Cleared Hot - Powered By BRCC - Episode 283 - Ephraim Mattos

Episode Date: May 1, 2023

Ephraim Mattos graduated high school in 2010, joined the United States Navy, successfully graduated BUD/s (Basic Underwater Demolition/SEAL) training, and became a member of a west coast SEAL Team. After leaving the US Navy SEAL Teams in 2017, at the age of 24, he flew to Iraq and joined a small group of volunteer humanitarians known as the Free Burma Rangers. Until being shot by ISIS on a suicidal rescue mission, Mattos witnessed unexplainable acts of courage and sacrifice by the Free Burma Rangers, who, while under heavy machine gun and mortar fire, assaulted across ISIS minefields, used themselves as human shields, and sprinted down ISIS-infested streets-all to retrieve wounded civilians. Ephraim founded Stronghold Rescue and Relief, a non-profit dedicated to sending highly trained former Special Operations personnel into the heart of violent conflicts around the world in order to find and help the families caught in the crossfire, as well as assist oppressed people in multiple countries facing genocide and human trafficking. Today, Ephraim continues to conduct humanitarian rescue and relief operations around the world.  Sign up for the new G14 newsletter here: https://www.clearedhotpodcast.com/exclusive Check out the newest Cleared Hot Gear here: https://shop.clearedhotpodcast.com/  

Oh, what's going on, everybody? Today's episode is brought to you by Black Rifle Coffee. When I do these ad reads, it's pretty simple. What I do is I go to blackriflecoffee.com and I talk to you about what I see. Now, one thing that you're not going to see on there right now, unless you look for it, if you go to their site, there's a little, what would it be, magnifying glass. And if you put in there cleared hot roast, if you are lucky,

you're going to be able to pick up some of that roast that remains. Now, I'm going to tell you this. They only did a thousand bags. I'm trying to talk them to do in a little bit more than that. They may be gone by the time this comes out on Monday. If it is gone, well, I don't know what to tell you. Other than you could on May 1st get the We're Not Here blend if you join the ECS. Or you could just join their normal coffee subscription service and get any blend of coffee, ground, whole bean, light to extra dark, even decaf if you hate yourself and have it delivered to your house or business or, I don't know, wherever the hell you want to, whenever the hell you want to.

that's the kind of stuff you can do. And of course, also find all sorts of different types of ways to drink coffee, t-shirts, all sorts of stuff like that. So go to blackwifelcofcoffee.com and help yourself out. All right, my guest today is Ephraim Matos. And let me just tell you, interesting man. graduated high school in 2010, which disgusts me because I was very old in 2010. Join the Navy, made it through buds, and became a Navy SEAL. Let's not hold that against him. He left the SEAL team zone in 2017 at the age of 24, flew to Iraq, and joined a small group of volunteer humanitarians known as the Free Burma Rangers. He ended up getting shot by ISIS on a rescue mission, which is insane, the video of that actually is online. And after that, formed the stronghold rescue and relief, which is a

nonprofit dedicated to sending highly trained former special operations personnel into the heart of violent conflicts around the world in order to find and help the families caught in the crossfire. His story about what he's been up to for the past few years is unbelievable. And I'm just going to shut up and let him speak for himself. Let's get into this. Episode Number 283 with Ephraim Matos in joy. I'm looking at danger close now. Yeah, so what was it? Three years ago?

Three years, yeah, yeah. Right as COVID was getting started. Yeah, so three years ago, when we recorded last time, it was just that one piece of machinery right there. Yeah, the road? Yeah, and then you press a button, and that was it, and I got a full studio going, and that's great, man. Was it in this room three years ago?

No, it was at your place. Fuck me. That was a long time ago. Yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah. So yeah. Well, during COVID, you know, there's only so much stuff that you could actually do. Yeah.

So I kind of focused on what I could do locally. Yeah, for people who choose to watch the podcast, it's actually, it's a simple setup. It's an office suite in a building with some sound dampening curtains on both sides. Michael sits off camera. That's a newer addition probably within the last year or so. But yeah, I didn't know what else to kind of dedicate my time and effort to. Yeah. What do you do?

when there's nothing else going on. Yeah. Right as COVID was hitting, right after I was on your podcast, actually, I was deadlifting. Lightweight, high reps, tweaked my back, of course. And so I ended up being down hard most of,

most of 2020 with my back. I was going... How bad you tweak your back? Dude, I don't know exactly what I did, but basically I was going to the chiropractor three days a week for several months just to be able to walk straight. I couldn't lift,

couldn't run, couldn't do anything like that for like a year. It was rough. How did it finally get better? Over time, I just kept stretching it out, kept sort of strengthening it, and yeah, lots of stretching, lots of just like random strength exercises that the chiropractor gave me. And lots of walking, ironically. He was like, dude, just walk, walk, walk, walk.

So that's what I do. I just go for like really long walks. Okay. Yeah. Well, COVID would be a good time to do that. Yeah, exactly. So it was good. Socially responsible, some might say.

Yeah, exactly. And I was wearing double-masked outside, alone, walking, making sure everything was safe, yeah. Quadvaxed or just triple? Just triple. Okay, yeah, yeah. My next vaccine is while in town here. I'm going to get that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You might have a hard time finding it here. Exactly. Here about Tata. It's great. You know, I was really surprised driving up here. I saw three different dance studios, which I know is totally random, and I don't even know why the conversation is going in this direction, but I know one of them in Lakeside.

There's a dance studio there. Michael would definitely know the answer. He frequents them. Where are the other dance studios in town, Michael? That's a really good question. He does interpretive dance. Yeah. He's into it, like deep, though.

I like to keep that on the low, so I'm not going to tell you. It's not on the down low anymore. I don't know how you even found out. He doesn't even, he won't even, like, send me texts. He does, like, small interpretive dances that he records with his cell phone. And I have to extrapolate the message that he's trying to send me. What does he mean? It's like, oh, he's going to be late again.

Okay, okay. I see. I see. And it takes him longer to do the interpretive dance. dance than it would to actually get here. So I can't figure out the math on it, but it's, I don't want to tell him to not express himself. Right, right, right, right.

You know, it's a special flower, you know, you got to express yourself. I mean, snowflakes, I'm saying. Special snowflake. He thinks he is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So probably the easiest way, I'm trying to think, I want the episode to be standalone. So bring, bring us up to everything you were doing before we met the first time.

So it can kind of be a standalone episode. And of course, people can go back, but it'll allow us to kind of springboard into everything you've been doing since then. Yeah, absolutely. So I got out of the teams in 2017. I joined when I was 18. I did like six and a half years and got out. I didn't do any short duty, didn't do anything like that.

I got out immediately. And as soon as I was a civilian, actually before I was a civilian, flew to Iraq to help in the fight against ISIS as a civilian volunteer. Just doing medical and humanitarian aid was my original intention. really what I wanted to do was to get into to doing that kind of thing post-military. So I ended up being there, I ended up getting involved in the front lines of the war on ISIS.

Not intentionally, but it's just kind of, that's just the need that was there. I wasn't looking for the fight, but we ended up getting into heavy, heavy fighting. We did several rescue missions, one in particular, the day I got shot. We went in and rescued a little girl who was sort of right in front of ISIS headquarters

in a pile of bodies. And on our way back, after extracting her and getting her, I ended up, you know, taken around through the leg. There's a video of that particular incident, correct? Yeah, there was a video of all that. So it was crazy, too, because that day everyone was, there was multiple war correspondents who were there sort of filming what was going on right on the front line. And so I didn't see the video until, I think maybe a week or two after it had been filmed.

So I had no idea. And the funny thing is, after I'd been shot, I was trying to replay in my head over and over and over again. like what had happened, you know, you're sitting there trying to like, okay, what went wrong, what went right, what did I do? And I couldn't remember if I had fallen over or not. Like, I could not remember if I had fallen over, if I just kept walking. I couldn't remember that part. I, like, totally blacked out after I'd been hit. And then I watched the video, and the video showed me that I'd fallen over right behind a tank, which was backing up. And then the tank almost ran me over. So the other guys were screaming at me to stand up.

So then I stood up and, you know, had to hobble out of there. But it was just kind of funny. then after I watched the video of it from someone else's point of view, then I remembered. I was like, oh, that's right, okay. I remember smacking the ground. I remember the tank treads almost getting me. Isn't that weird how human memory is? Dude, it's so weird. It's so weird.

That you could watch a video of yourself and not have the memories of what was happening, even though you're clearly watching yourself. Yeah, yeah. Wild. Yeah, no, it's super weird, too. And so actually that day, I'd been keeping a daily journal when I was there, and you talk about memory. So I remember writing in my journal or I just kept it on my phone, but I'd written in there that I'd been shot and had, you know, limped away or something.

I forget whatever I'd written was inaccurate. So even like a couple hours after it happened, I didn't even remember exactly what it transpired, which is really, really bizarre. This might be the video. Which one is this? Yeah. Oh, yeah. This is us running out there. So that's the guy who runs out there, that's David Eubank.

He was the leader of the American volunteers I was working with, a group called Free Burma Rangers. And the guy next to him is, or the guy who's also firing the AK, that's Sky Barkley. Was Sky trying not to hit anything? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's go ahead and start that from the top. I want to review here a little bit. Thank you. Thank you.

Not shouldered AK technique. Go to the beginning there. Yeah, this is great. Yeah. So ISIS is like maybe 50 yards away. So not bad there. Like it's a little bit shouldered. It's now it's just a real shit show.

Like I don't know what he's doing there. Not even aiming like eyes clearly six inches above the sight. I've never even noticed that right there at the end. He picks his head up and looks off to the right. He's like firing and not even looking down. Yeah. Not even looking down. It's called the safety violation.

It's not a big deal. That's safety violation. Yeah. I like how you're rocking the AK. That's all you had. So that was from a dead ISIS fighter. So when I showed up, they were like, hey, we heard that you were a sniper when you were in the SEALs. So we're going to give you this AK.

it actually shoots sort of straight. And that was exact quote. This one shoots sort of straight so you can carry this. So again, like we're unpaid volunteers just out there helping, you know, do medical care and humanitarian relief and all that stuff. And then at least one of you is aiming. At least one of you is aiming. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, it was funny too. So you see I jump out and then you see me right there. I take a couple steps back. So what I did was I took like four or five steps out because I thought that Sky was going to take one or two steps out from behind the tank. He stayed behind the tank wisely and just kind of poked around the edge. So he's using the tank as cover. So right there, I couldn't see my peripheral, so I had to back up.

So I get that one-to-one dispersion. So I could actually see him and know what was going on. Let it roll, Michael. Let's see, we got mag change. Nice. Yeah. Mag change. Yep.

Perfectly inserted even for the AK front first. Nice. Yeah, yeah. The other guy's like, fuck, dude, did I just shoot this tank by accident? I hope nobody was filming it. That's great. That's great. What, uh, I may have asked you this the first time that we sat down.

What rules, are there rules about a civilian going and getting a fucking AK and just going to town in Iraq? Like what rules that? We talked about this a little bit. And the answer to that question is I don't know what the specific rules are. So I know like there's rules against being a mercenary and going out, you know, being a gun for hire and things like that. But if you look at a situation like this, okay. What I do in my head, and again, I'm not saying this is legal code. But if I'm in a situation, right, so there's a little girl who's in front of ISIS headquarters.

She's 50 meters away in front of ISIS headquarters. She's hiding under her dead mother. There's 200 other bodies of people who've been slaughtered in the streets, all civilians, all laying there on top of each other. And, you know, I'm not there to fight, but it's like, yeah, I'll grab an AK and I'll go trying to get her and work together. So it's like. Trust me, I'm there for it. I'm not judging it. I'm just curious.

My thought is like if you were to do that in the U.S., would you get in trouble? And the answer was like, well, no, because you're trying to save somebody's life. So why does it matter if you're doing it overseas? You mean if a tank was in the street in the U.S.? If there was a tank in the street? Well, Trump didn't actually, speaking of tanks in the street, didn't Trump just turn himself over today or something like that? I think you went to court. To court.

Yeah. That's kind of funny. 34 felony charges. Charges, yeah. One of the beauties in this country that some people seem to have forgotten is that you were innocent until presumed guilty. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it was Pelosi who had a Freudian slip the other day.

Yeah. Like he can prove his innocence. It's like, fuck, ma'am. You might have, you might have that backwards. But again, not that anybody would ever weaponize anything. And to be honest, I haven't even followed the case against him. I truly and resoundingly, don't give a fuck. Yeah.

That's fair. That's totally fair. He, uh, you know, I can agree with some of the policies that he had, but as a person and as somebody who is a leader or held a leadership role, he fails in every metric from the way he conducted and behaves himself. Yeah. So it's just truly don't give a fuck. And if our system, again, nets him as one of two choices, it's just hot trash. It's a hot trash system if he's going to be 50% of the choices that we have at the end of the day.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's so binary and all that is really frustrating as well. Yeah. But yeah, I do believe that happened today. I don't think I haven't seen any news reports that there were tank. in the street, but I do feel like, so in your scenario, where there are tanks in the street, we're going fucking down this.

Oh, okay. Let's do it. Who would you be shooting at from behind the tank? Oh man. If there's tanks in this circle, who does the tank belong to? Talking about a tank in America? Yeah, you were saying if you did this in America, so lay this out for me. So who would be ISIS or was it ISIS in America?

I'll do it. This is easy. Red dawn. Red dawn. That's easy. Okay. So it's an invading Chinese force. Invading Chinese force, yeah.

And if you did that fight, yeah, you'd be. But I'm, yeah, I mean, as a citizen of the United States, I think you'd be fully covered in any legal ramifications for defending your country. But as a U.S. citizen, and again, I have zero judgment. I'm just fascinated. I would love to know if there aren't even any rules. I'm not sure. I don't think there's rules against Americans going over and volunteering. Again, like I said, I think there's stuff with like if you're being paid to do it.

I think there's stipulations with being a mercenary and all that, which I agree with. The, what I do know is like the British, for example, they, they have an issue with it. So like, I know, I know several guys who went and volunteered with the Kurdish forces, again, fighting ISIS and things like that in Syria and whatnot. And they got in trouble by the British government when they went back to Britain. Like, they were all fine. Like, no one ended up in, like, prison long term or anything like that. But it was, no, it was like illegal.

For them, it was technically illegal. I think the sort of U.S. policy is like it's frowned upon. It's like, hey, we don't want you to go do that because, you know, don't be a crazy person, which I agree. So if I do find myself in these positions, which I do from time to time, and even just a few months ago, I found myself in some gnarly situations as well. It's, you know, if you're there to provide medical care, if you're there to, you know, and you're there on a sort of humanitarian aspect, and that's the reason that you're there. Yeah, I mean, you have the right to defend yourself. You have the right to defend other people. I think that gray areas when you

have guys that go over and are just searching for the action, you know, and, you know, And it can't be illegal because, I mean, how many guys are going over and joining the Ukrainian military right now? Like tons. There's lots of guys. More than most people probably recognize. Yeah. There's a lot. I don't know where I land on that one either. Because I feel like there's obviously multiple camps, but it seems like there's largely two camps. One camp is people who want to go over and fight for what they believe in. And the other camp, seems to be military members who can't hang up what they used to do, and it's the only identity that they have. Yes.

So this is another thing I've run into as well, sort of in the realm of what I do. And again, just for people who are listening, so I run a nonprofit organization called Stronghold Rescue and Relief, and we go to conflict zones and do medical care, humanitarian relief and refugee protection from time to time. So refugee protection stuff, we're not running around with guns necessarily. We're just finding ways to basically protect refugees who are running. away from the fighting. And we talked about it pretty deeply the first episode. So people can go back and that would be a standalone just in describing what that is. Yep. So, but what I, what I found in

the realm of what I do is there's very, it's a very polar, very binary thing as well. So you have guys who are absolutely nuts. And I don't know the right way to explain it, but it's like you have people who are a little bit nutty in, in their normal life. And so what ends up happening is they, they, the normal sort of thought process that a normal person would have about risk and about like being introspective and saying, hey, am I really helping in this situation? A lot of times people don't have, there's people show up in these conflict zones or in these areas overseas and they don't have that sort of filter. And so you end up with like really, really crazy people or you end up on the other

spectrum which is like some of like the absolute best, most loyal, hardworking, trusting people who are introspective. They know why they're there. and they're the best people they ever meet. So it's always this really, really strange dichotomy of when you meet somebody, you're like, okay, we're either going to be like best friends or like, or you're a nutty, crazy person and I can't be around you. Well, that's my experience. Dude, yeah, I was, I was thinking of that analogy, kind of, well, it's, I was kind of thinking of that analogy.

It's kind of like, yeah, showing up to, showing up to buds, right? And so you have, you have guys who are going to end up, like, guys who just straight up shouldn't be there. They're there for the wrong reasons or whatever. And they're just like, they're kind of crazy. And you're like, dude, like, what made you think that this was a good idea to show up here? Because you're not mentally stable. You've got all kinds of weird emotional issues, right? So you have that guy on that spectrum.

And then you have the guy on the other one of the spectrum who's, you know, who's going to go all the way to like Deb grew, right? So you have the two, you have the two, you know, the two sides and you have a few guys in the middle. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's, I feel like these extreme situations draw out. like the best and the worst of humanity. And I think similar to with the Ukraine thing. I mean, you have guys over there.

I mean, hats off to the guys. I spent a little bit of time in Ukraine last year when the Russians were still advancing on Kiev. I was in Kiev at that time doing, basically setting up medical, doing medical training and training up a lot of the civilians who were sort of conscripted. And so we were training them on medical stuff and we're like, hey, here's how you can protect yourself. And they're like, hey, you know, like they were, you know, these civilians, like their job

was to be, hey, your job is to hold this road. if the Russians come down this road, your job is to fight them. And that was it, right? You're going to live in the basement of this building, and this is your life now. So I spent some time there. So I came across, you know, guys who are hats off to them, guys who are actually going out there and, you know, World War II style, you know, trenches and all that kind of stuff. I never personally got up to the front unlike that. So I never, I never was in any real combat at all, or even in major danger. But I know that there were guys who were. But then, And so there was that. And then there was also guys who were just absolutely nutty who showed up as well. So it was just bizarre, that dichotomy of how it all works. How do you think the U.S. should manage that or is it even possible to do so? The situation in Ukraine? Citizens going to Ukraine. Citizens going to Ukraine. You know, I've had quite a few ex-military guys reach out like, hey, I'm heading over. And I don't necessarily know how to respond. Because again, I know, and I'm sure you do too, plenty of people who get, They can't move past who they used to be what they used to do. Yeah.

Yeah. And they're going over there. And if it wasn't Ukraine, there would be, fill in the blank place. Yeah. Right. They're, if given the opportunity, they're going to go and fight. I want to be graceful to them and say, hey, you know, they have an understanding of what they're doing and they're fighting for the right reasons. And they have a deep level of understanding of their actions and why.

And if I'm being totally honest, sometimes I question. those links and change. For sure, for sure. Chains that people have in their thought process. And I just, I wonder, I wonder if the U.S. can do anything about it and if they can, should they? Personally, I think, I think guys should be allowed to make that, make that decision for themselves. They should go over there.

And I feel like it's on the Ukrainians to weed out the weird ones. It's kind of where I land as well. Yeah, guys should have the freedom to go make that decision. But then also, too, it's like when I came back from Ukraine, I got stopped going through, you know, going through the border coming back in to the U.S. at the airport. And then they had a bunch of questions for me and wrote down a whole bunch of stuff. Like, where were you? Who did you talk to?

And so they're gathering this information. They want to know, you know, making sure guys aren't running around acting crazy. But I don't, I feel like the situation kind of fixes itself. So actually, this is a really funny thing. So when I was in Ukraine, I spent most of the time that I was in Ukraine. Ukraine alone because I was one of the first guys in from my organization kind of setting stuff up and getting things going. And so I was in Kiev until the Russians pulled back until they stopped their advance, which we were all like, thank God, because we're all, you know, waiting to get overrun.

And so then the Russians stopped, they pulled back. And so I ended up going down to Odessa because the assumption was at that time that the Russians were going to invade Odessa, that were going to open up a second front there potentially. So I was down there helping prepare that. So I was working directly with the Ukrainians, and they basically put me through a, through like a rat line and got me on a train down to these other cities and had people in cars pick me up and meet me. And so we had all this stuff organized and I got down to Odessa. So I got down to Odessa and they said there's a lady.

She's going to meet you. She's in a white car. She's going to meet you at the base of this statue. Get in the car with her. And she'll take you to the resistance. She'll take you to the people who are preparing for, you know, to protect Odessa. And so I said, okay, great. So I show up where I'm supposed to be.

Sure enough, a lady shows up in a white car. I get in the car with her. There's a guy with her as well, who's her husband. And she speaks pretty good English. That's why she was sent to pick me up. And so we start driving to the outskirts of Odessa. And so we're talking and I'm getting to know her. And she starts saying, oh, you know, thank you for being here and helping us.

And here's what we're doing. We're civilians and we're getting ready to, you know, protect the city. And we don't know anything and all this stuff. And then she says, she's like, oh, there's some other Americans here and they're helping us. And I thought, oh, interesting, cool. All right. And she goes, they're, they're Navy SEALs. And so I go, so again, she speaks broken English.

So I go, I said, okay, when you say Navy SEAL, I say that's a very specific term. I was like, do you mean like they were Army or they're Marines or they're just American veterans? She's like, no, no, no. She's like, I understand the term Navy SEAL. She's like, they're Navy SEALs. And so I thought, okay. And so I thought, again, binary. I'm either going to run into some crazy people

or I'm going to run into a couple guys that I know, right? And so we get out there, I go into this hallway and I hear them, they're doing like room clearances and this old abandoned like Soviet factory. Like training. Yeah, they're doing training. And there's civilians in there with guns. Nobody knows what they're doing.

It's, you know, you feel bad for the people though too. And I don't say that to make fun of the civilians. There's just people who've never held a gun in their life. And now all of a sudden the Russians are coming, right? Welcome to the fucking show. Exactly. So, you know, I was like, and obviously I'm there to help them. So anyway, I hear them doing these room clearances, and I hear all this like screaming

down the hallway in English like, clear all clear, clear, clear, and all this screaming. And I was like, no, that's not a team guys. I was like, no. They don't yell like that. There's nobody's yelling like that, exactly. So sure enough, these guys come back down the hallway. And while I was standing there waiting for the room clearances to be done, there was an American, there's an American guy standing there.

And so the interpreter lady, she introduces me to him. I forget the guy's name. Let's say John. She's like, oh, this is John. He's an American. And so John looks over me. He's maybe in like his early 60s. If he had ever been in the military, maybe back in the 80s or something, he clearly was not a military guy.

And he's standing there. And he's like, oh, hi, you know, he shakes my hand awkwardly. And then he goes, he's like, yeah, I'm John. And I was like, oh, hey, John. Like, you know, what do you guys got going on? And he was like, oh, I'm not here. That's exactly how he responds. He goes, oh, I'm not here.

Cool, John. If you were here, what the fuck do you guys have going on? Exactly. And I was like, so I was like, okay, okay, cool. He's like, I'm not here, I'm not here. I was like, whatever. Fucking commanding officer of the douche brigade. Dude, so no, the commanding officer was about to come over in second.

So the commanding officer. So anyway, so they finished the training one at the end of the hallway. The Ukrainians start coming back and there's two Americans with them. And so there's this little sort of stocky, uh, guido looking guy. Um, he comes, he's all, he's all cocky. Dude, he's like, he's got the little strut going on, you know? He's just like, he's like the man, uh, for the first time in his life. Um, and, uh, so he comes walking.

walking in the hallway and then the interpreter she says, oh, this is Mike or whatever, I don't remember saying. Like, oh, this is Mike. He's an American as well. So this guy, he comes up to me, so he looks at me, so he looks at me, doesn't introduce himself, doesn't shake his hand, doesn't shake my hand, nothing like that, just looks at me, turns his shoulder,

looks over me, he goes, what unit were you with? That's the first words out of his mouth. And I go, I'm trying not to laugh because, like, okay, I know these guys obviously aren't seals, they've been telling everybody that they're seals. And so I just go, you need them to tell you that they were seals. Yeah, exactly. I wish, I wish I'd held on long enough. I can teach you these things. You have to get, it's that you have to lay the road out for them so they go driving on it.

Okay, perfect. I need to, I need to learn that technique because the story would have been way better than send out. Well, then he didn't crush them because at the end of that road is a catastrophic car wreck. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, so the car wreck happened pretty quick. So I just went, I was like, oh, team one. And he goes, he just gets us a cocky look on his face and goes, team one of what? And so you're already aired out. You're talking. done. So I just go, I go, I was like, seal team one. And so like the look on this guy's face, his face just drops. The, the third guy who hadn't said anything, he literally takes like two or three steps back kind of into the darkness. He doesn't want to, he doesn't want to talk

to me. The other guy's face like drops and he catches himself and he's like, oh, cool, like, are there more of you guys or whatever? And I was like, no, no, I'm not with the military. I'm just, you know, here as a volunteer. Same as you guys and whatever else. And then the other guy who wasn't there, he steps out from the, from the wall. And he's like, comes up to me. He's like, now he wants to shake my hand. He's like, oh, I didn't know you were a seal. Like, oh, so good to meet you. Oh, blah, blah, blah.

And it was, yeah, the whole thing was really bizarre and really weird. But the funny thing is, so with this group of Ukrainians, there was a group of guys. There was like five or six of them. And they had customized weapons. They had good gear on. And they were kind of keeping to themselves and they were quiet. So I thought, okay, I want to go talk to these guys because these are the guys I need to be working with this whole other thing. I've got what's going on.

So I go up to them and I start talking about. You didn't want to work with Meal Team Six? Meal Team Six. I did not. So yeah, so I go up and talk to these other guys, and they go, so one of the guys speaks English and we're talking back and forth. And so he goes, so I was like, hey, like, you know, I was like, these guys aren't, oh, no, what did I say?

I forget how the conversation went, but one of the one of the, the one guy who spoke English, he goes, he's like, yes, we know they are not Navy Seals. Obviously. So, so then we started and then ended up becoming like really good friends with those guys. and I spent most of my time doing stuff when we got all those guys like T-T-R-C certified we brought in an actual T-T-T-T-T-T-T-C certifier so for people who are listening,

that's basically tactical combat casualty care, which is just combat medicine for basic. Yeah, for basic. Did you ever get any beta on who those people actually were? No, that was the last time I saw them, and I didn't push the issue. I didn't want to make an issue. So the thing was like,

the only problem I saw was the fact that they were lying about who they were, which is obviously a big problem. The other thing, though. What about the shit tactics they were probably teaching? You want to know what? They're teaching people who have never held a weapon in their life. So I'm like, honestly, my attitude was, hey, something's better than nothing.

I'm not going to sit here and get, I'm not going to let these people sit here. Is it though? Probably. Yeah. I'm going to put my foot down on that one. I mean, if you had to teach a tactic, it's just somebody who had never held a weapon. Mm-hmm. You'd be better off teaching them how to, like, strong point.

Mm-hmm. And look at a, at a structure or a room, right, and have the angles to their advantage. as opposed to trying to clear shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you can get them cleared really fast. Totally fair. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.

That's what I worry about. It's totally fair. Yeah, fucking gravy seal team one or fucking meal team six. Like, people, it's so fascinating to me, people's desire to be something that they're not. To go over to a fucking war zone where we're actually probably going to huck lead at each other at a few thousand feet per second. Yep. And pretend. the veil of truth is thin on those margins.

You either know what the fuck you're doing or you don't. You're alive or you're dead, one or the other. But why go to that environment with those type of consequences and lie? Fuck, man. Where do you have to be in your life to think that that is what you should be doing? Or what's also funny to me is it's not even just one guy on his own doing that, right? It's like three guys in this particular group, like three random dudes in Odessa. the, you know, and then I talked with them, and I think one of them had been like a paratrooper,

another guy had been in like the Marine Infantry, and I think the other guy had been in the Army back in the 80s or whatever. Probably a combined service of four and a half years. Yeah, possibly. Possibly. So, yeah, I was like, fuck, man. I don't know. I don't know.

And, I mean, so again, I try to be as objective about it as possible. Hey, it's great that you're there helping. But also, come on, guys. Like, why are you lying? And I don't understand the psychological need for that. I really don't. because it's like, hey, you could have joined, you could have, you could have gone to Buds. You could have, or you could have gone SF, you could have gone Ranger.

Like there's so many other things you could have done. Or, but the fact is, too, is like, hey, man, like one of the guys, like I said, was a Marine. The other one had been in the airborne. I was like, dude, you don't even have to lie. You don't even have to lie. Like, you just say, like, yeah, I was an airborne guy. Hey, I was a Marine. That's great because now you're talking to, because you're working with civilians who've

never done anything before. Like, so you're astronomically ahead of them. I was going to say you have a galactic level of experience just being in the military in general. Exactly. Like you don't have to add those layers of bullshit to the onion. Yeah. Because the first round coming in at about 3,000 feet per second, can peel those layers back real fucking fast.

Yeah, real quick. Exactly. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. If you were a betting man, how would you bet the Ukrainian war plays up? I think they're going to find some kind of, I think basically there's going to be a continued stalemate.

I think Putin and Zelensky or I don't know how it's going to happen, but I think they're going to make some sort of agreement. Putin's going to keep the territory that he's got right now. I don't think much is going to change. And I called that back in March 2020 or whenever, when it had first happened. I knew people were like, oh, the Ukrainians are going to win the war. They're going to push the Russians out. Like, no, they're not.

Like the Russians are not strong enough to take Ukraine. The Ukrainians are not strong enough to push them out. Truly. And the West and NATO is not going to provide the level of sort of, support needed to enable the Ukrainians to completely push the Russians out. And the Russians are going to save face. They're not going to back down. They don't care how many people die. So I think we're going to end up in some sort of a similar situation. So what's also interesting is when you talk to Ukrainians, they look at Americans and they look at the rest of the world and

they go like, hey, this war has been going on since 2014. So to them, the, you know, the annexation of Crimea and then all the stuff that, all that area that Russia took in the east back in 2014, they're like, no, this is just the continuation of the same war. So to them, they don't see it as a different thing. So I think that it'll kind of continue. If you were Putin, would you send Stephen Segal to negotiate peace? If I was Putin, would I send Stephen? Because he is a Russian citizen now and has received.

Wait, is he? Oh, fuck yeah. What? And has received many. Why am I just hearing about this? Oh, Michael's going to, I saw Michael's finger so flying on that one. He has received many friendship awards. from Putin.

From the Russians? He's a motherfucking Russian citizen. What? Yeah. Man. Michael? Help me out. I'm so heartbroken.

Why would you be heartbroken? It's fantastic. Because he was... That's one less absolute bag of dog shit here in the U.S. You guys could have that one. I thought he was a seal. I saw him in a movie. 2016, dude.

Steven Sogloven became a citizen in Russia in 2016. He received a Russian passport from President Putin. With state order of friendship. Have you ever received a state order of friendship medal from any country to include the U.S.? No, no, I have not. Worked as the Russian ministers, ministry's special representative to the United States. Oh, he's representing Russia in the United States. Straight up Russian citizens.

Oh, hell no. Have you ever seen a video of him running? No. Michael. Michael. This podcast is just going to turn into like a YouTube rabbit hole. It's fantastic. Yeah, Stephen Segal running.

Yep. He was like, wasn't he like, he's on some cop show, right? Where he's like going around as a police officer or something? I just, I mean, look at this. Look at the lower body extremities. What is happening? He's running. Look at that shit.

You know, I've seen that, I've seen that multiple times in movies where I see an actor. He's in like incredibly good shape and they're just so, they're so awkward. He's like a human cock that's somehow making his way down the street. Look at that shit, dude. Who runs like that? got no concealed palsy hand on the right hand side there. Man. God, I would love to beat him to death with like a three foot long dildo.

Andy, he's a black belt in my keto. I would watch out. Well, yeah, he can't manipulate my wrists when I'm beating him with a dildo. Oh, wow, that's great. Yeah, you know what, Russia can happen. Just so you know you're welcome for that. You didn't know any of that and now you do it. No, I do.

This is why I'm here. You're going to leave today a different person. Yeah, yeah. I have a lot to think about it. Just on the drive back. I'm just like, Stephen Seagull, why? What's going on? He is a steaming pile of human excrement as a person.

You really, really don't like this guy. I fucking hate him. Yeah. And Michael, don't pull this one up, but for people out there, just Google like Steven Seagall and sexual assault and how he's treated. I've heard it some allegations and stuff. He's fucking piece of shit. Lots of stuff like that.

Yeah. Fortunately, his hair is all natural. Okay. I may have watched some of all of the show where he's the cop. he goes to a range one day he's shooting he's shooting matchheads right

he's like teaching marksmanship and he's shooting matchheads like like matches yes okay now for anybody out there who has an IQ of one or above you can realize that editing is a beautiful thing

and just because a round hits a matchhead doesn't mean a he shot it and b there wasn't a 150 rounds that occurred before it hit that. Yeah, yeah, what was the distance? This is exactly where I was going. So he's standing at a range in a distance that is clearly no more than five yards.

And it says on the bottom, 30 yards. 20 feet is what I'm seeing here. 20 feet. Okay, well, that's seven yards. But whatever fucking distance they put up there, it was clearly so much closer than that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But it's just the perfect metaphor for who that fucking dick slap is as a human being. And again, too, it's like going to back what we were talking about, going to what we're talking about before. It's like, why do people feel the need to pretend to be something that they're not? I just, is a thespian. So he has spent a good majority of his life. That's a good point.

That's fair. That's fair. I wonder if you work in the world long enough. Like, is it possible that you forget what was your life and what you read in the script? You know, I wonder if there's something that. If you're that hollow of a vessel. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's like, it's like Robert Downey Jr. and tropic thunder where he's having that identity

crisis. He's like, oh, who am I? What am I doing? I'm so glad they made that movie before they would have all been thrown in jail for making that movie. It's one of the funniest things. When I was, when I was going through SQT, we had, so we all just graduated buds and we went up to, we were up in Alaska for a month or whatever. And so somebody went to a blockbuster. And actually, you know, myself and a buddy of my, we went and got Napoleon dynamite and Tropic Thunder. Oh, what a classic pairing. Yeah, it was great. So we watched those at dinner and everybody was just laughing. It was so great. One of my favorite members. College. Nobody gets that one.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Michael, have you seen Napoleon Dynamite? I love Napoleon Dynamite. Fuck yeah. It's so good. It's so good. I was 103% sure he was never going to have heard of it because he's like 16. No.

Absolutely love it. How many in your social circle love that movie or even know of it? I figure you guys are more like you just identify as Pokemon and like demon, demon, self or whatever the fuck you guys call. all yourselves. Bunny self, actually. Yeah, he works at UPS. So everything we've just said is 100% happening there. Okay, okay, okay.

Yeah, fair enough. The point that my brothers all love it. A couple of my friends, I think, have seen it, but are not as passionate about it as I am. Hmm. They're not the same as us. They're not. Different breed.

They might look the same. Yeah. They're not the same. They're not. On the inside, on the inside, they don't know. Yeah. Survive. fucking tropic thunder is so good

so good yeah well it's the funny thing is like so so we so I work a lot in Burma and so you know we're doing humanitarian aid and medical care out there and so there's a lot of great references to Tropic Thunder it basically is Tropic Thunder yeah man like we lost man like all that stuff it's like it's so great and like crossing rivers that are ankle deep but like holding your you know holding your gear above your head and all kinds of all kinds of load and lock yeah yeah Let's go get this. Via Kongs.

Yeah, yeah. It's via Kong. It's already plural. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so we got up to the Iraq part. Fill me up to everything up to the first podcast, though, because then we can springboard for it. Yeah, yeah.

So, yeah, so went to Iraq, ended up getting hit, healed up from that. And then, so basically that, about a probably six or seven months later, I was actually, I was doing some, some Muay Thai training over in Asia. I'm not very good. But I was just doing some training over there. And then basically I got asked by some people to help in Burma.

And they knew my background a little bit and knew that I had, you know, I was, you know, had volunteered in Iraq and we had mutual friends and stuff. And so they said, had Burma hit your radar before that. Yeah. So it had hit my radar. So actually back in 2016, I was in Thailand for six weeks when I was a seal. And so I remember at that time my platoon morale was really low because there was like a platoon in Iraq. Chuck Keating had just been killed. And he was, you know, we're a team one,

team one guy as well. And so morale was really low. We were not happy. And I just remember at that point, I was like, dude, like we're like a four hour helicopter ride away from villages, you know, in Burma where people are being raped and murdered massacre. You have a full platoon of seals here. All of our weapons are here. All this ammo is here. And we're doing training. exercises, which again, I understand why the U.S. can't get involved in everything. I totally understand that. But I, that was that particular deployment and that particular trip was why I was like, dude, I got to, I got to get out and I got to go, I got to go help in some, in some sort of way. So I was asked to go into Burma and to help out. And I didn't know much

about the situation. I knew the basics. And so I ended up going into Burma and living there by myself in the jungle for weeks with this tribe called the Karen tribe. And so worked with those guys and started to, at the time, the situation was relatively peaceful. It wasn't great. Like, they were still fighting and things happening, but the situation was relatively peaceful. And, but they knew that the war was coming. They knew that this, there was a ceasefire at the time. And they knew the ceasefire was going to be broken. So the tribal leaders were looking for anybody who could come and help them because they knew the fighting was going to kick off again. And so I started working, started working there, helping out with humanitarian aid, and just as a volunteer, so I didn't even

started my organization at this point, and was just self-funding, and I'd sold my home in San Diego to go out and do this kind of thing. And so I was working with them there, and then my relationship with them continued to grow. And so now, fast forward a few years later, it's like now we're much, much more heavily involved. And the fighting, I think within, I forget which year it was, but I want to say a year or so later that ceasefire did break. And so there was a lot more violence, a lot more refugees, a lot more people that needed medical care, medical training.

And at the time, I was pretty much a one-man show. So basically, I was just doing lots of medical training, kind of going to some of the frontline areas and saying, hey, maybe you can, you know, do this and this to help protect the civilians and things like that. I couldn't really do too much. But then in 2020, so in 2020, I was kind of on my last leg right at the beginning of 2020 with Stronghold because it was at the point where I was like, hey, something either needs to happen where we're getting more and more support because we're a nonprofit organization.

We don't sell products or anything. So we subsist completely off of people's donations. And so I thought I was like, man, something has to break here or I'm going to have to kind of move this Stronghold thing to being a part-time thing. which I don't want to do. I don't want to go do something else. I don't want to do anything else. This is what I want to do.

These people need help. They're, you know, villagers are being destroyed. People are being raped and murdered. And there's all kinds of evil happening. It's like, I want to go,

I want to go help here. And in other places. And so the, the turnaround point was basically I said, so it was early 2020 and I said, okay, I'm going to go on, I was able to get on Mike Ritland's podcast. Yep.

And your podcast. And I said, based on how these two podcasts go, this is going to determine basically the sort of the course of Stronghold and how this is going to go, because this is my only option really to figure this out. And the reason for that is because as I started Stronghold, I didn't want to rely on huge donations from private individuals who want to give large sums of money because I knew that that always comes with strings attached. You can't really do what you need to do. And it's very inconsistent. So maybe you have somebody who donates a bunch of money to

help you, well, okay, three months from now, that money is going to run out or next year, are you going to donate again? And so it becomes very unstable, it becomes very unpredictable. And I can't promise the people that I'm helping. I can't promise them help into the future if I can't, if I don't know, like, what resources I'm going to have. So what I did was I basically decided that stronghold, we were going to basically be a community based, we're going to use a community based fundraising approach, basically where we, and now what we have is we have thousands and thousands of people who each give every month, sort of like a Netflix subscription kind of thing, where they just give a little bit every month. We say, like, hey, if you want to give,

we ask, you know, if you want to support us, give us, you know, 50 cents a day, right? So it's 15 bucks a month. And we actually max it out. You can't give us more than a dollar per day, right? So we, we have that maxed out because we want lots of people to be involved and to make things stable. So this was the plan. This was how I had built the organization to be. It's a really, really great idea until it's not a great idea, right? So it's a like it wasn't working because we just didn't have enough people supporting us. So anyway, I went on Ritland's podcast and your podcast, both podcasts came out right around the same time. And so your audience and Ritland's audience, and I truly, truly mean this, you guys completely saved our organization

and everything that we're doing now is completely, excuse me, is completely thanks to you guys and for having me on and whatnot. So your audience and Mike Ritland's audience, you guys, they got together and or they they the the the the amount of support that came in was shocking I was like absolutely shocked and so well it's such a palatable business model by reducing it to a lower amount and I actually think the idea of topping out the investment in it per month I don't I would not have thought of that for sure but I think it's a super smart move and like I don't know how many people are like me I just happened the other day to go through my iTunes subscriptions Okay.

That I hadn't in a while. Yeah, yeah. Fuck me running. I am spending money on things that I didn't realize that I still was subscribed to. Oh, really? Oh, wow. So if a lot of people right now are like, oh, yeah, that does make sense to make a small investment every month. Just go through your iTunes, your subscriptions, which, by the way, I think they make it intentionally hard to find.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you can easily one-click, turn it off. Yeah. I was subscribed to shit that either my kids had taken a real liberty of hitting the accept button or stuff. from literally years ago. And I mean, it's not, it wasn't hundreds of bucks, but 30 bucks a month, 40 bucks a month, that I didn't even fucking realize was going. Yeah, that's the thing.

You don't even know that it's gone. And that's the thing, too, with, you know, with what we do. That's why it's amazing. We have, like I said, you know, thousands of people who each just give a little bit every month. And so it's so sustainable. And so what that does is it allows us to predict our monthly income, you know, months and months in advance. And so one of the things we'll kind of get into and start talking about as well.

is we actually now have like full-blown ambulances, like jungle ambulances out in Burma right now where we're transporting tons of patients and like incredible stories and stuff happening there. But that's a consistent long-term program and that doesn't work if every two weeks I have to like get on the phone and beg people to. Yeah, that's not the life you want to live. No, no. And it's also, it's bad too because it's like I have some, I've several friends who are exorbitantly, exorbitantly wealthy, like 1% of the 1% of the 1% of the 1% like. Billionaires. Yes, billionaires. Like, and like, they're my friends. It's legitimately my friends. And it's, it's like weird. It would be weird if I was, you know, like, hey, by the way, buddy, you're a friend. Can you, you know? You should tell them they're not allowed to invest.

Yeah, so I should do. Just be like, well, I've actually, I've had that conversation with them and I'll say, listen, I'm, like, you know what I do. I know what you do. But, like, we're friends. I will never ask you for anything ever. If you want to give, it's there. But that's it. Tell them no.

And I'll tell you why. And the few people that I know that are in that orbit, they are surrounded by a fucking disgusting amount of people with their handout. Yes. Yes. Which I actually can't, I can't even fathom what it's like to, I guess it would be associated in some way with fame because people would either want to be proximal to you or want something from you. Again, it's a different version of like a handout. But in the people that I know that are like that too, I'm super cautious. I don't ever want to ask for anything because I see them every day with almost every interaction.

That's exactly what's happening. And I would rather be their friend than anything else. I would rather go without than ask them for something. Yeah, absolutely. And that's something I see all the time as well in these situations. And so, yeah, so I didn't want to build my organization based off of that because then now I turn into this sort of scummy person who's like, oh, who's the next person I can talk to? Well, it'll put you into the category. Yeah.

It could potentially put you in the category for them, of them wondering, well, why is he my, you know, is he my friend or does he want something from me? And I think most people live in that category for those people, you know. Michael, Michael, before I forget, can you look up what episode he was on the first time? Because I want to be able to point people towards, we did a really good job of unpacking what your organization does and that way they can have that standalone. Yeah. Perfect. looks like 128. Okay, 128.

Yeah, it was a while ago. This will be in the two 80s. Oh, nice. Nice. This thing comes out, yeah. Congratulations. Well, it's not really congratulations. Well, it's going well.

It's great. I didn't have like a lot to do for a few years, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. People are sitting at home looking for content online. Yeah, it's like, okay. Perfect timing. I'll be consistent. No, it actually, you know, it's been awesome and sitting down and just being able to be

consistent with that pace. It helps for me for scheduling, too, but also, yeah, it helps with you. I've heard that. I don't listen to my own podcast because that would be weird. We're having this conversation. I will not go back and listen to it because I'm trying to be here while we're having it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I hear from people that consistency helps.

Yeah, no, that's great. Yeah. Yeah, it seems like a lot of good, good stuff's going on with you as well. You've got the black rifle coffee shop. Coffee shop, yeah. I'm going to swing by there on my way out. That's a black rifle coffee right there. Is that what this is?

Michael got that for you. Dude, thank you so much, Michael. You're so welcome. So I've never had black rifle coffee before. You're not going to believe this. Are you ready? Okay, I'm ready. It's going to taste like coffee.

Is it going to taste like coffee? Shocking. Stir that up, yeah. With straw? Yeah, there you go. What was that, Michael? A cold brew? Yep, cold brew with cream.

It tastes like coffee. It tastes like coffee. It tastes like coffee. came down and was like, hey, one of the other employees is upstairs as a woman protesting. I was like, this is why I'm here. Yeah. Tell me more. So I go up there.

And, you know, it's actually, I want to be very careful because it's very easy to, it'd be very easy for me to act in a demeaning manner or to talk down about somebody else's beliefs. And I actually don't want to do that. I think that having a conversation about what people believe is very important. And I came later in this interaction to the realization that this person was not interested in the conversation. because when I tried to engage in a conversation

or bounced up against logic or maybe she hadn't thought through some of this things, it came back to an emotional response. I'm a gun luster. That's what I was told. It was a gun luster and a bootlicker. And then one of the other employees was told that he has real small dick energy.

Wow. To which he responded, how did you know? Good for him. I was like, fuck yeah. Good for him. Good for you. Like that's what you do with that. That's amazing.

And you take it, you eat it and you go blah. And you spit up like, at him. But so I go upstairs, she has a sign. And on the sign, it was a representation, it was a hand-drawn and painted representation of children underneath school desks on the white board, even though it was a chalkboard, not a whiteboard. It said something about the Second Amendment. And her issue was that we sell a blend of coffee called AK-47. It's actually the espresso blend. And she, her belief is that because we sell that blend of coffee, we are fuck I might be mischewing my words a little bit glamorizing the AK itself which was a weapon of choice

I don't know which school shooting it was the weapon of choice but I have no doubt that it was yeah and because of that the bag of coffee it glamorizes and therefore promotes violence with said weapon I disagree at a very deep level and I She said she was going to be back in three weeks, and I hope that she is, because I've been thinking about this interaction almost nonstop since then. And I have some questions. Right now, Michael's like, oh, fuck me. I'm going to try to get her in here. I was going to say, yeah, have her on Friday or something like that.

I would love to have her on. And that's the thing is I feel like a lot of people wouldn't want to do that. I would be fascinated by the exchange because I am a huge fan of having my beliefs pushed on because it allows me to gauge not only the depth but where it comes from. So, like there was, you know, I asked her, I said, do you, do you go and protest movies that have what you would consider to be an exceptional amount of gun violence? And that's when it was like, you're, you know, a bootlicker or a gun last time. I'm like, listen, I'm not, I'm not trying to say that. I'm just, I'm trying to understand where you're coming from. And her belief about the AK in and of itself was very misplaced.

You know, she's like, this is a weapon that if you're shot by it, you are. are obliterated and in this mass shooting, like people had to be identified by their DNA samples. Like, it just destroys the body. And I'm looking at it. I'm like, ma'am, I was shot by an AK-47, and I'm standing right here in front of you. So, you know, your perception on that, and it might be a little bit off. Well, I don't believe shit that you say. And, you know, and I'm going to stick with the medical examiners and this. I'm like, okay, like, I believe whatever there is that you want to believe. But here's somebody literally standing in front of you, who was shopped from about 15 feet away with an AK,

and I wasn't obliterated. So is there a chance that the information that you are, you know, gathering your assumptions from or your beliefs that could be flawed? Also, you know, another question I had, like there are actual stores here in Montana that sell actual AKs. Why would you protest a coffee shop if you believe that anybody is promoting the use of an AK? Would it not be the places where you could actually buy an AK? And I'd be fascinated to hear her response.

If she comes back in three weeks, two weeks at this point, not that I'm counting the days. But it's, I have questions. I have no issue with somebody protesting. She can walk on the sidewalk as much as she wants to. I really don't care. But yeah, it's fascinating to me, some of the beliefs that people come to and the information that they use to get to those beliefs. Yeah. And I think sometimes, too, you're using the word information and logic and all the things.

these things, and you said earlier as well, the emotional response. And I think, I think that that's, when I look at the world around us right now, as sort of our society is fracturing, it's typically what it, what it looks like to me is like cold, hard logic on one side and then, like, total emotion on the other. And in reality, you have to have a bit of both, right? So the world, the world without emotion is a dark, desolate, horrible place. And the world that's, all emotion is nothing but chaos and disorder. And so you have to, you have to be able to balance to you have to be able to say, you know, you have to be able to have the logical argument about what's going on and have the actual facts of what's going on. And then, yeah, you do have to take

people's feelings into account a little bit. At least you have to, you have to temper it a little bit. So I think it would be good to talk with her and just kind of get like understand where the emotion is coming from. But I don't know if it'd be possible, to be honest, because the escalation in verbiage terminology and just, it rapidly escalated to the point. You could tell that there were, to use a hallway analogy, there were doors that I could open that she would go deeper into. And other ones, if you crack it, it was an immediate response to try to get you to go into a different door.

So I don't know if a conversation can happen. And that's the thing too is a lot of people who are so far, either on the logic side or so far on the emotion side, that refuse to be anywhere in the middle. Yeah. You can't have those conversations if people are so stuck in their ways. And people dig down into their own camp. and that's just that's just a recipe for disaster and chaos and war.

Yeah, it's how we get nowhere. How the fuck do we start talking about that crazy lady? I don't know. Coffee? We're talking about coffee. Oh, yeah, black rifle coffee. There you go. Yeah, yeah.

I'm talking about black rifle coffee. So there you go. You have a, it's your first black rifle coffee. It tastes like coffee. There we go. It in no way, shape, or form promotes gun violence. I'd like to share that with you and everybody else. Okay.

Perfect. There we go. Yeah. Michael definitely supports gun violence. He goes out and he champions gun violence. He raises money for gun violence. Yeah. Sounds by right.

Yeah. Well, speaking of gun violence, Burma. Now we're up to, so we covered the first podcast. Yep. What the fuck you've been up to for the last three years? Yeah, so, okay, so. Other than blowing your back out like a dumb ass. Dude. It was so lightweight. You know what the funny thing is? Like, I didn't even feel it during the workout. I didn't even feel it during the workout. I felt it after the workout. I got home when I was stretching and then I felt something in my back pop. And I was like, oh, that's not good. And yeah. So I ended up being in that situation. and eventually got that figured out in 2020. So 2021, I was finally able to kind of get back out in the field and start doing stuff.

I ended up spending a little bit of time in Haiti. We were just basically giving some medical training and stuff to the Haitian police officers. Also during this time as well, Strongholds started to grow. And so we started our base of supporters sort of getting larger and larger and larger. And so it got to the point in 2021 where I was able to hire employees full time and we were able to really get the ball rolling and really get things going. But then the story, things really started picking up in 2022. I had a team of guys.

I wasn't there because my back still wasn't at 100%. Dude, you threw yourself out of commission. No, it was bad. It was really, really bad. Did you ever go get it imaged and figure out exactly what happened? Just the chiropractor. So just the chiropractor. Did he ask you to buy a package of adjustments?

Well, yes, yes, he did. But I will also say, though, so he took a, he took an x-ray of my back. and he's like, dude, he's like, if I didn't know that you were, you know, I've read how old I was at the time, 27 or whatever, he's like, if I looked at your spine without knowing, you know, like who you are, he's like, I would say this is the spine of a 50-year-old man who's lived a rough life. Let me tell you, let me tell you what I would tell you what I would tell you what I would tell you what I would exactly the same thing, yeah, yeah, yeah. Every client that goes in there, if I didn't know that you were, looks at your sheet, 26, I'd say this is the back of a 50-year-old. That's true. That's probably true. Either way, it worked. Let me talk to you about this three adjustment per week package. for six months.

Well, I'll tell you what. Either way, he got the money and it did help ultimately. I've had great experience with chiropractors, by the way. However, the model of selling the packages is a little bit flawed in my mind. Yeah, yeah, that's fair. But actually, it was actually good, though. I was actually able to contact the VA and the VA because I had a basically a recommendation from him or whatever.

Like the VA actually was able to cover most of the stuff. So we actually ended up working out pretty good. So 2022 I ended up in Ukraine for a while and then Go back to Haiti though So you were doing basically Working with the police

Yes we're working with the Haitian police down there We spent we were planning on doing a lot more with them And still might do more with them in the future The issue was so when I was down there We had met with the Haitian chief of police And he basically explained him Of course the first words out of my mouth when I walk into the room I was like hey my name's Aframatos

I do not represent the U.S. government. And so we immediately have that conversation. And I said, like, we'll provide medical supplies, medical care and medical training for your police officers and all that stuff in the field. And basically, whatever you guys allow us to do, we'll help you out with whatever we can. Everything we're doing is free of charge. And of course, they always look at you sideways. And so like what you're saying is you work for the central intelligence agency. Dude, that's exactly what it is. Okay. So that's exactly, that's exactly what it is. So quick story about Ukraine. So I was in Ukraine, and one of the primary contact, my primary Ukrainian contact who was there,

was a relatively well-known Ukrainian person who fights against corruption. He's like a sort of a pseudo-celebrity within Ukraine. And so we just so happened to be working with him and ended up becoming pretty good friends with him. But so we're standing there one day, not doing much. It was like between a medical training or something or other. So we're standing there. And he looks at me, he's like, so you ought to spy, yes? Exactly.

You want a spy, yes? And he gets this big smile on his face. And I was like, it was just me and him. I was like, I was like, I look at him. I'm like, no, no, no. He's like, no, no. He's like, you what a good spy, but you were a spy. And so I go, no, no, no, no, like I told you this.

There's no way you're changing this person's mind for clear. Yeah, no, no, exactly. So he's got this big smile on his face. And I go, no, no, so I pull up our website. Like, hey, nope, stronghold rescue and relief. Like, you know, here's our Instagram. Like, here's pictures. You can Google me.

Like, you know, I'm on podcast. gets this big smirk on his face. And he's like, oh, this is the perfect cover for a spy. I was like, no, no, damn it, no. Yes, there's no, there's no convincing them sometimes. But yeah, so we were in Haiti. And so the chief of police was like, hey, this is really great. We basically, we just needed to sign a memorandum of understanding an MOU with him.

Basically, so that way, if we ever run into any issues, like these guys, the Haitian police and the Haitian government knows, hey, we're here helping the government. We're helping the Haitian police and we're providing medical care. This is all that we're doing. And so, you know, this is who we are and this is what we're doing. So he's like, yep, this is great. He's like, I was going to come back a couple weeks after that. And so he was like, yep, come back.

We'll sign this. We'll get everything good to go and we'll get everything started. So a couple weeks later, we come back and we're bringing in, I'm bringing in a few of the guys on the team and a couple contractors as well to help with the medical training and we're bringing in a whole bunch of medical supplies like turnicits and first aid kits and all the stuff we're bringing this stuff in and so i'm on my way i'm on my way to to haiti and i got my i got off my first flight i think in miami or something so i get off the plane in miami connect to the uh cell service yeah and uh the first message is hey the uh the haysian chief of police just uh just resigned

And I'm literally supposed to meet with him in like 48 hours, and he just resigned his position. I'm like, oh, no. So the reason he resigned was because the 17 Mennonite missionaries had just been taken hostage by one of the gangs. And so that was right when that whole situation happened. I don't know if you had heard about that or not. But yeah, there was like 17 men of nights, I believe Mennonites, and forgive me if I'm messing that up. But they were one of those groups down there doing humanitarian work. They'd all been taken captive by one of the gangs.

and the situation in Haiti is really, really bad because the gangs are basically starting to take control of Porta Prince, which basically in turn controls all of Haiti. And that's why the police really, really need the help. So I'm like, oh, that's not good. So we don't know who the chief of police is. Like our paperwork is not going to happen. Now we have to build a relationship with whoever the next guy is.

So anyway, we get down there and we end up meeting with the guy who was, we're down there for a few days. we end up meeting with the new guy who is the new chief of police. And so come to find out, the new chief of police for Haiti was the childhood friend of the guy who started the gang that kidnapped all the missionaries. So he's from the same neighborhood. He's directly associated with them. And somehow he becomes chief of police.

And so when I learned that, I was like, oh, like, our chances of being able to work down here are, like, basically zero. And, like, we'll still provide some medical training and stuff, but, like, we're not going going to go in the field with your guys. We can't, we can't take that risk. We can't, we can't do any of that kind of stuff. And we were, we were going to be working with, there was a, there's another NGO down there that does, they have like helicopters, like medical, medical evacuation helicopters and stuff. So we were going to train them on how to do procedures, how to bring in a helicopter, how to load a patient, like how to keep the security, all that kind

of stuff, because, you know, the, as you know, like the golden hour, you got to get medical care as quick as possible. And so anyway, we were planning on doing all that and it just just totally got mothballed. So we still did some training. We still got a bunch of T-R-T-R-C stuff done for the Haitian police officers, and it was really great, actually. Since then, two of the Haitian police officers that we trained during that time had been killed by the gangs, and one of the police officers was actually wounded, shot in the leg, and they used the actual tourniquets and stuff that stronghold provided them to actually save that one police officer's life, and then the other guys obviously weren't able to save them.

What do you think happened to the old chief of police? He took a job, I think, like, in Washington or something. So, yeah, I saw him actually. No longer in Haiti. Yeah, he was like, dude him out. I don't know if he's back in Haiti. I don't know. I haven't kept in contact with him.

But, yeah, he was, it seemed kind of relieved to get out of there, honestly. So he was like, all right, cool him out. And he ended up taking some kind of posting in Washington, D.C. Probably the only reason that he would still be alive, so he left Haiti. Yeah, I mean, he was out of there within, like, 48 hours of him stepping down. And we were at the airport to meet him and talk with him as he was out. Yeah. And yeah, he was basically just like, look to me. He was like, hey, man, good luck.

And I was like, thanks, man. Thanks, bud. Thanks, man. Yeah, exactly. Best of luck. It's like, I'm coming here. You're going there. It's like, no, no, no. That's backwards. It's supposed to be other way. So what did you do after that? So we were in Haiti and then forget the exact timeline on that.

But then starting in, okay, yeah, that was that was in like late 2021 into 2022. We were in Ukraine. And then the next big thing that we did was, so also in 2020, one, we experienced like massive growth. Like we experienced like massive, massive growth for the organization. Word got out there about what we were doing and everything, I was some viral videos and things like that. So our organization really grew.

So I was at the point where, you know, basically our income and the amount of support that we had. And so our ability to work had like 10xed basically overnight. And so I was scrambling for months doing several things. One was getting the organization on the back end taken care of. So there's a lot of operational stuff that has to go there. As you know, if you just... The forgotten.

work that actually at the end of the day makes it all possible. Exactly. Exactly. So it took me it took me a while to get all that done, but then also too that allowed us time was very grateful because our financial commitments were pretty low at the time. And so we had all that we had this influx of support coming in. So it was really great. I was able to over the course of time very gently increase our financial output. And so we were able to basically build up a good savings and make sure that you know all that stuff's good. So anyway, that was that was going on. And so then we started looking at other places where we could help. We knew we were going to be in Burma, because that's, but we can't work in Burma for basically during the American

summertime because that's rainy season over there. And you just, nothing, everything shuts down. There's just nothing. There's no roads. There's no, there's no bridges. Everything is just destroyed. So we actually ended up, I forget exactly how this happened, but basically we were invited to come out to Africa and work with African anti-poaching park rangers in Mozambique. And so this was actually in October of this last year. And so, We went out there. It was just an initial, so I had actually never set foot on the continent of Africa. I've traveled all over the world. Never been to Africa. And so when we went out there, and I also know nothing about conservation. I know nothing about wildlife protection. I know nothing about poaching. I know nothing about any of these things. But so we were invited to come out and get to know these guys and to work with them. So we went out to, we went out to Mozambique. And it was just a like a two-week trip, just to kind of get to know everybody and see what was going on and learn. But it ended up being a really incredible trip. We provided a bunch of medical training for the for the Rangers. And I learned just, just an absurd amount about conservation and wildlife management and park management, but then also about the, how the poaching works and the, um, how it affects the civilian populations around these national

parks and then like the Chinese syndicate influence and all of that stuff that goes on in these places. So there are like these mini, there's like sort of these miniature war zones where people are fighting over the animals and fighting over the land and everything. So it's still for the ivory? Um, it's the, uh, it's the, it's the, it's the, it's the, uh, it's the, it's the, The stuff that we were dealing with was the rhino horns. Okay. And forgive, I excuse my ignorance, but I don't remember if ivory is... Michael?

I believe ivory is elephants. Ivory is elephants, yeah, but is it, aren't the tusks made out of the same thing that the rhino? Yeah, what's a rhino tusks are made out of? What is a rhino tusk made out of? Yeah, I think somebody told me it's like basically the same stuff as like your fingernails are made of. That's what I have heard. Yeah, but then I thought, I thought that... Why would it be so valuable then?

So there's a bunch of... Chinese are crazy fuckers. They would just harvest the fingernails of their people. That's a perfect answer. That's basically the answer. It's the Chinese and a lot of these like Asian cultures that sort of prize rhino horn tusks and elephant tusks and all that stuff for medicine. There's these shots. I learned so there's these alcoholic shots that you can take in like Vietnam where it's like, you know, $1,000 for one of these shots.

And they like sprinkle rhino horn dust into the whiskey or whatever it is. Yeah, it's dentin, enamel, and keratin, the same substance that makes up fingernails and hair. And that's for the rhino? Yes. And what is the value, what do they do with it, Michael? Let's see, what do they do with rhino test? Yeah. I mean, because I know that a lot of the, like, one of the things that they're doing to prevent rhinos from being poach is they'll cut it off and have them walking around without it or they'll keep trimming it so there's no reason to kill the animal.

Yes. And I have an interesting story about that as well. All right, let's see. It's all going to come back down to somebody's dick getting hard. Like, seriously, all these potions are like, they're all dong potions. Yeah, yeah. So traditional Chinese medicine has used rhino horn for conditions including gout, rheumatism, fever, headaches, vomiting, food poisoning, typhoid is also considered to be an aphrodisiac. There you go.

You called it. You called it. That's funny. The horn is grounded to a fine powder, is shaved into slivers, and then dissolved in boiling water and consumed. Okay. Or into alcohol and consumed, apparently. Yeah. I feel like the alcohol is probably consuming most of whatever is sprinkled in there.

Yeah. It doesn't actually do anything. So it's the whole thing. It doesn't actually provide any medicinal things. It's like biting your fingernails. It doesn't do anything for you. But then the other thing that's going on to these national parks is the wood and the logging and all that stuff. There's illegal mining, illegal logging, illegal, all kinds of stuff going on.

But then you also have the civilians who, like, who've lived in these places for, for, for, generations for thousands of years. It's their land. And, you know, they're their subsistence farmers and, you know, it's Africa. So there's lots of, there can be lots of droughts and lots of different issues. And so there, there are a lot of times they're poaching, but they're just poaching for animals to eat. But the problem is, is they so they put out like, they'll put out like thousands of snares over the course of a year in a small area. But the problem is, then the elephants and the rhinos and the animals and all the monkeys that they aren't intending on capturing, end up getting caught in these in these in these traps and then you have all these animals are dying off and that just

causes issues with the ecosystem so it's a very complicated thing and then you got the chinese um so while we were out there um we spent so we're like literally living in tents it's basically a Jurassic park so we're in this sanctuary of a national park called Zanavnash in Mozambique and we would go out with the park rangers we'd get out of the trucks you know you see the safari pictures of people driving around safari and like oh look at the lions over there look at the tigers over there and they're taking pictures. There were no lions or tigers here. There was one line, but we didn't see it, but it's somewhere around there.

What was his name? They didn't have a name for it. Yeah. It's Bush. Bush? It's Bush League. Okay. Yeah, so we would drive around with the park rangers.

We get out of the trucks, and we would go on patrol with these guys back into the badlands and check up on the animals, see the migratory patterns. They would track where and when they would see the rhinos. And so these park rangers are walking around with shotguns, and they're looking for poachers. So they're looking for tracks. They're looking for all of this stuff and basically this roving security. So I just learned a ton being able to work with them.

And so as we were, one of the things I had been stressing to them as I kind of observed the situation. And I was like, so at this particular national park, they have like a small Robinson 44 helicopter. And I was like, hey, do you guys, do you guys ever run medevac scenarios with this? Because if you got to, if you have somebody go down, I mean, you're in like remote, remote, remote area.

It'll be their best chance at least. It's your, it's your really your only chance. It's like, you got to get the helicopter out there. And so we had been planning to do some training exercises with that. Well, in the middle of doing like a class on tourniquets or something, rather, one of the staff members comes running out and they go like, oh, like they say that one of the park rangers has just been mauled by a black rhino. And so they're like, we need to go do a medevac. And so we hadn't even done the scenario yet.

We hadn't trained it at all. But myself, and I was, there was myself. One of my other guys was there, Jason. And then we had an ER doctor who was actually volunteering with us at the time. time on that particular trip. And so I sent the ER doc and Jason, he's a much, much, much, a thousand times better than I am. I'm not even a medic.

I'm just T-C-Posie guy. And sent them in the helicopter with one of the Rangers and they went out to get, to, you know, get initial eyes on the patient. And then I went in with a South African tracker. We went in on the ground and basically foot patrolled in. We got in the truck, went out there and foot patrolled in. And so what I learned about the rhinos, so with white rhinos, they're basically just giant cows.

They're very docile and just chill. they're not going to mess with you unless they're cornered unless you mess with their like their babies. But yeah, they're just basically, you can walk right up to them and touch them. Really? Like giant dinosaur things. But yeah, they're just very docile. That's the white rhinos. The black rhinos.

Are they actually white? No, they're like gray. They look exactly the same as to me. Well, that's super fucking confusing. No, it is. It's super confusing. So you see a black rhino and it looks almost exactly the same as a white rhino. But it's like totally different as far as it's, as far as its attitude.

And so black rhinos are very, very aggressive and they will hunt you. And they will, like, they'll get aggressive and they'll come attack you. So on one of the nights. So black rhinos are assholes. Black rhinos are apparently, yeah, they're the assholes of the jungle. But the thing is like they'll hide. Oh, that's bullshit. They look exactly the same.

That's what I'm saying. That's exactly what I'm saying. Oh, that's fucked up. Yeah, look at that. So, yeah, actually, so the black rhinos like slightly, looks like it's slightly smaller. Oh, I don't like that at all. The white rhino. Yeah, dude.

I guess if you look at the ears, the ears are a little different. So, okay, yeah, so imagine that picture there on the left, the black rhino. I bet my life on my visual ability to see the difference between ears and rhinos. Yeah, no, no, no, definitely don't. Well, the thing is, so the black rhinos, they will, I learned this, they will wait and they will ambush you. So, like, they won't, so, like, most of the other animals, if you're making a bunch of noise and stuff, they'll typically just kind of scurry away from you. That's a way to, like, avoid snakes and things like that.

But the black rhinos, they'll sit in, like, very thick underbrush. They like to just sit there, and they wait for stuff to come along, and then they ambush it. And so that's what it happened on this particular day. There were a couple park rangers walking around. And then, yeah, a black rhino just comes out and attacks the two park rangers. And the only thing you can do is, I was like, okay, I was like, so what do you do? So these guys are armed with shotguns. They're like, if you shoot the rhino in the face, it doesn't do anything.

Because that thing's a tank. Well, good luck. I mean, I think it's in the back end there. But yeah, there's like there's nothing you can do. So they say the only thing you can do to get away from a black rhino is a climat tree. That's it. That's the only thing that you can. I feel like that asshole would sit at the bottom waiting for you.

Apparently they don't because so these guys, so these guys got hit. One of the Rangers got hit twice. So the helicopter lands, our guys get out and go get eyes on the guy. They had to foot patrol. When you get hit, when you say get hit, do you mean this thing ran at it with its nose spike and jammed him? This, yeah, this thing, yeah, attacked him. Yeah. Fuck.

So we get on the ground. So those guys are on the ground. We're in radio contact with them. We're like, they had a foot patrol maybe 500 meters to get to, from the HLZ, from the helicopter landing zone to the down to the down Ranger. So they go and get eyes on him and then they call back and they're like, oh, he's fine for the most part. And so at this point, we were already, we'd already foot patrolled in. I was basically pulling security at the HLZ with the South African tracker. And basically what had happened was that particular black rhino had been dehorned. And so that's the only reason this guy

was alive because he got, because he literally got picked up by the nose of this thing. And yeah, so he would have been impaled twice because he got hit twice before he could get up a tree. Michael, I don't know if I even actually really want to see this. Oh, no. Are there any YouTube videos of Black Rhinos attacking people? Or attacking anything. Attacking anything. Yeah.

So that guy was super lucky. Black Rino Rage? Yeah. Hold on. That's a lion. I realize that this is a lion. Well, maybe later on. Is this lion?

Oh, shit. Here we go. Lion's like, fuck you, dude. Dude, look at that. Yeah, so we were like in similar train just walking around with these, with these Rangers. That does look like a dinosaur. Dude, it is a dinosaur, and you see them. You can see the baby ones and you're like, dude, that's a little dinosaur.

That is an actual. Oh, he's loading up to start. He's going to give it a little bit of juice here in a second. Yeah, this is actually a great video too because it shows that the lion doesn't want anything to do with this rhino. I mean, I don't want to racially profile the black rhino, but he's an asshole. Yeah. I can tell that he's an asshole. You know?

Kat's just like, I'm just going to stretch what's up, rhino. It's no big deal. Yeah. These guys like, don't pay attention to me. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. You know it's about, oh, shit.

There we go. Oh, okay. Well, hold on now. That was rather aggressive. That was aggressive. And now maybe these fuckers deserve what they get. I'm, I'm changing. you my mind a little bit. Maybe these lines are assholes. Yeah, maybe they are. Well, this,

this one in particular, that hit these park ranges, he was, he was, uh, yeah, he was definitely not provoked at all. That was definitely a provocation. First off, whoever titled this video Black Rado Rage, fuck you for your clickbaited title. Yeah, I was like, that was like, that was very rage filled. From like a one to ten, ten being rage, that was like one and a half. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would have given it a two. That was a little bit of angered. He did put off an asshole vibe, though. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not going to lie. Yeah, yeah. That's what I took from that. Yeah.

Little territorial beasts. So the way to survive a black rhino attack is to make sure that it's been dehorned first. Make sure it's been to horned and get up a tree before it hits you. So basically, just don't get into a flight with it. But so actually in this one, in this national park, so I guess they said that they have one, they have one lion out there, but they didn't know exactly where it was. They would sometimes see its tracks. And so when I was on patrol with the Rangers, with myself and I think two or three of these

Rangers, we came across a carcass from an antelope or some version of a deer or something. and it had been eaten, and it had been eaten in such a way, and its throat had been bitten open. Yeah, so they knew it was a, they knew it was a lion, so the lion was around there somewhere. So, yeah, so it was very interesting. And so we're actually going to be going back into Africa and working with these rangers because they, again, our mission there is to help the people in the conflict, right? So it's to help the villagers in these areas around the national park, but then also to help the rangers with medical care. So they're, because they're also the only people who these villagers can ask for for help and things like that.

So making sure that they've got anti-malaria meds, make sure that they've got sked-co litters, make sure that they've got procedures down for doing medevacs, make sure that they've got all that done. And we're actually creating a custom-made, basically certification program, like a three-day program, specifically for Park Rangers, like a medical training course. We'll get an actual certificate of from our medical director. Or encounter the poachers much, or is it more just dealing with the aftermath? Because what, how kinetic is their job, the Rangers? So it's very rarely kinetic, but it does get kinetic. It's based more on where you're at. So some parks have lots of, have lots of poachers, and so there's lots of stuff going on all the time, and so they're getting into, like, weekly contacts.

I feel like the poachers would do everything possible to avoid that contact. You wouldn't believe the stories I was hearing. Like so the poachers, they will, they will do all kinds of stuff. They'll carpet on their feet. They'll, they'll put, they'll have specially made shoes where the footprint is backwards, where the heel is backwards. So they'll walk in so that way the park rangers will go the opposite direction. So one of the worst things, though, about the, about the, um,

it's a little bit better non-provoked. Yeah, it's pretty terrifying, dude. I mean, I don't care if that's a white rhino or a black rhino. I'm running as fast as I fucking possibly, dude, absolutely. Oh, shit. Oh yeah. Okay, that's a black rhino for sure. Yeah. Well, once more. What? Yeah. Yeah, so the, yeah, people. That thing's clearly an asshole. Black rhino attacking a vehicle. All right. Yeah. Good job, Michael. You've redeemed yourself a little bit. I didn't personally see this, but one of the stories that was told to me by one of the other American guys who had kind of made the connection for us there in Africa. He was telling us that they had come across a situation.

So what the posters will do is they'll sneak in to the national parks. That's not that hard to do because it's a lot of area. What is hard is after they take a shot, so once they find a rhino, they'll take a shot, and then they have to dehorn the rhino, and then they have to get out of there. That's the hard part. And so the rangers are constantly roving, waiting to hear a gunshot, looking for tracks, all of that stuff. And then the Rangers have, you know, at least in this one particular national park, they've got helicopters, they've got trucks, and they've got other pickets out so they can kind of surround these guys and capture them. So what the poachers will do, and what they did in this one particular situation was they went up to a, it was a white rhino, it was a mother and her baby rhino. They shot both of them at the same.

They shot both of them. And because they don't want to continue to give away their position with multiple shots, they, both the mother and the baby rhino were still alive. But they're wounded and they're laying there on the ground. And then what these guys do is they have a saw. And so they'll go and they manually cut the horn off. But they don't just cut the horn off. They cut like the entire face off because the horn goes down deeper into the face,

goes sort of down deeper into the rhino skull. And so they'll cut the entire face. off basically up until the upper part of the mouth and they'll take the whole thing. And so they did that to the mother and to the baby rhino while they're alive. So they chopped their faces off while they were alive and got out of there. And so when the rangers got to the scene and saw the situation, both of them were still alive. And basically the mother and the baby rhino were like crying, like trying to talk to each other. They were like cuddled up next to each other with their faces chopped off and were like gurgling,

like trying to make noises and comfort each other and whatnot. So have the Rangers thought of doing that to any poachers that they might catch to leave a message? Yeah, TIA, man. This is Africa. Yeah. So I'm sure that I'm sure that stuff like that has happened. I would love to catch those poachers and do exactly that to them as well.

Yeah. And send a video of that to their loved ones. Yeah. I don't know what that says about me, but that's what I would like to do. Yeah. No, it's a natural, it's a natural reaction. And so, you know, for me, like I learned, learned all about this stuff. And so at Stronghold, we're going to continue to help these

Rangers with this. And then also to the Chinese syndicates and the different intermediate gangs that are associated with the Chinese syndicates, they terrorize the villagers and the local population as well. And entice them. Are they trying to displace them? Or what are they trying to do? No, they're not trying to displace them. Basically, they're trying to keep them quiet. So they can, you know, go in and do their thing. And so if anybody says, it's sort of like mob rule, hey, if you see anything, if you say anything, like we're going to we're going to come back and we'll kill you and your family, all that kind of gangster stuff. So we're continuing to work there.

We'll be doing more this summer. But then, so right after Africa, we went into, we went into Burma. So I basically, right now, just a few weeks ago, I got back from basically like a four, four-month mini-deployment into Burma, where, you know, things got really, really crazy on this particular trip. So I went in in November. And so I'll backtrack a little bit. So when I was initially asked to go into Burma, the guy, one of the guys I had met with, his name was Babo. And Babo was going to be my interpreter.

And he's from the Karen tribe. And he's from there in Burma. So this goes all the way back to like 2017, 2018 when I first met him. And he and I became like the best, best of friends. So for many, many months in many, many trips, it was me. And he was the only person who spoke English for months in the jungle. doing training and helping out in the situation. He explained to me everything, how everything works.

Incredibly loyal, just like one of the nicest best guys you'll ever mean. I think I sent you a picture of him a while back. So on this particular trip, we went into Burma, as we normally would. I met up with him as he's our interpreter for the team, and we also have a second interpreter as well. I won't say his name because he's still active with us. And so my first trip in, or at the beginning of my trip, trip in November. Basically, I needed to go get a lay of the land. So in, so in 2021, there was a coup that

the Burma, the Burma army already sort of controlled the country anyway, but they had been making under President Obama's presidency. They'd been making sort of fake overtures toward democracy. So that way that the world would basically relieve some of the sanctions on the Burma army, because people who don't, because people who don't understand what's going on in Burma, which is a complicated, weird situation. Basically, the Burma Army, the central government itself, or excuse me, the army itself is the government. So it's like imagine General Mattis and General Petraeus,

whatever they take the Marines in the Army, and they are now the government. So you get rid of Congress, you get rid of everything, and they are the law. So you don't have a president, you have a general. And so that's how Burma has been for decades. Well, again, under, when Obama was president, they had started making some sort of fake gestures

towards democracy and it was all sort of a farce, but to get sanctions relieved. And then once, you know, after COVID happened and everything, and, you know, of course, that messed with their country and everything as well, they basically in 2021 just got rid of any semblance of democracy. And so they were referring to it as a coup, but it really wasn't a coup. They were already in power. But the thing that was different about this particular coup was before the Burma Army had been oppressing all of the ethnic minority groups in the outskirts of the country that is of the territory of Burma so they could control it and they do all kinds of stuff trafficking drugs and they want to control the ethnic populations power for power's sake, all that kind of stuff. And so with

that complete loss of respect for these ethnic minorities, rape, murder, genocide on, you know, industrial scale is going on and everything. So anyway, the situation was very much different. Again, and I had been out of there for a little while because of my back injuries and stuff. And I was aware of this situation and I had sent other teams in without me and this was my first time back in. And so when, in a while, and so when I went back in, basically I spent the first month or so scouting out what was going on and you have to walk everywhere. So I spent the first month walking and seeing all of the different bad guy positions. So when I first get into the country, I have to go meet with the tribal leaders. So I got me with the tribal leaders, the democratically elected leaders of the tribe.

and then I have to, and sort of like the governors of those areas, and then I have to go meet with the military leaders there who were underneath the democratically elected tribal leaders. So a very similar system to ours under the Koren tribe, who I work with. So I spent time working, basically doing a whole bunch of meetings with these guys, and we were planning on bringing in a bunch of humanitarian aid and doing more medical training. And also, too, I wanted to see what the situation was there

and how we could improve our previous services. like, hey, the situation is different. Let's adapt. Let's get even better and more more services in here and see what we can do. So during that first week when I was in there, so we're dealing with a very, very remote area. So there's a handful of dirt roads and there's like a handful of people who actually own trucks and like we're one of those handfuls of people that owns a truck. And so we're driving along one day going from village to village in some of these meetings. And we were asked over the radio, hey, there's a lady in this, there's a lady in this one particular village. She needs to go to the clinic.

And so deep in the jungle, in this particular area, particular area of Burma where we work, there's another NGO. They set up a jungle clinic. And I mean, like, in a tent, the size of this studio here, they're doing, which is probably 25 by 12, maybe. Yeah, so not huge. They're doing, like, highly complex surgeries. They're doing C-sections.

they're doing all kinds of stuff. And it's all doctors from Burma who have like people who are from the city who are fully trained and they've gone to basically join the resistance. And so they're out there doing all these surgeries and doing all the stuff. And there's an American NGO that oversees all that. And they, for right now, for security reasons, they're not being super public because they have some operations in some other sensitive areas. But so anyway, this lady needed to get to that clinic and get met. medical care. And so we of course were like, yeah, of course, we'll stop. And so for her to get to this clinic, it would take her, if she was going to walk it, it would take her like two or three days of walking, right? But in our truck, we can get her there in about five hours or so through the, through these rough, very, very rough jungle roads. And you need like a proper truck. So anyway, she, we get to the village. She comes out. She has a local Karen medic lady like a, like a pregnancy nurse there. midwife?

Midwife, yeah. Excuse my ignorance. So he has a midwife there. I'm blown away. I can pull that term out of my ass. That's fantastic. Yeah, we're making this up as we go. We're doing good.

We're just making up words. And so basically we have to throw this lady in the back of the pickup truck because that's the only place for her. We can't lay her down in the vehicle. I forget exactly why. But basically, or she, the medic wanted her in the back so the medic could treat her. Anyway, so then we have to go through like four or five hours of driving through these bumpy roads.

And this lady, she's seven months. pregnant. She's been bleeding for the last 12 hours in her hut. And, you know, she's, it's not going well, right? So she's probably going to lose the baby. She might die. There's no medical care. This is the one place to go. So anyway, we get her to the medical clinic and, you know, we drop her off and, you know, I was like, okay, that's interesting. So I was asking, like, Bobo and the other leaders, I was like, I was like, what if we weren't here? Like, what if our truck wasn't here? Like, what would you have done? And they're like, yeah. There's nothing we could do. exactly. So I was like, okay, all right. So after this, I'd finished my meetings with the tribal

leaders. And so I ended up going on this like three or four week like deep scouting mission. We're talking like deep, deep into enemy control territory. We're talking like places where no outsider has been since World War II. We're talking like deep, deep scouting. And so my mission was to figure out, okay, what's the situation on the ground? How do we get medical care into these areas? how do we set up the logistics to make that happen? What do the people need? Where are the bad guys? Where are the good guys?

What's the safe ways for refugees to get out? And again, I knew I was going to be there for months. So I was like, all right, this is me gathering some essay on the area of operations I'd be working in. And so me and Bob, oh, we're going position to position to position. We're scouting out Burma army positions. We're scouting out the roads. And, of course, it's being escorted around by the local freedom fighters, by the Karen militia guys.

And so as we're going around, of course, we ended up several times getting into contacts with Burma Army and different things. And the Karen militia guys, like, yeah, I'm there scouting stuff out, but they're still do, they still have a job to do. So it's like, okay, cool, there's the white guy. Great. And then they're still going off and, you know, doing what they got to do, fighting, you're doing guerrilla fighting.

And so after this month of that, I get back to sort of the central tribal area and we go back to that clinic and it was a couple days before Christmas and this as we were leaving the clinic they stopped us to say hey there's a lady who just had a baby can you take her back to her village and I was like yeah I was like is it the same lady as before and they're like oh we don't know so anyway sure enough it was the same lady so she they had actually at this clinic had stabilized her for a month kept the baby in for a month and then had done some sort of emergency surgery and had been able to she'd been able to safely deliver the baby And then I was like, dude, hell yeah.

And all that they were asking, they said, hey, can you just drive us to the nearest village, like away from here? Just get us one step closer to home. And then we'll start walking village to village. And I was like, no, no, no, we're going to take you all the way there. I was like, we're getting you all the way there. So we took this lady and her baby all the way back to that village where we picked her up. And so it was a super, super long night.

But anyway, as we were coming back, me and Bobo, we'd just meet him in the car driving through the jungle. And I was like, hey, man, like, do we need to do an ambulance service? and he's like, yes, he's like, yes, yes. If we, it's like, if you have the money, it's like, we definitely need to do it. If you can do it. He's like, I don't know if you can do it. I was like, no, we're going to do it.

So at the time, my team wasn't in the field because I'd sent them back, or I'd sent them out so they could go do other stuff during Christmas and the holidays and stuff because we were still sort of in a fact-finding phase of our mission. And so I called the guys up and I was like, hey, guys, we need to start an ambulance service here in the jungle. And I'd also, these very forward locations where all this fighting is happening, I, I, had observed. I was like, hey, where do you guys take your patients? When civilians are hit by the mortars from the bad guys, when your guys are hit, where do you take people? And they're like, oh, we just,

you know, basically that one clinic, which is really, really far away. It's like days travel. That's your one clinic. That's it. That's all you got. So I'm like, okay, that, you know, that's, that's not great. So I was like, all right, we need to set up this ambulance service. So I call the guys, I was, hey, this is what we're going to do. And they were like, they're just stellar. Jason in particular, He's one of the guys who set this whole thing up. He's a former, he'd been in the Rangers, and he'd done a bunch of contracting and stuff. He's a, like, world-class skier, just like one of the best human beings you'll ever meet. Super humble, super quiet, but incredibly competent.

And just one of those guys where like, hey, man, can you figure this out? And he'll always figure it out. And you can send him anywhere in the world. And he's like, happy to do it and just loves figuring all this stuff out. So I was like, hey, man, can you set up ambulances here in the jungle? Because can you figure out how to do this? And he was like, yep. And I was like, I just need to make sure we have the money.

And I was like, yep, there's no issue there. We got plenty of support from our supporters. I was like, we've got this budgeted out, get it done. And so anyway, so they started working on that project and getting it all done. So while those guys were preparing supplies and everything to bring in these medical stuff, basically I went back out to one of these four locations, me and Bobo. We went back out to one of these four locations where there was a bunch of fighting and stuff going on. And when I got out there, I can't go into too much detail.

But basically there was this big fight was about. to happen between the Burma Army and the militia guys who were protecting their villages. And they knew that there was a particular group of, there was a particular outpost of bad guys, of Burma Army, and they knew that there was like a supply convoy coming through soon. And so they were like, yeah, we don't want you guys coming into our territory. This is a big deal. So there was this big battle that happened. And so as it was happening, I was there, of course, to give medical support and all that stuff.

So it was, you know, zero dark 30, right? It was like 4, 5 a.m. And this big battle erupts in the middle of the jungle. And we're in these villages. And it's, I think, think, we talk about Tropic Thunder. Think Tropic Thunder. And all those scenes think apocalypse now, all those platoon. Like that's visually what it looks like in those situations.

Yeah, we're not talking about like high-end first world country night vision goggle battles. No, no, no. No, no, no, no, none of that. Fuck. Yeah, so it's just tracer fire and just everything's going off. So the good guys, they attack the enemy position, who's of these guys who are coming through, coming through their territory. And so where I was at, I was located with one of the medics.

They had two medics with them, and they split them up into two different positions. And I was with one of the medics. And I talked with some of the medics, and one of the things that we do at Stronglow is we do medical training. Again, the T-T-R-C thing. And I was like, I was asking this. guy questions and it just seemed like he wasn't you know he he was like trained for sort of a clinical scenario and this was his first time he'd never treated anybody before and I'm like yeah if anybody gets hit like this guy's he's not he's not ready he's just not ready so I was there so

we're in this relative like what was supposed to be a relatively safe position that wasn't involved in the direct fight that was going on we're sort of there to respond and so the way the attack happened long story short there was confusion the Burma Army thought that the attack was coming from basically the direction where I was at, where me and like a handful of other guys were at. And so they started dumping all of their fire at us. And so we're laying on the ground. It was one of those, it was one of those firefights where, like, if you stick your hand up above your head, like it's going to get shot off as one of those deals. And so, and I'm watching these tracers go over my head and we're, you know, dive in and getting into

cover and they're dropping, they're shooting 40 millimeter at us. So if there's 40 millimeter grenades going off, it's just chaos. There's, it's just chaos. So in this battle, there's like hundreds of guys fighting. So imagine like hundreds, hundreds of guys fighting over us in, like, in a section of, in an area that's maybe like, like, less than like 500 square meters. Did you have your face painted with camouflage paint? I did not have my, no, I was wearing, yeah, I was all natural. Can we agree that this was a missed opportunity?

Yes, yes. If I had it, I should have put, I should have put mud on my face. That's what I should have done. So we're in this, these guys are fighting. And so anyway, the enemy thought that our position was where the attack was coming from, which was just absurd. And so anyway, we're taking heavy, heavy fire. The other units, they're taking fire. And it was just like an ambush attack kind of thing.

So we're fighting or we're not fighting. They're not fighting. And I did have to return fire a little bit. And I can't go into detail on that again. But what was your weapon of choice? So when I go into these places, they'll, in this, in particular, like in Burma, they'll let me carry, like the locals would give me like a pistol. So I had like a, like a, like just a nine millimeter beretta, like the boot camp gun, right? So you had a piece of shit.

So I that, well, I just want I normally carry. So when the fighting popped off, the enemy sort of responded in our direction and sort of surprised us with their position. And again, I know I'm being super vague. And I'm sorry, but I have to. Anyway, so basically I The medic who I was like this scared little medic I grabbed his AK and I was like There you know give me your AK

I was hoping you were popping up Thompson submachine gun or fucking Tommy gun or something like that They have they have M1 carbons from World War II Fuck yes So like there's guys and I've looked at him It's like spit out the clip Yeah the little clip Ting yeah yeah yeah yeah

Well no they have the carbine so I don't think the carbine does that That's the M1 Garand Oh you're right Yeah yeah M1 carbine yeah But I've looked at it It's such a distinctive noise, though, when it flies out. It's so great. Yeah.

But they have these, yeah, the M1 carbine, and I've looked at the dates on them, and some of them are made in 1943. What's that thing shooting at 308? No, that one is shooting something really small. I don't remember. The M1 Carbon is? The M1 Carbine. The M1 Garand, which is the one that you're thinking with a clip that ejects. I think that one's shooting, like, yeah, like a 760 or something.

Michael? Or 308. M1 Carbine. Ammo. Perfect. It's a little guy. Yeah. I wouldn't have guessed that actually.

Yeah. Really bizarre. I would have guessed it was bigger. Yeah. Really bizarre. 30 Cal? 30 Cal. Hmm.

Okay. Yeah. So anyway, this is all popping off. Yeah. All the stuff's going on. And of course, you know, this is pitch dark in the fog. It is the most, it was the most, and I've been in a, you know, a few shootouts in my day. And, you know, in Iraq was,

with ISIS and just the urban fighting in there and stuff. This was like the most concentrated insane amount of violence I had seen in such a small area. It was just, it was incredibly, incredibly violent. And anyway, so one of the, we got heard over the radio, one of the guys had been shot, one of our guys had been shot, and he was with the other unit, with the other medic, and I was like, okay, so there's nothing I can do about it. And then we sort of withdrew back to to safety. And so it took about two hours. I kept on asking for the status updates of that patient. Basically, it took about two hours for them to drag this guy. And we had actually given them a Skedko litter and trained them on how to use it. And so they had dragged this guy for

about two hours, crossed a river, got this guy through the jungle. Had to do all kinds of crazy stuff. Yeah. And so I go to look at the patient. And so it's this young guy, you know, young soldier, or, you know, mid-20s or whatever. And I'm looking at him. He's laying on the Skedko. And I look at his face. First thing, I look at his face. And he's got that ashen look on his face. And I'm like, oh, this dude's going to die. Like he doesn't have much long. Almost out of hydraulic fluid. Yeah, exactly. But then I look at his leg and I go, I'm like, he's just been shot in the leg.

Why is he about to die from being shot in the leg? And I look, and they had put two tourniquets on him on his thigh. So he'd been shot in the knee, basically. And so they'd put two tourniquets on his thighs. But they were like bandana tourniquets. So they're not actual real tourniquets. And they were using like sticks as windlasses to tighten the tourniquet down. And I was like, oh, no, no, no, no.

So it was not stopping the bleeding. It was slowing the bleeding. It wasn't stopping it. But the other thing, too, was they hadn't exposed the wound. So they hadn't actually looked at it. the injury. So the medics hadn't actually looked at the injury. So I get all my trauma shares. I cut open his pants and I look and sure enough I can see the exit wound and there's bone fragments. So it's obviously hit bone. It's shattered. His femoral arties definitely severed.

There's all kinds of damage in there. And I can see, it's not like spurting, but I can see blood still pumping out of his leg actively. And when I cut open his pants, so he was laying down on, you know, on the ground or on the skedco. And so when I opened up his pants with the scissors, I mean, probably a liter and a half of blood just dumped right out. And I was like, no, no, no, no. So I immediately pull out my tourniquet, my personal tourniquet, put it on him. And I watch his face. And, of course, he's like screaming in pain from the, from the tourniquet.

And I was like, good. I was like, that's what it's supposed to do. Three more turns and we're there, buddy. Exactly. Almost done, man. Almost done. You just started screaming, three more. Exactly.

Yeah. So I get that done. And as I look at his face, he's screaming. I'm like, right, good. I keep going, I keep going until I see the blood stop and whatnot. So now keep in mind, there's no medevac. nothing. So this guy's been shot in the knee. You are, if you were to, to walk or drive or whatever, it's like, it's like a day to get to this clinic where you're going to get actual

proper medical care. And so they, there was a, one of the local civilians somewhere in the area, one of the villagers had like a some kind of a cart, like a little truck cart thing, not ruggedized at all. But they basically threw him on the back of that and we're like, hey, we're going to evacuate him out to this particular area, which is super remote and I'd been through that area before during my scouting missions and I was like, this seems like really far away, but they were like, that's what they were going to do. And then both of the medics, so this group of soldiers had only had two medics with them, and those two medics both get in the vehicle to go with him.

And this, and I ended up coming back to, this came back to haunt me within a couple hours, but I said, I was like, hey, I was like, you shouldn't send both medics, whatever, but, you know, like, I'm not in charge, so they're just like, whatever, man. So they send both medics, and I should have put my foot down. I should have been like, hey, like, no, get one of those guys out of there. Because it wasn't just the medic. It was like they had all the medical supplies with them. They had all the IVs and all that stuff.

So I'm like, I'm literally the only dude with like a proper med kit. And I don't have, again, I don't have IVs or anything. And I've got one tourniquet left. Anyway, so the two medics leave with that guy. And then, so there's still a little bit of fighting going on as the Burma army. They're moving their wounded and stuff. So there's some mortars. There's some spratics, small arms fire.

There's like some sniping and stuff going on. Nothing super crazy, but there is stuff happening. And so I'm taking, so I'm hanging out in this village. And again, like I said, I had two interpreters. One was Bobo, who was with me the whole time. He was with me during the fight. They were like when we were under attack, incredibly brave guy. He was a, he was a veteran from, he had served in that in the, in the Karen military as well. He'd been wounded and like just really courageous guy. He stuck with me the whole time. And like I said, he's like, this is like one of my best friends in the world who we've spent so much time together. And so anyway, I'm, I'm in

the village. I'm debriefing with some of the guys, some of the, some of the, of the other tribal guys. And of course, everyone's talking about the fighting and what's going on. So everybody's adrenaline's up. And so then Bob O comes up to me. He says, hey, I want to go. There was a group of guys that were going to go blow up a bridge. He's like, hey, can I go watch them blow up this bridge?

And I was like, yeah, go for it. I was like, I'm good. I've got another interpreter here. And we're just kind of hanging out. There's not much I can do. So he leaves. And then about 30, 40 minutes later, we hear this huge explosion goes off. And this bridge is blown.

And there's, you know, again, there's fighting and stuff around the bridge and these other places. and so then 10 seconds after we heard the explosion, not even 10 seconds, we hear it on the radio. I don't speak the local language, but basically they were saying, hey, this, you know, Bobo's been hit, Bobo's down. And so I asked my interpreter, I was like, hey, dude, is he, like, is it bad? And he was like, yeah, apparently it's really bad.

He's been hit in the head from the shrapnel, from the explosion going off. Oh, shit. Yes. So. It's called minimum safe distance. Dude. Yeah, you won't believe it. And get behind a fucking tree.

and get down and just get down all of that stuff yeah so I so I I was like okay I'm the only medic and I'm not even a medic but I'm the only chance he has so myself and a couple guys it takes us about 45 minutes to get out to out to where he's at my interpreter and then a couple guys who basically were assigned to me as like security make sure the make sure the white guy doesn't do anything crazy right so I get to him and as I as I walk up to him there's a group of people around him they sort they've already kind of bandaged his head but not very well like part of his, I can see part of his brains are hanging out. He's still alive. He's breathing relatively normal. His pulse is pretty big, or is pretty rapid, but he's laying there on the ground,

and so he was wearing, you know, his stronghold rescue and relief shirt because he worked with us, and he, his shirt was completely soaked in blood, and it was covered in vomit, because he had been vomiting a bunch of rice. And so obviously lots of blood and, like, some of his brain as well, kind of scattered around the area. And so, again, All the medics are gone. You know, in hindsight, I know that even if the medics had been there, they really wouldn't have been able to save his life. But still, just the principle was the fact that we didn't even give him a full shot

because I didn't make sure that one of those medics had stayed, you know? I'm not so sure if there had been an ER physician with full access to their tools, they would have been able to save this guy's life. Yeah, no, exactly. Exactly. But, I mean, it's like, you just still got to make sure you give everyone. You got to make sure you do everything you can to give him at least the best shot possible. So I still feel guilty about that.

But so there's the fighting is going on kind of off in the background. The Burma Army is kind of figuring out like what the hell this bridge just got blown up. Like what's going on, right? So now we have to medevac this guy. So this is our entire mission. Everything we've been doing is about doing medevacs and basically getting people out of this situation. And it's like, and I was like, oh my God, now I have to do it. And I have to, you know, go through this entire sort of process with watching my friends slowly die.

and so at this point I think it was the same vehicle that had dropped off the other patient that the other guy had been shot in the leg came back and we loaded Bobo into there and I actually had another Skedco so we ended up using both Skedcoes that day so we threw him on a skedgad, ratchet him down and I told a couple of the Karen guys were with me I was like, listen he's going to vomit again when he vomits you need to tip the you need to tip the skedco clear his airway don't let him choke on the vomit or else he'll die before we can give a chance. So for like the next hour we're driving in this truck. Keep in mind, it's like 100 degrees midday.

And we're in the back of this truck. And so Bobo, what he would do was he would start kicking his leg, his right leg. So his left side of his body was paralyzed and he'd been hit on the right side of the head. So that made sense. And he was unconscious, but breathing well and everything. But he would start kicking his right leg. And where I was at in the back of the truck was right next to his right leg. So he would start violently kicking his right leg.

leg and I just thought it was just some sort of um you know neurological symptom or something yeah yeah exactly and so so he would do that but then he so he would kick like that and then and then we would start to see him gag so we'd tip him over and he would vomit in the back of this truck and then we'd put him back down and we go for a little while and myself and the other guys the other uh the three other karenn guys who I was with we're just looking at each other you know there's not there's nothing much to say it's like we've all been through a lot together we've all traveled together and And, you know, like this is, like, we like love and respect. This guy, Bobo, he's like, they all call him uncle, you know, and obviously I call, you know, call

him friend. So we were able to take the vehicle for about an hour, and then that was as far. And then basically the road ends, and they actually got stuck trying to take it even further, but the road ended. They got the vehicle stuck, which was fine. And so I'm like, okay, now, like the four of us, we're going to have to drag this dude for miles to the next road. and I'm like, this is, I was like, this is not going to be a good day.

But like, we're going to get it done. I was, in my brain, I was literally going to like hell weak mode. Yeah. Where it's like, all right, time doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Just go. Just go.

We should define what a Skedco is, too, so people understand what it is physically is required. Yeah. So a Skidco is basically a large piece of plastic that's, um, that basically you can make it into a litter. And so there's handles and stuff. There's, um, cloth handles and stuff built into it. And what's great about this litter is because it's plastic. It's like very, very hard plastic.

You can roll it up and you can take it with you on combat operations. So you don't have to carry these big, bulky stretchers. You can actually carry it. Yeah, perfect. There we go. Notice the extreme level of cushioning in it as well for the patient. Yeah. So it's literally just a...

For those of you who are on the audio only, it's fucking plastic. Yeah. It's a piece of fun. It feels like this table. Yeah. You're going to feel everything as you're getting dragged across the table. You're going to feel the pebble. Yes.

And it's the plastic, it does. slide well. But son of a bitch, man, even on the training exercises where you get thrown in one of these things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It sucks. Yep. Imagine having a fucking opened head wound. Yeah. Dude. Exactly. You have an open head wound. And so we had like go through miles and we knew we were going to have to cross miles. So, you know, the tribe that I'm helping the Karen tribe, they're like these very kind, gentle, wonderful people. I call them hobbits. They're just like the hobbits from Lord of the Rings. Super racist. Just imagine, imagine Asian hobbits with with with rifles trying to protect their,

their village. Double racist, man. You called him Asian hobbits. It's just like culturally appropriation. All of that stuff. I'm not even sure. Gandalf's would be really, really angry with me.

A lot of isms. Yeah, a lot of isms. But just like the sweetest, kindest people. So anyway, we get to where the road ends, and the villagers had heard that Babo had been injured. And so I counted it. There were 26 men from the village, stopped what they were doing and came out there to help carry.

And so I was like almost volunteers was like, oh my God, like, thank you guys. Like, thank you so much. And so we got him off the truck and the guys were standing around. So I had the interpreter and I explained the guys, like, here's a Skedko, carry it so we can move quicker and rotate. You can have six guys on it. And so we ended up having 26 guys helping rotate as we walked miles and miles and miles across this open area through the jungle in like 110 degree heat, you know. That's more, that sounds more doable than dragging it with like four to six guys. Sounds as astronomically more.

Yeah. Like what you're describing is going to absolutely suck, but that's, that's doable. Yeah. It was incredibly doable. And the guys, so the great thing was that we never stopped. We were able to just keep going and going and going. And as we were going and doing this, I took a few, I insisted on taking a few rounds, but like with carrying, but the guys were like, these villagers, like, they're very calm.

They're like, they were like, almost violent with me. And they're like, no, dude, we're carrying this for you. Like out of honor. Like, no, no, no. you're here to help us and we're going to help care him. So we get him to the next place where there's another road and there's another truck there waiting for us. He's stable the whole time being cured. So he's relatively stable.

I mean, he continues to vomit. So we'll stop. We'll tip him over. And so again, he's doing this right leg kick thing. And sometimes he's bringing up his right arm trying to rip his bandage off of his head. He's unconscious, non-responsive to any kind of stimulant. And so we get him to this next road and we start walking down the road. Eventually this other truck meets us.

We'd be getting him in the back of that truck. And then now we get him in the back of that truck. we continue on hours and hours back deeper into the jungle. And as we're going along, now the sun is setting. It's like six or seven hours later, just constant go, go, go, go, with no breaks and just, you know, trying to get them as quickly as possible. So we meet an actual real, like, legit medic there. And in the middle of the jungle, as the sun is setting.

And he puts a O2 sat on his finger, on Bobbo's finger. And basically it was his O2sats were so low that it wasn't even registering. And so as we were driving in this truck, again, he kept on kicking. his leg. And as we went deeper and deeper into the jungle, I was resigning myself to the fact. I was like, oh, he's not going to make it. Like, you know, up until that point, I'd kind of been in denial. I was like, oh, maybe, like, maybe he'll make it. But at this point, I knew it wasn't going to happen. So he would kick his leg. And what I, the horrible part of the story, like the worst, the worst part, is I eventually realized. So he would kick his leg violently. And at one point, I just reached out and

grabbed his leg and just rubbed his chin and was like, hey, man, it's okay. You know, just trying to comfort him a little bit. When I did that, he stopped kicking. And I didn't think anything of it at the moment. And then a couple minutes, like, he started kicking violently again. And I rubbed his leg. And as soon as I would rub his leg and talk to him, he would stop kicking. And he would stop trying to rip the bandage off his head. So I don't know exactly what that means. And I spoke with a doctor about it later. I was like, so there was some, he was still conscious in some sort of way and was like paralyzed, but like knew what was going on and could clearly feel what was going on. He could feel the pain in his head because he was trying to rip his bandage off. And every time I rubbed his leg, he would,

excuse me, he would stop kicking. So anyway, I'm watching like my best friend slowly die. And we get to the, we get to this medic and I talk with him. And basically I said, what's the chances that he'll survive? And he said there's a 20% chance that he'll survive just the night. He's like, he's not going to make it. And so at that point, I'd been, you know, trying to keep myself together at that point, I knew I had to say, so at that point I had to make a decision. My decision was, do I continue on with Bobo all the way to the clinic, or do I go back to the guys who are, who have no medic now? The fighting is going to continue on, and they have no, they have nobody there. And so I made the decision. I told the guys I was with, I was like, hey, we're going back.

We're going to go back and provide medical support to these dudes because they have no one, and the medics are gone. And obviously, there's a chance we're going to take more casualties. you. So at that point, I knew Babbo was going to die. And so I just held his feet and I just we said goodbye to him. And then we hopped in a truck, me and the other, other Karen guys, and then we repeated the entire trip that we had just done. We repeated it in the dark all the way back to this frontline area. And the village I was staying in, you know, I got maybe two hours asleep that night, maybe, not even. And the next morning I got up. And as soon as I walked out of this hut, they looked at me and said, hey, Bobo just passed away 20 minutes ago, and they'd heard

that through the radio relays and stuff. So I immediately, I knew that was going to happen. So I immediately started telling, basically having messages dispersed to his family, I know his wife and other people who know him very well, I started dispatched, basically dispatching messages to them. And then that's when things got crazy. So I was sitting there dispatching messages and I heard this pop noise. And to me, it sounded like a distant, just like, single rifle shot. I was like, oh, there's like a sniper somewhere in the distance or something. And then the other part of me was like, no, dude, that sounds like a mortar. I was like, no, there's no way that's a mortar, you know, because like the bad guys aren't here. Well, as soon as the

thought was out of my head, boom, mortar goes off in the village. And I'm like, oh, that's not good. So I look at the other guys and then boom, boom, boom, mortars just started dropping and 40 millimeter grenades started exploding in this village that we were in. And then rifle fire started kicking off from the direction where we knew the bad guys were. They were counter attacking. They were coming in force to clear the village. And at this point, like, all the civilians were gone because of the fighting and stuff the day before. So I run back to my tent and, or I run back to my hut.

I start packing up all my gear and everything. We don't have the ability to resist them at this point. Like, it's, it's very strange, like I said, have been in a lot of different situations and especially being in the U.S. military. I was never in a situation where I was like, oh, dude, we might lose. but this was like in a situation where like oh we did we lost checkmate game over we have to get out of here and so I pack up my gear my backpack my backpack and everything I actually was able to grab a rifle just in case you know I needed to use it and so the the crescendo of incoming fire doubled and

the amount of small arms fire at the edge of the village doubled and tripled as well as the Burma army was advancing and they're sort of assaulting into our village and so things were blown up up everywhere. The local commander who I was with, he came up to me and said, hey, somebody's been shot. Like one of our guys has been shot up at the front and another guy has been killed. And so he showed me a picture of the guy who had just been killed because he had been up there and had taken a photo of the guy. And it was one of the guys who had been in my squad the day before when the fighting had happened and we were, you know, when I was with the medical team and all that stuff. He'd taken a round right through the forehead and obviously had been killed instantly.

like 26 years old guy had been a school teacher before the coup and had joined to try to reestablish democracy in his country, right, and defend his people. And so this was the first time of my life where I experienced this true fear and understanding of there's no resisting the onslaught of what's happening, you know, you can resist a little bit, but it's going to do you no good, so you have to get out of there. And so mortars are coming in, machine guns are going off, all that fire is come in heavy. I see the local guys there. I can see the panic in their eyes because they've been in these kind of situations before. They're like, oh, this is not good. So we end up having to evacuate out of the village. We fall back through the village. I was never able to see that one

particular patient. I was actually, I went to the back of the village and was like, hey, I'm going to set up a CCP here, bring me the patients. But they were like, no, dude, like we're leaving the village. We'll get the patient out somewhere else. Like, we need to get the hell out of here. So we started withdrawing out of the village as these mortars and stuff are coming in. Also, at the time, there was a fighter jet circling above us, but the Burma Army has migs, has Russian migs. So there's a mig circling above us the whole time waiting for us to kind of run out into the open so that they could come in and bomb us and know exactly where we were. And so as we pulled back out of the village, the local defense guys, they had, they, they were basically able to stop the,

how do I say this? They had some tricks up their sleeve and were able to stop the bad guys from advancing all the way through and totally, totally taking the village. They inflicted some pretty heavy casualties with some well-placed explosives. And the Burma Army only took basically half of the village and eventually like a day or two later retreated out of the village. So what was weird, that was weird, but later on I had time to be introspective and think about it all. Basically, like two days later, I was back at the central location for this tribe, tribal

headquarters, and they were doing a funeral for Babo and all that. and so I finally was able to get some sleep and kind of think through everything and what I realized was like you know that fear I was feeling of being in this village and this horrible onslaught of this army coming through to crush you

and there's nothing you can really do to resist it unless you get lucky which we kind of did it was like you know I was like there's women and kids and these guys and these old villagers and some of the villagers who lived in that village they would come and like bring us food and stuff

and they were like oh there's a white man here in the village they'd come and like randomly bring me fruit and stuff and because they just wanted to be nice to me. And so I experienced a little bit of what they experienced. And I'd experienced the horrible lack of medical care for evacuations and for when there's these situations. And I was like, man, it was just a reaffirmation of, or an affirmation of like, hey, this is why I'm here. This is what I'm here to do.

This is why I'm supposed to be here. And so we pulled back out of the village and I was able to get to safety. nobody else was killed. None of the good guys, no more of the good guys were killed on that particular day. So that was good. And then a couple days later,

they did like a military funeral for Bobo, which was awful. You know, his wife was there and everything. And then the good part of the story, though, is that the other guys were coming in. The other guys from the team, they were going to be coming in soon. And so they showed up soon with trucks

and oxygen tanks and all of these things and a full like med load out in the back of these off-road trucks and everything and like beds in them and they did an incredible job and they figured out how to get it done and they got it done. And so I was...

You're talking about the jungle ambulances. I'm talking about the stronghold jungle ambulances. Yeah. The ones that we had just basically built out of nothing. And when I say we, I mean, the other guys on the team because I basically had nothing to do with it except for signing the checks

and giving thumbs up or thumbs down on certain questions. That's a pretty big part of it. It's part of it. One requires the other. One does require the other. Yeah. And so it was great to see those guys and we started working on the ambulance.

So we finally had the ambulances ready to go. And they were like, hey, the first ambulance is good to go. The second ambulance was not yet. We were waiting for some supplies and stuff. But these guys were able to figure out how to get like 02 tanks, like full-blown O2 tanks in there, like strapped in the back of it all safely and all this. And it was just, they did an incredible job. and advanced life support stuff in there.

And so the first ambulance was ready, and they were, we're good to go with the first ambulance. So on that same day, just so happened that one of the American volunteers at this clinic that we were working at, where we were basing out of with these ambulances, he just nonchalantly mentioned, he's like, oh yeah, this, some wounded soldier just got brought in.

You know, some guy had been shot in the leg. And keep in mind, this is three weeks later. This is three weeks after that. battle. So I thought, oh, that's interesting. Like, where was he hit? And he's like, oh, I don't know. And I was like, okay. So I went down to check on this, on this wounded soldier. And I walk into this hut, like a hut where the patients are laid out. And it's the same guy who I put a tourniquet on three weeks earlier. And he's sitting there pale and emaciated and obviously in a lot of pain. And I was like, oh, my goodness. And so the doctors and everybody, he had just been brought in

like an hour prior to that. So the doctors were doing initial assessments on him. And and we're checking everything out. And yeah, so I went, and I was like, oh, yeah, I know this guy. And so I spoke with them about what had happened, and I explained to them all the stuff. And they were like, yeah, basically he's going to lose his leg. And they had to get him evacuated out of the country to the international Red Cross to take care of him because they don't have the – they can't do amputations and things like that in that particular situation. So full circle, this guy who needed evacuated out of the country, who was very unstable, needed a medic to be –

going with him, he was the very first patient who we transported in our ambulances. He was the very first patient, this guy who I had treated three weeks earlier and transported him and got him, got him to the International Red Cross, and I believe he's fine now. They had amputate his leg, but he's okay. And so it was just, it was this obviously very strange sort of full circle, how it all ended up happening. And this, and then about a week and a half ago, I got a photo of, So our guys report to us, we have Corinne guys who actually run the ambulances, who are trained on it all. So again, what we do at Stronghold is we're all about, we call it charity with dignity.

It's like we will give you the skills and the equipment you need and we'll show you how to organize, but we want you to help your own people. We want you to have the only way it's sustainable. The only way it's sustainable. And so exactly. So my entire team was out of the country and we got a, we got a report and a bunch of photos of a soldier. This was like, again, like a week and a half ago, who had been hit by a more.

in his leg, in his knee. His knee had been shattered and like a huge chunk taken out. And it was a picture of our guys loading him into our ambulance at the farthest forward point that they could in the same direction where the battle had happened where Bobo had been hurt and all that stuff.

And so they loaded this guy into our ambulance, got him to the clinic. And I got video later of this guy getting taken out into the clinic and he was going into shock. And I talked with the American doctors later and they said, had this guy arrived 30 minutes later, He had been done.

He had been done. And the only reason he had survived is because you guys had this ambulance in place. And so it was a very similar injury from the very similar place. And so you can immediately see. And also, too, that guy had a tourniquet on him. The tourniquet that had stopped the bleed was tourniquets that we had given the guys. So we had strongholded provided a bunch of tourniquets, trained the guys how to use them. So they'd applied turniquets properly, the ones that we supplied them, evacuated the guy on our Skedco, got him into our ambulance, brought him in there.

And had we been 30 minutes slower, he'd be dead. And he's alive as well, and they had to evacuate him and amputate his leg. But yeah, so that's, that's, and this is all just over the last couple of months. This is, right before I was going to say, when did Babbo die? Like how long ago? January. Fuck, man. That is not too far in the rearview mirror.

No. First week of April right now, so we're recording this. Yeah. So how long have you been home? A couple weeks. Yeah. Dude, and listening to you tell your story, like my mind, my thoughts keep going back to these people in the U.S. who want Civil War.

Mm-hmm. They don't know what they're talking about. That's it. I just, every time that I hear somebody mention that or write about it or I see a fucking video, like, we'll fight it out in the streets. It's like you have no fucking idea what you're talking about.

No, zero idea. Yeah. Yeah. Again, going back to the beginning of our conversation, we were joking about tanks in the streets and fighting the Chinese in Red Dawn. Yeah, like that's the reality of it, man. People, people don't. understand war. And so there's, there's a good thing. There's a good thing. There's a good thing.

Exactly. One of my, one of my cousins, she once told me I was telling her stories and just telling her what was going on this a couple of years ago. And she said, she's like, she's like, I'm so sorry. She's like, I just don't understand what you're talking about. She's like, I just, she's like, I wish I understood what you were talking about when you were talking about these war and these things that you're talking about. And I told her, I said, no, no, no, I'm glad that you don't know. I'm glad that you don't understand because it means that we're doing our job correctly. And so again, with, with our mission with strong hold is the thing is like here in America, it's like you have, you have J-Soc and the entire U.S.

military to protect you and come get you if something goes wrong. These other people, they have nobody. They have nobody to come help them. They don't have Rangers and Seals and anybody to come help them. They don't have medical care. They don't even have a truck to pick them up when their, when their wife is, when their pregnant wife is bleeding out in their hut. They have nothing.

And so, you know, our mission there is to fill that gap, is to use the skills that we have and to organize and to go there and to help these people. And it's what's also not cool about it. It's sad, but it's a good thing about it is when we go into these situations, because there's nothing there, you can have this massive, massive, massive impact with the most basic,

with the most basic sort of intervention, right? Basic training, a basic ambulance. And it's like, we've transported, the ambulances have been running for, I think it was like February 1st or something, something around that time was the time where we transported that, that wounded soldier or something like that. Anyway, point is,

it's only been a couple months and we've got, we've already transported hundreds of patients, hundreds with our two ambulances. We have two. And here actually, next week I'm going back. So I'm basically only here in the U.S. to come on the podcast and a couple other podcasts and things like that. Otherwise, that's still be over there.

And I'm going back and we're putting in a third ambulance and we're putting in a boat ambulance as well. Interesting. Yeah, so that'll be another interesting project as well. And we're also building a road that is connecting some of the other roads so that way our ambulances can quickly get to different people. There was a guy, a civilian last week. He was hit by shrapnel from the Burma Army bombing his village and a 70-year-old man. And so the road we're building is going directly to where the bombing had happened and near that area. And luckily, he survived long enough. They were able to carry him out. He got to our

ambulances and unfortunately he died like a week later but we got him to the hospital we were able to evacuate him but um you know there's so much more that that needs to get done and we're going to continue continue to do that um but yeah so like i said i'll be back i'll be back there in like a week what are you looking at from an organization beyond burma um so right now i'm i'm trying to be wise with how we do what we do i want to make sure that every every project that we do has the most like impact that we can have right so there's a lot of people that we're want our help. There's a lot of people that ask for our help, and we do plan on helping more and more people in more and more locations. Right now, we obviously have a huge open door in Burma,

and we're already at max capacity as far as our management capability. I literally just hired somebody yesterday was technically her first day, no, yeah, yesterday was technically her first day to help with manage operations and help manage all of the backend stuff. So like we're growing and the complexity of the work that we're doing is growing. And so there's a, I don't want to, well, that's a long way of saying, I don't want to, to expand too fast and go to 15 different places because now we're not really serving anybody. So right now we're going to double and triple down on Burma. And then we're also going to start doubling and tripling down on our efforts in Africa, working with the anti-poaching rangers

and see where that goes. Because I know there's a lot of different, even just during the two weeks that we were there, people got wind, like, got wind, like, hey, there's competent Americans out here who aren't running around with guns who are coming with free medical stuff and are willing to go in the field and, you know, don't care. I are willing to. and go, you know, get chased by rhinos and they'll do this stuff. And they're like... Fuck that, by the way. Yeah, absolutely.

That was... So anyway, there's lots of groups that want our help already in Africa. Yeah, funny thing with the rhino thing. As we were walking in, that was exactly my thought the whole time. As I'm walking behind the South African tracker, we're walking through the bush. And I'm just like, dude, if I get killed by a freaking rhino, my mom is going to be so mad. Like, I'm going to be so mad. Yeah.

I'll make fun of you. Also, don't pet a hippopotamus. They're fucking savage. Yeah, this is what here, oh, yeah, at the river when we were in Africa, right there at the river that we were sleeping next to, so maybe 50 meters from the edge, we're sleeping maybe 50 meters from the edge of the river in like our tents. Yeah, and there was like a whole family of hippopotamuses or hippopotamai, whatever. Dude, they'll eat your face. And giant crocodiles, yeah. The crocodiles will eat your face too.

Hippos people think are like the white rhino. Right, right, right. They fuck shit up. Yeah, yeah, they'll attack your boats. They murk people every year. That's what they say. Like that's the biggest killer is the hippos because they'll be under the water. And so villagers will be out fishing or just in whatever.

And then this hippo will come up out of nowhere and just, yeah, just smoke people for no reason. My buddy, A.G. owns Toehold. And he gets leathers ethically sourced a lot of the times he's working with organizations in Africa. He got a hold of a hide of a hippo that murdered somebody and made a person of it. No kidding fucking murder hippo purse Wow That's what I'm talking about Did he sell it or how to

Oh fuck yeah What do you do that? Yeah like who's I'd buy that shit I'd buy that shit Put that here on the table Part of your display Yeah

I mean If not that you would I mean I'm not gonna judge If you'd carry a purse Not to your face by the way Yeah yeah yeah But if you had a choice If you were gonna carry a purse

If I was gonna carry a purse If I was gonna care a purse Yeah yeah What are you going with I'm going with the murder hippo purse Fuck yes For sure Every type

Probably bulletproof Kind of tactical a little bit. It just has a story. Maybe stab proof. I like accessory pieces that have a story of their own. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so that helps tell part of your story and what matters to you.

Yeah, exactly. Very artistic. How old do you know? I'm 30. I'm 30 years old now. Yeah. Do you have any aspirations for wife, kids? Oh, yeah, absolutely.

I do. I do. Yeah, I definitely look forward to that. Your current lifestyle is going to be prohibitive for a lot of those things. I'm curious how. long you're going to, how long do you think you'll be the guy in the field? My plan right now is to get stronghold set up to maybe five or six years from now be able to, over time, slowly kind of be able to put people in strategic positions and that way I don't have to always be the guy in the

field. I've been shot at enough. I'm done. I'm over it. But I know I continue, I have to, I have to continue to go into these positions to help people and because it's the work that has to get done. And the more that stronghold grows, the more supporters we have, the more that we're able to do this. The more veterans I can hire, the more guys I can bring in, give them good jobs that are using their skills out there, helping people. And then the more I can kind of backtrack a little bit, or not backtrack a little bit, but focus more on being home and being more settled and being able to have a family and all that. Because I definitely do want that. Like, I love kids and would love to have a family and all that. Yeah, you're just, I mean, you're to phase of your life.

Everybody goes through that phase of life too, I think. I think some people make the mistake of trying to do both at the same time, which is not impossible. Or you're talking about being in the field and then also having family. Yeah, yeah, well, you see an old occupation too. You know, people who become, they have two marriages. They're married to the job and then they have a wife that they're married to as well and a family that they check in with from time to time. Some people manage it better than others, but I think could you do both at the same time? Yeah, how much...

Possible. Yeah. Well, so I'm also in this unique situation where I'm actually, I do have a girlfriend. We, I've only recently been in an official relationship. But she's actually from the same tribe that I work with in Burma. But she grew up, she was, lived in a refugee camp until she was like 11. And then she grew up in Canada. And then I actually met her working at that clinic in Burma.

and it was just, yeah, exactly. So she wants, so she wants to be back there continuing to help, but also she wants us to be able to split her time between, you know, the, you know, so obviously we're very, you know, it's very, you know, we're very early in our relationship, but, you know, it's like, oh, you know, if that works out, it's like, you know, best case scenario, great, now I have someone we can work together on a lot of these things. And, you know, she wants to be involved in the medical field and it's like, perfect, you know. Well, I asked the question about age and your aspirations later in life because you are,

you're like in a transmit only phase of your life to use a radio analogy and you are transmitting like what you're doing is fucking amazing right the time and energy and effort that you're putting into it i would hope for nothing less for you than you to get to a receive phase in your life where you can be the recipient of the fucking goodwill that you're putting out into the world and find an amazing person because i do think it is part of living a fulfilling life as well right you can only be transmitted for, like there's got to be a, I guess it comes back down the balance. Yep. Yep. Well, the funny thing is too, I, um, not, not, I totally understand exactly what you're saying because for me, it's like, I'm like, for me, it's like I feel it. Like, I'm

also kind of pushing that edge as well. Like, um, again, I'm out there just trying to help people, but it's like, I end up in these combat situations and I didn't even go through all of them. And I end up in these situations where it's like, I'm watching my friends die and I'm watching this stuff happen. And it's continuing on and it's only going to continue on. And it's like, I've got, you know, uh, nightmares and all kinds of, all kinds of stuff, you know, that I'm dealing with as well. And I'm intentional by dealing with it. I'm not sitting there, pretend like I'm bulletproof and pretending like nothing's happening. Because like, obviously, you can't go through all this stuff and it not affect you. Um, you can't if you're a sociopath.

Yeah, you can't have your sociopath. That is, that is not me. A medical sociopath. Yeah. Um, but it was actually after, after, uh, Bobbo died, I, um, you know, I, in my heart, I was like, I'm going to double and triple down on helping these people because of just, their courage and what they're doing, and those 26 men from that village just showed up to help carry him. And the need that is there and having experienced what it's like to be under a Burma Army mortar barrage in a defenseless village, you know. I would have gone the other way with that. What's that? Oh, I'm going to get the heck out of here.

No, I'm going to go murder all those motherfuckers. Well, see, I would love to. I would love to, but I'm also, I know also know I'm not Rambo. I'm not Rambo either, but I would try. But you could try. Yeah. Well, I have the sneaking suspicion that I'll be in, you know, in situations where that opportunity will present itself from time to time, unfortunately.

But yeah. You've got to be careful of that one too, right? Yeah. All that stuff, you already alluded to it a little bit. I mean, everything that you're doing is it's got a fingerprint to it. And every time you're in that environment, it's going to leave a little bit of an impression on you. Yeah.

And, yeah, I hope that you're doing everything you can to take care of yourself as well. Because, again, you're transmitting, right? You're pushing and helping other people. If you're not careful and you don't keep track of the weight that'll add up an ounce at a time, it might become unbearable at some point. The community of people we come from is the suicide rate is insane. Yeah. You know, and I don't think it's necessarily because of the things that we saw.

I think it has a lot to do with the physical environment of being around those things as well. The concussive environment, the TBI type stuff. You know what I mean? I think it's both. loss of community is I think it's huge as well loss of community yeah well and you might you're probably going to struggle with that a little bit too you know you're going from a direct like fingers in the mud to I'm sure you'll transition out of it

but there might be a point in time where you have to hang it up you know which is not going to be easy yeah absolutely and that's something I'm actually I'm actually very cognizant of right now I'm already thinking like what what would what what would I do next um what would that look like how would I take care of my family, all that, all that kind of stuff. So there's, there's definitely a thought process that I have going on there. Yeah, I guess one of the thing we could kind of get into as well, I didn't talk about it at a time, but I feel like I should now that we're kind of going deep into stuff here. So I, so during, when I, when I, when I, when I injured my back in

2020, I ended up going through a major, major, major, major, depressive point. I was never, I was never actually suicidal. But, so at the time, like, like, Stronghold was like, doing okay and thanks to your audience and Mike Ritland's audience for keeping, basically keeping it breathing. But I was so depressed and angry and had a lot of bitterness and anger from Afghanistan, from Iraq, from my time in the teams, just from a lot of different stuff. And I felt very isolated. And it was, I went through a really, really, really bad period. And it manifests itself. And a lot of times it guys manifest stuff in addiction. Guys get addicted to different things. And for me, for years, I had actually been addicted to this is, it's, it's

embarrassing, it's kind of funny. But I basically got addicted to like bread and sweets, which I know sounds like absurd. And it's like, you know, that if you look at them from just a chemical perspective. I mean, sugar, 60% of the United States is fucking obese. Yeah, exactly. It's, those substances are addictive. Yeah, yeah, they are. They think they're not used accidentally either. Right. Shockingly enough, I believe that part of the business model for breadmakers is selling more bread. Shocking. I wonder how that works.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But so with that, I ended up going through like a really, really bad phase. So I ended up gaining like, I don't know how much I gained like 70 pounds or something like absurd. What was your max weight? My max weight was I was at 325, 325 pounds.

And right now. Could you see your dick when you were naked looking down? Yes, yes, yes. Because that's too far. Yeah, that's too far. Or you might have just like a massive hog. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's probably what it was.

That's for the record, that's definitely what it was. Michael's like, what the actual fuck just happened to this conversation? Yeah, so it's like I was actually up to like 325. You're probably 170 right now. No, no, no. Right now I'm 220. So like I... The fuck you are.

Yeah, I'm 220. All right. Yep, yep. So like I literally went to this journey. Michael, long this down. I'm incredibly bad at guessing what people weigh. Me too, apparently. I would not count you.

I guess you were fucking 170. Yeah, no. I mean that as a compliment. Yeah, no, it's great. Yeah. I'll take it. But no, I'm definitely, definitely big bones. Like when I was born, I was like almost 11 pounds and born, born with two broken collar bones and everything because it was such a tight squeeze coming out.

And like, yeah, it was. So definitely been, you know, bigger my entire life. But my point is that like I've lost 100 pounds since like. But it got really bad when you injured yourself and were physically limited? Yes. That was it. But then I like mentally like it broke me like it broke me mentally. I was going to I wonder though.

So for me my most I was I'm going to use the word mentally unstable. But I don't I also don't want to frame that as me going crazy and painting like like Yeah, exactly exactly. Like oh, I'll just take a shit in my hand and draw a cross out painting. Like that's not what I'm talking about. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Mentally unstable most of the time I'm pretty fucking flatline. Yeah. Pretty much down the center of the road. I would say I probably have lower highs. than most people, but higher lows. Yeah, that would be, you know what I mean? So it's a sign way, but it's, but it's shallower. Yeah, it's a gentle.

And I don't mind it. I actually think it makes it easier for me to deal with kind of a lot of the shit that life throws a little because you're like, you know what I mean? It's not crazy. I see that, you know, the manic depressive where it's like you're on a fucking Elon Musk rocket ship and then you're on, you know, you're down with the Titanic. I want no part of that shit. Because I've seen people go through that.

But if I can't be physically active, the sine wave starts expanding in its amplitude. For me, it's like the physical activity is a way for my mind. And I have no understanding of the mechanism how to unwind from whatever it is that may be winding it up. And that's why I asked about how to the tie to the physical injury. Because we come from a very physical background. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And so for me, you know, I literally at one point was 100 pounds heavier than I am right now. And so I was like, oh my gosh, I kind of snapped out of it eventually. And so you know what I did actually to get my head right? Because I knew I was like spiral and bad. And I was like, man, I got to get my head right. I went to Florida. And I got a hotel room on the beach at the top floor of like a, it was like a four points by Sheridan. I just like maxed up my credit card. I was like, I don't care. I was like I need to heal myself. and I sat there for a month and stared at the ocean.

That's basically what I did. I sat there for a month on the balcony, stared at the ocean. And I could physically feel over the course of those like month that I was there, I could physically feel like these blinders and the stress and all this stuff kind of like going down. I could just feel like the stress level going down. And during that time, I ended up having some really good ideas about Stronghold that we were able to get things up and running.

And then at that point, too, I, basically, a few months before that, I basically had made peace with the fact that, or, no, it was a little bit after that. I made peace with the fact that I was addicted, like legitimately addicted, like a heroin addict is addicted to heroin. And it was very difficult for me to sit there and admit that. And the funny thing was, I actually, so I literally was like, hey, dude, I have to do something about this.

I don't know what to do. And if I can fix this one issue, you know, I'd made peace with the war. I'd made peace with all lot of other things, but I hadn't made peace with this addiction. And it was embarrassing because it's not like, you know, it's like, you know, it's like in the movies you see like, you know, the hero, he's, he's addicted to alcohol and eventually he just puts the alcohol away and he, you know, whatever, training montage and he's fine. Well, for me, it was like, I'm processing my issues like, you know, like a, like a, moody teenage girl, you know, like I'm eating, I'm eating my feelings, right? And so it's

embarrassing. I didn't want to talk to anybody about it. And like, even now this is the first time I'm talking publicly about it, by the way, because it's super embarrassing. But I think it's important to just be honest and tell people. It's only embarrassing to you for clarity. Like I think a lot of people actually might connect with it more than you think. People's perceived shame of themselves or what they think other people are going to have maybe from a judgment perspective. It's a dangerous thing if you don't keep that in check. Yeah, that's true. And that's why two of you live your life by principle.

And one of my principles is just, hey, honesty. And I have the opportunity here to talk to a lot of people, which is great, you know, help raise support for stronghold. But it's like, no, no, I know there's other guys who are dealing with the same thing and who are dealing with those kind of issues. and whatever their addiction is. And so basically what I did was I was like, okay, what does Alcoholics Anonymous do? Like I heard all these great things about AA, but I was like, like, what do I do?

So, no kidding. I got Russell Brand's book called Recovery on audiobook, and I just listened to that. And so it's Russell Brand's version of the 12 steps in like this very comical, very lighthearted way. And so I sat there and I listened to Russell Brand talking about addiction and going through the 12 steps. And I sat there and I did all the work.

I sat there and ran through all. all the different, the first like four or five steps, which is really the sort of abstinence phase. And basically the other like 12 steps are about like more making peace with the other people in your life and everything like that, which I don't need to do a ton because this was very much just sort of my issue. But yeah, I went through that and was like laughing and was like crying and it was ridiculous. It was like a totally emotional wreck.

But I realized like, hey, this is what I need to do to fix me. And I did that. And that helped I was able to get off of the bread and sugar. So for me now, like I won't, I won't touch bread. I won't touch any sort of like sweet, anything. Like, for example, if I have like chicken wings or something like that and it's like breaded, that's fine, I'll avoid it if it's avoidable. But if I have some, it's like, you know, it's fine.

But like, yeah, I haven't had bread. I haven't had like sweets or anything like that. What was your favorite gluttonous meal? Oh, dude, Chipotle. Chipotle burritos, which I know is... There's no bread in that. It's a tortilla. That's flour.

Yeah. So maybe bread's not the right. word, like white flour or something. Yeah, very strange. You got to 320 pounds on fucking burritos? Well, burritos, cookies, cereal, just whatever, man. I, like, became completely sedentary. But Chipotle was it?

Chippole was like, yeah, one of my favorites. Yeah, that was definitely, definitely a big issue for me. I thought you were going to say, like, a fucking footlong sandwich with an extra piece of bread wrapped around it or something. Oh, no, no, no, no. Not a big sandwich guy, ironically. All right. Well, you don't want who said bread, motherfucker.

Bread and flour and all that. Yeah, so it's like, dude, so I had to make peace with that and then had to go through the process of I had this massive debt to pay, right? In the, as you use the analogy earlier of ounces, equaling pounds, right? And so I like, I literally had to go through that process of losing 100 pounds. And, you know, I didn't do it the, the Gagins way of, you know, 30 days or whatever he did, you know, I didn't, I definitely didn't do that for me. You didn't do it the stupid way? I didn't do it that way. And yeah, so it's like, over the course of a time, I was able to get myself to a point where I can't. You know. You didn't do it the stupid way? I didn't do it that way. And yeah, so it's like, I was like, over the course of a time I was able to get myself to a point where I can I was losing weight and then I was able to actually get out in the field and do stuff, and then that helped bring more and more weight off, and it was just this good compounding effect. Did you have any physiological symptoms of addiction when you stopped the food choices or change the food choices you're making? Kind of, a little bit.

So the, so several things. One is I would get extremely, extremely depressed after, like, eating too much, right? So I'd like binge or whatever. I would get extremely depressed after that. And I think what was going on, and I've, like, listened to a bunch of podcasts on and stuff like humor in lab and stuff about dopamine and whatnot. So I think as I was going on these binges, I was having these huge dopamine spikes

and then the dopamine would crash and I would just be super, super depressed because right after like a binge or eating too much, I would be like euphorically happy almost to the point of tears. Like, oh my goodness, I'm so happy. It was so weird, right? But then, and then like I would like crash

and be like, I want to die, right? Which one of those phases would last longer? The I want to die phase. How long would that last? I could last for usually, I guess it could last up until I woke up the next day sometimes. Fuck you, Chipotle. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Fucking burritos. Yeah, so I went, basically started, so on the physiological side, even now, the reason I know, like, even now, like, no, like, I'm full-blown addicted. Like, I can't touch this stuff. Because it's not, I was listening to actually Rogan recently. He was talking about addiction. He was just like, or he was talking about, like, he's like, hey, man, just, you know, just, just like, just be disciplined.

And, oh, he was actually talking with Russell Brand. about addiction. He's like, well, why can't you try some of the different, you know, the different drugs and some of the good psychedelics and whatnot? And Russell was like, no, no, no, you don't understand him. An addict and like, Rogan wasn't understanding that. So it's funny. So for me, it's like, dude, even the thought, like we're sitting here talking about like Chipotle or we're like talking about pizza. Like I physically, like my, like my tongue is literally salivating right now. And I know that's absurd. God, I wish I could order a fucking pizza and put it right in front of this. And that's like, totally fine. Just to emotionally savage you. Yeah.

You're so sadistic. Just like that's like, this is a hell of a podcast. episode. Just get addicts sitting here. Just fucking shaking. Yeah. So, like, physiologically, yeah, that. They're no bullshit addictive for sure. What is? The food sources that you're talking about.

The amount of sugar. Dude, absolutely. I think so many people are addicted to it and they don't realize that they're addicted to it. Because, again, it took me years to figure out I was addicted to it. I started developing that bad habit when I was in the teams because I don't really like drinking that much. So, like, my vice was like, I'd just like a home and like eat.

But again, you're so active. It doesn't affect you that much. When you're burning 50,000 fucking calories a day, who cares what you eat? Yeah, and even then my time in the teams, it was starting to affect me a little bit too. So, like, that did give me issues even in the teams. And so it was like something I dealt with for years. And it's like, okay, I finally got it figured out and dialed in. So it's, yeah, man, the struggle with that is no joke.

And yeah, anyway, I just wanted to kind of throw that out there as well because I know there's a lot of people who will listen to this and they're dealing with the addiction thing. So the important point is this. with whether it's addiction, but particularly like the food addiction and being like super, super overweight and everything, I understand the shame of that. And like for me,

I felt it double because it's like, dude, I'm a Navy SEAL. How am I 100 pounds overweight right now? I was so ashamed to myself, so ashamed and so embarrassed. And I couldn't even believe it. I was like, my God,

like what has become of me? Like what is this? And I was so embarrassed. I was like, I feel like I've, you know, let down the brotherhood. I've let all my friends who died. Like all of this stuff.

And it was horrible and the guilt of all that. And I was like, well, but also, like, I'm a freaking seal. Like, I'm disciplined. I'm tough. I'm motivated. I have all the reasons to get this fixed. Why can't I get this under control? I'm not the most disciplined person in the world, but I'd say I'm fairly disciplined.

I'd say I'm fairly motivated. I'd say I'm fairly competent at achieving goals and getting things done, especially when it comes to overcoming my own self and my own issues. And what I realized was eventually was, no, there is no overcoming this. There is no, like you're not, you're not going to beat this. There is no moderation for this. And so my point is people who are struggling with weight and addictions and things like that. And then they feel like they feel like there's some weak, they're, like they feel like they are some weak, terrible person who's a loser and all this other stuff and these thoughts.

Well, you know, I had the same issue. And like that's coming from, that's coming from a seal. Whatever that means, it's like, I did hell weak with a herniated disc in VGE. Like, I'm a fairly tough individual. I got shot and I walked it off. I've been through all kinds of crazy stuff and the same thing as you. And this and the food addiction and the addiction was a thousand times worse than anything else I've been through.

So if you are dealing with that kind of thing, don't think that you're a loser. Don't think that you're a weak, horrible individual. And I'm telling you, you are not strong enough to beat it on your own. You have to cut it out of your life. You have to completely just say no to it. And I would honestly, I would highly recommend if people want like a funny sort of vulgar version of like if they're dealing with addiction, they want to deal with like the alcoholics anonymous like 12 steps. I'd highly recommend Russell Brand's book recovery. And it's funny.

It's hilarious. You definitely get the audiobook and just listen to him talk through this stuff. He reads it himself. Yes, he reads it. Okay. So for example, I don't normally cuss publicly. But so like what- Do you cuss privately?

Yes, sometimes. I know. It's weird. Be a man. I know. Just do it all this time. So one of the steps that's in, that's in like the 12 steps.

Like one of the things is like, like you have to admit that you have a problem, right? So like step one, admit that you have a problem or something like that. Well, Russell Brand's version of it is step number one, are you a bit fucked? And then step number two is supposed to be like, would you like to get clean? And so in his version is like, step number two, would you like to be unfucked? you know and so he like so he goes through uh the whole it's more approachable for people dude it's way more approachable like i can't yeah i was like it was it was funny i was laughing i was like okay it's it made me you know it was it was something yeah so much more approachable and

whatnot do you still think of yourself as a seal uh when i when when the bullets start flying yes otherwise as i'm walking around no i try not to identify with it too much because like we talked about kind of at the beginning of the podcast, guys can really attach themselves to that identity. So I do think of myself when I'm representing, when I'm in public and things, when I'm around people who know that I'm a sale. Like, for example, last week I was in Nashville speaking at a school, you know, and they were there because like, hey, I was there because they were like, hey, you know, what I do with stronghold, but hey, you're also a former seal and stuff. And so people do expect, you know, I want to represent the brotherhood good. So I represent it well. And so I do

think of myself that when I'm in public, I do think about it. But when I'm just hanging out with my friends or my girlfriend or I'm just whatever, it's like, no, I'm not like, oh, Navy SEAL. But again, when the bullets start flying, that thought does cross my mind where I'm like, hey, dude, you know, buck up. Like, no, no one is coming. Like, you are the, you are the dude that is supposed to take charge in these situations. So just deal with it. Yeah, if that makes sense. It's a double-edged sword. Okay. The criticism that you were putting onto yourself, because you used to be a seal and I've let the brother

because of a food addiction which I think first off I think it's super I think it will be incredibly impactful for people to hear you talk about what you went through and how you felt about it

and how you viewed yourself I can see people from the world that we used to come from using that mirror looking back and always measuring themselves against the seal community or the brotherhood

and getting to a place where they feel like they have completely and utterly failed where they came from and making a horrendous decision and ending it all. I still truly don't understand, I can understand at a broad conceptual degree, suicide. I cannot understand physically myself getting into a place where that's the course of action that makes the most sense. It's an unreasonable choice,

and it's if I feel like it's impossible for I consider myself to be a reasonable person it would be it I feel like it would be impossible if not nearly impossible for a reasonable person to understand an unreasonable decision but if you're always viewing yourself against that seal community and the standard and it's about the brotherhood fuck man that backpack is going to waste so much for your entire life it was a job job. It's what we used to do. Don't let it become or be who you are. Because I'm going to tell you right now what you are doing with your life and your activity is it's far more than being a seal. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Just be careful with it. And again, this is just,

you know, my own, I guess just talking through this real time as well. Like I struggle with my own identity too. I don't want to be on my deathbed and they're like, oh, that was Andy the seal. Yeah. Like that's not who the fuck I want to be. Totally understand that. Yep. Yep. But there's, but you got to recognize that there's two aspects. There's how people view you. And then there's how you view yourself. Mm-hmm. It's a heavy, heavy fucking backpack to always view yourself against the standards that we were selected through, trained through, held accountable to. like we fucking ate our own, right? It was like perfection was the only thing

that we would accept and failure is never tolerated. I was married for 19 years and 11 months. Wow. And it is not the SEAL community's fault that I stayed for what I would say is about a decade too long.

You know what I used to tell myself, though? What's that? You can't leave. Okay. you'd be a quitter. You know how fucking long 10 years of your life is when you're not happy? I can imagine. Because you look at yourself in the mirror and you go, well, if you leave, you're just going

to be a quitter. Yeah. That's my fault for applying that lens to myself, but I know where that lens comes from. It comes from the same place that we both started our military careers in. And that's why I say, be careful. You know, live your life however you want to. but you know what it was a job

and the brotherhood of the seal community you ever watch seals carry each other down publicly yeah I've seen I've seen a little bit of that

yeah where's the brotherhood in that yeah that's true you know yeah it's a great bumper sticker but if you look back

objectively even inside of the seal community I serve with my fucking best friends and my worst enemies if I could have gotten away with it I might have killed some of the people that I work with.

You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so it's just a thing. You know, it was a thing. And I'm speaking for myself. Of course, feel free to feel about it however you want to. No, this is great. But I don't ever want you to look back and say,

fuck, 10 years is a long time. And I wish I wouldn't have done that. It's my fault for absolute clarity. My fault that I stayed. It wasn't the only reason that I stayed. but the number of times that I have looked in the mirror and made the decision to not leave because of who I used to be,

the fucking job that I used to have, 10 years, man, 10 fucking years, a third of your life. Yeah. So, food for thought. No, I know, I really, really do appreciate that. And one of the things, too, I was, I have a couple of buddies who are, like you said, in the teams,

some of the guys I met are like my best friends. Some of them are my worst enemies. I remember one of, I remember distinctly having the thought like with some of the guys. I was like, dude, I literally joined the military to kill people like you. Because like you are like a total scumbag and whatever.

And most of it had to do with just stuff in Afghanistan. I was like, dude. But anyway, I was talking with a couple of my buddies who are still active duty and whatnot. And, you know, they listen to the podcast and all that stuff.

But, you know, one of the things I truly like appreciate about about your podcast and some of the feedback I've gotten from other guys as well who listen to the show and have like heard you on rogan and whatnot is like you're very you're very much like uh you're very down to earth and honest and open about a lot of this stuff like one of the best things um i heard you say about about the seal thing and it's something i think to myself all the time uh as you said i did so i did more than some less than others yeah and that's such a good attitude about it because it is true and you start

holding yourself accountable to these standards and you can start beating yourself down because you're not always going to be able to attain that. You're human. And like you said, the seal teams like they do eat their own, right? And you have to, to an extent, I understand that because you have to have this level of perfection for the job. It's, you're expected to be, you know, extremely competent and good at what you do. So I get that to an extent. But that, like, you're, right. It shouldn't, it shouldn't, that should not continue to affect you after. And I think it's probably similar in a lot of other military units as well. Guys feel like they've maybe, let their other units down or, you know, whatever they came from. Well, the double-edged sword

comes from, if you can train somebody to fucking never give up, there's almost nothing that that person can't do. But it's the deeper question is at what cost. And should you, it should you give up on certain things? Correct. That's the balancing act. And that's what I'm saying. It can cut you, but it can also cut and forge a path that literally people will scratch their head and go, how the fuck are you able to do that? And the answer is because I will never give up. Like, I will literally, when people find your dead body, they'll be like, oh, he clawed his way forward to death. Exactly. The problem is, you can point that in a direction that is super self-destructive to you as well, too. Yep. Yep. And that's the balancing act. Yeah. And I think,

I think one of the things, though, that really helped me with, you know, when I was, again, like 100 pounds overweight and dealing with that addiction and everything, part of it, part of the positive thing was like, hey, dude, you are a seal, you're not going to give up on this because there's, there is this small part of your brain where you're like, oh, this is my life now. And I think that's what happens with a lot of people is they, you know, whether it's addiction or they get themselves in a bad financial situation or they put on, you know, 100 pounds, whatever it might be, whatever that person's flaw is, a lot of times people that give up and they just go like, oh, this is my life now.

They just accept it. And they stop. It's like, oh, I tried this and it didn't work. Or I tried that and it didn't work. Dude, I tried like 50 different things. Like losing 100 pounds was like one of the hardest things I've ever done. and it wasn't easy. And then like in theory, it's simple

when you kind of figure out what you need to do for you. But man, trying all this different stuff and it was so discouraging. But every time I would fail, every time I would try something and it didn't work or something sucked,

I was like, hey, I'm going to try again. I'm going to try a new thing. Like I was actually getting to the point where I was doing like dry fasting where like I went for four days and 16 hours. So I was almost at five days. No food, no water. Yeah.

So I was like just doing like an extreme fast. Yes. Yes. That's a true story. And the only reason I stopped eight hours early was because... You were going to die? No, not because I was going to die. Afghanistan was actually getting overrun at the time.

So when I was doing that particular fast, Kabul was fallen. And a friend of mine, she was in, she was in Mazari Sharif and her hotel was surrounded by Taliban and we weren't sure what the heck was going on. So I was like getting on the phone with all these people. And we were actually able to get like a satellite, a drone overhead to get proof of life on her and everything. Anyway, the Taliban ended up driving her out. You've had her on the podcast before. but yeah so like that's why I was like oh I gotta start eating so I can think straight here

but my point is like I tried all this different stuff and a lot of it worked and I was super committed to it and that was just like hey I'm like I'm not going to give up and that so that was a positive thing from from my past but you're absolutely right you have to you have to channel that into a constructive area otherwise you're just sort of banging your head against a wall hoping that the wall disappears and the wall ain't going nowhere yeah the trident's going to follow you and I around for the rest of our life what I don't think people realize They think that somebody is like chasing them around with it. It's more than, it's like it's a chain that's kind of around our own neck that we put on our head.

It's more how you manage that. Yeah. And what you wanted to be. I would love to get to a place in my life. And it has happened to me where I'll know somebody for a year and they're like, you never fucking told me that you were the military. I'm like, yeah, I know. Oh, that's great. Yeah.

Like I don't fucking care. Like I don't care. I've been out for almost 10 years. I don't give a fuck anymore. Yeah. It's so long ago. Yeah. For me, it's only been, you know, coming up on six years now.

Yeah. But I do the same thing, too, if I have a conversation with somebody, it's like the last thing I bring up. Because it's like, A, I don't want that to be my identity. I truly don't want that to be. It's like, no, no, I'm a humanitarian. I run this organization. I'm a son. You know, like, I love my family.

There's other things in life that I do and that I want to do. And as soon as the, like, the seal thing comes out, like, it gets weird. You know how it is. Like, people get weird about it. Some people, like, they love you. Some people absolutely hate you. Some people get awkward. And you're just like, dude, like, I'm just pretend like you didn't hear that.

Yeah, can we go back to me not? Can we just saying that? Can we just, yeah, can we just go back to just chilling? Like, it's not a big deal. It was a job. Yeah, man. It was a unique job for sure. Yeah.

What do you want to leave people with? We've been out for almost three hours. Wow. I've been going for a while here. Well, I would say I would just leave people with just two thoughts. One is the addiction thing. Don't give up. Try doing different things.

Again, the Russell Brands. Are there pictures of you comfort Ephraim? Oh, at that, at that weight. I think I have one photo. It's like a selfie with my parents. Should we use it as the cover art for this episode on YouTube? Michael? Dear God.

There's three people in this room. We're going to have a consensus. I say yes. Michael? I'll find it. No, he has it in his own fucking. Yeah, I was going to say it's like you're going to have to dig deeper that one. If we could get it, Michael, we're going to have a three-way vote right here.

If we could get it, should we use it as the YouTube cover art? I vote yes. I am coerced into voting yes. Fuck yes. Oh, man. You're paying him. You're paying him. I knew it.

Technically. Technically, yes. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so it's like I would just, I would leave people with that. And then the other thing, too, is just the last thing is just gratitude. Truly, I appreciate your audience and like Ritalin's audience and stuff. You guys really came through for Stronghold when we need you guys. And if anybody else wants to check out what we do, our website is strongholdrescue.org. And yeah, like I said, within the next couple weeks, I'll be back out there, getting more ambulances and stuff set up. So yeah, thank you. Be as safe as you can. safe-ish Discretion is the better part of valor My my

When I was in like junior high In high school my my coach My basketball coach Because I was never very good at basketball And built for football So he was like He set me down He was like Efferm I appreciate that you're aggressive

He's like I know you'll never give up I mean I appreciate that He's like but you got to quit being so stupid And so he goes Discretion is the better part of valor And I remember him telling me that And that's something that's stuck with me It's like, hey, man, you're not a hero.

So, like, out of 100 guys who charge a machine gun nest, 99 die, one makes it through and gets the Medal of Honor. Yeah, the guy who's like, fuck, I'm going to go around the corner and come up behind it. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. So it's not about, it's not just about the courage. It's about the wisdom and trying to be safe.

My wife now, when I go skydiving, she's like, hey, please be safe. I'm like, listen. I can't say that I'm going to go skydiving and be safe. Yeah, exactly. But I'll be safe as I can. I will follow procedures. I'll set my cypress. I can promise you nothing other than I will do everything I can to make sure that I can come home to you.

How is that? Safe-ish. Safe-ish. It's the best description. Cool, man. Thank you for your time. Awesome. Thanks.