Cleared Hot - Powered By BRCC - Episode 275 - George Monsoor

Episode Date: March 6, 2023

George Monsoor is the father of Michael Monsoor and a Marine veteran. He was born in Wisconsin and moved to Southern California at an early age where and his wife, Sally, were married for forty-nine years and have four children, including Michael, along with nine grandchildren. He has spent more than five decades in the business and entrepreneurial fields and continues to reside in Southern California. George and Rose Rea are the co-authors of "Defend Us in Battle". The book includes a foreword by Dr. Donald C. Winter, former Secretary of the Navy. Through interviews, military documents, and eyewitness accounts, the authors detail Michael's remarkable military career and devotion to God and others. The book highlights how Michael prepared for this selfless act all his life—a life that will inspire readers to have a similar generosity of heart. George's son, Michael, was a Navy SEAL, and was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor for his actions on September 29th, 2006. His Medal of Honor Citation reads: The President of the United States of America, in the name of Congress, takes pride in presenting the Medal of Honor (Posthumously) to Master-At-Arms Second Class (SEAL) Michael A. Monsoor, United States Navy, for conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while serving as Automatic Weapons Gunner in SEAL Team 3, Naval Special Warfare Task Group Arabian Peninsula, in support of Operation IRAQI FREEDOM on 29 September 2006. As a member of a combined SEAL and Iraqi Army sniper overwatch element, tasked with providing early warning and stand-off protection from a rooftop in an insurgent-held sector of Ar Ramadi, Iraq, Petty Officer Monsoor distinguished himself by his exceptional bravery in the face of grave danger. In the early morning, insurgents prepared to execute a coordinated attack by reconnoitering the area around the element's position. Element snipers thwarted the enemy's initial attempt by eliminating two insurgents. The enemy continued to assault the element, engaging them with a rocket-propelled grenade and small arms fire. As enemy activity increased, Petty Officer Monsoor took position with his machine gun between two teammates on an outcropping of the roof. While the SEALs vigilantly watched for enemy activity, an insurgent threw a hand grenade from an unseen location, which bounced off Petty Officer Monsoor's chest and landed in front of him. Although only he could have escaped the blast, Petty Officer Monsoor chose instead to protect his teammates. Instantly and without regard for his own safety, he threw himself onto the grenade to absorb the force of the explosion with his body, saving the lives of his two teammates. By his undaunted courage, fighting spirit, and unwavering devotion to duty in the face of certain death, Petty Officer Monsoor gallantly gave his life for his country, thereby reflecting great credit upon himself and upholding the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.

Ladies and gentlemen, good morning. I hope you're ready for a banger of an episode. Before that, though, let's talk about the brand that makes this podcast possible. That's right, Black Rifle Coffee. What you need to do right now is go to their website and order some of their fools gold. The Irish cream flavored coffee that I'm literally looking at a countdown clock right now. Now, by the time this comes out, it should be live. I don't know how much they're going to have, but if you can get some, you absolutely should.

If that doesn't work, my recommendation would be join their coffee club. And there's a couple. There is the traditional or regular, I guess, could be used coffee club. And then there's the ECS, which is a different blend every month, unique, hand-picked. I think most of them are single origin, but they are fantastic. And if you are a coffee snob slash nerd, which you know who I'm talking to when I say that, this is your place to go for sure. What else can you get on the black riflecaffeoffic.com?

everything you possibly could need to make coffee. And of course, all of the merchandise that you would like to wear to support the brand. That's it. My guest for today is George Monsour. George Monsour is the father of Michael Monsour, who on September 29, 2006, jumped on a grenade, which, of course, took his own life, and he was later awarded the Medal of Honor for his actions that day on a rooftop in Ramadi, I rack. I can't even fathom what it would be like to be a father to lose a child, let alone lose a child in war with those actions being taken. And George, along with Rose Ray, wrote a book

called Defend Us in Battle about Michael, about his life, about who he was and about his actions. He does a fantastic job speaking about Michael and the continuing challenges that he faces in his own life. I am going to shut up and let George speak for himself. Episode number 275 with George Monsour. Enjoy. I apologize up front for getting you an iced coffee. One of the first comments you made before we started was how cold it is here. And yeah, I guess I didn't realize that my love of ice coffee may not be shared from those who live in a beach area. You're much tougher over here. We're kind of pansies at that beach. Well, I tell you what, at the beach and iced coffee is delightful.

Do you enjoy them where you live at least? Yeah, I love it when it's like, you know, 70, high 70s, low 80s. Well, you live in California, correct? Yeah. So you love it every day of the week then. Yeah, it's a great state. It's just bad management. That is an extremely polite way to put that.

Yeah, well, I'm trying to be careful. Don't. It's the internet. It's the internet. We can say we want. I actually really appreciated growing up, the formative years of my life in California. I mean, have you ever spent much time on Santa Cruz or visited?

Oh, yeah, it's beautiful. It's beautiful. The people there, I'll try to match your politeness and how I describe this, really like to explore the space of personal expression. They're really, really on the front leading edge of, hey, this is who I am, and this is how I live my life. And you're all going to enjoy this with me. Exactly. You're going to love it whether you like it or not.

Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, I grew up in a town where my family had a long history. It was hard for me to get in trouble, even though I put forward my best efforts to do so. But when, like, the chief of police went to high school with your dad or it's okay. It smoothed it out for you. It smoothed it out. Like I said, my best efforts. You know, one of the things I appreciated most about California, though, was when I actually left and traveled to some other areas. because I realized how much I really enjoyed living there. The weather, the beach.

Actually, after my previous occupation, less of a fan of the beach, if I'm being totally honest. My kids would have to go and my ex-wife would ask to go. And it's just, I would equate it to being an accountant and somebody saying, do you guys want to go do somebody's taxes on the weekend? I enjoyed it less. But, you know, I did some time in Virginia Beach. mugginess, the 100 degree weather, 100% humidity. No, no.

Not for me at all. So the weather's better here. Well, the weather's different here. The summer months are absolutely beautiful here. And like we were talking about before, I struggled to get an actual accurate population for Calispell in the winter months. I've heard high 20s to low 40s. And some people roll in the whole Flathead Valley,

which is kind of like four cities. But in the summer months, you know, like walking down Main Street like you were today, lighter traffic, especially in comparison to California. Summer months, it's packed. Which, you know, if you have a business or you like a faster pace of life,

that's great for you. If you're used to the wintertime, it's an adjustment. Yeah. Once I got into, like I came into Billings and then just started coming through, but it is a beautiful state. Never stop in Billings, though.

Yeah. Do you know what they're known for? Methanphetamine. Really? I'm not sure, but I've heard people say that. That explains a lot of the help at the restaurant. Yeah. Yeah, I've been told don't go east of Bozeman.

Yeah. However, having said that I'm not sure the reliability of those sources that I got. Well, I almost moved 30 years ago. I actually almost moved to Missoula. Really? Yeah. Why were you looking at Missouri? We were looking at a casino, me and a friend of mine, we were going to buy one.

And I was down for about a month and beautiful. What month were you? It was during the summer. Yes. The key to Montana is visiting in the shoulder season or the winner to make sure that you're okay with that? Yeah. And we almost did the deal and then he got real sick at the end and we split up and he told me that he had cancer and he was going to die.

And I just couldn't believe him because he seemed so healthy. I thought he just wanted out of the deal. And like 20 years later, I found out he actually died of cancer. So it just rough. Yeah, I felt really bad about it. But anyway, I was looking forward to going to Missoula. The casino business. Yeah, I'm in the casino business now.

Really? Yeah. What specifically do you do in the casino business? I was hired by Larry Flint about, 20 years ago, I sold my businesses. Is this the Larry Flint of Hustler? Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. So I sold my businesses and I was kind of retired and he's looking for someone who knew the gaming business. And I come from a family of bookies. Ever since my grandparents that came over here, bookies, my father, Bucky. People are going to bet. Yeah. And so he wanted to keep a clean casino.

and someone recommended me as someone who knew the guys he didn't want his casino. Yeah. So I just basically kept the bad guys from establishing their business in this casino. What does that look like when you say bad guys? Well, there are guys that are good guys like our family bookie business. No trouble. We pay our debts. No violence.

We have a bad actor. We basically put a little pressure. Other than that, we're done with them. We try to cut them off with the other books. And then there's guys that are trouble. They establish a place for doing business in the casino. They bring in a lot of juice men. When you say in the casino,

are you saying like they'll take over? I'm assuming they're not doing like a brick and watering this. No. They have a presence in the casino? Yeah. What they'll do is they'll set up in the casino. the restaurant and you'll start to realize I'm seeing this guy every Tuesday for payoffs. And the people he's bringing are not the guys you want in your casino because like I said,

you get a book in there, then you get the juiceman in there, and then you get employees. They're starting to get indebted to these guys. And it just goes bad after that. There's certain favors they're doing for these guys and it affects the games, it affects everything. So Larry Ars wanted a clean house, and I gave him a clean house. He had, we really took care of it. It was rough in the first couple of years, but after that, they just didn't come in anymore. But I enjoyed that. He's actually not a bad guy.

I know he's got a reputation, but he gave me his word on me handling the surveillance department. and he's got two casinos so I oversee both of them. Still currently. Yeah, I'm getting out of it. I'm just working part-time. My wife got six. I went to part-time, and so he was really good about it.

He just died last year. Yeah, I thought I had heard that. I was going to ask. I wasn't sure. Yeah, yeah. So we used to have breakfast or lunch a couple times a month, just go over everything. And then obviously if you called me, I would be over there.

But it's a funny guy. It's wild to me that, you know, at least I don't know really anything about the casino business. I've been to Vegas a bunch. I will gamble occasionally. But it's just never been a huge interest to me, but I am aware that they have betting on sporting activities. It's crazy to me that in an environment where you could just walk up and bet through the casino that somebody would come in and try to set up a competing business. Under their own roof. Well, there's no juice if on a regular, like there was no juice if you laid a bet with us.

What do you mean by juice? Okay. So you go to the casino and they're going to charge you 10% Vig, which is basically interest on the bet. So if you bet $100, you're going to get $90 back. Okay. So what they'll do is they'll balance the books so that they'll put themselves in the position where they really won't lose any money. They know they're going to make 10% if they balance everything because.

Well, I have been told they build casinos on the winners. Yeah. Wait, that's not correct. Yeah. It's like, hey, guys, this is multi-billion dollar building. Who paid for it? Yeah, go ahead. You know what?

You are the person that has the key to that roulette wheel. You go out there and help them put a third floor on this place. Yeah, I don't recommend those games. We would go over these games and we would always look at a game and say, okay, are we giving too much? You know, you make adjustment in these games. So, you know, I think you can win in poker. My father was like rated in top 10 nationally at one time. So he made a living at poker.

And if you're good at sports in handicapping, I did it for 10 years. and I did well. Yeah. So the juice, though. So the casino is up front about the juice they're going to take. Oh, yeah. You see it right on your tickets. So what is the illicit bookie or the bookie that's trying to operate in the casino offer that you guys can't?

There is no. You bet a hundred. You get a hundred back. Oh, okay. So they like that. And also, when we were in the business, if we thought we knew how this game was going to go, then we would take a different position. say the, let's say the spread is five, five points. Or the, the Super Bowl we just had. It was

one and a half. One and a half points? Yeah. Who was favored to win? It was, the Eagles were favored. Okay. Okay. So, and then the over and it was, I think it was 51. So let's say we thought that maybe the other team was going to win. So we would change the lines. Because we could change the lines and we covered everything, we could give better deal. So what would happen is we would, they would get, let's say the guy wanted Kansas City and he'd get one and a half. Well, maybe we were going to give three. So his action would go to us because he got three points. So we could draw them in, but there were times where being so smart would lose $100,000. dollars.

That stings a touch. Yeah. And there's other times where we made an extra $100,000 because you draw a man and you were right, it was going to go the other way. Well, in hindsight, the Kansas City bet would have been a good one. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Actually, did they hit the over under too? They were over.

Okay. Yeah, yeah. All right. So, you know, it's, you're always trying to figure out gamblers because some of them are pretty clever. A lot of them are just, you just feel sorry for them. It's like, why are you there? When I'm looking at these players

upstairs, we have monitors on everything, you see a guy, he came, let's say on a Friday, he's up a million dollars. It's late Saturday. Sunday morning, he's asking if he can get a free meal. They cannot

leave, and it drives me crazy. It's like, I'm actually rooting for them to take that money and go home. What do you think it is that puts them in a place where they cannot push their chair back and leave? I'm assuming that they have some level of intelligence. Like if you're up a million dollars and is this on a card game?

It was on a, it was on Pai Gow. It's a Chinese card game. So you're able to count to play the game, right? You probably got yourself to the casino. And if you're able to count and you realize that you're up by seven figures, what is it that prevents them from pushing back? Or let's say you go down and you're at 750. And then you're at 500. Like that's still a lot of money.

Yes. They don't have, they always, I don't know what it is. They're addicted, one thing. Like truly addicted? Yeah. I'll see the same faces all the time. Is it an addiction to the game, like the actual whatever game they're playing? or is it an addiction to the unknown, that setting?

I think it's just the betting, yeah. They'll bet on anything. When I was a kid, L.A. County, L.A., they were really watching bookmakers. So as a kid, I would be the one that would collect and pay off because my dad didn't want to get caught. So I would get to know these people. I've seen them lose restaurants, their laundry business, dry cleaning business. Do you mean by that, like turning over the key? Yeah, where they just went bankrupt, just sick.

And I've even had, as I got, as I got older, I started realizing they're not stupid people, but like you said, they just, they like that action, and they just can't say no. and then they get in trouble and then they'll try to double up or sometimes what they'll do is they'll bet one side with us and they bet the other side with another book so this way they're going to win the problem is is the books are going to catch up with them and then it can it can end really badly we had two teachers that were doing that and I don't know who did it but they were all found dead in the garage because they had placed opposite pets all over town. Yeah, at some point you're going to come across the wrong group or the wrong character

and the consequences on that I think you're going to be pretty steep. Yeah. So as a kid, you start to realize that these guys just can't say no. And I mean, I'm a little kid and I'm looking at their kids and I'm realizing I've been collecting from this guy for a month and it's getting harder and harder for him to come up with the money. And so it taught me if I'm going to play these games, know your game and have enough discipline to control your losses. And that's what I did and that's why I was good at it. So you played poker? No. I play poker, but poker was too much of a grind for me. I used to have fun

in the Marine Corps playing poker though because you have... Boy, yeah, you're playing against idiots that don't know how to play. It was beautiful. I'm not saying Marines or idiots. I'm saying... Oh, I didn't say that. People come... You know, I've been around it as well. The card games are everywhere.

And let's just say there's a difference in understanding of how card games work. We're at this one game, you know, payday. Everybody wants to get in the game. And I had this one guy from Chicago. It was pretty sharp. And we were both in the game. And then you had the other guys. I remember this guy from Oklahoma.

and every time he made a bad play, this guy named Darby would trash him. And I remember kicking Darby in the leg like, look, I just looked at him, and then I said to Benny, I said, Benny, you know, that made sense. I could see where you were going on that. It made sense for you. All you needed was at seven in the middle.

You're so close. Oh, man. Me and Benny became good friends. I just, I felt sorry for him. I remember I started teaching him the game. And he started holding his own pretty good. But yeah, I would be that guy that was, you know, that's a good play. I'm not going to correct anybody.

No, you're trying to keep him in the game until you bleed him dry. The whole goal is to transfer his money into your pocket. Of course. And everybody knows how that works. Yeah. But, yeah, I used to enjoy it, but it's too much, especially if you're playing for a living, because you can get yourself in a hole real quick. So anyway, I just, I do mostly horses in sports.

I did very good on horses. I bought some race horses. So you could kind of, not cheap, but you could set up positions where you would race them and races were they're way over their head and they'd lose by, you know, 20, 30 lengths. And then you would take them to attract the better suited them. And then what would happen is they would win and they would win at 30, 40, 40 years. to one. Yeah, because of the previous performance. Exactly. And we would place our money. I had two attorneys for partners. And then, anyway, I would walk Vegas strip and I'd place small vets,

that's all the way down because Vegas at that time, they covered all the bats. So it didn't affect the odds. Oh, interesting. Yeah. And so, you know, the race, $80,000. Wow. Yeah. And that's on the $2,000 or $3,000 bat. Wow. Yeah. I feel like the best way to make your money gambling is on slots. I mean. Yeah, I recommend that.

I don't have the words for how shocked I am. And again, I am not an expert in gambling. And I guess it's more, they don't even, like, they used to call them the one-arm bandit, but I don't think you even need to say that anymore. because it's just this button. But we did a jihitsu seminar with Henry Aiken's at a, it was inside of a casino. It was in one of the large conference rooms where they laid out mats. But we had to walk through the floor to get to it, which was a little weird because some people chose to wear their jiu jihitsu ghee, which was out of place, but nobody paid attention.

Well, there was a guy wearing basically a duck outfit with a like a water wing in a wheelchair. It's like, oh, okay, this is completely normal. This is New Year's Eve and Halloween combined. Nobody gives a shit. Just do what you want. That's what I kind of love looking down at the casino and seeing the people. I mean, they just crack me up. But the tractor beam inability for them to back away from the slot.

And there's always people at the slots. And they literally can't stop pushing the foot and fasten up. It's a huge moneymaker. Like handicapping, I'll spend maybe, I used to keep records. I'd study about six hours the day before a race, and I would only play maybe two or three horses the whole day. That's it. But, I mean, I'd get it down to feet per second,

went into the stretch. But you really have to work at something and have the discipline if you're going to be any good at it. But I remember giving my wife a lecture. We're in a casino, and she says, I think I'm going to play the slot machines. And I said, okay, you can play the slot machines, but I'm telling you. It's kind of for fools.

You know, some people say they got an edge. I've never really seen it. Maybe it's true. What edge could you part? It's a computer chip. Exactly. It's random. Anyway, after her eyes rolled back after my comments, you know, I handed her some money.

And off she went. And just before she was going to start to play, I watch. over there to dig at her a little bit more. And so she smiled and she, at that time, it was a handle. The old one arm added. She pulls back the handle and, you know, she lost. And I says, you know, there's just nothing here. I go, I can teach you to handicap.

I can teach you sports. I can even teach you poker. Even Blackjack, which, and she smiled. And, anyway, the third time, a thousand and some odd. bucks and she's oh you're screwed she'll never listen to you again i know and she never did that's the thing about statistics they're all fine and well until you find yourself any of the good side of them or the bad side and you get a very obscured view yeah statistics actually are i think there's like something that burns in your brain that payoff and then you'll keep searching for it uh to try to get that

feeling again well it's i mean how many times have you watched somebody on a screen say they hit that thousand they'll spend another three grand to try to get it yeah And that's how they build casinos people. Yeah. But you can win if you really like, I remember one of the proudest days of going to Vegas. I brought my wife up with me and we were going to have a weekend and see some shows and go to some nice restaurants. So we go to check in. And this is out of nowhere.

I'm watching the games. waiting for them to get the room ready. And I'm just kind of looking at a blackjack game. This guy just comes up to me and he says, don't even think about it. And it was like. Some random guy? Yeah, but I realized he worked for the casino.

And he goes, you're barred and you've been barred. And I thought to myself, I haven't been barred for like ever since me and a friend named Harry went to, after we got back from overseas, we went to Vegas. And that's like a lifetime ago. It's in the 70s. And they still had that bar down where it caught my name.

And I was so proud that I looked at my wife's barred here. Georgia, I have questions. I have questions. The main one is, what the hell did you do to get barred? Back then, you couldn't count cards. And like when guys are counting cards in our casino, I just let them go because they're not cheating. Well, how can you tell that they're counting cards? Just off of the way they bet. Well, some of them are, yeah, the way you bet. Are they sitting there? One, two, three.

The key is to be, you know, be friendly, but keep the number in your head plus this, minus this. But back then when they were starting to hit, they were, even if they weren't sure, they were telling you get off the table. Yeah. We were up about $50,000. Now, back then, you could buy a nice little house. I was going to say that's a house for $30,000. So we're at 50,000 and we're feeling no pain. And I think Harry got a little sloppy and drew attention. And but it was funny because they handled a little bit different. They asked us to stay a little longer, you know, because I, well, I didn't stay. I didn't stay. I was barred. Harry stayed and they gutted them. He got invited to the shows and got to, you'll see the show girls backstage.

And he calls. It's a matter of time. They just want to keep you at that table to the odds catch up with you. That's exactly it. And they also were more stringent. You know, once they knew you were a counter, then, you know, they changed the shuffle. They would change the decks. Yeah.

To kind of reset your count. Yeah. Because they knew. I mean, you know, they know how to do it. But I got Barden, Harry tapped out his parents' credit cards. All right. Well, I'm glad they have a database from the 70s from two dudes who came in and were counting cards. Yeah, but I really felt good.

My wife's just looking at me, you really were born. I go, yeah, see? Hey, tell her, tell her. Anyway, they, you know, they gave us a nice room. And he still said they didn't want me to play blackjack. It was not a problem. I'm sports better. So it was good.

It's like, no worries. I'm going to take your money elsewhere. Yeah. And he also said, I was welcome to slot machines. Oh, gee, I wonder why. And my wife went, ooh, good. Yeah. Slots.

I could people watch for hours, if not days, the collection of, and I say the following without any judgment. We were there at New Year's Eve, and it was like the tail end of COVID, and there were people who had their mask pulled down just enough to get the cigarette into their mouth while double fisting Bud Lights and using the Bud Light can to hit the button. And I'm just sitting there like, God, what the fuck? And the room, I'd say those are God's people. Oh, they're just totally, like they're just memorized on the.

Tractor beat. Yeah, they just. It's unbelievable. Yeah. When we were kids, six kids in the family, and my dad was always looking for angles. When we would go to Vegas, he taught us all kinds of things. Like, you know how maybe your dad taught you how to camping or surfing or whatever? we had different classes.

One of the classes, when you go to Vegas, you go into the restrooms, and you take the paper towels and you moisten them, and you walk through the slot area, and you put the towels up through the throat where the payoff is. That's back then when quarters or silver dollars. And you just stuff them up there. Not a lot, just enough to slow the flow. and you go through as many as you can, you remember the rose, and then we'd go to another casino. And then if anybody stopped us, Gertie, I think, my sisters break out in tears.

And it's just, okay, just get out, get out. And then we'd come back after we went to, went out to another, and we'd rotate back, and they would go back and put our little hands up in those throats and pull the material out and silver dollars fall out. Because nobody really counts them that much. And we literally... Oh, so you're only getting a... You're just taking a little less...

A little bit off of all the machines and we'd fill all those buckets up. I did not get that lesson from my dad. See? He would take me to Circus Circus, though, and give me like 20 bucks a quarters and say, go play... Just have fun, care. The video game, and I would do that. And then for whatever reason, I remember there, they always had like a Lamborghini or something in one of those circular. And I would just sit there and stare at that thing.

And then go. and I think like through a quarter in the vibrating bed that was up there and like it was awesome and he would come up at some I don't fuck he was doing and like and it was great and my mom never seemed to mind and he had a good time and I got to play the shit out of trauma yeah and it's it's actually fun if a guy goes and he knows uh exactly how it's the same way when I'm in the stock market before I buy that stock I'm prepared and I know exactly how much I'm going to lose I don't know how much I'm going to make, but I already figure out where my stop's going to be so I know exactly what my risk is. And that's where you should do it in gambling. But they don't feel that way.

They all feel they're going to make a lot of money. They're all going to buy the casino. And then once they lose too much, then they try ketchup, and that's the kiss of death. Just got to remember, they don't build them on the winners, which is tough to do when you're 10 free cocktails deep and you think you're on a heater. Yeah, if you're a winner, They don't want you to be there. Yeah. They didn't build it for winners.

No. Yeah. Well, and that's where the stats generally are not in your favor anyway. So what led you to the Marine Corps? Were you the first member of your family that served in the military? No, my whole family. All my family came here about 100 years ago from Lebanon. And everyone served.

All the same branch? It spread out a little bit. Mostly Marines. A couple of Army, and my dad was in the Navy. Any Air Force? No Air Force. Good man. Because we're talking about the military, right?

For everybody watching and listening, that was George Monsworth that said that. I support that joke, though. I mean, that was like going to their bases. I go into Disneyland with all the stuff they had. You know how they build the bases, right? And I actually, I am not sure of what I'm about to say is true. but I have been told many times that what they do is they will build the runway last.

So awesome, BEQ or the bachelor's enlisted quarters, BOQ, bachelor's officers quarters, officers club. And it's like, dear sir, madame, we are out of money and you can't land your airplanes here.

We need more. And if you think about it, great strategy. Because they're going to have to give you more cash for the runway. I'm not sure that's true or false, but it seems to make a lot of sense. It checks out to me. Somebody tells me that.

multiple times and you go to those bases, that checks out. Yeah, yeah. So actually my father, back then they called it battle fatigue. And he really suffered. I still remember when I was little, I couldn't understand it. He would just blow up. Just like an outburst of anger? Yeah, just things going on.

Where did he serve? He was in the Pacific. a battle ship and he was in those big battles. Yeah. And his, I talked to a friend of his that served with him and he shot those, I don't know, the pom-pom guns or something where they're in a chair and they swivel around. I know what you're talking about conceptually, but my knowledge of battleships or even, you know, naval vessels is very limited.

His job was to shoot down the enemy aircraft and it, uh, it, uh, If he missed one, I mean, he just couldn't take it. It's totally depressed. And it's like it's not that easy to shoot out. And there's lots of guys shooting at the same aircraft. He always took it personal. And so he saw a lot of damage. And anyway, I remember when I was a kid, little kids visiting him in the hospital,

VA, he'd be in and out all the time. Oh, wow. Yeah, he couldn't hold down the job. That's why he went back to the family business. and became a booking and a gambler because he just never could hold a job. Did seeing that and your father make you hesitant at all about wanting to join the military yourself?

No, it's funny, it's like a lot of that didn't dawn on me. I just thought, okay, you know, there's something wrong with my dad. Didn't quite get my head around it until then I joined. Then I realized after seeing some of my friends the damage that it does with a lot of guys. What year did you join? 1969.

Oh, 1968. Yeah, I got out in 72. Okay. Yeah. So that's when, you know, I don't think we had, we had rocks that we would throw, you know, because I saw what you guys have when Michael brought it home and me. And my sons, both of them were in the Marines too. And we saw the equipment you guys had, and I'm thinking, man.

It didn't suck. We had like a poncho liner and a K bar. That was our equipment. We had that too. It was just way more expensive and much more high speed. Ours was made out of unobtainium and some rare Hindu Kush silk. I remember his brothers are looking at that stuff like. Yeah.

Yeah, there are some benefits to being in the special operations community for sure. Yeah. We get a hard time all the time about. black sheep of the family. Yeah. So embarrassing when we go to family. I know. Well, we have a rich lineage of Marine Corps service and, you know, Michael, Navy.

Yeah, I don't know. Don't even say SEALs, like, Navy. We would do that, too. Oh, man, interpersonal family rivalries. Some of my best friends are Marines. And it's funny, people think that, well, I guess there are people out there, maybe from the Marine side, you know, talking down to the Navy. and I mean, the Marine Corps is under the Department of the Navy,

and my statement is always the same. It's the men's department. But I have nothing but respect for anybody who puts on a uniform of any kind. I agree with you. Yeah. Marines are some of the most fierce and ferocious people that I've ever seen on a battlefield. The things that I have seen under them are unbelievable.

They are put into situations that are, you know, just... Hard to describe. Yeah. And you think to yourself, how can these guys, stay at it like that. I mean, it's, they know that they're in a real bad situation and they'll hold the ground. Yeah. I've seen them just hold it.

Yeah. And it's pretty amazing. So he did three years. What was, what was behind your decision to get out? I just, you know, they, back then they had the draft. Yeah. So you could go in for two, but they gave, uh, if you wanted to be promised an MOS, then you go for four. So fours is what I went.

And I wasn't a guy prone to go to war. I just didn't want to go into the Army. You wanted to have some control of your destiny. Yeah, exactly. So guys just scored high in your tests. And before that, I was at UCLA, but I just got out of a boy school. So going to UCLA and just coming out of high school. Oh, you went from an all boys high school to UCLA?

Yeah. And I didn't do well in school. That's really weird that you would say that. I can't imagine what your distractions would have been, especially coming from an all-boys school. It was, I had a nice Harley, and everybody was welcome to drive on the back of that Harley. Clothing optional. Yeah, exactly.

So I remember getting my first semester, and I remember the counselor looks at me, and he says, Can you say Vietnam? Because that's where you're going to go with these kind of grades. And so I decided I'd beat him to the punch. I went Marines. They promised me I could work in a warehouse. That's what kind of here I am at a San Antonio helicopter base. Okay.

So they always tell you once you can end the Marine Corps, you better do good on your scores because you're going to be a grunt. Yeah. And I didn't really want to be a grunt. my uncles were grunts in World War II and in Korea. And I didn't want to share any of those stories. They were, I thought to myself, no, that's going to be, I don't know if I could handle that. The stories that I've heard from those generations and the type of warfare that they were engaging in, not always on a daily basis, but just the type of warfare that those theaters offered.

Yeah. It makes anything that any modern era soldier, and I'm sorry to say this for the modern era soldiers, and I'm talking about myself when I say this too. It makes it, it pales in comparison. It is, you go back even farther, like World War I, Trench War I, trench warfare, excuse me. That's another one.

Excuse me, I'm going to blow a whistle that both sides can hear and then we're just going to come over the top. Is there another option? It's like when I read about stuff like that, I just couldn't believe. of the Civil War, the same, they just stand there. And I thought to myself, how can these guys do that? Can you imagine the emotional burden and the geometry that must go on in your brain?

Yeah. When that's your job and you realize you're getting ready to do that for real? I personally cannot fathom it. No, I couldn't either. And it's like, I still, when I look at some of those movies where I just think, you know, I don't know if I could have been that guy. I guess you just do it, you know, but still, you know, it's just a matter of time before that bullet finds you. And when I heard the stories of my uncles, you know, they were in the Pacific and World War II and then Korea.

And even the conditions were just so bad. And I didn't want to relieve those. I didn't want to come back and share those kind of stories. So I was thinking I'd talk about missing parts of the warehouse and going surfing at it, you know. But so I kept the scores up. It did good and got through boot camp. And then I went to aviation school because my tests were really high. And the guys says, don't worry.

You're still going to go to San Ana or I can't remember the other base. But both of them were in Orange County. And so I said, okay, he goes, just keep your scores out. So I kept them off. So went from a fixed wing jets, all that type of scores good. Guy says, he did really good. So now you can go to helicopters. Don't worry, you go to San Anah, helicopter base.

Get to San Anna base, and they send you a 50-cal machine gun school. Don't worry, you'll probably still stay here. That didn't work that way. Optimal word is probably there. So they basically send you where they're going to send you. And they keep you plugging away, get those high test scores. I don't know if it's the same anymore. I think they probably honor most of the stuff.

I don't know. That would be a total guess. I feel like they honor it sometimes. Sometimes. People who join the military just have to wrap their head around the concept of the needs of the military. And they have to realize that those will always come before the needs or desires, I should say, of the individual. Yeah. And that's just the game.

Like if you go into the military, realize that's the game that you're playing, and don't be surprised by it. And you'll probably enjoy the military experience a little bit more. Yeah, I don't think I appreciated it. I appreciate it as much as, like, the last year, you know, I was good. And then afterwards, I missed the guys I was with and just flying in the helicopter. Yeah. Just buzzing around. I really missed that.

And it took a while because the friends you have in the service are a lot different than the ones you meet in civilian life. There's just a bond there. Well, it's a community. Yeah. I've had this conversation recently. Actually, Mike Sirelli and I have talked about it because we just did a good amount of time together when we were doing the jump expedition. And we talk a lot about, you know, leadership and concepts of leadership. and we both are of the same opinion

that leadership in the military is actually one of the easiest places to thrive as a leader. And it's because of the community and the fact that the people are all bought in towards the mission statement. It does make it easier. And they've gone through a level of,

even in conventional military, you've gone through a few layers of selection to be there. So you've continued to put the foot forward in the direction, you're bought in. And so a leader can come into that and like, oh, I have a high performing team. leadership is amazing.

Well, go drop yourself in the middle of IBM cuticles, you know, and let me know how that's going to go for you. When somebody really doesn't give a shit what the mission statement is and they're there for their nine to five because this is their first of two jobs and it's like, oh, yeah, cool, you want me to do this? Yeah, have fun with that. Yeah, I had that problem in my departments, especially the younger people are, I remember I'm trying to tell this guy, look, your report is not, sufficient. I mean, you know, when, where, when type of thing. And I want to talk to you about this. And the guy says to me, he goes, well, I feel kind of uncomfortable. I go, you feel uncomfortable? I'm going to try to show you how to do a better job. And he goes, well, you're the director. And I'm not so sure that I want to really have a conversation with you.

Well, as the director, I'm not so sure, I want you to work for me. So I said, okay, fine. And so. a couple days working with HR. I brought them in. I said, Jim, this is Lisa. She's HR and she's going to process you. And I just want to, before I leave,

I want to just tell you that I'm feeling very comfortable. Have a good day. I like your style, George. Yeah, it is challenging and people should expect it to be challenging in an environment where not everybody's bought in. I'm telling you, looking back. what I used to do. And again, not every single person was completely aligned.

There's actually a lot of diversity of belief. But for the, if you look at it in the bigger picture, everybody's kind of pointed in the same direction. Not difficult to step in as a leader and move the ball down the field when that's the case. Yeah. No, you're right, because you get in the civilian world and everybody's got, they have their own problems. Some enjoy the job.

It's just a paycheck. It's a me over we environment, whereas in the military, and it's not always perfect, they strive for a we over me. Tough to replicate, though, like you said, in the civilian world. Did you have any? So you had other sons other than Michael that served in the military as well? Yeah, I had my oldest son. He was a Marine grunt. And it's crazy because he comes back and he says, none of them ever told me they were going to join.

Well, I was going to ask you, how was military service kind of framed in your front? family. I rarely talked about it. Yeah. They heard more about the military from buddies that would stop by and, you know, have a barbecue and they're talking, you know, and we embellish the hell out of everything, you know. Of course. You know. Barbecue, a few beers? Exactly. Add 10% to your story. It's perfect. We walked on water. Yeah. You know. So I don't know if it was those stories, but they all joined. Never a word that they were going to join. I would find out later. My oldest son, he says, yeah, I joined the Marine Corps.

And I go, you join the Marine Corps? And I go, why? And he goes, well, my buddy wanted to go in. And so I thought I would go in. And I go, well, what's your M-O-S? He says, grunt. You know, I says, grunt. And he says, yeah, my buddy scored really low in the test.

And I thought, you know, we didn't want to get separated. So I went ahead and said, I'll be a grunt too. That's not the move, George. No, it's not. Bon voyage, friend. Do better on your test. I'll go in their Marines, but I'm going over here towards the shiny object. Exactly.

His buddy doesn't even make it through boot camp. Oh, but yet there. Here he is, continuing on. Yeah, and there's something about my oldest son. He just, he's blessed with luck. I don't care what happens. He will come out of it just fine. And then my youngest son, it's funny, he had an athlete scholarship to go to Annapolis.

basketball or football. But he didn't want to do that. He just, he wasn't military. So he, he got a scholarship, played football, and then Michael just really got to him and he felt that he should join. So he went into OCS. And I remember some of my grandchildren going what's the difference with Joe going to OCS and Uncle Jim just going over to San Diego? I said, well, OCS, they learn to eat with knives and forks, you know, and they know what silverware and plates are. Oh, indeed they do. Because they're special. But, yeah, I'm proud of all my sons, obviously.

And they chose to go in. they all did a good job and now they're in the civilian world and they're doing fine. Do you know where Michael first heard about the idea of being a seal? Where did that idea grab him? I think he was hearing stories maybe because he asked me about him once, but he goes, what did they do? And I remember he might have been hearing sorts from another guy I served with about we sometimes would pick these guys up.

We picked up recon and sometimes seals, you know, you drop them off. Yeah, that's it. Helicopters and boats, super common insertion plan. Yeah. And so I think it's just stuck in his head. He thought, how exciting is that? Do you remember what age that was, where it stuck for him? Probably somewhere around junior high.

Okay, so early teens, if not slightly earlier. Yeah. And at that age, he was just coming. He was getting stronger and he was starting to, he started to really start challenging himself as he became stronger. And I think he thought to himself that would be a challenge that he would want to do. And he didn't say a lot about it, but he mentioned it maybe once or twice. And then we went to graduation his boot camp. and the guy, I don't know what they call.

Are they drill instructors in the Navy? I don't know. But he walks up to us. If you hadn't asked me that, I would have to tell you. I do that all the time. It was, they're not drill instructors. Yeah. Because that is a uniquely like Army, Marine Corps thing.

Yeah. What do they call them? I almost think it's like a division leader. We'll just say it's not drill instructor. Recruit division commanders. There you go. He's got Google over there. That's son of a bitch.

He likes to quietly call. off the road. Look at that smile. A smile says, I'm so much better. You know what he's actually thinking? He's like, I'm smarter than you. Here's the problem. We do jiu-jitsu together.

I'm going to beat his ass tomorrow. And as I'm choking him nearly unconscious, like, hey, Michael, do you remember when you were trying to show people that you're smarter than me, which he is, by the way, but I just don't like you when he publicly displays it. You know, Michael, you're not really smiling right now, and I feel good about it. But he is correct. Recruit Division Commander. So he comes up to me and he says, you know, your son did.

great and he's going to make a I know he's going to make a good seal and it was like what a seal and that's when we we realized that's what he wanted to do he didn't even bring it up to you until that point the only thing he said to us was because he heard the stories about marine boot camp and then he said to us it's embarrassing he says they gave us like a some kind of an electric gun yeah for their qualifications it's just so embarrassing for For us, it was, I think it was like an old school M16A1, but it was chambered in 22. Yeah. And we went to the range, which was an indoor range.

And I think it was 25 yards. So like you're shooting at micro targets. I don't think we shot pistol at all. Yeah, it was. But again, you look at what Navy Boot Camp is. It's an on-ramp to the naval service. Right. The special operations component of that is a fraction.

of a fraction of a percent of people who go into the overall Greater Navy. So I get it. Yeah, it's not really necessary. It's just for most people, they're MOS or NEC. Yeah, I think it's NEC in the Navy and MOS and the Marines, but it's just different. Yeah, I mean, he heard stories about

if you didn't qualify in the Marines, you were literally, I would be hosing you down in the mud. Yeah, that's not happening in Navy big camp. No. Yeah. I don't even know if it happens anymore in the Marine Corps. It was hands-on when I was in. They had no...

Oh, I bet it was. Yeah, they definitely. They choke you down. Full metal jacket, that movie did not create itself. No. And the fact that they, the drill instructor in that movie was supposed to be the technical advisor. And they... Did you hear the story?

No, I didn't hear that. So he, I forget his name, but he was a Marine, and he was supposed to be the technical advisor for full metal jacket. And the actor, who I don't know who it was supposed to be, I guess, was just really struggling with getting the mannerisms down. And so the director was... like, hey, you want to do this? And so he basically just threw his DIY hat back on and got after it. Yeah. I had no idea what it was going to be like. I just, I knew once you were a Marine and you're in certain situation, could be in some tough situations. But I didn't, no one, they ever talked about boot camp or really much of anything, because they would just talk about a couple of stories and they were

into the details and I remember you get up there and this guy gets on the bus and starts screaming at you and I'm thinking what's his problem and it just got worse. You guys, some of us have had a bad day, wake up on the wrong side of the bed, buddy. And I just, I was like, what's going on here? And I'm looking at, I remember you're going to get your haircut and they would say if you got a ward or you got something, put your finger. on it so they don't cut it. Shave it off. Yeah. And so and you're standing like really just right next to each other. All you see is the back of this guy and there's marching you through. And I started

laughing. I just started laughing. And because I'm looking around all these guys got blood coming over their heads. It's like if you're pointing out and you swear that guy just cut it on on purpose. They don't care. I mean, yeah. Even in the Navy, they basically were using sheep shears. Yeah. And they were definitely being paid not by the hour. They were being paid by the person they could get through. And it was just zip, zip, zip, on to the next.

Yeah, if you, I don't know if I would have recommended pointing you because they probably would have lopped your finger off. They didn't get a shit. Yeah, they just started cracking me up. And plus, you see these guys with all this before, long hair and they were tough guys. And now they're starting to have second thoughts like, what happened? Too late. Exactly. And then I also was surprised, I thought you would at least get, you know, minimum wage. First time I was paid, they told, they gave you instructions. You march in. You make a left turn, then a right turn. And then you send yourself in front of the desk of the captain, whatever he was. And you look straight ahead and sir, private monsu reporting for pay.

and then he will put the book in front of you. You look down and say, sir, the pay is correct. And then you stand in detention and they give you your money. And this is just for supplies and boot camp, you know, your soap and stuff like that. And I did everything perfect. I'm not a military guy, but I wanted to get some money. And I remember you shove that book in front of me and I looked down and I just went $32, $32.

And he says, where's your military bearing? I go for $32. And I spent, I spent some special time with the DIs. What they don't explain is in your first paycheck in the military, they deduct the cost of your uniforms and all items that they issue you. Yeah. And when I was in, a private made $98. Every two weeks? No.

Every week? A month. Shut up. Yeah. When I was in aviation school. in Tennessee, I gave a lot of blood because I think I got 20 or 25 bucks. Yeah. Wow.

Yeah. When I was a sergeant, 500 plus flight pay, that's it. So you guys, you know, this really stepped up a little bit. Well, things also cost more. That's true. You know, I tell people in the military is not a place you should go to look to enrich yourself from a monetary perspective, and it certainly holds true. You are not going to make a lot of money.

But I really think a lot of Americans, young men are missing out, even two years, just to spend some time. You're with all these different types of people. And there's a lot of things you learn just by being with these people. You know, you realize your differences aren't really differences. Yeah, you're defined by similarities as opposed to the small differences. Yeah, and there's just a lot to gain from it. And I feel like, I don't know how many people go in now, but not enough because... 0.05% of the U.S. population is serving in the U.S.

These young kids have no clue about serving their country. And I have these young kids working for me. And it's like, I got kids that think socialism is the answer. That's because they've never experienced socialism. Yeah, exactly. Haven't experienced anything. Go to college and then they come out totally scrambled in a lot of a lot of, a lot of the cases. So I don't know. I just, I'm glad that I served after I got out. I appreciated it more.

And I'm glad my son served. Was Mike able to come home when he was at SEAL training? Because you guys were living just up the coast, right? Yeah. Were you able to see him a bit while he was going through that? Yeah, he would come by. If he had it, if he could, would see him on the weekend. Yeah. Yeah. Which is, I mean, it's fortunate. I mean, I, even from Santa Cruz, I think, I drove home to Santa Cruz one time. We had a, one of the holidays had come up. I had about three days. And other than that, it was just like nose to the grindstone.

Yeah. And yeah, it was challenging for sure. Mike is a great example of just because it doesn't go your way one time, doesn't mean you shouldn't reattempt it. And I mean that, what I mean by that is he wasn't successful in Buds, his first time. And I, actually, a lot of people don't even know you can go back. more than once. But I think it speaks to the testament of who he was, that he actually dedicated himself to preparing even more and then going back. But how was that first,

how did that first failure impact him? My kids were raised that if you join something, like, you know, I want to play baseball. I want to play football. If they wanted to do that, they would not going to quit. that season. If they signed up for it, they finished a job. And that's where they were raised. And this was the only thing that he rang the bell for. And I remember when he came to me and I could just see it in his face. Just, I lost, you know. It's like I failed. And I just listened to him, really and he just talked to me but I knew that he was suffering because uh when he would when he came uh the week before I mean there was just blood all over the floor he didn't take care of his

feet get as far as the sand that got into his boots yeah so what happened they just look like hamburger like the bottoms are just probably chewed out yeah all the way all the way around but the bottoms are really bad. Well, you've got to add the moisture in there as well to your constantly wet, so there's no chance for your foot to really dry out and heal. Exactly. And there's just grinding and grinding. And there's just blood all over the floor.

And I said, you know, you got, it's a hell week coming up. And I go, I don't know, Mike. And he says, I'll get through this. But he didn't. He had to ring the bell. And I could just, God, he was so sick about it. and the next morning you wakes up and I make you some breakfast

and I'm thinking what happened to him you know and he says yeah I'm going back I'm going to beat this I'm going to be what I started out to be I'm a little bit smarter now I will take care of my body and I will be a seal and it sounds I mean that's a rapid turnaround

for one but it sounds like he really did take the two years with which he was uh you went to italy right sicily yeah it was good because he he uh he got stronger and you got his confidence back uh there's a picture of this uh big rock out in the mediterranean that uh him and his buddies who were also training to be seals they would jump off all it all a time yeah so uh which has nothing to do with seal training but i appreciate their headspace but it's like there's a thing on these guys. Yeah. It's a different type of person. Yeah, and Michael had it ever since he was young.

He would do things where you're thinking, what's he thinking? But he'd see a challenge and then he would see if he could do it. And no matter how many lumps he would take, he would do it until he got to where he wanted to go and everything, riding a bike, you know, crashing, making these these are. runs where you'd go up in the air and half the time the thing he built would fall apart before he even got to the up in the air and just he would just do this stuff skiing he was he just I don't know speed he was driven he was driven to try things so it worked out where he came back and you know obviously we're very proud of him but I wasn't keen on him

being a seal at all. So I was going to ask you, when did 9-11 occur in this process? Was it before he joined or did it occur after he joined? No, it was before and that was another one that he had in his really thought that these guys should pay. He was not alone in that. I mean, there were lines outside of recruiting depots in I'm sure small cities as well, but there's a lot of photos from like major cities like New York. Lines are on the block. Yeah, because I mean, that was a clear attack on our country. It was also a clear indication that if you joined the military, it was going to probably no longer be conceptual and be very practical,

especially if you pursued an occupation that had, you know, direct combat and their role in responsibility. Yeah. Yeah, that's got to be tough as a parent. So for myself, when I joined, it was still in the conceptual world. I don't remember exactly when the idea of becoming a seal hooked me, but it was about that same age as well. middle school.

10 years old, 11 years old, maybe a little bit after, but it was this, this magnetizing force that I couldn't shake. And it really shaped a lot of the decisions that I made leading up to joining, but it was peacetime. Yeah. And, you know, I joined in 96, finished Buds in 97, did two pre-911 deployments before that switch. But it was certainly, it was a different world.

It was a different math about why you want to join as well. Yeah. For Mike, I think that was one of the motivation. but it was almost like when he would hear stories on how tough it was, he was in. Yeah. For some people that will draw you in more. It becomes that, hey, you'll never be able to do this. When I was young growing up in Santa Cruz, this might shock you and people listening,

military service was not the norm. Not that it was. Especially in Santa Cruz. You were a murderer. Oh, God. To some people, yes. And some people just went straight into the family cult or whatever. may be, but it, for me, it wouldn't be uncommon for people to say, you'll never be able to do that.

But for who I am as a person, if you wanted to think of the most powerful way to motivate me, they just found it. Exactly. And it's things that people say, well, you'll never be able to do. And maybe that's not even intentional that they'll bring those things up. But what it does instead of turning me away from those things is it makes me curious. Yeah. I used to work my kids that way.

Like, I don't think you can do that. No, I don't think you should. I just don't think you can do that. And I would love it when they had come back to me and basically just shove it at me and say, I did it and I did it well. And it was like I got you. But inside, I was thrilled.

Yeah, inside. It's like, yeah, checkmate. Yeah, exactly. You're still playing checkers and I'm playing non-linear chess here. Yeah. Well, I would just, there's just certain people. they're motivated by it, you can't. And they are willing to sacrifice to get there.

For sure. Yeah. How was his second Bud's experience? I mean, obviously, he had some beta on what was expected of him. He knew what first phase was going to be like. But did he find the experience, I'm not going to say problemless, but was he able to navigate it pretty effectively given his previous experience? Yeah, I know he definitely took care of his body.

I mean, he came prepared. He had all kinds of stuff ready if that happened again. So he took care of his body and he did have an idea what was going on. And he was always the kind of guy where if he liked you, he would just help you out. Even if he didn't know you and he thought he could help you, he would. But as you make friends in there, he had a guy that just was a slow run. runner. And so when they were running, he would

lay back with them and just keep talking to him, keep them going. And then when they get to the end of the run, Mike would just finish with the top runners. And I remember Gabe would tell us these stories. He goes,

he was just always helping guys out. And that's the way he was. So he handled it pretty well. He didn't seem to have any problems. It's like he just knew that he was going to do this. Because I remember saying, OK, so you're going to ship over. And what happens?

If you don't get this, now you're at an MOS that you're not going to like. And he just looked at me like, what are you nuts? I just told you I'm going to be a seal. And I could see it in his face. Like, you're kidding me, right? I'm going to be a seal. And yeah.

Did he want to stay on the West Coast? As far as being a seal? Yeah. He liked the West Coast. because he had everything here. I'm an approximate to you guys. And so they give you a dream sheet. And I look back in a very comical manner that they call it that.

They have them in all branches. And I used to think, how do I get what I want without saying what I want? Well, I said what I wanted on mine because I was from California. And for people who don't know, the difference now in the modern era on the odd and even teams is just where you get your mail. They get largely the same training. Odd numbers West Coast down in San Diego, even numbers East Coast in Virginia Beach. I'm thinking to myself in second phase. Like I've made it through a pool comp.

Like the odds are not great at math, but things are, what is that light at the end of the tunnel? Perhaps I might actually graduate this program. They slide this piece of paper in front of you. Put down your top three picks. I'm thinking, okay, West Coast guy, 248. I'm going to go check out something on the East Coast. What do I get, Team 5? I'm like, oh, you fuckers.

So this dream sheet is exactly that. me dreaming and I'd be honest with you I think they threw him away the day that we filled him out but I was curious if he expressed a desire to go check out the other coast I think he would have went any place you know that they said to go it he just like being a seal yeah I mean he just once he got down in San Diego and he was finally a you know a seal he was living the life I mean he had his corvette he had this rocket ship motorcycle which I just I finally stopped writing it about two or three weeks ago. I had a letter from my insurance company that explained if I gave any more speeding tickets that they will no longer insure me.

It's best not to open those letters. I would continue to write it. And if you get a letter from that company, stored in the garbage can. Exactly. I appreciate you're still out there hauling ass on a crotch rocket. It's funny because I would just take it out every once in a while because I've always driven bikes. And it's not what I normally would, I like Harleys. You're going to say the crotch rocket is a far stretch from a Harley almost every way.

Yeah, but I like the speed on the bike. And I remember I was, I've been very lucky. And when I had been pulled over, just the expression on that highway patrol. And I take off my helmet and he sees his old man. Yeah, they think that they're going to pull over like a 20-year-old punk. Yeah. It's like, it's like, whoa, what do you? doing? I would just say, sir, continue on and have a nice day. And maybe back it off just a touch.

I told him, I said, look, bike just got away on me. I just, I can't control my right hand. I mean, I have always kept it in my son's name. I says, it's my sons. And I just, you know, started up to just, you know, keep it running right. And I, I remember 1.35 and he gave me a ticket at 90. It was a blessing. That's very gracious. Yeah. Yeah. That's going to make a large difference in the amount you're going to write for a check. For that particular citation, sir.

It was a good deal. But you really don't even know how fast. I mean, you go, but you don't know how fast if you don't look down until you feel the helmet. Pugging off your head, you know. My theory is you're riding a motorcycle appropriately and fast enough when you don't feel comfortable looking down. You've found the sweets I'm not recommending that anybody ride their bike like that

And if you get a ticket riding like that It was your idea not mine I used to get up around three in the morning And just take it down PCH What a great ride Drive from Seal Beach down to Newport Coffee and some donuts And then hit it again

Until the traffic started to get on the roads It's one thing I do miss about California Up here we have a very tight riding season And by that, I mean, you could ride your round if you want to, and you could also slip on ice and go right into the flathead lake. Because I, yesterday, almost ate shit just walking down these stairs and hitting ice. I can't even imagine being on two wheels and having that type of power and response. No. So we have summer months.

It's about four months. Well, I haven't really driven in the snow and coming here. It's like I had a nightmare going through Colorado. It was snowing. and big signs put your chains on. Yeah. I'm driving my wife's little Mazda, two-wheel drive. Yeah.

And it doesn't really work. But I thought to myself, well, I can probably do it. So I went through it and I really wasn't sure I was going to finish. I mean, you're seeing cars hit the side. Oh, yeah. You can't see because I didn't know how the salt covers up your windchel. I couldn't figure out, hit the windshield wiper. I still can't see.

Now I'm just close following these trucks, there are lights, and looking for a place to pull over and scrub my windshield. Then I get up here and I'm driving and I see those signs, black ice. You know, it's like, what? Yeah. Black ice. Basically means it's invisible. Oh, I see.

I just thought, wow, they're really prejudiced up here. It's a super racist sign. I mean, in 2023, are we really going to, Montana, good job. You know, we're going to need to find a different word. No, it essentially means it's invisible. Yeah. And you don't know it until you generally, what gets people, two things. They will put their cruise control on, which is insane in an environment where ice exists,

or they tap their brakes, and that'll break free the traction. And that's after going through Colorado, I actually kind of like baptism by fire. So I think I came up here in pretty good shape. I could handle a lot of the slippage and stuff going on and slow down. And I'd see these cars just, I saw one, he lost it and went all the way across the highway onto my side and then just crashed into the bank. And it's like, it's no joke when you see that black eyes. You know, you're like, and you can feel it.

Yeah. Yeah. And I started to feel it. I'm thinking, God, just get me out of this thing, you know. Lots of prayers. You've become very religious. You know, and then once you're done, you say, just help me.

I'll go to Mass every Sunday, you know. Before going to Mass, though, maybe hit a car dealership that's before Mass, and you can get like a four-wheel drive vehicle. I made a deal, and then after I got here safely, I said, I'll see you at Christmas. Thank you. Perfect. Yeah. Wow.

It's funny how we're believers when we're so frightened. I bet you there's a lot of people at the gambling tables who are making deals as well, too. Yeah. The biggest prayer is. just help me get even. Please God, help me get even. What a bottomless pit that must be. So was Team 3, Mike's first team?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the deployment that they went on to Ramadi, was that his first deployment? That was his first. And I remember some of them had a choice to go there or to the Philippines. Did they really? I don't know if they necessarily had a choice in that.

I bet. Well, or some of them got Philippines. Yeah. So the way in my experience that is worked, I actually was at SEAL Team 3 for my last operational deployment. And broadly, let's say that there's six platoons. They have to allocate some over there to, I think it's PACOM. So there was a platoon that went over there. But that decision is made generally above like the CO level or XO.

They're going to decide where it goes. The guys, I'm going to suspect, didn't want to go to the Philippines. Yeah, I mention it to Mike. I go, Mike, I hear you can go to the Philippines. He looked at me like, are you kidding me? These are my guys, Dad. Yeah. Or not going to the Philippines.

What did he think about? I mean, so in Buds, as I'm sure you know, it's a screening process, really. They don't actually teach you that much about the job. Yeah. Did he enjoy it a lot more once he got to his team? And he actually was being thrown into that operational element and learning the how-toes of the job? Yeah. I think he enjoyed just about everything except

what would you dive, did I call it skydiving? Well, it depends. So there's static line jumping where you jump out and it pulls your parachute

immediately from a lower altitude and then skydiving would be a higher altitude with the free fall. I think for this, for the first start was the static. Statically.

Nobody likes that for clarity. Yeah, he did not like it and I remember because it bothered him when he was in Ramadi, he was telling me when he gets back, he is just going to do a lot of dives.

He likes to own everything. Yeah. When he was talking, I was thinking the first time when I was up at Northern California, me and some buddies decided that we wanted to jump. And the difference is probably day and night. So we go up to this place and they got some old, I don't know, small planes like little Cessna's,

oh yeah. Piper's, whatever they are, and they got the door off. and there's this a little platform it's about maybe as high as maybe the bottom of a house the roof and so the guy said yeah go on up there and jump off and then you got to like binge your knees and kind of roll the PLF parachute landing yeah which is called a controlled eating of shit yeah so anyway me and my buddy we go okay we we do it a couple of times a guy who's Yeah, I got to be on a little bit more roll, a little bit more. We did a couple. He's okay, guys are good to go.

So that was it. So we got into the plane and they told us, you know, this is the shoot. This is the safety shoot. And going up and that was it. I don't think they do it that way. I don't think they should. So we're on this, we're up in the plane and we're crouched over and dawn's in front of me. And...

Did they have you hook a cable up to something? No. This was... No, they didn't do that. Oh, dear God. Yeah, it would just count to 10. Oh, yeah. What could go wrong?

Yeah. So, anyway, the deal was you, when the guy says, he taps the front guy on the helmet, like, we're going to get ready. And then he's supposed to cut the engine. And then he puts, he locks the brake on the tire. So you can step on it? Yeah. So you step on the tire.

And then you hold yourself on the... the wing support, and then you push yourself off and you count detain them and pull. So anyway, we get there and they hit Don's helmet, and then they hit Don's helmet. And I'm just like, Don, you know, now I'm like shaking him. What's going on? He looks back, white as a ghost. Call that condition black. Says pads are fine.

I'm busting up now. He's looking at me. You think it's funny? You know? And so now, the other guys have him on the head and I'm pushing him, you know. And finally he gets out there

and he's holding on and now the guy cuts the engine and he's supposed to jump and count to 10. Loud. And they says, just do it loud. You can hear yourself count and then you pull the trigger.

And so all we hear is one and then just screaming all over. Yes. Yes. Yeah, and it would just crack me up. And then, you know how quiet it is once the shoots open? Yeah, and it was cool, you know, we're like talking, and then we're trying to steer under the target.

And those parachutes were probably nothing compared to what you guys use. They might have been pretty similar, actually. It's not very high speed. Anyway, I hit the target, but Don just wasn't his day. He had a bobwire fence. That's basically the worst environment possible. Out of all the things you get hit under a skydive. Having parachute at barbed wire fence could be, it's at the top three of worst things.

Yeah, yeah. And it was, I don't know. It was just, he lived, but it was kind of a funny little story between us. And when we went back, naturally shared the story with the other Marines. Oh, of course. How are your conversations with Mike leading up as they were going through their workup process getting ready to deploy? They started getting pretty serious. Because kinetic operations in Iraq at that time specifically, you know, 2003, 2004, even parts of 2005, it was not very kinetic.

We were able to move into the country very quickly, but that curve of kinetic activity, it accelerated very rapidly. By the time they went over to Ramadi, it was, I mean, it was no joke. Most dangerous place in the world. It certainly was. Yeah. But Michael didn't share Ramadi with us. He just said Iraq broadly. Yeah.

And so he gave us the impression that he was going to be training troops. And so, you know, I'm listening thinking, okay. After he got there, we realized where he was at. But he still never said until we finally said, look, Mike, we know where you're at. And we know what's going on in Ramadi. because he had saved the Cowie. Yeah. And that story got out.

I was his second phase instructor with Cali. Oh, really? Yeah. Ah. Anyway, Cowie found my wife and told her the story. So then all of a sudden he was... I don't know if that's the move, Cali. God damn it, man.

Loose lips, sneak ships. Yeah. Did you ever see the tattoo he put on himself? Yes. And he swore to her, that is exactly what he. he saw. He came over for, we had a Thanksgiving dinner, him and a lot of the other seals. And he took her to the side and he pulls up his shirt and says, this is what I saw. Yeah. And it was like, just kind of blew my wife's mind like, you know, the whole angel thing.

Yeah. But yeah, he told her what was going on. Because he, that's right. So he got medevacked out of the country and came back. Okay. So he had the opportunity to meet you guys, talk about that. Yeah, because Mike's still overseas. Yeah, it's still over there. And we went for, uh, for, uh, Mark Lee's funeral. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, you know, it's funny, um, you think because you have kids, you understand the pain and you are just, you have no idea because you just cut you in half. Yeah.

So, um, did that change your? perspective at all? I mean, Mark was in a, believe he was in the sister platoon. Yeah. To Mike, did that change your thoughts or level of worry for Mike knowing that he was still over there? No, I was always worried. When I dropped him off in San Diego, I just, I just had this bad feeling. I remember on the way back, I called my son. I said, you know, I just have a bad feeling. And I go, I just can't, I can't shake it. Did you have that bad feeling before that day? Or did it come up as you dropped them off?

Yeah. And I just could not shake it. And I remember telling Jim that. And he just, you know, he'll be okay, Dad. You know, these guys know what they're doing. Yeah. You know. But I just, I couldn't get rid of that feeling.

And then when he called, when he was coming home in a week or so, And I was kind of laughing at myself, you know, you old man, but you're, you know, you're like an old lady. He's fine. Was he able to stay in communication with you guys at all while he was over? Yeah, we'd get calls from him. Okay. Yeah, which was nice.

Well, when I was overseas, it was 13 months and it couldn't make any phone calls. You wrote these, you know, you wrote letters. Well, you served at a time where the phone had been invented. Exactly. Yeah, I mean, those carrier... I was going to carry pigeons take a long time to get back with them. the notes tied on it. And anyone that come down, I'd read those messages.

It works. Yeah. Oh, wow. So for people who don't know who Michael Monsour was, I'd never cross past with your son. We served at the same time, and I got to Team 3. I had heard his name before. And I remember the first time I crossed the SEAL Team 3 quarter deck, which is naval terminology, essentially for the front door.

Right. There is, I don't want to call it a shadow box because that's not really a description of what it is, but there is a really impressive display that has some of the gear Mike was wearing that day, and his Medal of Honor citation sits on the quarter deck, and I can't think of a better place for that, actually, for people to see it front and center. Actually, I haven't been to the new seal compound because I knew they moved him down to Imperial Beach. I hope they replicated it there because I think it's, you know, It should always live there and be the first thing that people see.

I'm sure we'll get into it. But your son received the Medal of Honor for jumping on a grenade and saving the lives of other people on the roof of a building in Iraq. How long after from that call that you received from him saying he was getting ready to come home, did that happen? It was about a week. He called the day that it happened. But it was, you know, I don't know what time it was, three or more. morning and we couldn't get to the, I couldn't get to the phone in time. And he just said, you know, mom, dad, and you're going to be sorry you miss me. I still remember that. And it's like,

and that was the day. But before that, I obviously was in sky high that he would be home in a week. Yeah, you've had something to look forward to. Yeah, had everything packed up, he said. And then he volunteered to stay later because one of the guys' wives was going to have a baby, so he says, I'll stay. You ever notice good deeds, how they don't always work out? It's just, I remember in Marines it was that way. It's just the slightest change. Sometimes, just everything backfires.

I have absolutely no data to support it, but anecdotally, what I saw throughout my own career, And I've talked about this jokingly, you know, how I've served with my best friends and my worst enemies. Yeah. And I worked with people who I probably wouldn't have felt that bad if something catastrophic had happened to them. And I'm, I feel bad saying that, but I'm being honest by saying that. You know, we used to beat the shit out of each other in the SEAL teams because not everybody got along and some people need to get their fucking ass kicked because they suck. Yeah. But also, I would see the most selfless people who would always be. step up when fill in the blank hey I'm not feel I got it yeah hey my wife potentially going into premature I got it they would always step up the people who I felt were the most deserving and this is it's a clunky way of describing it but I felt that were the most deserving of having something bad happened to them they never did yeah it was always the

people who were willing to step into their place who seemed to be the least deserving of it that absorbed that burden and then everything they came from it. Yeah, and I worked the same way in the Marines. You'd see those, it's like I used to bother Mike where sometimes he would say, you know, these guys are seals and all they really want to do is tell everybody their seals, but they won't really sacrifice for the team. Yeah. And it would bother them. I would say, it's kind of that way every place. You've got that 10% or whatever it is. They just, they're there for the glory. or whatever it is, but they're just not going to be, they won't have your back.

They just won't. Human beings, I mean, again, I'm definitely talking about myself when I say this, but human beings are flawed. Really flawed. And if you get a group together, like you said, you're going to have a bottom 10% and a top 10% and almost everybody else just kind of floats in between. And I've always hoped, like, maybe I can trend. I've never been in the top 10% ever.

It's like, maybe I can drift over there a little bit. And then I'll go back down to where I normally belong. But yeah, it's true. There are people who want to become a seal because they want to tell people that they're a seal. Because it does open doors. It does, yeah. Mike was always embarrassed if he went out and his friends, he would say, we're going to go out, never ever say I'm a seal. He would never, he just says, otherwise I'm never going to go out with you guys, you know, have his friends that he grew up with.

and that was the deal because he did not want people knowing. Just wanted to just do his thing. It wasn't about the title. It was about the job. Exactly. Yeah. And then as you know, you get real close to some of the guys you're with.

And I think, I know for me, there were guys that I met that I think I loved them like brothers. You know, it's just certain conditions where you realize this guy will put it out there for you. and you would do the same. And Michael definitely believed that. There were, I think, the nature of the job. Yeah. And I'm speaking specifically about my experience and in the SEAL community. The nature of the amount of trust that you put into the people that you are there with,

you know, people throw the term family around a lot. And I don't know the answer to this because I've bounced it around in my head, not in comparison to my own family, but just the thoughts of, of what is family? Is it genetics and chromosomes that makes family? Or is it what people would do for you and what you would do for others? Because they're really different things.

And in every family, like in my own family, I go a couple of generations back and my father's father was a fucking asshole and disowned my father and the rest of our family. And I think if you go deep enough into anybody's family, you're gonna find something. I totally agree with. And so using that as an example in my own life, like if that's family, but look at these people I had no relation to who would have done the exact opposite and stepped in at any time, regardless of the question or ask that I have of them. And I would have done the same. Well, maybe that's family. And I don't know the answer, but it's the things that I saw men willing to do for each other, knowing for

full well what the consequences could be. I don't have the words to describe. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's what Marine Corps, I came to that conclusion that family doesn't have to be blood. Yeah. It's like, like you say, there are people

that will just sacrifice just because, you know, you're there and he's there and you both know that you're going to, you're going to go all the way for each other and you just get this bond. I mean, I've got guys that I've known, it's been like over 50 years. And most of them have passed, but I think there's only maybe one guy still around. But we talk and it's almost

like we're back in our 20s, you know, we're 18, 19 years old. It's just there. As we remember what we did for each other, you know. And it's just, it's just something that's, you know, family. Yeah, it exceeds my vocabulary and my ability to describe it. Yeah, it actually is hard to describe. It's this feeling, but a lot of guys know it. Yeah. You know. What, uh, how are you guys notified of Mike's death? Um, they went to the house. My wife, uh, as soon as she saw these guys through the window, how was it? Were you there at the time? No, I was at work. And, uh, She just said she saw him and she just knew. She was praying that he got hurt or something, you know, anything.

Lost arms, legs and anything other than dying, but they came and they told her. And then she called my daughter and then my son. They all came over. Then my son called me and he couldn't even get it out. And then he says to call Joe, who was in college, and I couldn't get it out. I couldn't say that Michael had died. I just couldn't get it out. And I couldn't go right away.

And I remember because I told a guy he could come in later and I'll just take over, help him out. And so I was stuck there for about an hour. I remember just phones are ringing and I'm just in another world. It just hits you. And then you finally go home and the kids are there and remember lots of tears. Then I just mean my wife, we walked into the other room and just put her arms around me. I could just feel the tears just soaking my shirt. and it was just devastating.

And I feel like in my own proximity to seeing the aftermath on the family, that it actually doesn't get easier as the days goes on because there's so many decisions that you have to make in the coming days at a time where I can't even imagine the emotional burden, the funeral, what needs to be done, who's going to do what? Yeah. Yeah, it really gets complicated, all the things that they're waiting for you to answer. And then you have certain types of people that find you.

And it's stuff you can't imagine why a stranger would put somebody down for dying in the military, making those little comments or leaving, I remember telling my wife, I'll answer all the messages on the machine. I mean, most people were just so good and so nice and understanding. So you had people calling you that you didn't even know? Yeah, they would find you. And they would leave these messages like they were happy that you lost your son. It's hard to imagine that people go out of their way.

I remember Michael's funeral. They had those guys on motorcycles. The Patriot Guard. Yeah, because you had these groups. Yeah, they protest. Yeah, that would try to upset a funeral. And it's like, what's wrong with these people? You know, these guys that serve, they don't pick these wars.

Yeah. They go where they're told to go and they do the best they can. It's just amazing how cruel people can be. But the vast majority of people were just sweet. And, you know, it was good to see. How did you guys navigate the time period from the notification to the funeral? Because again, the number of decisions that have to be made, I feel like it must have just been a blur. Yeah.

You know, compared to the Marines, the seals actually are pretty good about being there for you. I was stunned, actually. they really try to help and help us get organized and and there's something to the SEAL family

that I really really appreciated and they did help us on a lot of that you know I remember even a simple thing like a casket right and I'm thinking okay I'll just a metal casket

I didn't really care it's not exactly something you probably put a lot of thought into. Yeah, but I could tell that that's not the decision they wanted. It was a wooden casket. I had no idea why they wanted a wooden, but they didn't say make it a wooden. They just kind of nudge me towards wooden. Yeah.

And I realized on the funeral why it was wooden. So we could put their tried in. Yeah, I mean, it was covered. They even had them on the side. I mean, it was just covered. And it never dawned on me because I don't always, I don't know the way of the traditional. of the seals. Yeah.

But things like that, you know, they would try to like, you know, maybe, you know, here's another thing you could think about, you know. And then we weren't sure that he could be buried where he asked to go. That was in his will. In Rose Grants. Yeah. And, you know, finally there was a place and that was done. And just family was just kind of still not quite believing it.

and then he was michael took a while for michael to even come back yeah so uh then we went to visit them i mean i how was that i hate to even ask that question but oh that's uh there he was i mean they gave us a room michael was there and uh i went in first and uh a lot of tears yeah and then um like everybody else came in. Are you glad that you got the chance to see him one more time? Yeah, I am. To touch him. You know, he looked pretty good.

And it was probably the best thing because he still didn't believe. You kept waiting for someone to say it was a mistake. Or a nightmare? Yeah. And so I think it was good that we all went in. and saw him, and I think everybody just wanted to hold his hand. And just it was probably a good thing. When were you able to talk to somebody who was on the roof with him

to hear about what he had done? I don't think I ever did. You've never had a conversation? You were talking about before the funeral? No, I think it was years because I think, I don't have the friendliest face. I don't have the face that says, hey, come on down, talk to George. I disagree.

I would chat with you. Good. We're doing it now. Yeah. So they left me kind of alone. And I was angry. Which I don't think is an uncommon. Yeah.

So they were really sweet to my wife and to the kids. But they left me alone. So a lot of the stuff I didn't know until I started thinking about a book. And the book was really written for my grandchildren because they never really knew. They just thought Michael was a hero. And I wanted them to see that he was just a guy and he had problems like everybody else. So I didn't really get into the story until years later. and I would hear bits and pieces.

When did you guys, when were you told that he was being put in for the Medal of Honor? I heard talk about it. And this was another nudge. When people call me on my phone, if I don't know who they are, I never pick up. I like your headspace. You know what I've added to that? Sometimes if I do know who they are, I don't pick up. It's a bold game to play, but it's fun.

Anyway, I kept, I just wouldn't pick up. And so I remember, like I was saying, a nudge. So my daughter was notified that he was going to receive the Medal of Honor. And they wanted to give the message to me and to Sally. But I never picked up the phone. and so being a real hard ass information to George

I'm going this guy I go what the hell is he selling meanwhile the caller clearly says the White House

I don't know if I would have believed it anyway my dog is dad could you just pick that could you just answer that because she knew

they were going to call and I'm going you know what is aluminum siding what's going on and so

pick it up and then the guy the guy tells me so that's how they told us they just called me up since i'm so-and-so with the white house and uh you're going to your son is going to be a recipient of the mill of honor and um then the details came later yeah so you said that you were angry which i i can only i'm a father of three children of two boys and a girl so i just about say a little girl. She's 14 and sasses me at an uncontrollable level and she's going on about 37 right now. She's 14. 14 going on 37. Yeah. No, I know that. I tease my daughter to this day how what a genius she was in high school. I go, isn't it funny sometimes you call me about financing and things like that insurance? I'm surprised you didn't already know these things.

I'm shocked at how much I've forgotten since I was that age because I definitely knew everything. I I think it's just a sign of brain trauma because I can't remember all the shit that I was certain of back then. Those high school years were, my kids were pretty good, you know, usual stuff. But boy, those high school years were bad. Let's just be honest. Looking back, we're lucky we survived. We're monkeys with, like, vehicles and access to the internet. Oh, God.

It's a miracle we survive. How was, what would you say? I mean, obviously I'm asking you to speak for your wife a little bit. How was she processing and handling it? Was she angry too? No. My wife, she can't stay angry. She was just, she lost her son and she just, it was difficult for her.

I could hear her crying quite a bit. And, you know, what can I do? I hold my wife, you know, wiped the tears off her face and say, we're going to get through this. we did get through it but it was i mean even to this day i can start crying just think about it she was the same way it's just uh it's unbelievable and i started thinking parents who lose their children i don't care if it's an accident drugs cancer that pain just cuts right through you it's a it's a club you don't want to be in because your kids are supposed to outlive you

everything is just wrong about it and so it just you just ache I just constantly ache about it when you start to think about it does it come and go are there days that are better than others? Yeah I mean there is I mean it's been a while but things will trigger

I remember pulled over at a park if I'd eat a quick lunch so I'm sitting there had some junk food and I'm watching a baseball game little kids they're playing T-ball and Ben had brought back memories of Michael

I'm just sitting in the car crying about Michael you know so it just hits you out of no place and it's just always will and in a way I'm glad because I'd rather have those memories and

you know and some tears rather than not have the memories so I'm good with it sometimes I could burst out at any time people want you know it's wrong with this guy but it'll just hit me yeah i think the answer to that is nothing i can't i mean i don't think i knew what love was until i held you know my oldest son he's 19 now yeah and he's he's got a a beard that makes him look like a logger and almost every

time i see him i think of the first time in the hospital that i gave him with a bath with a sponge and i don't it's i mean i can't i can't fathom the burden that was placed on you and your family. Like what you're describing to me is it's not a matter of what's wrong with that guy. I mean, obviously people make snap judgments because they have no understanding anything. But I don't see how it could possibly be any other way. You know, it's funny when you said, remember your son, you know, when he was born, I think every father I have all those memories holding.

The first child was my girl. I, you know, and I remember all of them. I mean, holding them. I remember my daughter. It's just sweet. And my wife was exhausted. And I'm trying to, it was like the first day. I'm trying to rock her to sleep.

And I would just rock and rock. And she'd fall asleep. As soon as I stopped, I'd see these big black eyes staring right at me, you know. And then I'd start rocking her, rocking her. It did it all night until the sun came up. But, you know, you just, you still. remember them like you remember your son you just remember these and it's like you just it's like you're thinking this is really love yeah it's uh and it just grows as your family it just grows and you're

and then eventually you're going to see your children where they're independent and they're doing fine and i will just look at mine at a barbecue or something and i see now they have kids and that is the payback too you can spoil their kids and then throw them back to them my plan was to sabotage them so they always need me. No, you don't want to call their employers and be like, just so you know, this is the real deal. So that way they always have to come back. No, that's not the plan.

I'm not saying it's a good plan. I'm saying it's the plan. But as you grow older, you realize you're tasting that love and it grows. When I was young, I had a totally different view of looking at things. Oh, yeah. First of, time is irrelevant when you're young. Exactly. And I just took a lot of things for granted.

I think my wife civilized me. And then... I don't believe you're the only man that has that time. Yeah, exactly. Wives will civilize you. And then we didn't have kids for five years. I didn't want any. And I think she had enough of that.

And the next thing I know, they just started rolling in. It was like she was done being patient with me. And it was the best thing that never happened to me. Yeah. Because I said to her after the first one, I says, you know, my daughter's so sweet. I think kids are really going to be fine. But then we had three boys.

And your life is over. There's a huge difference. Oh, man. It's like I'd say to our, you think our kids have like mental problems? What is wrong with them? You know, daughter is sweet and clean and smart. And these guys are bailing out of trees. Yeah, there's savages.

Yeah, again, lucky to survive the age of two and anything beyond that as well. It's just, yeah, it's just, they're so different. But I'm just so happy that my wife knew better, and we started having the children, and now I got grandchildren. And I can be a different. My kids would say, how can you treat our kids so much different than you treat us? I say, well, I love them. Only a father can say that and mean it. How did Mike's brother and sisters handle the news?

It took it very hard. Angry, hurt, more along the lines of how your wife was feeling? Yeah. Yeah, I think I was the only real angry one. But, yeah, especially my youngest son, and they're super close. And it's still hard for him now, I'm just thinking about it. All of them, it's tough on them, you know. How was the funeral?

The funeral was, again, we don't we didn't know what was going on you know it's you know how that military thing is you know you can come over here we're going to do this and you know okay uh so the funeral was fine uh i i think we started something when uh when we just invited everybody after the mass just if they want to come uh to the burial they can all come and i mean i don't know there's quite a probably hundreds of people there. And I think that was a good thing. And then they took us to an auditorium or something.

And that was nice too. And that's where I met, you know, Mike Sorrelli and Doug and Benny and those guys. And I really didn't know anything about these guys other than I know they were there. And these guys are in crutches and are pretty screwed up. They got tears in their eyes. And I said to myself, you know, I'm ticked off, but why would I want to, you know, hurt these guys? I can be ticked off just me. And I really told him, I mean, I told Doug, I says, you know, I want you to live a good life.

And they got a second chance here. And they shouldn't feel, I think a lot of them felt kind of guilty. irresponsible and I told them if they shouldn't you know because what easy to hear and I think really hard to do it's probably a combination of survivors guilt or decisions that you wish you get made looking in the rearview mirror which you can't you can't invest that you can right and I didn't want them to have that guilt and my wife would actually communicate with Sorrelli's mom So she used to cry worrying about Mike Sorrelli. It's like my wife loves everybody.

Yeah. You know, and so she just really worried about those guys. And then when I saw them, when they stand in San Diego, when they brought the ship in, they had a little dinner and everything. And then on the ship, they just looked great. Mike, I was so happy. He looked good. And then Doug looked good. And it's a good feeling to see that those guys were fine. I don't know if I would use that word. Well, not fine. I think they're okay.

I mean, you can't make that stuff go away. It's always going to be there. You can't. I think the only question is, what can you do with it? And it's a weight and a burden that unless you're you are placed in that situation. I don't think you can actually you can describe it. Did you know that they were going to pound the tridents into the coffin? Not a clue.

It's one of the most powerful things I've ever seen or been a part of. And for people listening, I forget how they, who goes up first, but the metal trident has got three pins and at funerals, you take them off and place it onto the, the coffin and hopefully strike it not too hard.

People get a little bit out of control time to time. Don't need to hit it that hard. But at the end of the day, I saw pictures of Mike's coffin and it looked gold. Yeah, it was completely covered. I wasn't looking at the coffin. I remember having my head down just thinking about what's going on, you know, and then I heard the pound, boom. And then a boom.

And it was like I look up. These guys are lining up. It's a procession. Yeah. And it just really shocked me. And it was actually beautiful. You know, it's covered in gold. And, you know, there's, you know, people talk about tough seals and all that.

But guys that were with him, you can, there's tears. When he, when a lot of the seals were in the White House and, the medal was given to us and we're walking out of the yellow room I'm looking at these seals and tears are just running down their face so like you say there's things that that happen in our lives they're just there and you never really you just can't throw that out that they'll always have that and i know like Doug and Mike that's it'll be with them the rest of their lives it truly will be for sure after the funeral did things get easier or did they get harder because it's for a lot of people it can provide closure to an event but they're also not involved in the event to the degree that you and your wife and family were no it was good uh afterwards as far as um the the people stopped uh we had reporters coming to the house we had had people sitting on our front porch that wanted to write books.

It was really kind of chaotic with all these strangers, you know. And eventually it just, you know, our 15 minutes of fame was finally over, which was Michael's fame. But they're just looking for stories. And I remember this guy from the Times said, if you don't talk to me, I'll just make a story up. And that's the attitude they had. You know, their job is the right stories. And some stories were just totally incorrect. But what are you going to do?

It just time passes and it just goes away after a while. Did you consider an outside sprinkler system that you could turn on with a button? This is immediately where my head goes, George. Because if you didn't, that's a missed opportunity. I know, I was a fool. I don't know why. You tell you just said, that would have been a great idea. I could consult on things like this.

I don't know what it says about me. that that's right where my head goes, but. I just worked on an angry face and attitude. It seemed to drive them away. Where do you think that the anger came from? Were you angry at the situation as a whole? Is it even possible for you to pinpoint where it was directed at? I never thought about it until you just said that.

I just anger and I didn't even question why. I think just the idea that I lost the sun. Yeah. Just lost them. So I just, it was hard to you. think about it still is. Yeah, I can't even imagine. Oh.

How was it being at the White House? Was it, I'm trying to think, was it, it would have been Bush that presented you, the Medal of Honor? How was that? I've been on an official tour of the White House. It's as close as I've gotten. And it was at Christmas. There was an excellent gingerbread house.

I see. I mean, they traded just great. We had a police escort every place we went over there. We had the kids and grandkids and we kind of jammed up in a hotel. Obviously, it's not our world. But the president, it was a pretty nice guy. I remember when he came out, my grandkids have ran up to him like they thought he was an uncle or something and went and grabs him by his hugs his leg, you know. And he's kind of like, wow.

Secret service might have something to say about that, but okay. And they, the kids just got into that, that his office, the, and they're climbing on the desk. Oh, God. The button, his secretary keeps coming in. Watch this. His button and this is. A chocolate, please. Double.

And, you know, he rolled with it. He says that, you know, he's waiting for his daughters to get married and they'll have grandchildren. He, you know, he was pretty decent guy. I know that's a big job, and I'm not always on board with some of his decisions, but he treated the family well. And he said to us, this is where we should do our crying, if there's any tears to be shed before we go out for the ceremony. It's almost an impossible ask, but okay.

But we have cried so much. We're thinking, yeah, we're probably okay. And the irony was he was crying in the ceremony tears right down his face. Well, that's good. That's what you get for saying something like that to the family. Hey, we're going to put some boundaries on our morning. Well, I don't think he meant it that way, but he just thought, you know. Probably would be better back here as opposed to the cameras on it.

Yeah. And then he's there with tears on his face. But it was a nice guy, and at least to our family and real friendly. His dad's friendly too, I guess. They're a touchy-feely family, but they treated this really, really good. And it was kind of exhausting because they were there for two or three days. There's always a ceremony. See, this is the thing.

We had no idea when they says they're going to be this, but there's always a tail to it, you know. There's always something more to it. But it's just part of the deal, I think, where it's kind of almost like, we're going to do this for you and you're going to do this for us. Yeah, I could see there being an aspect of that for sure. Yeah. What did you guys do with the medal after they presented it to? I have it.

I have it. And it's just hanging in my office. And that's really it. Most of the stuff I have is in my office. I don't really have anything outside of there. I have other things, family stuff outside, but most of the other stuff is just in the office. Is it in like a nice presentation,

or do you go in with a hammer and a nail and just like one hanging it on the wall? Well, actually. I find it a pin and it's like, this will hold it up. I put it in, yeah, I was that foolish. In California, we had an earthquake and it's true story.

Falls down and glass cracks. And I'm trying to get someone to repair it right now. But apparently the way they did it, it makes it complicated. So, you know, that's another thing. I wanted to have the case fix. But I guess it's kind of tricky. And people have gone to said, now you're probably better off just to get a new case.

I feel like there's answers to that. Yeah, that's why I haven't changed the case. So I still have it. It's got a crack. And that's about that. Where'd the idea come for the book? For years, people kept saying, I want to write a book.

I'm going to write a book. Others kept saying that they were going to write a book. Because I didn't want to write a book. I wanted to be done with it. And I was talking to my grandkids, and they really didn't know a lot about him. And so he's a Navy SEAL, who saves them lives.

That's it. And I started thinking they should know that he struggled when he was young with asthma. And he was small and he was weak. And every time he'd exert himself, I mean, he's just gasping for air. And it was hard on him. And he just kept refusing not to keep going. I mean, it was like hard to hold him back. If he had a, if you thought he could do something,

He would try to do it even though he just really was too weak or he couldn't do it very long. And he was bullied a lot because you're a magnet. When you're a little kid and you're weak, those kids, it's like radar. They find you. It's like a moth to the flame. Exactly. And so they would give them a hard time. I remember once they pushed them into a school closet.

it and you know I thought that was pretty funny I just stuff like that would go and then I remember when I had race horses we were down to the track and I think he was nine or ten still pretty small for his age and he loved the races he loved the race horses and I was going to maybe buy another horse and so I says I'm going to talk to the trainer and And if you want to go to the playground, you know, you can go or you can stay with me and I could see him. And so he said, I'm going to go. He's going to go play with the kids. And anyway, there were bullies because the kids were little.

And so there was these like probably junior high kids just pushing the kids around. And so I look over and I could see they were pushing my call. and I just said, Mike, come on. And so he comes, he's got tears in his eyes. And I says, you know, they're bullies. You know what they're like. And I go something like sometimes there's just no justice. And he asked me about justice.

And I say, you know, it's like, you know, when you get what's coming to you. And anyway, we're watching the race, but he used to love to watch the race, but he's just in another world because he's so upset. And he just kind of bugs out on me. And then I says, okay, the race so wrong. And then he just goes, okay. And then I go, so wait here.

I was afraid he'd go down there again. So I'm talking to the train. and I can we're like on a kind of a balcony so I can see the playground and I see him shed over there and the three guys are sitting on the swings making sure that none of the little kids get on the swings and he goes behind him puts his arms around the back of their neck and pushes them off the off the swings it's like he was planning it when we were planning it when we're We were watching the race. He was 100% at playing.

Yeah. And so at that time, they had these, like, they looked like rocket ships in the playground where you would go up the stairs and then there would be a slide. And then you go up to the next level and there would be a slide. So what he did was he pushed them all down. And they came running after him. And he goes up into the rocket ship. And I'm thinking, what the hell is he doing?

And so as they're trying to get them, he's kicking them as they're trying to get to the next level. High ground is an amazing thing. Exactly. And then he goes to the next level. He's got him up there. And then when you can't hold him off any longer, he hits the slide. And down he goes. I'm standing, you know, maybe 30 yards, 40 yards away. And he comes out of that slide, just running. A huge smile on his face, just running and running. And I mean, I got my handout. And he, I got my hand out. And he just hits my hand and he literally swings like that. Now the other guys are coming and they get close enough. And then they see me and I says, disappear.

And they just go off, you know, call it, you know, with their typical calling names and stuff. Michael's still smiling. We go to the car to go home and he's still smiling. And he looks up at me and he goes, Dad, I think that's justice. He smiled all the way home. But that's when I realized he's finally. a way to go after bullies. He doesn't have to be the strongest guy, but he will be the smartest guy.

And he started going after these bullies, things like that. Or he would start debating them. You know, they want to be wise guys. He's a very smart guy. And he would trash him verbally. And as he got stronger and more and more against these openly against bullies, he started having friends because they knew that he would have, their back. And I wanted my grandchildren to know this is the kind of uncle you had. He believed in

things. He would fight for things. And he wasn't afraid to lose. I mean, sometimes he'd come home pretty banged up. And I'd say, what happened? Nothing. Well, I know something happened. But he was that kind of guy. And he's, I wanted them to see he would fail, just like he failed being a seal. They didn't even know he failed being a seal. The idea is. is for them to know you're going to live a life and it's not going to be easy. Life's tough. You're going to fail. You're going to win. It's what happens. When you fail, what do you do about it? Do you continue to fail or do you regroup and do it again if that's truly what you want? And I had a daughter who was complaining. She just got in the boot camp and she read the book.

and she says, I'm just so glad I read the book, and I feel like such a baby. I feel like she used a different word. Yeah. So, you know, and then I'm thinking it would probably be good for a lot of young people or even guys who were in the military, they can see how the seals and the sacrifice they make.

So that was kind of why, you know, I put it together. and people should just know that all of our lives at one point are tough. It's what you do the way you handle those losses. And that's kind of why you put it together and you hope people see the message. That story you just told on the playground, I think you watched a paradigm shift in your son's head that stayed with him for the rest of his life. Exactly.

Like a monumental shift in thought process that changed the trajectory of his life for the better. Yeah. I thought to myself, he's drawing a line. He's not going to just take it. He is going to fight back. And he's going to take his chances. They could have got him. His man may not have worked.

But he was willing to risk it. And once he was successful, he was on board. for taking care of Mikey and all the other ones. Those little kids were like, they were like screaming. Yeah. Yeah. Go. They had found their champion.

Exactly. You know, so you're right. That's exactly what happened to him. And he just, he just, that's the way he believed. And he was that way the rest of his life. Did you find it cathartic and maybe. help you find some level of closure or put some of the burden down by writing the book?

It was kind of a... It was nice when I put some stories when he was young. And, you know, I think I am responsible for his loving of speed because I would... I used to drive a little fast. There's probably some accuracy to that statement.

Yeah, it was probably... And so I can see where... He kind of liked that excitement. But when I got into, so that was nice to kind of remember that. But then when I got into the seal stuff, I actually learned a lot more than I even thought. I had no clue, basically, of some of the stuff he was doing. And, you know, the chapter where he dies, that was, it was pretty sick. temple.

Probably could have done more details, but that was a hard chapter for me. I don't think you needed more details. Yeah. You know, in talking with Mike, every time I've heard him describe it, he describes it as an act that he doesn't have the words to describe. Yeah. The heroism and the lack of hesitation. I remember him telling me that. He told me that he goes, he told me he goes, Mike.

literally focused. He knew exactly what he was doing. And he said, the door was right there for him. He chose not to take it. And I still remember him telling me that. But that's all I really knew about it. I didn't know who else was up there other than Doug. I didn't know the circumstance, really.

Yeah. And you know, you also start thinking that these guys They're in this city where, I mean, they are not welcome with a lot of these people. And you've got these guys telling through the microphones where they're at. You're surrounded. And it's a tough way to be. And even their living situation was rough. And these guys are just doing what they're supposed to do.

They don't feel sorry for themselves. they do their job, and Americans sit here and talk about the tough times they have. I read Michael's emails after he had passed, and I was surprised. So many of his friends that weren't in the service were literally crying to him about how tough their life was because their girlfriend left them or they're having a tough time in their classes, and Michael would send back, you know, total support. Oh, I know this is tough, but just stay with it. It's like never did they ask how he was doing.

They just cried on his shoulder. Yeah. They don't understand what you guys go through. Well, there's two ways to take that from the person, you know, listening to somebody complaining, I ordered an iced mocha. And this is hot. I wanted a hot drink. Again, I apologize.

I hopefully you have developed. Never will I forget. Yes. Hopefully you haven't developed hypothermia since we've been talking. I ordered three pumps of hazel night in my mocha. And I got, well, there's two ways from somebody, you know, like Michael, who can take that information. You can, you can, the initial response that I think a lot of people have would be to jump down that person's throat. Like, hey, why don't you shut the fuck up?

Yeah. Because here's what I'm dealing with. And I don't know which one is right or I don't want to put a value on either. But the other one is that you can be really. grateful that they live a life that is so comfortable that they think that that is catastrophic. Because the reality is, if you've never actually put your toes on the line and been willing to sacrifice everything that you have so somebody can make that complaint, you'll never understand it.

With that, though, you'll never be able to explain it to somebody who hasn't experienced it themselves. So you have that choice. You can respond with anger and frustration or you can respond with empathy. Let me be very clear. I've done a lot of both. I don't have a perfect track record when it comes to this by any stretch. But what I've learned is that you'll shut people off if you respond with anger

and you have a chance to nudge people in the right direction if you respond with empathy. And that is a lesson that I learned through a lot of mistakes in responding improperly. Well, maybe that's what he was thinking because, all of his emails were you know i've got your back anything i can do that just speaks to the character of your son how you and your wife raised him um it it wasn't something that i understood until much later in my life you just cannot i mean imagine if he had tried to explain over email what he was yeah like that's that's not a medium it's just like right over the top of your head yeah or able to fall short it'll have whatever metaphor that you

one used to describe it, but the fact that he was where he was and doing what he was doing and still there as a shoulder for people to be able to put more weight on, I mean, that's a testament to you and your wife. Well, I don't know what, I don't know if I did anything. My wife, I don't know. I don't know. It's like I've been blessed with four kids and life's like a numbers game being a gambler. And I would think, okay, I got four kids, which one goes bad on me? You know?

It's just odds. Somebody. Bad's relative, though. There's going to be a bell curve and the kids too. There's going to be one, yeah. Even with my three. Trust me, there's a bell curve. And that bell curve really changes depending on the topic.

It does. That's true. It's like they're so different. They're just, they're a puzzle, you know. You're just trying to get them where they'll be self-sufficient one day and get them from protect them especially with boys from doing something that may affect their whole life that is a true statement george definitely worried about that yeah i just need to get them to a place where their actions are legally their responsibility and not mine

that should be the goal of any parent nurturing what no no no you're 18 now you say like don't blame me he's 18 yeah yeah he's an adult clearly on paper yeah i don't think a lot of 18 years are really adults. No, I think that's one of the dumbest legal definitions that we put out there. Oh, so yesterday you were 17 and 364 days. Boom, you're an adult.

Boom, today. Yeah. It makes no sense. No, the data is in. I mean, the frontal cortex of the adult male brain, we need our mid-20s to let that sort of self out. Yeah, and it's so true, but it's just, it's like I've got young people working in their 20s

in. No, they're not really adult. They've got a long ways to go. Oh, for sure. It's an arbitrary number with an arbitrary data associated. Yeah, I think a lot of life experience is really what brings you up to an adult level, not just a number. I agree. When did you guys hear that they were going to build a ship at Mike's owner? We heard Secretary of Navy when we were there, we're at the Pentagon.

on. Before that, while you were there for the middle of the law. Yeah. And he says, he said, I would like to name a ship after your son. And we're thinking, you know, okay. It was like, oh, you know, whatever. It wasn't like a for sure thing. Yeah.

It was just thinking he says, you know, I'd like to put your name in. And it's like, okay. I'm not so sure we would wanted it if we would have known all the, the traveling and all the stuff that my wife would be roped into doing. It was 10 years, I think. Really? Yeah, it was 2006. They told us, and I don't think that ship was done probably more than that.

Just a couple of years ago, it finally was all settled in San Diego. It was good, and sometimes it was exhausting. What kind of stuff were they asking your wife to do? where you show up to, even there's some photos in there where you do a weld thing or a lot of tradition that we're told. You know, the Navy, it just reeks in tradition. Steeped in tradition for sure. Yeah. And it's like, what, what?

You know, when you're a snuffy in the Marine Corps, you don't even know about these types of traditions. You celebrate Marine Corps birthday. Let me tell you, if you're in the Navy, you don't know about the traditions either. Yeah. And it's like there's another tradition, another tradition. And it's like, okay, pack up and go to that, pack up and go to that. It's okay. Just take a couple days off, you know.

Civilian life doesn't always work with military life. They forget that we can't just have a ceremony without, you know, really making a lot of changes to be able to get there. So it was a long process. And then, you know, that ship had a lot of problems. And the design and build. And the design, yeah. I think they've worked out all the bugs, but also I think they've changed the mission of the ship a couple times too. But Scott, who was the captain, he did a great job.

And I truly thank him for the work he put in the whole thing on the ship. We asked that the ship kind of have seals. represented. So we had, I don't know if they still have it, but every time we visited it, they had the ship, the seals that had passed on that ship. So there's a display of seals

that have lost their lives over this war. I suspect they have not taken that. Yeah, I don't think they would. Because I says, I go, you know, it should be a ship for the seals, you know. Of course, it's like it's a Navy. I know, but if you're going to have Michael there, seal than the other guys that lost their lives. Are they really less? No. So we wanted them on that ship,

and they put it, they put it up, which is, I think it's nice. And I think when they, when the seals went and visited the ship, I think they're pretty happy to see that. You know, they have something with Michael, but, you know, it was just nice that those, those seals are not forgotten. Well, I don't think there should of course ever be a value placed against is one life worth more than the other because I don't even think that's an argument that could be had. But there is a difference between the actions that your son took and the actions oftentimes that would have taken the lives or the other seals. There is a difference and I'm glad that they recognize it. Yeah. I mean, I understand that, but still these guys lost their lives. They're out.

there you know and the pain is the pain for their parents for their friends so I just wanted them to be remembered they go with that ship and they're there too other than that I offered to let them take Mike's Corvette and like bolt it to the to the bulkhead is memory probably would have shot it into space for you because I think he did send a convertible into space so that's not a loss cause just yet maybe he'll do round two of that because that would be pretty sweet too. What's not in the book that you would want people to know about your son?

Well, I hope when they read the stories that they will know what a giving person he was. If he had something and his friend didn't

have it, he would either share it with his friend or he literally would give it to his friend. He was just that, he was so generous. And he was always cool. Things, you'd see people blowing up over something. And he just would take it, never lose his cool. And he would adjust to it.

He would either fix it or he would make some adjustment. He wouldn't storm off and lose his temper. He's very good about that where you would think, you know, most people, would be really ticked off and they'd hold a grudge or this that he could hold a grudge but it would be no big deal it'd be like you know I don't trust this guy he wouldn't run around bad mouth than anybody it's just something about him it was like always pretty calm and he it's hard to understand them sometimes the way he would take bad news and I know it would hurt sometimes but he would just

you know, he knows life is tough. And he felt better helping people. He got more pleasure out of helping some of his friends. Like we lived in a high end area at one time. And then I just went belly up. I had IRS. I had everything. So he moved down.

And I mean, our neighbors are doctors and lawyers. So I moved down to this other part down. down in Garden Grove and it wasn't a good area. And it was good for my kids because they saw the other part of the world where they were around kids who didn't have a lot. And it was just a whole mix of different nationalities in Garden Grove.

And it's a city that we really like. There are lessons to be learned there. And my kids definitely learned a lot of lessons. It's just, and Michael just thrive there. Some of his friends were just so poor, and one of them is a doctor today. So it's another thing that, you know, just because you're here doesn't mean you can't be someplace else with enough work and determination. I remember he was in the classes for the kids that were smarter than the others, right? And I would say, Michael, how do you like your class?

What's going on? And like I said, the area was so mixed. I remember his comment was, nope, they don't speak English. And I said, well, that's okay, Mike. You know, eventually you'll make more friends and you'll be able to communicate with the kids you're in class.

And he goes, oh, I'm talking about the teacher. That's the kind of neighborhood we were in. No, but my kids learned that they can live any place. They can have things or they can have things. They know how to live in this world. And it was a great experience. I mean, when we moved in, we didn't even have a bathroom. I made a deal with the guy because I was totally belly up.

And I says, look, let me rent this place and I'll get it livable. Just let me get going. I put the bathroom in. We got things working. And we stayed there until we got back on her feet. So it worked out great. And they had a real, real life experience where they were around so many different nationalities, so many different languages.

And my kids thrive there. So. I think kids thrive in adversity. Yeah, I think one of the worst things you could do as a parent is just kind of pad the world around them. Yeah. It's like when I remember my daughter said, hey, dad, I was with sewing. so, I don't remember her name, but her parents were lawyers. And they just say that they want their daughter to be happy. And she's looking at me, how come you never see that? Well, as long as you

live it with me, you're never going to be happy. But I started thinking that is a tragic thing. It is. Because the kids, if they're always trying to be happy, when real life hits them, they're not going to know what to do. And I said I would prefer that you guys grow up to be good. I go, it's a simple word, but it's very difficult to be because good means you're going to do some things that because you have to do the right thing, it's going to hurt you.

So if you understand that, you'll be better off, but you will have to make sacrifices sometimes to do the right thing. Not everything is to make you happy. And she didn't like that. But she's done fine. What do you want for yourself for the life that you have left? I'm good. Oh, man, I don't know if I get this out.

I lost my wife in July. And I don't think there's anything really that I want. I told you something's going to hit me in this conversation. How could it not? What do you look forward to the most, spending time with your grandkids? Yeah, I mean, I drove out here just to spend time with them. This was an add-on. I might not have been the best ad-on trip.

My apologies. I don't have a lot that I'm looking for. I live super small. I got a little conduit down at the beach. And it's a huge change in my life. Still hurts. I think the only good thing I've done really is fulfilling my promise to my wife

that she would die because we had downgraded and we were going to start traveling. So we have a house in Oregon, and so we thought between the beach and Oregon and then just traveling was what we were going to do. We would be good, and then she got sick, sick for about a year, and then the last six months was she had pancreatic cancer.

And all she cared about was that she wanted to die in the house, and I would be with her. And so that's why I went on with part-time job. And I just took care of her. And she wanted to sleep in our bed. So I would, after a while, she couldn't walk anymore. And I couldn't keep her in the wheelchair. She just slide out of it. So I'd be carrying her to the bed in the evening,

and then I'd carry her and put her in the hospital bed in the living room where she could, you know, watch some TV or something. But you just watch your wife. You get sicker and sicker. It's hard. And eventually she couldn't talk anymore, and we just would, you know, hold each other's hands and we'd kind of communicate with our eyes.

and just keeping cleaning her and carrying her to the restroom. And if anybody ever does that, decides to do that, it is difficult. Yeah. It is so difficult. And then the day comes. And I thank God I was there. And I was with her that morning and just sat with her.

her and I just she didn't sound right wasn't breathing right and then just face to face and eventually her eyes closed and she let go on my hand so as far as my future I don't care too much anymore I think I just sit around that's why I like to travel now I just get in the car but I just bounce around in the house anyway I don't have a lot of big plans. I have a charity that I got involved with. I'm trying to help teenagers, you know, learn trades, things like that. But I had just been out of it for the last year.

And hopefully, I'll get back to it. It's for anybody that's married, you have no idea. I was married for no self for over 50 years, 49 years married. and it is hard and you will not realize how much you love your wife or your husband until that day comes so there's just a word for anybody listening to this story take care of your spouse because the day will come and I really thought I would be the first one to go since I haven't seen the doctor for 50 years I was just we were just shocked

that she had cancer and it was a lot of tears and I kept telling her she'll be fine and she kept telling me no all the way up until the last month is when I finally realized I mean

intravenous feedings every night it was just a lot of hard work and I really wish I could have done more George, I don't think there's anything else you could have done more. I mean, I hope that you can even begin to fathom how much what you did meant to her. Like, I don't know if a lot of people will find love to that degree. I think a lot of people would probably say that love at that level isn't even possible anymore,

but I can only imagine the things that you were there for and able to do and what that meant to your wife. Well, she thanked me many times that I was there for. So your question, when am I going to do? Probably not much. I don't have anything on the list. The problem is I think about my wife. It's like I can't, I think about Michael. I'll think about Sal.

Think about Sal, I think about Michael. So I'm pretty pathetic. That is not the word that I would choose. You have been dealt a hand that I think would crumble most people. I'm sure I'll get through this, but there's a loneliness. It was like I was thinking on this trip how much we used to enjoy just going to crazy places. And I enjoyed the trip. I like just, you know, what's around the band type of a thing and talking.

into people, coffee shop, or just small talk. But Don, Domi, there's no more joy because I don't have anybody to share it with. So there's just no joy. And it just hits you. Well, I would hope that there would be a time limit associated with their not being joy. I do think that you, it is possible,

that you could find a way to experience joy, but you'll never get those things back, obviously, that you've lost. Yeah, I mean, joy comes with sharing it. So I don't know. I just kind of figure at my age, this is probably going to be it. I'll get back involved in maybe some charity work. I mean, that's another reason. If money is made in the book, that's where it's going to go.

That'll keep me busy. And also, you know, maybe do something. some good because I have everything. I mean, my places are paid for. I don't have any real problems. I drive an old 25-year-old Jeep. That's how, you know, I just don't live, do anything special. I just live a pretty simple life. And I'm good with that as long as I can, you know, I got to eat well and really do what I please. I'm pretty happy. She's just, I got to get over this and I don't get back to doing some of the stuff I was doing in the past. It'll take a while.

I'll get through it. It's harder because with Michael had Sal. Yeah. You know? And now it's, in fact, she was buried with Michael. So it was kind of another thing she wanted. And so she's right there at Rosecrans with him. I think that's a special thing for both.

with them. Yeah. I was one of the main things was I wanted to be buried with Michael and they okayed it and it was it was nice real simple but it was very nice. Where do you travel to take you next? Other than to the car dealership to get a full-wheel drive vehicle, obviously. We've discussed this. I will provide you directions in either direction that you'd like to go. Just tell me the model of car you would like. Well, I'll probably, that's her car. So I drove it because I think. I thought I'd save on gas, which I would have because that Jeep's a monster. But I'll probably just put it back in the garage and just drive my old Jeep. Where will you go from here, though, from Calispo? What do you have planned?

I'm going to go down to, I think I told you I was in Oregon at the time. I was looking just checking out the house. I can sure it was still standing. I think I'm going to go down to maybe Vegas. I've got some tickets I want to cash. Thank you, Kansas City. So, yeah, it was a good day. Yeah, it was a good day.

Yeah. So I think I'll cash those, and I think I'll just go home and thaw out a little bit. And just kind of figure out what I want to do from day to day. My sister visits me. I only allow her to see me twice a month.

now because when we bought the place, Sal and I were going to remodel it, but since she got sick, we didn't. So she comes in a couple times a month just to remind me, it's like, she says it's like walking into a 1960s condo, you know, because it's... Maybe you like the 60s. It's pretty bad. I tell her, it's sort of clean, so, you know, I don't know if I'll ever do anything about it. Maybe that will be my next project. I don't know. But right now, it was good just hitting the road and staying busy. And obviously, I still haven't gotten over my wife. But anyway, no big plans. I watched cancer take my mom. And what you've described the open road afterwards is the journey that my dad went down as well.

And I think if he was sitting here, he would, or if I had asked him the same questions, he would have answered it in the ways that you did. And the lens that he was viewing it through was the day that you're living through right now and the proximity to the things that are weighing on you right now. And I don't know anything. I can't tell the future. But I was able to watch my dad find his way. So I know that it is possible.

He didn't have to bear the burden of losing a son overseas in addition to losing his wife. But I have seen true happiness in my dad since then. So I think it is possible. And that's as far as I'd be willing to say because, again, I don't know, I don't know shit. but I've seen it happen for other people. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure I'll get over this. I'm not exactly a cupcake. I know life is hard.

Nobody's a cupcake. Yeah. But it's, I mean, it's just life. I just wish it would have been me first, and then my wife could feel bad. She'd probably get over it a lot quicker. But your dad, then, I mean, I'm sure he felt the same way. He's watching someone he loves.

High school sweetheart. Yeah. Just, you're watching them just fall apart. Yeah. And it's so sad. And these memories just constantly when, you know, I knew my wife when she was 18. And it's, you just remember those days. And you're glad you do remember them.

I mean, they're sad now, but you don't want to lose those. I don't mind crying. Not necessarily with you, but I just, I don't want to lose those memories. So it's just something that I feel sorry for your dad, but I'm glad he's on the right road. And it's just something that anybody who has a spouse is going to have to deal with. And it really hurts. Yeah. I mean, the only, obviously, everybody's situation is different.

The difference in his situation right now is time. And I think that's probably the only thing that will round the edges on it if it ever will. I mean, obviously there's no guarantee. but it can happen. Yeah. I've got some senior citizen neighbors, and so they're single. And now I understand loneliness

because of what's happened to me. And I realize how lonely they are too. Anyway, after my wife passed, these two of these ladies were dropping off casseroles. There's a couple different ways you could take that. And I remember thinking, you know, what is this? You know, just leave me alone. And you realize they're just, you know, lonely.

And it's not just that they're feeling sorry for. what happened to me but they're lonely and I was I was my sister says hey you know what's the deal on the neighbors and because she saw the castrills I just you know I just clean out the thing the container say thank you very much and she goes so what's going on I you know I says I think they they found out that I have all my teeth and so Jesus, George. So they're looking. I'm in the hunt, you know, so I don't know.

But I definitely really understand people that are by themselves who have had a spouse. And there's that loneliness. And, you know, it's just something we'll have to deal with. I think I'll just find a buddy or a project. Plenty of French bulldole-on. I got plenty of crazy people at the casino. Oh, you're going to have your fill of crazy fucks at the casino. Yeah, they're crazy.

And sometimes they get a big kick out of them, especially when I catch them stealing or cheating in the game. I just can't help but smile and want to go down and chat with them. Well, George, I will let you close it out. We've been at it for almost three hours. Oh, God. I thought this was going to be. What did you think it was going to be?

I don't know, in and out. I don't think it's possible, not given the ground that we covered. I mean, first of, I can't thank you enough for taking the time to come up and talking about who your son was. I think the world is a better place for knowing about him and what he did in his life. Well, I hope people read the book because there's something in there for everyone. But just to understand what you can do when you face these adversities. And it's really your own determination that's going to make you whoever you want to be. And he's an example.

I just hope they'll give it a read. They can kind of see what happens to so many of us when we're young, and they get a taste of what seals go through. I think they'll enjoy the book, and they'll be better for reading it. I think so too. Perhaps that's the best ending ever right there. Awesome.

Thank you for your time. Thanks for having me.