Cleared Hot - Powered By BRCC - Episode 164 - John Dudley

Episode Date: January 18, 2021

John Dudley is a world-class archer and coach.  He is the founder of Nock on Archery, the one-stop-shop for information, equipment, and instruction for archers and bowhunters of all levels.  Ladder Life Insurance Express VPN Athletic Greens Better Help

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Take the time to invest in yourself. And that's it. My guest today is one of the most amazing people that I have been so incredibly fortunate to be introduced to throughout my life. Longtime friend John Dudley. Now, the year 2020 basically conspired against us to either be able to hunt together or go shoot a total archery challenge together or even actually see each other at all. I'm not even sure we saw each other in 2020, but it was accidental.

It wasn't intentional, and it was really weird because some people thought we were having a falling out of sorts, which is ridiculous because Dudley is awesome. He's one of the most generous human beings I've ever met in my life when it comes to his knowledge and his time. He is a world-class archer. In addition to that, a world-class bow hunter. But both of those things, as amazing as they are, what I appreciate the most about him is his ability to take his knowledge and experience and pass it on to other people. He's a world-class coach as well. Knock on archery.com is like a landing page for everything you could need when it comes to archery or bow hunting or everything in between. You're going to have the school and knock where he's going to take you from A to Z.

Videos on tuning your equipment and how to select your equipment. And then he has options for the equipment in and of itself. It's ridiculous. He's an amazing wealth of knowledge. And he flew out to Montana with his wife, Sharon, and surprised me, didn't know they were coming. One of the best surprises I've had in years. So, of course, we sat down and talked for a few hours. And it was kind of a Q&A back and forth. He solicited for questions and we answered them. And then I asked him if you as well. Episode number 164 with John Dudley. Enjoy it. Everything's recording. It's on you. Are we going sunglasses? I would. I mean, I'll probably take him off at sunset.

point. But, dude, cheers. Indeed. Who knows where this is going to go? You better swing that thing closer. You know the deal. There you go. I don't. These are the Rogan mics. You got to just say the way. I know. It's been a while. It's been a while. I'm used to like the helicopter setup, which is normally what I go with.

I like that too. But this is nice because I can back away and not give people the ice. Because people get sick of the ice, but I'm a fluid drinker. Is that fair to say? Yes, we have drank a lot of fluid in our days. In our limited days together, we've had some fluid. Speaking of, it's about time to switch this out.

It's a little bit towards the tail end of the keg, I think. It is. It didn't have quite the milky waterfall. It's starting to taste just a touch austere. Mmm. Yeah. So what would be the level right above that? Jockstrapy.

And we're like how far are you going to take this career as like an official wine taster? Somalié? Yeah, I mean. If you go to the Calais. I don't think you can only be a Somalié because your palate is very diverse. True. So. But Somaliers have to understand cigars, wine, bourbons.

And it's more than just knowledge too, right? You have to understand the old world, new world. world, the grapes, the vintages, tastings, pairing notes. So I don't know how far I'm going to go. But if you go to the Calispell Wikipedia page, I'm listed as a notable person as a smolier. I wouldn't doubt it. I, by the way, didn't put myself there, but somebody did, and I appreciate that.

That is awesome. That's hilarious. Because I don't know shit about wine. What's funny is when you get someone that pretends to be a Somalié, but they're absolutely horrible. Sharon and I ordered a really good bottle of wine. And the dude, I was asking him about it. And he was giving me his opinion.

And as he was giving me his opinion, I'm like, I don't think this guy even knows anything about this subject. Like, I feel like the Somali didn't show up that night. So they just had this kid do it. And then once I watched him try to uncork the bottle, I realized he had never used. Texas chainsaw massacre scene. Yeah, he had never used that thing ever a day of his life.

And then that was it. I've had some questionable uncorkings where eventually the cork just went down into the bottle of wine and then I got a little screen filter to pour it through. No, there's been a lot of hunting camps where that's how I did open it. Yeah. It's all the push in is. It's the way to go. You can do that anywhere.

With a lot of things. Here we go. Which leads into probably one of the top questions here, no. Q&A on the old knock-on podcast. All right. I'm Gabe. Right. So I just... Very rarely do I get to be the recipients of the...

I mean, I do Friday episodes where people ask me questions. I know. But it's never like an interview setting. It's me like, so, Andy, what do you think about this? Well, I'm glad that you asked me. Let me... Well, I pretty much just went oldest first. And, I mean, it starts with K. Rod 1-1-1.

It's saying, would like to hear Andy's take on his singing career with Creed. So a lot of people listening. That was perfect. I think that that was the first time I've ever been compared and contrasted with Scott Stapp, the lead singer of Creed, a band that largely shaped American music culture and has taken us in a different creative direction. Higher, I mean. Is a notable song. I have no idea what that dude is up to these days. I have been compared to him for years.

So when I see it start coming out, I'm just like, all right, motherfuckers. like fire away. I actually, at a phase of my life, enjoyed Creed. Me too. There was some, there was, I don't remember the album at all, but it, as you were obviously having fun with your mobile Photoshop app on your phone and you kept posting. It wasn't me, to be fair. It was a buddy of mine, Fred Gross.

Who was submitting? Yeah, yeah. He, he actually, I woke up that same morning and I opened it up. And the picture, like I didn't read the caption yet. It was just the picture. And at first it was kind of like what's handy been arrested for because it was like, I saw you and that one next to it. And I'm like, wait a minute.

And then I read, you know, have you ever realized how close he looks to Creed? And I'm like, oh my God. And so I just posted it without even thinking, you know, hoping you would see it. And then. Oh, I saw it. Well, then within. But the move, though, is not to react. I'm just going to show everyone on the camera.

Pointed at that one. Why? It's further away. But all right, I did it. Yeah, that is totally your move. But I will say when I text you the link, how fast you responded with a picture of your radio with that song on was... It's in the playlist on my phone.

I was going to say you were actually listening to that song by how fast you... I scrolled to it, hit it, was listening to it, took the picture. picture and send it to you within a few minutes, yeah. So not the first time that that comparison has been brought up. Well, I mean, how do you feel like you sing in the shower to this? I don't sing. And the speakers at the house are all in the front room. So shower time is just shower time.

It is continually a letdown, though, trying to surprise you with something where you think you got, where you think you, we're like you're expecting, oh, this is going to get Andy to react and then but last night kind of had you. Oh, for sure. And the thing is I didn't know who it was but and so we're sitting here in Calispell. Dudley flew in last night. Surprised the hell out of me. I had no idea you guys were coming. It seems like it was kind of a group effort. Yeah. To put it together. Yeah, we did. Brian disappears saying nothing at the end of the dinner table and they're like, oh yeah, it's going to get ice cream. And in the back of my head, it was his cheat day. Well, it was his cheat day. Yeah. I tell you. Okay. So.

My man goes big on his cheat days because we went to breakfast that morning. And he was asking about- That was part of the play too. He said he knew he had to tee it up. No, don't listen to him. He's so full of shit. He wanted a cheat day because in the days before this, he's like, have you ever tried keto?

Have you ever heard of the keto flu? My head hurts. So he was either the most invested long-term strategy or he just realized that, you know, those would tie in. So we're at breakfast. And he's asking a lady about their, what the hell biscuits and gravy she's like yeah you know we have one biscuit and we cut it in half and he's like I'll take four biscuits smothered in gravy so they bring out a horse trough of four

massive biscuits of which he mows three and a half I go to his house later in the day because I was going to do was that the same day yeah I was linking up with Nelson he was on shit you had to wake him up no he was awake he's in the garage tinkering he's like a little elf he's always in the garage tinkering because I was going to do a ride-along with Nelson, which they shut down, because apparently you can't have a passenger with COVID. And he had gone through an entire trough of crispy creams. So he went from biscuits and gravy. Erica said she did four of those donuts.

So that leaves the other six to eight for him. And he was just bap down his face. So when they were saying he, we went to go get ice cream. I was like, fuck, man. This guy likes a cheat day. And then back man, I'm like, where is he going to get this ice cream, though? Because it was almost 10 o'clock. So he's on the Rock Johnson cheat day.

He's on the go big sleep, probably like a baby last night and wake up feeling like garbage day. Yeah, I was going to say it's going to take two days just to get back into the rhythm. But yeah, you guys surprised me for sure. I heard him pull up and I saw more, I was facing away from you. But the reflection was going right back that way. And I saw your black jacket and somebody who was smaller. I'm like, okay, there's more people with him. But yeah, you got, yeah, you actually were able to get up to me before I realized.

I noticed that, too. When he walked in, I seen you facing away and I thought, oh, baby, I might be able to get him. And, well, very different, I had very different thought process because two years ago, I know what I would have done coming over the back of you. but this time I'm like he's going to like break something if I like do something now because he's going to assume someone from the gyms like tackling him and we're going to end up rolling

so I was kind of like maybe if I just went with like the shoulder massage instead of like coming over and like trying to throw a choke that I don't know how to do on you that would be sweet though yeah and then and then I saw you I knew I had your back neck was exposed which was good but then and I was using him as my blocker and then I seen him

step to the side and I could see my reflection in the in that glass pane that was on the other side of the room and I'm like damn it now he knows like I didn't turn around to see who it was I just knew he wasn't by himself I seen your like radar goes up you know like when you're behind your dog that's on the ground and you're trying to sneak up to him and you can kind of see their ears just barely move to where they know something's back there, but they just have made the decision not to turn around yet. That's what you had done. And I thought, okay. So yeah, you turned around and, you know, your eyes were a little watery. I know. Everybody was like, you weren't surprised. I'm like, that was my surprise reaction. You've been around me enough. I don't, I'm not

super high or low. I'm kind of just. Yeah, you're just riding it out. I'm just kind of baseline most days. But that was cool. Yeah. That was awesome. I can't thank you guys enough for coming out. It was fucking amazing. Took us two days to get here. I mean, we sat on the tarmac long enough to miss the next flight, so then we ended up having to go back home a day ago. Which is the move, though. It was the move. We were talking last night. You don't want to get stuck. For people listening who don't travel much, if you are ever presented with the opportunity to miss a connection in Denver and stay overnight, or just rebook. Because the probably closest airport to the Denver, airport is 45 minutes. It's not easy to get to the shuttles. It's rebook, go home the next day,

or go back the next day and repeat. It's not the place where I would stay overnight. But we, yeah, we waited a day and then came in and, yeah, we're able to surprise you guys. And then today had just a cool, this was like a super low vibe day for both of us. All of us, we're like, it's pretty rare you just wake up whenever. I almost never have time to just chill and ease my way into it. It's one of the nicest things about it, actually, is just to be able to relax. Yeah, we snowboard. Oh, we don't. I don't care. Which we'll do tomorrow, I think. Yeah, tomorrow will be the better day. So that'll be interesting. I think that question's in here, too. Let's move on. So this was a good question. Randy T-21. So let's hear about the best lessons Dudley's taught

Andy in regards to archery and stalking. That's a pretty good question. Yeah. Because I always wondered that. Just based on like your background, my back, like, when you and I first hunted the first time together, I was, I was, I almost felt like I'm going to be doing a bunch of shit wrong where you're going to be thinking like, hey, dude. No.

Yeah. So maybe we can go backwards and talk stalking first and then archery. So the stalking that I did in the military. what's the name of the movie where is a clear and present danger where the guy is like he had lunch here sir double cheeseburger that's the type of stalking so and so when you go to sniper school it's you start at 1500 yards to a thousand yards out and it's actually a lot that movie um makes things look a lot cooler than it actually is there are people sitting in a table with binoculars yeah but it's really small micro movements because you're trying to defeat human eyes. looking through optics. So it's a lot of straight forward and back. You don't want to move side to side. You learn the difference between, you know, cover and concealment.

And then dead space is the biggest one. Yeah. Because you can crawl 1500 yards. You got to get, I think, to within 200 yards to 180 to take your blank shots. Mm-hmm. You can crawl that if you want. The instructors don't care. You're not going to be able to walk the next day.

How do I know this? Because I did it. And also attached to your foot is a drag bag with your rifle in it. So as you're just like, then you've got to do this move with your foot like, So you're doing. Obliak. Oh, I remember waking up the next day and just like, oh, God. And you're doing two stocks a day.

So they separated sniper school into the shooting phase where all you do is shoot. And then you go out, I went out to Nileland and all you do is stock in high desert, which is a bitch, you know, tumbleweeds and sagebrush and not a lot of color differentiation. So yeah, the first few days, I crawled a lot of. And then I remember specifically, I was in the middle of probably an 800-yard crawl and sweating profusely because the sun was beating down on me. And about three feet to my right, a good friend of mine had his drag bag shouldered and was just walking. And I'm sitting there looking at him waiting for the radio to kick off because it's almost like that video where they had walkers with radios and they're like left. Because they'll try to, they want to put the antenna or the base of the radio.

if you get to a place where you take a shot you'll take your first shot and a walker will move to within 10 yards. Maybe he's in front of you though or behind you or left and right and they'll use the radio to try to locate you and they'll have you reload and take another shot and I think if you can get to that it was an 8

and if they can't see you after that it's a 10. So it's a mathematical thing. So on the radio they'll hear him like, freeze and like God damn I hope they're not looking at me. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm just sitting there look. I could hear the crunching of the rocks.

I'm looking out of the corner of my eye. And he's just walking. I'm like, what the fuck? And he goes past me and I'm just waiting for the freeze. Nothing. And so I crawled over to where he was and just started sitting up a little bit. And there was a massive tree. Yeah.

Directly in between the table. You could see like both ends at the table. Yep. And then the huge tree trunk. And then after that, instead of, My tactic before that was full back dive. As soon as they said go, I would start trying to make movement. I totally changed it to locate the table, locate the dead space in between the table

and where I want to shoot from, and then walk. And then navigate. Because I wanted to be the guy who was walking past the person, as opposed to the dude laying on the ground suffering in every aspect of life, mentally, physically. I wanted to be the guy who's just like laughing as you're walking by. I always wondered the instructors, obviously they know there's probably three or four weaknesses that is where the best approach would happen. I always wondered, are they more focused there because they know like, okay, this is where people. If you're doing the right thing, they will give you a little bit of latitude.

Like if you're moving at them, because there are times where you'd get to 200, I remember this happened me a few times. You get like just outside maybe 20 or 30 yards farther away than you have to be to get into that window. And, you know, that your last concealment would be this big bush. And there's ways you can deal with that. And obviously under the binos, they're ranging. They know where you're probably going to come from. But you could gather foliage from the back of the bush and make a fan on the front of your rifle in your gilly suit. And then slowly work your way to the front of that bush and move towards them.

because under optics, it's still just going to look like the bush. They're going to see that. But if they see you doing that and it's the right thing, they're going to give you some latitude. Yeah. If you're just moving left or right or you have shitty, you know, camouflage, they're going to bust you on the spot. And the walkers... So they may have certain things where they're like, if they're doing the protocols they need to do, we're letting them do it because most likely their target isn't going to be glazing at this tree because they know that's where everything's coming from type thing. Correct.

And it's a school. They do want you to learn. Yeah. If you stand up and walk laterally, which don't get me wrong, I did this too, because you can lose track of your dead space as well. Yeah. You're like, I'm going to just walk over that tree and then you're just walking and you're like, oh, hey guys.

You guys good? You guys looking at me under the Binoes? Okay, cool. I'm just going to go get back to the truck because this is zero. There were people who had stalk past the table. It was awesome. People would go buy? No, they'd get in ravines.

Oh. And they would start making movement and you'd see it. Like, so the table is here and they're two guys facing you. Yeah. And you'd be like farther back getting ready to set up your shot. And like over here you'd see a head pop up. But they're looking this way. And you can just see the back of the guy's head with his binos.

He's just like, hmm. Where did the table go? There was a tape and then hmm. And they're just, you can just see him scanning left and right. And then eventually it gets faster. They're just like, fuck. And then usually. Have you ever seen one turn around, look back?

Usually that's what happens. They'll put the binoes down, and you can just kind of see them like, when their head comes down and just defeat, and they start turning around. And a lot of the times the guys at the table, like, hey, what's up? You know, head back to the truck. So that's the stalking that I did. That shit is not really applicable to hunting.

What I learned in that school, well, some of it is. You tell me if I'm wrong when it comes to, you know, big game hunting. To me, it's more about when you can move or knowing when you can move and when you can't. Mm-hmm. Because if you're... Yeah, for sure.

You and I have had some animals come in very close, and if you stand still, they may know you there, but they're not going to spook off, but if you move, you're Foxville. Well, our camo is definitely made a huge, like, subalpine is crazy. Crazyest animal interactions I ever had

were with that watching at a distance. I give credit to head. hex too for I mean I do give credit to that system but when it comes to like visual there's times where you can tell if someone's looking at you or something's looking past you yes and we've had a lot of things where we've both froze gloves full mask I mean it's more or less just our eyes and I've been looking at this you know whether it's a pig or a bear or whatever thinking like okay well that thing is not looking at it heard something and it's looking over here but it does not know what we are you could almost uh watch and had it a few times happen with elk at at the des where they're looking at

me and you could almost watch the focus of their eye shift where now look and i'm just sitting there like i'm not here yeah i'm not here yeah yeah you know so i would say to the person who asked that question when it came to and i'll still answer the archery portion when it came to the animals so all i might have all the stalking experience in the world on the military side of the house. I had never been around an elk or a mule deer. So it was more, and I'm sure you remember me asking you a bunch about this. You know, like, what are elk keying off? Is it smell more important? Or is their sight more important? Or they're hearing. Trying to figure out what their strength is. So that is the huge deficit I had. I understood camouflage. Yeah. Terrain study and dead space,

which all that stuff still works on the animals. But I had no idea what spooks an elk. I mean, their nose is massive, but if, but I don't know if their vision sucks. And you've had decades of experience around the animals. So that is what I learned the most. And then on the archery side, I mean, people, I mean, if there's one thing I could recommend, it's just have a system. And from the first day that you started teaching me how to shoot, it was the feet up from here's how you have your feet. Here's how you hold the bow. How you raise it up. Pull it back, anchor, align your sight, let it float and pull through the shot. And I just try to do that, whether I'm shooting at a foam target or an animal walks out.

Yeah. Because it takes, I don't have to think about, I mean, there's a difference, right, between a shooting at a 3D elk and then a forest beast that just finished kicking the shit out of everything in a five-mile radius screaming at you. If you think, if you're, for me, if I start thinking about how like killer that animal looks or how excited I am, I'm probably going to mess up the shot. So what I focus on is feet, grip, bringing it up, pull, anchor. and I just, all I focus on is the system,

and I try to just let go of everything else, because all I can control is the system. So that's the biggest thing archery-wise. Did you do that, like, on the military side, too, when you were sniping, where you really focused on a certain, I mean, I would assume yes, because I know the times where you've talked to me a little bit about, you know, we did some long-range shooting stuff,

and you worked with me. And so you were, I mean, really adamant about, like, getting my feet out the right way and pushing down on it. to where you knew I wasn't like kind of centralizing pressure. I was like equally distributing everything. And then just like the bicep squeeze. Like I don't remember the steps of that stuff that we were going through. But did you have a very systematic protocol for that for like making those shots to where that was helping your conscious stay occupied enough to where you were able to, you know, to make that shot without having to think about, you know,

I don't know, the after effect of what if this shot lands where it should, what if it doesn't? Because, I mean, you were, if you were going through that system, obviously, you were occupying the mind to where you weren't letting some of that other stuff factor in. Well, I tried to teach you the long-range shooting stuff with the same vernacular that you taught me archery. So that way we have, you know, the similar common ground. Common ground, but again, so, you know, I had you line up directly behind the rifle and then lay down, as opposed to having the rifle canted it aside or your spine can't at a side. Because there was a technique you'd use that I wasn't really qualified for. I don't know if you remember it.

Yeah, but I can do a lot of advanced shooting techniques. You're talking about the Western foot technique. Yeah, the kick out to the side, layover technique. It takes years. It takes years. But it starts with, you know, laying down behind the rifle and you got to get rid of places of tension instead of having, you know, being a rigid body, you want to get relaxed, you want it all based off a structure. Once you get into that good structure, I mean, it's, you talk about all the time

the surprise break. Yeah. Not like, oh my God, I can't believe the gun just fired, meaning that you accept a hovering of your sight, because the farther way a shot is on a long range rifle, you should expect that your crosshairs or reticle, it's going to move. At 100 yards, you can hold it in like a little tiny section, but the farther the shot gets away, the more it's going to move. And the more you try to control that, the worse it's going to be. So you have to accept the float and then you have to control what I thought about most, the approach that I went through. And my old job was controlling my breathing, getting that foundation behind the rifle,

so everything was mechanically in order. And then I would just control my breathing, accept the float. And then the last and most important thing on long-range marksmanship is the surprise break. Just pulling through the shot, I mean, the anticipation. is just, it's so incredibly apparent driving shots down into the left. Is that the most common when people are... Especially with pistol, right-handed shooters, because they'll see, they line up their sights and they're right-handed,

so they're right-hand dominant, and they just wanted to go off right there because their sights on the target, and they push it down into the right as they're driving the gun. Oh, okay. Or down into the left, sir. That's the most common sign of anticipation shooting. Yeah, I feel like my background or what I did to overcome

from target anticipation and archery, I feel like when I got instruction from you on the rifle side or Evan on the handgun side, I feel like it was so easy. It almost seems like... A lot of parallels. If people learned archery, like if people did a year of unanticipated shot breaks with archery

and then went into a firearm, I wonder if that would be a better way to do it for longevity of someone being a super legit, like firearm person. I don't know, because I've heard you talk about this in your archery career, where you've gone through phases of having target panic. The same thing happens on the gun side of the house. And one of the best ways to expose it is to put dummy rounds in your magazines. Because you will learn to compensate for poor technique. Yeah. But I keep hitting low and left.

So all right, I'm just going to aim up into the right. And then you get that dummy around in there. And you're like, click. Like, oh, yeah, that never happens. It's like, ah, it's actually happening every time you're compensating. And I've had times where I'm like that behind a gun where you're sitting there and you can feel yourself tensing up. You're like, oh, I want it. And you have to consistently break through that.

I'd say if you could master it on either archery or pistol or rifle, there would be an overlay back and forth between the two. It seems like it would be a lot harder to avoid getting that at some point with a firearm just because, especially when it comes to like your speed drills. I mean, like I have tons of patience on archery shots because, you know, I'm not, it's not like my bow is reloading itself to where, you know, and maybe if a bow was one, you know, maybe if I had one of those bows, it was just like shot, shot, shot, shot, you know, or you know, where you. you started like going through a course and like see if I can take out 15 hogs before the pack gets out of there type thing. I'm sure you would develop it. So it's hard, I think, with like any type of semi-auto where you have a shot instantly at the ready by the time you've relaxed your finger off the trigger. Yeah. It would probably be a lot easier to start that anticipation. Well, it's easier to start at closer distances. Yeah. Because if you're shooting 10 to 15,

yards, I mean, quite frankly, you can get away with a lot. But if you add a zero to that, people come unwound. Like, why can't I hit it? And all it really is, and I'm sure the same is true in archery, all it really is that distance is just magnifying the errors that you had up close. Yep. You can just get away with more up close. And here's one thing people ask me a lot, too.

They're like, well, how steady are you holding is your pin? And here's the thing. I'm by no means a sharpshooter with a bow. but I've been standing with you when you're taking some long shots. And I would say they're not generally by choice. That's the shot that presented itself. But I'll watch your stabilizer or I'll watch the tip of your arrow. And I think that people feel like that yours doesn't move.

Oh, yeah. And it does. And sometimes it moved. I'm not going to say drastically because I'm not looking through the peep, but it's not, it's anything but stable. Yeah. I'm not a rock. Nobody is. Yeah. And if you can get past that, it's amazing if you can focus.

on that surprise release. I've had some rifle shots where I'm like, oh, God, I definitely missed that. But it's like, you're, because you had such good mechanics, it's like you will the round on target. Or even with archery too, where it's floating.

I'm like, I don't really feel like that released when it was where it was supposed to go. And then it's an amazing shot. And it's, I mean, I don't know how or why that is. Maybe that's the subconscious. I feel like the subconscious has a lag. Like, I feel like, you know,

your visual picture versus what the subconscious is doing. I feel like there's a slight lag in like, you know, internet buffering there. Yeah. To where your subconscious has realized, like, what, where that pin is going and is already making the corrections to bring it back, but your visual is still seeing that movement going to the maximum off

and then just starting to see it maybe come back. But visually, you're seeing something that's behind what the subconscious is already done. So, like, even though you feel like you're off, if you're trust in that float and then just being dynamic, it seems like your subconscious has already, like, brought it back to where you really visually haven't seen it yet when that shot breaks.

It's almost uncanny how it goes where you want it to go. For me, the easiest way to miss is to try really hard to hold my pin as steady as possible. Yeah. And then I also like to pack the shoulder. and hold my breath. That works too. Yeah. I learned that from Evan. Yeah, Evan has mastered that technique.

And in fact, I'm trying to get lessons with Evan to like work on, you know, my breath hold and shoulder pack. But he is booked out right now. He is. I mean, it's hard to get in for that. It is. But his breath hold is, I would say, legends have been told. I'm surprised he hasn't transitioned into spear fishing yet with like that breath hold he's got.

I don't think he wants to be a disheartedly. in that field. I mean, he probably could go right to the top day one. Yeah, or the bot, like to the bottoms, technically, as low as he wants to go, just with that breath hold. That pin one's people ask me all the time, though, about, well, how does Dully hit those shots? How does he hold it so still? And I, I can't do it justice unless you've seen it. Like, it's not, it's not that. It's that everything behind that movement is happening correctly. I feel like you get to the point where you actually don't care enough to where honestly I don't care if I miss

you know I'm like I'm gonna I'm gonna be way more critical on myself if I know I make a shitty shot right now like if I make a shitty shot I'm gonna and by a shitty shot you're talking about mechanics yeah mechanically not result of the actual yeah mechanically

if I make a shot where I know I didn't execute a protocol I'll probably wake up thinking about that and I would kind of let that fester on me versus if I made a good shot and it missed, it's like, okay, that's sometimes where the cards fall, you know? But I'm like good with it because I did,

I exercise the protocol that I have to do to be at my best the highest majority of the time. You know what I mean? I think one of the things that is a separator between firearm mechanics and archery is like with, and I saw this a little bit when I compete. because I did have magnification on my scope, you know, when I shot, like, spots. Which is amazing that you guys could jam that into the peep.

Well, it's in the front site. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, be on the front site. Maybe I was calling the front side the peep. You don't know. Yeah, I don't know what you're calling anything. But, like, the most power I ever shot was an eight power in my front scope.

But on a rifle, obviously, you know, you have one that's 18, 20. Yeah, well, I've never seen that one. That's what I have on my rifles is a five to 30 variable. But you just, you really, everything you're doing incorrectly is magnified visually right now to where you're seeing it. Whereas with archery, when people wonder about their long range accuracy, because you're not looking through a magnifying glass, you almost have to realize that your mistakes like you. said are kind of a fan to where the further you're going, the more those mistakes will become apparent and become magnified, the further out you're going. And at that point, the nuances of technique, you know, are just, that's one of the things that's really hard to coach when people

are just asking me help, like shoot me a text, you know, saying this or that. There's certainly certain things where I know these are going to be common things. that would cause that type of miss. But sometimes it's so minor. You know, it's so minor. And the mistake I will see people make on the rifle side of the house, and maybe you see this on the archery side of the house, is that they'll want to work on those mistakes at extreme distance

as opposed to working on them close up. So they'll want to rain bomb after bomb after bomb, after bomb, and they'll ignore what they should do to shoot at 10 or 20 yards and really just hammering those mechanics. Yeah. I'm a I'm I'm everybody wants to ring steel at a at a mile like that's so they're just like aiming for that like you can barely hit the side of a fucking barn at a hundred yards you know if you really want to hit that target let's bring it let's try fire yeah a couple days and just work on your mechanics and that's how they would actually get there faster I tell people that a lot my best years competing were years where I didn't have the time because my travel schedule was so just I mean it was constant that my only down days were pretty much days between landing from the previous tournament, having two or three days at home to, like, be at work, and then picking up the bow case, which I had never even unpacked, and just having my backpack

with the clean clothes I needed, and I'm like off. But all I would do during those two or three days of downtime would just, I would always have my release in a string and just, I would be on the phone talking to customers and just executing shots just like going through the motions of just you know the most basic principles but I feel like I was at my sharpest when when I really wasn't worried about like I don't know I feel like there's such a valuable thing to not like cracking yourself image by having bad practice days at long distance and long distance is a magnifier of not only your technique, but also a massive magnifier of your knowledge of your equipment.

Because as soon as you bring, you know, mother nature into this whole realm, then now you have to be a mathematician. You have to be in full understanding of the ballistics of whatever, you know, whatever type of projectile you're putting through the air and then how every single one of those conditions are going to affect it at every single distance you know and angle yeah and then factor in angles it's really easy to have a terrible practice day in archery at a long distance i shouldn't say terrible but frustrating yeah if i'm going to practice long distance anymore at archery like i practice my longer distances first 40 minutes a daylight last 40 minutes when the conditions are the most in

my favor to where I can actually have a very good gauge of my technique without having outside variables that in some way or another are going to factor into a self-image to where it'll create a doubt and then all of a sudden I'll be like man maybe I can't shoot this release as good as I can shoot that one or I swear this arrow doesn't group is better at one, and then you change. And now you spend in two or three days, you know, if you're 14 days out from a hunt, you're going to spend two or three days trying this other arrow or this other broadhead just because, I don't know, maybe that one will shoot. And then now you've lost three days.

There's nothing better than going into a hunt though with just low confidence in yourself and in your gear. As you're pulling back and your head, you're just like, maybe, point. And you've had some of the worst. Like, I don't know what... I just hand you my bow now. I'm like Dudley here. Because I don't know how many screws have come off.

Is there like a paint shaker at TSA here in Callisbell? I mean, come on. The last Alberta trip we did, the peep flew out. Yeah. And the one, let's see. God, there was one where the tongue of the rest was like loose. And then one of the main screws. I've had, I don't know.

I don't know what's going on, but I just hand you my bow. Now I'm like, can you just double check to make sure this is working? Well, part of it was, part of it was that truck you're rolling around in with... The Black Ops? No, the 37s. Oh, yeah. Jordan's, 37s, the wheels haven't been balanced or rotated in that thing in like five years. That didn't help.

That shook your teeth out. The vibration involved in those rides. I mean, I will say as the faster he went, they decreased, but some of those roads don't allow for it. Yeah, you're sitting there just getting a chiropractic adjustment. Like, I don't know. Yeah. Well, I've had some experiences where I just want to basically tomahawk my bow at the animal as opposed to. I have no faith in pulling it back.

Well, this next question actually feeds in. And this is, the question is, I recently purchased Silverback Plus, which is a tension-activated release. And he said, I love it under 40 yards, but beyond that, I'm having problems with my anchor point and my shots breaking. It seems like it's just taking way longer to break. Can you talk, can you and Andy talk about this? And if he's had the same experience. I think I already know what you're going to say on this. It feeds into what we just talked about. So like I said about what I've learned from archery from you is as part of that sequence of building my shot from the ground up, if it's 100 yards or 10 yards, it should break in about the same amount of time. Because what you're

doing past 40, let me tell you, because I'm a master at this if I don't pay attention, what you're doing is you're holding your breath. And as you think you're pulling back, what's happening is if you watch the arrowhead, it's creeping forward. So you're not actually, and I've been there because I felt it myself. And your shoulder is just like a little bit pack and pack. I've videoed before too. Or, you know, you put, you take your phone and you just video someone's arrow as it's sitting on that rest. And instead of it continually pulling back, you know, as they're supposed to be building tension, you're actually collapsing because you're just over-aiming.

But they will swear to you that they're pulling. They feel like they're pulling the bow and half, but the arrow's just like going. It's just the whole system's just collapsing. You're executing the Hafer method. So you're actually packing your shoulder. And I'm telling you, I know exactly what you're talking about. It, I once the, so I love the silverback.

First time I ever went hunting with you as a silver bag. I'd say 80% of the shots I take with a bow or with the silverback. I like the knock to it to hunt because I can positively secure it to the D-ring. But I utilize the same back tension. I do know some people. I've asked you about this. So I see them physically just firing it as a thumb release, which I mean, that is what it has. But I'll wrap my thumb and pull through it.

But yeah, it's that, you know, the farther out, it's, again, the float, you're like, oh, shit, not yet, not yet, not yet. And then you're not breathing. so your visual acuity is going down, your tactile sensation is going down, you feel like you're pulling. And then if you're like me, what I just do,

just close your eyes a little bit and in your head just say, fuck it and rip it as hard as you can and see where it goes. Yeah, I remember the first time we worked together. Yeah, at your house. Yeah, you came over following the CrossFit games.

And I remember, like, really quick, we got, well, we were trying to just get the sight tape for your bow, and we got, you know, we got dialed, you know, you're shooting really good at 20, you shot really good at 60, and then I put a sight tape on there, and I shot a few at 100, and then I just said, okay, just, you know, do this same exact thing, and I just said, you know, I want your cadence the same.

And because you had literally never shot 100 yards with a bow, you were only doing technique. And you, honestly, you didn't even know where the arrows were going to go, like those first ones. I didn't even know where to aim on that elk target. I'm like, oh, okay, cool, hit the elk. Yeah, I'm like just, you know, just aim right at that other lighted knock. And so you were shooting, and I remember that first night, I was just, I was thinking, damn,

this is like, Andy's going to be beating my ass in practice. And I thought, well, I mean, it goes hand in hand with, like, what you did before, you know, because you were, you were so systematic with the shot process. that at that time, because you didn't have expectation, you were only following protocol. And I feel like you shot better. And then once you went home... Oh, I started overthinking it.

Yeah, you trained by yourself for a while. And then when we met up again, that next time was, I think in Alberta, and we were kind of practicing. And I just, I remember telling you it was this same subject. I'm like, hey, dude, you know, you shot so awesome before because you were not letting the distance or what you were seeing in your sight picture change what you were doing at the line or behind the line. So this past week, I actually put a video out as extra credit to this year's school

of knock that was called trusting your float. And it was more or less just an exercise of drawing your bow back at a bigger bull's eye, drawing your bow back and not having your finger on the trigger at all. And just for 10 seconds, just doing your best to aim within the center or just allowing your natural float happen, but mentally kind of record what that pin was looking like on that target. And then what I did was I had a big target next to me where I took a Sharpie marker and I drew like on a bigger target.

this is more or less how my pin float looked. Oh, yeah, figure eight, maybe on its side. Yeah, I kind of went like left and right for quite a bit. But obviously 10 seconds is long for me personally to be in a, like where my finger would be acquired to a trigger. And I'm still like, in my appointment, I would be engaging on the trigger. 10 seconds of engagement would be a long time. So by then I'm kind of oxygen depleted. Yeah.

So like towards the end. of that I babbled down, but I came back up, you know, and then I did it again. And I, same thing, I had a lot of kind of horizontal, which I'm cool with. And then I kind of went up and down and back up one more time towards the end. But what I showed people by drawing what that natural subconscious movement was, what you see is the amount of times your lines are intersecting within the inner third of that scoring, I mean, it is, it's like 60 to 70% more time you're within the 30% center versus those few times where you're outside, where you're, you know, in my opinion, I feel like the subconscious is wanting confirmation of the center of that spot.

And it, it, it, your subconscious lets that movement happen so it can still see what's back there. And so the more I embrace that and just if I'm making a longer shot or if if a target is close but moving, like if it's a walking deer or a walking elk, you know, granted, I have a certain range where I'm not, I'm going to be like, I'm not going to shoot a walking deer at, you know, 35 yards or whatever. But if it's close and I know I've got a one second down hit where, you know, this isn't going to be nine inches where I'm having to hold off. You know, I'll actually tell myself over-commit to this shot. You know, even if on a longer shot, it would be the same thing. I'm almost trying to not over-ame. I'm trying to over-pull. I'm trying to, you know, have over-the-am

of tension activation that I would need. In the wind, it's the same thing. It's like I give it a little bit more gas because I don't want to be there long enough to where I'm seeing all the extra movement. If I feel like all of my protocols have been put in place of my shot routine, at that point when my pins on the target, I know there's going to be some movement. I'm kind of pushing on the gas pedal a little bit more at those longer distances, then I'll probably aim longer at the shorter distances because I also know if I am in there too long, I also can make more of a mistake and miss less at 20 than doing that same thing at 80 or 100. I haven't found any benefit to holding for longer.

And I will say that I think archery precision shooting is harder than rifle. the biggest reason is you're under tension when you're with a bow. I mean, just go, I mean, obviously knock an arrow and don't shoot it through your buddy's door, Jim Miller, but pull back and just see how long you can hold that thing maximal

before you have to let it down. You're going to do better at holding your side stable at the beginning first few seconds of that. You know, I mean, nobody can hold that under tension for an incredibly long period of time. At a rifle, you're laying on the ground. Yeah. So it's, I mean, I'm not a fan of being, you know, at full draw for a long period of time.

Actually, when I have been, and I'm talking 30 seconds or more, I'll actually intentionally not look through the sights because I don't want to see that movement. I'll wait until a shot, but I'll be at full draw, but I'm kind of looking just past it. I just want to sit there because if I start to see it in my head, I'm like, oh shit, I'm getting tired. Are you getting tired? You're a little bitch. Hold it still. Why can't you hold it still? And it's like, it's semi-truck could walk out and I'm going to miss it.

But the tension is no joke. It would be so awesome to have like, if your eyes could record what you're seeing and then to do a director's cut. People would be like, how did you hit that? Yeah, that would be so awesome. Yeah, that would be really fun. I do the same thing because there's times with archery because you're having to pull back and because. And wait. Yeah.

And because you're dealing with a target that movement is like the, the. biggest thing they see instantly, sometimes you have to pull back long before you know your shot window or your shot opportunities there and you're having to wait for that. And yeah, normally I draw back and I'm, you know, I'm secure with my anchor position, but I'm kind of just watching until I can see that moment start to approach and then it's... As opposed to trying to hold it on a blade of grass. Yeah, then it's like peep acquisition, you know, front site, rear site, level the bow, acquire the target, yeah, and then get it done for sure. All right, let's see here.

Go to the next question, Nick S. Tatum. Andy, all about Montana and why I decided to settle down there. I feel like you've answered this. I have. Better than California. Oh, and best spots to visit? I would say whitefish Missoula Bozeman would be your, and not necessarily in that order, but those are the most recognizable. Big Sky is cool.

Yeah, it's Bozeman, just south of Bozeman. Okay. And then how do you like your PSC? I like it. It's the holdoff is much different than the Hoyt I was shooting the year before. It was startling to me. The letoff? The letoff.

I mean, I use the holdoff. I use the professional terms as an expert in Bowieology. Yeah. It's different. How much holdoff does your bow have? Well, I pull, my poundage is 135 for the initial pull, and I only wanted a 1% holdoff. So I'm holding 134 just to really sculpt the delts.

But it's just different. I mean, every bow that I've shot has felt different. That one, and I don't know if this is a good or a bad thing, but it feels more dead in the hand when it goes off. Yeah. That was the biggest. It was quieter, and it was just kind of like thunk, and it was and the draw the actual draw itself yeah i'm not an ex-fuck i mean i know what cams are

i don't know how they work yeah you know but it felt substantially different and i like it a lot yeah yeah the for archery you really have to like pull something back and let an arrow go to to to understand a difference between them obviously you can pick them up and be like oh this carbon one's light oh this aluminum one's heavier um or this one's like you know more compact this one's bigger, but you kind of need to pull it back at the poundage that you're shooting and also like have them adjust it to a draw length that you're shooting. And then did you see the video of Brian Cowan shooting about? Yeah. Did you see how far off his nose that peep was? Oh yeah. It, uh, I might, I don't know. Actually, I think I did highlight him on tactical asshole.

Oh, you did. Yeah, Sharon's like, oh my God, Andy is roasting this guy. She's like, She'll see what he's calling him. And then I looked over and I'm like, oh, that's Brian. I'm like, he must have sent Andy a video of himself shooting. He posted that on his Instagram. Actually, all I wanted to see was that scarf. Just wrap around the string, just a little bit. Dude, that could be seriously brutal.

Catastrophic. Yeah, I've seen some horrid, like, that's one thing. A compound bow at like a frat party is not. cool you know it it's like it's not a lot different than taking like a bear trap you know i've been at i've been at hunting camp many times where you know people are you know getting halfway through the bourbon bottle and then someone just like hey man let me check out your bow yeah i can set that you know oh it's got awesome hold off let me feel this oh dude that's nothing and then i i mean i've i've seen some terrible accidents

Yeah, be safe people Yeah, don't do that Safety first Third Then teamwork According to Dusty Stick the trick Stick the shot

Safety third Okay Has Andy tried to make you The Little Spoon We've never been in a survival situation It's not physically possible I know

I'm always gonna be The Little Spoon Yep It happened last night People like Holy shit you're tall Like I told you people He's a giant

Nobody believes me How tall you are And then my response is always the same. Yeah, imagine walking behind him in the forest, assholes. Well, dude, you have a, like, you have dead space all the time. Yeah. I mean, it's, I think it's a blessing. People underestimate how fast you move in the woods.

It's awesome. I don't know. I've seen a few people that have, that have, every now and then I've been behind someone where I'm like, how am I not keeping up? Like, I can't stretch my legs any. faster. You're a maximum gate distance? Yeah, maximum gate, like, without sacrificing audible. And, yeah, there's been a few times where I'm like, okay, this is what it feels like being

behind me, according to everyone else, is like, damn, dude, I can't keep up. Especially if you're in a felt onesie with rubber boots. I'm telling you right now, after, I mean, Caleb had our buddy Caleb, Copeland Creative, you know, if you need video work, awesome, awesome guys. But Caleb had a hellacious schedule. I mean, we started in Utah at the same time, you know, mid-August. And then by the time we were back in Montana for my, like, I elk-hunted a few times in Montana because the rut was really weird this year.

I heard that it was late. I got zero days of elk hunting, so I don't know. Yeah. I mean, I think, I don't know if I killed on like 15th or 16th day, but I mean, it was late. We worked for it. We worked for it. But there was also a lot of hunts in between that. But, man, it came down to the wire because I'm trying to think why, but something, oh, I had to go to Colorado for a mule deer hunt.

And so I was hunting Montana. I knew it was a day to get home, half a day to pack. I would prefer to have at least two days home so I can like check in with the family. But it was like coming down to the wire. And I mean, the closer I got to the wire, the harder I was pushing and pushing. And dude, Caleb was destroyed. I can see that. I've hunted with Caleb quite a few times.

Now I could see him being a little fatigued. Yeah, because I was hitting a whole new gear. I was hitting that gear of like, I don't care anymore. Yeah. And actually when I watched back, I proved this hunt yesterday. And when I walked back on the night before my kill, I kind of like gave just like a little, you know, tonight, today was an awesome day, put on a ton of miles type talk, you know, which Caleb's always like, you know, tell everyone what happened today. And, you know, in my mind, I'm going like. Nothing, asshole.

Yeah, I'm like, what the hell, dude? I mean, freaking 16 miles, bro, haven't heard shit. Like, you know, freaking two more miles back to the truck. Like, why am I going to, you know? But obviously he knows at some point. The storytelling aspect. Yeah, the storytelling aspect. But, like, after I say it and I'm, like, walking off technically into the sunset,

like, I can tell by my walk that, like, that cyst in my knee and that freaking, What the hell is that thing in your foot? I got that deal in my foot where you get that cramp. Your arch, it feels like someone's hit the heel of your foot with a ball ping hammer. It's called, God, everyone else. Sissy foot? Yeah, yeah, it's called Sissyfoot. I forget what it's called, but.

It sounds atrocious. It was terrible. And then, oh, you were never with, so you never. ever felt that I got this cyst in the back of my knee from I was laying I was I had done a stock and I had to lay back onto my legs from I was like underneath you I was in a kneeling position and I and this Muley like got up and repositioned and laid down to where you can see me so I was on a slope and I had to lay back so I ended up developing this big cyst in the back my knee that dude it was like it was when people touched it like weirded them out i would have

just found another muley it well well hey that was the first week of september when when that happened and then my heel happened like mid-september and you could tell when i was walking away in that like second to last scene like i was i wasn't limping but you could tell it wasn't me just striding along like daddy long legs we used to call it having your fun meter pegged yeah my fun meter was pegged yeah you've had enough for the day yeah and and i think that same day we were we were getting after it after this elk and this sucker like we found him at sunlight like right before sunlight and he was bugling and it was like one of those deals where you would swear why can i not see this thing

like he was right there, but you could tell he was just going away from you because then you'd hear it again, it'd be a little further, so you'd just pick up the pace, and you'd get in there, and then you'd kind of stop and not want to bump him, and then he'd be like, he's right here.

And then also the next bugle, he'd be like, you know, up there a little ways, so you'd have to, you know, freaking get after it again, and we did that for freaking four hours, like on a... Somebody who looks a lot like you once told me, Don't ever try to keep up with elk on the hoof.

I tried. I tried for like 15 days. And yeah. And then we got to the point where these two bulls were just inside of this little timber piece. And the bull we had followed the whole morning got to this other bull that had cows in there. And there was a hot cow in there. And they were just raising hell. And they were just inside this thick-ass stuff to where you couldn't see them.

Sometimes you could see legs. but like we couldn't go in any closer because I couldn't get a shot but I'm like at some point they're going to come out and like we'll have a shot so we just laid down and I remember like turning around and Caleb is just out dude like full blown out and and these elk are screaming they're like screaming and he is just gone he is gone but yeah that was um I don't know I I I live for that though. I think that stuff right there is... I don't know. Awesome. It's hard to describe what that feels like, though, unless you've been in that close of proximity and experience that. Well, what people don't realize is this goes back to so many things that you and I talk about or Rogan talks about

or Jocko talks about. The things where it's hard are like, I don't know if that's just in people. I would just, I don't know why it's not in everybody, but it's like, I just remember that more. I like love it more. And I mean, it's always, every time people ask you or I to tell a hunting story, we don't tell. It's not an awesome one. Yeah, it's not like, oh, hey, yeah, we went, you know, hog hunting just like went 100 yards. And there was four of them and Annie and I laid down, you know, four out of the five or whatever. it's always like, okay, this one time in France.

This one time, this really sucked. Yeah. And I don't know. I think if people looked for that in a hunt, I feel like, I don't know, I feel like they would be more addicted to it too. Really, in anything. I don't know if you even need to look for it in a hunt. I think you'll find that naturally if you try bow hunting. Oh, yeah.

that audio is up there's like an elk screaming yeah he's he's gone his his field of fucks is just barren yeah he's out of it he is freaking totally out of it he was with me and filmed the uh black rival hunt when i had the Utah bowl that came in he was hilarious he right after he turned off the camera he's like I'm gonna need a minute that was a lot for me it was awesome yeah I I freaking love that guy. It's hard to find someone that you really love having with you in the times of highs and lows. And we talk about that a lot as bow hunters or, you know, obviously it seems like all of you guys that were team guys, especially, like, you know, other team guys, but the team guys you've been with to where you went something that, like, got sketchy. It's like, that's just a solidifier.

It's like, you know, that's like you always have these two parts of epoxy that, you know, they're the same. And, you know, they're cool. But it's like when you like mix them together into. And hardens. Yeah. And something hard happens. Yep. Then it's like, it's real.

All right. So obviously I can't be the little spoon. Andy is to answer that question. Let's see. We got, who owns a skydye? helmet because that's what I wore in our picture. I do, but it was a gift from you. It was. I have one too, but I didn't bring it.

Let's see here. Did you see any that you liked? Did you see any? I just briefly looked through it. I was going to let you pick and choose as you saw fit. Oh, yeah. Weirdest stories are what you've personally experienced yourself in the wilderness. What was one of the most unknown for you, like, where you thought, the first bear hunt that I went on with you, which I don't know how much we're going to talk about that. But it was a combination between getting a little Western and very Vietnamese areas.

Really? Yeah. And well, now looking back, that was my first time ever hunting with a bow, first time ever hunting with you. And I remember we kind of, we were, had we just had an elk bugle? No, we were going to a place where we thought there were going to be some elk. And you were walking in front and you heard something. And it was those three bears just dick. Still to this day, I've never seen that in my life.

Three bears. Three, three boars just like. Dicking off. Having a circle jerk. Yeah. In the middle of like this grass patch in the middle of, in the middle of like. Five feet off of a road. I mean, it was just straight.

Well, like an ATV path. Yeah, it was like an ATV path. And I remember you were like, okay, you knocked an arrow and you were going to shoot one. And then you're like, what am I doing? I don't need to shoot any more, Black Bear. He's like, get up here. Do you want to shoot one? And so I knocked an arrow and basically just as I drew back, that thing bolted.

I took a shot at it. And I remember you saying, hey, knock another arrow. He's coming back. And I don't, what do you call it? Is it starting? Yeah. So it was coming back and I didn't know what the distance was. I'm like, I got a 20-yard pin.

That looks like about 20. Doink, shoot it. And then everything that happened after that. Yeah. So the first, they were like playing around. and the bear, like one of the bears was starting, I said the big one's coming out to the left. And I think he kind of just saw something or heard something and started to run. And you took like, kind of like, I don't know, maybe back in the old days, like he was on the move,

legit, on the move, but you just, I don't know if you knew you actually can let a bow down. And so you're just like, I did. I'm just going to be the way I wanted to. Yeah. Like, I'm just going to rip a shot. So you shot and I thought like, okay, well, this is over. like everybody knows we're here now. And then...

I'm going to say 15 seconds later. I think because he was so surprised, I seen him stop. And I seen him like turn around and do that thing where they kind of sway their head. Like, what was that? And I go, I'm right over Andy's shoulder, like, whispering in his ear. I'm like, reload. He doesn't know what that is. And he's curious.

And then he kind of came back, like, stodding. Because I think he kind of felt like I just ran out of here like a little bitch and I need to I need to like come back and be like I ain't scared I ain't scared so he came back and I just told Danny I'm like pump that sucker right right in the chest and so my first ever actual archery shot on an animal was probably

16 yards dead on on a black bear straight in a big old chest and it's a big bear because that thing's hanging at the house right now I forgot how big it was and yeah he shot it like kind of coming in, quartering two, so it went through. It was like one lung liver. It was lethal for sure. And it was a touch low. My aiming point was a little bit low. But lethal. It was just an awesome shot. And then he freaking hauled out of there. And there's a ton of blood. Like an obscene amount of blood.

Yeah. From like from, for whatever reason, I was, I was thinking, you know, there's so much K. like we can just track this thing we're good and he just went into this underbrush you know this like underbrush willow stuff to where it was it was just so thick and gnarly and Jordan was not having it yeah Jordan was not having him because he was like looking at it as there's three bears here one's injured I can't move more than one foot inside of this stuff we're crawling through I don't know where the other bears went. He knows like Andy's like, Andy's right behind me just kind of like, oh, this is cool. I didn't know.

Yeah, mind you, I'm on my first ever bear experience ever. Now looking back, it's like, oh, I had no idea how bad that could have gone. I was just like, you were going into the bush. I'm like, I guess we go into the bush now. I didn't know what was going on. Jordan's like ghost white. Like, if not green, just he was not having it. Yeah, he did not want to have any of that.

And then when we got up to the, well, I came out of this thick stuff and I saw blood going up this big tree. And I'm talking like, if that phone you had wouldn't have crashed, that blood was insane. But there was. 70, 80 feet up a tree. Yeah, corkscrewing just tons of blood. And as soon as I, like, I was on my hands and knees, I looked up and saw the blood going up the tree. And then as I turned and was looking as high as I could look, in my mind, I'm like, this sucker is, because I could see blood on the ground, like, where my hands were. And I was just in visualizing this thing being on a limb, like with all of his teeth showing, just like ready to jump straight down on top of me.

And I'm so dead. And I'm looking up and I'm like, this is going to be bad. This is going to be bad. This is going to be bad. and he's nowhere to be found in the tree and I'm sitting there trying to figure that out and I look on the other side of the tree and there's just this imprint in the ground

like where he had gone... Five to six inches deep, I would say. Yeah, he had tried to go up this tree and then just freaking cannonballed from 30 yards up or whatever out of this thing. If it was, yeah, it was 30 if it was one. Boom, just freaking cratered the ground

and then I could see where he had crawled off. So I kind of just kept crawling And then all of a sudden this freaking huge bear stands up And another huge bear stands up And they freaking end up Running off And everyone's kind of like Holy crap what's happening

And then those other two bears That already found Andes and were eating it They were eating their little buddy They were playing with like 20 minutes before The biggest buddy truthfully The biggest buddy And so yeah It was one of those

were then as I'm like, okay, well, you know, we were quite a ways back, too. We were pretty deep. Four miles or maybe something. So it's like, okay, we're going to skin this out. We're going to have to quarter it. We're going to have to, like, get the quarters far enough away from here to where hopefully these bears just occupy themselves on the seal while we can, like, get trip one out and then get trip two out.

and meanwhile Jordan's sitting there with the with his like Remington 870 Chrome 870 Express just ghost white like on a freaking swivel while I'm mumbling I don't like bears I don't like bears I don't like bears I hate bears I hate bears and then Andy's just kind of sitting there like oh okay this is this is crazy and you know

I had an exposure point of one I'm just like this is bear hunting I guess they're usually eating each other when you find them they stand up, they run off. I was like, okay. And what was cool is this was a, it was actually a spot and stock only bear unit. Because in the springtime, there's like bear bait areas. But in the fall, there's, if those allocations are all used, you can have a tag where in this unit. It's like normally within, you know, certain crown land and it can only be spot and stock.

It can't be on bait. So then the next day, the next morning, we go and we're like two miles from there, I would guess. And we're in the edge of this timber, there's an elk bugling, and we're hunting elk. But Andy has another bear tag. And meanwhile, Jordan was saying, I'm over elk. Or I'm over bears. Like, can we just, let's just focus on elk. Let's just focus on elk.

you know, and he was still kind of worked up from the day before. So we go after elk, it's daylight. There's one bugling, and I kind of thought like, all right, this is going to work out. Annie and I are going to get inside of the, you know, quote unquote crown land, which is like public land. The bulls bugling in there. And because it was still like right at first light, a lot of the elk are out in these ag fields. So we decided to give Jordan an elk decoy and put him out in. out in the wide open wheat field with this cow elk decoy and we're like, you go out there and call and Andy and I are just going to, as this elk is talking, we're going to intercept the elk coming to you.

Because we're right on the fringe. We had a beautiful line of sight for shooting anything that would have come out of that bush. Yeah, it was perfect. And so Andy and I get all set up. and we and Jordan's hiding behind this you know decoy and I give him the thumbs up like okay start calling and like he starts calling and just from him cow calling like we're kind of looking at Jordan and then all sudden on both sides of Jordan like but it's kind of like what Annie was telling that story at the beginning where the the sniper instructors are like looking one direction he was behind this decoy

and the both of these bears were very close to him but split apart but in a in an exact position to where that decoy was not allowing him to see him so as soon as he called both of them stood up on their back legs and they're taller than me just freaking looking around and here's like this lunch just right there and and like and he can just keep calling and he's looking at us like giving us a thumbs up and we're looking thinking like he doesn't know all those bears are there and there's two bears so then you know it kind of went on long enough to where the bears realize okay something's not right here so they actually went to evacuate this this field and get into the timber and then andy and I were right there and I'm like there's your second one bro freaking pump that sucker

and yeah I made a freaking picture perfect shot on that one one. That was... Yeah, that guy died like five yards down the hill. Yeah. So that was a cool trip. That was the first trip. Yep. That was awesome. Let's say. Oh, this is a good one. M. Rock 316 saying favorite song or band to get fired up to before a fight, lift, or a shoot.

Jesus. There's a lot of different activities. Fight, lift, or shoot. It's just a favorite pump-up music. I mean, I feel like ride the lightning. Metallica is, ride the lightning is good. Or whom the belt holes, both like legit. Or tool, Metallica or tool, I would say. Yeah, you can do really good with either of those.

Correct. Post-hunt, like post-hunt, fireball. Vitamin F? Yeah, vitamin Fireball. That would definitely be some Bob Seeger for me. little night moves, kick it off? Is that what you play when you skin and quarter? Because you threw something on my Montana Bowl, the 9-11 bowl.

I couldn't remember what it was though. Yeah, Bob Seeger, that was it. That was it. Yep. There's a playlist for every activity. Yeah, but I think those are two definite go-toes right there. I don't have one for the post-hunt. I'll have to think about that.

I need to implement that in my routine. Yeah, because that should be just a, that should be like today was a good day. I'll have to think about that. I want to touch on this, though, since... Is this going to be a swapcast? Sure. If we're going to do a swapcast, then we'll... We need to touch on this a little bit.

So on the way here, we stopped by... We stopped by one of Andy's friends' houses, and... What was her name? Jane. Jane was in there, just kind of chilling. And I didn't know it, but evidently Jane is, like, fairly new to Jiu-Jitsu. Yes. fair to say so like oh fuck where's this going so we're sitting on the we're sitting there and i'm like

asking her you know to like how's it going with jiu jitsu and stuff and and she's just like good and and she goes yeah andy gave me some advice and i was just like oh oh great here we go like this is going to be freaking good and she goes yeah like because on certain nights she goes i'm normally really nice and just kind of say like hey do you want to partner up to like roll tonight and she goes, Andy told me like, no, I need some like lead in lines. Like lead in lines. So she said like he had me write him down in my notebook. And I go and she goes, I was really surprised because I used this one on this kid and he

was like really aggressive out of the gate. And I go, well, what did you say to him? So this must be one of the ones you gave her. Yeah. So Jane is like one of the sweetest women on the face of the planet. She is my coach's wife's sister. So she's tied into the family. She's been approximate to the gym forever and just started.

So nice. And like, and I've rolled with her a bunch. And obviously it was all a joke. But she's a writer. And I was like, hey, let me help you out. I'm going to write down for you five things that you could say at the beginning of an open mat because she would always say exactly like you described it. Hey, hope you're having a good day.

Hey, do you want to roll? So number one was, hey, fuckface, you want to fight? So that's what she led with. That's what she led with and then got mauled by the person that she said it to, which is exactly what I was going for. So, yeah. Better opening lines. Talk shit at the beginning.

And then when they mall you, continue to talk shit. So that's my theory, though, at least. I want to know what, do you remember the other ones? Oh, man. One of them was like, I think your face is stupid. We should fight. They were all ridiculous. there was nothing even remotely professional or serious about any of them. But that first time that I wrote

them down for her, I made or say at least a couple of them to people. And their responses were all just like, what did you say to me? You'd be like, sharing opening with that, it'd be so, it's the best. You'd be like, wait, what? The less they expect it, the better, obviously. Yeah, for sure. All right. So we've got, how about what's kept Andy from archery for this last year? I feel like a lot of people know this, it's worth just throwing it out there. Yeah, a lot of people hit me up. Like, why weren't we hunting together or why couldn't I hunt?

And, well, for one, just look back at 2020. There's a lot of things that prevented even just being able to travel around. But about four weeks before archery season, a block away I was doing jujitsu, was actually rolling with my coach. And not to get into the nuts and bolts of jujitsu, but he was able to get a grip on my left arm. I was on top facing down. He was on the bottom facing up. but with this grip, he was going to be able to basically push me over and we were going to reverse that.

I was going to be on the bottom. He was going to be on top. It's a very powerful grip in the joint that it isolated or isolated was my elbow. And I never felt like my arm was at risk. And Travis would never have any malicious intent or desire to hurt somebody. He's a phenomenal coach. And I was actually going to roll. I was rolling through it, which is what you can do. I was basically getting ahead of what he was going to do.

Yeah. I never felt pressure on my arm, and as we went over, it went... You were trying to manipulate to avoid the pressure before it really got there. I was going to try to get to where we were going to end up being first so I could get into a more optimal with defensive position. He had what's called a Camora grip. You knew it was happening. Correct.

So you were going to try to take the lesser of two evils. But what I probably did was... So he was elevating my arm behind me, which is exactly what he should be doing. So I started the forward wall to release that, and I probably waited just to little bit too much. And as we were going, there was a very loud audible pop. And in the moment, it didn't hurt that much. I actually rolled for like another 35 minutes. I definitely felt it and we stopped. And he was like, dude, are you okay? It was loud. Like, people heard it rolling around us. And it felt fine. And I kept rolling. It was, it felt a little bit

weird when I would get my arm to full extension. Yeah. Kind of important for archery, the ability to extend your arm. And then it would get, it would start hurting when I would feel my elbow being the compressed, that forced compression. Yeah. What was it at? It was deep inside of the joint. So it's, in essence, what it was was a hyper extension. And probably with a little bit of tendon damage.

An hour after I was done rolling, when it started- Well, I was starting to cool off. Yeah. And then I was, I mean, I was in a sling for a good period of time. I was off the mats for a couple of weeks. And then when I got back on, I was just with one arm. So it prevented me hunting, specifically archery, was I couldn't hold my bow.

I couldn't maintain my arm in a straight direction. My elbow would have collapsed and I would have eaten that carbon fiber before I could have gotten the cam to rotate. So I- Chaco dealt with that too. The first time I gave him lessons, he had hyper-extended his elbow. And he was- You're talking six to eight weeks of really limited mobility.

And then my strength was low. And I do not agree with being unethical when it comes to hunting. So I can't even practice now for almost a month and a half. before archery season. Yeah. So I sheled it. I didn't want to go out there and be unprepared.

Well, plus, like, two of the hunts that we always do together were both. Scrapped. We're both scrapped. So, I mean, a lot of times if you see, if you see, like, episodes, a lot of times one hunt will kind of translate

into multiple episodes. Oh, yeah. Because, like, if, you know, and so there was a few times there were, yeah, just no one was traveling. We were on. Or when you were in my, Montana. I mean, I mean, I drew a bull unit that was that was like, I don't know, on the far other side of the state than when we hunted together over here, too.

2020 was a rough personal year for me. And I didn't even remember to put in my tags. Yeah. I didn't even put in a 920. I literally just went to Cabellas and got an over-the-counter. Yeah. So it was kind of a shit show of the year in a variety of reasons. So you guys were down at the tack. I wasn't able to go because I had the chance to be at my kids. So there's a lot of things, none of them intentional, but it sucked because almost right after, like when I heard the pop, before I actually ended up landing flat on my back, the thought went through my head of, am I going to be able to shoot my bow? I don't want that thought ever. Yeah. That's what scares me most. It's like, I have. And here's the thing, though, it's my fault. I could have tapped way.

I mean, because you can just verbally say, hey, tap. And again, nobody's trying to hurt anybody. But it's just, and I would have, but I never felt my elbow was at risk. I think it was just a weird angle. But it was loud, and it took a long time. I mean, I still, if I get to full arm extension, I can easily shoot a bolt. A bowl. I would shoot a bowl.

I can easily shoot my bow now, but I still feel a little bit of instability at full extension, which it shouldn't be anyway with a bow. And a little bit when I have people that force compression, it's, I mean, it's way better. I've been rolling for months now after it, but it's, it's lingered. It seems like a joint is so much worse than, you know, I was, planters fasciitis is what I had in my foot. Sissy foot. Yeah, sissy foot. And it, it was like, I was mad at how painful this freaking cramp in the middle of your arch that, like, affects your whole foot to where you cannot put weight on your foot.

It's ridiculous. And then on my knee, I mean, I'll show you pictures. It got, like, it got really weird to have, like, gross like that. Did you ever think about having it taken out? If they can drain it and it really helps. Did you drain it? Joe actually wanted to drain it. He's like, we can drain that.

And Peter Attia is like, let's not drain it here at camp. I'm going to go with the doctor's advice on that one. But yeah, because honestly, when I let Peter feel it, Peter was like, ooh. That's not good. When a doctor touches you, it makes that noise. Yeah, especially him because he's like he's an athlete too. So it's not like he's a doctor that's never had any type of injury. His threshold might be a little bit farther out there than most.

Yeah, his threshold's way out there, like beyond mine, if I'm honest. So, yeah, it was just one of those deals. but it was both of those were like, to me, they were related to something that was like a movement area. And those are just way harder to like power through than... Sometimes you can't. Like I could not have powered through the elbow. Yeah.

I mean, if you have like a calf cramp or like a torn, you know, I've had tears like in a major muscle group, they're aggravating but they're not like dehabilitating. Yeah. A joint or a movement area is debilitating. Yep. So, all right. So we've got next question, elaborate on pow surfing, please.

And there was a couple people asking us to give some snowboarding advice, even though we're not pro snowboarders. God, I would say hit up people like Mark Carter. Oh, for sure. Yeah, there's like a million people we could say. I'm in my fourth season of snowboarding. and Dudley is on his fourth day. I think I'm on like day seven.

Yeah. I mean, I don't know what advice. I know. I know the best advice is like rear edge. Because that was the one thing you told me. You're like, you can do a lot of things bad. What you don't ever want to do is catch your back edge with any type of speed. And I know that because.

And I did one time. Yeah, it'll almost kill you. You did that in Utah. I watched you. It was awesome. Yeah, it's a brain shaker. He's talking about going downhill. Me and Mark were in Jay Byers.

Who else was there? Sloan, did Sloanes ski, Trevor? Trevor was there. I don't know if Sloan was an awesome day. Were we at Brighton? I think so. But what we're talking about is, you know, you get the nose of the board pointed downhill, which is going to give you speed.

But one of the worst thing that's ever happened to me on a snowboard is to get my heel edge facing downhill, catch that rear edge. and you go standing back of your head, and it hurts every inch of your body. So that's, yeah, I mean, pow surfing, I love powder days. They're infrequent. I don't know. They were awesome that first year. They were. Because you were like, dude, you got to do this, you got to do this.

And I can't, I think I came out. And then. Yeah, it nukes when you were here the first time. Yeah. Sharon and I both came out. And you and your JP. Yeah. Denner. Nelson. Yeah. That's his Instagram name, J.P. Grant.

No. Your brother-in-law? Oh, Jason. JP is his... Jason DeNoe. Oh, JP to know is my brother-in-law, yeah. Okay, so he was the one that taught me. Yeah. He's the one who taught me, too. Which was, his technique was, it seems so basic. It almost seemed like a little, I don't know. For me, like having a person hold my hands and do this drill. I was like, this is he having you scoot down? Yeah, but man was that, that was like so pinnacle. You know, he pretty much had me, you know, I'm holding my phone, you know, parallel to me right now.

But he would have me going down the hill with my board, you know, pretty much horizontal to the hill. Toes facing down the hill. Toes facing down. And I would slide down and then he would say toes up. So I would dig my heel in and scrape. And then I would, he'd say toes down. I would go and I would realize if I put my toes down too far, I would grab edge. Footh.

Yeah, and you would go to your knees. And so he was just in front of me, just holding my hand just letting me learn edge. And then you flip that. Slide edge, slide edge, slide edge, down the whole hill. Just slide edge, like five yards at a time. And then he had me turn around to where then you're working the edge we talked about being the dangerous edge. It's only dangerous until you can't control it. If you have to be able to dig with the toes and you have to be able to dig, especially

if you're going to link those turns because that's how you can manage it. Yeah. And then honestly, learning those basics, then it was big S's. And I don't know. I think if anyone's trying to learn snowboarding, I would say find a good coach. For me, that was freaking awesome. Just saying, because I'm a big coach. coach dork he taught me too it would be worth and here's what i would say i was at the resort

a week ago and there was in the lift i'm not joking the chair in front of the group i was there with was a husband or a boyfriend i don't know trying to teach his significant other it was obvious it was her first time on the board and i'm not saying this person wouldn't necessarily have been a good coach but we saw her later down the lodge with a sling on her arm and basically barely able to walk like i guess you got ski uh ski patrolled off the mountain in one of those sleds. Dang. Maybe the guy is an amazing coach, but invest, it would be worth it to invest the time to get some one-on-one.

Because Jason did the exact same thing with me. Yeah, that was awesome. And then Linkin those turns, just learning how to, like, work that turn. And, you know, it was like, it was like baby steps technique, which I would have loved, like, another full day of that. But honestly, so we did the little sloth. slide, slide down the mountain once. We came back up.

Then he turned me around and I kind of did the slide slide. Then we came back up and he like barely taught me how to do turns. And then Andy's like, all right, follow, you know, follow me. We're just going to take this different lift. And then like. Black Islands, bitches? Yeah. Then like third run, we're at the top of the freaking mountain.

And I'm like, and you're like, dude, you got this. You have to know your student. I know I could push you. I was like, you're fine. Okay. Yeah, it was. It was good. But again, I mean, I'm nobody to give advice in snowboarding, but I would say on any new activity, you got to learn the foundations first.

It's not like, I mean, reach out to guys like Carter. I'm trying to think what Carter told me, because we set that board up at Brighton, right? And he adjusted my bindings a few times. He's messing with your stance width and then the angle of your toes. Yeah, that's just something that you're going to. to have to play with, you know, like where your feet should be naturally apart. Because at first, I think I was taking an archery stance because I think you were narrow. Because I was like comfortable being, to me, that was just a stance that like if someone said

stand here, I'm going to stand like I'm getting ready to shoot an archery target. Yeah, which is way too narrow for you on a start. Yeah. And so when I set up my board myself, I kind of went with that stance. And then Mark's like, Let's get your feet out a little bit more. Because when my feet were too narrow, I think when I was like going to turn, I was like lifting up the front of my board too because I was very centered.

Yeah, he would know better than me. Yeah, and then like he spread me out. And I think we shifted to where I wasn't like, I can't remember which way he put me forward or back. But yeah, having someone that understands snowboarding can, like, once you get your bindings in the position based on that board length, whoever originally said, like, I feel like it's, is it like the fastest learning curve?

When you compare it to skiing, what I have been told is that you can, let me see how does this work? For skiing, you can learn skiing faster. But it's harder to master? Correct. Your initial learning curve is faster, but then it becomes harder to master. Whereas snowboarding, your first couple days, I mean, if you're looking at starting snowboarding, your first couple days are going to hurt. Yep.

But once you can get past that, your learning curve accelerates and exceeds what you can do on skis. Yeah, the initial learning curve is, the initial learning curve is like steeper, but your ability to, to like master a plateau supposedly happens faster. But then, I don't know, even hearing that, because I skied competitively for a long time, and it's like, I don't know, you look at someone like, like Mark Carter, dude, the stuff that he does, it's like it's easy to say it's quicker to master, but is that mastering on a groom trail? Yeah, but for those people, that's what they're going to use it on anyway.

Like Mark is in a completely different stratosphere. Yeah, he's in a whole different universe. Yeah, the speed that he rides and the velocity with which he would hit jumps and the air that he would achieve with that, I'm not comfortable with any of those things, let alone in combination. I wonder if like when Mark kind of cruises with us, because you know he's just like there because he knows we can't go where he's going, have you ever tried to like jog with someone that's way slower than you? No, I don't run. Okay. Well, it's harder. It's like, yeah, it probably feels unnatural. Yeah, it's like it's almost, it's almost harder to run and your times are

worse running with someone that can't do a pace. It's almost harder to like hold yourself back than to like stride. Yeah, that makes sense. So I wondered if like Mark would make more technical mistakes like dinking around with just like small stuff than when he was moving at a pace for him that was so instinctual. I think he was just like riding his board backwards and doing goofy shit. Yeah, he was cooking hot dogs off the freaking front of his board. and like freaking having... Yeah. I mean...

He was probably just working on other, like, what would be considered ridiculously hard for us, just little skills. Like, I'm pretty sure, like, working on getting a nap in. Yeah. He,

I did see him fall, though, one time, but he was, you know, chewing a toothpick and I don't... Well, that's every second. Like, his back hit the ground and he was back up. Like, if I had fallen like that, it was taking me a while

to get my shit back in one sock, but it's... That's what's awesome about people that have done something enough. They understand, like, how to let their moment carry them into back to like on your feet again. Yeah, you can barely know that you went down.

Yeah, they utilize that momentum. Yeah. All right, well, let's, I'm gonna, well, this is a good question. And this is kind of more of a cleared hot question anyway. So, ooh, well, that's a good question. What are you doing? Oh. You look like you're getting ready to get up.

I mean, I'm swing the microphone. I'm glad you're on your, a beer and a half here. I mean. Some of us have to be responsible. Oh, yeah, whatever. That's just iced tea. emptied that. Oh.

Then heat sealed it again. Here we go. Here we go. I mean, it's good tea. I will say that. It's good tea. So skydive progression. Yep.

This is, I mean, you're, you've kind of taken a little bit of a break from this, which is kind of, you and Trevor, really. You and Trevor both, because when I met you two, that was so high on your, like, priority list. It was like part of a daily, it was like, it was like. a routine for both of you and then it's just like obviously life takes different turns at times so I live 10 years or 10 years I live 10 minutes from a drop zone in San Diego so I actually would have people think I'm joking I would make a coffee in the morning and when I heard the first plane of the day taking off I would call and put myself on the manifest and drive out there and I could I could do six to 10 jumps in a day and be back before I needed to you know pick the kids up at

school. So and Trevor was out there jumping too because he was on the leapfrogs at the time. So we were training and I was working with those guys and moving to Montana has been great except there's no drop zones. Yeah. Anywhere near where I live. Is there base jumping in Glacier National Park? Yes. At this phase in my life, do I want to deal with the legalities of something that's already dangerous? I don't. It's not worth the risk. Which is a good choice. From like your friends' perspective, all of us, you know, me, Jago, Joe, and all of us. You guys also don't necessarily understand it either. You just look at it.

Well, we totally don't understand it, but we also are like, you know, I don't know. It's like if I didn't bow hunt for a long, long time, would I go on a spot and style grizzly hunt like my first time back? People would probably be like, well, what the heck? And part of me would be like, dude, I've been around bears. a million times. Doesn't mean the current. I've wondered, yeah, well, see, that's what I was wondering.

Like, the progression, the importance about progression is, like, the currency of it. And even though I got certified with you and Trevor, which was awesome. And I think if you were still in San Diego and Trevor was still there. We'd probably jump our asses of us. Yeah, I think I would have been way more on the ball with that, too. But now I'm sitting there thinking, like, if I were to go back and jump right now, Do I need to go back to a school for a day before I would jump again? I feel like I should.

And I'm in that same boat too when it comes to... Would you do that? I don't need to. I mean, I got 7,000 jumps. So there's a little bit of a difference. Just like... There is? There, well, yes.

But would I just go send it off of a cliff in my wingsuit? Absolutely not. I would need to go right back to the very beginning of probably go back to the Parian Bridge in Idaho just to refresh packing base jumping rigs. And I would be in shorts and a t-shirt. probably for a week, rep after rep after rep after rep after rep. Would you have someone there to like watch you pack the first time

to be like, hey, can you double check me? Yeah, I would have the guy who taught me who's actually going to be on the podcast here in a few weeks. His name is Miles Dasher. I would link up with him full refresher. And even though I have every step written down in my base jumping logbook, the back two pages are a step by step,

do this, fold this direction. I still would go and find somebody who would mentor me. Yeah, that's cool. Have him check. I would start at the bridge and then I would go start skydiving, get current again skydiving, throw my wingsuit on,

out of the plane. Out of the plane. Then if I wanted to combine that and go wingsuit-based jumping, I would go somewhere maybe notch peak. Like an entry level? Well, it doesn't necessarily mean to be entry-level.

I would need to have an exit that didn't have as steep of the consequences because there's exits over... So you'd choose technicality six out of ten versus an eight or nine out of it. Oh, I'd choose a two out of ten. Oh, okay. Damn. I would want the safest exit that I could get my hands on, meaning the maximum amount of time from feet leaving the edge of the cliff until impact. You know, there's jumps that I've done that are slightly over. They're overhung or underhung. You know, it could be the wall is going away from you as you push out,

or there's some that have a mandatory push that you need to clear. Like, you don't want to play with any of that stuff until you're incredibly current. No close, proximity flight to the terrain. It would be, hey, I'm going to exit this item, fly my suit, and pull high. And then rep after rep after rep after rep after rep. And then, but again, all of that takes time. It takes access to those locations.

And none of that I really have anymore. Are those places open? Which ones? Like skydive San Diego? Yes. Are they like rolling? Yeah, Paris. I've seen videos of people jumping up in Paris, which is east of L.A. That's awesome.

Yeah. I mean, they're following the protocols that they need to. But anything outside? seems like, I mean, you're way better off, right? For sure. Yeah, getting forced inside seems to be the easiest way to transmit. But having said that, you're forced inside a small aircraft to skydive. So they're taking the precautions. But I can't stress enough, you know, progression.

I've seen more than enough people end up in a pine box because they'll watch a YouTube video. I'm making an assumption. But for whatever reason they decide they want to become a wingsuit base jumper. Yep. But they don't want to take a couple of years to develop skill and knowledge and experience in the skydiving world. So they rush that and get themselves in over their head. Even though I've been jumping since 99, I am nowhere near the place where I used to be to do that stuff. So I would even go back.

Probably not to the beginning, but to where I feel comfortable and build from that. So you have to understand the progression. And then I cannot over-emphasize the currency. I don't care how many jumps you have. If you're not current, I mean, flying a wingsuit is completely visual. So there's no altimeter when you wing suit base jump. It's just camera one, camera two. Yeah.

And what the suit feels like. Does it feel inflated? Do I have enough power that I can get away from terrain? And if you're not used to feeling that, you have no business, you know, towing up to the edge of that stuff. Yeah. I think one of the things with that whole school, it was, do you think everybody should do a tandem first? I didn't tandem first. I kind of just thought like...

I didn't either. It depends on the student. And I think it depends largely... Because one of the guys in my class, I realized, like, I think, didn't he go up with us and he didn't go... He didn't jump out. And then he ended up tanning...

He did a tandem. Because he ended up graduating after me. I've seen that happen. Yeah. I don't know if that happened with him. And the thing with tantums, I would say is this. If you're very trepidacious, if you're super scared,

if you're not really sure if you want to do it, go the tandem route first. For sure. Because your responsibility. is zero. Yeah. If you know that it's something you want to do or you've done a tandem and you want to go the AFF route and learn on your own, then do that. But the easiest

exposure and the lowest responsibility for the jumper is just to be strapped to somebody and just let them do all the work. It's their job. I feel like the wind tunnel is so valuable. Like the fact that we wind tunneled first gave me just instant confidence

of when I went out of that plane, what I would feel. It gives you context. you can't teach unless you experience it. Yeah, you really can't. There's no way you can describe, like, what that does. And even when you try to, there's so many people that aren't good at it. Like, yeah, because of the amount of times, and, you know, I Fly is awesome, and we've been to a lot of them, we've rented several of them out. But I feel like because you're a bigger person, you also like recognize the mistakes that I'm making in what they really mean versus some of these instructors are like very small framed so I would just based on like I think what I recognize it seems

like the bigger you are you're kind of you know you're putting a magnifier on on that on that variable I don't know if it's well so the littler a lot of the tunnel guys are about that Some of the best flyers in the world are generally lean, tall, or not necessarily tall, but they're, I guess, lanky. They're kind of in between. They're kind of lanky.

And so when you think about the wind tunnel, the higher your body weight is, the more wind, the higher the velocity, they have to push you from below. And that's the artificiality of the tunnel. So they have to keep cranking and cranking it and cranky it. And the level for you and I to fly on our belly, some of those smaller dudes,

they're flying on their head and they're carving around. I don't think it necessarily amplifies. The movements are the movements, but you have a higher velocity of wind elevating you. So when you make a correction, you know... It's magnified because of the amount of pressure they have to put to hold you up because you're in a controlled environment. That's what I would say. And if that little guy... That would make sense.

If that little guy, if he had the same amount of wind coming up underneath, from a ratio perspective, if he made a gross move or it would have the same impact. So if they cranked it up to what were that for us? When I started to do my, when I did back, because I think the last time. They're going to turn it down for that because they want to keep you closer to the net. Okay. The mesh net on the bottom. I remember something we were doing last seemed like it was, I can't remember what the last things we were doing was. Was it sitting or on the back?

Belly to back transitions. So going from your belly towards the earth to your back. I'd say for your belly, they're probably going to have your terminal velocity is going to be, You're probably close to 120. For me, I'm probably 1.15. And then what about some of those little guys that were in there with us? Shit, if they were on their belly, 100 probably. Yeah.

It really depends. Yeah. It's a mathematical, you know, you can figure it out mathematically. If you drop a bowling ball and a baseball from an airplane, they're going to land at different, you know, at different times. So, yeah, I'd say they probably had you on your belly. And you can tell when they first start teaching you in a wind tunnel, the wind is lower.

And you're sitting there like, I can't get off the net. And that's actually a safety mechanism for you. But you can learn to turn with small movements. You're just not because, and their worry is, and it's totally founded, because I've seen shit get wild in the tunnel. The more speed they give you with the wind, if you jam your legs out straight,

you're going to rock it into the glass, ask Jocko. You know, it's, if they keep it lower, you'll still move forward. So they wait until, and actually those tunnels, if you look on the wall, they have levels of flyers. Yeah. And sometimes you'll see the instructors and they'll tap their head. That means they want that throttle smashed all the way forward. Yeah.

And they'll fly vertically. But if they make a mistake and say catch a 45 degree angle too long, so it's, you, it's all, it's again, it's foundations. Yeah. It's a structured approach to how do you get there? And the fastest way to kill yourself would be never being in a tunnel. Tap your head. They wouldn't crank it up.

But if they did, God help you, because it's about to get fucking Western. And I've seen it. And it's awesome. Yeah. Because we used to do that to military. I got a little Western on that one, on my one jump. Yeah, that's all right. Yeah.

It happens. Yeah. You failed me. Yeah, you deserve to fail. Your performance was substandard and you needed to exit the forge. Now, you basically just, as you were pulling, you basically dropped your shoulder low. And it's, I mean, you've. And I tuck my feet, like, looking back.

And you've jumped now. It's not rocket surgery. Yeah. It's about symmetrical presentation of surface area to the wind. Yeah. If I take this my right hand and like just put it here, it's like there's no, there's nothing crazy about it. So that's why when you reach back to pull, you know, everything is kind of attached. If you're going to do this, it's symmetrical.

And if you don't, then you suffer the consequence. Yeah, backflip, pull. It's so common. Somehow I didn't like loop around my leg. I don't know. It's, it's, it's not that it's hard to get yourself in trouble, but a lot has to really go wrong. possibly. Yeah, or you could be unlucky and you can just be nuked on your first jump.

I mean, but like when, in regards to the progression, for those of you listening, like, when I went through the class and then did the first jump, you kind of have, you have like very systematic stages of things that you have to do that are important. And very few per jump. Yeah, each one is like a little. and then you add, you just continually add to that towards your certification. But the reality is you're really not free-falling

for that long before you pull. Was I pulling at half the altitude, or like double the altitude as you guys? Would you say? No, I think you were pulling at five. I think you were starting your wave off and pull at 55, so you were probably clearing pins at... I thought it was 75, but maybe it was 55.

Oh, God, no. No, it was in the fives for sure. But I felt like I was floating for like five minutes more than you guys. You were on a bigger canopy. So your canopy was probably... But you get a lot of like, in those first jumps, you get a lot of like ability to navigate a canopy around. It's one of the most important aspects. I mean, your canopy, you felt like that because you were probably at a greater than one to one, or less than one to one wing loading. Meaning if for one pound of body weight, let's say somebody weighs 200 pounds. If your canopy is 200 square feet, that's a one to one. you were probably jumping close to a 300 square foot canopy.

And the reason why it felt like you were up there longer is I was jumping an 84 square foot canopy. Yeah. So it's, and mine is designed to dive. Yeah. So I'm on the ground. And that also, though, as an instructor, gives us a chance the radio and your headset to allow you to practice stuff.

I mean, it's designed to be that way. You need more time. Yeah, because you would be, you know, that's the one cool thing, too. If you haven't ever done certification, they actually have a Motorola connected to the side of your helmet. So as you're up there, you're getting really good navigation saying like, you know, all right, looks good. You know, hey, you know, pull right, pull right. Okay, that's a good line right there. You're good, you're good.

Okay, now bank left, bank left, and then you bank left, at least for this approach. You know, bank left, bank left, good, good, good. And then bank left again, bank left, bank left, okay, good. hold, hold, hold, and you would literally be coming in and you know, you're kind of waiting for the right height and then they would be like, you know, pull, pull, pull, pull, pull. Yeah, flare, I guess. And so then you'd fully flare and then, you know, feed up,

walk it through, walk it out. And then, you know, good job, good job. So it was really cool to have that. Well, it's not different than when you were teaching me archery at your house the first time walking me through everything. And then as things go on, you would add something else for me to think about in an attempt to, move me farther along and not overwhelm me.

And then you would say, you know what I mean? It's just, it's a crawl, walk, run. Another way you can think of it is you're in positive control, at least verbally from the instructors for your first few jumps. And then they say less and less and less. And hopefully by your last jump, usually the seventh or eighth, and you're on your own. And after that, you jump by yourself.

I remember there's been a few times where you've done way more archery than I did skydiving. Yes. when it comes to the, you know, like our one-on-one communication in regards to that. So, like, I remember a year ago, I kind of gave you a pointer on something, and you said, I was doing this two years ago, wasn't I? And I go, oh, yeah. Yeah. Like, you weren't ready for it yet. But you would have exploded my brain if you would have told me that two years before. But that's been in my mind about, like, I'm sitting there thinking how much, and maybe that's how you and I are programmed, but in the back of my mind, I'm thinking,

how much am I actually doing wrong that he's not telling me yet? How do you think I feel when I do Jiu-Jitsu? Oh, man. So you got coaches that have been black belts for like 15, 16 years, and they'll say, hey, put your hand here. And you have the same thought process. I'm like, what are you guys not telling me? Because I know, for a fact, I'm doing it a lot more wrong.

They're three years down the road trying to set you up for something you need to learn later. But that's, I mean, that's the mark of a good coach, because they could sit me on the bench and, be like, listen, first you need to think about this and then do this and then do this and they'll give me 15 things. By the end of that, I remember none and I go back out and I just get mulled because all I'm thinking about is what did they just say as I'm getting smashed as opposed to them saying, get off your toes or get off your knees. Yeah. You're like, oh, okay, I can do that. Yeah. And then six months later, you know, do this. Like, okay, I can do that. That's, I mean, to me,

that's the difference between a good coach and a bad coach. How, like, when it comes to skydiving, how much do you think people need to be fully committed to that in order to really pursue certification? Because I feel like I was... What do you mean by certification? Well, this guy was just asking about progressive, but I'm kind of taking it a step further. Like for me, when you said, hey, do you want to skydive? I said, well, if I skydive, I want to like know how to do it. Yep. So, but I was committed to that too. You and I, you know, we did I fly ahead of time. And Like, I had delegated time to that process. For skydiving, do you think people, if they want, like, that first certification,

how far mentally do you think they need to be? If you want to get certified, commit the time and monetary resources to get through the initial certification. I would say to your A license, which I think would be your AFF course, and I might be wrong because I'm not super current. Another seven or something? I think it's 20 total jumps. And you have to do a... Depends how many times Andy fails you to get to your first one. It's performance dependent and you didn't meet the standard.

Once. But here's the thing. I wouldn't have been... I failed one in my AFFT. Yeah. Part of me feels like the only reason you failed me is because you couldn't do it all in one go. It doesn't do anybody any good, specifically the person learning to push them for where they're not ready to be, you know, advanced. So I would say you did your AFF cert in a weekend.

Mm-hmm. If you want to get a good exposure, dedicate the time to do that, but I would say if you're going to do it, get your A license, so I'm pretty sure it's 20 jumps. It'd be cool to like delegate two weeks to like go do an Airbnb

in San Diego. And you'd probably have your B license by the end of that, which I think is 50. Again, I'd have to go through the regs. And don't be afraid to take some time between like that first class and your first cert. And then I feel like

I feel like by the end of that first cert, it's actually harder, like, it's harder embracing the wind than you think. Like, I could have done with taking a few days off to, like, recoup to where I feel like I would have been better going back to, like, get that actual A license. I think, well, for myself, you know, when you're in the AFF course, you're, your task focused. Check my altimeter, do a 90 degree left, or whatever it may be, front flip or a backflip. and then you jump out in your own for the first time, and you can kind of just, like, look around. I remember my first solo jump, I jumped out,

and I didn't do shit. With that? I just looked at the horizon, and I, like, looked at the San Diego Bay, and it was relaxing more than stressful because I didn't have anything to accomplish other than at some point before impacting the ground to deploy my parachute.

Yeah, because I guess when, on my last jumps, because obviously you're trying to complete a bunch of tasks before you hit where you need to pull. Which you're being told to complete. not choosing them. Yeah. So it was like, you know, right turn stop, left turn stop. I think it was like.

Forward movement. Well, I had to check. I had to check altimeter. I had to forward slide, rear slide, flip on my back, do an uncontrolled. Backflip. That's how we get people on their back. Yeah. Back flip and then stabilize and then a dive.

Track. Yeah. And so then I had to track to a direction, which was the funnest. Like part of me didn't like. like the fact that I was never able to like, you know, I always had to do the like foot in, out in out. Oh yeah, the count. Yeah. Whereas you were just like, we're going, you know. Like I was looking forward to that next step of just like, all right, bail out. And then everyone can just freaking bail out because that's. But that would have been, you know, your first jump by

yourself when you're off of your AFF status and you're building jumps towards your license. Yeah. You could have jumped out and done a whole skydye. where you track. Yeah. Or if your backflips or your thing or front flips, you could have done it the whole way down.

Yeah. But you have to build that off of fundamentals. Yeah. What'd you do on your first one out? Nothing. I jumped out and just tried to relax and it just,

I was focusing more on what what it actually feels like to be falling as opposed to left night, you know what I mean? Left 90, check altimeter, right 90,

heading control, check out. It was just, I just jumped out and I looked at the bay. I'm like, this is fucking awesome. it would be so cool to get Rogan up there.

He'll never do it. I've offered it so many times. I don't think he'll do it. He won't. But I think if he did, like, I think he just... You know the key to that? Because he loves that stuff. Here's the gateway.

You already know the gateway. It's the tunnel. Yeah. There's one in Austin. Oh, that's right. We've been there. Is that the one we used? No, we used San Diego or San Antonio.

Yeah, but there is one in Austin. So that's the gateway drug for Joe. He won't do it, though. He'll do the tunnel. I don't think there's any way. we could physically get him in an aircraft. I don't know. Maybe.

Maybe. Nah, probably not. I'll tell you right now, I've asked him a half a dozen times, and now I just get back the middle finger of Motocon when I ask him, he's just like, fuck you. But I bet you he would love the tunnel. Because with his jiu-suitousy background and his-

What's awesome is he could buy one now. He could build one at his house. Why buy one? Just build it. That's one of the things if I had just like F-U-Mun Oh, for sure. A wind tunnel would be way up on the list. Yep, I agree.

I would probably buy that before I'd get a hunting, like an actual hunting ranch. Yeah, because there's probably less upkeep on the tunnel than the ranch. Just pay somebody a couple grand to go hunt their ranch, let them do the feed. Who was that dude that we skydied with in San Antonio, the tall dude? Oh, Punisher? Yeah. He used to work out of the tunnel in Eloy. I mean, I have known.

Eli. Eli. Is it? Skydive Arizona is Eloy. Okay. Arizona. I've known him or we've known

each other. Not well, but shit, since the early 2000s. How small is that world? Because I was surprised. There's a lot of people who, the tunnel coaching world, they'll start splintering out. And as I fly opens other tunnels,

they'll generally take staff members that are developing. So I probably only know a couple of them at this point because I haven't been in a tunnel in a while. But it's small. There's not that many people who skydive. I can't even imagine. imagine if it's 100,000. I'd say it's less. Yeah. Well, I think your side business would be people

hire you for coaching with a one-hour wind tunnel. No, no, I'm not interested in doing that. I'd do it for my friends, but there's no amount of money that would have me. That's what I would say if someone asked me about. Like zero amount of money is going to make me be willing and ready to do that. I refuse. Are you wanting to talk to me about anything? I asked all the questions. No. All this stuff I would want to talk about would be hunting stuff, but we talked about it. We don't know what... Are we going to do a full auto Friday record? Yeah, let's do that tomorrow.

We don't have to do it all right now. No, but I mean, like, we should do that. That way you've got straight up. Yeah, for this Friday coming up. All the stuff I would want to talk about is stuff we can't actually answer. Like, are we going to get to hunt together in 21? Is this, you know... Well, we can answer that.

I mean, it's just a matter of like... like we book something instantly and then it's done. Well, it better be in a state we know it's going to be open. Yes, very true. We're going to do that in Canada, which is 60 miles from where we are right now, but it might as well be $6 million because we can't cross, well, we can cross the border, but we can't do anything for 14 days. That's a solid start to the night.

It is. It is. No, I think we, let's just commit to actually hanging out more in 2021. one. Dude. I mean, let's do it. Yeah.

We came way the freak up here. You need to get to Iowa. I will come to Iowa. You guys are, I mean, not you guys, but Iowa seems, you know,

it's not a good time to surprise people because they might give you a hazmat suit and tell you to sleep in the garage. You know, it's like, how good does it feel like

once you've got COVID, though, and it's over? Uh, I feel like, pros and cons. I mean, you know it's it's weird to say it because you know there's people you know well one of my really good

friends his dad has it right now and is like struggling with it so it's hard to say it but and he was worried about it so he went to get tested and he's like I'm negative and and part of me's like dang like everyone who's got it and they made it through it you're just like okay like I don't have to worry about that friend right now yeah And, you know, though, I don't know how long. It's like you, Evan, freaking, you know, Rogan. I'm just like, Jocko. I was like, because part of me in the back of my mind's like, it's just, it's like

Murphy's law. Like with Jocko, you're thinking like, okay. Because when we talk skydiving with Jocko, Jocko is like, yeah, I have this dream. We're like, I'm in this plane that's crashing and I just totally survive it because I can, I just grab, I rip the seat off the plane and I jump out the window and then I thought, throw the seat across the surface of the water to like break the surface tension then I just dive in and I'm fine. Straight up, straight up.

I actually remember that. And so I'm thinking like in the back of my mind like, God dang, it would just be Murphy's law if like this thing that everybody who, you know, doesn't have superpowers is kind of making it through and then like it takes out someone major you know where you're like what like when the rock had it or something you're like oh you know crap you know like if someone like that take like if it takes down like a rogan a rock a jaco like everyone else on earth are going to be thinking oh no agreed i'm totally like at that point your hopes are totally down so every time someone i know gets it and makes it through, and I'm like,

few, okay, that's awesome. You know, it's like one person that I'm close to that would, I would legitimately struggle with that, like, I would have to deal with that.

Um, I don't know. I am glad that I don't have to worry about what it would be like. Like the fear of the unknown is generally worse than the activity itself. I'm not saying, but I'm not trying to diminish, uh, what it is for people because the experiences are different.

for everybody. I wish it wasn't having the impact that it was. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. It's a bummer deal. But like shout out. I know your new sponsor's origin.

Yep. And shout out to all those guys. They're freaking awesome. Obviously, um, Jocko and Helen are like super good friends and, and just had some awesome, awesome times with them.

You know, love, I don't know, it's hard because people want us to do this when we're together. It's almost more fun to not and just be able to be in the moment. See, that's what's hard is like, I know people want to know what it's like and they want, that like they want to be part of like us hanging out, but also there's this fine line of, you know, we have such a good time when none of us think about that. Yeah. To where, you know, it's like, if we're with Joe, as much as.

like the JRE is freaking everyone wants to know about it and there's probably topics that all of us talk about that would be cool for everyone to listen to. It's like there comes a time too where you have to turn it off and I don't know it's it's tough to like navigate that of when do we turn it on for everybody and when do we turn it off to where we can like catch up at the same it's tough. I don't have an answer for that because half the shit I say. is not appropriate for a podcast anyway. Very true. Yeah.

Dude, I worry about you every day and it's COVID is the least of the worries. Believe me. No, it, I mean, when I was like, God dang,

is that, is that two wooden dicks and freaking? It was. It's two wooden dicks. And sometimes I'll post pictures of them with no context and let people figure it out on their own. But, you know,

Jocko is in, uh, uh, uh, a big sky not too long ago. And he since left because the snow was a little bit low tide. And I was going to go down. go down and bore with him for a day. And in the back of my head, I have a travel podcast kit,

which I was intentionally not going to take. Because I just want to go, I mean, he's just my friend. I could, like, would there be a value with the podcast potentially grow if you do that episode? Maybe. Yeah. But I'd rather just go and just hang out. And, you know, and I don't know what that says about me. I mean, I'm not trying to withhold anything from anybody, but I think we have every right to live our own lives too. No, but part of us, like, wants that relief of, of, you know, man, I haven't, like yesterday when I freaking like hugged you, it felt like as much, like part of me wanted to be live to like let people see like I'm surprised in Andy. But it felt so good to just be able to see you again and just like sit around and talk. And then and then it was almost weird like starting the podcast too because I don't know.

there's so much stuff that we talked about that we want to just talk about because we're friends that's what's funny too about like podcasts is you and I will shoot text back and forth just to just to jack with each other so like me

posting a picture of you and the creed guy you know a good friend of mine Ryan text me he's like holy shit dude are you and Andy okay and I'm like, this is the least of everyone's worry. Yeah, we're dying laughing. Like this, we have way worse texts to each other that we can't show than like Andy as the creed singer.

Yeah. Now, it's an interesting balance. I'd love having the ability to do this and sit down and talk about stuff because I do think it makes a difference for people. But I also seriously guard my personal time and the, and the, deeper level of a relationship than I don't care how long your podcast is. I think you only scratch the service of that. And I don't think you should try because I don't know, maybe it would be less valuable for the two people. If they just tried to make everything about that public, I don't think it's the right way to go. Yeah, I mean, I feel like when Jock came and I never really, I never posted

this, and hopefully I'm not overstepping bounds, but like Helen really wanted to to learn archery because Helen is Jocko's wife. Yeah. So Jocco has really incorporated archery into his routine. Like he's part of that. And it doesn't, what's cool about archery is it doesn't have to be, it takes less time if you have an ability to shoot at home. Oh, yeah.

You can pick up your bow and you can make, like, honestly, if I shoot 40 good arrows, If I shoot four hours at a time times 10, I feel like I practice today. Now there's times where when I'm shooting good, I love it, and I'll shoot for, I'll extend that. And I'll really, sometimes I just get into a zone and I go and I go and I go. And I'm like that lifting too. There's times where I'm like, I need to lift today and I want to lift today. And I'll go in and I'll go through the motions. But there's also times where I go in and I start moving.

moving weight to the point where like I think yesterday I worked out like an hour and 50 minutes not because I wanted to but just because I felt good doing it and I thought I'm I'm improving myself by pushing by like moving this pin and I was able to move it and there's certain days where I can't move it so it's really hard and that's what's hard for me like when people want me to post a specific training regimen for archery is and maybe this was the same for maybe was it the same for you guys in the teams where if the team is like working as a unity you guys try something harder because right then you might be able to go to another level together because you're because like you're mixing really well at that time whereas when they say like

hey, today we're going to do this, like, we're going to do this mission. And if there's like friction within the system, it's just like, it's not going to happen that day. So you can do it to go through the motions, but you're not going to do it to progress. You won't do it to progress unless you really can pay attention to where you are. Like writing a workout routine is great or putting up numbers or percentages, but it, you have to be able to adapt that for the individual. Someone's like, okay, today is going to be five, five, sets a deadlift at your one rep max, but you're exhausted for something else that you did. Yeah.

You have to modify that or you're going to set yourself backwards. So having a template is great, but you have to stay in touch with who you are. Did you feel like that was a setback for like when you did very specific, like CrossFit style routines? Were you almost calendar something to where it doesn't really matter how people feel? I never well the workouts would be almost universally applicable the scaling is where the art form comes in like you can write a workout

but let's say you have a workout that has an overhead component and somebody comes in with a shoulder injury the art form is being able to find a stimulus that works for them around their injuries the workout itself it's super easy to write tailoring it to the person tailoring that workout so it's effective for the person where they are in that moment

and then doing it for another person and another person and another person. On the whiteboard it says five things, but you actually turn around and you have 15 different variations. Will they do that? A good coach will. That's cool.

Yeah, that's how I ran it at the gym that I owned. Yeah, that's cool. You write it on the whiteboard, but that's, or, you know, and a lot of times I would write workouts that were aspirational. Like, this is what I would love to be able to do. Yeah.

But this is like your third day, so you get a PVC pipe and you get 135 pounds. Okay. You know, and so that's the art form. The writing of the actual structure is simple. Maybe that's why it's been hard for me to prescribe like archery routine, like archery workouts for people. Because I've got to the point where I adapt so much to what I'm feeling to where I know if I'm, if I'm in the right mindset, I'll over train because it's not over training.

it's like it's utilizing CPU that's it's bandwidth that's there and so there's times where there's times where maybe I've shot 500 errors in a day but there's also days where if I shoot 40 that's way more beneficial than 500 but I bet you could write out an optimal template for people and then that would be chapter one optimal template yeah the other 15 chapters are how do you scale this how do you modify this what should you do on a good day is it And you know, and you can go into things like, I shot my daily allotment. I still feel great. Is there value in shooting more or is there potential negative consequence in shooting more?

Do you feel like you could write that if someone just, do you feel like you could write a book because someone told you to write a book? No. See, I don't either. But that's also because I'm a retard. I'm not capable. I'm not going to write a book. It's not happening. I want to.

I really want to. but I feel like I feel like so many things that are like real that I say or write like sometimes posts that I write are based on a moment of experience and that's what's hard like I don't know how I don't know how

jock you know he'll sit down and just like he'll write because he has to write and I think that's a I forget what he told me one time. He said like the difference between if someone has writers block, they're not really a writer. You know, because a writer needs a right. Yeah. Where I feel like, I feel like things that I say are, are like, they're actually true expressions of what I feel. I'm not like writing because I want to, I want to write. So that's what's hard for me to like ever, people that have asked for me to put

together a book, I feel like it would be very sporadic. Yeah, but you don't have to release it. You know what I mean? Like, you could write your book and take as long as you want to and then never publish it if it's not what you want. Yeah. People ask me to write books all the time, and my answer is, what am I going to talk about that hasn't been covered ad nauseum? So there I was doing something that many, many people had done before me. And many, it's like, shut up. I don't know. Did anyone smoke a dude with a javelin? Oh, yeah. Yeah, it wasn't the first person to do I might have loved it more than anybody else, but I wasn't the first person to do that. I mean...

How did you get that lock? Do you have like a Tonka toy keychain in his pocket? For what? Oh, no, it's a heat-seeking missile. So you end up looking through the warhead and it's a fire-and-forget heat-seeking missile. So it was just heat signature. Yep. Straight up.

Correct. Fire and forget. Have you shown anyone that video? I posted it on Instagram. Of course you did. Social media is for what I choose. for what I choose. I mean, I didn't necessarily describe what it was in the caption, but yeah, it's seen the light of day. All right. Do you think, like, do you think our better halves are

waiting for us? Probably. It's 5 o'clock. Yeah, but it was a killer podcast, though. It was. Yeah, and we can do a full out of Friday tomorrow, or not. It's the beauty. I think we do it. All right. I think we do it. Well, stand by, because I'm going to solicit for questions today, guess what topic they'll probably be on? Dudley, what kind of bow should I buy? Do you know how many thousands of fucking times people have asked me? Andy, what bow should I buy? I'm like, please for the love of God, ask John. Well, I mean, the bow that...

You finally gave me the answer recently. Yeah, the bow that I brought out this year was very specific for that. Yeah. But all right. That'll work. I'll save this other half. For Friday. For Friday.

Well, actually, it'll come out on Friday. It will be filmed on Monday. Don't tell them that. They don't know. They do now. They've made it this far. All right, man. Thank you again to Ladder Life Insurance for supporting this episode of the podcast.

Remember, ladder makes it quick and easy to get you covered for life insurance. To lock in your best rate today and get your family covered with ladder, go to ladderlife.com slash cleared hot. That is ladderlife.com slash cleared hot. I would also like to thank ExpressVPN for supporting this episode of the podcast. It sucks how much of our life now occurs online. But you can do something when it comes to handling your privacy. Stop handing over your personal data to internet service providers and other tech giants. Protect yourself by visiting expressvpn.com slash cleared hot to learn more and get an extra three months free.

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