Cleared Hot - Powered By BRCC - Episode 233 - Mike Glover and Evan Hafer

Episode Date: May 16, 2022

Mike Glover spent 18 years in the US Army and as a government contractor for OGA (Other Government Agency). He served as a SGM (Sergeant Major) in Special Forces in various positions and deployed multiple times to combat theaters. He is an expert in Counter-Terrorism, security, and crisis management operations and is the host of the Fieldcraft Survival Podcast on iTunes and Soundcloud. Mike is an avid outdoorsman, overland, traveler, and hunter. He has a bachelor's degree in Homeland Security and resides in Utah, where he is the CEO of Fieldcraft Survival. Evan Hafer is the founder and CEO of Black Rifle Coffee. Prior to his current role, he spent twenty years serving this country, first as a Special Forces soldier (Green Beret), then as a contractor for the Central Intelligence Agency, completing multiple tours to Iraq and Afghanistan.

Okay, got the red smoke. Gun runs. North and south. West of the smoke. West up of smoke. Okay, copy. West of the smoke. I'm looking at danger close now.

How are we doing audio right now? Are we just going to do loaves? You have a lot hooked up to you? I know. I'm just wondering if that's, if that you're good with that? Yeah. Okay. I'm just checking.

Is that going to be audio is going to be good? Yeah. Are you monitoring? What do you think about that? Yeah. I think it's awesome that you're doing. Have you done? Have you done?

Have you, have you, have you balanced audio with just a pure law podcast before? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, the last one we did. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Just checking.

Just making sure. Yeah. I don't. Hey. I don't like to leave like. It's a good question. It's a good question. Oh, fuck yeah.

John did not like that. He was offended. Who did? We'll talk about that later, John. Yes, sir. Why does he have iPro on? Because he's always prepared for ballistic. capable

gator's glasses courtesy of you these are actually really nice glasses thank you for these you're welcome I hate him I hate him

that's exactly why I didn't give you a pair because I gave you multiple pairs before I hate them what do you not like about them my head I've got a fucking really wide head

which is surprising because he has a really fucking wide head super wide but look at how wide mine is is your head really white you know your hands are pretty big I know

these do not fit my fucking wide head. They fit this fucking Asian wide head. They don't fit my... No, they bear it. Look. They're bad. Yeah. They're malleable. Yeah, you can't. You can't, because when I bend them back out, every pair I've ever had, I can't bend them to make them comfortable.

They fit good though. Like, I can't bend them to make them comfortable. That's why I only brought one pair and they weren't for you. That's... Because I gave you a bunch and I recognized that you never wore them. So I was like, because they're really uncomfortable for me. For you. For you. Now, I recognized why people like them for skydiving because they're amazing they slide in your helmet real easily so I'm just got to get maybe an extra wide see the size of your hands there you go

hey baby you have some big ass hands for for don't be trying to cheat don't be trying to cheat girl I like you yeah still bigger but for jet like that's super oppressive hold on to make Evan feel I I have here's an interesting fact about me right which is I have I have I have a have like something like 300 or 400% more Neanderthal my genetics than most people so I'm like Jew Neanderthal it's weird so really makes sense a really strange cromagnum strange blend Jew Neanderthal no those gators are awesome I just had those uh had those made this isn't a commercial I know it's like a commercial you're drinking what are you drinking right now I love that couple.

God damn it. What do you guys want to talk about? Oh, I've got something I want to start off with. Okay, I'm going to start off with. Is it a review of your jump footage or what are we talking about? No, I want to start this with this, which is, I was thinking about that, this, this specific topic, which I thought you guys would enjoy. I have decided that the problem with our society is that the gatherers somehow have been put in charge of the hunters. Whereas up until about 50 years ago,

and I traced it back, my theory is when I'm tracing it back to the... What the fuck is me doing? Like, we lost, like, the real hunters lost the Clinton election because H.W lost to Clinton, right? You're tracking with me? You're going to, okay, I got you. I just...

I think that in modern society, I think hunters lost control to the gather. And that's what's fucking broken in our society is because the gatherers were actually never meant to be in charge. But where the hunters have the strength or capacity to be in charge because they capitulate for emotion too easily. But wouldn't it also be dangerous to have only the hunters in charge as well? I think it's worked out great. I think it's worked out great.

Where? I'm just saying, I've worked all the way way through this. I think I understand what you're saying, but I think it's supposed to be a balance. I think balance in all things is what is good for longevity. I don't think the pendulum extremes. I think we're seeing the pendulum extremes right now, and it appears to me, a very non-educated person, that it's a shit show. It's a shit show. I agree.

I'm saying from a novice anthropologist, which is my self. I like to call myself a novice anthropologist. That's what I like to do. Either way, I think that there's too many collective voices from people that have little to zero context for life reality or their life reality is, like, it's too isolated for them to have a legitimate voice. So we were talking about this either way, just like 10 minutes ago. Like rich white liberals are some of the worst people in society.

Like they're like crazy. They're crazy people. They hate themselves. Yeah, I went to this thing in Salt Lake a few weeks ago. And they look really unhealthy. Like I went and we did this Easter thing. Like it was supposed to be fun. We went to this neighborhood.

And the neighborhood is like, it's Easter egg gathering. It's like one of the whitest things I've ever done in my life. It's just like, I'm not even fucking around. It's like acoustic guitars and like all their kids are so fucking translucent. They're like so white. They're translucent. Because they rarely go outside. Yeah.

They never go outside. They're all on fucking soy milk. You know what I mean? They're all like drinking soy milk. There's no protein. They're probably all fucking like vegan cereals. They're like they look unhealthy. As a general population, their skin is almost like translucent like a jellyfish.

And they have, I would imagine, somewhat cerebral intellectual driven jobs. So there's no physicality of. their circumstance and then they're they're they're kind of continuing on this trend of what what i just assumed as like these people are all gathers there's not one person here in this collective there's like a couple hundred people there's like there's not one person here that's ever been punched in the mouth there's not one person here that's ever been like had to kill something to eat it they're just too disconnected from the realities of society i think i don't know disconnection is probably dangerous i don't

I mean, I don't know. I try not to judge people on whatever political ideology that they may have. But I think the disconnection from the realities of life is incredibly dangerous. I don't know where the liberal versus conservative fits into that. Because there's some fucking cuckoo, maga-choo-train people on the right that are equally insane. Absolutely. I'm not debating that. But I also think some of their issues, though, are a massive disconnection from reality.

So I think that the disconnection might be more dangerous than the political ideology behind it. I'm also an idiot though. So who knows whether or not any of that's true. You're qualifying this. We're all qualifying. What are we going to name this? Like three idiots talk about the society.

Two idiots and a dumb dumb. Yeah. Two idiots and a dumb bum. Yeah. No. No. There's a thing that was released a couple weeks ago that Korean children raised in Korea

have an average of, it's something like 18 points IQ higher than American kids because they're not dumb. Well, no, they're not being pushed. Yeah. Parents don't push their kids. Yeah. Because you're handing all the education over to the institution. And obviously the institution would take care of your children except that's not happening.

When I went to school in Fayetteville, North Carolina. Bad ass. A horrible school system. What? what the worst for pha don't phaeton phaedanom the worst school system i literally because i played football had teachers that would be like you don't need to do that yeah you know you don't have to do nothing like no you're a football player yeah that's a good point and the teachers were all i had two teachers that were both veterans that were squared away my social studies teacher is a black guy and he was

super squared away you can tell he had the military like like you could tell he had discipline and all the values from the military and he entrusted um that experience with like how he taught and how he led and it was amazing and i was like dude this dude's like squared away like this could be you know this is awesome he's a mentor and then you had other teachers who just didn't give the crap they just were there to collect the paycheck and that's normal for the school public school institution that's my home school and my kids they will never go to school really i will home dude so you went to public school yes Public school?

Public school. Okay, same. That was dirt poor. Yeah. But look, so looking back on your life, though, I never, did you go anything beyond high school? Yeah, went to college. Okay. To fuck off.

Mike? I got a bachelor's degree after 15 years of. Sweet. So, nickel and diving. I'm truly at the bottom of the ladder on this one. I graduate at high school with. How did you be coming off? 1.8.

That's when they were giving away. Well, sometimes they have what they call a gap. Manning. And they're like, fuck, we need to take everybody who put an application in. Wow, really? Yeah.

No, the program that I was commissioned through did not require a college degree. Wasn't it like the Vietnam era Battlefield Commission? Did you get a Battlefield Commission? It was basically a battlefield commission. I did, but it was in Coronado.

Badass. Yeah. So what was the battlefield you were fighting in Coronado? It was like beating off the Bud students. You were beating them off all of them?

You can take that however you would want to. You said beating the hall. Now, going back to high school, though, think of only the public school system that you guys went through. How much of the education that you got are you actually falling back on in your current life or previous careers? Because a lot of people will talk very poorly

about the public school system, even though all three of us are products of that. I actually... I had really good teachers. I had good teachers, too, but the most important class truly that I think I took in high school was typing. It is actually the skill that I use

every single day. I did too. I enjoyed English, which gave me a better understanding of the English language and math. Math was big, like math, even though it sucked because it wasn't challenging for an Asian kid who grew up in math. Yeah. I used

math more in business than anything else I've ever done and I wish, I mean, I wish I had the business experience in math, whether that was college and learning financing, because it's the most critical component to business that people don't pay attention to. My point in that, though, is applicable. Was I'm not so sure how much of an impact if you were to cut it into a pie.

I think a lot of external life circumstance, I think the education system is important, but the family dynamic, the example that's set for you being pushed by your parents, Like, you know what I mean? I grew up Santa Cruz, California, public school system, played a couple of sports, joined the military. And I don't think that the three of us met each other or had been successful in our lives only because of the education. I think it's an easy thing for people to point out and be like, oh, this is, it's terrible.

But I think there is a lot more to it than that. For sure. So. Well, I mean, when I look at, you know, on the Army side, our peers you just take a detachment like a team 10 out of 12 dudes are good at their job one to two dudes on that team are super high speed and squared away right the rest are just call them mediocre in that element like they that's your average belker that's your average yeah yeah so you know we're talking about 2080 like we're talking about yeah so when you think about

entrepreneurship even like the in the military we might have had exceptional careers or pass and did things above and beyond normal but even being outside of the military if I look at all the detachments I was on 10 out of 12 could not do what we're doing now because they didn't have the people skills they don't like there's some guys who just don't want to interoperate sure they just want to kick indoors and shoot bad guys in the face or they just want to like be introverts and do their thing they never want to be in points of leadership because they want to be the team guy um and there's different roles but like being an entrepreneur and even doing like this stuff like a podcast um where you have to communicate

and you figure it out over time but that's where we're at not a lot of guys have that capability and i think it's a i don't know what it is because i put you two and a few others like the joccos and not many, Sean Ryan, there's Tim Kennedy, only a few guys that have that ability to do that business level and then also communicate to civilians that way. And I don't know what it is. It's different. I don't think it's the schooling. It's not.

It's definitely not. I think it's an important base. I think it's like you have to establish some form of intellectual capacity. the intellectual understanding, whatever we want to say. But those are hard schools. I don't think they teach you how to study or how to learn, how to do any of those things. Would you guys say the Green Bray pipeline screens for intelligence?

It does, yeah. No, it does directly because you have to have, I mean, the ASVAB is not really an IQ test. I guess it is. It's skill and IQ. GT score, your GT score has been 1-10 or above. 10 or above. The Azab may not point directly at your IQ, but perhaps it's swinging a spotlight in that direction.

Yeah. And then they have, but then they have a bunch of other. There's a lot of tests. There's a lot of tests. There's a lot of academics. Really? It's a ton of academics. Psychological evaluations.

Yeah. There's a ton of those in seal training too. Yeah. A lot of. No. No. You didn't take the 500 question. The only time I took a shrink test, the psychological assessment test was for my screening for the East Coast.

Oh, yeah. It was the bubble test. Right. And I only remember it because the questions were so absurdly bizarre. Do you want to be a bot? Do you want to be a florist? Do you like flowers? Is the whole jump your favorite televised event?

Yeah. And it's not yes or no. Strongly agree. Agree. Oh, yeah. I know that one. Yeah. Disagree, strongly disagree.

There's no yes, no. Yes. I took that one before. Yeah. And then you spit it through a Scantron. It's, what did they call? The Briggs-Mire personality test like that? Yes.

Which I don't remember what the answer was. And then that was the only time. No, so the seal pipeline is Past ASVAB I was going to say 50 but I think that's far too low But it wouldn't shock me if it was 50 So minimum score You need to have a heartbeat

The ability to do eight pull-ups Right Like 50 push-ups, 50 sit-ups and swim and run Right But there were no There was a demo test in Thursdays There's a diving physics test in second phase phase, but those are specifically skill set related to the things that they've taught you.

They're just, you know, do this calculation on this time fuse. If you're at, you know, 80 feet underwater for 40 minutes, what's your decompression stuff? Stuff that you're doing in those phases. But there are... I get the same thing on Patty. Essentially a seal. Same. True.

Yeah. You have to try a tattoo, so it makes sense. I mean, we're in San Diego. If you guys want to go get Triton Tats, I can line that up for tonight. That'd be fun. That'd be sweet. I'd be in it for the podcast. Just knuckles?

Yeah. Yeah. Seal, S-E-A-L. Yeah. Right across the thing. So what type of test? You could do that, actually. Maybe, yeah.

Yeah. I'm sure there's got to be one or ten that have that. It's hard to say. Navy seal. Green. Yeah, you can't use it. Yeah. What are the tests that you guys took for intelligence in the Q-Course?

There's a technical test. There's a technical, it's like the, the the different puzzle like where it's like the you have there's lines and shapes yeah that's an IQ test yeah yeah that's part of the Q course yeah yeah the psyche vowel the 500 question one mm-hmm would you rather be a florist yeah a botanist or like trade your ass for money in San Francisco and you're like I don't fucking know yeah do they disqualify people due to the results of those tests you do oh yeah you lose a lot

of guys in selection because of that interesting I wonder what What would happen if they actually... You have those seals? It's possible. They have changed the pipeline since I went through. It's actually vastly different. But to my knowledge, the testing only comes later on. They put a lot of money into trying to figure out the athletic backgrounds and personality types of who is going to make it through.

A lot of swimmers over there, I would imagine. Crew is the number one... Right. What is that? Crew? Rowing. Two-person crew. Huh.

Is the number one identifying factor for somebody who is... going to make it through buds that is what do you mean really interesting competitive rowing yeah the person who's a competitive rober has the highest probability of the why is that followed by uh chess players yeah i can see that you guys are full of chess players yeah he seemed really smart super high level thinkers i thought you were queen to rook six chinese checkers is he meant that yeah yeah yeah that's super racist so sorry well he is chinese so oh also racist he's obviously Korean. I've known him for so long.

I'd be 5.3 if I was Chinese. Tao, do I name. They put an immense amount of taxpayer money in people's time into a pre-screening program with the whole goal of a pre-screening and training pipeline to try to increase throughput

and to my knowledge, it stayed exactly the same. Right. But you had a, your honor man from your class was a serial murder. Seriously? He murdered two people. He wasn't a serial murder. He just was denied parole.

He has to be let out in 2030. I'm trying to book him now. Yeah, that'd be great. He was the honor man from your class. Correct. The honor man of class... I thought you were. No, absolutely not.

Yeah. I was a seaman of princess stump at the time. The honor man was a guy named Ben Seifred. Who, and people listening to this podcast, be like, shut the fuck up about Sifred. It's a fascinating story. I'll talk about it whenever I want to. Is he the dude that killed, like, another couple of the...

Yeah, they lured him back to... Triangle or some shit. Lured him back to their apartment. That's right. Shot them in the bathtub, disassembled them with the spider co. Wrapped them into garbage bags. He used to work at a grocery store,

so he knew the pace with which they switch out the dumpsters. So they deposited the body there. Then they went and robbed Hooters. Got caught stealing T-shirts from Hooters. The officer who showed up in the wife's purse was the identification cards of the people. that we're missing and a spider coat knife with like flesh

and hair still in the serrated portion of them. They were doing this as a couple? Yes. Yeah. Soulmates, man. Wow. Right or guy. That that is a rom-com waiting to happen. I think do you know the best part? Lifetime? You know what I mean? You pick that up. So here's the best part

about this story. The arresting officers have found the podcast and I've reached out to me. Oh, are you kidding me? Oh, it's fucking awesome. And did what? They're just like, hey, just so you know, we arrested that guy, and if you ever want to talk about it, we can totally fill you in. Sweet! And he just was up for parole, was denied,

but has to be released in 2030. And his wife... How many years did he get? Shit, this was in 02. He was in prison, so... I mean, you're the quant. What would it be? 20? Carried the 1. 22.02 to 20, 22 years. Very good. That's 20 years.

Good job, buddy. Yeah. John, give me the answer to that. Yeah. Fuck. Asia in the back. Secondary quant. Let's get a numbers check on that. So, yeah, he'll be close to 30 years in prison. His wife is in for life.

Was she believed? I believe that she was the one who it was pinned on, was kind of driving the entire thing. It's pretty interesting how you would go from killing and dismembering a couple, right, to let's steal some shirts at Hooters. Like this doesn't seem, Like a crime spree. This seems more of like

a hobby. Were you guys just really, really fucked up? I think so. They had to have been, right? He was kind of a touched person to begin with. Right.

He would be, like, as an example, we all know somebody who, if we were five years from now to see his mugshot and be like, this person

was luring kids into an ice cream van down by the river. Obviously, I'm talking about Jack Carr, right? If he's just his mug shot, you'd be like, get that face. You'd be like, yeah, okay, he kind of looks like. He's a little, I've told him this. I'm like, you have a pedophile's beard and you should shave it immediately.

It's, yeah. It's like a little, it's like a little. And I'm not saying that. It's like it looks fake. I'm not saying that Jack is going to do these things. I'm just saying hypothetically five years from now we see his mug shut. You'd be like, hmm. Saw it coming.

So this kid, I was in selection and there was like a, corkboard. I was like getting ready to leave for the day and pinned up on I like walk past had one of those moments where you hear the record like, took a few steps backward and looked at it, saw who it was and read the top. I was like, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, yeah. Damn. So, and for clarity, the honor man in Buds, it has nothing to do with honor. Yeah, what do the person? It's like a divvich. For him, it was he did not physically fail an evolution throughout the entire training. Wow. Did you feel a physical evolution? I did. I felt an ocean swim one time, of all things, as a water polo player.

Is this time? You can really screw yourself and your dive buddy if you're not good at navigating. You spend a lot of time doing... Totally. And so pairing up with the right person, actually, I would say the ability to navigate or guide properly is almost as important, if not more important, than your ability to swim. Right. So I was...

I mean, I played water polo. So it's crawl, stroke. I'm not used to swimming these extended in buds. You can't have more than your elbow come out of the water. It has to be an underwater recovery stroke. And there's like a boat that you can see on every fifth swell. So yeah, I was like, maybe we'll go towards San Clemente Island for a bit. And maybe we'll come back into the shore.

And then let's just go over here. It's my bad. My bad. Would you have made a good seal? Can you swim? I don't know, man. Well, first off. I don't know.

And during the area that you served in, you would have been just fine because the total number of water operations that I have actually conducted to my operational career is zero. Right. So you guys would have been just fine. Yeah.

I've done a maritime op. Maritime ops in Iraq with your guys, the SWIFT guys, yeah. Yeah. Land 160th Lewis, get in the boats, drive the stealth boats down the river. Oh, yeah. Get off, hit the target, come back in.

You walk like a total of 10 feet. stealth boats are a seeker but i mean i guess it's out now what's self yeah you used the word stealth all it is just a yeah it's just a black it's just a black stove but good job yeah yeah yeah you're paddling it's the stealth boat is like i don't know you guys both would have made spectacular seals the more i've been around the special operations community there's almost no difference between the guys there's like no difference like they're really at gRS you'd have guys or you're like, okay, that's a forced guy, that's a ranger, that's this, that's that, whatever.

And after a while, you're like, yeah, it doesn't matter. Oh, there's dirt bags and everybody has a dirt bag. Yeah. Most of the time, I don't know what this means about me, but most of the time I'd look around, like, all these guys are really squared away. And they always say that there's supposed to be one dirt bag

in the group. And I'd be like, all these guys are squared away. So I don't know how that worked out. But did you pick that up? Yeah. I thought in OGA, there was a lot of squared away dudes. I know. People talk about it like it's like oh there's these dudes are so fucked up and I'm like

I actually worked with all the dudes and I can't remember really any dudes that were really jacked. Who would they say was fucked up? They'd be like oh it's in general maybe there's disgruntled dudes. It's like guys saying like team guys are rest up and like yeah sure I ran into a couple but team guys isn't seals. Oh SF guys yeah but even seals I mean I work with all there's some there's been some train wrecks. This single worst experience I ever had with somebody in the special operations community was a captain,

a Greenberry captain. Those are like, that's horrible, man. But here's a mistake, though. And this happens often, because I know this happens with people, they'll meet a seal or they'll have a few bad interactions and they judge the community by it. I just had a hatred and disdain for this individual. And I'm like, I don't really care what pipeline you came through. I don't like you. And I don't.

They only get two years of team time. Total. Where do they go after that? The worst Greenberry I ever met was a fucking captain. Me too. The worst, the worst Greenberry I ever met was a captain. He's a former enlisted guy.

He's a former 18 Delta. And then he became captain. He's fucking horrible. No, he was like, just a, like, it's unbelievable how the system just allows people like continue to fail into it.

But to fail upward or fail forward? Yeah, they kind of fail upward. It was like, you know, he's fucking fat, like sucked at everything. thing he did and he's just kind of an asshole and you're just like geez man you're you're there's really not a lot of redeemable qualities here you're not a good planner you're kind of a coward like you're fat like it's just kind of like god how did you how did you get here like what is it that you you wouldn't make a good logistics guy like how did you get here and you honestly just kind

of scratch your head and go what the fuck and they hold that rank too it's yeah well where do they And the bigger dirtbag they are, the more they utilize their rank to emphasize power because they have to, because they have no credibility or respect by anybody else because they're like, you know, fat, lazy, incompetent boobs. Like the worst guys I've ever met were all SF officers. Yeah, same. If they only get a two-year rotation operation operationally at an ODA, where do they go after that? Staff, and then they go to their war college to get a master's degree.

Yep. And then they come back and take company command. So they only... So they are actually achieving positions of greater influence. Yeah. Yeah. With only two years of operational experiences, they're lucky they get one combat rotation.

Maybe two. I actually, I was thinking about this. I was talking to somebody about this the other day. I was like, they should turn the, um, they should make the ODA team leader slot, just a warrant slot. Just give it a,

Because an 03 coming into a team after you have like E6, E7, E8s like that have been there for a while, like they literally offer zero to nothing. And so, and they're there for two years. Their summer help, right? It's like you're there for two years. You're fucking summer help. And then you go on to do something else. Like, fucking give it to warrants or you can say, well, we're going to extend this period of time.

So you're actually here to create value and you're going to be here for an extent. Like bring them in. create them like interns and then give them like four years there yeah but yeah they don't even understand how it works but that's how they leave they're like they're just then getting it it's a check the block if you are on the elicistice side in an oDA can you stay there for an extended period of time yeah yeah yeah you can you can stay on the other day level past long time yeah so you can go if you go back to warrant like yeah go in the warrant go in the intel routes and become an 18 fox which is an intel sergeant then you become a warrant I know guys there's

a path there there's guys who have 20 years of team time i mean they just they know how to navigate it yeah like i never got hit with a swick monster because i bounced to um to different levels of units and then never knew that if i just kept rotating that the swick special warfare center wouldn't hit me up to be an instructor so there's and i would stay operational there's other guys who are just like I'll take this where it takes me and then they get scarfed up by SWIC

or they do two, three years of team time and that's it and then they're in a B team position they're in a SWIC position and you're like you've never been to war like how is that possible like you've probably been avoiding the war anyway

I'm with you like if I would have judged as I was just based on officers. I would fucking hate it too. Funny thing. Funny story. I had an SF officer, one of my,

like, one of the worst SF officers I've ever had was while I was at the Q-course, Lieutenant Colonel Mars, so hopefully you're listening to this. He, um... Nice.

He... He... We signed a petition to get this guy kicked out of the Q-course. He was a lieutenant colonel? Yeah, so he was running Swick. So he was the lieutenant colonel going to like he was running SWIC. When you guys say SWIF.

Oh, he was in charge of the SWIC. He's in charge of SWIC. Is SWIC the cadre that oversees the Q course? Yeah, exactly. So we had, as 18 echoes, we had signed a petition to get this guy removed. And we were Com's guys because he was a piece of shit. He was a fucking complete asshole. And he's also a piece of shit. So we're like, why is this guy continuing to go through the evolutionary phases? And so we all went on to phase three. which is called Robin Sage, and a bunch of us, all of us,

the entire class actually signed up. And this dude held us in formation at parade rest for like three and a half hours before he came out to talk to us. So we're all like prayed rest in the fucking North Carolina son for like three hours. And he finally comes out

and then he's like fucking screaming. Like screaming at all of us. Like when I joined SF, it was all full of a bunch of fucking drug addicts and this ain't a fucking democracy. Fucking blah blah. and we were like we're all just standing there so i'm sitting there and like halfway through this i was like i'm gonna go join the navy fuck this guy i was like fuck this guy i was like fuck this guy like fuck this dude

because and he goes does anybody have any fucking questions and i was like i'm like the only dumb ass to raise my hand well rank me at this point e6 and uh i was like yeah so why do we do peer reviews if they don't actually work because that's kind of a whole thing we have to do a peer review and i don't know what once a month or some shit yeah i was like so if you can't get peered out why do we even do them which i thought was a very legitimate question yeah and i thought his head detached from his body and then he levitated and he was like who is fucking dirtbags like you and i was like well i'm just fucking curious why everybody around you's like a grenade oh no go off everybody around me just started like drift away and uh and he's like who who the fuck are you

heifer oh okay i got you i'm like jesus don't i don't ask questions i guess you know no fuck okay and um and walking away and my god one of my buddies like comes up to me is like whispers to me he's like you're you're fucking super dumb or you have like the biggest fucking balls i've ever fucking seen. I'm like maybe a combination of both because my balls are pretty big and I might be a little bit dumb. I'm all balls. But yeah, I end up going to sear with this dude because he had to go to sear in order to be in command of sear school. And it was hilarious because he was a fucking giant bag of shit like a complete bag of shit. He was like going through the RTL, you know, where you're getting fucking tuned up. Oh, the slappy can. Yeah, slapy. Yeah.

Yeah, Camp Slappy. And he's doing everything wrong. He's like, I'm a fucking colonel. S.F. You can't do this. And we're all just like, you're not supposed to be doing that? Like, are you? Did you not pay attention?

Go in your circle, man. God damn, you know? Get back in your circle. He's like, the dude's getting tossed around and he's getting fucking slapped. Like you're out in front of everybody. Well, his fucking pants fall down. And so, you know, you're in your little like nurses uniform or whatever you got. His pants are like they're falling down around his knees.

Oh, yeah, that's right, they are. And so his fucking dick is, like, flapping around, and he's getting fucking hit in front of us. And I'm just going, oh, oh, I hate you so much. Please do this for two more hours more. I love watching this. And, um, but he was a legitimate idiot. Like, that was the first time in my military career.

Yeah. I was looking at somebody going, you're a lieutenant colonel, but you're also a idiot. Like a full. charge of everybody yeah i thought maybe this guy had like had a portion of his frontal lobe removed he was so fucking stupid and he was also lazy so he's like lazy and stupid and i was like oh well geez like what a fucking asshole like he's lazy and stupid so he made it through of course he did yeah it's like he's like you know where do you guys go to sphere school when where so i went to uh uh so i went to uh

The units, Sear, went to Sear C at Swick and Bragg. Yeah, so did I. And then I went to all of the 215, 245, all the J-Sox. I would have a clue to any of those things, mean. They're all like the dance. Yeah, you went to, you went to some of them. Basic Sear. Yeah.

In the mountains of here of San Diego. I was paired up with a F-A-T. What are you looking for? That's not, there's not a camp sloppy, right? What? That is where the sloppy camp occurs. Oh, yeah, yeah. That's the seal.

Don't look at me like this. It's basic Navy Sears School. Yeah. What do you need another cup for? What? Where is Evan going? You can do that. You get, Mike, you get a laugh.

He just wants to change cup. Different branding. Brought you RCC on it, the marker. Yeah. Then there was the, I think it was high risk Sears School at the end of selection. Yes. They sat us down with the JPRA guys and did like voice. they do MTT blood like all that stuff yeah that was a good one yeah yeah where they get you you're in

an audit you go to fort brag no it was all done up in Washington yeah oh yeah yeah yeah yeah where they sit you like you like you're in a fish bowl and you're getting slapped and you hear all of your classmates laughing at you because it's just like fucking you hear people yeah fucker it's being recorded yeah that's like my favorite school yeah yeah it's super fun did you go to a truck I don't know What was that one? High risk operations. Yeah. That was fun.

Here's a question for my favorite ones. You're rolled up by Iran. Yeah. And you're in an interrogation room and they lay out a pair of pliers. Right. And they're like whatever. How far would you take it before you gave them everything? They just have to take the pliers out.

They would be like, it would show me the pliers. They'd be like, okay. What else can I? They're going to fix the audio. They're like, I'm telling you everything. You're like, hey. Oh, we're just going to fix it. Okay, let's...

They're, like, bringing me some food, and I'm like, I'm going to tell you everything. Like, we haven't even started. Well, I thought the platter was full of all the tools. Like, I would have just jumped a gun. I'd be like, listen. My favorite... If you want me to convert?

You want me to convert over? I'm ready for this. Am I ready? Like, where do I take my enlistment of? I don't know. My favorite would be like, I would never tell them anything. Like, first off, I don't know anything that's important. So I don't know fucking Jack.

I'll make up fucking nuclear launch codes. Like, I'll tell you everything. I'll, like, as soon as you get, like, a tastical put into. Like a vice. Yeah, vice. Yeah. Like, yo, dude, you're telling me that, like, like, I've been around you. You fall out of a 10-mile run.

Like, what the fuck are you talking about? You're going to, like, oh, I'm going to go to dead. Yeah, you're not going to fucking do shit. Like, you can't even suck it up on, like, 170 beats per minute on a fucking run. Like, let alone put a fucking nut in a pair of vice grips. Like, you're done. You're fucking. Game over, dude.

And rightfully so, you shouldn't be telling me anything, nor should have you, like, ever. They shouldn't have ever told me anything. That's all I learned from those schools. I'm like, we can skip all this. I don't know anything, but I'll make stuff up. If you need to write something to report it back. Yeah. Like the secret word to get into the White House's purple unicorn.

Yeah. Go to the gate on the eastern side and say that. And they'll let you in. Yeah. They'll let you go see the president. Can I have a biscuit? Yeah. And it's been three hours since I've eaten.

So can we have a snack now? Those are fun courses They were, they were super fun. If you make it fun and you realize it's not for real There was people who got too deep into character There was people who were fucking insane. Did they do this one with you where they Hooded up obviously you go into the room

That's got like a table And this is like whatever you They'll tell you like, just shut the fuck up We're gonna take the hood off but you don't say shit And they ripped the hood off It'd be like me to you to another guy This happened in selection And they go into this thing

They're like Is this the guy you weren't telling us about the guy that works with you. Yeah. I just like, I've never seen this guy in my life. Like,

what? Get this shit out of me. And he's just like, yeah, that's Andy. Yeah, we're seals together. I'm just like,

who are you, dude? What the fuck? Who are you? Like, come on. Like, play the game a little bit.

No. Come on. That's Andy. We're seals. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, there was people who,

yeah, then there was people who had like created their own facade. Yeah, I don't know. I would just get into it. And I was like,

I was just having a lot of fun. It is fun. You're playing hide and seek. Yeah, you're playing a game. I just remember the RTL was like the most. It was like comedy, nonstop comedy. So far. Where you just see dudes like falling over because they're so fucking sleep deprived.

Did they waterboard people, you guys? Oh yeah, it was rad. I was like, I was like, I was going to say they did that right outside of my little cotton creek cubby. Put you in the fucking barrel where you can only like breathe out of your mouth. And like, and I'm like, I can breathe. Like this isn't freaking me out, man. I'm cozy.

Did they do the claustrophobia test with you? Yeah. Yeah, the small box. Not claustrophobic at all. Like, I took a nap in there. I liked a little box. Yeah, it's nice. It made me a good squeeze.

Let me tell you who was claustrophobic. Was the motherfucker in the box next to me? I almost had issues because I was laughing so hard. Like, it was the same thing. I never actually got to look at it because they put you in there with that hood on. I'm assuming it's just a very

Reconstricted wooden box. You can't sit down. You can't stand up. So I'm in there. And it's like you move around a little bit. I'm like, fuck, whatever. Like we are literally at a course of instruction. Yeah.

Not going to be a big deal. And then there's like three of us in there. And the fucking box to my left, I'm just listening. I'm like, why is this dude breathing this hard? And then it starts rattling a little bit. And then the screaming and wailing that came out of that box. Their experience and my experience was very different. I was almost pissing myself laughing.

It was fucking spectacular. Yeah. I had the same experience with it as a really good friend of mine. And I was like, Greg, shut the fuck up. Greg, I'm trying to sleep. Shut the fuck up. And then he busted out of it. And he started running around in there.

And I just remember this fucking tack. And it was, I think Randy was there. You remember Randy worked with us. and R2? Yeah. Yeah. And I think Randy came in. What the fuck are you doing?

And he's like running around and there. I've got to get the fuck out of here. I got to get the fuck out of here. It was so awesome. God, it was so much fun. I like serious school. Yeah, it was awesome. Like, I just wanted it.

The thing that I really wanted was, like, run it for real. Like, if I E&E and I win, then I win. If I bust out of here for real, like, I get to fuck. and bust out of here. Before they put you in the camp, though, so for us, it was like two days leading up to it, we would do navigation. It had to be pairs, and they would have, like,

roving patrols out. Tames him, yeah. And then eventually, though, there would be the siren and you had to report to the vehicle. Yeah. Yeah. Because I got separated from my... I got separated from my partner.

I forget what the hell he did. It was a pilot. And I had looked at the map enough that I knew where I needed to go, so I just terrain navigated there and got there by myself. And he showed up in the back fucking truck and then we were let free but then we had to eventually go to the alarm and then it's

like everybody gets slapped around like well that would have been sweet if you actually if you and e not to e and e for real i did some of like my best jokes ever were during serious school like some of my best jokes i've ever had in the middle of the rTO no on the on the on the e and e lane yeah i had um i i i went out and i found this fucking blackberry bush and i found a fuck ton of blackberries so i was like filling up canteen cups like i i had fucking cargo pockets full of them and before we walked back into the little camp what do they call those a little fucking wasn't a patrol base but you know what i mean like a little place where we were like had a little fire going or whatever i was like oh whoa my buddy was like wait wait wait wait let's do this and i took

a couple out and i like smashed them all over my face like i was like jamming berries in there and i was like walked in to walked in and everybody's sitting around the fire and they're like did you guys find any food

I was like no there's nothing out there he's fucking totally fucking dry nothing's out there and like your fucking

your fucking face you fucking you got shit over there you fucking god damn it and I was like

and dude was freaking the fuck out like he was freaking the fuck out I was like it's a fucking joke man like I got a fucking

pockets full of blackberries like this fucking joke chill out dude and it's only been like two days yeah it's like two days man

a couple days Like, who cares? And, uh, like, it's like, one of my best jokes ever was, was that, was that. I had a couple others that were really good. It's fucking, because when people are sleep deprived, like, I thrive in that environment. Oh, I do too. That's like my comedic, yeah, it gives me energy. And then it's also one of my best comedic times because I know people are sucking and I'm taking all of their energy out of the way that they suck.

Yeah, you're feeding on. And I'm feeding on them because it's called the vampire effect. So it's giving me more. energy and then I can really be like one of the single most funny people you've ever been around and like times that really suck I'm a real prick super fun for everybody just talking about you tumbling out of the airplane today I mean which one of you are we going to talk about I had we both tumbles I had some great tumbles I don't think mine was really a tumble what would you describe it as he did like a cartman oh I hit my rotating on multiple axes while

out of control technically yeah that sounds about right That's what I wanted to do. Every time that you were saying, like, dude, you got to fucking, you know, face relative wind. Evan yesterday goes... I don't want to do that. Evan yesterday shows up with the optimal amount of time to be briefed on the drop zone and aircraft before we get ready to go. Upon arrival. Upon arrival, I would say it was like, hey, what's up?

Put on the shoot. 10 minutes. 10 to 15 minutes maximum. But in that was the wavering period. Thank you, Jim, for being able to just sit there and just like, do, do, do, do. I think you were jocked up. and said, oh, I've never gone out of a side of the way. I've never gone out of a side there.

I mean, it was like, I get the camera step. Oh, nice. That was your first one, yeah. Yeah. And Jim's sitting there, like, the professionalist. He's just like, oh, yeah, yeah, you know, just do that. I'm like, shut up. You get in the back of the aircraft and you're going to run from,

or just push off from the back and dive out at me. Trying, trying, hopefully, that we're just going to just, ah. Did you do that? Did you run? I sent him a picture of it. He basically, he presented his right. side of his body to the relative wins. As you do.

I gave up on poise exits of all kinds. I gave up on those like around jump six. Really? Yeah, because I sucked at him so bad coming off a back ramp. How is that possible?

It's the easiest to do. I don't know, but I just, I'm not, for whatever, I understand it. What would happen when you did a poised exit? It's just like, you're holding, you're like, okay, I got it. Like, okay, cool.

You just watch the plan flow with it's way easier for me to just jump out like forward to jump just jump to it just go to what you're doing And it was way easier like it was just like I tried and tried and tried with poison It was like yeah, you know like just like I felt like such a fucking retard every time But then once I just like walk off the back ramp and just jump Yeah, it was fine or like do a fucking barrel roll or a flip or whatever I'm like okay whatever this slide Yeah, talk about I'm like, I don't give a fuck about it at all. I'm just like, whatever, dude.

Like, I'll get out of the plane and I'll be like, cool, maybe one of these days. What did you think of a side door exit versus the ramp? No difference. Probably slower. I think the otter goes slower than the sky van. Yeah. Which makes it mushyer, which is what causes people to swim a little bit. Oh, I swim a little bit.

Everybody swims a little bit when they first start. And it's amazing. Or the roll up the windows. That's one of my favorites. The kick. I did. I did some kicks. Here's the thing.

I can joke about all this. I guarantee you I have done more than that than you guys ever will. I've kicked the living shit out of air. I've rolled up the windows many times. The slower the air speed, the worse it gets. Oh, well, out of that balloon, I was definitely afraid of rolling up the windows. Like, deathly afraid. So I just did a cannonball off of it.

Because I was like, I ain't going to look stupid coming off this thing. How'd you like that balloon jump? I loved it. It's awesome. It was like the thing I hate about it, which, balloons are ridiculous the theory of them I mean

everything about a balloon is fucking ridiculous everything about a balloon is something I don't want to have ever at any point in time like you're blowing fire into a tarp and then you're sitting in a fruit basket and you're going up to elevation

as soon as I get to 1500 I'm like I'm great I feel good about this I don't give a fuck like I'm great for it's fine thousand I don't care All I know, all I know is like, I fucking hate, I just wanted to get the fuck out of that balloon so badly. Like, it's like spewing fuel and like. Yeah, drips down on you. I'm like, what the fuck?

You're blowing fire into something that you've never done one of these. Doesn't look like you should be. Same thing about balloons. I don't like balloons. I don't like it. Yeah. But I like the jump. The jump is by far my favorite jump I've ever done.

Yeah. Because it's quiet. There's no relative wind. And it's a zero. It's a. Do you feel the sensation of? falling yes you're yeah you'll get you'll get the stomach rising in your oh wow and you and you feel like you feel it when you get to like the acceleration the acceleration you go from like it like it's it's like

hitting the switch yeah and you can see it we had a red camera below us and when logan hit terminal velocity or whatever whatever you'd call it his pants went like and it and it blew out a bunch of dust out of him it was wild man he's just like kind of flapping and then as soon as he hit a certain speed they went and it just blew the dust out of all the camera picked all that dude it picked all of it out it was fucking cool logan seems to be um addicted to it we call him wind because he likes to fill all his holes with all the wind you know what i mean yeah he's like old wind slut hot logan he likes it he some of the guys picked up on it yeah he loves it yeah he loves it

I know J.T. was not having a good time because he was injury, doing with some injuries. Yeah, it's called... Injuries and sounds like potentially mental weakness, but... I think a lot of it just had something to do with, like, fear, you know? Yeah. Well, first of all... So, Evan and I went to dinner yesterday, and on the way there, he was describing to me, hopefully the best way to talk about this, the way that the potential danger of skydiving was presented to the audience.

was very heavy on, these are all the things that will kill you. Maybe 99. It sounds like 99% of the instruction was, you're going to die doing this, this, this, this is certainly death. This is horrific. And maybe it's going to be okay. I left the first couple days of instruction thinking that parachutes were only designed

to wrap around an appendage and that you couldn't cut them away. Yeah. You're going to cut away into something that was already attached to your body. and you might as well just throw in the towel at this point. I left there thinking, I need a third parachute. I left the training going, I need a third one because two is not enough because evidently...

Everybody dies. You have to tell them about the car ride conversation leaving. We left there on day one or whenever it was after a first day of instruction in all of us. So it's like me, Jericho. And Jericho's like 20-year retired for Sergeant. Ranger. Ranger Regiment the entire time, like countless fucking ops. Super salty. And Jericho's in the passenger seat. Logan's in the back. And I think maybe Jared or somebody was with us. And Jericho's like, well, I'm terrified. How about you guys? And we're like, oh yeah, we're fucking scared out of our

goddamn minds. Like we don't even know. We're all going to do this anymore. It was like, we're all like, we do not want to do this. This is fucking dangerous. Like we walked into the, to pull our rental gear. I was telling Andy this story to and the instructor Matt which God bless him he's a fucking super nice guy he went on long tirades around like

malfunctions but then there are other things too where we're getting our gear and he's like hey guys make sure that you inspect it because sabotage is a big deal on drop zones like people will cut your we just have saboters running amok here yeah you know it was like So all of us are like, holy shit, really? Like this is the thing?

Yeah, it's this fucking real. Like, people are taking wire snippers to your shit and you're like, you know, and to her credit, my instructor, Sarah Curtis, she was like, Matt, that was like 40 years ago. And it was like one guy. But he was like talking about it like it was yesterday. Like somebody came in with wire snips. But was it serious or was it you joking? No, he was dead serious.

Yeah. So, I mean, everything about the course was only built around, this is going to kill you, this is going to kill you, this is going to kill you, this is going to kill you, this is going to kill you, this is going to kill you, go have fun. That's the military. But also, be careful of sabotage. Yeah, and be careful. Like, so not only are these things designed to wrap around an appendage and then get hung up in the other reserve parachute, they're all, you also have to watch out for people like fucking sabotaging your shit. And you're like, holy shit, I don't know if I want to do this sport anymore. So you exit the plane and you're getting close to poll time.

What are you thinking as you're reaching back to deploy your main for the first time? Like it's going to be a shark's jaw that's going to come against you? The only thing I can think, the only thing I can think of is, I have to get this as far away from my body as possible because this thing is built to wrap around my arm. I got to fucking throw this thing out. It's built to want to just go, ah, and just, this thing is, like, make it. And then I kept thinking about it. It's like, we need to make these things.

So they're built for parachuting, not for wrapping around a, Did you almost throw your labor mouth? Just rip it. Yeah! That's a military thing you're right. He was a military instructor. He's a military instructor. Because I remember free fall and Yuma's the same way.

It's all based in EPS and everything else. When you go to civilian skydive, which is the problem, right? You go to military free fall and it's all based on the things that kill you. You go and then you're tight, you're stiff. And everything you waffle. It's all being fucking terrified. Yeah. You're a piece of plywood.

Because in the airplane on the ride up, you're like, yeah. I know what I'll do. What'll be confidence inspiring? I'll list alphabetically the ways this is going to kill me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I'll just go back down the list. And then it comes time to exit.

And the only thing you're thinking about is, I'm definitely going to die. I just don't know how. It's not the right way to teach people. Like you can be aware of things that might go wrong, but let's look for things that could go right. Yeah. Yeah, the civilian side is different.

It's like, yeah. Here, we're going to use six hours. Yeah. We're going to give you six hours of instruction. We're going to talk about every fucking thing under the sun that is going to kill you. Like, this is going to kill you, this is going to kill you, this is going to kill you for six hours. And then they're like, okay, guys, let's get our stuff. Let's go have fun.

And you're like, no, I don't think I want to. Imagine having a malfunction on your first jump after that. So you have a data point of one, six hours of like, fucking faces of death. Yeah. Jump number one you pitch and it's just a bag of shit overhead and you're just there like I knew it I'm ready for you though The Jericho is probably Jericho is like the single

Most fun human to be around in these situations because He He's fucking really dry like his sense of humor is like dry dry dry dry, but then he's like he'll be sitting there and he'll be like the instructors are going through what they're going to do he's like yeah I'm I'm getting a lot of body knows about not wanting to do this my body's saying no you know body knows getting a lot of body nose like he'll do it like he fucking hated it so even after he did a few jumps he did like by like every day we would do like these check-ins with everybody's like I fucking hate this Like the only reason I'm doing this is because I'm not going to be called a pussy.

And I'm only doing this because he's like, well, one, you guys are, you're like, we're paying for it. And two, like, I want to be able to like jump into hunts and do this stuff and other future content. He's like, I fucking, I'm so miserable. I'm so fucking stressed out. He's like, and I was like, yeah, that's supposed to be fun. But no, everybody was like stressed the fuck out. Like everybody. uniformly 100% everybody's like holy shit but once he started jumping like there's a

flexion point where it was like jump six or seven i forget was like oh oh okay we're gonna be right yeah have you had a malfunction yet mike no i don't believe so you probably would remember it yeah well i haven't i've had some stuff under canopy some weird stuff you're at chop a main though and get on you know i've never had a chop of the main almost i came close to chop in a main because i had twist line twists really bad yeah that i couldn't pull myself out of and then i just dead hung started building momentum and was able to pop it out i did have a bad military free fall jump where my nods came off and hit me in the face and then navd in the opposite direction and then was hearing the commo and thought they were talking to me when they're talking to somebody else

He's like click your heels and I was like Okay, I got you And he didn't have me They clearly weren't talking to you He wasn't talking to me Those are always the best And so I landed, got knocked unconscious Or injured my neck

It was a bad jump Yeah a lot of people are scared of their first cutaway Until they have one It's a pretty emotional event But then you realize Yeah I'm gonna be okay Right Almost every skydiving fatality occurs

Under perfectly functioning equipment Meaning the person flying The equipment makes a shitty decision At least in the modern era. Like in the 70s when they were like, you got a sewing machine? I'm going to go ahead and try a new stitch on my leg strap and just blow out of your harnesses.

Like that was a different story, but the modern gear, the stuff you guys were jumping, you guys were both on the rental infinity rigs. Yeah. Or velocity or I don't know what they're officially there. They're fucking awesome though. Yeah. Like the odds of your the rig itself malfunctioning has got to be almost zero. But a dual actual malfunction where you deploy your main

recognize that you need to get rid of it, cut it away properly, to fire your reserve and your reserve doesn't open, you'd win the lottery, get struck by lightning twice and eaten by a great white shark. Yeah, I did the numbers on it. It was like 1 in 38 million or something like that.

It was like fucking crazy. And then I was thinking about it because I was running the numbers on the, like if you were in a third, so because I was like, well... A belly, yeah, a belly reserve. Yeah, so if you were in a belly reserve, because I was like, well,

what would that be? It was one in like seven billion like it's exponential factor of like fucking it's crazy Wow because why would you want a belly reserve well no I was talking about no man zero because I was like I want an intentional cut so by FAA regulation you have to have two parachutes oh so if you're going to do an intentional cutaway from a non malfunctioning canopy they still want you to have the ability to go to a main and then a reserve why would you have to what would you is that part of some test jumpers will often do that like when they're designing a new canopy or you know Curtis will soak a canopy and

gasoline and shoot a flare gun at it and let it burn above his head wow because that's cool it is it's really cool it is amazing but yeah it's probably better off to have a reserve Curtis is the same guy that will fly into a one of those dust devils and ride that like he's he goes in and rides them that's not advisable for the ability to walk but that's like he he he's like another type of human he was he was a strange brain I haven't seen him in a long time but back in like 2000 and six seven I he was working with us in the tunnel and was already probably the single most capable flyer that I ever been around add 15 more years to that right between

like they're unbelievable the Curtis family and Steven sir unbelievable yeah but yeah It's a test jumping is one of the main reasons why. Yeah, you'll get a reserve, right? What changed it for me, what actually made me worry less about reserves opening is when I started base jumping because you only have one. Yeah. And you pack it almost identical. Like the actual sequence of laying the canopy down to pack it is how they start a reserve pack job.

And you realize that these things are actually designed to open. They want to open. And you catastrophically have to fuck up packing to make it not actually open. odds of two of those happening in a row in the same rig. Right. Almost zero. Yeah. So. How many cutaways have you had?

Six or seven. I went over 3,000 jumps without having a single one. And then I was telling Evans, like, then one week I had three. I think... One week you had three? Yeah. Was that because of, um... It's hard to say.

It's hard. I mean, one of them was... No, that was a different week. The last time I cut away, it was actually funny. Jim was on the drop zone watching me. I had done a wingsuit jump. Canopy was done. totally flying perfectly, but the lines were spun up.

Yeah. And I was facing the back of my canopy flying towards the mountains. So I was flying towards ascending terrain under canopy. And I was like, I don't think I have time to actually get these out. Capunk and just cut it away. But that was because of a shit body position on opening, which creates a burble. And I've actually had a rear-facing camera on wing suit jumps. And if you have a, the bag that the parachute goes into is a deployment bag.

and there are a variety of different types, aka D bag. D bag. Some of them have rubber bands that you rubber band the lines into. Yeah. Which, if you guys were watching me, pack my parachute, I only have two rubber bands on mine,

and then I just stow the lines into the bag. It's called a semi-stowless bag because there's two rubber bands. And the reason for that is... The canopy I was jumping is designed for wingsuits, but I would jump with a rear-facing camera, and you flare wingsuits. You have all the speed.

You actually can pop up. Right. And you can pitch right at the apex, right as you come over the top, so you're going really slow. And in the camera, you'd see your pilot shoot, pull on the bridle. It would pull the deployment bag out, and then the bag would start rotating as every one of the rubber bands would let go. And the rotation and oscillation would get worse. And then it's like... So you can create that bro.

The semi-stowless bag, the bag comes straight off, and the lines just completely pay out. And it's just the last two, and the canopy comes open. So the week that I had multiple was probably a packing error on my part or it could have been a little bit of wear and tear on the equipment or more than likely was packing air. What were they? What were they? What were that? One of them was an extremely hung slider, which I would say was probably a tension knot of some kind. There was probably something that was up there. One of them was extreme line twists under a small sporting canopy. where it asymmetrically loaded the canopy so that it just starts into a dive. I'm like on my back orbiting around

like looking straight up and like to the point where you're getting both hands to fire your reserve and then it spits you off into space on your back and you have to it's actually more awesome than scary. Yeah. Because you got more... Because you get a ride out of it.

Yeah, you have this like this rotation just spits you out when you... Clears the main. Obviously you need the appropriate altitude to do that. I don't remember what the third one was. But on average, it's one out of like every 888 jumps. Terminates in a reserve ride. I like the way the San Diego Skydab guys operate

because I felt safe, but also there's a different atmosphere there where it's laid back. You know, like you go to Skydive Arizona and everybody seems like they're high on marijuana or some kind of like drug because they're like hippie, hippie. but at skydive Arizona it's so different it was like a like there was pros there it seemed like

it's San Diego you mean? Oh yeah sorry Skydive San Diego I think every Deasy has their own feel Yeah like there's wingsuit guys There's there's dudes doing formation jumps And every time I've been to Skydive Arizona It's like core

hippie dudes or just like in flip flops and you know just throwing her stuff on it just seems a little bit more relaxed Or a little bit more not my culture. I don't know. San Diego was fun. It's just different. Jeff has a good system going on there.

A lot of his if you look at the operation, like I was telling you guys, it's based around, they own the, or they don't own, they are the recipients of the Navy contract for the military free fall program. Yep.

And the oversight for that is unbelievable. So he has a full, I think they're still called, it's called TAC Air, but they have a full military training side, but they share the same aircraft, the same pilots. So they're probably a little bit more Swiss clockish, you know, kind of by the book.

They do AFFI there? An AFFI is somebody who that means you're an instructor, which means you can teach people to skydive, that people going through or going through AFF. AFF, okay. That's what, there was a lot of the people, you'll see they do a tandem first. I haven't ever understood why, I mean, I guess I do. People want to experience freefall absent any responsibility. And then they're like, okay, I want to learn how to do this.

So they'll do a tandem and then they go over and they start going through the AFF course. Did they do tantums with you guys first? They had to because it's a requirement now. Is it really? Yeah. So they have to change one out through. Yep. I wonder why that is.

I have no idea. I think you have to do a tandem for what? To start a half. It's part of the AFF program. Part of the AFF. You have to be tandemed. Yep. Wow.

Yeah. How would they do that? They change that. I don't know. I know that because I started AFF like 15 years ago or, or whenever and that wasn't part of it it was not a requirement for me either it was a choice and it was actually one that they recommended but it was not a requirement yeah whereas like i didn't do it the first time i was like no it's like i've jumped out of planes my first jump was out of a like unassisted jump

was out of a fucking cessna 185 with a roll-up door in boulder colorado and the guy was just like jump out man like you know like you got your shoot and just fucking because I was holding my shoot and I was out on the strut you were holding your pilot shoot on the strut yeah this is how pirate this thing was so I got out on the strut and I was like holding on he's like just jump off and let go what yeah yeah I wanted skydive boulder yeah wow that was like 15 years ago perhaps a loose and fast operation mm I walked in there that day I walked in there that day and it was like, hey, I want to learn how to skydive. And they were like, sick, man, you want to start right now?

And I was like, okay, I guess. So let's fucking go, man. Like, get a pig. Check it out, man. We've been doing this for a long time. Like, dude, back in the day, like, we used to be doing like heavy fat lines of fucking coke around here. And you're just like, okay, cool, cool.

I guess this is how you learn how to skydive. I mean, fuck, I don't know. It's the culture. It's fucking cool. Yeah. Who cares? Give me some blow. I was still at a TSSI so I wasn't like doing any of that yeah but I was like I guess this is how it goes

and then you go to Longmont in Colorado and they're like totally different like places fucking running like a machine but yeah that was like my first jump was like wow just climb on out man have a good time today huh no I just did a few jumps and then yeah um then I had to come back and obviously finish it did your old man do a jump yeah I think he's I think he's I think he's a to like four tandems five tendons now oh so i think my wife's gonna learn like actually get her class a she i mean maybe maybe she met some hot dudes at the drops on i don't know hey the tag you guys are cute i don't want to stand in the way of love you know what i mean you can like i don't want to be some cock block i got that ain't me you wouldn't want to cock block

your wife from another dude that you dog i don't i don't want to stand the way for love you know what i mean like she's gonna get she's gonna get she's got to get out there like you know what I mean so why did you want to get back into jumping because you guys actually BRCC did a very large push push and I'm curious as to the reasoning behind it well I want to have a demo team so I wanted to have a group of guys all vets that could jump into stadiums and you know races and shit like that because I had this idea and what my idea was was like have this branded originally it was I'm going to buy a C-130 it's going to be black rifle coffee branded we'll be able to jump it we'll be able to take it to air shows and do a bunch of other shit come to find out C-130s are really expensive I know that sounds crazy

it's not it's not the cost of the aircraft it's the cost of the maintenance to the aircraft and then the availability of the parts so I would have been fine with the cost and the maintenance you can't rely on the availability of the parts do they even make that airframe anymore are they all legacy birds I do not know so I know that the what I was looking at was legacy yeah and so I was gonna I was gonna paint it woodland with like black rift coffee branding and be able to have a no-shit jump team and then be able to use that as the corporate plane because I was looking at it was like like, okay, corporate plane is a C-130, that fits black rifle.

Let's fucking do that. So the genesis of this started like a year and some change ago where I was like, I want to have a jump team so we can jump into stadiums and do stuff. And I don't like, I like being able to try to understand like what things, their subcultures and communities. And I like to be able to figure out like, okay, how do you? you know correctly engage in this sport without being it without having a inauthentic engagement so we had been in the wind tunnel like doing wind tunnel stuff for quite a while just like fucking around

it was like well in so like let's go yeah yeah like augden and san anton and san anton and i was like guys like we got to do it like we just got to do it you guys are like enough's enough like we got to go to our license everybody's like fuck yeah that's awesome um so then that's when the GBRS guys were like well we can put on the course for you we're like great we'll just take everybody with them and um but the the big thing was is with clint um Clint trial because he he was injured three years ago now but he was there's a huge part of his life before he was injured and getting him back in the sport was he injured jumping no he he stepped on a fucking mine in afghanistan while he was at the office but um he hasn't

jumped since the injury but it's a huge part of his life he started jumping skydiving with his dad when he was a teenager and then went on to the military and did a bunch of jumping but he was still like the base of it the premise was all enjoyment and recreation he hasn't done it for three years since he was you know modified by war and now getting him back into it was a bit of big. It was a big thing because guys like John Blank, Clint trial and some of the other dudes that we know, like we want to do it, you know, with our buddies. We want to be able to take everybody. And I knew if we all went and I told Clint that he had to go, I made it mandatory, like I knew I could fucking get him up into the plane. Sure shit. Like got him in the tunnel. He called his buddies from his old

unit they all came out and fucking jumped with him man that's awesome like it was it was it was it was one of the best moments of my life like just being able to see clint get back up there and like jump because it is so important to him it's so important to his friends because they used to jump together all the time that was a big part of what they would do to recreate even outside of the unit stuff so did he jump his prosthetics no just no yeah and he was fucking stable and like yeah but when he first got in the tunnel a few months ago like he was like fuck i don't know because he's missing you know huge percentage of way he's he stabilizes himself but after a while man he learned how to get it done and you know a few hours in the wind tunnel that'll like clear it up and then he flew awesome

does somebody just like pick him up and throw him out or how does he get up yeah that was like i was just thinking i was like i should call clinton and ask him that question like no that's what they did They just hucked them. No, two of his buddies, one on one side of one of the other. They just fucking came out all three years. I didn't know of a not fucked up way to ask that question, so I was just going to ask it. There's no way. But if Clint was no one had said, did they huck you under the plane, not this work.

Yeah, they just hucked him out. It was like him and his two buddies. So now, you know, that's the other thing. It's like the guys that have been, you know, like legitimately injured, I think this is just the case for everybody, which is the veteran community in general. they need to go unsolicited advice from a veteran but they just they need to go out and try new shit and push themselves to do more difficult things they have to push themselves physically and psychologically they have to go out and find different subcultures and communities where they can be

immersed into a tribe and it will help them psychologically so a huge percentage of what I do and why we do it is if we're just kind of a bunch of idiots and we like to go out and do fun stuff But it's really to tell people like go out and do it like give yourself a license to go have fun and Not just like lament over you know you know Sangan Valley or whatever it was like don't fuck don't go find something new to do like yeah go do other shit and And that's that's why I think it's really important for us because you know with with the company. It's what it's got a thousand employees now 50 something like that and 50% are veteran give or take veteran veteran veteran family members like there's a there's a responsibility there to go out and tell people like you have a license go have fun like you especially if you're if you've been modified by war

if you've been injured you know like it's okay they keep fucking pushing and then the other piece of that is like that's why we do a ton of that stuff where it's like the veteran adaptive athlete shoot or whatever it might be is like these guys haven't changed they're still their fucking bros like so we have to figure out ways that we can have social semi-physical events that aren't excluding people from our activities so i'm constantly trying to figure out like okay so how do we turn people on to archery right especially guys that are in chairs because they can shoot from a chair easily they have a stable shooting platform they can go to the fucking olympics yeah stuff like that where it's like give them another option

versus a lot of guys struggle to figure out what their options are, right? If you don't give yourself a license to go out and have fun, what's the fucking point of the investment that we made in the time and effort? A lot of guys down the vine that way. They just don't want to do shit. They think it's like I see a lot of guys who are veterans, especially soft veterans, who think that was their peak.

And they're like, well, I'm never getting those glory days back. It's like, dude, that's experience. Like, how does that end of the best? It's interesting. It's interesting. I mean, part of it is being complacent and lazy and then also falling in love with the idea of who you were as it defined you and not realizing that other things outside of that are going to redefine you.

Like I've admitted recently about being a dad, which has been my role for three years. Nothing compares to that. I would have hated to be in you guys' position. deploying a war with kids not me i was i was out yeah but i mean like you see guys like it changes your headspace for sure yeah it's so difficult it changed mine i can't speak for anybody else yeah so now that i have kids i'm like well i was a green beret i was an agency guy and i had a good time doing that but now i'm like i'm a father and then i'm an entrepreneur and so these roles to find me and my actions and my my daily routines but that brings me profound purpose

a lot of guys just are missing the purpose they don't want to get outside and you know we talk about operate the outdoors they don't want to fucking operate anymore it's like you could operate doing anything in your life like you flew planes like you fluked like you wing suit

flown there's so much more to do in life and guys think well I was that forced recon dude and I was badass and I'll never be that again so whatever and then they sulk over for 20, 30, 40 years

until it's too late It's unfortunate. It is. I think a lot of guys like, like I've been very fortunate, right? So for me, I've had a very, like I've had an easier road in that. So easy.

Yeah, so easy. No, I found a group of guys that I could work with and go to work. Like I've been in a team room my entire fucking life. Yeah. Like, I've never been alone. So I don't have any, I would say, like, psychological dexterity with being alone. I don't fucking know what it's like.

I literally left the clowns and started this company and then I was kind of on my loan, but really it was like me and my buddies. You know, the core group of friends. Yeah. So I don't know what it's like. And I think for me, I try not to be as,

I don't judge as much when it comes to that because I really don't know. like i've i've had a lot of challenges don't get me wrong like i've it's been difficult but i've never been alone like i could always pick up the phone and call my buddy who's also my business partner and fucking talk to him about something that was going on my life like something's going on the business something that's going on i've never had to like live inside here and be completely isolated alone i don't know what the fuck that feels like it's not awesome so i went uh i was double dipping and working for crossfit on the weekends

From like late 2006 all the way up to I think 2014. I got out in 13, so I stopped double dipping whatever people would want to describe it as. So I had a transition out of the military and I was established and already working with a smaller crew on the business side of the house for CrossFit doing sponsorships and licensing deals. But then after leaving that, I was kind of like a foot in the bucket of doing charter flying like part 135. corporate chart like if your phone rang you'd go fly it and if it did and you're like fuck i don't know what i'm going to do for a paycheck this week and then i started jumping but the jumping it's like it's largely an individual team activity like you go jump with people a little bit but then you're you're a lot of time by yourself right i lived in san diego but i've never actually maintained

ever since getting out of the military i have not maintained a very close relationship with a lot of guys that i served with which at first irked me i couldn't figure out why but then i realized I realize it's kind of normal. You just, you move on and you can kind of continue on in your life. But the headspace is one of fucking self-doubt. Because I was like, fuck, what am I going to do? I had three kids. I had a wife at the time.

You got all the normal shit, mortgage car payment, diapers, literally at that point. Like, what am I going to do? It's a lonely headspace. A lot of time spent staring at the ceiling at night. But I also suspect you probably had the same, maybe different things. thoughts, but the same, I mean, like, the stress, I think, is probably the same, but it's, it's different. The isolation is when you only have you, like, I'm going to be a professional skydyever now. It's like, there's no, I mean, obviously Red Bull has a team, but for me, it was like,

I'm going to try to do this on my own, and I have to rely only on myself. Right. Not the easiest, for sure. And I can see why people would want to give up, I guess. I don't know. And I think that's where our background probably comes into play where it's like adversity becomes a motivation as opposed to an obstacle. I'd certainly say that that's an advantage but not the easiest. Yeah and I think that that's where like I said I've been fortunate because like there hasn't been a time in there was a there was a small window of time when I left the agency and then really started kind of pulling Jared and those guys into the business. But But even then, like, I was friends with Matt and Jared before I left the agency.

So they were already my friends. So I've always had a group of guys that were directly connected that I could call and I trusted emphatically with anything. That regardless, like, you can tell them what you're thinking or what you're feeling or when you have self-doubt. And most of the time it's like, well, suck it up, pussy. But sometimes that's all you need. That's generally the appropriate answer. Yeah. it's like that's all you need like somebody where you're like oh what the fuck and they're like are you

like do you have too much estrogen like what are you drunk like what the fuck is wrong with you you know what i mean like why are you calling me and fucking telling me this like shut up you know like go to work stop being a fucking pussy i don't know i like that what's your what's your thing when i had a transitional period post agency in 2015 16 and i left a country and same deal. I was like, I'm going to be the lone wolf. I'm going to get the house and the hill next to BLM Bureau of Land Management. And not. Yeah. Not that. And I was like, man, that's the life I want, like off grid. And it did not go very well. I mean, I just, was it the isolation that fucked with you? Yeah, it was because I was like, well, my team guys, I don't talk to team guys, I don't talk to agency guys,

because they're doing their job. Yeah. And they're business. working and operating and I was like well it's obvious for me I need a recluse and just be alone and kind of do my do my thing and then it was not healthy I mean it was just like what am I doing and then I started socializing and realized oh man there's something with this I'm collaborating with people I'm partnering with people I'm making friendships and I thrived in a team environment but I did like my individual singleton kind of life but that's not how we're programmed, I don't think. I mean, we're programmed to run, manage, and operate in teams. And that camaraderie takes us a long time or takes us a long way. And so when I kind of came

out of the wood line, I was like, oh, I need this. So even building fieldcraft, it was the same thing in building black rifle, which was, I'm building something that felt like my operational life like the team room right with my friends doing rad shit yeah and this is what we are that's the model for us we were all doing the same thing in different ways which is we wouldn't be here doing rad shit in san diego if we didn't want to be tied to that and i think that's the healthiest way to thrive and a lot of people are being recluses listening to this podcast in their basements because they think that's the path it's not man it's like get some sunshine get outside talk to people build relationships and then you realize, man, that's making me happy.

And it's weird because I feel guilty saying that because I like the idea of being a lone wolf. Yeah. I could operate as a long wolf I have, but I also understand that to be resilient, to thrive, you need a community. You need brothers. You need guys that you could trust. Do you have a, do both of you have a social circle completely detached from your military friends? Like separate from just the people that you work with?

Not really. How about you? I don't, like none of the guys, no. So I don't have it. Like I don't, people who know me the, who are closest to me, you guys know. I don't really have any friends. You guys are my friends. So I don't, I don't like go home and hang out with people.

Because I spend a lot of time with guys that I like like, like John Park, a South Korean Navy SEAL. Did you say you spend a lot of time with people you don't like or like? because that sounds like you don't like what you referenced him. I kind of like him. And he pointed. Yeah, any point. I cut a lot of time with people I don't like, like John.

He's like, geez, man. He's right there. He's in the room. He's right here. He's not on the camera. He can't hear you. Yeah. I think I'm fulfilled in that way.

And when I am not around friends, like here, I'm at home with my kids by myself. Just doing my own thing. And I don't need that. social circle that's different. I've tried the civilian circle friends outside of the understanding of military, and it just don't work, man. I mean, they think you're psychopath because you've been to war,

or they think... Well, maybe we are. Maybe we are. I mean, you're a little bit different because... I do have a social circle outside of it. I actually think... Jiu-Jitsu, right? That's exactly what I was thinking,

and I actually find it to be incredibly healthy, because if you get a bunch of guys with our background, And I would find this when I was still active. I only hung out outside of work with the people that I worked with. So of course, the only fucking thing we talked about was work. So it was a work-work balance, not a work-life balance. Yeah, interesting. And yeah, you guys are obviously some of my closest friends,

but I have found it to be almost like a breath, not a breath of fresh year. I don't know what it would be. It's nice to be able to go and just be invisible in a group of other people that have no attachment to that world. And jiu-suitu might be a good example. There's a very tight community bond with that because there's just a huge level of trust

with your training partners. I'm sure you can find it elsewhere. But I actually recommend... I was having this conversation with some law enforcement officers up in the valley. And a law enforcement officer said to me, he's like, I have got to get some... new friends outside of the job Because all I do is talk about the job when I'm on the job

Right and then all we're doing is having campfires and talking about shit that we did on the job And I need that healthy It's not I don't think it is healthy I think there has to be that balance And maybe they are right that We're a little bit you know, maybe we are psychos because we went down the path that we did But let me just tell you who they're gonna want to be around when shit goes south Yes, but do dudes act weird around you like civilian guys? I've always seen that like I don't think so So you guys have acted weird around me.

That's because you're Asian. That's not. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. Nailed it. They're like, they're like, that's the biggest Asian dude I've ever seen in my life. He's a big Asian and he's like, he likes Asian food and he's like Asian culture.

Right. What's up, man? Is there a correct way for you to say it though? You just like food? No, oriental food is the best way. Yeah, it is. That's my favorite ramen. Are you from the Orient?

That's my favorite. Oriental ramen. Raman. That's actually, if I invite you over for dinner, I'll make you that. Oriental ramen. Yeah, so you guys can feel at home. Soy sauce on noodles, on spaghetti is not ramen. That's, hey, but I think, I want to be.

Is that ramen? You know, culturally sensitive to you and John when you guys come over to my house. Right. Rice and ronny is not rice. Spaghetti noodles with some black sauce that I actually don't even know if it is soy sauce. And I'll think that's great. Oh, now we're talking about black sauce, huh? Well, the sauce is the color black.

Oh, now it's got, why does it got to be more? Oh, my. Yeah, I, now the social circle thing, I think, is huge. And I do think that to a degree our background is inescapable, and I think that's okay. At some point, you have to come to peace with that, and maybe people will be weirded out, or maybe they'll have some unrealistic expectation. But what I have found is, the more time they spend around you, the more time they realize that it does.

doesn't matter yeah and you can move past it yeah and I mean for for me I found that most people once they find out they want to talk about it like oh what was that like they're yeah they're just genuinely curious about like I was I was brought my daughter across the street the other night we were playing in the neighbor's yard they've got this epic yard and we weren't talking you know shooting the show with the neighbor and she was like what what did you do before it was like well i was at green beret and she's like whoa it's like it's not that cool but hey you know she's but she's like yeah oh my gosh you know like i think there's like it's like the first one i've ever met and i'm just like feel kind of special like oh well

your special forces yeah special force and uh i just say it john said that john said that Then he dubbed that. He dubbed. And they want to talk about it. They want to know. Genuine curiosity. I think most of the time, when I tell people about it from my experience or from my perspective, what I'm doing is I'm actually setting the record straight because there's

so many people that are fake. There's more green berets talking about being green berets out there right now that we're never green berets. There's more Navy SEALs talking about being Navy SEALs out there to other people. people representing them as Navy SEALs. And there are actual Navy SEALs. I've met all 3,000 of the SEALs that said they served in Vietnam. Right.

Even though there was like 30. It's like you're 38 years old. How could that have happened? Buzz class 14 Charlie Alpha. Yeah. Bravo. I can't tell you it's secret. I've heard that one too.

I can't tell you that secret. But that's what I think it is my responsibility to engage with people around what it was like. And I always preface that with like, yeah, I was at the CIA too. Because I also know that there's a. A bunch of people that are like, ah, who's a fucking secret scroll or I was doing this? And I can't really tell you. Because people are fucking, they're just lying about doing shit all the time. Where I'm like, hey, it's a job.

You go through a selection process. You know, you do it. It's interesting. It's fun. It was, you know, absolutely like something I wanted to do. But you're not sitting there going like, yeah. Well, I mean, once you have the blood lust, you know, you can't get rid of it. It's just like, it's just like dushy stuff that people talk about.

That doesn't happen. It doesn't happen. It's not even fucking real. I'm a normal. Like, we're just fucking, I wouldn't say normal, but. Number one red flag is when people are like, I can't tell you about it. Yeah, yeah, I can't tell you. Honestly, to me, when I, I will hear stories.

I'm probably hearing them like eighth or ninth hand, so I understand there's delusion. But I'll hear it. Yeah. How do I talk about this gently? Because I have to have this conversation with this guy in the Calisville. There are people out there who talk in grandiose terms and like, I can't really tell.

you where I'm going and tell you about that and it's like hey man if you can't tell somebody where you're going yeah you can't tell them that you can't tell them where you're going just just so everybody's like the listens to this like just set it red flag people start saying to you yeah well I wish I could tell you but it's yeah I had we all had TSSCI clearances all the programs that I was ever read into I won't tell people how to find them on Google but they're all there they're all there and none of them really blew my hair back. I'm like, oh, I actually saw that in a movie one time. You know, I didn't know that that's what I was seeing in the movie.

But, like, all this, people are like, oh, you probably can't talk about where you went and what you did. I'm like, I know, I absolutely could, but it's so fucking boring. I'm not going to waste your time or mine. You know what I mean? No, like, I'm not walking around with, like, a suitcase nuke. And I never would, because obviously that fucking thing is going to go off

as soon as you arm it. I had thought myself through that one. It's good. What, as you glow? Yeah. the fucking suit. Did you ever hear about those things? The Sodom's, the man-portable nukes?

Yeah, of course. And they're like, it's going to be on a 30-minute timer. It's like, fuck you, it is. You're going to let me leave the nuclear device for 30 minutes. Jump it into Europe. Yeah. Yeah, I remember that. It's going to be like arm flash.

Yeah, yeah. It's like, yeah, don't worry. It's on a 30-minute delay. Oh, okay, yeah. Yeah, I'll be fine. Cool, because let me see you hear my one-mile runtime. Oh, yeah, I'm still fucked. Yeah, I'm still fucked.

That's, that's, Seriously, though, the number of times people will, and you guys probably get this, oh, hey, I've got a cousin, or a friend of mine. My favorite, I told you this yesterday, my favorite is when I'm talking to a parent and they're like, yeah, my son's a special operations guy. He's a SEAL Delta Force Commando guy.

I'm like, oh, cool, cool, where's he at? Fort Hood. I'm like, yeah, your son's a liar. Just so you know, he's a fucking liar. Sorry. True story. trade him in you know maybe you should have fucking kept him on breast milk a little bit longer i don't fucking know but something's going on with that kid you know what i mean it's like my

favorite that happens all the time too yeah it's just like pop you imagine it's like popping their balloon oof there's dudes living that lie hardcore every single day yeah it's crazy i just heard one i love hearing those stories like they're so fun they are fun they're so disconnected from them though because there's guys there's a guy i've heard one time who's in his hometown everybody in the hometown, thought he was a special operations guy, and he was milking that. The whole town was milking it. And somebody had contacted me and said, hey, I want to do a podcast on this guy. He seems legit, but can you just look into him? Like, absolutely. I just Googled his name and was like, this dude's a fucking liar. And he had been scamming the whole town. But then the dilemma

was, how do you handle that? So here's what's weird about this, because I didn't know how to handle it. He was mentoring kids as a coach as a coach and I'm like What do I say do I just ruin kids lives because I'm like yeah, this dude is a liar and everything he's saying is a lie And the guy called the we had a phone call and I said with the guy with the guy Oh yeah and said where did you go to he was talking and he didn't know who I was yeah, yeah, and he goes he goes Yeah, you know special operation this special operation that you know free fall the I was like oh that's really cool man one of my cousins is a free fall guy where'd you go to free fall school at and he was like oh for brag you know I'm like that I don't think yet I mean that's where the old wind tunnel used to be that's a wind tunnel you did first week there I was like yeah oh did you jump you like you jumped up brag he's like oh yeah yeah this will I can't talk to too too much about it but yeah yeah I was like oh that classified free fall course yeah brutal that's the best one it was so it like hurt me because I didn't after and it's not like me because usually I'm like Like, I'll call a motherfucker out.

Like, I just don't have a filter. But what I thought about was the kids. And I thought, if I just say something, this dude's going to kill himself in front of what a bunch of kids. Like, something dramatic. I see what you say, yeah. So I was like, I don't want nothing to do with this. I told the woman I said, listen, he's not real. He's actually a really hardcore fake.

In fact, because he was disabled. He had lost, he had lost a leg. To like diabetes or something? No, no, no, no. He was, he legitimately. He was blown the fuck up. Oh, so he had served, but he changed the narrative on. He did.

So legitimate dude, and when you Google his name, it has his purple heart write up. Oh, right. And so he was in combat arms, like the infantry or 19 Delta or something like that, legitimately got blown up. I'm like, dude, that's good enough. Like, you served. You got blown up. Yeah.

You just like, do that. And he had to go the extra additional step. And so I didn't want nothing to do with that. I said, listen, I'm not going to, like, what should I do? I'm like, you do you? I don't want any involvement in this. Like, I didn't, like, because I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to do morally or ethically to burn this dude down.

Right. And I don't have fucking time. Well, I, what I think, like, when you're telling me this story, what I think you should have done was, like, fly out there. I was actually thinking exactly the same thing. Invite all the kids to like a, like a high school gymnasium. Yeah. And then present him a ward.

or while you're presenting it. Just read through all the fake shit that he's done. But kids, this person is a liar. Yes. And this is what it looks like. There is a life lesson in that. Yeah. And giving him like some kind of trophy.

Yeah. You could have done that for me as the double. Right. You could have doubled. I also would have volunteered my services for this. What would you have guys have done? Would you guys have to just call them out? Nothing.

Yeah. I actually don't even care. anymore. I don't see that. Like, I'll talk to guys, and if they're fucking lying to my face, I'll just be like, oh, you're full of shit. Yeah. Like, oh, so you're just full of shit.

And it's happening. If I see people who are, like, manipulating organizations and are getting money from them, I will say something. Yeah. And if they're manipulating other people for their favor and, like, getting free shit. Like, if it, I don't know exactly where that tipping point is for me,

but if it's egregious, I will say something about it. Yeah. But other than that, you also have to pick and choose your battles. I don't have the energy or the time frame for it So I'm just like oh you're full shit Until they just roll out Most people won't say those things anymore Like it used to happen more

But now they're like oh well People are getting savvy Well they know they knew who I am right And not that's not some kind of weird flex They're just like oh well They're not going to lie to me Because they're going to be like oh well You're able to smell this out

But where I get it is like their family members or their friends. It's like it's a constant stream. Well, my cousin or my co-worker, this guy that I'm connected with and he's like, he was a Green Beret or he's a Navy SEAL. I think you guys get it way more,

which is like you get all the guys that are like, I was a Navy SEAL. I had a car or a guy that I bought a car from like, I don't know, seven years ago or something like that. And I was buying it. He's like, oh,

you're a green parade like Fred over here is an ABCL and I like walked over there I was like oh so what team are you in or whatever it's like 20 it's pretty sick I had a guy tell me it's like 20 till team 20 or whatever I'd got tell me one time 20 yeah it was it was like it was a ridiculous number I had a guy tell me not too long it was like yeah I was with team three in Vietnam I was like sick okay I mean mind you they were commissioned in the 80s right yeah It's like, okay, man. How'd you handle that? I asked him what Bud's class he was in, and he said 76.

He said the Bud's class in 1976. And I said, which number was it? He goes, the one in 1976. And I just, I would put him at my snapshot assessment at the lower functioning end of the spectrum. Right. And just moved on with my life. I was like, cool story.

Thank you for your service, which to me is just an underhanded insult to him. Yeah. And they just continue on my day. This was in Montana? Yeah. Ouch. I like the guys like, I've run into a few guys like stickers, like Trident stickers on their

truck. The bigger the better. It's awesome. So because I'll like say hi or whatever. Like, hey man, what team are you on? I like these guys. The new narrative I've caught a few times, I think Jericho and I were talking about it too was like, oh, I wasn't a team guy.

I just, I just support them. I just support them. I'm like, by putting a fucking Triton at the back of it? Yeah, yeah, I support the guys. I want to support the guys. So I was thinking about it as like weird. So can I start wearing a green break? Is I support you guys?

Yeah, exactly. That's where it was like, Jericho and I were joking about this the other day. We were talking about how we want to shoot this skit where it's like this guy pulls into Applebee's, right? Where he's got like a whole like a Trident and a fucking tower of power and the fucking the whole thing, right? Across the entire back window and he's like steps out wearing a metal of honor. You know, it goes in and sits at Applebee's and the guys, oh my gosh, you know, like, thank you. you so much you know gives him meal and like Dakota Myers like on the other side like buys him a meal or whatever and and some guy comes up to him is like

oh my god thank you for all you've done this like metal of honor is like oh I I don't have it I I just wear it to support the guys why haven't we shot this already hey right you know Dakota would be a doubt to play that would do that oh I I don't have a middle of honor I just wear to support the guys you know it's like he's got like all a bunch of free drinks and free food that's an interesting It's like parks and handicapped and the handicapped ones. People saying that. It's an interesting end-round.

Yeah. Because what they want is for people to make the assumption and not ask the question. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Who's the dude who shot Bin Laden? Rob O'Neill. Rob O'Neill.

Well. What's the relationship with him? You guys with him? He's been on the podcast a couple times. Like Rob. But there was the other guy, too. Who's the other guy? Mark.

Mark. Can we say his role? Owen? Owen. That's his suit. It's nom de gear. I don't know what is regular. What is regular name?

I'll tell you off here, because I don't know how he rolls with that. He wrote a book also, though, no easy day. Yeah. Yeah. Which got, that's the one that got all the money. No. He was on Jack Carr's.

Oh, he was. Who, to put a bow on it, if we see him as a pedophile in five years, we won't be surprised. Yeah. They're buddies, suppose. They're friends. Yes. Close friends. Yeah.

I think they went to the same Buds class. Yeah, sure. Or near by. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's just say there may be contention. Right.

Between who shot who. Right. Interesting. Between the two of those guys. Beyond that. Right. I've heard that. As as gently as I can.

I wasn't there. See, I've been, you know, when you kill a bad guy with a buddy, it's not about who broke the first round. because you're each putting rounds in the bad guy, and you would call that a coffin kill. So if me and Evan were walking down a hallway and a dude plugged his head out, we both plugged him.

It didn't matter who shot first. That is not a unilateral kill. Right. That is a coffin kill. His coffin kill, my coffin kill. What the fuck does a coffin kill mean? Coffin me kill means that somebody shot and killed him in support of it,

so you can't claim it as your kill. So you can't chalk that up as a unilateral kill. So if an entire assault force lights up a dude trying to escape with an S vest on and you just all plug them, then that's not like, yeah, that's my dude. Like I whack that guy. It's a coffee kill because, like, everybody shot. Nobody knows who started it.

I never heard that term. I would shoot a lot at things that I wasn't exactly sure what they were just so I could take credit for it. Yeah. And then also take away their credit. Yeah. Like. You're like, yeah.

You're like, go, go, go, go. That's my kill. It's like there's nothing in there. But if you're going to shoot, I'm going to shoot. That's the way it's going to go. It's like you're in a room next to me, man. Did you guys actually keep track of that? Like, did you ever encounter people who were very seriously tied to their number?

We did statistically for a couple of task force rotations because we are keeping stats as a... Yeah, the efficacy of the targets. Yeah, a measure of... Exactly. Was the correlation or fidelity? Good what how many were like we're keeping tabs with everybody else in the task force But we were doing it individually too like I still have the spreadsheet we had a guy Names Jason who was doing Jason born

Close that's close born a Yeah, that's actually it So he he kept stats on everybody By weapon system they killed the bad guy with the objective number like all this it was actually really cool as a data thing to go is cool shit what did they do with it though they we used it team internally or troop internally to assess um the capability of the troop and then that those what i like about it is it's because it's like hey if a troop kills 150 dudes in a four-month rotation how many of those dudes were cast and how many of them were small arms fire yeah and then what does that show as a level of the current

capability of the enemy like because if we're not killing them because of a cast Maybe they're getting smarter because they're staying contained where they're going to their palm grows. So a lot of it kind of was trending and trying to get more atmospheric when the bad guys were doing. But it was super interesting. And so I started keeping personal tabs which are still murky because there's a lot of situations like where you're, you know, three dudes online and you're whacking a dude and you're like, who killed that dude or you throw a grenade and you're like, where did that blow up? And and you don't have enough time to like analyze as ISR, who's kill was that, or how did that happen?

Which is kind of the detriment of fast-paced ops in that period of time. But I think about the Bin Laden hit, and I can imagine you're under nods, you're moving to achieve a jackpot, and you've got a few assaulters. Dude pokes his head out. And it's, you're trying to just smash the dude. Like, who's going to be like, I broke that round first. that was my kill. It's like, what?

Like, I'm not even thinking about, like, we just smash this dude. We just plug this dude in the face as we rolled up on him and it's bin Laden. I'm not thinking about that. So it's kind of weird that there's a debate between that. It's detrimental to the community, I think. Yes, for sure. It was made the issue that it was made and that there are conflicting narratives. Again, I wasn't there.

I happen to be friends with some people that were in the broadest way that I'm willing to say. it is is that the there is dispute as to the authenticity of any narrative that is in the public view interesting yeah which is weird because I feel like you should be able to work that out on the couch and be like hey so where are you at the yeah and oh so that okay that was like I've heard her shot ring yeah for mine there's no dispute from my understanding internally oh the dispute is more about what has been put into the public record got it got it yeah yeah which I can There's a small group of people that were actually on the ground. I don't think there's any confusion about what actually happened.

Yeah. I think that the fact that there are competing narratives that were very highly elevated is more the issue. Are you going to write a book? I don't know, man. A fucking author, Mike, dude, he's been hitting me up too. You're going to write one. I mean, I want to write, what I want to write is a business book because I've talked to enough people now where you know like Cole let's talk to Cole and he was like yeah man you showed us this all this

shit was possible and you never fucking told us like how to do it and and it resonated with me because I was like well yeah because I'm still learning how to do it I'm not it's not as if I've like evolved into some fucking you know uh business savant it's just no you're still learning how to do it but there's eight years and lessons learned and I think I I I I do owe it from the veteran community perspective to at least release like a lessons learned, which is this is how I've transitioned, like transitioning and then moving into, you know, business and entrepreneurship and then, you know, raising kids. The thing about it is like there's so many people out there that want to like beat their

chest about how fucking cool they are. And I'm like, well, obviously the cover of your book is, you know, your fucking dress blows that you're green beret. Bad ass, yeah, yeah. My life is a business man. But mostly just your uniform. Business commitment. It's like half green bray, half like fucking half.

You know, like one and a half, right? That's creative. You know, the other half is like a suit. You know, I don't know, man. Like I do owe it at least from a business perspective or at least from like, hey guys, like, I'm a fucking dumb fuck. And if I think about the world

in a very certain and specific way. And the thing that I'm like most proud of is not like, okay, this is how much the company's worth or whatever it might be. Like the things are that those are like those are not happenstance. It's the way that you prioritize your level of effort and what you go to work on every day. But really what I go to work on every day is it's different in the context of, um, You know, like I've I wrote my mission statement, which was to transition on military service and live a happy and fulfilling life because I wanted to be able to connect in and love my kids and have full value relationships and not be like completely emotionally turned off from the world and, you know, be a fucking sociopath because I like literally I was so emotionally, I think. Unavailable. unavailable that I couldn't function very well so I what I've learned in the last eight years

and like my highlighted moments are not about business or what business has been able to do for me like my proudest moments in this business have literally fucking nothing to do with like business like they don't even rank like pressing the button in the new york stock exchange doesn't rank above my daughters like playing with you know a group of guys that you know have lost their legs and like wrapping their arms around their legs and like sitting on their lapses or fucking you know cruising around because they think of them to know different as anyone else right so like to me the businesses afforded me to do things like that where my kids are fully integrated and immersed into these into the subculture and we've been able to create value but they're

layers of value to that that we've been able to create where I think if you're thinking about just capital is capital or money is money there's a difference between trying to go out and be wealthy and trying to be a capitalist like there's a huge difference like capital by definition is creating money to reinvest or wealth to reinvest in a institution your business wealth is an individual endeavor and sometimes as a capitalist you're fortunate enough to reinvest enough in your business where the outcome becomes individual wealth but that's if the only goal is individual wealth the capitalist endeavor your entrepreneur endeavor will be will only serve something that is ultimately hollow at the end of the day you do need it that's coming from a person that has an individual

perspective of like I'm not saying you don't need money because you absolutely do like I don't know why we're on this now but like I've heard this from I don't know how many people like you know money won't buy you happiness well fuck off like it absolutely will like it enhances what you do in life it is a it is a vehicle is a fucking engine that drives what you can do in your life and you know find something that you love and you'll never work another day in your life that's all like pincrists horseshit those are all those are all like lies that people tell themselves those are lies that poor people tell themselves and make themselves feel better that's what they fucking do and i'm like i'm fine if there's two ways to freedom right like and i've thought i've thought about this a lot

there's two ways which is wealth or poverty but either way if you're in in between you're working for someone else at like you know nine to five or whatever it might be but you're you you have to take like one or the other road you can say i'm going to be completely autonomous from the system i'm going to i'm going to own all of my time or i'm going to build on the other other direction i'm going to buy back my time and be able to influence the things i'm directly interested in in between is you're working for somebody else all the fucking time and i just wasn't willing to do the poverty one you know so i i mean i do have a lot of lessons learned when it comes to those things.

That would be a good chapter in a book. What? Poverty and wealth. Yeah. Like, but I think with all of the things that we've learned in the last eight years, these are like big, the big ticket items that I think I can really create value in people's lives

or like things like we've already covered in this podcast. Like, I'm not at fucking lone wolf. Like, I can't do it. Like, I respect the fuck out of people that can do it, but that's not me. I have to have a team. I have to have a team in order to function like all the time. I have to have people in a team room.

I have to have people structured working on fucking problems. My family is also a team like they're part of that team. They're part of my entire ecosystem. Like I am not good at just like being lone wolf fucking Jason Boren fucking dude. Like I can't do it. And I think a lot of guys that I've talked to you over the last several years, they go to work. I was just talking to a guy. one seventy-third guy multiple combat rotations real successful but transitioned out went to

Goldman Sachs fucking miserable like absolutely miserable hates the culture hates the people like it's all like woke horse shit every day in the finance industries and he's like all I want to do is like immerse myself back into a culturally appropriate like professional position where I can be myself so I feel like I have to go to work every day people judge me because I was in the fucking military people think that I'm a fucking loony because I was in gunfights and they think I'm like you know a murderer and they're always talking to me about like my pronouns like I just want to go to work on a team where people are like hey man let's go solve that problem and I'm like well you're immersed you took yourself out of like a meritocracy

where the best idea wins with like tactics and techniques with legitimate leadership and management training where stakes are never been higher and then you put yourself into a culture of you know finance industry fuck tards and you think that you're not going to be miserable like you're going to be fucking miserable like unless you like you know define your expectations but like these are all the things where it's like man i've got story after story i'm ben miller whoever it is right it's like story after story i've got guys just not being able to fit in and they're professional track and then finding that they actually need a team and a subculture people that they can bond with and have mission and purpose like it's fucking important yeah I agree did you fall asleep

but I was talking you did didn't you know I'm sucking it all in I need I need this book like he's trying he's getting ready to pitch you on a book idea yeah well and he's next you know what Andy agreed to this morning. I didn't agree to it. He basically said this is you have to. He's just like, hey, I'm going to send you this and this is what you were going to do. And I was like, oh, okay. For this book, you have to do it too.

What is it? You're on the list. Are you doing a book? Yeah, I know that. Yeah, I know that. The book's called Prepared. But every chapter has excerpts from subject matter experts. Right.

So Andy's going to do mindset resilience as part of it. So easy. like when chick gets hard just give up that's it that's how long ring the bell by Andy seriously

ring the bill with a picture of him and his uniform the white one though the one where he looks like handsome and then it's gonna be like I like that photo

that's a good photo that's a good photo of you I still have that I can wear it for you guys if you want to tell you oh I won't talk about that what getting married oh yeah can I talk about

are you gonna wear your whites and you're dumb ass are you doing that you're gonna wear your whites we can wear a greens that's fucking sick everybody's gonna wear a uniform sick as fuck

I'm gonna put an AEM? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just an AEM. I'm actually gonna add a few more ribbons because I've been out for a while. Like nobody's gonna check them. Why don't you wear my whites? I'll wear your trident.

Yes. On my blues. That'd be a little good. Like I'm here, I'm supporting you. Hey, Dipschitz, you're all on the text thread where I said go to men's warehouse and this is the suit you need to get. We're all wearing the same shit.

I thought you were gonna put us in different suits and you're gonna wear your whites. But you can I wear a trident in support of you? Yes. You can wear medals on suits. Isn't that the thing? I've seen people do that recently. I think it's like old dudes doing.

Yeah, you can. You can do whatever you want. Canon should are very different things. Canon should are different. I will, so I ordered the ties because we're going to be in flip-flop suits and ties. I will get you guys trident pins for your ties. That's a short list.

In support of athletes. Yeah. No, not me. Oh, just in support of artists. I won't wear one. You guys all will. We will wear the tridents. In support of Alps.

It's going to be fun. I wouldn't get caught dead wearing my military uniform to my wedding. What bet can we make with Andy? About where he has to wear his fucking whites. It would be so bad. He's like, would it bring for who? For you, Mike? For me.

For Evan? Yeah. For media. Like the best, the best fucking joke would be like, if we win. I think you're talking about the choker whites, right? How about this? Yes. How about this?

The stakes for the game that we're going to do for the, elk that we're going to kill we'll have to which is actually before the wedding oh it is oh no no it's after it's after september but i'm trying i'm trying i'm trying to never correct me like that again i'm trying to do like the the ultimate game for andy would be like if he loses it something i need to see the video of him stalking an elk in his whites That I would actually do. That would be hilarious, dude. You would do really well at that.

Yeah, there's so many of them there that they'd just be like, hey, what's up? That she would be hilarious. She would be hilarious. Just belly crawling and choke the whites. And your wife? You still have that, though? Yeah. That's really cool.

I wore it one time, actually for that picture, which was the day I got commissioned. Really? Yeah. Hey, yeah, we had a debate. So what did you retire as? O3 or O2? O3. O3E.

I won. Yeah, you win. 10% of BRCC, give it up, man. Was that just based on my lack of professionalism? He thought I must have been a junior, more junior officer. That's what I've been on. I thought you're a senior man. I thought you, I thought you commissioned and you literally got out like, no.

Like, no, I had been, I did five years as an officer. You ran up a platoon, right? For a short period of time once I relieved the platoon commander. Nice. Yeah. Well, not really. He was a douche. Yeah.

Did he actually get fired? the podcast. He 100% got fired, got kicked out of the military afterwards. It was bad. Wow. Wow. Not bad? Did he keep his trident? That is a good question and I actually don't know. But I do know he's no longer serving. That's how bad the relief was for getting rid of him. Like he did something egregious and then it was he did not have the smoothest road leading up to that deployment. And the only reason I was with that platoon is one of the junior officers. was his wife's getting ready to have a child.

So they were going to allow him to stay back as we surged it over. I think he was going to come over four or six weeks, something like that after we were into it. This is Afghan, right? Yes. In Zabul province of all places, the poorest province in Afghanistan.

Truly. And the commanding officer pulled me into his office one day. It was like, hey, this guy's going to be doing this, like his wife is in this phase. So why don't you start? integrating and working with this platoon in training because I'll send you over there with them. And then I was going to bounce to become the operations officer in between two of the SEAL

platoons. So I went out there with him and it was pretty apparent that he was not the guy for the job. So he ended up getting shick-kanned shortly after we were on the receiving end of an ambush in side-by-sides. And it was kind of in that moment where I literally was just like sitting there like literally counting in my head I'm like all right I'm gonna give this guy the opportunity to do his job but like five four right three two okay it's time to go to work I got it and shortly after that I was moved back to be the operations officer because the other officer had come in and the guy that I was working for made a horrendous error and he goes hey Andy how's so-and-so doing out there I was like who we should go get a cup of coffee two and a half

hours later after I kind of filled him in they flew out and relieved him in place like within 24 hours the black shirt came that's see that would never have in the army he'd be promoted no they had to get rid of so they flew bird out they surged a guy over from Iraq smallest seal ever Nick Norris actually came over and and took over and I was I was kind of bummed at first being the operations officer and then I realized that both of the platoons love the capability of the javelin so I just got to go everywhere. Ghost of Salt or just...

They would just be like, hey, what mountain top do you want to be on? So I got first choice of high ground for 10 months. That's all. That's right. But yeah, and that's how I ended up for a short period of time.

Essentially, I would describe it as I was operating in that role, even though I wasn't holding it on paper. Again, this is an absolute fucking shit show. But the fact that after that conversation with the troop commander, they were like on a helicopter within 24 hours, went and got him, sat down, talked to the guys.

Yeah. That's legitimate. And he got, I mean, it wasn't awkward at all. We were all the same. Me and him, he ended up being flown back to the base where I was the operations officer. So it wasn't, it wasn't awkward? Not for me. Yeah, I'm not for you at all.

Yeah, I had to sit in the chowl and stare at him like, I'm with you right now. Yeah, that's great. I thought he wasn't me. Does he know that, did he think it wasn't you? There is no way in the world. He couldn't have known that it was me. It, yeah, he sucked. And there's no reason that 14 or 15, you know,

guy should put their lives or have their lives at risk for that guy and there's a reason why he was ejected from the military shortly thereafter i mean oh outside of that circumstance correct something else happened yeah and he probably went on to stanford to get an NBA yeah i don't know where he got his degree i think he was a he might have been an academy guy i actually don't know oh so yeah but that's how ended up over there in that job and yeah that's good it's nothing like being a o three with a 300 one bag and backpack full of javelins it's fucking rad

so rad well I enjoyed it yeah that sounds I mean I would still sign up for that duty yeah like I'm fat but I can still do it be fine would be great

as you go back right now fight a backpack full of javelins yeah what do you say to guys have you been hit up by anybody or asked about anybody whether or not they should go over to Ukraine that's one I've asked like a civilian or guys who are out of the military

and they're like hey what do you think should I go I tell everybody no I'm like it's everybody I know I'm like it's everybody I know like I understand where their heads are at like they want to go get it on I got it but um when you go over there and this is just firsthand experience and I think all of us understand this which is you're a nobody so you're going to be like shoveling shit and pushing a broom until I don't know know until somebody decides that you need to do something else but you don't speak the language you you're going to cause if you're out there you're not integrated appropriately you're going to cause

more chaos than you are organization and most of my experience for like success success in combat zones is like may the most organized element win when if you're contributing to chaos you're actually contributing to the enemy's endeavor so I always recommend people and like there are other ways versus like going over there and contributing to the chaos it is already war yeah war is already chaos so I get it like I understand why people want to go like I'm hey man like it's a war I mean I've had to have this conversation with a few people where they're like we're going to go kill Soviets I'm like um it's not that's they're not so it's anymore like just so everything else like it's you know Russian Federation but um like

like I'm not did I'm not um encouraging it by any stretch of imagination I just think it's too too chaotic of an environment what do you tell you like the humanitarian piece I think it's you know just like coffee or die was important just um with Jericho I talked to him right when he got back and I appreciate like the ground truth so that's important i'll be helping uh ex overland and jack car will will be going there doing humanitarian aid for refugees especially women of kids that's all i care about i don't care about the the circumstance on the ground as far as like getting involved because it's too convoluted it's too it's too messy um but i do care about the disaffected women and children

just like i would in any um situation and so anything that can help especially with our skills of you know what i just sent amber over who's my family preparedness director and she she's a nurse she went over there and helped uh save our allies with chad robeshaal helping kids and that's how i'll be involved but i agree the chaos on the ground is too convoluted i think policy-wise we're making a lot of errors that we're going to pay for later uh with russia threatening finland and if they join the uh the alliance then they'll destroy them. I believe them.

And if they do that, they're giving themselves excuses because the gloves are off. So what's their limitations? Maybe none. Maybe Putin's just like, I'm just going to see how far I can get away with stuff. So it is political.

It is chaos. It is a mess. And I wouldn't want to encourage anybody to go there and lose their life. No. Or when there's plenty of things they need to be doing at home taking care of their families yeah i think i think finland actually voted to be part of nato yeah

yeah just yes like yesterday yeah yeah where so we'll see i i think you know from my perspective i think that he's like he's he's he's overplaying his hand he is definitely like i think i think he is like these are these are really complex obviously but i'm like man this this guy's like it seems like he's making some very rash decisions and there's only a few reasons why people are making rash decisions like he's got cancer and he's terminal yeah yeah like he's painted into that corner i actually saw that yesterday do you think there's any truth to that the health concerns hard to say right because i saw it on a mainstream media report and it's not like there has to be any legitimacy tied to that it also could be like the you know when when the biggest superpower in the world is the weakest it's ever been in

history of the country speaking about Biden and in his administration super weak then why would you not take advantage of the legacy that you grew up in the legacy and culture you grew up in which is the federation yeah why would you not want to rebuild the soviet empire and and and see what you can get away with like they talk about um the the conversation now is there's war crimes being committed. Do we really think pulling an oligarchs $25 million yacht out of the ocean and cutting off the break account is going to affect what their policy is and how they're acting? It's not going to change anything. And so there's something radical in it at all, but it could also be it's an opportunity, a time of opportunity. It's opportunistic. He's going, hey, look, we're never

going to have a new Biden. He's going to lose the election in three years. Let's see what we can get away with. And then him thinking, one, three years, we'll be back to square one and we'll be done. But at least we'll extend our reach and our capacity. Right. Which is insane.

I mean, think about if Trump was in because he got reelected, would this have happened? The answer is no. Because we had a messaging platform. And we also had the rapport, which was necessary, say, look, you don't want to do this. And we'll tell you to your face.

Biden hasn't even met with any of these dudes. Like, he hasn't even picked up the phone because Putin won't answer his phone calls. And so that's all scary stuff because, I mean, we could be on the cusp of World War III. But then how we handle World War III is why I'm concerned. Because I don't think we'll handle it well. I don't think we have. I don't think it would be a World War, though. I don't think China would

side with Russia because China's in business Like we all have to understand like China's in business and they're not ready Yeah they're playing the long they're playing the long game Like if they if they went chips in with Russia at this point Yeah, they'd be stupid they'd be stupid because you would have the entire European and Western civilization after this guy Yeah

So it is a world war in the context of yes you're gonna have the entire world against you You have no out except for you know north korea iran which i mean their their economies are less than the size of fucking new york so combined economies so even if we looked at it from a purely strategic you know world war perspective china's not going to go chips in on a loser they're not they're they're playing a hundred year goal not the five to ten year goal like russia's playing short-sided game and and it's like over what over what like ukraine's completely been bombed to shit what are you fighting for i know you know

they get closer to the EU or you get closer to europe like what what's the point and i think it has to do with those legacy cultural things like his mom told him one time that that you know the the empire he need to get back the empire and it's like living some kind of legacy that he wants to get before he dies so it could there could be something to that man yeah seems desperate he does seem desperate yeah yeah it seems Speaking of desperate, do you guys want to get dinner? I'm hungry. I could eat.

How about you, Michael? You know I could always eat. There's a P.F. Chang's down the road. Yeah, that's true. Actually, you know what? You guys, that barbecue joint, what do they call that? The Korean barbecue joint? For you guys, it's just.

Evan and I would like to go to Korean barbecue. But you guys can just call it barbecue. It's our barbecue. Yeah. Yeah. Welcome to our barbecue. Should we go freak him out by taking you guys there? Let's go.

I'm sorry. How long have we been on a podcast? 250 yeah that's great so for the entire movie titanic we john has been standing monitoring audio and video good job john good job john proud of you man good job john come so hamida as we would say in korean for all you white people listen to this come so hamida let's go get korean barbecue it does sound really good right now what do you get full disclosure i don't know what korean barbecue we're gonna go get uh you've never had korean what is it bagogi oh bro So John is the master of this because he'll, he actually, you have to cook it yourself.

He made us that Asian bowl today. Are we literally? Out of the back year sat. Are we, so we're about to go pay a place to cook our own food? No, no, no. Yeah, but it's supposed to be like that. But we have an official Korean, like a real one that legitimately will cook it proper. We just did this the other day and it was amazing.

You guys were cutting the meat with scissors, right? Yep. That's part of it. It's so racist that you said that though. What part of cutting the meat with scissors is racist? I don't know. Just the way you looked at it. I mean I'm saying scissors that's what the fuck you were using that is you put it in your story yeah

unlike me that just put spike wrecks in my story i like i like the uh diversity here in this room which i feel like andy and i are doing a great job because we're 50 50 right actually i take that back because technically yeah yeah you're you're you're only 12 and a half but you're you look like you look at your hundo yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah Yeah, yeah. After your black sauce talk, I don't know if you're in a position that talk about diversity. The soy sauce? Did they have any of that sauce at the Korean barbecue place?

Black sauce. There'll be some black sauce there. Yeah. Here's a serious question before we get off the podcast. No. I'm hitting my fifth win. Let's just keep going. Let's keep rolling with it.

Let's go. Let's go get some.