Cleared Hot - Powered By BRCC - Surviving Storms: Empathy, Healing, and Self-Care in Trying Times

Episode Date: June 2, 2023

How do you find the path to navigate life's tumultuous storms?  One step at a time. This episode explores strategies for emerging from a divorce as a stronger, more resilient person and shedding light on how to provide unwavering support to a friend experiencing the imminent loss of a spouse due to cancer. In addition, suggestions to comfort your own spouse, alleviating her fears of potential future loss, as we highlight the importance of empathy, communication, and reassurance in these circumstances. Ending on a lighter note, I'll share my personal coffee preferences, highlighting the significance of finding joy and comfort in life's simple pleasures, even amid hardship.  Sign up for the new G14 newsletter here: https://www.clearedhotpodcast.com/exclusive Check out the newest Cleared Hot Gear here: https://shop.clearedhotpodcast.com/  

What's going on, everybody? Here we are again. Friday episode. No sponsor for today's episode because it's a Friday episode. Actually, I take that back. I mean, all these episodes are brought to you by Black Rifle Coffee. I'm just not going to do an ad read today. Today's episode is brought to you by you, the listener.

I appreciate people tuning in and spreading the word in reaching out because it helps me with things like today when I can actually answer your Q&A without people reaching in with questions. What hell would I have to talk about? I don't even know. I feel like I'd find something. something, but you never know. And that's it. Busy week coming up here next week. Got an awesome episode on Monday with Earl Plumley, a medal of honor recipient from Afghanistan.

Heading back on Joe's podcast on Tuesday and then another one in the Austin area on Wednesday. So a full week. What else is going on? That's it. As always, thank you for the support. You guys are getting a first look at the new T-shirt. I'm getting ready to launch. Probably by the time this episode comes out, if I'm even remotely doing my job will. whatever you do don't go to the black raffle coffee site and look for one that looks exactly like this but just says black rifle coffee instead of cleared hot podcast if if you were hypothetically to find that it would be a coincidence and not intentional whatsoever um but yeah if you want to grab one of these things grab one if you don't and fucking don't here we go

follow out Friday let's get into it I'm looking at danger close now all right welcome back it's Friday. I got three questions for today. Two of them are a little bit deeper, darker, if you will. One of them is a total layup talking about coffee. So we're going to go into the whole little bit, come out of that thing and end on some suggestions on how you should make your coffee. Keeping it kind of short. Middle Sun graduates high school. Saturday, unbelievable, full weekend. Dick Broom Actual is flying into Calispollo in the next few hours. So we're going to get this thing wrapped up and just get everybody off onto their weekend. With which I hope you all enjoy it. Here we go. Question one.

My question involves a topic you've touched on at times. The big D. Not dick, people, divorce. My wife came to me about two weeks ago and told me she wanted to divorce after falling into a depressed state for nearly a week. She has since been uncharacteristically emotional and has had a very short temper with everyone in her life. She's since made it abundantly clear multiple times. She has no intention of staying married to me. For background, she and I met five years ago while working for the same.

same fire department. We began dating about a year after and got married the following year. We have had numerous disagreements and plenty of differing opinion over the years and have engaged in the divorce conversation a few times, but we haven't talked about it since 2021 when we discovered she was pregnant with our son. The last time it was brought up, I begged her to go to marriage counseling with me, but she maintained that she wouldn't go with me until I went to counseling for my own issues first. That bred a sense of resentment. towards her because it made me feel like she looked at me and my beliefs as the problem and wouldn't take any responsibility for anything on her end. Since our son was born nearly a

year ago, I decided I would just suffer through our differences instead of considering divorce again, which in turn made my temper shorter and caused me to shut down at times instead of risking arguments. Our sex life has been nearly non-existent in the past year. There has been no physical romance, which I thrive off to feel loved, and we have spent almost no quality time together. We both have worked the traditional 24-48 schedule, I'm assuming that means 24 on 48 off, which combined with off-duty training, both of us picking up extra shifts for money, and both of us volunteering in multiple different capacities at our church, we have spent far less than a third of our married life physically with each other. In hindsight, I recognize that I could have done more

on my end, but deep down I feel I have neglected, but deep down I feel I am, but deep down I have felt neglected and empty. Damn, that sentence fucked me up. In the past two weeks, I've set up a counseling and I've set up counseling, and despite being an emotional wreck myself, have been trying my hardest to pick up the slack everywhere to provide her a sense of relief. So now, here I sit, facing divorce. I don't want it, but my wife tells me that she believes neither of us are truly happy and the only solution is divorcing and moving on. My question is this. How do I navigate divorce and move on to become a better human being? Sorry for the length and thank you for your time. Man, not my favorite topic. I have a data point of one on this, my own personal experience.

But I have some thoughts. So I think that there's essentially two ways that people come to the realization that they should get a divorce or that they want to get a divorce. The one I think is far less likely. I'll begin with that. And that's when both parties have the ability to mutually agree that the relationship itself is neither healthier beneficial for either of them or hopefully not, but oftentimes the kids that are involved as well.

And somehow they're able to navigate that without having any level of hatred or despise or resentment towards the other party. I've seen it happen. I haven't seen it happen much. What I've seen happen more often than not, and I would assume that this is more likely the norm than the anomaly, is that one party in the divorce comes to that conclusion on their own for whatever reason. that they may come to that conclusion and they inform their partner in whatever way they may inform them, meaning essentially one person once and is spearheading the divorce. I think that is far more common. And I think commonly what comes with that is a level of shock and surprise, perhaps, for the person on the other side,

a feeling of maybe disbelief, a feeling of betrayal. Whereas one person's belief is that they are moving forward for the benefit of everybody involved to include, themselves and probably even both parties. And the other one lands on the other side of that and has the opposite beliefs. And I don't think right or wrong, good or bad. I just think a lot of the times that that's the way that the cookie crumbles. And it feels to me like you're falling into the latter category. So she was the one who is initiating this and seems to be pushing it. And you are the one who is now dealing with that decision and it has left you in a place where you're wondering, how the hell do I go on from here?

And I don't think you're alone in those feelings by any stretch of the imagination. What I'll say is this, you know, going back into your email, the affection, the sex life, what it turned into post the birth of your son. I mean, I would say give your wife a little bit of grace on that. I mean, the changes that go on inside of a woman's body. I'm talking about at a hormonal level, let alone a physical level with childbirth. I don't think there's a template for what you should expect after that. I think you should give your significant other as much grace as humanly possible.

Now, having said that, I also think that you should be very open and honest with your partner. And your partner should know and understand what is important to you, what is meaningful to you. Not everybody. You described it. You feel you thrive and you feel loved off of physical. Romance. And I don't, what is it, the five love, love languages, that book. I was about to say, I haven't, you know, I don't know why. I was about to say something negative about that book. I've never read it. I don't know. I guess I just hear the love language thrown around quite a bit. And it's probably very true.

You have a pretty good understanding of what it is for you to thrive and feel loved. And I hope that you communicated that to your wife. If you didn't communicate that to your wife, don't operate off the assumption that she understands that. And I guess what I'm what I'm saying is to go into this even more, you mentioned that you were going to suffer through your differences instead of considering divorce again or risking an argument. I personally believe that that is the single fastest path to resentment on either one side of the equation or both sides of the equation. I think that open, honest communication is one of the most important frameworks for a successful relationship. There shouldn't be a topic that you are unwilling to talk about. There's going to be plenty of topics

that might be uncomfortable to talk about. Some of them might be contentious. Some of them might be considered a little bit argumentative. But by not confronting those things, all you're doing is building the castle of resentment. And you're doing it one brick at a time, one minute, one hour, one day, one month, and one year. And before you know it, what you're going to have is an impenetrable fortress. And you're going to sit there asking yourself, well, how the fuck did this happen? You know, how could this person do this? And the reality is both parties need to kind of look in the mirror and probably realize

that they were putting bricks on top of that foundation together. And it became what it became. How do you avoid that or what can you do? I mean, there's obviously no perfect recipe for any of this. What's one of the paths to. hopefully not building those bricks, smash them into pieces, smash them into pieces by bringing them out, talking about them, disassembling them, and making sure that those open lines of communication are there. Because I'm telling you right now, I don't have a crystal ball, obviously.

But here's what I would hypothesize what would happen if, let's say your wife didn't say these things to you, that she didn't tell you that she wanted a divorce, but you had things that you wanted to talk about and from your perspective on your side of the relationship, you are not feeling appreciated or fulfilled. Had you not said something and you decided to suffer through this, in another year, you would have probably wanted to write another email and the language would have been slightly more aggressive and about in your feelings, not about necessarily your significant other, but how vehemently you feel about your situation. And then another year would go on and another year would go on and another year would go on and then I think your message would

change over time. Well, I don't want to be in this relationship, but I'm going to stay in this relationship for my son. And to me, I hate receiving messages like that and I do because I don't believe personally staying in an unhealthy relationship actually benefits anybody, even though oftentimes children are used as the excuse for that. Well, we have to stay together for our kids. It's like, This isn't the fucking 1940s. And quite frankly, I'm not sure why they said that they needed to do that in the 1940s. I'm not advocating for split homes. I do believe that a cohesive family unit is the most powerful thing that you can provide for your kids.

But if the husband and wife are unhealthy and they're unhappy and they are setting a toxic environment for the kids to turn around and write an email and say, and not that you do this, obviously. But people do this to me. do this and send them to me, I should say, all the time. I've even received emails that say literally this. I fucking hate my spouse. I hate my life. I want to get out of this marriage. The only reason I'm staying is for my kids. Like when it gets to that point, who are you lying to? And the answer is yourself. You know that the path is going to suck. You know it might have some short-term damage for everybody involved. But you're avoiding it. And again, I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about people that send those emails. And what I would want is for you to not get to that place.

How do people get to that place? Like I said, one minute, one day, one year at a time. It seems like it builds over time. And I think a lot of that is poor communication. Again, there shouldn't be a single topic that you are unwilling to talk about. You know, there's obviously time and place to talk about certain things. And you could also set boundaries when you're having discussions. If it gets to an emotional point where emotion is starting to rule the day as opposed to logic, put a pin in it and come back. You don't have to continue into an argument if an argument begins. Figure out where you are. Put a pin in that thing.

Come back. Let cooler heads come back to the table and then continue the conversation. You know, it's the situation you describe where you've only been physically next to each other. and by that I mean physically able to spend time with each other about a third of your relationship. It's probably abnormal for anybody who doesn't come from the world that you are operating in. I think for any first responder, law enforcement military, what you're describing is, I don't want to say it's normal, but it's not incredibly abnormal. So it can be done, but there is a reason why those communities can,

carry a divorce rate that is higher than the statistical average across the United States, which unfortunately, I believe, is now over 50%. I have heard numbers from the seal community upwards of 75% of relationships. And anecdotally, I don't, it's like, did I feel or see that when I was in? I don't know. But unfortunately, I could see it actually being true. Is it impossible? No.

Does it take a special kind of person? Does it take special kind of people? Yes. Even if you have that special kind of person, do you have to prioritize the other one and the opportunities and the moments that present themselves? Yes, I believe that you do. I don't think any relationship,

whether you have a third of the time to spend with each other or 100% of the time to spend with each other, is going to survive, let alone thrive, if you don't prioritize the other person as often as possible. And I'm not saying do every single thing that they want to do, be at their beck and call, not push back if they say something that you don't agree with.

I just mean making sure that you prioritize and value the time that you do have. Don't let it slip through your fingers. So then it becomes meaningless. Make it meaningful. Make the other person know without a shadow of a doubt how much. they mean to you and how much that you love them. How are you going to accomplish that? Well, I guess let's go back to the five love languages. I don't fucking know what they all are. But whatever your partner's love language is or whatever they prioritize or find to be important, make sure that they

understand how you feel about them and they understand how much you appreciate them by leaving no doubt through their love language or your actions or the things that you do together, how you feel. If you don't do that, I don't care if you have 100% of the time to spend with each other. It's about what you do with that time, not how much you have. And if you don't value it and you don't do those things, I think eventually all paths will lead to the place where you are at right now. So I have not answered a single portion of your question yet because really the first part was giving me context. The second part was the question. How do I navigate divorce and move on to become a better human being?

That's a fucking tough question. I don't know if the divorce itself is going to make you a better human being. I think it presents for you an opportunity to work inwardly more than externally. And that work will net you on the other end of that as a better person. But that's not, you know what I mean? It's corollary to the divorce. It's not causal, right? So they're connected, but they're very separate.

There's plenty of opportunity to come through a divorce and leave and end and come out of that a massive steaming pile of shit. And I think it depends on what you choose to do with yourself. And for clarity, everybody listening to this, you don't have to wait for potential divorce or an actual divorce process itself to do any of these things. You could choose to put this internal reflective work on your plate and work your way through it at any given time. And, you know, maybe your life and relationships would be better if you did.

so proactively instead of reactively. Having said that, my best advice or my biggest piece of advice for you when going through this divorce, especially since you have a child together, is that to do your absolute best, to remember that this person is going to be a part of your life for the rest of your life, because she is the mother of your son. whether you end up at the end of this loving this person having some level of respect or absolutely hating them it doesn't really matter she is going to be the mother of your son for the rest of your life there will be times when you're going through this process where you're going to want to lash out and my the single biggest piece of advice that i have for you

is do not do that if you want to send a snarky email type it out but don't send it Or if you're going to send it, send it to your lawyer and don't send it directly to your spouse. If you are going to be having the ability to communicate, either phone call or text messaging, and you want to be snarky. Let's start with the text messaging. And you just get to one of these moments where you're like, you know what? I'm going to tell this person exactly what I think of them. Write the text out.

Read it and then delete it. It's not worth your time. It's not going to have anything but a negative consequence. And as far as verbal communication, you know, people act like when you pick up a call, you know, it's like, oh, hello. And the call starts to go absolutely south. Getting to the point where you're yelling and screaming at each other, that's a choice. End it before it gets to that point. Resist at every opportunity, the desire, if it should rear its head, to be petty.

And what will help with that is the realization that she is the mother of your son. And imagine, you know, 15 years from now, if you do want to have a shitty voicemail or a shitty text or a shitty email, just imagine how you would feel if your son read it in about 15 years when they had a much better processing ability. What would they think of you? If the answer is, man, I'd be really worried if my son or anything. anybody that I cared about was able to get their hands on this type of communication, consider not sending it. Work on yourself. You've already talked about finding counseling. You know, here's the deal, though.

Don't tell yourself that you're going to counseling for your current wife. Go to counseling for yourself. You mentioned it in here. I've set up counseling and despite being an emotional wreck for myself, I've been trying my hardest to pick up the slack everywhere to provide her a sense of relief. If she is driving forward with a divorce, focus on yourself and your own sense of relief. Obviously be there for all of the things that would be required as the father of your child. Step up. Do everything absolutely possible for that.

I would dedicate the rest of your time working on yourself so you can be the best version of yourself and therefore the best father to your son. I think it's a great thing that you're willing to verbalize. You know, you're trying to pick up slack and provide a sense of relief for her. But ask yourself this, is she doing the same thing for you? You don't need to expect her to, but just honestly and objectively ask that question. You sound like you are going above and beyond. And again, I'm only getting your side of the story. So who knows what she would say about that or what she's doing on her side.

But if you're going above and beyond and that's not being reciprocated and you're doing that for somebody else, I feel like at this point and where you are and if the divorce is going to go through, your energy is misplaced. replace that energy on yourself. Rebuild yourself. You know, for me, one of the biggest things that helped and going through the divorce process was having a physical outlet. Exercise doesn't provide the same things emotionally for everybody, but I think, you know, physiologically, probably no negative consequences to exercise, unless you use it as a coping mechanism and a crutch and you don't actually work through anything else and you find this escape. And now all of a sudden you're like, well, I guess now what I do is I run 500 mile races and I can avoid all of my problems because I'm always running.

Not that I have any issue with running or 500 mile races, but I think those are much better served if those are like a desired end state and something that's inspirational and aspirational versus a coping mechanism that you lose yourself in and never actually work on the issues at hand. So I would get a very clean and established exercise routine. I would get into a very repetitive schedule of talking. with somebody from mental health perspective, and I don't care if you feel like you need it or not. Going through a divorce, you are going to need people who are not directly involved in your divorce

process, who are not likely directly involved in your social circle or family that you can talk to. There is just shit that you're going to want to talk to people about, but you're not going to want to talk to people that you really know or people that you're worried that may judge you, or maybe know the other side of the relationship equation. They know both parties. You need to have a third party. You need to have somebody that you can talk to that is an expert on how human beings navigate situations like this that can help set up for you a structure and system for your own success. It is probably one of the most helpful things that I did. That paired with the physical activity still made the nearly two-year divorce process that I went through was 100% the lowest point in my life.

It was a point in my life where I had the lowest amount of self-esteem, the lowest feeling of self-worth. Having that outlet and physical and the ability to talk to somebody, it helped keep me on the rails. And I think that it could do the same for you. And I think that's really all that you can focus on. If the other person in the relationship is going to go and pursue the divorce, you can't control their actions. Don't waste a second of time trying to do that. spend all your time focusing on what you can control, which is yourself, and you can control where you allocate your energy in time. Like I said, baseline, do everything you can as a father.

Make sure all of that is taken care of. And I would devote the rest of your time to either your occupation or being very reflective and introspective and working on yourself. And I think you'll come out of that, the better version of yourself that you're looking for and a better father for your son as well. So hopefully that helps. Question number two. Might as well make it even darker. So long story semi-short, one of my wife's closest friends beat breast cancer several years ago, then had some form of cancer, come back in her spine, and currently has a tumor on her brain is under hospice care. Well, we knew she would eventually pass because of the cancer coming back in her spine, and the brain tumor was unexpected, at least as far as I know. Her and her husband have three kids, five, seven, and ten.

This lady is truly the kindest, most caring, genuine person I know, and I believe she has lived a life she can be proud. of in her 34 years, though everyone, especially her kids and husband, want her to live for another 70. My question is, how the fuck do you comfort someone in this situation? How do I comfort my wife knowing her friend is days or weeks at most from passing? And the husband knowing his wife and mother of his children is about to pass. My wife is having a harder time dealing with this because we have a one-year-old and she keeps thinking, what if she was in the situation leaving our child behind. That's a tough email, and these are tough questions. I'll go backwards. You know, what can you, how could you help your wife? I'd say the number one thing is to listen, right?

Your wife thinking about these things, especially if this is happening to one of her close personal friends, of course she's going to be spending time thinking about that. Is it necessarily a rational thought? I don't know, and that's kind of irrelevant, but it's definitely emotionally based. And that's okay. I think the best thing that you can do is listen and maybe don't even try to talk her out of feeling that way. Allow her to till that dirt until she feels like it's been tilled enough and then move

on from there. I think the best thing that you can do in this situation is listen and perhaps interject the idea in some point in time that none of us know how long that we have. so it's more a matter of doing what we can and as much as humanly possible with the time that we do have as opposed to sitting there and staring at the ceiling fan in the middle of the night wondering how much time we have left one no control over the other total and complete control squeeze every fucking drop out of life humanly possible I think that's all we can try to do because tomorrow we might make up and it might be over. None of us really know.

How do you comfort your friend? I would say by being there. You can't step into their shoes. You're never going to know how they're feeling in their lowest moments. You're never going to truly understand the range of emotions and grief and anger and frustration. So don't try to. Try to be the best friend you can be. Be available. But don't be overwhelming and overbearing, right? You want to be like a catcher's mid. You want to be able to catch them and be there to catch them when they need you. But you don't want to be a lead blanket that is completely smothering them and not allowing them to have some ups and downs, which they're going to need to do. I mean, like, I'm sorry. There's no way that you're going to go through this and just be a baseline.

You're going to have some absolute dog shit days. And that's okay. And you're going to have some days where you're going to be angry at yourself because you're happy and you feel like you shouldn't be. And that's okay. I don't think you should try to stop either of those things. I think over time what really happens is the amplitude of the sine wave, it shallows. And you go back a little bit more towards your baseline.

And as a friend, I think all that you can do is to try to be there. When the phone rings, pick it up. If they need something from you, deliver on it. Reach out to them, but again, don't necessarily be overbearing. Don't be upset if when you reach out, you don't hear back every single time. Don't be upset when you text. You don't get a response back every single time. But you and your wife have the ability as a team to help this man and this woman.

I mean, I think the best thing that you can do for the woman who is in a hospice and obviously going to pass is to make sure that when she goes to whatever comes next from this, she leaves with the understanding of how impactful and important she was in your lives and the lives of her kids. Make sure she leaves knowing those things. Make sure she leaves hearing everything that you needed to and wanted to say to her. because I can tell you from personal experience, not saying things when you had the chance and then losing the opportunity to in the future fucking sucks.

So take that opportunity. Beyond that, be the best support network possible. Yeah, your friends are going to have days where you're going to need to wrap your arms around him. And your friend's going to have days where you're going to have to let him be and everything in between. It's not going to be easy for you. At times you might feel upset or disrespected or pushed away. And that's okay because it's not about you. It's actually about your friend.

And for people that you truly care about, you should be able to absorb those things and remember why you're doing what you're doing. And you get through it. It's going to suck. But you're going to get through it. And I feel terrible for the woman, obviously, her husband and her kids. and I'll leave you with this. Never stop telling her kids

who their mother was and how much she loved them and the impact she had in the world around her. All right. Should we lighten it up a little bit? Should we get the fuck out of the gallows, out of the fucking darkness for a little bit? I think so.

I'm ready for that. Let's talk about coffee. I would like to know how you prefer your coffee. As I know you have purchased a pourover set for when you're on the road. How do you take your morning cup coffee at home. And what method of brewing do you prefer or use? If you aren't drinking cleared hot coffee, what are you choosing? I see many guests and yourself enjoying what appears to be a

cold brew with cream or some other dairy-like addition on the podcast. Do you have a go-to coffee or drink for your guests? You mean like this one? My preferred, if I have the choice for it, is going to be a cold-brew coffee for two reasons. One, it is cold, which means I can drink it faster because for me, I have never been in love with the taste of coffee, but I do like that it wakes me up. So I drink for effect, not necessarily for taste. And in cold brew, one, there's a little bit more caffeine in it, but two, I don't have to wait for it to cool down so I can guzzle it down my throat. So those are the two reasons that I choose that one. And I do add a little bit of heavy cream or half and half. And I know some people like, oh my God, how could you add milk of any kind of your

coffee? It's like, you know what? I don't judge you, right? I don't judge the kind of coffee that you like to drink. I don't judge the fact that you like to have a choke ball in your mouth while you're getting fucking pegged on the bottom bunk with Michael. You know, like that's your choice. I might make fun of it, but it's your choice. So you live your life the way that you want to live it. And I'll drink my fucking coffee the way that I want to drink it.

Now, I digress. What if I can't get cold brew? I make a straight pour over. And to me, again, it doesn't really matter the type of bean, but I, prefer to grind it fresh. I'm not a savage like Evan and Denver who has to weigh and measure their coffee. I eyeball it because I can't tell the difference when people weigh and measure it versus when I eyeball it. I do heat the water to about 205 degrees based off of a recommendation from Evan.

So I have an electronic kettle. And I do a simple pour over. So cold brew first, then pour over. And if that doesn't work, I mean, I'll just make a normal drip coffee. And again, I just make sure that the beans are fresh and I grind them up and I put them in there. That I actually can take the difference in. If you have beans that are not fresh, God, it just kind of sucks. You can taste the staleness of it for sure.

And then on the road, I do have a pourover set. They're fellow F-E-L-L-O-W, a brand that I have no relationship whatsoever. But I think makes really cool stuff. They make like a double glass-walled vessel that has a little pourover thing that goes on top of it. You can find him at Blackcrafel coffee. That's actually where I bought mine from. One of them is pretty small. It looks bigger than it is in the picture, but it's like a single cup.

And the other one does about two cups. But it comes with filters. You know, so with that, you're going to need a grinder on the road in a way to boil water. I have a battery bank in the baronco so I can just plug in the electric kettle. But a jet boil or any type of, you know, propane stove can accomplish the same thing. But that's it. That's what I prefer. On the hot coffee side, I, you know, probably like a latte in the winter.

That's what I'll drink. I don't know why. You know, it's just what I like. I like what I like and people can like what they like. What else? I think that's it. Yeah. How about we go enjoy our weekend?

I'm going to go watch my son graduate high school, hang out with Dick Broom Actual, maybe do a quick Friday episode with him. Nobody really knows what's going to happen. He's moving up here in like a month. So perhaps it's going to become Fridays with Vaughn. You never know. Maybe I suspect he's going to be bored out of his mind. So he's probably going to spend time.

at the coffee shop, giving people advice on coffee, and I'm just going to throw this out there, because I know he's going to end up doing that. If you see my dad at the coffee shop, please understand he doesn't know fucking anything about coffee. So any advice he gives you, take it with a grain of salt. He likes hot chocolates. If he gives you advice on hot chocolate, maybe take it. Maybe don't. I don't know. But just when he's telling you about the perfect pour-over roast, he's either repeating something. that he heard somebody else say or doing something that my dad is very good at. And that's just purely making shit up. And we'll leave you with that.