Cleared Hot - Powered By BRCC - Episode 144 - Suresh Madhaven Part 1

Episode Date: September 7, 2020

In an age where it may seem impossible, how does a fatherless black man grow up to become a police officer, with multiple degrees, then move on to creating a successful company and worldwide brand?    Enter Suresh Madhaven, who spent 13 years as a police officer before founding 221Btactical, an organization that specializes in developing equipment for the LEO/first responder community. 

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free shipping at dollar shave club.com slash cleared hot that is dollar shave club dot com slash cleared hot welcome to the club everybody my guest today is seresh madhaven i know right coolest name ever way better than Andy Stumpf. I'm going to tell you that much right now. But I digress. Suresh is a fascinating human being. His experience blew me away. I don't know how else to describe that. This was the longest podcast I have ever recorded, which is why I cut it into two. I feel like four plus hours is probably too much in one shot. But we filled that four plus hours. We talked about a lot of stuff. Suresh was a police officer for 13 years. but his path to becoming a police officer, I am going to describe as atypical.

Well, maybe not the path to becoming a police officer, but where he was hired was certainly for that department groundbreaking. And I won't get any deeper into that because we talk about it during the podcast. We talk about where his family is from, where he grew up on the East Coast. His experience as a man of color in this country, as a man of color in law enforcement. and his insight and opinion as to the things that are happening in the world right now. Through the lens of not only law enforcement, but like I said, somebody who has a perspective that I don't think most of us ever take the time to think about because we don't really experience it on a day-to-day level. In addition to his past in the law enforcement world, he is the founder and CEO of 221B, as in Bravo, Tactical. an organization that makes equipment for the law enforcement first responder world.

And on that note, I'm going to shut up and let Suresh speak for himself. Episode 144, Suresh Madhaven, Part 1. Enjoy. To the smoke, I'm looking at danger close now. We could do this fucking podcast about Apple. Oh, my God. I look at all the Apple boxes in my house. I'm like, I'm probably keeping the lights on in that place. Why do you keep the boxes?

I say I'm going to keep them just so until that period of when it works and whatever. So I'm like, I'm just going to keep it for like a month, just in case it blows up or something. You've got to give them credit. What would that be? It's a packaging branding. It is lights out. I love the experience, and they design it to love the experience of pulling an Apple product out. And for those Android's out there, users out there, fuck you.

Yeah. That's how I go with that. I don't know who, like, I'm like, who, who, like, when a text message comes up and it's green. Yeah. And I'm like, spam. What is, who are you? Who are you? I actually, a couple podcasts ago, I was talking shit on Android users.

Jokingly, they apparently don't have a sense of humor. Because I got a few notes of go fuck yourself. Oh my God. Which I can kind of appreciate. Yeah. Seriously. That's like, that's another thing. That's today's culture, right?

It is. I think they were, well, hopefully, I mean, sarcasm is my primary weapon system. So hopefully people can tell that I was laying it on. I take their feedback as sarcasm, too. Except for the one guy who literally wrote me a three-pageer on how Android is better because it's open-ended. I was just like, get the fuck out of here. Please. Please. You have too much time on your hands. Yeah. So you do, so I've been looking at it. So I had, you know, of course I had my iPhone and I had my Macs.

Yeah. Which I have the same. And that's why I wonder on an iPad, I've had them in the past, it has been for me a nice to have, it never actually filled a gap anywhere. It was never a need to have, which don't get me wrong, it didn't stop me from buying it. But I've actually, and you're the second person I've asked about this, you responded the same way that you love it. I love it.

I had to go into a transition. My MacBook Pro, I got like in 2012. and it finally got to the point where it was not performing. And I was doing videos. I was like, this is getting to the point. I'm surprised it lasted that long. I got to tell you, if I was on a PC, it was like every two years I was getting a new PC. There was, you know, virus, something was going on, whatever.

So back in 2012, my buddy who is way smarter than me and is one of the smartest dudes I know, I was like, hey, you know, you're a computer guy. He's like, get a Mac. I'm like, okay, well, you're smart, so I'm going to say I'm going to get a Mac. So I got it. I loved it. And I got an iPad and, you know, at some point because I just wanted one. I was like, yeah, oh, iPad Air, cool.

I want. Like I said, it's a want, not a need. I don't even know where that fucking thing is right now. Like, I don't even... My kids have all the ones I've ever bought. Yeah. It's literally a small TV. Yeah, yeah.

It's like the babysitter, right? It's a Netflix portal. Yeah, that's it. Like, a really expensive one. Yeah. So, I don't know where that thing was. So I was just using the Mac. And then as I started doing more video editing for the business and stuff,

that screen... And, like, I'm getting older. so that screen was just not big enough. So I got a monitor that connected to it. So I'd work off the thing and then it would mirror or whatever. Essentially two monitors. I've been down this path many times. I know exactly what you're talking about.

I got it. And it helps. It did. It did help. But then I found myself where it was wired into the monitor. So it was a little bit of a process to ever disconnect it from the monitor. So my laptop essentially became a desk. And it never left my desk.

And when there was a time where I needed to like do something somewhere else, I'm like, oh, maybe I just want to write a blog, but I want to do it out on the back deck and whatever. I was like, oh, I don't want to take this thing apart. So I would like... And the iPhone is not acceptable. Well, no phone is acceptable for writing a blog post or stuff. Yeah. Right.

And I just was like, I mean, when I got the phone, I was like, you know, I went in. They're like, well, which one do you want? I'm like, I want the biggest one possible because, you know, for pictures and stuff like that. So I had, you know, I always had the phone. and then when it came time when the thing was dying out my Macbook I went to my buddy again and he's like have you ever thought about the IMac I'm like a what he's like the I Mac like the big monitor behind the there you go I didn't I didn't see it yeah I'm like really he's like he's like when's the last time you took your laptop off your

desk I'm like 2017 he's like so you have a desktop I said Yeah, he's like, get an iMac. You're doing video editing. You're doing some high speed stuff. He's like, and he's like, and you are using another monitor anyway. It's good to have friends like this, by the way. Yeah. Can unfuck you?

Yeah, I was like, oh. I was like, man, you're making a lot of sense right now. All right. He's like, because I was looking at a new MacBook Pro. So he's like, right. So I just got it about two weeks ago. I love it. But what it made me do was this, which I had, which one,

once again started like collecting dust a little bit. I just got the once I got it. Yeah. The laptop is now pretty much decommissioned. And now this has become my laptop. Is it serving? Is it accurate or not even an accurate? Is it a replacement truly for a laptop?

Well, I had the MacBook Pro from 2012. So this thing made. So an iPhone would be a replacement for that. Yeah, that thing was like, like a Star Tech phone would have been a replacement. So what I did was kind of that kind of got decommissioned. And I started actually using this more as my mobile thing because taking that on an airplane and whatever. And now this is always with me.

I take it if I go out, I throw it in my pickup. Because if I'm sitting somewhere waiting, I don't need to like be sitting. I'm like, sometimes I find myself like searching for something. I'm like, what am I doing? I have this right here. So I've been transitioning more and more. And you can search fat just because it's. It's bigger.

It has a full keyboard that flips out, you know, the whole thing. It stands up. So it's actually, when you're reading stuff, it's really nice to read stuff on it because it's like, once again, like, you know, I'm not ancient, but like it's nicer not to be like this reading like, you know, a post where you have this. So I've started using this a lot more since I got my IMAC and I don't even, this is my laptop and I don't even, I could do some basic editing on here and transfer everything right there.

picture type stuff. Yeah. Some basic video if you needed to. Basic video, you know, I got that Final Cut Pro. Yep, that's what I use as well. Yeah, and it's awesome. I know there's an app for this that's really good, LumaFusion. It's really good, but I just don't want to start using two different ones, so I kind of, if I want to learn something, I want to learn it and I want to learn it inside out.

I don't want to try to learn this, and I'm like, come on, let me, I don't have that much bandwidth, so. Has it fallen short for you anywhere? Because that's what I worry about is there's a gap. is there's a gap. It hasn't. No, it hasn't. If anything, it's made me more efficient. Because it has like the thing, I don't know if you know,

you could actually like work in multiple windows at the same time and move things out of the way and bring things in and drag pictures right into emails. Really? Oh, man. So I, you know, on YouTube where like the world learns everything. It's the world's library. Oh, my God.

First of all, if YouTube existed when I was a kid, Oh, no. Yeah. Forget about it. How do you burn this? How do you blow up that? Yeah, it would, my Google YouTube search would be, I'm just glad it didn't exist. I almost am.

I almost am too, because we figured stuff out and it was scary enough. I can't imagine having the handbook. We figured it out and failed because we were idiots and didn't know what we were doing. Yeah. Because of the lack of information. Yeah, imagine all the dumb things that I wanted to do, and I had a step by step, tutorial explaining to me how to make a explosive rocket in my backyard. Like, I don't need any of that.

No. Because we would have made it. We would have made it. Wow. Okay, so you're a fan of it. You know, that's the second person. I'm going to need to expand. Actually, I got a guy staying at my house right now, who is, he was the other guy that I

asked. I need to find a couple of the people that use it because it's trending towards, at least for a mobile solution, like you said, in the car, in the glove box. Maybe not the globe box. I don't know if that's a acceptable solution. And by the way, disclaimer people, this isn't an Apple advertisement. We're going to talk about other stuff. Apple has not contributed a damn dime to this.

It's actually been the other direction. I contribute money to their charitable causes if they choose to take my retail purchases and direct it. Yeah. Well, you have podcast notes on your iPad. Where would you like to start? First off, we should start with your name. Oh, yeah. It's not like John Smith.

It's not at all. Suresh Madhaven. Suresh Madhaven. It's a solid name. You know, not as a kid. Not as a kid. This is probably very true. Yeah.

But now I've grown to, now I've grown. People now, when you're older, adults are like, are like, Madhaven. Wow, that's a strong name. When you're a kid, no one says, oh, that's a strong name. People are like, what the f? Yeah. No, now older people are like,

Man, that's you're a renaissance man. Like you're sophisticated because of your last name, as if you had a choice in it, really. No. Yeah. Yeah. I cursed my mom daily. Yeah. Daily.

Well, first of, I'm glad that we're here. Thank you for reaching out. I'm very, I mean, I'm sure we'll go down a variety of paths, but thankfully you took the time to get here. Yeah. Interesting times when it comes to travel. But I think your insight is it's something that I don't think a lot of people necessarily have access to. And I think that sucks. Yeah.

I don't have anybody here that I can talk to that has the background that you have. I have other people who are LEO. They all look like me, though. And this valley is not culturally diverse. It's really not. And I don't know, I don't think people really avoid that topic at all, but at the same time, they don't bring it up very often. It's from a statistical perspective, not very diverse.

That's just the way that it is right now. So, you know, your lens on life and your experiences, I'm interested to hear him for sure. Yeah. I got to tell you, the people here have been very friendly, very open. I haven't sensed any kind of, you know, grown up looking like me, you get very keen to when people, you know, aren't too much of a fan. Yeah, not a fan of you. I haven't felt any of that here.

And, you know, last time I was out here a couple years ago, I was in and out. and I didn't, you know, once again, I didn't feel it, you know. So it's funny, I was texting with a friend and just two days ago. And I'm like, yeah, you know, I'm heading out to Montana. And they're like, Montana, that's a red state, you better be careful. Literally, literally, I'll show you the message later. As if every single person in any state that would either be red or blue is going to fall into a stereotype associated with that. Right, right.

And I was like, every single one. There's no, there's no, you know, individuals at all just, well. Everyone. Paint us with that red brush. Everyone. Like, I said, what do you think, like, I'm going to get off the plane and, like, in Hawaii, they put the layer over here. Like, what do you think they're going to put a maga hat on me when I come off the plane and be like, welcome? I said, no, it's like, I said, why would you say that?

Why would you say that? I said, that's part of the problem right now. It is. That's part of the problem. There's no middle ground. No. It's blue red or go fuck yourself. I mean, that's literally the option.

So, like, wow, okay. So it's basically pick your STD, blue or red. And the candidates are the same way. Which STD do you want? The system is broken. And now I'm talking completely my opinion, obviously. But I did a podcast about this the other day, too,

and people get twisted. And I'm like, they both suck. They both suck. Yep. Yeah. I've never been a politics guy. Neither have I. I've never been a politics guy.

I've never, I never go too deep into, politics, I never go too deep into religion. I never, I try to stay in that middle ground and always see both sides. Growing up, how I grew up, which we'll get into, and like, where I grew up, I kind of had to be like that, because I think that's a problem. You take that hardline stance one way or another, and you become cognitively blind to anything and everything that might counter what you're thinking, feeling, what side you're on. That's just not healthy, you know. Do you think people realize when they get to that spot? That's something that I think, so I feel the same way.

I feel, and I've said this often, I feel like I land in the middle on almost every issue. I believe in reasonable solutions. You know, is it possible? Is it reasonable? Is it pragmatic? Like, I'm all about those things. And I think most people are like that. And then if you turn on the news, it's what I see mostly is it gets farther to the left or to the right.

So whatever outlet you go to, if it's a blue outlet or red outlet, you're going to get like the extreme far end of that spectrum, which doesn't represent the people in the middle. No. But I think it fucks with your head if you're in the middle and that's all that you end up seeing. And do you think that people get to, do you think they realize that they're blind when they're in those spots? I don't. I don't think they do. I think they... Because I see people, as I'm sure that you do, it's just if you get into a conversation with them, within one...

sentence, if you disagree or say something counter, within one sentence, they're like, fuck you, Trump, you know what, like it's immediately down that path. Yeah. Which is not, I shouldn't say a conversation because that's not what it is, if that's their only path. No. And I, and I just wonder if they even realize they're so deep down the rabbit hole. I don't think they do. I think they, um, they've become so, like I said, cognitively blind to that belief that they literally, and I said this on Facebook Live a couple weeks ago, maybe a week ago, and I said, what happened to debate teams? Like when I was in high school, there was like debate teams, right? And like, little jackets. Yeah, yeah, maybe like a pin.

Like I would just find a pin that looked cool. And I don't know what it was. It was probably like a Halloween, you know, pumpkin. And you'd sit there and they'd give you a topic, right? And, Right? And your group of students had to come up with their argument. And then you'd go back and forth. There was a moderator. And so, okay, well, you guys made the better argument. You know, you guys are just cut. But at least at the end, everyone was like, well, you know, we gave it a shot and we saw both sides of it. High fives move on with your life. That's it. No, there was no mortal enemies created in that.

No. Have you seen the videos of, like, neighbors ripping out the political signs from the other, like their neighbor's yard. They're ripping it out. One of the best ones I saw, though, I'll have to find it. a guy hooked up a battery to the metal portion of his sign, crushed his neighbor. It was awesome. He caught the reaction. So that guy was a high-level fuckery. I totally support that.

But then there's other ones where they're like fistfights. It's like, hey, man, that's your neighbor. Right. It's okay to disagree. Like if your house lights on fire or their house somehow is on fire and they're screaming for help, are you telling me you're not going to help them because they have a different sign in their yard? Right. Well, that goes to police work.

Like, you can't, as a cop, like doctors or whatever, you can't look at someone based on the sign on their yard or the- You'd have to be apolitical. You've got to just do your job. You can't ever, like, I, you know, we'll get into it. But, like, I've been on calls where there's people who, I heard them say to the paramedics that they didn't want me in their house. because I showed up and the town I worked in and we'd get into it was, you know, had a bad history. And there was someone having a heart attack, heart attack. And paramedics showed up and, you know, the police always show up with the paramedics.

And this person didn't want me in their home. So I kind of had to wait. And I was like, wait a second. Like, I'm going to just do what I need to do. I don't care what this guy says. I could have just said, all right, screwy, man. I'm just go sit in the patrol car

and I'll wait until the rig shows up and, you know, whatever. But you can't do that. I didn't want to do that. It's crazy how, in a situation like that, like I thought about it after the fact, I'm like, wow, like, what if the paramedics were tied up? Like, I had, like, the defib.

I had the O2, like, I had my little patrol bag. You could have at least sustain them until a higher level care. Right. Like, you know, all we can do, you know, and this guy, I'm like, this guy would rather die than let a black guy into his house. It's like, what? Like, that's, like, it like blew my mind. Yeah. But that's, you know, so I'm never blind to the fact that that exists, because I know it exists, but you have to know how to navigate that. But to be in that position where someone has a sign on their lawn, that means they're the devil, they are racist, they're this, they're this, they're the, I'm like, when did we get to that? What happened

to the phrase, let's agree to disagree? What happened to that phrase? It doesn't exist anymore. Like, I remember back in the day where I'd have conversations with people, and we'd end up, well, let's just agree to disagree on that, and we'd move on. But now it's like, you're the devil, you're this, you're that. And I'm like, what? Like, how did we get here? As humans. I think, and this is a complete assumption in conjecture on my part, I think it's because we have it

so goddamn good. Oh, I'm so glad you said that. And we have the opportunity to sit around and act like assholes because life here. I've had the opportunity to travel. I don't know the breadth and depth. that you've had the opportunity to travel. I've been to, when I was in the military, let's just say we didn't hit the five star resorts.

All right, so I got to see some of the negative five star stuff. And I, like you're saying, you land here. It's fucking beautiful in this valley. I'm so appreciative. I actually, I talk to myself a lot. I don't know if that's an indication of mental health, but I'll be driving home and I will verbal, I'm like, I am so glad that I live here.

Yeah. And I, I mean, I'm not gonna come, And because of that, and because I feel so fortunate about the opportunities and the things that we have, I'm not, I could care less the sign that somebody has in their yard. I would get irritated if they were, like, spray painting my house or moving their signs into my yard. I'd be like, hey, man, I'm cool with you doing you, but like, here's the property line. Just you and you on your side, I'm never going to bother you. But there's no mortal enemy in that. No.

But people are soft. Yeah. and I you know I had this conversation I had I was in the car ride from somewhere when I was earlier and the driver was like you know so what do you think which was really ballsy I was like wow okay we're going there in an Uber and you know he was like a white kid he's like so what do you think like what do you what do you think is causing all this and I said Shout out to the crazy white kid going for it. Five stars on the conversation section.

Go for it. I was like, man. And it said, it said, loves conversations. I was like, I said, well, I'll be honest with you. I said, I think people, their lives are so uninteresting and they have no issues at all. They have to create an issue to make themselves feel whole. Like, I see some of these people at these riots. and I would bet a lot of money that most of these people have never felt the oppression that I felt,

have never felt racism of any kind like I've dealt with, but they were there in their life. There was no issues. They were just going through life and nothing was wrong. And that's a void for some people. So they have to say, and if you don't have a purpose or if you haven't found your purpose yet, I think that those issues can be very attractive to somebody who is a little bit of drift at sea. Yeah. Yeah. And then that's it. That's their purpose. They're going to hone in on that,

and that's what they're going to do. And, you know, I would love to grab some of these riders and just, just from a conversational perspective, like, what is it that you are rioting against? How are your actions directly related to the change that you want? Yeah. And what is it, is it exactly that you want changed? If they were able to give me those answers, for one, I have no tolerance for writing at all, because that's idiotic and it does nothing. It destroys the communities and the neighborhoods.

And if this, I'm hearing a lot, and I don't know how much of it is true, but basically tourism, riding at this point, people traveling around to get involved with the shit that aren't even, so they don't even live there and they're burning a place to the ground that they get to leave. That doesn't help anybody there.

But if a protester fully support the First Amendment, peaceful protest. And if they can answer those things, I mean, I'm totally on board with supporting that. Oh, totally. But just be able to tell me what it is that you believe and why.

And, you know, when you're 19 and you haven't, you haven't experienced, I would say, I mean, and I'm not telling 19-year-olds not to get involved,

but what I'm saying is, know what you're getting involved in. That's the only advice that I would give. I have no problem with people doing things that they're passionate, about and going headlong down that path, but just do us all the favor and have an understanding of what it is you're involved with. Know your mission and your objective. And how those two things are connected? Right. And like, how are your actions going to align with that mission and that

objective? Because if going somewhere and lighting a police car on fire and lighting a building on fire and breaking into a store and running out with goods and merchandise, I don't know how that aligns with the ultimate purpose of, well, what people want, I think. Like, I've asked people, and they can't answer the question. They just don't know. Like, what do people want? They want perfect police officers, right?

They don't want, they want police. Which is impossible because we're talking about human beings. We're human beings, right? So unless we get to the Robocop era, awesome movie. and the well let's define original okay I can get on board with I was like I was like seven the new one I didn't see the new one give it a hard pass let me save you some time let me save you the hour and 48 minutes that movie is just swipe to the next movie and Netflix but that's what people want right people want like these and even then how would anybody ever agree right we'll go back to blue and red you telling me we're going to come into the middle and agree on the programming that's going to go into that machine that's supposed to govern us all, it's never going to happen. That'll be the next complaint, the next thing. But as long as human beings are controlling policing, right, there's always going to be

judgment calls, there's always going to be errors, there's always going to be split-second decisions that maybe was right, maybe it was wrong, but we're never going to have a society where police officers never make a mistake. So if we're going to just keep going down this path where every time a police officer shoots someone of color, the city burns down. Give it enough time and the cities are all going to burn. Every city's going to burn.

And it's just going to spread outside of the cities, which is my fear. So I've asked certain people, I'm like, what do you want? Ultimately, what you want? They're like, well, justice for people, of color not to get shot and killed by white police officers. I said, okay. And I'm not going to get into the percentages because everyone knows it's a minuscule percentage. But when you look at the job and you look at what you have to do, like I know people who are doctors, right, and they

have to make decisions in the OR. However, it's controlled, right? They have lights. They have technology. They have cameras. They have robots. They have a team of really smart dudes and do-ets around and they're like they're like something goes wrong like something starts bleeding that shouldn't be they got and they have time right and I bet they have the ability I know nothing about surgery but I bet at this point they have the ability to reach out to other people from just an information perspective like hey this is what's going on and totally totally so so not only what they have in the room but a higher level of information and why they could probably reach out to the world experts yeah they could they could literally

Like scrub out and say, I'll be right back, go, consult, and they can come back in. Right? Cops don't have that. Like, you have a guy running, grab your weapon, you have a guy running into a car, and you, like, I don't know, what's he going to get? Is he going, like, I don't know. We have no idea, right? Because, you know, very timely what we're talking about, what just happened. Like, no one wants to see the video and no one's talking about the video that I saw early on as a police.

officer where the police officer was yelling at a guy who was talking to him and he said and the guys just started walking away and he said hey come back here hey come back here hey come back and all he said was hey come back here and he kind of like started walking toward him and he didn't go after him he didn't grab him and the guy just casually didn't run wasn't like rushing just casually went in pulled at an a r from his vehicle and lit the cop up i will never forget the sound of that officer screaming after he was shot which most people have no idea right

you get shot with a two to three round and you're dying and you're screaming and then the guy walked up and stood over the officer and executed him and put a bullet through his eye I'll never forget him screaming and that video made me realize

that if I'm ever on a car stop and someone walks away from me and starts walking back to their car, there's one of two things that's going to happen. I'm going to tackle that person and make sure that they don't get back in that car, or I am immediately running and getting cover and drawing down, and the second that guy pops up, he's getting rounds on them.

That's really your choices. That's all you have. You could be offensive or defensive. Those are the choices that you described. And even in your defensive move, you're setting yourself up to be offensive. Yeah. But yeah, based off that scenario,

and I just don't think people understand the complexity of even just that aspect of your job, a patrol stop, and interfacing with people in their vehicle where even when you approach it to begin that, even if you do a stop where you pull a guy out, that's one thing, but when you are walking up to the vehicle,

the dead space, the things you can't see, like... Yeah, people don't know. People have no idea where 20, 25 times a shift every day, first of all, you're stepping out of your car and there's cars going by like 80 miles an hour.

People are texting. People have their like 20-inch screen in their Tesla now, so they're doing, like, they're like watching like, you know, Netflix while they're driving. Like the car is driving itself, whatever. People aren't paying attention, right? So that was the number one threat, the 8,000 pound bullet coming at me. There's some gnarly YouTube videos of close calls to. Cruiser doors getting ripped off.

I've had them. I've had them. You know, I've had them. So that was always the first concern. So you're stepping out of a vehicle on a highway, and your concern is not to get run over, but you're also thinking I can't get run over from something coming from behind me, but I got to make sure that this guy I'm stopping didn't just rob a bank

and isn't waiting to send some rounds my way. So you're watching two threats at one time. So you go up to this car and as you're walking up, you have no idea who they are. Windows could be tinted black. You have no idea where they're coming from, what they're doing. This guy could have just killed his wife and his family and is on the run and you stopped him for his tail light out

and he's thinking, shit, they got me. Well, I'm not going to jail. So you got to be ready for that every single car stop until you find out that this person is just driving to... Yeah, his grandma or whatever it is.

People don't get that. People don't understand that. And it's really easy for someone to say, well, cops are like trigger-happy. Cops are on edge. Yeah, you're on edge. Do the job for like a day, right? and you'll realize that's why cops like die like a few years after they retire because like your heart can't take that so many times a day.

You know, so that lack of understanding makes people, especially with the proliferation of social media, everyone's an attorney, everyone's an expert, everyone's a highly trained ninja, right? And they're like, oh, well, they could have done this. So wait, why didn't the cops do this? And, you know, there is no ban on stupidity, right? So people who have never walked in those shoes are asking questions that if they had done the job for six hours, they would say, oh, no, no, no, I get it. I know, you know. But that's what we have today. And everyone has this voice. Everyone can talk. Everyone can spew whatever they want from, you know, from the sanctity of their couch on their phone. And like they're hidden. They have some fake screen name and whatever. And. That's the danger that we have where people who don't have any right to speak on things are speaking on things. And it's making an impact too. I'm starting to hear more about, and even locally I know guys who are like, you know what, I'm done with this.

And people are driving, whether they are intentionally doing so or they just want their voice to be heard, I think they're, I think they're, driving that occupation towards a direction that nobody wants to see it go. And, I mean, the, let's say it takes a little bit of a right-hand turn. It's going to take a long time to get that thing to come back on course. Yeah, yeah. I don't. There's no easy solution. I mean, I have no solution for it.

I don't know. Well, I'll tell you this one. Defunding the police and removing training. The training that, this is. another thing, police. Most people don't know about police. Training is horrific. It is. Would you say across the board or is that department specific? I would say, for the most part, across the board, I worked at a department that was regarded as very high speed, you know, and our training was like, compared to other departments was so much better. We, you know, we had so much more equipment. We

had so much more capacity, and our training was awful. I didn't quite know how bad it was until I left, and I started doing real training. And then I looked back, I'm like, oh, my God, like, I don't know how I survived. I don't know how, like, I didn't end up dead on some of these calls. And they literally think that they're doing good training, because they don't know any better, right? They just think, you know, hey, we're doing more than what these guys are doing. Well, they only have one touch point. They have what they're experiencing and they don't have the context to bounce it off of probably other departments or other areas. Right. Like less bad doesn't mean it's good. Correct. So I saw that a little bit when I was in, but then obviously, you know, it was glaring when I left. Most people don't know that. Most people think that they see a police officer and they have a gun and they have, you know, the badge and the car and the, you know, that this is a highlight.

trained individual. Most cops shoot twice a year for their qualification. The qualification is on a piece of cardboard that doesn't move. I mean, it moves in closer to you, but it's not dynamic. And the minimum qualification to pass is embarrassing. So most cops don't shoot in between those. I was at almost a hundred-man department, maybe one or two guys ever shot outside of qualls. I would assume that's probably because it came out of their pocketbook if they were going to. Yeah. Yeah, they had to go to the range. They had to get their own ammo and get targets. But to me, how could you not take that seriously? So there were some guys who like hunted, like bow hunting, you know, but when it came to like...

Just doesn't help in your squad car. No. No, I'm like, what are we? Robin Hood? Like, you know, like you can't... If you ever need a bow and arrow as a police officer, shit has gone so sideways. It's so bad. It is so bad at that point. You're like rifling through your trunk to find something that is lethal. What is what I got? A flare? So you look at that and most people were like, you know, oh man, you're a cop.

So you know, you got, you got, you probably do this, probably them. I'm like, no, no, no. That's why in most police shootings, the cops always miss. Most of the time, they're always missing. As of late, the past couple of incidents they've actually hit, and which is, you know, to me, I'm always shocked. I'm always shocked when I see police. I mean, this most recent one was point blank, so it doesn't matter.

But other incidents, I'm shocked because I know most of these guys don't shoot. And, you know, the bad guys usually get luckier and we'll get the head shot, you know, shooting sideways. But that is what needs to happen. More training, more training around the situations that police are dealing with on a everyday basis that most people have no idea. We got to wear like 10 hats, right? I was like a new cop. I was 20-something years old. And I'm going into a house with two 40-something-year-old people.

Their teenage kid is out of control. And I have to go in and play like counselor. You know, a wife is beat up. And I got to go in and like, you know, put this, calm this guy down, talk to this one. And then the kids are crying in the bedroom. So after dealing with this guy who's drunk who just tuned up his wife and the wife who's screaming at the police for being there because, you know, He gets locked up, she has she going to pay her bills, and he's going to come back and kill her, so don't do anything. And then the kids are crying, so then after dealing with that, you've got to go to the kids' room and, like, I've had to, like, read a kid a bedtime story, like, before I secure from the house.

And I'm like, what is going on here? Like, you come in and you're like, you're like amped up. You have your hand on your gun. You think a fight's going to go down. And you end it reading, like, Dr. Seuss. And people are like, wow, you got to, like, do all that. I'm like, yeah, that all happened in like 20 minutes. Yeah, then you got to go to the next call.

The next call, which could probably sound similar to the first one, but have a completely different end state. Absolutely. Absolutely. It could be identical to the first one, but go a completely different route. And we don't have the training for it. We don't have the training for it. We're not trained for it. Do you think it's possible to train? I mean, how much time would they have to dedicate, in your opinion, to train an officer to handle the breadth and depth of situations they encounter? I would say that if they did it on a consistent and regular basis, maybe every month, just something different, you know, because there'd be times where we'd go months without any training at all. And then next to, you know, a training would pop up and it's, oh, you've got to go in and, you know.

But how much do you retain if you have six months in between or even a, even just a, you know, a business quarter? You have, you know, three months in between. It just so precipitously drops off. Yeah, you lose it. And you're not dealing with every call, every single day. And the thing that we need most, I feel, as police in this country are the physical de-escalation things. Because we're not rioting because people hurt someone's feeling. A cop like yelled at someone and, like, cursed them and hurt someone's feelings, right?

There's riots and people are getting shot. Like two people just got shot in Wisconsin. They locked up a 17-year-old kid. I mean, this is what's crazy. Crazy around with an AR. Right? This is like crazy what is happening right now. All for an incident that, yes, it shouldn't have happened.

It could have been avoided. There's fault on both. Have the details even truly come out of that incident yet? Because I know the video, of course, hits social media before there's no way they could do an investigation before that shit went live. No. And then the reaction is based off of what people are seeing. building that there's fuel going on the fire, then literally that city is on fire. And by the time the investigation does come out, and I'm not trying to shirk blame from

anybody because I have no idea what happened. But let's go hypothetical and say that it becomes a justified shooting. He was in fact, let's say there's a body cam, and you can see clearly the guy reaching in the car for a gun, which I don't know if that happened at all. But let's say that it did, and the shooting was justifiable. that city's still burned. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

The cart's so far in front of the horse. Yeah. Nobody has any tolerance to sit there and say, listen, let's figure out what happened before we burn where we live to the fucking ground. Where you live. You hit it on the head, and that is probably the most bizarre thing about this whole situation. We know that some of these areas are already depressed, right? there's struggle, there's strife.

I don't, you know, people like to point the finger at who's running those cities and what party they're with. And I don't disagree with a lot of that because at some point you have to look at who's running these cities and what party they're in. And like, you know, if it's been 30 years, well, at some point, you've got to like look around and wake up and say, okay, we've been here for like a couple of decades now. We've lost family members to gang violence. We've lost family members to drugs. kids can't even walk to school. Like there's metal detectors.

Like, okay, maybe we got to like, maybe look into getting someone else to run the show. Well, and that's where I think, you know, statistics and trends, like you can year after year after year, and if you're not changing anything and it's getting worse or staying the same, I mean, I'm not a mathematician, but, you know, perhaps change one side of the equation

to look for a different outcome. Yeah. I mean, what's the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing, but expecting a different outcome? Exactly. And that's what you see in a lot of these cities. Fuck. You're like, they keep voting the same kind of people in, and they still have the same problems year after year after year.

At some point, like, if you took this and you put it in any kind of situation and you saw a group of people who were in a situation where they were suffering, there was pain, there was suffering, there was angst, and there was someone overseeing that was in charge of them. and the people if given the chance every once in a while said hey listen you're captor you have a chance to pick a new one do you would you like a new one maybe a nicer one maybe someone who maybe give you more food or you know get you out of this like this bad position and the people saying no no just let's we'll just use the same guy and like if he goes we'll just take his brother who's

just like him or his like that's like if you saw that outside people would be like are these people crazy yeah are what like are they like asking for this like what's the matter with these people but yet it does play itself though but it happens and we're seeing it time and time and time again where what's not talked about is i've been to some of these cities and um the people in those neighborhoods are scared like people like there's almost like a sense and i don't know if it's the media where they're like, well, these people have become immune to it, right? You know, they're like they're, they just live in the violence. They're used to it, right? No, like, I've gone to some of these cities and the people who live in these areas, they're like, they're tired of the violence.

They're tired of the shooting. Like, you talk to everyone, someone's lost a family member, someone's lost a child, someone's lost a cousin. They are tired of it. Most of the time, they're like, we need more cops. We need more cops here. But what you see on TV is like the select group of people yelling defund the police and F the police and all this stuff, but when you actually get boots on the ground in there, you start hearing the real narrative.

They're not looking for less cops. They're not looking to defund the police. They realize that if the police left those neighborhoods, it would be anarchy. Yeah. It'd be some Game of Thrones shit. Oh my God. I mean, it would be scary. It

would be scary. And the people who live there, they're the ones who know it would be scary. That's why the people who don't live there are the ones who are like, you don't need the cops, defund them, burn their cars. They're not in the mix. They're not in that shit. They're not living it. It's easy when you're outside of it to talk about what they need and what can go and all that. It's real easy. The people there are suffering. It's bad. I've been to some of these neighborhoods like over a 10-year period and it's only getting worse. It's only getting worse.

And you're like, man, aren't these people like tired of this? Are they, like, tired? They've become numb to the violence. And it's kind of part of their everyday life. Like, someone gets shot and there's almost like no tears anymore. They're like, oh, you got shot? Who shot him? Oh.

Where? Oh. Yeah, I can't even believe some of the statistics that come out. about Chicago. Just the gun violence there? I would only imagine that there's a level of being numb. Yeah. Yeah.

It's become common. It's become common. And that's a scary place to be when that level of violence and that level of crime becomes just commonplace. And it's almost like a place of, dare I say, like hopelessness where they don't ever think that it's ever going to get better. So they just kind of, they kind of become resound. Resolute in okay, well, this is our lives.

This is what we're going to deal. They feel like they don't have any hope of it ever getting any better. So maybe vote someone else in. What are they going to do? They've had decades of politicians making promises and all this stuff and nothing ever happens. They lost hope. And we can go down the rabbit hole of why this is happening.

And I know it's not a popular opinion that I have of it. but I feel like I have, I'm entitled to speak about this because of how I grew up. I don't know how far back you want to go, but like, to the beginning. To, you know, so I never met my dad. You know, my mom is from India, South India. And she went to nursing school in England and ultimately had to go back to India and had to do some kind of commitment for medicine. I figure something involved with the Korean War,

I think India sent medical person or whatever. So anyway, she ended up immigrating here and coming to Albany, New York. How'd she settle on Albany, New York? I think it was probably just like a work opportunity, you know, to be a nurse. She was an RN. And then she was still pretty young,

so I think she had to go back and get arranged marriage. She got arranged marriage. They had my oldish sister and then came to New York and then I think ultimately moved from Albany to Staten Island and had my middle sister. And then this is where the story I think gets a little like cloudy and I've never pushed it with my mom to ask but somehow, some way my mom was pregnant. But my sister's fathers left and went back to India or whatever. And apparently there was some kind of issue with maybe not wanting another child.

I don't know. I have no idea. It's been very, like, cloudy. So my mom was, I think, six months pregnant with me. And he left. He left, you know. was that my actual dad like the dad of my sisters was that mine or was there something squirrelly happened i don't know um you know people see me and they look at my size and they

look at you know they look at me like there's no way you're indian like you're what you're six two two fifteen that's the biggest indian person ever you know they see an indian person like wait look at the guy at the 7-11 you don't look like him so but so either way so i never met him I never met who the person is that would be my father. And, you know, most people don't know how that feels, you know. But there's a lot of people in the African-American community who know how that feels. Single mothers raising sons and daughters.

Yeah. Sometimes mom and dad are removed from the picture and it's grandma raising the child. Statistically much higher rate. Yeah. Other races for sure. Which is another thing that I say that isn't popular, but sometimes the truth is painful. The having children out of wedlock and the single-parent household, it's tough. It is tough.

It's not easy. Well, it's not easy if you have a family in general. Yes. It doesn't get easier if you add those other things. Right. It only makes it tougher. Correct. So I understand that.

So from day one, I came into this earth and I was solo. My oldest sister was taking care of me. She was, I think, I think, like 13 years older. So she was essentially 13 when I was born, and she got thrust into the role of caretaker, caretaker. So my mom was tough. She was, you know, she was the authoritarian. She, like, you know, she had to be.

She realized she had to be, like, the mom, the dad, the enforcer, or else she was going to lose control. Like, she had to have a heavy hand early. Did you have a father figure growing up, somebody outside of your immediate family? I did later on in life after we moved from New York. So she, she. my mom moved to this neighborhood on Staten Island and for those people who are listening,

you know Staten Island, Staten Island, even to this day, it's a little bit more diverse than it was back then, but at that time it was like 99.9% like Italian. Like, you know, that was it, you know. And there was a lot of mob influence, actually the neighborhood we grew up in was actually developed by a mobster who ended up going to jail, but I think he got out. I'm not sure. but so that's the rumor has it the neighborhood's called bull's head and the rumor is that sammy the bull grvano was the one who was responsible for that neighborhood so but my mom settled there don't ask me how you know built a house there and was like okay this is the place well nailed it found our home right well there was no one there that looked like her or my sisters or me and you know my sisters

And my mom almost have like a Hispanic complexion, you know, very light, you know, maybe like a Filipino complexion, right? And then there was me. Like I came in and people were like, that's like baby Wesley Snipes. Like who was this little boy who was like so dark? And it was tough. It was really tough growing up in that area. The kids were all pretty kind. and most of the parents were pretty kind.

But you could tell there was always a sense of I didn't belong. And I even, I remember feeling it as a kid, you know. So as the years went on, the neighborhood like got, I don't want to say it got worse, but the neighborhood became more and more developed. And the people in the neighborhood made it very clear that they didn't want our family living in that neighborhood. So, but my mom was a fighter, and she said, you know, I came to this country to give my children a good life, and I'm going to, I'm going to raise him here.

And they were like, yeah, no. So it culminated. Take your plan and go fuck yourself. Yeah, it was like, and she was so hard-headed. She was like, you know, she was tough, you know, she's a tough lady. you know, did things to our vehicle, did things to the home, and she, like, fought through it. She'd called the police, and sometimes the police wouldn't show up. Sometimes the police would show up, and they would just be, like, they would just dismiss her, because...

I don't want to say the police were on the take, but they kind of knew the situation in the neighborhood, right? It was one of those neighborhoods where, like, you took care of your own, right? So, ultimately, one night, my middle sister and I were... Well, first things first, on the day my oldest sister, who was taking care of me since I was born, the day she turned 18, like the day, there was a knock on the door. And I was little, but I remember it. I just people are like, oh, you don't remember. Like, I remember it. I think it was like, you know, probably like five.

I remember it. I saw two police officers. I saw my sister there and she was there to. take her stuff and move out. And she's lucky. She called the police. She was smart. She realized that if she tried to do this without the police,

there would have been a murder. She called the police herself. She called the police. She wasn't home. I guess she was out somewhere and went to the police and said, I'm 18. I'm leaving my house. My mom is a lunatic.

And I need you guys to come with me so I can pack all my shit and leave. That's some chess right there. I was like, well played. Well played. Very well played. So I remember two cops there, NYPD, and, you know, I was like, wow, like, what is going on? And I remember they came in. She went in.

She, like, packed her stuff. And I remember my mom was like, like, what is going on? Like, you know, she left. You know, to beat 13. and essentially be handed a child and now you can't go to play sports, you can't do anything after school, all the way until you're 18.

Like, there's no homecoming, there's no prom, there's no sweet 16. You are taking care of this child because my mom was a nurse working like a million different jobs to try to support us, you know? It was tough. It was tough, and she was gone. You know, so after that, my mom,

like, I think tried to have her, like, her cousin come in and take care of us, you know, come over from India and take care of us. But that guy was like a hot mess. He was an alcoholic and he was just a mess. He never did anything to like me or my sister that remained, who is four years older than me. But he was just a mess. You know, she just tried to like... She's not a good environment.

Yeah, it was just, you know. So I remember one time he was like drinking. and he broke something and my mom had all these crazy gaudy like decorations around the house because it's like something like you know in the culture that you know you got to prove how hard you work and how wealthy you are by like buying like useless crap and it's like i don't know it's like an Indian thing um and he broke something and i remember my mom came home from work and my mom wasn't afraid to put hands on us because she realized she had to and i remember i took some pretty good whoopens as did my sister.

And, you know, I remember vividly, I must have been like six years old. My mom came home and she was like, you know, what happened here? And he said, oh, Suresh was playing and he broke it. Of course he did. My mom, and he was like, you know, just, you know, drinking something. My mom beat the piss out of me. I this sounds crazy but I remember at that age I remember thinking I'm like I wonder if I'm going to die right now I wonder if this is it like I didn't know when it was going to end and um is being heavy handed pretty cultural in the Indian culture it is okay it is you know my mom came from a time where which I don't know we probably could use it in this country right now where like you know she would tell stories that like if you stepped out of line in school, the teacher had a yardstick. The teacher would beat you, you know, over the hand or

over the buttocks or over the back. And then you would get sent home and you had to tell your parents what happened. And then your parents would beat you some more. If you did something really bad, like if you like stole something, you know, God forbid, like from one of the local, you know, they grew up in like a village. They would take you to the middle of the village, all the parents and all the kids would come out and you would get beaten in the middle of the village and the shop owner who you stole from is the one who would beat you.

Damn. And so there wasn't a lot of theft. There wasn't a lot of crime. I mean, it happened sporadically, but that was very compelling for all the other children in the village to say, oh, yeah, no. I think that might be a touch far. But, you know, there's probably,

probably a solution in between coddling and that. Yes. That would be appropriate. Yes. And it, so that, she brought that over here. You know, if you do that today, you know, that's it. You know, you're gone. You know, you're never seeing you.

Yeah, your kids are you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're never seeing your kids again. So, so that was bad. And, but that was her way to control me, you know, to keep me in line.

And she put the fear of God in me. She really did. She put the fear of God to me. So I straightened out real quick. So I think when I was like seven one night, we were watching TV, me, my sister. I don't think my mom was home. I don't remember because she was never home. She was always working.

And there was plenty of times we were like home alone. Brick came through the front bay window and right behind it was a quarter stick of dynamite. And it exploded on the, arm of our green velour couch that was wrapped in plastic? Of course. Of course, right? I can imagine the noise it makes as you were to sit on it.

Oh my goodness. And in the summertime, the noise it makes when your flesh is peeling off of it as you stand up, it was awesome. And sleeping on it is even more awesome. You try to put a blanket to like whatever and you slide right off. So it exploded

right near my sister's head. And I remember the arm. I remember the smell of the plastic burning and the hole in the arm of that sofa. And I was like, I was like woken up. I was like, what was that? And all I saw was smoke and there was glass. And it was a big melee. And ultimately we found out that's what happened.

People in the neighborhood banded together. And they were like, okay, well, we're going to make them leave. And threw a, you know, a brick or a rock through the window. And, you know, yeah. So at that point, my mom was like, okay, I think it's time to move, you know. Yeah, there's not much more you could do to escalate past that. If that's their opening move and they were to continue down that path, it's not going to get any prettier. Yeah, I didn't know what was going to come next.

So, you know, she moved us out of there. And she wanted somewhere that had good schools. and because, you know, in her culture, and anyone with Asian parents can attest to this, either you become a doctor, an engineer, a lawyer, or, you know, something of that level, or else you are a complete loser in life. So there's no pressure is what you're saying. No. And it was not like, it was not hidden.

It was very open. Like she would say that. She would say it outright. She would, like, we would be driving down the street, obviously not a seatbelt or an airbag in the car in her, like, big mercury. And we would be driving on the street. And in New York City, there's always construction going on, right? Like everywhere is always construction. And every time without fail, she would stop next to, like, construction workers.

And she'd be like, you see that? You see that? See those guys out there? That's going to be you if you don't study in school. That's it. You're going to be a loser. You're going to throw your life down the drain. There's a term in Indian.

I spoke to, of course, I spoke the language that she spoke growing up, and I learned it. And she would say this term in Indian, which meant you're going to put mud on your head. That's a literal translation. But in English, it's like, you're going to be an effing loser. And I was like, man, this is like, you know, I remember even as a kid, I was like, man, I was like, man, Like if I don't do this like she's gonna like you know kill me So I feel like you didn't get asked off and what do you want to be when you grow up It was more like you're going to be a doctor when you grow up

That was it that was there was nothing else I was going to be a doctor all her family back in India Her sisters her brothers most of them were doctors So she moved us to this town in New Jersey in the middle of New Jersey middle of the state And this little town called Spotswood and And I don't know, like, we were leaving a situation because of the color of our skin and our ethnicity. And she moved us to this town that was like, I don't know, it was probably like a small little version of Montana. Like, once again, there was no diversity in the town at all. It was 99%, 0.9%.

Like, there wasn't even any Asian people. There was like no Hispanic people. There was nothing. and, you know, I guess she met with a realtor and was like, I just want good schools. And this town had just got like something called Blue Ribbon Schools. So I'm like, oh, this town's really good. And she's an educational perspective. That's it.

You know, that's all my mom cared about. So she's like, okay, yeah, my kid is going to be a doctor. I was like, you know, playing with like GI Joe's like in like the backseat of the car. He's like, yeah, he's going to be a doctor, so I need good schools here. I was like, what? So we moved to this town. and I remember my first day of school. I was, I think, seven.

I was, you know, the brown boy, the black boy. Everyone in the, and not only in my class, I was second grade, but the entire school was, of course, white. And I had like a Staten Island accent, like an Italian, like Tony Soprano type accent. People were like, what is this thing? Where did this creature come from?

And it was rough. It was really rough. So I fought to like try to speak like these people in New Jersey spoke. Because when I said certain words, people would look at me funny and be like, what did you just say? I'm like, car. I didn't say car. I said car. You know?

So it was like weird. It was like a very, you know. It's got to be rough at that age, too, to be able to recognize that and have to put that energy in to just trying to fit in. To have to have that in the back of your mind at all times. It was exhausting. Like, you know, it's hard enough for a little kid to move to a new town, you know, and have to make new friends. Because I like my little friends on Staten Island. The kids were awesome.

We all got, because kids, kids don't see that. Kids aren't born with that, you know? Yet. Yet. Yeah. So, it was tough, you know, and people tease me, people made fun of me. People like literally would come up to me, like kids would come up to me like, when's the last time you showered? Why is your skin so dirty?

Jesus Christ. And I, like, my mom didn't like prep me for any of this. So, and we were getting a little bit older. Now we're getting to like seven, eight years old where it's not kindergarten. anymore where everyone's just like playing and sharing blocks and you know snack time and nap time now it was getting to the point where kids were starting to be mean you know and you know there were the little cliques already forming you know and um i'll you know i'll never forget there was like a class party and someone's mom made like cupcakes and she only made enough cupcakes for everyone but me and when like it came

time the teacher, the teacher actually said something. And she's like, well, no, I only made it for, you know, like these people. I'm like, wow. Like, this is like, you know, this is wild. So like as a little kid, like, you know, the biggest thing for me at that time was like, everyone else gets to eat a cupcake and I don't like, but now I look back at it. I'm like, wow, that was really screwed up. Yeah, to you at that point, it was just about a cupcake.

It was about sugar. But that shit was expression truly of racism. Yeah. And on a side note, fuck that woman. Yeah. Make you a cupcake. See, that to me just infuriates me to no end. Yeah.

So, like, I would, like, come home and, like, try to, like, so my mom didn't say, like, she didn't hug us. She didn't. So we were now living in New Jersey, but she still was working in New York as a nurse and, like, working, like, illegally with, like, three different nursing agencies. So they wouldn't know how many hours she was working because you could only work so many hours. But she had to, like, afford this house. house and she didn't sell the house on Staten Island she rented it out to some people so she was never

home she was like never home like like my I had my other sister that was there but she was you know four years older so she had her own little world going on so there was plenty of times again I'm walking home by myself and get home I got to like you know like make my own food and then like she would call from the hospital and be like okay do your homework and then whatever and like she would just be like okay do your work do this do this and and I want you to read this letter encyclopedias. So we had these encyclopedias that she bought. World Book Encyclopedia.

And they were like... We used to have them too. Broke them like with a gold bond. Oh, yeah. Edging, right? Yep. So that was like our Google. New set every year?

Yeah. Yeah. It would go from Maroon to blue. Back to Maroon to blue. Yep. And yeah, had that like gold leaf on. And so she would say, okay, you know, I want you to read like L. Read something from L today.

And I'm going to call you later and let me know what you read. so that was what I had to do because I was home alone you know whatever and I never had that opportunity to be like you know mom like someone said this to me today or this happened with like the cupcake or you know the whole class got invited to so-and-so's roller skating party but I didn't get invited like I I remember one time I said something like that and she's like why are you telling me about this just focus on your studies you're going to become a doctor and you're never going to see any of these people again so just don't worry which you're She wasn't wrong, because what happens in middle school and high school and elementary school is all trivial in the grand scheme of things. But it's still really hard to live through. Yes. As a kid, like, that was your whole, like, when you're a kid and you don't get invited to a birthday party. It's devastating.

It's devastating. Like, your whole world is ending, right? And then, like, the next day, everyone comes in and talks about, like, how much fun it was, and everyone has, like, their candy from the party. And everyone's like, I'm the only one. I'm like the odd one out. I'm like, wow, this is like. But she wasn't that.

mom she didn't hug us she didn't kiss us is that cultural as well it is it's a very um it's a very cold it's a very cold culture um i don't know you know it's like you that they's you know it's going away from it now but like that arranged marriage thing where you know families meets family and you're literally marrying someone you've never met before it's only your families put you together you know there isn't that i don't want to i don't want to make a blanket statement saying all families are like that yeah but i mean I know for the most part, yeah, it's the norm. My mom didn't tell me she loved me until like, no, I think till like I was like 22, 23.

Wow. Yeah. And like I never heard those words come out of her mouth. And it only came out of her mouth before my first shift. My first shift as a police officer was a midnight shift. And she's... Which sounds like you didn't become a doctor. No.

We'll get to that. And she hadn't talked to me for a while. And so I remember I talked to her, and she called me, and she said, she was angry. She was just angry. I could tell by her voice, she was angry. But I remember she, at that point, she told me, she said, are you going to wear your vest? I was like, yeah, I'm going to wear my vest. She's like, I need you to promise me that you'll never go on duty without your vest.

because she had taken care of NYPD officers who had been shot. She actually saved this one guy's life, and, like, that guy was, like, forever indebted to her. And, like, he sent her a card, like, every year. And, like, for, like, 40 years. Like, it was crazy because she helped, she was on, like, the trauma team that helped save his life. And then she took care of him after and, like, nursed him back to health.

And, um, I remember she, you know, she went through all these things that she asked, me to do and she's like okay she's like um you know i really like you and i'm like i could tell like it was like on the tip of her tongue and i'm like mom i know and she's like you're my my baby son you know and i can't have anything happen to you um i don't know why you're doing this to me but i really like you and i love you and i was like um okay thanks mom I like I didn't know what to say I was like I didn't say I love you back because I never said it you know and um she said just be safe and make sure you call me in the morning when you get home I was like yeah I will and she said you know I'm not going to sleep tonight and I said God damn it mom my fucking guilt trip I said I said I know she's like I'm I can't go to sleep until I know you're home safe and I was like well you can sleep you know and isn't it

crazy how the difficulty in expressing the love for one of your kids was she a an empathetic and caring nurse she was an awesome nurse did she do you think she showed her patients a greater level of physical care and love than she would at your home I saw her as a nurse because I had to sit in the hospital on many occasions when she was going to be gone for like too long. So I would have to go like hang out in the hospital and do my homework and wait in like the waiting room or you know some lounge. Sometimes she would put me an empty patient room and I would just like sit there and hang out and you know there was no iPads. There was no like I had to like read a book or like color or whatever. And you know her or some of the other nurses would come in and

check on me, but I got to see her. She worked in ICU a lot, so people were like really hurt. Yeah. And she was like really good at what she did, but she was definitely tough love. And like, I remember watching her like having to like move people who were like laying down for too long and they would complain. And she'd be like, you know, oh, be quiet. This is what you need.

This is good for you. This is what you need. You're a big man. You're a big grown man. So actually similar treatment. Yeah. at home okay you know but she was good she was good but she she did her job she knew she had a job to do and she did it well um so yeah tough love there too you know um but she

truly cared she cared about her patience and um hard to hard to imagine or it shouldn't say hard to imagine but interesting that you can show that physical care but yet extreme difficulty expressing the inner personal relationship yeah uh respect to that. Yeah, it was bizarre. It was like a weird dichotomy. But, you know, so I was there in New Jersey and, you know, doing my own thing and, you know, pretty much raising myself and she was, you know, raising me from afar. At some point she found some dude in the newspaper from India that her family recommended or something and brought him over here to try to essentially be a babysitter for us. I mean, it really wasn't a marriage, technically.

Maybe it was on paper, I don't know. And this guy was just an absolute creep. He was awful with my sister and he was another drunk. And once again, never did anything to me, but was just worthless. I was like, we were better off alone, you know, and for my sister's sake, She was definitely, we were better off alone. And so one day he just disappeared. He just left.

He disappeared one day and we never saw him again. I don't know what happened. And then we're back to us being alone again, you know. And things were tough in that town. You know, I had a teacher call me a monkey in the middle of class, you know, like wasn't even like scared to call me that. Like didn't say it under his breath, like said it out loud. And like, as we got older, like some of the kids definitely saw what I was going through

and were a little bit more compassionate. The girls were more compassionate than the boys, believe it or not. But I got into sports. I had to, you know, I had to walk like to the other side of town to the town hall and sign myself up for soccer. And they would say, you know, you need a parent here. And I would say, well, no, I have a check or I have the money. My mom would leave it for me. Sometimes she would just leave cash in an envelope that I had to, like, sustain life with that money for until she came home again, you know.

That shit would be gone in, like, 30 minutes. Oh, my God. Like, how? Thank God she put the fear of God in me once again, because I was like, but, you know, at that point, it wasn't like today where, like, everything was so readily accessible, you know. But I realized, like, if I blew through the money, like, I wasn't going to eat, you know. So I was surviving on ramen noodles before surviving on ramen noodles was cool. Like mac and cheese, hot dogs. The staples, if you will.

Yeah, like the three basic food groups, ramen hot dogs and mac and cheese. Yeah. Right. And it was like not even like the good mac and cheese. It was like, you know, the discount stuff. So I was like, oh my God. But, you know, I had to survive and do that. And I couldn't get mad at my mom because I always knew she was working.

But it was hard to like, you. you know, walk or ride my bike to practices by myself on game day. She was never, ever there. And it just, that's the point where you start realizing that you're like, everyone else's parents are there cheering for them. After the game, they got the arm around them, whether we lost, you know, and said, oh, you did good, you know, whatever. And I was, like, walking home by myself, you know.

And everyone was like, oh, come on, Timmy, take you out for people. pizza and ice cream. You did well. And I'm like, man, I got to go home and, man, I wonder what flavor I'm going to have a ramen, chicken or beef. Maybe there's shrimp. I don't know. That was like my thing I had to do, like, dejected after like a game. It's a lot. And once again, like it became my norm. Like we were talking about earlier, like some people who live in these, you know, crappy situations in some of these inner cities, like someone else from the outside looking in, like thinks oh my god that's horrific what they're living in like gunfire every night whatever but the people who are in it that's like their norm like it's not like crazy to them so what i was experiencing

was that was my norm like i just i saw what was happening but i was like that's not my life like you know um and um you know i i i i i that's when i kind of started learning the appreciation for two parents yeah seeing like well that's got to be tough as a kid seeing what you're describing Because at first, as you were younger, no, probably wavedops. You're not even catching that. But like as you age up and you can see what's going on, you have a better understanding, that's got to be a very, very painful pill to swallow. You know, I see people today that, you know, just to go off topic for a second,

I see people today that, like, I'm friends with, and like I see they're like they're not close with their dad or some stuff goes on with their family, maybe divorce or something, and they're like, yeah, I'm going to talk to my dad in like, you know, two years. I'm like, bro, are you crazy? If something happened tomorrow, you would never regret putting all that shit aside

and just say, you know what, I'm going to, this guy's my dad, no matter what he did in the past, whatever, he helped raise you. Okay, some stuff happened between him your mom, whatever. He helped raise you. He loves you. Everyone makes mistakes.

Everyone screws up. No one's perfect. Wait your turn. It's going to happen to you. Oh, for sure. That last part could not be more true. So, call your dad.

Like, you don't, you're taking for granted having a dad. Yeah. I don't even have the luxury of being pissed at a dad. Like, who taught you how to throw a baseball when we were younger? Your dad. Who taught you how to throw a football?

Your dad. Who was there when that girl took someone else to homecoming and was like, you know, screw that girl, we're going to go here, we're going fishing. And like got your mind off of it. Like your dad now, like some trivial shit and you're like, yeah, no, fuck him, he's a scumbag, he's this. I'm like, bro. You never know a life's going to throw at you too, like you said.

You'll never regret sweeping that aside. and bridging the gap. But if something happens, you will surely regret not the rest of your life. Forever. Yep. You'll never regret making amends and just manning up

and just doing the right thing. But I know people who never had a chance to do that. Yep. It'll haunt them to their last day. Until they're dead. Yep. Till they're dead. They think about it, talk about it,

and they'll say today, if I had a chance to hit that reset button, well, there is no reset button. We're not wearing practice or is this is the game. Yeah. So do what you'll never regret it. But so yeah, that was tough. But, you know, I learned very early on as I got into like high school that I had two choices.

I had no like love and affection from my mom and I had no one to coddle me and like, you know, kind of lift me up. So I said I could either let all this stuff that's happening to me, people making fun of me, people call me names and whatever. teachers, you know, calling me monkey in the middle of class. I had one teacher who, you know, this is, this was like my first hint of, like, actual, like, racism. Like, that I can't kind of, like, not the little kid stuff with, like, you know, not invited to parties and stuff. But, like, this woman clearly didn't like me. And I had no interaction with her. She, like, taught, like, keyboarding, which is, like, you know, how to type or something like that.

computers. Which, by the way, is probably the most valuable skill that I ever got from high school was typing class. Oh, my God. So my mom made me and my sister learn how to type at home. She got like a Epson or, I don't know, keyboard, typewriter. And I remember early on, she said, you're going to never lose this skill. So she made sure we knew how to type. And I remember this was like in 10th grade or something and I remember I left class and I was going to my other class and she just wasn't nice to me

and I never did anything like I was quiet like I never like whatever and in high school because of my situation I had to be friends with everyone so I didn't have the luxury of picking a click at least I didn't think that so I played sports and you know I was involved in a lot of stuff

because it kept me busy and like, you know, you know, past the time. I mean, I signed myself up for Boy Scouts in middle school and, you know, I, you know, went through and did my Eagle Project into all that because it was just something to keep me busy. Sports kept me busy because I realized if I didn't have that, I would end up probably doing stupid shit with my stupid friends who didn't play sports and just were hanging out. Idle time.

Yeah. Oh, my God. Like, hey, they were like knocking my door. We were like, hey, do you have gasoline? We got this stump. on the jump that we're trying to build in the woods and I'm like yeah this is a bad idea but I'm like it's in the shed go you know but so you know I remember specifically like I had to be nice to everyone I had to be nice to everyone I didn't have the luxury so there were the kids who were like all black

and metallic t-shirts and had their long hair and mega death and I was nice to them and they were nice to me because they just appreciated that I didn't like ostracize them like the other kids did. There were the kids that played sports, the jocks, you know. There were the kids that I was on, you know, math team and science team. The nerds. I was friends with everyone. So I became this chameleon. And it helped me.

It definitely helped me because people were like, oh, this guy, like, isn't picking a side. He's nice to, because at that point, like, people were. mean like the jocks were like would just like treat like the kids in all black and were kind of got there and now it's called emo high school kids are fucking assholes brutal they are sharper than a razor blade and they cut deeper than razor blade like you're saying before you know you look back on life and oh you know high school and middle school it was trivial well yeah you realize that in your 30s yeah when you're living through it just like god damn it was awful yeah it was It was horrendous.

It was awful, you know. And so I remember in 10th grade there was a teacher that, like, I was like, I'm sorry, and leave with everyone in class. And this woman, her name was ironically. She had like the short Bob haircut and her name was Karen. I'm not going to say her last name right now, but her last name is going to be in the book. And because fuck her. concur.

I don't even know what she did, but I'm going to agree with that. I leave class one day where. we were just given an assignment and the I don't know how to explain this remember there would be these like walls they would roll out to divide a room into two and they kind of like the walls were like fabric

and then they were accordion back you know so it was one of those rooms and they slid it and like half the class was on one side of it but with an opening and the other so I was on one side and with some group of kids and the other side and you know we were just kind of doing our thing and then class ended the bell rang

and there was an exit out of the side I was on, so me and all my friends went out that exit, and she wasn't even on that side of the class for most of the class. But there was only like six or seven of us there, and we were all like kind of talking to each other the whole time. I left the class, and the assistant principal came and grabbed me and was like, hey, I need to talk to you.

I'm like, oh, yeah, sure, what's up? And he's like, I got to talk to you about what happened in the class with Mrs. So-and-so. I'm like, what happened? I thought something happened to someone else. And he's like, what you said to her? And I said, what do you mean? When?

And he said, we'll just come to my office. So I went to his office and this woman came in. And I was like, oh, hey, Mrs. Whatever. And she's like, don't hey me. I was like, what do you talk? What happened? She's like, I heard what you said when you were in class when you were walking out. I said when I was walking out,

I didn't even see you. Where were you? She said, you called me a bitch. I was like, what? I said, first of all, you were on the other side of the room. You weren't even with us. And I told this, I said, these six, seven kids were there. We were talking the whole time while we're doing our assignment.

It wasn't like a private thing. I said, we all walked out together. I said, while we were walking out, I said this. I said, to who? She said, to me. I said, all right, well, just bring in all right. well, just bring in all those kids that were there. And she's like, we're not bringing anyone in.

And the assistant principal was like, this is not acceptable. We're going to, you know, give you detention. And I said on, like, what day? And they're like, oh, like Saturday. I said, well, I had like a big, like, you know, basketball game or some soccer game or whatever. And I'm like, or maybe it was, I don't know, maybe wrestling. I don't know. I'm like, I said, do I get an opportunity to defend myself here?

because I'm telling you that there was about six or seven other people. This woman, for some reason, I never really had a problem with her, but I could just tell she didn't like me, so I kind of was like, I'm going to skate under the radar. And I remember I turned to her, and I said, why are you doing this to me? And she just looked at me and got up and went to the door and walked away. And I was like, so I looked at the assistant principal,

and was like, so is this it? This is how it goes? She says I say something, I get no defense and it's her word against mine. I said, and you're not even going to ask the other people who were witnesses. And he's like, I'll see you Saturday for all day detention. And I was like, wow, this can happen in life. And that was like a real, that was like the first real, like thing that I was like, wow,

this person clearly doesn't like me because of color of my skin and is willing to just fabricate a blatant lie. And, you know, the bigger thing I was concerned about, I was like I was missing my game on that Saturday or whatever. It was a tournament or something. And I was like, wow. So I remember, you know, I had to like go to detention. I forget what it was.

And I remember that there was a girl. I don't want to say her name, but she was, well, I can say her first name. Her name's Megan. And a beautiful girl, blonde hair, blue eyes. And I remember her. coming up to me after she heard what happened and she's like I know

that what like happened is like complete bullshit and I just want to let you know that it kills me that you have like no defense here she was so sweet and I remember I was like I was so like you think you're old when you're in like 10th 11th grade

you think you like know a lot right you know a lot of shit right like just ask you yeah I was like just tell me about anything ask me about I got it. But I remember in that moment, I felt so small and I felt so weak. And I remember asking her, I was like, is this going to keep happening to me for like the rest of my life? Is this like the first of like, and she was like, I don't know.

I remember she like teared up. She's like, I don't know, but I hope not just, you know, deal with it. Don't make it worse and whatever. And I wasn't like a, you know, I never got in trouble. I wasn't like a jokester. I wasn't one of those. I was literally smart kid under the radar. sports friends every you're still in the doctor pipeline at that point i was i was you know i was like i

had to get good grades whatever so um junior end of junior year i ran for senior class president and i won i couldn't believe i was like wow and you know my friends were like of course you won you're friends with everyone you're not in a click you like everyone you treat everyone kindly so um that was kind of cool and um got my first taste of like politics and school politics and school politics and I think it burned some of the teachers there that I can think of one teacher that probably was pissed about it. Exactly.

Side note, she ended up having sex with two of the guys in my class and it was, there's no Facebook or Instagram, so of course, like if that happened today, it's being sent out around to every guy. Especially given her first name. Yes.

And nothing happened. Nothing happened. Drinking with students and sleeping with students and nothing happened. And to me, I was like, this is awesome. This woman is sitting here trying to hurt me and she's sleeping with students. Like, this is like, this is hypocrisy 101, you know? So some people are pieces of shit. Yeah.

I mean, that's what that comes down to. And, you know, I never said anything. I could have. I could have. But then part of me was like, if I say something, is anyone going to believe me? You know? Are they going to say, oh, you're just making it up in retaliation or whatever? It was, you know, whatever.

So, as you can imagine, I couldn't wait to get the fuck out of there. So I was like, let me get out of there. So I got into a program, a pre-med program, just kind of like tried to accelerate things down in University of South Florida and Tampa. Went down there. Biochemistry major, you know, doing what I needed to do to become a doctor. And then my sister, who was back up here in New York. Older or middle?

The middle one. The older one I just lost contact with. Never saw her again for quite some time. Decides she was going to join the Peace Corps and was like going away to Kyrgyzstan. I'm like, where is Kyrgyzstan? Never go anywhere with a stand on the end of it. See only advice I'm going to give. Just avoid the stands.

Bad idea. To Zikaistan, Kyrgyzstan, Afghanistan, avoid the stands. And I was like, you're going, I'm like, are you crazy? Like, what? She's like, oh, you know, peace core, you know. And she's like one of the strongest women I know. She's like, my sister is awesome and tough. And so I was like, you know, all right, you know,

my mom's going to kind of be by herself. My mom wasn't old at that point, but she was getting older. Yeah. So I transferred up to New York City. And, you know, I was like, I'm going to go to school in New York City. and you know started going to school there had to you know got a little bit backtrack because of transfer credits and all that and you know it was on the track you know doing work in the hospitals with the doctors and um doing all the courses you know taking extra courses you know were you enjoying it no i was miserable but it came it didn't

it wasn't hard for me yeah i enjoyed science i definitely enjoyed the science i enjoy i loved physics I loved math. I loved, you know, the biology and the chemistry. Just not fulfilling is your entry into the occupation? Yeah, it just like, so at this point, as you get a little progress in college, they start kind of like letting you dip your toes into like what it's like to, like, shadow doctors and stuff like that. And these people were miserable.

They were miserable. And I was like, man, is anyone in this hospital, like, happy to, you know, be here? And I kind of remember that as a kid with my mom, like the doctors would always come in. The nurses did everything. And the doctors would come in and they'd like come in, pick up the chart, look at it, and be like, do, da, do it. And they would leave. And I'm like, wow, that guy makes a lot of money for just doing like very little, you know, in that situation. And he looks miserable.

Why? Like, you just didn't, like 30 seconds of work, you know? I know it's a little bit more involved than that. But as a kid, I saw that. so I was like man this is not like this is not what I want to do and so it was nearing the end of my program I was like maybe like a year and a half or two years out and um that was uh when I started thinking about like I think I was like I got to like get the courage to like tell my mom like I don't want to do this and um I'd always like had this like had this like

Every little kid at some point looks at astronaut, police officer, firefighter, you know, somehow, whatever. And I didn't have like that guidance growing up. So, and the only thing I had that I was allowed to do, I wasn't really allowed to watch TV, was books. And I remember one of my friends' fathers, probably like seventh, eighth grade, gave me this book. Because he was like, you know, you know, thinking I need structure, right? and I was it was like a book I didn't read I was always reading educational books

and I'll never forget I was in middle school and I remember like what is it he's like oh don't worry just read it and when you're done reading it let me know what you think and I'm like all right and I remember I looked at the book it didn't have the paper it was a hardcover but you know like the paper that covers the hardcover it didn't have it on it

and I remember I got home and I remember I opened it and it said Rogue Warrior I'm like why did you have to say that name I was like God damn it Dick Marseon go yeah yeah I was like who the fuck is Richard Marsenko like what is this why did this guy give me this book of all the books he could have given you he gave you that pile of shit on the planet on the every book ever written he gives me that book so I was like oh he told me to read it and

like at that point actually read it too is not that bad no I kind of liked it yeah and they got worse as they went oh yeah yeah became a series oh did it yes there were many more oh I didn't know that yeah don't wait waste your time. No. Oh, don't Amazon it. No. Just swipe it into the garbage bin. So, you know, anytime like someone's dad like gave me like, like, I was like, I would take fatherly advice whenever I could. I was like, I'm going to read it. So I remember I read it and I got to the end of it. I'm like, these dudes are awesome. I want to, like, this is what I want to do. I was like, I was like honed in. So I remember I asked him about it and he's like, listen, if you ever want to

going to the military, this is what you want to do. I was like, okay, I said, um, did he, did he have the military background? I think he'd been, I think he'd been in the Navy, actually, he'd been in the Navy. Was he a seal? No, okay. No, almost positive he wasn't. At least he had some military service. It'd been, yes, yeah. Actually a slightly more bizarre and awesome story. If he had no military experience, was like, here you go, here's your future. That's exactly what he's, like, here's the handbook. I was like, oh, shit. I was like, okay.

So, mind you, like, I'd only read, like, popular mechanic and all that stuff. One of my favorite magazines growing up. Yeah, you know. So I read it. And I remember my mom one time, like, came in and, like, saw it, like, on my nightstand. She's like, what's that? I'm like, oh, just a- fucking instruction manual for life.

A manifesto. I'm like, oh, just like a book on math that so-and-so's dad gave me. She's like, oh, okay. So, um, I had, like, like, that I had the bug. And I was like, so there's like dudes like this for real. Like I thought it was only like the movies where you see like Terminator and you see like Rambo.

And like I was very cognizant that this was movies. And now I'm reading this book. And I'm like, holy shit, real dudes actually do this stuff. And I'm like, my God, this is crazy. So I remember him telling me like when he was like, did you read the book? And I was like, yeah, he's like. What you think? I was like,

these guys are real? He's like, oh yeah, they're real. I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, what do you got to do?

Like, he's like, well, it's not easy. I'm like, I thought the Navy was, boats. As do most people.

And, yeah, and like sailors and, you know, like whatever. I said, like, this doesn't seem like that.

He's like, yeah, not a lot of people talk about it. I'm like, I like this mystery, man. I was like, okay.

So he's like, he's like, you should read it again. I'm like, so I did. So I did. And I was like, then I gave like my little, that like planted the seed. So as time went on and years went on, I'd always thought about that book. I always thought about it.

And I was like, oh, man. And so I got to the point where I was not fulfilled in the path I was on. And I was getting the courage. I was old enough. I was getting the courage. You're early 20s at this point. Early 20. I think I was like just 20.

I broke out of the teens. And I'm like, all right, I think I have the courage. Like, so my mom was a mom who like was like, if you ever fall off the line here, I will send you to live with your grandmother in India. And she meant it. I remember one time, I don't know. So she was really vague in how she felt.

That's what I'm getting from this. No shake in her tone. Like, she would do it. And I believed it because she never threatened or threw out a consequence and didn't follow through with that consequence, which I realize now was a very good technique. as a single mom she had to and I remember one time

she had I don't know what it was but it was it looked like a plane ticket and it was like big but it was like that cardboard perforated edge and I remember it said Pan Am on it Pan Am Pan Am

Pan Am and I was like what is that? She's like that's the ticket for you to go live with your grandmother in India if you screw up holy shitballs and I was like I'm like it's really

hot there, it's really scary there, and like they don't have a lot of food and like doctor it is. Yeah. I was like, sign me up for medical school. Just call me Seresh MD. So, I was like, oh man, I was like, shit. All right. So. Yeah, that's tough.

That's definitely narrowing you down a path where there's not a lot of turns. And you don't want to disappoint the only person that's been in your life, right? And she was very, She was very vocal about, like, if you don't do this, you will break my heart.

You will be a embarrassment and a disgrace to me and your entire family. And let's believe, Carol, clear, that's a little fucked up to say to a kid. Right. And I was like, that's not the motivation that's going to get them, you know. There was no, like, there was a little bit of, you know, if you, you know, if you do this, you'll have a good life. You'll have a good career. you'll never be worried about money and there was very little bit of that and more of like you'll be a loser you'll have shame based yeah it's all shame it's all shame and your family will like shame you which happens

over there you know i didn't realize it doesn't quite happen over here but it happens over there so um man about 20 21 um that's when i kind of had the courage to tell my mom that i was going to take a different path and I was going I think I was like going into my final year where I could like get a couple of degrees because all the classes I took you ended up I ended up with like three college degrees because I was taking so much because my mom

was just like hammering me to like get done early got to graduate early she graduated high school at like 14 so she's like you gotta get done early you got to get done early because you got to get into your residency for surgery six years residence for surgery and so I was like okay

and so it was a lot of pressure and then 9-11 happened. And I just happened not to be in the city that day, but I was on Staten Island. We were back in the house I grew up in. She ended up losing the house in New Jersey. It got foreclosed on. Sounds like she was balancing a lot.

She was balancing a lot. But she hit it from us. So it was, I don't remember what, it was like end of junior year. There was like a knock on the door, and it was the sheriff's office, and was like, my mom was at work. And it's like, uh, and there was a moving truck out front. And I was like, um, what's going on?

Like, um, yeah, you need to get your things and leave. And I don't think my sister was home. So I was home by myself. And I'm like, what are you talking about? And, um, I remember there was a woman there who was really nice. I'll never forget what she looked like. She had short brown hair and she came in and she's like, um, Is your mom not told you what's happening?

And I was like, I guess, like 16, 17, maybe. I'm like, no, like, what's that moving truck? What are you doing here? It's like, you know, your mom hasn't paid the mortgage in a long time. I was like, oh, like, for the house. She's like, yeah. And it's been like a long time. Like, obviously they don't do this unless you've not paid your mortgage for quite some time.

Pretty substantially delinquent, I would imagine. And I didn't know. I had no idea. My mom was working like an animal. So I was like, you know, and we didn't live a lavish life. And we were in this like blue collar town. We weren't in a mansion by any means. And I was like, I kind of like, I didn't know what was going on.

But I also kind of had a personal like connection because my mom was never home. So I was always tasked to take care of the home. So I had to cut the grass. I was a little kid. I was on the roof climbing, cleaning the gutters. I had to like power wash. So I kind of felt like it was my home. Yeah.

You know? And I was like, well, you probably spent more time in it than she did. Yeah. Yeah, I did. And I was like, you can't, you can just come in and they're like, yeah, you need to leave. And I was like, I was like. A lot to process at that age. Yeah.

I was like, what is going on? So I call my mom and I was like, mom, like the sheriff's office is here. They said you didn't pay for the house. Like what, like, what's going on? She's like, I'm sorry. I didn't think they were going to do that. They can't do that. She got on the phone.

She's screaming at the cop that's there. And yeah, that was it. I was like out on the street. And one minute I was shooting hoops in the driveway. Next minute I'm like, can I bring my Nintendo? Can I, you know, what about my stuff? And they were like really good about it. My sister was in college.

Four years old. She was in college. she was going at Rutgers university and I was like man this was like a whirlwind so my neighbors a couple houses down took me in

and I pretty much lived with them through senior year and they like saved me they like started taking me to church and his dad was in the Navy he was a CB he had some pretty crazy stories and I'm like you guys built what in

how many hours and they're like yeah Yeah, no big deal. Oh, I've seen him do some shit. I was like, what? Those dudes can throw down. Really? Yeah.

Yeah, so, and he's not like an embellisher either. He's like just like a salt of the earth dude. And they took me in and they like saved me. They saved me. So I live with them through senior year and I still now regard them as like my parents because he took me in and became that father figure for me. And they were just the greatest people in the world. So, you know, I told my mom, I was like, yeah, I'm going to graduate.

I'm not. going to do the program and uh post nine 11 you told her that yeah and um she's like you're gonna throw your life away you're so close you're this you're that you know you're she's like you're gonna be a complete disgrace you're gonna be a loser and i'm like god damn woman and i'm like um yeah i don't want to go into medicine and she's like oh yeah okay well just throw your life away but you know throw mud on your head fine you know whatever i said okay so um not then 9-11 happens and I was angry. And one of the planes flew over Staten Island over a house.

I remember, I was like, man, that plane is like really low. Planes don't fly over our neighborhood where we were situated to Manhattan. And then it happened. And it was like eye-opening. And like it didn't, you know, everyone thought it was like a little Cessna or something like that, you know, whatever. And then it came out like what it really was. and then my sister worked in the city at the time at one of the secondary towers

at the World Trade Center though. Luckily she was able to escape, get on a ferry and get away, but there was some non-contact there for a little bit so scary. But once it all settled and the reality of what it was hit home, I was sitting there,

I was like, this is crazy. Like I never experienced like any, most people hadn't, you know? I think the only time, everybody for a loop. I don't think anybody was prepared for an event of that size and nature on U.S. soil. Yeah. And it was, it was something that like hit the whole country. And the only thing I could remember remotely that I remember that mood was I was in elementary school and the Challenger exploded. I remember them wheeling the TV in on the cart. Yes. And then

watching that and then rapidly turning the TV off and wheeling the cart out. That is so crazy. I remember I was at PS60, and I remember they had this big Zenith TV that they rolled in on this with the straps. With the straps holding it down, the ratchet straps holding it to the cart. And I remember they rolled it in, and they were like, oh, we're all going to watch this and gather around children. And then it happened. And I remember the teachers looking at each other, like some of the teachers gathered. And they were like, is this supposed to be happening?

Is this? We're going to go ahead and call school for the day. We're going to, yeah, that was a rough one. I remember that. And I remember the mood after that. So that was like the only thing, and I was young. But it wasn't an attack against the nation. No.

That's what I think flipped people. That's what changed. And I remember sitting there like, I cannot believe someone did this to the United States. And I could have been in the city at that point. I had this little internship where I was working for this biometric company. And they had a showroom at the World Trade Center. that I would go to once in a blue moon. I was on the team where managing,

they were trying to do a retina scan for ATM machines, and I was on the team for that doing that, just some nerd shit. And I was like, man, I could have been there, you know? It was kind of, it, like, hit home. And I remember just sitting there on Staten Island and everything was shut down. Like, the world was shut down.

And I remember my mom, like, you know, freaking out and being like, oh, my God, thank God, you weren't in the city. And then we finally got a hold of my sister. that and she's like obviously just you know stay inside you want to so I went upstairs and I you know was watching the TV and I was just the radio and it just so happened I don't know how but I saw that book like near my stuff that was piled like by the end of the bed and I was like fuck this and it was a while before I could because everything was shut down and everything and I

I don't know how long I waited, but I went to a Navy recruiting office, and I walked in, and I walked in with vigor, where that guy who was sitting at that desk was like, oh, I got a live one. He's already checking the box for that month's quota. Ring that cash register. I walked in, and I was like, where are the pay? And he's like, all right, all right. I think for a few months after 9-11, a lot of recruiters had that experience. in all four branches. Yes.

Yeah. And because I remember it was this weird, I feel like it was at a mall and you walked in and there was like a glass front to the place. And literally it was like there was Army, Navy, and like, you know, Air Force or whatever. And I'm, like, he must have saw me

beeline past the other ones and I like went right into the Navy one and I was like, should have just, here would have been like the big dick move. You just put that book on the table and be like, this is actually written about me. I'm the man starting

in this tale. I'm the captain now. And he saw me, he was like, oh, okay. So I told him, and he's like, so you're just like a year and a half away or two years away from being like a doctor? I said, yeah, he's like, so, you know, I was of age, so I was like, yeah, I said,

this is what I want to do. He's like, when I told him my whole situation with my mom, he's like, okay, so listen, I'm going to give you some paperwork, and I give you whatever, and I looked at everything, And I was like, all right. So I remember, I'm like, well, I'm going to just add a respect. Go home and before I actually do this, I'm going to tell my mother I'm doing it. And I remember saying, I said, listen, what do I have to do that Navy SEAL program?

And he's like, oh, well, here, let me show you this thing. And he showed me. And he's like, you got to do this. He's like, well, you got to take this test. He's like, but considering your background with what you do, you know, what you studied in college, I think you'll do... Asvab, yeah. He's like, I think you're going to do well.

You'll do just fine. Even the classes that you're talking about that you enjoyed in high school and college, you do just fine with the old asvab. Yeah, I was like, okay, yeah, I could take it. I could, I could... I would have left him with another side note. If I don't come back, it's because my mother killed me. So if I disappear, just please put her down as the prime suspect.

He kind of was feeling that. So he's like, listen, I know what you got to do? And I was like, all right, so I remember I went home. and it took me like I was like I was having like a panic attack right because I was like trying to like figure out how I was going to say it and I remember my mom wasn't home and then she came home and I was like a duplex I was like upstairs and she was downstairs and I remember I went downstairs and I walked in and I was like mom I want to show you something and I showed her like the pamphlet and I remember it was like a trifold pamphlet and I feel like there were like dudes in a an inflatable raft, like, dressed in black and, like, coming out of the water and their faces were painted black, and they had, like, guns and... I know the exact picture that you're talking about. Booney hats, and I was like...

So, and she looked at that photo, and she looked at me, and she's like, no. That was... That was... That was... I was expecting the eruption. I was expecting, like, you know, like World War III. And she just looked at it, looked at it, looked at it. She didn't even touch it.

She was like, and she's like, no. And I was like, but mom, listen. And she's like, she looked at me and I was like, listen, this was when you know, whatever. And she's like, no. Like, okay. And she said, you're already killing me by not saying you don't want to be a doctor. Don't kill me by saying you're going to go now do this. This is not for you.

this is not what kids like you do this is not what intelligent bright kids do this is for people who school is not for them and becoming an engineer or a doctor is not in their wheelhouse so they have no other path to take so they go and do this and they're going to go to get shot in some country by these people who hate Americans and all this stuff that's not you you are smart enough to go have a career and I was like little did she know that the Special Operations community across all branches has more college educated enlisted people than the rest of the military. Oh, I mean, and I had done some research into it. And I knew that for those units, you had to be fucking smart. Yeah, they've reward intelligence, critical thinking,

problem solving. I was like, in my mind, I was like, I could be an asset, not only from the standpoint of what I knew from the little bit about, I had always, I just always read about advanced medical training and always because of my mom. And I was like, I could be an asset to them. Like, I'm good at science. I'm good at math. I know, like, a lot of medical stuff. I could, like, really help them. And she's like, no, you will kill me. You will kill me. You might as well just put a knife in my heart, and you'll kill me. Your mother has a doctorate in guilt trips. Oh, my God. She is a master, like, Jedi level. So I was like dejected.

So I remember like I went upstairs and I put that pamphlet in the front of Rogue Warrior and I just tucked your dreams away. Literally. I told him a bedtime story. I literally tucked my dream away. And I was like, oh, it's like, okay, you know. So I said, I'm going to, I'm going to fight this. You know what? I'm going to, I'm going to go do something to fight this.

my friend who took me in and his dad was a CB, he had become a police officer. And I remember talking to him, I'm like, that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to become a cop. So I graduated and I did a little bit more research work. And I said, I'm going to apply to be a cop. And I said, I'm going to apply to state police. Because everyone's like, you got to go to state police. You know, got to go to state police.

They're like the best of the best. They got the best resources. A guy like you with your education, whatever. And so I did. I was like, okay. So I went. So New York State Police? New Jersey.

New Jersey. Yeah. Which is an organization I know dog shit about nothing. I mean, it's pretty high speed as far as state police agencies go. But, you know, always politics involved. But it was large and they had different units that you can go to once you did your time on the road. So I said that's what I'm going to do. And then in that process, someone was telling me about this town in Jersey, South Jersey,

called Wall Township. They're like, man, these guys are like best of the best. They got the best equipment. They got the best training. So I was like, I'm going to go check them out. Because they're like, they're number one paid in the state and making good money was important to me

to make my mom get off my back a little bit. And I was like, oh, how much? And someone was like, oh, they make more than the state police. I'm like, oh, okay. But they are state police? No, they were a local town, a small town. So I was like, okay, I'm going to go do that. I'm like, all right, awesome.

So I remember I drove down there And I walked into headquarters And there was like a big glass dispatch window And it was like the record screeched And I remember I walked I walked in and like Everyone was like having conversation And then I walked in and everyone was like

And I was like hi How are you? I heard you're hiring I'm here for an application And the dude at the desk just like Looked at me for a second Like you were a fucking with him? I thought you thought I was like fucking with him. And I was like, you are hiring, right? And he's like, yeah. And I was like, may I have an application? He's like, you sure? I was like, yeah. He's like, okay. So he gave me like the packet that I needed, whatever. And, you know, this is when the physical test was coming up. And everyone talked about how hard the physical test was. And, uh, and, uh, I was like, at that point, I was already in, I was already training on my own because I thought I was going to boot camp.

So I'm like, and I wasn't a strong swimmer. So I knew that was something I had to like. Was swimming part of their test? What's that? For the police? Was swimming part of the Navy? No, I was thinking about for the Navy. Yeah, because obviously you were rug warrior part dear.

Yeah, right? So I'm like, I'm like, yeah. So I got to like become like a strong swimmer here. And the only swimming experience I had was getting my like, life saving water. rescue badge for my Eagle Scout in Boy Scouts, you know. And I was like, I know I'm not a strong swimmer, so I got to learn out of whatever. So anyway, I look at this test and I realize they have a swimming port. I'm like, what is, this town is not on the beach.

I don't think they have a body of water. Why do they have a swimming test? So it kind of made me nervous. So I started asking around, people were like, oh, bro, you're never going to pass that test. It's the hardest test in the state. It might be the hardest test in the country. I was like, you're talking about like the physical scree. screener.

Yeah. Just the basic screening test that you have to pass to continue on. To continue on. In the application process. Yeah. Okay. And I'm like, what? What do they want you to do?

They're like, oh, it's like, they're like, you know, most police departments when they test, there's one phase. You go there, you got to do some pushups, got to do some sit-ups, got to do some pull-ups. They count how many you do. And then they maybe do a timed run. They said, no, not this town. Phase one of three is you got to do all. all those things plus some, but you got to do it all in a row, and they start you off with a mile and a half run that you have to do in a certain amount of time, and then no break, they

usher you right over to as many push-ups as possible. And like the standards to pass are like pretty high. So then right after that you got to go to the next broad jump and then you next pull-ups. So then they have a couple of like little like things where like you had to pick up like a hundred pound dummy and like run with it. Oh, interesting. It was like a functional test. Yeah, it was like real.

I was like, oh, wow. And I'd never picked up anything that was 100 pounds in my life like that, like dead weight. And then they had like a 150 pound like dummy where you had to drag it through like this little like cone up and down and bring it back. People were dropping like flies. Oh, I bet. It was especially if they were considering or thinking about it was going to be the traditional test. Yeah, it was crazy. I had prepared a little bit, but I hadn't prepared to that degree.

So, but at least thank God I was in shape. I showed up to that test. There was 400 dudes waiting at the high school in the town lined up to take that test. I was the only black dude. 400 dudes that all looked like Abercrombian Fitch models. And there was me. I looked up and down that line. I was like, oh, so that is when people started telling me,

this town had the KKK based in it many years back. They've never hired a minority. What year is this? 2002. I'm surprised they could hide in plain sight like that. Yes. It was overt. They didn't try to hide it.

I think they had one woman that was there for a little while and then left shortly thereafter. And so no women, no minorities, no Hispanics, no Asians, no nothing, just white dudes. That's a diversity nightmare. Yeah. And the town pretty much was like that. And they, I guess, were maybe trying to keep the town like that. So when I went there in late 01, early 2002, I couldn't, I'm like, it's 2002. There's no diversity in this whole police department.

So I was, and then people were, so when I started telling people I was preparing for that town's test, they were like, bro, you're never going to get hired there. And I remember hearing this like in high school, like when I was like trying to, you know, run for senior class president. People were like, you're never going to get voted president. So, you know, everything in life, you're never going to, you know, so here again, I was in another situation where you're never going to hire there. They've never hired there. They've never hired anyone, any minority. They don't even like hire women there. Like, what are you crazy? And you got to know the mayor, you got to know the chief and whatever. I'm like, I'm going to go for it. I'm going to come out number one. So I took the test and I passed. There was a written test in there somewhere, which, of course, I passed easily.

and then after that first phase where people were dropping and like they had the paramedics there it was bad it was a bad scene it was a bad thing you want to talk about dudes that were not in shape you want to talk about dudes that look like they were in shape yeah show muscles show muscles which they were not in shape i was like oh man so um then i got invited to phase two phase two was swimming and it was the pool test i was like okay i didn't know a lot about it but i tried to ask different people about it and they're like oh it's bad i'm like like what do you got to do and I'm like they're like they throw you in a pool I said okay why is there a pool test for a police officer I said like think about the Navy I get it I said there's

like there's no water in this town there's like a pond but you got to think you go walk across it and they're like no they apparently had a dive team I'm like for what like the puddles so anyway I found out what was on the pool test and it was you know you got a tread water for 20 minutes and then you got to go down to the bottom of the pool I don't know if you were blindfolded and retrieve certain objects

I don't know if you were blindfolded or not don't quote me on that maybe you could maybe you could you could you know see I don't remember and then you had to go up and back like 200 yards maybe it was like 100 yards down or you know whatever

and then maybe you had to do the tread and water whatever so I was fine with everything except the treading water because I sink like a rock. So I was like, okay. So I, at least you knew it to prepare for it. Yeah, so I prepared, I trained, I did what I needed to do, and I made it. And that was just pass-fail, you know. And that was all the phase two was the pool?

That was all phase two. Okay. And then- How many are we at now from this 400? How many made it to phase two? I think maybe only like maybe 150. Oh, wow. Yeah, over 50% already wiped.

Yeah, okay. So after phase two, you got to wait to see if you got invited to phase three. See, after phase one, you have to wait to see if you get invited to phase two after phase two. So then I got, it was like, I don't know how much time went by, and then I got invited to phase three. Phase three was physical combat. And I was like, okay.

I like this phase. I was like, tell me more. What is going on here? You'll need to bring your own steed and lance. This will be a duel. Yes. Choose your weapon wisely. I was like, okay.

And they were like, so how it works is we pair you up with someone who's similar size. And at that time, I wasn't like into lifting weight, so I was pretty lean and lanky. And for two minutes, you go on the mat. And I saw wrestling mats and I was like, oh, because I wrestled growing up. I'm like, oh, okay, I got this. For two minutes, you and your partner are going to go on the mat. he has a gun belt on with a fake gun, and you are the bad guy.

You have to try to get that gun away from him. And it was like no holds bar. This is an interesting test as part of a selection process, in my opinion. This is really bizarre. Bizarre. Phase one and two I can kind of get. Phase three, absent any training,

we're going to give you a belt that you would be issued later on with a weapon and just have you guys beat the fuck out of each other. Fight it out. Interesting. And no closed hand striking. And of course, like, you know, no biting and nothing to the groin. Have there any other, like, objective measurements, or were they just standing there watching you guys go to town?

Just stand there, and they were all yelling at you, screaming at you. At every phase, there was guys yelling at you and screaming at you. During phase one, during the pool phase, just people yelling at you, screaming at you, berating you. Very interesting. And then, you know, phase two. three. So I remember I got on the mat with this guy, tall, lanky guy like me, and I'm like, this is a final phase. And at this point, there was only like, I don't know, definitely under 100 dudes left, maybe only like 80, 75, 80, maybe way less. So I said it's on, all right? So I remember

he was the bad guy first. I had the gun. And I just, and I didn't know what he was. And I didn't know what to expect because no one knew about this. So I said, well, if I just lean on the gun, he can't get it. So I just use one hand to push him off and I just kind of lean on the gun. And for two minutes, I just kept swatting him away. And he wasn't able to get it. So the pass is, the ultimate pass is retention of your weapon. Retention of your weapon. And then on the other side, if you get the weapon, you know, so then that was two minutes. It was like the longest two minutes of my life. And then we switched.

He got the gun and I had to try to get it away from him. And I was able to get the gun out of the holster. He still had like a hand on it, but I got it out of the holster. And so I figured I was like, all right, I'm like, I'm pretty good. People were getting, people were getting jacked up. People were like, you know, collarbone. It was like. That's what I'm saying.

This is really bizarre. People had dislocated shoulders. It was really crazy. So. Sounds like great YouTube content, though. Oh, my God. Or even like 60 second Instagram, that would be spectacular. And I didn't grow up fighting.

I grew up wrestling, so I had a little bit of a base. The people who were around me, you could just tell that most of them had never been on a map. Cat out of water. Oh, yeah. Or in water, however that saying goes. Or it's a fish out of water. Why the hell did I just say cat? I did.

I said cat out of water. It's been a long day. So, you know, I made it out. And then got to the background phase, which took like months and months and months forever. And then a psych phase and all this stuff. And ultimately, the guy I actually wrestled with, fought with the gun, he got hired before me. And I found out he got hired through like some people who knew him. So I figured, well, if he got hired, you're a shoeing.

I mean, I got to make it. I didn't hear anything. I didn't hear anything. I'm like, well, I beat him. So how could like, you know, I found out he ended up being working at the bar that the chief and the captain used to go to. That wouldn't make a difference. So there'd be no undue influence there. Absolutely not.

And he got hired with the bartender at that bar who would take care of that time, the chief and the captain and make them their drinks, whatever. So those two guys got hired. And I was like, oh man, I said, whatever. So I guess I didn't get hired. Months later, you know, I'm home. I'm like a loser. My mom's like, go get a freaking job. I didn't know what to do.

I left that research job because 9-11 happened or whatever. So I got a job at Lowe's Home Improvement. And I was there for like 11 months. I started stocking shelves on the midnight shift so I could take time to take police tests and did that test. And I ended up becoming store manager within like 11 months because it wasn't hard. It wasn't too tough. Like, you know, you have your act together. You're squared away.

I feel like you can handle it. Yeah. And so, and I was like a kid. I was like, fuck, I forgot. I was in your early 20s.

Yeah. And I like, handed the keys to the store. I was like, this is crazy. And then I got a call one day out of the blue. My assistant, my secretary said,

I was out helping on some customer issue. And she's like, you got a call from a lieutenant so-and-so? I'm like, what? I had already, I thought I was not getting hired. And so,

I called him back and he's like hey how are he this is a lieutenant so-and-so I was like oh hey how are you and they'd come and they'd talk to my friend's family who kind of helped raise me I told them I said listen you could talk to my mom but she's crazy and she doesn't want me doing this and the detectives were cool they were like so who are these other people I was like oh man they're great they raised me you know they took me in they're like we'll go talk to them and also please don't talk to my mom I said, do I mention I'm talking to my mom? Let's open and close with this very important fact.

You cannot speak to my mother. I said it's for your own good. I believe me, it's for your own good. And they were like, yes, got it. Probably not the first time they've heard that, actually. No, no, you know. So they got it, and they were cool, and they talked to everyone in that town.

They talked to everyone in that town. And asking if I was a good kid, they talked to the postman, you know, the postman. So I, he called me. He's like, You know, I'd like to extend an offer of employment. And I was, like, shocked. I was like, wow.

How many months after you taking that final test? About a year. And how soon did that guy you were wrestling get fired? No, he got hired. Sorry. He was hired immediately after that test. He went to the academy. So within a few months.

Yeah. So he... Interesting delay in time there. Yeah. So he got hired almost immediately, and he went through the academy. me he was in the class before me okay so um so I had to go through a psych eval which was crazy I've done it it's bizarre it's so bizarre the written test the I did the written and the computer test is the pole vault your favorite televised event I remember that question to this day

you can't say yes or no strongly agree strongly disagree right it was like it was kind of agree Kind of disagree. It was the most bizarre series of written questions. And then it was followed by, and it was all in a row, so I was there for like three hours. And then it was this computer thing where there was questions like, how many times were you on the cover of Time magazine in the last three years? Six. Of course.

So I literally, I was like, looking around, I'm like, are they fucking with me? Is they fine? What I was supposed to? And I'm like, zero. Like, it was like, yeah, it's really weird. Those tests are bizarre. So then after you get done, this dude who looks like Sigmund Freud, I would never forget his name, Dr. White, sits in front of you and, like, asks you questions,

and he's looking at your answers. He's like, so, tell me about this. And I'm like, and you're like nervous. Like, you don't want to say anything because you're like, I don't want to say anything like makes me sound crazy. I don't think I'm crazy, but these two things I just did are making me questions. in life like you know I eat chicken with a fork and a spoon or like some crazy shit I'm like what what is this gauging so anyway I got done with him and I was like oh my god so that all went through and then then there was like the oral board where you go in front of like the captains and the

lieutenants and sergeants and I remember waiting in the lobby I had my suit and tie on and you know I remember I was sitting there and there was two dudes there before me and they came out and they took the first dude and like, you know, 35, 45 minutes later, he came out. He looked like he'd just like, you know, been like in a serious interview. And then the next dude went and maybe like 45 minutes later, he came out. Just looking mauled. Just like looking like, like dejected. Like he just spent an hour with my mom.

Yeah. You know, and I was like, I'm like, well, I got this. You know, my mom's been beating me up for years. You know, it's verbal abuse. I could, you know, what are they going to do? So I prepared the best I could. I went in there, I was in there for three hours. Shit.

They were trying to get anything and everything on me. They just made stuff up and I, until like, and they were like, and I just wouldn't break. They're like, oh, tell us about this. Tell us about this. Tell us about this weapons offense. I'm like, that never happened. And like, I remember the lieutenant, like, he's like, are you calling me a liar? I'm looking at it right here.

I'm like, that never happened. No, I don't know what you're talking about. And then, like, they would just kind of just try to break you. Three hours. Longest interview in, like, that department's history. So finally I got hired. And I realized very early on what I had gotten myself into. It was very apparent that they didn't want me there.

But because of, I think, how I did, I think they couldn't not hire me. They didn't have grounds to dismiss you for any reason. Right. Thank you again. to Duke Cannon for supporting the cleared hot podcast. And for the listeners, you can get 10% off your entire order at Duke Cannon.com when you use the promo code cleared hot plus free shipping on orders over $25. Food for thought. Christmas is right around the corner.

And I, hopefully my kids don't listen to this, am going to fill stockings with a lot of their stuff. And perhaps that would be a good idea for you too. See you all next week.