Cleared Hot - Powered By BRCC - Full Auto Friday - 9/12/2025

Episode Date: September 12, 2025

Traditional Q and A to round out the week, answering only the most demanding questions facing our society, world, and likely species. I'm pretty sure they were actually that serious, but it sounds good. I did actually cover: -Am I an ambassador of the brands I wear (you, not me) -Supporting friends through low points in their lives -What would you do (me) if you saw abuse in public Enjoy   Today's Sponsors: Poncho: Go to https://ponchoutdoors.com/clearedhot for $10 off your first order David: Order a sample pack at https://Davidprotein.com  

Okay, got to red smoke. Oh, west of the smoke. Okay, Kathy, west of the smoke. I'm looking at danger close now. Come on, one minute, baby. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back. If you listened to last Friday's episode, which was not supposed to be an episode between Michael and I,

you know that we have now, not because I want to, but because I had been forced to, initiated the Michael Protocol for any and all recording. What does that mean? It means I probably should have been doing this the whole time. But Michael got me last week. I think I sat here.

I think he said it was 37 minutes. He rolled in. I heard him unlocking the door. I was going to involve him in the last question. So he walks over to his desk. And I could see the look on his face before he said anything. It just dropped. And we use a roadcaster to record the audio.

It goes through some other stuff. But it's the roadcaster. And he pulled down the two bars. on the one and two microphone. I'm sitting in front of the number one microphone. This is just how we remember him for the audio tracks. And one and two were down because he was doing a little bit of voice acting, which don't worry. I'm going to figure out a way to get a clip of this voice acting and we are, we're going to talk about it.

I'll probably play it hopefully without him knowing about it. I'll try to figure out a way to get it into the show and then we'll deconstruct. We'll do a review, if you will. So, yeah, that was 37 minutes of my life that I'm not going to get back. and whatever, frustrated for a few seconds, and then you just move on. What are you going to do with it? Can't control what happens to you in life,

but you're 100% responsible for what you do with it. And you can control the reaction you have. So instead, we did an awesome podcast for about two hours, and then I just had them stay afterwards, and we did some questions back and forth. But now Michael Protocol exists. What's this called? Double-checking to make sure the levers and buttons

are in the positions that they are supposed to be in, which, like I said, is probably what I should have been doing anyway. Whose fault was it? Well, based off the book, I'm going to start writing called Extremely Limited Ownership. Number one thing is try to pass on any responsibility to other people other than yourself. There are no bad leaders, only bad teams per my book. So it was Michael's fault. But the reality is we both know it was mine, or every, we both know. We all know it was mine because I should have double checked it and I didn't. So here we go. Today's episode is brought to you by Pancho, the makers of the ultimate outdoor performance shirt for men. You remember

the last time I did an ad read for them and I said I was going to wear the shirt? Well, guess what? I didn't know I was going to be doing this ad read today. And so I'm wearing a t-shirt. Failed again. But it's well known that I'm a jack wagon. Imagine, if you will, a shirt that feels like your favorite tea. It's built for the outdoors, but it still looks sharp enough for a dinner out that right there is the magic of poncho. These shirts are comfortable right out of the box. No additional steps necessary. If you run hot, there's a vented back that helps keep you cool, especially on those hot and humid days. We've been having a rash of those up here in Montana.

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If you've been looking for the perfect shirt, something breathable, that fits great, feels even better and stands out in a good way. Let's give Poncho a try. Go to poncho.com slash cleared hot for $10 off your first order. That is P-O-N-C-H-O outdoors.com slash cleared hot. for $10 off and free shipping. Go try one out. You won't regret it. Back to the show. Back to the questions, different ones than I was going to answer. I didn't get rid of those, but it feels weird saying or reading the same question again because I don't know if I could answer it in exactly the same way. The emphasis would be the same. The core points would be the same.

I don't know. I wanted to shake it up a bit. So let's get into it. Question one. Andy, I very much appreciate the podcast and would like to show my support by buying some merch. However, once I put on a cleared hot shirt, I feel like I become, to a small degree, a brand ambassador or representative of your podcast. As such, is there anything in particular you would like those who wear your merch to do or not to do while walking around as a tiny cleared hot billboard? Back in episode one, you stated you did not have a clear goal or end state for the podcast. Has this changed? Obviously, once we buy the merch from you, we have the glorious freedom to do with it, whatever. we like. But is there anything general or specific we should keep in mind while wearing a cleared hot shirt? I'm just trying to be a little clearer and a little hotter each day.

Thanks for making a podcast or a great podcast. I haven't actually thought about this a single time until I got this question. But first, I'll pull back the curtain for you a little bit and just talk about the mechanics of why the t-shirt selection for 2025 sucked. 100%. My fault was it intentional? Not really. I'm just not great at it. But before I get into this, let me say, let me say something here. I understand the value of money. And I cannot thank people enough, whether they buy a sticker or a t-shirt or some of the more expensive items that I've put up for sale. I know how important it can be those decisions between this is what I have and this is what I'm going to buy.

people may think that I am wealthy or make a ton of money from what I do. Oh, you have a coffee shop and there's always a bunch of people in there. You must be killing it. The podcast, you know, you're doing ads, so you're obviously making money off of that. You have a book that's going to be coming out in April. You do some public speaking. I'm not here to say that I'm living in poverty, but you want to pull back the curtain on the economics? Here you go.

I'm millions of dollars in debt. I didn't have the money. to build that coffee shop. So I found somebody willing to loan me the money. I have a 10-year payment, repayment program that I am working on to get through that. So, yeah, my net worth is probably negative seven figures. That's right. You're welcome.

A negative millionaire often talked about rarely heard. But that's the way the business goes. Could it turn into something that would be amazing? Of course it could. Am I making my dinner at night off of ramen noodles? No. what I'm trying to say is this. I understand how hard it can be to make money and therefore what it means when you're

choosing to support something like what I have built with the podcast on a soft good merchandise. Thank you is what I'm trying to say. I get it. I know how hard it can be to make a dollar. So I have nothing but immense and extreme appreciation for anybody who has ever supported me in any way. But I've never once thought about what I would want somebody to do. or not do when wearing the shirt.

Also, let's talk about the mechanics of why it suck for 2025, like I said. I write the check, or it's actually not a check I write. I wire the money up front to produce anything that I produce. And for people who may ask, I use a local guy named Alan. I won't give his last name out because I don't know if he wants to be doxed on the internet, but you can find him, 12 ounce profit. He has an amazing t-shirt factory here locally in Calispo. I don't have the vocabulary to describe the level.

of quality that he can produce, it exceeds orders of magnitude, what I need for podcast merchandise. But I write that up front. And, you know, in COVID, thinking about this question here, in COVID, there were people who were getting additional money from the government and they were sitting at home, listening to podcasts, and they had a little bit of discretionary income. When you buy blanks, the actual blank t-shirt with nothing printed on it, and I don't know the exact gateways where the price comes down. But buying one blank is going to cost you more than if you were to buy 50 blanks on a per item or a per blank scale. A hundred maybe less than 50, 200, 300, 400, 500. So you start getting to around 300 T-shirts. Now you need to describe

or talk about how you're going to cut that across the sizeways, whether it's extra, extra small all the way up to triple XL. Where are you going to put the vast majority? of those t-shirts. For me, what I have found, larges and excels sell the most, but the boundary sides of that, the extra-extra-smalls and the triple-xels, they're very vocal. And I'm doing the best I can. My point in this is, though, if you overloaded one of those,

which you end up looking at as t-shirts on a shelf, which is essentially money that you have spent on a shelf. And maybe you'll get the money back from that. Maybe not. So a lot of T-shirts were being purchased during COVID, and I was also at home with less to do, so I got a little bit more creative. and had a lot more offerings.

Jiu-Jitsu rash guards, the whole nine yards. The market has changed. DTC, direct-to-consumer. People are holding on tightly to their money right now, and I totally understand why, because I'm doing exactly the same thing. There's some uncertainty. People don't know which direction the wind's going to blow

on the flagpole going forward. And in general, that's a smart idea economically. Let's be intelligent with what we spend, because I'm here to tell you what you spend is equally as important, if not more important than what you make. You can be a millionaire and in debt. if you spend $1 million and $1 on top of that. So I am not good at deciding and determining what people like.

And on this, a few episodes ago, I solicited it for feedback, and I have to include this because it was fascinating to me. Got a variety of feedback on T-shirts, but resoundingly, the number one T-shirt concept broadly was a version of me or somebody else shooting a javelin missile, but coming out of the tube was javelin my dog, which, yes, he is named. after that missile tube and missile because those are my favorite things to shoot.

They're amazing. Can you hit a tank with them? Yeah. In the manual, does it say you can shoot it at a helicopter? Yes. Can you hit a dude with a PKM at two kilometers with that thing? Oh yeah, you really can. And you can do a surprise cockbag from top or right in the chest.

If you want to go direct attack or top attack. I'm not going to tell you how to live your life. Make the choice that best suits your personality. That's the shirt. that most people have asked for. Had I considered that shirt to a little bit of a degree before? Yeah. Did I really put any serious thought into it? No, not until I got that feedback. So at some point in time, probably in 2026, if I'm being honest, I'm going to try to make that shirt or a version of it. So that's an example, though, of something I need to do. I haven't done a lot this year because

I have T-shirts that are still sitting on the shelf. And it's tough to look at money that you have spent, realizing you may not get the return on investment for that. And that's not me whining. That's the reality of somebody who is directly in this loop of, okay, idea, wire delivered to you, sitting there, not selling as much as you wanted to. And it can be gnarly. But it is part of what it is. Now, for those of you who wear the shirts, here's what I'll say. And anybody who has followed this show knows this. I am not really one to tell people how to live their life. As long as you are not praying on minors, as long as there is consent involved in what you're doing. I don't really give a shit on how you live your life.

Now, I've been very clear about how I feel about things like pedophiles or people that prey upon minors or those that victimize others and how I feel when there's not consent present. That's well documented many times. My answer is always the same. So when you buy the shirt, please feel no obligation. to do or not do anything. I don't think I would like to see a picture of one of my shirts at like a Nazi rally,

you know, or I mean, I guess far extremes of both the left and the right. But also, that's an easy one if somebody were to ask about that. I'd be like, listen, they bought a T-shirt. It's free for them to do with what they want. What I really would want is for you to live your fullest, most expressive life. I appreciate the monetary support. literally allows me to pay the light bill associated with the studio suite. But I believe in people expressing their freedoms to their maximum extent. Whether or not I would like to see one of

these things on one of these fringe extreme events, like I said, on both the left and the right, doesn't really matter because once you get the shirt, the shirt is yours. People's ability to be free is way more important than how I I feel about what it is that they're doing. It is one of my core values and principles. So I love this question because I had never thought about it. And if it ever gets to a place where somebody asks me about, hey, a person was wearing this shirt and doing this, I can easily say, yeah, that's, I mean, it's their shirt.

They can do with it what they want. And if you're asking me what I feel about where they were at or what they were doing, easy answer. Because if somebody asked me a question, I'll answer it. They may not agree with the answer, but I'll tell them the truth. And in here, too, you know, episode one, I didn't have a clear goal or an end state for the podcast. Has this changed? I don't have an ed state. It's not as if there is, I'm trying to get to this and then I'll be done. But I think I have a clearer goal. Open and honest

conversations with people that interest me absent influence from outside of that conversation. One of the coolest things about the show is I have met so many people that I know I would have never met if I didn't do it and heard so many stories. I've learned so much and have gone down some rabbit holes. And I've had developed friendships with people still stay in contact to them to this day and interact with them offline, off the show all the time. So I've developed friends by meeting somebody as a stranger. I mean, the other desk or the other chairs right across from me.

Can't see it on camera. But meeting somebody the first time there, learning something, developing a friendship, personal, professional, whatever it may be. and that exists beyond that. I try not to view things through a political lens. I try not to select guests or topic based on necessarily what is going on in the world. There might be exceptions from if there's something like a breaking or evolving technology or something happens in the world and there's a tech expert.

I'm going to probably try to talk to them to get a better understanding of what is happening and why that particular tech was utilized. But when I say outside of influence from that conversation, I ask the questions that I'm interested in. people who watch the show only see the guests that I have seen yes to. There is a large volume of guests that I have said no to. And I'm not going to mention any of those names because it doesn't matter. But I'm here to tell you right now that listeners of the show would be shocked at some of those names on that list. And we'll leave it at that.

Why? I don't want to be defined or pigeonholed by another person. people's, ideologies, or beliefs. And there are some people out there that it is their entire identity and it is their entire thing. And I'm totally fine with that, but I get to measure my proximity to that. And to me, it is important to be able to be objective, to look at, I'll use political as an example, even though I truly do not try to live my life through a political lens. It is important to me to look to the left and look to the right and look to the middle, to look for similarities, for common ground, for understanding, which doesn't mean you're looking for

agreeance, but I do believe there is immense value in trying to understand how somebody arrives at one of their core beliefs. That does not mean you have to agree with them, but I think there is value in that. It can help you understand their actions, their motivations and everything associated with that. So I do my best to keep the bias out of it. Am I biased as a person? Of course. Do I do my best to keep my own bias out of the conversations? Yes. Am I perfect? Absolutely not. point to me at a human that is. If I step on my dick and I say something that is biased in that nature or one of my biases comes out, I'll address it. I have no problem addressing the shortcomings that I have. The list of those is way longer than the list of successes that I have. So I do my

best. But that's the goal. That's what I want the podcast to be, to continue to be. The end state, no idea. I'd like to do this as long as people are interested in listening. I hope you guys are learning as much about some of these topics as I am, because I am in real time thinking, listening and asking questions. I don't come into it with a sheet of questions in front of me. I just take them as they come, the guest as they come, and we just have conversations. Not that there's anything wrong with people who do that. I'm sure that there are people are. I can't give you an example of that. That's just not the path that I take. So if you support the show, sicker, whatever it may be. I had coffee mugs at one point in time,

sunglasses, a t-shirts, bags of coffee. Live your most full and expressive life. Please do a it whatever you want to do. And I can't thank those of you enough who have supported the show for the support. It's truly been life-changing. Question two, been listening to your podcast for a while and really appreciate the advice you give. Hopefully you can give me some wisdom or guidance for this one. Here's the current situation. My best friend is currently going through a divorce with his wife. Without getting into the details of the divorce, he is obviously completely lost. And I can tell he is falling into that dark place of suicidal ideations. He'll often call me at night to vent about everything and he just keeps saying how he doesn't know where to go from here. He doesn't see a way

forward and that he will always feel this way. I keep telling him that there is always a way forward and with time you will find the path again, but my words don't seem to be getting through. I completely understand that right now he can't think clearly because of the situation, but I just want him to be able to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I know you don't talk about your divorce other than it was maybe one of the hardest things you had to go through. So I'm asking what can I do to help him find hope again and what helped you or what helped get you through the tough time and experience of your own divorce. Man, it's a tough question. There's a lot in here.

There's a lot of layers to this particular. One thing jumps out though. I can tell he's falling into that dark place of suicidal ideations. How do you know that? And this to me is very important. Before I say anything else, I'm not here to give mental health advice. I'm not a counselor. I'm not a therapist.

None of those things. I'm going to talk about this a little bit, but this is through my own anecdotal personal experience in my own life, my own touch points, which counts for only that. So take this with a grain. Feel free to consult with a professional. Is this an assumption that you're making that he's having suicidal ideations or is he verbalizing these to you? If this is an assumption that you are making, do me a favor. Ask the hard question and ask him directly. Now, why do I say that?

Because people could definitely say right now listening to this, damn, that might be a little bit obtrusive. That's going to probably lead to a hard conversation. Yep. And you're totally right to both of those things. But it's important. Again, I've already clarified. I'm not an expert in any of this. I'm not a medical professional.

But here is what I've heard time and time and time again and having conversations with those types of people. There is a risk profile difference between those who are not talking about suicidal ideations and those that are. If your friend is talking about suicidal ideations or you ask him this question and his answer is yes. My recommendation to you would be this. Ask him have he has thought about the steps or process. that he would follow to follow through with those ideations. Again, that can be a tough question. But the reason it's important is, again, there is a different risk profile for those that say yes

and give you a detailed answer showing that they have absolutely thought their way through this process and those that haven't. It is my understanding, again, based off of conversations with professionals, that those that will tell you, yep, I'm having suicidal ideations. And yes, Yep, I have thought my way through exactly how I'm going to do this and maybe even if have started planning for it. They are at a way, way higher statistical level of risk. Now, statistics are interesting. We talk about stacks all the time.

They show up all the time usually to buttress arguments or to destroy arguments or try to crumble the authenticity of arguments. Here's the thing. They're valuable too. But let's say you're in Northern California and there's the red triangle. between, forget where it actually starts. Santa Cruz north to, I don't know, wherever you want to go. Wherever the Red Triangle begins northern Santa Cruz.

Great White Shark breeding ground. Pretty sure the odds of being bitten by a great white shark are about the same as being struck by lightning twice in the same day and winning the lottery. So the stats on that one are really in your favor. But if you're swimming along and a great white shark, the man in the gray wetsuit decides to come underneath you and highlight you against the surface. and come rocketing up and smash you in between his jaws. Reciting the statistics to that shark is not going to help you very much, right? Stats about getting bitten by a shark are really in your favor, and none of that matters if it actually happens.

So although I can appreciate the value of statistics for both buttressing a point or arguing against one, they're not the end-all be-all. And we can pull the stats away from this. You describe this person as your best friend. Would you rather have a hard conversation, a direct hard conversation about this, or receive a phone call and probably live the rest of your light, regretting that you didn't have that conversation? I can't answer that for you. So I'm going to push that back in your direction. So hopefully you hear this.

And again, this is just the start of my answer. That jumped off the page to me. Absolutely have the hard conversation. He'll often call me at night to vent about everything. That is good. Keep answering the phone. Venting, just stress relief. Having somebody that he can call is huge.

Because if you don't have that, you are going to feel alone and isolated and lost. So it's great that he keeps calling you. Keep answering the phone. Your job on those phone conversations is to listen more than to talk. If they stop, if the frequency decreases, that should be a warning sign for you. We've got a red flag.

Why did this happen? Proactively start reaching out, right? It's a good thing that this person trusts you and cares about you enough that he can call and try to unload everything that is going on in his life on top of you. Be there for that person. If it slows down, if it stops. Red flag. Does it mean catastrophes around the corner?

No. Figure out why it stopped, though. So he just keeps saying he doesn't know where to go from here and he doesn't see a way forward and that he will always feel this. this way. I understand exactly why he's saying those things. And I think there is a point in time in this particular journey speaking only about divorce, depending on how it goes. I have heard what would it be? What's the opposite of a horror story? A fairy tale. I have heard fairy tale stories of people who were just completely amicable and they went to a mediator one time and

48 hours later they're divorced. I don't think that's the norm. I think that's the anomaly. The other side of that is an entrenched battle where you got knives out on both sides, and it's an inch forward, two inches back, an inch forward, two inches back, while you're throwing grenades over each other's heads, and there's usually kids involved, and it's just the absolute worst. There are points in time in that where you're not going to know where to go from there, and that there isn't seem to be a way forward and that you feel like you're always going to feel like that. That's okay. Those feelings will pass.

He may not think that in this moment, and that's okay. I think there is a point in time where given enough time, and that is the key thing here, right? Nothing lasts forever, your best days or your worst days, unless you do something to make it permanent. Like we opened with this concern of suicidal ideations. The worst day you have ever had in your life, the lowest point you have ever been in your life, will get, better unless you do something to stop that that is permanent food for thought and i think we're supposed to have good and bad days if you just had this slightly elevating bumping line that only went up and up and up and it was success success success good result good result good result how would you ever be able to

appreciate that how would you ever have any semblance of how awesome life can be until you have a marvel superhero I'll just, gah, uppercuts you in the sack if you're a dude. I don't know. The version of that would be for ladies. You get the point. You need those uppercuts. You need the downswings to appreciate the ups. And if you have enough upswings in a ratio with the downs,

it can help you when you are down. You know that you can return back to a least baseline and that it is going to get better. I think that that is what life is about. It is about the ups and downs. I know people, well, and I say this, and maybe they don't believe it when they're saying this, what I was about to say was I know people think that there's this pursuit of life that it's only good things and only happiness. But again, I don't even know if they necessarily mean it when they say that.

I don't bind into that model at all. I actually think life is about struggling and suffering just so you can have those brief moments of like, man, this is awesome. Of course, there's always going to be somebody could throw an example. a black swan example of me of or a white elephant example of me where oh but look at this person like cool that might be a one-off how's that working out for your life is that scalable can is that repeatable across societies and large portions of people probably not so this episode is brought to you by david how many of you out there listening to this i'm going to put myself in this category are

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for the longer episodes. Davidproteen.com. Check it out. It's okay and normal that he feels that way. There's something at the end of this sentence though. I keep telling him that there is a way or always a way forward and that with time you will find the path again. He may not be capable of listening to what you're saying right now. But he hears you. And please never stop telling him that. There will be a point where it switches. And not only will he hear you saying those words,

he will listen to you. He will digest that. He will take it for action. And it will have an impact because he'll start making movement in that direction. And I mean, you surmised it perfectly, you know, micro steps are what are going to get you to the end of the longest journey. There is always a way forward for a lot of people. And this is, I find this a little bit more with personal and professional goals, whether it's losing weight or whatever professional goal you may have.

It's not a matter that they can't define the steps that they need to take. It's that sometimes those steps are so small that you can't even notice your motion towards them. So you get super frustrated, overwhelmed. you give up. There were days in my own personal divorce process where I would lay in bed and I felt like the force of gravity had multiplied by 10x, like an actual physical weight pushing you down into the mattress. And obviously there wasn't anything that was like that. But that is what it felt like for me to start my day because I knew what that day may entail. A micro step, a micro victory in that moment might be having your feet touch the floor.

And then from there, you know, let's shuffle to the bathroom. Maybe take a piss unless you just want to be a savage and piss in your bed, which is not great for long term. Brush your teeth. And then maybe decide, maybe have some calories, maybe some water, maybe some coffee. Micro steps. What can I actually do next that is at least going to build me momentum that might not be noticeable by anybody outside of myself or maybe not even noticeable by myself that can get me

towards a goal that I can't even see in the moment. I am in so deep in this tunnel and have been so deep in this tunnel for so long that there's not light on either end of it. How do you get to the end of that? You never give up. Even if at each step is an inch. If you give it enough time, you will see the light. And then maybe you could turn an inch into half a foot. And then the half a foot becomes a foot at a time. And then maybe you could increase the cadence of your step. And then before you know it, you're jogging. And then before you know it, you're running. And the next thing you know, sunlight is raining down on top of you. That sounds great. Right. Oh, yeah. I'll just do that. Just because you have that thought process

and you can break it down into sequential steps like that, it doesn't make it any easier. It's practiced. It's eating a lot of uncomfortableness. It's doing things that you know that you don't want to do. that you have to do to get towards your personal and professional goals. On those days where I felt like I could not get out of bed, the only thing I would think about at that moment is swinging my feet off the mattress. And then I would figure the rest of it out from there. The next step of what I described of like shuffling to the bathroom and taking a piss and brushing your teeth, that was the strategy I used.

What was I going to do after that? I don't know. I didn't think about it. I was thinking about getting to the bathroom first, doing what I needed to do in there. And then don't worry. The rest of the world's waiting for you. the rest of your life's waiting for you. Figure it out, a microstep at a time.

Never stop telling your friend that. He will listen to you at some point. So what else? That's the best advice I have for you. Be there. Have the hard conversations. Listen. Never stop being supportive.

Pay attention if he reduces the volume of communication. Doesn't have to be like, oh, the sky is falling, but just pay attention to it. and do everything he can to support him. I assure you he may not even recognize in this moment how much he needs and appreciates the support you're giving to him, but he will at some point. And I think your friendship will grow closer because of that. God forbid the same.

I know nothing about you or your situation. God forbid, you know, the same word happened to you. You have somebody in your corner that's never going anywhere. And you'll need them based up. my own personal experience. Question three. That's probably be my last one for today because I've been running my mouth. People are probably tired of listening to it.

Andy, I had an encounter the other day that left me with a bad taste in my mouth, and I thought I'd send it to you to see your thoughts. I drive a local route delivering to restaurants, and I found myself rolling up on a man grabbing what I assumed to be his wife based off of rings, which I hope you mean on fingers, not Hulu Hoops, and all but dragging her to a car as I turned the corner. I got out, approached them, and asked what was going on, and if she needed help. He was so angry he didn't see me until I was all but on top of them.

He immediately stopped, smiled and said, no, we're good. I replied with, fuck you. I am talking to her. He got mad and he stormed off. And even though I know all caps is what I'm looking at, she's not okay. She responded with in broken English. I'm okay. please don't call the police or hurt him. I'm okay. Growing up with a police dad, I've heard this

too many times. Abuse and when confronted, the person being abused would rather take it than the abuser getting caught. Any experience, question mark. And how would you handle it? Do you call the police for them just to be gone and or deny it? Or do you just move on? It's tough for me to just move on, but I also understand you cannot help someone that doesn't want to be helped. Thank you in advance. Always love your opinion on these things. This is a gnarly question. I mean, there's a lot of ways that you can look at this.

I will answer this from the perspective of what I personally would do. But before I do that, let me be really, really, really clear. I am not advocating that anybody take the actions that I may or may not take. I am not trying to write out for somebody a checklist that they should follow if they were into counter a situation like this. I am not an expert on the law. And I, as somebody, and I'm going to answer this question honestly as to what I would do, I am willing to absorb the legal consequences and ramifications of my actions. But I would never advise somebody to do anything, to say anything without considering. those things. So I will answer this based off of who I am and what I believe. But please do not consider

this to be a recipe or a checklist or advice on how you should anybody respond in a situation like this. You need to think about this for yourself and consider the potential complications for yourself, physically, legally, all of the above. Okay. Let's talk about domestic violence here for a second. I am very good friends with some law enforcement officers. And I would love to hear in the comments if law enforcement writ large across the nation has this experience because this to me is stomach turning and sickening because it breaks my heart. Repeat customers. A call for domestic violence and clear injury. Pretty cut and dry as to who was on the receiving end of the abuse and who was the abuser.

An arrest is made. Charges are dropped. Another call later on. Same two people involved. Same address. But an escalation of the level of violence. Charges pressed. Arrest made.

Charges dropped. And again and again and again. This is one of the... the most common stories that I hear from local law enforcement. And I suspect that this is the same almost everywhere that law enforcement encounters these type of situations. And so I talk with them. What's interesting, and I don't know if the person being abused understands this, whatever level of abuse this starts with, whatever you tolerate or whatever happens, if you stay in that situation. Let's say there's a separation, but these two people come back together.

The level of violence and abuse never goes down. Whatever it was before, boom, new baseline standard. Then it's an escalation. And it's a Jacob's ladder of escalation to what sometimes terminates in one person killing the other. That pattern I have had described to me so many times by law enforcement officers. And it breaks my heart for the person being abused. And I cannot fathom the difficulty of the law enforcement officer having to see this cycle over and over and over again. They're going to these situations because they're being called to go there.

And they are literally seeing a merry go round, go round and round and round. And nobody can tell the future. And I just answered in another, this previous question where we were talking about statistics, you know, they are real. but, you know, it can be used to, you know, buttress or destroy or argue against an argument. The statistics on this one point in a pretty clear insignificant direction. Why does that person stay? I don't have the answer for that.

That is an answer that somebody needs to talk with a professional about who understands why these people do these things. And that's what I blame by do these things is abuse and then oftentimes. will either make excuses for the abuser or deny that the abuse even existed. And that's like even in the middle or the later ends of this Jacob ladder of escalation of violence and abuse towards them. I don't understand it. So I know it exists and I know it's real though. And it's freaking horrendous.

Please for the LEOs out there, share with me your experiences in the comments on this one. Because I don't think most people understand how press. this is. And it's an assumption on my part that it is this prevalent. I don't know why it'd be different anywhere else in the U.S. which actually, I'm going to say the world because abusers, I, oh, God, I hate bullies and I hate abusers, which is going to lead me to, now I'll answer your question as to how I would deal with this. Okay. First and foremost, I don't like fighting. I like fighting my friends. I like doing jiu-jitsu. I like firearms.

I am still competent and current with firearms. I am new to the grappling world. I feel like I can hold my own. I'm not an expert. I'm not a coach by any degree. But violence hurts. And you can win a fight and still go to the hospital. You can win a fight and still end up in court

and have personal and professional liability associate that. You might write a big old check depending on what happens. So there's consequences. Two, choosing to participate in violence. I avoid it at all costs, but I hate abusers. And I only have one situation that I've talked about on the podcast briefly. And I'll leave, because I want to focus on this question, I'll leave most of the details out. I was at a restaurant.

There were two very drunk individuals that I believe were a couple. There was a child involved. They were trying to get into a vehicle and drive away. There were other, specifically somebody at the restaurant that we were at that was trying to stop them. I interjected myself into the situation because in that moment, those two adults have a choice. That kid didn't have a choice at all. Now, was the thought process given alcohol as involvement skewed for those adults? 100%.

But I'm not going to allow somebody like that to put an innocent child at risk. So I got involved. There was a little bit of like super light level grappling in the parking lot. I wish I had been training jiu-jitsu at that point. There was handcuffs. There was the nylon sack of justice, which I don't know what you have to do to get put into that particular sack. But there was a lot of people putting that person in that sack. And then the back of the cop car.

And I don't know if I've ever heard somebody scream that long for that period of time at that decibel level. I feel like they should have just rolled up the window earlier. But it was really nice when they drove away. But it was like screaming that slowly trailed off into the distance, which has nothing to do with the answer to this question. But that's it. Why did I get involved in that situation? I was there having dinner with my family all three of my kids. Well, for one, my kids are going to see me do the right thing.

And two, that was the right thing to do. And I looked around in that restaurant at everybody else who saw what was going on and were such ferocious cunts that they were unwilling to stand up and do something that that's probably overly harsh. Most people don't know what to do. Stress, violence, and aggression makes a lot of people really. uncomfortable. And there's a degree that it makes me uncomfortable too. But I got a little bit more experience in that environment from a firearm perspective, right? Which is not directly applicable to this,

but there's no way I'm letting that happen in front of me. So I very, very lightly got involved. I was not by any means a key linchpin in what happened there. Talked to the cops, did the whole police report thing, came back. We got a free dessert, moved on with our day. Okay. So that's like, that's my exposure to something like this. Now, legitimately. I'm going to answer this question if I was by myself. Not that the answer would necessarily change if my wife was there other than I might have my wife talk to the woman and I would probably make sure that the man did not approach her again until the cops came. But let's just assume it's me. I come around the corner. I watch somebody dragging a significant other or a woman

into a vehicle. I would also approach them in the same manner that you did. I don't necessarily know if I would call 911 first, but that's going to be one of the first things that I'm going to do. because what you definitely witnessed at a very minimum was a violent act, and it certainly seems like we have two parties here. We have abuser and we have a victim. I've already talked about why somebody would say, please don't call the police, please don't hurt him, I'm okay. This goes back into that cycle that I don't understand,

but doesn't seem to be uncommon. So I'm going to leave that piece of it alone, other than to say that doesn't surprise me that she said that. I would approach the person as well, cautiously. I would also talk to the woman just as you did. The fact that this person immediately stopped smiled and said, no, that we're good, this drastic change in behavior is very telling to me. Abusers don't like being in the spotlight. And again, this is just my personal experience.

I don't have a massive amount of experience with this. They like abusing people that they think they can, but they don't like being seen doing it, which is why you have this drastic change in behavior, right? Oh, no, no, no, we're totally fine. A total misunderstanding. because what they thought they were doing was in private and now they realize it's in public. And that's also, again, why I think it's super important for people to have the balls to walk up and at least say, hey, what's going on or are you okay? These people need to know that they are seen. And that's why I would also call 911.

I don't want to waste a police officer's time. And maybe this is an instance where the woman's going to tell the cop the same thing and the guy's going to be able to explain it. But you know what? At least there's a record of that. interaction. So, and maybe there hasn't been a breadcrumb trail established at this point, but now there is, now there is a legitimate law enforcement contact record of this. And I don't know what paperwork is required, but I bet you there's body camera that's going to live on. I don't know if they have to report everything that they encounter. That's never been a cop, so I don't know.

But at least it's official somewhere. And that dude is now talking to a cop, probably for the first time in association with this person. I want that person to know that they are seen. Because people like this who want to operate in the shadows, fuck you. Take the spotlight and put it on the cockroach. And then when it scurries around, keep it on the cockroach. And again, I am asking, am I answering this into why I would do the things that I would do, not giving it an advice or recipe to anybody else. Again, let me be clear. So I would call the cops. I would not let them leave. If the man tried to get into the car, I don't know how far I would push it, but I would maneuver to the driver's door. You said he, you know, huffed off. What I would do if I saw him coming

back out is I would probably stand in between him and the driver's door. I might even put my butt up against it. And he can have a problem with that if he wants to and he can escalate that if he wants to. But this is a level, again, where I am comfortable with the actions that I'm taking and I'm willing to accept the legal ramifications of that. Am I going to hit this person first? Am I going to take him down to the ground? No. If that person were to take an action, a violent action towards me, would I respond to that accordingly and proportionally? Yes, I would. And again, not advocating for violence because you need to understand the personal and professional potential consequences of that, but I am comfortable with myself in that environment. It is important enough to me to stand in

between a victim and an abuser to potentially accept that level of risk. Hopefully, I wouldn't get to that point. At a very minimum, I just want the police involved. I'm not trying to be out there with a superhero cape on, but I believe in doing the right thing, even in the moments where it's the hardest to do. And I constantly ask myself questions like this. If that were my daughter in that situation, what would I hope and pray that somebody else? would do, that they would advocate for her, that they would give her the opportunity to say something if she felt that she could to stand in between the victim and the abuser. And I'm not saying you are a vigilante. Call for a higher level of care immediately. Maybe do so as you're walking up.

Maybe have it on speakerphone with 911 as you're doing the initial approach to this person. I don't know if that's a great idea because then the dispatcher might have to be trying to figure out what's going on, but get that done early because I don't want people to be a vigilante. We pay people with our tax dollars to do exactly this. Get them involved. Abusers don't like it. Will it change their long-term behavior? I don't know.

I don't have any data on that. I'd like to hope so, but they have to know that they are seen. So I would do exactly what you did, is my answer. And in that situation, a lot of how it would go for me is in how that guy responded. But there are telling things, like dragging somebody to a car, stuffing them in a car. And there's examples of this stuff on YouTube. And it's really interesting. All of them have that drastic shift in behavior when they are confronted.

Oh, no, no. Oh, I can't believe you saw it in that way. No, we're totally fine. This is, no, no, nothing's going on here. Telling you these abusers, they want the shadows. They don't want the spotlight. That's what the 911 call is to me. A high level of care that actually has legal authorities.

They can stand professionally in between that victim and abuser. It's a record of that contact. And at the very least, it can be the start of the breadcrumb trail. So I think what you did is awesome. That's how I would legitimately handle it. I don't care if they deny it because they can deny it to a cop who's right in a report. I would not just move on. I wouldn't be able to.

I haven't been in a situation like that since that restaurant. But I mean, I remember before making the decision to get involved because I was sitting at a booth that was by the bathroom. they walk past us. And I was sitting there. And before anything, I was looking around. I'm like, wow, is anybody going to do anything about this? Because I'm going to, regardless if they are or not. And then when they reemerged, I'm looking at my own kids and thinking,

how can I ever tell them that they need to do the right thing if I'm not willing to do it myself right here in front of them? So that's what I did. That's all I have for this Friday. See you all on Monday. Later.