Cleared Hot - Powered By BRCC - Episode 134 - Samantha Francine

Episode Date: June 29, 2020

Samantha Francine is an activist, a woman of color, and is dedicated to education and bringing about change. On June 3rd she was participating in a Black Lives Matter protest in the resort town of Whitefish, Montana when she was approached by Jay Snowden, a visibly irritated and irate man shouting obscenities and ripping signs out of protestors hands. At that moment she chose to do what I hope we all would have the courage to do, she stood her ground and stared the man down. The interaction between Samantha and Snowden and his subsequent behavior was captured on video, and the still picture of Samantha staring into his eyes quickly went viral, receiving national media attention.

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So for total human optimization, onet.com slash hot. My guest today is Samantha Francine, who came to my attention through a mutual acquaintance, Thomas Nybo. So we talk about him a little bit in the podcast, so we'll leave that explanation for that. But Samantha is actually from where I currently live, or the Flathead Valley. She rose to national prominence due to a picture being captured at a Black Lives Matter protest in Whitefish, Montana, which is the northern end of the Flathead Valley. and Thomas found this picture and sent it to me and said, here's somebody who could be, should be a very important and interesting person to have a conversation with. Thomas is a smart man.

I immediately said that I agreed and he connected us and I can't tell you how glad that I am that he did. Samantha is awesome. She is obviously, like I said, a woman. She's an activist. She's a woman of color. She grew up in this rural town, and now she is shifting her focus towards educating and making change. Her opinion to me is incredibly important. And for me, in times like now that all of us are either watching or directly participating in as we see our country, hopefully change course and change direction towards something that is better, I think one of the most important things that you can do is sit down.

ask questions, and most importantly, listen. So I'm so incredibly grateful that this woman lives near where I live and that she is doing the things that she is doing. And now I'm going to shut up and let Samantha talk for herself. Episode 134 with Samantha Francine. Enjoy. I'm looking at danger close now. How do you know Mr. Nibo? I don't.

Okay. Then he actually just. took another step up in my level of respect. I've met him one time in, where were we? We were in Hong Kong. I met him for breakfast at a buffet at the Marriott and Hong Kong through a mutual friend. Okay. And he's been amazing.

Yeah. And he was just like, Andy, you have to talk to this woman. Which is crazy because no, he, he's like in the Congo right now and he just saw my store. Studying COVID-19 stuff. Yeah. And he saw my store. reached out to me, we talked a little bit, and the next thing I know, he's like,

I've talked to this person, this person, you're going to meet this person. I was like, okay, thank you. Why me, but love it. You know, I mean, this has been so surreal. Yeah, I'm trying to think about the best place. Instead, I know we have, to me, the picture, which I'll put up in YouTube,

that picture, to me, captures everything that is wrong with this country. and everything that is right with it. Yeah. So we got to get to that, though. So tell me about Sammy. You got to, where are you from? Tell me tell the tale.

Yes, a 27-year-old African-American woman. No, my family moved out here when I was two. Okay. I grew up in the Whitefish community. Where did you come before that? I was born in L.A. Okay. But my dad was a group in the movie industry,

and he broke us back and ended up being disabled technically. and he always knew he wanted to raise his kids here, so it was time. And so he moved us out here. My mother came with, but she left when I was four. It hasn't been in the picture ever since. So it was just my Irish father with three little black babies in the early 90s. In Whitefish, Montana.

Whitefish Montana. Would you say that it's safe to say that the population ratio here skews more towards the Caucasian side of the house? It's like 90%. I think it's higher. Is it? I think it's mid-90s. Okay.

Okay. So, yeah, and I say that because it was, I would imagine the optic with which you grew up. Yeah. Was, I would know how to describe it. I mean, how would you describe it? I mean, there was no one that looked like me. Yeah. There was no people of color.

You know, we were the only ones in our classes. People of color would come. We would, they'd be, they'd join the community for a minute, but then they were gone, you know. Were they coming in seasonally, you mean? Or like, they just didn't want to stay? They didn't stay. I had a girl that was in my sixth grade class, and she was there for a couple weeks,

and her family took her out and they left, you know. They didn't, you think they just didn't like the area? It's hard not to like the area. Yeah, I phrased that improperly. Were they more they didn't like the environment perhaps would be, okay. It was hard being a person of color, even as a child. I mean, my dad constantly was reminding us, you know, that we needed to be proud of ourselves,

even if people around us weren't, or if people didn't like us, you know, we had, we had each other. Yeah. I was reading, so Thomas forwarded me two articles. Both of them are awesome, and I'll put the link in the podcast notes too. But it says you started, in your own words, and I'll let you explain it, but you kind of started experiencing or noticing the difference pretty early on as you were growing through or going into your adulthood.

Yeah, I mean, we, so my dad was in, we went to church. And so we had the church community, and then we had kind of, the outside of the church community, the school stuff and things like that. But like the first time I remember being called the N-word and having to go home and ask what that was specifically, I was seven. A child in my class had said that their parents called me this. And so I went home and was like, Dad, what is this? And he, you know. That's a tough conversation.

Yeah, for a seven-year-old. Like, how do you explain that to a seven-year-old? And so that was like the beginning of that. I, you know, I had boys my whole life tell me I wasn't as pretty as, you know, white girls. I eventually started to like chemically straighten my hair and I had bouts of like eating disorders because I just, I wasn't, I didn't look like anybody else and I didn't feel understood and I just wanted, I wanted to be. I wanted to fit in and I wanted to be a part and I, you know, we were excluded from birthday parties and events and certain things. People, you know, didn't want us around. And that was hard.

And it didn't make sense, especially, you know, such a young age. Did your brothers have the same experience? I'm curious if there was a difference and how it expressed in the difficulty between male and female. Yes, they did. Same thing. After all this kind of started happening, I hadn't talked to my older brother in two and a half years. So this kind of brought up. I have a sister that we'll call it a sign wave.

Yeah. We've had a few years in our life where it was like, hmm, fuck you. No, no, fuck you. Yeah, totally. Totally. So we're all very strong-handed. So it's like, I'm right and you wrong. Shut the fuck up.

So my opinion is the only one that matters. I'm 100%. sure that I'm correct and you are not. Yes, exactly. Okay, so families are families. I get it. Family family. So, but with all of this, I actually got back in touch with my brothers and just kind of hearing their similar experiences, stuff that I knew, but I didn't know the depths of. I mean, my older brother not being able to like go to certain girls' houses to meet their parents, because they were like absolutely not, things like that, you know. And my little brother, who is very athletic, you know, everyone liked him when it came to the sports world. And they wanted

him to do all the sports, but outside of that, he didn't have a lot of good support as friends. Yeah, they probably were willing to stand behind him on the performance aspect. Fuck. So I was reading one of the articles that you went to Hawaii and it kind of changed the way maybe you thought about yourself, like a transformation and I'll let you explain it. Yeah, no. Hawaii was amazing. I still have so many friends I consider family. but I got off the plane and there was just like people of color. And I was like, and I traveled a little bit with my family in my church when I was younger,

but I was like on my own and I didn't stand out. You know, people looked like me. People had bodies like mine. And, you know, I didn't feel so alone. And so, yeah, that was kind of the beginning of that for me. And then I had friends that were very local and hearing about their experiences. And obviously they have, you know, it's Hawaii. white people, their experiences with that.

So I started to be like, wow, I can have these conversations with people about my experiences with white people and how they made me feel. So it was like the first time in my life outside of my father that I finally felt like I had allies and people who were supporting me and who I really was. It's crazy, right? If you never leave where you're from, you can think it's the center of the universe and then you start expanding your traveling and you see other things and you see other people. it's, for me it was huge.

One of the biggest things for me in my life was being able to travel all over the world. Yeah. And I come back and it's like, okay. Slightly different optic. Slightly? I mean. Slightly for sure. Yeah.

You know, I've heard some gnarly stuff about Hawaii. Yeah. I guess the polite word would be there. Some people, they're very territorial. Very. Yeah, absolutely. I mean. I mean, I don't know the correct word for it.

I mean, they're obviously, it sucks. They're making, you know, they're making choices. and decisions based off of where you're from or the color. I mean, it sucks. Yeah. And so your return from that, it was saying, you know, when I was reading the article, is it, you know, instead of going the route of trying to,

I don't know if the term is assimilate or look more like the group that you grew up around, you're like, screw it. Yeah. I'm going to be my own woman. Yeah. So I was kind of like, I was feeling myself in Hawaii. And then I moved to California. Where?

I was living in Tahoe, which. Is that really California? Tahoe, it was a. On the long side of the lake in Tahoe, you're in Nevada, right? Yeah, Reno. Yeah, that's where the casinos are. You can literally tell where the, because it's like, there's no sign that says, welcome to Nevada.

It's just like, Harris. Yeah, seriously, that's where we like did all of our grocery shopping and like weekends away. So it was still the same thing. There was people, I mean, we were seeing, like, there was so much music being brought in up there. And it is kind of a resort town because they have, so there's just people from all over the world always around.

And so, again, I still felt like supported. I didn't feel, and obviously California is much more open-minded. So I just, I still felt like I was able to kind of experience myself. And then, you know, I got out of a relationship and I decided to move back to Montana. And it was like even just getting off the plane and getting to downtown Whitefish to see my friends, I just immediately was like, ooh, back into my shell. Yeah. Everything.

It just, it felt like nothing had changed. I, you know, from the time I got from the airport, to downtown whitefish. I had already had looks and stuff like that. And I was sitting in the bar with my friends, you know, people kind of watching to see, you know, what I was doing. And it was just like, wow, I forgot how this feels. You know, when I was researching bringing my family up, so we had a, we had a bizarre way

that we got here. So July 1st will be three years. So I've lived, I haven't lived in Montana long, even though I lived in Missoula for a few years when I was younger. Okay. And remember nothing other than getting in trouble for throwing snowballs at cars, which seems reasonable to me. Now that I own a car, I'd be like, that's not reasonable.

I'm on the other side of that coin. We all grow and change. Yeah. But then the rest of it was in Santa Cruz, California, which is a very liberal town. And I say that without judgment. I really don't care what people's politics are unless they start getting fringing a little crazy and pushy. It's like, do you, do your thing.

Right. And then we were living in San Diego. and we bought a house down by about halfway down Flathead Lake. Okay. And it was a VRBO. And we came up and my ex-wife was born and raised in Great Falls. Okay. So she, and I don't know, well, you know, yeah, you're pretty much from Montana.

Yeah. You talk to people who are from Montana and they're like, I'm going back there. There's nothing. It's like a gravitational pole. It is. I mean, there's just, I mean, you can travel around this state forever and still be in the state. And there's so much to see and there's so much beauty. But just don't go east of the mountains right over here.

I say that I would describe, sorry, Montanans, but I would describe the beauty of Montana goes like this when you get east. It's just different. But yes, the website. By different, you mean flat. And by flat, I mean there's no difference for hundreds of miles and you're going to gain three. I mean, it's basically when you go east of these mountains, you're in like Oklahoma. And I have nothing bad to say about Oklahoma.

I'm just saying the topography changes. Most of the pictures you see of. Montana are not traditionally from, let's say, the eastern portion, the northeastern. Fair enough. Fair enough. But. So we were looking at moving up here and we bought the house as a VRBO and we came up and it was awesome. My kids were outside and just loving it. So we made the decision to move up. And when we got up here, I was just Googling like the Calispell area. And I don't know how I got onto it. But I started seeing a lot of hints at white supremacy issues in the valley.

Because, yeah, so you, 2017? 1617. Yeah, that was when, it was 2017. That was on all the Nazi marches. So that's, that's what I, I stumbled across and I, and we had traveled to whitefish a little bit.

And I was reading these articles. I'm like, I don't understand, I guess I just didn't realize that it had its hooks as deeply in this area. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, unfortunately, like, even the mayor of Calaispell put out a statement in the daily interlake about how, you know, racism is just not a problem here. That's a broad statement for one individual to make about an entire area.

Yeah. And then, you know, the same day, the mayor of Missoula was like, I stand with you guys. How can I help? You know, but this valley alone, it is a bubble. Oh, for sure. In many ways, actually. Yeah, totally. Even from just the weather that gets trapped in here.

Totally. Seriously. It's legitimately a bubble in so much. many ways. Yeah. So, I mean, I've experienced it my whole life. Yeah. And to this day, you know, I still have people, like, move their kids away from me in the grocery store. I still have people ladies night downtown whitefish, which is, you know, I've gone to for years. I still have people follow me around the stores. And they know who I am. I've been in this community for a long time. Yeah. But it's just, I mean, and then ignorance isn't always bliss. And that's really where I feel

that the valley has gotten stuck. They don't want, we there's not many people of color. So it's not an issue that's been prominently addressed. Yeah, it's tough. It's tough. The vocal, you know, social media, or I often find it, you know, even on just traditional media, whatever you would like to call what you see on TV, it's like 90% of the airwaves are the vocal minority. And the silent majority that it never gets, it never gets heard. Right. Right. So what do you do in the valley. So right now, I work at Glacier Medical into private practice. I do coding for them.

What does that mean? I saw that on the article. I was meant to ask you, what exactly does coding mean? Basically, it's like the conversation between the doctors and the insurance companies. Oh, no.

All the stuff. Yeah, so I've been working there for three years. And then I also work up at Glacier Raft Company. They have a wedding venue that I bartend just to, you know, side hustle. Yeah, it's, well, one of the, massive benefits, obviously, of this valley is you could go in any direction and pick a different sport.

Yeah. Per season. Yeah. Which is amazing. So let's talk about the picture. Okay. Like I said, I think it captures, I think it captures the best of what this country has to offer.

And I say that, and this is my opinion, viewing it from you standing there, unwavering, and then it looked like inches away, a man. towering over the top of you, basically trying to, it looked like screaming down or yell you down, whatever it made, yeah. And that's the worst of what this country could be. It's amazing to, that picture and then there's black and white. It's like it, it's such a stark, to me, at least it speaks to how horrendous we can be and how good we can be. Yeah. So what actually, I mean, pictures, pictures are tough too because, right, it's not moving or living. So what exactly, what happened? What led to that?

So, and I want to give credit to the teenagers who had been out there two days prior for me showing up. But with kind of like with the deaths of Amad Arbery, Rihanna Taylor, George Floyd, for me, that was, as an African-American woman, I've never really been able to speak about that with anybody here about how that feels, you know, thinking about my brothers in Massachusetts and things like that. Are they both there? Yeah. Cool. And so, you know, it just, it really hit me. And this time I felt like I needed to do something. thing.

Prior to this, I had actually posted my original Facebook post. It was just like as an African-American woman, I feel like it's time for me to say something. And then I found out these protests were going on. So I showed up that Tuesday night. And this was in Whitefish, right? Yeah, downtown Whitefish. And that was the first night. And we had two people that night, like, come and, like, you know, yell all lives matter

and, you know, Trump 2020 and all this weird shit that, like, didn't, it's not relevant to what we were doing, but whatever. And then Wednesday night that that happened, we had about 40 people out there, mostly teenagers. Which I view is a good sign. Oh my gosh. I'm obsessed with them. I really have reached out of them. I view that as a very good sign because that's the generationally, that's how change happens.

Because everything that I suspect we're going to talk about while we're here, it's not like that light switch over there. There's no, and it's the problem is solved. It's going to be a generational shift. Yeah. It really is. and I was super proud because I was telling somebody yesterday, I don't know if I would have done it at their age. I mean,

I can almost say that I wouldn't have because I was ashamed of who I was anyway. Yeah. And then to stand out there for the whole community to see people are flipping you off, honking at you, you know, saying terrible things. You know, being a developing teenager, I mean, that's a lot, you know. So I was super proud of them. And so that night, there was about 40 of us. And his name is Jay Snowden,

and he was driving around the block yelling at us from his truck. Is this guy kind of well known for doing stuff like this? Does he have some associations with any notable groups? I don't know for sure. I know that he has some domestic violence charges. I know that he said, you know, he was screaming that he was a serviceman, but he's also apparently he's missed a very angry man. You can tell that even just from the picture.

Yeah. Yeah, that picture is still. It's powerful. It's one of the most powerful pictures I've ever seen. It's crazy. Like when I first saw it, I didn't know it was me, kind of. I was like, whoa, like, oh my gosh, whoa, whoa, but I'll get to that. So, yeah, so he'd been circling and I, like, again, nobody thought anything of it

because it was just kind of like people had done that. It was groups of teenagers yelling at us from their cars going in circles. And it's like, okay. But then all of a sudden there was like a commotion behind me. And, you know, I turned around definitely the first thing I went through my head was I'm an older person here. I wanted to assert myself into the situation. So I kind of turned around and just like kind of assess and see what was going on and to kind of just make sure everyone was okay.

And then when I turned around, he saw me. I saw him. And I knew that he was going to come to me. I mean, I just knew. And so he came over and he was just yelling, you know, fuck you, fuck you. It's the internet. Let it rip. Yeah.

Like, right. I'm a game. Can I say that? Podcasts are fair game. You can let it rip. I was really afraid. I was going to like curse. at Michael Holmes on CNN

when I did my first interview because the F word is very prominent in my vocabulary. I would have been so proud of you if you did. I don't think my parents would have been. I tell you what, if anybody ever tries to get a hold of me for national media,

it'll only happen once. Because I feel like I would intentionally like as I'm signing off, be like, fuck you. And then they're like, no, you're never. Yeah, never mind. No more him. So yeah, I'm proud of myself.

But so he was in my face just yelling, Fuck you, fuck you. All lives matter. Like, I'm a serviceman. Fuck you. Black lives don't matter. That guy's not a serviceman. Yeah, I mean.

The only thing that guy is servicing is a pizza straight down his throat. Yeah. Like, so he was doing that. And in that moment, I just, like, took off my sunglasses because I wanted him to look me in the eye. And that's what was captured. Yeah. So, and that's something that my father instilled into me at a very young age. Unfortunately, that's not the first band.

to treat me like that or the second or the third or the fourth and men have been pretty awful to me throughout my life my father was actually an abusive person as well when he was using so yeah i was kind of been training for that moment for most of my life and but one of the things that my dad used to tell me and my brothers when we were kids um it's no matter the threat no matter who it is or what it is make sure that they have to look you in the eye so they have to acknowledge you're human and in that moment i my father passed away 16 years ago this month and uh i don't think about him much it's just It's been 16 years. And there's the bittersweet aspect of all of that.

That's just a different story. But in that moment, I thought of that. And I left up my sunglasses and I made him look me in the eye. And, you know, the look on his eyes, he is the most piercing blue eyes I've ever seen. Really? I'll, like, never forget his eyes. Really? Mm-hmm.

But it was like he did. He did acknowledge I was human in that moment. And then he kind of, like, stumbled over his words and then, you know, went towards the teenagers. And at that point. Picking an easier target. Yeah. And so then at that point, you know, and then it was moments. Then the police kind of finally stepped in and escorted him out of there, you know, and he went kicking and screaming. And, you know, he didn't get arrested until the next day, which. Oh, he went back the next day. No, he got arrested the next day. He didn't get arrested that night. But he did wreak of booze and they did escort him to his truck, which I, whatever. I mean, I could talk about that all day, but whatever. So, yeah, and then the moment was over. And then it was back to protesting. Yeah.

So. You know, people talk about rights, and I find often that people frame them in the terms of what they are allowed to do. I can do this. I can say that. And to me, I view them differently. Like, I can have whatever belief I want to, but true freedom of expression means that you can have somebody who just boils your blood and they get to express their opinion and you tolerate it because that's freedom versus someone. versus somebody who tries to come get into your face and scream down what it is.

Like that to me is, that's a misunderstanding of what our country is supposed to be about. And, you know, everything about this, everything behind it, again, we haven't even made it political yet.

We could. I could talk to you about my political views all day. Go for it. Fire away. But that's not what we were doing out there. Okay, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? That's what I,

you know, we were out there, you know, asking people to acknowledge the, the inequality of people of color. Just to acknowledge it, to see it, to say their names, to understand that the divide is there. We are treated differently, you know, and for people to combat that, you know, it's just really hard for me to wrap my head around.

It's because they, well, let me just tell you, I'm not an expert on anything, but I see it as, well, I see it as them thinking that the center of the universe is them and their beliefs. And to me, that's such a myopic. view, because this is a bubble, for sure. Yeah. If you think that Whitefish Montana is indicative of the greater United States of America,

your meter is just completely, completely off-kilter. Fuck. Yeah. I get lost. It doesn't make sense to me. I get lost and all that. I don't know where it comes from, and I don't know. You know, the worst things that I've ever seen happen is our species.

as human beings doing them to other human beings. Like I cannot believe that as a species, we have to, we have to take the time to remind people like this black lives matter. That you have to, it's like, it's like as it's like, what are we doing? Like we have the ability to to hate or to be malicious. It's like I don't, I should stop being surprised. I will say that because I've seen enough human behavior and interactions, but it still floors me how somebody could think that doing that to you,

for one, is going to do anything, right? Because if you don't, if you have a position, Sammy that I don't agree with, my philosophy is I need to have a better position, an economy of ideas.

I don't like your idea, so I'm going to come to you with a better idea and we're going to have a conversation. Yeah, just have the conversation. Even if he came up to me and was like, I don't like what you're doing, I would have been like, why?

And I would have listened because I want to be listened to. Nobody wants that question. It's like a gentleman when we were protesting in Calisville came up to me and he's like, do you believe that black lives matter? And I was like, yes. He's like, do you believe that blue lives matter? I'm like, well, there's no such thing as blue lives. They are not born.

What are you talking about? I've seen the smirms. Oh my God, you're cut off. And, you know, and I was like, you know, I was, you know, I was, you know, I was, you know, and he was talking about police. Yeah. And he was talking about police. But I'm like, they took an oath.

Yeah. You know, that's something they chose to do. I did not choose to be a person of color. and he just kept asking you, do I believe, and I just was like, sir. Oh, he kept coming at you with the same question. Yeah, blue lives, blue lives. And I'm like, I answered your question

and I don't want to fight with you. I'll explain. I'm like, I'm not here asking, I'm not saying fuck the police. Yeah. You know, I'm just asking you to acknowledge. You can support the Black Lives Matter movement and also support the police.

Crazy. And, you know, and I've, I've become friends with a lot of the law enforcement in the valley. Like, I do jiu-jitsu like a block away. And there's a lot of police officers there, and I'm glad they are because it gives them more tools in their tool belt. Right.

Even speaking about, you know, the George Floyd incident, the, you know, I've had people with their knee on my neck because it's a legitimate control position in jujitsu. And guess what? If you've ever had that happen to you for two seconds, yeah. You would realize that almost nine minutes of that, it's, like, it's ridiculous. Well, no, exactly. I mean, I have been choked before and worried about my life. And at all of our protests, we do the eight minutes and 46 seconds of just silence and

even just being quiet for that long. and you think about that. It's like, how did that happen? And he's not the first man that that's happened too. And, you know, I just think it's time for us to acknowledge how far behind we really are. Yeah. And, you know, a friend of mine who is a law enforcement officer here in the Valley, he put out an awesome post today and basically was calling for people law enforcement

to be accountable to themselves, to accountable. Because I truly believe that you can say in the same breath, black life matters, black lives matter, however you would like to describe it. And also, I support the police. It's 100% possible.

And the police officers that I know, I mean, all of them, they're saying exactly the same thing. Like, that's fucking horrendous. That dude was killed. It was,

you know, like, and they, and here's the issue that I think, I mean, again, I'm not an expert to anything.

I never spent a single day as a law enforcement officer because I would be fired on my first day because I would just be like, I'm sorry, what? Nope,

drag him out of his car. Like, no, we've come to this house 10 times because this guy keeps having domestic assault. Like step outside. Like, and then I'd be in jail. Well,

you probably wouldn't be. Oh, you might because you'd be, I don't know. Because I mean, because when I say, you know, I don't have,

I want to put this delicately. I'm not like, fuck the police. Yeah. However, as a whole, you have to be accountable to your brothers and sisters. Yes.

And even if you're not, associated with the negative things going on. If you're not speaking up, you're still on the wrong side of it. And that's my issue. I can see what you're saying. I hear what you're saying for sure. Yeah, you know, and then I, you know, I think about it from, and this isn't a justification. I think about it from their side. They're, you know, they have a difficult job. Absolutely. And I think they're probably, I think the social optic, it might be keeping a lot of those people quiet because they don't want to lever more difficulty on top of an already difficult job. But I hear exactly what you're saying.

And I think police officers, I mean, they should be seeing therapists. They need the mental health aspect of that. Their job needs to be way more important because what they do see a lot. I'm not ever going to discredit that. I'm never going to say anything like that. But what they do needs to, I mean, there needs to be a component of support so that, you know, when they get tired and when they get fed up from seeing all this negative stuff, they're not desensitized.

You know, I think you just hit on a very key thing. And I've had this conversation with them. The calls they go to are not birthday party. Well, they might be a birthday party, but it's not a birthday party that played out like we would want our birthday party to play out. Exactly. It's drunk uncle went bananas. Hopefully not with a machete. But, you know, and I had a, I listened to an officer not too long ago speak really deeply about, you know, he felt that he actually needed to have friends outside of law enforcement. Because it also, if they only, work together and hang out together, it's like, it's almost a cycle that it doesn't have the chance to break because what are they, what do you know, if you work with somebody and you hang out, what are you going to talk about? Yeah, work. You're going to talk about work. And even my old job, the mental health, the somebody, if I wasn't trying to think of the terminology right now, I'd have the word for this.

It, it wasn't mental health. It was like mental hygiene. Right. Okay. Consistent, you know, just like, hey, take shower, probably good. idea. I mean, unless, yeah, but consistently. And it was, it was something that would have helped me with my old job, I think, too.

But it had a, man, this might be a little broad. But I would say a stigma associated with saying, hey, I need some help. Yeah, especially with men, especially of men in power, saying that they need help. I mean, unfortunately, our country makes that seem not masculine, which isn't fair. I think the most manly thing you can do is be like, yeah, ask for support. Yes. is stand up for what you need, like, so that we can have, again, have the conversations that need to be had. Because until we have those conversations, all of these things stay in the dark, you know, light need to be brought into so many areas.

There's not just like this one thing needs to be fixed. It's a systematic issue. It goes way deep and it's going to take a lot of work. But what else are we going to do? It's time. It's been time. Yeah, you know, I wonder what it's going to look like in six, months and 12 and 18 and 24.

Because what I know of law enforcement is it's backed by bureaucracy. And let me just tell you, the military is a bureaucratic machine. And you can spin on the wheel. Like if it's like driving this massive ship, right? And you're spinning the wheel as fast as you can. And like six weeks later, it moves a degree. The bow of the ship moves. It's going to take a long time.

Yeah. But if people are willing to do the work and put in the time, even if it's just that little bit, it's something. You know, I'm a very hopeful person under all the circumstances that are my life, just because I have been able to change. I have not always been this woman. I, like, just ride depression and anxiety. I've been my whole life, you know, very dark, very, I've got, I've had issues.

I've had the same therapist since I was 11 years old. She's been there since my dad died and my life kind of changed very rapidly. and, you know. So you weren't that old when your father passed away, were you? No, I was 11. So my dad took his life. I'm sorry to hear that. It happens, unfortunately.

So, yeah, I was 11. My little brother was 9 and my older brother was 13. And you said you were raised by him by your, what happens after that just from a custody perspective? So we were actually, our story, I'm super blessed. I'm super, super blessed because when we moved to Whitefish Montana, we started attending the Whitefish Assembly of God Church. We met a family.

We called them Aunt Erica and Uncle Scott. And my mother, that's who I consider my mom now, she was unable to have children. So she kind of took me in at a really young age, like since I was four, she would take me out to do girly things because I was pretty much convinced I was a boy until I was 12. Well, it's not like you were surrounded by that at all.

Exactly. Yeah, like I'm a dude. What's that? Like, yeah, I'm not free this weekend because I'm going to go play a fucking army in the world. I was like, I'm a Boy Scout. I'm doing Girl Scout shit. So she would take me one Saturday a month to go do girly things and buy me girl clothes because I did wear my brother's hand me downs because my dad was like, she's fine.

Whatever. Like what are you talking about? They fit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, sort of. But so they were always in our life. And as we got older, my dad,

had the substance abuse problem. And so he started to become abusive towards me and my brothers. And as we got older, it kind of just got worse and worse and worse. Did he descend into the abuse of the substance? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he was prescribed in the doctor at the time that he was seeing just fed his addiction.

I mean, my dad would just be like, because he was oxy cotton. Oh, the back injury. Yeah. Oh, okay. The class, okay. The addiction to the remedy for the, gotcha. Yeah, that's, again, not an expert in anything. I don't think of, well, I had some, I got hurt at work years ago.

And the military's idea of medicine was like, here you go. Yeah. Like 14 different pill bottles. And let's say, I mean, I want it on an exploratory journey of what is this like with a half a bottle of Captain Morgan. It's what, you know. Captain. Each. Um, I was in my 20s.

What are you talking about? I'm in my 20s. It's a fine beverage for a young man in their 20s. I think it was like the small, oh, God, it's so off topic. But yeah, I mean, obviously I was mixing with Diet Coke. So it's not like I was just going Captain Street. Captain and Diet Coke is a fine beverage. I haven't had one in about 20 years because it's not that fine.

But I was like, that's right. You bartend. You're just like, no, no, you suck. Yeah, I'm like, don't ask me for that. But it's, I, you know, the, I have a genetic blood abnormality that I share with my sister. And those types of medicines are less effective on me. So I'd never felt the grab.

But I have heard people talking about not two months into it, not a month into it, two to three days into starting to take those things. And then even experiencing a little bit of withdrawals at the end of that like, fuck. Yeah. No, I mean. And then to be,

have a doctor that would enable that. Yeah. I mean, my dad could just call, I mean, you're supposed to wait a certain amount of days. Well, prescriptions are supposed to be refilled on the interval with which they're prescribed to be used. That was just not the case. My dad was just, my dad was a schmoozer. So, I mean, I'm sure. I mean, my dad could, yeah. So, um. He could sweet talk anybody. Anybody and did. And we just watched it. And we were young and we're like, he's full of shit. Like, what? Okay. Well, selling ice to Eskimos? Pretty much. So as the abuse got like worse. Um,

We finally told another family member. We had a dog at the time, and my dad, he was so messed up. He would take us out of school to walk this dog for, like, hours. He would take you out of school to walk. Okay. Interesting. So, yeah, again, drugs. And so we were walking, like, in this blizzard.

So this was February of 2004. And for people listening, it's not warm in Montana in February. Even in our bubble of weather. We get a little about a 10-degree bump, I think, from the planes, but it's still not warm. No. Yeah, blizzards, snow, wind, you know, children, dog, not great. And so we stopped at another family member's house and they were like, why are you guys out here? What are you doing?

Why are you so far from home? We're like, oh, you know, dad will get pissed if we go home and too soon. And which kind of opened up the conversation and we kind of like, well, yeah, and if he'll beat us and blah, blah, blah, blah. And they were like, oh, what? And we didn't know, I mean, we knew it wasn't normal. We knew that everybody, you know, didn't have like belt marks on them and things like that. but we didn't know how not normal it was. Yeah.

So they ended up being like, hey, you guys just like go hang out. And so that night, we got taken away from my dad. Family that we'd never met kind of showed up the next day and this whole whirlwind of a time happened. And because Scott and Erica have always been our godparents, they had custody of us for us for a few months. We ended up going back to my dad. I believe in March, a month later,

he wasn't allowed to talk about the court case with us, but they put us back into his custody, which obviously didn't work. So we got taken away again. Why did they decide to do that? You know, I don't know. I've never really gotten a straight answer on that. Nobody really remembers why they... Because that, I mean, from a total outside perspective,

that sounds like an incredibly bizarre slash irresponsible move on whoever's decision that was. Right. I mean, my brothers and I have talked about, we thought he was either going to kill us, take us on the run and never come back, you know. And so when they came to school, you know, a couple weeks later, And they were like, actually, you guys are going back to Scott and Erica. We were like, I mean, I can't speak for them. But I was like, that's a lot of stress off of us.

And so, um, how old were you at this point? 11. God damn. That's a lot of shoulder at the age of 11. Yeah. My brother and I are strong. We, you know, we, we took care of each other. We've always had each other.

So in that respect, you know, we did what we could. And we loved our, we loved our dad and do love our dad. And can see the reality of the situation of how the system failed him as well. And so we were in contact a little bit. And then June 29th of 2004, we were at our babysitters. Scott and Erica came and let us know what happens. And so then they had to do the custody work. But then we were just put in their care and they became mom and dad shortly after.

And that was the first time in our whole lives that we had a mom and a dad. I'm so glad to hear that that family was there for you in that situation. because I can imagine, I can imagine that you and your brothers might be the anomaly when it comes to how that situation normally plays itself out. Imagine if you didn't have the godparents or for the people who have that happen. Yeah. You show up at a random house. Yeah, we could, I mean, if they separated us. God, that gives me the chills thinking about that.

Yeah, I mean, we were super, like, again, you know, it's hard to people, when I tell people I'm blessed, when they hear that, it's like, but see the blessing in it. Because then my parents got kids. They didn't have kids. They always wanted kids. My dad was a children's pastor. To this day, we'll just be at a restaurant. Like, little kids just wanted to, like, talk to him. So, I mean, they finally got their babies, and it was rough.

We were definitely some messed up children. We had some shit. Probably some stuff to unwrap and unpack over the years, for sure. Yeah, but they did the work with us, and we've managed to grow and become a family. So in that respect, it's been really cool. And the advice that your dad gave you about confronting people like that and looking them in the eye, It's powerful and it's completely correct. I mean, I would give my kids the same advice.

100%. It's why I try to avoid absolutes. I don't believe in always and never, and I don't believe in, well, I believe in some pretty pure evil, but I think at the end of the day, people have shades of both in there. Yeah, I mean, there's, yeah, exactly.

We are all born, beautiful and good, and the world has the ability to change us really quick. And again, racism starts in the home. It's not like something you're born with. It's something that's taught. And, you know, and I've watched it happen. And I've watched the responses on people. Because I've gotten so much love through all of this.

Again, Thomas, like, what an amazing. I know. And again, he's in the Congo now, probably climbing a tree and, like, hand-cranking a generator to get internet. Right. Or he's at a hotel. I could be completely wrong. Whatever he's doing.

I imagine, I imagine Thomas wearing a, safari vest and I don't know why but I feel like he has a fanny pack on he definitely has on Birkenstocks in like pants that are like three inches up the calf I can't confirm any of this but this is just what I think and then he climbs a tree and like gets like a little antenna out and then he logs in and he's connecting us yeah I mean he was just like you're gonna I want you to meet this person I want you to meet this person I told him about you you might get a call from this person didda da da you know when I like because the night so how has that been after all of this I mean It sounds like you, you know, you get to do national media.

Yeah. How was that experience? Again, I was like shaking. Like when I, is Michael Holmes. The CNN plays in our house a lot. Yeah. Just kind of like background noise, which is fortunate and unfortunate. So Michael Holmes is like a staple.

And so when they were like, oh, yeah, like, let's do this. And I was just like, I'm going to talk to Michael Holmes about this picture that I haven't even processed yet about this moment in my life that I hadn't processed yet. you know, I had just started speaking up as a woman of color, like days prior to this photo. I spent 27 years of my life being silent. And as soon as I opened my mouth, I mean, here. Yeah. You know, it's like.

And I'm glad you were. Yeah. And so it's been amazing. That kind of stuff. I mean, I was so nervous. I'm an introverted extrovert. So like, well, explain how it happens because I've never actually done one of those. Aren't you basically standing and just in front of?

front of the lens of a camera with lights in your face. Well, I, I did, I zoomed in. Oh, okay. Yeah. Oh, you cheated. I've heard of people who like go to studios with a green screen. COVID. I couldn't. Oh, of course. But they're like looking at just the fish eye. They're just sitting there like, uh, no, I was in my house and my, we had like, that's cheating. It was worse. I had to like, run downstairs. I was like, turn off the sink. I'm about to me on CNN. You know, it was just like, so I was like, you know, but it ended up being calm. And then like the next day did, you know, CNN domestic and then the next day was CBS International. And then some of the local news and still some of the local news

broadcasts are trickling in. It's been over two weeks. It's interesting. You would national first and then circle back around. Yeah. But it was interesting even just like with the Black Lives Matter movement with us out there asking for equality. I mean, they were the, you know, the daily interlake was, you know,

taking pictures of the white kids and interviewing the white kids about this movement, about people of color. And that's a problem to me. You know, the thing is, is one of the things. as I keep saying is, you know, people hear the word white privilege and, you know, it doesn't feel good. I get it. I'm black and it didn't feel good until a couple weeks ago.

But you can use your white privilege for good and that's what you should take from it. Use your white privilege to support people of color. Use it so that we can amplify our voices. But this movement, this specific movement about people of color, this needs to be led by people of color. Which honestly to me is like that's like common sense. You would think. Same as police reform.

I believe that police reform should be led by police officers. Yes. The ones that stand up and take the voice. We can all have our opinions about the police. We can all have our opinions about people of color. But until you actually sit down with somebody who's living it, you're just speculating. You're assuming. And that's where we get in trouble.

You don't know me. So you can't assume these things about me. And until you know my story, even though no matter how powerful that picture is, it goes way deep for me. Seeing myself in a position like that, like I said, my friend sent me a screenshot of that photo and I was like, wow, that's like a really powerful image.

And then I was like, holy shit, that's my face. Like, and I just knew, I didn't know how far this would go or spread, but I knew that my life was going to change. You can kind of tell, right, in some of those moments. Yeah, and it has. And it's been so powerful and so beautiful I've gotten to do and see and speak

and make so many amazing, connections I otherwise wouldn't have. So all of this, again, I'm, I'm always going to err on the side of the beautiful. I try to see the best in things so that I can continue to be hopeful and peaceful. Because in that moment, if that had happened to me three years ago, if that man had gotten into my face like that, I don't know if I would have done the same thing. I don't even know if a year ago I would have done the same thing. You know, everything kind of fell into place really specifically for that time in my life. And, you know, it wasn't like I was just looking at him.

I was looking at everyone who's tried to do that to me. And it was powerful for me to stand there and, you know, looked on my sunglasses and be like, not today. You're not going to make me feel small. Yeah. Not here. And, you know, all the abuse that happened to me is behind closed doors. So this man was on display.

And so I knew I was safe. Even if he had hit me. It was going to be on, you know, cameras, you know, I knew that. He wasn't going to get away with it. He wasn't going to get away with it. So I, I mean, that I did have the power, you know, the power that I've always had, but I was surrounded by people who you were in an environment where you felt comfortable expressing it. Yeah. Yeah, that makes

sense to me. Yeah. What are your plans going forward to help keep spreading your message? Yeah. Not necessarily your message or the message that you want to spread. I mean, I think all of this is bigger than all of us. Yes, absolutely. But now that I'm here, you know, the spotlight fades and then the real work, then the real work happens. So it's continuing these conversations, you know, but it's also getting people of color and community out into the community, city politics, in our schools. You, we have to, there's more, we can talk about Martin Luther King all day. And that's like the February, we talk about it in schools, we talk about him, Rosa Parks, little Malcolm X if we're feeling freaky, and then it's back to normal.

And so I just want to go deeper and I want to educate, you know, as I'm educating myself, educate the people around me, so that we can continue to get comfortable with the uncomfortable so that we can heal from all of this stuff. So specifically I have planned, everything's kind of not in concrete yet, but I'm going to be. The best plans are never in concrete.

Yeah, and I don't do great with the plan. There's a little, you know, there's an element of we're going to just do it live. Yeah. That actually plays out pretty well most of the time. And that's kind of, I've been flying by the seat of my pants the entire time. I've been alive, so here we are.

So, yeah, I don't have, like, the specifics. I can tell you, you're going to see me in this valley. And I'm going to do it with grace and respect, but enough is enough. And whether I've going to have people of color stand with me on the street or supporting me from behind, I don't care. But I can't go back to who I was now. That would feel like a failure to me, and that's just not acceptable. It sounds to me like you're not that person anymore anyway.

I don't think I yeah I guess I'm not I'm not yeah I bet you even if you tried I don't think you'd be able to stand there and not take action again if the if it required it right so you're talking about in the valley like let's I mean I this valley is interesting you brought it up it's and it's true I totally agree with you Montana in itself I mean yeah one million 10,000 people now maybe call it one million 20,000 people maybe maybe yeah you know know what I've noticed, people from Montana get pissed when people from not from Montana come around. Yes. I post pictures of beautiful things from Montana on Instagram and these sons of bitches come out of the woodwork. You are ruining the property value in Montana. You're going to

understand when the Californians take over. And so I just, of course, post another one. Well, and it's funny. Like even while I was standing, again, I have been here for so long. I mean, I moved away, but a lot of people that's community know me. They know my family. I mean, people were yelling at us, which most of those people out there were locals. There's some people who've moved here, but I mean, yelling, go back to California. Go back to your home. Why is California always the one that they reference?

I mean, a lot of people from California do end up here. Well, I mean, I'll tell you a secret. This is better than California. Just me and I tried it. Same here. I lived in California for all of eight years of my life. Okay. the four years in Missoula that I vaguely remember.

Right. And then Virginia Beach for another four plus years. Okay. And I will never go back there because I hate humidity. I hate anything other than about 70 degrees. And this is, yeah, we're good here. Yeah. And I grew up, you know, one of the things that I love about my community is we grew up just talking to everyone.

You know, you wave, you nod. There is an essence of that. So I've always loved that. So when I was living in these other places where that didn't happen, I like didn't know what to, like, do with my hands. are like where to look. The Ricky Bobby? Yeah. So this is home.

And I really believe in my community. Again, I've gotten some hate and whatever. You know, it's not the first time. Yeah. This isn't new. Now it's just on, you know, Facebook. But more than that, I've gotten so much love and so much support and so many people like, how can I help?

How can I get educated? What do you need? And I'm like, hold on. I got to get through this week. And then I'll let you know, you know. It's like, as I'm learning, I will teach. and I want to be teachable. And again, I want to do, again, when you feel attacked,

you don't hear what people are saying. So I'm trying to do this as delicately and beautifully as I can because I know how hard change is. And, you know, again, to go back to the silent majority versus the violently, you know, vocal minority, I think that most people want exactly what you're talking about. They want a conversation. Yeah.

But that doesn't get people to tune into Fox News or seeing it or fill in the blank. Right. Those are the most recognizable. But it's the violent confrontation. It's the person who, you know, is out there making the biggest splash that they can. And it's, I don't recognize like a lot of those, any group, actually groups on the fringe on the left or right make absolutely no sense to me other than the fact that they're absolutely fucking crazy. Yeah. I mean, the far left and the far right.

Like, what the fuck are you doing? You're not helping anymore or ever, really. The fringe just scared the shit out of me in humanity, for sure. And I think most people are, like for me, people will ask me about my political affiliation. And my honest answer is, I don't know. I land in the middle on almost every, almost every single issue. And I, they're like, well, you're a Democrat or Republican. And most of the time I'll just say, I'm just an American.

Like, I don't actually feel well represented by either. No. Major party that, yeah. But those major parties occupy the vast majority, and they have their own media. Whatever side you fall onto, like you're saying the CNN plays in your household. There's plenty of Fox News households here in the Valley. Yeah. Oh, absolutely.

And, you know, we have to be careful about, you know, especially being raised in the church. They always talking about, like, be careful what you're, like, what you're feeding yourself and, you know, what information you're taking in. What you consume, educates what comes out. Right. I warn people about that too. A perfect example would be COVID, which you want to talk about it, an amazing, how fortunate we are to live here during that. Again, a bubble.

Yeah. I traveled to L.A. twice during while this was going on. And it was, what word would accurately describe it? I don't know what word crazy. Like, I would call it crazy, but that's like, that's not even. And then, you know, come back here. and but still people are, they're watching for,

you know, before the current events, which literally looks like a lot of the US appears to be on fire. Yeah. What was leading a lot of the news organizations was that fucking COVID tracker. The number of cases and the number of deaths.

And I would talk, they're like, you guys see the numbers? They're going up. And I tell them like, you understand that they're only going to go up, right? Yeah. Like, you understand.

And so, and how is watching that tracker educating your decision? How is it informing what you're going to do? You just bought 37 years worth of toilet paper. And all of the rice and also all of the oatmeal, which, by the way, you don't need. But now other people think that there's a shortage because you're causing panic. So you do have to.

And, you know, the media is another good one. What percentage of the media and you can define that however you want to, whether it be like, some people think Instagram is news? Oh, God. Oh, yes. It's breaking news. Or, you know, the snappy chat, as my daughter likes to call it. Snappy chat.

What's she into now? TikTok, Tiki talk. Okay, the Tiki talk. There can be some breaking shit in there. I got kind of pulled into that during COVID. So I was like, I'm bored. I was like, there's some like, these are just normal people doing cool shit. I like that.

But what percentage of news do you think people, what would you guess is negative versus positive? All of it. I know. I sat down for a couple hours the other day. I sat down for a couple hours the other day. I was, and again, obviously it's not a scientific double blind gold study, but I just was like, I'm going to watch the news for a couple hours just to see positive versus negative. No.

And I made like little tick marks, negative, negative, negative. And if that's the background noise to your life, that's going to inform how you think, how you judge, how you view the world. That's a fucked up optic. Right. And if you can't, you know, we have to celebrate the beauty too, you know, we have to find, I mean, Because if we focus, I mean, if you want to focus on negative, there's all of it out there. There's so much shit.

Well, you're going to find what you're looking for. In my own life, I've experienced that. Yeah. If I'm having a shitty day, guess what I see everywhere. Oh, shit. But if I'm having a great day, guess what I see everywhere. Things go on my way. Oh, I timed all the green lights.

Like, but literally something literally like that. It informs and it just, it's like, it completely changes how you navigate through. It's, yeah, man, mandatory turn the news off would kind of be nice. Yeah. And I think, like, you know, if we did turn our TVs off, if we did, you know, really sit down. I mean, obviously, with COVID, we can't all get together right now. But if we turn our TVs off. Canada, Montana, what?

Don't say that people. Actually, technically you can't, but you kind of can't. Oh, my God. But if we, like, seriously sat down, even with people of opposing sides and really, because we can, speak all this stuff, but until you get to like know somebody's heart and where these things came from, you can't, you have no room to judge. Yeah. We've all been taught certain things through our lives.

We've all made bad decisions. We've all come to conclusions different ways. And until we can really sit down and have honest conversations about that and be real about, you know, ourselves, nothing's going to change because, you know, people like our bubble and not just the whitefish bubble, but us as humans, what we're comfortable with. You know, it's easy to sit down with people who are like. like-minded and go back and forth and shoot and shit and just feel positive from that. But what is really cool is to sit down with people who maybe don't see things the same way,

but you can have a respectful conversation. And even if you don't walk away like, oh, you change my opinion of things, but you can change the way I see you and why I see you better. And I think that's where the change really begins. We don't have to all be alike. When people are like, oh, I'm colorblind. Like don't be, see color, see the things that make us beautiful. See the differences between us is that's what it makes life awesome.

We are different. We all have a story to tell. And until we start telling those stories, all these things are just going to, again, stay in the dark. And people are just going to have these weird opinions that came from their personal bias. I have things that I have to work on. Everybody does. As a human, as a species, if somebody tells you they don't have some internal bias, I think they're being dishonest. Yes, 100%.

And it's, and I think bias in racism. are different things. Right. You know, and it's, you know, what you were talking about that I think the most difficult step

and the stuff that you just said was somebody to include myself taking an objective look inward. Yeah. It's very easy to externalize or look outward. You know, the tough one is to actually take an objective look at yourself because you might not like what you see.

Yeah. I've had plenty of times in my life where I'm like, I'm not doing, not doing great. Yeah. Could do better. Yes. Yes.

Any human being that tells me that like, no, I've never had that thought. I'm like, eh. You should. It's time to go look in the mirror now then. Let me, let's block off a few hours of your schedule and you could sit down and talk to me about, talk it through. Let's talk it through. Nothing. No, totally.

And I think, again, and that goes back to everyone's like, because I do want to change the world. I do want to change the world, but it starts with my community. And that's what I was going to ask you. You said that a lot of people have reached out to you. What are they asking? What are they saying? So it was actually really cool. last night I spoke at Chrysalis, which is a therapeutic boarding school for girls.

Here in the valley? In Eureka. Okay. Oh, New York. That's Northwest. Yeah. That's the city that's not very far away, but that goddamn road isn't straight. So it takes forever to get there.

Okay. Good. Yes. That place. We're talking about the same place. It's like 17 miles away and takes like an hour. Yeah, it takes an hour. And I was like, the lady who drove me, like, she was talking and I just kind of fell

asleep. And I was like, I'm sorry. This is just, it's so long and it's peaceful. And slightly winding. Yeah. And a little bit. Yes. So.

I almost fell asleep driving to that place. I get it. I hate driving. So, yeah, I spoke there last night to these girls from eighth grade to seniors and just, and they asked me questions. And they got more real than anybody I've spoken to yet. They wanted that. What kind of stuff are they asking?

You know, like, they were like, so you, you know, how I mentioned like my life changed two weeks ago. They're like, who were you two weeks prior to this? That is a good question. Who were you two weeks prior to this? I was healing. You know, I, this year's been actually really rough. I called off my engagement at the beginning of the year.

to an abusive white male. And so I've been just like pouring in the work on myself. Good for you for doing that, by the way. Thank you. Yeah. It's been. That wasn't going to get better as you added months to the calendar. It was getting worse.

Yeah. And, you know, but again, the way I was raised, the things I put myself through, sometimes, you know, again, even going back to that picture, I don't always see myself the way that people see me. And so with all of this happening, I really had to take a look in the mirror and be like, Samantha, you've always been this powerful. you just haven't claimed it. You've always tried to make sure that everyone else was good at the sacrifice of yourself.

So, um, I get, I've, again, like I said, you know, I definitely, I have depression and anxiety. And that has been crippling at times of my life. Um, and so yeah, I mean, I was starting to, I've just been healing a lot of, from the stuff from my childhood, you know, again, I started seeing my therapist again last year and she's been doing a lot of work with me. And so I was just starting to become this person. And then I was just forced to do it. And I stood up to the challenge and I'm glad about that.

But prior to that, you know, if I hadn't gone through all of this stuff, I don't know. So I do think everything happens for a reason to some extent. And even though life hasn't always dealt me the most beautiful hand right now, I can confidently say I feel beautiful and not just like this, but just like inside. Yeah. You know, even though I'm exhausted. because I've talked to like more people than like ever in my whole life. It's crazy, right?

Like, oh, like I said, I'm an introverted extrovert. So like with my people I'm chatting, but like new people, I'm like, oh, hey. I'm glad you defined that because I was going to have to Google introverted extrovert later. I'll tell you text. You saved me some time on the old Google machine by explaining that. You're welcome. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, I want to keep evolving and changing.

But yeah, those girls were amazing. And so I've talked to, you know, people like that. you know, people like that. And they got real and they shared with me. And my heart is that younger generation. I really just saw so much beauty there last night. And then the other people that have reached out, they were like, how can I support you?

What are you doing next? And what can I do to help? And I'm like, again, pause, I will get back to you because I will need help. You know, I also just need to be held accountable. You know, I need to, you know, Sam, what are you doing to keep moving forward? How are you educating yourself? Who are you speaking to? And, you know, so I need that.

So that's the main thing I've been saying to people. But yeah, everyone, and then I have a group of people that I'm kind of working with right now to, there's some organizations in the Valley, but there's not anything colored people led. So that is right now my mission is to get a group of people who are in the community, you know, as an organization, whether it's a non-pro, I haven't decided exactly how that's all going to look, but that are going to be a part, you know, we're going to be at the city council meetings. I want to hear what they're talking about. And I want them to see my face.

You know, I'm here now and I'm here to stay. You know, if, you know, we went to Jay Stone and's, um, court date yesterday. The man who was yelling at you, you know, and it was ridiculous. I was going to say, how did that go? Oh, my gosh. They, like, escorted him through the back and, like, you know, got him into the courtroom. Oh, we're saying that he was, uh, there were protecting essentially made it seem like they were protecting him from us, which, okay.

And then, you know, and then, you know, and then we knew he's going to plead not guilty. I mean, obviously. What was he charged with, do you know? Disorderly conduct. Okay. And that's $100 fine with an $85 surcharge and up to 10 days in jail. Even though he has so many violent charges, I don't understand anything. And I don't want to him to get punished.

I want him to learn. I want him to have to pay attention to what he's doing. I want him to have to get mental health. Do you think it's possible for everybody to learn, though? I think I want I want to think so I but it's I do too I wonder though whether or not my desire for that to be true and I you know again I have hope you know I mean we all have moments that change us this moment changed me I hope it changes him but even the way that he I mean he had the opportunity to say like not guilty and like look back and say something to all of us that showed up I mean he was not guilty and then you know the five police officers like escorted him out the back again and then it was like it was just it was such a scene I've been in the that courtroom several times for like minor things not several times I shouldn't say that three times um three actually my past two is several isn't it okay it's a few now I'm yeah a couple is two a few is three you've been in there a few times I was going to say now I'm going to have to Google the definition

of several I'll let you do that you know if I've been in there well there's never you know there's not that many cops and there's one cop in there was five you know it was just like it was a really odd display and even though the police chief and the the mayor of wife, they stand with me. I haven't heard from them. You know, and they definitely gave the appearance of protecting that man yesterday. And, you know, even in that video, if you watch it towards the end, I mean, he yells at me, yells at me, he yells at a bunch of, he gets towards the teens and that's when the police step in.

But the guy at the end of the video, the police officer has, he has a smirk on his face. Would you send me, would you text me that video? Because I would like to, I want to put that into the YouTube portion as well. So people can, I'm a huge fan of just, here it is. you know, look and decide for yourself. Peaceful. Peaceful. Peaceful.

Peaceful. Peaceful. Peaceful. Peaceful. Peaceful. Peaceful. Peaceful. Peaceful.

Peaceful. Peaceful. Peaceful. Peaceful. Peaceful. Peaceful. Peaceful. Peaceful.

Peaceful. Peaceful. He's full. Peaceful. Beesful. Yeah. It's a. So he came in just to just to do his plea?

Yeah. And then so they let him, you know, then. Oh, did they, what would be called? Did they judge? So he put it in the plea of not guilty. He has a lawyer. So then now they fight it in court? Yeah.

And his court dates in August. I think it's August 19th, I believe it was. But so we have to wait until August. But until then we'll be writing letters to the city court. And, you know, it's not that, again, it's not that because I'm mad at him. I just, this. can't go the way it looks like it's going to go. This can't just be ignored.

This man, his wife and children fled the state of Montana. We brought her a gift basket. I don't know how much you know about that part. I don't know anything about. What are you talking about? Oh, so we talked about it just in all my other interviews. Well, this, screw all those. I'm having, I got to say the F words.

I'm super sick. Oh, yeah. Like I said, this is the internet. Let a rip. But, so yeah, my friend, Micella. The day after it happened, because again, my social media just went, whoo. She, like, reached out and be funny because we knew he was getting hate because his name was circulating.

And so people were attacking him on the internet. And then we found out she was getting hate. And were they, I'm assuming he was there by himself. Hmm. I'm assuming he was there by himself. Yes. Yes. Yeah.

Because they have, I think, I believe three children. But so when we found out the people were attacking her, I was like, that's, especially as a woman, I was like, and especially a woman who's been in abusive relationships. I was like, she is not. him and so we've you know through a friend of a friend found out where she worked and just got like a little basket some wine bubble bubble stuff coffee card flowers and let her know that we were coming and when we got there the people at the front desk obviously knew what was going on and they were like we're like oh is she here and they were like we don't know we're like she she knows we're coming you know

they were trying to protect her which i thought was great because i get it you know and so we came and she came out and talked to us for a little bit and it was kind of hard it was very emotional both trying not to cry and everything. And we left and I didn't think I'd hear from her again, but she did reach out to me on Facebook and just let me know that, you know, what she didn't have the words when we saw each other, but she was so thankful and that, you know, she was going to go stay with her family in another state with the kids.

And, you know, and I just wish she all the best. And, you know, I was like, obviously I'm sure I can't be much of a support to you, especially because I'm not at, you know, your husband and I are not. It's a complicated dynamic for sure. But I was like, if there's anything you ever need, and just so, you know, I don't see you in him, you know.

And so it was a really cool thing that we did. And the kind of, you know, again, I'm always trying to bring the beauty into situations. And so it worked out really well. I don't know if a lot of people would have the grace that you have in dealing with that. And you see it often. Again, with that, the vocal people, instead of talking about people at an individual level, they make broad sweeping statements. And I have found almost every time that I have made one of those or I hear them being made,

they are relatively and largely inaccurate. Right. Yeah. I sit back and I watch what's happening in the country still right now. I mean, I don't know what to do. I don't, I'm at a loss. Yeah. And, you know, especially because I guess like, you know, the ignorant part of my brain

when all this started happening with, you know, again, just the boom, boom, boom of the three deaths. I kind of thought that things would change a little differently. Now we've got, you know, five black men that have been. lynched around the U.S. We have all these people getting murdered still. And now it's just everywhere. And it's like, wait, I thought this would do it the other thing.

So it is a little exhausting, you know, trying to see like why these things are, they're being brought to light and they're still happening. Like, why? And what do you do? What do you do? And again, I know it starts, I know that I have to hold space for myself and for my brothers and sisters of color and just, you know, keep doing the work here and in my community so that it will, hopefully the ripple effect will happen.

I was just going to say the same thing, the ripple effect. Yeah. So, I mean, yeah, what the answer is for that, I wish I had. I wish I could be like, I know how to fix this. And, you know, I don't know if I'll ever have any concrete answer to that. If somebody, like, got onto a public stage and said, I know how to fix this. I probably would not pay attention to them. I would probably, yeah, I would just wait.

And it would be crickets because there isn't. Do you really? Right. There's not a specific answer. We're not talking about just the United States. We're talking about the 8 billion people in the world who are going through this. And how do we fix that? That's crazy.

And then that's where the hopelessness feeling comes from, though, because you're thinking about all the people, you know, and that's why it has to start with you, noticing the areas where you need to make change and be better in starting that. And then again, and then in your communities and your families. And again, hopefully that ripple effect starts happening. And hopefully people will just slow down a little bit and just take the time to learn a little bit more about something that they're uncomfortable about. Where would you start people if they have if they recognize in themselves the desire to do that? Where would you recommend people start? I mean again in my community come talk to me.

Reach out to a person of color. Yeah. You know, I will talk to anybody. You know, I'll talk to anybody. And even if they just want to yell at me, I wouldn't. I wouldn't let them yell at me, but it's like I would listen and so that they could see me still being able to do what I can do. You know, so start reaching out to people you're uncomfortable with. Talk to your family. Talk to your children. You know, make sure, even in this little bubble of

the valley, make sure your children are seeing people of color, whether it's in movies or children's books, dolls, G.I. Joe's, make sure that they're familiarized with it. So once they get older and those things eventually start coming up in their lives, they're prepared. You know, I don't know how much we can, how much, I don't say it delicately. You don't have to say it delicately. I know, but that's my message. I'm trying to be peaceful. I don't know how much the older generation is going to respond to this.

I don't know how well. So my, in my mind, I want to have the conversations with them, but my focus is on the younger generation. I want to see, and that's where the change is going to come. everywhere. And again, to round it back to, you know, police reform is going to come, however it ends up looking, and hopefully that there are experts that have ideas, but it will start as the newer generation starts coming through the academy. Right. Yeah.

Which will take time, you know, to hopefully find. And breaking the cycles down and the, you know, because the younger generation, you know, we're going to, there's going to be a lot of that. But I, and again, doing it from a place of peace. It's really easy to attack and get triggered and then respond out of that. So remembering that we're all different and we're all different places. And, you know, it's not always personal. People just suck sometimes. You just said, I think, one of the truest things ever to be said, people suck sometimes. I mean, it's people suck. Yeah. I'm sure I've had plenty of moments in my life where I suck. But, you know, the argumentative, yelling.

fiery interactions. I just see that as being completely futile. When it comes to change, it might, it might make that person feel like I did my, I defended fill in the blank. Yeah. But you're not gonna,

have you ever had your mind change from somebody yelling at you? Yeah. I mean, pose that question to literally anyone. Yeah. Is somebody screaming at you? You're like, oh,

thank you for just correcting my, you know what? It wasn't until you screamed in my face that I actually reconsidered my, open my position. Yeah. It's pointless. And you can apply that to the social media world too.

Oh, my goodness. You want to talk about a dumpster fire of communication in society. Holy shit. Well, and I, like, was, I mean, I'm on social media, like, a little bit, not much, though, until recently. So it's, like, hard not to get sucked into all that shit. What people say? And it's like, what the fuck? You just said that?

Like, you're with your face. And now people can, you know, and it's like, oh. And I'm like, I want to not fight. everyone, but, like, respond to, like, everyone who's wrong in my opinion. And then I'm like, but they won't listen. Yeah. They don't, they don't care. Yeah, I think most people come to social media. Again, it's, it's the view of, you know, social media is for me to tell you what I think, right, as opposed to this is an ecosystem of ideas. Yeah. And let's let the best one win out, but that requires conversation, thought, which is way more difficult than typing in, fuck you.

with like whatever. Yeah, like the fistimoshi emoji or whatever. Yeah, it's, it's not easy. It's not easy for sure. In the valley,

let's just talk specifically in the valley. What would be the first change you think you would make if you could make one? Samantha's queen for a day. She just must do asleep. The first change I would make in the valley. Again, it goes back to the younger generation for me.

It really is about getting people of color. And I didn't, you know, as a child in the school district, I went from, you know, kindergarten through K, or senior year, in the Whiteford School District. And they just touched on the same things every year. And you never were left wanting more. There was no emotion when we talked about people of color. We just kind of, you went through the curriculum and it was done.

And I, you know, I think for me, and going deeper, because we're talking about black lives, I'm African-American, even native people. I mean, we need people of color in our schools. We need to, that generation needs to see and hear not only about people of color

from people of color, but people call it of color's experience. You know, it gives it when you talk to somebody and you hear somebody's like actual experience, it makes it real. Yeah. You know,

if my mother is telling you about Martin Luther King, my white mother, and I'm telling you about Martin Luther King, what do you think, I mean, who do you think you're going to, feel something from. It's not just words to me.

Yeah. You know, that picture of him, you know, walking on Bloody Sunday, people, you know, everyone likes to use that picture and it's like, oh, what a great moment. We forget what happened after those photos were taken. So it really is the education aspect for me. It's really getting in and explaining more, going deeper. And I don't like a bunch of kids going home crying and being uncomfortable. I'm like, why does this happen?

But at the same time, going home and educate, you just how you're going to educate your parents, you know, coming home and being like, I saw this. We talked about this today. Why did that happen? Why haven't we been told about this? You know, stop making it pretty for everything.

It's just time to get uncomfortable. I think that's where growth comes at an individual level. Yeah. And if you can get a bunch of individuals willing to go and do work and get uncomfortable, I think that's how you can evolve as a community. Yeah. And then, you know, we're talking about the ripple effect, hopefully.

Yeah. When you came back to the valley and you realized it was the same, or you felt that, you know, the same thing as when you had been here previously. Did you think about leaving again? Did you want to go back to places where, you know, like, you know, not San Diego, but California. And I'm not even going to call where you were Tahoe. You were in Nevada.

Oh, my God. Whatever. So the California, Nevada border or Hawaii. Did you feel the desire to go back? And what was it that got you to say, no, I'm not going to. I'm going to stay? well again this is home like this is home base i definitely still want to travel and see the world and do as i believe everybody should by the way yes um and i you know what made me stay really is i really miss

being close to the people that i loved the connection however to say that you know those three years i was just quietly dealing with things no i was very drunk for like three years straight and just kind of suppressing every every time i was like trying to my you know real same Sammy was trying to like speak up. I was like, mm, wine, tequila,

party, party, party. Like, you know. First off, that's a horrendous pairing. What you just, don't do wine and tequila. That's going to suck the next day. I'm a professional.

You might be a professional, but damn. I mean, at least go like a nice iced chardonnay and tequila. Don't go red. Oh, shardinet. Ew.

Have you ever had a charanet with ice in it? I mean, I always put ice in my wine, but I'm shard- Even in red? I put, sometimes I do put, put like just a cube depending on like where the wine has been you are at your next level

maybe perhaps one of my passions is being a somalier which i have no experience in whatsoever but i do wine reviews sometimes but i've never heard of putting ice in red wine again it's just a cube for what though to like water sometimes like depending on where the wine has been stored it's like too warm like it's just like oh that's i just pair that wine with the garbage disposal Yeah. But yeah, so I, you know, and again, you know, and I was real with those girls last night. I, you know, I suppressed. I had my advice. You know, I self-harm for years, this cut here, I did that last year after being beaten by my ex and, like, watched like my guts come out of my arm, you know, and I, like, watching and do that. And I was like, why am I doing this? Like, why am. And I was, and I was, and I now I know it's just because. because I've never given myself the grace to be. And that makes me do stupid shit. And that's just the realness of it.

I am not perfect. I have a past. I have done so many things the incorrect way. But I finally feel, and now that I've been doing all this talking and all of this, I'm still working with my therapist and all that stuff, but now that I'm talking for me, speaking from self, speaking from my heart, I haven't even even though I'm so exhausted I still go to bed with a smile on my face

and I'm so fucking proud of myself I've never been able to say that in my whole life that's awesome that's such an amazing and a powerful place to arrive yeah um I wasn't there you're 27 right yeah I wasn't there when I was 27 I thought I was but you know I'm well my driver's license says I'm 42 I don't act like it

but you know it I'm going to say, you know, we all have the past. We all have places where we've fallen short. I get some amazing regrets in my life that I'll try to make amends for for the rest of my life. But giving yourself that grace, yeah. I've been, I see a counselor once a week. Good. And you brought it up earlier.

I think you said it, you know, people think that, you know, asking for help is a sign of weakness. It's one of the strongest things I think you can do is to say I need, or, you know, this isn't working anymore. Even or even just get an objective third party view on yourself. Seriously. Because if you were to ask me in my mid-20s, like, hey, Andy, how you're doing? I'm like, fucking awesome. Living my best life.

I'm the best Andy that I could be. No. No. No. I was a shit show. I loved my job. I loved where I was with my family. I was doing the stuff that I wanted to do.

But I was stuffing a lot of stuff too, work-related stuff. It's a, the guy I just had come up, we were talking about how dangerous it is to pack and stuff away and the value that comes from addressing things head on, dealing with it. And by the way, for people listening, that doesn't mean it's going to be pretty. No, it's really fucking hard sometimes. But then at the end of it, when you're like, huh, and like I'm still safe and we made it through that and now we're closer and better. I mean, have you ever had that feeling where it literally feels like weight is off your shoulders? Oh, yeah, 100%. Hard to describe that until you unpack some stuff that has been weighing you down.

Yeah, the value in doing that. I spend probably too much time thinking about what the next six months will look like or the next year. Because I do think that as a country, people, I mean, you can see it. They're demanding change. And what I hope everybody is ready for, and I think we've talked about this today, is that it's not overnight. No. And there's going to be some horrendous shit that happens between when we arrive at that change. and where we are now.

It's going to be uncomfortable. And that's putting it lightly. And I mean, like even, you know, George Floyd is not going to be the last situation like that that happens. He hasn't been. But I hope that we don't burn the fucking country to the ground and our desire to arrive where I think most people would say, hey, this is the direction that we need to go. And I don't want to burn the country to the ground, but sometimes you got to set shit on fire

to, for the new to grow. You know, there's, you know. I'm good with that metaphorically. I don't, you know, and so this, you know, from sitting back, I watch what's happening on TV. I understand the anger and frustration. I get, I personally get a touch lost when people destroy the neighborhoods that they live in. Right. And that one I don't, I don't get that.

And, you know, especially like the, the LUD, you know, even the CEO of Target was like, we're good, you know. So that kind of shit. They have what's called insurance. Right. But like going into Harlem and burning down. a black community. Yeah, I don't get that.

That's not okay. That is not getting any sort of point across. And you just ruined somebody's livelihood. You just made somebody's life harder. And that is what we have to try to avoid. I am not a violent person. Yeah. You know, and I, you know, where I stand with the looting and all that, you know, obviously

I wouldn't do it. Yeah. But I know why they're doing it. I can understand how they feel. I don't understand how theft solves any problems. No. But again, I can understand the anger and frustration. and I wouldn't do it either.

I don't see it. I actually see it as being hugely negative to the overall cause. Right, because the thing is. But also, most people I don't think are, again, it's majority getting the bat. Yeah. It's the majority getting the attention. I don't think that most people want any part in that shit. Right.

Even when we had the callousal protests a couple weeks ago and all these men showed up with guns. We are peacefully protesting. Like, what the fuck did you bring guns here for? I don't, I am fine. with guns, you know, people have them. I'm from Montana, like, whatever. I've been around. You get a ticket here if you don't have guns.

I don't have guns. Oh, you better not drive. They'll be like, man, where's your gun? Here's your citation. I'm black. That's not going to happen. They're going to search me for a gun. Okay.

Yeah. Okay. Sorry. Yeah, I get it. How has your experience been with law enforcement? It's been a uphill battle. I know. I've just always been treated differently.

As if, well, how would you describe it? It's just very ignorant and unfortunately. And in Calisville, a police I can't speak for. I haven't had really any issues with them. The Whitefish Police. And the White Fish Police is a very small department. Very small and it's very interconnected.

You know, it's fathers and their sons. It's families. It's been in their family. I didn't know that. Oh, interesting. Okay. Generational lineage, I guess, would be the... Yeah.

Yeah. So, I mean, like my high school research officer, who just like basically made my life hell. And I was a straight-A student. I was like super fucking smart. And just came to school, did my shit. I think I skipped school like twice. And I was like having a panic attack the whole time.

Yeah, I know. I know. I have to skip school twice in the same day. I don't even know how it's possible. I didn't talk. I got in trouble when I was, this is a total side note. When I was in high school,

so my birthday is in October. So I was right at the threshold. And my parents were like, let's start them early in school. And they're like, let's go ahead and pull him out of school and have him repeat a grade. So I was 18, my senior year in high school. My brothers, all my brothers and I.

My parents signed a permission slip that allowed me to write my own get out of school notes. Oh, my God, I wish my parents had. My parents were like, don't leave campus for lunch. Well, I had an open to campus too. And it's just, I'd be like, Andy has a doctor's appointment signed Andy. And yeah, let's just say my GPA reflected it. I was a badass student. I was not a badass student.

And I got, I just got shit all the time. I was always, you know, I was somehow always connected to things that were happening. And I'm like, it wasn't even there. Just kind of pecking at you. Yeah. And so. Yeah. And I have, again, I, you know, unfortunately have made decisions where the cops had got involved.

I've been pulled over for not having insurance. But the way that it was handled, you know, I've been, you know, taken out of my car for something like that. Yeah. Again, I can't speak to any of that. I don't know law enforcement protocol, but I mean, I believe you. Yeah. I mean, again, it's in even sitting down, like I said, I'm a little, you know, Bill Diles, the police chief of wife said that he stands with me. He has not talked to me during this whole

experience, has been in contact with Jay Snowden the whole time. He was interviewed by the Missoulean for the same article that I wasn't in the Missoulean. And, you know, he said that, you know, that they reached out to me and I wasn't ready to accept an apology from Jay Snowden. And that's not true. What I said was, I will sit down when Jay Snowden, when he's, he's ready to be honest about the scenario because he's just made a mockery. I mean, when that video came out in that picture, he posted on his Facebook my eight minutes of fame. Wow.

And that made me. That says a lot. Just the title, even if he had just posted that absent any other, like fuck whatever narrative he could write, but to write. I mean, just, I mean, I'm not going to. Maybe infamy, you. I don't know if that's the type. I wouldn't call that being, maybe famous for being a fucking ass.

Yeah. And it was just like, yeah, until that man actually wants to sit down and have a conversation with a person of a woman of color and be respectful, I'm not going to give, I'm not going to accept a half-assed apology. I'm not going to do that. That's not going to make me feel good. It's going to piss me off. Just, you know, so if he ever wanted to get real and, and even if he didn't want to apologize, if he wanted to tell me why he was so pissed and we could talk, I would be so down. I'd be so down. You think he actually even knows why he was so pissed? Well, I mean, alcohol. If he. If he was. I mean, alcohol, if you. feeling any sort of anger. That's right. You said, yeah, yeah, tell you what, that, I don't know, I know a lot of people. I don't know a single one that gets smarter with the ingestion of alcohol. No. And I've tried it. I've tried every version possible to try to increase my IQ with booze.

No. I feel smarter sometimes, though. I think I sound smarter. Then I like, hear myself and I'm like, isn't that the worst? Isn't that the worst? Yeah. Yeah. I this might sound dumb coming for me but I'm I am so proud of you for standing your ground

yeah and not backing down to that man thank you because like I said that picture to me is the best of what we can be not only as this country but as a human species and I hope people can see it I'll put that picture up a couple of times in the in the video people need to see it it's a powerful picture It's, I don't think very often you can see, in my opinion, I can speak for myself, that much wrong and that much right. And it's an example and a lesson for everybody else. So thank you for doing that. Yeah. And I mean, the thing about that photo, you know, we have to acknowledge that that was taken in 2020. Yeah.

That looks like a civil rights movement photo. Well, they weren't wearing COVID masks. Oh my God. Fair enough. Yeah. I mean. But it's just, it's time for the country. to acknowledge we haven't gone as far forward as we'd like to think so.

You know, I think we have in some areas, but I, we're in a bubble. That I was, you know, and, and, uh, I'm not trying to diminish what you said at all. I think some areas, what I mean is some areas of the country have gone farther than others. Definitely. I just don't think we're in the year 2020, the fact that we're still having to stand on street corners and still having to protest peacefully, still having to rally for these same things that, you know, grandparents and my, me not my parents and I don't mean that rude mom I just you didn't um but grandparents that

went out there and we're doing it so that we didn't have to so that I didn't have to yeah and now I have to do it so that hopefully your kiddos don't have to you know what I mean that was my fear with my military service is that I would start something that my kids would have to finish it was one of the biggest things that I was and uh you know if they're my my oldest son is two years away from being he has expressed none of my kids have expressed any desire which I would support them if they did. But inside, I'd be just terrified. But if my oldest son joined in two years, you would have to.

It's, you know, fighting ideologies probably will probably be doing it as long as we are a species that survives. I don't know if we'll ever get to where I think we should be or what we need to be. Like I said, to me, the fact that we have to say, pick Native American Lives Matter, Black Lives, The fact that we have to point out one subsection of the human species.

And that it's important to say that is fucking baffling to me. It is. I mean, you know, and then when people are like, oh, lives matter, I'm like, I obviously fucking know that. When I see Black Lives Matter, I'm not saying you don't. I'm just asking you to understand that I don't feel like you treat me equally. And I want to feel equal. And we don't feel equal.

The system is, this country was not set up to protect people of color. It was built off the backs of people of color. And yes, I... As were many nations. Yeah. So I'm just saying you can't deny the reality of the situation. And I know it's uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable for everyone involved.

But... You know what the most uncomfortable part I think is? Just starting the conversation. It is. It is really hard. This is, like I said, you know, I've done this, you know, I've been doing like two or three interviews a day for the last... Oh, you're fried.

You're fried. But, you know, I mean, but the conversations evolved as I've gotten more comfortable, but then it's been able to, you know, have the uncomfortable conversations. You know, they started off like, little smidgets of people being like, wow, we're so proud of you. And I was like, dope, thanks. And then it was just like, you know, why did you do that? And it was like, oh, let's talk about it. And then it was like, oh, no, now who was your dad, this great man? It was like, sort of, yes, sometimes, you know.

And so it's just like the conversation has evolved. And the more uncomfortable it gets, the better I feel after because it's like, I would rather leave. even impression than to just be the sweet girl who stood up to the man in the photo. Whatever your impression is. The more uncomfortable that it is, I think the more impactful that it will be. Yeah. I don't remember if I mean, think back over your life too. Do you remember that much of the comfortable stuff?

Because I certainly remember the uncomfortable. All my life has been uncomfortable. Okay. So you, you know, and again, mine hasn't been all roses by any stretch either. But, you know, the things that I haven't bled and sweat for, I don't value them as much. Yeah. And it's like, I can remember, I can remember things I think better that hurt or stung. Yeah.

Then, oh, man, I felt awesome to sit on the beach and my hammock. Right. Totally. What I remember is I jumped off and stepped on top of a freaking seashell and like jammed it into the bottom. You're like, it's out of a bitch. But that sticks out of my head. You're like, oh, that's right.

The rest of the day was kind of awesome. Right. Right. But that's a starting moment leaves a mark. Yeah. I'm glad to hear that you're, that that picture. picture will be the beginning for you. Yeah. And not the end. What, I know you're trying to figure out your path, but for people who want to support you on that path, do you have anything, anywhere

that they could land with their support, whether it even just be reach out to talk to you? Yeah, reach out to talk to me. You know, we are still protesting Tuesdays and Thursdays and Thursdays and Columbia Falls. We're planning a solidarity march from Whitefish to Columbia Falls, just something peaceful. Everything that I'm going to do is going to be coming from a place of peace. You're going to walk from whitefish to Columbia Falls? It's like 9.6 miles. I'm just saying pack of lunch is all.

And they'll like a lot of water. Yeah. I'm all about my water. So there's things like that. So, you know, but we all have a part of that. That is a person.

Are you going to have, for people who are hearing you talk and they want to either learn more or do more that don't live in the valley. Where would you point them? Again, reaching out to people in your community. There's protests in every, you know,

state going on. It seems like it. I haven't checked them all, but it certainly sounds like. Yeah. So it's like, you'll get out and support, just go support black voices, you know, support your black businesses. You know, there's not, it's a little hard around here, but they're there and support their people of color. You know, Indusushi, downtown whitefish did, and that were 10% of all their proceeds went to the Black Lives Matter movement. So just, you know, things like that, you know, they're happening all over the world.

But yeah, support your black businesses, you know, support your black communities. go meet people of color. And I mean, people around the world, you're like, yeah, we have friends of color. Like, I get that. So I'm really talking to my community. But, you know, just start doing the uncomfortable things. Start making connections. You know, I have connections with people I would have never have had now.

I have friends that I don't think I would have ever had if I hadn't done this. It was just so awesome. So just doing things like that, little steps. You know, again, educating yourself. Pick up a fucking book. There's plenty out there. white, read white fragility. Like, you know, just do the thing.

Can it be an e-book? Yes. I'm just saying it's 20-20. Can I read, you say pick up a book? I'm like, I have an iPad. Pick up your tablet. Pick up your phone. I don't care.

I don't support reading on a phone. Oh, my God. No, well, wait till you're my age. You'd be sitting there like, like, to her, to he. Okay. So depending on your age range, whatever you have. I think it's just too hard to read on a damn phone. Get it, you know, iPad, delightful.

Well, I can't. I like Apple products people. They don't pay me to say that. But like Apple, if you want to, you know, it's not a deal. They could get me about it. No, also me. Seriously. I don't, I don't know if I trust people who use Android's.

I don't. I mean, I think they're good people, but I just like suspicious. Yeah, I agree. I agree. See? But, yeah, so just really, I mean, yeah, the first step is just, I mean, conversation. Reach out. Reach out, you know, again, I would talk to anyone.

I, you know, I think, well, myself personally, I like to go directly at things that make me uncomfortable. And I think it's so valuable. And that's what, I mean, again, to add to what you're saying, I would encourage people to have conversations that they think are uncomfortable. Yeah. And objectively look at yourself, whether you're going to examine your bias or belief or, I mean, I think both of those are actually valuable throughout the course of a life. Yeah.

Don't wait for a national incident for you to sit down and question. Why do I believe this? Why do I think this? To me, that's my favorite question is why. Yeah, and it's hard. Yeah, except for when it's like, why do you like ice cream? It's like, because it's fucking delicious. That one's an easy one.

It's so cold, though. I appreciate you taking the time to meet me. And. Thank you. My, absolutely my pleasure. As soon as Thomas reached out, I was like, oh, my God, that would be amazing. I would love to talk to this woman. That's so cool.

So, well, let's talk against him. That's fine. I keep doing that. I'm like not used to this. In like two weeks. The next time you come back. back here, we'll have the full studio. This is the last podcast I'm going to record in here before the actual buildup begins.

Like I've got all like the pieces and stuff. Yeah. But I need some other stuff. Yeah. I got a nice table being made out of wood from where I live. It's going to be amazing. Awesome. And we'll come back and let's circle back again for sure.

Please. I have a guest coming on named Remy Adelecki. He was a black seal that I actually put through training. He's going to be coming on in a few weeks. Oh my gosh. Yeah, I'll let you know when he's coming. I'm sure he'd be, he'd love to talk to you.

That would be amazing. Cool. He wrote a killer book too. I'll save it because that's an episode coming out. But his story is awesome. Thank you so much for taking the time. You get to decide how we close the episode. What would you like to say?

Profound thoughts from Samantha. You know, my message really right now is I do have hope. I do have hope. And I really do believe the wheels are turning. and I would just ask people to get uncomfortable with me. It's time and, you know, we can heal together. And we're all better together. We are better.

We can get more done together. So, you know, stand with me, support us. But change is coming. And I hope that you want, I hope that people are called to be on the right side of history for this time. I have hope too. It's not going to be easy, but I have hope. Sometimes I feel like I shouldn't. And then I say, don't be an idiot.

Yes. Have hope. Yeah. Thank you again for taking the time. Thank you.