Cleared Hot - Powered By BRCC - Frontlines to Headlines: The Battle Beyond Combat with Jariko Denman & Jenna Bakken

Episode Date: August 7, 2023

Jariko Denman was born in Washington DC and raised as a military brat. He enlisted in the US Army in 1997, embarking on a path that led him all over the world. After joining the prestigious 75th Ranger Regiment, he served for 15 years, with combat deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan on 15 different occasions. From the role of a Weapons Squad Leader to that of a Rifle Platoon Sergeant and a Ranger Company First Sergeant, Jariko amassed an impressive 54 months of combat experience as part of a Joint Special Operations Task Force. After retiring in 2017, he continued to contribute to the world in unique ways, advising on major motion pictures, national ad campaigns, and television series, while also lending his voice as a freelance journalist in conflict-ridden regions like Afghanistan and Ukraine. Currently, he enriches the team at Black Rifle Coffee as a Content Producer and calls Salt Lake City, Utah, his home. Jenna Bakken is a combat veteran who earned her stripes on the battlefield of Afghanistan. As a female serving in a male-dominated MOS, her journey was one of extraordinary strength and resilience. Her experiences include being involved in a grueling 3.5-hour firefight and enduring multiple injuries while serving her country. Jenna's journey of recovery has been an inspiration to many, and her dedication to empowering others shines through as she uses her story to uplift and guide others facing their own trials. Jariko and Jenna open up about their experiences as combat veterans, discussing the unique challenges they faced in the military, the intensity of their experiences on the frontlines, and the process of healing and recovery. Their stories are a testament to the indomitable spirit of the human soul and the immense strength that lies within. Sign up for the new G14 newsletter here: https://www.clearedhotpodcast.com/exclusive Check out the newest Cleared Hot Gear here: https://shop.clearedhotpodcast.com/  

What's going on, my fellow cucks? Here we are again on Monday. Let's talk about who's presenting this episode because it directly ties into our guests anyway. That's right. It's Black Rifle Coffee. Go to Black Rifle Coffee.com and check out everything that they have to offer. The rotating banner is my favorite. Right now, they are highlighting, joining the Coffee Subscription Club. If you use the code Coffee 20, you're going to get 20% off. Free shipping on every order, discounts on over 50 brands that you know and love associated with Black Rifle, custom deliveries on your schedule. The next one is coffee bundles, which is exactly what you probably think it is. You can get 15% off those.

And then the third one I'm not even going to talk about because it's that goddamn bass cat boat. And I just want that thing to end so I can look at something else. I'd rather look at a black screen than look at that boat again. Scroll down, you got apparel, some of the coolest t-shirts, in my opinion, sweatshirts, hoodies, the whole nine yards. Gear, the bundles, you can get the Liberty roast. Apparently that's on sale for limited time only while supplies last. And yeah, you can get lost. I mean, then that's scrolling down.

At the top, there's subscriptions, coffee, apparel, gear, bundles about all of that stuff. And that's who brings you this episode and every episode before this one. And for the next few years as well, too, black rifle coffee.com. Now, my guest today, why did I say that they tie in? Well, it's because they're both employees of Black Rifle Coffee. One of them is a repeat guest. His name is Jericho Denman. He was with me on the Triple Seven.

The other guest today is Jenna Bocken. Combat veteran from the Army, served in Afghanistan. Her story is pretty incredible, and I'm going to let her tell her story. They seem to be traveling the world together. I call them Team Firebird, but now I'm just going to call them Team Genico, which is a sassy combination of Jericho and Jenna. So how about I shut up and we let them talk? Episode number 297 with Genico, Team Firebird.

Enjoy. I'm looking at danger close now. How's the audio in your headsets? It's good. It's good. Go ahead. Take your time to figure it out. You get a little baby mic.

All the mics are the same. The stand? No, they're not. See, it moves left and right, up and down. It has a maximum ordinate. All right. Are you all right? Are you good? You're making a face a lot like Evans on national TV last night, the face of a retard.

It's just a different lower microphone. Hold on. These are way better. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they are way better. You know what the problem is, though, if I put another one of these up over there, your side of the screen looks like pipes. Oh, yeah, yeah, I get it.

Yeah. So now you're, you know. This show's about Jenna. I don't know what I fuck your ear, Joe. Yeah, I really don't want to talk much. I was going to ask before he came on if I should even be on at all. Just to hold my pocket. Yeah.

Oh, prison stop. Jesus. We're going there already. Evan calls her my husband It's my wife We do a lot together Well yeah Here's how I would describe you to

You guys are the Black Crafo coffee Skydiving Fire team Which I would like to know You have to talk into the mic, John Jesus Christ Keep it close to your face You can move it all over the place I'm not used to

So close on my mouth All right So that's how it's gonna be She's pretty misogynistic Just so you know It makes me uncomfortable Can a woman be misogynistic? Yes

Watch. I think you can be right. Yeah. Of course. Okay. How did you guys achieve your ability to travel the world in skydive and test gravity? Also, why are you talking into the side of the microphone? This is super bizarre.

This microphone is a circle. It does not have sides. You are clearly, and anybody watching on video will be able to see talking into the side. I mean, they're all sides. There's the bottom side, the top side. side, the right side, and the left side. I was just curious. But it all, it all, uh...

It's a sphere. It all comes into it the same, doesn't it? I'm curious now. No. You guys get to introduce yourself. Let's start there. And then we'll work our way backwards to the Black Rifle Coffee skydiving team, also known from this day forward as the firebirds.

Go ahead. I'll get first. You're first. So keep it short, fucker. I'm Jericho Dunman. I'm Jericho Dunman. I have 2,200 followers on my MySpace. Did you ever have a MySpace account?

Oh shit, yeah, I did. I missed that whole phase. I did too. Yeah, it taught us how to code. Remember you'd have to copy and paste, like, code? Do you remember when I just said a second ago where I missed that whole phase? I'm sure you stood over somebody's shoulder and watched a mess with their MySpace. Not a single time.

I actually missed the entire MySpace era. It wasn't... It was new. It was fun. Yeah, Myspace was fun. It's the difference between... Do you think you'd still log into it now? Probably.

You can still look mine up, and it's embarrassing. I would be so fucking embarrassed. Army Special Operations and Navy. We were busy doing stuff. I didn't have time. I was still in high school. I wasn't in the Army yet. You couldn't find a waterproof laptop to get on your Myspace.

Oh, I certainly could. It was about the thickness and width of this table. Do you remember what episode you were on first? The number episode? Yeah. No. All right. Michael, can you look at him?

Yeah, I'm looking at him. Yeah, thanks. Just because that way, like, we can pretend he's not here. But I'm going to do him the courtesy of, like, introducing Michael would let us know what episode and people just can go listen to that. I think the only thing I need to be here for is Jenna has, like, toxic humility. So maybe every once in a while I'll have to like just like, yeah, prodder a little bit and be like, like, tell that one story. about that thing you did and I'm actually like really naturally introverted so it's like weird for me it's it's taking a lot of practice to like be more forthcoming yeah be more forthcoming with

my story or things that I've done because I'm like I'm fucking nobody we're all nobody like so like what does it matter like I just I didn't die right like at the end of the day we are all nobody that's the goal yeah yeah I think uh I was reading a quote the other day I was talking about people's funerals. It's like the first row at your funeral are the people whose lives were impacted by your life. The second row of your funeral are those that are there to support the first row. And everybody else is on their fucking cell phone. Yeah. Totally. Like we all think we're like the biggest. I have, this should be a spoiler alert to anybody listening to this. I've made some mistakes in my life. Some of them quite publicly. And you always think that like

everybody is out there judging you for your lowest moment. And nobody actually gives a fuck. like we're all slogging our way through whatever we're going through everybody has problems nobody's not that big of a deal even the people that I have met who are a big deal

they're not that big of a deal yeah everyone has their own stuff going on and not worried about what you're doing yeah pretty much everybody shits true you know well except for people who have colostomy bags

but they're still shitting they're just into a bag did you guys so much of work in an emergency room and they would have colon blockages where people were vomiting shit. It's one of my worst nightmares. God.

It just kill me. Just fucking. This is a really gross story. I don't want to gag in this microphone, but... Michael is like, thanks, guys. This is great. Just had lunch. Episode 258, by the way.

Okay, perfect. Don't try to distract us from vomiting shit. We're going in new scientific territory now. With Jericho Denman, MD. Shitologists. Yeah. So what was your biggest nightmare? Just vomiting shit?

No. So when I was about, I must have been about 14 or 15. Thanksgiving Day. I ate way too much Thanksgiving. I got really sick. I was on the shitter, taking a shit. And I threw up. And as I threw up, the turd that was like halfway out of my house slurped back in.

I don't know why. I don't know why this happened. I couldn't explain it to you physiologically, but in my mind, because you were inverted. I fucking had this, I had this thought go through my head that I was going to puke out that turd. Like that it was just going to slurp all the way up through my intestines, through my stomach,

and then out of my mouth. That flashed through my head. You remember this to this day? Yeah. Of course that's impossible to happen, but it's not impossible. It's just a lot of runway you'd have to cover it. Yanks. Might be able to happen in space.

I don't know. Yeah. That in things that people put up their butts. It's pretty wild. Yeah. There's a doctor who I keep meaning to follow on Instagram. He does it quarterly. Things I found in people's butts.

He just puts up the x-rays. And some of them are like, okay. Here's one. Light bulbs. Yeah. What is with that? Why do people do that? Michael, why do you do that?

Personally, you want to know the most disturbing one of those I ever heard? I'm talking about all these weird stories. after I said I wasn't going to talk. A doctor had a patient. I don't know if it was a guy or girl, probably a guy. Come in, take a handful of thermometers, mercury

thermometers, put a rubber band around him and then put him in his ass and one of them broke. So then he had mercury go directly into the lining of his lower intestine. I think we can agree that was definitely a dude. Yeah, yeah. Also, why get multiple thermometers? Just go get

a cucumber. Like, what the fuck is the problem He did it at the doc. Like he was, he was an inpatient at the hospital. Oh, it's desperate times. Yeah, was he doing QC on like thermometer results or like, No, I think it was. He's like, this is all I got. Yeah.

I don't mind, like, whatever. You want to shove an inanimate object up your butt, but like what really bothers me is the gerbils. It makes me sad. Is that actually true, though? I think it's true. They take like a tube and then send the gerval down through the tube. I feel like there's like an actor that.

Richard Gear is that of course What were my head I was like there's like a famous actor But I don't think First off How horrible Let's go innocent until proven guilty on this I'm gonna assume

That Richard Gear Is not like tripoded right now With a fucking You know Like a wrapping paper tube Full of gerbils jammed it I would cry

Let's assume that he's not doing that how horrible would it be to have your name recognized in association with that because if both you and i both immediately jumped there so it's not something and michael have you ever heard of that with richard gear not with richard gear i've heard of the concept okay go to your personal fucking browser and put in richard gear gerbil don't you dare do it on mine don't even put in gerbil but i bet if you just horrible like again innocent ill proven guilt How fucking horrible would it be to be associated with that? Well, is it worse for it to, like, not be true or for it to be true and then people know?

Both are bad. Because you can advocate be like, fuck you, that's not true. But if it's true, you're just, like, living in that shame. There's no sunshine anywhere in this equation. Why is it Richard Gear? That's what I'm saying. I'm going to assume it's not true. It's probably not true.

I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt. But, like, where there's smoke, there's fire. You know what I mean? Yeah. But also, why gerbils? I was going to ask you something. Michael, again, on your personal browser, please Google why people put gerbils in their butt. Well, I've got an urban dictionary up here.

This is the beauty of having somebody in the room with you who can look to shit. Oh, perfect. Gerbling. I didn't know that was the term. Jericho, do you want to go ahead and read the description? Well, A, gerbling doesn't exist. Damn it. What does that even mean?

B, they're very good at getting the thing out afterwards. How can B be true if A is true? Well, I think what it's saying is there's no cases. Oh, my God. There's his name right there, Richard Geer. That's the last. Yeah. So either it's not true or everyone's really good at removing them.

So it's like a urban legend. Gerbling. Having a live rodent or small animal, usually a gerbil, and using some sort of tube forcing the gerbil into one's asshole. No medical case has ever been recorded of someone needing to remove the gerbil from one's, plural, anus. So we must now come to the conclusion that either a, drubling does not exist, B, they're very good at getting the thing out afterwards. Jibrilling has many famous cases, such as Richard Gere reportedly having a wild session

with the furry animal. God damn. Oh, Jesus. So let's assume that A is true. Yeah. Fucking Richard Gier's name is still associated with it. Yeah, why? Do you think he's aware of that?

Oh, fuck, yeah. Yes. Yeah. It's like the fifth auto fill-in down. You just put in Richard Gier's. I just putting Richard jeer like the fifth one down is Richard. It's Richard Geer. It's Richard Geerb.

God, you're a piece of shit. RGG. When we're talking about a man who puts an animal with his ass, you get his name right. He's a candidate mayonnaise. Oh, here's a nice. I would actually 100% read this article. Scroll up a little bit, Michael.

If I saw this in my feet, a highly questionable cultural history of Richard Geer and ass gerbil, I am reading that. Hey, I'm going to put that on my LinkedIn as my last paid position. Like This is already This whoa Prince Prince getting his ribs removed To suck his own dick

What? I thought that was Marilyn Manson It eventually became a rumor About Marilyn Manson instead Oh I never heard that it was Prince He just like passed that buck Fuck yeah Mike I like where your heads out Click on that

This is becoming my favorite episode so far already Oh multiple celebs Here's the thing If you were a celebrity Couldn't you find somebody else to do that pretty much at will. Lots of people. Yeah.

So many people. That's why it's bullshit. Or do you do that because you can find somebody basically at will. Then it's boring. Because it's so boring that you're just like, I'll just take care of this myself. I probably do it better anyway. I guess. Wow, that's crazy.

Anyway, I'm going to put on my link. I have a Prince tattoo. 21. Yeah, around my belly button. Do you have all your ribs? I do have all your ribs? all my ribs. Why the belly button?

I don't know. I just wanted it. I didn't want the tribal son. I wanted something on my stomach. I really do like Prince. Such as the artist formerly known as Prince. Correct. Yeah, yeah.

Which was still known as Prince. Even when they would say the artist formerly known as Prince, they would then just go, you guys know, Prince. Yeah. That's like the guy in the fight last night. Like he changed his name to just King. That's kind of a baller move. His fight name was still his full previous legal name.

Was that? A new legal name was just king. It was the introduction to his new name. They were slow rolling it. I wonder when he gets pulled over for, say, rolling a stop sign, and there's just a name. Yeah. Like, sir, license and registration. Like, here you go, and it just says king.

Yeah. I'm like, this isn't real. I was going to say, if I was a copy, but like, I got some fucking questions here. You, like, hold it up to the light. Michael, thank you for the thorough and robust research on dribbling. How did that happen? I don't know. I don't know how we got there. So anyway, Jenna Backin.

Go ahead. Where are you from? Originally from Atlanta, Georgia. I grew up in the South, bouncing around between Tennessee, Georgia, born in Tennessee. Yeah. Why were we bouncing around? My parents got divorced when I was young, so they kind of both ended up moving. And then every other year I'd kind of like live with my mom, with my dad. How old were you when they got divorced? Eight.

I was eight years old. How much of it do you remember? Not a lot. I remember being sad and be like, man, this sucks. I remember like the heavy or like feeling the heavy emotion, the feeling of the feeling, if you will. And then just being, all right, but then being bounced around and then going from like having a bunch of older siblings in the house to being like the only child in some circumstances, like some years. It would be like just me and my dad or me and my mom because my siblings are. older and like moved out. How was the back and forth? Oh, it sucked. It sucked, but I think it prepared me

for the military, just moving around, bouncing around. Was it shitty just because you didn't feel like you had a place where you could, like, sink your teeth in and call home? Um, I think it, I think it definitely kind of shaped my relationship with people and, like, made me more introverted. And sometimes I probably, like, go into a relationship not in a healthy way or used to, but now I'm aware of it. I'm being like, eh, I'm going to be gone in a year, you know, so, but yeah, I don't know. Not that I had trouble making friends, but I'm like, all right, well, I'm going to be gone in a year, so see you later. But again, like, well, this is the same thing for the military, except for when you're an adult,

you're like, all right, I actually like you. We'll be friends for the rest of our lives. Yeah, it definitely affected me. I think as a kid, I tried to pretend that it didn't. But then, again, I was used to, like, having older siblings and those, like, looking up to them. And then I started hanging out with, like, older kids in the neighborhood and, like, getting into trouble and stuff. So, yeah, definitely their divorce affected me and shaped me, for sure. Did it change your impression or thoughts on marriage?

Yeah, I think so. I'm twice divorced now myself. Slow learner, I get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you know, I really got to. sink those lessons in. I'm like, ah, just to be sure, you know. Fuck. Yeah, I think my dad got remarried a couple of times.

My mom did not and is still with like the same guy and found a really great guy. So he's actually was my godfather. Was there at my baptism. They went to high school together and then years and years later ended up. So it's kind of a cool story for them. But it, yeah, gave shape my perception. on marriage and relationships. But I will say my parents got it right

because my dad has kids with a couple of different ladies, a few different ladies. And they all came together for us as kids. So it's probably weird for some families, but I'm like super thankful and I think it's the one thing that they got right is like they put all their shit aside for us kids and like we all have holidays and things like that together. Still.

That's awesome. Yeah. My dad and all his ex-wives are there? Yeah. Yeah. That could be awkward at the Christmas dinner. Not, you know, the ones that have kids with him. It's like people who...

Not all the wives had kids with them. Serve with some guys who had siblings who attempted the pipeline and quit. Yeah. And they recount stories of like Thanksgiving. I'm like, hey, you fucking quit or can you pass me the mashed potatoes? Yikes. Which is a smaller version of like having your ex-wife at the... dinner table. I could see that shit getting sideways. Yeah. Yeah, no, they, um, they had their moments

for sure, but not, they try to keep it away from us and always came together for us. So that's actually like really cool. And like you still to this day. It's my biggest concern when I initiated my divorce is that I would ruin my kid's perception of marriage or love or relationships in general. That was the biggest thing that I thought about. Still not sure how it's going to end up, but yeah, it seems like they're doing okay. I'm still figuring it out. Yeah, me too. Yeah, I think we're all out.

I don't get it all figured out, but I don't. Yeah, just don't never get married. Do you think you'll ever get married? If I find the right guy. Totally. Yeah, no. I mean, if I were dating something, it was important to them, I really don't give a shit. Are your parents still married?

Yeah, okay. My parents are still married. My brother got married when he was, what, 19, right out of high school. Strong. I advise that for most young men. He's still married. Yeah. They're still going strong. So I don't know.

I don't know what it is that that gene missed me. What's the divorce rate in the regiment? Oh, it's super high. 104%? It's probably around about where the rest of the soft community is. But I think from what I've seen, and this is just anecdotal, like me looking at other communities, like the Naval Special Warfare and SF and all that, we had a lot less. married guys in Ranger Regiment. Just a lot of single dudes.

Why do you think that is? I think we come in younger and then that becomes kind of our thing. And we don't, I think the general purpose, so like, you know, it's a cliche in the army that guys get married young to somebody who sucks and, you know, blah, blah, blah. I think that a lot of people that go in the military, they get married young because they're lonely and they don't have, like, they're homesick or whatever. Or they want that B.A.H. You don't feel that in Ranger's time.

Like you get there and you're like, this is my family. You don't need to go out and seek some other form of like acceptance. You can just say in shorter terms that you think that you're better than the rest of us. That's what that sounds like. I was trying to. It sounds like a super roundabout way of being like basically we just have. I wasn't lonely. Yeah.

Well. I wasn't lonely because my community was so welcoming and I had like great mentors. No, kind of the opposite of that. It's kind of the opposite of that. Like they, they indoctrinate you so hard that like, you're just like, this is all I fucking need. I don't need anything else. And you don't really know anything else. So they get to you early and brainwash you and like, this is my family.

I'm married to the regiment. You're probably going to die alone now, Jericho. We all do. Not if you're in a car with somebody in a fiery crash. Or in a plane. Yeah, or a plane. Or a submarine that goes down to attack. Oh, God.

Or I just give you like a really hardcore koala bear hug on your parachute. So it does open, but it just won't open. If you had a billion dollars, would you've gotten on that sub to the Titanic? No. I would not have. I don't think I would have either. I am. I am going to believe why the fuck would anybody else?

Yeah, I'm curious about it. There's people that just don't understand how dangerous the world can be. Yeah. And then sometimes your asshole inverts with your forehead at fucking 9,000 meters underwater at the Titanic. I mean instantaneously, though, so they were gone. There are people in the world who have never had problems. Like, face it, about 99.9% of the problems we have in life can be solved with money, right? So if you have endless amounts of money, you've never really had problems.

You don't understand problem solving or that things can actually, like, have an effect on you. I know some very wealthy people who have a lot of problems. And actually, their kids probably have the problems worse. Do they know that? they get to a point where I think that they realize it. I think what they are detached from in the beginning is the kind of the station in life that they're starting from. I actually take that back. I haven't found, I think everybody has problems.

The person who developed and grew the wealth is generally doing okay. The next generation oftentimes I think has some problems. Yeah. Yeah. being able to go through like adversity and and building your resilience and all that stuff is so important and if you're

from one of those families where like you never had to really solve any problems like it fucks you up yeah you're not prepared for the world in the capacity in which you think you are but I mean problems are definitely just like trauma they're subjective and like I have to remind myself of that sometimes because I'm like you don't have fucking real problems And I'm like, ah, to you, that's a real problem.

Yeah, to you, that's a real problem. And like, so it's, again, it's subjective. But, like, that inlines the problem itself is, like, you don't have that genuine hardship. But, like, it doesn't need to be a ladder or a tier. But there's, I think there's some things in life that you need to go through to build that character for sure. Like being imploded in a submarine. Yeah, that's a real fucking problem. That's amazing.

The memes where it was like it showed the mortality, like the Titanic. It was like a spike. And they're like a little. God damn it. Fucking people. And that was within three hours of them going missing. I know. What I will say is like, I mean it is like we're joking about it.

It's fucked up. It's definitely sketchy. We're like, damn, I wouldn't be on that thing. But like immediately the internet was like me, me, meme. I'm like, yo, there's people on there like really about to die. This is kind of fucked up. Well, now we know they were definitely already dead, but like at the time, you know, like, but at the time, oh, that's a meme about it.

It finally stopped that fucking Ui song. So that actually was our lever out of that bullshit. Yeah. Because I would like sit at the coffee shop and you'd hear people like, you knew there on it. It was like, oohie. Yeah, I know exactly. Oh my God. For about, I think two weeks.

It's the only sound that I fucking heard. Yeah. You actually made one of your little Jericho thoughts about you. Like for the love of Christ, please stop the shit. Yeah, please, God. It's so catchy. It is catchy. I'm like repeating it my head.

I'm like, shit. It's good. It's good. I have a, what's the, what is the deepest that that scenario could have taken place and they could have survived in some way, shape, or form? Like a structural whole failure? Like a structural integrity failure on a submarine. And you're like, ah, shit. And maybe you have like a tank or like an external tank.

It could have been, like maybe a couple atmospheres. I don't know. that means. How many feet is that? 33 feet for the first atmosphere. Oh, okay. Gotcha. Were you not qualified to dive in the military? No. I want to get him to dive. He's scared. No, we don't dive. By land, sea or air, that means like on the top of the sea. It's way scared to jump out of planes than to jump into the water. You never did diving. So, you know, at atmosphere, you're talking about like the increasing in like the pressure.

Michael, can you look up at how many atmospheres that's, because that sub imploded at what, like 9,000 feet? Yeah. Where are it? Just the depth and how many atmospheres. And then if you want to, let's educate the Army guy here. Have you seen like the Coke can that goes down and then just like just squeeze, squeeze, squeeze? Or an empty one?

I'm not sure if it's empty or full. But like as the as the Coke can sinks down into the water, it just like the pressure just squeezes it on it from the pressure of the water. I don't know. So it would be hard on the body. If the hole failed or like water started getting into the vessel, it's like the same thing. Maybe people don't know this. If you launch a vehicle into the water,

one of the worst things you can do is keep all the windows up for a slow drip of the water coming in. It's actually better to roll the windows down so the water comes in so you can actually open the door. Yeah. Yeah. So if the hole was failing, but it was like just water coming in, they wouldn't be able to open the door until the fucking thing was full. Yeah. Then they'd have to equalize the pressure.

I don't know if there actually is a survivable. Yeah. Because you have to be able to get the fuck out. Yeah. I guess you could have a tank. I'd say I'd say it'd have to be above 100 feet. Yeah, my whole like underwater. I watched Doss Boot.

I've watched the hunt for Red October. You know, I'm pretty much an expert in submarine stuff. Yeah. But I do know there's no fucking way I would get in a submarine that's going underwater at all. Like, oh, we're just going to go under like 10 feet. I don't care. I'm not going in there. What'd you find, Michael?

get into like a military sub I wouldn't get into like yeah looks like it was at 4,000 meters which is 400 atmospheres 400 times the force grabber oh that's a lot yeah fudge yeah that's a lot it's not survival yeah there's an animation of what it likely is does this one have the blood yeah so um also that would likely have occurred in about it fucking 18th of a second. So they suffered not at all, not whatsoever, just like dead. I think so. Yeah.

Yeah. The last thing to probably go through the head was their asshole. Yeah. It would be my guess. Well, you remember Jim from the Triple Seven. Yes. Who'd been, he'd been to the bottom of the Marianas Trench or whatever. Is that about the, that's way deeper than they were?

On the Marion's Trench, correct me if I'm wrong, Michael, is the deepest known portion of the ocean, right? I believe so. Yes. Fuck that. And he also said it was super boring, so I have no interest in doing it. I would imagine it's boring. It takes a long time to get down there and then takes a long time to get back up. And with camera technology, these are 6K cameras.

Let's just strap one of those down there. Send me the link to the YouTube video. I'll pay way less than the million dollars or whatever they charged and not risk my life getting into that submarine. It's just cold and dark. Like, what do you even see down there? Like at the bottom, there's different like creatures that kind of glow, right? and weird entities down there at the bottom.

He said all they saw was like stuff, it looked like wet toilet paper floating by. All that means to me is that somebody has got a little bit of excessive income. Yeah. You know, I have so much money that I want to go look at the bottom of the ocean and see a one square meter piece of mud.

Yeah. So what are your thoughts on marriage, Jericho? ProCon. My thoughts? Yeah, on it. My thoughts on marriage are basically the same as they are on, like, religion or, you know, any kind of, like, ethos that you feel. If you're using it to provide good for yourself and the people in your circle, then it's amazing and it's great. But I think it gets twisted into something that gives people guilt.

It gets twisted into something that makes people money. And it's pretty fucking unnecessary. Like I said, if I were in a relationship with a girl that was like, hey, it's really important me to be married, I'd be like, okay. But I don't ever wake up being like, I'm going to marry that girl. You know what I mean? I don't care. If I'm going to, if I'm committed to a person and they're committed to me, I don't understand the need for this like ideological or governmental officiating of my relationship. Does that make sense?

It does. Jenna, we haven't found him the right woman yet. The right woman hasn't found him. I was engaged once, but I was like 23. I thought that you didn't feel the need to do that because you guys were so much better and all you needed to do was your job. So I thought, fuck off.

So, Jenna. Yeah, that's like 23. It is really weird to get the government involved in your relationship. I found that... At the end. Yes. And that's what I found.

This end of this last marriage. I was like, I have to ask the government to end this fucking relationship. And I do not like that. Were you hesitant to get remarried? Am I now? Hesitant to get remarried? When you were coming out of your first divorce. How long were we married the first time?

Not. We both dual military and deployments and PTSD and TBI. And we were just really young and going. through a lot and like she's super rad but we were not ready to be married and just kind of I think there was like pressure from the army for us to get married also really um yeah um well she was an officer I was enlisted so so correct um so you know if we were a straight couple it was it was before don't ask don't tell it was like right right before it we were already married there was some like I won't speak fully on it because it's not just my story to tell.

But it just got a little bit mucky. So it was like, you know, kind of trying to save the careers. How was it handled prior to the before, prior to the, don't ask, don't tell? So people knew, even though it technically violated, what would it be, DOD policy at that point? Yeah. Yeah.

So it was like, but if you're, you have like a year after commission or something like that, if you know before we met in college, there was shoes in college I wasn't I didn't go until after I retired so you have like this time like either get married like shit or get off the pot like you can either have this you're talking about an enlisted officer relationship yeah yeah and at that time since the don't ask don't tell had not been repealed did the military really care how do they treat you guys about that not well that's you know I don't speak about it publicly again because it's not fully my story and

It kind of hit the fan when I was in the middle of retiring and left a really nasty taste in my mouth. I'm like, I almost died for you guys several times. And now you're going to like shit on me as I'm retiring like for my marriage and trying to tell me. Correct. Yeah, that checks out. Yeah, correct. Correct. And they had to go back and recant.

She stayed in. I retired. They had to go back and recant some stuff. It was just this weird thing because it was like, oh, don't ask, don't tell. But we got married within the thing. but you don't recognize my marriage. But then like the old BC and Sarm Major knew, but we were very professional.

My first Army commander, like everyone knew. My fucking first Sarmar married is an old company commander. Don't come in here and like take my rank as I'm retiring. Like, what are you doing? So, yeah, left a nasty taste in my mouth. But there was just some weird, a bunch of memorandums had to get written and typed up and sent up to the Army Review Board

to try to save some face about things. Did it make you hesitant about round two? You know, it didn't. I knew that I was young and life. How old were you when you first got married? Early 20s. Same. Yeah.

I was 23 when I got married. Yeah. I was there. I think I was 23 as well. I was like 23, 24. I retired when I was like 26, 25, 26, something like that. So I was young. Yeah, it didn't really, I mean, I was just young and dumb still.

So like my last marriage, um, that was like a real test of me to like go through some hardship and like do it the right way because I let like the army leave a bitter taste in my mouth about some things and had some I was just I was just kind of angry about a lot of shit but my ending in my last marriage was like I'm gonna fucking do this right I mean there's no right way but like handle it right emotionally and and but now it has changed my view on marriage I think that it's weird for the government to get involved. If I had kids, I would probably get married again.

But I just don't think there's really any reason to be. I think I would definitely do a big ceremony in front of my friends and family and do that commitment for myself and my partner. But like... Leave the government out. Yeah, leave the government out. Get the fuck out of my life. No RSVP for the fucking government. Yeah.

So it's, yeah, I think it's about that commitment that you make, not the government and the paperwork and all that kind of weirds me out. Michael, what are your thoughts on marriage? I just like curiosity as the youngest person in the room. Curious what the newer generations think of marriage. I'd like to get married personally. Obviously, I don't have a lot of experience. Something kind of like Jericho. Oh, this might work out.

Serendipitous. Let's go. But I have a good view on it because my parents are still married and both of their parents have been married for forever. That's awesome. So to me it's like, oh, this seems to be working for those people. I'd like to do that as well. But I also know that the divorce rate right now is like 60% or something.

Yeah, it's crazy. I actually, fuck. I hadn't thought about this. think, at least on between my mom's side and my dad's side, fuck. I might be the first divorce in our family. Yeah. Really? Fuck.

Yeah. You piece of shit. Yeah. I try hard sometimes. So it does work. I'm just curious. It seems like I talked to my own kids about it. I have birthday seasons in full swing.

So my daughter just turned 15. My middle son, peeping tom windows.com. It's not a big deal. So good. Yeah. He's just like, I need to make a website. What do you think I should pull? put on there. I'm like, whoa, you went from like, I don't want to call it that to like,

now we need to have a full-fledged business plan. However, let's meet this afternoon. Yeah. He turns 18 next week, which, by the way, we're doing a dual party with him in Denver. It's called Glizzy Fest 2023. It's not a big deal. Hot talks. It is. Yeah. I learned that turn from him, actually. And then my oldest turns 20 in October, very different thoughts on marriage and the value of marriage. I will say, to be fair, when people are like, oh, I got a divorce. and no one else my there are some relationships not necessarily my our parents generation but i was totally normal to live in different sides of the house and have bedrooms yeah no that was yeah like what's healthier like let's just end it clean or like let's live miserably i tell you

it's not healthy stay together for the kids yeah worse advice ever yeah worst advice i think that messes the kids up worse people like to think that children are not smart and that they don't have processing ability holy shit. They see everything you don't want them to. They hear everything that you don't want them to. And that's why I asked you about your experience because my daughter was about, she was a little bit older than you were. Like I said, it was one of the main things that I thought about and was concerned about. I see my little sister. My dad's recently divorced. And I was the youngest. There's a 27-year age gap between me and my little sister. And she's now nine. And the divorce is fine, but it was like kind of drowned out for a couple years. So around the same age. And so I just like,

it was weird because it was like, I'm seeing it. I'm seeing myself. I'm like, man, I know this is going to fuck her up in some capacity. And like it, it sucks. It's like, how do you protect them? But you have to have a little bit of trauma so you're funny. But like, not enough that you're, you know, can't get your shit together. Yeah. Why did you want to join the military? Family influence. My grandparents. No. my parents were not military, but my grandparents, maternal grandparents met in the Marines. And so my Nana was a Marine. And she was just super influential in my life. And so like my great parent, my great grandparents on both sides, Navy, so there is that history. My uncle was a sniper

in Vietnam. So I have that family history, but I would say it's mostly because of my Nana, like her being a Marine and she was just like a cool lady yeah she was she was just fun um she taught me how to ride a bike and how to her my grandpa and then how to she gave me a bunch of pointers on how to drive she raced cars on the um stock cars on the dirt track so she'd be like I remember I was like probably like six being so young like sitting in her little like G6 Pontiac or whatever it is like something like Well, she thinks it's fast, I think it's fast. And she's, like, getting on the interstate just, like, gripping and ripping it. She's like, your grandpa can't do this.

I'm like, what? Jesus. But she, you know, little things like, truly, she was like, accelerate through this turn. Don't break in this turn. Break here, accelerate here. And, like, she was just like, little tiny things like that. I'm like, oh, that's cool. A Renaissance woman.

Yeah, yeah. And so, yeah, she was just, she was the matriarch of the family and just a Marine. and so how early on did you know you wanted to go the military path always i like i like hate to admit this but i would like have a little note pad and walk around because my my grandfather was a sp in the marine so he and then got out to be a private detective i would like walk around the house writing people tickets for like leaving the toilet seat up and things like that i still do that nark seriously underfoot nark but then i never wrote one single ticket in the actual in the actual military as an MP.

I went in as an MP and never wrote one ticket. I did... That makes you the anomaly for clarity? Yeah, I actually got into it when the death sergeant. So the difference between like a civilian cop

and a military cop, we don't have some quota. I don't have to, it's officer's discretion. I don't have to write a ticket if I don't want to, I can... I don't have to. And then this death sergeant was like, oh, we're going to write X amount of tickets today.

I'm like, well, that's fucked up. Like what? Why would you just like, have that quote of like, I'm setting out to like, but it didn't make sense to me. I didn't like it. Do you ever ask why or where that came from? I don't, and I just was like, I'm not doing that, you know? And then I had the supervisor, the shift supervisor moved me to a different area because they were setting up like speed traps and they were like riding tickets for like 1K over. We were in Germany. I'm like, I'm not doing that. And that's why your cars get your tire slit and

people race. I'm like, I'm not doing. that like why would we do that why would we fuck over our people like one k over like get out of here like this crazy so i never mile over the sweetly right it's like yeah like what like their chain and command should be calling cussing us out not calling because they're mad that they know what i mean like it just i didn't like it um what year did you join 2006 okay so i joined marines no army i went to army Yeah, I went to military school and I was getting into a little trouble or like I could see the writing on the wall. Again, just hang out with people that shouldn't be hanging out with, dabbling. Yeah, yeah, yeah, dabbling and some things.

And I was like 15. I was like, oh, I'm going to mess my life up if I like continue on this. And so I asked my parents to send me to military school. You asked them to send you to military school. I think that's usually probably the opposite of how that goes. Correct. Yeah. So I was like, just send me off and let me go figure it out and graduate early and then go ahead and join the Marines is what I thought.

And then in military school, our guidance counselors were basically, I mean, I took the ASVAP at 15. Like, I mean, they're putting us in line to go into military. So all the recruiters come and talk to our guidance counselors and talk to us. And I was 17. My parents signed me over. and I thought I was going to go join the Marines. The Marine recruiter was late. And the Army recruiter made a lot of sense.

And I'm thankful that I did it. As a female, I wouldn't have had the career or the opportunities, I think, at the time. And I was, like, integrated into the males and, like, lived in the tents with them. And, like, we did everything together. It's a family. And, like, it's very different. And the Marine, I have Marine friends. are like, oh, I never saw a female.

And I was like, what? Like, I lived in the tents with my dudes. So, yeah, and it afforded me opportunities, I think, in leadership that maybe would have been a little bit harder. And I don't know that for sure. I mean, I'm just going off of what I assume and my perception. Six and a half. I was, like, from 2006 to 13. I was deployed 9, 10, 11, 12, all Afghanistan.

Not for four years, obviously, but a piece each year. Yeah, during those years. Where did they send you in Afghanistan? My first appointment, I was RCE East, Pacteia province. I was all over. And then my second deployment was Kandahar. I was in the city. What year was that?

9-10, I was in Pekthia. And then 11-12, I was in Kandahar. Okay. We just missed each other. I was down near Kandahar in Nabahar province 2010. What they had you doing? What's the role of the MP overseas? So my first deployment, I got hoared out a lot to different units because they needed females to search.

It was like FET before the FET. And I was working when I first deployed. I was working a little bit with our intel cell. And then so the commander would, and we were battle space owners as a company unit, just the way the cards fell, I guess, momentarily. Which I know is like super rare. So we had our hands and a little bit of everything. So I say, I was all over the province, running missions and getting attached. I did missions with Blackwater, but they weren't Blackwater at the time.

I don't remember their name. Was it like Gee or something like that? It was something weird, but it was Blackwater. Yeah. Yeah. They used to do the rotator flights with, like, equipment, and they still had the blackwater stickers on the airport or the helicopter frames, but it was called something else. Yeah, with the paw and the, yeah. I think it was like G or something like that.

Yeah, I took a fight with them. It was so Blackwater, but they called something else. Yeah. Same little bit. Dude with a handlebar mustache. from fucking Vietnam. They're flying. Just crushing it, though.

Just fucking... Yeah. So they had you going out on target and doing a lot of the integration with the females? Yeah, so just to search. Honestly, it was just another gun. But I just needed to search the other females.

So I just was running and gunning. That's good. It was fun. I liked it. I enjoyed it. I wanted to go and pee because I didn't want to sit behind a desk. I wanted to, like, be in. I don't think a lot of people would associate the MP career path with running and gunning over and

Yeah, they don't, but I mean, at that time, we were basically just infantry. I mean, I was attached to infantry. I was attached to cav. They got, like, my honorary spurs out there were just running mission with them. So I worked with- Actual spurs? No, just a certificate. I wish I got the actual spurs.

That would be doing. Do you not know about the Cav Stetsons and Spurs traditions, Andy? Let me ask you a better question. Why in the fuck would I do about it? Because it's amazing. It's an army-a-a-a-thing. Do you know how to sing, Anchors Away? I don't either, for clarity, but apparently it's a thing in the Navy.

I'm just pointing out. I know the chorus. Do tell. Stetson and Spurs? Yes. Please tell me there's a point in your career where you get issued both. Yes. Fuck, yes.

Only if you're a Cav-guy. Or CAV? Cav- Yeah, like Cavalry. But at this point, we're not talking horses. We're talking probably armored. Armored cavalry. They go on. They'll go on.

on like rides and like on horse rides? Yeah they'll still do it to get the spurs and stuff like that I don't know now I mean I've been out for a long time but and they do like I don't know if it's like once a year how it works but they do this I don't even know what it's called but they call like well she did it like getting your spurs or whatever

like you just get hazed for like two days or something and then you get to wear a Stetson issued Stetson or you have to buy your own you have to buy your own and spurs literal spurs and you put the spurs on your spurs on your like army boots for like one day a month or something like on payday you do it or some shit i don't know it's weird the military has some of these single dumbest traditions on the fucking face the planet it's kind of similar to uh what's the thing they do in the navy when

you cross the equator and you like the shellback it's like that yeah yeah i've never even heard of that yeah it's same you are not missing out of much i was on an aircraft carrier one time when we did cross the equator and they asked us if we wanted to participate and told them to get the fuck out of our birthing space. They took it incredibly serious. I know it's a big deal for, I mean, for vessels, right? Somebody who's on a naval vessel. They have, I think, one for the Arctic. But they like keep track.

Like, shellbacks and then a certain number of time you're something else, it's hazing. They, like, clear the entire flight deck of an aircraft carrier, and they just fuck with everybody who's never been across the equator. You piece of shit. You've never flown across the equator. You can't believe you haven't been this far before. I've fucking been in the military for 10 years. I'm on my seventh wife. I've been bankrupt three times, motherfucker.

Like, I'm a shellback. I'm going to spray you with a hose. That's what they did. It was like, I swear it was like shaving cream and hoses. Yeah, that's awesome. Like, I hate this. Yeah. All right.

So continue through your military career. What else you're up to? Yeah. So, I was in Pactea province. I did that. I was working with the A&A. and the A&P, so the police and the army. Yeah.

It's kind of crazy because it's like I got there and at this point I'm like, okay, we've been here for like 10 years, six years, whatever the time was at that time. And I'm like, every unit before me has gone over this training with you. You've been doing joint missions for years. Why is it like training a toddler? Pause, please. I'll explain it. Michael, please Google on YouTube, Afghans doing jumping jacks. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Correct. I had to give a land nav class to a bunch of Afghan National Police. I actually was tasked with teaching them one time to use a GPS.

Oh, Jesus. Stopped the class when I was trying to explain to them contour lines on maps and the elevation of where we were. And then stopped me and said, we are at sea level. This was in Koust, by the way. we're at sea level and there's a large berm that keeps the ocean away from Afghanistan and I said

what the fuck did you just say? He goes the ocean is held back by the berm that prevents the water from coming into Afghanistan. I said we don't need to do class today. Yes. Send it my... And some of them, I'll digress

and say some of them are actually like super great and have been like shoulder to shoulder standing next to them in a firefight and I've been like fuck yes, this is the man I want next to me. And there's some that I'm like,

if you don't get the fuck away from me. That guy on the end is a fucking animal. Oh, dude, the third from the right is a savage. That's the guy who's... I'm a little teed-cub. All right. This guy that's going to take your kneecap out accidentally in a firefight. I don't want people to think that I'm making fun of the A&A and A&P.

What I'm making fun of is specifically to people in that video, just for clarity. we fuck there were a few times where we were co-located with an A&A A&P compound and I have watched

I don't know if it was an A&A or A&P the we were getting indirect fire and an A&A dude or NAP guy shot an RPG I was just going to do that I knew it across the compound

like directly past one of these other and I'm just like it's a fucking norm like this is i'm going to die we had a dude i think i've told this story we called him fucking rocket man the standard a and a like woodland camo pants he would roll leather jacket and his primary weapon system was an RPG 7 he would clear buildings with it we're all dying motherfucker would go through bazaars and just be like shh like standing in the threshold of a

fucking door pointing an RPG would have killed himself obviously with the fucking back blast it wouldn't have even have armed but that yeah and then we were on target one day never saw him fire it and all of a sudden I hear and I look over and fucking my man in a leather

jack has got the biggest shit eating grin I've ever seen this fucking tube is smoking and I'm like rocket finally he's like for clarity he pointed it and fired it in a direction we were not receiving fire from but he got he let it lose Yeah.

Can you imagine clearing this room in your primary weapons, fucking RPG 7, from the threshold with the door? It's going to clear the room. You'd be better off turning around and firing it to the other direction and just getting everybody with the overpressure. Yeah, yeah. It's going to clear the room, though. You're not graded on technique, just results. Yeah, I lived part-time. We got kicked out there.

We lived on a cop out there in Zormout, and there wasn't a U.S. presence, I think, for like five, six years before we got out there initially. That was the same thing out in Abahar where we were too. It was like a forgotten province. Yeah, and so we got out there and had the honor of dealing with all that of not having any presence out there. So it was kind of heavy out there for a minute. And then we had a cop out there, which was just a shitty little small cop. And they were like, oh, well, we're condemning this cop.

You've got to go out to the D.C. And so live with the Afghans. And we're like filling Hescos and sandbags ourselves. And I'm like, they literally want us to die. Like, I'm about, I'm trying to go home. Like, what is happening? Like, why are we out here paying these kids a dollar to try to help us, like, fill sandbags and get a little bit of security up there? But we're embedded with them.

How the A&P and A&A treat you? Well, I had a shaved head also. So I think they kind of dug it. Confusing me like, oh, you kind of look like a boy, but you're a girl. So a lot would approve. It was kind of their jam. Correct. Correct.

I had a guy, like, hold me at knife point. I almost shot him. And I'll cut it, but I was like, at that point, I already know what it feels like to shoot someone. I'm like, get the fuck out of my face. Like, I don't want to hold this on my conscience. Like, it's not worth it. But because I wouldn't like, and he was at A&P. And he, like, he wanted to be my friend.

He was like, why, like, hold me at knife point as I was sergeant in the guard. Traditionally a friendly gesture. Yeah, yeah. Why won't you be my friend? I want to do is talk to you. And I like, I have, I mean, I have my fucking weapon. I mean, like, am I about to shoot you? Like, I, like, took a couple steps.

I had some space, but I had every right to, like, shoot him. He's coming at me with the knife. I was then bound to, like, you know, I could fucking kill you right now. But it's like, yeah, so the Afghans kind of loved it. But I had a, they knew I was a girl. I had a shaved head. They were fine with it. I was never besides that and, like, them trying to kill me.

I was never disrespected by any of, like, the national police or anything like that. I had a pretty good relationship. with them. And we lived part-time, like at the D.C. on that first appointment, my second deployment for part of it, I was doing like a week out running missions and then a week living at provincial headquarters with the national police and out there and A&A because there's a general ward act out there. So again, just the mixture, the police and the army and just running those joint missions. But yeah, I remember one time, though, we were, We were out on a TCP.

We had been there supposed to be really quick. It's actually when fucking Bergdahl walked off. And at first, I remember being like... He just got released. Yeah, I saw that. That's why I said, oh, actually. Yeah. Yeah, they, like, dropped all his charges, which is fucking crazy.

Did you ever see the original letters that he wrote? No, I didn't. We had that in our intel packages. That motherfucker should have rot in prison for the last of his life. I didn't see that. I was in Intel at the time, and so we got... We got word preemptively right when it happened. And we got spun up to go do TCPs, and we were checking every car going out of the country.

Like, we were trying to search for him. And we'd be out there for a week. I was like, we were living in the ASB. We're running out of water, running out of gas. We're like wiping with our, like cutting our socks, wiping. We're like, what the fucking at first? Like the first day we wrote up. Oftentimes I hunt with two sleeves and two socks and come back with.

half of each. Yeah, just for pleasure. I mean, sometimes it's hot. It's just, it's lighter. It's more room in the rucksack, you know what I mean? Sometimes I just wear two pairs of socks. Drop that way. Wear two pairs of socks to start your patrol.

That's the ticket. Checkmate. That's what I should have done on that. But I was like ill prepared. I didn't know we were going to be out there that long. I think, you know, I always have the 72 hour bag, but we had no idea. And it was just so shitty. I remember being so mad at that dude.

Like, so at first we were like, fuck yeah, let's go get our boy. We like spun up so fast and you know that feeling of like spinning up. You risk everything. Yes. To try to legitimately save somebody who is in need. Yes. We were like, fuck yeah. Let's go.

We were fired up and then we got word of kind of what really went down. And then we were like this motherfucker. Yeah. And just out there in the shit. Yeah. So that was my first appointment out there with Bergdahl. I had a lot of good experiences and got to work with a lot of different units and guys out there and really dipped my toes into that combat world quite fast with that first deployment.

I didn't know what I expected when I deployed. You hear these kids like going in my second deployment. I had guys to be like, oh yeah, I can't wait to get over there and murder motherfuckers. I'm like, eh, you're going to cry. Yeah. Yeah, like, what the fuck? Like, you know, that mentality going in there, it's just so bizarre to me and so weird,

but like all the training that we did and training, I was deployed out of Germany and we did a lot of training in Baumholder and I'm like super grateful for the amount of training that we did. I hate it at the time, all the training, like months spent in graph and everything, but it like truly prepared me to go over there as best it could.

So yeah, so I went over there that first deployment. I got fucked up. Got a couple of firefights. One firefight was at provincial headquarters. It ended up being like a three and a half hour firefight. And we had like three trucks. We were like in the compound. We were just dropping some equipment, getting ready to roll out.

And they had the high ground going on us. But I think this one of the scariest parts of that firefight, though, was the Afghan that national police show. shooting over my head from behind me. So I'm like, oh no. Like, you know, like, thanks guys, but fuck, you know, rocking the 50. So, yeah, so I went back from that appointment. Tried to heal a little bit.

My body was all fucked up. I got injured. What did you get injured from? I took a bunch of shrapnel and got shot on that deployment. I got blown up. And it really rocked me. I used to be like 20 pounds heavier of muscle, though. And I think that really helped, like, the entire.

integrity of my joints. I was in pain. It rocked me, but I was able to, like, keep it moving. And I healed end country. I got back from that deployment, waived my dwell time, and went on another deployment. They were trying to retire me before that. They were like, uh, we should press this button. And I'm like, nah, it's okay. Like, I'm going to deploy. I did another deployment. and I was doing more mounted missions and I was still training the national police but I was like God squad which is like I ran the first sergeant in the commander squad so I was all over kind of running doing stuff but a lot of training with the police and run those joint missions so it was an easier deployment on my body I wouldn't have been able to like do all the mounted stuff and

the mountains and stuff like I was doing on my first just because all my injuries and And I still had to, like, have that come to Jesus talk with myself, I think, after I got home from that deployment. And then I went, like, CID. I went drug team. I had some hand and neck tattoos when I was active duty still, not to the extent that I have now. But that helped me on the drug team. But that was very short-lived because even just, like, holding my pistol on my hips because on my hardware is my pelvis. I have, like, rods and screws holding it all together.

This is reconstruct. My shoulder's reconstructed. Jesus. Yeah, I need a, I need to, they wanted to reconstruct my knee as well. But I blew it out on the gunners stand, that like metal platform. When in one of the firefights, the initial shots, like they shot into my truck and all the the radio mounts and all of that and the fragmented bullet all just like peppered me in the back of the legs and like took me out, like knocked me forward. So I like blew my whole.

knee out. So yeah, I got kind of roughed up a little bit. Yeah, it sounds like. I pushed past it. I probably waited a little bit too long. I tried to like just keep pushing. Like I didn't even get surgery until like I couldn't walk probably like 10 feet anymore and I was like puking all the time and pain just like my sister was talking to me one time and I was like, what was that? I was like, oh my back hurts real bad. How did you not notice this? Oh, I mean they did. I mean I was on a permanent But my second deployment, that unit, I was on a permanent profile, but still like running PT for like special population and all that. I'm like, y'all know I can't even run, right? I'm just like I'm like this in shape on purpose because I'm stubborn.

Like I refuse to let them win. I refuse to let anyone win. But yeah, I was running special, special pop PT and I'm like, I have a permanent profile. But like half the company, no one knew that I had that because I just, I just put my head down and keep. working. I'm going to work harder, in fact, because that, like, I'm going to run circles around you because you think that I shouldn't be able to walk at all. You know, it's just a point where you couldn't walk at all. I did. I did. That's exactly what happened. Yeah. Yeah. I may have not handled that well. I don't know. I think I did. I'm familiar with that level of stubbornness.

Yeah. So, you know, I ended up having the surgeries, went through the surgeries. My last surgery was actually up here in Missoula like two years ago coming up on two years. Really? Through the VA? Yeah, community care. There's a really good neurosurgeon in Missoula that did my surgery up here, added some screws to my back, my hip and back, and I walked out of the hospital that day. How was your departure from the Army?

Not good. Not good. I was in the middle of retiring and they demoted me for my marriage. marriage. Yeah. That checks out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like when I went in there, my commander was like, don't worry. Like, they all had my bag. They're like, this is crazy. I mean, you look at my NCOER and everything. I'm like, there's no way that like this is silly what's happening. And I'm like, I'm literally retiring. What year was this? 13. Okay. Yeah, 13. And again, they had to go back and recant some stuff for my ex

because of the way that some things were handled. One of my, my LT from my first deployment happened to work at Battalion. I kind of got a heads up about how fucked they were, they were about to do, yeah. Jericho, what's she leaving out?

I don't know, but I will say this is like hearing this story, like, I know the story, but like, That timeframe, I'd say 2010 to 2014, so many people, I can only speak from my community. And, you know, a little bit of like the SEAL community and stuff. They, there were a lot of senior leaders in the seat that didn't understand the impacts of like, hey, at this point, we've been at war for 10 years, 12 years, 13 years, 14 years. And they were starting to see, like, what they would view as discipline.

plan issues, but we're actually just human issues that are the result of an organization that has just been running at the speed of war for fucking too long. The Army's not done for that. They got to that seat because they were at the top end of their operational career when the war kicked off and they ascended to likely staff positions to get back into that seat. And they had a disconnect between the people who had their boots metaphorically on the ground. Yeah. And I know of so many people that, you know, they got. at a minimum run out of the unit, but at a maximum,

I know people that have been, like, chaptered out of the army, like court, not court-martialed, but, you know, chapter, admin separation, yeah, like a general discharge or whatever,

but basically like, hey, thanks for, you know, your last eight years of fighting in this war, but because you, like, got drunk and gotten a couple fights,

we're going to kick you out with zero benefits. And that happened a lot in that time frame. And I do have a little bit, I don't, but I'd like to say I have empathy for the senior leadership at the time because they didn't know yet. You know what I mean? And it was their job to know.

Yeah. That's where my empathy ends on that a little bit. Like if you find yourself in the seat, fucking act as if. You know what I mean? It's your job to figure out. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon because I think I would say military wide, probably. I don't give a shit, special operations or not. long-term exposure to a combat environment,

it will scramble your eggs. I don't give a shit how pristine your frying pan is in front of you. Your eggs will not be the same at the end. Maybe not scramble them, but you have to recognize what you're asking of people and the duration that you're asking of them. And then let's just look a little historically. Like, this is weird. Where are these incidents coming from?

They seem to be on the rise as we have exposed the vast majority of our folks to these environments. Maybe there's a correlation. Maybe we should dig into that fucking coalition. Yeah, man. Like, I was a, when I was a first starting 175, when I took my company, the company I took had been one of the surge companies. So they'd been on, like, if you've heard of Merrill or Darby or that, T.F. Merrill, T.F. Darby,

they'd basically deployed twice in a row where the rest of the battalion had deployed once. So they were the surge. Come back, and I'm having a few, like, discipline issues in my company. And, like, my CSM is just fucking dickweed. What's going on over there? I'm like, I don't know, maybe these guys are burnt the fuck out. And we brought them back and we're going straight into the same training cycle as the rest of the battalion is. But these guys have worked literally twice as hard and long, taking all these casualties.

And now we're just going to throw them into the deep end of the, you know, the training cycle pool again. And it's the same thing that I've seen it all over. And it's like, I wish that there could be some kind of a, what's a. called retrograded policy or like that they could they could put together some kind of a team that goes in and looks at like okay we we we we gave this person a general discharge in 2013 after these discipline issues and like be like all right well maybe we should just let that guy retire you know like give him the benefits as if he'd retired at 12 years or whatever the case may be but like I think that is something that should absolutely be looked at

because we made a lot of mistakes as as leaders in that time frame. I don't think I've asked you this, but I've asked most of my friends who spent a good amount of time in a combat environment. What are both of your thoughts on actually limiting combat exposure in a career? I know how I would... What are the parameters of that? What do you mean by limiting it? There's a top...

There's a glass ceiling to how much you will let people experience. I know guys who have done 14, 15, 16. 17, 18 fucking deployments, like at a J-Soc level, to say that they are not the same human being, and that they were on the front end. Problem is, I know how I would have responded if I had been had a glass ceiling placed upon me. And so, I mean, it's obviously,

we're talking in a vacuum a little bit, but for the benefit of everybody who serves and maybe to reduce things like that, is the military, should the military, be responsible for limiting the actual exposure. I'm actually landing more and more on yes. Don't get rid of the person. Put them into a billet where they can still serve and give back.

But how much are we willing to destroy people for what we ask of them? Yeah, man. I know I've had... How many GWAT legends do you know that are barely functional outside of the military? Fucking alcoholic fifth or six marriage. Yeah. In debt, bankrupt, substance abuse issues. Catastrophic.

Yeah, it's like what's the like I think there should be a ceiling. I think that's a good idea. I don't know what it would be and I think people would push back on it, but I think that's the role of the leadership is to look at things like that and make sure that we are at least putting our best foot forward with our people. It, I mean, as I thought about now, there already is a limit. It's just a matter of when we choose to have that person reach that limit, right? And what circumstances make them select, either self or organizationally select to not go back to combat, right? All those people you know, like, and it was a thing that I had an advantage of when I went into the Ranger Edge. My dad was there and he's like, hey, everybody leaves and it's never on your terms. Yeah. and for me that's that's a thing that like if they had put that into place when I was there

I'd have been like fuck you yeah 100% on the receiving it you'd be like motherfucker this is all I've ever wanted to do I'm not like those other people yeah 20 years later you're like fucking putting lipstick on in the shower drinking yourself to sleep yeah yeah and as a hypothetical obviously yeah but eventually eventually it happens I think that it would it would help a lot lot of people's transitions in that they weren't self or organizationally selected. They just hit the wall. They hit that magic number and it's not their fault. You know what I mean?

Like survive with honor type scenario. Because shit, I had, I've had several people from regiment tell me that when they were like being told, hey, you need to go out and do like a career broadening assignment. You need to go be a this or that. Disassociated to her. Yeah. You need to go do a joint tour. More than one occasion, people have said, like,

you want to end up like Denman? Like, he's fucking, like, burnt the fuck out. Like, fuck it, this not. You are your brother. Me. And, you know, which is kind of like, that's kind of cool. Like, oh, man, that guy did so much combat. He's fucking crazy now.

But, like, that's also fucked up, right? That is something that was seen in the organization and no one fucking stopped it. you know so i i do think it's a good idea i don't know if it needs to be necessarily a x number of months or if it's like go serve this long in the line take this type of assignment come back if it's genuinely associated with literal combat or just being i don't know what you would call in the teams like we call it being in the line like you're a fucking shooter that's what you do like but there is definitely there does need to be a system in place

to protect people from their own pride in that in that scenario yeah it's a longer term problem than I think the military has the bandwidth to pay attention to because that person who sees too much does too much whatever you want to call it being on the line or whatever the military can insulate them for a little bit but then when they release them out into the civilian world the damage that they can cause even from a reputational basis on the military hard to quantify because in the era that we live in I look at the era

my dad coming back from Vietnam not the world we're living in for sure right like fuck good luck walking down main street in any city in the US and not having like yay that's this or thank you for your service and all that stuff and then you have a guy who can open any door guy or gal

it's like you can go through any door because of what they did and they're a galactic fuck up because of that it just it shits on everything yeah yeah Yeah, there is There is almost There's no easy way of saying We get too much

We get too much fucking like Go ahead and say it Don't be like a Richard gear Don't go like jerbling It's too much People give us too much credit Out of the gate Not me, I'm fucking awesome

But Yeah of course You get the appropriate amount of credit Not enough Usually not enough No but that And I'm not saying like vets don't deserve that.

What I'm saying is a lot of them it fucks them up to where they can't reach their max potential because they just think they're entitled. Or they have opportunities in front of them that they're clearly not qualified for because they were a veteran even though their service has nothing to do with the opportunity presented to them. So they trip over

their dick and then it's like that door shuts for everybody behind you. Yeah, that's a good point. I've seen people like, hey, you are this or you or that come do this thing and they don't have the tools to do. that thing and then you were a fucking ranger battalion dude come be a hedge fund trader with yeah yeah and then you know six months into it like that guy's a fucking piece of shit he

doesn't know how to trade hedges or whatever the fuck it is it was a lawn care service place what fuck's going on here yeah it's a true story they do all have bright futures at peeping tom window cleaning service so peeping tom windows dot com is not a big deal website comes in it's one of the one of the few things i have very few good ideas the only good idea i had at the college Coffee shop was the C-130 bathrooms in the hallway. That was the only thing I fucking brought to the table. It is a cool bathroom. It's not bad.

Yeah, it's not bad. What do you think should happen with old Bell Bergdolle? What's not skimming with that shit? Yeah, I think a lot has happened to him already that, you know. I think Elon Musk would be safe to call him for advice on his tunneling company, from what I heard the Taliban did to his asshole. Correct. That's what I mean. Speaking of jirbling.

Right. Like, I think so much has been done to that kid at this point that, like, all right, go be free. First, I think they have to release the actual information that they have. I agree with that. Like, what's the fucking story? And then the decision should be made there. Tell the actual story. Release the actual letters that he wrote.

Yes. And then let's decide from there. Not some bullshit narrative. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think so. But then on the other hand, it's like, again, like, he went through so much over there.

I mean, and that was his fucking decision. that was on his own volition. So he made that bed, and I hate to be that way. But he put a lot of lives at risk and cost a lot of life. So, yeah, I think it's a weird thing. They just completely let him go after all of that. After we traded, like, how many five prisoners, like some of the top Taliban? I think so, yeah.

Five, six of them, something crazy. Yeah. After all of it, yeah. And then it just leaves. But again, I mean, that kid's never going to be the same. It's a hard time walking. Yeah, for fucking sure.

Shitting too, probably. I mean, you don't get raped by the Taliban for like... I don't know if he has a hard time shitting. It might just fall out due to gravity. Yeah. I mean, shitting when and where he wants. Yeah, it's... I wrestle with that too because, like, let's say...

We're like, hey, like, let's say he didn't... None of the horrible shit that happened to him at the hands of the Taliban happened, right? And we were like, we're going to sentence you to, you know, five years of getting raped by the Taliban for doing this. We'd be like, holy fuck, bro, that's, that's crazy. But that happened through his choices, and he didn't know that was going to happen, right? So I don't, I go back and forth, like, should we factor that in to how we treat him now according to the letter of the law? Because of what previously happened to. Right.

Like if he had, you know, walked off his camp, been held hostage by the towel, all the time. Everything happened the same, but he got treated great. I think that we should be having the same conversation there. You're right. You know what I mean? I feel bad for him because he got raped. And so I'm like, yeah, he has to live with that. Let him go.

But then you're like, you're completely correct. Like, we shouldn't factor that in. He made these decisions. He did that. And like, oh, because he got raped. for those many years. Like, we're just going to learn like, oh, that was a tough imprisonment

that you walked on to intentionally on your own regard. Yeah. You know, no easy answers on that one for sure. That's a tough conversation. And to be fair, if they do release them, I'm not like, motherfucker. Like, okay, I get it.

Like, his life is still going to be shit for the rest of it, you know? I think he's an Idaho boy. If he does release it, I think he'll be just down there. I think he, actually might be from Cordillane or Sandpoint or what he's to. Yeah. Yeah. Recognizable name for sure. Yeah, he's got a long road to hoe in front of him regardless.

Yeah. So, uh, what's his name? Didn't what's his name? Just John Walker, the American Taliban. Didn't John Walker, Lind, I believe he is out as well. Yeah, he just got out a little while ago. I also believe that he is still, and I might be talking completely out of my ass here, but I think he's still devoutly, uh, an extremist, uh, Islamist. Yeah, he got Islamic extremist. He got more hardlined in prison. Not uncommon. Yeah. Not uncommon of people going into prison and actually coming out either a better criminal or deeper into their beliefs, what they went in there for. Yeah.

It's wild. And that's one of those ones like, I mean, we're. Did he get released, Michael? Can you double check that? We were in the mill like when that happened. And I remember when they found, I hadn't even been to Afghanistan yet when they captured him and all that. And I was like, man, he's just a fucking dumb ass. Like, that's what I thought.

Like, oh, he's not really a terrorist. He's just like some dumb kid who fucking got mixed up. He was both of those things. But now, fuck that, dude. Did he get released, Michael? John Walker. Yeah. Yeah, he's released after 17 years, it says.

17 years. It's a long time. Where'd he do his time? Was he in, like, a federal prison, or was he in Gitmo? No, I don't know if he ever went to Gitmo. I think he did his time in a Fed prison. Does it say, Michael? Yeah, I'm trying to look at it right now.

Is Gitmo still open? Yes. Is it going to stay open when the... Didn't the Chinese just do like a $3 billion deal to do a base in Cuba? I don't know. I don't read the news. I like very sparingly read the little. It's like a fine line.

It's like I need to know a little bit of what's happening in the world, but also still be sane. I think there are still a few people in Guantanamo. I think it's a shell of what it originally was. Yeah. It's max capacity. But it is my understanding that there are still people there. Yeah. I think there was talks of like closing it years and years.

years ago and then now with this Chinese saying they're going to build a base I could see that I was just curious I'm like yes we'll take your money come on in yeah yeah he was in the Indiana Indiana is where he was in prison okay so federal what

what did you do after you go to the military after I got on the military I went to college and what did you study business management and I hated it. I was super into some of the classes, the history, anthropology was really cool, world religion, things like that.

I enjoy learning. But there's just some things that I didn't enjoy. And then the culture of the college, I saw it. It's very weird for me coming out. And this was 2014, so this is before really the height of it. But I could see the shift, especially coming out in the military, and then going into college, it was just a lot. lot more liberal. I wrote this paper was really just a rant.

And my teacher, I remember her looking at me, like, kind of crazy, but about, like, free speech and political correctness and how it was like, I could see it at the college campus, like, going away. I'm like, this is crazy. Like, these kids' opinions and, like, can't have, like, a true debate or conversation or difference of opinion. And I could just see it really early on. So that was kind of a weird thing for me.

Where'd you go to school? In Georgia. Okay. So I went to college in Georgia and had surgeries, the trajectory of my injuries. It was just like sitting and the seat sucked. I would stand. Like I had to like really schedule my classes very carefully. And then I like, yeah, so I was going to the surgery.

surgeries and having that and I kind of just went from college to surgery and the surgery just really ground me. My first was the reconstruction of my shoulder. Reconstruction of my shoulder and I needed to be able to get that done because I need to be able to hold myself up on like the walker and all that stuff and the cane for my pelvis stuff. But I just kind of started on that journey and as I got closer to like the injuries it made me like kind of have to come face to face with things in Afghanistan and in my career that I like just shoved under the rug or honestly forgot about like forgot that it even happened that's the way that trauma works I'm like oh yeah that did happen for completely forgot about that um so with my when I got the rods put in I couldn't walk for like

two months. I had to relearn how to walk, like, figure my gate out again. It was, like, completely new. So, um, the, uh, the VA, I was out in California at the time. The VA and Palo Alto did, um, which is like right there by Stanford. They did my surgeries. Um, and my, a lot of my PT and stuff. And they were, they were really great. Um, but all that made me, like, realized my mental shit. And so, like, I was not in a good space. Uh, I was just always like, I literally pushed until I couldn't push anymore. Like I have like pushed this machine to the max of like push it to its limits and I'm like super grateful but I also like probably should have slowed it down a bit. So I like push this machine to the max and honestly to avoid I think the mental stuff.

And having the surgery kind of made me sit down, forced me to sit down and couldn't walk anymore and like think about all that. And so that kind of led me, had friends in the nonprofit world. I reached out to them and then kind of started diving into that mental health arena and non-profits. And I wasn't getting any help in the VA, even at Paula Otto, which is they were very amazing for all my, like, injuries. But my mental health, I was like, I just need someone to talk to. Like, I have some shit going on up here. Like, I just want talk therapy. Like, let me just talk to someone.

And they tried all these different, like, cognitive, like, the whole shebang. I'm like, just let me like fucking talk to someone. I don't want to do all this other stuff. You're making me actually feel crazier. And they just couldn't offer that for me. I'm like, this is crazy. Like, so I was like, what, like, who's doing what in the veteran community? Who's actually helping?

And so I just went out and, like, kind of vetted a bunch of different nonprofits. And like, like, in my head, I was going to start my own thing at first or something. If, like, if, but I found, I ended up founding a couple of nonprofits that are really, I think, making a difference. I went through a program and ended up being instructor for it and then become the director of the program. Briefly, it's called Progressive and Alternative Training for Healing Heroes. So it's post-traumatic growth. And the curriculum is based off of these two UNC professors. They coined the term post-traumatic growth in like the 80s, and they help write all the curriculum.

So there's the training aspect of it. it and the educational proponent of it of like hey this is what's kind of going on we go into childhood trauma not just combat trauma and it is strictly for combat veterans and first responders um and then we teach meditation archery honestly it's like teaching you to get out of your own fucking way though and giving you that like space like helping you figure out how to have that space to respond and not be reactive and like um yeah it helped set me on a path um um And I was super grateful for it being an instructor and then helping run the program. I got to dive super deep into a lot of the aspects.

But I think the coolest thing was like no matter who goes through it, like he gets something out of it. Each program is a little different. I don't want to like cheapen it, but they basically franchised it. So like the nonprofit that founded it, they rolled it out to other nonprofits and had this huge big training. They did it really well. They did this huge big training program that they rolled out, like train the trainer. And so it's a little bit different at each location, the vibe of it and like what you get from the instructor. It can be a little cheesy if you let it with any of those type of things.

But I think the meditation and just the reset, I think, is really good. You can't go through it and I get something out of it. When I was running the program, I was like, man, civilians need this. Like everyone needs this if we could all get out of our own way, right? So, yeah, I dove in to had surgeries, went to college and kind of dove into the nonprofit world and got. kind of heavy into the nonprofit world and at the same time I was doing all that I mean I was healing and dealing with my own stuff while like running the program being an instructor I was like man this is the blind leading the blind right now like you can't believe you're letting me do this

but that's how that's how I feel like in the military too though like you know I was squad I'm a young squad leader I'm like in Afghanistan I'm like I'm walking to the talk and I'm like okay I got this like running through my my tasks of the day and then I'm like man I feel like I'm 16 I can't believe I'm in charge of all this shit oh well let me go get this millions of dollars worth of equipment and take all these people and like go raid this you know what I mean so I've always felt like that I'm like man I can't believe I'm let me let me let me when I jump out of a plane I'm like I can't believe they're letting me do this like all of it I can't ever really has that thoughts too everybody else on that plane has the same thought yeah yeah yeah actual what was the

hardest thing for you to deal with post military service but you said you were dealing with the aspect of it. What was the biggest room you had to get over? That was that was tough. I mean, it wasn't the physical stuff. I mean, how to relearn how to walk. I had to do. I was years. I was on a cane. I was on a walker, wheelchair. My dog is a service dog. He's retired now. But he helped me with mobility and stuff. So like, yeah, that was tough. That's fine. That's just physical. It was the mental. It was like, I think the way my career ended. I wasn't ready for it to end. I felt unfinished. And I didn't grieve it properly. I'd never grieved anything properly in my life at that point.

And it was just, yeah, it was just, I was angry. I was angry and I felt like, man, I gave my life for this thing. And no one gave a shit. They were like, bye. I'm like, what? Like, you know, so that would, like, hurt. That, like, hurt me. It really fucked me up, I think.

And then it was like, oh, and then I have no, like, I was, like, running missions and like doing something I thought was important and then I had I'm like oh what I'm supposed to go to college with these kids like what am I doing so I think the the mental aspect of like I'm just figuring it out of like all right there's like definitely life past the military but like for me it was like I always knew that that is what I was going to do and military school then military and then so it got all taken away from me really quick. Like I just wasn't ready. And you're never going to be ready, I think, to let go with something you don't want to let go of, but

I'm super happy the way that everything turned out now. But yeah, that mental aspect of it, it was tough. It's tough to transition and get out. And I think it's not easy for anyone. And you have that sense of community and then to leave that and then feel betrayed by part of it. It was it wasn't easy.

So I was a little bitter for a minute. You know, I was just angry. I wasn't bitter. It was sad. I was fucking for a couple years. Where are you going, Cherokee? You go pee. He's got to go pee.

We'll wait for him to come back. We can pause. Yeah, I think you have to do that first. Then you do the commercial shit, right? That is correct. Yeah. What does he want to do with his aviation career? Honestly, I think he just wants to fly at a drop zone.

So that we can jump out of the point. He wants to be the single bus board pilot on the face of planet with like thousands of hours but no cross-country time so therefore it's not really usable if you ever want to do something else with it I mean he's new to it maybe he'll figure something else out but I think that's his kind of plan right now Fuck that So how'd you find your way to black rifle Through the nonprofit realm I um I met some of the guys

at another nonprofit thing years ago. And it wasn't even like, I'd seen some of the videos like Matt and like blowing stuff up, you know, American flag, bikinis on tanks. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I know that guy. That's really my only experience with it. So, but I met Jay through the nonprofit. And then I was just kind of friends,

had friends in the company and was kind of around for about like two years or so. And then they launched the BRCC fund. And I came on, I was living up here at the time. Good old sea falls. Mm-hmm. And sea falls. I love it up here. I was living up here and they asked me to move down to Texas and come work for the fund.

and I just got out of, it was like recovering from surgery and getting over that. So things were expensive here. I was just like, you know what? Why not? Like, I'm recovering. I can go down south for the winter anyway, probably better on my back. And so I went down and lasted about six months in Texas, and then they moved me up to Salt Lake. Which I think is better than Texas.

Yes. Yeah, Salt Lake's really growing on me. It's really growing on me. The Mormons? Yeah, I love it. You know, just... There are some of the nicest people that ever... They are super nice.

They are super nice. I mean, be curious to see what they say behind me behind my back, but super nice to your face. Let's be generous and say they don't say anything behind your back. Just like Jesus. Yeah. I think Jesus would be an excellent shit-talker. He'd have all the information. Yeah, yeah.

And they would know how to make it sting the most. For sure. He'd fuck you up in a verbal confrontation. That's not a good one, for sure. So the BRCC fund, what does it do? So that is a very good question. They are right now in the middle of a change of leadership in the fund and a change of mission. And I've been out of the fund now.

Move over more into media and branding. So I've been out of loop. Is what we call it. Correct. Correct. So they're changing their mission, but it was started during COVID to help veterans financially. Either with their business or there's some circumstances which are a little more personal, which, you know, the company doesn't talk about, which I think is just super honorable. Not everything has to be on Instagram. Correct.

you know and it's kind of sad because I feel like in a lot of ways the company gets shut on for like the silliest things but I'm like you have no idea how many like people that this company has helped and like the things that they actually do behind behind the scenes but they don't talk about it because that's gross like we shouldn't have to say it you know nobody's going to be nice until Evan apologizes to Kyle that's what it's posted on just about everything black rifle that I that I put up it's fucking crazy It is insane. Free Kyle. Yeah. And for people who are hoping that I'm going to explain that, I'm not going to. No. I can go into Google and like. Just go in the comment sections of anything on the internet and you'll learn the truth.

It's fucking insane. How incredibly myopic some people can be when it comes to one particular issue. You know what I like to ask people about? If I'm in the mood to troll trolls back, I ask them what the stance of their favorite sandwich shop was on the Kyle here at the house. debacle oh you like you like Jimmy Johns what do they say about it yeah you about where you get your gas or shop for your groceries like Campbell's soup fuck wire yeah it's awesome so you switched over to the media side yeah no I became part of a

two-person fire team elite elite fire team where did the idea of skydiving come about I mean I suspect it was from the chucklehead on your right shoulder. So for me personally or for the company? I kind of have an idea about where it came about for the company. No, for me personally, so I... We should mention, though, that the vast majority, and by that, I mean about half the people who started originally down the AFF pipeline with the company did not graduate.

They did not graduate. AFF historically... Just a select for you, baby. AFF is historically not a course They're in a high attrition As a matter of fact It's designed to pass everyone Yeah, yeah, yeah

Because it's not hard Why do you think Many at Black Wraper Coffee Did not finish AFFFF? I will say, to be fair Our ground school was terrifying We had a guy, I won't name his name But

I thought that they were fucking with us The amount of like weird Faces of Death Yeah Yeah, yeah. Well, my ground school was the same. Like, you literally just sit there for an entire day and talk about every little thing that can go wrong. Every little, and you're like, oh, I'm going to fucking die.

But it was like, it was, it was like an organ. And he was talking about sabotage and like all kinds of shit. And like, as if he was a saboteur or sabotaged? He had been sabotaged in the past. Did anybody verify this story? Yes. Yes. Was it bullshit to?

No, no. He really got sabotaged. Someone sewed his cutaway handle shut. All right, pop quiz for you new jumpers. You try to pull your cutaway handle, and it doesn't work. What would you do? What's the mechanism that makes me want to pull it? Follow your heart.

You provide the... Do I have, like, a horseshoe or... Low speed malfunctioned. So I have a... I have something out. You're 3,500 feet trying to cut away, but you can't. Because you pull like a pussy at like four, so... I'm just going to...

If I can't pull my cutaway handle, pulling it as hard as you can. Is it worse to have a two out or not, or to just try and ride this fucking thing in that I have over the head? Are those only two options you have? And, what I give you. I know, like, do you get more silk above you or? I don't know what the book is going to say on this one,

because nowhere in any fucking book is it going to give you the hypothetical situation where your cutaway pillow has been fucking sewn. And what I'm about to give is not skydiving advice. What I'm telling you is I would be reaching, for my hook knife. Yeah, yeah, good call. You know, the hook knife is something that's on every fucking, not every, but like most pairs, you see them all the time.

No one practices pulling that thing and using it. Nor do they know where it is even at on most of their gear. That's why the rigs that you guys are getting made, you can have them put on the leg straps where they're super easy to grab. You can get metal ones that are smaller. Most plastic, like the fucking military issue hook knife. Yeah. If you tried to cut something with any level of torque, it's just going to snap.

Yeah. And you're like, oh, well, that was a good idea. and you can think about that idea until you impact the ground at a fucking high-wave speed. Yeah. I mean... Personally, I would cut away,

literally cut with a fucking hook knife my main and deploy my reserve. Yeah. Altitude permitting. More silk out over your head is probably always best. If I'm ever found dead, it won't be with fucking handles unpole.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's, I mean, that's a question I've never thought about because it's not something that should happen. Much like,

Much like having a saboteur on the drums. Yeah, right. Who, first off, find out who did that and immediately beat them the fucking death in the parking lot. Also, what did that guy do that would make that guy want to do that? That was my question. I was like, what did he do to make someone want to fucking... It was a woman scorned. Checks out.

Honestly, if I had to guess, that's probably where I'm going. That checks out. For sure. He cheated. So, though, don't avoid my original question. BRCC employees, why did half of them not complete the course? Don't make me name names. J.T.

J.T. just didn't like it. Yes. So he's like, I don't want to do it anymore. Walking vagina. Absolutely respected his decision. He did say just two weeks ago, though, that he wants to go back to it. Yeah, he's going to come back. Yeah, he's going to say one time once.

He wanted to eat some salads, too. How was that working out for him? No, J.T.'s, well, here's a thing when J.T. didn't finish. He was like, I don't like this, but he stayed. Yeah. And he participated in everything but the jumping. Yeah, which doesn't count. But he was still a team player, man.

I was just about saying, what a team player. He was there. He's still a good cheerleader. He's a good cheerleader. He's a good cheerleader. You know, if it's not for you, it's not for you. Hi, guys, I'm here with beers when you're ready. Again, traditionally, not a high attrition rate with AFF.

Matt got hurt. 90th percentile of success. 99.999. 99.99. And Matt got hurt. Matt hurt himself. I mean, it's a high risk. I have watched people put themselves in a wheelchair based off the landing.

than Matt did. He got, I actually texted him. I was like, bro, you got fucking lucky. Please don't do that anymore. Yeah. Yeah, it's scary. Who else quit? There was more.

What's his name? Eli. Why? I don't think he wanted to do it anymore. I think that was his reason. Okay. Yeah. You were not there on the initial course, though, right?

Or you were? I was, yeah. Okay. Yeah. So you were in the Mod 1 course, and then you went through recently, right? Yeah, I went through. I've only been just. for like three months.

I went through in April. In Arizona as well? Yeah. Great place to do it in April. No, it is. It's like they have great weather. It wasn't bad. It got a little hot.

I went down for her last few. In the afternoons, but it was, I mean, we were up early. We were doing it. It was just two of us going through the course. It's better than doing it in July. Yeah. Oh, shit. Yeah.

I loved it down there. Sarah Curtis was my coach. She's so rad. Yeah. Amazing. Her husband is one of the best tunnel flyer. as we were seeing Steve. So I got to do tunnel time with them.

She was my coach to jump. Like, I'm super grateful for the training that I received. And I get to jump with, like, people that are so much better. Like, literally some of the best skydivers in the world I'm jumping with. So, like, I do not take that for granted. I'm trying to soak up all the knowledge and obtain it and learn and get really good at this. Because if you're not good at it, you could probably fucking die. So, yeah.

So I'm enjoying it. I'm still scared. half the time, so nervous. Me too. Yeah. So. I didn't time I look over, Mike's really on my photograph,

being fucking terrified. I wanted to go airborne to circle back to your question, how I got into the jumping. I wanted to go airborne when I was in the Army and my career got ended short, but my first appointment,

I re-enlisted for airborne en route, and then I got fucking hurt. And so I called Branch and honestly got as close as to my mom as I could. I was like, I just want my mom. Like, I'm hurt, my body's fucked up. I know I'm also, like, even though I want to have family in Anchorage,

and I was deployed with those guys, and so I wanted to go up there and be airborne, and knew a lot of people and had family up there. I was like, I can't go up there to an airborne unit and not be airborne. So I waived it all and called Branch. And so that just wasn't in the cards for me, and I didn't think it was ever going to be. And then after all these surgeries,

and the past two years, I've been off, like, all the canes and, like, everything. I'm still in a lot of pain. I have a lot of nerve damage on my left side. Like, I don't feel, like, connected to my left leg sometimes, if that makes sense. Like, sometimes I'm just, like, willing it. So I'm like, all right, come on, like, when I'm hiking and stuff. Like, I still would probably do a lot of things I shouldn't do. I, like, really still try to push myself.

But now it's, like, before it was like, well, I have to have to have. have these surgeries, so I'm going to push myself. And now it's like, well, I had these surgeries, so now I'm going to push myself in this new body. But yeah, so to be able to, like, go back and, like, you know, it's not different. It's not static line. It's free fall. You understand that's better, right?

Have you explained to her what she missed out with? Well, I'm going to go do the static line. I completely understand that it's way better. But I am going to do a static, doing a static course in October. And so I can jump around in Normandy and do the first. free fall. But how about just the latter part of that? Yeah.

You know, I didn't know if my body could handle a hit, like, from the rounds, honestly. It's not awesome. I think 80 static line jumps. They're not great. But I've taken a couple hard hits, you know, my fault. I'm landing with free fall. So I'm like, oh, my body can take it. Like, hopefully let's not do that a lot.

But my body can hold up, so I feel good about that. So I am going to do a static line. But yeah, so when I move from, like, the fund, the nonprofit realm over to the media side. And that was in discussion, the free fall was part of that discussion. I'm like, okay, if I'm going to move and do something new and do this new realm and like, then like let's skydive too. And it really just came full circle and to be able to do that, like after retirement, after my surgery. So it's kind of special.

It's awesome. Yeah. Dude, Jericho, you got to talk about the Normandy trip you guys did. Yeah. I mean, first of all, like, everybody should know we're going back for the 80th anniversary, which is going to be awesome. You're coming. But, yeah, so the 79th anniversary went with a group called the Round Canopy Parachute Team.

That's where Jenna's going to go in October. It's an amazing. group of people like they do about four or five events a year where they bring in vets who were either airborne qualified or they weren't and they teach them like if you were airborne qualified they give you a refresher if you weren't then they put you through jump school so that you can jump static line how long is their jump school a week that doesn't make sense when I went to basic airborne it was four weeks there's less formations do they have a swing landing trainer they do they do but it's like they don't really it's like they don't really use it it's like everybody's like oh this is

dumb yeah do you spend a week doing PLFs uh you do a PLF every day so I guess that counts at least one oh shit but no they're their their POI is actually really awesome like I was impressed by it like I went there and did uh so I was a jump master I did a jump master refresher and then kind of like just observed the whole week so that I can become a jump master for them and I was like a jump master for them and like, man, this is like impressive because everybody learned everything. Or it's depressing that like the Army takes three weeks to teach people how to jump out of a plane. But it's, it's an awesome group, the Round County Preachute Team. They, you know, like you guys were talking about before, the things that you miss when you get out of the military, these teams and like that like

camaraderie and like feeling a part of something. And they really truly bring that back for people. there were guys there that I talked to and they're like this this shit saved my life like having this group of people that I can you know have everyday communication with I have these events few times four times a year that I look forward to I have a job here you know they have you know parachute rigors and you know everybody there kind of has a little job within the organization just like you do in the mill so I linked up I don't even remember truly how I I linked up with them. But went down with Logan. Logan never did static line in the mill. So he had to go through the whole kitten caboodle. And jump with those guys. And they were like, hey, yeah, just come check us out.

And then as we were down there, they were like, you know, we're, I was like, why is everybody here doing this this time? Well, we're jumping into Norman. You know, I was like, okay. Tell me more. Yeah. Tell me more. So, you know, just kind of tied in with them.

got black rifle coffee a few slots to jump on their static line rips that they did and then also i was like hey man the plane's here let's do a let's do a free fall as well and most of the guys that have been in the round canopy team for a while are free fall guys as well um so yeah we went to normandy set up uh one static line jump for us and then uh one free fall jump and man it was it was it was it sounds so cheesy and cliche like oh that's indescribable it fucking really was like the jump or just being in normandy being in normandy was amazing but like doing the jump was like one of those like you know when we were on triple seven there were a couple of those jumps where i just like it was like an out of body experience yeah like when you're falling over the top

of the great pyramids yeah like what the actual fuck is going on right here is this my life am i in a fucking video game what is this having a heat casualty over the top of antarctica Fuck it up too much. Yeah, yeah. It was the same. And then being there with, you know, that team of guys, it was just really cool. Like the, and the reverence and the respect they show to the World War II generation. And, you know, it was, you know, karma, fate, serendipity, whatever.

But, like, there were about 30 drops planned for the, you know, the week of celebrations there between, like, the second and. and the 8th of June. And three of them went. Two of them we were on. So it was like, because the weather was complete and utter. Shit trash the whole time. Was that abnormal?

Yeah. The people that were there, like, the other drop that happened was sockier. So like a military drop, but none of the military static line drops happened. Yeah. Just one military free fall jump. our static line that me and Logan jumped on

with the round canopy team and then the free fall jump we did. We need to get on the military birds next year. Do we? We need to get on every bird next year. Yeah, I mean, I've never jumped out of a quote high performance aircraft yet. Really? Like a ramp? I'm assuming they had like a 130.

Well, I mean, I've jumped static line out of everything, but I've never free-falled out of like a 130 or a C-7. or anything like that. It's pretty dope. Yeah, I bet. But, yeah, it was great. The static line drop we did was on a place called Alphreville or Lafayere. But it was basically, it was one of the 82nd Airborne's objectives during World War II.

The spot we landed had actually been flooded. So a lot of guys, like, jumped in there and drown. And it was, it was just like heavy. You know what I mean? It was like a fun time, camaraderie, a lot of respect. But it was also like very, very, like, Wow, this is serious. This is like a big deal.

So, yeah, then, you know, we were talking about it, I think, with you last night. The Normandy region of France during the D-Day anniversary. It's like a time machine. It's weird, but I don't mean to say weird, like, in a bad way. It's people there from the time they were kids have celebrated D-Day as their, like, liberation day. so you see like toddlers walking around dressed as like a paratrooper and like you see like the whole family the whole family like grandpa's wearing a paratrooper uniform grandma's a nurse the toddlers are like little tankers like it's they're all dressed up it's at first you're like oh it's cool and then you go to a few places and like french people are mean to you and you're like we liberated you fuckers why are you being mean take off that uniform you don't even know what that means but it It's also pretty cool that like they have carried on this tradition of like paying homage to the group of Americans that came through and like liberated them. And they're still doing it to this day.

Like, you know, now it's like the super old lady that got handed a chocolate bar when she was like eight is there. And she's like old as fuck. So there's, you know, the fact that they're still remembering what we as a country or as the world did for them back then is pretty funny. is pretty fucking cool. But at times it can be crudgy. Did you guys go to the cemeteries? Yes. How crazy is that?

It was actually really beautiful. They did a great job of it. We went to the American cemetery right there off of Omaha, and the ocean's right there. They keep it really clean. The French have done a really good job and really take pride in keeping all that preserved and clean. and they do it with the utmost respect.

So. Yeah. Omaha was the opening sequence of saving pirate Ryan, right? Right. Yeah. How was it looking up on that beach up to the high grounds that they were literally fucking running towards? It's. I got teary.

It was like overwhelmed with emotion. We were standing there like 6.30 in the morning on D-Day. Yeah. Yeah. We went out and stood there at the exact time that the ramps dropped, you know, on wave one. And just because of. like the company I grew up in second range of battalion hit Omaha. If you look at the history, they were supposed to hit the cliffs, but there was supposed to be a signal.

If the signal didn't happen, it meant they hadn't reached the top of the cliffs and the contingency or the, you know, kind of plan B was that my company, Charlie Company, who is going to be in the second wave, if they hadn't gotten to the top, they were going to hit Omaha and then fight inland and then basically flank the cliffs. So they had reached the top, but they couldn't see the signal. So they hit Omaha. That's the company you see in saving private, Ryan. And they hit the, it's called Dog Green, Dog White Sectors. So I went and stood right there where that is at the time and just looked up. And how much open ground did they have to cover? About 400 meters is what it looked like to me.

I probably just fucking cited it. in belt-fed machine gun fire and like indirect. Yeah. And the other thing, the aerial bombardments were supposed to, like they planned, okay, these aerial bombardments are going to like make craters, which will create cover and concealment for the guys bounding up the beach. But it didn't work because when the tide rolled out, obviously it, the ocean made the craters go away, you know?

So, yeah, like, that's the thing that really boggles my mind. like it's very heavy and emotional, but I'm also thinking of it as a, you know, in a like, okay, let's think about this from a AAR standpoint. Like, and, you know, the other thing, when you look up at the beach and people that, you know, have never been a machine gunner, think about. They're like, oh, there's a guy there and he's shooting at me.

And it's like, no, no, no, no. Everybody on that beach is shooting like at a, you know, 70 degrees this way. And like there's these interlocking sectors of fire. So no one's shooting, like, directly out you. You're going to be running and you're going to take one, like, to the right side of your grape or the left side of your grape. Because you're running through, like, 50 interlocking machine gun sectors. And, yeah, it's, again, when you go to these places,

there's so many, like, cliches that come up in your mind, but you're like, how in the fuck did anyone survive this? Like, yeah, I wouldn't have wanted to do it. Numbers. Yeah. Sure, numbers. And I'm like, if I, if I, I'd been on that beach wall with like a bolt action rifle.

I could have killed a company of guys by myself. Yeah. You know, and yeah, it's, it's wild. And then, you know, when you meet, there were hardly, I mean, there's the best defense foundation, awesome foundation. They bring World War II veterans over and kind of like, they're just VIPs for that whole week. And they just take them around everywhere.

and they had, well, like, 45-ish vets, but only two of them, to my knowledge, were Omaha Beach guys. The rest were World War II vets in some way, shape, or form. And just when you talk to those guys, you're like, fuck, man, like, you being here has made, like, such an impact on the world because, like, there's got to be a fucking reason that you've made it off that beach.

Like, it's wild, like, hearing their stories, too, and you're just like, yeah, damn, like, I can fast forward to our era, be like, what do you mean we don't have the 160th? What do you mean you're not going to put me down on the Y? Like, I'm an offset what? I have to walk several kilometers at night with my night vision goggles. It's fucking hot out there. AC130s overhead and multiple ISR platforms.

Like, I didn't sign up for this shit. Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's, uh, there's so many things about. about just, I mean, we, we kind of immersed ourselves in the history of it before we left and we're reading books. And so, the other thing that's like weighed on me there was the people that were hitting that beach, like 18 months prior to that, they were in like a normal life. They weren't, you know, 12 year. Like the platoon sergeant for one of those ranger platoons that hit that beach hadn't been in the army for fucking 12 years. Like he, he was like everybody. else. Probably as a fucking school teacher. Yeah. Like two years ago he was, you know, pushing a broom at a high school or something.

And there he is. And what they did, it's like, holy fuck, man. Like, we could ramble on it about it all day, but it's just fucking impressive. Well, beyond the invasion, I mean, all of the warfare that occurred past that as well. It's like, just because you got made it to the edge of the beach. Didn't mean it was going to be a fucking picnic. Yeah. They could have gotten pushed back into the sea, man.

And like, real easy. There were so many. They literally was numbers. Like, they just kept coming. And at some point you got to think the Germans up there and their fucking machine gun positions are like, is this ever going to end? Yeah. Yeah. And Hitler was a total complete fucking moron lunatic.

That helped too. That checks out. But yeah, just that. And again, we read so much, but like, yeah. Like point to hawk, the like kind of feather in the cap of my old battalion. Like amazing. But people just think about them seizing the objective. They don't know about like, you know, the 48 hours plus of like.

German counter attacks that happened with armor and these dudes had a load out to climb cliffs you know so they had like their M1 and fucking a bandolier and they were fighting off fucking German armor you know it's it's fucking insane and again modern day soft's like

we gotta get out of here fucking AC130s they gotta take off the sun's coming up we gotta go it's like fuck oh shit yeah I'm looking forward to that trip for next year for sure I was so bummed I couldn't make him Evan seems like he enjoyed the trip, though. Hey, Evan, check the dates on the passports before the trip comes up.

Just as food for thought. Yeah, it's, it's, I mean, but honestly, like us going there and doing, I mean, it's, it's basically a scout because that region, it, it's, you know, it, it, it, the population of the region goes up like four X. Oh, so it's, it's like. And the 80th will probably be even higher than that way. It's one of the, what a decade ones. Yeah, it's... It's gonna be really big next year, they said. And, you know, these guys are getting old.

So, I mean, only a few more years of this for them, even making it out. I wonder if they want to keep making it out. I'm sure it's hiddenness, right? Everybody's experience, but I also wonder at some point if those people want to be able to put that down as well and just die in peace. Yeah. be tough to have your like I think it's an amazing thing I think we should never forget those stories

but at the same point I don't think anybody at this table when you're in your 80s wants to still be remembered for something you did in your 20s yeah you know yeah it's like my mission in life to do something other than that or better than that

or I don't know more encompassing than that not that I'm not proud of it but like fuck no for sure if I wanted to hang out and only be remembered for shit that I did in the fuck 20s I just go to VFW list of made-up stories.

That's what we're doing tonight. We're going to want to be a dummy. Apparently, it's great. J.T. was up here. He said it's like a, I actually have never been. It looks nice. It looks nice.

It looks nice. Yeah. They serve a black rifle coffee cream ale in there. No shit. Oh, cool. And a local brewery, uh, a biased brewery, uh,

through a batch together. I don't know how much of it remains. I'm not a beer guy, so I can't really, yeah, you know, just assume it tastes like victory. Yeah. It's going to taste good.

What do you would do the rest of your life? the rest of my life i have to ask you a question not allowed to ask a woman but how old do you know okay uh i am 35 i'll be 36 this year okay um i'm just living it i am i am enjoying jumping out a plan i just want to help people and i don't know um how that's going to transpire you know moving away from the nonprofit into the media but um i spoke with our new cmo and uh one of the vpses and really just want to marry that nonprofit media stuff where we've already been doing that everything. Like, yeah, we get to go and do these, like,

amazing, cool things and jump, but, like, we're also, like, helping people at the same time and bringing awareness to the community and what they're doing for people and supporting them with that camaraderie. You have to do both. Like, the Triple Seven, I've thought about that one a lot. It's really cool for the people who are there on the jump,

but getting anybody to pay attention to anything. thing in the modern world. It's just you're bombarded with information. You have like through our phones or smart TVs or fucking refrigerators at this point they play TV. Good luck trying to get anybody's attention without doing something that that stops people in their tracks a little bit. I don't know.

I don't know what else. I mean, unless you have like the one product on earth that nobody can live without, like you're in that same competitive space for people's attention that everybody else is. Yeah. Because you have the best foundation of the world, but if nobody knows about it, what the fuck's point. Correct. Yeah.

So I'm just kind of want to marry that together and continue to like serve in that capacity and get to do rad ship. Yeah. So it seems a little bit selfish, but I'm retired. It's selfish if you were doing it only for you. Right? Like if you weren't going to try to marry the two, like the triple seven was selfish for us. Mm-hmm.

From the enjoyment perspective. But I think the total we were. raise was like one and a quarter that's not selfish right that's educational scholarships for people generationally that are never going to be able to replace the whole that was created in their life for whatever reason and you know they're both valid but and they're both meaningful but I think you have to have to have to have both too I think it's part of the math yeah I agree working in the the nonprofit realm and even doing that serious type work but like we married it with some of like the archery the meditation, the more relaxed and the hiking, the kayaking, like, we mix that stuff in there

because you need that. Like, this, it's important to help people and be serious and get business done, but you have to live and have fun also. So, like, why not marry that? I think you should. How many of those Normandy shirts did you guys sell? Those were bangers. I tried to get one.

Did they sell out? They sold out. Yeah, they sold out. It's weird. Yeah. Yeah. You guys definitely shouldn't make an awesome t-shirt that could directly. support the cause like we're talking about like that would be bad business don't do that don't make

compelling designs that well actually do continue making compelling designs that nobody can get and do nothing with that's that's solid yeah yeah yeah yeah like the triple seven shirt yeah i don't don't what to say if you forward me this information i'll do what i did with the triple seven shirt and just start tagging people saying hey if you want one of these contact evan directly and he was just like fuck you and he made more of them yeah no we it's it's come about kind of of like by, I mean, Triple Seven really kind of showed me how you can effectively marry something people are engaged with and want to watch with, you know, philanthropy. And like you said, you have to do something crazy.

Like, you know. It's not crazy. I'd say compelling. Yeah, yeah, compelling. Something that like, oh, man, I want to see what happens. And you can show videos of a vet, like standing in a cemetery crying, you know. many times with like stoic music and like we've all seen that before like but we want to there's like eight foundations that that might be like the underlying message that they use so it just

confuses people at some point too yeah so like let's let's inspire people to help rather than like gilting them into helping you know what i mean like oh these these people are out doing these fucking amazing things in the name of this like i want to check that out so yeah i think that's the direction that we really want to take it is like like doing inspirational shit, but in order to get eyeballs on these things that are helping people. Yep.

I think that's the cool part of social media or the digital world that we live in. Like there's a lot of downside to unfettered access to limitless information, but the ability to reach almost anybody you want to on Earth, assuming they're not in China because they can't look at the same shit we do

or North Korea. Not that I think they would support the BRCC fund anyway, but you know it's... You never know. It's possible. That's the upset. to it, I think. You can connect with people you never would have met before. Yeah. That's what I've seen. It has to be managed though. Yeah. Otherwise, just fucking leisure. Yeah, I have a weird relationship with it. Like, uh, I have to, yeah, like, it's supposed to be a part of my job, but I like have to be reminded to like pick up my phone and like look at it and I'm like, that's a good thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'd rather hire and work with that person than the person who can't put their phone down. Yeah. Yeah. It's, uh, I think it's actually destroyed a lot of the interpersonal communication skills. A million percent. Younger people. I think we would probably be the last generation that grew up.

Actually, let me see. Michael, you're what, 23? Mm-hmm. How old were you when you got your first cell phone? 17. So he's, his generation is actually the last one that grew up with the split. Yeah. Yeah.

Anybody beyond that, they're so proper fucked. Yeah. Yeah. How they, they like, they can't talk. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I actually, I'm guilty of it a lot of times. See, like, I'll be talking to my mom.

She'll be like, what do you've been doing? I'm like, you don't know. Like, Look at my social media. Why have to go check my Facebook or my Instagram. Like, I've been telling you. My mom just watches your Instagram to see what I'm doing. I don't post what you do.

She's like, What he's not doing, the mother is putting up, you know, the untrained observer posts. It's fine. Some people notice. Some people don't.

Dude, man. Why you haven't been doing that? I've tried. Like, I could, it's, I thought you wanted to be an artist. There's not a lot of cool shit to take pictures of it. And so, like I say, every day. Bullshit.

You know. You can take a picture of the grain of this table and it can make it interesting. That's true. I have, I will admit, I've been slacking on that, and I knew you're going to call me out on it today. Yeah. And I see your camera sitting over on that shelf. Yeah. I noticed a small layer of dust on that. Q3.

Yeah. Yeah. Evan. It doesn't look like it's worth the upgrade, to be honest. The really big switches, it has the screen on the back. You can move it. But I don't really know if I like that. It's just a degree. Evan already buy it like nine. He does. He does. He probably gave one to his fucking seven-year-old child. I have no idea how old his kids are about that.

So, yeah, to me, that feature just added a layer of a lack of durability that I wasn't interested in. Oh, that hinge point? Yeah. The sensor wasn't like a massive upgrade. The pictures of that Lyca Q2 takes, holy fuck. Yeah. Have you seen that? You would know because you haven't been taking much recently.

That's like a point and shoot. Is this the one you've been telling people to get you for your birthday? My birthday's over. They got to wait until next year. Oh, the one you saw when we were at the Lika. store. Yeah, yeah, it looks really awesome. It's like a LICA you can put in your back pocket. Really? Yeah. Digital? Yeah. Huh. Yeah, it's awesome. I think for our employee bonus, which I can't get, because I'm not an employee at BRCC, it should be LICA's for everybody.

I'll let you two submit that up the chain and let me know how it goes. Yeah. I will not submit that because I want to feel elite by having a LICA and, you know, I don't want everyone having that ship. It is a power move. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm still just trying to master my, like, camera on my phone. Most people can take pictures better with that than they could have like. Yeah. Most of the time. Most of the time.

But I mean, I've caught some fucking bangers on that LICA. I have too. They're amazing. The one. The depth of the field on that thing is unbelievable. Did you see the picture that I took of the C-130 out of the bunker on Pointe Hawk? Yes. I mean, that thing is crazy.

Agreed. Yeah. Did you want to continue patting yourself on the back? Or did you, were you, were you searching for a couple? I was just trying to dig out of the hole that I haven't posted on my picture a day. What do you guys want to close with? What do we forget? What do we live out?

Where can people find you? Miss, I hate social media. I do have Instagram. It's like the only social media that I have. That laid back berserker? Yeah, just follow him. Orrin's daughter. Orn's dotter.

It's a Norwegian. Very Nordic. How's going to say? Yes. Norwegian. Yep. My last name is Bakken. And that would be what my last name would be in the olden days, which is my Norwegian heritage.

to close I don't know We'll be I think our next kind of adventures We're going down to De Land, Florida We're going to get

some jumps down there And then Flying at Denmark To do some stuff With the Danish Yeagers Get some kind of with them Do a hayho over there And

That's gonna be pretty amazing From a topography perspective Yeah It's gonna be rad So Yeah we're just Looking to find ways to, you know,

entertain and form and inspire our community and in doing so, hopefully help as many people as possible. Where would you direct people to, as far as on the Black Rifle ecosystem to follow what you got going on? Right now, just Black Rifles' social media pages, we've, you know...

They're terrible, though. I think right now... Are you going to do like a rotating carousel ad for coffee? Because that's all it was for years. I think... I think... Sucked dong. You know, I...

Well, I think what we're seeing right now in you know and you guys were talking about everybody's sick of social media unless you're like kind of a sociopath so right now is just looking for ways that it's a it's a few different problems right like a people are kind of sick of it and you can't hold people's attention spans be we are at the we are beholden to these platforms meta youtube all these other things and they're yeah what you pointed out to me today i didn't even realize they had changed the name of it yeah So it's, you know, I think in addition to us producing quality content to do all the things we want to do for our community, it's also looking for creative ways to make sure people can get their eyes on it that don't know, oh, okay, like the algorithm doesn't want me to see this shit.

I'm going to go search for it. So like us figuring out new ways to be sure that the people that want to support our community are able to get their eyeball. on it. So, you know, it's, for, for us, it's not just producing the content. It's, it's figuring out, you know, being a step ahead of the curve as far as how can people watch it. That isn't, again, beholden to these, these platforms. I like it. Let me know when you figure it out. Anything else? No, I don't think so. I appreciate your time. Yeah. See, she has the fuck out of it. Join Montana. Go back to sea falls and do what. Go fishing.

Ha ha ha.