Cleared Hot - Powered By BRCC - Navigate, Innovate, Elevate - Entrepreneurship and the Great Outdoors with Stephen Turner

Episode Date: February 5, 2024

Stephen Turner's life story embodies the spirit of true entrepreneurship, adventure, and community engagement. Stephen founded, owns, and operates Brother's Construction Inc. in Polson, Montana, and shares his insights into the world of entrepreneurship, and evolving business models as the world around us shifts, especially during the challenging times of COVID-19. In addition to his construction experience, Stephen has nearly three decades of flying as a licensed commercial pilot, offering a rare glimpse into the aviation world, including time spent as a pilot for the Montana Federal Reserve. Outside of his aviation career, Stephen has been a hunting guide in the breathtaking landscapes of Montana for over 27 years. Come along on a journey through the highs and lows of his multifaceted life. Whether you're an aspiring entrepreneur, an aviation enthusiast, an outdoor lover, or someone who cherishes community involvement, this episode has something for you. The Speed of War Comic Series: https://www.thespeedofwar.com/ Check out the newest Cleared Hot Gear here: https://shop.clearedhotpodcast.com/  

Well, welcome back, everybody. It's Monday, so you know we're back with a new episode. Two things before I get started. The first one, if you're into comics, there is a Comic-Con in Atlanta this Friday, the Friday of this week, the Monday that this comes out. I will be there at the Speed of War booth signing comics, if that's your thing. If it's not, then disregard everything that I just said. Not that big of a deal. The second thing, and the one that I'm always going to go back to is what makes this podcast possible. That's right. It's Black Rifle Coffee, and let's go to their website right now. Same two things as last week, actually. The Siege at Kaysan. I can't even describe the environment that these individuals worked in. Unbelievable. You need to go to the website or just search for it on YouTube. And then the coffee club. The convenience of this is actually unbelievable.

Ground coffee, whole bean coffee, whatever kind of coffee you want, delivered to your doorstep or your work, or wherever it may be, at the frequency you want it to be there and the volume that you want on the timing that you want. I mean, quite convenient. And the rest of the website, take your time and explore. Look at all the roasts from light to dark. Look at the apparel and gear. Look at the coffee bundles and coffee samplers. And I actually start people there if they have gift ideas for other people, a holiday and anniversary, whatever it may be. The coffee samplers are really cool one because it gives you a kind of a wide selection, smaller bags. And, you know, if they don't like it, Not that big of a deal.

But go to black rifle coffee.com, check out what they have to offer. It's an amazing brand that was created, founded, and run by amazing people. And I couldn't be more proud that they are the sponsor of the podcast. And that's it on the old business side of the house. My guest today is Stephen Turner. And I love conversations like this. People reach out to me all the time. Why don't you have a normal everyday person on the podcast?

And I don't know why I just made that tone of voice because I'm implying that on the emails that I get, which is a perfect example of why the written word maybe is not the best way to communicate. But I'm a normal person. I'm surrounded by normal people. There's not some crazy bar that someone has to meet to come on the podcast to have a conversation. I'll talk to anybody about anything, as long as I find it to be remotely interesting or I think that there's something that I can learn, which pretty much qualifies everyone. So Stephen had a friend to reach out to me. He did not reach out to me himself. and it's always funny to hear how friends describe their friends versus that friend describing themselves.

So I asked Stephen to write me up a bio. And, you know, he is a Montana man's man. Let's put it to you like that. In his daylight hours. Actually, probably nighttime hours as well. He's the owner of Brothers Construction, which is located in Pulse in Montana, for those of you not familiar with the geography of Montana. That is the south end of Flathead Lake. you want to talk about a wild industry.

He's also been a commercial pilot for nearly 30 years. And part of that time he was flying for the Montana State Treasury, which I didn't even know was a thing. And we got into some aviation stories for sure. He's been a hunting guy for the last 27 years. Family, friends, the things that he holds most near and dear to his heart, graduated with degrees in business management and human resources from Eastern Washington University. and I love sitting down with him. I don't know if I could say that there was a direction that the conversation went because we took it wherever it wanted to go.

And that's the coolest thing about hosting a podcast. Episode 32 with Stephen Turner. Hope you enjoy it. Close now. Oh, man. First podcast? Yes. Yeah. Yeah, by all means.

Do you listen to podcasts? Well, since about the maybe two weeks ago, yeah. Okay, when your friend, and I always get, for people who don't like their name out there, you can use his name if you want, but your friend who reached out and suggested you as a guest. Correct. That's when your journey into podcasting began? Yes, I did. I'm not going to lie. Yeah. I think that's kind of awesome, to be honest.

I was on a podcast as well before I had ever listened to one. I didn't even actually understand what the medium was. Okay. And then if you can add to that, I'd never thought in a million years I would actually start one. And here we are, I think, seven years later. Yeah, it's pretty impressive. It's not, really. What it is is a testament that is, even if you're dumb, if you keep going, you can figure things out.

That is true. Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree with that. All right. Fair enough. No, I think after looking you up, because I had to figure out what the hell was going on, to be honest. Yeah.

My buddy, Johnny. At first I thought he knew you. And I was like, oh, well, this would be pretty cool. He knows me from the, and this is actually a weird one. I'll run into people. They know so much about me. Right. And I don't know anything about them.

So he's not wrong in saying that he knows me, but it's a very disproportionately weighted relationship. And that just is what it is. Yeah, I can see that. Absolutely. It's a little weird. Yeah, when he said it to me, he said, well, you know, I asked this guy if you could be on his podcast. And I was like, what? And then I probably had a Scotch or two.

And I was like, yeah, sure, what the hell? That's what I'm talking about. Yeah. I said, I'll do it. Actually, my daughter was with me when I was reading the text from John. And then obviously you emailed me. The funny part is, I don't even email. So John's like, you need to watch your email.

Like, you're against email? No. Okay. I just... You're not worried that the government is microchipping your emails or something like that? We're just trying to gauge you here. Okay. No.

Very simple-minded. I like things nice and easy. Yeah. And just kind of laid out in front of me. All right. So... The part of his email that piqued my attention and I knew we had to sit down was when he was saying that you were a pilot for the Montana Federal Reserve.

Yes. Yes. What is the Montana Federal Reserve? So before everything got transferred through the World Wide Web and everything else, there were guys like me that were flying bank checks and money all across the state. Only inside of Montana, not crossing state lines? I never crossed the state lines, no. Okay. So it's an interesting story of how it even came about.

That is what we are here for. Okay. I wasn't sure what we were going off of to have me here. We'll start there, and Michael can tell you this. I have no idea where it's going beyond that. Perfect. Perfect. So, yeah, in all honesty, I looked you up.

Let's start there again real quick. You know, I looked at all the names that have been sitting here or wherever you guys have been. Most of them are here. And I said, John, what the hell did you get me into? And he said, no, just be yourself. You're cool. I was like, I don't know if I'm that cool. So anyways, I had to get that out there because it's been worrying me this whole two week.

I was like, well, those could go either way. I have found that most people, well, I don't have a architecture for what I want the podcast to be. It wasn't my idea to start it. I wish I could claim that I had come up with the name. I didn't. I didn't buy the first equipment, a sponsor that I was working with did that. And I think a lot of people would say that it's maybe more of like a military-oriented podcast. And that's not by design.

I spent a good portion of some formative years of my life in the military. And I have a lot of friends from that world and even post-military. You know, two of my closest friends, Mike Glover, who owns Fieldcraft Survival down in Provo. And then Evan Hafer, who owns Black Rifle Coffee down in Salt Lake City. it's I wish I could say that I don't gravitate towards those particular types of people, but we have so much in common that a lot of my close friends are in that world. So I end up, I think, I have never laid it out and written out like X number of military guests versus other ones.

So I think a lot of people, and they wouldn't be wrong to say maybe it's military-centric, but I am fascinated by other people's experiences and journey or how they got to work. wherever they are in life. And sometimes people will email me and say, well, can you just sit down and have a conversation with people that are normal? I'm like, I am normal motherfucker. Like, I look at myself in the mirror and I'm like, God, you suck. Like, you got to be careful.

And I tell people to be careful with the way that they speak to themselves. But man, if I had a voice recording of the way that I speak to myself sometimes in the mirror, it's rough. I have to be on yourself. There's a point, though. You know? But when Johnny reached out, you know, I can give you the wave tops. Oh, did you ever see the initial email that he sent me?

No. Okay. Perfect. Now, he pretty early on was the pilot for the Montana Federal Reserve, but talking about, you know, a construction company. You've lived in Montana for a long time. Described you as an entrepreneur and then, of course, an elk guide, which. Yes. Questions.

And we're going to be broad about that because we're not. Absolutely. We're not taking people to the honey hole. No, no, fire away, fire away. All of those things, like all those are fascinating to me. And the person behind all those things, like, I could sit and, I mean, honestly, I think I could sit and talk with anybody at this point. Yeah, after listening and watching your shows, absolutely, I totally agree with that. After a couple hundred episodes, yeah.

Hopefully, it comes across correctly, but I'm just, I have a lot of interest and fascination in other people and in their journeys. life is a journey and that's what it's about. It's a more exciting journey for some than it is for others. That is true. Yeah. So, Montana Federal Reserve, first off, if you were a pilot for them, I feel like you were an aviator before. So how did you find your way into aviation? So growing up in high school as a complete dipshit, let's just get that right out there.

As an adult male, though, is that not your role in responsibility at that age? Absolutely. Michael, were you a dipshit in high school? I was pretty even I feel like you were probably like a class president wearing like button down shirts I was class clown actually There's no way

There is a way You're not funny Not to you because you're old That comparatively yes But I understand humor at a certain You were not class clown Were you voted that or are you just saying that you were I was voted that

Do you have any proof I could grab my, I don't even know if I have my yearbook anymore actually, but. I just met you and I kind of find that hard to believe too. Yeah. Really? For sure. He makes stuff up all the time.

Yeah. I feel like you were wearing a suit and tie and like fundraising for it. Exactly. If I had the presentation, I would dress up nice. Are you serious? Yeah. I don't even know how you are anymore. God.

All right. We were both dipsets. Yes. High school for me, you know what my issue was in high school? I wasn't interested. And that's in me saying that is such an excuse because I have a 20-year-old son, an 18-year-old son, and a 15-year-old daughter. And they also are not interested in high school. The difference between me and them, and I don't say this with any level of judgment in comparison to what they view the world and what they want to do, I wasn't interested because I knew exactly what I wanted to do after high school.

They're not interested because they just don't like high school. And I was the opposite. I didn't know what I wanted to do. Yeah. My father, who was for education, expected us boys to go to college, and I did not want to go. How many brothers and sisters?

I've got two brothers and one sister, all older. Did you go to high school in Montana? Went to Bozeman. Okay. Grew up in Bozeman. Before it became Los Angeles East? Correct. Yes, it used to be great.

Now I'll bite my tongue on that, But so I grew up in Bozeman there, and my dad offered me, he said, how about you go to flight school? And I thought, hell, why not? Let's try it. Okay. So I went to flight school in Colorado Springs at a school that was called Emory Aviation at the time they're no longer around. Did they turn into Emory Riddle? No, two different ones. So it took about just over a year.

I completed it all the way through commercial. Okay. I know exactly what you're talking about. I have a pilot's license as well. I flew for a good period of time. And I remember getting magazine. There's a bunch of schools like this, like ATP down in Florida. If you give us $75,000, we'll get you into the right seat of a commercial airline.

And what would they mean by that is a regional jet where you're considering suck starting a six-shooter or going to work that day. Yes, exactly. But I know what you're talking about. They pipeline you through. It's like private, multi-instrument, commercial. Just will just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Okay. Yep.

So. But you come out of that pretty damn qualifier. I mean, that's a... You do. Yeah. And, you know, back then, this was, uh, 96, 95, 96, but nobody was hiring. And so I did have the opportunity to go ahead and become a flight instructor and earn, they offered me a job there and I told them, no, I wanted to come back to Montana.

So I think it was close to hunting season. Fair. So it came back, worked, um, construction, running equipment, doing whatever I could. just living life, having fun. Ended up going to MSU for a couple semesters, and finally they asked me to leave. And back to that whole school. Because your grades were too good.

Correct. In my mind, that were great. My son is currently applying to MSU. Good luck. For the reason that I think most young men do anything, because that's where his girlfriend's going to go. Oh. That'll get him.

hilarious he is so declarative at the age of 18 and I've said this many times my son is a walking Dunning Kruger curve he thinks he is a fucking expert at everything and his knowledge and experience base is pretty low so I went to him with him to the financial aid office he's getting ready to do his first semester he actually starts his first semester of community college tomorrow I'm so happy for the kid good for him research at all signed up on his own, picked his class schedule, picked the credits, went in there, is researching all sorts of financial aid, educational benefits that I can pass off to him. So we go in there to talk to the financial aid woman.

And everything was a declarative statement. I'll be going to MSU in July. Once I am accepted there, I will be living in the barracks. And I'm just, my chair, I just slowly start creeping over and I was looking at him. And as we left, he's like, you know how, dad, how do you think that meeting went? I think it went well. But you might want to back off a touch on the declarative statements. I like where your head's at.

Right. But what if you don't get in? Why would I not get in? You're right, you're actually probably the only person applying for MSU. But at that age, you know everything. And it's a golden carpet and you're just walking down it. Yeah, he's on a gravy train with biscuit wheels in his own mind for sure. Well, the good news is,

At least he has a plan. He has a plan. Good for him. He is, you know, I look at him and I look at myself. Had I gone to college, let's say we lived in Montana. I grew up, don't hold this against me. As most Montanans do. California, but honestly, though, we should tell.

First thing that popped up. Here's the thing, though. And this is the issue I have locally. Every issue that happens in Calispell, there's a wild Facebook page. Are you part of the, what is it, Flathead 411. Are you part of this group, Michael? Do you even have Facebook or is that a boomer thing? Yeah, I don't have Facebook. Yeah, neither do I.

Okay. Michael, nice work. Neither of you are missing anything. I appreciate that. That is called Flathead 411. And I'm not actually sure what the purpose of the page is. I'm coming to the conclusion it's the bitch about Californians, though, because they'll say, oh, car accident at the intersection of the bypass in the 93. first comment,

fucking California. Like zero. Nobody has any interest. Like, hey, is everybody okay? God damn, Californians. Here's the thing, though. Here's my thoughts. I grew up in California.

Born and raised in Santa Cruz, which is a haven of liberalism. And I don't have any issue with that. My personal belief is people should be able to believe what you want to believe, live your life. But don't force me to interface with your beliefs or life if I don't want to.

Be happy. It's so far left that it ends up on the right, but it's an incredible bubble of liberalism. And California politics are what they are. California taxes are what they are. So just do some research on that. The people who don't like those things choose to leave. So do we need to be concerned about the people who are looking for something different than what California has to offer? Or should we be worried about the people who are leaving California to try to make money?

Montana, more like California. And I don't think there are many of those because they like where they live. If you like California and the politics and the weather and the geography, you don't move to Montana. You wouldn't think they would, but they still do. Here's the one thing. They don't move here. The ones who have what I will describe as a level of wealth that allows them to be in multiple places, those are the ones that they will visit and they want to bring their politics with them.

And again, I'm fine with people having whatever politics they want. Those are the ones, though, that I think try to move the needle. Whereas the other ones, if you look at COVID and the number of people who moved into California, a lot of them were from California. They weren't coming here because they wanted to have the lockdowns that California had. They were coming here because they wanted to have the freedoms that Montana was providing and the ability to kind of make the choice about your life that you want to. I'm not worried about those people.

The ones who come here on their private jets, a little bit more worried about those people. Yeah, I would agree. I think the one thing right now, though, is California's getting a little bit of a break because all these sons of bitches from Texas. Yeah? Good old Tejas.

Yeah. So it's pretty comical because we do kind of, you know, look at license plates and see who's around, but it seems like there's more Texans now than we've ever seen. Which is a little bit interesting, because most, not, I can't say most. I have no data to support that. A lot of people I know who did want to go from California,

but didn't want to have the seasonal swings of cold temperature, even though they were about to load up some hot temperatures. Texas was one of the places that they looked. So I wonder if the people moving from Texas up here are those that are moving again, or are they being, in their own mind at least, displaced from those that are moving from California. I'd be interested to see how that played itself out.

Yeah, I would agree on that. It's just, it's interesting. You know, growing up in Montana, I pretty much lived here my whole life, except for a few years here and they're flying for other companies. We've always just thought it was the Californians, but now looking around, I mean, California, Texas, pretty much every state is represented. It's just, like you said, it's who is actually going to stay.

Come and visit, great, please. Like right now would be a great time. Spend your money. Come visit now, if you're thinking. thinking about moving. Yes. Actually, come visit two for the last three days. Yes.

It was negative 33, negative 22, and I believe when we had the brisk walk where my ears almost froze, it's like negative 15 outside. Yeah, it's chilly. It's just chilly. If you're going to visit a place you might live, though, if you're seriously considering moving, that would probably be the time to go check it out. Yeah. And I truly don't mind this weather when it's hunting season.

I would mind it if it was this cold. Skiing season, come on. Let's get some big snow and have some good, you know, good conditions. It's a tough year. It is low tide. Yes. Like I was telling you, my wife went snowboarding, and she said at the summit of the White Fish Mountain Resort, getting ready to go off the backside, she looked down and she could see gravel mixed in with the snow. Yeah.

That is a low tide year. That's going to be a very long hot summer. Yeah. Smoky. It is. Another point, though, a lot of people from out of state don't like the smoke, so they do end up leaving. Does anybody like smoke? I don't think so.

I don't think so either. It gets old. Yeah. All right, back to your aviation career. So you have your licenses. You want to come back to Montana. Yeah, so I got to remember where I was living. But at the time, this is the crazy story.

I went to flight school with a gentleman from Montana who's been a great friend of mine, and we have a mutual friend, he'll come to this story later. He calls me and he says, hey, Turner, one of these guys' his pilot just crashed up here in Calispell. They're looking for a pilot and they only hire Montana boys. I was living out and spoke in. And so I actually called this company. They said, yeah, come over for an interview. All right. So I was still, hour-wise, still pretty young, just kind of getting it together. So the company was out of Helena. went and interviewed, two guys from Montana owned the company, and they said, yeah, absolutely. I'd love to have you.

So different parts of that job included there were some mail runs, the Federal Reserve contract, and then some charter work. Okay. And they also held the contract for the VA from Helena to Denver. Like moving patients? Yes. I was not even aware the VA had an airlift capability like that. Think of us as a sub at that time.

I guess I just mean in general. I would assume that they wouldn't own or operate the aircraft. I didn't know that the VA was willing to do that. Yeah, so they paid the company. They had the contract with the company that I was working for to do that run. Okay. What airframe? 421, Lear 24.

Okay. Is the 421 a turbine? No. Okay. The Lear obviously is because that's a jet. Yeah. Those things are freaking missiles. Yeah, the first time I sat right seat.

I'm shocked you would fit in one actually because it's about the size of a skittal. I was a little smaller back then. I've only been in a Lear once. Not much. I've sat in the front of the Lear and the back of the Lear. It was on the ground. I wasn't flying it. If you are over the height of about four foot six, it's tight.

Yes. But holy shit, do they cut through the air? It's amazing how it. fast they are. Yeah. The captain looked at me and said, just sit there, don't touch anything, you know. That's fair. Yeah, that's fair.

Absolutely. Fuck 18,000 feet and I'm just eyes wide open, head back going, whole shit. Yeah. They are fast. They're an amazing plane. So within that company, the contract that I flew the most was for the Federal Reserve Bank. So in the morning, pulled the plane out of the hangar, the car would show up. deliver boxes, locked bags, just everything you can imagine that would go to a bank.

I had the east route, so I would leave Helen. I'd go to Billings all around Easter Montana. And I would lay over to anywhere from two to three hour in Glasgow. And I'd turn around to come right back. And then I'd be picking the bags and everything back up to get back to the Federal Reserve Bank. So this was legitimately when the banks were relying on a paper system. Yes. Wow.

And it was truly flight time per day was anywhere from seven to about seven and a half hours. And what plane would you guys use for that? I was flying a 310, Cessna 310. Is that a multi-engine? Mm-hmm. A turboprop? New. Oh, just piston.

Yes. Hell yeah. Banging it out. Probably steam gauges? Yeah. Yeah. I'll ask this question. You should know.

I mean, do you know what an NDB approaches? Yeah, it's like the predecessor to an ILS. It's a non-directional beacon. Correct. Yeah. You have no clue where the hell you are the whole time except for... Oh, that sounds safe. Fortunately, there's not any mountains in Montana, so what's the worst that could happen? Right. Simple, right? Absolutely simple. So I got my pilot's license, my private in 2006. Okay. And then I started pursuing aviation at a much deeper level. Let's see, it would have been 2011. NDBs were still in the literature.

Yes. I don't think one actually existed we could have practiced an approach on. Safest thing that's ever happened in aviation. Well, it's probably the best they had at the time. Yeah, so NDB, VOR, ILS were the three main approaches. Yeah, I'll take the ILS out of those three. Absolutely. Which stands for instrument landing system, and it's going to give you lateral and vertical

guidance. You get on the glide slope. You can fly the X on a steam gauge and it does a circle. Yes. If you're doing okay, sometimes you know, you can flirt a little bit with the edges of the circle, get a little weird. But yeah, and you can take an ILS down to, I think, like, 200 on your minimums. Yes.

Yeah. Yep. So these are the days when, I mean, you just basically sometimes bent over kissed your ass and thought might make it. And they... That's not awesome. It was in weather conditions like we've just seen. We went no matter what.

You were expected to land at every stop. And if you didn't, you usually got your ass chewed. How were some of those flights? What was the anti-icing capability of that aircraft? Did it have boots? I'm trying to think. The 310 did have boots. And for people right now, we're like, what are you talking about?

There's a couple ways you can have anti-icing on aircraft. Jets are going to have a front leading edge that is heated from the bleed air, which you can turn on and off. But it basically, it melts the leading edge. Or you have inflatable boots, which I'm not so sure why they call them boots because they don't look like boots. It's a flexible and compressible, and every time I've touched them, it feels like it's thick rubber. Yes. And think of it, so let's say it was non-inflated. It's on the front leading edge, oftentimes on the rear stabilizer as well.

It can build up ice. You flick it on. It starts to inflate until it gets at the point where the ice cracks and it falls off. And then it kind of pulses, but not at a rapid pace. And, yeah, what could go wrong? There actually is another system, which is a fluid system, like the Cirrus I flew for a long time, which was literally rated for, what they call it, a feke system, flight into known icing conditions. You'd flip a switch and assuming that you had actually.

filled up the anti-icing fluid. That's an important step in this. Eventually, not instantaneously. So God help you if you flew into icing conditions without turning these on. You would see the, it was a very porous metal edge. And if you really looked at it, it looked like the finest spaghetti strainer, super small holes. The pressure would put it through and it would coat the wing. Yes.

Not incredibly confidence-inspiring. No, not at all. Not at all. Actually, the first time I walked out on the tarmac and saw the three, You pretend that basically I flew for him the whole time. It had a big metal piece coming down kind of the front of the fuselage. I looked at the guy that was training me. I said, what the hell is that for?

He goes, well, that's so when the prop kicks the ice off, it doesn't come through your fuselage there. It's kind of a buffer. And I said a buffer. Oh, my. He said, yeah. So you guys, so a few days ago, it was blowing snow sideways. Mm-hmm. Super limited visibility, low fog, essentially.

And you guys would be expected to go. We would be expected to go. Holy cow. You definitely had some, be the technical term. Flights where your balls disappeared and shriveled up inside of you? Absolutely. Absolutely. Part of the best part is, too, you've got to realize in the winter, there's not that much light.

So a lot of it, you're flying at night. Oh, man. and there was another flight that would go Helena, Missoula, Calispell, and back. And you want to talk about Pucker Factor flying over the Bob Marshall Wilderness. I was going to say there's some... At night. You could go Helena to Billings and I wouldn't be too worried about major terrain features. Correct.

That flight you just described as all over major terrain. Yeah. Yeah. You don't stand a chance. Wow. So one of the best ones I had in comparison, and I must have been flying the UPS route. Like they'd move as pilots around and go all over,

but it was Billings, Lewistown, and Glendive, somewhere up there, took off out of there. It was loaded pretty heavy. My boots did not work, so the ice kept coming. It's not a problem. No, no. Pretty soon. It doesn't change the aerodynamics of your wing.

Not one bit. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So kind of made the decision I was going to turn and go into Lewistown. And at this point, I couldn't maintain my altitude. Everything was just falling apart. So get on with center, center or whatever, you know. I'm going to divert to Lewistown.

He said, no, no, bud, they just closed the airport. Well, now we are in a pickle. Yeah. And I basically said, I'm going there regardless. And he said, emergency? I said yes. And he said, okay, I'm going to lose you here in about 2,000 feet. Good luck.

I'm going to call the sheriff and somebody else. Real confidence-inspiring radio call. Yeah. The hell could go wrong here. So I'd been into Lewistown a bunch. So I kind of knew direction I was coming, my altitude, full power, still falling out of the sky. I can't see out of the windscreen at this point. It's a shit show.

So if you've ever been into Lewistown, the road runs right next to the runway. And I can't tell you which runway. It's been too long. Yeah. Coming down, coming down, and I'm looking, looking, waiting to drop the gear, and a car drives by me. And I thought, I got it. Boom, click the gear down, and I shift over, you know, in my mind, let's say 100 yards and hit the runway. And just thought, oh, my God.

And then I thought, I wonder what that car was thinking. Did you have a change of pants? I had to have. The sheriff was standing there, the UPS driver when I taxied over, and they both just went, oh, God. Well, what other choice did you have? And for people listening not familiar with aviation, it might be lost. The ice accumulation on the front leading edge changes, well, for one, it can slow down. You have now more induced drag.

Correct. Or actually, that would be parasitic drag. Because it's changing the drag. on your aircraft. But it also can change the airflow. Quick. Very quick. So the camber of the wing can change,

and it can get to the point where your wing can no longer provide lift, which I'm not an expert on aviation, but I believe that's important. Yes, yes. And there's different types of icing, just so everyone does know, and this was rhyme ice, which is the worst. Yes, it's not smooth.

It looks like snowflake after snowflake just building in every direction. It almost looks like the bottom of an, aggressive sponge. Yes. Like very porous. Yes. Or like Lava Rock would be another good example. Yeah, that's a great one.

Absolutely. So that was an interesting night. And I'm not going to lie. I was a little scared and definitely shaken. Yeah. How many hours do you think you had at that point? Maybe 1,300. Damn, that's a lot.

You know. That's a lot to handle with that. I mean, comparatively. that's a lot to handle with a low amount of hours. Yeah. Yeah. Single pilot at night. It was not fun.

So actually went to the brakes hunting this year with my son. And so I took him down the road and said, this is right where that car was. And he's like, oh, damn. Yeah. So, you know, it's a part of life. It's a great story. I'm glad I'm here to tell him. Did you ever consider absconding,

with locked bags and things that the banks gave you and perhaps diverting to Canada. Everybody asked me that. I mean, there's a potential D.B. Cooper situation here that I'm already playing out in my head. So my boss made it very clear. Do not look in the boxes. Don't open the bags.

Yeah. Some flights are long and boring. What are you supposed to do with your idle time? Well, it did have autopilot, and I did take a few naps. Yeah, I've done that too. It's not advised. No. No.

By any means. Yeah. I never did. I guess I just didn't want to take the chance of anything. It's better to not tempt yourself, probably. Yeah. The interesting part was like in Billings, there'd be an armored truck. Okay.

In Wolf Point, Montana, they had a box with a lock on it. That was 30-odd-6 for the combination. All that checks out. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so in the end, all we were doing was moving this around. But as a pilot, you just had to kick it outside the plane, and it wasn't your responsibility. Coming back into Helena, usually it was later at night, anywhere from like 10 to midnight.

You shut down, took everything out of the plane, stacked it, and that was it. If nobody was there, you weren't held responsible. The carrier was supposed to be on time. and better be on time. Yeah. And then they would transport it over to the Federal Reserve Bank. Had the late night flight, I can't remember which one it was, drove up to Poulson, family at the Lakehouse,

and I get a call first thing in the morning. Were all your bags accounted for, Mr. Turner? I said, yes, they were. Said documentation shows it. I put it in the box. There was a carrier there. They drove off. Thank you.

Click. So maybe half a day went by. I called my boss and he said, yeah, the carrier took one of their bags. I was going to say, I feel like somewhere after they were in your possession, somebody might have needed one a little bit more than the bank. Yeah. Bad move. Yeah, I don't know if I would play with the federal banking system. Even in those days, I think it might have been harder to track you down, but the likelihood of them doing so, I think was pretty high.

Yeah, I think they were going to get you no matter what. at that point. But kind of interesting, you know, this wasn't that long ago, but now we look at aviation and we look at GPS and how I describe it as it's kind of like getting a crayon drawn from one point to the other, making sure everything's inputted properly, and it's pretty simple. Have you ever been in a full glass cockpit that has synthetic vision? No. Are you familiar with the Cirrus airframe?

Yes. So when I got my private pilot license, it was the classic like Cessno 152, 180, like just a lawnmower with wings. Just brr-h. And I mean, you look back on getting your private pilot's license. You basically do a shit ton of left-hand turns in the pattern. And you do a little bit of transiting over to the training area and you do some stalls and stuff. It's one of those, it's one of those, I guess in some ways it's like a driver's license. You know probably enough to kill yourself and other people on the road.

Absolutely, that is perfect. Yeah. And I took a break because I had paid for my private pilot's license on my own. I didn't really have anything. It's not the cheapest endeavor. And I didn't have any justification for continuing to rent an aircraft and the gas and all that stuff. I was working for a company. And my boss was living in Santa Cruz.

Had a house impressed getting San Diego. He was just being exhausted by that triangle of drives. It wouldn't have been that far if the roads were actually straight. But, you know, he's probably driving two to three X the distance to get there. he called me up and said, hey, you have your pilot. Pilot's license, right? And I was like, yeah. He's like, okay, we're going to buy an airplane.

Go get back into it and just put your foot to the gas. And so I had heard of Sears before, and I knew that there was some really cool glass cockpit stuff out there. So he ended up buying a Sears. It was an SR22 turbo. I forget what year it was made. And I just saw, totally unrelated, but I just saw Sears just released their Generation 7 SR22. holy shit the capability of that thing. But even this one, it had a fleer under the left wing.

It had two huge displays, digital displays. So I could turn one of them into the fleer at night. So you could see it actually be great for Montana going into these more remote runways. Yeah. Animals on the run, like whatever it may be. But even outside of that, you can have it so like when you're on an approach or just flying in general, there's rectangles and you're moving through them. And it has the topography visually displayed. and it'll turn yellow if you get close from an altitude or distance or red and it'll give you alerts.

The runways show up. The taxiways are all, like I'm talking accurate to the point where the hash marks on the runway, you know, you're powering up to take off. Like, how do they do this? As you're passing the hash mark on the display, you're passing it. So as you're flying an approach, you visually can see like a purple or green line. The synthetic vision is showing you cities, terrain, water. You're inside the rectangle. And I'm not saying that anybody should do this, but you could fly that thing to the ground.

Most, you know, most approaches, as you know, we're probably going to terminate it at about 200 feet. Right. You know, there's some auto lane capabilities that commercial carriers have. They can go all the way to the ground, which is wild in and of itself. But, I mean, that's the level of general aviation at this point. If you invest in that, the synthetic display is unbelievable. If you're really good at playing video games, you can fly those planes. If you're really good at playing video games, it would actually be easier for you.

Flying the airplane, in my experience, I don't know about you. I've flown a good amount of airplanes at this point. When you pull back on the control, things get smaller. When you push forward, they get bigger. Left is left, right is right. So there's the flying aspect, but then there's the interfacing with the systems aspect. people who grew up in a digital world have an easier time with the interface. By all means.

By all means. You know, learning to fly with steam gauge as compared to now, it takes me a while when I climb in a new plane that I have to sit there and kind of really double check and how do we turn this thing on? When I went back and so I had to get recurrent and then I did my instrument. How did it go? I did instrument multi-commercial, or I might have done commercial. than multi, I don't know. And then I got my Gulfstream type and then my 525 type with my ATP. It was all digital as soon as I got back into it.

And I made that choice because I didn't know how far I was going to be able to take it, but you can kind of see the riding on the wall. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And also, I wasn't paying for it at that point. So like, let's do this. Yeah. Easy then, right? I was hired to go pick up a Bonanza G-36 out of Oregon years ago.

and I'd flown the bonanza quite a bit, but not this new and not this fancy. And it was for a really good friend of mine. He said, you know, go pick this up, sure. So at the end, he's like, well, I'm going to go with you. And I was like, well, that's fine. So we get down there and he goes, well, you know, do we need to show your certificates or anything? I said, no, no. I said, just follow my lead.

I said, but, you know, do not hesitate. You know, what I say goes. He's like, okay. So we walk up and there's a ramp boy there. I introduced myself, you know, said I'm here to get this plane. And I said, I want it fueled. I want power to it. I'm going to go have some lunch.

Then I'm going to come back. I'm going to pre-flight it. Then I'm going to get the hell out of here. Are we clear? The kid looks at me and goes, damn clear. And so he went and had lunch. He said, why do you act like that? I said, I actually don't even know how to start this plane.

And he just looked at me and said, well, yeah, but I've never been in this one. That's a general rating. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which you can get, I think, in like a Cessna. Absolutely. Yeah.

But it had more bells and whistles. I had to figure out even to get it, you know, to turn. It can actually overwhelm a pilot. I would agree. If you're not used to that level of information being used to. I mean, some of these things have live radar, like all, you're just sitting there looking at that and like, oh, shit, mountain. Right. Yeah.

And we've seen that in aviation accident reports. Everybody's heads down. Nobody's looking out the window saying. Which is kind of the best part of flying. the mountain coming here, boys. I'm jealous of the fact you were able to fly just all over Montana like that. What a great way to see the state, man. Yeah, and it's a big state, and it's beautiful.

The best thing I've done in my aviation career was my dad was a corporate pilot, and I spent a lot of time flying with him, and we were flying a twin commander, and just great memories, and a very small amount of people, I feel get to do that with their dads. For sure. You know, he was actually a Navy pilot. Okay. What do you fly in the Navy? Flew helicopters.

Interesting. The Chinooks. Okay. 46s? Yes. I was trying to get him, talk to him last week, and get him to tell me what he, he doesn't really talk too much about it.

Did he serve in Vietnam? He did not. He actually ended up going to Germany. Hmm. And I asked him why, because he was actually lined up, getting ready to be shipped out, and somebody, one of the higher ups, walked in and asked if anybody in the room knew how to type, and he was the only one that raised his hand.

And he said, you're going to Germany, the rest of you going to Vietnam? Yeah, I ask about going to Vietnam because in my experience, even with my own father, it hasn't been until relatively recently that he has opened up a lot more about his experiences there. It's not uncommon that they don't want to talk too much about it. Right. Yeah, my mom's first husband was killed in Vietnam. He was an Air Force pilot. So just different times, I guess. Different times, difficult environment to operate in. Yeah, that's tough. So how long did you fly for the state for? So that job, I think I flew for those guys, just right around two years. And then I believe at the time it was kind of like your son. I was chasing a girl and ended up. back in Spokane. When I got back Spokane, I actually did finish my instructor's certificates,

so CFI, I, M-E-I. Oh, damn. Yeah. And then I instructed for University in North Dakota there for years. They had a small flight school there associated with one of the community colleges. And so I instructed, I think, a little, about two years for them. Sounds like you're still active in flying as well. Not as much as I should be. Do you have a plane? No, I sold my last plane. I sold probably four or five years ago at this point.

I had a nice little kind of savings account building up for a new one, and then my wife and I decided to build a new house last year. You'll get more usage out of the house. Yeah, that's kind of what she said. Yeah. I have a few friends who have talked about private aircraft ownership. I think the average length of ownership is about two years. I would agree with that.

In the jet world specifically, because there's the acquisition cost and then there's the operating cost, and insurance cost, and maintenance cost. And it is heavy. It is heavy. And any aircraft that you look at in buying, I owned a Blanca Super Viking, older airplane, and the maintenance was a killer. Yeah. It was fun to fly.

It was fast and good time. But the maintenance on it was just dragging you down. Yeah. Yeah, there's more than the acquisition cost. I think that's lost on a lot of people. I do have a friend. What's he flying right now? The M600?

I want to say the Cessna M 600. Bought it new. Came with a great... Pull that thing up, Michael. I want to see what this looks like. with a great maintenance package. Yeah. And fuel card included.

But when you spend that amount of money, they should give you something. I would hope so. Now, he's selling that. Ooh, that thing's sexy. And has got a bladis ordered. The old PC12? Yes. Because they now make a jet.

I saw that. That's pretty impressive. As I'm sure is the fuel bill. Absolutely. that looks like a lot like a meridian yeah they're a beautiful plane god those things i bet you they haul ass too and he went from asseris to the m6 well you know again push forward it gets bigger pull back it gets smaller left is left right is right a lot i mean it's a single engine that's a turban obviously um so you'll have to get used to the and that was the big jump for

me from going from Piston to Turbent is you're doing the same things, but the velocity that you're doing them, hitting through your climb altitude, your mandatory turns, all that stuff. So you'd have to get used to the speed. But the Sirius avionics suite is pretty complicated. And if you can handle and get used to that while managing, you know, managing your, the requirements of what the system, like, it's not actually, it wouldn't be that hard. No. And you need to remember to put the gear down. I mean, that helps, even though I've seen it done without that. A few times. That is an absolute, like when I, to me, the definition of wealth is the ability to do what you want to with your time.

Yeah. Which doesn't mean that I don't have desires to be wealthy, which I'm not for everybody listening. If I did have money, I would probably splurge on something like that. But it'd have to be a lot of money because, I mean, that's millions of dollars right there. Well, and you have to be using it. Correct. Well, I have something that you don't use. This is a true story.

especially that you pay that much money for. Yes. And it's unlikely that aircrafts are going to appreciate in value. I have seen it, but it's rare. Yeah. You know, it's like anything in life that we do or buy or if you use it, great. If you don't get rid of it. Well, the money you put into your house, that one's probably going to appreciate.

And it also provides a home for you and your family. Yeah. And that's important. you know, you only get to be with these kids for so long. Yeah. So how long did you fly professionally? You did the, that's awesome. And that's how most people get a lot of hours, the certified flight instructor.

CFI2 means you can do instrument teaching, right? And then MEI is the multi-engine instructor. Yes. Yeah. Overall, I really couldn't tell you. I don't really look back and try and count up everything. No, I mean, like how many years? Like at what point did you switch from doing that job and move on to something else in your professional

career. My grandmother passed away and I was working for a company, went in, actually had a job offer from a major airline at the time, which was unheard of. My boss, I actually told him I was done. And he looked to me and said, why? I said, I'm actually going to go back and finish college. And he's like, huh all right so i i left aviation at that point um kind of as my full time and then i don't know why i guess because i had started college i wanted to finish it and it was on my time my money my everything well you probably were at a better space maturity wise as well absolutely uh i can remember walking in just kind of like you and your son trying to get financial aid and i can remember the gal just laughed at me.

She's like, no. She's like, this is what you made last year flying. Yeah, but that was last year. I didn't fly anymore. I was like, come on. Yeah. So, believe it or not, I got a bank, a banker out of Ronan, who, a good family friend, lent me the money to finish college. And I had to basically write it all out what every penny was going for, this and that.

And the one thing he put in there is I had to pay it back 12 months after I graduated. Okay. So that was, graduation day came. I'm sure I was partying pretty good, having a good time. And that's when I ended up deciding to move to Polson and starting this construction company. What type of construction? Residential and commercial. Okay.

For some reason, lately we've been building a lot of hangars. Really? Yeah. Hangers. What airfield? Ronae. Polson is pretty much out of anywhere to put. anything new. Ronan is

halfway in between kind of Poulson and Missoula. It's on the flat section before you go down the hill. Yep, 12 miles south, Poulson. Okay, I think there's a small tandem skydiving operation that goes on there sometimes. Yes, there is. Okay. And that's why I know where that is at. Okay. GPS approach into their

longer runway, lots of jets in and out. Really? Mm-hmm. Like, big jets? We're talking... Big? Really? I'm... Okay. Yeah. Are people building compounds out there? They're building compounds on the lake.

Okay. And it's just easier for them to land there as opposed to Glacier Park? Yes. Okay. Except for whoever flies the 757 into here. I see that thing there from time to time. In my mind, there's just a dude back there with like a dirty martini. Oh, God.

Take me wherever I want to go in my 757. That's when you know you've made it. If I had enough money for a 757, I would let Michael look at it, but that fuck it would never go in that thing. Or I'd invite him in. Hey, Michael, let's go somewhere. Right before they started the engine, I'm like, hey, get out of here. I'm going there, not yet. But grab me a beer on your way out.

Totally. God, can you imagine the operating cost on $7.57? No. You can't even think about it. I know exactly which one you're talking about as well. Because it's very hard to miss, actually. Dead center. Yeah.

Close. Yeah. Okay, so you've been building hangers. Okay, so there is a small airport down in Polson. out of space. All right. Yeah. So kind of, you know, we do a lot of different work.

As my guys always joke the work for me. We never know what we're going to do day to day. But, you know, Poulson's a great place to live, as I kind of mentioned, hard place to make a living. So we do a lot of different things. And for people listening, Poulson is that the southern terminus of the Flathead Lake, which is the largest freshwater lake west of the Mississippi. It's kind of, I'm not going to say it's in the middle of nowhere, but it's kind of in the middle of nowhere.

Ronan is more in the middle of nowhere. Huh. Yeah. Our south to Missoula, our north to Cal'sville. Yeah. So it's not bad. Did you have a construction background when you decided to start your construction business?

I had some knowledge, not probably what I needed, but. just one of those things you jump in and learn. How long have you been at it now? Sorry for the hesitation. I'm trying to count my mind. It's been right at 20 years. Okay. What do you think is the biggest lesson that you've learned in those 20 years?

Make sure you take care of the guys that take care of you. Take care of your people? Yeah, absolutely. You know, clients, it's like anything. You don't lie. You know, be up front, be honest. It's way easier to deal with. Yeah.

You know. Any catastrophic mistakes that stick out along the way? 20 years is a great amount of runway and opportunity to really fuck things up. That it is. Absolutely it is. Probably the biggest mistake I've ever made was to give my sister-in-law nail gun and hold the board. I'm going to assume that went into your hand. That went right through my thumb.

And I thought, you're the biggest idiot in the world right now. Why the hell would you think? Which one are you referring to? Your sister-in-law or you? Me. Okay. She did great. She did exactly what I said.

But yeah, how dumb can you be? She's never shot a nail gun before. Of course, she's not going to know what the hell to do. I've done dumber things than that, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. How about on the business side? What people, it's an interesting balance.

And I can see the draw to both. For a long time, I worked four people, largely. when I was in the military, you know, you're working for the government, but you still are reporting to the people who tell you when to be there, what you're going to do, pretty boundaryed. The role I had post-military was, again, for an organization where I had more flexibility in my hours, but these are the thing, this is your job. This is what you're going to get paid. This is what you're going to do. So there's the stability there. And then there's people who want to work for themselves, which technically I do now.

I have the podcast. I have the coffee shop with my business partner. And there's a level of freedom that comes with that. And I would also be lying if there's not a sense at time of absolute crushing anxiety and waking up in the morning or in the middle of the night trying to work your way through whatever problems are being presented to you because now you have people working for you. Now you have to set those boundaries. And sure, you can pick what days you want to work, but in doing so you might need to pick whether or not you want to eat and whether or not the people that were. work for you are going to have the ability to eat or pay their mortgages. There's an equal draw to both, but I often hear people who are working for others. I just need, I don't want to do this

shit anymore. I want to work for myself. Be careful what you're asking for. Absolutely. There is a lot of uncertainty on the other side of that rainbow, and I'm not, I would never try to talk somebody out of it, but I would try to help them make an educated choice. Yeah, that's a great way to put it. And look at it, I'm completely with you. There are nights you do not. sleep. And it's not worrying about myself. It's worrying about the ones that rely on me. I think personally

Montana's going to slow down here a little on the new housing. I think it already has. Yeah. But the pricing also needs to come down too. I'm not, the combination of the Elon Musk Mars rocket pricing with

a interest rate. That's crazy, yes. I mean, I know what the median income is. in Calispell, and I know what the median even rent or ability or the price for a home is, right. That is not a mathematical equation that works. Not at all. Not at all.

Yeah. So I think as a business owner, we always have to be looking forward. And I'm not saying this about all of our workers or any of our workers, but they're focused more on day to day. You know, what are we doing today? What am I going to do this weekend? Blah, blah, blah. It's largely their job, though, too. Yeah, we have to look forward.

And so I, and I could be totally wrong here, I see kind of a little downturn, and especially in Polson. There's only so much land and so many lakefront. So I'm actually looking at bringing in a new company or developing a new company doing some manufacturing for another company out of Spokane. Hmm. That I know they can't find enough people. So we're going to maybe shift some of their operations over here. which would allow you to diversify a little bit out of just the construction realm, give you a little bit more buffer to marking conditions.

That's smart. Yeah. The biggest thing I always did and why I became my own boss is simply because I love to hunt and fish. It's a good state for it. The last one, though, is waste of your time. Oh, come on now. I'll go fishing with you if we can throw dynamite in the water. And that's about it.

I'd be fine with grenades as well. Yeah. but dynamite and grenades is how I would prefer to fish. I mean, I've seen a river runs through it. I'm not a gay man. I would fuck Brad Pitt and still consider myself a heterosexual in that movie. Michael and I have talked about this. He's in the same boat.

But I don't have any desire to put waiters on and just ten and two it or whatever. Yeah. I'm not going to lie. I like to catch fish, so, you know, we're throwing lures, and we're doing what you've got to do to actually get them in the boat. Have you tried dynamite? I'm not against it. You work in the construction industry.

I'm sure you know somebody that is in the mining world that could trade you for a pallet of two-by-fours. Maybe one is left here and the other one is left there. No one knows exactly what happened with it. Because let me tell you what you're going to get, and that's more than fishing with the lure. It's all how you look at it. You might also go to prison. I'm not saying that that's not going to be the case. But your harvest that day...

Somebody's probably going to show up knock on your door. Probably. Now, if you want to, I mean, if you want to hunt and fish, this is definitely the place to do it. Again, I just, I want people to make educated choices. And I want them to know what they're getting into and not. I would never tell somebody not to dive headlong into their dream, but do it smartly. I'm a fan of taking risks. I'm not a fan of gambling.

And uneducated decisions to me is more in the long lines of gambling versus, you know, pros and cons and looking at what you can do, diversifying your business out of real construction and adding the manufacturing me like that, that's smart. You're looking at the terrain in front of you what you think is coming as opposed to just gambling with it all and saying, here we go. This is what we're going to do. Yeah, I would agree. I think for sure, if we're not paying attention, we're not looking forward. You're going to trip. You're going to fall. And like you said, make an educated guess. Absolutely. Do I complain every time a new business, opens up in Poulson or construction company comes down. No, you know, it's business. You've got to be

smart. My wife owns a woman's clothing boutique in Poulson. You know, she's done well. She had no college education. She didn't know what she was doing, but she talked to me about it. And I said, well, do it. But be smart about it. Yeah. And she's done well. And so it is very nice to see somebody go out and try and achieve what they've wanted to achieve or get out of it what they want to get. What advice would you give to somebody who is working for somebody else in whatever business sector it may be? And they just feel this like, I can't do this anymore.

I have to be my own boss. As somebody who's done it for two decades, what advice would you give to somebody? Loyalty goes a long ways. I would honestly say add up, left in the right column, pros and cons, you know, take a hard look. Are you in a good spot? Do you really want something that you have to baby? You don't get weekends off sometimes. So you got to be honest. Really is what it comes down to for me, and that's what I would tell somebody else. Be honest with yourself.

Does this work for you? Yeah. In the 20 years you've been in construction, what was the hardest time you've had to navigate? 06, 07. when the trapdoor opened on the housing market. Yes. God. I'm pretty sure. I experienced that in a fun way. We sold a house in Virginia Beach at the apex of that, and then I bought right before the trapdoor opened in San Diego, immediately 200K underwater.

Oh. It's fine. Yeah. It's fine. My investment strategy is buy high, sell low, and use the rest of the money you have to invest in new cars because they're great for retaining their value. You and I got to get a beer after this because we are on the same. say, page.

Yeah. God, I've had some good luck in real estate. But you know what? Let me clarify this. I have always looked at investing in real estate as the home I'm going to live in. Not speculative. And the reason I didn't do anything speculatively is I've never dedicated the time or energy or effort to understand it. So when I say I've had some good calls in real estate, that just means the house that I was living in.

It was either doing okay or not doing good. I wasn't treating it as an investment, even though that's what it was. It was just my home, and sometimes you hit it on the up of the sine wave, and sometimes you hit it on the down. Yeah. You know, I think we all were pretty impressed when COVID came along that the market went crazy. Yeah, I bet your business exploded. Yeah. That's when we built the coffee shop was in the middle of COVID.

And let me just tell you, I would like to find some of those people that gave us those quotes and beat my money back out of them. Yeah. And it would be... Construction companies are, you know, kind of crooks. Oh, the 24-hour lumber quotes? Yeah. Yeah. And so my father was a masonry contractor.

And I grew up on a job site with him, which was such, looking back on it, an awesome education and just the real world. There's no round edges. Everywhere I looked, I was banging into shit and cut myself up. And there's also, every once in a while I'll remember something. Like, here's an example. My dad dropped his trowel down. He was finishing up on a roof, finishing up a fireplace.

And he dropped his trial down the flu. And it got caught above the, what is it, the damper that you move in and out. And I'm maybe 11 at the time. And he calls me the job site. He goes, okay, we're going to type a rope around your feet. We're going to lower you down head first. And you're going to grab this trow. And you're not going to tell your mom.

And I'm going to give you $50. So I'll remember shit like this We were having dinner the other night And my wife Leah was asking my dad About me working What was your job the first year? My first year was just moving shit The second year

Oh, I know what it brought this up My son started a window cleaning business This kid, yeah, it's called Peeping Tom Windows It's amazing He's got business cards He has a Christmas light service I keep telling him to call it Epstein's lights With the subtext

They're not going to hang themselves But he's going to turn off a segment of the market, but for some people, they'll never forget it. And he's going to have a phone that's ringing. Absolutely. Good for him. So he, God, he's such a swindler. He talks my dad into buying him all the equipment that he needs for his business. Grampy, do you want to invest in your grandson's future? That's a businessman right there.

He's doing great. He gets a ladder. He gets the ladder jacks. He gets the two-by-four. He swindles my dad and to let him practice on the house. that they're staying in, the bucket, the squeegee, and goes on to these multi-story houses and doesn't tie himself off. And he's on the edges. And Leah had asked him, she said, hey, do you tie yourself off? He's like, oh, yeah, I definitely do. And I'm looking, I'm like,

what do you tie yourself off too? And I can instantly tell that he's full of shit. And he's trying to make up an 18-year-old. I'm just stop. I'm like, just stop. You're not tying yourself at all. And then my wife brings that up to my dad. And he's telling her about when I was 12, my second year, he goes, it's your second summer. This year you get to use a jackhammer. I want you to get up on this roof. And I remember this roof. It was like a three-story house.

Stand on top of the fireplace and start shaving it off. And we're going to tie a rope around your waist and you're going to be all right. And I asked him at dinner, what was the other side of that rope tied? He said, nothing. I'm like, what the fuck? That was my security blanket. He said, we just threw it off the other side of the, we just threw it off the other side. You're fine.

You made it. I guess, God, I remember some of these stories. But, I mean, it was such a lesson in hard work. Yeah. In, like, communication, interpersonal skills. I didn't like some of the people my dad had working for him. I didn't want to do some of the stuff my dad wanted me to do. but I wanted money.

Money. And then I got into boot camp. I'm like, oh, God, this is a vacation. This is so much easier than working for my dad. But yeah, it's, I don't even know how I got onto that.

But yeah, my... You know, I think that was a good time when parents actually did something for their children. I mean, my dad owned a company that was kind of construction, but kind of not. It was an exterior wall finish.

Yeah. And we didn't get to just lay around and play video games. Oh, we didn't even have any. You know, we had three channels on the TV. that time, but he taught all of us how to work. Yeah.

And every one of us has a job, as a family, and really in today's world, doing pretty damn good. I think even in today's world, if you're willing to work and you know how, you're going to be okay. 100% agree. You may not pave your driveway with gold bricks, but I also don't know if that actually should be the goal for everybody. It can be. There's too much jealousy in this world about money. Yeah. And what other people have. And I see it in my kids. Mine are just a little younger than yours. My daughter's 15 and my son's 10. Well, they have a tool that we didn't have access to, which makes everything in life a comparison.

And that's their goddamn phone. I agreed. Everything is a value comparison. Look at what they're in. Look at the car. Look at the house. Look at the school. Look at the clothes. Look at the shoes. I don't think I would have been able to, I think it would have melted my brain. I'm completely with you. It drives me crazy.

You know, put your phone down. Take a look around. So how do you manage that with your kids? Because I say the same thing and they go like this. Hold on, dad, you left this in my pocket. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

That 15-year-old daughter of mine has looks that will knock you back. That's the exact same age of my daughter, yeah. Yeah. And her and her mom, I just wait. I'm just waiting for one of them to throw the first punch. If they do, what are you going to do? Going to open another beer and watch it. That's what I'm talking about.

I have to. I think that's the move. That's how you learn. I think it would be the end of you if you got in the middle of that. There's no chance I'm getting in that fight. No. Sorry. There's some you've got to sit back and watch.

The women fighting each other, like they'll pull cutler out of the block. Oh, absolutely. Like the dudes will slap each other around a little bit, maybe like a suplex. Yeah. We're talking pairing knife might come out on that. Yeah. There's going to be some bloodshed. I figured, you know, get another beer and just watch the fight.

How do you manage their electronic usage? It is so hard when their entire social circle is interfacing in that way. So for our daughter, we actually didn't get her a cell phone until I believe she was 12. And it was a fight, 12 or 13, somewhere in there. Because by that point, let me guess. Dad, all of my friends have a cell phone. Yes. Everybody, like they all have Snapchat, whatever it may be.

Yes. So one is a maker have the same code, so we can look at it. We know what's going on. Do you, though? Probably not as much as I think. I'd like to think yes, but deep down, I'm like, you're just the dumbass dad. You know, wake up. Do you know about the apps inside of apps? Obviously, since I can't even, you know, get my phone to turn on half the time, hell no. How much do you want to know? If I have a problem with the phone, I hand it to one of them. Oh, boy. Yeah.

Oh, Jesus, Dad. Here you go. So they can nest other apps. Right. Inside of apps. And disguise the apps to look like a calculator. But you have to put in a certain number sequence on the calculator for it to open the actual app. Basically, our kids are way more technologically advanced than we are.

Absolutely. And the reason I ask this and I bring this up is I, I, have the same concerns with my kids. And I have from day one with them. Because I don't think I can't, I cannot evolve at the speed that they can with the technology.

And I don't know if this is the right approach, but it's the approach that I've taken. And that is just trying to maintain open and honest communication with them. And not be a portal of judgment, but being somebody, and they don't always come to me by any stretch. But I've had some pretty

conversations that would have shocked me before I had kids, meaning I'm shocked and so grateful that they are comfortable coming to me to have those conversations, that they trust me enough that they know I'm not going to come over the top and snap on them. Sure. Whether it be, you know, drug, sex, alcohol, the combination of all three, social interactions, whatever it may be, because I can't evolve with them. So I'm just trying to stay in touch with them.

That's a great way to put it. And I personally, I put a lot of faith in my daughter with her phone. But she knows that if I catch her lying, if I catch any sign of anything that myself and my wife don't agree with, the consequences are going to be huge. Yeah. Now, my 10-year-old son does take a phone to school, and that's because my daughter just got her driver's license in November. So she's not allowed to talk on her phone while she's driving. Pretty simple. Yeah.

So he'll call now. I'll be like where are you guys. You know where we are. Yeah. The thing with if any one of your children's friends has a cell phone, they're looking at titties. I mean, that's what they're looking at. That's what I was looking at that age. They were just in a magazine.

I was going to say, yeah. Paper back. Michael's over like, what are you talking about? Tidies on paper? Have you ever seen a Playboy, Michael? No. Really? Actually, do they still sell Playboy?

Probably online. You've got to be able to order one. I don't have a clue. You've never had the experience of going into like a liquor store and on the shelf behind the person working there. There was like the hustler, the Playboy, and it was in plastic. You've never had this experience. I don't think they have those anymore because I went to a liquor store. like a week ago and it wasn't there wasn't anything there or like 7-11s kind of any gas station you just be able to what have we done what have we robbed them of oh they're screwed they're never going to get it back that's the problem those for the glory days well and again we can't evolve at the speed that they can right I don't know if I want to see the browser history of my kids you know they may not have access to playboy and hustler or whatever

whatever it used to be, I am terrified of what they do have access to. As a parent, I think we all should be. And if you're not, then you're actually not a parent. Yeah. What I have a hard time with with kids right now is the fluffy, or whether you're a cat or a dog. What? Yeah.

I need my daughter here. She'd know the term. Oh, you mean people who are identifying as a cat or dog? Yeah. I mean, and this is just me. I don't think it's just you. I would walk up to their parents and slap the shit out of their parents before I would the kid. Because the parents are actually not being parents.

They're letting their kid do whatever the hell they want. I'm more curious in what the end state of that particular ideology is. I was having this conversation actually last night with my dad and his wife and my wife. And I forget what you were talking about because it gets a little bit blurry. There's a conversation about a transgender community, the LGTBQ plus whatever it may be this. day. I don't know where. I'm peripherally aware of people who feel like they identify. I've seen winged creatures, the furries or whatever. And so I don't know where they fit into all that. Right. And I'll say again, I think that people should be able to live their life the way that they

want to. I completely agree. And it rubs me the wrong way, though, when their beliefs require me and they demand me to participate in their beliefs. Like, that's a step too far for me. But what is the end state? Like, what does this look like played out over five years and ten years? Like the child that says to their parent, I'm a cat. I was born in the wrong body. I'm a cat.

And they're 15. And I don't know why I'm picking that age. I'm just picking one out there. And the parents participate in this. What does life look like for that person at 25? Terrible. And what does it look like for our society if we change and we force everybody to affirm the belief that a homo sapian believes they are a feline born in the wrong body? Where does that lead us?

I think just a damn scary place. Man, it's back that you have to be a parent, whether it's what your kid wants to be. or their cell phone activity. I mean, this all ties together in today's world. You have to be a parent. At some point, grow the fuck up and be a parent. Yeah. Period for me.

You know, I kind of laugh and say you should have to take an IQ test to have a child, but I don't think that's ever going to pass. It won't. They also don't make you take one to get a gun, though, either. Or a driver's life. license. We didn't take one to get our pilots licenses. I probably wouldn't have a pilot's license. That might have changed us. Unfortunately, the barriers to having a child are quite low from an emotional, intelligence, and physical requirements. Yes. You know, it's not a whole lot of

things required in that recipe. That is a true point. I will admit, I... I love guns. I love our freedom. I would actually sometimes be okay with people having to take an IQ test to own a gun. Given the fact that it's designed to take life, which is an interesting, I've had very interesting conversations with people who actually, they don't want to admit that. They'll say, no, it's to protect life. Like, you can use it to protect life, but I think that that's an intellectually dishonest position to hold. and I actually don't think it weakens the argument for having guns by saying it's designed to take life. People comply when a weapon is pointed at them because they're afraid their life is going to be taken. And of course, you can use it to stop horrendous acts, but that person is complying because they don't want to die. And let's just call it what it is.

I mean, we do a background check to see what kind of nefarious activities that they are involved in. I mean, people will lose their mind if you were to add any other barrier to ownership, you know, that shall not be in fringe crowd, which I'm not saying I disagree with at all. But I would like to, you know, have conversations about that. I'm not advocating for it, but I think it's, I'm like, let's just talk about these things. Yeah. And there's no harm in talking about it at all. Change can be good.

Yeah. I don't know if it's good if we're, if we're. changing our society to allow people to think they're cats, though. I completely 100% agree with you on that handy. Do your kids go to public school? They do. Do they go down at Poulson? Yes.

How is the public school system navigating that particular issue? And call it broadly the identification issue. I would have to say that I think backs are turned more than the situation as being dealt with. We probably don't have as many as, you know, larger communities. Statistically, Michael, I'm going to have to have you look this up because I don't want to misspeak. I would never argue that transgenderism isn't real. I'm curious, though, can you look up, Michael, like in a human society, what the statistical rate of that happening is

because it is my understanding that we are well outside of the norm on that particular issue. Really? Even in Montana, yes. It's a low fractional percentage. And when my own

children anecdotally are talking about in the schools that they're going to dozens, and this is their words not mine, we're outside of the mathematical norm at that point. Well, Okay. Yeah, I believe I've only heard of a couple. But that doesn't mean much. What'd you find, Michael? Looks like 1.4%, but that seems high. I don't think that that's right. 1.4%? Okay. I'll keep looking. Okay. I mean, it's the reason I bring that up is that, I mean, I remember myself, call it my early teenage years. And I'm seeing it now in my own,

children, I think we should expect it in all children. They're very malleable and susceptible at that age. Yes. They are navigating a social and emotional and hormonal environment that by design, I don't think we could make it any worse. No, we could not. And I don't care if people like what I'm about to say next or not, it almost seems in some of those circles where there is a reward system and a different

you get to play by a slightly different set of rules if you identify with particular groups. So there is an incentive to align or associate with them. And I think that's where we can start to lose control of what's actually going on. Yeah, I guess I've never really thought of it like that. That's an interesting point. That definitely, if you're listening to this, you have to think about. I don't it's a it's just a tough area and again this whole top part is pretty good 3% yeah so the DSM 5 which I've heard pros and cons about estimates that 0.005% to 0.0.0.04% of

people assigned male at birth and 0.002% to 0.003% of people signed female at birth are diagnosable with gender dysphoria so that's I mean that's a very very very very very small number. Yes. I like the point, Andy, that you brought up. For any kid at that age, there's so much going on in your body and in the world and everything. We're lucky to survive the ages of 12 to fucking 18. Absolutely.

For women. Dudes, we're retards well past that. And we know that. Yeah. I would argue, I haven't exited that phase of my life yet. And I don't know if I want to. I'm with you. We wouldn't have any fun.

What the hell? I mean, I'm okay with who I am. Damn right at this age. Yeah. And I do some dumb shit. Oh, we have to. Half the time, I know it's going to be done, too. I'd like to say it's a mistake or an accident, but nope, it's just me.

Yeah. My wife asks me once a week, how the fuck are you still alive? And my only response is, I don't know. Just trying to be honest. I don't know. My wife just doesn't ask anymore. Yeah. Oh, you're home.

But I look back at who I was at that age, and I say this, and I barely remember who I was, but I remember I was fucking uncomfortable in my skin because I didn't know who I wanted to be. I've never had a lot of friends. So from a social perspective, I would say I was a little bit more of an outlier. And I remember, like, behavior modifying to try, you know, not that it was. trying to be a chameleon, but that's a good example. You kind of change your behavior to be accepted in the social group that you're in. And I think of interactions that I had back at that time early high school that I still regret to this day.

I don't remember the exact person that I had the interaction with, but I remember my behavior. And I'm embarrassed of the person I was in that moment. I try to give myself a little bit of grace because what a shit show of being a human being. what a just a mess of a period of time in your life. And it, even though you're mid-40s, right? 46. Okay. I'm 48.

It's fun to think about now because you can kind of laugh at yourself. Oh, yeah. And be like, yeah, I was that damn ice. Or I look at my son and I'm like, oh, your day's coming, bud. Yep. You know. Isn't it awesome to watch them walk up to the ledge knowing they're going to trip and fall in? Yeah.

And you have to let him. Yeah. That's the hardest part about being a parent. Like, I don't want my kid to get, uh, smashed into, like, crossing the street without looking both ways and get hit. Right. But I also don't want to rob him of the mistakes he needs to make early on. And it's tough.

So he can have a better life down the road. Yeah, you want to protect him by all means. But at the same time, you've got to sit back and just let them do their thing. Yeah. So you have a lot of great points that I was just kind of running through my mind. It's the time of their life that really their bodies are changing, their mind's changing. They want to be in the cool crowd. You know, they want so many different things,

but they can't take the first step to even get step one done or under control. And that's okay. Absolutely. I don't know how that's lost. Yeah. Where did we lose that it's okay to not know who you are? And you don't have to identify with any fucking groups. Oh, not at all.

Just be yourself. Yeah. Which is hard enough at that age. Absolutely. I mean, yeah. Absolutely. It's tough. You know, even in today's world, we're talking about dealing with money and everybody, you know, we're all chasing something, but you need to stop and relax and just kind of see what's in front of you.

I know a few, I was going to say relatively wealthy, but I think they would fall into the category of extremely wealthy. I think at some level of wealth, if you were to ask them, how much is enough? I'd go right back to the second Wall Street where the guy Shia LaBouf asks What the fuck is the guy name and the Avengers? Thanos.

I can't remember as the actor's name but it was the Thanos character. What's your number? And the guy's answer, I think, is probably the most, was it Josh Brolin? Ask him, you know, what is your number?

And I think he gave one of the most honest answers that if you're not careful will consume the rest of your life. Because his answer was more. Right. Fuck, man. You're on a track with no end. Yeah.

You're on a hamster wheel lined with gold with diamond-plated steps. And it's not enough. It's not enough. And I hope that those people, I hope they get to enjoy it. But do they ever? That's a question I always have. Yeah, hard to say. And I also, I know there's an easy trap to fall into.

It's a mental trap, I think, where, you know, if I could just, if I could become a millionaire, my problems are going to go away. And then, well, okay, well, I need to need to have an eight figure net worth. I need to have tens of millions. And then you start navigating different social circles like, shit, that guy's got a jet. Okay, I need a hundred million. Like, son of a bitch, that guy's got a 757. I need to be a billionaire.

Some of those fucked up people I know are really wealthy. It doesn't remove any problems. No, it does not. Not by any means. Yeah. Yeah, what is the number? I don't know. I'll have to...

Depends on what you... What you want out. Yeah. I want time. Wealth to me is the ability to do what I want to with my time. Yes. And do whatever the hell you want. Yeah.

And, you know, for all of us different, if you want to go to Cabo fishing or you want to go to Alaska hunting, how does that fit in and what kind of money do I need to do that do enjoy it? Unfortunately, for me, the things I want to do, there's no level of money that would allow it. Because I want to drive a tank through fucking buildings in downtown city. and like blast buildings with the tank rounds. I don't think anybody's going to let me do that. I think you're fucked. You can throw it out there. Yeah.

Like I want to own an F-22 and I want to blow cars up on the freeway. And I can't, I don't think of a level of wealth that lets me do that. I want to hunt elk with an A-10. Like, we got it. We're good. Get a semi-truck. Can't do it. That would be long range.

God, there wouldn't be anything. No. You can get some hooves, I think. Make some glue. Easy to load. Yeah. Yeah. So I have been lucky enough to spend 27 years as a guide for big game hunting. How did you get into that? Because you can't just raise your hand one day and say, hey, I'm a guide, right? There's actual process? Or was there when you started? There was not when I started. Ah, you got a little grandfathered in. I like where your head's up. A long, long time ago. The gentleman that called me and said, hey, this pilot just crashed, they need another one to call. His best friend was an outfitter, or is an outfitter. And I had been bow hunting the same ranch as a teenager that he was guiding, or had leased for rifle hunting.

And so he hated me at first because I'd just run all over hell chasing everything, you know. And then he'd have to come in after we were. done and see if he could get some elk or deer for some clients. Yeah, you're going to push animals bow hunting for sure. Yeah. And, you know, back then, it wasn't, you know, we had the old camo. This was no, not hunting like in today's world. You know, the bows were different.

Everything was different. But when I'd gotten back from flight school and it was September, this one buddy call and said, hey, my other buddy needs a guide. Would you do it? And I was like, do I get paid? And he's like, yeah. I was like, I'm in. So that's how it started. And 27 years later, this was the first year that I didn't guide for him due to we didn't have a lease. And this, I've thought long and hard over the last couple weeks of conversation and that you and I would have. And a lot of it went into hunting and I will be totally honest. I was spoiled rotten because we were hunting private ranches.

Yeah. I was the guide. And so the first ranch we had least, I think we had it for like 22 years. It was a long run. That's unbelievable. Yeah. Great ranch Was it on a general tag?

Yes So for people I'd unpack this a little bit For people who are not necessarily familiar with hunting In Montana at least Yes As residents we're getting an elk and deer tag You can go after the season started

I would like my tag It's going to cost you about 60 bucks You're going to get a It is You're going to get a general deer General elk And with those tags As long as you are on public

land designated for general tag hunting. You need to check the regs. Some of them you can do muley either sex. Some of them it's dough only. Some of them it is buck only during the, and it'll shift during the time of year. Which of that snaps people off every year. Some of them you can shoot a cow elk. Some of them are bowl only. So there's that. And then there are high draw districts, like the brakes, you already mentioned. Yes. Where your general tag doesn't mean shit. And you need to get into a lottery. And I still don't understand how these lotteries work with the bonus points. and all of that stuff. I put it in for me every year

because my buddy is like, hey, just put this and I'm like, fuck, whatever. Every year I've hunted on my, it used to be the 920 tag. I had great success with that. Then they broke it up

into all these different districts, and I don't know what the hell to put in for. But there's two very distinct. So you can have private land that would be usable for a general tag, but also is the possibility

of private land that is not. So it is more complicated, I guess the point I'm trying to get to for the listener, than just going and get your tag and going hunting. Yes, do your research. Yes.

Please. And the optimal situation is private land because it should have less pressure. And the animals have an ungodly sense of where there is pressure and when there is not. Yes, they do. Yes, they do. So you have to remember, this is kind of interesting, and I've put a lot of thought into this. This was 27 years ago. So these ranches were actually cattle ranches.

They were being used as ranch. What came first at that time were the cows that were grazing that ranch. And so you had some years where there was great feed left over, and the cows got moved down and elk would come in. Other years, those ranchers had to use all that feed. And so... Would the elk move in or the other animals move in, and it would be a competition for who was going to get that feed? Well, the cows are always going to get it. You know, the wild animals tend to stay back.

But, you know, summertime, the... It depends how hungry they are. That's true. summertime, you know, everything's up a little higher. But those cows are getting pushed through ranches, you know, doing what they need to do. And there were years that as a guy, I mean, we'd shoot very few elk. You know, it was what it was. About 10 years before we lost at least that ranch got sold.

Here comes the guy with the money. You can say it. It was California. Or was it Ted Turner? No. He owns an ungodly amount of land in Montana. Yes, he does. Yes, he does.

He's not doing that well. I don't, like from a physical perspective? Yeah. He's getting older, but I mean, he has land everywhere. I can remember when he bought the big ranch southwest of Bozeman and how huge that purchase was at the time. So after the ranch got sold, a cows went away. the new owner was at least smart enough with the ranch manager to say,

hey, let's run a hundred head through here just to knock it down for fire protection. And that created just a better environment. I mean, it did not take that long to see animals were there. They're staying. Food water shelter? Yeah. Now, I am a firm believer, and I've hunted enough public ground that, you know, once you start shooting at them, they do move.

They will run away for a day or two before they come back and think it's safe. And if you're smart as a public hunter, you know, hunt those boundaries. Those elk or deer or whatever you're hunting are going to move off and on. So the last ranch we had least, beautiful, beautiful ranch. And we only had half of it, and it was the south half. And it was, as a guide, it was awesome. We saw elk every day. We were in them, you know.

That's awesome. We could be picky, juicy. Yeah. The ranch was still bordered by public. The problem is, and this is where now that I'm outside of the private land, because all the privates getting bought up by the billionaires, Montana has changed. It's, you know, ranching is not ranching anymore when the billionaires are buying everything up.

I think they're buying it for the real estate and not for the ranch. Correct. They just look at the footprint of the ranch. Whether they run cattle or continue to, it's more of a puzzle piece. Yes. Than it is an actual functional ranching capacity. Yeah. And, you know, there's all different mindsets of outfitters and guides.

You know, we were approached to lease the property. They wanted somebody there hunting it. They understood you need to take so many animals. but they didn't want every Tom Dick and Harry out there running around. You know, gates get left open, garbage everywhere. The normal. And that's what kills me on the public land

is we better wake the fuck up if we want to keep it and have it for our kids done because right now it is a mess. A lot of what I've seen, and I couldn't tell you the exact data, but Montana is very unique in the checkered board. So there's a piece of private public. Oh, yeah. Right? And go on to onyx. It'll blow your mind. Yeah. And so I can't remember how many acres of non-usable. So not usable by anybody, but the ranch that

has it locked in. And it's public land, but yet we're screwed. You can't ever get to it. Oh, it's landlocked. Correct. I know exactly. Yeah, these little islands. Yeah. And it's You can get in there if you have a helicopter. We might have to try that. Scott, Ivan. You can't hunt within 24, though. It's one of the regulations. Yeah.

So I just think as hunters, outdoorsmen, all of us need to come together on that issue and get something figured out or we're going to lose it. And it'd be a shame. It truly would be a shame. The best hunt I've had guiding was this year when I took my time. 10-year-old son to the brakes and he shot his first year. That's awesome. Public land, basically spot in stock, and we had a ball. We were out there for two weeks, took a wall tent, just had the time of our lives.

I actually had drawn a bull tag. In the brakes. In the brakes. Did you see any? Never saw one bull. Saw nine cows where there, like 15 days or something. Did you consider that one of the cows may have identified as a bull? I tried really, really hard.

Because these are the things I think about. If you want to play this game, society, I just shot this cow elk. You can't tell me that it doesn't identify as a bowl because it told me that it did. So I think I'm good. Oh, God. I saw no elk this year. My actual shit. Michael was there.

I have a whole roll of pictures of him just sleeping in the backseat, by the way. So he was physically there but mentally checked out, which is his average station in life, by the way. A hell of a hunting partner is what you're telling. Yeah. Yeah, he'd wake up. Where are me? Hand me this gummy bears. Do we have any snacks?

Yeah. How many elk did we see, Michael? I'm pretty sure we saw zero elk. We saw that one hanging in the shed at Timontas place. Yeah, that was really weird. I have thought back on that, though, the genetics of that bowl. and I use that term very loosely, we're off.

I hope that person didn't eat that bowl. Like, the more I have thought about it, oh, dude, it was off. But we were down near the Dillon area. Okay. Which, I have heard, has been hunted hard by a lot of people, and they know that there's a lot of stuff out there. But not only did we not see any elk,

we didn't see any people with elk in the back of their trucks. Yes. It was a thin year, man. I had heard that I've got a buddy with the cabin down south of Dillon and nothing. Well, the guy that we were with, Nelson, just told me, Michael, that I think I got this text from last week, that they were finally seeing elk move there. They had not been pushed out of wherever they normally come from. Right. The weather.

No weather. And so, like, this snow season and this year has been, again, I'm coming up on eight years in July, the thinnest I've ever seen. Yes. But apparently down there too, it just, it has pushed everything outside of its norms. So I'm very – It seems statewide. But now – so the harvest numbers are probably going to be low. Right.

So the competition for the limited food in the winter is going to be higher. I'm very curious to see the impact on herd size and also available tags for the next year. Yeah, I'm with you there. You know, as I was telling one of my kids the other day, I said, the only positive thing about this winter is the animals will be healthier. Yeah. You know, they're not having to paw through three feet of snow to get to it. There is some positive, but then what are the fire is going to do to everything?

Kill them all. Right. So can we win? Smoke brisket just on the side of the road. Yeah, it's, we, I hope that we have a waterfall that just goes from nothing to just never-ending snow. Right. One, I enjoy snowboarding, but two. I don't want the state to burn to the ground.

No, I'm completely with you on that. You know, I like the summer days, blue skies, not the last few years of just smoke after smoke. Yeah. So hopefully something will change there. But right now it's not looking good. It's not. What's been your favorite elk guiding experience

or interaction you've had in those 27 years? Is there something that sticks out of the top of the heap? You know, number one is just the people. I think the hunting community overall, in that dynamic, they're happy to be there. They're happy to be with you out in Mother Nature, just having a kick-ass time doing nothing. You know, besides chasing animals. I have, after 27 years, it's a hell of a lot of stories to remember. You know, there's always good and there's always bad.

one of the best ones I can remember were hiking up a trail early in the morning. I got two guys behind me. They've hunted with me probably six years. You know, we're trucking up there. Fresh snow, probably about two feet. And the moon's out so I can see pretty well. And there's a mountain line sitting in the middle of the trail. And when I stopped, it was within about 10 feet.

Just kind of here I am. And I calmly said to the guy behind me, hey, can you hand me your gun? And he said, what's wrong? And I said, there's a mountain line right here. Yeah. And then it went quiet. And I was like, well, that's kind of weird.

Well, they turned and took off running back down the trail. Buddy's only half the word. Absolutely. Yeah. So at the time, and this is just a funny story. So you just had a stare off with a mountain lion? We did. Or I did.

And honestly, what I did was I just carry a knife on my side. I pulled it out. and I yelled and jumped at the cat. And I scared him and he ran off. I don't know how you would have done in a knife fight with a knife fight. No, I would have got my ass kicked. But it was the only thing I could think of to do. All right.

And I mean, I can appreciate it, but you're lucky it went the way it did. Yeah. And this is a story of my life, whether you believe it or not, I don't give a shit. But it was a funny ass morning. By the time I got those two idiots corralled back up and up the trail, you know, it was way past daylight. The day was shot.

And, you know, it was fun. Probably some of the best times were father's son hunters together. I can remember father's son, we killed two bulls first thing in the morning. And I said, well, what do you guys want to do? He said, do you think we could run to town

to get a six pack of beer and then come back up here and sit and drink a beer. Said, hell of him, let's do it. I mean, odd request, but definitely achievable. Yeah. You know, so it's a great morning. Yeah.

You know, just being with the people. And I will tell you, I had plenty of clients that were assholes that you just, you just wanted to leave out there. Did you ever? You know, back then I could definitely outwalk a lot of guys, and I did leave one in the dark. I knew where it was. That's what I'm talking about. I mean, I don't think I could be a guide. One, I don't know enough about the animals.

But, yeah, if I encountered an asshole, I would do everything possible to make sure they never saw an animal. Yeah. Which probably wouldn't be great for a sustainable business model. No, but they don't know that. Or at least they're not thinking it. In your mind, you can, you know, we're going to go over here. You know, there's nothing over there.

But for the good ones and the good people and the ones that just great camaraderie, those memories will live forever, you know. Do you think you'll keep guiding, even though you lost access to that lease? No. Believe it or not, I guided for one guy for 27 years. Really? Yeah. Where was he from?

He lives south of Livingston. Still lives there. So you were guiding for a local Montana resident? Yeah. Yeah. So he was kind of, he, he was the outfitter. I was one of his guides. For years, there were two guides, and then it came down to just me as the guide.

So pretty loyal in that fact. I don't know many other guides that have guided that long. I know, you know, outfitters have been in business for a long time. 27 years is a long piece. Yeah, it is. And back to that's why I wanted to have my own company. So I could take six to eight weeks off a year and go get paid to do what I love. Yeah.

So kind of full circle there with work and everything. I think the worst thing that I had in my hunting career was my daughter was born on opening day one year. And I don't know if my wife planned it that way or what was going on. And that's the gift that keeps on giving because her birthday is going to be that day every year, pretty much. Yeah. Depending on where it falls on the calendar. It's within that first week. It is.

And I never missed one. How inconsiderate of your daughter. I know. You know. I would hold it against it. I do every day. The one to work in the shop? Yeah, that's awesome.

So, guiding, speaking of her, after she was born, we didn't have insurance. So I walked down to the financial center there at the hospital, and I said, if you give me three weeks, I'll walk back here and paying cash. And the gal, I will never forget, kind of chuckled and was like, okay, see you in three weeks. weeks. And I said, would you just put the entire bill together? I said, I'm going to pay in cash. I don't want, you know, I just need one bill, please. So three or four weeks later when I was done guiding that year, I walked in there and paid her in cash. And she said, I never thought we'd see you again. Since you actually did show back up, we're going to give you another certain percentage off your bill. Yeah, I was going to say, did they at least give you some percentage off of paying you cash?

Yeah. Yeah. So she is my cash cow. Literally. Yeah. Yeah, that's a racket, the old insurance racket. I just had an emergency surgery four weeks ago yesterday, actually, down in Salt Lake City. Yeah, I got totally opened up. I had a blockage of my small intestines. So today was actually the first day I was able to work out post the surgery. I'm still waiting to see if a bill shows up for that one.

Five-day hospital stay, two and a half hours in the OR, a little anesthesiologist, a little surgeon. Yeah. We'll see. They always show up. I think I might be okay with TRICARE. I'm not sure what the out-of-pocket expense is. Yeah, insurance is one that I have to leave alone. It just, it drives me crazy.

Yeah. It does. I don't want to say they're crooks, but it's getting damn close. An argument could be made. I think it's safe to say. Yes. Yeah, it could be for sure. What is your favorite hunting rifle caliber?

I shoot a 300 short meg. Okay. The rifle is, it's a Kimber. It's the Montana edition. It's kind of shorter, lighter. Kicks like a mule. You just got a man up and hold on to it. Do you have a suppressor on that thing?

No. The fuck is wrong with you. Do you like having to wear ear pro? Do you like it when animals run away, when people miss? Keep it simple, stupid. That's my motto. Well, it's a screw on, generally, and then it's just on there. Gentlemen hunt with suppressors.

Gentlemen? Yes. Geez. Which clearly you're not. Not at all. By your own actions. But, yeah, suppressors are the best thing ever. I've been there plenty of times when people miss and the animals are, they just sit there.

See, but you don't have to worry about ear pro. But as a guide. Yeah. they went off right here a few times. Yeah. And by the time I could get my head calm down and not try and kill my Hunter at that point for shooting so close to my head,

I just, I'm not a big fan. A Hunter shot with a suppressor right there? Sorry, not suppressor. Muzzle break. There we go, thank you. Yeah, that's not a gentlemanly thing. No. I had a guy crank off a 50 caliber sniper rifle.

Barrett 50-Cal. and the muzzle break on that is coming back at you at about a 45, which is about where my right year was. Right. My hearing went back to normal about a week later. It fucking rocked me. Oh, it had to. Yeah.

It was... I mean, that 300 about makes you want to fall on the ground. Yeah, that 50, it felt like I actually took a punch in the face. I sat there for a second trying to figure out what the hell it just happened. It was not awesome. No, I couldn't even imagine that. We need to get used to suppressor. So...

Do you own a single one? No, no, actually this last year. Do you drive a manual transmission car? Why even have a car? You should just walk everywhere since you're living in the fucking stone ages. Just run. It's so good. It changes the game.

So in 27 years, the last year, so it would have been 22 was the hunting year. A father's son showed up and they had suppressors. And I thought, okay, I'm going to watch, listen, not say, make a comment about. it because I had not been around him. The sun shot a bowl, and I was probably 10 yards away from him, I still thought it wasn't, I thought it was going to be a lot quieter, to be honest. They're still out. And not all suppressors are created equal, by the way.

And some of them, they're not all engineer to be the same. They're not all baffled the same. Some of them are shorter, some of them are longer. Right. So, yeah, it doesn't, it's not like the movies. God, I wish it was like the movies. Pim, pium, pium, pium, pium. But that's what I had in my head.

Yeah, but it changes it enough that it doesn't sound like a gunshot to the animal. And I think I have seen it enough times where it buys the shooter a second shot, like a follow-up at least, where I would say it's worth the investment. I'm going to let you borrow one. I don't know if that's legal. Probably not. I'm not going to let you borrow one, but after this. next hunting season when you find one, use it, and then it finds its way home, we can have another conversation about it.

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. So here's the funny part of that story. So we sneak down this ridge. We're on these bulls. There's about 16 bulls. I said the biggest ones are in the center or whatever.

So I get the sun out there about 10 yards. And the dad looks at me. He goes, which one do you want me to shoot? And I said, just be ready. I said, he's going to shoot. Bulls are going to fall down. They don't know we're here. They won't run off.

And you guys got suppressors. Yeah. And he's like, okay. I said, as soon as he shoots, we'll just scoot right here, you pick a bull out, boom. He shoots, bull falls down, and the rest of those bulls ran so fast in the opposite direction. I just kind of sat there and started laughing, and I was like, that did not work out. Were they in, like, a valley? We were kind of in a very large open basin.

Okay. You got to take into account the sound bouncing on off all those different directions. There's a lot that goes into it. They're not magic. Like I said, I wish they were like the movies. I have a buddy of mine actually who has experiences of shooting at elk, hitting the first one, and then somebody with them, they ran towards the shooter because they didn't know which direction it was coming from. So there's variables in there for sure. It's not a magic tool.

No, no. But like you said, the TV has us all believing. it is the magic tool. Indeed. Indeed. What's your favorite part about living in Montana? Really just being able to get out and enjoy what is here. I mean, it's not right out our back door.

But, you know, we can be on the lake or down the river or up in the mountains. 10, 15 minutes. Yeah. If that, sometimes. Yeah. And that's what really drives me overall is just having the freedom. If I want to go fishing one day or go for a hike or just go do whatever, you know, I hate crowds. I hate driving with a lot of other people that are trying to get in my space.

It just doesn't work. Fortunately, I think the die is cast a little bit. The show Yellowstone hasn't probably helped when it comes to people having an interest. But here's the reality. Montana belongs to us all. What would you say to somebody, though, considering moving to Montana? Because it is beautiful. We can't avoid that.

It is wide open spaces. We can't avoid that. If you're into the things that Montana offers, whether it's from an activity or a freedom perspective, not that we have more freedom than other states, but states that lean a certain way politically run their local governments and state governments. in that particular direction. So for people who are aligned with the way that Montana currently is, there's nothing we can do to stop them.

But what would you say to them before they make that move? Wait until the first winter. Like today. Yeah. Rent before you build. I mean, I think that's actually a good philosophy anywhere you would want to go. Go at the time where it's going to suck the most. Absolutely.

And at least check it out. Yeah. Yeah. We all got to agree. I mean, living here, the summer, fall, spring, it's amazing. I actually love the winter, too. I do not like it when it is 33 below. Correct.

But a nice powder day. Like, you know, I want some of my favorite snowboarding days are the inversion layers. Yes. Whereas you're on the ski lift and you're going through the fog and then you come out on top and it is crystal clear bluebird. My favorite is probably like a Wednesday because these fuckers have to work. I'm joking, obviously. But like midweek where it's less and you're off, boundaryed by your imagination.

And I actually love the winner. And for everybody, it's funny. I hear people all the time trying to scare people away from Montana. There's polar bears that come walking down Main Street. Every Tuesday, they let them out. They're supposed to eat one Californian. You know, it's your dick's going to freeze. If you have to pee out here, I'm like,

I don't know why anybody would say that. and I don't know if it's been tested, but I have found, if you buy a nice jacket, a nice pair of outdoor gear, you're going to be okay. Yeah, absolutely. I think for me, the older I'm getting, the less I actually like winter, like the last three days that we had. Yeah. You know, I love the thought of waking up Christmas morning and there's fresh snow on the ground. Not this year.

No, not one bit. Got screwed there. It's a nice green Christmas this year. Actually more of a browner palette, I would say. Yeah, ours was quite browning. We don't have the landscape quite done yet. So, of course, I got reminded about that. But, you know, it can be a rough environment.

You just got to be prepared. But, you know, my wife and I are flying out Thursday for Cabo, and I'm just super excited to get the hell out of here. Are you going to fish while you there? Damn right. God. I'll send you some pictures. I mean, you can.

I'm just going to drag him to the garbage bin in my email. It's lost on me. Here's the thing, though. With my background, voluntary time on small watercraft is not happening. I'm just not going to do it. All right. You do have the perfect excuse for that. We were down in Costa Rica.

My wife and my middle son learned how to scuba dive in Hawaii. So we were in Costa Rica. We were going to continue. I think my wife got her advanced certification on this dive. It was like an hour boat ride. small boat. I'm sitting there. I have like my tourist straw hat on.

Choppy water. The dude driving it decided that the throttle setting was the throttle setting, regardless of the sea state. And it's hilarious to hear my wife tell the story. Water is just gushing over the top and landing essentially on me. And I had sunglasses on it. In my head, I'm like, why am I paying to have this happen to me? This is fucking ridiculous.

And she said she was just looking at me going, well, This is the last time we do this. Which I would be willing to do it some more because I love her so much. But avoid it like the plague is my theory. Small watercraft, voluntary, no. Yeah. You know, there's two different types of fishing for me. There's the Montana fishing, which really isn't that exciting.

My son eats it up, you know, small mouth bass and stuff like that. But the ocean, there's big shit down there. And you never know what you're. might get. The ocean is unforgiving to a degree why I don't understand why people don't have more respect for it. Why, I agree with that one. Yeah. It will, it will chew you up and spit you out. And not even think about it. No, even people who are highly capable. There was two seals that were I think at this point they had been declared dead. They were doing a boarding in Somalia. From a small boat, they were going to hook and climb, climb up a ladder and do a shipboard.

One of the guys slipped and fell, and the word that I have received on it is that he might have hit his head on the boat. And minimum fighting unit in the sealed community is two. So a guy who hadn't slipped and who likely would not have fallen off, jumped in to try to assist a person. And I don't think they've found either of them. And we spent a lot of time in the water, training, developing currency and competency. and it doesn't care. It'll fucking kill you. No.

No. There's no love there. No. It just doesn't care. The real world just doesn't care. Yeah. It's not our world. Yeah.

By any means. It's the world of people who identify as cats. That's what I've been told. Mr. Turner, I've had you away from your daughter for two hours. I want to get you back to her. Sure. Any particular closing thoughts?

I mean, we've talked about a bunch of stuff. And again, the reason I wanted to sit down talk with you is I'm fascinated by people's backgrounds and their experiences. It's also always nice to get to know another local person as well. Yeah, absolutely. You know, number one, thanks for having me. I never thought this would be really anything on my list of things to do, but, you know, shout out to John for setting it up. I appreciate it, buddy. I'm with you. You know, life's an adventure. I like to meet people and hear people's stories. along with, you know, I don't have a lot of close friends because I don't need the extra bullshit in my life.

I've determined that people suck. Yeah, they do. They really do. You got to find the ones that you enjoy spending time with. I've also found that some of them suck, too. Well, they can. Yeah. Yeah.

Too many margariters or something at the pool, yeah. Just weird, weird. Human beings are sloppy. Yes. And I'm talking about myself in that as well, too. You know, I don't claim to be perfect at all, but. Yeah, I've been shocked a few times. Like, fuck.

Didn't see that coming. It makes you want to not be around other human beings. Agreed. And going to the woods is a great place to get away from most of them. Yeah, but I actually, I think COVID, if anything, highlighted one thing. As a species, I don't think we're meant to exist alone. Right. But I also am not sure we're meant to exist in large numbers.

Agreed. So it's a tough balance. You lose a little bit of faith in humanity every time something like that weird happens, especially with a close friend. You're like, well, fuck this. Friends are a thing of the past, but I just, I don't know. Maybe that's the cost. I don't know. But it's rough.

It is. Short story real quick, when we were out in the brakes hunting, there was a guy older gentleman sitting on the back of his truck smoking a cigar and I rolled the window down and we're in the side by side. And I said, you okay? You said, oh, yeah, I'm just out here, you know, looking at my grass. And I said, oh, you didn't graze it this year. Anyway, so we struck up a conversation. He finally asked, where are you boys from? I said, Polson.

And he said, thanks for coming out here. He goes, there's no Montana boys. And I'm using that term. Yeah, Liley. Any Montana locals hunting out there. And as he said that, here comes a truck with Washington plates. And he said, all I see out here is people from Washington. How that are they getting the brakes tags?

What are we missing out on here? Well, I think. I think that's, they're out there on that general deer tag. I did talk with like four other guys that had bull tags. Some of the areas of the brakes, I forgot, you can use that general. It's the elk ones that are hard to draw. Yes. And so I did meet like four other guys that had the same elk tag.

I had, none of them had seen an elk. I had heard they were all down on private land. So down towards the end of the unit, which was pretty much all. private land. Again, I really can't have a dog in that fight because I've hunted private land. Yeah. Not all Montana people are awesome. I have a short story for you. Yeah. Have you ever heard of Under the Big Sky? You know where this is going, don't you, Michael? Under the Big Sky is a music concert that has held up here in, what would that be? Michael Whitefish? It's kind of actually weird. It's in between Whitefish and Columbia Falls. I think it's closest to Whitefish.

but white fish adjacent if you will okay a buddy of mine runs security up there somehow and i am very susceptible to try and help my friends and so one year he said do you guys want to work security with us i'm like in my head i'm like no i'd rather brush my teeth with a fucking 12 gauge than work security because what it ended up meaning is looking at people's wristbands and saying whether or not they can come in or the areas they can go in. And so at the second day, you know, people are getting after it. It's a music festival. It's hot as fuck.

The line to the beer cart or the cocktail cart, which you're paying probably $14 to $16 a beer and $30 for a cocktail, was long and never ending. And so people stopped wanting to wait to go to the porta-potties. So they were just pissing everywhere that they wanted to, which, I won't stand for it. So I started ejecting public urinators because I know the person who actually owns the property. He asked us to do so. I'm like, Roger that. So I see a dude, move a piece of this section of fence, go walk two feet past it,

piss all over this guy's property, which was beyond where he was supposed to be and come back. I was waiting for him. And you know what? he told me that made it okay, I'm a third generation Montana. I'm not like one of those fucks that's here from California. And I looked at him. Oh. Hey, I'm from California. Why don't you get the fuck out of here? When guys use that excuse. I'm telling you right now, the biggest threat to Montana is actually Montana's himself. Yes. Which is, I think, almost always the case when you look at places where it's like, oh, it's these people doing this. Uh,

I'll use the second amendment, and I'm using this term broadly, crew. They're actually the biggest threat to the second amendment. Agreed. There's reason has lost the conversation a lot there, and it becomes this dogmatic ideology. Yeah, for all the Montanans who, especially up here who bitch about a lot of the things and the transient population, Calispell is just fucking falling apart. And it's like, I just watched you flick your cigarette. out of your vehicle and bitch about how it's the people out of town that are destroying where you live.

How about, here's a revolutionary idea, you go, fuck yourself. I actually agree with this. Here's a fucked up part. I loved growing up in Bozeman. I cannot stand Bozeman right now. You got to go to the right places. So my choice is just not to go through or go to Bozeman. Or if I do, I just drive through.

That's my choice because I have my memory of what Bozeman used to be. Yeah. And you're right. Everybody thinks they're a fucking local and it's driving me crazy. Just because you have a hat that says local doesn't mean shit to me. I actually think it means you're not local. They just, they ran out of the embroidery for the not. They're the only ones that are going to buy it.

Yeah. It's like a guy who wears tap out gear or like the gold macromay affliction. It's like, oh, tell me you don't know how to fight without telling me you don't know how to fight. you've got all the gear yeah no fuck all right yeah how do we get on that topic let's get you back to your daughter man thank you for taking the time and you thank you of course