Cleared Hot - Powered By BRCC - Episode 226 - Jim Miller

Episode Date: March 28, 2022

Jim Miller is an American mixed martial artist, who currently competes in the UFC lightweight division. He currently holds the record of most bouts in UFC history, most wins in UFC history, and most wins in the UFC lightweight division. Prior to his career in mixed martial arts, Jim and his brother Dan worked in construction with their father. Since the spring of 2013 Miller has been suffering from Lyme disease, which doctors were slow to diagnose. However, since his diagnosis, Miller has been able to alleviate the symptoms of the disease by changing his nutrition plan.

Good morning, everybody. You know who is bringing you this episode. For the rest of the year, you know who's bringing you these episodes. Black Rifle Coffee, that's right. What you need to do, if you want to, if you're into cool shit and coffee that tastes great, is go to Black Rifle Coffee.com and check out what they have. They have more than just coffee. They've got apparel.

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Black Riflecoffee.com. If you don't want your coffee to suck. And that's it for today. Oh, I almost forgot. I put up some rash guards. People always ask me when the rash guards are going to go up. I put up some blackout rash guards. I think it was yesterday.

I don't know. They're alive right now. But I digress. My guest today is Jim Miller, who is a mixed martial artist. He's a goddamn cage fighter. He has more fights than anybody in the UFC. And more wins than anybody in the UFC.

He's out. of his goddamn mind. He enjoys punching people in the face hole, which I can deeply respect. However, I want no part of the Octagon. He's also an outdoor enthusiast. He was a wrestler before getting into MMA. He had a crazy experience with Lyme disease. He's an archer and a bow hunter. All of the awesome things. So I shall be quiet now and let you enjoy. Episode number 226 with Jim Miller. Oh, whatever a minute. Dudley's texting me. He's like, oh, I don't know if I showed you.

I sent him a whole bunch of, like, UFC shit for a shadow box. I'm like, you never showed me it finished. He finally, it was like two years ago. What happened? I sent him a fight kit for, uh... What's a fight kit? Uh, so shorts, jacket. Did you wash them?

I did. I did, yeah. It's not even very authentic if you wash them. Yeah. And like, I finally got a photo of what it looks like. He just got a. it done? No, he's had it done for a while. It's where I rank. It's okay.

Speaking of Dudley, why did you shoot his door? This might be the origin story of this podcast. It probably is, yeah. Well, so I showed up at his house. I had literally shot the silverback three times, like three shots. Go back and time even farther. How did you meet him? How did I meet Dudley? I was building two of my bows and my wife's bow. And I was like, all right, well, how the hell do I put on a fucking D-loop? And, you know.

That is a legitimate question. Knock points and stuff like that. So I went, you know, on YouTube. And it's like, hey, here's John Dudley. And that was like early, maybe early 2016. because I think I got my wife, Herbeau, Christmas of, you know, 2015. And I'm walking out to the Octagon at UC 200,

and I see that big, goofy son of a bitch. And I was like, oh, my God, I know him. Like, oh, that's that. I know that guy. So I go out, I fought Taken Origomi, TK Odom in about two minutes. And I, like, jumped on the cage. And I was like, hey, let's go shoot something sometime.

I didn't know. that it was going to be his door a few months later. So he hit me up on Twitter a couple weeks later. And, you know, we talked the phone a bit. And I met him. I went to the ATA that following January. And yeah, and then met him like in person there. And then we went on a pig hunt like right before I fought Dustin Poillier.

Like right before. Some people would think it would be a bad idea. But at that point, all the work is kind of done. I was having a really rough camp for that one. I was pretty banged up. So having like five, six days off of training, you know, I did. Probably saved your life. It kind of saved my, the fight, I think, you know,

because at that point, nothing really good can happen. So if I had continued to train the way that I was, I might have gotten sick or might have gotten hurt. So, you know, and I, And I'm kind of one of those guys that's like, I need to, I need to be me. I need to do the shit that I like to do in order to perform the best, you know. Like my brain works better if I'm doing stuff that I enjoy, which is like killing shit and making shit and, you know, tinkering. So, yeah, I went on the trip with him and I got into Iowa and he's like, all right, let's grab a drink and grab your bow.

So, so like we start shooting in his basement. And when I say start shooting, like I had, like I said, I'd gotten the silverback. I think I'd gotten the knock to it, like, right after I met him. Or in a minute after I'd seen him. After you called him out, the page. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He actually sent that one to me. I didn't have to, you know, create an alias to order shit from him to support him.

That comes later. Yeah, it comes later. I look at like the wing of, you know, the school knock, and it's like, I paid for that one. Bought a lot of fucking arrows under Mike Honcho. And, yeah, so I'd gotten the knock to it, or the silverback, rather, and I had shot it like three times with the current bow that I had. And I did not like it at all. So I put it away and showed up there in Iowa. What did you not like about it?

So hold on, for people listening, Silverback is a handheld. archery release that has a safety that you hold while you draw, you anchor, go through your shot sequence, you release the safety, and then it's a tension fired, meaning you just continuously pull back and you don't actually know when it's going to go off. Yeah. What did you not like about that? Well, I think it was a matter of me being a shitty archer at the time. Like when I was shooting, like before I met Dudley, I could hit like a big block target at 60. most of the time I could keep six arrows on the target. You're talking like a haybell? Just about like one of the like three foot by three foot targets. And after a little bit of coaching, it was like,

and I'm grouping and, you know, banging arrows together at 60. So there was the fact that I sucked. And then like the bow that I had at the time was very like jumpy. Early tech, if you want. In comparison to what we have now. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And it felt like it was just going to jump out of your hands. Even if, you know, the valley was so small in it. You know, it's like one of those speedbows, you know, looking for that extra FPS, bro. You know, so I could shoot through a white tail at 20 yards. Yeah. Sacrifice everything for some extra feet per second. Exactly. Exactly. So I would draw it back and I'd take my thumb off the safety and that motherfucker would go. So I was like, yeah, we'll put this down.

and we'll come to this later so I go to Iowa he gives me a Hoyt a little you know a much better bow yeah

like even in like the the individual brands it was a generational upgrade yes yes definitely you know I was like going from a you know Pujo wagon to a Porsche

and uh we shot a couple shots and you know I had been working on it, like, leading up to it, like, trying to get my shot process. Like, he had, you know, he'd coach me through, you know, videos and stuff like that. And I drew back. This is, like, the fourth shot that while I'm there, maybe fifth shot.

So we're under 10 reps with the, with the silverback. And are you just standing by the base of his stairs? Yeah. Okay. So this shot is at maximum seven yards. Yep. And he goes, oh, that's a shitty one, let it down. I had never let that fucking thing.

I'd never, like. The idea of letting a shot down had never come, you know, like really crossed my mind with any other release. You know, I shot a wrist strap and I had used the thumb, a thumbfire release before too. And, you know, I'd been using the knock to it. But, you know, like, let a shot down. Like, if I draw back, I'm letting fly. So immediately I start relaxing and then he starts yelling, safety, safety, safety. and then like, you know, it's just mayhem in my brain.

Like, what is he talking about? You know, I'm like, and I got out of the valley before my thumb got on the safety and right into his wall. God, it must have been such a glorious, just hollow core door. Just, whop! Wow. You know, live on Facebook, too. He has versions on his phone that are slowed down to different, like, one-eighth speed,

one-six. I think the one-eighths is about the best. because you it goes and you like look at like yeah and then I go and then I flinch into it you know like like as it's going off I kind of like jerked into it is uh yeah so um I've learned a lot about archery and shooting a back tension release I'm still I've got to too smooth and I'm still afraid of it um that's one of the few things that he has produced that I I can't bring myself to buy yeah because I've watched him shoot it. And when he describes to me the mechanism of how you make it fire

and what you have to do to make it not fire as your drawing so you don't lose your teeth, it doesn't make sense. So I just like, I'll stick with this one that I hold on in my hand. Yeah. And then having said that, I've watched him shoot tack courses with that thing. I've watched him go hunting with that thing. It doesn't make, like, I know it rotates and it makes this click and then it's going to fire. Like, no.

Yeah. I can't do it. I'm not like, I've got our three hands and wrists at this point. Shocker. So like, yeah, so like trying to draw and like kind of twerk my wrist a little bit to the, to the thump side to make sure that it doesn't fucking go off and I punch myself in the face. Yeah, like maybe one day we'll get to it. I don't think so.

Yeah, we'll see. What I enjoy about Dud is his collection of, I was going to say archery mistakes, but I'm going to call them archery learning moments that he has throughout his. his property. I have a buddy, Jack Carr, the author. When we come back to the house

tonight, I'll show you his arrow that's in the tree. First shot out. Target was at 20. His bow was at like 60. He's just sitting there. It was made by Dud too. He's just like,

like just sails. He pulled on that thing, maybe like once or twice. I'm going to say for 15 minutes. He just didn't have the strength and any portion of his body to get it out of the tree is what I think. But then there's Dud's house.

Yeah. You got one there, Mr. Mendez, listen to the podcast, but yeah. He's got one. A buddy of mine who I shall remain nameless, but his name might be Jason, has one in the roof from the apex of the roof from, you know, maybe sky drawing and not understanding the safety as well. Yeah. You know, I mean, not that it makes it any better that I shot his door, but he shot his door too. So I didn't hear that part of the story. Yeah, there's another hole in that door. Um, but,

but his wasn't live. So. That it didn't happen. Yeah, it didn't have. Were you there when it happened? No. Okay. No, yeah, that was like probably a while ago. And it just, it disappeared from the knock on archives.

Because as it should, you know, like. At the house I had before the one I live in, there was a basement. And in the wintertime here, obviously gets a little bit cold. So I figured I could just take one of those bag targets and put it next to the TV. And if I went early in the morning and, like, put some chairs up against the stairs that people would potentially come down at while I'm at full draw and stood in the bathtub. I could get 18 yards. I thought the bag would stop it.

Sent one arrow. I'm like, that sounded a little bit harder than a bag. And it was about two inches into the drywall. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. So I just moved everything and moved a picture over there and carried out. Listen, I, there have been a few more than I, you know, like, because they didn't happen live and they weren't shared or videoed.

Like, yeah, I blew up a wine bottle in my basement. I did the same thing, was having my site set too high and punched a hole through my metal door going into my garage shooting at, like, I mean, feet, not even yards, right? Like, like 12 feet. Yeah. And, yeah.

When you watch somebody drawback and they have like a 20-yard shot, but you can see that they're dialed. on 80. Do you say anything? It depends on if they're in my house. Outside. It's just a normal target. Would you say anything? Oh, no. Yeah, 100% not.

Even more than that, I'm just like, yeah. Yeah. If it's like my kid or my wife and I like paid for the arrows, then I would say something. Yeah, yeah. If there's no risk to anybody but a high potential of my entertainment, I'm not saying, I might actually pull the phone out. Yeah, I'd just be like, hold on a sack. Oh, this is going to be a good one. Yeah, fuck. Archery is so fun but so frustrating. I found it through Rogan of all things. Rogan is the one who connects me with Dudley.

Dudley and I, I think we've told this story. We had to meet twice because we were so drunk the first time that we barely... Sounds about right. We were with Joe. We were in Vegas. It was at shot years ago. And I had... I got a bow before I knew.

Dudley because I had been on Joe's show and he talks about archery like it's the best thing ever and I finally texted him and I'm pretty sure the exact text was is archery as cool as you describe it or is this just two dudes jerking each other off at a tree stand he's like no man it's awesome and so there's a Bob Fromm has an awesome archery shop in San Diego right by Miramar performance archery and when in there I'm just like I need old things and then I ended up I think I just bought like probably close to five grand worth of Sitka

about a week later found out that John Barclow works for Sykla. You know how I found out fucking Barkle works for Sica? I was on their website trying to figure out their product and his face pops up on a video and I was like I know that motherfucker yeah and it had his email and so I was like click and I like hey fuckface was the subject line

and then we reconnected after like 20 years because they took me to the ATA as well which is the awesome archery trade show of America, I think. And yeah. And I was shooting a wristrap in my backyard, put far too many arrows in our neighbor's yard, in a subdivision of East Lake, California. Expressly prohibited shooting projectiles of any kind. And we had just moved to Montana, and I had got a silverback.

Because, again, Joe was talking about silverbacks. I'm like, well, obviously, this is the GM. Go to Vegas. I was at Chachow doing something with one of the industry partners. I forget what Joe was there. Oh, he was there because he was with a camp. They were doing a podcast at the UA booth. I'm like shooting craps at Caesars.

And Joe walked by, I'm like, what's up, fucker? He's like, oh, dude, let's go to dinner. So I'm like, all right. Sitting at dinner with, I think it was the Under Armour crew. To this day, I feel like they hate me. Because I will take responsibility for the quality and quantity of the drinks that we were ordering. and there was a lot. So Dudley comes down

and he had been at some other party but I mean, apparently we met each other that night and then got reconnected later on but he is, I say this every time I talk about him, the most generous person on the face of planet with his time and his knowledge and I watched him at the most recent tack where Leah, my fiance

is letting down her bow and I didn't realize that it was actually that angular specific on letting down because I think as it was, was coming down. She either just pulled it in, you know what I mean? She just off centered it. And holy, it didn't. And the cable jumped over. And I have only, I've heard that happen. I've never watched it. And I was like, oh, shit, that might be broken. But I know where a guy is. You probably fix this. So we got on the thing and went down. And I watched him guys shooting different bows.

He didn't care like what their shirt and hat was or that stuff. He's like, yeah, do this. Moving peeps around retying stuff. He fixed Leo in like 20 minutes. Yeah. With dental floss, a lighter and a t-shirt that he would put over his head so he could make sure he was burning it properly goes out to the rain, shoots into the dead center of a 50-cent piece sticker and he's like, here you go. Like fuck man. Yeah.

Yeah, he's the best. I was there one year previously and I don't remember why, but he was standing in the back of a sled. It was like a team evolution and somebody was pulling him along as he was shooting clay pigeons. And he's still hitting them. Yeah. Yeah.

It was a it's been a journey. The things I've seen him do with the bow like in his backyard. It's like just. Yeah, it's it disgusts me if I'm being honest. That level of mastery is it's rare to be around. But and he was my, like first time I ever went hunting was, I got a very crash course course in bow hunting. He'd just like get in my hip pocket. I'm like, yeah, Roger that.

Which I don't know if you've ever walked a long distance with him. Oh yeah. I'm a lot shorter than you. You're not a lot short than me. You're a little shorter than me. Your average height for a woman. Yeah, thanks you. Yeah.

Yeah, you know, but I've had to run behind him. It's terrible. It is. Yeah. And seeing him move, like when we went on that pig hunt, like he's like sprinting. Oh, he doesn't tell you. He just goes. There's a dust.

He's just like, come on. It looks like a cartoon, like the cartoon character where there's just these giant long legs. And it's like, how the hell is he covering ground so fast? Dude, my first hunting trip with him was in Canada, and he's clearing deadfall that's like up to my hip joint in a normal stride. After that first day, I thought my hip flexors had just detonated because I'm sitting there like full on like leg coming up and over. And he's just like, dink to dunk to dunk. Yeah, it was a had more fireball that trip than I've ever had in my entire life. It was good.

Archery's been awesome. It is, I think it's similar to jiu-jitsu for me. I love it because it's so challenging and I don't think you could ever master it. Yeah. And it just takes one moment of like, I am so good at this. Yeah. Fuck!

Yes, indeed. Yeah. There goes the door or there goes to your elbow. Yeah. Or a nice bruise on your arm or, yeah. Yeah, it sucks when you're hucking $20 bills downrange. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

UFC. So are you the oldest fighter in the UFC or did I make that up this morning on the social media post? You made that up. Yeah. Yeah, you made that up. It's all right. As Indiana Jones said, it's not the years. It's the miles.

Yeah. There are actually quite a few guys are a bit older than me. There are guys in my division that are older than me. It's just I've been around a lot fucking longer than most of them. What do you equate that to? Luck, dumb luck. You know, like, the only bone that I've ever broken is, like, I chipped my sinus. being on the receiving end of something.

Yeah, yeah. Like, yeah, that's, I got need in the face. And, uh, I, knock on wood. Never had a, never had a surgery. So, like, I was kind of made for this shit, I think. Well, I mean, you're at 40 fights right now, right? 40 will be the next one, yeah. In the UFC.

And where does that rank upon, you know, amongst other UFC fighters? That's the, I've got the, uh, the record at 39. Okay. So now at this point, you're just building on it. Who's the next closest? Donald Seroni is, I think, two behind, two, yeah, two behind me. Is he still fighting, or does he, is he on a little bit of a hiatus?

He's fighting Joe Lozahn, I think in May. Okay. He's had a tough run the last couple of fights. Yeah. You know, and it's, it sucks. It's tough because it's like, I don't want to look at the day where I'm like, hey, I'm not fighting anymore, you know, like. it's going to be hard, but I'm also the type like, like once I decide something, I kind of just go to it, you know?

Yeah. So I don't want to, you know, say anything about what he should do. You know, I know that he's had talks with Dana about, you know, possibly this being his last one and stuff like that. And, you know, it's a, it's a tough game because you get to a point where damage starts to happen. and he's got young kids and he's doing other shit like um you know like he's he's in movies and he's got you know he does some like cowboy shit yeah yeah it's like racing uh like off-road shit uh you know razors and shit like that the side by sides um you know he's doing a lot of cool shit um and i'm sure there's that i know that there's that voice in him that's like

i fucking love to fight i know that i can compete with anybody in the world. It's just like as you get older, because he's a little bit older than me. How old are you? 38. I think he's maybe like eight months older than me. I think he might have just turned 39, something like that.

You know, is a juice worth of squeeze. It's like, you know, I know that I can compete with anybody in the world too. It's like on it, you know, it's just a given night. It's, I have a lot more bad days. at 38 than I did at 28, you know? As we all do. I mean, yeah.

So, and when you're like going into the gym and fucking beating the shit out of each other, like, you notice it a lot more. It's very easy to say, like, hey, today's a bad day, you know? And that's one of the fucking hardest things about the sport is that, like, you don't want to be the guy that, like, I don't really feel like smart today. Right? Like that's the, that's the hardest part is controlling your ego. Yeah.

And, like, I think one of the worst things about MMA is these, like, giant camps, right? Like, so you have this just stable of bad motherfuckers. And, you know, you might be at the top. But that's on a good day. And, like, you've got these guys below you that, I mean, some of them, some of them know, the game and like hey you know I'm here to be a training partner I'm here to get my work in he's helping me and like we have a respectful thing and um but then sometimes it's like hey I want to try to make a fucking name I want my day in the sun yeah and it's like it's stupid because nobody

nobody's gonna see it pal like but you still have to deal with it and is that a common trajectory for a fighter though if as you're coming up before you are the person under the lights you're helping other people as you're gaining experience kind of train for their fights um kind of sort of sort of a lot of the a lot of the ways that it works is like you you i try to get my guys like hey you come up into the classes and then like once you get to the point where you can come to like pro grappling so we're just grappling with strikes like all right you know and and like me as you know the the the guy on the mat right like if it's my training session I'm going to do what I need to do.

I'm not hurting anybody, but I'm also protecting myself. You're prioritizing your training. Yeah, as you should. Exactly. You know, so that's what makes it really hard because, like, in boxing, you have a lot of these really small groups. And it's like you've got a couple trainers and you bring in and you pay sparring partners to come in. Where MMA, everybody's kind of training for their own shit. So, like, to ask a guy that's, you know,

a month out of a fight, hey, can you stand Southball for me? And, you know, my guy doesn't keep his hands up that often. Can you drop your hands for me? Like, it's hard. I think, like, I came from a decent-sized camp. It wasn't, like, anywhere near some of the big ones, but we had a really good stable guys. We didn't have a lot of injuries. We trained really well.

I think we had six guys in the UFC at one time. You know, and New Jersey. Jersey like it's for whatever fucking reason like there's a decent amount of good fighters that come out of it. Is that because people are just so angry living there? Oh yeah like it's just you know everybody's pissed off like you know it's like what else are we going to do beat the shit out of each that's what like I've got the highest chance getting pancreatic cancer in the fucking country like fuck I'm going to take it out on somebody uh for whatever reason right like I mean I'm not going to say that it's a toughness thing because they're fucking tough motherfuckers everywhere.

But like New Jersey always does well in wrestling too. But we had its great core guys. But the issue that we had is we never really used each other the best way. Right. Like if I had a, you know, I had a college, you know, all-American. It's like, well, why am I, you know, going, sparring hard with them all the time? Like, I should just be fucking wrestling. this guy. Like if I'm fighting a wrestler or I'm trying to get my wrestling better, I should be

focusing on wrestling with him, you know, and like, oh, well, I've got, you know, I'm fighting a tall lanky lefty, like when I was fighting Nate Diaz. I had some guys that could mimic, you know, stand lefty, like my brother could stand lefty about the same height. I think 6-1 is Nate, Dan 6-1, Dan can stand lefty, throw punches. It's like, no, no, we're going to you're just going to go with these other guys who are lefties, but it's like I had a karate guy who was my height, and then I had a 205 pounder who was not a very good striker. And it's like, what the fuck am I doing this? You know, like this, like, it doesn't make any sense. And, and, you know, like, that's, that was the toughest part about is that we didn't, we didn't utilize everybody's skill set because, like, you get this, this pool and size and shapes and talents.

And, like, it should really be about using it the best. way you can and not just, hey, smash each other together, right? Like, everybody always says the iron sharpens iron thing. And it's like, well, you don't, you're not going to take your fucking knife and smash it against your tomahawk to get them ready to use in fucking battle. I was going to say, you know, iron can sharpen iron, but it also can make it really, really dull if you apply it improperly at the wrong angles. Yeah.

So, like, the way that I look at it is like, okay, well, you know, you need to, you need to use them to, like, hone your skills, right? Like, get a little cheesy with it. and like, I mean, a good coach, good trainer is going to help you really hone those skills, but, like, they're usually not the best, like, live partner. So, like, when you get to that level where you're, like, the wrestling coach or the jitsu coach or the striking coach, like, you're not going, you're not sparring hard with that guy because usually they're a little bit older.

Yeah, they've been through the fucking. shit. So like it's like ceramic stone. Like it's hard as shit, you know, but it's a little bit fragile too. You bang it up a little bit, it's going to break. So like I moved to a smaller you know, well, a bigger

gym, but smaller team. You know, in 2014 opened up my own place and yeah, kind of like tried to tighten things up a little bit. It's still difficult. It's still really hard to like use everybody. you know, like me as the UFC fighter, you know, I've got a bunch of, you know, pro fighters.

I've got some really talented guys that could make it to the next level. But it's a very tight group and like they all want me to do well and I want them to do well. And I'll all go in and try to be the best training partner. Like if they're gearing up for a fight, it's like, hey, man, like I'm going to, I'm going to do what you need me to do. Right? Like I'm not going to let you give me fucking brain damage, but like I'm going to do what you need me to do. if you notice somebody's fucking gassed out and it's like it's there around well i'm gonna let you work i'm not gonna be the guy that like takes advantage of it and like beats the shit out of them

and like you know because you don't you don't get paid if you don't get to the fight so like you got to you got to you got to fucking be smart with it and like i think i was the tangent that i just went off on i think i was talking about like honing it or pulling it back right yeah um like those bad days you've got to be able to like tone it down and say like okay well I'm not doing you know I'm not rolling for an hour today I'm gonna get like five rounds in or whatever I'm gonna listen to my body and as I've gotten older it's a lot easier to do that yeah like I consider myself pretty coachable and like if a coach says to do something I do it but that coach has to also be able to read me and be like hey today's not the day like it's supposed to be the hard day

Yeah. But today's not the day. So, you know, that's, like, that's, it's a, it's a tough fucking thing when, like, you know, you've got, like, everybody trying to kill each other. It seems like a very delicate ecosystem that you have to kind of balance and a lot of things to balance, whether it's rest and recovery, a little ego perhaps. It's got to be there. With a lot, yeah.

I wouldn't imagine. Nobody's going to get it to the apex of anything without having a little bit of an ego. You know, it's not a bad thing. It's when ego gets out of a lot. control that it's a bad thing. When you were growing up, did you want to be a fighter? Of course. I mean, you, people may not know your wrestling background, which is ridiculous and disgusting. Not really. But I mean, wrestlers, there's plenty of wrestlers that never go and actually start striking each other. Yeah. Before we even get into that, damn it, I said we were going to open

with talking about wrestling and we didn't. Okay. Please explain to me how somebody wins a wrestling match. All right. Because like I have described, I watch it on YouTube, and at some point in time, somebody jumps up and they have their hands in the air, and I can't figure out, I mean, to a degree, I'm like, obviously you're trying to wrestle, but where are the points? How do you win? Okay.

Now, we need to go into what type of wrestling. There's collegiate wrestling, scholastic wrestling, which is, excuse me, what they do in college. Okay. Right. And then there's what's in the Olympics, which you have freestyle wrestling, and you've got Greco-Roman. What are they doing in, like, high school? High school is scholastic and collegiate. So the scoring is a little bit different, right?

So if you start on your feet, you take somebody down, you get control of them, you get two points for take time. Do they establish control based off of the amount of time you can, like, is there, you got to hold it for a second or two? Not really. It's like basically getting behind someone. Okay. So you're working to their back. Yeah, yeah. So if you get to that position, you get your two back points.

In college, they have riding time. So once you take somebody down, a clock starts going, and it'll go, you know, goes forward and reverse. And if you have over a minute of riding time, you get one point at the end of the match. Okay. If you turn somebody into their back, the ref's going to start counting. Once they get to two, you get two points. And then they're going to go three, four, five. They get to five, and it's three points.

for a time there I think and maybe like New Jersey kind of screwed some shit up they were giving four back points if they got to six which it really didn't seem like it did anything to me but typically it's once they get to two two points once they get to five three back points and that's just for back exposure so like you get to you get to 90 and if you're in like a pinning move and you start to lean somebody and they they start to expose the back then the ref's going to start counting if you escape if somebody's on your back

and you stand up and you turn and you break away and you break contact, then you're going to get one point escape. If you reverse somebody, you get two points. So it's a points game. It's a points game, and then there's the pins, right? So when it comes to points, it's eight points. If you win by eight points or more, it's a major decision. If you at any point get to 15 points ahead of somebody, it's called a technical fall.

and the match stops right there. And then... Also known as the mercy rule. Yeah, essentially. Yeah. In freestyle, it's 10 points for the mercy rule. And then if you pin somebody, which is basically just controlling them to their back and putting both shoulder blades to the mat, then ref slaps the mat. How many rounds could a match potentially go?

It's three rounds with overtimes. So you'll have the first overtime will be like a minute from your feet. First points win. and then then they'll go to the second overtime and it'll be like flip of a coin person down

you know gets to pick and then like either the person that rides it out wins or the person if the person that picks down they get out they win yeah how long in the rounds the first three

uh in college it's three minutes two minutes two minutes I feel like that's a lot of high intensity oh it's the fucking worst thing ever it's for me it was always the best Like, because it's a, it's a seven minutes sprint. Yeah, but short periods of time like that.

Oh, yeah. Like, if you, I'm sure you've done this. You put 10 minutes on a clock for a jih Tjitzy round, very casual pace. Yeah. If you put two minutes on the clock, it's a wood chipper. It's the same thing. Yeah, it's the same thing with like striking. Like you, I watch like the kickboxing.

And it's like three threes. It's like, it's vacation rounds. That's what I tell my tie coach. And it's like, I mean, the guys that are fighting in, like, if you're fighting a five minute round, you go with a different. then you go at a three minute round. A three minute round, it's like, hey, fuck it. Yeah.

Yeah. But, yeah, like seven minutes is, it's a, it's a long time. How long, in between rounds? As short as it takes. Man, so they can just reset and go. Yeah, yeah. And that's, that's kind of, that was always my, my technique was, I was usually the, the better conditioned athlete.

So I was the one, like, we go out of bounds. I'm running back to the, to the center of that. Matt and making you, like, making everybody in the fucking room wait on you to stroll your ass back, you know, and like, in between rounds, I'm picking, you know, whatever, and I'm going right to it. Just to keep pushing the pace and getting somebody's head. Yeah, yeah. Just keep that consistent pressure. Yeah, yeah. And that's kind of like the, I told you I was going to talk about, like, this might get me in trouble talking about Dan Gable.

So I'm not incredibly familiar. Well, obviously, I'm not familiar with wrestling at all. don't understand the points. Yeah. I'm assuming Mr. Gable is a legendary figure in America Wrestling. Yeah, like the legend, right? He went, I don't know what his record was in college, but the only time he ever lost in college

was in the finals, his senior year. Lost to a sophomore, I think. I love him. I love the attitude, I do. And then he got into coaching, and I feel like, like the thing is is not everybody is capable of that

like they're they're very there's a vast majority of different like kinds of wrestlers there there are guys that are out there just to score points and win by one point which you can't I can't knock on

you know um you're talking about different types of strategies yeah like strategies and what you're kind of doing uh my game was always I want to pin you as fast as I can like and if if I tech fall somebody I was pissed

because that means I turned into their back and I didn't pin them like That's like having somebody in the choke and them getting out. Like, fuck that. I want to, I want to assert my dominance. There's the ego. Like, I want to assert my fucking dominance over somebody. So, like, Gable, again, again, all the wrestlers out there.

I love the guy. But, like, his, I don't know if it was his coaching style or if it was wrestlers trying to be him. That couldn't be him. I feel like it created a bit of like a toxic atmosphere and and like a resentment because I ended up wrestling for one of Gable's guys. One of the coaches that Gable. Yeah, one of his like first. Okay. One of his first guys that ended up being a two-time runner up in Nationals.

And at 50 something years old, that asshole still fucking like hated himself for it. And he took it out on us. What do you mean? Just, he was a prick. He was a fucking prick. Like, yeah, like, there are. His personality was that as an asshole. Yeah, and like, I mean.

Even like out of the, like the gym setting? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and I mean, honestly, there are, there are a lot of, there are a lot of wrestling coaches that are assholes. And I feel like it's kind of because of like, you know, something.

It has something to do with that. But then you've got like Kail Sanderson on the opposite side, who coach is for Penn State now, was the winning, you know, he went undefeated in college. Like the Penn State room, it's fun. They train hard, they wrestle hard, and they have fun. And they're fucking around, they're playing dodgeball, they're doing this shit, they're doing that shit.

And these student athletes are enjoying their time. like I wrestled at Virginia Tech for one year and like I learned a lot because I went from a room of you know like in high school and like I wrestled I wrestled some good guys in like club wrestling and stuff like that but like my my high school team there were some good good guys but they really wouldn't wrestle me at practice because I'd beat them and they couldn't handle it and then I went to a room that was full of state you know four time state champs here. Just killers. Yeah. And it was like, I got so much better so quickly. And then I did learn a few things from, you know, my coaches, but like, they were pricks. And like, I had an opportunity to, as a walk on freshman to make nationals.

And like, I got thumped in my head, got a little bit of a concussion. And like, I just need a little support. You know, I needed a coach. And, yeah, they're out at the bar hanging out. and I'm sitting there in a room ball by myself trying to cut weight so I could if I could make weight the next morning, you know, like wobbled on the bike. And it's like, trainer walks in and looks at me,

he's like, yeah, get the fuck out of here. Like, you're done. And I had, you know, I had a path. I had a path that I could have made it. If I had, like, somebody that I call it coach. You know, and it's a, it sucks. It sucks that, like, that that's kind of the way that it is. like yeah there's just this I don't know there's just a lot of pricks and I don't know what

maybe it's maybe it's that maybe it's trying to live up to that like that mentality because I mean gable was a psychopath you have to fucking realize that he's he's a fucking psychopath because his idea was to wrestle as hard as he could until he fucking collapsed like that's what he wanted he wanted to wrestle so hard and get pushed so hard that he would fucking pass out and I I love that I fucking love it like you know

like I feel like I've I've been on the verge of that a few times in fights you know like I've I've had I've had to be picked up by my brother at the end of a fight

I've I've I fucking practically like lay down oh I did lay down on Joe Loza on the first time we fought like I've

I've pushed myself to the point where I've been you know puking in the shower and have the doctors and commission looking at me. I'm like fetled up in the shower, naked, puking my brains out.

I've, like... It's not a good look, Jim. It's not a good look. It's not a good look, but it means that I went as hard as I could go, right? Yeah. And the way that I look at is like, if I'm going to sacrifice my time,

my body, my time away from my family, I'm going to give everything I got in there. But the thing about me, like I don't ask any of my fighters to fight like me. Like, I will not ask. Like, be smart, you know, be like, because I'm not a technical guy. I, it's all about the basics and doing them at a pace that most people can't keep up with.

Like, that's what I do. That's the Jim Miller blueprint. And call that the full back dive. Like, literally, yeah, fucking just hammer it. Yeah, just hammer it. Right? And it's worked. You know, it worked in most cases.

You know, it's failed me a few times. But, like, I don't want my guys to, you know, to have to do that shit. Like, well, it works for you. May not work for other people. Exactly. Exactly. I hate broad applications. Like, this works for everyone.

It's like, yeah, I don't think so. And, you know. Which is similar to that kind of like chip on the shoulder asshole coach. That actually really might motivate some people, but it's incredibly off-putting to others. And they probably would lose a lot of high-level athletes, because of that. I mean, that's the thing, too,

is, like, you look at, you look at what wrestling is, and, like, you get to that point, that college wrestling point, right? And that's,

that's what, you know, the kind of asshole coaches I'm talking about. It's like, you know, high school, they're a lot better. But,

yeah, it's just, like, there is no, like, you've got a kid there that's, they're potentially on scholarship, and you've got somebody that's,

like, not there to help them. Is, like, is kind of just being an asshole. because he might have a chip on his shoulder or this or that. Position of power to. Yeah.

And like you're just you're just driving this shit home. And like it's not it's not like a selection or something like we're like, oh, you've got this massive group and you can, you know, weed them out. And that's what you're looking to do. You know what though? Even in the selection world, the asshole that yells is the easiest to tune out. Yeah. It's the quieter, casual. get in your head and scramble some fucking eggs.

Yeah. Dude that you have to worry about. That's actually so much more effective than yelling at somebody. But like who teaches you better, right? The quieter guy. Yeah. Yeah. And that should be the goal, right?

You've got these kids. Well, the goal should be a multi-tool. Yeah. Because you're probably going to, if you have 12 kids to coach, you're probably going to need three or four different coaching styles. Because if you go with just one, you'll have the bell curve right and they'll lose, you know, both ends of those. But I don't know.

There's a role for a hammer, but there's also truth too. If you live your life as a hammer, everything looks like a nail. It's true. So I don't know. I remember. I got more people to quit by being quiet than being loud. Settles you guys. You just talk to them and just invade their thoughts.

Yeah. And turn them on themselves. But like that's the thing though. It's like you're not, you don't have this pool of 60 guys or whatever. You've got like 20 and you need a lineup. So like that's the thing though. The goal shouldn't be necessarily weeding them out. Yeah.

It should be making them all better. I would assume in a college team, if they're even going to get on the college team, the weeding out has probably occurred. Then you got to sharpen the blade and actually develop your team. Yeah. At some point you, and this was something that you would see or that I saw when I was a Bud's instructors, there's like these classic archetypes of like the yellow. You know, and the way that I approached it was at some point in training, we should probably realized that these young kids, which is what most of them are, will be working with us in the future if you leave your instructor role and go back to one of the operational teams. So, yes, we'll hold

them to a high standard, the same standard that we got held to. Yes, we will fuck with them mercilessly, even when they do things that are correct. But we need to also teach and coach them because they are the future. And like, let's also not forget that we went through this program. and like we think we're pretty awesome. So maybe the program works and maybe we can pass that forward a little bit. And that's what I think ended up happening is like you had this, you had like Gable with his, and it might not be his coaching style.

I don't even know if it's coaching style, right? It might have just been. Is he still alive? Yeah. Okay. It might have just been that like the guys that wrestled underneath him want to do accomplish the same things that he accomplished. And like they just felt that pressure.

But it kind of seemed like it had. this like trickle down and now it's yeah like hey my coach was an asshole so i need to be an asshole was gable an effective coach yeah yeah he was and i asked that because if that was his coaching style it's very easy to see how people would want to emulate that and think that that's the answer yeah um when in reality could be a combination of things yeah yeah it's uh coaching is a privilege. It should be treated as such. Do you even remember when you got into wrestling or did you just have singlets since you were born? Yeah, pretty much. Because your wrestling is disgusting. No, it's not. No, in like a good way. What is in a comparison to my understanding? In a normal jih Tjitsu class, my wrestling is yeah. But like, I was like an okay high school wrestler. Like better than average, right? Did your brother wrestle too? Yes. Yeah. I, I, I have two older brothers we all wrestled and all different like styles, right? Like my, my oldest brother, Michael, was very technical, but also the least athletic.

Dan was a bit, you know, a lot more athletic. But like he never, he never like took it as seriously as I did. It's not like I took it super seriously, but like I did a little bit extra work in conditioning. and I did a little bit extra work in the technical aspects of it. So, like, we were different wrestlers. But, yeah, like, Michael, he started wrestling with probably, you know, six or seven. And it's like, you know, my dad was there coaching, so I was there, you know, at, like, three on the mat, you know, rolling around. you know some of my earliest memories are of wrestling and and it's like I was a super late bloomer

like you know puberty hit me like towards the end of high school you know 24 yeah yeah um so like my my biggest weapon had always been my physicality but I wasn't a physical kit You know, like I was strong. I was a strong kid because I was like working, you know, framing houses with my dad. So you're carrying shit. And like, you know, we used to just like climb trees and just do little boy shit. So like I was physical and I'm a good hugger. Like I've always, you give me a bench press or anything where I have to like push stuff away.

I'm not very good at it. But pulling things in, like that's what I was made to do. So like I made a lot of mistakes as a kid coming up like trying to be the well-rounded wrestler and stuff like that where like I finally like kind of learned some of that shit as I got older like, hey, just focus on what you're good at and have a couple different options. But like, you know, as the athlete, the repertoire doesn't have to be that big. As a coach it does. You know, you want to have an encyclopedia if you're coaching people. but, you know, as a kid, you know, as an athlete, it's like, I need, I need a couple things. If you could be world class at one or two things.

Yeah. Like, you know, that giant Swiss Army knife that's got all those tools in it, like, the thing sucks. It's mediocre at every task. Yeah, like less than mediocre. So, yeah, I finally, you know, kind of figured that out. And I've had to change the way that I wrestle. I was, you know, like when I started fighting, I would shoot a lot of single legs, being a lefty, fighting a lot of righties, that lead leg was always there.

And then I got punched in the face a bunch doing it when I wrestled or I fought a really good wrestler. So I decided to, you know, scrap that. And we never did that again. So, yeah. And then it's like, you know, you deal with some neck injuries and stuff like that. So it's like, yeah, I don't blast double like I used to. But now I do a lot more clinch stuff and foot sweeps and off balances and it just opens things up. But it's like I try to, I try to be a student when it's time to be a student.

And, you know, we were talking about like the different mindsets. And like sometimes I'm in the coaching mindset. And that's, you know, I'm there to help people. Like I'm not trying to prove myself, you know, on the mat because I know that it doesn't fucking matter and I also I get paid a lot of money to do it inside the octagon. So like that's when I'm proving myself. Yeah. And then I've got like when I'm when I'm trying to go when I'm trying to get better and you know like the when I'm trying to get my good rounds and stuff like that.

So and when I find that I'm my best man, it's elevator music up here. It's like you know there's there's really no thought going on. It's all kind of feel. And like that's when I'm at my most dangerous. Can you consciously get yourself there? I can. It's hard. It's really hard.

I really try not to do it when I'm sparring because that's when guys get hurt, unfortunately. Yeah. You know, there have been a couple occasions where like somebody goes on college during training and it's like, what did you do? And it's like, I don't even know. Like I was in La La Land, you know? Yeah. So like when I'm hitting pads, I try to, I try to like, you know, I get those first

couple rounds in, get the, you know, get my lungs blown out. And then it's like I try to like kind of really psych myself up, get into the zone. And when my, when my tie coach starts like throwing stuff at me, then, yeah, it turns on. And it's easier to do nowadays, which is awesome. because you have more of a history of being able to do it, you think? You've taught yourself? Yeah, I've taught myself to do it. And I learned that, like, I'm more dangerous there, right?

It's like... You were saying last night, actually, that you would get earlier on in your career, you'd get amped up and you'd have what you would describe as pretty intense tunnel vision. Yeah. And you were less effective. Yeah. I mean, I still get it to a degree, right? Like, I've had one fight where, like, I've had one fight where, like, you're, like, you're, like,

I could see outside the cage. And that was when I was, like, really sick. And, but, like, every other fight, like, I mean, when, it might be environmental, too, right? The house lights go down. Oh, the change lights goes on. Oh, the trade lights goes on. You can still see. You can.

But, like, my vision goes, like, on that guy across from me. That's it. And, I mean, sometimes I could be, like, feet from my corner and not hear them. Even the fights at the apex, my first couple of fights with no crowd. Completely bizarre situation going from like 20,000 people to fighting in front of nobody. It was cool as somebody who was watching. Yeah, and you like you hear everything. Not only could you hear everything, you could hear the coaching.

I couldn't. Fighting. Really? I couldn't. Nope. Do you ever, like if you ever end up on the cage by the announcers, do you ever hear like Joe commentating you and just can look over and be like, hey, Joe, shut the fuck up. I've heard, I heard Michael Bisbing the one time.

The one I abandoned it. Yeah, yeah. But like, and then some of my earlier fights, I've heard my mom scream. Yeah, very distinct, you know, moms scream. I can hear it. But like, other than that, it's like, I don't even, you know, I don't even hear a lot. You're that locked in. Yeah.

Like this last fight was actually. kind of different in that I was able to hear my corner throughout the fight. But yeah, it's like everything kind of, you know, focused in. I was getting myself super ramped up and but then I wasn't like adapting, you know, and so I lost a couple of fights where I was like, man, like, why didn't I, why didn't I adjust? Why don't you read the terrain? Yeah. And, and, you know, it's like square peg, round hole, square peg round hole and just, just hammering it in. Um, but, Because it worked. It worked, you know, so many times leading up to that.

And then it's like, hey, it's not working. And I didn't change. And then it's like, I remember, like, I came out to a different song in one fight. And I just had this little bit different, like, mentality. And it was against, what the hell fight was that? UFC 162, I think it was, when I fought Fabricio Camos, fucking 30. degree black belt at the time like one of the highest you know ranking jiu jizu guys to ever fight in the octagon and it's like he's fresh and i arm bar him like from my guard with an entry that i had

never trained or drilled before it just we got into a position where the arm bar was it's like hey my body felt that there was an arm bar there and it's like i lock it in and you know it's like how that's fucking awesome that is awesome and again i'm three years and change into jiu-jitsu. And I think the odds of me pulling that off on somebody, like I was telling, like, people wear black belts, and at some point you're like, I don't even, I don't fucking care, you have all the stripes.

Yeah. And a lot of people would think that it would be impossible to catch somebody like that because of their experience. I think when you throw punching people in the face into that, it's not that it changes the game. I think it gives you more room to maybe hit things like that. Because if it was purely jihitsu, and you guys weren't trying to beat the shit out of each other?

It would have been different. I think it would have been different because you would have been fully focused on that jujitsu mindset. 100%. I had a shitty rubber guard that I was floundering with. And, you know, my coach, we drill it a lot, and it's like, it comes out sometimes, but it's one of those things that I should try to set aside

during fight time. And I have a tough time doing it sometimes. I've gotten a lot better at it. like setting it aside and I've gotten better at the rubber guard but um so I was doing the shitty rubber guard and he threw a punch and it just it opened up the side it was just right and it was just like you know my body fell into the arm bar and it was like as soon as I threw my legs up I was like this thing's mine like he can't go in he can't go out like his arm is just a bear trap yeah like because there is a point where it gets so deep that it's like there you can't do anything

pal yeah you're that place like well time to reset yeah and so then that was like holy shit like like i that was awesome like we need to we need to find that mindset you know and like yeah flow state right uh a lot of words for it yeah like it's that like you know uh relaxed urgency yeah you know it's like a heightened sense of awareness it uh it can be taken getting amped up can be taken too far yeah and I've watched it happen

and I've had it happen to me overseas where something incredibly exciting for the good or bad will happen you get so you get tractor beamed into it and it's just you know looking through night vision goggles is like straws anyway

and then cut that in half you're really situationally aware you're just fucking looking straight ahead and you have to be able to recognize that and then pull it back yeah you I want to have that heightened sense of awareness, but you can also make really bad decisions if you take that too far. Yeah.

And I don't know if people have to experience that to understand that, but yeah, it's a fine line. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because if your plan's not working, you're like, well, I'm just going to try again. Yeah. The more application of pressure. Yeah, it doesn't, you know.

That makes sense. And it makes sense that you're finding more success with that with the more experience that you have because, I mean, I remember the first time I got shot at, I'm like, well, you know, I guess I'll be looking at this point zero zero one percent. of the world. So much other shit was going on. And then later on in a career, I mean, I worked with some people that I consider to just be absolute legends.

And the world could be falling apart around them. They're just like, not that they were actually smoking, but that was kind of like their mentality. One of them did, which I still don't understand. But just cool, calm and collected. And they were able to work their way through the most complex situations with absolutely lethal consequences, just no problems whatsoever. Yeah.

they weren't asleep they weren't overdoing it but fuck man you get them into that area where it just like a little bit amped up and they're like oh yeah yeah making decisions yeah like i've i think it's about like clean consistent repetition you have to train yeah yeah i think you have to train to get yourself to that place as often as possible it's like anything else you're not going to get any better driving unless you drive a car yeah when did uh so you grew up where you're wrestling, when did you start thinking about fighting? As soon as I saw a blood sport. J.V.D.

Jean-Claude Van Damme. Yeah, kickboxer, probably some of the Seagall movies. Fuck that guy. I fucking hate Stephen Seagall. That dude, he's hot dogs without chewing. Yeah, he looks like it, too. Yeah, he does. Yeah, like, I mean, I grew up on that, those,

we all did. The cheesy 80 movies. Yeah. And, uh, side note, have you ever watched videos of Stephen Seagall running? Yeah, it's the worst thing ever. It's the worst. It's the worst. Unathletic.

There are so many actors. There's something going on with this. That can't run. Yeah. I love Harrison Ford. He can't fucking run. Really? He runs like a goof.

If you've ever seen it, like, uh, so, what is it? One of the Star Wars movies is like running. It's like, why'd they leave that in there? But, yeah, I don't know. They're not athletes. They're pretend people, right? Some of them are probably. Athletes?

I mean, maybe some of them. Yeah. I don't know. Kevin Hart, I think. He, Kevin Hart, I think, would look up to you. Physiologically. Yeah, you would. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, no. I grew up watching those movies. But you weren't, like you, so you did a year of Virginia Tech, you weren't fighting up until that point, right? No. It was just wrestling focused. Yeah, I always kind of wanted to do it. I at least wanted to, like, learn to strike.

and I went to school and like I was way too focused on wrestling and not focused enough on academics yeah the engineering program at Virginia Tech which is very good and in my downtime I would watch all the freaking videos you know downloading on Kaza and those other lime wire whatever the hell the other one was and like yeah and Every pride video, every UFC video I could watch. I was watching it. I was introduced to it at wrestling camp. Going into my eighth grade year, I went with my brothers and the high school team to wrestling camp.

And one of the coaches, my coach through high school, he brought like a VHS of UFC 3 maybe. And that was the first time I'd ever seen it. Were they still guise in that? They could, yeah, no gloves, like whatever the fuck they wanted. And, yeah, it was always kind of like in there. Like, man, I want to try it. I want to try it. And I took a little time off from school.

And my brother and I would just, like, if there was downtime at work, we would just beat the shit out of each other. What type of work were you doing? Construction. Okay. I'm sure your boss loved that. My dad, yeah. Oh, God. Yeah, I loved it.

There was one time that. We got into it for whatever reason, and I drop kicked him out of a dumpster. We were fighting in this dumpster that we were just throwing wood scraps in. So it had like a full sheet of plywood, and we're just wrestling around and stuff like that. And he like hopped up on the edge. And it was just like, I saw it. And I like ran across there and just double leg drop kicked him out. It was awesome.

for you yeah he ended up cutting his pinky up you know but that's what he gets for giving me the opportunity yeah so like we would

we were watching like every pride in UFC and then like we'd go to the the local school and like we were playing high pitch softball

and like we'd practice and play a little bit and then we'd just beat the shit out of each other and there'd be like like like Four or five, like 20-year-old, 21-year.

So you're basically just doing Fight Club. Essentially, yeah, yeah, but very public at that point, like, just on the side of the road. And, like, we were just rolling around and choking shit out of each other. And in 2005, May of 2005, we finally, like, looked up the nearest place that had an MMA team. And we say we mean you and Dan? Yeah, yeah, me and my brother. And we're like, fuck it. We got to do it.

We got to try. And this was like after the first ultimate fighter and stuff like that too. And so it was like really, you know, I remember watching that fight and like being like, shit, man. Like, I need to do this. So we walk into the gym, train the first day. There's subbing people out at first day, you know. And then we were banged the fuck up because neither was.

Neither one of us were in shape. And had to take like a week off. You know, the coach was probably like, ah, those motherfuckers, you know, they're in and out. One and done. Yeah, and then it was like every day, you know, like six days a week and then it turned to seven days a week. With the express desire like, hey, we want to fight professionally.

Like we walked in and said, you know, like after practice, we're like, we want to fight. And he's like, give me like two to three years. Had you been doing any jihitsu at this point? Or this was pure wrestling background. Wrestling background. Wrestling with watching shit and, you know, choking each other for fun. so we start training and this like the gym was like twice as long as this studio like

which is not big just as wide just as wide and twice as long uh so it was very small they had a couple guys that fought um and uh like we we started training and like you know we were training under a yeah i think he'd just been promoted to purple um but it was like strictly no gee and uh We did a graph, not Grappas Quest, Naga. And one of the, one of the two of the guys were fighting that weekend at the Battle of the Beach. And we went in, we did the grappling tournament and did well. And it was like a week later. Yeah, week later we got a bad agreement on our desk, you know, on the desk.

And it's like, hey, you're fighting. And so it was basically six months of the day, first day of jihitsu to first professional MMA fight, which is. So we're going to call that. an atypical progression. Yeah, very atypical. How the first fight go? Dan went out. Dan was, I think, the second

fight of the night. You guys were fighting on the same card too? Yeah, that's awesome. We did that too many times. He goes out and Triangle's Kid in like two minutes. And I remember, like, leading up to it, I didn't fucking sleep.

I'm like, I've been in one fucking street fight and it was stupid. And like, you know, like we once we got our fight then we started to train striking so we were taking

the cardio kickboxing class with all the ladies it's actually where I met my wife are you serious yeah that's awesome and so we were doing

a cardio kickboxing class but like we were so raw that like it's really all we needed so we go in he goes in he triangles the guy

and I remember being like just like laying an egg I was so nervous and I have always every time that Dan would fight I'd be like I'm so nervous and we're me fighting it's like

I have the control let's fucking go you know yeah like I get nervous I still get butterflies to this day yeah it's your brother though you're worried about it yeah it's so much worse and he triangles the guy and I remember like we're going back and I was he was the second fight I was a fourth fight so I'm out

there like warming up with him and then he goes and fights and I you know corner him and then I got to come back and you know finish my warm up so that I could fight I remember like catching myself skipping to the back and I was like fucking man it up Jim like and it was like all the weight had been lifted off my shoulders and I was like we can do this shit and uh I went out and I was I was fighting a really good grappler um the kid started training in jihitsu when he was like 10, you know, had one at like 14 was winning adult Naga's and stuff like that. Eddie Fivie, a really awesome guy. And it was a two, four-minute round fight.

And I beat him up and controlled him and won the eight-minute battle. And it was like, sign me up again. Let's do this shit. And it was just like, bang, bang, bang. fought six times in one year and one day. And pretty much every one of those, it was like Dan and I fighting on the same night. And yeah, like, so I fought like that year later, right?

I fought Frankie Eager. It was my sixth fight. And the gym that I was training at closed down like three weeks prior, something like that. And everybody kind of knew it was happening. So I had like no training partners leading up to that fight. It was pretty pathetic. Learned a valuable lesson around yourself with, you know, people that are going to be there for you. And care about your success.

Yeah. So go out have like, I've still never seen the fight with Frankie. I still remember it pretty well. And like for a few years, people would come up to me like, dude, that fight with Frankie was like epic. because we just we were back and forth you know like just banging it just banging it out yeah like uh it was uh it was a crazy fight actually i kicked him in the ear so it was like yeah so what a dick yeah well he punched me in the face a lot so uh so there were no there were no up kicks and no elbows okay um so he kept like taking me down and then he's just standing up in my guard

and I really didn't have like enough of an open guard and at that point if somebody's striking you too to not be able to like threaten with an upkick it's yeah there's no reason for them not to bend over at the waist and yeah and punch you yeah and that's what he did yeah um so like I remember it's like least you get to see it coming yeah so it was well almost almost didn't like uh I mean my eye was like

the after that like it was all all red and shit like that you know the whole blood shot yeah um but uh So third round comes out, and I'm thinking, like, I need to do something big here, you know. So I just rip a left high kick up there. And he's got crunchy little cauliflower ears. And, of course, I don't hit him in the chin and I don't hit him in the temple. I hit him right across the cheekbone and the ear. And I ripped his ear open and a piece of cauliflower, like the...

Coagulated blood? Yeah. Shot across the cage and, like, landed in front of one of the commissioners. and they like scooped it up and like his coach at the time, I think still has it in formaldehyde. And yeah, it was just a crazy fight. He ends up winning a decision.

And we knew that the winner of that was going to get their opportunity at the UFC. But then I was also at a point where like, I wasn't ready for the UFC because I didn't have a fucking team at that point. So it was kind of a blessing of disguise, you know. That was right before the, Ultimate Fighter 5, so that was the first lightweight season.

So it was like three weeks. So I went down, did the tryouts, you know, saw him there. Were they just have an open tryouts at that point? Yeah, yeah. So his ear was as black as your shirt. And my eye was as red as your Yeti cup. So I remember, like, I go up, we do the, like, a grappling round and I choked his kid unconscious. And, like, go to talk to the guys from Spike.

And they're like, what, uh, what happened to your eye? And I was like, I do this thing called MMA. It's kind of like human cockfighting. Like, the fuck do you think happened in my eye? I fought three weeks ago. Yeah, it was, uh, it was cool. But then, uh, found that, found the, you know, the new gym and, uh, got to start training under Jamie Cruz and, and, you know, still, still kept fighting.

And, um, I tell you what, the next fight after that is the most nervous I've ever fucking been for a fight. it was Dan and I were both fighting in this organization we're both fighting for titles um like not that it has anything to do with it but we're still working at the time like so we're cutting weight so it's like day before Wayans where we had to get a roof uh sheath up the roof and seal up this house that this uh thing we're doing so you're like worked a 14 hour day like no food and you're just like 36 feet up off the ground um in la la land yeah Yeah, it was exciting.

You know, I'm fighting this guy that, like, he had the title. But, like, he still had a losing record. And I was like, my God. Like, I just watched Frankie Edgar fight in the UFC and have, like, the fight of the year with Tyson Griffin. I can't lose to this guy, you know. And, like, I'm sitting there in the back, like, almost puking. Like, it was, it was from nerves. From nerves.

Yeah. It was, it was, I was nervous as hell because it was like, I knew that I should beat this guy. And, you know, going from, like, the level of competent and taking a step down, like I said, even though he was a champ. Yeah. It was, that was hard to deal with. But, yeah, like, we had a bunch of fights. I think when we signed with the UFC.

Both you and Dan, sign with UFC. Yeah. The most amazing part of my career is that we sat next to each other and signed our UFC contracts at the same time, which we did not expect that to happen. What was that like? It's just fucking cool because we were, you know, he was, what was he? He was 10 and 1 and I was 11 and 1. So we knew it was going to happen, but we didn't think that it was going to happen at the same time. So we were kind of both under contract with the IFL and they could, you know, go fuck themselves.

I hate those guys. I know nothing about them. Yeah, yeah. Is it a feeder league? They were. They do not exist. No, yeah. The UFC ended up buying them out.

and we got our, you know, they bought out our contracts and brought us aboard. So, yeah, so I went from fighting 12 fights in New Jersey to my first fight in UFC being in Birmingham, England, which was, that fucks you up a little bit, you know. Do they bring you in that day? And they're like, gentlemen, we just want to talk to you about something? And then they're like sliding. Well, they contacted our manager. He had been in contact with them. Okay.

Because I actually almost got signed before that, probably like six months before. that we were we were gonna do a thing the i fell was gonna they were trying to build out and do a push and then they breached contract um so then our contracts were known void uh the ufc came calling and then they filed and we're gonna file an injunction to to keep me from fighting for the ufc and uh was like fuck you so i went in and i fought one of their like top three guys and beat the shit out of them. And that was, yeah, that was my last fight before I got signed with the UFC. And then Dan ended up winning the 85 title.

And then a few months later, we got signed. Does your life change at all? You signed that contract? I mean, is there anything that's tangibly different? Well, we were like, we had been working, you know, five days a week, six days a week, and training at night. And it was like, we're, we sign with the UFC. Like, we have to take.

This is our full-time J-O-B. Yeah, so we told our dad, we're like, listen, like, I know this is going to suck. But, like, we're, we need to start training during the day. So, like, we'd, you know, help them one or two days a week, and then we're training during the day. Well, signing with the UFC, I mean, you get paid when you fight, right? Yes. It's not like, you're like, hey, you guys are now on salary with the UFC. No, it was a big, a big commitment, you know, to, like,

just fucking throw it all in. You know, unfortunately, it, uh, it, you know, it worked out more so for me, I guess, uh, you know, like Dan had 13 fights in the UFC, you know, and he fought fucking the who's who at 185, you know, Chale Soan and Michael Bisping, Damian Maya, Paharis, uh, Nate Markwart, like all in a row, too. Uh, they did not give him an easy fucking schedule, uh, especially he was dealing with a bunch of shit, you know, personally. So, like, it was, it was a tough road for him.

But, like, he was in every fucking one of those fights. And, like, you know, like, that's one of the tough parts is, like, I, you know, I know, I know what I'm capable of. And, like, it's, it bugs me if I don't do what I'm capable of, you know, in a fight. I know what my brother is capable of and what he was capable of. And it's like, man, like, Dan in the gym It's a world champ

You know And like That's hard But there are a lot of guys like that There are guys that show up on fight day And there are guys that you know Come down a little bit He was always a headcase

And nervous And you know Battled with that Like would you say that's more common Probably yeah Yeah Yeah That's I mean you guys are doing something

that's very exposed under lights with a lot of people watching. There's a lot of pressure involved in that. Well, if you care what people think. And I don't. Fair. You know? That's one of like some of the younger guys that train with me. You know, they're like, oh, what if I get knocked out?

And everybody's, like, what the fuck do you care? Like, you're the one that's taking, you know, taking a leap, putting yourself out there. trying to accomplish something, you know? Like, I'm not going to give you shit if you get knocked out. And I've got the most fights in fucking UFC history. Like, so if somebody that's never trained, like, are you going to take their opinion? Are you going to put weak? And they would be the one to try to give it to you as well.

Yeah, yeah. The one with the least amount of experience. Yeah. Like, even if it's your uncle or your cousin, like, who the fuck cares? Like, I can learn something from anybody. Anybody can teach me a move. And there's, you know, there's a few things in jiu-tzee that kind of piss me off. Such as.

Well, like, there is this ego that like, hey, you know, lower belts aren't allowed to ask upper belts to roll. Fuck that. Don't be a twat about it and, like, take two rounds off while he's getting hard rounds and then go to pick up, you know. Matt Shark. Yeah. Like, no. Like, but I want people to come up and want to roll with me. like it's a I look at as a sign of respect you know because when I'm in I'm in the gym I want to

roll with the best guys in there too yeah like um but uh like so anybody can teach me something but like very few people can tell me how to fight you know and like and I know who their name you know their names yeah and I know what they've accomplished right it's like I either I either look at them as like a legend of the sport or I call them coach even though they're not my fucking coach like because they they've they fucking earned it yeah by being there for their athletes you know so it's like i don't i don't really you know i get shit people give me shit if i fucking lose or whatever sometimes they just want to be a troll on on the internet like somebody will give me shit i don't fucking care like like i it just it it it doesn't matter because the person has zero uh

Zero experience in what I do. And there are very, very few fucking people at this point. Yeah. That have the experience that I have. So it's like, you know, everyone's got an opinion, but they're all worth, you know, they all weigh a little bit different, you know. 100% true. Yeah. What was your first fight like in the UFC?

It was. So you went overseas, you said. Yeah. Yeah. It was, the fight was awesome. The few days leading up to it was like, like, shit. Dude. Like, you know, the seven-hour flight with the five-hour change.

So you leave at seven o'clock at night and you arrive there at seven o'clock in the morning. How far ahead of time do you try to get over there? They plan us to be out there if it's a Saturday fight Tuesday. I could have paid, you know, but I didn't have the fucking money to do it to fly out earlier. You know, it's like, I don't know if it was the hotel or what, but the beds were tiny. Excuse me. There were three of us in the room. So it's like, and of course it's like...

Three fighters? No. No, it was my coach and manager, he couldn't get his own room until later on. And my wife, who was not my wife yet, my fiance, she flew out with us. So it's three of us in the room. Quite the thruple. Yeah. Yeah.

So I'm trying to sleep on this bed with my wife that is like, you know, two feet wide. um you know my schedule was so messed up i ended up making weight the day before wands like which is not did they count that though no okay yeah like i did a workout and it's like holy shit i'm 156 pounds like what the fuck am i doing um so like yeah the week was terrible you know no sleep and and all that shit but uh went out and i actually i fought a guy that was uh he was ranked i think top i think he was two in the world at that point at welter rate. This guy David Barron. He's a French dude.

He was coming off a win over, was it, Sakara, right? I don't know. Some Japanese dude, right? He fought him over in Japan, and the guy was, like, number two in the world, and this guy beat him. So now he's number two in the world, and it was like,

but then he was dropping down to, to lightweight. So it was like it was a a ballsy fight to take but, you know, I went out and I just

fucking square peg round hole and just, you know, fucking warm out, choked him out in the third and yeah,

it was an awesome crowd, absolutely like phenomenal crowd out there and they just go and batty the whole time. Yeah, yeah.

And, you know, like, fucking, kind of changed my life. I got a bonus, right? Like I made five and five for my first UFC fight. And then I think I got...

$5,000? $5,000 and $5,000 for the win. And then I made a little bit on sponsorship. And then I got, I think, a $40,000 bonus. And it was like, holy fuck. Yeah, that's big cash. Yeah, yeah. And then my second fight in the UFC,

so it was like that was... was October, mid-October. Then I got married. I went on my honeymoon and like I come back. I'm fat and happy. Frigin, you know, we went to Aruba for a bit. Like get back like two days later. I went pheasant hunting, you know, and I was actually, I was taking a nap.

So Dan and I had gone pheasant hunting that morning. And then we went to the diner and I probably ate 8,000 calories. So I was in a coma I'm sleeping on the couch with my two dogs And my manager starts Buzz at my phone And I'm like fuck this And I'm like I'll call him later

And I was like Calls me like three times And I'm like yeah what's up He's like do you want a fat Fight Matt Wyman Next week? You know And I was like

Let me come in the train Like let me see what I can do Because I train like a couple of times Let's see how the gas tank's doing Yeah So I go in And I just hammered, you know, three rounds. And I was like, all right, let's do it.

You know? So, yeah, it was on eight days notice. And it was at Fort Bragg, the first fight for the troops. And went out and dominated him, you know, for three rounds and was fucking exhausted. Like there's like a portion of the Rogan, I think, was there. And he's like, he's like, Jim's close. closing his eyes. I was like on his back and I'm controlling it.

I'm just like, oh God, I'm so tired. Yeah, you know, when after. That's a total joke, how that? Yeah, yeah. And then I won another bonus. And then I won a like a $30,000 bonus. So it's like I went from having like, you know, two dimes to rub together to making real money. Yeah, to like making nearly six figures that year.

And it was like, holy shit. What are they based the bonuses on? Um, politics. Okay. Explain. Well, you know, uh, sometimes, sometimes there's politics involved, you know, uh, it's, it's an unfortunate thing. Listen, I've made a lot of money and bonuses and I'm super appreciative of it. Who makes the decision?

Uh, there's like a handful of, you know, Dana, the matchmakers. And I think one of the, uh, Mark Ratner used to help. I don't know if he still helps with it. Is there a set criteria or just sometimes it shows up and sometimes it doesn't? So it was, it used to be knockout of the night, submission of the night, and then fight of the night. Okay. And I might have had some play in this. I don't know.

I haven't actually asked anybody. I don't have the stones too. But at 162, when I fought Fabricio Camos and arm barred him in the first round with a very nice, arm bar if I do say so myself the best one the best one that I've ever hit like ever like you couldn't I couldn't do it right now if you were yeah if you were allowing me to do it on you I couldn't do it as well as I did it in that fight and Rhonda Rousey went out and arm barred Misha Tate with a kind of sloppy arm bar in the third round is this the one where Misha let her arm get melted or was that a subsequent fight I think that was yeah that was but this is the second time that Rhonda had

armbard her. It was the third round, and it was kind of a, like, it shouldn't, it only worked because Misha was tired. Like, her leg, I don't think was over her head or, you know, her neck. Like, it was both, that leg was like under her head or something like that. They gave her, the, it was a $75,000 bonus for submission the night that, that time. And they gave it to her when she was making a couple mill to fight. And, you know, I was making, I don't even know what I was making.

Not a couple mill. not a good mill, maybe a tenth of what she was making. There was a little blowback. I appreciated it. You know, the fans got on, you know, they were like, what the fuck? Why didn't just go to gym? And then from that point on, then it became performance of the night bonuses. So they changed the criteria.

Broadened it, it sounds like. Yeah, so then it was like they could do whatever they wanted. But, you know, like I said, it's not in the contract that they have to give that to us. Yeah. They throw it out there And sometimes they're super generous with it Like this last card They gave every

There were eight finishes on the card or something like that And everyone that had a finish They gave a bonus to a $50,000 bonus Which is like, no shit Yeah That's awesome Fucking awesome You know, yeah

It's like It's cool I would like to see I would like the pay To be a little bit different But yeah Like I said I've made a lot of money

With it Because I just kind of fight as hard as I can fight until I can't fight anymore and it works most of the time and if it doesn't work, I usually take a pretty good beating that leads to a fight in the night. So, you know, so it's like a, so yeah. Like I said, I'm appreciative of it. Like I would like to see something like that where finishes, it's like, hey, if you get a finish, you're getting a bonus.

So that it's not, you know, there's not like any picking. Because sometimes, you know. Without a set criteria, it can look like there's a lot of favoritism. Yeah. Well, I mean, sometimes it seems like that, right? Like a perfect armbar? Well, an okay armor against a somebody that that person had already armed. You know? A purple belt.

A black belt armoring a purple belt or a black belt armoring a third-degree black belt. I don't make these decisions, Jim. I'm just going to sit here and drink my cold brew. at all at 39 of your fights in the ufc which one stands out uh joe loz on one um excuse me throat throat noise um yeah excited just thinking about it um it it was a it was a weird one because like everything that kind of led up to it right like uh so i fought that was 2012 i fought Nate Diaz in May And I ended up like cherry bombing my fucking extensor muscle in the first round of that fight. I threw a knee as he stepped back and I tried to like catch my weight and just exploded it.

Like high up in the hip? No, in the calf. So like, then I, you know, then he kicked the shit out of me. So I was like in a walk and boot and stuff like that afterwards. You know, I went to like the podiatrist and he's like, you know, we don't see this very often. He's like, usually it's like a 55-year-old woman that falls down some stairs. Thanks, buddy. Like, I'm a 29-year-old fucking professional athlete.

Yeah. So I'm in a walking boot. And it was like two weeks later or something like that. I did a appearance through the UFC at Walter Reed. And Joe was there and a couple of other fighters were there. And like, so I'm like, you know, still on. crutches and shit and fucking, uh, and they're like, Jim, you know, do you want a wheelchair? I'm like, fuck you.

Like, I'm not, that'd have been sweet. It's like, I'm not fucking, they wanted me to have one because I was slowing everybody down. I'm like, I'm in fucking Walter Reed. I'm not sitting in a fucking wheelchair. And Joe's there and he's like, I'll push you. And I was like, dude. Like, no. Like, it's not fucking happening.

Um, and like we had, we had done some signings and stuff like that at some of the expos together. So we, we'd known each other. for a while. And so, you know, a couple months go by. And he was supposed to fight Gray Maynard at the end of the year card. And it was, I think it was the week before Thanksgiving. I was actually, I was in the wood. I decided to, like, go bull hunting and then just stay overnight in the woods.

Unplanned, just like this is where I sleep now? Well, I had some stuff with me, but like I just wanted to do a, you know, solo overnight or like... In West State? New Jersey. As an Eastern Hunter, it's like, it doesn't happen, right? So I was like, you know, I just want to do it. Like, because I've always enjoyed, you know, that... The outdoors.

The outdoors and the survival-type stuff and camping and shit like that. Yeah, true. In a real survival situation. Yeah, totally, totally. So I was actually laying next to it. Cell coverage. I was eating ramen soup and laying next to... a long long fire with my with my T-P and in my shit and my manager calls me up and he's like

hey do you want to fight Lozan and at the end of the year you know in like six weeks and I was like yeah let's do it so that's that's always my response basically so I remember I was I was a hundred and I think I was a hundred and eighty eight pounds or something like that like the next day when I when I got back like I was just about about the heaviest I'd ever been yeah you know and had like five weeks to to get ready is that reasonable to lose because you fought it worked yeah yeah it worked you know like I got down to about 171 172 before you started the cut yeah going into fight week and then uh yeah and then made the cut and but it was a it was a weird thing too so like my I had my corner uh and my striking coach at the

time was a little bit of a head case he didn't didn't like getting on planes and a little bit of anxiety um so he ended up like not wanting to come out uh my brother something happened he couldn't come out so uh my dad and my my strength conditioning coach uh he ended up coming out and cornered me and i had my other coach and you know coach manager um and uh like i flew out before everybody so like i was by myself it was i think it was the day after Christmas. So it was just really like, it felt different in Vegas

compared to every other time I'd been there. Yeah. And, yeah, it was just like, really, like, kind of laid back. And we were the, the co-main event.

And, yeah, like, went out there. And I had, in the time, so I'd fucked my ankle up. So it really, it bothered me. I had dealt with some scar tissue in it. It bothered me. to like point my toes. So like being on the mat and and grappling actually hurt it worse than hitting pads and stuff. So I was hitting a lot of pads and I was doing a lot of elbow sparring

in the months leading up to it. And, you know, we're elbow sparring what it sounds like. You're using your elbows instead of your hands? Yeah, but you have to do it in a very like safe manner. Like it has to be one person goes while the other person is kind of the moving dummy. So with my with my coach, I was he was he was kind of, he was kind of. of letting me work and I'm not like you know beating the shit out of them yeah but you know it's letting me flown because like you you're the product of the last couple weeks you know like that's that's the way it is and and uh you know because you you fall to the level your training and I had been doing a lot of that so those fucking elbows came out in the fight and it was awesome

and it's really hard to do that type of sparring especially if like both guys are trying to get prepare for a fight because one guy has to just suck it up and be the the dummy yeah um So, like, I haven't really fallen into a situation where it's been easy to do that a lot since then. But I elbowed the fucking piss out of him. And by piss, I mean blood. I think he got 40 stitches after that fight. And I hit him a few times. And then I had like a standing arm triangle, side choke.

And I'm squeezing and the blood shooting out of the top of his. head and we're against the cage and it went like over the apron and to the first row and there was some actor sitting there and he gets blood all over his shirt or his suit and the fucked up part is like that's where my kids sat when they came to the fight same exact like orientation to the cage yeah is where I've sprayed other people's blood which would have been fucking awesome but yeah like we go out and we're beating the hell out of each other and and you know I remember in the second round, so his rap was coming undone out of his glove.

And so the ref calls timeout. And like, this is a guy that I like. I'm a fan of his. And I'm like, hey, dude, great fucking fight. Pound to fist, you know. And it's like, I don't have to hate somebody to go out and, you know, beat him up. Yeah. And elbow him.

Like, it's part of the game. Like, I mean, shit, if I could have gotten paid to spar my brother sometimes, we could have made a lot of fucking money. It sounds like you guys did a lot of free fighting. Yeah. But yeah, like we went and, you know, that fight, like, if I'm going to be remembered for anything, I hope it's the last, like, minute of that fight because I won. Like, at that point, I'd won. I could have moved away.

I could have backed away. I could have, you know, just let time. Doesn't sound like your style of you. Oh, no, it's not my style at all, you know. And like, I came pressing in and he attempted to try to do the scissor heel hook on me. And like I pushed him off because we both could fucking barely stand at that point. I pushed him off and I came back in knowing, like we had drilled it. We had drilled the defense for it because we knew that he was going to try to throw that up there.

But there was still time on the clock, so I'm still trying to punch a hole in his head, you know? So I kept going forward and he ends up throwing up a heel hook and I defend. and then he rolls to a guillotine that wasn't there. People like to think that it was there. But yeah, so it was like there was the drama of, you know, him putting on the, you know, putting me in some submissions towards the end of the fight. And there's the picture of it where I'm like basically laying on him. Like, fuck.

I hate that picture because it's like it seems so disrespectful to me to like that I was like laying on him. But yeah, that was a, it was pretty intense. I actually, you'll get, I smacked my coach after that fight. Like, he got in my face. Like, I'm sitting against the cage, and he's like, said something because I took him down in the second round. Because I was fucking tired. I only had a few weeks to train for the fight. So he, like, gets in my face and it's like, psh.

I was like, don't ever talk to me like that at a fucking guy, right? Like, I was so, like, out of it. It took me three showers to get all the blood out of my ears and stuff. No shit. Yeah, and it was all his. He didn't cut me. Yeah, and like, it was a, in between rounds of that fight was like, like, so I get the tunnel vision. All it is me and him.

That minute in between is like, bra, you know, like going berserk and then quiet. Yep, everything quiet's back down and it's time to work. And, yeah, it was a. You know, it's like one of those things. It's like it's, uh, it was the coolest fight to be a part of because of what we did. Um, but it's like, is that my best performance? No, it's not my fucking best performance. My best performance is like fucking steamroll somebody and get paid and, you know.

Move on with your day. Yeah, exactly. Like, assert my dominance and, uh. What happens after a fight? Like, what do you guys do after you exit the octagon? Uh, we go back. We get checked out by the, the doctors. Yeah.

Um, you know, if you. need stitches sometimes they'll do it there sometimes you send you the hospital if you need a you know uh CT or MRI they'll send you there um but other than that is like you shower and change out and you're yeah doing whatever you want to do or for the most part yeah like so back in the back in those days um like they did a little bit differently that there would have a a group uh press conference afterwards and uh you know i mean one of the coolest things about like that fight And, like, mine and Joe's, like, relationship is that we sat at the press conference next to one another. And that's never fucking happened.

Like, no other guys that just went out and beat their shit out of each other for 15 minutes have sat next to one another at the press conference. You know, and it, yeah, it was a hell of a fight. And, like, so we would do that. You know, you'd have that big one. Now they just run you through. You do the media. And then you can get to hell of that. And you're off and running.

Yeah. Do you think it's more common that the fighters. have respect for each other or it's something like the to use a recent example the covington and um masvidal they don't seem to like each other very much they don't um you know and and they they have personal history so i i used to be training partners right yeah yeah and like best buddies too um i think that a majority of the time well i know that a majority of the time is respectful there's both parties are out there doing the job obviously the goal is to smash you the person but yeah it's not vindictive in nature no

and there are some guys that have to like not like somebody to be able to fight them you mean yeah yeah uh that's i'm not that way um but like that's what kind of bugs me about some of the like the fighting has kind of become half shit talking yeah and half what actually goes on in the octagon um which is kind of annoying because it's like anybody can talk shit um and like we used to do the sit down interviews in the back and they'd run it on the big screen in between fights, you know, before you walk out there. And you couldn't leave until you said enough like mean shit, right? It was the fucking...

You had to meet your requirement of shit talk. Oh, star that one, you know? So you learn the thing the first time you go in there and like, oh yeah, you know, he's a really good grappler. I'm looking forward to this fight. Like, no. Come on. He's a fucking piece of shit.

I'm going to choke him out. Yep. Star that one. So then it's like you learn the game and then everybody sounds the same. Yeah. You know, and it's like, this is stupid. Very templated. Yeah.

So a lot of it, a lot of the talk is a vast, vast majority of the talk, I should say, is just manufactured shit. And that's why like every time, oh, look at these guys. They just traded for 15 minutes or 25 minutes and now they've got respect for each other. It's like, no, no, that show that they put on beforehand. was a show. And, you know, like, like some guys can cut a good promo. Like,

Sonan was always good at, like, the pro wrestling promo, right? But then, like, a lot of it. I mean, Connor said some stuff that was pretty witty. So you're going to say, who's the best shit talker in the game? I mean, honestly, I always kind of like Bisping,

because, like, when he, like, some people, he's a lover, love him or hate him, right? Yeah, it seems to be that way. And I think he, I think he's just, he's just him. Like, he's not putting anything on. It's not fake. He's just a wise ass. And if somebody, you know, tries to push his buttons, well, he's coming right back.

And, like, when he fought Dan, fucking super respectful, I mean, the guy's fucking awesome. Like, I, I'm a big fan of his. But, like, that's just him. That's not, that's not, you know, maybe Connor. have some writers. It's not a facade. It's not a character. Yeah.

He's just a wise ass. Yeah. And I have more appreciation for that than, you know, the cutting the pro-like the Covington, like his, his shtick, like, I'm not a fan of the thing that he does. I'm a fan of him as a fighter. Yeah. He is a hell of a fighter. You're not a fan of the character that he plays.

I'm not a fan of the character. I think it's, and I'm not a fan of the other character. characters that get played too, you know, uh, uh, Suhudo's or, or Connors like Connor plays a character too. Um, yeah. Because like, I, I understand and as I've gotten older, like, we are entertainers and I, and I do acknowledge that. Um, but I don't know, just the, like I said, anybody can run their mouth. mouth.

Like, yes, if you can run your mouth and you can back it up in the octagon, then great. But, yeah, I just never, I never liked it. And, like, because it always felt fake to me. Like, man, like, this guy's busting his ass just like I am. Yeah. You guys are both professionals. Yeah, like, he's spending time away from his kids, just like I am. He's grinding and feeling like shit and, like, still doing it.

and you know dealing with injuries dealing with illnesses like I've got a ton of respect for him so why am I gonna like talk shit now are there guys that I don't like yes there are a few that like that's just human nature though yeah like I just don't like Kenny Florian like I don't even know who that is yeah he's never liked him never like that fucking that did he personally do something to you no no you just I don't know whatever I don't want to talk some people like you chocolate ice cream something like vanilla it's true it's fine you don't have to justify it well we like a minchip when you when you're trying to when you're trying to win a world title just by getting a fucking doctor stoppage for a cut that fucking like that's i don't know i'm not a big fan of that like that's

when he's fighting sean shirk that's all he was trying to do is cut him just to get the doctor to stop it and like i get it it's i've won by doctor stoppage and i it sucked yeah it sucked because it was it was not as clear and concise and dominant as I wanted it to be. It's somebody else's opinion. And I don't want anybody's. It's between me and you. You know, like if you go unconscious or you tap or this or like that's what I want. I don't want the three judges or I don't want the doctor to say that you can't fight me anymore because I want you to decide that you can't fight with me anymore, you know? But that's just, that's the tip of the iceberg. Who's the hardest hitter you fought? Hmm.

I mean, Melvin Galard hit friggin really hard. Yeah. Anthony Pettis, he hit me with a, he hit me with like an overhand on the top of the head. And it was like, holy shit. Like, you know, and I think that he, when he was fighting me, he was trying to not commit as much to his strikes because he didn't want to get taken down. But yeah, he hit pretty fucking hard. Like, everybody, like, if you let it get in there, it fucking, it hurts. I just feel like some have got better technique in hands than others.

I mean, the only time that I've ever been knocked down, including training with the body shot, was against Don Serroney. We knew going into the fight, we're preparing for it, that he's going to throw knees up the center. And, like, of course, fucking, you know me? Round peg? Or square peg, round hole? I want to punch him in the face. So I knew that I should be working to the side, and I just overcommitted down the center,

throwing an overhand. And he hit me hard enough in the chest to bruise my spleen. So then, like... Does I just feel like you're dying? Just knock the wind out of me. And then, like, the idea is when you're striking, you're supposed to kind of be flexed, like hard belly. Yeah.

Once you get hurt there, it's impossible. So then he started throwing the snap kick. And they were just sinking in. And like every one of them was just sinking in, sinking in. Like he knocked a wind out of me like six times in the first round. Oh, fuck. And then, yeah, it was horrible.

And then a few more before he kicked me in the head in the second. And in the second round, he throws one. and it was like, I've never been stabbed before, but I imagine, I imagine that it's what it would feel like. Like, it just sank completely in there and,

uh, knocked me down and the ref, uh, was like, he called it. He's like, a low blow. And like,

I can't fucking breathe. And I'm like, damn, it was, it was good. It was good. Like, because I'm not fucking,

I'm not fucking taken. that's not me other other people can do it I'm not taking it you know so I'm telling the ref that it's a legal strike he's like can you continue and I'm like yeah fucking stand my fucking ass up like that oh that was a bad one and then I knew I because then my hands were like here and then he kicked me in the side of the head how'd that feel I didn't feel that you know like you get knocked out you don't feel it um yeah yeah but that that fucking kick you know and I talked to to Dan after that and he's He's like, he's like, the reason I called it a low blow is he's like, it sounded like, you know, he hit something hard.

I was like, yeah, that was my pelvis. Do you just piss blood after that? I didn't. I didn't for that one. I have in the past, but usually it's from like, you know, punches to the kidneys and shit. Good God. So in your fighting career, how and when did you get Lyme? I got bit in 2013.

Probably like late May, early June. I didn't know. It actually took me a while to figure probably like 2018, 19 to figure it out, like when I was bit. So the initial symptoms of Lyme are a lot of times, like, flu-like. So I had a period there where I had like severe nausea to the point where like taking the garbage out. I had two kids in diapers at that point. So, like, I'd be taking the garbage up. Fucking dry heave in.

If I took a swig of my coffee in the morning and I smelled it a little too strong, I would fucking gag. What did you think that was? I didn't know. I thought, actually, I thought the nausea was from, because my niece had gotten, like, rotovirus or something like that. Okay. So I thought it was from that. And then right after that, that was for, like, you know,

a week or so. And then I had a series of migraines, and I don't really get headaches, let alone migraines. I had, like, you know, light sensitivity, kind of a vertigo-ish, not like dizzy, but, like, felt, like, off balance. I got, like, I think it was, like,

seven and ten days or something like that. So I went to an E&T and a neurologist and got checked out. They fucking ran a battery of tests. They tested me for Lyme. I test negative. Still to this day, I test negative. Well, that doesn't make any sense.

About 50% of people test negative for Lyme. It's a tricky little bit. While having it. Yeah, yeah. Jesus. And so, like, the doctors, like, listen, like, we can't really find anything that's causing the migraines. So, like, let's just see how things go, you know? Yeah, so that was 2013.

and like over the course of a few years, like certain things started to come up. I was getting a lot of neuropathy. You know, if I sat on the floor, my legs would go numb pretty quickly, like sitting on the floor playing with the kids. Like my legs would fall asleep. And you're obviously still fighting during this day too.

Yeah, yeah. Joint pain. At some point, I started going up and downstairs, or I started going downstairs sideways because it was easier on my knees. And when I'm going upstairs, stairs, I'm like pulling myself up with the, uh, the handrail. Um, like, I could be middle of training and like go to get up and I got to post my hands on my knees like an old man. And I'm, you know, this was like 2000, for, well, 2015-ish, I guess is when I really started to kind of

come through. Fucking 32 years old. Um, and like, yeah, it started to like just get worse, you know, harder and harder to train. And, uh, one of my favorite. symptoms just because I like to say it is I would get morning stiffness. Are you sure that's a symptom of Lyme disease? Which is different than morning would, all right? How so? So it is a symptom of rheumatoid arthritis where you wake up and everything hurts and you can't. That is not what I thought you were talking about.

Yeah, yeah, that's why I like it. Because everybody's like, oh, he's talking about his boner. Yeah, you just mean that your joints are stiff in the morning. Yeah. And like, so like, I, I, web-m-ded it. And it's like, it's like, yeah, you know, wake up 45 minutes earlier and take an Advil. And I'm like, I'm not fucking doing that. Yeah, it's 70.

Yeah, like, like, what the fuck? So, yeah, it was, it was hard. Like, I was training for UFC 196 in the beginning of 2016, March of 2016. And, like, I couldn't train. Like, I ended up, I was just, I'd get a few sessions on the, treadmill run five miles in the treadmill like it was hit or miss going to grappling or sparring this and that like some days I just couldn't get out of fucking bed and I thought like the joint pain and the neuropathy it's like well my

neck's fucked up you know like of course yeah you know my brother had neck surgery in 2013 had a had a fusion and I in the most unspectic spectacular injury ever fucked mine up in 2014 And I felt like everything was kind of because I had been a fighter for, you know, a decade. Yeah, the wear and tear. And I went to my doctor for my pre-fight physical, you know, and he's like, is there anything else going on, you know? Because we did, we did all that. He's like, anything else going on, you know, like, I'm not going to put it in there.

Like, well, yeah. So, you know, I started telling him. Funny you should ask. Funny you should ask. Like brain fog. Like I used to. Fuck, man. Like, so Lyme can mimic, like, Alzheimer's.

So, I mean, I would, I would go down, like, go down in my basement, you know, my cave to, like, do shit in my, like, fucking brewing and archery stuff and, like, this and, you know, it's like where I'd fucking tinkered and played and shit. And it's like, oh, I got to clean up. And I'd walk down there and I'd literally just, like, get overwhelmed right away and just, like, sit there for 45 minutes, just stand there and not know what to do. and just like lose time, right? Are you sharing any of this with your wife?

Not really. I should have been. Not as much as I. Like, I was to a degree, but. Yeah. Given a little bit of insight? Yeah. Not like, not fully.

You know, I feel like an asshole about that. Your nod says I should. I understand what you didn't, especially with what your occupation was. You know. Yeah. I wasn't sure what was. going on, right? So, like, I was gearing up for 196, and I was like, man, like, I'm going to get, I'm going to get through this fight, no matter how I have to, and I'm going to get, I'm going to

ask them to fight on UFC 200, and I'm going to retire. And so I was at that physical, and I tell him about all this stuff, and he's like, I think he got Lyme disease. He's like, let's run some, you know, I had to get my pre-fight blood work done. So he's like, I'm going to run another script. it's like gets get these other tests done we'll test for lime and then some other things to kind of try to rule out some other shit um so like i i i'm actually in Vegas i think it was thursday maybe before the fight Tuesday wednesday or Thursday before the fight and he like calls me up he's like uh judge him by your blood test he's like i'm pretty sure and you got lime he's like when you get back let's run a course of uh doctor cycling and he's like if you have

Lyme disease, it's going, you're going to feel a lot different very quickly. Yeah. And, yeah, I like, you know. How was that fight though? It was awful. That was the only fight that I've ever been able to see the crowd. Like, I was so, like, loopy and, like, unfocused that, like, I could, I could see everything.

Huh. And so, like, I get back on Sunday, you know. know go to the pharmacy on Monday and get my doxycycline it's like by the weekend it's like things start to lift wow yeah like I mean it took a while for the joint pain to go away and like the neuropathy stuck around for a bit too but like some of the brain fog like I mean it cleared off yeah almost immediately started to like clear off and I like I you know twitching and stuff like that. I mean, that went away pretty quickly. Is that the main treatment for

Lyme is Doxy? It is when you catch it quickly, right? Like, so if you get bit by a tick and you find the tick and remove it and they're like, hey, you know, this is a deer tick or they test it and they say that, you know, it's positive for Lyme. Yeah. They throw you on three weeks of Doxy and it usually wipes it out. Okay.

Sounds like that was not your experience. Yeah, no, no. Once it, it's they call it the fuck, drawn a blank. the great imitator because it can look like so many different things symptomatically it hits everybody differently it the bacteria can cross the blood brain barrier which makes it even more fucked up that's why it like fucks up your brain the plaque that's associated with it look is like exactly like friggin

Alzheimer's it's a it's a fucking little bitch and you have it for life right yeah essentially like you can kind of like kind of get rid of it, you know, like, but it might come back. I might, I might get, you know, a second wave of it. Who the fuck knows? But at least at this point, like, I know, I know what I'm fighting. Yeah. And that was like a huge fucking, like.

Just thinking you're dying and not knowing why sounds worse than knowing, oh, hey, you got Lyme disease from a tick. Yeah, dude. Like, this is my end now. This is how I die. Knowing, knowing the opponent, right? Knowing what it is. And even, like, like, I'm not a.

I'm not a marathon guy. I'm a fucking, I'm a sprint guy. Like, let's fucking in and out. Let's get it done. You know, he came first or last,

right? It's very Ricky Bobby. It is Ricky Bobby. Except in the bedroom. But, yeah, like, when you're dealing with Lyme disease

that went undiagnosed for so long, it's a fucking marathon. Like, and there needs to be a consistent change And it's that like that little bit every day. Like it's not going to be, oh, well, I took some oregano oil and it's gone. You know, like, no, like you're going to fucking have to fight this shit, you know? And that was a huge thing that like, like, at least I know what it is.

Yeah. At least for like a mentality shift. So it's like I went, I fought it, you know, I felt way better by UFC 200 in July, went out, smashed one of my fucking heroes that when I started fighting, Tocanormigomi, who was the number one guy in the world when I started fighting, saw Dudley, yelled at him, you know, and like, and then I fought Joe Lozano again, eight weeks later, had another fight of the night. And like this whole time, like, I'm on, I'm on DoxCycline, taking, you know, two doses a day,

shitting my fucking brains out. Like, that was probably the worst, the worst part is like, it just eats your gut away. Like, it's, that's why people don't like it,

you know, and like, you got to develop a routine and regimen, wet wipes, yep, uh, yeah,

like, there were a lot of close calls in that for six months, like, like, like, some really close calls. For whatever reason,

I think because it, like, nuked my stomach. So I took it for six months and I missed like one like morning dose. Yeah. Right. And then like I was telling my dog was like, you know, I feel really good. But I poop five times before noon.

He's like, okay, let's let's tone back on, you know, like, we'll see if you beat it. You know, see if you got it. So I went off of the doxy and that was like September. and within, I think it was like seven weeks. Like I was working up for my fight against Tiago Alves in New York. And I remember it was like a couple days before the fight. And it was like my art start, I started twitching. I was like, you son of a bitch.

Like it's back. It's back. You know, like you motherfucker. So I'm like, all right, me being me is like, we're going to see if it's actually back. You know, I should have just. just jumped right back on the fucking doxy. Go through that fight, you know, win, and then it's like, I get the Dustin Poet fight again in New York, which New York Commission sucks and never fighting there again.

But that's a side. And like, so at that point, like, it came back and it started to beat me up again. And then I was trying, I was like, well, maybe I didn't take the doxy like correctly, because you're not supposed to take any fucking vitamin or mineral two hours before or two hours after. So like I was, I'm like, dude, this is four times a day. Like I couldn't take the doxia on an empty stomach because it would fuck my gut up. That's the worst, yeah. Yeah.

I couldn't take it like right before bed because I gave myself a little bit of an ulcer like twice because I took it right before bed and you lay down. Then it sits there. Yeah, it sits there and fucks you up. So you got to take it and sit and then. sit up for like at least a half an hour. So I was having a really tough time like getting on that schedule because I'm not a, I don't like to eat before I train. So I'm like, well, how the fuck am I going to take, you know, all these fucking pills and

the doxy like twice in a day. Like it just, it didn't, it didn't line up. So I was struggling with it for a couple weeks there. And in like 2000, early 2017, like I was fucking banged up. Like it came back and it kicked my ass even worse than it did, you know, was a year prior. I remember like I came into to sparring one day and like one of my guys was doing a roll-a-thon. So like nobody told me that everybody was going to get in their roles with him like throughout the day and night. So like nobody really showed up for sparring. So like I end up

rolling with one of the black belts, a little guy for like 25 minutes. And then I rolled pulling like the blue belts for a couple minutes you would have thought I did the fucking worst training session of my life like I was just wrecked fucking wrecked and this was like I don't know a month before the fight something like that oh so like and then you know around the same time as you know going on going to the ATA and team Dudley and shit like that and like I got back on it and and it was a really difficult like lead up to that fight you know how long were on it for the second bout two years holy cow

yeah so my doc was like hey he's like we've seen some research that says that people are on it for two years beat it so that was beginning of 2017 the last day that I took it was New Year's Eve

of 2018 going into 2019 wow because I got the stomach bug and I felt like I puked my asshole out of my mouth so I was like I'm never taking that shit again and like I really started to feel a difference

early 2018 so I'd been on it for like 14 months or so consistently and had changed my diet you know like I changed it when I found out I had it you know it's an inflammatory disease like you know you eat anything stupid like grease of shit yeah you feel it uh and that's exactly the way that that i am now too like airline or not airline food but airport food fucks me up like because i end up

eating stupid shit and uh like i hate traveling and training but uh like yeah really changed change the diet up was taking that consistently was you know supplementing consistently and and working out like and i was able to kind of beat it back and you know um it's it sucks because it's like there's a lot in like it took a while to to kind of overcome it like i said into 17 or 18 rather so like 15 16 17 there's a lot of spotty parts for me like yeah that that we're not you know they they were not placed into the long-term memory yeah which sucks because my my son was born in 15 Um, you know, and it's like, it's like, do I remember being at the hospital?

Like when Sawyer was born? It's like, fuck. I don't really remember that too much. And there's a lot of other shit that just like kind of, kind of went away. Um, but yeah, like that's, uh, like really cleaning up the diet. Uh, you know, and like, I mean, we, we got rid of like the process shit, you know, and, um, you know, Like, I think it's been, there have been a couple different things that kind of helped me through that, you know, like with the diet and shit. And it was like, one, like, honestly, meeting Dudley.

Because, like, I went out to his place and you eating all this fucking delicious food that he's making. And it's like, it's all real shit. His murder food. Yeah. Like, and it's like, wow. Like, this is fucking good. He's a really good chef. Yeah.

People will sleep on him. Yeah. Like, cook wise. I would like to see somebody get a one-star Michelin on a treggar. I don't know if Delle's the guy to do it. But that would be pretty sweet. Yeah.

And like, so kind of, you know, following his shit and like, you know, learning from him and like really working on, like I said, eating a lot cleaner. And that's kind of why I'm like coming out with a fucking cookbook is like, like, food is it's it's a fucking medicine right like it's it's the fuel you put in your body and we've gotten so far away from what we like should be eating because at a convenience and like it just

fucking i don't know man it's like you say i feel i feel it and now if i if if if i eat crummy uh 100 and that might be age and that might be the lime and that that that might be be a myriad of different things. Might be all of it. Yeah. But I know. I know for a fact when I'm, like, when I'm, you know, when I'm eating good, like, I feel a lot better. I feel it.

I sleep better. I perform better in the gym. You know, and like, yeah, it's, it's, it's not, and it's not complicated. It just takes a little time. How'd you come up with the idea for a cookbook? I kind of knew that like food was going to be part of something someday. My family had a restaurant very briefly back in like 2003, 2004. And like they say, location, location, location.

We had a really shit location. You know, and it sucks because it's like you look at what's going on with food and like, you know, Uber eats and all that shit. It's like that's essentially what we were. We didn't have delivery, but like it was pre-made fucking dinners and shit like that. You know, we did lunch and stuff. But it's like real fucking food. Like, and good food.

My parents are, like, my parents are, and my siblings as well are, they're better than me. Like I am the jack of all trades, I think. But I consider myself the worst cook in the family. I think I step up sometimes You know, I'm a performer So like when we have our game time player Yeah, when we have our competitions I fuck them up

Um Because I think I do Because I'm obsessive about it sometimes But uh Yeah like uh So I knew that it I wanted it to be somewhere

You know And it's like I I love like Like I like brewing beer I haven't brewed in like two years since we moved and shit But uh Like beer and wine and stuff and like I love sharing it. I love sharing the food and man,

I don't want to work in a kitchen though. You know? Like and and the, you know, the restaurant business, it's a pain in the ass. Cut throat. Yeah. So it's like, well, how can I dip my toes into this the easiest way?

And it's like, ah, fucking cookbook, you know? So it's a whole bunch of awesome recipes of like really, we went kind of wild game on it. Just because I, I like it because you have the control. Yeah. Right? Like, I love sharing, like, venison with people and bear and all these things, like, because I shot it.

I'm not a huge fan of bear. You got to have it done right. The first. What kind of bear did you have? Black bear? Yeah. The guy made some Saskatoon sausage out of it. Yeah.

It was okay. Yeah. I could have it in that form. I don't know if I would want a bear steak. No, backstrap. My kids and my wife, well, two of my kids and my wife, like bear more than they like venison backstraps. Really? Yep.

You're definitely cooking it differently than I am. Yep. And that's the thing, like every time that I've had Black Bear, it's been New Jersey Black Bear, and, you know, we just raise them a little bit better. You know, I don't know what it is. I think homemade, like if he made homemade sausages, sometimes homemade sausages, sausage is tough. Because, like, you have to, like, I'm not a big fan of, like, the grip and grins. I don't care if people do it.

I have no real desire to do it. Yeah. Because once that animal is down, I look at it as a piece of meat. Yeah. And I'm like, well, am I going to spend fucking 15 minutes wiping blood off and doing this shit? Like, well, do I want to? to get sponsors and like you know do my shit no like I want to eat thing so so like and again I don't I don't give a shit if people do it like it doesn't doesn't bother me at all um it's amazing

how many people it does bother yeah it uh you can get some hate for the old trophy photo if you will I've never been I've never really cared either way yeah either uh but yeah like I I I so I'm kind of I'm obsessive with then the process you know and like I've learned a lot over the years. I mean, I remember like eating venison as a kid and being like, a little gamey, you know, yeah. Like, it wasn't that good. Like, I didn't really, I didn't really like it. And it's like, now granted, my, my tastes have changed. That's for shit, sure. Like, as a kid, I fucking broccoli, fuck you. Fuck you. I love broccoli now. Like, asparagus, Brussels, like, fuck me. All this stuff you try to hide. Yeah, yeah. Like, my palate is a lot different.

I like the bitter a lot more, you know, I will eat sweets, but I sure shit don't crave them anymore. But like, yeah, I try to, I try to be like as fucking clean and, you know, not to like a fucking anal retentive part, but like, so I shot my bear. What the hell year was that? 2020, yeah, 2020. I hunted them in New Jersey It was like 20 years that they had the fucking season I never saw one during hunting season

Finally get this fucking like 200 pounder If that maybe soaking wet You know shot her at like 27 And like It was the October season So it was an archery And You know like I called up my dad

Called up my brother I'm like we got a little work to do You know So like bring back to the barn, skin it out, you know, everything goes in the cooler. I bring it to the check station the next day because we got it out of the woods at like nine. And the game warden's like, thank fucking God that you skinned it. I was like, it's like 65 degrees.

Are people leaving these things overnight? Oh, no way. Yeah, and he's like, yeah, yeah, you wouldn't believe. He's like, I've gone up to some of these things and I can't even like, I can't even put the tag in the ear. because they smell so bad. Yeah. Like how the fuck? Like do you, how do you do that?

Like, like, you've got this thing with, with, like, three solid inches of fat around it that is just the best insulation ever, ever, you know? Just thinking about it. It gets to be like, that's disgusting. Yeah, that's, that's going to be a rugged journey. Yeah. But, yeah, no, like, I try to, I try to be, like, super clean with it. know like I used to split the hips because that's how I was taught to to feel dress a deer and then it's like man there's so much fucking dirt getting in there net like fuck

that yeah so like now I take the time to do the dirty part you know as clean as I can you know bring a smaller knife and and for the old butthole yeah for the old butthole right uh like I tried one of those butt outs the little tool that you like that you cringe every time you use Yeah, I'm sorry. You're apologizing as you. God, this must feel like shit. Yeah. Sorry, dead animal for what I'm about.

If you were alive, if you wanted to torture somebody. Seriously. Yeah, and I never, yeah, I like it. I learned a lot. You know, that's one of the benefits I think of social media is that, like, I've learned a lot of shit, too, over the last couple years with social media. And it's like, well, I can use it as a great tool for education. I just so much information.

Unfortunately, I think that most people, don't. Yeah. What does Angel Jim's wife think of your fighting career? It's got to be hard for her, caring about you, watching you step into the cage. Yeah, I think it's, it's, she doesn't show it. You know, she, she handles it pretty well. And both victory and defeat?

Yeah, in victory and defeat. And she, like, you know, I couldn't do what I do without her, you know, like when we took that fucking jump off the cliff to be. full-time fighters like I mean I was kind of throwing it out there to her like hey you might have to support my ass you know you know so it's yeah she's she's great uh it's it's yeah it can be hard like with the with the training schedule and I mean I try to do it all during the day when everybody's at school and shit yeah you know and she's she's doing her thing so do your kids have an interest in watching you fight they do yeah they like to watch some fight

the fights they, they've been to one. Because I didn't want to, like, only bring the older two. So, like, the stars kind of aligned in 2018, I think it was. Or 19. It brought them all. I think it was 19. Brought them all to a fight in Florida. My mother-in-law lives down there.

So we had some extra help. Yep. It's a little disappointing, right? Like, my son, just like, you know? Stabs me in the heart. They know what fighting is. They've seen me fucking fight. They've watched it on TV.

They've seen me train, you know, heartless hours. Like, I go out, smash this kid. And we come back into the back. And, you know, the UFC, they had, so I'm, like, warming up for the fight. And they're like, hey, can we put your family on camera? Like, yeah, go ahead. And, like, I don't give a shit. Like, can your wife and kids sit cage side?

I was like, that's not up to me, that's up to her. Yeah. Like, whatever. So they ended up rushing them down, cage side. There's a second fight on the card early in those same seats that I squirted Joe's blood the one time. I didn't even know they were there. Yeah. The fight ends, you know, I choked the kid out.

The fight ends, I like yell, and then it's like corner the eyes. I see them. And I'm like, I'm like, get those fuckers up here. You know, they wouldn't bring all four of them. You can only bring like one or two into the octagon, apparently. But, yeah, they brought everybody into the back. And my son Wyatt's like, Dad, did you win? Like, what the fuck do you?

You're like, did you win? Did I win? Like, and he's not the, he's not the baby. Like, you know, I mean, Sawyer was four, I think. So he was really paying attention. Yeah, yeah, totally, totally just. Like, they were so excited that they were on TV. Like, that's, that was.

You got to see it through their eyes. Yeah, I know. They're like, dad's just dad, but now I'm on TV. Yeah. So the next one, hopefully I'm looking for like international fight week in July, and it'll be 40, so I want to get them there. You know. How many past 40 do you think you'll do? Well, I threw it out there that I wanted to get to UFC 300.

Now, it all depends on how I pace myself. And who the fuck knows? because like whether it's a training session or shoveling the snow, I could do something and fuck myself up. This is very true. You know, and that be that. So who knows?

I'm not really focused on that. Like, I'm playing it. You're, you know, by ear one at a time. We'll see, we'll see what the future holds.

You know, I know that I got 40, you know, coming up hopefully soon over the summer. Early summer would be better. and yeah like should be able to get you know 41 by the end of the year too so I mean the thing is that's how I still how I pay the bills so yeah yeah it's nice to have the opportunity to make money your wife ever talked to you about stopping um occasionally uh I don't know it's it's it's hard one

because like the kids are like, you're fighting for another 10 years. I can't fuck you. Thank you for the enthusiasm. Our dad's body doesn't feel like that. Do you not want me to make it to your wedding? We've talked about it. Her problem is that,

and I love you, babe, if you're listening, she doesn't have a vision of what's next. and I'm trying to figure out what's next. So it's like, with her, anything that takes away from fighting at the moment is just playtime. Yep. Where it's like,

it's not playtime. It's, I'm throwing dark to the fucking wall. Yeah, you're looking at the next. So we need to communicate a little better on like the plan. So, yeah,

we'll see, we'll see what's next. But we have talked about it and she, you know, she she doesn't like that I beat myself up you know it's got to be I mean especially long term and seeing the volume that you've done you know I mean watching somebody that you care about regardless of fighting or something else I mean I'm sure spouses of people who ride motorcycles professionally probably have a level of anxiety and trepidation associated with

that as well. Yeah. I get it. Yeah. Yeah. Like that's, uh, she,

uh, she likes being there more than she doesn't like, you know, being there. So it's been tough for the last like two years because she came to the, my fight in February of 2020 and because of, you know, the lockdowns and now like the,

some cards are like super public and some cards aren't. I haven't fought on one of the big cards yet. Yeah. Uh, since the lockdowns. So she hasn't really been able to come. So, uh,

and I, and I know that, that fucking, that eats on her a little bit. She wants to be there. Um, so, because I,

like, I missed one of Dan's fights and it was because my daughter was going to be born like the next day. So, uh, yeah, it was, uh,

that was hard of shit. Yeah. You know, watching it on TV. And, and I think the worst part was listening to the other people in the room, talk about like, what he should do.

Well, I'm sure they are experts. And it's like to shut the fuck on. That is a stupid idea. It's a good thing you can't hear you. Dad. Oh, man. Good Lord. Yeah, that's a tough crowd for sure.

You and your brother square off. Who wins? Most of the time, he wins. Do you guys still beat the shit out of each other? No, no. After he had his neck surgery, he took like two years off. He tried to come back. He re-injured it.

like three weeks out from the fight you know he was having like full blown numbness down his right arm and shit you know he had a fusion I forget what joint but like the other one the one below it was fucked up too and luckily they didn't yeah they didn't have to fuse it um so he he hasn't

he he came back and he did a grappling match after that fight uh 2017 maybe but like since then he kind of just stepped away and and you know he's doing his own thing so yeah how quickly were you able to pick up

jiu-jitsu with your wrestling background pretty quickly pretty quickly some similarities and also some huge differences yeah um like I think it's because I wasn't a great wrestler like I was a good wrestler but not a great

wrestler uh and I think to be be a great wrestler sometimes the ego comes in and then like you get on the jih Tzu mat and I want to just wrestle this guy. I want to outrestle him. Or it's like, no man, I want to fucking make you quit. Like there is nothing that gives me more pleasure than fucking choking somebody. Like the guillotine and you get that little gag and they're like.

Yeah. And then they. It's like, you know, like I. People are definitely not going to understand our laughter at that. No, yeah. I enjoy it. I enjoy the submissions because it's like in wrestling. I wanted to pin everybody, and that's the only goal I had on the mat.

It was not to beat them by points. It was to pin them. Yeah. And like, so with Jiu-Jitsu, it's like it gives me that option that's like, my goal is not to just positionally dominate. You could if you want it, but then there's simulated murder. Yeah. Like, I, yeah.

Like, I don't. I don't want anyone to think that they could survive. I want you to be like, fuck, he just, he would have killed me. Like, and that's pretty much what you're doing. Yeah, it's a, you know, I know it's not necessarily normal, but, uh, I'm a fucking butterfly, bro. I don't need to be normal. So, I mean, whenever you retire at some point, UFC 600. Yeah.

When you think you'll stay active in grappling or a jiu-jitzy, does it, is it, is it, beneficial enough to your life? Do you think you'll actually just completely move in a different direction? I think I will. I think I'll keep up with grappling. I think it's going to be easier for me to keep up with, like, striking for whatever reason. Like, I feel like, you know, I'm dealing with a lot more injuries these days than I dealt with in the past. And it's so much easier for me to hit the pads.

Just less wear and tear on your body. Yeah, because it's like, you know my guy's sitting there holding pads he's not he's not really given his opinion to me you know where it's like like my one of my biggest issues is my feet feet and my toes uh and it's like stupid shit you know like i'll go to step and my big toe will decide not to pick up and then it's like you step on it and it's like hear a crunch and like fuck like now i'm going to be limping for a couple weeks totally normal and then and then it's going to go knee hip back and i'm going to be all fucking thrown out technical term is

cattywampus yeah uh so that's like that's the only issue i think i think i'm going to have to roll you know more controlled like you know and and and maybe take the the uh you know normal classes as opposed to like the grappling you know for mb may and shit like that but uh i i love it and i i'll never like at this point at this point i can't afford to like get away from it right At least like, like there has to be some type of like fitness, physical fitness because like, and particularly like lifting and shit. Because I think if I lose too much strength in my back, then it's just going to be completely fucked. I don't think even if I was like my body didn't have any mileage on it, which is far more mileage on it than I would like. I think emotionally and mentally I would fall apart without a physical.

challenge. I mean, I'll turn 45 this year. My illusions have been able to give the sticks to the 18 to 20 year old fuck boys. It's like I want to, but at some point it's like, and the beauty is, you know, we were talking about this when we were walking over to get a coffee. I think jujitsu can be for everybody. Pick the, like a good Matt culture and a training partner. If you start when you're 60, like expectation management.

If you're starting into 40s, expectation management or 30s or 20s or whatever it may be, but I have to have something challenging to do. Otherwise, my mind will literally come unwound. Yeah. In the physical aspect, I mean, I want to be as capable as long as possible. But yeah, thankfully, I'm at least learning a little bit so I can, you know, control the dynamic a little bit. I mean, that's maybe the best you could hope for in our elderly statesman careers. Like, one of the reasons that, like, I didn't only start training just to fight.

Like, I'm a little shit, man. Like, you're not that little. You're, like I said, average height for a woman. Like, like, 170-ish pound, you know? Like, I used to be about 20 pounds heavier, but, like, you know, 170, 175, 5-8. Like, I also like the ability to be able to defend myself. Like, that is a reason why I train. And, like, you know, like, you know, like, uh,

Like with the med thing yesterday, too, it's like, I fucking love hearing that shit. Yeah. Because, you know, it's not for me. I don't do, I don't, I don't go to bars and get fucking drunk. I don't. Why would you fight in a bar when you get paid? You can't fight me. Like, I don't go those places where I'm going to get into a fight.

But sometimes that shit finds you. And the thing. The world will find you. Yeah. And the thing is, is like, my family is almost always with me. Yeah. So it's like, man, like, I want to be able to fuck somebody up as long as I can for my kids, you know? So like, and then there's, you know, like, I want to hike around the mountains and shoot shit, too.

And, like, being in shape is, you know, beneficial with that. But, yeah, like, being able to defend yourself. Like, my dad, my dad is a cartoon character. He's, he was six four before he, like, squished himself a bit. um six four two 40 how tell was your mom five one okay um you came right in between the two yeah yeah uh fuck you got the short end of the gene pool like that one like my i'm it's funny because like stature wise like i'm just a micro version of my dad uh like his torso is like teeny tiny and he's got like a 37 inch in seam uh and like i've got the same inch and like i've got the

same inseam as my brother Dan and he's six point he's five inches taller than me with the same inseam and I'm like because my torso is like yeah you're gorilla yay big you know my my dad was always like the biggest baddest motherfucker you know like he's fucking bad shit crazy these days at 65 years old we we try not to talk like geopolitical shit because he's he's a fucking lunatic um but I like Love him the death. But like, I've seen, I've seen my dad do fucking crazy shit. Like, carry 800-pound beams on his shoulders.

Like, when we would frame houses, the fucking builder would never backfill. And so we'd be able to dump the main beams that go in the, you know, on the first floor. Yeah. Into the foundation. And his fucking ass would cinch his fucking tool belt as tight as he could. And he's tall enough that his shoulder would just hit the fucking beam perfectly. And he'd hoist that shit up and walk it over to the other side where it needed to be. And like, I've also seen him almost die on too many occasions.

Some, yeah, some stupid shit, you know, accidents and fucked up shit. I mean, hitting a head that would turn most people's brains to. mush and he's like I'm all right like so so him him being who he is and this like fucking just I shared a picture of him with

the wrestling team that I was on when I was like JV I was like five years old or something like that and he he looks like Mr. Incredible from the fucking cartoibles yeah like just his head is as big as everybody's fucking chest the fucked up part is my head is just as big as like just as big round as his

I don't I must look like a lollipop like because I I'll take fucking big dudes hats and I'll plop them on my head and sometimes it'll be fucking tight you know or I'll take my hat and put it on their head and I'll wiggle around like 6 4 260 guys like but yeah my dad is like he's got Homer Simpsonitis you know could fucking yeah like he's taken too many shots to the head. And I think that might have, might have been what has created the craziness.

You know? But, uh, yeah. So, so being the, the guy that could beat up, you know, the dad that could beat up all the other dads is like, that's high on my list. Yeah. You know? And then, like, having a mustache and, like, driving a big truck. Like, I can only do two of those three. Yeah.

Yeah. What kind of truck do you have? I have a, a ram, $2,500. It's pathetic. It is. I'm to Google that later. I love it. I'm a Ford guy.

Yeah. The F-350's treated me well. Yeah. Then I have an F-150. Slightly different, but. Closing thoughts from Jim Miller. Because we're still going to do a Q&A, but we've been out this for shit two and a half some hours. What do you want people to know that they don't know, other than you're below the average height of a man?

Yeah. But have an abnormally large head. Yeah. There's some questions coming up. actually come up, this episode will come out after the Q&A, but there's some questions about people asking about your advice in the MMA world, so I won't, I'll leave that for that, but what do you think? What would you want people to know about Jim Miller that they traditionally don't know? And then also, of course, where can they find you and buy your cookbook, which I'm

going to give a one-star review without reading. Yeah, that's all right. Yeah. I mean, you still have to do your part with the recipe. So, I don't know. I don't know. I consider myself a pretty open book. You know, like, I kind of dove into the media, you know, social media shit. Like, I didn't want to do it. And it's like, you kind of have to for what you do. Yeah. And then it's like, oh, well, might as well show people who I am.

And I pretty much do, you know, like, obviously I'm not telling about all the bullshit because that's what social media is. It's all the good shit and none of the bullshit. I mean, occasionally I'll rant about stupid stuff. But, yeah, I don't know. Like, there's nothing, I don't think there's anything people need to know about me that they don't already know, you know, except I have poop my pants as an adult. My theory is you actually haven't lived as an adult until you either shit your pants one time. Yeah.

That could be through alcohol consumption, which I'm not recommending. Bingo. It could be through. And two dozen clamps. Bad mix. That could be through a dioxin. through a dioxycycline. It could be, you know, but live dangerously.

Live on the edge. Find the edge and just step just back from it. Because if you say that you haven't, you're fucking lying. There's somebody who was talking about skiing the other day. I feel like I get to this point where speed and control are fighting. I'm like, yes, that's where you should live. Yeah, no, like about me, I don't know. You do seem to be pretty open about who you are.

It's not like you're putting on a persona. You're just you. Yeah, I try to be. And, like, yeah, like, I could, like, I could shut, you know, you could shut the social media shit off and, like, I'd be kind of cool with it. I feel like your life would not change at all, which I think is a good indication that you're living your true life. Like, the beginning of the lockdowns was fucking awesome to me because, like, I got to, you know, hang out with my family. and we really let you know you're going to the school once every two weeks so it was like planning meals and this and like

I don't know it was it was fun but on the flip side it's like there's a lot of cool people that I know throughout the country and shit yeah that uh that you know I fucking love like so you know there's that aspect aspect of it that I wouldn't want to give up but uh I don't know Where can people find your cookbook? They can find my cookbook at thefighterscookbook.com. It's really, it's a SEO dream right there. Yeah, you know, because it's not just some recipes.

It's also a story about how I used cooking and food to fight back against Lyme disease and kind of save my career and my life. Yeah. You know. because you know like real food is important like as we we touched on it before

like the the shit that we eat out of convenience I I can't stand it I can't stand folding sometimes and doing it obviously I do and as do I but

like my big hang up lately is like this fake meat shit like fuck that like I'll never Rob Wolf, the guy who's on the mats today with us, dude, you had to pick his brain about that. Yeah. I mean, he understands shit at a molecular level. Half the time he'll start going down to rabbit hole.

I'm just like, like, huh? Rob, do you have English words for that shit that you're talking about? You're saying it's bad, right? Okay, cool. I'll just do that. Yeah, there's something there is just, I don't get it. I don't get it. I understand that, like, you know, some people with the moral shit and fucking veganism and stuff like that.

We were talking about that at the car. I understand the moral aspect of it, but I also think, and I have no judgment of anybody who wants to live their life however they want to, as long as it's not hurting and predatory on somebody else, I really don't give a shit. But I feel like on that particular issue, you have to have some intentional blind spots to kind of get to land to where you think it's not harmful or less. There's just pros and cons to everything. Why can't we just be honest and have open conversations about it? So you're saying you don't have any like, what are they called? Impossible burger recipes in the fighters cookbooks? Yeah, the fuck I do.

Oh, fuck. I had posted a video about it the other day. Like, I'd made these fucking burgers. And it's like, I found them in the store. I can't remember the name off the top of my head. I actually took a picture of them. And it says, like, made from, you know, whole muscle and shit like that. When I cook a burger, I'm not super, like, temping and, you know, timing things.

Like, it's just fucking. push on it and if it gives you enough rebound you're good to go and if the if the other stuff is ready then it's ready yeah right every time i've cooked these burgers which is half a dozen to a dozen times they look exactly the fucking same and i am not that guy that cooks my burgers exactly the same every time and then i saw a commercial for them and they looked exactly like they do in the commercial in the commercial and i was like i got so grossed out i was like dude i'm fucking never ever buying these fucking shits again you know just a preformed fucking patty like they're delicious they're fucking and that's what everybody says about they're convenient

this lab this lab grown shit or these fucking impossible shit have you ever tried one of the uh i will not i travel by accident will not i don't i won't do it i got one bite into the uh the one that i was handed accidentally yeah and i got i i chewed and swallowed that bite and then took a look at it i was like uh it actually just gave me the willies like you know Yeah. It's not for me. And again, I don't have any judgment on people who want to go down that path. Not for me.

It's kind of like, like Rogan said about Bill Gates. Like, this guy's going to tell you what to fucking eat? I believe he had a few things to say after saying that. Yeah, yeah, like. Bill Gates, I think he's a super villain, but that's, I think, for a different time. Because, like, if you. We can have that at the Q&A session. I don't know enough about him to say, yeah or nay.

He lost out. There's an interview I'm talking about the antitrust back you know around 2000. He lost out on hundreds of billions of dollars when he got broken up by the by the government, which is motive. He's had plenty of time. He's got resources and if you hear him talk about it. It's like meh, what's a couple hundred billion here or there? And it's like, wait, what? Now you're buying up farmland.

telling us what we should eat you're fucking talking about all this other stuff i'm not going to say it because you might get pulled from youtube but like fuck yeah fuck that guy all right like i said i don't know about him yeah fair enough maybe we'll just end there cool ready for q and a yeah