Cleared Hot - Powered By BRCC - Episode 157 - Evan Hafer and Trevor Thompson

Episode Date: December 7, 2020

Evan Hafer is the founder and CEO of Black Rifle Coffee. Prior to his love affair with coffee, he served as a contractor with the Central Intelligence Agency as well as serving in the United States Army as a Special Forces Soldier (Green Beret). Trevor Thompson is an ex-Navy SEAL, skydiver, BASE jumper, photographer, bowhunter, exercise aficionado and all-around renaissance man. Secret Black Rifle Coffee code for 20 percent off a one time order: AndyCEO

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house let's talk about my guest today two very good friends evan hafer and trevor thompson evan hafer to some is known as the founder of black rifle coffee to many i am known as the original founder but I'm not going to argue with Evan on this medium. All right, I'm going to let him have it. So founder of Black Rifle Coffee, CEO, former Green Beret, former Central Intelligence Agency contractor, coffee aficionado, businessman, entrepreneur, love the guy to death.

And then there's Trevor Thompson, who is a Renaissance man by all descriptions and definitions. Met him when we were serving in the military, jumped together on the jump team. We have skydived together. We've bass jumped together. He was also a seal specializing a little bit more in the SDV or seal delivery vehicle realm. It's a fucking artist and outdoorsman.

It's ridiculous. And he is, I love the fact he dives so deep on the things that he gets into. So I'm going to shut up now. You guys have heard us talk enough. Episode 157 with the men themselves. Evan Hafer and Trevor Thompson. Enjoy. I'm looking at danger close now.

All right, you cockwobbles. What are you guys going to talk about? Wow. Holy shit. So what type of sponsorship package did Kyle Rittenhouse get from Black Rife for Coffee? Was it just a discount code or was it a yearly sponsorship? Wow. What a shitstorm.

Talk about pissing off everybody in the country at one 48-hour week. How did you become aware of that whole thing playing itself out? I woke up or rolled out of bed Saturday morning I well hold on let me let me back this up a little bit which is I don't know why in the fuck

anyone in their right mind wants to listen to me to begin with like like I find it entertaining I am literally wearing a shirt with a van on it it has a dream catcher and Matt Best riding an elk

a cobra a wolf and a desert scene. Like, when did I become somebody that people would even want to listen to outside of a couple different things, which is, I love to roast coffee. Like, I mean, I think that's fairly obvious. And roast your friends.

Yeah. I'm like, holy fuck. I don't know why people, I don't know why they even want to hear what the fuck I got to say. I feel the same way at a podcast. Not exactly sure why people tune in. I appreciate the fact that they

do. However, I'm still surprised by it. Yeah, so I rolled out of bed Saturday morning, and I could just, just a landslide of customer service inquiries and things of people just, what the fuck, why are you guys doing this? And, you know, which there's one side of the country that thinks that it was, it was like, you know, the woke mob. And I'm like, no, it was just normal people going, this is super fucked up. Like, why are you guys sponsoring this? Absent, almost any actual information, correct, they were making that assessment. So there were thousands of people making a section, or some type of an assumption. And, like, I had to correct that. It was super easy. I just was like,

hey, we don't sponsor them. Like, I mean, seemed pretty cut and dry. It wasn't as if, like, we were sitting around in a boardroom. It was like me and Logan Stark, a couple fucking knuckle draggers. We just got to make a statement and make sure everybody knows. Dude, I knew shit was sideways when I checked my phone and there was an email an all-hands email that says, if you're contacted by the press. I'm like, what in the

fuck is going on on the internet? You guys sent out an all-handser? Oh, yeah. Why didn't you guys just forward the press my phone number? Yeah, we should have. Because I hopped in on your personal thread. I had, what I wanted to, I was looking for a chance. I saw that.

To write into somebody and say, hey, just because you're expert at eating ass doesn't mean you have to be an asshole but I couldn't find the correct comment to attach that to so instead I just some random comment I'm just like fired for effects I was like no like this is both and people like well you guys are just friends and both of you can attest to this I'm fucking harder on my friends than anybody else like way harder oh yeah well here's the thing I expect no quarter from my friends I expect if I'm fucking up to be told that I'm fucking up and God help you if you are my friend and you fuck up because I will fucking each

demolish I am I am I am afraid of one troll on the internet not there's one he's sitting across the desk right now that's the one

live and in person and that's the thing people are like oh you're just blinded I'm like I'm not blinded like you guys let's use the word to use you're telling me that I'm blinded could you even fucking find a mirror

right now yeah well you know people are like well these are just your friends I'm like, okay, and those are the people that know me best. I mean, those are people who know me best. Those are the people that if I was doing something wrong would get a hold of me personally and say, hey, Evan, you're being a total idiot.

Yeah. Which is, there's a good percentage chance that I'm being an idiot. Yeah. A good percentage of the time. And isn't that what the press is supposed to do? Don't they go to the people closest to that person to find out what the truth of the matter is? And then the second somebody speaks up like, no, no, no, back up, you're too close to, ID this issue.

Well, in PR, like, they screwed me, right? They put out this fucking news article that was like, you know, Man, they gen that up fast. No, no, they did. And that's to be expected, right? Like, there's no, there's no love lost from me and the left. I mean, I've been in a fight with those guys for five plus fucking years over everything. You know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's just one of those things where you're just trying to talk rationally to people, you know, about what you're

doing about what you do and you can't you can't get through I mean just yeah the name alone inside so much fucking well you guys are a second amendment company which is it what that conversation with my initial point degraded into people saying that I had lost the force for the trees because you guys are all too a and I'll be the first to admit guess what black rifle is in the name sure it's founded by veterans it's a huge portion of their marketing and my point back is if the second amendment goes away I'm pretty sure your coffee sales are going to be just fine. Well, it doesn't mean you're not peripheral to the Second Amendment community, which I would

totally agree with, but let's be clear about what a 2A company is. In my mind, we're talking weapons and ammo manufacturer, company like the NRA, a single issue organization, and I mean, I'm sure I could think of more if I had more time to think about it, but those are direct 2A companies. Yeah, they serve the exact industry, whereas, you know, the genesis of my company has always been we don't make guns yeah I make coffee I mean I was dragging around like the funny thing is this is this is actually make me audit I think a lot of the the history and evolution of the company which I think is a good thing right where you know as a guy

that was slinging around carbines for the majority of my life for a profession that's what I did right it's like I went from SF and then I went to the CIA for nine years and then I spent the last couple years there just trying to teach people how to shoot more effectively in special operations guys not like guys that hadn't thrown around carbine so this was in my DNA I love you know part of the things that I really love is shooting really fucking fast and I love race pistols race rifles like I remember back in the day man I was walking around shot show before I had black rifle I'd come out to look at new gear and things like like that.

And just talking to people because back then, you know, nobody knew who the fuck I was, but there's my community. They're my people. And then the next or two years later, I was dragging around a duffel bag because I was roasting coffee like one pound at a time. And I'd made a bunch of samples. I'd made a bunch of samples. And I was like, I was still teaching pistol carving courses, roasting coffee and dragging

around a duffel bag handing out samples trying to give this shit away to people it's a cool reflex dude do you want some coffee yeah they they were like get the fuck out of here loser like all these guys were like get the fuck out of here loser like they're like oh yeah coffee okay real original douchebag you know and then get the fuck out of here and for me i'm like i i i was trying before any of this stuff just to basically have a business that combined two things that really loved. And, you know, so without going into the entire Genesis, obviously, you guys know, but it's like linking up with Matt and Jared and looking at what we were doing on the entertainment side, it was like, oh, fuck, this is super funny, right? Like, this is really fucking funny. And all we

were doing was just trying to make people laugh and fucking roast great coffee. That was it. and we were trolling other people to include like, you know, the, that would, they weren't really necessarily called woke people, but we were just trolling people, basically. And, uh, which was super fun. I mean, that, that was fun. Still is. Still is. Yeah. It still fucking is. You're right. But, you know, to answer your question, man, like, to have this audit and kind of look at the genesis of this, and it's like, uh, we turned it more into veterans,

space company because it was one of those things where all of us were vets we saw what was happening in the community we really saw what was happening to every every one of us i mean all of us are vets so it just became more more about how do we point this thing in the direction of doing good versus just making stupid videos right so because actually a point as it was growing we're like we got to fucking get our shit together and we got to point this thing at good and really and really and really drive it forward for the betterment of our subculture and our people. But it's interesting to me because people always say, well, you know, you guys are a 2A company. And it's like, no, the company's 400 people.

It's separate from me now, right? It's his own thing. And I'm a 2A guy. I don't think, you know, I'm not here to like flash my fucking 2A credentials. I don't think I have to. but it's weird for me because people are like, well, you guys are supposed to be, you know, chiming in on this.

I'm like, dudes, we make dick jokes on the internet, like the equivalent of it and we rose coffee. Like, go to your fucking, you know, NRA or some of these other organizations and then hold them accountable. I was, I think I was shocked the most by it, by one, the speed with which people developed a concrete opinion.

Yeah. Like just the rapidness of being so incredibly sure of what had had had. happened, absent really any concrete information. And how much they were reaching out. I got some nasty grams. Well, that and the expectation. My dad did.

I'm like, what in the fuck is going on? The rapidity with where they, I think that's a word rapidity, the speed with which they got to their opinion. And then two, the demands that, you know, like I was scrolling through your feed and people like, answer this specific question. In my terminology, it's like, who the fuck are you to demand that an individual, yes, you're the founder of the organization? But when did it get to a point where if I don't use the exact words that you want? And then I have to scroll through more and use the exact words that somebody else.

Like, where did that level, I mean, that's a little bit of an entitlement attitude, I would say. No, there's a significant amount of entitlement. So, you know, you've got a portion of the country that believes that if you don't do exactly, what they say, they can hold you accountable through, you know, intimidation, basically. And it's like, this is my company, you know, I've heard so many false fucking bullshit in the last, like, just the bullshit in the last week of, you know, people making videos about, you know, me and there's all these conspiracy theories and all these fuck crazy things. I'm like, dudes, my wife makes fun of me half the time.

Like, if you think I'm that sophisticated to do this, like my kids are reading faster than me. this point or have enough time yeah or that I have you have two little kids in a company with 400 people I don't have time to like layer in and build my entire life like the conspiracy theory shit is like mind-bloanes me because throwing out there um I'm a I'm a democratic operative I've heard this one I'm like okay so I've spent my entire adult life I might have started lying to I just think it's like, dude, I was telling this to somebody. I was like, then I've spent my entire adult life lying to everybody to include my dad and everybody else just to make a $500 donation. Just to be.

So I've hired 400 people. The $500 mentor and candidate. And it's like, you know, we're not perfect. The donation one brings up an interesting point, though, too, because why, this is something I don't understand. Sure. People who will drive their entire. life philosophy based on only one issue. Like why can't you...

It's a single issue voters, right? And that's part of the problem. But why can't you be more nuanced than that? It's crazy. I mean, well, nuance. I use that word. I use that word responding to something. And some guy chimed in and goes,

that's a leftist word. And I'm like, you guys are pushing us into an Orwellian fucking nightmare. You can't use specific words or you're going to identify with the left or the right. And you're like, oh, my God. Look, Evan, that's newspeak. You can't use that. that word exactly and like i know it might be uh uh it's and i'm not and i'm not but heard about it i'm not

even like trying to be defensive because at the end of the day it's something you can't really explain to people in 120 characters it's something that i don't even want to attempt to explain it's like the company is separate from evan hafer evan hafer is the guy that you know runs the company but there's a lot of other people that help me run the company there's tom daven over there there's matt best and there's all my other guys that are running this over here and And it's like, there's not a grand conspiracy. It's just a bunch of former mill guys roasting coffee and making stupid videos trying to hire a bunch of vets. Like, it's not too sophisticated at the end of the day.

It's really not. But anyway. It caught me off guard. That whole situation did for sure. Oh, it caught me flat foot. And I wasn't on the receiving end. It caught me flat footed. I expected something like this from the left.

I did. I was like, fuck those guys. You know what I mean? I expected something from that because they're kind of notorious for just wanting to like, you know, cancel specific businesses. I expected it. I think that was the one like, I was like, okay. Hey, the 2A guys, those are my, those are my homies.

Like, oh my gosh, you know, especially like after being part of the shooting community and the things that. Or just the tactical world. The tactical world. And I guess that's probably easier. And there's what I've realized is there are different. layers of the community too, right? So there are the tactical guys and the professional shooting community. And then there's the tactical larpers.

You've got a ton of tactical larpers. And I come from a specific background with this more, it's more tactical guy driven. And I've never really been exposed to people that weren't, you know, professional shooters. Professional shooters. To be honest with you A lot of the stuff that And a lot of the people that we Affiliate with

They're Former team guys Most of the guys in the company Yeah And it's most of the guys in the company Like it's like Logan's a sniper Matt's a Ranger

Jared was an Air Force guy He doesn't really count You know Sixth branch just underneath Space Force Like we have our own 100 yard range With like a steel garden I bought rifles for the entire company You know like

It's like I've never expected that one to come. I was like, okay, well, I guess, you know, as you're digging out and kind of, which is like, it's another whole thing where they're trying to docks me on certain things. And they're like, oh, well, you voted or you donated to this campaign or that campaign. I'm like, all right, sure, you guys got me. But whatever. It's unfortunately the result of what campaign you donated to.

These guys do because they're single, they're single issue voters. Well, it's because of this is the logical conclusion. of what's been going on in the last eight or nine months, which is if you don't believe in X issue, you are the enemy and you are voting for the other team. And I say team because it's turned into a sporting event. So how did we get to here? Well, I think, where it became that.

I think I saw this, I think I saw this coming like several years ago. I mean, I don't know. I'm sure a lot of us saw some of this. Well, yeah, you're an operative. Yeah, exactly, right? At the team meeting. the team meeting no I could kind of see some of this happening

I think social media is definitely it's driving it's increased the division and the company it's also increased company or country or sorry country it's it's you don't own the whole fucking country well no I sure don't that's phase two

yeah phase two phase two stand by it's like like I'm fucking we're in pre-lost Dorsey or Jeff Bezos it's like fuck man I live in the same house I've had for I don't know fucking lie like what are you guys talking about um no I think I think it's a rapid acceleration a gaslighting and ultimately a group of people that

are siloed and they're in their own echo chamber and they're they're spinning each other faster and faster and faster and faster and they can't come out they can't come out for a breath of fresh air and think oh well I know my neighbor is a Democrat or a Republican or a Republican looking but it's my neighbor and he's pretty cool or she's pretty cool and i'm just going to hang out they put my packages into my house when i'm gone yeah like i was at i was at a i was at a barbecue uh believe it or not it was a barbecue i wasn't wearing a fucking mask i know rule breaker super spreader um and a bunch of people from my neighborhood were together we had our kids together actually it was Halloween in it because we weren't doing trick-or-treat that's the one day you're

supposed to wear a mask yeah well i know i was wearing a batman you're so contrary I was wearing a batman. That goes over the wrong part. I'm going to wear the only mask that doesn't cover my nose or my mouth. Batman. And my neighbors are more, you know, of the left-leaning.

Left-leaning. But my other neighbor, he owns Alpha Munitions, and he's one of my best, I would say one of my better friends in the neighborhood. And we were sitting there. We're all talking.

Like, we're just like shooting the shit and kind of getting a little bit political just the way things go. And Tom and I are, pseudo-preppers for a lack of a better term, like we've got all the shit. And we're like, hey, you guys, when things go down, don't, don't worry, you can come to our house. We'll take care of you. Like, I know you guys are, I know you guys are, and it's so funny because we were talking about it where I have like a collection of Nerf guns at the house because I let my daughters play with Nerf guns because I'm not a douche.

and nobody else, at times in the neighborhood, they don't have Nerf guns to play with. So all the other kids, the boys, they're like three and four years older than my daughters. They'll be in the backyard playing in my backyard. And I'm like, my daughter's upstairs. I'm like, hey, fuck you guys doing. I'm like, we're just playing Nerf guns.

I'm like, let me get mine. Oh, no. Mr. Haver's getting his gun. Ride. But Tom and I were talking about it. We were talking about, you know, our neighbors. and we all had the same interest, by the way. We want safety for our families.

We want to raise our children. We want to educate them. We want, you know, to ultimately create these incredible experiences for them. And oh, by the way, none of those guys that we're talking to are anti-fucking gun guys. None of them. They're like, ah, we get it. It's just like, ah, they're a little bit intimidating. Tommy are like, hey, you can go to the range.

You can get some training. I know this guy, this guy, this guy. And they're like, yeah. I could see how you'd want one, especially when this fucking country is so crazy right now with, you know, defund the police narratives. And, you know, with COVID, we might not be able to respond in time. You've got all this like lunacy happening. There's just a lot of people that are fucking keyed up, ready to go. But most people want the same things.

Like they just kind of want to, they want to be cool with each other. They want to raise their kids. and then you have fractions that are like fuck it burn it all down you're like Anarchy Hey man it's pretty cool

It's a really good system I don't think we need to reset everything just yet It's an interesting time There's a lot of people screaming for anarchy And burn it down and revolution That have never seen it in person Or the result of I think it's just a small loud group of people

I think they're just loud That's all it takes though But yeah I would agree with you Like I don't know about you guys The people that I know who are the most capable of violence are the ones who are looking for the least. Yeah. Yeah. Or people who have been in places where infrastructure collapses and you're at a fourth or fifth world country that's been ruled by the stick for fucking generations.

We talked about this in the truck. Nobody's like, hey, we should build our system like that. The people who have experienced that, I don't know. The defund the police thing, do we really need to have this experiment? No. I mean, it's so insane. We're about to watch what's going to happen in L.A. It's insane to me.

That entire conversation. Oh, they yanked sex trafficking, special crimes. I can't remember the rest of the list. But they took the easiest ones to get off the table for the department. That's what they grabbed. For it budgetary-wise and reallocated? So, I mean, I wish we lived in a world where everybody would just follow the rules because they're like, oh, the rules actually help our society continue to move forward.

And I wish that we lived in a place where you didn't have to have people standing on the correct side of the rules. But we don't live there. I go back and forth, right? I have this internal debate and dialogue with myself all the time. And, you know, because I think I am a libertarian at heart in the essence of it, which is I think a smaller government is, it gives people the ability to have more of their individual freedom, right? And then you give people more freedom, which means they have to assume more responsibility for their actions. And that's where I start to get stuck and kind of stalled out because humans don't want to take responsibility for their own.

I was going to say they probably want as much freedom as you'll give them, but they're going to have a problem with the second step. They're going to have a, and as a society, we're all going to have a problem with this because you've got one group of people that are, and I wouldn't say one, you've got this really fucking eclectic, 350 million people. You've got this loud group of people that are saying more government, more government, more government, more government. They don't necessarily say more government. They say, you know, we need to fund these initiatives. And what they don't necessarily understand, and I think people that have worked for the government, such as the three of us,

I don't want the government to run my health care. The VA has been part of my fucking health care life for, I don't know, the last six years. And then before that, it was military health care. I want everybody that is saying that to go try to get an appointment with the VA. let them experience maybe looking to the DMV to get a fucking health you know everybody hates that experiment yeah or just ask any vet you might know or encounter if they've had a weird

experience you know like my buddy got a ball taken off when he had a fucking knee injury or something like it was crazy they took his fucking testicle so far everything seems relatively logical and up front yeah yeah i was just thinking maybe they fixed his knee while they chopping his ball. I'm surprised they didn't take both of them. Just like make him a eunuch. They were paying. This is going to help your knee. We're going to take these balls off you. You know what's hurting your knee? Testosterone. Let me go ahead and snip, snip. You're good. Like the horror story's involved with. And sometimes people have great experiences with the VA, but I would say it's not the norm. That would be the anomaly. I like the idea of having people

experiencing trying to get a critical medical appointment via the DMV. That would be a good one. I want people to just think of government service and then think, okay, if the DMV ran this, this is what the experience would look like. If the DMV ran your grocery store. Correct. That's what I want people to think about because think about how fucked up that place is and you've got people with their pockets of authority when you have.

when you have I would say you know government employees that know they can't get fired and they've got a position of authority with a repetition a job of repetition you can treat people however the fuck they want yeah they can't get fired so and there's no benefit for them to increase their work put through or you know their workload no so it's like people are screaming for government run health care it's like that's not what I want that sounds we have it a lot of us have it People will, I encounter the 9-11 was an inside government job often. And I, first off, so many times. First off, I laugh very heartily because I would love for the government to try to keep that a secret, to try to set that up.

I think you and I have talked about this. I mean, you worked at the agency where people think is the fucking genesis of Jason Bourne. He's not fucking there. He's not there. I think the agency actually funds those movies. just to give people the perception that they're really fucking squared away. It's a bunch of Jason Bumbleheads running amok. Dude.

And it's like, dude, the fucking government is not capable of loading those buildings with explosives. No. Secretly at fucking nighttime. No. Getting all that shit to happen and you're telling me nobody's come forward, you've obviously never worked for the government. No. I always explain this to people. I'm like, you have to think about the American intelligence apparatus as a, you know,

as a 18th century wooden ship. It floats, kind of works, but there's water coming in that bitch all the time. Like, it does not actually work. There's some kid in the basement, plug it holes all day. Yeah, it's like, dude. Except for maybe on the cyber side. Yeah, no, no.

I think there are some, I think there's some incredible people. And this isn't me just playing this. He didn't say the sales didn't work. It's true. There are aspects of the boat it works. Or the navigational suite. Hey, man, you got to see. Sextant, that shit's pretty cool. That's like

Cag. You know, Delta would be like the bathroom. It probably works because you can throw your butt over the edge. I don't know. I'm just saying You're spitball in here. Yeah, I'm a spitball. I'm just throwing ideas. I'm just throwing ideas. See, that sticks against the wall. The biggest thing that I think

the government is capable of doing that people are paying attention to is the cyber side, the lack of security and that got out of hand really fast. Yeah, the lack of security or just to have the ability to have information that the government is not taking a look at. That shit, I think, would absolutely

surprise people. Like, I remember my thoughts on this have shifted. I remember when Snowden first came out, I was like, you fucking piece of shit. Yeah. And now I look back and like, damn, man. We watched that here together. And both of us said the same thing. Like, holy shit. Yeah. And, you know,

if what I have watched is accurate, he did what he could to protect sources and make sure that people weren't burned. But he also burned the programs that were illegal in snooping on American citizens. It's like, you know what? I'm glad that he did that.

And if it's accurate, man, did that dude try his damnedest to get somebody else to do it? Yeah. He's like, I'm at the bottom of this totem pole. Why am I trying to push it over? Like, somebody at the top should be tipping this shit over. But that's the thing I really, and I've ranted about this for years where there's no government accountability, right? The guys that were actually in charge of this, they never get fucking thrown in jail.

They never get rolled up and put in jail. They get sent to a different three-letter agency. Yeah, different three-letter agency. And I think that's what people refer to as the swamp, right? It's actually mid- and high-level bureaucrats that that's the swamp. And, you know, that's what people are up against. When we look at the power institutions and the institutions that continue to directly gain from that control, a lot of these people

they just they really want to push their own agenda through their individual position a great example of that is the ATF randomly like a month or so ago they just declared a the pistol brace just some

fucking half-wit bureaucrat somewhere was like oh well hey the pistol brace is now illegal this one's now illegal turn them into SBRs right yeah so they made 4,000 people criminals overnight so some guy with the fucking

Let's discuss this one. Bang. Let's discuss this one. I'm not saying that the ATF, I'm putting no value judgment on it. Let's talk about an SBR. I'm going to talk about shit that I don't know. And I'm going to make really opinionated states. Well, here's the thing.

When it comes to the Second Amendment, right? This is the number one comment that I guarantee you will be in my DMs when this episode comes out. Shall not infringe. Shall not infringe. I'm like, okay, I get that. What was the design of the pistol brace? Do any of you guys know why it was created in the first place? I think originally it was to stabilize the pistol with the forearm.

Correct. Which is another way of saying we're going to give you something that looks like a buttstock. But because we word it as a forearm brace instead of a buttstock, it's a pistol instead of an SBR. Which I love because you're playing the ATF's fucking stupid game. Like I said, I'm putting no value judgment on it. And bump stocks is another one. It was from my understanding introduced. people with handicaps could, you know, enjoy shooting.

I'm like, enjoy shooting with a replication of full. Again, no value judgment. I just wish we could have open and upfront conversations. Like, what are you trying to do? Are you trying to get this very short-barreled rifle-caliber pistol to be legal by using words to navigate around the system? If you tell me, yes, I'm still going to say, okay, I'm not a lawyer, but at least we're having an honest conversation about what you're doing.

No, but it's everybody, I think wanting to kind of pretend that this isn't what's happening, right? And it's, there's no love loss for me specifically in reference to these ridiculous fucking definitions as to what's an SBR, what isn't an SBR, what's legal and what isn't, what's a semi. And I think the danger being what just happened, one day what is legal, it's not COVID. one day to it is legal yeah be legal well for instance a short pillared rifle right like at some point there were people who just wanted a short rifle

because they wanted a short rifle and then some bureaucrat decided that's really dangerous that needs a tax stamp you're gonna be a felon if you own one now and they just gave it an arbitrary length like it's X now it's a short barrel rifle

like okay but it's in that and that's I think that's the thing what the fuck is going on what people are are what people want to discuss is why like what what fucking planet did you why did you fly in from and just decide this is the this is what constitutes short or this is that's what i'm interested yeah where are you making this decision like be honest with me about why you wrote this law be honest with me about why you created this piece of equipment which on the outside

really looks like you're trying to skirt this law and if you're just honest with me about that i'd have a understanding and appreciation like can we just put the cards on the fucking table I mean have a conversation because it's the government because it's the government it doesn't fucking make sense that's why I keep that's what I've been arguing about it like dudes we don't need more people not making sense involved in our lives like we see it we see it every day that we've been in this COVID fucking mess with these morons like oh we got to fucking like we just experienced it you got to wear your mask in the restaurant as you're walking to your table, but then you can take your mask off.

So I'll describe this. We went to a restaurant in town. We walked to the table. I was standing at the chair I was going to sit in, and a woman walked up to our table and said, you need to have a mask on to come in here. Probably nine feet. Nine feet. It was nine feet. And to be clear, I did not have a mask on me. I'm not fucking making a value judgment on masks or not. What I'm talking about is thought process. I'm sitting at the chair that I'm going to say. sit down in. And I said, if I sit down, do I still need a mask? And she said, yes, you need a mask to come in here, but I'm already in here standing at the seat. And then you gave me an extra mask. We sat down and we moved on. And I made the comment to you, like, there's some leaps and logic here.

And again, I'm not trying to say that I was correct in what I did. What I'm trying to say is, like, it's okay if I just sit. Like, that makes everything okay. Like, what the fuck are we doing here? Like, there's, we need to either be serious or not. Oh, like the story you were telling about the man who literally had a lace mask. No, he was, he had a knitted mask. You could see his fucking mouth from behind it. And this dude's walking through the airport. And then we all have to like pretend this is a real mask that's doing something.

And we're all just expected to go in with this thing and go. Wait, you mean like the, hey, don't question anything. I think I think the woman today wanted me to walk back out, put a mask on and walk back in. I know. I know she did. That's what you wanted. I don't, I don't get it. And I don't know if you guys caught this.

What she said was, we have to comply or we're going to get shut down. And then the health inspector came in. Correct. With the mask under his nose. Correct. With a clipboard. And that's what I'm telling you guys. Obese.

Number one risk factor associated so far with COVID fatality. Yeah. Obesity. Well, you can't say that. You can't say that. I'm sorry. He was a fat fuck. Yeah.

I'll say it. He was obese. Yeah. But that's the thing. It's like in our society, nobody wants to have an open and honest conversation about the real risk. So then we all have to pretend. And there's this fucking logical gaps. Huge.

And you're being told that if you are publicly talking about comorbidity factors, that you are either denying that this is dangerous or that you're shaming those people. Yeah. Okay. Neither one of those things are true. if you feel ashamed for having one of those factors that is preventable, and I'm talking about things like obesity, not some other comorbidity that is genetic,

that's your fault. So if you feel ashamed, I'm not trying to make you feel ashamed. I don't want somebody to feel bad about themselves. I want them to fix themselves. But we need to be talking about factors that are actually affecting people. Well, and I don't walk around looking for reasons

to insult people, but if somebody gets... That's not true. I don't often walk around looking for reasons to insult people. people but the thing is to go to your point like if if you're if you feel insulted by if yeah it's it's like again there's this gap in logic can we just be honest with each other like apparently not you're 70 pounds overweight not because of something that I did am I an asshole if I make a joke about

you yes I certainly am but the issue is also that you could eat your way out of that or through discipline or you know what I mean like it can we just fucking be honest the person who in the grander scheme of things whether it be a long-term burden to the health care system an economic burden to the United States like it's not me making a joke about a guy 70 pounds overweight it's the dude who's 70 pounds overweight and and I can speak but I'm the asshole if I say anything no no how did we get here yeah there are three people that have been that I've been around in the last 10 months that have all lost over 50 pounds because they identified it in the spring and they're like, oh, that seems like that's going to be a problem if I catch this.

And they probably made it their primary focus and shipped away at it. They all feel better. They're eating better. They are healthier and they all lost more than 50 pounds. And they can probably see their dick now. Yep. You're making a gender assumption. Yes.

That's okay. I apologize to any of those three people if they were not. They've worked their fucking asses off. Like, actually. Yeah. But that's what it takes. Yes. But how did it get to the point where the person who says the obvious

in that particular situation is the problem, not the person who eats themselves into that situation. Do you use that as an example? How the fuck did that get flipped on its head? Well, I think there's a certain section of America that believes that any negative speak towards anyone else is you can't do that. That's not permitted, right?

How much positive reinforcement did you get in the Green Bray pipeline? None. A negative. A negative. Trevor, how much positive reinforcement was used in the seal pipe? From you? None. In general. But here's the thing.

So here's the thing, though. Do you feel like, and I'm not saying it's not. I did. I was like, hey, good job, dummy. Run that hill again, you know, or something like that. And here's the thing. There's a time and place for that type of pipeline and reinforcement. But don't you guys feel like you're probably a little bit more resilient between the ears

because you learned how to deal with that as opposed to being a bubble walking around in any small pinprick just explodes everything that you are? Yeah, I think this is one of the biggest things that I keep coming back to, especially with my kids. It's like you have to teach them resiliency. And you have to start my daughter, for instance, my wife doesn't necessarily agree with this. But my daughter, when she's six and she starts getting a little bit, like she rolled her eyes at me the other day, that costs her. Waterboarding. No, that costs her some air squats.

Like she's like, I'm just sitting there in the chair going down, up, down, up, down. own up and hey hold your hands out straight and my wife is like oh dude and I'm like no it's it's a squat at the end of the day this isn't going to go on for an hour it's not going to go on for an hour it's 20 air squats I mean it could the only does the little bastard does start with roll your eyes that's going to be that 60 seconds you still daddy's truck we're going to be out here for a little bit but it's teaching resiliency today and it's not an online curriculum as I guess is how I would encapsulate that. No, it's not an online,

it's not an online curriculum. And the other pieces is, when we were growing up, there was that scene, right? Sticks and stones, break your bones, but, you know, name calling.

Words will never hurt you. Words will never hurt you. And I think that's one of the things that is lost today, which is everybody thinks that these words are going to hurt you. And they go into microaggressions and a lot of these other things.

And it's like, dude, I've been called a beta cuck, probably 5,000 times in the last week. Week. You're welcome. Most of those are for me. No problem.

I had to look it up. Andy sub accounts. What does this actually mean? Oh, man. I used cuckold not too long ago on a tactical asshole post, which by the way was taken down by Instagram. Wow. That post was hilarious.

However, I had some people at Instagram who were fans of the page. Internal Review, we're back in business. Well, it's become a joker on the house. It's become a joker on my house. my wife would be like, don't bend the knee to me or whatever, right? She'll come in and it's like, you beta cuck. Yeah. I had to look it up to make sure I was applying it to Stephen Seagall correctly.

I think you probably did. Even Segal and Betagal and Bata Cuck. I think they kind of go hand and glove. I went with cuck holder. Oh, nice. Yeah. That's about right. My wife is like fucking, you know, God bless her.

She's fucking pretty funny. Let's be honest. Anybody who can tolerate either, any of us? Any of us. Like is a fucking walking saint. Yes. Yeah, she's been pretty funny because at the height of whatever it was, she called me a fucking, like, you came in, she's like,

don't bend the knee. I'm not going to bend the knee, and I'm like, okay, yeah. I need five minutes to go look this up. I'll tell you what I will say, to go to your point of the sticks and stones will break my bones, what world will never hurt me. There is, and I see this in my own kids, there's a difference between recognizing that words have real world impact, which they absolutely do, especially on people who I think are in their formative years. My daughter's 12, and she will react appropriately.

So, I mean, there was a stretch where she went through somewhat, I would say, legitimate cyberbullying, people telling her to kill herself online. There's real world impact on that. But there's also levels of interaction online that don't have to be taken with the same level of severity as somebody saying that far end of the spectrum. And it has to be, well, I mean, again, it goes back to the term, we're not allowed to use, nuance. And understanding that just because, hey, somebody's like,

you're stupid on a post, like, ignore that. You don't have to react to that with the same velocity and volume of somebody saying, hey, you should kill yourself. But people make assumptions that you have to respond to them or you have to give them exactly what they want, right? Like, I had somebody post about Black Rifle on my page.

I deleted the comment and then ceased all commenting on the thread. And then they commented on another post. They're like, why did you delete my comment? I'm like, look, man, this isn't a forum for your fucking opinion. Well, you're also 3x the age of my daughter, right? So you have the ability to do that. Yeah.

But at the same time, I don't want my daughter to think that people don't exist. You know, that nobody exists. It's going to talk to her in that way. There's a balance that you have to find. And it, I don't know how it's, I mean. I'm trying really hard to, and we don't really, we limit electronic devices, like really early, you know, they can only watch so many hours of TV, which sounds like we're, you know, limiting this.

but, you know, we are because we're, we want the kids to engage with each other, right? They're three and six. It will be tougher for you as they get older. Level up. And here's what I think, it got a little bit out of hand with my kids early on. Right. Which, for anybody listening, once that horses out of the barn, good luck putting it back. Yeah.

And I think what I allowed to change my opinion was kind of the constant narrative of, Well, all of my friends. You know, all of my friends. And it's like, well, if I don't, if I can't communicate with them, you're restricting me from my social circle. You know, that's not the exact words they use, but that was the sentiment. It's like, okay, fuck, I don't want to do that.

But then the next thing you know, the entire, their entire world is just right there. A four inch by two inch screen. And I think, I think that this is so, it's so good in so many different ways, right? It allows me to send you inappropriate pictures at any time I want. Which I really enjoy. The post I sent you the other day. It was spectacular. It was amazing.

But what I'm trying to do, I think, kind of my whole angle on this is I need to teach the kids as they grow up that this isn't real. This isn't real human connection. This isn't real. This is an electronic device that ultimately allows you to communicate, but what's happening inside of social media is not necessarily real. I don't know how that's going to play out because I've got a few more years

before I really have to try to unpack that and organize it and try to articulate it. Elon's going to have the chips ready for your head before you get to that point. Which, you know, can't wait for that. You know, just fucking fast forward to this Orwellian nightmare right now. That's what you need.

A phone that you can never turn off in your fucking head. That's what we all need. Well, I mean, looking back in the time machine, how do you think it would have been for you, growing up if we had these fucking devices. I would have been on pornography 24 hours ago. It would have been a shit shot.

I would have literally, like, there's no doubt of my mind. You had really bad tendinitis. The first time. And typing shit in there that you didn't really mean because, like, oh, it's just a digital, it doesn't mean anything. It doesn't mean anything. Yeah, I look back. Do you know how lucky I am?

Let's just talk about me for a second. You guys know me pretty well. Do you have any idea how fucking lucky I am? There's not a written record of the things that I thought at that age? Oh, God. We all are. We would not be sitting at this table. I can tell you that much.

No. No, I don't think any of us would be here. We are so fortunate. My first cell phone was 1996. That was when I first got my, 1996, 1997 maybe. Probably was like 50 bucks a month for 30 minutes. Something like that, but it was all, you know, it's a flip phone, like a sprint flip phone. With a pull out antenna?

I still have it. And I'll, so I'll take it out every now and again. The battery lasted a week. I'll take it out every now and again. and my wife's like, what are you doing with that? I'm like, I'm just going to make some posts with this thing, you know? Take some snaps, make some posts, whatever. With your half megapixel camera.

Yeah, exactly. It's got an antenna that you pull out. That's what I used to remember. I should pull it with my teeth. Yeah, exactly. Like, I'm going to business now. You know what I mean? Hey, I need you to buy.

It had one app, Snake. Yeah. I mean, fuck. Do you guys remember monitoring how many minutes were left on your plan per month? Yeah. I remember talking my mom. Like, mom, I've got to go. I've got to go.

I've got seven. fucking minutes left. Call me back in 10 minutes. It's after seven. I got unlimited after that. That's right. There was. I remember this when texting first came out.

Yeah, and you had to push the key. Yeah, you had to push the key. I was like, this is the dumbest shit. Why wouldn't I just call somebody? This is so dumb.

Yeah, this, exactly. But people had not been texting enough, so we were still doing full words, full sentences the entire time. There was no like, yeah, you, like none of the shit that's going on now.

and you have a full keyboard sitting right in front of you. I have to, at least once a week, I'll text my daughter. I'm like, what did you just say? It's like, T-T-D-L-R-O-L-O-L. I'm just like, what? Then a string of emojis. She's like, Dad, I'm like, I don't know this shit. And actually, because I'm embarrassed to ask her half the time, I'll just throw it into Google.

And it comes up, I'm like, oh, okay, okay. Got it. Talk to you later, Dad, have a good night. I'm like, holy shit. trying to figure out what people are saying. I think that's the other thing is like throwing somebody, not as if like I'm ancient, but it's like throwing myself into the electronic world

and trying to figure out things that are happening and what people are talking about. It's like there's so much shit to keep up with. Most of the time, all I'm doing is I'm just like either talking to people in the phone or I'm texting them. about work. Like 99% of my communications all about work.

So, and everybody at work for the most part is still like, we're full sentence guys, right? We're like full sentence because there's a lot of things that can be. Misconstrued. Yes.

Yeah, yeah. Or, and if it can be, you have to pick up the phone and call somebody and go, hey, dude, I texted this out and it sounded really fucked up. No implied tasks, right?

There's no implied. Like, don't imply anything. There's no tonality to this. That's a tough one to not apply tone to a text. Well, and I'm glad that you've said it at the office to more people than I can count. Like there are no implied tasks. If I tell you something, just do the thing. Yeah.

Not expecting more. Don't read anything in time. Jesus Christ. Like the implied task thing is one of the things that we fight all the time. And I'm like, you can't leave one step out. So over the past five years, it's like these are the steps you need to. to accomplish this task. Don't leave any step out.

Don't do anything outside of that. I don't need you to color outside of the lines on this one. Just fucking do it. Like, oh, okay. Why are you so anal about this? I'm like, because I've learned that if I give you- If you've seen one dumpster on fire, you've seen them all.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So who would have thought, who would have thought the military would have taught me a few things where it's like, and I remember this so well, like, you know, dummy courting everything down. There's no implied task.

don't run outside of your script, do exactly what I say. Well, think about the mission planning process. All your shit's labeled. Specified, implied tasks. It's like, fuck. Yeah. Listing everything out in crystal clear detail. So a fuckwit, who's 18, with a rifle.

Oh, under leadership and supervision, by the way, which is another off ramp of a current situation that are not even remotely connected, trained, equipped, under supervision and leadership at all times. Yeah. So those people know what the fuck they're doing. Yeah. So they don't fucking shoot their buddies in the back of their head. Like that's the way it works.

Or take a nap. Yeah, or take a nap. Or forget a belt-fed weapon system and a patrol base as you move out or whatever it is. Was that supposed to bring that back? Oh, shit, I didn't realize that. Oh, you mean I couldn't take all the rounds out of my rug to make it lighter? Oh, dang, dude. I didn't realize that.

I needed water on this one? Yeah. I don't know how many patrols I've been on in the desert in a training environment where I just threw ammunition to the nearest crevice that I could. find. God, I remember, like, just kind of like, because you'd go through, you know, your training iterations, you'd go through like an ambush or React, contact, whatever it might be. And you'd see everybody around you when the fucking, when the instructor had like walked away, everybody's like digging a hole and throwing stuff in there. Like, oh man, we got a lighten my rock by about three pounds on this one. Or as soon as the 60 gunner in the early days or the 240 kicks off, people

are just running by throwing ammo at them absent being asked for the dude still got a full load out and like fucking four boxes around him. It's like, the guy has a 60 gunner. And the guy has, 800 rounds on him and you gave him 800 rounds. My theory is as soon as you hear that first burst, just throw your box. I remember having those conversations too. I remember having those conversations where you're on the 60 and it's like, do not call shift fire until I get through this entire belt. Don't fucking say it, man.

Like I got to dump these rounds. I'm not going to change to another 100 round belt before we have to fucking move. That was the standard. was a box per guy minimum. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I think the 60 gunners probably had probably 100 in the gun

and 4, 500 on them. Yeah, I think it's like 1 plus 4. And for people listening, sorry, you don't carry it like John Rambo. No, you sure don't. No. And that shit is heavy. Like, my buddy and I,

we were talking about this a couple months ago because we went through, which was phase one back in the day, which is all patrolling. And we were talking about just like, I had heard, hurt my shoulder so I couldn't put my hand above my head and it was like it was it was an inconvenience you know it was a minor minor but that strap that fucking strap from the 60

you mean the one inch webbing the one it was just it was a torture device it was a garot wire it was so fucked up and your neck was rubbed completely raw you're in so much fucking pain with every step you're taking through the woods as you're going up and in and out of draws and everything you're like, please God, just let me get to the release point. Please, God. I feel like there's two things like that. It's that and a drager. God, a drager is a different type of suck.

Why? It just, like, it drags on your neck forward. It doesn't chafe you as much, but it just holds your. It has four attachment points. But one is just a half inch piece of, one inch piece of webbing that goes around your neck. So explain to everybody what the dragger is. Because the larf, well, you're the goddamn many, submarine fucking expert.

I avoid the water at all costs. It's a pure O2 closed circuit breathing apparatus. It weighs too much and it hangs around your neck. Correct. So no, close circuit means no bubbles. It means you could be sneaky if you wanted to. So no bubbles.

Literally zero. There was a number of occasions. Because you're trying to breathe down your O2 cylinder. Got it. Because they have you on an exhaustion dive, meaning you can't come up until you're empty and you're empty and you're just sitting there just like, just blowing it out.

In out, in out. Oh, yeah, I've seen this. Breathe the cylinder down. You're like, really, I can't come up until my tank's empty? I just lost my tank. But, I mean, there was a number of times, including one where you had us running back to buds with those hangar-in-ne-guards. I made you guys run back to buds? Oh, yeah, we got to run.

God, I got in so much fucking trouble for the things I did the students. Okay, okay. So, you wear this thing around your neck. It weighs, I don't know. Somebody's going to look it up, and I have no clue. It felt like it weighed 45 pounds, but probably weighed closer to. LR-5. 25 or 30.

I'd say yeah, 20 to 25. Anyways. So you have that, your dive weights, your fins, you're wearing a wetsuit. You just finished a couple hour dive. And then the staff are like, you motherfuckers are late. You're running back to base. And it was like two miles or more. You're welcome.

Yeah, and we had all the buoys. And they're like, yeah, you're on a fucking time limit, morons. You have four minutes and 30 seconds to be back to be back to. It was one of those. It's two miles. Yeah, and if you don't put out, we're going to beat you. you along the way. One of my favorite fucking memories was this dude that we had

I wish I could remember his fucking name but I can't but he would always give us these time hacks that were like you have four minutes and 33 seconds and it was always like it was an odd. Of course it was always an odd number of seconds One minute and seven seconds

remaining. Yeah exactly and it was like so fucking funny now that you look back on it and like God this is fucking hilarious and I bet it went something like this Yeah, you have one minute and 17 seconds. Go whenever you want. We're already going.

I was, as a second phase instructor, I forget what the class did to upset me, but it was definitely deserved. Of course. I had them don their twin-80 scuba tanks with weight belt, dive masks, flip her around each hand. We went out to the surf zone, fill up the mask with water, and then we did wind sprints up the burn. Okay, okay, Andy. I remember this because I watched it. So we go back to the second phase grinder, and the OIC's like, hey man, come in my office for a second.

I was like, all right. He's like, hey, did you just completely jock up all the students in their 2080s and have them go do wind sprints directly in front of the view of the CEO's office? His window is like, yeah. He's like, you're in a lot of trouble. You can't do that. I was like, well, nobody told me. Actually, I was like, okay, what time does this CEO usually go home?

Oh, 1,600. All right, we'll be doing these in. 1700. No, I got, I had to sign a counseling shit on that one. That was terrifying to watch because I was in walk week or what we were doing at the end of first phase. Oh, yeah, that's what was loading up for you guys. We were watching you. Do this to the class and we're like, oh my God, we're so fucked.

Dude, wind sprits with twin 80s on a soft sand berm that's at least 30 feet up. That makes me want to throw up right now. Dev mask, dive mask full of seawater. Waring, wearing, UDTs, dive booties, and t-shirts. Oh, fuck. Correct. It's fantastic. It got the point across.

What was the word? Jockup. Yeah, so every time the class messed up in second phase, we had a magnetic cutout that said jacup, and fucking God help you if you spelled the whole thing out, and that's actually what happened with that class. They spelled it. They spelled it. like late for muster jay like you'll get a little bit of remediation at this point but we'll we're gonna save this one up special put a bow on this gift yeah those i remember that class those

fuckers got to jocop and the LSC was like all right they're yours and then i got back and he was just like what the fuck are you doing i like you said i could go out there and remediate well and then they almost did it again yeah there were some classes that were that was a moment where so i had pneumonia and failed an evolution after hell week and i got rolled back that was my class and that was one those moments where I'm like, oh, that's good. It's not me, but I don't want to be there. This is scary. Yeah. They earned it. Well, they, oh yeah, they remember you. I don't know. They remember you. Because you remember those guys. Not for probably anything good. Even though I have had great experiences with people I put through train, they're like, hey, just so you know I hated you for the last

decade, but we're good. Yeah, I ran into a guy in Baghdad in 2005. He was a phase one instructor. I was like, man, I fucking hated you. He's like, oh, yeah, yeah. And the story is awesome because, like, there's part fear and part hate in there. Because we could never wear a rain gear, right? So we're just like doing, which is. But you have to have it on you. Yeah, we have to pack it.

And look, but don't touch. All of our rain gear is in our fucking backpacks, but we can't wear it on patrol. So the rain, it's like rain, sleet, a little bit of snow. And you're just kind of like moving through this evolution. You're just walking and fucking freezing to death, right? Basically at that time. And he's just like walking like nothing's happening. And this dude, he's so stoic.

And he's drenched to the bone and he's not, he's not, oh, fuck yeah. Fuck, yes. Like a three-sided dick broom? Dude. Oh, fuck yeah. And he's just stoic. All of us are jackhammering. Our teeth are chattering so hard as you guys know the feeling that you can't really talk and your, my hands didn't work.

Yeah. So I had to put my hand in like this in the trigger well to do this, pull my finger back and forth because my hands didn't work. And I remember looking this dude. I was like, that is a bad motherfucker, man. And God, I hate this dude. So I talked to him a couple years later, a few years later in Baghdad. I was like, bro, you are a hard motherfucker.

He's like, oh, dude, I had a three-mill wetsuit underneath them. Surprise, motherfucker. I was like, tricks of the trade. Oh, man, what a relief because I was like, how did you do it? Yeah, this dude is so hard. He's like, oh, I remember that. That was brutal for you guys. I was like, oh, man, I'm going to have to call in the ambulance for some of you guys.

So you learned resilience. Yeah, exactly. But you got to fucking move through. I mean, we dropped. I don't know how many dudes that first night. I don't know. They were just like, ah, I'm all good. I'm good.

I'm going to go, you know, because he started a fire just off away from everybody. Just close to a scene. Hey, man. If you want to quit, this fire is nice and warm and toasty. As he's standing next to it, steam is just rolling off his shoulders. That's a classic how we can eat. Those are the things I remember about that whole process, the first like month and a half the most, is the staff standing there with a cup of coffee that you can see steam coming out.

And you're in the surf zone or doing bear crawls with your face in the sand. Somebody quits and they're like, oh, here's a cup of coffee. As you're standing next to this person who just quit and you're going, oh, fuck. This is really happening? In my class, we lost, I'd say 30 people within the first few hours of Hell Week. It was fucking crazy. But classic mind fuck games like that too.

So the fire, I think, is like Wednesday night of Hell Week. And everybody comes up and they have to tell a story. But it's like, it's a goddamn bonfire. And these, you watch these. You dig trenches. Yeah, you dig trenches, of course, because you have to secure the bonfire with paddles because that's an optimal trenching tool. And each student comes up and they tell a story.

and if the instructors laugh, you can go stand near the fire. And if not, you go hit the surf and stand away from the fire in the shadows. That's solid. But you watch these kids who've been awake for like 72 hours and their skin is basically blistering because they're like, fire. Just like inching close. Like, get away from the fire. No sense of, you know, security for themselves.

Like, just complete disregard for their own safety. But those are the, the classic ones. Like, here's your choice. You can go laying in the surf for an hour. You can come stand by. the fire with me. It's a hell of a motivator. It is.

Well, it's pretty disheartening when you don't get a laugh. Right. Okay, go hit the surf zone. Oh, crap. Or another good one was, we're going to be out here all night until somebody quits. Yeah. Those are the best. Just try to lever just one person out.

And then when one person goes, it's like, you know what? We're going to keep going. One more. That's like a trick you learn early on. You're like, this is never going to be enough. Correct. Somebody will quit. It will not be me, but this isn't going to stop.

Yeah. Yeah, it's never going to stop. I remember so acutely those times where you're like, man, I just, I got one more in me. I got one more step. I got one more thing. And it's like just one more, one more, one more. And I think when you look back on that and you have that experience in your life, I think that's one of the many things I've pulled away from experience.

especially going through like, you know, selection or any of those courses. When you have that, when they've, somebody has pushed you so fucking far that your mind is just literally looking for one more step psychologically or one more thing. And people need to understand when you say that, that's actually what you mean. That's not a metaphorical, hey, hey, let's just focus. It's like literally in your head, I think I can actually only do one more step. One more. And then one more.

playing that game with yourself as well, you just continue to put one more, one more on the fucking table. And then you're like, oh, I feel a little bit better. You know, somebody will do something like, I've talked about this a lot. I think you and I talked about it. The vampire effect, when somebody quits, it's like, I'll take your energy now. That's my energy. The podcast I recorded earlier today, Steve was asking questions about buds and I was talking about the bell and how when people would ring it, a small portion of their soul becomes yours. And he was just like, well, that's a dark way of thinking about it. Yeah, but it's especially when it's people that were like star athletes in the class.

So that's what he and I talked about too. You're a star performer and bye-bye. Yeah. I mean, the first dude who quit in my bud's class was in the best swimmer bailed on a run. Shocker because he was fucking collegiate-level swimmer. Right. Not a lot of time running. So therefore not a lot of struggling on things other than a liquid environment.

best runner guess where he went swim swim uh they'll of course he's like who really gives a shit but they'd watch guys like d1 d2 athletes ejecting all the time left and right like they're studs but not between the years i think that happened quite a bit when we like i when i first arrived and i remember watching guys and they were like doing a thousand push-ups and they're like fucking jacked and you're like oh man that guy he's he's gonna he's gonna make it and it's like 15 minutes into the iteration. It's like, I'm out. Where'd pushup guy go?

Yeah, where'd pushup guy go? Oh, he's going somewhere else. He's going to the line. That's where he's going. And you never see here that person again. No, and I think that there's something to be said about never being good at anything. So you're like, oh, fuck it. I can endure.

I'm kind of a... Well, if you're never good at anything, what does that mean? That means you're struggling at everything. And through that struggle, you're probably growing and developing some resilience. And if I quit, then it means that I'm not good at anything. Like, that's like literally you're hanging on your going. If I quit, like for me, it was always, quitting was never really an option. It's interesting because people have asked me that and they're like, well, you know,

it's a common one for bugs too. It was never an option. It was like my body had to physically quit. It couldn't, if I couldn't take another step or I couldn't do something, physically couldn't do something that was the only way that it wasn't going to. to happen. Or a, you know, a nutrition through an instructor saying, hey, you failed this iteration, you're gone, right? So if I eliminate that option to quit, then it's just, you just have to do it and finish it. That's it. It's just a game. It makes it easier psychologically for, for yourself. But if you

take that off the table, people like, well, how do you take that off the table? I'm like, I don't know. You just take it off the table. You don't quit. That's a little. Totally understand what you're saying, and I don't know necessarily how to teach people that other than like incremental exposure over time. But then the question is, how did, like, I mean, I was 18 when I went through butts. Right. I don't know where I got that incremental exposure. I think people are probably different out of the box. Yeah.

Well, your dad was in the Navy, wasn't he? He was. And, I mean, I worked for him as a masonry hod carrier for shit, everything ever since I was very, very young. Not the easiest job in the world. and I actually look back. I remember, you know, one of the biggest things I tell people is if you can keep your world small, it's amazing what you can accomplish by the one step at a time. And I remember being early and I might not even have been a teenager,

but I basically moved bricks in concrete for my dad forever. Yeah. Well, I worked for him because I wasn't a bricklayer at all. I was at best a hod carry and probably an unlicensed one at that. But the pallets of bricks would show up. And they're fucking 500 bricks per pallet. Right. I remember cutting off the, you know, getting the tin snips and cutting off the,

the metal that held it and then the tongs that you could carry were six at a time. And when I first started working with him, it was two hands on one six tong thing of bricks. And then eventually became, you know, 12 at a time. And that mental game you play with yourself when you wake, you know,

you wake up in the morning, go to the job site and there's like six pallet of bricks. Right. And his whole thing is like, yeah, get those on the roof. I'm like, fuck. Six or 12 at a time. You know? And it's like, you can, you have two ways to look at that. I have now six on the roof and 494 more. to go or I'm just going to do this trip and then the next one and then the next one and the next one

and completely fucking ignore how many I have left because the next thing you know, sometime you'll come back and like, oh, that palettes done and then on to the next. So I learned that lesson, but it was not structured. Like my dad did not tell me that. Right. But it helped for sure. Because any selection program, like you said, if you take quitting off the table for yourself, everybody needs to remember this.

Every selection program at some, it has a stopwatch of some. Kind, usually in the term of months. So if you're going to play a game with the time limit and you don't quit, guess what happens? You win. You get to the end of it. You win. I learned that too. So, you know, my dad was a logger.

He worked in the woods most his life. So did my grandfather and everybody before him. So we spent a lot of time throughout the year gathering, in the summer, specifically, getting firewood. So I remember that exact experience with cords of wood. Just carrying. Oh, God. That's another perfect one.

carrying wood from the time that I could put wood in my hands. It was like my job to go to the shop and bring wood in for the fire, for the, for the fireplace. It was my job to move the wood from, you know, this side to this side. unpack it like this. This is my job, right? So, and it's cords and cords of wood over multiple days and iterations throughout the summer where it's just like from the time that I could fucking carry wood. And then it was like, oh, you're going to split wood now. And then you're going to do this. And, and looking back on it, the, the funny thing is I now have a really fond memory of those things,

whereas I fucking hated it when I was a kid. But dude, if you were like, hey, let's go get some wood this summer. I'm like, fuck yeah, man, let's go. It's going to be like a hobby. Like, get chainsaws out, get the splitting malls. Let's fucking do this. This is going to be super fun. I ordered a couple cords of wood last summer or two summers ago and had it dropped off

at the office just so I could split wood in the back. people were like what the fuck are you doing? I'm like, it's a good workout and, uh, you know,

my grandfather and my dad's kind of fun. There's a little bit of violence involved. Yeah. And it's, it's a good workout. You get fucking incredible. Like if you're really working that thing,

especially with a good splitting mall, dude, you're gonna, you are going to sweat your fucking ass off. Yeah, you pop the shirt off, light coat of olive oil on there. My grandfather died.

Mured aviators. My grandfather died splitting wood. He did? Yeah. He had a heart attack at a, had a heart attack and died literally splitting wood. That's how he died. So it's like kind of a connection, I think too.

Like my family worked in the woods. So it's always kind of a, this like connection to my family and where I came from, I guess. But that was a very similar experience because I remember so well like the, the slivers that I would get my forearms from the fucking wood from packing it, you know, in my arms. and just like picking the red pieces of wood, you know, out of your fucking forearms. You're like moving wood back and forth. Like, my life is the worst. You know, it was, uh, it was fun now I look back on it. But half the shit you do that's like super hard that you fucking hate when you're doing it.

Yeah. Give it some time. Fondest memories I have. Yeah. Or almost all involved pain of some kind. Yeah. They're like, oh shit, I did that. That's fucking brutal.

I lived in a fucking snow cave on Rainier one year with a group of guys, which as guys we were going to try to go summit. We skied up this fucking mountain and then we just got snowed in. We're just like sitting in this fucking snow cave for like three or four days. You know, melting snow, cooking, waiting for a window to go up.

And that was, that's what we did. And I was like, it sucked. You were cold, wet, miserable the entire time. But I looked back on, I was like, oh man, those guys were super fun. It was like really funny. And it sucked. But it was fun.

And even now when somebody calls me from, you know, that time from, And they're like, hey, dude, do you remember the time we, like, sat in that snow cave for, like, three days? Yeah, yeah. You remember how shitty that was? Yeah, it's like, hey, we should go back to Rainier one of these days. Yeah, you ever thought about going again? Okay.

Yeah, that sounds fucking awesome, man. I wonder what those, if you could force everybody to go through a pipeline like that. I think it would drastically change the woke culture. Now there's too many of us. Well, I've thought a lot about that because, Tim, um, Tim Kennedy was talking, he was going to, he's starting a school for, for kids. And I was like, oh, God, what does that look like? You know, I mean, Tim's a really talented dude and intense guy.

But can you imagine? With a hint of insanity. Yeah. Can you imagine, like, going through Tim Kennedy's, like, school at, I just imagining, like, kindergarten. Last time I was in Texas, I was at his house and he was talking about this. It was, uh, right before we went over to his house, we went and did a little bit of Jiu-Jitsu and by that.

I mean, he fucking smashed me like. a thousand pound bag of sharp-edged boulders. Oh my God, dude. It's actually hard to describe. And he wasn't, he's just such a high-level practitioner. People would be like, oh, you know, is Tim Kennedy any good? I'm like, yeah, motherfucker. Yeah.

But he was talking about that school. And then my head, I was like, is there, you guys don't have many like whips, do you? Or like a yoke. You guys don't have that thing where you put your hands in there in the head. From Conan? Yeah, so what's the, do you, did you unpack it with him? Were you like talking in depth? I did not.

They were doing a high-level business meeting, so I was actually doing my best to stay out of it. But I just remember the topic of the school coming up. It'll be interesting for sure. It may be a non-traditional scholastic approach. I would imagine. I would love to see that happen with a bunch of former, you know, mill guys or whatever it is that are kind of...

I could see it ending up a lot like the Hunger Games, though. Yeah, I know. I think that's a double-edged sword. You'd have a position where you're like, okay, our kids are going to be really fucking hard and very talented. They're going to be, like, you know, Brazilian jiu jizu practitioners. And they're going to be really fucking smart and ultra violent capable people. Or it might just really fuck them up. I don't know.

But I think that I'd probably move to the latter, or not the latter, but the pre and say, hey. As long as you control it because they are so young. Yeah. You know, you'd look at this stuff. What we're talking about are, like our fondest memories. We're into it. late late teens yeah early 20s right i think you uh yeah you know maybe conan the boberian wait until you're later teens for that that guy but that guy is so

he has so much fucking energy i love to dude he is so much fun that guy he if he comes down to does a podcast or anything you know he'll call randomly hey man what's going on what do you think we do something let me check my calendar okay i've got a nearest opening is six months from now. I have got you on the book for January 2037. Three to five. You good with that? Yeah.

Oh, by the way, AM. Yeah, A.m. You good with that? Okay. Okay. Now, he's awesome, man. It's, uh, yeah. He took the time, like, went, flew in there, took the time, met me at the private, uh, the gym.

God damn it. What's the name of the brand? It's a sunglass brand. And amazing facility. Smash a living fuck out of me and then came and shot the next. day, but he's the best. And I referenced the podcast when he was on with Joe the last time. Yeah. People will look at him like, oh, he's just a knuckle dragging savage. And there's an essence of that, but he's also so incredibly articulate and talking about national strategy,

the Green Beret strategy, counterinsurgency, the layers of warfare. It's like, don't, you're doing yourself a disservice if you sell that motherfucker short. Well, I think that's one thing that a lot of guys, you know, they default to that because they say, well, we're just, you know, knuckle-draggers. I think, you know, a guy like Tim, he's incredibly talented and across the board, a wide variety of things. And I think that actually puts people at ease when he says something like that. Because if he didn't, I think people would have a really fucking hard time engaging with him because they would be so intimidated from all life's accomplishments. Yeah.

They would be like, that guy's inapproachable. He's not. He's fucking, he's a really, He's the opposite of that. He's a very fucking approachable person. You know, one of my favorite scenes is psychology is more contagious than the flu. So with a guy like him, he's always like, fuck yeah, let's go. Let's do this. Let's do that. That guy is such a necessity to, I think, a collective psychology and improving just positivity.

We need more people actually like him in the community just going, fuck it, man. You do you. Let's roll. Let's have fun. Yeah. Be each other. up let's go to the range let's have fun unless people that are like you're not in my lane of traffic so you're wrong yeah i actually think developing or training as hard as he has i think it makes him

or people in general more open to other people's ideas because you're more secure in yourself yeah yeah you know like i can imagine or i can only imagine having somebody who was never untested in any physical arena or maybe they even grew up in an environment or they're not even tested mentally you know or emotionally how confident are you going to be absent ever being tested was opposed to a guy like that who's gone up against the best in the world like what does he fucking care he doesn't care agree or disagree he's like i know who i am like you know what i mean like there's no there's no longer any point to try to prove and there's a lot of people that unfortunately have had every idea and every issue somebody is going to just placate to what they're saying right

or give them a gold star for coming up with it whether it's right wrong or they're indifferent to it and that's that's not giving you any challenge and when you're not challenged with some sort of percussion on the back end, right? You know, failure or winning, if you want to say winning, or a degree or whatever the case may be, then you're legitimately unsure or you're going to be intensely arrogant about everything you have to say and everybody needs to listen to everything you have to say because it is correct because it's coming out of your mouth. I think that's ego and compensation. Yeah. So it's a default position for people, I think, to be be, you know, louder if they're compensating for some type of issue.

Insecurity. Insecurity, yeah. And I think. Small pennies. Well, a lot of us, I think that's the freedom that a lot of us have because, you know, I was telling somebody this a while ago where it's like, man, I really don't have anything to prove to anyone in my life. I mean, I have to be a good father.

Nor the desire to prove anything to anybody anymore. Okay. I know, you know, I know who I am. I'm pretty confident. and who I am at the end of the day, I think, and I've heard this from a lot of my friends. They were like,

oh, you know, what was combat like? I wish I would have, you know, joined and have that experience. I'm like, no,

you don't, dude. You don't fucking, like, why? How many of my friends have, have fucking dove into a bottle because they can't drink away

their demons, you know, how many of my friends are missing fucking, you know, their legs or their limbs or, or just missing in general? Or they're just missing in general. I'm like,

you don't. fucking need that experience. Like you don't need it. Broken families. Yeah, broken families. Like there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a, there's a whole I think in some men or women, but generally the conversations I have is with men, they're like, well, they feel inadequate because they haven't had that experience and I continue to talk to them.

And like, dude, you, you do you, man. That's, that's the great thing about this country is you get to be whoever the fuck you you want to be, but don't think about what you could or should have done. That's, that's just fucking loss. effort and energy. It's not the way to get through life. No, but it has at least given me a level of security and freedom and knowing like, hey, I know who I am in a gunfight.

Like, I know that person. I know who I am if people are shooting at me. I know who I am. People are if I'm shooting at people. Like, I know that. I know what kind of a team member I am. I don't really have to question that because I know who that person is, which allows me, I think, a certain freedom to just kind of fucking send it.

And then if people don't like it, they obviously are just, oh, well, okay, that's cool. I mean, I'm not going to leave it. I'm not going to leave anything on the table in this life. I'm not going to be like, oh, man, I should have done that. It's like, no, if I want to do it, I'm going to go fucking do it. I'm not going to leave. That's my fear, I think, in a lot of these, just life in general, if I have any fears, is like, is leaving something undone.

Like, what do I want to do? What do I want to do? What type of man do I want to be? what type of person do I want to be to my family? I think that's my driving force 90% of the time. What kind of a man do I want to be? What are my children going to look to me and then discover, learn, and then think about when I'm fucking long dead and gone?

Are they going to think of me as a good man? Are they going to think of me as a good father? That's kind of my driving force, whereas before this, you know, it was what kind of a team, what kind of a team member am I? Like, what kind of an individual or team member am I? And I think it kind of goes back and forth. Yeah.

But it's interesting how priorities change. I think definitely once I had kids, those things really change. I think just having that freedom of knowing, I'm good, I'm good with myself. A lot of guys don't have that. They kind of live in a life of questioning themselves and some to some degree,

which I think is truly unfortunate because I talk to a ton of guys, I'm like, dude, what the fuck? You don't need that experience. Like, you're a great guy. Well, and you can find the test elsewhere outside of a combat environment. You can, you know what I mean?

It's a solvable problem for people. You don't have to wonder whether or not you're good enough to do fill in the blank. Go find a test that replicates, you know, for some people, hey, go run a marathon. Maybe that's your test.

Yeah. Or Iron Man or the, whatever the one is where you're, yeah, the one you jump in the mud. Yeah. Yeah. Avoiding discomfort is not the way to answer that question. Oh, God, no. No, you have to be so fucking uncomfortable and ready to quit.

You're, you, I think, physically and mentally, you have to be prepared to put yourself into a position where you think everything is going to collapse like a fucking dying star. When you feel that energy and you're pushed back against it, that's, I think, when you really start to feel, oh, okay, this is who I am. If you don't ever get to that position, you'll never. never really know, and then you'll always question who that person is. Well, and it makes sense when you look at what we are, right?

You know, we're, a machine that was designed millions and millions of years ago, you know, through evolution, right? So we're this hardware that's millions of years old with software from yesterday. So your hardware wants to be stressed. Your hardware wants those stressors. It wants that kind of feeling, and it needs that sort of affirmation. of success, whether that's, I plan to call it a hunt and then I'm successful, right?

That doesn't have to be physically incredibly difficult. Right. But the world has to have the repercussion of the star is going to fall apart. You know, like that, yeah, that's going to happen, or I'm going to starve. That's what our bodies want. That's what we genetically need. And I think there's a lot of people that are constantly have their entire life just

softly given the ability to take an exit here and crossover and I'm sort of going to get to the end state in the easiest way possible. And now you're an adult, and the only way to get a stress out of life is by lashing out and being enraged at, name the thing. It's everything from using the word nuance. I didn't know that was a forbidding.

noise that you can make with your mouth. Yeah, I didn't either. To, I don't know, donating to an ecologic group. Like, you know, I donate to Ocean Conservancy. Like, are people going to think I'm a crazy eco warrior? Yeah, I mean, what the shit? Maybe you are. You know, yeah, I like the earth.

We got the one. It's pretty rad. It's pretty cool. Well, I think that lumping people into predesigated definitions. I think, one, that's a simple way for people to just kind of live life and say, this is who I am. This is, you know, I'm just going to fit this box. You and I've talked about that for a long time. It's like, there's nothing wrong with thinking like, hey, you know, clean air is pretty cool.

I like to breathe it. You know, maybe we should think about how what we do affects those people around us. So, you know, one of the conversations I was having was putting an afterburner on our roasters. I was like, no, we need to put afterburners on them. We want to burn off all the excess fucking smoke because we don't need to contribute to it. So what? Does that just reburn the residual?

Yeah, it just burns it. Yeah, it just burns off the excess smoke. So literally you're just, you're burning the smoke. And so all of that essentially excess carbon that's released into the air, you're burning it again. And there's no reason to add to the trash in the air, especially in Salt Lake, because we deal with inversion all the fucking time. The air is horrible in Salt Lake.

half the time we have to have air filters in every one of our rooms and our offices in the wintertime it gets really fucking bad I'm like I'm not going to contribute to that I'm all good like we're going to burn off the excess smoke that's what we're going to do oh okay yeah you crazy hippie

yeah you crazy hippie he's like ah not really like you can't do that and care about guns you can't I guess I guess you know pick one Evan you're gonna you're gonna drift across the lines you're gonna be like oh my gosh what are you doing they are going to brainwash you if you start believing those hippie thoughts Yeah

Well speaking about hippie thoughts What the fuck are you doing Hunting with a Bow from 1400's technology How's that gone for you this season? I've drawn back zero times Zero Zero

Zero What's your effective range with that thing? On an elk? Just in general I'm I've been I mean Check the internet's

But I've been routinely consistent At putting a softball size group at 20, like dinner played at 30 is pretty, I'm pretty happy with that, both days, you know, like the Instagram days. But yeah, I'd say most of the time that's about where I'm at. I picked it up purely out of curiosity and then talking to Jeff Shapiro. You were trad curious. I was trad curious.

Right. Yeah. Falconry curious too. I was falconry curious. Thank you, Jeff. First off, everybody should be falconry curious because when I said, sat down with him, I was like, oh my God. You hunt with a flying friend?

That's fucking badass. I mean, I got to watch Cirrus kill a pheasant about a month ago. It's fucking really cool. But he asked, he's like, you know, you want to come up and hunt? Cool. You know, if you want to hunt with a trad bow, that'd be really cool because he hunts with a longbow. And he's hunted with compound rifle. He'll put food in the freezer, period.

What's the difference between a trad bow and a longbow? Well, so trad's more like the macro group. so everything from recurves to pure English long bows or self-bows, like just a stick that is bent. Bent. Yeah. And he's hunted with a long bow for a long time. And so I was like, you know what?

Fuck it. Like, what is the issue with me wanting to learn something that makes it a little more difficult? I have to get closer. I like how you use the word a little. A little bit. Exponentially. What's been kind of cool, though, is it's forced my picture. tactically of the scene to change.

You know, it's only going to improve my ability to hunt with a rifle and a compound. Oh, for sure. Because I'm forcing myself to think of how to get within range and have a shooting lane for a thing that arcs like a rainbow, and I have to be sort of within the 25 or 30 yard range. What kind of penetration would you get with that thing? Fantastic. I mean, I'm shooting like a 650 green setup with a 65-pound bow. What kind of feet per second are you getting?

somewhere just over 200 but I mean it's getting over 60 foot pounds of force when it's hitting a target. It's actually better than I thought it would have been. They're blowing right through elk at that range, you know if it's soft tissue stuff. Right. And I mean, people have been hunting

with those for 100,000 years, right? So obviously they were putting 30 arrows into those things because those were between 20 and 30 pound posts. Right. But it's a phenomenal killing machine. It works fantastic. The proof is out there. I have not shot an animal

with one yet. Yeah. I would like to. Did you fill your Montana tag with anything? Not yet. The shoulder season lives. It's all you've got less. It's all I've got less. I've already... You're saying rifle season ended Sunday. I know. So I'm coming up for shoulder season. What does that mean? What's shoulder season? So they open up

some units... A season on like the shoulder of the... Oh, got it. Yeah. It's on the back end. So it's really just to fill my tag. I think it's cow only. Yeah. Almost everywhere. Yeah. I'm still going up into the Wasatch. looking for elk with the recurve. I'm just dead set on giving it a go.

You know, like what's, I'm in a fortunate position where I can learn that skill and then give it a shot and I still have stuff in the freezer. I still have meat from animals that I've killed. Yeah, you'll have moose meat for the next fucking four decades. Yeah. Which is great, you know, so it leaves me in a spot where I've now found this thing that is very,

it's very cool. It's, it's sharp, pointy still. golf. Like, yeah. It's fucking really cool. There's nothing to it. It's a stick of string and then another stick with a pointy end. And that's how I hunt too, but it's just a suppress 308 on the tripod. That's some sticks. It's just a stick in a projectile. That's all it is. At a baseline level, we're talking about the same thing. Right. Something goes from A to B with some kinetic energies while we're talking about. And I mean, I'm more than happy to shoot something with the rifle. It's just that that recurve has been, it's been a really interesting

learning curve and I like how difficult it is. I'm still shooting the compound all the time because there's going to be hunts where the recurve might not be appropriate. Right. Not in the next five or ten years. Not in the amount of time that I've practiced this thing. I kind of got forced into rifle season or rifle hunting this year because I jacked up my elbow.

And I was sitting there like, God, do I really want to do this? Is this fair? Right. Is this fair for the animal? Yeah. Which is why, and we talked about this when you asked me if I wanted to go on that first hunt. You know, years ago, it's like, yeah, I was never really interested in hunting because my family didn't, I didn't grow up with that on the radar. Yeah.

And then I didn't even. After I spent time in military, I'm like, well, that doesn't seem very fun or challenging. Why would I shoot something? Like, it's 400 yards. They make us shoot a target with iron sights that far. Like, what the fuck are you talking about? Like, why would I do that? I actually really enjoyed it because I got to expose two people to Leah got her first deer with the rifle.

That's awesome. And here's the thing, too. I have a suppressor on the 308 that I use. And people are like, why did you do that? I'm like, first off, it makes weapons more accessible to people. Yeah. Yeah. It reduces anticipation because when you're not expecting a fucking cannon to go off in your hands,

you can sit there and actually have excellent trigger control because you're not closing your eyes. Like, hell God, it's going to go off. Yeah. And also, if you miss, which guess what, people, happens to everybody, most of the time, the animals will still stand there. Right. Yep. So it made it super accessible. The guy who makes the podcast T-shirts, he's got a he,

got a dough at his house and then I was actually able to get a buck at his house. We'll leave out the details. It was legal. My feet were on the ground. Right. The feet were on the ground. Feet were on the ground. And at the end of the day, I was like, you know what, this is, it was just more about sharing

the experience. So it actually, I was thinking about him like, okay, bow hunting is awesome for all of us, but really hard to show other people who don't bow hunt. Absolutely. Rifle hunting, still difficult depending on who you are, but so much more accessible to show people. Yeah. I did a rifle hunt with my dad this year.

We both killed Elk up in Utah. And, you know, I was telling you that story where, you know, the first time my dad shot past 100 was with the 6-5. The first time he'd shot even a, you know, box-fed semi-auto fucking rifle was, was then as well. And it was such a different experience for him because we went out and we tried to shoot these 30-odd-6s

that were literally 40 years old. I had one that was my grandfather's, one that was mine. We couldn't get him to group past 100. Imagine that. Weird. So we threw in, you know, modern, seeking six-fives,

and he was shooting out to five, six, seven, eight, within 45 minutes. And then he went out that afternoon after zeroing his rifle and killed an elk in one shot, literally took maybe three steps. Oh, yeah. And he was right above the heart. Like it was no problem whatsoever.

My dad was like... And that was his first elk, right? No, he's killed a lot of elk before. This was his first elk in probably 25, 30 years. And he got the bug again. He got the shooting bug again. He got back into like that head where he's like, oh shit, I can shoot out to distance.

I don't need to, you know, get my glasses and get everything ready. Like, he's like, oh, take my hearing aids out. I'm already dead. I'm already deaf either way. Not advisable people. Right. But it's the same thing, right?

Bolt on a can, screw on a can. The can, people don't understand how much it changes the experience for people. But remember, Evan. But also, for people looks like an AR, and with a suppressor, you're evil. But also, well, two things on that. One, for people listening this, don't just throw a can on your gun, research your local regulations. Like in Montana, it was illegal for a long.

time. It is now legal. Don't go hunting with the suppressor on your gun unless you check to make sure. And two, yeah, the assault rifle one is I get lost on that. I don't know what makes a rifle an assault rifle. I mean, yeah, I don't. I don't either. Like I don't know what's classifying what particularly being flippant because it's ridiculous. What's a semi-auto box bed fucking that's what classifies it. A collapsible buttstock. Yeah. Shit like that. Yeah. I I mean, we'd have to read into the regulations to exactly what it fucking looks like. But I think it's literally just the way it looks. I think that's what intimidates people.

You know, whether or not they're classifying every semi-auto. I don't fucking know. I don't even know where you'd start to begin to unpack all that bullshit and why they even want to. I know that that's the majority of what we have in our saves. That's what we have because I'm comfortable with it. Yeah. And they're efficient. They're very efficient, you know.

So for us, you know, Matt and I will go out and shoot like, you know, 300 blackout or, you know, suppress 300 blackout with fucking subs. Sounds like a paintball gun. It's amazing. It's an amazing experience. I bought these air rifles for my kids so they could learn how to shoot because there's, you know, virtually zero recoil. Quiet. Zero noise. My wife is, she's a great pistol shooter. She hasn't shot a lot of rifle.

So for her, it was like really easy entry level. like get in, start shooting, get, you know, used to the rhythm and what's happening with this device, like how to load it, how to shoot it, how to be proficient and safe. So I don't really discriminate against any platform. Like I shoot traditional bow, I shoot my compound bow. Like in any week in the back of our facility in Salt Lake, we've got fucking targets that are, we can shoot out to 100 off the back deck next to the roaster. You will find me breaking arrows with my trad bow.

You'll smash them into the concrete wall. And for me, I've really kind of just classified myself as a projectile enthusiast because I just like to hit targets is what I like to fucking do. Same. And it doesn't really matter. Like I have a muzzle. I've got muzzleloaders. I've got fucking the whole nine.

That's one I haven't gotten into. It's fun. Did you get into that just because it gave you access to a different season? No, I grew up shooting black powder. Did you really? Yeah, I grew up. So we used to go to these black powder rendezvous. Like the full on just,

how I learned how to shoot was with a black powder rifle. That's how I learned how to shoot. My grandfather, my father, my uncle, everybody shot black powder at black powder rendezvous. So we go out. What is a black powder rendezvous? It's a mountain man festival. It's a mountain man festival.

That's all it is. So broke back mountain man festival. Well, I mean, no, not exactly that definition. But like partially. Mostly. Maybe. I'm sure there was some of that going on. I don't know.

But yeah, I grew up. It was a 32 caliber black powder rifle. I had a little fucking powder horn and, you know, loading it up with your ball and your patch and wearing what's called a Capote, which is this old wool fucking robe-looking thing. And sleeping in teepees and shit. You go out into the mountains

and you do these things called trail walks and you'd walk around and you'd compete against other shooters in a trailwalks. You'd have like Tomahawk and knife throwing stations and fucking shooting stations with pistol and rifle. And so kids, as a kid, it was awesome because you'd compete in fire starting competitions, Tomahawk and knife throws, shooting a 32 caliber muzzle at a rifle. This is what I see Tim's school looking like. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, that's kind of the way I see. This is orientation for his school. This is orientation. Orientation week. Knife sharpening, all this kind of weird random shit that we would do. And it was so much fun for a kid because you could just let your imagination run wild when you were six, seven, eight years old, cruising around in the mountains with like moccasins and a fucking wool robe, basically, and a powder horn. You got your own rifle. I feel like I need a powder horn now.

Dude, it's rad. It's so much fun because. Could you fill it with like whiskey? Yeah. You could. You could fill it with anything you want. It's going to leak all over the place and probably make you smell. like booze the entire time.

But nonetheless, it's super fun. Whoever won would go to, they'd spread out these big fucking blankets and then the person that got first, got first pick. So you'd all have to donate. So whoever's in this competition, you have to donate something.

And then the person that's first gets first pick. And then they'd start going down through the list. And it was... To the victor go the spoils. Exactly. That's awesome. So that's how I learned how to fucking shoot a rifle. Have you ever hunted black powder?

No, I mean, pheasant. I've watched the meteor dude. Why can't I think of his name right now? Steve? Steve Ronella, yeah. Yeah, I think he was after it was mule deer or something like that. Right.

It's different. It's a different experience. I think you've got modern muzzleloaders, which are different than kind of the traditional where you have your ramrod and horn and all this other stuff and you got ball. So it's straight up. lead. I remember

my grandfather making lead balls so he had a smelter. Yeah, or smelter. Where he'd be pouring and making his balls and knocking him out and doing his little patriot thing. It was pretty rad, man, because as a kid you had all that crazy mountain man shit going on at the same time like all these dudes were working in the woods.

So I would go out and shoot either my 22 or my 32. Most of the time, like I had free access to the 32 you because there's not much you can fucking mess up with that thing. You've got to put the cap on, back, set the trigger. So you'd have a trigger set. You have two triggers.

So one sets it, one fucking shoots it. It's fucking wild, man. It's a wild experience. No, Indies with that. No. You're not going to get, well, you will. You certainly could, but you have to put some more effort. It's going to be on.

You put a lot effort into it. Yeah, you really do. You've got the jiu-jitsu it yet. I know we were texting about it. Oh, yeah. You haven't done it? He did it for a while. A little, yeah.

Right. He was there when Dudley's neck was broken by Jocko. I have really good pictures of the whole event. Do you really? Oh, yeah. And he no shit broke his neck. Part of it. How did he do that?

I mean, he held him down, and then he just jumped up and down on his throat. Okay. I mean, Jocko doesn't want to tell his story. That's what I remember. No, he was doing a choke that involved your entire fist on the Adams apple. and then applying pressure through your sternum. And Dudley, because he's not a jiu-jitsu practitioner, put his massive fucking man-arms behind his back and pulled Jocco into him,

which increased the amount of pressure until his, I believe it was the hyoid bone, had a little bit of a crack in it. Holy shit. But we were both there. I had only been at it for a few months then, and we were scrapping around and fucking around, and I've been texting him about it ever since. I'm sure there's an awesome jiu-jitsu scene down in Salt Lake.

It's the same time frame that we were teaching to Skadaf. That was the same time period. It was actually the same weekend because we did. And it was the same day we put Jocko and his kids in the tunnel. Yeah. Entertaining. We did because we did that archery event.

That was all that same weekend. Yeah, it was all the same weekend. The archery event, that's where I met you. Yep. Oh, we did the comedy show at Pachanga. Yeah, Joe's comedy show because he came down to the archery thing. To the archery thing. Yep.

Yeah, that was all the same weekend. Oh, my God. That was a fucking whirlwind. It was because we were trying. Actually, you were at the tunnel with Jocko. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That was like, I saw him trying to dominate the air.

That was the whole team. He got dominated by me. Barklow was there. This is how I explained people how Jocko likes to free falls. Like, I'm going to capture all of this air. You will submit. You will submit air. Which was fucking awesome.

That whole weekend was awesome. It was amazing. Yeah, I forgot that that was all. For some reason I had like partitioned. We stayed at Bob's Place. You stayed at the mom's place. Yeah, I stayed at my brother-in-law and sister's house in Oceanside. That was a fun couple days.

Yeah, we need to do more shit like that when the world allows us to do fun shit. Yeah. When we're not on lockdown, when we don't have to stay in home and wear our masks. Or bending knees. Citizens, yeah. What's your over-under for when you think things will be relaxed? Oh, gosh. semi-normal.

You know, dude, your guess is as good as mine. Your next appointment with Tim Kennedy, 237 and 3 a.m. My guess is Q321. Yeah, I think we're going to be, I think this next year is going to be

a fucking shit show. I think it's going to be a shit show. I think you're going to have rolling shutdowns. I think you're going to have mask mandates and travel fucking lockdowns. You're going to have all this

all the kind of shit that we are seeing in the beginning of this. You're going to have it again. Well, and they're looking at, I mean, you just look at the rollout dates for vaccine, right? Like general public isn't until next summer, maybe?

What are your thoughts on taking a brand new vaccine? You know, I've done that one once, right, with the anthrax vaccine. You remember that one before the invasion of Iraq? And with kind of the long-term health effects that that's kind of yielding, I'm a little bit skeptical. Imagine that being a skeptic in today's day and age, just not gulping it down. you know, anything that you kind of rush to market, I think everybody should be a little bit skeptical of. But I think that there's probably a percentage of the population

that, you know, obviously the really at-risk portion of our population, if it helps get small and medium-sized businesses back up and running, fuck, I'm all for it. Like, if that's what it takes, like, let's get fucking small and medium-sized businesses up and running because... This has been devastating. From the doctors and researchers that I personally know, they've all said that from what they've read and seen,

none of the steps have been cut short. What this is going to do is actually help on the back end other vaccines and other research go further faster. Right. Because a lot of the bureaucratic red tape, which is what takes so many of these vaccines so long, they're able to cut through it. They've been chopping it because this is now a worldwide thing

as opposed to that's that country's problem. That's this country's problem. So based on what they're saying, saying, no, I don't want to be first in line because I can be paranoid at times. But you're also at one of the lowest risk categories as well. And I agree with you. Like if you're at a high risk, I'm also very skeptical. I had that same series of vaccinations offered to me.

I squirted them in the garbage can, full disclosure. But yeah, I don't actually want to be first in line. I think people should do their own risk assessment on that one. And for the high risk category, fuck yes. So you should prioritize those people. But if you're at ultra low risk, it might be some benefit to giving a little bit of time in the saddle to see how that thing plays out.

But I don't ascribe to the tinfoil hat. They're putting microchips or this is going to absolutely kill you or turn you into an autistic crazy person like what they needed to do. They changed the batteries out in the seagulls. They're all fucking out now. Look, Andy, that's a secret we were supposed to keep. The birds aren't real. Yeah.

I mean, it takes a while to switch out all the batteries. It does. I mean, there's a lot of birds. They said it was two weeks. They're almost a nine months. I hope they find a medical solution for it. I really do. I mean, we were walking down Main Street CalSpell.

I was pointing out to you that it used to be a fly shop, but now it's this massive, cavernous space, and I can only imagine even here where economically, you know, the price of commercial real estate's got to be lower. But I can only imagine the monthly nut on that place and how much foot traffic you would need. I mean, come on. Well, I think when I really look at it

I look at kind of the consolidation of business between what's happening, right? So when we look at just like we're talking about the logistics of it, just from an econ perspective, limiting how many packages small and medium-sized businesses can ship out over holiday season because of COVID. And in consolidating between basically the two main retailers in the United States, which is Walmart and Amazon, this will be catastrophic for small and medium-sized businesses, a lot of lot of these people, you know, they, if they're a small e-com company, they're going to try to collect 50% of their revenue over holiday season.

So if you can't ship packages, you can't get your packages to people in time. That's going to be a huge impact. And what's their solution? Bend the knees to Amazon and just put your shit on an Amazon marketplace and give them part of your money? No, that's, I mean, for right now, I think that's literally all they can do. That's all they can do. Or go out of business.

Or go out of business. So what we're seeing is the death of small and medium-sized businesses. That's what's happening. And the solidification of massive businesses. Correct. Massive businesses. So when we do the long play on this in a purely kind of pessimistic look, you would see a consolidation of retail into the two main retailers, right?

Two main big box retailers, people moving their professions from what they might do in a mom and pop retail store or local type retail establishment, they would be moving to more of a fulfillment type job. So when we look at this 1984 Orwellian... What's that fucking noise? Did I leave the AC on again? Probably. I don't think it's probably just got started.

Oh, yeah. I was like, hmm. It's the second time I've done that. People actually enjoyed it the first time I did. They're like, yeah, dude, keep leaving the AC breaks in. No idea why. But most of the kids are like, you're a fucking idiot. I'm like, yeah, I know.

You left it on? I don't know. I thought it was off. That's all right. We've been at this for a while, and it didn't come on. A bit. That's okay. I don't know why I had to come on now.

What the fuck is wrong with this thing. But that is what's going on is you're looking at one of the largest transferences of wealth and ability in human history. Yeah. Well, it's getting flipped right over. I mean, multi-digit percentage point growth in, personal capital for people that already have more than $50 billion. That's a good number. That's insane.

And they're getting multiple digit percentage points. And, you know, and I have this debate because of, you know, I'm capitalist. I mean, I believe in the system. I have this debate because there's a, there's, I think, a distinct difference between the free market capitalist and then ultimately that the cards are completely. completely, the deck is completely stacked. So when we look at the deck is completely stacked over on the corporate side, they have billions of dollars to essentially yield the outcome they desire.

And we would be foolish to think that they're not stacking the deck in their favor to take advantage of a scenario like this where they can drive out their competitors on a large-scale level. I think everybody would be a little bit remiss and a little bit foolish to think that that wouldn't be an endgame regardless of what they think. that is an end game. So how do you do it? Do you go into a monopoly busting

or trust busting type scenario where you're breaking these entities up? I don't know. I mean, truly, I don't know what the right answer is in this. I know that we feel it because we talk to a ton of, you know, smaller,

better and own econ businesses. We hear it. We feel it from a large-scale perspective just in our own limitation. of packages. And we can't really compete. We can't compete with, you know, Amazon or Walmart or their type of. Is there anybody that can?

I don't think so. At this point, you know, it's kind of like the algorithm on social media, you know, we're never going to be able to unring that bell. Yeah. I don't know how we're going to pull ourselves out of this. And I don't know how we're going to pull retail back from COVID, put it back into the hands of more localized establishments. Well, the only way is like you just described, which won't happen because.

because K Street is too strong. Right. Antitrust is the only way to make that a thing. And if they don't ring that bell, then too fucking bad for everybody else, apparently. And the worst part, people want to be a victim. They want to say they're, you know, the cards are getting stacked against us.

No, no, no. It's far worse. Right. They're not spending any of their intellectual time thinking about stacking cards against you, and I mean you being any business owner or person. They're thinking only about stacking more cards in their deck. That's it. That's it. It's far worse. They're just stacking more, more, more, more, more, more, more, more. It's not against

you because they couldn't give a shit. You don't matter. That's the problem. People don't see it. You know, they're like, ah, you know, I'm being, I have so much against me. No, no, no, no. They have so much for them. Right. That's the problem. Like, you're in a race riding a bicycle, against an F-1 car. And every time you get somebody to help you with your tire, they get another F-1 car. That's how this is working. Yeah, I don't think I could be,

I could not be convinced to open a brick-and-mortar pure retail store selling just one thing on Main Street Callispell. Yeah. To me, it would seem like the riskiest of gambles. Yeah. With uncertainty. Except masks.

Okay, I haven't really considered that. Showing masks. designer masks. Yeah, maybe. But I mean, who's going to feel comfortable pursuing that path after 18 months of just having it shoved down their throat? And then who's, and then the property holders, the people that actually own the property that are running out the space, you know, the long-term effects of this, you can't print enough money to get yourself out of this hole. You know, when I say that, it's like if people understand how inflation works and devaluing the dollar,

these schemes don't fucking work. You can't print more money to pay for the debt of some dim wit that wants to go get a Venetian black glass blowing degree or PhD that can't get a job for above 1550 an hour. You can't print enough money to recover from that plan. It's not a plan. And what people don't even understand is that it's already controlled by the government. It's consolidated to three different type of financial institutions. institutions that are controlled by the government right now.

So they've consolidated essentially a financial monopoly around the education system. And the government already has done that. So now what the next step is, they're like, well, we just want debt forgiveness for this. It's like, so you're going to make it everybody else's problem that you can't get a job with your degree. Meanwhile, we're going to shut down small and medium-sized businesses. We're going to consolidate people back to their homes. wear a fucking mask you can't go out you can't buy anything other than from an e-com store so it's like the only jobs that you're going to be able to acquire will be from a big box retailer uh and those are

going to be lower paying jobs they're not going to be high-paying jobs so it it really doesn't look and and fucking sunny and people aren't seeing even some of the the second and third order effects Like there's two small businesses in Mill Creek that I've been to. One of them is somebody that sells olive oil and eggs, like farm fresh eggs. Yeah, well, they stop doing it because they can't keep their employees because it's more lucrative for their employees to be on unemployment than it is for them to be getting the pay that they were getting paid. Yeah. I know some people like that as well. That's fucking insane.

It was actually one of the most financially beneficial times for them is when they had stopped working. Yeah. Right. It's dangerous precedence set. Yeah. Yeah. How do you incentivize you? Where do you think that's coming from?

Like, does everybody just believe that that money's just getting printed? Like, it's just magic money? Well, no, what is going to happen? I mean, is... Well, it's not debt forgiveness. It's debt aggregation. Yeah. They're just spreading it out across the larger sample size than one.

Yeah. And so it becomes everybody else's issue. Yeah. It's, and that's where there's a... For me, there's a definitive argument for less government equals more freedom. That's what it is. Less government equals more freedom. freedom, which also means you have to assume more personal responsibility for your actions.

And that's what it's contradictory to human behavior. It's they, there's a huge percentage, I think, of our population where they don't want more freedom. I think they prove that in the, you know, the, the post-9-11, what was the Patriot Act? Yeah, the Patriot Act. They willing, well, I was going to say willingly, but I don't, I don't believe the vast majority of people truly understood the breadth and depth of the reach or what could be more aptly described as overreach by the intelligence apparatus. I don't think a lot of people

really knew. It's complicated and it's really detailed and complicated and it shifts around and ultimately you can't really track even legal liability when it comes to it and who's enforcing what and what's constitutional, what isn't constitutional. That's why it's so fucking dangerous to forfeit liberty to people that don't have your best interest in heart. That is the danger of all of this. When people are just so willingly able to accept a forfeiture of their rights, that's what scares me. Like, that really scares me because people need to be able to push back.

People need to be skeptics as to what the intentions are of the government, especially with so much corporate interest. When you have guys like that that are out there, you know, whether they're, you know, rich financiers, like, Bloomberg or some of these other dudes that are pumping billions of dollars into essentially experiments that people don't even want in order to shift the dialogue, that's fucking dangerous. And for us as a society, especially a free society, that's not the way we should be functioning,

at least from my perspective. Like, who the fuck is Bill Gates? Like, who is he? He built a fucking goddamn computer. Why are we listening to this dude on vaccines? because he funded some vaccine research in Africa. What pedestal do people put these billionaires on and why? What tech oligarch has got your best interest at heart?

And what have they really developed that has really benefited individual freedom? I mean, they're the guys that created this fucking garbage that people are consumed and gaslit on 24 hours a day. And they're self-admitting. You mean the personal tracking device? Yeah. They're self-admitting that it's wrong. It's unethical.

Oh, so we should listen to them more, for sure. We should buy into more of their bullshit because they don't have an objective in all this to make more money. And I think we're all fools if we just blanketly accept whatever a billionaire says because they're a billionaire.

I think you should never blanketly accept what anybody says. Fuck no. A critical eye in, you know, objective, reasoned thought. It's a very powerful tool. It's a very powerful tool. But if we eliminate the ability to even explore through Socratic method or logical debate, that's when it's easier for, I think, society be exploited.

I've talked a lot about this on the military industrial complex and how it financially benefits from war. You can't have an entity that has so much influence in Washington that directly financially benefits from war. more funding think tanks that directly validate. It's a vicious ecosystem. Doing more war. Yeah. And I think when we look at the entire corporate structure as far as the money and influence in politics, we've got to really look and unpack all of that.

The best thing that we can do is be very skeptical and debate it and not just swallow it down like mindless lemmings. And that's what I think I, I think that's what we see is, just this massive ability for people to group think across the board. They want to just go, oh, well, you know, Joe and Kamala, they're good people. We're just going to have to do what they say. It's like, okay, yeah, good idea. Wow.

Like you guys have done really well for yourself on this because you're not willing to push back. You're not willing to push against the establishment. And that happens on both side, whether you're left or right. And it's part of the two-party system as well. groups are saying things like I've heard this statement and maybe you guys have heard it but they say oh no electing a president or you know politics politics is a lot like getting on the bus it might not be going exactly where you want but you still have to get closer to where you're going like no the fuck I don't no you can walk I'm gonna I'm gonna buy a bicycle like there's all

sorts of other ways around this and by saying that you are devaluing a large group of people multiple groups of people and their opinions. You know, the, oh, you vote third party like you're the enemy. You're helping the other person win. Yeah, both parties use the third party as the scapegoat. Well, you're hurting fill in the blank. Yeah, yeah, you are. You know what?

You're taking votes away from that person's ability to maintain their seat in an elected spot and make money off of you. Yeah, that's what you're doing. And you know what? Fuck them. they really, they're a public servant. They're a public servant. Right now they're there.

But are they? No, no, no. Now they're a public leech. I mean, we have senators and congressmen and women that are millionaires. Yeah. Not by their own strength and guile, only because they know people on K Street. I really don't think you should be allowed to be a career politician. Like, I think it's a bad sign if you've been in politics for longer than you've been out of it.

Oh, yeah. It's a very, very bad sign. Yeah. Or, you know, if you're old enough to be a senator and vote on an issue in Vietnam. I just, I, well, for one, I mean, I don't know that many politicians. The only one I actually know directly is Dan. Yeah, yeah. But I'm very wary of anybody who actually wants to go into that path.

Because historically, I'm not impressed with what I see people who make that. I mean, perhaps some of them are not trying to make it an occupation, but I am not impressed with the people that I see who have made it an occupation. Well, I think it de-incentivizes people because they learn. how to work the fucking levers in Washington. They learn the system. And then the system really becomes hard for anybody new to really understand. So when you have 40, 30, whatever, plus years in a profession where ultimately who's holding you accountable, your voters, but you can individually profit.

I mean, for a long time, I'm somewhat aware of this, but there was an insider trading laws, for instance. So you could pass legislation and you could individually profit from the legislation that you were passing, and you wouldn't be fucking rung up on insider trading. Well, how is that possible? Because we force bank executives to go through strict audits for insider trading, but we don't force the people that work for us, writing the fucking laws. Like, when was it? the last time one of them went to jail for that or was even indicted?

Good God. I don't fucking know. I mean, they run up Flynn on that bullshit charge from, I don't know, like 1790 or some shit that they pulled out of the fucking, their thin air. You know, who is being termed? Who's being termed for this? Like, when you look at this entire shit show for the last. But remember, they're there for you. Yeah. They're just not, though. Like, why can't we have, again, why can't we have an honest conversation about that? But they're not there for us? Yeah.

None or not. Zero. Sorry, I'm sure some of you are good people. I'm all in favor of term limits for politicians. Every single level. Term limits and or, I think one of the best suggestions I heard from, in my mind, a very good friend of mine, he said, you know what? We should make it either exceptionally lucrative or literally. you only get a stipend.

So you should just get a stipend to live or it's fucking public housing in D.C. Yeah. Right? That's acceptable. Or you get paid a million and a half, two million. You get paid enough

so that you're going to attract people from schools that would have otherwise been a CEO candidate at a large corporation. Right? You want to either attract the best and brightest

or people that only want to serve. And then there should be a minimum and maximum age for the love of God. And the horseshit that we have going on now is we're going to pay you enough so you're pretty comfortable. We're also going to make this so

incredibly confusing that you can get away with almost anything. FYI, if you say the right thing to your constituents, you can be here for fucking ever. I was talking to Dan the other day about this. The one-eyed pirate hooker? Yeah, Congressman. Yeah, Congressman. The one-eyed

pirate hooker, congressman. From Texas. From Texas. He said, you know, people have this perception. of there's just massive amounts of corruption throughout the entire political system which is a, it's, that's not inaccurate. You have, uh, it's, it's inaccurate. It's like you have a, you have a blanket amount of corrupt people

working within a system, which is different because it's not a corrupt system. The system is actually fairly well-definite. The people running the levers of the corrupt ones. Right. And they, they have ill intention. And some people have the best of intentions, but the best of intentions sometimes fucking pave the road to hell. So you've got all these different people with conflicting ideology.

and they're all fucking battling it out within this system that ultimately they're saying in very McLellian terms, that means justify the end. And then you have obviously, you know, a separate entity of people that are wielding, you know, real cash to influence the outcome. Yeah. He's one of the only people, I think, that from my perspective has true leadership. and I'm not making it the, you know, the Dan Crenshaw fucking I love you podcast, but he does exemplify real leadership.

He understands what it's like to be deployed in the severities of war. He understands what it's like to be a veteran. He understands what it's like to be an academic. He's got a lot of experience-based knowledge that he brings to the table. I would find it very hard to believe that there's a lot of people in Congress or Senate that have that guy's life experience just in general. I'd have to assume the Republican Party has got him on a trajectory. God, I would hope so.

I, you know, I mean, if there's, if there's any. If they had any common fucking sense, they would. They would. They absolutely would. Well, yeah, but they'll wait 50 years. They'll wait until he's like 75 because that seems to be the common choose right now. I think we're prepared as a country for somebody who's not pushing being an octogenarian or whatever the fuck that is. Who hasn't been a card-carrying AARP member for 20 years?

years. I think we're ready. I mean, I think, yeah. I would love to see that debate, right, between AOC and Dan, right? They're both, they were both freshmen, congressmen and just, this is the kind of public, for us to grow as a society, I think congressmen should be able to challenge, congressmen and senators should be able to challenge other senators to an open forum debate that is televised. At any point in time, and you have to go. It's like, fuck you, let's get on the debate skate. get on the base. Your ideas suck, but we're going to have an economy of ideas and let good ideas raise to the top.

Yes, exactly. And we'll let the citizens decide based on how good you are at articulating these facts. And you could call it kind of a modern day political duel, if you will. You know, not like Alexander Hamilton getting fucking smoked.

Also, though, that would kind of be sweet as well. Well, yeah. I mean, a fucking good old-fashioned duel. Might round the edges on people running their fucking sucks. Thanks, Burr Yeah, exactly And I think that that would

That would emphasize a healthy dialogue Throughout the United States I think if we as citizens We're like, hey, this is what we expect to you Motherfuckers At any point in time somebody challenges you To an intellectual duel You gotta throw down

Yeah, sorry, too bad You owe it to the public You know, obviously there might be a limit To how many of those you would have to do But at the end of the day We should expect that from our politicians because I think people would start to see a more well-rounded and skeptical view of what's happening. And then when they see their fucking favorite politician just implode

and fucking start on fire intellectually because they're dumb as fuck, they'd be like, oh, God, I can't vote this person back in. I mean, shouldn't that be the witness test for what comes out of their mouth? It should be able to withstand the scrutiny of the public specter and the pressure of somebody pushing back on those ideas. Yeah, and you should have a, round table or town hall where people are coming in and talking about these ideas openly, I think that that's what happens with this two-party system as people get locked into their echo chambers. They don't have any accountability other to their voters.

And then they continue to talk to the voters and the people in their party. And it just goes around, around, around. And they're both talking at each other. But they're not talking towards each other in a logical series of debates. But I think that is a forcing function to increasing. people's awareness to what's actually happening on policy. Like, if we would have had a group of congressmen and senators debating Iraq on a fucking... Might have had a slightly different outcome.

I don't think we would have gone. I don't think we would have either. Nope. I don't think... Afghanistan was unavoidable. Agreed. Unavoidable. Like, there...

But to increase troop levels in Afghanistan to a conventional occupying force, like there should have been a long, fucking... national conversation about what was going on and the long-term effects of what this plays out, what it looks like, what is the strategic value of Afghanistan, what is the strategic value of Iraq, pull back the curtain. What's the strategic value of Syria? Yeah. What's the strategic value of Syria?

At the end of the day, you might come out with a lot of different options that people, it might unsettle their comfort level and break them out of their box. And then in that process, I would hope that they would grow as human beings. And therefore, our society would continue to evolve. Yeah, and we might even get a third party in this, which I think would probably fucking be the best, one of the best things that we could have in this country is a viable third party because it forces accountability on both ends versus these guys can,

at the end of the day, they can start cutting deals. They can do whatever they want. Yeah. Yeah, can do whatever they want. No, I think, you know, one of probably the most important things that we have to do even, you know, in the next few weeks, right? I mean, Georgia is the battleground state, right? I mean, Georgia is where everything will be determined. So if we think that it's going to be blue all the way through, man, that does not look good.

I think when you have blue all the way through, that's a, there's a lot of things that can happen really fucking fast that would have a direct impact on our daily life. lives and that would be pretty fucking scary for you know team red not to be able to block that through filibuster to keep maintain the majority uh jerry just got back from georgia we were helping dan film his next commercial so we helped him on the first one and we're helping him on the second one too uh and you know that's because we fucking truly do believe in dan uh and kind of made the best ideas win but I think that anytime you have that fucking just long corridor of nothing but bad ideas fucking rolling through the halls, that's when you start to get things there to get really wonky when there's no checks and balances.

I was just going to say that absent the ability to have a check and balance. It's not even bad ideas. You know, you're looking at something a little bit scarier, which is lockstep, party line, yeah, voting. You know, you look at the voting history of, the House and the Senate. And from when it started till now, right? And the lockstep voting has become almost routine. Meaning they will only vote party lines.

Only vote party line or abstain. And that's hyper rare to abstain. And people get hammered for it. Yeah. Which is weird. There is no way that the constituents, by majority, of every one of those, public servants, counties or states

is telling them to vote exactly the way that they're doing lock step on every single vote for the last 35 years. There's no fucking way. That is not how this works. That cannot be possible just statistically. Right. Right?

So what we're seeing is a two-party system where both parties control their Congress, men, and women, and their senators. and they do what they want. That's it. They're not there for you.

The only way to make this happen a little more constructively is to get a third party in where now one of those two parties has to play a fucking game where they need that other party to help them out. And you know what happens?

You get a little bit more discourse. Oh yeah. Because if the thorn in the side is a problem for those guys over there or these guys over here, you're going to want them on your side. And if that's what takes that's what has to happen otherwise we're going to maintain this lockstep

approach and we're going to walk ourselves right to hell not we they will walk the rest of us all the way there let's go find a ship with some tea on it I can't get it shit off I it's just it's tough for me to stomach the professional sports atmosphere the political spectrum. Hey, well, fortunately, we're going to have at least six months of it off because I'm sure the fucking 2024 election will start in June. Yeah, it will. God. Yeah, 2024 is going to start like tomorrow. These people are not. Tomorrow. We're never going to end this. I'm so saturated with it. I'm just like, fucking stop. I just, well, all it was just like, man, like I had to turn all politics off.

Like a couple weeks, three weeks, four weeks ago, whenever it was. And I just had to tune it the fuck out because it's just it's it's so fucking depressing at times or you're like all right i got to turn this off i got to like do something else unfortunately i had to step right back into it you know for a combination of reasons that was your own choice i mean you chose to sponsor kyle so god no it was a small package i tell you what i have taken a lot of fucking heat for my stance with that kid really it's uh i mean i've been pretty open and honest about it one I don't think he had any business being there. I don't argue that, you know, the actions he took were it appears to be in self-defense.

But my issue with the whole thing is it was fucking avoidable. And there is a difference between a 17-year-old kid, which happens very infrequently, going into the military. And a 17-year-old kid who has self-admittedly executed the purchase of that rifle via straw man purchase with his stimulus money. His 18-year-old friend bought it for him and gave it to him. And again, the legal system can handle that. I'm not going to put a value judgment on that. It's either legal or illegal. Right.

Goes to that environment. And the thing is, you know, I can understand why he would want to make a difference. But where's the leadership around him? Where's his parents? Where are the people who are saying, hey, you know what? You're not in the military. It's not your job or responsibility to do this. I can understand him wanting to be there and make a difference.

And a lot of people have said, well, the people he killed were felons. I'm like, yeah, he didn't fucking know that in the moment, though. And even if he did know that, it still doesn't make those actions just. Just on that front alone. Like he was making decisions absent that information. Whether or not he acted in self-defense, that'll be handled in the courtroom. Like I said, my own personal opinion after watching the videos, it seems that he was. But it was all avoidable.

Exactly. All fucking avoidable, man. If you go to a bar tonight looking to make sure that nobody does anything stupid and you get involved in a fight, you weren't there to start. what preceded you going there even if the end result is you stopped a bully from doing something bad, right?

Now I just broke that down into something very soft, but that you know, the kid precipitating that entire event was a long thought process and discourse with other people, right? He didn't do this in a vacuum.

And everybody that's like, oh, you're not standing up for 2A. Like, you know, know what? I couldn't stand up more for the 2A. Or guess what? Self-defense, which is a weird comment that was on your Instagram. Like, yeah, we know you believe in the Second Amendment, but do you believe in self-defense? It's like, that's a

fucking rhetorical question. But all these guys that are out there, you know, screaming the, you have to defend the two, like, where were you that day or that evening when a 17-year-old kid showed up, and if you're so pro-2A, you should know the fucking legality of him

owning that firearm and stop him and pull him aside and like, hey man, what are you doing here? Yeah. You know, where was the leadership there? Where was the community effort in helping him? He could have avoided this entire scenario, an adult, an actual adult, and I'm saying that because he wasn't an adult, could have pulled him aside and said,

hey, man, you know, we're really stoked you're here. You really shouldn't have that here. Go ahead and put it away. And you know what he wouldn't have done? He might not have walked down that street. He might not have ended up getting into a scenario where he had to run and then defend himself with a weapon he shouldn't have had at an event, he shouldn't have had the thing.

You know, the leadership is a community effort. We don't operate in vacuums. And I really feel for that kid because he was allowed to operate in a manner that was purely crowdfunded. And the actions can't be taken back. No, they allowed this intellectual crowdfunding and group think to go on.

Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Works. Fantastic. Very little. And there's other issues, too. I mean, let's be honest,

the state and federal government should have handled that issue long before. Yes. Anybody else was in the streets to have to handle that. And again, I like to go even further back to where your point is,

which is these riots should have never been allowed to take place in the first place. Correct. Yeah. Like, there should have never been a circumstance where civilians

felt like, they had to defend themselves. There should have never been a circumstance. And what happens is that now the onus or the reliability or not reliability, the, everything is basically rusting on this kid that ultimately it wasn't his responsibility to stabilize and prevent. It was the responsibility of the state and the local government and they failed in that. So where is the accountability before?

This entire thing happened. It's left completely out of the conversation. It is. The state and city failed the entire, both groups. Both groups. And then his community failed him. Nobody should have felt. This shouldn't happen.

No person in their community should have felt like they had to go and defend property against people that were going to destroy it, against criminals that were going to destroy their property. What happened, I truly believe, is these local municipalities, they didn't stand up because they were afraid. They didn't push back. They didn't push back. and they didn't want to take accountability

for what was going to happen in this volatile situations. And those were a lot of elected officials that people in those municipalities are paying to not do anything. And so when we go back, because they want to get reelected. Yeah, they want to get reelected. There's nobody standing up there

taking accountability for that and say, this is my fault this ever happened. This should have never happened. Yeah, you don't see the mayor going, I'm really sorry he felt like he needed to defend himself. Where is the mayor in this? Where are the local and state officials that are resigning because this entire thing went down? People should not be permitted to just burn down fucking businesses.

We should be seeing city councils stepping down. Yes. Not saying let's de-let's defun. Every day. Like, let's fix this as a group. They should be saying let's defund the police. That's the solution. Oh, well, that worked.

Did you see how well that worked? Fantastic. It worked really fucking well. In the end, I feel terrible for Kyle. And people can love or hate him. it's not about that. It's about the fact that a 17-year-old kid was thrust into an environment, whether voluntarily or absent good leisureship. You know, whatever you want to describe it, he ended up there. And before even hitting an age of a legal adult, he was involved in something

that's going to impact his life for the rest of his life. And I just, I feel for him because it was completely and utterly fucking avoidable. Yeah. You cannot revoke what happened. Yeah. And it shouldn't have happened for, from him being there to him purchasing it, to the community, to the municipality, stopping Molotov cocktails going through windows. Right. You know, as far back as you want to step this, that's as far back as you can look at it

as this is not just the actions of a single person doing one thing that caused all of it, right? He's not to blame for this. This isn't just his fault for being in the scenario. This is fucking everybody's fault. This is a nightmare of a community failure. Well, it's kind of like I've thought about this a lot over the last few years because when guys were going under scrutiny for war crimes, for instance, right? Okay, so where is the accountability of our senators and our congressmen in the former White House for putting the soldiers to begin with in that circumstance?

And profiting off of it. Correct. So where is the accountability there? Like why is this 18 year old kid, this 19 year old kid or Marine, you know, that group of Marines that were tried a few years ago? That's right. They shouldn't have been there to begin with. So why were they there? And if we all sat there, we've all did the, I think we're, have we all done, were you Iraq or just Afghanistan?

Just Afghanistan. Not that it means anything. I'm just, you know, being in Iraq for four and a half years, give or take. And it means something, they were very different countries. Yeah. For sure. It was a different experience. Very different experience.

And, you know, thinking about the accountability of every one of our elected officials that has ultimately landed us there. And then thinking about the long-term effects in the Middle East, thinking about, you know, I go back to that simple meme of the kid on the bus that Simpson's character. He's like, I'm in danger. It's like, the Middle East is that kid. is that kid, because now when we look at the political establishment that could possibly step in, looking at how people are held accountable and they're not, because they're absolutely not held accountable, we're teeing other soldiers to go over at 18 years old,

to burden the responsibility of combat actions, and then make very definitive choices that are make or break with a non-fully developed brain as you're getting fucking shot at and watching your fucking buddies get blown up, I don't know. Maybe people need to have a little bit more empathy in those situations for the individual and why did they end up there to begin with. And then follow the chain of accountability because that's the way every fucking corporation

in America works. I don't get to just fucking opt out of something stupid that my employees do. I don't get to do that. I have to take accountability and I have to take action. So there is a long-term effect, I think, of politicians, not being held accountable and ultimately being able to lie because I mean that's what they do. They get to just fucking lie and they get to spin whatever narrative they want and they can dig themselves out of the hole by winning favor in a news cycle or whatever it might be. It's truly when I look at this and I say, you know, when we look at even the Benghazi incident, you know, some of the bigger incidents that have happened in our fucking niece or near-hazir,

history, why were those guys duking it out for their lives on the rooftop in Benghazi? What were the actions that led up to that event? Yeah. Or the lack of actions. Lack of actions. What were the things that we could have done to prevent that from happening earlier on? And where are the elected officials stepping into the hole going, this is my fault, not their fault.

Don't blame them. This is my fault. Not one person all the way up the fucking chain of command took responsibility for that. It was actually the opposite. It was exactly the opposite. People didn't get fired. People didn't get their clearances revoked. People didn't get fucking moved.

They didn't go to jail. They said it's not my fault. Yeah, they jumped out of the way like there was a runaway train coming out of. Yeah, they did. Yeah. Which tells me they're all selfish, self-entitled, and they have one objective. The people are like individual grains of sand on the sidewalk that they're, walking to get to where they need to go.

That's all they're doing. Wow. Did I just depress you? I'm thinking. This is my thinking face. That's your pensive thinking face. Yeah. It's a great stocking cap.

It really is. Your wife nailed it. This is from our bear trip last year? No, moose. Moose? Well, I wouldn't know because I didn't see a moose the entire time. I did last day. Yeah, good for you.

I hope you missed. No, I didn't. I hope the meat spoiled. I hope the meat spoiled before. you got to it and you get trigonosis. We both ran it across the border. I hope you didn't declare it in the Canadian Mounties come and find you. Well, shit.

Is that it, Andy? Break until tomorrow. We still have tomorrow. Round one. What times you guys flight tomorrow? Complete. I don't know. Mike, I think, fuck, I don't even know.

I don't even know what time our flight is. Daytime. Yeah. Daytime? It's noon, I think. Give or take. Perfect. We can hit another one in the morning.

Yeah, why not? I think we've been out of for two and a half anyway. Have we really? Closing thoughts, Trevor. When are you starting jiu-jitsu? Good answer. Closing thoughts, Evan? Sounds like tonight.

Travis wouldn't give a fuck. I just had the Christians in arms crew. I think I have signed the waiver already. They came up and they're like, and he said he wants to roll with this. Is that okay? And he just shakes it. He's like, go sign the fucking.

waiver yeah yeah send the waiver good job dummy that's the first and then I actually actually after the experience with Jocko I have a conversation like do you understand the theory of tapping you can end this at any time verbally with your feet with your hands you can say tap you can screen tap we can just just tap when you're uncomfortable and they're like okay now sign this now sign the waivers first that conversation is after the way right Travis just shakes his head and fucking laughs he's like just fucking sign the waiver just sign the fucking wait what's your belt anyway right now blue same blue Yeah. I just try to tap people to that black rifle logo on the ghee. It's awesome because it gets super sweating just drive it into their face hole.

People are asking which face hole, whatever one I want to. Yeah, exactly. For as long as I want to, unless I'm on the bottom and then I just try to get up. Well, thanks, Andy. I appreciate it, buddy. Stakes. Go pick up some stakes. Let's go get some stakes. Cook them on the trigger. All right, chance. Thank you again to ExpressVPN for your support of this podcast episode. For the listeners, visit expressvpn.com slash clearedhot right now and you can arm yourself with an extra three months of expressVPN for free. That's expressvpn.com slash clearedhot. Visit expressvpn.com slash clearedhot to learn more.