means you burnt your body out and now you have time to recover. You know, like all that stuff, like difficult things. You should embrace them. It's just a mindset. You know, if you look at it like, God, I can't believe how hard this is. Well, then you're looking at the negative aspect

of it, but there's always a positive aspect of it. That video should be required viewing for every teenage boy. Like, yeah, you want a bitch and moan about life? This is life, bitch. Good. Yeah. And you're going to feel, I mean, even Cam's saying, who's obviously dedicated his life

to bow hunting. And Andy says, you know, how often do you, or when's the last time you wanted to get up or whatever your question was, he's like, oh, three times a month. Three times a month I want to get rid of this freaking thing that I've dedicated my whole life to. Why? Well, because if you didn't, if it didn't make you feel that way, what good. know what? I never want to give up. I never, I'm watching TV and I'm like, man, this sucks.

No, like that's why it sucks. It sucks because it doesn't suck. Did you get fired? TV sucks because it doesn't suck. Did you get fired up when people in your buds class would quit? Yeah, I mean, I was definitely stoked. It was always cool. It was always cool. Because, I mean, no, I'm just curious because those are the people who make it through. We got yelled at by the time we were in third phase because the bell would ring in our class. is just like, yeah. And the person out of the bell is having the worst day of their life.

I just, I didn't really get it. Like, hey, we're going to be cold and wet and Sandy. Like, didn't anyone tell you what this is going to be about? That's what we were going to do. It's going to suck. Yeah, get some. Like, I was always surprised. It still is surprising that out of every hundred,

these dudes are studs, too. Like, the guys that show up there, their guys, they're in great physical condition. They've been wanting to do this. You don't just like do it on the weekend, say, oh, they're going to be a seal. No. These are guys that have been thinking about it,

and they've read books, and they've done these things, and he show up there, and all of a sudden, 80% of the people quit. It's ridiculous. It's freaking ridiculous. You guys should check out day one. People who have expressed that this is their lifelong goal,

15 guys are gone, day one. It's unbelievable. And by that, I mean, fucking awesome. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of people that just kind of don't really want to be there, I guess, in the end. But why take the time? I don't know, man. I don't know. I don't know what they're thinking. But I didn't think it was, it was, look, I was, I'm not trying to say it's easy, but it's not that big of a deal.

It truly is not that big of a deal. You're wet, you're cold, you're Sandy for, for a while. I think it depends on how you mentally approach it. Got to watch that video. Yeah. My number one tool is a buds instructor is I'd try to get them to think about where they were and how much farther they had to go to meet their goal. I seriously, that's all I would do.

I would sit there and I would try to make, the way I describe it as, you know, like, make your world big or small. And the students, like, I loved augmenting the hell week shift. It's the fifth week of training. Start Sunday at about 8 p.m. ends Friday at 6 p.m. somewhere you get two hours to sleep on Wednesday.

The vast majority of the attrition occurs during this week. And it's 24 hours. first phase guys, which is the first phase of buds, even though it didn't used to be. I was third phase was first, because that makes sense. No, first phase was first. Second phase was third. Third phase was second. Perfect.

That sounds like something the Navy would do. But so you have to augment. And so I was the second phase instructor, but I would go. And I went through my entire buds, 18 months of being a Buds instructor. I'd never yelled once because I hated the Buds instructor that he yelled to me. And I would try to talk quietly so they would have to listen. I would just want, I would start with the OIC. see the officer in charge of the class.

And I would just start talking to me like, this is my favorite shift. I always did the midnight shift. Like I'm going to stay with you until you quit. We have seven days together. I'm never going to lead to your side. You're going to be so cold. You're going to be hungry and tired. And you'd see it when they'd start to think about how long they're going to be there,

the seeds of doubt. And then, of course, you water that and just try to eject them. And you could just go down the line. And either you'd get in their head or you wouldn't. And the ones you could tell that just didn't care. They're like, oh, yeah, I'm just going to base them. basically get through you talking to me right now. I'm going to keep my world small and then go to the next evolution. They're bomb-proof. The advice I got going through buds was don't even think about the 180 days.

Just see the sunrise. Just focus on seeing the sunrise tomorrow. If you want to quit, then do it, you know, the next day. Keep your world small? Explain that. So Hell Week is a week long. So the people that I could get to quit were the ones who would think about it's Monday. I have to make it until Friday. I would get them to focus on how far they were from their goal. The ones who I could not get to quit were the ones who would flip that on their head and say, I don't care how far I am from my goal. I just care about the next step that I have to take. And they would only look right at that step. So they would set short-term goals. And the advice I got going through training was, don't think about it in terms of being a week. Think about it like this. They have to feed you every six hours. Just make it to the

next meal. And that's all I thought about. I was like, I didn't even know what meal it was. well I mean you can kind of tell because the sun was either up or down but that's all I thought about I never once thought about what day it was how much farther I had to go I just like you know what I'm just going to make to the next meal because stuff sucks you're cold and you're like yeah but you know what's gonna be maximum six hours so you just focus on that process and get your mind off of the end state because you're going to get to the end state by focusing on that process just keeping it super super super small yeah do you think that you're indestructible if you do that I could not get the students to quit because you can reduce it even farther. Six hours is too much. Okay, I'm going

to make it through this evolution. I have an instructor standing in front of my face saying he's going to ruin my life. I'm just going to focus on getting him to go say that to somebody else. And then you reset. Do you think that's a learned thing or do you think that's how people are to be able to have the mindset like Jocko said, you know, he's looking forward to tomorrow being a long day? it's my contention that you're born like that and that's just how you are. Both can be taught, I think, personally. Mental toughness to me is a combination of resilience and how you approach your goals mentally. Resilience, people, I think, largely are soft because they don't choose to bend themselves.

They wait until life bends them and they're like, oh my God, I can't take this. They're a victim, yeah. But if you have the mentality of this sucks and this is awesome, I'm going to go bend myself before life. ever does. Yeah. You fall back into that bomb-proof category. If you pair that with being mentally tough, which you can teach people to change how they approach their goals, and it will change the outcome.

It's not going to make like 180-degree shift on their life, but it'll navigate their compass or calibrate it in the right direction. I just, I see people quit, and they always quit. They quit forever. I mean, it's just like anytime it gets tough, they're done. Right, but stop for a second. Think about what you told. me earlier today about Courtney, that Courtney quit her first 100-mile

of race at 60 miles because she couldn't take the pain. And then she realized, oh, I'm okay the next day, even though I quit. Like, it's not an injury. It's just pain. And then she learned how to embrace the pain and live in that pain cave. And she became one of the biggest beasts in all of ultra-marathon run. She's probably the best woman ever. She's a savage. The difference there is she ran 60 miles. She's already tougher than almost everybody.

You know what I mean? So she just took her toughness to another level. But yeah, I don't know. I just, I think about that often, you know, because I don't know too many people have the mindset that Jocko explained and that the good video. I mean, so many people send me good, good,

you know, it's just like, that's like a mantra for, I don't know when you put that out, but I remember playing it at work and like sending it to my boss. And then I see it on my Instagram all the time. So it's like, thank you for the good. It's like been amazing. And I was kind of being a little bit dramatic about quitting, bow hunting and all that.

But I thought of an example. I remember me and my brother were doing the Bigfoot 200, 200-mile race. And we were mile 135. It was two in the morning. I remember looking at him going, how awesome is this? this is what we do I mean I seriously loved it and so that's I don't know

I wonder if I often wonder if that's the makeup of the person from day one or if it can be learned will you always like that I mean I remember when I started school early so I was five in the first grade and I ran

I would go before school five years old by my myself and run a mile every day and ran 30 miles like my first month of like some contest. But so I feel like I've always been about the same. I mean, a five-year-old, a mile was a long way for a five-year-old. And I just go before school by myself. That's very unusual. I think so.

So I just, I don't know. I just, there's definitely people that have that bread into them for sure. I just think, I think you can enhance what people already have by teaching. Yeah, I think there's definitely like a balance because for me, I was never told that when I was young. I think it might have been in there, but it took someone to water it. Like I remember getting to the point where I had,

the varsity football coach knew that, I think he knew that I had the potential to, you know, to lead his team. So he embraced me. as a freshman and just you know he just he was really really hard on me and like pushed me to the point where is this kid going to break and then he and then he did a really good job of of pretty much just tell me like what wasn't acceptable and if I was going to if I was going to give in with this then I might as well not play football for the next three years because if I was

going to break now, then he didn't want me four years from now. And so I had mentors that, I had mentors that, that really pushed me. And were you, had you, had you been a quitter before that? I was a skater. Yeah. So I mean, I, I mean by skating by? No, like skateboarding. Oh, okay. You know, I was never, I was never, I was never really, I was never really a competitor. When I first played football, I was, it was when I was 10, I was 5 to 130 pounds. When I was, my first time is like on varsity, I was 6 to 145 pounds. So, I mean, I went from like the short fat kid that got pushed around a lot, didn't want anything to do with football,

to then all of a sudden meeting someone that saw potential and kind of molded it, so to speak. But it's hard to say like maybe that competitive nature. was always in there, but nothing ever brought it out. Yeah. I mean, do you guys in, I mean, Buds is notoriously one of the hardest training segments you can do or task or challenges or whatever you want to call it. Do you see somebody, have you seen somebody who comes in and they're probably all, did you say Beast when they show up? All of them?

Not all of them, but the kids coming in nowadays are kind of studs right now. Yeah. The pipelines, I think, 14. weeks. And I always tell people this when I tell them about butts, if you can show up for day one, you possess physiologically the ability to graduate. Right, okay. Because you already have done so many

run and swim and push up and, like, you've already done all the tests. Yeah. You have the ability to do it. That's not the muscle that fails. Have you seen people who like were, would quit or you thought there's no way this guy's going to make it and then they shock you? Yes. Yeah, you definitely see that.

And you also see the people you think are like just studs. Yeah. running for the bell. I don't think it's impossible to learn mental toughness. I don't think it is. I think you have to decide. You have to decide that you want to learn mental toughness. You want to be mentally tough.

I think some people are born mentally tough. There's some people, whether it's genetics or whether it's learned behavior from people around them, some people are just inherently mentally tough. Some people are inherently mentally soft, but those people can learn mental toughness. But most won't because it's hard. Yeah, well, because that's what I'm saying. I kind of question that it even is something that you have to learn. Look, man.

It's so crazy. This is going to, like, hey, this is going to be a long, hard, crappy thing that we're about to do. You either say, okay, cool, let's get it on, or you say, oh, this is horrible and I want to go home. Like, what's to be learned there? That's the lesson. Well, there's a level, shut up and do what you're. you're supposed to do, quit whining about it. You know, like, in the teens, it's so hard to catch someone's, like, if I was like,

if it was negative 30 degrees right now and Andy was, didn't, forgot to bring a jacket, and I'd be like, bro, are you cold? He'd be like, nope. No, I'm not. I would freeze to death before I'd ever admit that I was cold because I forgot my jacket. Yeah, it's better just to die. Yeah. It's better just, I think Dudley asked me two or three questions over the last couple days.

You know, something like, you know, uh, How are your legs holding up? Awesome. You know? I'm like, you hot? No? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's right. We're walking. You know those random holes? I'm sure there's some animal that calls. I stepped into a hole. It's like 18 inches deep. It's pitch black. We're walking.

We're two and a half miles into that hump. And I'm walking. And boom, my leg disappears in the hole. He's like, you're all right? I'm like, good to go. People like, I got like a spurt.

Yeah, yeah. I think I would add to what you say. I don't know, like, what that's what, my, I guess my point is, like, what is the class, the class in mental toughness? Oh, you know what the class in mental toughness is? Go to a wrestling practice. Go to a cross-country practice. Go run in 800. Go swim.

Like, do those things where they're going to make you do stuff that sucks. Eventually you realize, oh, I'm going to have to do this anyway, so I might as well just get it done. I think the key to that, though, is the proper application of the stress, because you can overload people who are brand new with almost nothing. I think what we're talking about here. though, some people never experienced difficulty, never experienced physical difficulty. You can get pretty far in life before you ever really experience true physical difficulty. And when you're confronted by it, that discomfort makes a lot of people shut down. And they just want it to end and they want to be in a nice warm place and they want to ring that fucking bell.

And that's what happens. It doesn't mean that they can't be taught to look at things differently. And I think, believe it or not, your video, that good video that we keep bringing up, That goes a long way. And your mentality, the way you're describing it, goes a long way to recalibrating a lot of people's minds. Because they didn't have anybody around them that was explaining things. They weren't exposed to a lot of things that were explaining things in a way. This is why I wrote kids books.

I literally wrote kids books that it says good in it. It says all these things for fifth graders. Because I have kids in my own. And if you go and look at their books that they try and make kids read right now, it's embarrassing. It's embarrassing what they're trying to tell kids. So I wrote kids books so I could give a kid a book and say, here you go, read this book. This will get these. Just plant the seeds.

It doesn't beat them over the head with it. It plants the seeds because we all know like when you're a kid, no one, you know, you're definitely your parents. It's hard to accept input from your parents because you don't think they know anything. Boom. This is a little seeds drop in. So when you say like everybody should watch that, that's where I wrote those books so kids can, oh, look at this book. It seems pretty funny and pretty cool. And next thing you know, the reading that when things are horrible, you need to.

to change your perspective. Did you have discipline when it came to things that you didn't enjoy doing like school work or anything like that? Okay. So when I went to, I went to college as a, I think I was 28 years old. I'd already been in the Navy for 10 years when I got sent to college. And yeah, I hated college. I hated reading.

I hated doing papers and all these like meaningless things. And I would go in there, I would go in there, Joe, I would sit in the front. I would sit in the front desk of my class. I would stage pens and pencils right in front of me. I'd have my no-pacot. I'd be sitting there. I'd be mad-dogging the teacher. I'd be like, oh, you want to come in here?

You think you're going to try and teach me something? I studied your book. I already read the pages. I already read this stuff. They'd say, like, they'd ask a question. I'd be in the front row with my hand up like this. I'm a 28-year-old. There's a bunch of 18-year-olds.

So basically, I hated it. And you know what? I worked totally hard, and I got nothing but A's. And A pluses. I didn't even know they gave A pluses in college. I only did it just to scrap with these people. Just like, let's go. This is what my job is right now?

Cool. Let's bring it on. But did you have that mentality when you were in high school? No. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You learned how to develop that. When I was in high school, no, I think for me when I was in high school, I couldn't connect.

And this is where I try and explain to a lot of kids. The mistake that kids make is they don't connect what they're doing right now with the future. because when you're a kid, the future is Friday night or Saturday night, right? So you don't connect those things. You're just like, hey, what are you doing the future? Oh, I'm going to Bill's house on Saturday night. It's going to be ripping. That's what you're going to do.

So you don't really connect those things. What I loved about joining the military is the military. It's a clean slate when you walk in there and they're like, okay, if you want to get advanced, then fold your underwear like this and fill out this. And I was like, okay, cool, that's what you got to do. that's what you're going to do to, and when I got to the SEAL teams, it was like, this is what you're supposed to do to be a good seal. I'm like, I'm 100% on board to do whatever it is that I'm supposed to be doing to do. So, yeah, I mean, to say that you've proved, or that kind of proves your point, it can be learned.

But again, I just think I had to make the decision. Oh, this is what I have to do to win? Cool. Right, but what did you do in high school? Like when you were 15, 16 years old, what did you do that you dedicated yourself to? I mean, you know, let's hear it. I was in a rut. I was in the rut, you know what I mean?

Like everybody else was. You've seen what these bulls are doing? Yeah. I mean, that was like an eight-year rut or whatever. Right, but that's not difficult, right? That's not challenging. But that's what you're focused on. Right.

But that's, but there was nothing that made you want to quit. Yeah, no, no. There was, I mean, I played soccer and basketball. Yeah. I mean, I just, I was kind of a rebellious kid. I liked hardcore music. We got in a lot of street fights. You know, we didn't know how to fight, which is crazy.

You know, I look back now and you just think, man, I was so stupid. And that's another good thing about Jiu-Jitsu. You know, I have always felt like once I learned how to fight, I felt like I didn't need to fight anymore because, you know, hey, if I really want to kick your ass, I can do it in three seconds. And by the way, I'm not going to do it because I don't feel like getting arrested and whatever. The other million bad things that happened when I get in a street fight, I'm just not going to do that. So, yeah.

So you just wanted a career in the military. So your mental toughness and your drive and your focus was all dependent upon your desire to be successful in the military. Yes. And you found the path. Yes. The path was mental toughness and discipline. So is the key finding? Finding a path.

Finding a path. That's 100% the key in my eyes. Because I was a fucking idiot until I started doing martial arts. Nobody thought I was good at anything. There was the first thing I ever did where I didn't think I was a loser. But I wasn't disciplined.

I was obsessed. That's how I felt with bow hunting. It was the first thing I did where I got positive. I killed a bull in my first year and it was like, that was a big deal. And I'm like, oh shit. For a young man, that's important.

Yes, notoriety, Yes, and respect. Yeah. You know what's weird is I left everything that technically I was good at to do something that I wasn't. To me, I was not good at bow hunting and I was not good at archery. Right, but you were obsessed with it. Well, when I, I think when I realized how bad I was at it, what I was obsessed with was not being that bad at it. So that's why I left, I left everything I was good at so that I could not.

I knew that if there was 10 things I was good at, I knew deep down that I really sucked at this because it was, I had identified it. Right, but more importantly, it was something that was interesting to you. Yeah, I was going to say, just because you sucked at it. It was a path.

You probably suck at math, too, but that's not something you're running out to write textbooks about. Right. Right? When I was leaving fighting and becoming a comedian, I was fucking terrible at comedy. I mean, it was terrible.

I was teaching Taekwondo at Boston University. It was a four-time state champion and won the U.S. Open. I was really good at it. It was the only thing that was ever really good at in my life. I was traveling around the country, fighting in tournaments all through high school and all through up until I was 22 years old. It was all I was good at. And it was my whole identity as a person was that I was this martial arts guy.

And then all of a sudden I'm like getting into comedy. And I'm like, okay, this is my, this is what I can do this, but I've got to figure out how to do this, but I can't figure out how to do this while I'm doing this other thing. So I got so much pushback on quitting the thing that I'm really good at because I found this thing that I was kind of obsessed with weirdly. I can agree with that. That was common. I think that's the key with people is finding something you're obsessed with, whether it's a career in the military, whether it's archery, whether it's bo-hunting, finding something that's hard to do because through that you develop your human potential.

Through finding a difficult thing slowly, incrementally, through discipline and hard work and focus, you get better at it. And you know what? We talked about a little bit today. That's going against what society is doing these days. And I know Tim Kennedy talked about it on your podcast about how I wanted to get your guys's feelings on the kids coming in. Is this a soft generation? Are we having a hard time filling the slots for? I had this conversation with Jocko two days ago, remember?

Because Tim said, I think he alluded to that they're having a hard time finding enough guys for, the elite teams. They're lined up at the teams to go on the teams. And you know, I hear a lot about this, like the kids being soft and all that. But, man, I see the kids, like, I got a 16-year-old son, him and his little friends that he's hanging out with,

they'll get it on at any point. I mean, they're ready to scrap. Yeah, but they grew up with fucking joccoa dad. They trained. They trained hard. You're going to be gay. And go all the way the other way. Yeah. And be a ballet dancer? You're going to be a fucking savage.

You don't have any other options. It's binary. It's one or zero. I don't know if you made, I don't know. I don't know if I've made mistakes, but I'd be, you have a boy and I have, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I've made all kinds of mistakes. Yeah.

I've made mistakes that I can't talk about because I'll get rolled up by child services. Well, I've wondered. I've done some things of myself. I wondered if I, if I pushed him, if I was too hard. Oh, oh. Oh, oh. Oh, bird. about them beat.

I'm going to tell you right now, all right? We're talking about, like, when my son was, he was either, I think he was seven years old. I'm hesitating right now. Hey, it's just, we're friends here. Listen, listen. We're not going to tell anybody about this. If you're hesitating, we started this podcast up with everybody likes killing people, right? When you were a little kid, did you want to get your guns together and go out and kill?

Yeah, let's... Did that sound weird, right? No. It did. Like, cowboys and Indians. Yeah, exactly. It's not fucking flowers and gardeners. No.

And we were right? What are you playing? What are you playing? Every piece of wood or stick I found, I turned into a machine gun. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Was that a story you're going to tell?

No, that wasn't the story I was going to tell. By when you pause, I think, as a friend, I want to step in and fucking hit the e-break. I'm the same. One thing I wanted to say, like, backing up 10 minutes. I think everyone in this room, as we've been groomed into kind of who we are as people,

you know, when our guide, Jocko and I just came out of a long morning and our guide was driving up and he said, Cam's got a bull down. And he knew that at 12, we had to be up at the summer camp because there were people there that were going to meet So he's like, it's 1055, Cam's got a bull down. I can drop you guys off where you're going to go or,

and Jocko really didn't even know what he was referring to because he's, you know, he's day one and a half of bow hunting. So he's like, I can just drop you guys off, but then I'm going to need to go in to help and I just, I'm like, no, we're all going. And then, you know, I kind of look back and I'm like, we're going to pack out a bull. I think as you green.

the stuff that we're talking about. If someone offers you a challenge in life, you're like, yeah, I'm up for that. Yeah. Well, that was awesome to see you guys. I think we heard on the radio or maybe, yeah, a report that you guys were coming to help. And it was just like, that was so awesome. I mean, it wasn't surprising, but it was awesome. First of all, I never thought Jocko would be helping pack out one of my bowls.

So that was kind of cool. I was just like, man, this is pretty badass. I felt like I won a little mini lottery there. But, yeah, I mean, it's, I think that's, I don't know, I saw somebody post it on my Instagram. I don't know when it was. I had a picture of maybe us or maybe with Scott Eastwood, something like that. But somebody said, why do you hang out with all the cool people or something like that? But I think part of it is I only associate with high achievers.

I was like, I don't have, I'm not interested in hearing why somebody can't be something or do something or achieve. I don't, I don't, I don't want to hear that. There's plenty of that. I want to hear, I want to hang out with people who are going to make me better. And each one of you make me better in some way. And that's, and so then it's kind of weird because then that facilitates more growth and hanging out with more cool people. And like the people who bitch about the opportunities we might have or this,

they hang out with those type of people. And so it's, I mean, it's, I don't know. It's awkward for me. these guys thank us because I want to thank them 10 times more. You know. Who? These three. Oh, yeah.

I know. You know, when they're like, thank you, I'm, I'm like, no, no, no. We're turning this around. Yeah, no. Andy's, Andy, Andy's one of, you know, he's one of my best friends. I talk to him all the time. I talk to Joe all the time, and I've told him, I'm like, man, you've done so much for me. And obviously, like, if I'm going to call Joe, there's no way I'm going to bitch about

something. Right. If I call Andy, yeah, I can bitch about something to Andy. I was going to say, where we're going with this? Yeah. If I call Andy and tell my God,

like, hey man, I got the iPhone 11. He's like, yeah, I got the plus. And mine was delivered one minute before yours. That happens. You know, if I call Jocko, honestly, with you, I call you with like, very specific things of this is what you should do. and what I really appreciate about you too is if you contact me, there's a purpose.

And then if I contact you, and that goes for, honestly, that goes for everybody in here. You know, you and I communicate randomly, but it's, there's like a purpose for it, right? And honestly, I appreciate that about people because we all know that we're all hustling in multiple facets. and we all know that our time, like our time window is small. I can't reply to everyone that talks to me all day, but I really, I'm definitely going to reply to, you know, if anyone in here text me, I'm definitely going to reply because I know there was like a reason before it,

and I know that you set aside time and you're 100% focus on something, and you put that on a pause to like reach out. And, yeah, that's good. Yeah, the only point I wanted to make, I guess, for people listening, because I know other people will listen to this outside our circle, so to speak, is that, man, surround yourself with people you want to be like, I guess. Yes.

You know, and it's, it's, that's, it sounds so simple. That's all there is to it. And don't tolerate people that are going to bring you down. No. Don't, don't tolerate anchors. Isn't that simple? How many times have we heard that? But, I mean, this is, I'm perfect to.

proof because I don't deserve to, I told, I've said this, I don't deserve to be here. I think at some point, somebody's down here, Tom probably is going to figure out, how the hell has this guy been here for nine years? Get the, they're going to figure it out. And I'm going to be like, I killed nine bulls here. So I guess I won, but I don't deserve to be here. So I've come from this, you know, this, where, I don't know how I got here. but it's just been because of people like you.

Well, you got here from hard work, and then that attracted other people who also work hard, who appreciated that you work hard. If you go through life, you cultivate a bunch of bad motherfuckers in your life that also get after it. And if you do that, then you're empowered by your friends. I think so, yeah.

And you're empowered. The beautiful thing about today is they don't even have to be your friends. They could just be people that you listen to on a podcast like this where they feel like they're your friends because you hear them talk all. the time. And they're in your ear when you're at the gym. They're in your ear when you're in your car and you can get positive impact in your life without being the physical presence of these people. And that's a very, very unique thing that I know none of us had when we were kids. I certainly

didn't have it. I had to find people. And the people that I found was through martial arts, people that sought out fighting, which everybody's scared of. These guys sought it out. And back then there was no money in martial arts. I mean, you could, teach, I made money teaching, but I made enough money to eat. You know, there was no career, like, you were fighting because it was hard to do. And then you were impressed with all these people that were really good at it. And so you admired them so much, you wanted to be like them. And so you realized, well, how did they get that way? For me, they were there every day. I would go to the gym, they were there before me. They were, they were putting in more rounds than anybody.

They were drilling. They were in the mirror. They were shadow boxing. They were stretching. They were doing shit everybody didn't want to do they were hitting the weights they were the ones who were putting in the work and then i wanted to be like that guy so i developed the same sort of traits that they had and i did it because i was a kid and like these are the people that they meant something in my life like they were stronger than people i knew mentally they they were they were seeking difficult tasks they were embracing them they were looking forward to it They were getting excited by hard, hard challenges. And if you can find those people in your life, no matter what the discipline is, find people that gravitate towards challenges,

whether it's ultramarathon running or whether it's being a seal or what, there's things in life that are really fucking hard to do. And through those, you find out who you are. You know what I think is a really good takeaway for people from what you just said? even people like us that, you know, we push continually. I know all you guys do. I feel like I do with, you know, with what we have as for knock on and Sharon and I push really hard. But everyone needs to realize there are days where it's not easy to do that grind.

And sometimes you, you know, I've watched the good video, you know, sometimes, you know, sometimes, Sometimes I like listen to something Joe did for on it. And I'm like, you know what? That's all I needed to realize, don't be a crybaby today. You know, yeah, it kind of does suck right now. I've done this, you know, it's been a grind. But, you know, I think you talk about all kinds of stuff between, you know, different guests that you've had on the podcast where you're like, dude, I'll listen to your stuff. It fires me up, you know.

You talked about that time where when you were doing the sober eye. October, and you freaking set the fire alarms off in your house because of, like, how much steam and sweat were in your room? And you said you watched that John Wick fight scene, how many times? At least 50. 50 times in a row. The scene where he breaks into the Russian bathhouse and kills everybody, I just kept rewinding it and watching it over and over again while I was on an elliptical machine. Drinking jugs of water filled with Himalayan salt and electrolytes because I was sweating so much, it was like someone poured buckets of water. Just because I was,

I didn't want my fat friend to win a fitness challenge. And he was never going to win anyway, but it didn't matter. It was like I was going to set an impossible pace that was going to give him a heart attack. It was so ridiculous. But when the alarm went off, that's when I knew something was really wrong. But you had the drive, but even if you have the horsepower, like, you know, our buddy Brock over here, when I first met Brock and went to his place, we were driving to his house. and I was telling him how all I've really ever wanted was a muscle car and I've never had one. And so I was talking to my dealership about buying a Hellcat and I've been talking about it for a long time.

So we walk into the dealership because Sharon had like a warning light going off on her Jeep. So we walk in and I'd been talking with the salesman about getting one and we walk in. He's like, bro, I found your car. Here it is. And she goes, what car? And he's like a hellcat. And she goes, what's that? And he points up to this huge sticker they have on the wall.

And it's like the most hideous color. And it's like the worst picture. She just looked at me. She's like, you're not getting that. You're just going to turn into a greaser. And I'm like, what? And she goes, you look so, she goes, that's a midlife crisis. No doubt.

And so Sharon has never really told me no about anything. And because she did, I'm like, All right. Never brought it up again until I met, you know, Brock. And I'm like, man, you know, I really wanted this Hellcat, but Sharon wasn't about it. Listen, Sharon's from England. I had a muscle car when I was 17. I never did. I had a Mazda B-2000. I've had a Mazda B-2000. I've got five of them right now. I fucking live for those things. I had a Mazda B-2,000. So I'm telling Brock about this story as we're driving to us. house and I said, I'm like, these hellcats are really cool. They got like 700 horse and all this stuff. And he's just like, yeah, it sounds really cool. Humble is a pie. We get to his house.

I have a drink. He is Diet Coke. Meet his family. We're hanging out. We eat. And then all of sudden, Brock goes, hey, you want to come out to the garage? I walk out to the garage. I walk out to the garage, he's got a brand new demon sitting in there and I go, you got a freaking demon and you didn't tell me and he's... Well, a demon is the more extreme version of the hellcap for people. But like, he could... Yeah, 850 instead of 7.007. He could have easily stopped me at my first sentence and been like, I got a demon at home.

Well, he knew he was going to have the big reveal. The guy's sense of drama. He did. He freaking played that well. He let it out, you know, he left it out, but, you know, he left it out. but, you know, you coming in, Brock? Sure. Come on in.

Oh, yes. Oh, this is cool. Yeah, coming in for the big win. Yeah, you were on the cleared hot podcast, dude, and Alberta, now you come with us to Utah. Well, the whole Hellcat thing is I love Hellcats, too. Oh. You wanted the Hellcat, so I don't, I was badass.

I didn't, I'm just, I don't want to be considered a guy that. One-ups your first. friend? No, absolutely not. So obviously, how do you get along with Andy? It's cool. We get along well. Yeah. Because if I told Andy I wanted a Hellcat, he'd been like, I already got a demon and you can't beat it. That's what he would have said. All you have to say is, I just got my tuned. So what's up, bitch? But I'm not actually going to do it. I'm just saying that to mess with you. Yeah. I just feel like people that get after it, though, everybody does need a push, right? I mean, everybody needs a push at some point. Do you? Yeah. I mean,

you know, again, all this stuff is just like kind of, hey, I got a good idea. Get up and do what you're supposed to do. Go get after it. I mean, you know, hang out with cool people, work out hard. Pause. Yeah. Pause. Okay, Jocko, pause. Let's move into a new subject. Takeaway. If there's, tell me three things. that you would do differently about this hunt? About this hunt? Or let's just say about bow hunting because this was your first bow hunt.

First of all, he would have pulled up in a hellcat. Yeah, pulled up in a hellcat or a demon. You know, there's so many little lessons learned along the way. I'm looking forward to just getting things dialed in. Were there any things that you came here where you felt like you were ill prepared? Um Anything I felt I was ill prepared

There's a ton of things that I know I need to prepare more What are those? You know, need to shoot more, need to Shoot more and shoot more I mean, you just need to keep shooting the repetitions. You know, the cool thing is like the field stuff is stuff that like Andy and I grew up doing. I mean, you know, like, in fact,

there's some things where I was like, wait, shouldn't we have a hand signal for this? Like when we were tracking blood, like there was hand signals that you and me definitely should have established of like, you know, here's last blood. You hold here. I was doing it. You just didn't know what it was. Yeah. Well, no, I saw you pointing at the ground, you know, I was picking up on it.

Yeah. But like we didn't pre-brief them. You know, so just little things I got. Here's another one. When you split up, like if you're on a operation of some kind and you split up, you need to have a plan of like, okay, if I don't come back, what are you going to do? So like today, I'm like, hey, where you're going? And you're like, I'm going to go up here and look. And I was like, okay, what do you want me to do?

And you're like, stay here with last butt. I said, okay, cool. Because that just tells you, hey, no matter what goes on, if two hours later, you go, I forgot Jocko and you were out pursuing some bull somewhere, you know where you're going to know where I'm going to be, right? So little things like that that is kind of, uh, it's kind of just, yeah, the go TWA, the go TWA, which is like a little an acronym that we used for in the military. So there's a bunch of little things like that. What does it stand for?

Where you're going, others you're taking with you, the time, what to do if I don't return in actions upon enemy contact. Actions on enemy contact was the last one. So that would be like, hey, if you find a bull, what are you going to do? Well, I'm going to go, I'm going to pursue it, and then once I put it down, I'll come back here, or I'll meet you at the other bull that we just hit. So there's just like little things like that.

Which are valuable, especially out there. Yeah, they're very valuable. I mean, three out of four people probably would not have accurately got back to the vehicle. Yeah, no. Correct. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Oh, I play a game with Caleb every time we go out. It's a fun game.

Don't play it with him. No, I say, I say, Caleb, which direction is the car in point? He'll be like, oh, it's over there. I'm like, you're incorrect. So the car's actually right there in light of sight. Yeah, that's 100 degrees. We were at a shot show, and Andy sneaks up behind me and taps me in the show. He goes, you're a terrible situational awareness.

I go, we're at a fucking trade show. Jesus Christ, dude. We're not in the field. That doesn't mean you can't. Have low situational awareness. You need to learn when to relax. You know what small little thing you did today that I really appreciated? I forgot that I thought.

Dude, I told you to go on my backpack to get something out. And when you got it out and you, like, had it situated and I knew it was buttoned down, you tapped me on the shoulder twice. No, actually, I gave you a squeeze. Yeah, that's right. You squeeze on the back of my arm. A squeeze in the teams is like, you're good to go. And for me, as soon as you did it, I'm like, okay, I know what he's telling me. I'm thinking, why don't we do that more often?

Yeah. It was so simple, but it was like 100% confirmation. Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of little things like that. Like, when we do this all the time, like we'll come up with those protocols and standard operating procedures that it smiles. Yeah, honestly, I'd like to.

Sorry, bro. When you're getting into this now, you know, first hunting trip, one and a half days into bow hunting, are you, how excited are you about this, the fact that there's so much to learn because the thing about you hang out with a guy like Dudley you realize like oh there's fucking layers to this

there's so many levels to this yeah I mean for me just like jujitsu like there's a billion things to learn to jih Tutsu but there's also here's the fundamentals here's the fundamental principles that function through all

all modes of jih Tutsu same thing with like tactics there's fundamentals of tactics that do not change and so there's cool little things that branch off of them. But so I will continue to focus on the fundamentals of Jiu-Jitsu. I continue to focus on the fundamentals of tactics. I'll continue to focus on the fundamentals of this, you know,

which it's cool. What I like about it is, like I said earlier, it's a mission. And when you have a mission, you get to focus on that mission and you have some goal that you're going to do. You don't want to come up here and not be ready. You don't want to come up here and not be in good physical condition. Do not want that. You do not want that.

You want to be ready to rock and roll. And so, you know, that's the kind of thing when Dudley's asking me, like, don't you ever need a push? Hey, here's an example. When it's a Sunday and I get home from a long flight or something and, okay, what am I going to do? Do I need a little push? Yeah, when I know I'm going to be here and I know I might be staring down my sights and have to take a tough shot, I got to go out and get 20, 20 arrows, man. It's going to take me not that long.

But, like, you know, take me 50 minutes. Because that's what I told you. I'm like, don't make it big. Just give me, I think I said, give me 20 a day. Give me 20 a day. And usually I now get 20 to 40, but that's a push, right? The push, this is the push. Getting those numbers in every day is giant.

Yeah. I mean. Momentum. Yeah, if it's only five. Five hours a day, it's just giant. Just get them in. Get them in. You know, put a block target behind your garage,

shoot five hours into it with correct form. And you're 100% better off. if you didn't do it. So that's my takeaways. Keep training. Keep getting after it. Do you have any, Andy? I just keep trying to manage my mistakes

and learn from the past. Like, if that bowl actually would have walked out, the only time I have drawn back, I saw the tips and I drew back super early and was just holding for longer than I felt comfortable, only because I have done the opposite of that. Yeah. Where I'm like, hey, Bull, would you mind standing there for a second

while we make eye contact and I pull this bow back. And they go, sir, no, you can go fuck yourself and they run off. It sounds like a legitimate gamble. Like what you did was based off experience. So, yeah. And that's, it kind of goes back to what we said. As much as you want to prepare for bow hunting, you're not going to prepare for something that you've never encountered.

I just try to be ready. Like, so far this week, my guide, Joe hasn't said, hey, knock an arrow, because I'm starting to be able to recognize when we're getting to a point where I might need it. So I'm trying to be ready to go. And it's already almost played itself out. Well, Andy, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but for you, how exciting was it for you when you were in Alberta

and you spot and stalked that mule deer 100% on your own? That was pretty awesome. I actually just kept telling myself, oh, just any second now, my plan's going to fall apart any moment now. I was super happy for you. I was stoked, too, because I'm not. He's always happy when you can kill something, but, you know, when you send me a picture, when you're like, dude, I did this 100% of my own.

I was like, damn, that's a real accomplishment. That's a twitchy-ass mule deer. Yep. You know, and they're like, you know, amongst the smart, especially an older one like what you got. That's a smart ass animal that's dodging wolves up there and mountain lions and bears and everything else. It was all because of the mistakes I had made before, though. Like at first I had my rain gear on. I'm like, oh, no, this is too loud.

I've got to take this off. and then I wasn't they were farther out into the field. I'm like, oh, I've done this one before too. I need to get farther out where they're going to be, so they're going to pass closer. And I got to a spot, and I was like, you know what? This is where I have seen them pass in my limited experience,

and they walked by it sub 20 yards. And I let the first one pass and just drew back on a completely open pathway. Like, where is it going to be? And the next thing, I see a little head peeking out. And as he took a step in my head, I'm just like, you're just so absolutely dead. And just blasted. Andy's internal dialogue during this stuff is awesome.

Yeah. Oh, it was maybe 15 yards. And then I had other arrows in Mike Wiver, so I had shot some of those too. Here we go. I knew it was coming eventually. What? You've said several times,

you're like, I can never repay you for what you've taught me. Oh, it's insane. When you did that, you 100% like you paid and double. Because that's like when your kids got training wheels, training wheels, and you take him off and you're like, he could mess himself up. But then all of a sudden, you freaking do it. And you're like, now I know how to ride a bike. That is 100% payback.

You know, for someone that's like put time into like holding your seat, making sure you're going. They know you can do it on your own because they're not even really. It's like when you taught me on a skydive. Yeah. The first few times you were definitely on, and I knew that you were holding on me, but then further on in that progression, I didn't realize that you would let go. I kind of still thought that you were in control of what I was doing.

I actually like go by accident on your third jump. It was awesome. So good job. Like third jump, you just let go? No, you stepped on my foot when you went out of the airplane. So I was like, oh, this is about to get extremely wild. So I just let go of you and just caught you later. Because I've done that before where I held on, and then you start with the whirling gig and then the centrifugal force builds, and then people, it's not good.

It's not good. I love it. You got anything, Cam? Want to hand off? You good? Yeah. What do you think, Joe? This is awesome.

You know, it's awesome for people listening. It's awesome for me. I'm honored to know all you guys, for real, legitimately. It means the world to me. No doubt. It helps me tremendously. To have really exceptional people in your life, I think, is one of the greatest gifts. It is.

There's no doubt about it. I've said this to you several times. I've said the older I've get, I start to realize that the circle of friends that I have around me can be smaller, but there's way more value to, like, what I feel out of that. I feel like you can narrow it down. Like as you essentially trim, you know, I guess I've got good friends that aren't necessarily great friends, so I don't want to say trim the fat, but I am saying it. Call the herd.

Yeah, I mean, I think. Cut the bitches loose. You just realize there's people around you to where when you're surrounded by people that are doing the same things that you're doing, your natural competitive desire is not to be doing less than what people around you that are busting it are doing. And so you just realize that you're, like, fulfilling a very good life because you're, you know, you're not leaving anything on the table because, you know, you're pushing because you know everyone around you is pushing. You don't want to be the weak link in the chain.

That's just how it goes. Yeah. And that's the bar. So that's the bar for you. And like I said, the beautiful thing about podcasts and the Internet in general is that people are getting exposed to these ideas and these kind of. the conversations that maybe don't have anybody like that in their life. Yeah.

You do now. You do now. You do now. All right, let's do a fist bump in the middle. Go team. And Brock. Talking about being gay. Thank you again to True Believer for sponsoring this episode of the podcast.

Again, this is the latest audiobook in the best-selling author, Jack Carr's Terminal List series. And the audio edition of True Believer is available wherever audio. books are sold. So make sure you go check that out and support Jack Carr. That is it, everybody. That is all I have for this week. I hope you enjoyed that podcast because I certainly enjoyed creating that. I think we all did sitting there around a very small group of people in a very small and intimate setting and just going to town, talking about life. What else? If you want to do me a favor, go on to iTunes and find the Clear Hot podcast and give me a rating on that thing if you want. one star, no stars, five stars, and then write a review. Hey, Andy, you suck and so does your podcast.

That's cool. Put that up there if that's what you'd think. You think the podcast is good, write whatever you want to do. And then the only additional step you could take would be tell somebody else about it. That I think would be the biggest benefit for me personally, helping me grow the podcast. And if you want to physically fly the flag, clearedhotpodcast.com, click on the shop tab up top. And what you'll find is some pretty simple cleared hot apparel that you'll can wear around. I wear it around. Sometimes people ask me what it is. And I tell them, it's a podcast. It's pretty good. I think it's pretty good. But again, you can say whatever you want. And that is all I have for this week.