Cleared Hot - Powered By BRCC - Episode 240 - Anthony Arismendi

Episode Date: July 4, 2022

Anthony Arismendi is a former FBI agent with a highly decorated and distinguished career spanning two decades of undercover and special operations against drug cartels, gangs, organized crime, violent criminals, and terrorist organizations. He has served as a member of the FBI's SWAT team, as a supervisory agent in two field offices and FBI Headquarters, and as a unit chief in the FBI's Criminal Investigative Division. He is the recipient of the Hispanic American Police Command Officer's Association's (HAPCOA) Medal of Meritorious Service, the Special Act Award from the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) Commissioner's Criminal Investigator's Award, and he was recognized by FBI Director Louis J. Freeh for his nomination to the prestigious FBI Director's Award for Excellence in Investigations. Today, he is the President and CEO of ARIXMAR, author and sought-after public speaker, sharing his compelling and motivating story with public and private organizations across the country. In his new book, "Outsider Agent" he tells the story of how he moved to the United States from the dangerous streets of Caracas, Venezuela as a teenager in the mid-seventies, with the dream of becoming a US citizen and an FBI agent—adapting his survival skills to a new culture, one harrowing day at a time, overcoming homelessness, prejudice, and poverty to achieve the impossible.

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. It's almost the 4th of July. Do you know what that means? Well, hopefully for what it means for most people, if they're celebrating the birthday and independence of this country, but for other people, what they kind of want to do is shop, and I'm not going to judge either way. I think you can do both. So if you're looking for something cool to buy for the 4th of July, I actually rhymed. That was unintentional, but I'm going to go with it. Go to black rifle coffee.com, where you're going to find the landing page that says the 4th of July sale, buy more, save more. up to 50% off your first coffee club order. You're going to get 20% off if you spend over 50 bucks, 25% off over 75, and 30% off over a hundo. And, of course, he could just go crazy. That picture you're going to see is Matt Best in an American flag.

A set of overalls. No shirt. Don't know what to say about it. Not the marketing that I would go with, even though he's a chiseled and ruggedly handsome man. I would have just gone with something slightly different. But if you like coffee and you like cool brands, go to black rifle coffee. and check out what they have to offer. Now, let's move on from the business side of the house.

My guest today is a fascinating man and one of the cooler conversations that I've ever had. His name is Anthony. He goes by Tony, though, Arsmendi. And his background is, should be, in my opinion, inspirational for everybody who listens to this episode. He comes from a place that I think most people would probably try to avoid, move to this country with almost no grasp or understanding of the English language, lived in a situation that, again, most people would try to avoid and continue to grow and build and move forward one step at a time and eventually became an FBI agent. In that capacity, he served on the SWAT team as a supervisory agent in two field offices and FBI headquarters and as a unit chief in the FBI's criminal investigation division. eventually decided to move on for reasons he talks about in the podcast and became the CEO and I'm probably going to murder this but it's R-X-M-R-A-A-R-I-X-M-A-R and he talks about what that is.

So I'm going to shut up now and let Tony do the talking because I was fascinated when he was doing so on the episode. 240 with Anthony R.S. Mendi. Enjoy. Close now. There are many things that I wanted to talk to you about today. However, you just added a new topic for me when we first met. You said that you have been engaged for 11 years, to which, of course, my response was, you have to be joking. So let's get at least a little bit of backstory.

I am also engaged right now, but I'm getting married in August. I'm T-minus 59 days from right now. So my question to you is, how long were you engaged? How long have you been going out, and then when did you decide you were going to get married? Well, I don't want to say I'm fresh off of a divorce, but I am recently. divorce within the past few years. I didn't think that I would ever consider marriage again, if I'm being honest. And I don't think that's a, I don't think that's a bizarre place for both men and women to land

probably after a divorce. It wasn't awesome. We'll leave it at that. And so engaged for about a year. Yeah. Well, I have to agree with you. I mean, you know, when you get married, you get married to stay married. I didn't get married not to stay married.

stay married. Yeah. Were you previously married? Yeah, I was for many, many years. I have two grown sons. I have a son that's 35 and another son it's 30. How long were you married for? I was married for, I think, 26 years or 19 years and 11 months for me. So which I think, you know, I would actually be curious to see the numbers on it for marriages that do end a divorce. I wonder what the median length is. It's pretty high, especially military and law enforcement. I did the homework on that. Yeah. It's in my book, but a little bit. of it. But, you know, so it's interesting because I never thought I'd want to get married again. Yeah. You know, it was a really rough divorce, you know, and again, I'm friends with my ex-wife,

and, you know, we raised two great sons, and it's a tough career, you know, it's a tough life, you know, and, you know, you're always gone, and you're always doing stuff, and you're never home, and you're always, can't talk about it, you can't do this, you can't do that, and you get home, hey, the washer's not working, and then you've been doing something, I can't tell you anything about it, you know. And so it just doesn't make for good marriages. It just doesn't. You think you can really overcome. You think you're not, you're not going to be it's not going to happen to you, but it does because you're, you know, if you're a fireman, if you're in the military, if you're a cop, if you're, you know, it's just, you're in a different line of work. And he just

doesn't make it so that you're not home for supper. You're not home. And it, you know, you have kids. I have sons and, you know, I have three as well, two daughters in a son. I'm sorry, other way out two sons in a daughter. How old are they? In the middle of birthday season right now, so my daughter just turned 14. My son turns 17 next month, and then my oldest turns 19. See, those are great ages. And again, like I said, you know, my oldest is 35. You know, my youngest is 30. And so, I mean, I walk by mirrors all the time. I look through the eyes of a 27, 30 year old. And then when I see my sons, I'm like, holy shit, you know, I got a 35 year old. But, you know, I didn't think I would get divorced, but it was just, it got to a point that we just, you know, and I, I broke it off.

Did you break it off after your career ended in the bureau? It was right before, really. I mean, it was part of the whole thing. You know, the wheels were falling off. I mean, I asked that because, anecdotally, I feel that oftentimes when you're in thick of it, you can kind of put band-aids on, and I have found at least from the, I think the military, I would say seal community, but I would go broader than that, the military, you know, I think it's after that occupation ends where you have, you're forced to be around each other longer and confront, perhaps that massive distance that has grown in between the two of you. It's true. That's very true. And also the kids, you know, I mean, you think about the kids and duty and

all those things. And, you know, it's like, I don't care. You know, I'm just going to do my job. I'm going to be very good at it. And then, you know, it's just a whole thing. And but, you know, that's not good for them. It's not good for the wives. You know, they're just home and they're doing their thing and and resentment, bruise and bruise and bruise and bruise. And then, you know, when you're home and you're gone for whatever period of time, and you can't tell them where you were. And, you know, just talk about in a roundabout way. And I think that it wasn't right before. It was a few years before I left. But the wheels were falling off already. Because, you know, it was a really tough divorce. And then my son, I mean, everything that could happen was going to happen. I mean, you

cannot keep this shit from happening. It's just, you know, as much as you think it's not going to happen to you, it's, and especially if you go in different tracks, you know, the military has different tracks. You know, you can go and do certain things that are not going to put you in danger, you're going to do other things that, you know, and I chose a track that put me in the middle of a lot of different things, and that's what I wanted to do, you know, and so it's not good for your family, and it's not good for you and your kids, and so I think that,

I mean, I have to be honest, she's a good person. She was a really good mom. And she was a good woman. She is a good woman. And it was very difficult. I was going to ask you, it sounds like you have recovered your friendship post the divorce process. But it's been 14, 15 years now. Okay.

Okay. How long did it take? Do you mean to get over it? To get to a place where, well, selfishly I'm asking because. I would say, I'll tell you, yeah. It took years. It took probably close to nine to 10 years, 10 years. And I'll tell you, my youngest.

son got into drugs, but he wasn't just any drugs, you know, he started doing. And so here I'm working organized crime, drugs, money laundering gangs, and I'm in charge of, I'm co-located with the EA and LA working gangs. And my son, my youngest son is starting to, the wheels, you know, falling off, and I'm a single dad, he's staying with me. And, you know, when you break up and when you have the divorce situation, and you still got to keep him working, you just got to see people, keep doing the stuff that you're doing. And, you know, and what happens is that you're not going to go and tell your superiors what's happening. I'm not going to tell anybody. My subordinates, their problems are my problems. But my problems are my problems, not their problems. So I'm not telling anybody

anything. But I see what's happening. And my youngest son, he started slipping, and he was just killing me. And then it got to a point where, I mean, that happened in the process of separation. So it was already coming. And we had moved so much to, we were moving every two years, we were moving to another, you know, I either got promoted or I stepped down or, you know, and so my sons were just, you know, having to make friends all over again, new schools all over again, and so that was really hard on them. It really was. And so, and he, you know, it affects you.

You know, it does affect you, you know, like my oldest son, when he was about 10, you know, and we were moving. I had just gotten promoted and I got a GS-14 slot, you know, and I was going to Washington and I was going to the CID and then they had put me in a special operation division. And I remember I had come from a couple of things that I had been working on and my son sleeping on the floor next to my bed. I mean, he's in my bed, my wife's right here.

My son was sleeping on the floor. And I'm like, I wake up and I'm like, what are you doing there? And he was just worried about me. He was worried about what was going to happen. And I remember the teacher saying a note or something. and then I went saying something about my son having problems. He was really worried about you. He thinks that something's going to happen to you.

So, I mean, I told my son, hey, everything is cool, dude, and, you know, I'm good. And that was, you know, my oldest. And with my youngest, things were brewing, and we don't see it, you know. And in retrospect, it is what it is. I don't blame her. But I broke it off because it just wasn't there. It was just lots of resentment. in and we were just hanging on to something that wasn't there anymore.

And then by the time that happened, my youngest, the wheels fell out completely. And I had to put him into school. And we can talk about that later. But I had to send him away to a place in Utah in the mountains. I didn't have the money to afford that. But he got into some really gnarly drugs. And fast forward, he's a superstar. I mean, he made it through.

He conquered it all. How was he able to find his way out? Oh, my God. I mean, he got into some really... We're talking hard drugs? Hard, very hard. And, you know, when heroin, anybody, you know, any couple will tell you, you know, if you're smoking heroin, that's one thing.

I didn't even know you could smoke here, in the honest. Yeah, you go from smoking to injecting it. And that's where nobody comes back. Case of death. I don't care. I don't care who they are. It's just almost impossible. So my son, he was dabbling in all kinds of different things.

And then we, you know, I came to. to know it while I was still in the bureau, you know, and he was, and I knew something was up, and he had his friends, and I would come over to my house, and I would tell him, hey, you know, you got to get up, you got to go to school, you got to go do this, and in the meantime, I got to drive to L.A., and I got to run the operations that I'm running, and the squads that I'm running, and so anyway, the wheels fell off, and I had to interseat, and we were already separated and we were getting divorced, so he was living with me, and so it was the hardest thing as a parent, you're in law enforcement, you're doing all these things.

I'm talking to people. I mean, I'm dealing with LAPD, the Sheriff's Department, and we're task forces, this and that. We're going after the gangbangers, the drugs, the whole nine yards. And then here, I got a situation with my own son. And then nobody, you know, I mean, most people think, it doesn't happen to you. Yeah, it does happen to us.

And what happens is just it tears your heart. So my business partner now was my second in command at the time. And he was a Naval Academy graduate. He left a little. tenant commander, and then he joined the FBI. And we became great friends, and he's my business partner now. And I talked to him, and I, and he actually came over to my house, and then we literally searched this room, like if we were, like, serving a search warrant on my own son, and they came up with the stuff. How was he able to hide it? You know, he just, they just do it. I have zero

experience that I know of around heroin, so I'm not sure, like the ups and downs. He was able to do it. But, you know, he's an amazing kid. He's brilliant, smart. And, you know, the fact that he made it through all of it, I mean, he did, and he conquered all that to his credit. I mean, unbelievable. I mean, it's so difficult to come out of something like that, Andy, is incredibly difficult. Incredibly. You can ask anybody.

And he did. He made it through. And I put him into school, and, you know, I just hawked everything. And I said, fuck it. You know, if I got to leave, I leave. I'll go a private sector. I don't give a shit. Yeah, what else are you going to do?

I saw it's more important to me. You know, I'm done. You know, I've been there, done, dad. I'm running around circles doing the same shit over and over and over and over and I'm done. You know, I mean, I can help people. I'll teach the guys that are come past the baton, help them understand how to do the job and these and that. But at some point, we all got to go. You had to go.

I got to go. Surprisingly enough, the wheel rolls on. You know, nobody gives a shit. Really honestly, you know, you do. You can't leave, Tony. We can't do without you. And then you literally go to lunch and they think you're gone and your fucking desk has another person behind it. Done.

It's over. And, you know, U.S. government is the worst, you know. They have people like you leave walking in the encyclopedia and then just, you know, and they have to re-stead. The wheel, they have to recreate the wheel all over again, all over fucking again. But, you know, I knew full, you know, and I just got to a point that I just like, you know, fuck it. I got divorced, you know. I mean, the FAA retirement is not freaking great. You know, it's just like a freaking 401K plus the social security, plus the first, you know, the first system, you know.

And so the bottom line is like, shit, you know, I'm freaking too old. I'm going to have to work another fucking 30 years to recover all that. I'm just, you know, I'm just going to go and take whatever I get and whatever I got and I'm going to go in the private sector. And I'm just going to make it on my own. And I'm not going to hold back because I'm going to, I love my son, just like you love your. kids. I freaking love them with everything and I'll fucking, I'll take a bullet, I'll do whatever, I got to do and I did. And you know, you go into it thinking, well, you know, maybe, I mean, you ask God, you know, whatever the powers that be, hey, help me. I'm doing everything I can

here. And I did. You know what? And to his credit, he made it through. And my son, he's a fucking rock star now. He's unbelievable. I have so much admiration or respect for him. I don't know, honestly, if I was in his shoes that I could have been able to pull it off, knowing what I know, and haven't been... I've seen what you saw. Andy, it is so difficult because people, you know, it's just... But his, you know, it's funny, when he wasn't that school, you know, I look, you look for ways to bond with a kid, you know, and I don't have your background, you know, I didn't come from the military, you know, into the FBI. You know, we can talk about that later.

But to bond with him, you know, to see my son and he would tell me, yeah, I want to go in the military, I want to do this. He didn't do it, but... But, and I went to the mountains. He was in Utah, you know, way on top of... on a freaking mountain, you know, in Kusherom. And he pulled it through. You know, he really did. He just, you know, and I just told me, it was like a boot camp.

He was in. It was like a gulag. Yeah. You know, freaking. Some people need that. Some freaking temperatures. I mean, he did stuff that he was telling me that they had to do and all that. And you know what?

He's a rock star for it. And then he came out of that. Not only that, he graduated from college. He went on to do amazing things. He did an internship with NASA. Really? No kidding. I mean, how does he view that time in his life now?

You know, we've talked. I know he loves me very much, and we have a great friendship. We have an amazing friendship. We really do. And it's one of the most valuable things in my life. And if I had to do all of a thing, I'll do anything for my son. And I know he would do the same thing for me. You know, it's like, you know, somebody in your squad, you just fucking, you just don't have to ask me anything.

Don't have anything. I'm going to fucking, I'll be there. Tell me what time and I'm there. I don't we give a shit, you know. And how does you, you know, he, he, he, uh, he, uh, he, uh, he, uh, uh, You know, I think he draws from it. He really draws from it. And when he came out from that, it was like a boot camp from hell

because I was hearing from the people that were there. And I wouldn't say anything. You're getting the reports. Let me tell you. Yeah, I was. And he would tell me the stuff that was going on. And he was out there and, you know, sub-freezing fucking temperatures, you know, like probably like one of the worst, you know,

it's just the top of mountain in fucking Utah where, you know, I don't know what the altitude was, but it was just like sub-freezing cold. And he was telling me the things he did with his friends, you know, They, you know, he'd make friends with the bunkmates, and they had no TV, no nothing, you know, just reading. No phones, no nothing. So he read the equivalent of what most people will read in a 20-year period. He read it while he was up there. I bet.

And he was not going to leave until he graduated from high school. And so, you know, and I had tension with my ex-wife all the way up to that point. I mean, we were like just at each other's just. Cats and dogs. Yeah. And I just told her, she just, you know, you know, just stay the hell out of the way. You know, we got to save him. And then, you know, eventually, you know, you just got to let go.

And I just figured, you know, I got to let go. I have nothing against her. If anything, you know, shit put up with my shit forever, you know. And I have beautiful sons and I love them and I want us to be friends. And if we can't, at least let's just, you know, and we did. Eventually we've reached a point where we're friendly. And that's important, you know, because, you know, ultimately, you know, your kids are going to be, I mean, they're in the teens, you know, they're 20s, and they're going to be 30s.

And, you know, I mean, when I hear my own, when I hear myself say, my son's 35, my son, holy, I can't fathom that even. I mean, when you, you know, who the fuck are you? Yeah. And, you know, it's my son. So the, both of them, you know, the bright, smart, you know, they need to be given an opportunity. And, you know, sometimes what happens is, you know, shit happens, you know. I mean, you have the way you grow up. I mean, you can only blame so much on that.

you know and and but you have to draw from it you know and but you also have to have somebody that believes in you you have to have somebody someone that believes in you somebody that throws a lifeline somebody they maybe you look up to and i think you know we want to be superheroes to our sons we are when they're three four five six by the time they get 10 and 11 and a half you know whatever that's my dad i don't i don't know what fuck you know and hey are you going to do what your dad did shit no man are you fucking crazy that's exactly how my sons are something You know, it's like, like, hard pass. I don't think so.

Yeah. It's like, hey, dad, it's true, you know. So, but, so we have a friendly relationship. And, you know, I had to talk to her about the book, you know, because I wanted to get a perspective from her, you know, on how she felt. How'd that talk go? It went good, you know, it went good. Because, you know what happens is like, it just, you know, I mean, I'm not as young as

look, Andy. Okay. I'm not a fucking as young as. I look, you know, time fucking clicks, you know, man. And I'm 60 years old, okay? And, you know, we're at the same age. You know, I got married young, you know, and had, you know, all that, you know, you, this one thing about being young, you think fucking nothing can ever happen to you. This guy is right and your futures, you know, and then reality fucking sets in.

And then then you pursue what you want to do. So if you ask me now, knowing what I know, would I do it all over again, absolutely, I will do it all over again. I just wouldn't do it all over again with the knowledge I have now. Yeah. I want to have the wisdom and the knowledge and the know-how that I have now, and that's how I would do it. But would I do it? Yeah.

Yeah. You know, I came through the greatest country in the world, okay? I grew up in Caracas, Venezuela. I was born there. I was born in Caracas. And I came here when I was 15 years old. And I didn't speak a word of English. You know, from the moment I woke up and I was, you know,

so I'm dating myself here. I grew up in, I was born in 1962, so I came here in the mid-70s. And so America was everything. I mean, let's put it this way. I was born 16 years after World War II was over, okay? So there were a lot of European. I mean, fucking Europe. That's an interesting way to look at that.

Yeah. I mean, we really think about it. I mean, 16 years. And so what's happening in Europe? I mean, is Ukraine, but, I mean, all over the place. So imagine Ukraine's been flattened to the freaking ground. There's not a fucking building. standing, right? We'll take that and multiply by every freaking country in Europe. Okay, what are those

people doing? They're going to get jobs somewhere. So the people are going to Argentina. They're going everywhere, you know, and they're going all over the world. And so a lot of them went to Argentina, Chile, Venezuela. You know, the Nazis were freaking going to South America. Yeah. They were just going to there. Fast. And there were a lot of them in Venezuela. You know, there's a show Netflix, you know, some Agent Garbo, who was like the agent that whatever. He moved to Venezuela. And so the, you know, you know, he moved to Venezuela. And so the, you. You know, all these European migrations after the war were going all over the world. So a lot of them came to Venezuela.

And so when I was growing up, I was growing up with a lot of, you know, first and second generation immigrants, you know, from all over the world. And Venezuelans. And my family had been in Venezuela for hundreds and hundreds of years. And my great-great-grandfather, and I'll tell you how my old affinity, the military and all these other stuff. My great-great-grandfather was Simon Belivar. was the liberator.

He was the George Washington of the South American Revolution. Okay, so Venezuela didn't exist. Colombia didn't exist. None of these countries existed. There were colonies of Spain. And just like the colonies of England. So England had their colonies here

and they had the colonies down there. So when Napoleon Bonaparte, for those that don't know, he was doing like what Putin's trying to do or what Hitler did, was wreaking havoc in Europe and he took over Spain, literally. And he put his brother on the throne of Spain, Joseph.

And then the colonies were thinking the same things the colonies were thinking here. It's like, hey, taxation without representation, we're going to rebel. So they took that opportunity to rebel and to liberate themselves from Spain. And Simon Believer was that George Washington. Well, Simon Believer happened to be a Mason, just like George Washington was a Mason. And just like Jefferson and this country was created by masons. They get a bad rap, but. You're talking about masons, the group or masons like the stone?

Masonic, Masonic. Because my father was a Mason, but it was mostly brick and block, not like the secret meetings where they, like, give each other hand jobs or whatever they do there. Yeah, yeah. Whatever, you know. But, hey, they put the country together. But, you know, they had that idealism. He had that idealism.

And so they started that whole revolution thing. And my great-grandfather was the second in command. And so there. And so when Napoleon placed his brother on the throne, the revolution started. So what happened after that was Napoleon was the throne, basically. He was beaten on all that. And so the king of Spain came back in, you know, was reinstated to the throne. And then he kind of gathered the armies and the generals who were really experienced

that fought all these battles and put an army together and said, I want to get all these colonies in line. So he sent the freaking Spanish armada with all these seasoned soldiers. And then the battles ensued and all that. And so I had heard all these stories from my ancestors and my great grandmother and all that. And so all those were part of, you know, how I grew up and all that. And so I always had an affinity to want to be like in law enforcement or the military and all that. I came here at 15.

I assume you came with your family. Well, no. I came with my dad. My mom and dad were getting divorced, and actually they, I think they were about to get divorced, or we're almost very close to that. And that kind of led up to how we got here. So, you know, they just, they fought like cats and dogs, you know, just divorces and all that. And then what happened was one day my mom got into it with my brother, and my mom.

My dad had moved out. He was living in my grandfather's place somewhere near the Caracas Country Club. And then my mom kicked my brother out. And then I was in the middle of the whole thing. I was in the crosshairs of the freaking firefight there. And then she looked at me and said, you know, if you want to go live your dad, you know, go live with your dad. So I said, well, shit. You know, so my dad came, picked us up. And then he started talking to us about coming here. And my dad had gone to Cheshire Academy.

And a lot of the families there sent their kids to either Europe or to military academies in the United States, and then they went back and they get educated here and then they would go back. So my dad came here when he was 13 and spoke English perfectly. And then when he went back to Venezuela, spoke English perfectly. He studied at the military academy here. And so he kept on talking about that. And his father saw what was coming in Venezuela. My grandfather saw that coming.

And so he started talking about it. about it and he mentioned it to us. And he says, how did you guys like to move to the United States? So I saw it as a vacation. I was a kid, you know? So it's like, huh, okay, well, yeah, sure, you know, but you can't say anything to your mom. So that might be illegal.

You can't say anything to her, you know. Don't say anything your mom about leaving the country. So yeah, so my dad, yeah, he did. So he got the visas and he got the stuff. I thought he was going to be a vacation. I thought I was going to be here for a little time. And but it just turned out that that wasn't the case, you know. Where'd you guys arrive?

Miami. So we got to Miami and then from Miami we drove all the way to Salt Lake City. Not the shortest commute. No, because my dad thought it would be a good opportunity for us to see the country, for him to talk to us. A part of the country. Yeah. And then give us, you know, pep talks about what would happen. And still it didn't sink in my head that we were going to be here.

I just figured, you know, I'm just going to be here for a while. and it's great. And, you know, and Venezuela, even though it was pretty dangerous. I mean, growing up in Venezuela, it's just, I mean, right now it's like freaking has the highest per capita of freaking crime rates off the, you know, of the Richter scale. I mean, Karakistan, you know, basically. I mean, you get killed left and right. So I grew up in this neighborhoods where, you know, you're on 24-7.

I mean, the moment you step out of your house, boom, your antenna's up. You know, you just like, boom, you know, you notice things you don't know is anywhere else. and you're fighting for your life. You're literally fighting for your life. So I had that coming here, and I have to give it to my mom. My mom was great in the sense that she was a fucking drill sergeant. From a moment I woke up, to the moment I went to bed, my mom was gnarly.

Now when you look at the book and you see a picture there, now I recognize, I see that my mom was a very beautiful woman. But when I was a kid, I didn't see that. You know, she's my mom. She's my mom. But I'm looking at the picture, I'm going, Jesus, my mom was beautiful. But she was gnarly.

And she was training us to survive. And I wish she just backed it up a little bit, but, you know, but she was gnarly. She was very tough. You know, if I came home and I lost the fight, I get beat up. And if I got bad grades, she was on, hey, you go to your room, you're not going to know. I mean, I get freaking hit with the belt. And it was like freaking lashes, man. I mean, I just, she just didn't go, I'm going to hit you right here.

You know, I just get hit and she missed. It was a freaking welts on my arms or at the tip of a freaking, you know, where you can, the notches where you put your. your belt thing on and I go to school and kids knew I got freaking hit. And so, yeah, my mom was freaking tough. And, you know, I remember a time that we were getting portraits, you know. It's not the 1800s, but, you know. Yeah.

So you go and get the portraits, you know, the pictures. And so my mom took this space. And this woman, who was Russian, thought that my mom cut her off or whatever. So my mom parks, you know, the lady comes up to my mom. and just walked slowly and my mom had the window down and caught my mom completely by surprise. Boom! Hit her. I think she punched her or slapped her in the face.

And walked away and my mom goes, holy, she just freaking turned red. And she was in Achila, you know, like for the Cubs Cowell. So she had her scout knife and her purse. So she reached out for the purse, pulled out a scat knife, turned around, looked at my brother, me and my sister and said, sit down in Spanish. Stay there. She pulled out the knife and we're all like,

holy shit, what's mom going to do? She gets out of the car, gets her scatnep. out knife, walks up, the lady sees her, gets in the car, shuts the doors, rolls up the window, we're all looking, you know, my brother, me and my sister going, holy shit. And then my mom yells that, and we can hear, she takes a knife and she punctures every single tire in the car, gets back in the car, and yells in a bunch of a fucking bitch or something like that in Spanish, and gets back in the car, puts the knife in the purse, and then calmly, like, you know, Dr. Jekl, Mr. Hyde, okay, let's go.

We're like, holy shit. I mean, this is my mom. Your mom was a boss. I'm used to, my mom. So we get home, and she's telling the story, my grandmother. My grandmother, she wore black. Every seven years somebody died, and so seven years of black, and then more black, and, you know, whatever. She's a hardcore Catholic.

And so she's telling the story, my grandmother, who goes to church and, like, almost, she could go every day. She would go every day. And then she gets to the part where she pulls the knife out, and I went in. My grandma thinks she stabbed the lady. So my grandmother, oh, my God. And she starts crying, no, mom. with the so that was my mom I mean my mom like for example like you know she promised she was going to make a shakes one day you know shake shakes so we were like freaking we were going to hold her to the shakes

you know so we get home you know shake shaking she's changed her mind she don't want to fucking making shakes she didn't feel like making shakes so we get to the kitchen she's making meat and potatoes and stuff and then my brother and I weren't going to let her off the hook you know mom you said you weren't going to get so finally she loses it so she grabs our food goes to the freaking blender puts the potatoes, the meat, everything. It puts freaking drinking there and makes the freaking shake with meat, potato, everything. Just thick, brown thing. An early protein shake.

Puts it down and we're kids. And we're like, drink it. And she made us drink it. I mean, this, yeah. That's savage. Yeah, yeah, it was, it was. And she was, she was tough. She was really, really tough.

And I wasn't the real fighter. my brother was my brother was the fighter he was like he was just freaking brutal and i just didn't i wanted to get like turdage my brother had but i just like what the fuck is my brother get that fucking just but i just you know and uh so my mom would always ask my brother how i did you know and you get in fights in school and you get things happen and um there was another time that uh just you know what happens is like my mom would drive us to school and you sometimes you couldn't You know, you can just, it's just not like here. And even Montana or even LA, or even like the worst place in freaking, you know,

you can still go to the store and stuff and you can still have stuff. You just have to have your antenna out. And she would like, she would ask questions and about what happened. And, you know, my brother sometimes was just like, oh, he did really well, mom. He did did really good. You would be proud of him and got my ass kicked. So she, my brother insulted some gang member. that you know it was always you know it was just gang that it was always after us you know

and and we were at school i don't know what he said to the guy or whatever but anyway so they blocked my mom had her Volkswagen and she would pick us up to school and then picked us up one day and so she's driving off to school and then you know they blocked the car wouldn't let it go my mom was gnarly she gets out of the fucking car and then she who's the boss kinness el hefe you know so gets out of the freaking car and then throws them off because he throws their their rhythm off because they're still teenagers and they're deadly, but they're like, who the hell is this woman? You know, it's like, what do you got there?

What do you got there? And she gets them to empty their pockets and everything. And by then we had been in karate for a little bit, so we kind of knew a little bit how to fight. And so my mom leans over, and I was hoping she had asked my brother because my brother was badass. And I just, you know, she leans over to me and she says, you.

And she leans over in the corner and she says, get out there. You better kick his ass. If you don't, I will kick your ass. she gets she gets me out and I have to fight this case and yeah that's what my mom did one more time I'll tell you one more

other one that I thought about it and I know these things you know I never shared these things with my son so probably some of them are going to hear for the first time but another time I was at school and I didn't mean to do this

but I did it but I did it anyway so this kid just kept on picking on me and he was a I went to a school It's a private school, Catholic schools. And some of the diplomatic kids went to, like, it wasn't an international school, but we'll put him into school.

So this kid, and he, I don't know what country he was from, but he was a pain in the ass, and he was always trying to bully me and pick him on me. And so I got tired of his shit. And so he was walking away. We were on a field trip or something, and I'd grab a rock. And I just meant to hit him on the shoulder.

You know, I meant to, like, just... Big rock or little rock? It was probably, like, baseball size. Relatively large rock. Yeah, well, you know, maybe smaller. But, you know, I didn't mean to, I didn't want to really, I just wanted to freaking, I was tired of the, you know. You were trying to leave a message. Yeah.

And, but I hit him in the head. So, you know, head wounds bleed a lot, as you know. Yeah. And he'd lifted his scalp just a little bit. So he was just bleeding and blah. He was a mess. Anyway, so I got in trouble with the priest and this and that. So they called my parents and my mom, my dad couldn't make it.

So my mom goes. So as you go to school, I'm like, oh, shit, you know, I'm going to get it now, blah, blah, blah. So they're telling my mom the whole thing, and I'm sitting there, and I'm just like, you know, not saying anything. And my mom's taking it all in. And then she literally tells them, and she actually praises me. She looks at me and she says, you know, good job. I have told my sons never to take blah, blah, blah. And she used a bunch of stuff in Spanish, you know.

So, I mean, I was stunned. I mean, I knew my mom, but I just, I thought this time, you know, I get in the car and she took me to get some. ice cream and she was praising me for the and I'm thinking to myself even there I mean most parents wouldn't react that way so my mom was that so and did she cuddle me and how come here honey that shit never happened to my mom never and so did I have a really close relationship with her no do I love her yeah and do I admire her yeah and in fact I talked to her like two three weeks ago I was talking she's really old and she'd go hey mom she got to do it all over again I brought her the United States yeah and and her mind's intact her body she's old old but

and mine is like a freaking 25 year old. So I said, would you have? She goes, absolutely. We'll never do it any other way. So, you know, and I'm thinking to myself, you know, my mom, it was amazing. And I love, I love, she trained me to be who I am. And I won't, you know, never take shit from anybody, period. And I just, I mean, that was programmed in me.

And I also knew that looking back when I talked to people and I said, look, I look, I look, I grew up in a really freaking gnarly country. And, you know, and look at the fucking wheels fell off because the fucking socialist took over. And, you know, by the way, if you're freaking want to know what socialism's like, move to fucking Caracas, Venezuela. Check it out. Yeah. I'll make arrangements for you. You know.

Yeah, I think the people currently in the U.S. pushing for democratic socialism have absolutely no idea what it looks like. They freaking, you know what? I mean, they're freaking, they got back up with their smoking because I'll tell you what, they have. They have no idea. Yeah, they're out of the minds. They're entitled man. They're just reading a lot of books. And, you know, it's not what it is.

You just go down there. If you don't like this country, move down there. I'll make arrangements right now. This is the greatest country in the world, period. End of the story. I knew it when I came here. When I became a U.S. citizen was the greatest day in my entire life. I had brand new suit, brand new tie, it's shining my shoes.

I couldn't freaking wait. I was so freaking proud of being. part of, I wanted to be an American from ever since I could remember. And my dad even tells me that he's like, where did that come from? I was that I wanted, I just wanted to be in America. And I wanted to, and I wanted to fight the freaking wars. I wanted to do all that. My dad was glad that I didn't, I didn't, I have a visa.

You can't. Oh, good. Thank God. You can't walk in through recruiting, you know, until I, you know, and we can talk about that. But, you know, it, when people talk to me, they think they're going to get some other story. No, fuck you. You know what?

This is the greatest country in the world. world and you need to keep it that way. There is a reason for this. This is why it works. You know, look at Venezuela. Look at Cuba. I mean, what are they doing over there? You know, they've taken everything away. You know, that is socialism. People will tell to me, tell me, oh, well, that's apples and origins. It's different. Or they'll say that that's socialism applied incorrectly. Yeah. No, it's not applied incorrectly. I mean, that's what it looks like. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, they basically, at one point, that country was the most, prosperous, you know, democracy in Latin America. Look at it right now. I mean, the wheels fell off.

Why? Because they just took over. They took all the different rights. And one of the things that I was mentioning to earlier is that it was very similar to here. You know, you have a Congress, you have the Senate, you have this, you have that. They did the same thing. They infiltrated. I mean, I said that is funny. My business partner tells me all the time, he says, man, you were calling it. I was like, dude, I told you. This is what they're trying to do here. It's not a playbook that they're riding as they go. It's something that's been used historically. Absolutely. We're just monkeys as human beings and can remember about seven seconds backwards. Absolutely. Infiltrate and get in and start wreaking havoc and then you can stack this and stack that, misinformation, disinformation, fake news,

this and that. And then you can get the masses to whatever they want. Yeah. You know, in the meantime, you know, the country starts, you know, deteriorating. And so when you look at somebody like me, Absolutely not. I want America to be the America that I came to, period. You know, there's always going to be divisions. There's always going to be somebody that doesn't fucking like you. So why? You don't like my fucking haircut.

I don't really give it shit, you know? Call me late to pay day. I mean, you could call me whatever you want. You know, it just, it doesn't matter. Yeah. Who cares, really? I mean, but now, I mean, you have to watch out what the pronoun. I mean, I just finally thought I knew how I learned English.

Now I've got to learn pronouns. You know, I've got to learn different things. And I get it. I get people get offended. and I get people that, but, you know, and I think that it's important to have, you know, respect for other people, but I mean, it's just, you know, you get to a point where they just without boundaries, it goes too far. I was talking to my middle son about this yesterday.

We're having a really in-depth conversation. He just left to go on a trip with his mom. And I, God, I cherish my time with him, talking with him. 16-year-old brain, I'm like, fuck, you're actually smarter than me now, which is terrifying, but also not a super high threshold to get over. over. But he, you know, we were talking about a meme you see going around where easy times create weak men. Weak men create hard times, hard times create hard men. And it's just a cycle that we're on. And there certainly, obviously, are varying levels of existence in this country.

Literally today I was sitting down. And at the restaurant I was eating at before we met, there was a guy completely slumped over, obviously in a drug-induced. coma, you know, it was eventually woken up and he walked off right before the police ended up being called. I can totally empathize with who that person is. I'm not saying that it's great for everybody, but I think most people have no idea how good it actually is. So we are in an environment where they are creating artificial hardships.

It's, it's, and I hate to say that, but that's where I, it's where I'm, pronouns. Like, I totally believe with people being treated. with respect, but there is a point where it goes too fucking far. And also, I don't have to believe what you believe. Like, if you want to identify as a rhinoceros, go ahead. Exactly. But you're not going to compel me to call you a rhinoceros. I'll treat you with respect, but I am under no obligation to believe what you believe. But I also can respect your beliefs. And I feel like people are looking for fights. They're looking for arguments because shit, in the grander scheme of things is so easy. And I mean, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, you know, I,

I think I have the benefit of having traveled to, we'll just call it some one-star locations on TripAdvisor, where I can't unsee the things that I saw and I can't unsee the hardships. You want to talk about oppression. You want to talk about, I mean, we're talking about villages living off of a car battery with a wire that goes to a fucking light bulb. And they're bathing and shitting in the water that they drink from. So I listen to a lot of this. Absolutely.

And I don't understand it. And I try to empathize. but it has to reach a boundary where reasonable people push back. Otherwise, I think we're proper fucked. I agree. I mean, I agree with you. You know, and again, I go back to that. You know, I mean, I came to a country that gave me so many opportunities.

This would have never happened anywhere else. I mean, I come from Venezuela, 15 years old. I don't speak any English. I mean, I have a dream. I want to be a U.S. citizen and I want to be in the military. And I became an FBI agent, you know. And how did that happen? How would that happen for an immigrant?

And you know what? I assimilated. And I said to myself, I'm going to learn English. I didn't speak any English. I was you say, how was it landing in Salt Lake at 15 with not being able to communicate other than obviously with your family? Well, you know, I mean, he got worse. You know, my dad and my grandfather, my grandfather had, he didn't know he had cancer, but he had cancer later on. And then, you know, so but he knew he needed to get his son out. And so he wanted to invest some of his wealth.

And my dad was in the insurance business. So they met some scammer. he was courting a lot of wealthy Venezuelans, you know, we'll get your money invested in the United States because, you know, the wheels are going to fall off in Venezuela. And so anyway, one thing led to another, and then my grandfather bought into it, and he was ill, and he wasn't probably all there, you know, all there.

You know, it just, and so he was trying to do right by his son, and my dad got ripped off. And my grandfather lost probably half his wealth in the process. And so, I mean, not long after we got here, I mean, my dad finds out that we had lost. everything oh shit everything i mean done and so my dad was flying we were latsky kids and my dad wasn't worried about it because you know i grew up in a really dangerous environment i mean if the spiders don't kill you the snakes don't kill you you're going to wrong river there's got piranas and you'll get eaten

by fucking piranhas and if piranhas don't kill you then there's going to be some dude down the street your neighbors will your neighbors will so i mean you're in constant freaking danger so when i come here 15 i think i'm in heaven i land at the airport of course these is 70s you know and i see a freaking candy machine and I'm like holy shit there's candy in that machine and what's going through my head he was like oh my god baby Ruth you know I mean little tiny little things you know eyes in an ice maker you know caller TV we had no caller TV we're like three channels you know I mean here's a I mean and I remember seeing some guys working out on a TV show and I don't if I was with friends or who I was with but I saw this guy's just buffed you know with this

freaking I'm like where is that and somebody says to me they're in print And I'm like prison. Jesus Christ, prison. That big? They look like they're happy. I mean, even prison. This guys were buffed working out. And I'm thinking, Jesus Christ, you should try prison somewhere else because they're not that nice.

I mean, they're eating all they want to, having all the sex they want to, and just working out a lot. Maybe not consensual sex, but they're getting after it. So it's just like everything was just amazing. I mean, and so there was nothing. So my dad left us, you know, because. because he figured, you know, they can take care of themselves. And he gave us instructions, and he knew we weren't going to break. I mean, he could trust us.

He wasn't telling us what was going on. So he wasn't telling us what was going on. And you're 15, you don't detect it. And besides that, I'm too busy taking in all the adventure of being in America. Yeah. In Salt Lake City. So I get a job as a grocery bagger, and I'm, you know, working from some lady down the street and this and that. And my dad comes back.

And he basically tells us, you know, that he lost everything. So the magnitude of it didn't hit me. because it just doesn't hit you. You just don't understand it. You don't have any context. You know, yeah, exactly. I have no frame of reference to be able to understand what does that mean, Dad. I mean, you're going to be fine, right?

And, you know, I mean, we're going to get, you know. So he had met someone who he's married now. It's my stepmom. And so one thing led to another, and he realized that he wasn't going to be able to get a job in Utah. So he moved to California. And then we had made a decision. And I think I was part of that decision. I participated in it, which was we stay.

and finished high school. But I had been in private schools in Venezuela. And so when I came here, high school was really easy. I mean, there's nothing. The only thing you really had to learn was English, really. Did you learn English through school? Yeah, I did. I went to an immersion school that summer,

and then I learned it as best I could, and then I was going to high school. And then I didn't understand the freshman, junior, senior. That means nothing to me. I mean, I wasn't on a different system. And so I started going to the high school and my dad left. And so we made arrangements tentatively with some neighbors, things, but those things fell apart from me. My brother stayed with his girlfriend, which is his current wife.

They've been married like 45 years or something like that. But I didn't tell anybody. So for a little while I was there, and then after that I was just, I was homeless. I was floating around a little bit. I didn't tell anything to anybody. Just kind of couch surfing. I just couch surfing. That's exactly what I did.

And then I'd stay with friends and nobody knew. And then, you know, I would take showers at the high school. And then, you know, and the cafeteria. In those days, you know, so I just ate up people. freaking food and and then I would save it for it for later you know and I just survived that way and but to me because when I talk to people and said well how did you feel I'm fucking I feel great I'm in America I mean even homeless people had it good I remember thinking that I'm thinking Jesus crease I mean homeless people here have it great so I mean and I'm not saying that I'm in a bad

way I'm just saying from my frame of reference from where I came from you know the worst place here was better than the place, place there. And even though I felt that I have some privileges there compared to here, it was nothing because there was so much magic to being in America. So for that period of time, and then towards the end, I think it's a month, maybe a couple months or something, through a friend that I had met at the immersion school, his uncle, and he wasn't, his aunt had married a Marine, the former Marine, they fought in World War II. And he fought in World War II, and then he was settled in Utah, had a daughter.

And so he saw me coming, and he saw, you know, I was wearing the same shirt all the time, same shoes. Sometimes it looked like I took a shower, sometimes I didn't. So, you know, he's on 10, I went out. He put two and two together. He's figuring out, this sums up, hey, so are your parents and this and that and blah, blah, blah. So he was an awesome guy. He had been through shit, and, you know, and he was a tough dude. he looked like a bulldog and he was just short, tough, you know, guy, but he's really nice to me.

So, well, it turns out he had done this for 20 other kids, you know, not just me, yeah. And my friend was from Peru, and he's of Italian background. He was funny because later on when I became an FBI agent, I found out his dad, because he always wondered everybody's dad was actually a mobster from Sicily who moved to Peru and married to Peruvian. But anyway, that was another story. But anyway, so he's this Italian kid from Peru. speaks no Italian, but so anyway, he offers me, this gentleman, this former Marine offers me to

stay at his basement. And you know, he had his Japanese flag there and the things that he had. And he was this little man cave and then slept on the couch. And to me, it was heaven, you know, and, you know, I peed in a jar. And, you know, I just for me. And then, you know, I sold him clothes and whatever and and then my dad connected with him later and then my dad was able to to send me 10 bucks one time and then my mom sent me 40 and I was in heaven I bought a pair of D-D-S you know they still have the same styles now but but I would never tell anybody during the whole entire time anything I didn't really care I wasn't embarrassed I wasn't in shame I didn't care and I but I knew that if they knew that my parents weren't around I didn't know that something would happen so sure so that was that

and then but I loved it you know I really loved it and I was so it in, you know, and in fact, I saw it like later on, years later, there's a show like the 70s show, you know, and that type fest. It's funny because he's actually from Venezuela and half-columbian. And I knew it because when he said some things in that show, I thought, man, he's accent. He sounds like, you know. But so that was, that was it. And I, he was great to me.

And a lot of former, a lot of military guys were very good to me, very good, just out of nowhere. You know, just for some reason. and, you know, they were good to me as I was growing. So this gentleman did that for me. He didn't have to. And I had an opportunity when I sent my son to that school. Andy, this is bizarre. So I had to send my son to that school in the mountains, right?

And I just told him, I said, he's not getting out until, you know, I mean, I don't care if he's got leave or whatever. He's just never coming out until he gets his diploma. And he's done with this thing that he's got going. But I would go and visit him. and I was still in the FBI. So I go up there, and, you know, so I picked them up one day.

You know, he was towards the end of his thing. And he was coming through pretty good. You know, I was getting really good reports and all that. So we drove from Cusharum, all the way to Salt Lake City. So I decided, you know, I want to bond with my son, you know, I want to bond with him. And I know I've been gone all the time. And I don't know how to bond with my son.

So I took all my guns up there. I took my MP5 and my six hour. You're just traveling with an MP5? Yeah, I took all my stuff to Cacharum. I had him in the truck. You know, so, and I had, and so I found a place, you know, that some local told me that we can go out shooting out there. There's plenty of places you can go shooting in Utah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so we did, and we bonded with that because I just wanted to bond with my son, and I wanted to put him through, you know, a little shooting range thing and all that.

And they grew up around it anyway, but I just, you know, find a way to bond with him. And then he also started really liking reading. So he was reading a lot. So, and then I decided I'm going to take him to the high school I went to. So we drove there, you know. And it was bizarre because the high school was like a time capsule. And the back door of the high school was open. So we parked and then I told them, oh, shit. I said, Dylan, I actually learned how to drive driver's head right there. And that's the same fucking place and the cars are right there. And it was like a time capsule and I go, oh my God.

So we park and then we go in the back and the cafeteria door is open. Oh, no way. We're going to sneak in. And so they were refurbishing. I mean, we came at a time that we were going to about to change the look of the school and we just hit it right on time, right? So we walked through the hallways, and so it gave me an opportunity to tell my son,

dude, I went to the school. I was 15. I didn't speak any English. I'm telling him, dude, you can come out of this. You know, I'm giving the whole pep talk that dads would, but I wanted to connect with him. It gets even better than that. So as I'm driving down to South Sollick City,

I decided drive by the Marines House. So I drive by there and I show him, this is the bowling alley. I used to bowl with. with my buddy and blah, blah, blah, and we drive by the Marine's house. As he's drive by the house, the car pulls up, opens the door. This lady gets out, and then all of a sudden, the Marine gets out. He just came out of the hospital, Andy, and he has a freaking IV.

He's in his 90s. He's getting out, and I'm sitting in the freaking car with my son on the passenger side, who's at the time 16, okay, he's 30 now, 16, and he's looking at it, and I'm like, Like, holy shit, Dylan, that's him. That's the mister. I used to call him the mister. That's the mister. And he goes, are you sure?

And he goes, yeah, it's him. That's his daughter. So his daughter was going to law school at the time. But she was a judge. Oh, boy. Like in Supreme Court instead of Utah. So I just knew him by first name. I should have called her honor.

Yeah. So my son says, Dad, get out of the car. Get out. So we both get out. We both get out, Andy. And I go right. I go right up to him and he's like shuffling, you know, with his IV, you know, going to get to the steps, you know, those houses, you know, from pre-war War War II houses, you know, in Utah.

And then she turns around and looks at me, can I help you? And I said, Sheila, it's me, Tony. And he took her a second. He turned around and immediately knew. Tony. And I was like, holy shit, he remembered Tony. Oh, you know, and I said, Mr. How are you? And I said, I'm introduced you to my son.

Come on in. So shuffle in there, put the IV, open the door. The house is a freaking time capsule again. I mean, this guy never moved anything. Here's the couch. Here's where he sits. He sits down. He puts the thing and we start conversing.

We start talking and how are you? It's been, what, 30 years? 30 plus years since I've seen him. So I'm talking to her. I still don't know that she's like a Supreme Freaking Court judge, right? okay I just knew she was going to to law school at the time and I was a teenager and and my son's there and it was it was divine intervention because my son got to experience and see all these things through my eyes excuse me through my eyes Andy he got to see these

things through my eyes and then and then I said we're talking and everything I said hey Shill, do you mind if we go down to, like downstairs where I used to sleep? No, no, no, that's fine. Nobody's been there since you guys were there. And I'm like, what? So we start walking down. I go down with Dylan. We opened the door, Andy.

And it was exactly, it was like I was walking back into time. And here I'm... That's crazy. I've been, I mean, I mean, 30 years later. And I'm telling Dylan, as I'm narrating, you know, you would have thought he was like Geraldo Rivera, you know, in the vault of Al Capone, you know, right? or something like that. And I'm walking and I'm telling Dylan,

this is exactly like it was back then. I mean, on the couch and everything. So anyway, we spent a little bit of time there. We walked back up and then I sit down on the couch. And then I ask him to finish a story he had begun to tell me and he was interrupted 30 years earlier. So when he was, you know, back in the day against the Japanese, his camp had gotten overrun by the Japanese.

So he's telling me the story. And I was sitting in that same couch and I told my son, Dylan, he's going to tell me a story that he started telling me. me 30 years ago and never finished. That's a real cliffhanger. And I asked him, I said, so what did you do with a grenade? And the story was that

his camp was getting overrun. And so he had a grenade, pulled a pin, and then they got overrun. And he had to hold onto the freaking grenade because he... Fuck. Uh-huh. And so he went under a truck

and the phone rang, and he never finished the story. And he just left me in the back of my head. So he finished the story. He just told me, Well, the Marines came back, rescued them. They got on a Jeep, and he threw it as far as he could. Yeah, it got the hell out of there.

And it got the hell out of there. And anyway, we left there, and I thought that was divine intervention. It was something that will never happen, and it happened, and he helped me connect with my son and in such a powerful and deep way. And, you know, sometimes, hey, you know what? I don't know if it's the universe God, whatever. Sometimes serendipity, sometimes synchronicity. Sometimes things happen because they need to happen and that's just the way it is and

Took him back to the school and He did amazingly well graduated and you know and forevermore I told him we relished that moment That was a moment in time that I relish and now you know he's sturdy and he is Freaking awesome and I love him and he really pulled through and I'll tell you Andy if I don't know that I could have done it I'll tell you that much the shit that he went through. Yeah. Because it's mental.

You know, it's all in your mind. Everything is mental. You know that. And the mind and the physical and the aspects of it and the thing that he had to go through. In fact, when he was telling me the stories, I wouldn't say anything. I was like, Jesus freaking Christ. This is like freaking. Yeah.

Narnly stuff. Yeah. So, yeah. Wow. So how did you find your way to the FBI? Given where you started and obviously bouncing around and finding that gentleman that kind of offered you his home. Yeah, yeah.

And so once graduation time came, then my dad came and graduated and all that, we moved to California. So, and then at this point, my dad is just frigging just trying to scratch your living. You know, he's just lost everything. He's trying to speak English perfectly, but so. What was he doing for work?

He insurance, you know, insurance is a business he was in. He spoke English perfectly, so he got picked up by some agency, but, you know, just making. Yeah. We were living in. Tough market. Yeah.

and living in LA County and a little two-room apartment and then my dad and his new wife were doing all that. And then so I went to community culture. We're still on visas. I mean, I'm not a U.S. citizen. I'm not even a resident. You know, I mean, I'm on student visa and going through all that. And so I didn't have the options, you know,

because when I was in high school, you know, one of my friends was going into the Marines and I was like, I'll start y' eye because like, I wish I could just walk into a recruiter's office. But the first thing I'm going to ask is you're a resident or you're, you know, you're on a vision. Sorry, you know. What did you have to do to get your citizenship? Well, you know, you first you have to be a resident.

You know, you have to go through the whole process and you have to be here and umpting, you know, I think at the time you have to be here so many different years. And then, you know, student visa. And there was a whole process. And my dad really was more in charge of that. And my dad, oh, my dad's like Gandhi meets freaking Santa Claus, you know. He's like, he's a, you know, he's a spiritual guy. He's a preacher. You know, and he administers to the terminal yield, and he does a lot of funerals for, for military people, and he's done it for, you know, the Navy down in California.

And he's pretty old now, but he still does. You know, my dad's pushing 85, and he still does him. But so he didn't want me to do this stuff. I mean, he was just like, just no way. So for him, he was dragging his feet a little bit to make sure you couldn't. You know, you know, he misinformed me, and he took advantage of that. Misinformed. Yeah.

He would tell me, no, that's not what he says. or he would do it on. And then, of course, you know, you're going to grow up. Yeah. And you pretty much you realize, you realize that your dad's like, I'm telling you something that's not. So, and, you know, and then he would just like, so one thing led to another.

And then, you know, I went back to Utah. I went back to school in Utah and met my ex-wife. And, you know, I was going to college. And my dad just wanted me to finish college, finish college. And so I got to. I was going to BYU and the government recruits heavily out of there, in particular all the agencies, you know, they have booths there, you know. I mean, the CIA has and the FBI at the time.

I didn't know that. Yeah, they recruit heavily because, you know, most of it. I have zero days in college. I have zero minutes in college, so. Because they speak foreign languages, you know. A lot of the more than foreign missions, you know, so and they spoke at the time. And again, you know, I'm dating myself here, but they still do. But back at that time, they spoke foreign languages.

They have college degrees, you know, for all intents of purposes, you know, they're going to pass the, you know, polygraph exams and all that. So there was heavy recruitment there. And so, you know, they had the booths there, and I was gravitating always to the Marine booth. So I would go there and, you know, pick up the little pamphlet and all that and got to talk to the recruiters and all that, you know. And then my dad would tell me later on, you know, they're going to lie to you. They're going to tell you, they're going to do this. And you're going to end up being a cook or you're going to end up being this.

That part's pretty accurate. That's relatively accurate. So, you know, so it's like, I listened to my dad, but I wasn't going to argue with my dad. I was just like, okay, you know, I'm just going to wait my time. And I'm just, you know, I have to, you know, get my residency. And then I get my citizenship. So I got married and was, you know, finishing school. And I was interested.

And I was working at the campus police. And I had a friend whose dad, I was a retired FBI agent. So that kind of planted a seat a little bit. I talked to him a little bit. And then I was kind of interesting that, but I still wanted to do the Marine thing. But, you know, until the recruiter had told me about OCS and this and that. But, hey, you know, but, you know, if you get your residency, then we'll just have you go the enlisted route. And then we'll have you do this and that.

And now I was getting pretty smart at the time now. So I'm thinking, you know, this, I don't know. I think I'm getting fed something here. You're being told what you want to hear is how that can be described. Yeah. So, but I still didn't have what, what. they need it, you know, and then, and then so I finally, you know, I mean, fast forward, I graduated and I was already married and to have my first son. So, and, you know, I studied business

because I figured, you know, I mean, I've been freaking trying to make a living forever and entrepreneurial things attracted me because there's some risk involved, you know, and I mean, there's always risk and I was risk, and he wasn't going to pacify the need for me to do what I did as an FBI agent or military or whatever, but it was as close it could get. So I studied finance and accounting and all that. And so I thought, well, and then with a new wife, my son, I thought, but he just, I still couldn't placate it and I would talk to her about it and, you know, and I took a job in Vegas as an accountant for a subsidiary of Circus, and that lasted a month.

I mean, I just thought, Jesus Christ, I can't do this. It's measurable. Oh my God, I'm just gonna, I mean, there's no way. I like the knowledge of the business, but I just couldn't do this stuff. And so I was starting to apply for other positions, just to see what I would get, but I wasn't satisfied and I was releasing happy, I wasn't happy with it.

And so one day I sat down and I just put a list together and I thought, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna walk in to every, branch of government, you know, military agencies, and I'm just going to tell them, hey, this is who I am. I got a college degree. I speak Spanish perfectly. This is my background. I know this.

I know that. There's got to be something that I can do when you're right. So I put a list together. And I was in between jobs. And so I started with, you know, I thought, well, I'm just going to go for the best, the best. You know, I'm just going to apply for the Navy. and if he's I'm going to try to do what you did I'm going to try the Marines I'm going to try and so the first one on the list was the FBI so that's what I did and I so I yeah so I

that's how you do that well I had the list yeah so I had the list I was the first one so I went to the federal building in Las Vegas and I walked in and I remember meeting the guy and I was really impressed he was pretty buffed in a suit and I had seen I've seen a couple of James Maugh movies, but he didn't look at James Bond. I mean, he looked like a pit bull kind of with it. His hair really in place and all that, nice guy. And then he pulls me in a room and then he sits there until he figures out I'm going to threat. It puts me in another room and then brings me to another room.

And then we start really actually talking about it and he kind of figures out, you know, he gives me application. And he, I mean, he actually, you know, I have to tell you this, fast forward. Everything he told me as a recruiter was true. That's good to hear. Everything. Everything he told me was absolutely on the money. He never told me something that wasn't. But he did tell me flat out, you know, it's very difficult to get in.

So on the one hand, he's recruiting the hell out of me. But telling you the truth, though. On the other hand, he's telling me flat out the chances that I'll get in are Nielton. And he's not hard up for recruits. What year was this? Ninety-six. Yeah. That makes sense.

you know, he says, at any given time, you know, and I didn't know the numbers of people that had applied, but I found out later, I mean, they had like 100,000 applications, you know, so, but, so I listened to what he had to say and took some preliminary tests he gave me, and he was giving me the smell test and all that. And as I was leaving, of course, you know, I had my list, so I'm coming here, I'm going to do the same thing, I'm going to go everywhere. And as I'm walking out, there's a job board and there's jobs, you know, there's like, and there's other offices in there for other agencies.

So, but he really wanted me. I spoke Spanish perfectly. The war on drugs was getting on. The FBI had gotten concurrent jurisdiction with DEA, Title 21. So the FBI could work just exactly at DEA, same jurisdiction. And so they were looking for Spanish speakers. They were looking to change the face of, you know, to be able to fight what's the same. happening you got to bring in other people because you just can't you can't go after the enemy unless

you have people that can they can do that and and uh and so as i'm walking out as i look at at ff and he goes you don't want to go with them like that you don't want to go with them it's like you know alcohol everybody drinks you know you know tobacco everybody smokes and then firearms i mean you know and besides that gs7 oh that's pretty low on the damn pay scale at the time and so i don't with GSK I don't know anything but he just says it to me like I know what GS7 is I'm like okay and then I'm looking at the other one and I'm standing there because I had already left so he's just standing next to me and he goes uh you don't want to go with them DEA you don't want to go with them and so you'd be working the same thing every single day every day till like house come home and then

and the CIA he goes you don't want to work with them we'll never know who your friends are I mean he told me that and that stayed with me you never know you but you work with us, he told me, and you will work everything. We have everything. You name it. We work it. We're counterintelligence. We're organized crime, drugs, money laundering, gangs, white color, this, that, everything.

And it was true. He was right. And so, otherwise, you get tracked in one thing, and then that's all you're going to do. You're going to have Cheerios for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. So, but I walked out. How long until you heard back? No. The process took two years.

Oh, shit. Well, it gets better because, I mean, I thought, okay, well, the process took me two years to get in. So, I mean, I still got to pay the bills. I got to get, you know, so he's like, oh, you know, so I started the battery of tests and you're doing really good. You're doing really well. But in the process, I landed another job and a really good one with a major department store. And so they took a chance on me. And so one of the regional precedents of the company, you know, hired me.

And I got my real estate license and I had a little vending company. And then I was entrepreneurial. Yeah. And the entrepreneurial aspect of it was bringing the bacon home. Really good. And I loved it. And I didn't really want to work for anybody, but I had put in an application with the dealers department stores.

And dealers at the time was pretty big. They had like 280 stores nationwide. And they had a major store there in Las Vegas. And that, but I never, you know, I never thought they'd call me back or that, but they did. And so, and they flew me to Finings. And so I interviewed with the, with the regional press. of, and then I, in those days, there's no computers, there's no nothing.

So if you're going to find out something about something, you've got to go to the library. So I went in the library, got a prospectus on dealers and did the homework. And, you know, I had a degree in business and finance. So basically I do a little asset test ratio and kind of figure out all this stuff. So I understand what I'm talking about. And so I get interviewed by them and they flew me out first time I ever had Thai food. And so we're sitting down. He's asking me, you know, say, hey, kid, so what do you know about, what do you know about dealers?

So I tell them and say, well, you know, I know the stores are doing to want to, you know, 26,000 square feet. You got Humpting employees, blah, blah, blah. Last year you guys did 26 million, this and that. He was pretty impressed that I knew that, you know, and you can't Google, but now you can Google all that stuff. But it's like, how in the hell did he find that out? Well, it's like, anyway, he took a chance on me. He first offered me like the track, they have like a buyer track where you become a buyer and then you do this and that. And then I was like, I wasn't too excited about it. And I'm probably showing it too. I was trying to hide it, but I was probably showing it. So, you know, physically.

You know, it's like, well, so how much is it pay, you know? I mean, at the time it was $27,000 a year. So that was competitive. Yeah, that was competitive in the 80s. So, but I didn't want to do that. I don't want to be somebody's monkey. So, and I was already happy. And I said, you know, I've done well for myself, you know, you know, I got a real estate

license. I got to do this, you know, I'm going to start a bunch of laundromats because I knew laundromats made money if you put them next to a school, you know. And so, and I was, you know, and I had, was consulting on a guy that had a really gas station, he was freaking driving into the ground and I helped them. And then so there was all these things that I was doing and I thought, and so he just sat there pensive. And then the other guy was like, I think he was the junior vice president or something and he

just basically took a chance to say, okay, kid, listen, I'm going to take a chance to you. He did. He took a chance. And he brought me in as assistant general manager. I never worked retail in my life. and put me in the store in Las Vegas. So now here's the store that has three floors, that's a restaurant. I mean, all these freaking people have worked.

I mean, this is like, you know, they work their lives, you know, to work into. And all of a sudden I'm going to come in, I don't know where. I'm going to be the assistant general manager. And so, I mean, I could get fire really fast, you know. And the manager, the general manager was this lady, you know, she's like, I saw the devil worst brought on. I was like, that's the freaking lady right there. I mean, yeah, she was just like that.

And then, you know, it's a business that's mostly women and it's fashion-oriented and tension to detail. I didn't know shit about freaking fashion. I didn't know any of that stuff. That's not true, sir. Look at your jacket. Yeah, well, it's a fashion piece. Yeah, that's now, now.

But, you know, at the time, I didn't know anything. I mean, I really didn't know anything about anything. I mean, I'm just, and so, and then also to be in that position. So in the meantime, I'm still pursuing the FBI. And I'm still, I'm starting to not lose it yet, you know, because it's months and months and months. And, you know, so I'm talking, I'll call him Don. And so Don, he would call me up, hey, Tony. And then so I didn't go to the other places because I thought I just landed this job.

It's making really good money. Let's see how far this goes. You know, I'm already getting a little bit older, and I'm excited about it because it's entrepreneurial. And I'm like, and now I've got to prove myself, you know, and I have some latitude to do shit, you know. So I assign myself to the floor. I sign myself to the doc, you know. I show up at the dock and the dock managers.

Hey kid, get over here, get your fucking ass over here. I had no idea. I was a freaking assistant job manager. You know, I'm there just, I want to see how are they doing it? What are they doing? How can I run the store if I don't really know how they do. How the store runs. I don't know.

So I assigned myself different places and I was having fun. And he kind of for a little while was placating, you know, the devil and, you know, the wolf in me, you know. And in the meantime, I'm talking to Dawn. That's not his name. But, and he goes, oh, you're doing really good. And so one day, you know, he calls me, you know, he says, hey, you're doing great. We're right there. You know, and at this point, I'm sitting in my office.

I don't remember talking to him and listening to him thinking to myself, well, guess what the pay was, $27,000 a year. That's what it was. And by the way, it was GS-10. So the FBI started at GS-10. Everybody else was GS-7. That's why he kept on telling me that. GS-7, GS-7, DA-S-7. That's a huge jump, though.

You know, CIA, GS-G-S-7, D-E-A-F-G-S-7, ATF, G-S-7. But we're GS-10, and why do you think that is? You know, I remember that wasn't one of the selling points. And, of course, I had to look up with GA. Yeah. But that's a huge jump in pay because I don't know the easiest way to describe this. Government service, GS, but 7, 8, 9, 10, there's steps along the way. It's GS7, step 1, step 2, step 3.

I don't even know how far they go. Yeah, yeah. But you've got to get through all the 7s before you hit 8, and all the 8s before you hit 9. And you started your right of GS-10. So I thought, you know, that was a selling point. point. So I'm sitting in my office and I'm thinking of myself, I was like, and I told him. I said, Don, I don't know. You know, I don't know about this.

Two years in. I mean, is this really going to happen? Oh, no, you got to hang in there with me. You got to hang in there with me. And so, and I said, okay, well, so what's left? He says, well, you know, we got to talk to your employers. So I'm like, well, I'm like, I don't think so. And I said, Don, you're going to call my employers. There's no guarantee I'm going to get the job to tell them that you're applying elsewhere. I applied the FBI, and then now they're going to know I'm applying somewhere.

So now, and then if you decide that you're not going to give me my appointment. I look like an asshole. Then, yeah. Then now they know. And he's like, he had no answer for me. I mean, he's like, you know, he's on the phone. He's like, well, you know, but hey, Tony, but you just got to get a guy. He's a recruiter.

You know, recruiter is a recruiter. He told me the truth, but he was a recruiter. You know, it's like, no, you just got to. So I said, okay, well, you know what? You know, I got to tell him. I got to be the one to tell him. So let me tell him, you know, when I, next opportunity. I had. So I did, you know. So we had an opportunity to talk. Hey, I got good news. You know,

stores doing really great, blah, blah, blah, you know, and it was true. Neiman Marcus had tried to recruit me in Saccharveh Avenue. I tried to recruit me to run a store in New York. But my heart wasn't in it. You know, my heart was not in that. I just knew that if I did 20, 30 years, I was going to be one person that was not satisfied with himself. I, yeah. But I would have done a good job but and so I told them I said uh you know I got good news blah blah but I'm leaving so he's like what what do you mean you're leaving you know he's from New York you know it's like uh yeah well I'm leaving are they trying to recruit you you know you're mentioning the stores you know and I said yeah yeah they have oh we'll double it will you whatever you know we need to keep you know

you're Tony you know you're doing and I said no actually you know it's like I I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna become an FBI agent busted out laughing I mean laughing he must have lost it freaking and laughing. I mean, I just could hear him laughing his ass off. He stopped, and then he, and so, no, seriously, he kept him laughing. And then finally he just dawned on him that I was telling him, no, seriously. So finally he just sunk in. They're like, really?

Like, like, you're going to carry a gun and stuff like that? I mean, like, FBI, yeah, yeah. I'm just like, I guess that's what you do. I mean, I don't know. You know, that's, yeah. So I just want to let you know because they're going to contact you. They're going to call you. You're the last call.

So, you know, he was a good guy. you know, he, he wished me well. He said, you know, you have a really good career. You know, I want you to stay in touch with us, blah, blah, blah. No, you know, so they called him and then, and then that was it, you know. That was what was proud. I was really happy I was gone, you know, give me a party. And then next thing I knew, I had one more thing.

So fucking don't. Okay, Tony, so we got one more thing. And I'm like, one more thing. What do you mean? He says, we got to give you the fit test again. So I already had passed it. Is this like an aptitude test? No, no, the fit test.

Oh, fitness test. The fitness test. So I had taken it. I had taken it again. I had taken it on my own, but I had taken it. I remember I had taken it. You know, it's been freaking 30, freaking three years, but I know I had taken it. We got to give it to you again.

So I was okay with it because I was in really good shape and all that. But so okay, so we set the day and everything. Well, it just turns out that I get the flu for my son. I have the freaking flu full on. I'm sick and I'm getting sicker and sicker and sicker. And the day is coming where I have to take the fit test. And so if I take the fit test and I don't pass the fucking test, I'm not getting in. I just get my notice.

I'm going to leave my job. So I'm not going to be out of a freaking job. And the government was like, hey, sorry, dude. You know, wish I could help you, but I can't. Better luck next time. Yeah. And he's not going to cut me any slack as much he lacks me. So I was sick as a dog.

And then there was a drink at the time called Exceed. And I just took a pop pills. I did whatever. And so what would have been, you know, it's just a fit test. turned into like a freaking grueling, like grueling challenge. Because I was so freaking sick and I thought, I'm going to do this shit. And then I'm, I don't care if I fucking die and my heart drops out and I just drop fucking dead. I am going to pass this motherfucking test.

And I was so sick. And I was trying to keep a straight face. So I figured that if I looked like I'm happy, whatever, I didn't want to damage or hurt any chance whatsoever for him to read something in me. that would keep me from getting my appointment because he was coming with it, right? So I took it and, you know, and I passed. And, you know, towards the end, he's just, like, talking and everything. And I just, man, he just couldn't wait for him to leave if I could throw up. And he did.

He's finally finished and I thought he was talking for, he's just 30 seconds, but I just, as soon as you freaking walk, I just never, I didn't even make it to my car. I was on my knees just throwing up, you know. And so got home and passed out. Give me my tickets, my thing. You know, you get to the airport and, you know. What does the pipeline look once you get selected to become an agent? I'm assuming there's, I know it's Quantico, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Quantico, Virginia. Is that the Fletsey, the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center? No, no, it's Quantico. Quantico is where the FBI has been. The Academy. Yeah, the Academy. FBI is in smack in the middle of Quantico. And the thing, the FBI has an affinity with the Marines that is really gnarly.

Okay, and it's funny because I wanted to be in. So when I get there, I find out everybody. I mean, I'm one of a handful of guys that weren't military. But my, so when I get there, you know, I know it's in Quantical. I'm doing the homework. And, you know, in those days, really there's nothing. I mean, Annie, sounds bizarre, but there's no computers. There's no nothing.

You've got to get everything at the library or a movie. So I'm trying to. Or shitty word of mouth, third, fourth, fifth hand. Exactly. So I'm watching movies. I'm trying to get like Don Whitehead's the FBI. I'm reading the books that I can. Go to the library, try to find out.

You know, it's not like you can Google shit now. You just Google it. Yeah. And so, I mean, I'm watching. And at the time, it was Mississippi Burning, you know, that came out. So I watched that movie, and I watched this movie. And then Donnie Brascoe with Joe Pistone was an agent that worked in the mafia. And he had been actually Naval Intelligence.

So he was in the Navy. He was Naval Intelligence. He had been before he became an FBI agent. And so the longest time anybody had been on the cover. I ended up meeting him and everything, and we kind of ran cross paths in our careers. But so that book had come out, you know, now. And so I read it.

And I read the book, and I went, holy shit, this dude has got some big cahones. I mean, it's like you just couldn't put it down. You were like, what the fuck? But I saw the movie with Johnny Deppin felt the same way. I mean, it was like gnarly, you know. And so those are the realities that I had to sink in. And I remember my dad. Well, see, what happened is my ex.

wife didn't think I was going to get in because the chances that I'd get in were nil to nut. I mean, when I had talked to Don at the time and I told him and he told me, hey, we were almost close and everything. He just told me, he had told me. And that's one of the reasons that I thought, I'm not, I don't know if I'm going to go through this whole thing. He said, yeah, you're up again, blah, blah, blah, blah, some e thousand. So when he said thousands and I was like, well, how many people are in the class and I'm in

for, 47? I'm like, fuck, I'm never going to get in. So that was part of one of the reasons that I thought, you know what? I got to kiss this shit goodbye. I got to get used to the idea that I may not get in. And I'm happy with I'm at right now. I'm still young enough that if I don't like this shit, then I can just walk into, and I'm still in good shape,

I'll figure something else out. So my ex-wife was smart because I think that she kind of just let him burn out. I mean, let him go through this whole thing. Instead of fighting me, you know, she's like, you know. And I think my dad did the same thing because they figured, well, he's not going to get in. So just, you know, why, like, ran on his parade and then be on his bad side? Just let it work out the way it's normal way to.

Let it work its way out. And then, you know, he doesn't get in. He wasn't us. It told him, you know, not to pursue it, you know. So when it did happen, I remember my dad sitting down with him and looking at me like really concerned, you know, very concerned, you know, son, I'm really worried about this. And I go, you know, so I'm just making up shit. I go, dad, you don't worry about him.

You know, farmers get killed more often than frigging, I mean, salesman. He goes, I'd rather you be a farmer, you know. So I'm like, dad, don't worry about dad. I mean, you know, just whatever. So my dad, you know, he got over it. You know, he got over the whole thing. And, you know, and, you know, I went on. But when I got to, when I got to Quantico,

I was reading all this different things on the FBI. And then so the reality of it was sinking in. I mean, I knew that it could be dangerous, you know? I mean, it really could be dangerous. And so when I got there, right before, Actually, when I had applied, there was a shootout in Miami. It was a gnarly shootout. Okay.

And it was a couple of former military guys that went rogue. And shootout shot it out with FBI agents. We were all former military SWAT guys and most of them. And they were robbing banks. Oh, really? Yeah. So these two guys, one of them was SF, Special Forces guy, and the other guy was a former Marine.

I don't know if he was MP or what. And they were robbing banks. But I mean, just old-fashioned. They shoot it way in and shoot their way out. If I'm being totally honest, we used to sit around in the team room and talk about how we would rob banks. I'm not joking. Yeah. Well, this guys did it.

These guys were doing it. That's the step we didn't take. We were just working on our tactical planning. There's an exercise, if you will, Tony. This guys were doing it. So they were doing it. These two guys were doing it. And they would just, they wreak havoc in Miami at the time.

And then, you know, this is a time where the, war and drugs, you know, Scarface had come out. I mean, there was just full-on Colombian cartels, and, you know, it was just, and so the Miami squads, and he responded to it, and it was just, and it's in the book, and I wrote a chapter, and there's more stories about that. So they got into this gnarly shootout, but at the time, most departments were carrying six shooters. Wheel guns.

Mm-hmm. And very few, unless you were in a tactical unit. or SWAT had, you know, you had automatic weapons, you know, pistols or... Yeah. And MP5s or shotguns. And so this guys were freaking, you know, had M-4s and, you know, and they, you know, so they had heavy weapons and they were tactically trained. And the guys, FBI agents were too.

So they got in this gigantic freaking shootout. Like in downtown? Well, in the neighborhood in Miami. They followed them. But they had killed several people. So they robbed the banks and they would steal the cars, kill people at the time. I mean, they were shooting out and arranged. take their car. They shot a guy that was out, target shooting, shot him in the head.

Oh, wow. Took his freaking gun, took his car. And these guys were just stone cold. And so they did it and got away with him, got away and got away with it. So there's two FBI squads were, and this is during the time that I had applied. So this came out. And he actually happened on my birthday. It happened on my birthday in 1986. So I remembered it. And it was news all over the country. So the agents were also former military and former Marines. So he's like former military against former military. That's rough.

Okay. They were outgunned and people didn't understand why it is, but it was the caliber. They were shooting high caliber weapons and these guys were six shooters, shotguns, and some of them had MP5s. MP5 still a pistol caliber round. Yeah, exactly. And so anyway, the whole thing ended and the last two, three guys standing. A lot of FBI agents died. The bad guys were getting into an FBI car to get away.

And they were riddled bullets. I mean, it was, you know, and so Ed Morellas, who was shot in the arm. He was former Marine, too. And so he got his shotgun. And anyway, he made his way up to the car. And then they were bleeding. I mean, they were just, you're about to freaking one second away from fucking passing out and never seen the light of day ever again and shot him both, point blank, and killed him.

And at that point, he was just like he knew he was going to die. all the way up to that point, he knew he was gonna, that's it, for your motherfuckers, I'm gonna take you out, and that's why his attitude was like, you know, he's gonna try to stay in his body as long as he can to take him out, and he did. Well, you know, he's recovering from his wounds and everything, he gets sent to the academy,

and boom, he's my sergeant major. Shit. Fast forward to when I get in. So, yeah, he's the first guy that I look up. And so, of course, I know the stories, everybody knows the stories, we're all in the class and fucking guys talking, and we already know. You know, his arm was all messed up,

and he was still recovering from his wounds, but now he's been sent to train us, you know. So I had a good fortune to have him as my staff counselor and other guys who were all, a lot of these guys had the Vietnam-era guys, you know, who would. So, and then, you know, my PT instructor, it was a captain in the Marines in Vietnam, and he was a gnarly dude.

I mean, we used to think, like, this freaking guy's almost 50. I mean, he just like, he acted like he was 25, right? ran backwards forwards, you know. Old man's strength. Yeah. Incredible. I mean, he was incredible.

But so once you get there, it was 16 weeks for us, but it's actually 20 weeks now. And actually, you got some extra training, which is like the drive, you know, evasive driving with cars and this and that. So those are the extra weeks. But the weeks that I did at the academy were 16 weeks. Do you come out of there a sworn agent or you still have to hit Fletcy? No, no. Okay. There's no flexi for us.

I mean, at least when I'm. I went through. It was FBI Academy. It was just the FBI Academy. Shooting, ranges, academics, you know, Hogan's Alley. And Hogan's Alley was just a town. It's basically Hogan. Mock Town. Yeah, mock town. And, you know, it has rooms, hotel rooms, everything. I mean, you walk in and you think really you're like in the Truman Show, basically. And all the actors are paid, but they're not actors. And if you walk in there, you got to be ready because you could get jacked really fast. And you have to literally, there's a warning at the time. You know, I'm in there for a long time.

But when I came through, there was a warning sign to say, you moment you walk into this town, you are by, I mean, you are, you get jacked. It's game on. Game on, because you're walking into like live scenarios. The EA is doing some, we are doing them. I mean, the bank there gets robbed more times than any other bank in the entire country. Multiple times a day. It's crazy.

You have terrorists. You have, I mean, the whole entire place is just freaking, you know, a cesspool of freaking criminals. And then some of the actors were really freaking criminals who got hired, you know? I mean, you have bikers, you had this and that. So they just tell you flat out. You know, you may lose the tooth.

You may just get your ass kicked or, you know, the bullets are fake, but the adrenaline is real, you know. And you just rather make a mistake there than in real life because you, you know. So I had really the good fortune to have Ed Morales as my staff counselor because, you know, you're looking at this dude, and he's laughing. He has his green. And the other two guys were also former Marines. You know, and they're all like, you guys have no fucking idea what you're getting into.

And then our PT instructor, he says, like, I'm sure you did something really fucking good to be here. But I'm the keeper of the flame, and I'm going to make sure you do not get your credentials. I mean, so there were former Marines in my class who had shit. They had experience like you. I'm just a freaking, I just come from retail. These guys, freaking, you know, have been through book camps or officers or enlisted men. And then, of course, there was an affinity right there. But he was fair.

I have to say, they were freaking fair with everybody. And I felt like it was awesome. I mean, he was, and obviously you have these experiences, and you had Army guys, and then you have doctors and lawyers and, you know, accountants and people from walks of life. And there were other guys who just graduated from college. You had a lot of degree. He had all these degrees, but you never shot a freaking gun. So, once you got there, it was like, I remember,

and he passed away, Captain Rogers, but he was an agent, but we call him Captain, because he was Captain, and he's like, you will run everywhere. And when you're outside, and you will not take the elevators. And I don't care what the other freaking instructor's doing because we compete with the other class. And I want my class to do this and that. So I remember a couple of the Marine guys was,

wow, fucking back and back. boot camp again. For sure. You know? And so, but it was like a different kind of, of, the academics were tough. Is it mostly law-based understanding? Well, it was everything. It was like, you know, you had to, you know, from investigations to forensics to all the different stuff. And I remember at the time we were allowed like an 85, 85 score. So you could not get anything lower than 90 to 100. 90 is a C student. 95 is a B student. 100, you're an A student. If you get 85, you only allowed one at the time.

I don't know what is now, you know. And so if you get that, you're done. You're out. If you get another 85, you're done. So some people watch that. I don't know how many watch that on my class. But so I remember being thinking to myself, shit, you know, you got a wife at home, I got a kid, I got to make it through this freaking thing.

I got guys to have your background or other military background. they've been through bookcams. So to them, you know, you can see in their face, I'm going to fucking make it through this thing. And for me was, I'm like, there's no fucking way I'm leaving here. I will drop dead. I don't care.

I'm not leaving here without my credentials. I'm not. That's the attitude you have to have from this type of environments. You know. How much say did you have in the type of work that you would do right after the academy? Or do they kind of, I mean, I don't know a lot about the FBI, but I'm going to assume that there are a variety of jobs.

Did you get to pick, or was it the needs of the FBI? It was always the needs of the FBI, but also they match you really well. Okay. So, you know, like, for example, somebody like you would go into the, you know, I came from white collar. I mean, I had a degree in business and accounting and finance. And then so I, you know, they put me in that track. I'll tell you what happened. So.

Okay. So they put me in. that track because I don't come from the military. I don't forget. I don't have a military background. And I'm sitting next to guys a freaking former range. They've already done 10 years in. One guy was a freaking gnarly enlisted guy and this and that. And so, and there were former CIA guys who switch agencies. I talked to them and was like, oh, shit, I was sending in this country, ready to pop the pill. These guys have been through all these things. I mean, I'm just a newbie, really, but we're all in the same thing. Yeah. And so there's different tracks. And, and,

you all get trained the same and the training was unbelievable it was amazing it was freaking amazing it was like day in and day out and day out and day out and day out so you're going to qualify with the weapons you're giving you know 870 you know the ramington yeah all the stuff they you know six shooters at the time because i got issued a six shooter when i left i had a you know in hindsight how fucking crazy is that it is fucking crazy oh holy shit yeah yeah yeah smith and west and yeah yeah I mean, don't get me wrong, they're great guns. Not for that job. Yeah, speed loader.

I mean, you're out of the range and you have to, like, speed loader. And the guy's yelling at you, with the speed loader, you take the speed loader out and put it in. I used to think to myself, even then, I thought, fuck, I mean, they had that shoot out in Miami. Yeah. I mean, here's one of my instructors who got freaking shot with a mini-14, you know? And we're six shooters, you know, and it's, but still, you know, they'll count bullets, one, two, three, four, five, six, boom. The guy's done. He's probably reloading.

coming up and I'm going to shoot your ass, right? But it was good training. And in fact, so they had different tracks, and you don't know really where you're going to end up yet, okay? But you can pretty much suspect where you're going to. And then they assign you to wherever you're going to go. You know, you don't have really a say. You have three offices you could choose from,

but ultimately the Bureau decides where they're going to send you. So, you know, I got sent to Phoenix, Arizona. And I think a lot of it was because there's the border, drugs, You know, I speak Spanish perfectly. And, you know, they're smart about how they're going to do it. They're never going to send you where you're from. It makes sense, actually. You know, it just doesn't make any sense, yeah.

And so it was actually a good office because even though they give you a cola or an adjustment for money, I mean, if you ended up in like a big office, you're still not making that much more. And those guys are just not making a lot of money, even back then. So, you know, the offices that you get sent to, some guy got sent to Alaska. He was a pilot in the Air Force. So he was flying a pontoon plane. And I remember... That can be pretty sweet.

Yeah, but, you know, there weren't that many girls up there. He was single. And he just got sent to like a two-man-r-r-a, you know, like where you have a couple agents. Yeah. I think that's where they have up here. I think there's a small FBI presence up here. Yeah. But Montana was one of the places that they had an office at.

But Montana with an E? But... Yeah, that's so funny. That was an office out of Salt Lake City at the time. So you know, so when you, you didn't know where you were going to go. So you go through the training and, you know, it's just, it's a book camp of sorts, you know, it's just like any other. You know, we did the Yellow Brick Road, which is one of the challenged drills that you do there in Quantico,

and then we have access to all the Quantico stuff and then, you know, interact with a lot of the Marine. And then obviously you have your instructors or FBI agents for former Marines. So, and they would tell you right flat out. I mean, they would freaking scream and yell at you and then, you know, and you just get used to it. You know, I mean, and of course, I don't come from that world. And I'm not even, I mean, I haven't even watched any movies. I don't know what to expect, you know. So, but I, it was okay.

I grew up in Venezuela. I got yelled at my mom every single day. The only tools I had, I didn't have military, but I know how to survive on the street. I know fucking danger when I see it. That might be more valuable than most military experience. street smarts and book smarts are very very different things and you can go to a lot of military schools if you can't read the terrain around you all that knowledge isn't going to do you that much you know and i think that that's one of the reasons that i was able to to switch tracks really

because you know i i looked at guys like you had a couple of my friends you know who had serious backgrounds and i was like fuck man i wish up and they're like fuck and dude just you know there's schools they can send you to you can go to it in-services, you know, you can get your bosses to send you to an in-service, and another in-service, and then you can just, like, make up for what you lacked. And I did. I mean, my bosses sent me to a lot of different schools to catch up, you know, because it was Swiss cheese, you know, on my training, you know, and so, but I, yeah, I looked the guys like you, and I'm like, mom, and I really, honestly, I mean, if they only thought what I thought in my head, I thought,

these motherfuckers are bad motherfuckers, I got to keep up many, they weren't incentive for me. I mean, there was one guy. Dude, I don't know how this guy ran. He was a former CIA guy who switched. And there was like a couple classes going on at the same time. And then I found out later on, you know, and I wasn't really friends with him. I mean, we knew each other and we talked and stuff. But I knew that he had switched.

And I think what stuck in my head was done, what with Donald says, yeah, you never know who your friends are. But with us, and he's true. It was very true. I mean, at the time, I don't know about now. I can't talk about, you know, like you can't talk. I mean, maybe you can about your experiences and what is like in the Navy and the Navy Seals. But at the time and all the way up to a certain point,

I felt that. I really did. I felt like, you know, and then there's times there that you don't, you know. But this guy, man, I mean, he was like, fuck. He just can run and run and run. And he's like, what is this guy made out of? You know, and he's like, oh, yeah, he's been here

and he was there and he's done this. And I'm like, oh, shit. Oh, no wonder. So, you know. So how long did you serve with the Bureau? Almost 20 years. I was looking over your resume overview. You hit quite a few different positions.

Yeah. Where did it start and where did it go throughout the course of your career? Yeah. So when I left the academy, I got to Phoenix, and they assigned me to a white-collar crime squad. So I was fine with it. You know, it was white-collar. Was that like financial crimes? Yeah, financial crimes.

You know, and I had that background. People putting a one where there should be a two? That's right. Or maybe using the eraser. This guys were amazing. Oh, I bet. Like the forensic on the back end side of this stuff? Oh, my God.

Andy, they were amazing. They were brilliant. And I thought I was the incredibly shrinking person. In fact, I was the incredibly shrinking person at the academy because when we were at the academy and Ed had everybody stand up, tell us a little bit about your background. So you fucking stand up. And by the time they got to me, I'm just here, you know?

I mean, what the fuck? I mean, this guy, oh, yeah, I was a fighter pilot, blah, blah, blah. I was in the Marine. Dude, I just grew up in Venezuela, and I just freaking, I'm happy to be here. I almost got killed by a couple of gangmangers, but I made it, you know, but anyway, so when I get to Phoenix, you know,

I get my orders and all that. So I'm happy with Phoenix because I'm in Vegas, so that's not too far from my ex-wife and their family, blah, blah, blah, all that. So, and then I get assigned to White Color Crom Squad, and so they're working frauds and, you know, fraud and all this other stuff. But you get, you're an agent on probation for two years at the time. Again, I'm just talking from the period of time I was in. So it was really good because they would have you take, you know, you get assigned to different things.

You got to check, check off this book for two years. You do anything wrong that they deem to be like really bad during that two-year period when I was in. You're gone. Done. It's over. That's a good amount of time for probation. Two years. Two years.

You're not, you're an agent, but you're not really an agent. So it's like, well, the one more thing. And then there was one more thing. It's like, holy fucking shit. When are you really truly an agent? You're an agent at the time that I came in, two years after your probation. So your own probation for two-year period. So you get the book.

And then in the book, there's things you have to do. You have to check this. And so there's a bank robbery squad. So bank robberies were huge back then. I mean, now nobody brought banks. But in those days, it was bank robberies. So bank robbery, violent crime squad, the, you know, this squad, all, you know, and then there's a white collar.

So because I wasn't a white collar, I needed to check off things in the other squads. So I had an opportunity. So you talk to guys or it's up to you to do it. You know, so you develop a report with, hey, you know, I need to check off my book. And then you have a training agent that you get assigned. And so the training agent is just walking you through and make sure, let me see your book, you know. Making sure you're staying up on the task. Yeah.

And then, you know, you fuck up then and you're done. You know, you're gone. So I did my thing. But I just thought, man. I really admire them. Don't get me wrong. That was not the track I want to be. Yeah.

I didn't want to be back. It just wasn't for you. Yeah. It wasn't for me. So, and I also knew that, I mean, these guys were so smart. I mean, they had master's degrees in freaking accounting and like literally like a freaking this is, I went to my academy class, the guy that took the Wolf of Wall Street down. Oh, really?

My classmate sat next to me took the Enron Corporation down. Oh, shit. Okay. So they knew what they were doing. I mean, so he's one of my best friends. you know and he you know and he brilliant I mean brilliant freaking mind you know and these other guys so when I get in the white-collar cram squad I mean really I'm just you know I'm just gonna be carrying people's bags because I got a degree I got a

bachelor's degree in you know finance and accounting but there's no way I can touch these guys yeah for sure and they love that by the way I mean they love sitting there and going through the numbers to me would put me to sleep and I would go to interviews of this freaking white-collar guys and I I remember a couple times I was falling asleep. I was sitting there going like, fuck, I'm going to fall asleep. And I would pinch my leg to stay awake. I was like, pinching my leg.

I'm like, holy shit, I'm just going to fall asleep. And then I would talk to a couple of the guys. And then I thought, you know what, I'm going to quit. I'm going to leave. And I didn't say anything to my ex-wife at the time. But I said, I'm going to go with the EEA. I'm going to just finish my probation and everything, and I'm going to leave. So the wife of the supervisor of another squad, he was a drug, organized crime,

drugs, there's a freaking high action squad. His wife was my partner agent. So I, you know, we start commiserating a little bit and she was really nice to me and everything and she was helping me. She'd been around, but she was a white-collar agent. She was happy being a white-collar agent. And I think she might have talked to him. He was a Marine. He fought in Vietnam, you know, and he was a gnarly dude. He was in the first HR team and super freaking buffed guys. and he just freaking intense as hell and everybody was fucking sketchillism. And he ran that other squad.

And so they invited me to their house one time for a party or whatever. And just to get together with the agents and everything. And I took my wife and my kids. And then we got to talking and his name was Tony too. So he goes, Tony. Man.

So we talked and then and he's, you know, I hear you're doing really well over there. And I had done some fun stuff. I have to tell you. I mean, I had done some really interesting cases that I thought that kept me going for a little bit, but not for long.

You know, I wanted to do other stuff. And I said, yeah, you know, I really, but I didn't have your background. I didn't have his background. And so, you know, shit, you've seen action. You know, shit, I just, and I said, well, look, you know, I mean, this is what I bring to the table. You know, I grew up in freaking Caracas, Venezuela. Okay.

I mean, I grew up in the streets, you know, my, I mean, I understand the way of the streets. I understand this stuff. And he was running those, and the FBI had been in the game of drugs now for a few years to get that concurrent jurisdiction with DEA. Plus, they had... Before that jurisdiction, would they stay hands-off? Drug stuff or just hand it over to the DEA?

Just hand-off because Hoover didn't want anybody. He didn't want to get involved in that. But the DEA didn't exist before that. It was BNDD. BNDD was a bureau before the DEA existed and then DEA was formed. And when he was formed, they brought a lot of executives from the

FBI. Gotcha. That makes sense. And they put the FBI veneer on it. In other words, they had it. The first crew of executives there, as I recall, were FBI guys. So, and then the other thing, too, is the way the FBI worked cases. You know, it wasn't the, you know, I got the Yale, you got the money. It was the theory of enterprise investigation, how we worked the mafia, how we worked, you know, organized crime, how we worked, you know, a lot of the different.

And they wanted that, that expertise brought into the drug arena, you know, and so that's what we brought in. And so how do you do it? Then you give both agents. They had that. That was their thing, Title 21, but then the FBI had it too. And that's one of the reasons, too, that when I spoke to Dawn, he had told me that. He said, you know, and you can switch tracks and all that.

So switching tracks wasn't as easy as I thought he would be, and so I was starting. He knew I was going to leave, and I did tell him at his house. And it was innocent of me, kind of, but he got it out of me. We were sitting at his bar, and then he was kind of interviewing me for his squad. And I said, well, you know what, I mean, if she just doesn't work out, I'm going to leave. I mean, I'm just going to, I'm going to apply. I'm going to go with the DEA. Yeah.

And I would have been talking to some other guys over there. I'm just going to go with the EA or I'm going to go with another agency. Or, you know, if I quit and then I'm just going to go with the military, then I'll go get the background that I need. Because if I don't have it right now, then I'm going to go get it. Yeah. You know, so he says, well, that's kind of backwards, you know? I mean, you do that first and then you come here, you know. And so he had a lot of pool.

He was incredibly well respected. And I knew he was well respected, and he pulled it off. He pulled it off. So he had a slacker or he had his slagger, somebody that he wasn't performing there, and then he swapped him, took that guy and put him in the white collar, and he actually had that background, okay, and he put him there. And so the guys in that squad, I remember took his entire desk, lifted everything, exactly how he had it.

everything exactly like lifted it and moved it across when he wasn't there and took it and put it in the other squad area way on the other side of the building and when I came in you know here's your desk so I didn't know that his desk was over there so they probably didn't like him too much he blew he blew a gasket yeah and he thought that I had something to do with it so he kind of confronted me and you know I'm new I'm on probation and he just kind of got in my face and blah blah blah and I'm like and in my head I'm thinking listen motherfucker you're fucking with the wrong guy you know but I'm just like you know, I kept my cool and he just went on his way and then, and then I was on. So, you know, my new boss, Tony, you know, calls me in and, and he's super intense.

And, you know, he brought PTSD and he was working out on all of us. So he's like, okay, you're on, man. So get to it. And so I was on. It was game on. And I had to make it. And I'm surrounded with guys like you. So forevermore, I'm like, you.

fucking trying to play fucking catch up, catch up, catch up, catch up, because I'm never going to be you. I did not go through the shit you went through. I did not go through the things that you guys, and I had nothing but respect and admiration, you know? It's a good thing, though. I think it's a good thing to have an outside influence

and an outside optic. If you have a group of people that all share exactly the same background, I think it's easy to get very myopic. Like in the SEAL community, as an example, you would think that it's only seals who do all the planning and all the stuff on target. And that's actually not the case. So at least in the Navy, there's like departments, N1 through N9. N1 is admin.

And two is Intel. And three is operations where the soldiers, for lack of a better term, work. There's N4 and 5 all the way up. But like when we go to the planning process, everybody gets brought in because you need to have buy-in from people who have, like, I need to talk to a weather guy. I need to talk to a specialist in illumination. I need to talk to the helicopter pilots. Like, is this too high? How many people can you hold?

Is this angle of the terrain? Can you actually land a 60 there or a 47? Do we need to go somewhere else? So I need as many experts as possible. And I've been on target with people who just specialize in electronics to speak about it broadly. Got it. Where we're watching them, you know, but we're completely relying on them to go, that's the house. So it can't just be us.

It's good to have people with a different viewpoint. And I always found it valuable, especially when people would first get into a SEAL team, to ask them about a tactic, be like, hey, what do you think about this? They had a totally blind view that wasn't tainted with 10 years of experience. And they sometimes would say things that were really revealing because they were looking at it from a direction that I wasn't looking at it from. I think it's great to have the experience, but if you don't have that balance, then you can get yourself into trouble. Yeah, you know, and looking back, if you said to me, what would you do if you could? If I would have gone into the military, I would have, I would have because I felt, but you know what? The other aspect of it was that I was able to get the Swiss cheese filled in.

I had guys like you who saw something in me, like one guy, you know, and I won't say his name, but he was gnarly, S.F. guy. And so all those guys that were in those squads were former military. SF had been in combat, had come back from Vietnam. They joke amongst themselves about shit that I didn't understand. You know, there's just fucking insider jokes that I didn't get.

You know, I'm like, wow, whatever the fuck that was. And then I figured out later on what it is, you know. And he liked me. He never talked. He fucking guy didn't talk. He carried a Bible. You know, I remember that, and he looked at passages and shit. And he's just like, he was like carved out of leather. And he just, and so In my head, I thought, well, he must be fucking really traumatized or whatever.

But he was a really good agent, gnarly, incredibly well respected, and he didn't fucking talk. But when he talked, he was smart. And he was one of the first HRT. HRT had come into existence in 83. And he was Danny Colson. And I think he was the former director that came under Webster. And he had gone and seen like a demonstration from Delta Force. and he felt that the FBI needed something really, you know,

and so, and I think that once he saw the whole thing, he was wondering, he said something about, you know, about creating something similar, but for domestic purposes. So by the time I came in, that team had the whole concept had been in existence a few years, okay, 83 to the time that I came in. So these guys were in the first HRT, second HRT teams. And so what they would do is once they were done with their stint. And I think at the time the HRT stint was six years.

Because a lot of those guys are already done military time. A lot of them have, you know, and so, and then they would get, you know, they get sprinkled across the offices to run the SWAT teams. Not a bad idea. So you had the HRT guys be the team leaders and assistant team leaders, and then they would train everybody. So very smart, really, because now you have this really nardly dudes running this really mini, you know,

operate and training you. So he was one of them, and most of these guys in these quads were highly trained, had technical, and so of course, you know, I come in and what I have is street smarts. That's it, really, and I know how to fight, and, you know, he liked me, and I didn't know that for

a long time. And I got yelled a lot and, you know, screamed at all a time, and I didn't care. And and I remember that, you know, he taught me a lot of different things. He did. You know, They filled in the holes. You know, sometimes they'll take me aside.

Come here. Don't fucking do that shit again. This is what you got to do, you know, okay. Or they would send me to schools, you know, to this, that. And I wanted to, you know, I want to be like that, man. It's like, how do I do this? You know, I got to go to the inservices. I got to go to another in service and this.

So that's one of the things where I felt at the time that I needed to, like, fill in that. But like you said, I did have the other aspect of it that I brought in. And so when you're targeting these groups and stuff, they couldn't read those things, but I could. Yeah, you could. So he was clear as day, and for them was probably right over the top of their head. They're like, no, no, we're going to do this. No, you're going to do that shit. Because if you do that shit, this guy is going to come in, he's going to do that. But I tell you,

know, so I go, dude, I mean, I'm telling you right now, that's exactly what's going to happen. Yeah. He's not, he's not going to buy that shit. He's not, you can't, you're going to telegraph it. And so I started to see that I could be an asset. Value ad, yeah. And then the exchange with them was like, you know, we're at the firing range. Hey, Tony, let me show you how to freaking, if you get your arm blown off,

let me show you how to freaking do, you know, do this thing, you know, with your left hand, you know. You get the sights and hook them on your belt and then you freaking load and, you know, oh, shit, that's really cool. Okay, give me your gun, you know, here. You're going to put this rubber band around it and, you know, you're going to do this shit.

Okay. And then, so I took to him, like, freaking, and I was a clean sleigh, and he always would tell me, he was like, yeah, you know, you're like a clean sleigh. You don't have to break fucking bad habits, you know, from other. That's true story, actually.

That's a true thing. people come up with, I don't know, would be the minimum to make a mark, but untraining or removing bad habits is way harder than taking somebody with no knowledge and just teaching them good habits right off the bat, or good procedures, I should say, to give them good habits. You know, and that's what I just developed a respect. I just really had it all the way until to this day, you know, to this day, really tough guys, really good guys, and, you know, and some of them, you know, the PTSD, I don't think they even had agnosed at the time. I mean, I don't even think that word existed, but the, but they're, you know, brought the experiences and, yeah, so.

So where else did your career take you from there? So I got 20 years is a long stretch. Yeah, so I worked organized crime, drugs, money, nine gangs, and they started to put together undercover operations. and I was really good at it. I was good at creating them. We have like... Well, your street smarts is going to play, like, in spades, doing that type of stuff. So I did that.

I, in that squad. And so my boss, you know, that former Marine, I told you, his name was Tony, he loved it. Because he took a chance on me, and I delivered. I freaking delivered. Delivered, delivered. And he loved it. And I, that dude never smiled. He never, you know, but he was...

I remember he just giving me one pat in the back ever. The only pat he ever gave him. me when I nailed it and you know and he's just boom gave me this huge padding with look to me just that was it and I just knew that you know he approved and you know obviously you know when you get raided and all that but I was putting the the cases together understanding the mentality of the drug dealers and and the organized crime figures and then I just realized that I mean I understand it I get it I know what they're doing and and so I started learning and you know the reality is like it's you have

have to take the initiative and you have to do it yourself. Nobody's going to freaking walk you through. And so you gravitate to the guys that are doing the stuff or you think they're doing it and who's not doing it and what. And then you strive to bring it. And for me, it was that. I didn't have complete training. So I was just getting it all in and then he started putting together my first undercover operations. And so you get authorities. You know, you get an authority to do an exploratory one. And then you get so much money and then that's it. And then you get like the group two and then that could be a six-month period but that's really involved because you got to get everybody to buy in on it and just like a freaking studio you got to put a proposal

together and budgets and this and that and explain to your bosses who the target is and how are you going to do it why are you going to buy it how does it fit into the whole thing why is it you know is this part of the mission does it fit in you know you can't just be going off on a tangent and so i soaked it in it in and this is where it affects your family because i was like a kid in the candy store I couldn't wait to wake up the next day. And I mean, every single day I was like loving it and soaking it in. And so I made friends and I started putting task forces together. I realized that, you know, force multipliers are where to go.

Because you can bring other agencies in and work with them, you know. And the FBI sometimes gets a bad rap because, you know, you have the one guy that comes in, oh, you know, we're going to take over. But there's different personalities, really, because there's different tracks. So if you meet somebody from a particular track, you know, it will be Catch Me if you can, you know, like Tom Hanks in that movie where he's just white-collar agent, he's chasing this guy.

But then you have the other guys. And so there's different worlds, complete different worlds. And so if you take this guy and you put him in charge of a task force that's doing all-nilly shit, well, this guy's going to piss everybody off. Yeah, he's not the right fit. He's not the right fit.

So I realized pretty quickly that, you know, the OSEDF TAF forces are the way to go, you know, organized crime, drugs, informant. task forces. And so I already had developed a lot of friendships with the DEA, and they liked me a lot. And then the CID, IRS, they're the gun-carrying type. You know, they're not the guys that are out of your books, and there are the other guys that just focus on, and there's a handful of them. And then I would bring in different kinds of agencies. And I started doing it. And what happens is that you ruffle feathers, too, because being that I was new and being that I had, you know,

didn't have those backgrounds. I just, I mean, my attitude was like, fuck it, man, I don't give a shit. I don't care what anybody says. I'm just going to do it. I'm going to be here. And I'm not trying to prove to anybody. I don't care. I'm an agent.

Once I got my book checked off and I had done everything, I'm just going to be the best I can be. And my motivation was this. I'm an American citizen. I'm in the greatest country in the world. I've been giving an opportunity to do something that's so amazing. And I'm just going to deliver it. And I'm going to do it. to do the best of my ability and I don't care, you know, and to the detriment on your own family

sometimes and, you know, and it happened. Yeah, the destruction of work, life balance. Yeah, you know, and she was very supportive, I have to admit, you know, she was very supportive and I did, and I had successes, and I was loving and I was getting, and because I spoke Spanish, eventually they were going to transfer you. You know, you couldn't stay in an office forever. You can't, anyway. You're going to get transferred moved around. And they're moving around. And the moving around, it's hard on your family. Yeah, for sure. So I was there for probably six, seven years, and then after that, I got a promotion and went to headquarters. And then when I was getting, went through the blizzard of 95 and, you know, my youngest almost died, you know, on the way there.

We got freaking Blizzard in, freaking Texas. And then I get there to headquarters and they said, here's your, no, you're not going there. You're going to special operations. Like, what the fuck is that? I couldn't talk to anybody. I can't say anything. So I get sent to another division that I didn't sign up for. My paperwork says this. No damn. And then my boss is like looking at me. He's like, no, this is where you're going to do. But I felt there was punishment. It was actually, it was a good thing.

And so I get put in with, so I ended up working and spending a lot of time working with DEA in my career. And I was really on off-sides, most of my career. I mean, most of my career, after Phoenix, I was in off-sides all the time. Well, I was in Phoenix, and during the time that I was working in white collar, I got sent to an RA to work. an Indian reservation, it was Mesa R.A. So you worked everything. It was a two-man RA. What does RA stand for? Honestly, it's like regional agency.

It's a field office. A super small field office. Okay. So it was two-man. And then one guy was on a TDI-Y somewhere, and then the guy that was there, I was supposed to meet him. And so I won't use his last name or his name, but it was pretty funny. So I get there, I'm supposed to fill in.

And I thought, oh, this is pretty cool. But at first, actually at first I thought, I don't know why they're putting me there. I figured it out. I wasn't really like up to snuff with the white collar stuff. Even though I had a white collar background, I couldn't keep up with the other guy. So they needed someone to fill in for this guy while he was gone.

So I get there. When I get there, it's in this old bank building and there's just the office and everything. And the guy's going to meet me there, the other one that's there. And he just puts his hand out. And he says, that's not his name. but he says fish I'm like fish and I'm a new agent you know I'm like fish and I'm like what the fuck you know I don't know the code I don't know the secret code you know that was his

he was giving his last name so I shook his hands and so and he tells me okay whatever you do you got the San Carlos reservation Apache reservation you know when the BIA calls you respond blah blah blah you know you just don't stop you get in the middle of the night you drive The BIA, the Bureau of Indian Affairs? Yeah. Does the FBI have any jurisdiction over reservation land? Well, at the time, we did. I believe they'd still do.

Even though it's a sovereign nation? Yeah, we would work with them because there was a murder sometimes. And lots of times they would have us come over. And I think a lot of it is just they didn't want to pay for the corner or whatever they have the FBI do it or whatever. And lots of times they have their own laws and, you know, they get lesser, you know, sentences for certain things that you wouldn't get, you know, if you were in on this side. So I, you know, you'd go in there. I'm as an FBI agent. I had jurisdiction there. So,

and I meet with the BIA and so if there was a murder or there's this and that. So the guy tells me, you just get in the car and, you know, make sure you have your long weapons. Have you all the weapons on whatever you do. Don't stop. I'm an agent. I'm like, okay, whatever. So I worked that for a little bit. I enjoyed it. That was part of my, you know, then when I went to headquarters after that, I ended up in San Diego in the mid-80s. Actually, it was, let me see. No, actually, it was 90s. And working organized tram drugs, my laundering gangs, doing a lot of the,

and I started, my expertise starting to be undercover, setting up undercover operations, you know, casting the freaking crew and doing the whole thing. And it was just like, it's like doing a motion picture, you know, basically. You know, you cast everybody, you go after the targets, and you put it together, and then you get funding. And then you have to prove that you can produce, you know. And how long does it take to put that casting together? It takes time because, you know, you have to go after,

you have to decide what the target, who the targets are. And then there's a whole process to it. It's not that easy. There's a lot of checkoffs and a lot of different people. And then he goes to a committee. And then you get, you know, a trial basis to see, you know, if you're getting there. And there's people's careers on the line.

line and there is, you know, all kinds of different on the line. And then if you get full approval, then you go to a full-on group one, and then that can go on for years. Really? Yeah, it could go on, and it could have spin-offs and all kinds of different things. It could be an operation that goes on for a long, long time. And then you interface with all different types of agencies, and it was fun. And then, you know, you get all the, you know, T.S, that's the I, and all these other stuff. Yeah, the clearances. Yeah, all that stuff. But, and then, and then, you know, and then, you know, all that stuff. But the aspect that I really loved was the chess game.

You're continually trying to figure out how to counter this and how counter that. And early on, there wasn't an undercover program that was being created. So right after like the Donnie Brascoe thing, I think the director had testified that the FBI was training people. So a lot of divisions were looking for all the undercover agents. You got to go, you got to go to Quantical. You got to, you know, get. And so they came up with a program and to train you and then to bring people in and all that. So I had been doing a lot of it, but I hadn't been trained, you know.

Yeah. You just go out there and freaking do it, you know. Well, you kind of had been trained. It was just your 15 years in, you know, Venezuela. Yeah. So, you know, so you just did it. And then now that's not the case. I'm sure they have a full undercover pipeline and program.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. You have to, like, they would give you a test, you know, It's like the test to ask you the 15,000 questions the same way. Same question, 15,000 different ways. Try to assess you psychologically and figure out, you know, if you have playing with the full deck or not or whether you can stand, you know. The only thing I've determined about those tests is that I fucking hate taking them. And I think that's what they are designed for.

Like if it can drive you nuts, if it drives you nuts, you're a normal person. If it doesn't drive you nuts being asked seven different ways of the pole vault is your favorite televised event, then. Yeah, those kinds of tests. It's like, why is the answer, why can't I have no? Strongly disagree. Disagree. Neutral. Agree.

Strongly agree. Yeah, that's right. When they have that, they have that. They had that and then they, now is really formalized. I mean, it's just definitely, there's a pipeline and you have to certify and all that. At the time when I came in, it was happening. But people were playing catch up and a lot of the divisions would get inspected. They wanted to make sure the agents that were working on the cover were certified.

I mean, sometimes it takes a little bit of time for the doctrine to catch up, especially if you are kind of writing the template on the fly or building the airplane as it's taken off. Yeah. Probably smart organizationally, though, to make a robust pipeline. So at least that way, you know the product that's going out into the field as well. Yeah. What was your most rewarding role that you filled when you were at the agency? Boy, I love, I mean, I loved every aspect of it. I think that I worked with some amazing people.

I trained a lot of really, really good people that I've seen go up the ranks way beyond, beyond what I could ever make. I mean, with stars on their shoulders who still text me and call me or, you know, and I'm like, Jesus Christ, you're like a freaking, you know. Yeah. Like, you know, like in the Navy, there would be like admirals, you know, but. We don't talk to those people, though. Yeah. You can do a certain rank. It's just like, hey, what's going on?

Yeah, exactly. But, you know, but I mean, when you see good people go up, then you feel good because you feel like, you know what? There's some really good people up there. And so there's not a monkey in a chair being twirled around throwing darts at a dartboard, you know. I mean, you have somebody that. And you want to know that. You want to know that whatever you left, I mean, it's still part of me, you know,

I mean, if they fuck up and this, I mean, I've been gone a long time. Yeah. And so, you know, it's like, you know, people ask me, I don't know. I've been gone forever, you know, but not forever. I've been a long time. But the bottom line is like when I was in, I was proud of being an FBI agent. I love my career. I love America. And it was all about America, really. And it's just a different perspective because I had to earn it, you know, I had to earn it. I felt I need to earn my citizenship. I need to earn it. And for me to earn it, I need to do something, you know, something that made a difference.

And for me, that was that. I mean, making a difference could be just working at a job or just doing whatever. I mean, there are other jobs in the FBI. They're very much needed. You know, you can be an analyst and you could be this and you can be done. They're phenomenal. They're brilliant and they do all kinds of different things and you need their intelligence because they put a target package together and their target package is fucking phenomenal.

You can't do your job. Like I was saying, N1 through N9. N3 is where like the seal operators fall under. And if people think that that is, I'll use Neptune Spear, the operation that killed bin Laden. if you think that the people who were flying like riding in the helicopter and got off and cleared the billing like if you think that they did that all by themselves you have such a skewed perspective of the probably thousands of people that required for that to terminate in those people being able to get on the helicopter at the end of the day from the guys I talked to who were there they were just like it was a totally normal everyday target that could have been the easiest portion of the whole thing was actually actioning the target And that's the part of it. And this is where your appreciation goes to a lot of the analysts and a lot of the sport personnel who love what they're doing.

They don't want to do your job. They don't want to do this stuff. They are there to provide you with intel, actionable intel that you can take action on and then you can just, boom, you know, put it right on it. And so I take my hat off to them, and I freaking, I treated them the way they need to be treated. And, you know, lots of times they get shoved in the background or people think, you know, that's not the track you want to do. I get it because...

But then your intel starts sucking. You're like, hmm, this target package... That's the wrong house. You hit the wrong house. This targets package is not as good as the one you used to give me. I wonder why. Yeah, watch them get entreated like shit. Yeah.

And they are less motivated. And when it sucks, because it's the people that you're serving that suffer. Yeah. But it's a real thing. People who focus only on, I hate the term, but, you know, the sharp edge or the pointy edge of the knife, they're missing the complete knife in and of itself and what it takes. Yeah, absolutely. And so that's one of the things where you develop appreciation, you know, for everybody. Everybody has a purpose. And, you know, agencies are only as good as the people in them, period, you know, all the way from the top. It's like a high school or at school, you know, it starts with the principal. I mean, and the shit rolls downhill. So, you know, it's, it's, and I look at what happens. And then he goes from there, you know, to the politicians and the people making rules and laws and stuff. I mean, because you and I can join everything. everything and ready to go, but then are we fighting the right war or are we in the right

situation? Are we being for the right reasons? You know? And so those are the things that you question, you know, but I felt good about what I did. I felt good about my mission, my job, what I did, you know, and what I, again, I said it earlier, you know, what I'd do it all over again? Absolutely. You know, I did love it and I hope that it continues on, you know, some of the things that

happened I mean I was stunned you know with some of the shenanigans and shit that happened with the Comey and and all that's other stuff and you know and you know like in other other agencies there's pencil nakes we call them pencil necks for sure fucking fucking that dude is never fucking he couldn't investigate himself over a paper sack if he if his life depended on it he could not he's never fucking shot anybody he's never done anything and he's never managed anybody I mean he managed the secretary and all of a sudden he's running an agency so he was not one of us. And so when you have, it's important to know that the people that are on the street

are doing a good job. They're really good FBI agents out there doing really good job. Agents from other agencies. They're military guys. Everybody wants to do their job right and they want to have good leaders that they understand them, they value them when they come back. And then PTSD is live and well in everything, including my agency. Oh, for sure. You know, and, you know, you you know, EAP, you know, nobody goes to it. You know, it's like, oh, here's the psychologist. Nobody's going to fucking talk to the guy. I mean, the moment you do that, you're fucking telegraphing,

you've got a fucking problem. Yeah, you're going to fucking, they're going to bench you. So the one thing that, you know, is knowing that the people have your back in your agency, you know, they have it. And that's one of the things that I felt for a long time. But then again, you know, people go up the ranks and, you know, you're going to have people that don't like you. and people like you and whatever.

Sometimes people change as they ascend the ladder as well. You know. That's what I'm saying. I mean, there are some, the best leaders that I ever was around was in the SEAL community and the worst that I was ever around

in the SEAL community. And if you take somebody who is selfless and cares about their people and as a leader, they realize it's their job to empower their subordinates and it's about the team and giving the team credit, you put some stars on that person's shoulder

and they can do amazing things. But if you have somebody who maybe comes from the same school or background and it's kind of more about them. You throw some stars on those shoulders. Better watch the fuck out. No kidding. And from the outside perspective, it's like, oh, that's an ad brawl.

That's so amazing. Thank you for your service. Meanwhile, there's just people in back offices like sharpening fucking pencils, hoping they can just jab them in the back with it. It's like, well, that happens in every agency. For sure. Well, we're talking about people. Yeah.

People are, they suck sometimes. Yeah, exactly. I mean, and you just like, yeah, exactly. And you just have to like look beyond that. And I used to tell that to the guys who worked for me when I was in L.A. And we were doing, you know, organized crime. We were doing the gangs and stuff. And I was working with the LIPD and the sheriff's department.

And I just tell me, hey, guys, we are the agency. You are it. So it's how you come across and what you do personally because it stops with you. It might be somebody's only touchpoint. Exactly. If you've never worked with the DEA or seen a DEA agent and you get a douchebag on your first round, you could dismiss the entire agency accidentally. Absolutely.

Yeah. Absolutely. And so, you know, in working with the other agencies, you know, you're always like, you know, you have to come to the table and say, you know, and everybody's, you know, got the LIPD, you got the sheriffs. Hey, let's come together on this thing. Let's just put this operation together. Let's do this. And, you know, it really comes down to that. And also it comes leading from, you know, from when you lead your troops or you lead your people,

You have to put yourself there. And it's important to have somebody that's done it. And lots of times the guys are going to know right away. You know, this guy's never done the shit. For sure. And it affects you. You know, it affects you. I mean, I had bosses like that, you know.

And we were going to have some kind of a meeting with all these other brass. And I just, I mean, I tell them that the meeting was like three. And, you know, actually it was at 1 p.m. He shows up fucking late. And I had my business partner who was a, you know, the lieutenant commander just dude you know just go over meeting he's what meeting is a freaking he was to think he was to the meeting's ending yeah and he was pissed at me and everything but he had no idea with the confliction of us he had no idea of this that and he was ready

to shut down the fucking operation we've been working for a long time he's going to piss this guy off he's going to piss that guy off at work really fucking hard to get all these freaking you know and so um i don't want him there he's going to take credit for the whole thing you know he's well we haven't you know and then at the end of he got promoted I got promoted again. So he doesn't matter, you know. Why did you decide to stop? I'm assuming you could have stayed in longer.

Yeah, I could have. Divorce, gnarly divorced, my son, you know. Life has a way of the little uppercut right to the ball sack. Well, divorce, you know, I've been there, done that. I just, I just, you know, I had to leave. You know, I just, what I saw was, there's no way I'm going to recover financially. I'm going to end up filing with bankruptcy, which I did. you know, I wasn't talking to my boss.

Just, hey, listen, you know, this is happening. Fuck that. I'm not going to go to my boss and tell them, hey, these shit's happening and that shit's happening. They're not going to tell them. What do you think would have happened if you did? They're not going to do anything. They're not going to fucking do anything.

So, and what are they going to do for me? Well, sorry, that's happening to you, whatever. I mean, there's nothing. What would you have done if somebody had come to you and said the same thing? Then I would have helped them. Maybe they would have helped you too. I don't think. Obviously, we're talking, Christobal and hindsight?

The ones I had, no. Oh, you had that type of leader? Yeah, the ones I had weren't going to help me. They didn't give a fuck about me. Yeah, you'd hope that the leader that you would have above you if you came to them with that would be like, okay, I'll stop whatever the fuck you need because you're going to be a better agent, the better off that your family is. Like, handle this so you can come back and knock your job out of the park.

Yeah. And leave with, what do you need from me? Yeah. For my guys, I just, I would do anything. And you know what? I do get texts from some of them, you know, and they'll tell me and, you know, And that means a lot to me. I got an email.

I got something that I got from one of my guys, you know, and it was just three lines. And, you know, it was amazing. And I will keep that forever because it's about being there. And, you know, I memorized something when I was the FBI Academy, and I never heard it before then. And it's pretty popular now, but at the time I never heard it. And I memorized it as best I could, you know, but I'll quote it for you. is not the critical counts, not the man who points out how their strong wind stumble, or where the doer of these could have done better.

The credit belongs to the man who's actually in the arena, whose phase is marked by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes short again and again. Who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions and spends himself in a worthy cause, who at best knows the triumph of high achievement, and who at worst, if he fails, he fails while daring greatly, so that his plays shall never be with those cold and timid souls known neither victory nor defeat. I memorized that, and I heard it from a CIA guy, actually, who had switched over to the FBI.

And I thought, I love that. Can you write that down from me? I'm going to memorize it, and I memorized it. Who originally is that quote accredited to? Teddy Roosevelt, and one of my, you know, I idolize him. He's a fucking phenomenal guy. I mean, I don't know if you know. That's a spectacular quote.

I don't know if you know the story, but I mean, he's gnarly dude. He was. I know he did jitsu. You know what? He did everything. I mean, he had polio. He overcame polio. Did he get punched in the eye because he was boxing and like almost lost an eye.

And they're like, okay, Mr. President, no more boxing. He was giving his speech long after he had been president. And as he was giving a speech, he was shot in the chest. And he had, I believe, a book or something in here. The bullet went through. and impunctured him but didn't go deep enough. He was bleeding. Nobody really knew whether he went in or didn't.

He would not get off the freaking stage until he finished speaking. And he said, I'm going to finish. This is the kind of man he was. When he finished, he went to South America. Where did he go? To Venezuela, to the Orinoco River with his son. And he went on an adventure to find another, whatever.

And there's a book called The River of Doubt. and he almost freaking didn't make it with his son Kermit and got malaria. Terrible name, by the way. Yeah. He really fucked his son over on that way. There was a popular name back in 1910. I guess. Not, didn't age well.

So, but he, yeah, he was gnarly, you know, and that quote just carried me because I figured, you know, and it is about the people. It is not the critic. You know, there's a lot of guys, you know, a lot of your listeners, you know. Yeah. And a lot of guys you've had through here. And, you know, you're giving people a platform to speak, to be heard, you know, to be heard about their PTSD, about their lives, about that. And I just love it, you know, and I stumble across your thing. And what's interesting is that, you know, they need to be heard.

People need to be heard about what they've done, what they, you know, there's so many unsung heroes, you know. One of, another inspiration I had was a neighbor that I had in Los Angeles. Vegas, you know, while I was still working at that department store. And then my neighbor, in the apartment I was in, he was a retired colonel, Richard Beers. And he had lied about his age, and I don't know if he was in World War II, but he was definitely in Korean War in Vietnam, and rose through the ranks. And I think he was, he didn't, I don't know if he went to college, but I think he achieved the rank colonel without a college degree. And he was gnarly dude. In that time period, that was possible for sure.

and I don't know that, but I don't think he had college, but he was a gnarly dude, and he was a great guy. He died from leukemia, you know, from Agent Orange and all that. But we became friends, and I have my dad, my dad loves me and everything, but he became kind of like a dad and a mentor. And so he knew that I had been applying. And, of course, the agents went knocking on his door and stuff, but, you know, he was just one of those people,

like the many people you've had through here. And so those are on-sung heroes, you know? And he was just here working at a casino. I think he was assistant pit-pots. or something, but I had done all these amazing things, you know. And so along the way, you know, in fact, a really good friend of mine that I met in San Diego that we worked task forces together and all these different things. And he was in Vietnam.

He was a Marine captain pilot, Apache helicopter, you know, not Apache, but Huey's. And we became friends. We worked together. He was much older than me. But, and, you know, he had done all this different things that you hear. like your dad had done and then comes back and then, you know, joins the police department and goes to the sheriff's department and some of them, you know, joined the FBI. And so those people like that are always, I always admire them because lots of times they never

talk about anything. I didn't know anything about my friend. And I've known him for years until- You had to drag it out of him? No, 20 years later, I didn't drag anything out of him. I went to his house one day and we were sitting there and I'm looking at all the stuff he had done. I'm like, holy shit. Yeah. I'm like, Jesus.

I go, hi, never mind, no big deal. So, yeah, yeah. So why did you decide to write a book? Or when did you decide to write a book? Both, actually. Well, it's being a long time coming. I took a long, long, long time, really, actually. I was reluctant for many reasons.

I mean, obviously. As many are. Yeah. And I figured he would probably take a long time to get it through the FBI, you know, all that, you know, because you know you just have to and and uh but uh i just felt that i needed to i felt that i wanted to tell my story and i'm an immigrant i came to this country spoke no english assimilated i'm not complaining i love this country i don't want to change this country i want

to change nothing i love the way it was when i came uh and you just take your lumps and you you know i mean this is not a freaking you know it's just when people want to be accepted and you have to do everything for everybody I didn't want people to do anything for me I wanted to earn it so earn your place you know earn your place I came here because I wanted a better thing for myself and and I had no idea I mean it was you know I shared with you how I ended up here and I love it I love this country I love it the way it is and I don't like what what I see I don't like what I'm seeing that's happening is divide and conquer you know and just all these divisions and there's all these people have never done shit talking out of their asses.

It's never freaking seeing any action, anywhere, anything, and they're making decisions that are impacting us all. You know, everything. I mean, they want to control everything. And, you know, and I just think that, I felt that, you know, it was, I needed to speak up. I needed to tell my story. This is what it is.

And it's still a great country. We need to like, you know, I'm middle of the road. hey, you want to do that, go for it. You want to do this? That's fine. You want to believe in freaking Martians? Go for it. I mean, I believe everybody's entitled to believe and do what they want to do, you know, within reason.

But a happy medium is where it's at, you know? And the happy medium is where we need to come together at. And, you know, as I get older, I don't know how, you know, what, you know, in 10 years I'll be fucking 70, you know, 20 years will be 80, and then I'll be gone. So I never, actually had considered doing it but I thought you know I need to do it and he took a lot I mean I don't have I I didn't have any social media until like two months ago I didn't have a picture

on my LinkedIn I have a business but all my business came from word of mouth and they were advertised and I didn't want it I you know the social media I was ultra super reverse you know to it for a good reason and so I realized that you know now I mean like I mean I've started to because of you know the book yeah so for people listening the books called outside agent outsider outsider agent how did you come up with that title because i'm an outsider i've always been an outsider you know an outsider it's somebody that just doesn't quite fit in you know and it's always taking risks and i've my whole life has been nothing but a risk and then you know i left you know

and uh i'll get what i get when i'm 62 you know i left the freaking bureau yeah and you know i didn't wait till like they give me my fucking pension i'm out of here you know i got to save my son i'm gonna go bankrupt you know but probably they don't want a bankrupt guy here and i'm gonna go and i'm gonna start my own fucking business and i did and i walked out and i how much money you got and my partner he's lieutenant commander had 10 years in the navy 10 years in the hippie i'm like dude you can't come with me he's my second in command he shuts the door dude you're leaving i was go yeah oh you fuck you got 10 years in dude i got 20 years in government you know so he left with me and i said dude we're gonna fucking we just get out there put your freaking daniel boon hat on and then we're gonna freak it and we're

just kind of freaking entrepreneur. Well, so tell me about your business. What do you guys do? Security consulting investigations, and we've been, we've had it for 13 years. So marketing 101. What's it called? Eric Smar. Where does that name come from?

Well, Adi is from my last name, my last name, Erzmendi. Adi in Basque means mountain. And then I wanted an X in the middle, and Mar is ocean. So mountain's an ocean. Okay, I can dig it. Eric's Mar. So we launched it. We had, I thought I asked him,

how much you got fucking, you know, how much you got in your 401k? Oh, 40,000. Oh, shit, you know, how much, you know. So I had what I had. I'm getting divorced. I had to split it with my ex. Hey, do you realize that if you leave now,

you can't get your pension until you're 62. But if you wait a couple more, you know, I'm like, I'm leaving. It's the classic. That's the classic government care. Let me just tell you, but I mean, I'm just telling you, if you wait, because we're going to cut it, because you're on the first.

and the under first, and if you do, then you're going to get this, and you get the high pay, whatever. High three. High three, yeah, high three and all these other shit. And I'm like, you know, I got to go, man. I got to go, and I'm not going to. And I never discussed it. I mean, I just went right, and I just, I did it.

And, you know, I just figured, I mean, I did go bankrupt. I mean, I was going to go bankrupt. I was going to lose everything. So what are you going to do? Where am I going to cry to? Oh, you know, fuck it. You know, and a lot of guys are coming back from Afghanistan. A lot of guys in the military, they fucking get out.

They do the hitch for four years, but they get fucking nothing, unless they do a second hitch, and what do you get? Nothing. You get closer to the 20, and then they hang the carrot in front of you. It's the classic sunken cost fallacy. You've already put so much time in. Just stay the next 10. And what I tell people is, if you really enjoy in your job, do it. Stay in. Yeah. But imagine the possibilities of where your life could be in the 10 years if you wanted to. And if you're comfortable with failing and picking your. yourself up, which is, I don't know if I'd necessarily consider myself an entrepreneur, but I certainly haven't been successful in everything that I do. It's failure, learn from the mistakes, and continue on. If you take that other track, like if the military is track A and you hop off track B

and have another 10 years, I look back now, had I had stayed, or if I had stayed working for some of the companies that I had worked for, I'm like, I'd be doing the same stuff, working for somebody else. Exactly. telling me where to be for how long for money that I used to think was great and now it's fucking just like that I'm insane that if I would have ever even considered staying down that path I would have been insane but look what you're doing you're doing so many different things for for other brothers you know for other brothers I mean from all the agencies from all that you're doing

it you are doing it you are doing people a voice you're encouraging people you're a role model you don't even know it or maybe you do know it I'm definitely not I'm a role model for a shitty behavior No, you are a role model. And, you know, it's like, you know, you just have to jump. You got to fucking jump, and I jumped. You know, and a lot of people, people get institutionalized. For sure. Some of these institutions, military and, I will say probably a lot of the three-letter agencies,

yeah. Part of their employment is designed to institutionalize you. And I'm not necessarily saying that negatively, but let's just be honest. It's just part of the culture. Yes. It's part of the culture. Yes. It's part of the fucking culture because they get institutional.

So they can't function. You can function outside of the institution. The institution is, it's like, freaking, you get in and you know exactly where you're at. But when you leave, then what do you do? You don't know how to function in the fucking private sector. So I had guys in my outfit going like, oh, man, they're here in Fort, whatever, wearing your fucking blue uniform where you're the freaking blue hat on. And me and Rich are out there, you know, with our, you know, muskets and shit.

We're out fucking, fucking, you know, and then we come back into the Ford and light the fire and say, How's the guy out there? Man, we really admire you guys, but they're all sitting there wishing they were out there, but they really don't want to fucking do it. But then, you know, and they're torn. You know, they're torn. But the reality is that we jumped.

We fucking jumped. And I, yeah, I did. I went bankrupt. I was like one fucking minute from living in my car and losing everything. And I never said anything to my sons or my, I just said, fuck it. I'm going to save my son. And he's a rock star.

And so he's my other one. And I'm just going to freak. And I'm not going to fucking cry to anybody. because it doesn't matter. You just got to get it done. Imagine how you would feel if you didn't jump for that desire to save your son and it hadn't worked out.

You would never get past the regret. Well, what happens is this. Andy, you know, I have been there and done. I fucking repeating grades, man. I'm doing freaking Groupon on the cover, the same fucking thing all of a sudden. I didn't in San Diego. I didn't in L.A.

I did here. I did there. You know what? I'm not getting it freaking. I'm not getting adrenaline. In fact, the only thing I was getting at that point was they made me feel good. I was helping other guys that come in

and they tell me they run their operation by me and shut the door and you know and I was helping the... I was collocated with DEA, so I'm in DEA space all the time. I was like a freaking, you know, I had like an embassy at DEA. You know, I mean, DEA here, special operations.

I'm in DEA, San Diego. When I was in San Diego, I was in DEA. I never set foot. I set foot at the FBI office a couple times, but I was in DIA space. And in LA I was in the fucking 17th floor at the freaking Royal Bowl building downtown at DEA.

And I was friends with all of them. And they actually appreciated it because they felt that they had somebody that understood them. And that was a smart part, by the way, from the FBI to be able to put the guy that could understand the language in and all that. But the thing is, I felt that I was helping them. They would run shit by me and go, dude, seriously, are you going to do that shit? And when I got the Yale, you got the money. Dude, you got to get creative. Let's just figure this thing out.

You got to do it this way. You got to do that way. This, that. And then pretty soon you realize that when you're training guys, you get something out of it. And when you get out of it, you feel like you pass it on. And so you pass those little nuggets. They were passed on to me. And then I'm passing them on and appreciating them.

And, you know, there's funny stories. You know, I had, you know, guys that just like, you know, I don't want to embarrass anybody. So, but they will just run some cockamamie fucking operation. Oh, dude, I've been on the most catastrophic military operations ever that in the moment, I was relatively convinced I was going to kill some of my coworkers out of anger. and now decades later getting together

with those same people we're fucking pissing ourselves laughing it's like okay so we're all clear that we survive due to luck right like none of us

are any fucking good we suck and nobody was there to catch us and they're like oh yeah we just die laughing exactly and then you just sit there

and you're going what the fuck is this guy thinking how did we actually arrive at a place where we thought this was what we were going to brief and do

I mean one time this guy he was newer and everything And he's trying to make his bones and he's like a freaking black belt and three different styles and he's been here

and he's done this and that but he's new to our fucking game, right? So he's wanting to put this operation together and my second in command who's my business partner but he was my second command at the time he comes in, hey blah blah blah wants to talk to you about this thing and he's so he briefed me on it

and he tells me but there's a problem and I go well what's a fucking problem? Well dude the targets he wants to go after yeah they're dead and I go what do you mean they're dead they're dead what do you mean they're dead so he starts showing me the chart he goes that guy's dead that guy's dead so what the fuck is he getting to bring me on well he wants to brief you on the operation but i don't think he's done the homework oh let him do that brief and have a few pointed

questions he did so i said okay let's do it set it up at the conference room i want to have the fucking brief fuck yes and boy did we have fun you call that one the dead man walk in brief let me tell you Did we have fun? And he's like, so tell me more. You know, so we're looking at me just, you know, here's this guy, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then finally, so you did your homework, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so this guy is that guy. And my partner, he's standing in the corner, and he's fucking keeping it together. He's just, he's just, ready to fucking boss guy laughing. And then finally he's like, and then, I said to him, he said, so, and so I bust, I broke it. They're dead. The fucking guys are dead.

Is that right? They're dead, right? They're dead. They're dead. Dead, dead. all fucking debt. So what the fuck are we doing here? I said, listen, dude, I need you to partner up with this guy's there. Learn the fucking shit first. And then you can come to me with an operation. But he'll never forget that. No. And, you know, he's turned out be a phenomenal guy,

amazing freaking guy. But, you know, it's just, it was, there's humor, you know, and there's, sometimes people say, hey, you guys have dark humor. It's not dark humor. I mean, I don't know how to explain that to people, you know, because people get offended, you know. I mean, I've had even family members, I'll tell them a story and they're like, well, you know, like, how was that funny? I'm like, uh, you know, so, you just like, okay, yeah, I won't tell that story around, around anybody else because they'll get offended immediately.

They'll just think, okay, you know, you guys are fucking dark. But, you know, they're humorous. They're humorous to us. And sometimes attention is really high and things happen. And, you know, um, context matters in those situations. Yeah, you know, and there, you know, it does. And, and, uh, you know, shit happens sometimes. and you just have to move on, you know.

You know, and it is stressful. And one of the things that I just, I hope that as people move up through the ranks and they do their things and all that, that they, you know, that our guys get taken care of, you know, in the military, in government, in the agencies. Because, you know, people are serving. They're giving their lives. They're putting everything on the line and they walk out with nothing. I walked out with nothing.

Yeah. I literally fucking went bankrupt not too long after I left. And then me and my partner, we never fucking broke around. We were like to fucking blow that whistle and we're not fucking breaking rank. And we didn't. And we just took off right away. We took off. And then our business did it really well.

And we just took off. We just left. But, you know, there are guys that get so fucking stressed out and they'll take their lives, you know. Far too many of those guys, actually. You know. So I was looking at your website. It seems like you guys do security and investigations. It seems like a lot of the security is online type of security.

We did some of that. Yeah. And I asked because I'm fascinated. by the type of threats that you guys were seeing or encountering. I don't, I don't host like an online, I mean, there's like a store for the podcast, you know what I mean, but I don't have like a huge business presence online, but I'm fascinated by the threats that are out there. Yeah, and I'm not, you know, I'm not a techie guy.

Yeah. I mean, so I subcontract that, all that stuff out. But, yeah, it's there. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I know what I know, and I know what I don't know. I don't know any of that. I mean, I come from that room. But yeah.

So I have guys that you do that, through Jedi's who were very, very good at it. And they protect me from, you know, but it changes all the time. And they tell me all the time. It's like, what was good last year and year before that, it's like freaking, it's like dog years, you know. So. Yeah, it seems like the threat of like military on military lining up tanks against each other, if you remove Ukraine and Russia right now, it would be a really poor example of what I'm about to say. It seems like that type of warfare or trench warfare is probably passe at this point.

but the information warfare, because I know so little about it, and how fast systems can be manipulated. And maybe people don't realize how razor-thin the margins are, like maybe the electrical grid, and how fast that could be shut down and the things that could happen from that. That shit actually scares me a lot more than squaring off as somebody with a rifle, just because of the compound. And people in this country fucking fall apart, almost instantly.

Yeah, I agree with you. I mean, I agree. You're always going to eat new troops on the ground. I mean, because I think that, you know, people think that you can just fight this. And I guess at some point, AI will take over and then we'll have, we'll have freaking, you know, Terminator. Yeah, we'll all work for the robots. Yeah, exactly. I mean, that probably will happen, you know, and it's beyond me, you know. Maybe it's already happened, Tony. We just don't know yet. Well, you know, yeah, I wouldn't doubt it. I mean, I wouldn't really doubt it. I mean, it's true. Yeah. Yeah. What's next for you? So, you know, I don't know. I may write another book, maybe, maybe a couple books. I don't know. I'm considering it, and we'll see what happens here.

Big question is, when are you getting married? Don't think that I forgot you didn't answer that question. You took me on a very circuitous tail around that. Yeah. Does she ever hit you up and be like, hey, fuck. Did I tell you we were engaged for 11 years? Yes, I'm saying. Does she ever hit you up and be like, hey, you want to put a, like, a date on the calendar?

Well, you know, it's funny because, you know, it's kind of become like not, I told him, I said, you know, I'm just going to be like Jim Simmons from Kiss, you know. He was with Shannon for like 26 years. Well, what state do you guys live in? California. You might be common-law married as it is. No, I'm going to become Tony Montana. Tony Montana.

Yeah, I'm going to. But no, seriously, I love it up here, by the way. This is freaking God's good. It's great, isn't it? It's amazing. I love it. I've told her, she's got kids that are in high school, and that's one of the reasons we haven't left, really.

Otherwise, I would have been gone a long time ago. But, you know, it's just sad what's happening there and what's happening. And, you know, I just love what, you know, I love this country. I just hope it freaking things change. But as far as the, yeah, you know, I think we will. I mean, honestly, it was really hard divorce, and I was married for a long, long time. I didn't want to get divorced, the kids, that, you know, you can relate.

You were early on, you're probably where I was a long time ago, and it gets better. You want to do make friends with your wife. You do. You do want to. And even if he's not buddy-buddies, hey, you know what? You got kids. And they are half few and they're half her. And that told her that.

And so they're half few. And if you're freaking up, you know, bat-mouthed me and all those other stuff, you know, you're going to hurt their feelings. You're not going to, you know. And she never did. But we had the discussion. So I think that it does get better. And but after that, I just thought there's no way I freaking.

I'm not going to get married. I don't really give a shit. I'm not, I don't care. You know, and then she's amazing, and we've been together for a long time. So it's just like, you're like, am I like on probation? You know, it's like 11th, but not really. Extended probation. No, you know what?

I mean, I'm on probation for her. You know, I mean, you know, actually it works. You know what? One of the things that I always thought about was, look, you know, if you want to be with somebody, you're with somebody. You don't need to, like, have a piece of paper that says. Yeah, don't have to involve the. government in that. You know, you don't have to be a piece of paper that says, you know,

I'm married. So now we're with each other. Hey, you know what? You can walk out anytime you want, and I'm with you because I want to be with you. Yeah. You're with me because we want to be with me. And we're together. But it makes sense from the perspective of, you know, the legalities of things. If something happens to you, medical, this, that, whatever, or her, you know, then you can act. Otherwise, you're just, you know, so I think the, you know, we will. And I don't know when, but, you know, It's funny now because, you know, she'll get ass. Yeah, you know. Well, don't rush it.

I mean, give it a good another five or ten years. I mean, fuck, why not? You're already 11 deep. Yeah, that's so funny. Look at you. Tell that to your fiance. Well, here's the thing. You know, I...

She'll kick your butt, man. My fiancé would be my ass. Yeah, she is a world champion black belt in her competition years. And the thought of marriage means... different things to different people. And what I would say, we can sit around and joke about being engaged forever. Yeah. If you're with somebody in marriage means a lot to them, maybe not the government involvement,

but for whatever reason it means a lot to them, maybe if you want it to be successful in your relationship, take that into account. Or maybe you meet somebody who doesn't care. And it's like, fuck it. It's true. You know, it's true. And I think we will. I mean, at this point, I mean, we've been together long enough that, you know,

and it's just like, I'm not going anywhere. I mean, he's fucking 60 years old. I mean, you know, I'm not, I don't, I don't have any, I mean, I mean, everything that I've ever wanted to do, I've done, Andy. I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm there. It's a good place to be. So it's like, you know, from now, you know, at this point, it's just trying to just, you know, he's not to kick the bucket because I'm not ready to do that. But I, she's good. She's good for me and we're a team and she's, you know, so yeah.

That's all it matters. Then it seems like you guys have the same headspace when it comes to. Yeah, I mean, she was really encouraging with the book. I mean, she had a lot to do with encouraging me. me a lot, you know, and I just dug in my heels. I mean, because, you know, we come from that world where you just don't want to talk about shit. Yeah.

And so he's like, social media. It's like, what is the Instagram and, you know, shit, you know, and I had to figure all these things out, you know, the last few months, honestly, you know, I just. With the book, social media will help. It's just a, it's a, you know, and then you have to get Instagram, you have to get this and what's better. And then I have to literally get a book to read, you know. I don't think you have to do anything.

It is a tool in the modern era that people use to, well, well, you know, well, you waste time, but also connect with one another. I mean, I've watched in my own kids, there are some hugely negative aspects to social media and these fucking devices that we all live connected to. I am as guilty as anybody else is being connected to it too much at a time. I think self-control and discovering these later in life helps out. And like I said, there's some huge negative aspects. But also social media allows you to connect to people you would never.

connect. So there's a huge positive aspect as well. And as an author, my buddy Jack Carr, who writes the Terminalist series. They're just getting ready to what's the 21st, like seven days from today. They're launching it. They turn the first book Terminalist into a Chris Pratt series on Amazon. He uses Instagram and those mediums to respond back to people and kind of stay connected. And I think that's hugely positive. And he really bookends his amount of time and how he has those interactions. And if you can do that, nothing, I think, but great things. You'll never know who you're going to meet.

And that's one of the things. And I'm new to it. Yeah. I mean, I literally new to it. I mean, I even ask her, and she laughs. You know, she's like, you know, it's like, do you have to put your picture in it? I had LinkedIn because of my business. Yeah.

But I never had my picture in it for like almost, like, in 13 years, you know? Yeah. And I never advertised. I never even, I mean, I've never been on a podcast. This is it. So, but, you know, it's like that was difficult to come through that and just, because you're so programmed in a way they're just, I don't give a shit, you know, I don't know, I don't care if anybody knows me, but you know, you need to do this thing. So I said, okay,

do I have to have my picture. Yeah, you do. So, okay, so, okay. So now I've crossed that threshold, okay. And then, so yeah, so I'm, you know, I hope some people get something out of the book. They get impacted by it, maybe in some positive way. I, I, I want everybody to know, you know, that there are a lot of people like me, you know, there are people who do come to this country I do love it and want to really you know they want to be part of it they want to be they want to support it and and I'm one of them you know and I came here a long long time ago and I freaking love it and and this is it you know this is it for me and and so yeah so so so so where can people find you and where can they find your book so so so

checking out more Montana with your fiance yeah she uh outsider agent actually is anthony eresmendi dot com and then on on Instagram and I think that, and I'll give you something, she wrote something down. Yeah, I can put it in the show notes. We got a couple weeks, so it's good. I don't even know. That's right?

Yeah, but she gave me the stuff. I'll give it to you. I don't know. You don't need to know, but you need to know somebody who does know so they can give it to me so we can actually help you get books. People's hands. I just told her, I said, you know,

tell them this, I don't know. We'll figure it out. We got a couple weeks. Yeah, but I cannot thank you enough for making the travel up. Yeah. Like I said, I want you to get you and your fiancee out

and join the modern Okay, summer weather that we're having. I actually think, though, do you fly out tomorrow? No, actually, we're going to take a day to drive around. I'm going to rent a car. Tomorrow is going to be sunny. Oh, great. And the following day will be sunny, too.

So definitely enjoy that. Yeah, yeah, we're going to do that and we'll fly out the next day. But I've loved it. I appreciate you having me here. And to your listeners, because you told me to say this, not to your listeners, I'll give you something, but they can pull up a preview of the book, I guess, you know. Perfect.

Okay. Thank you for your time. Tony. Thank you. Yeah. Appreciate it.