Cleared Hot - Powered By BRCC - The Fight Against Human Trafficking - with Nic McKinley

Episode Date: September 1, 2023

Today we are going to dive into the world of counterintelligence and counter-human trafficking with Nic McKinley. From his time as an Air Force Pararescueman in U.S. Special Operations to his pivotal role within the CIA, McKinley's life is a testament to service, bravery, and commitment. What happens when a seasoned operative comes face to face with the grim reality of child trafficking? McKinley shares the compelling journey of founding DeliverFund, his passionate endeavor to end human trafficking in the U.S., the challenges and successes along the way, and their latest technological development that allows parents to engage in the fight. Download the Deliverfund App here: https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id6448926293?pt=125436411&ct=ClearedHot&mt=8 Support Deliverfund:  Here Sign up for the new G14 newsletter here: https://www.clearedhotpodcast.com/exclusive Check out the newest Cleared Hot Gear here: https://shop.clearedhotpodcast.com/  

Good morning, everybody. Most of you are probably tuning in for Fallout Friday, because that's what we do on Fridays. But occasionally, I have the opportunity to do different episodes meeting up with people that present the opportunity to record something that's a little bit shorter, like I did last Friday with Jack Osborne. Today is no exception. So I sat down with Nick McKinley. I think this is the second or third time we've sat down. He is the CEO of Deliver Fund, an organization actually based. locally here that is anti-human trafficking, an issue that I have come to understand a lot more about since getting into the podcasting space, both on change agents and also with this podcast. And these conversations are really important. So I took the opportunity where when it presented itself. And specifically, I think this one is important because it allows you, the listener or viewer to get involved if you want to. So I'm going to leave it at that and let Nick describe

the app that Deliver Fund just launched and how it can be of service to you and then the greater law enforcement and fight against human trafficking in general. That's it. Enjoy the episode. I'm looking at danger close now. Yeah, but she also still has a mouth just because she's deaf. Hey, you have your opinion. Other people have theirs. All right. What's new in your world? All right. And we're off. Earlier this week, we had a deep 20-minute conversation about where the power lies in a cucking situation, so you're lucky. Oh.

You got off. You got off early. Yeah, it sounds like it. Sounds like it. The debate rages on. I can understand multiple segments of it's the person in the chair, it's the woman, it's the bowl. Life doesn't have that many concrete answers. This is why they have philosophy degrees.

I feel like we're having. halfway there because we've spent at least an hour over the last week talking minor and philosophical issues. What's new in the world? Man, a lot of good things. A lot of good things. Why haven't you stopped human trafficking yet? What's going on? Working on it. Actually. It doesn't appear like you're working that hard. It appears like it's still going on everywhere. The question is, why hasn't society stopped human trafficking yet? And that's actually the real problem.

Right, right. That's where we're going with this. And, you know, you and I have talked for what years now about what the long strategy is. And I know a lot of people here, hear my long, 2030 vision. They hear the long strategy about what we're doing. They're like, okay, Nick, yeah, whatever. Good luck with that. Well, hopefully people start to see, like, there's a pattern here of, like, we're executing on a plan. And where we started at Deliver Fund in helping law enforcement, fight human trafficking, extremely important. But that's R&D. If you want to get in the fight you want to learn about human trafficking, that's where you have to be in order to figure out what you're going to automate, what you're going to build.

Yeah. So for the last three years, you know, something we talked about, man, I think the first time I met you, we talked about where we were going on the technology side. And you talked about it broadly. I mean, there's obviously a level of discretion when it comes to the specifics or the TTPs. But yeah, ever since the first time I met you and even when I visited the offices, it was a technology-based approach. Yeah.

It's a tech play. It's not that we don't help law enforcement. We do. We still have analysts embedded in law enforcement task forces work in that issue. But think of that as R&D. That's what helps us understand what problems need to be solved so that our engineers can go actually create scalable solutions to solving those problems. Because despite what people think, I don't care what your background is, anytime you've got to send a person on a plane, that person can do one thing. And that is not a scalable solution to human trafficking.

And so we have now launched. app if I guess when this gets released it will be out that day September 1st yeah we can time it for the exact day September 1st all right so if it's September 1st then that is the app is released and it is available to the public and what does it do so go to the app store go to just search deliver fund or H.T Safeguard deliver fund is going to be the easiest one Hotel Tango Hotel Tango safeguard that's right and download the app subscribe and then you you can run phone numbers and email addresses across our data. So what is that data?

That is the largest and that is the largest deduplicated database of potential human trafficking activity in existence. So if you are a mom and your son is playing Roblox and somebody tries to off platform him by giving him a phone number to get him on signal or WhatsApp or something else, you run that phone number through our app and it comes up positive. that's a huge indicator that you've got a potential problem on your hand. So more importantly, you've now gotten left of that problem. You've gotten in front of it so you can say, sorry, blocking communications with that.

You, a child, are no longer allowed to talk to this person who has connection to predatory activity. So it's an early warning, essentially. Yeah. It's a monitor that helps people test their thesis and whether or not somebody might be connected to this type of activity. And that could be everything from a, you know, a 20-year-old college girl who wants to check out her Tinder date once she gets a phone number and wants to see whether or not this person is potentially connected to this activity to the soccer coach to everybody. You know, if you're hiring a nanny for your kids, you probably want to know whether or not they're either prostituting themselves online. Probably don't want that person around your kids, regardless of how you feel about that activity or that they are connected to some type of potential human trafficking activity. And the public has never had the ability to test for that.

Never had a tool to allow them to test for that. And so that's what we, that's what we've been building. The off platforming, I believe you called it, is terrifying to me. I've actually referenced the story that you told me many times on the podcast. I believe it was a gaming console and the kid got lured out of the house. There was like a controller outside and like three states later they found this kid. Yeah. So that was a, it was, yes, a gaming console.

Again, my legal counsel doesn't allow me to say which one starts with an X. And then was actually chatting. X rectangle? Yes, X rectangle. It was chatting with a trafficker. The child was, a 14-year-old boy. In fact, you can, if you want to see the full story, go to our YouTube and check out, just search the story of Noah and it'll pop up. Anyway, over a period of months, the trafficker groomed this boy.

And this boy thought that he was talking to another boy, his. age. That's the kicker. Right. How many people do you think that that predator was working at the same time? Probably 100. Like just a full-time J-O-B for this person. Like that's what they did. That's not a full-time job, though. Because for them to communicate with 100 people, it doesn't mean they're doing it simultaneously. They got this gaming console. That's a lot of comms. That's got 20 people on it, but they're all playing the same game. So it's all in the same chat room. Is this like a Discord chat room? No, this is this is on the game. Okay.

On the game. So this is before they even get to something like Discord. Hey, hit me up here. And then they'll go to something like Discord. Then it will be an off-platforming of text message, signal, WhatsApp, pick your platform. They'll be on that platform. They'll be communicating with them on that platform. And then in the case of Noah, the text came through that said, hey, I'm actually in your neighborhood.

I'm with my dad up the street. come on up and say hi. And so they found the, they found the kid's cell phone in the front yard. And yeah, he was three states away by the time law enforcement caught up to him. And because we were able to do what it is that we do and were good at it, we were able to, we were able to figure out who the trafficker was. And it was just a period of hours. I wanted to say it was like four hours. But then the legal process has to start. But it's important for people to understand that, like, Think of this as a huge funnel. So, okay, there's thousands of kids falling into this funnel, and there's a grinder

underneath that's turning them into food for these freaking crazy predators. So we were able to grab one out of the funnel. Well, how many others fell into that funnel while we were working that one? That's why it's... Think about that. Yeah, that's why it's so important that we have the power and the hands of each individual. So if you think about it like a forest. And you shine a really large, like one of those spotlights that are on the ships, you know,

where you can like darn near spotlight something on the horizon. You got one of those and you shine. I don't think you know very much about ships, but continue. Yeah, you know what I'm talking about. I've seen them. And one of those is shining into a forest. What do you end up with? You end up with some rays of light going into the forest, but you have a bunch of shadows.

Yeah. And all these child predators, all these societal predators, they are hiding in those shadows. And so what we're doing is we're giving every single person in the forest a flashlight. So there's nowhere for them to hide. So what this turns into, people download and use the app. They get a positive hit, hit that report button on there that tags that data for deliver fund and law enforcement future use. Well, that turns into the largest crowd-sourced operation to identify unknown child predators and societal predators in history. That's a massive force multiplier.

That's the plan. Yeah. Yeah. It, I don't use TikTok. My daughter alerted me that there was a TikTok channel that is uploading clips from the podcast. It's probably Michael for all, for all I know. But I see, and I have seen often, and maybe it happens on, and Snapchat is another one that I don't have. My kids use Snapchat.

I know my daughter is on TikTok. There's an interesting trend for people to try to pull what I'm going to call impressionable. communities off of that platform and get them behind like a paywall with Patreon. It's very interesting. And I don't know if they're trying to indoctrinate them into a message or maybe they're trying to lead them down the path of, hey, let's go get an ice cream in my van down by the river. I don't know which one, probably somewhere in between those two. But that's terrifying for them to pull it off of that platform to try to get them somewhere else.

And it just seems like they're trying to take them to use your. forest analogy a few steps deeper into that forest where the light could even you know it could penetrate even less right right or take them into a draw where there is no light right i mean that's the that's the whole do you think the platforms could police that i know they could why don't they uh because they don't have an incentive to do it so why why do be to be a good person well but capitalism says that the fiduciary duty is their primary incentive so until the government comes down with regulation. And I am the biggest small government guy you're ever going to find.

I don't think the government should be regulating things with a few exceptions. I think we should regulate nukes, right? Like nuclear weapons? Yeah, I think it's probably a good idea. I'm on board this so far. We should also regulate what internet, anybody who has a platform that allows internet communication with minors or could allow internet communication with minors, there needs to be some regulation there. And the fact of the federal government and a bunch of old senators with flip phones putting together what that regulation is terrifies me. So it needs to be industry putting together that regulation.

And if you've listened to it doesn't matter if it was Musk or Zuckerberg or the former General Counsel of Microsoft wrote a book, I think it's called tools and weapons, but about the need for regulation around the Internet and Communications Decency Act Rule 230 and how that is all leading to. to the predatory environment that we have on the internet. And that is not just for, that's not just for child trafficking and societal predators. I mean, that's everything from pig butchering to all the different, all the different crap that happens online. So we need a regulatory environment there just for the purpose of not censoring speech, nothing like that, just protecting children.

So that there's no reason why a 40-year-old non-familial connection of a predator on the East Coast should be able to contact a 14-year-old girl that is not in his network on the West Coast. That fundamentally, technologically, should not be able to happen. Because if they could, I mean, so for people listening, I'm using societal predator because the terms that I usually use are now being algorithmically strangled. Really? Yeah. What do you usually go with?

Human trafficking. Why is that being algorithmically strangled? That's a great question. I don't know. They don't invite me to those meetings or those things are decided or however that is, however that works. I also do not receive an invite to those. Right? Man, you'd think they would like up the customer service a little bit.

Yeah. But the, so that's a problem. I mean, if they can, if they can actually say, oh, we don't like this word. We don't like you talking about vaccines. We don't like you talking about this candidate or that candidate. Then they can definitely sever the communications. between people that, quite frankly, shouldn't be allowed to communicate. I wish people in those positions would stop doing things that could be perceived as conspiratorial.

Right. Because it just feeds the flames for people who are, if you're looking for conspiracies, let me just tell everybody right now, you're going to find them. I forget this study, but I think it was that it was about taxis or it was about stop signs. And you can precondition yourself to look for something. And if you, it was an exercise that if you go through people, People started reporting an abnormal bout of yellow cars that they would see or stop signs. But it was that preconditioning to look for those things, much like I think the argument can

absolutely be made if we keep teaching people that they are oppressed and that they should be looking for oppression and they are a victim, that that is what they are going to find. It shouldn't shock anybody at those two are somehow intrinsically connected. But, yeah, why? One of the Pizza Gate has an example. Great example. Something that I know almost nothing about. but from my understanding, they believed that it was essentially a sex dungeon in the basement of that building.

To my knowledge, that building does not have a basement. Does not. In fact, you know there was some freaking crazy QAnon guy. He showed up there to try to rescue a bunch of kids that didn't exist. Found him? Well, he found a broom closet. Well, there's that. We didn't know how to read a door, though.

He tried to kick in and how it would open the door. This is day one shit, Dick. You know what I mean? Like, we know how to handle these things? Well, you do. Yeah, that's true. I feel like you understand the doors open. I understand the concept.

I understand the concept. But people, it's not, so I think there's a lot going on. I think people are struggling in so many different aspects of their life. And I think that it's easier to attach to those things if you have something in your own life that you don't want to work through. I'm, of course, speaking super broadly. And I'm not an expert in anything for clarity. But I can see the link between people. who maybe thought there was some validity to Pizza Gate or the surround, you still hear it, the

Wayfair. Yeah, or the cabal of politicians that are drinking babies' blood, things like this. And again, I have no proof that this does. Do you see the YouTube video I did on that? No. Oh, I called out an individual's quotes specifically, worked with a PhD in pharmacology to actually debunk those from the biochemistry perspective. But people will still believe.

Oh, absolutely. It's going to be that you'll be labeled as a right-wing cuck. One guy actually called me an Epstein-Semopathizing, what do you call me, an Epstein- sympathizing Wokey or something like that. I was like, wow, it's kind of a fundamental failure to be the room. The only thing I feel bad about for Epstein is I feel like he died far too quickly. Far too quickly. I would have loved to see that drag itself out for a week.

Again, Andy's potato peeler. Oh, I could have a drug. I was a suite of doctors just keeping that piece of shit alive. So there's that, like, there is that belief out there. And some people, maybe the Pizza Gate is less than the politicians who meet and drink blood and all of that stuff tied in there. And then you do hear tech companies that it's pretty clear, communicate openly with the government in ways that they shouldn't are restricting things like human trafficking. It's just an easy domino for people to have fall that, okay, the government's now in cahoots with the social media platforms and we're not hearing this because that is what's actually happening. They need to stop doing shady shit.

Yeah, absolutely. They just need to go back to being capitalists and stop cooperating with the government. Why doesn't anybody trust us? I don't know. Maybe because you guys keep doing dumb shit. And then the government just needs to come down and say, hey, here's what you can and cannot do. You need to do this if you're going to do that anymore. That's it.

It should be that. I mean, I'm pretty sure that's the way our system was set up. Yeah. So that we didn't have this kind of cronyism that's happening currently from all walks of life, right? It's not just social media. But if the social media companies, and this is not to demonize the social media companies, right? I mean, who we want to demonize here are elected politicians who are not doing their job in properly regulating the things that they're supposed to regulate because they're out regulating things that nobody. he cares about.

Or have a vested self-interest in the status quo. Yeah. And I think part of the conspiracy theories, specifically around the child predatory behavior, actually come from something that you actually covered on the Ironclad podcast with that guest that you just had on from Nicosi. No, not with Glenn. Oh. Nicosi.

The one about pornography and victims and stuff like that. So what Glenn's doing, that's great, but that's not scalable. like that the one person gets on a plane, go someplace, does something. I mean, that is what it is. And it's important work, right? I'm not not dogging it. I'm just doing the scalable stuff because nobody else is.

And nobody in tech is doing it. So if anybody understands what it takes to get an app released, and Apple has a total monopoly, you do what they say. So the first one we released, they're like, no, we don't like that. You need to change this. And you change that. Really? Yeah, you end up with a watered down version of the reporting.

but you're still getting the outcome that you wanted, which is that red flag saying, there's a problem with this phone number, there's a problem with this email address. So if you search Plastic Mom at gmail.com in our app, you'll see, bam, there is a, I mean, that's a plastic mom? Plastic mom. It's a relatively innocuous Gmail address.

You might think it's funny. You might be like, okay, that's a little bit weird, whatever. Yeah. But you run it through that app and you see, oh, there's 123 commercial sex advertisements across multiple websites that this email address is associated with. That means it's a problem if it's in your life. Yeah.

Right? Especially if it's in your kids' life. So that's the highlighting. And I think the reason that we get so many conspiracy theories is because a lot of men, predominantly men, I mean, we're talking about 99% men here, do not want to face the fact that the webcam pornography that they just watched very well could be a human trafficking victim. They don't want to actually talk about that and they don't want to come face to face with that. So it's much easier to say, oh, well, Hillary Clinton is drinking the blood of children in her basement.

That's what trafficking is and I'm not participating in that. Therefore, I'm in the clear and I'm good. It's like, no. And even if that is true, okay, well, that's an end of maybe one to a couple of hundred. You're telling me that it's driving a $150 billion a year market? probably not. So we need to empower the public, you know, awareness and education, yeah, fine, but with something that can actually do to protect their own network.

And if everybody just focuses on their network, runs phone numbers and email addresses and their network, that's it, we're going to do a lot of damage against the bad guys. God, I wonder, I'm thinking as you're talking about this, if everybody, which is, this is probably an impossible task, but if everybody, let's just start with adults. If every adult in the U.S. actually inputted, if they were able to scrape their inbox, like I use Gmail, if you're able to scrape it

and put all the email addresses in there, even somebody who is just as anti-human trafficking as possible, I bet you they'd still have some peripheral hits off of addresses that were associated, whether it's in their spam folder. Do you want to mean? Spam folder? So you know something really, a little freak you out?

There's somebody. How can you ask me a question like that and not expect the answer to be a resounding yes. There is a person who is in my network, not personal network. They were on like the third ring, but somebody that I know, was a professional, and their phone number. Will Willis. Well, that wouldn't surprise me.

But their phone, and I don't have Will's phone number, but their phone number was actually pop positive in our database from an advertisement. Now there was an advertisement 10 years ago. That doesn't mean that they, didn't get that phone number from somebody else. They need to change their phone number if that's the case because that means that internet that that information is on the open internet. So we are not inputting any of this data. All we have done is create the technology to harvest that data into one place because it's all out there on the internet and make it easy

to search. I that doesn't actually surprise me at all. I think a lot of people underestimate how evil human beings can be. Sure. We all look relatively the same walking around in our skin suits, but truly how much do you know what's going on behind somebody's eyes? I've worked with people who lived up to every expectation that I could possibly think of of just an altruistic integrity, phenomenal human being. And then some other ones, you read the news from time to time. Oh, hello there. Yeah. I had a member of my unit who ended up committing suicide by a cop because his house is being rated for a pedophile raid.

Yeah. That was a, you know, shooter from the agency. I mean, there are, I mean, how many guys do you know that you worked with who are, I mean, if you're going to war, you want them to your right or left. They are straight up killers. But they're not really good for much else. And they do a lot of stuff in their personal life that is pretty shady. Yeah. I didn't, what do you think?

I was thinking about this and having a conversation with somebody. In talking with people that I used to work with since I've been out, I feel like the number of people who come into the communities that we came from actually had more trauma in their upbringing than I realized. I think it's most of them. And it's interesting because you could view it through the lens of they chose not to. to pass the trauma on generationally, but they found another way to, I mean, it's a chunky way of saying it, but to deliver that trauma elsewhere under a more acceptable guys,

under a rewarded guys, under a guys that you can wrap yourself around in, and like you risked, you were a hero. And I'm not trying to talk down on anything that anybody has done. But then if they come from that, level of trauma and they pass that trauma on elsewhere and they still don't deal with it themselves, it surprises me less and less when I hear stories like that. Sure. I didn't realize the backgrounds.

And I honestly, I never really asked that many people about it. Well, I didn't either. So I grew up in an amazing family. I did too. I mean, amazing family. But I was orphaned at like 18 months, right, shipped around in orphanages until I finally got adopted at the age of three. So if you would have asked me, I mean, how many psychological freaking evaluations have I done, like a lot?

And every single one of them, childhood trauma, I don't mean childhood trauma. I don't mean childhood trauma. Well, a couple of years ago, some stuff started creeping up. And I was like, man, this is, this is not good. I need to go, I need to go deal with this. Turned out, yeah, actually, that's actually some pretty formidable childhood trauma. So I think it's how do we define childhood trauma. And I think when you look at it and you look at it from the, the, the, the, the,

at the neurological level. I'm like, so I don't think it was abused or anything as a baby, but just the very fact that I was, you know, abandoned by the person that I counted on the most, actually triggers something. And the psychologist that I've talked to,

and I'm not an expert on this at any level, but they said that people usually tend to go one or two ways. They tend to go, they're a perpetual victim or they're a perpetual self-reliant, right? This one of two ways. And so who do you get in the soft, community massive amounts of self-reliance. Yeah.

Right? And you take. Well, it's rewarded. Yeah. And so you take a bunch of people with a extreme ability to rely on themselves and then teach them that the worst thing that they could possibly do is let down the person to their right or their left. You're going to be able to accomplish some really, really amazing things, right?

Because you think about it. Inside of a narrow spectrum. Very narrow. But that's why you have so many, so many people who when they leave, start having problems, right? The boxes start touching. The lids start bursting. And they no longer have those distractions.

And so they try to figure it out or they go start self-medicating and alcohol and drugs. And we all know how that goes. Or they go say, man, I actually can't deal with this. And I'm going to go get some real help. And I went out some real help. And that was everything from neurology to psychology to nature paths, to chiropractic to all kinds of stuff. And I was like, I got, like, rebuild myself. But it was only because I started studying about that very issue about, like, what is possibly happening to me, right?

So the one of the things that's getting tossed around a lot right now is the concept of operator syndrome. Does it exist? Does it not exist? I think the data is pretty clear. Like, you can't put a race car on the track and just keep it running and running and running for 20 years and not expect something to finally break. And the thing that, yes, guys get physical injuries, but it's the thing that, yes, guys get physical injuries, but it's, the injury that they can't see and they can't sense. And by the time you start figuring out that there's something going on, it's almost too late.

So they either overcorrect their self-medication. Again, hyper self-reliance. I don't need anybody else's help. Or they go get it figured out themselves. Or they go down some really dark paths. Why do you think it affects people so differently? Man, I don't know. I have no idea because if you put.

Two people. If you look at the twin studies that they've, that have been done on twins, so genetically identical that were separated at birth and one ends up in prison and the other ends up as the president, right? And like, man, I don't, I don't think anybody can, anybody can tell you. I do think that when you become an adult, you essentially become your sentient adult self, there does reach a point. And I don't know where that point is, but there, a point.

point does happen where it is now your choice. And that's not to, that's not to diminish anybody's life experience, but at a certain point, you decide whether or not you want to be a victim of your past circumstances or you want to do your absolute damnedest to not be, you know? Yeah. And it, it sounds harsh, but the only person who can, who can make that decision is that, is that individual. And I mean, I know plenty of people who were on a pretty dark path and then all of a sudden just decided that, you know what, I don't want to do this anymore. Pulled themselves out of it. Yeah. And then we also have friends who couldn't see their way out of the dark path and they took the, we'll call it the.

They took the exit. They took the exit. And it just, I was having a conversation with a buddy mine on the phone. And I'm really tired of the broken toy narrative. Yes. Thank you. The problem with it is not that it's not true for some people. In my opinion, and that's all it counts for, is that it's almost at a place where it is rewarded.

You can expect handouts, and you could expect probably handouts for the rest of your life if you play your cards appropriately. And I think that there are certainly people who are broken by the experiences. But then it begs the question, why do some people come out of it stronger? Why do some people come out of it a better version of themselves? Does it have to break you? My theory is no. I think a lot of it depends on, to use an analogy of building a house. The foundation that you start with, I think at the end of the day, over a long enough period of time, is actually really all that matters.

Because if you start with the shit foundation or a small crack that becomes a crevice, it's going to crumble. And I wonder if in the soft community, and again, another question I have is, Does the community itself attract people who have past traumas, maybe even unrecognized or unrealized, more than any other occupation? I don't know. In the conversations I've anecdotally had, I'm leaning towards probably like a little bit more. So that's, I mean, we got to look at that from a foundational perspective. Is it the job and the stress of the job in the 20 years in the red? Because it doesn't break everybody.

The 20 years in the red, there are people that come out of that. You're like, you are an amazing fucking human being. I don't know how you went through what you did and what you're able to do now is just unbelievable. And there are others who define every version of the broken toy. I'm not trying to use that in a pejorative sense, but it's a narrative that I think that people understand. Why? Like, what is the difference? Man, I don't know.

I think if we had the answer to that problem, we could solve a lot of problems. What I do think happens is one of identity. So if take take the people you know who had the childhood trauma from their fathers, you know lots of these. Yeah. And it's always I have to be stronger so I can protect mom. I can, I need to be faster so that dad will respect me, right? I mean, it's, I mean, that that, that ultimately is kind of what's going on at the primal level. So if, if you have a group of people who are all.

focused on one very specific mission set, right? Because let's face it, I don't care of who you were in the military or where you were in the intelligence agencies. I mean, the mission set, it's national security. It's pretty narrow. It eventually terminates down to this person is right here and you need to go do something. Yeah, you need to do something with that, right? I mean, it ultimately does reach a point of finality versus the stress of, say, building a company. Yeah.

Much lower level stress, but much more constant, right? It's not like, oh, wow, made it off a target. Here's a beer. No, it's none of that. It's like, okay, I got payroll for the next two months, and then what am I going to do? And I'm not really, oh, crap, the app just got denied by the Apple store, right? I mean, it's, it makes things harder. And, but if you look at entrepreneurship, one of the things that, that, uh, I listened to an interview with one of the founders of Sequoia venture capital.

And he was saying that he looked for founders who had childhood trauma. Really? Yeah. So Steve Jobs adopted. right abandoned by his mother and adopted uh had a great family but there was there was that switch that was flipped yeah Elon Musk had a actually pretty brutal childhood he wasn't he wasn't abandoned by his parents or anything but you know being a white kid in south africa who wasn't going to go along with the whole apartheid thing he was you know kind of a nerd so he was getting

picked on i mean he was a uh you know the guy can take a punch he he had a pretty brutal childhood. And so when you look at it through that lens of like, okay, well, what, one, what even is childhood trauma? What, what defines that? There's a spectrum. We assume that just because we weren't being beat by our parents, that there's no, there's no trauma there, right? I mean, there could be any number of things. Does that then predispose somebody to go take these extremely risky behaviors? And it can very well. Now, you can find edge cases for both. Yeah. Now, extremely risky behaviors being like, okay, well, yeah, you've got somebody who's going to go start doing extremely risky things and they're going to go be a drug dealer, but then you've got this other

person who joins the military, and that's oftentimes why they're not a drug dealer, right? And so within the soft community, I think that we need to understand that our experiences very well made us stronger if we choose to see it that way. And instead of using the handouts to continue another day and, you know, buy another bottle of Jack Daniels, we need to use those handouts as essentially an unfair capital advantage and then go build something. So my VA disability is only 30%. I went and talked to the VA guy here and because I was talking to some buddies and they're like, dude, you have two, two medical jackets. Like they couldn't fit all of your file into one file. Like, you could easily be 100. And so,

went and talked to the VA rep and he's like, oh, yeah, yeah, man, we just need to file this and this is what it's going to take and all that. And I was like, no, I'm not going to do it. Just like, why are you kidding? You're leaving thousands of dollars a month on the table. I'm like, yeah, because I'm going to use that time to go build. And that thousands of dollars is going to be, just a drop in the bucket compared to what I'm going to go build. Because if all I was doing was trying to milk more out of the system, then where would I be mentally? But now I've got a job and I've got a mission and I've got something righteous that I'm pursuing. that's really good for your mental health. Yeah. Or you could also spend 10 minutes and file the paperwork and do both. It's not going to be 10 minutes. I got to go through all these doctor's appointments and all this stuff. And I was just like, I'm not going to put my time there.

And for some people, that makes a lot of sense. I'm just not one of those people. Right. I'm not a broken toy. And not only that, but I experienced one infinitesimal percentage point of what some of the people I know experienced. That's not true. They wrote an article about you called the real Jason Boyne. Real Jack Ryan.

Jason Bourne's not real. I tell people all the time. Oh, yeah, because fucking Jack Ryan's walking around at the agency, right? No. Definitely not. I mean, there's lots of PhDs, but they ain't running anywhere. Yeah. God, there are some smart people in the intelligence agencies.

Yeah. I don't know. Again, speaking of a very narrow spectrum. Like a paper bag, they might struggle. No, no. They could define the molecular capacity of the bag and why there's a bag in what Metaverse the bag exists in, I don't know if they could open it on the road and get out. Narrow band.

Very narrow band. Really no different than where we came from. Just a little bit of a different application of skill. Yeah. Well, if you look at the VA system using post-traumatic stress as an example of a rating, you're disincentivized to actually improve. Because if you get a, let's say you get a 50 or 75% rating or 100% rating, which there are certainly people out there who are deserving of,

all of those and everything in between. It's a weird system, though, because if you go back and you were to petition to lower your rating, economically you're going to take a hit. It's a weird structure. It's a very weird structure. There's a PJ I served with Rob Disney. He got shot in the face. Was he related to the Disney family?

No. I was going to say he doesn't need any disability as if he is. No. He took a round in the jaw. It luckily kind of traced out his job. jaw came out the back of his neck. You guys got a bunch of problems from it. He's a he's like a big wig at Microsoft now. Right. And even after he got shot in the face, he finished a 20 year career. He was on some mop in Pakistan or something like that. Right. So that's a great example of here's somebody who

and he and I heard through PJ school some of his childhood and it wasn't always the best and it wasn't always the worst. Right. I mean, and I think that's most people's experience. But that's a great example of a guy who while he was in finished a master's in cybersecurity and like was always doing more to kind of reach the next level and reinvent himself and get ready for the next thing as opposed to how many people just get out of the military and are like okay I'm out where's my now now what because for 20 years people have been telling them what to do yeah for 20 years people have been saying okay if you want to make whatever rank right this is the path you take and we're going to put you on that path.

It's a very task-based career, actually. I know, I'm sure between the two of us, we could list off a dozen people who exist in the public specter who talk about leadership and the military leadership model. And I don't think there's anything wrong with it. But my thoughts on it have drastically shifted over the past few years. Speaking of specifically the seal community, the seal community is capable of masking the worst and most horrendous leadership on the face of the planet because the outcome never deviates. So you have a guy who people want to kill and a leader that people want to die for, but the result of the objective that you're tasked with is always going to be a success.

How in the fuck is somebody supposed to really understand the difference externally? The people working directly for them, oh, they get it. and they may or may not be spending all of their off time harassing the more person that they want to kill and, you know, trying to reduce the safety of some of their safety equipment as an example. And hypothetical, of course. But from an outside perspective, somebody who looks at the military as this Ph.D. community of leaders. You come from soft. You know leadership. It's bred into you from day one.

And I will say in the seal pipeline, it's one of the things I like about the seal pipeline. officer enlisted shoulder to shoulder every evolution. There's no free pass on leadership. There is more expected of the officers in class, but if you look at it in totality, it's not that much. What's your head count, sir? It's a hundred and seventy-four. You like, you have 63 people in the class. That's clearly incorrect. I'm going to beat the shit out of you now and remediate you for the next hour. It's honestly, I look back as an instructor. Most of the time what I was expecting from the officers, this is where you need to be. This is the time you need to be there with this equipment and have a goddamn head count.

Almost impossible for them to accomplish those four things. Sure. In hindsight, very, very easy. And on the enlisted side, well, that's because we had a hard time counting from left to right. So, so. Some of the times as an instructor. We have some complicity in there, too.

Some of the times as an instructor, I would just sit back and I couldn't hold my with that. I was just dying, laughing. Like, sir, what is your fucking? head count. I am removing all-time constraints because I need an accurate answer. You are now affecting me. Yeah. I just want to go home. It's Friday. I am not fucking with you for the love of God. Give me a head count. And then when you can't, it's like, you know what? Weekends canceled, motherfuckers. Go meet out on the side of the ocean. But I need a number that I can put it in this little

box right here so that I can go home. Do you have everyone? Where are the balsa wood scuba tanks that we had been practicing pool comp with you don't know neither do I fuck we're all stuck here that's all you're responsible for yeah but externally you know this it's about leadership small unit tactics communication and all that stuff is super real but externally anybody looking from the outside who didn't work with those individuals let's say those same two leaders they go to their next position and they both decide they want to move on and they want to do other things from an resume application perspective, there's no way that somebody's going to know. And I've seen it time and time again where people hire from the military. And I'm not saying you shouldn't. What I tell organizations now

when I speak with them is it's not that you shouldn't hire from the military. You should just take your time and be cautious who you are hiring and hiring for, hire them for a role that they are qualified and suitable to fill, not just because they were some shiny object from the special operations community. Because they fail all of the time. It's, and, Also, and it's not good for them because then they get in their mental, their mental health issues are, I've never failed anything in my life. And now all of a sudden, like, I'm failing an office job. Yeah. Well, and it shuts the door.

What do you mean I have four HR complaints against me, right? I mean, it's, it's like it's important for them to understand that. And I, I like all young, arrogant soft operators thought that I knew a thing or two about leadership when I joined the agency. And let me show you guys like what I'm going to do. And then I got a bad upside the head because I was doing the things that I did in the military inside the agency, which is essentially like the HR environment of a bank. And I was causing some problems. And that was a very steep learning curve for me for the first four months that I was there until I figured, oh, I have to change. And then you get in the civilian world.

I mean, you think about it. if you, if I give you a million dollars to invest in a company, in two startups, and one is, you know, shiny object soft guy, and the other is a graduate from MIT with an MBA, where are you going to invest that million bucks? I'm going to start my own cotton candy company. For sure. Tried and cotton candy. Hey, that's going to work.

And that's one that hasn't actually been done yet. You should do it. I have, Michael, go ahead. Feel free. You can use my name. But you're going to use the guy who knows how to run a P&L. Yeah. That's the thing.

And so... Not everybody would make that call, though. A lot of people would feel a pull towards the shiny object. And I'm not trying to, in any way, shape, or form diminish anything that anybody has done in their military career and they're exceptional people doing exceptional things. But also, the more time that I look at it in the rearview mirror, the job to add to the leadership, you know, the ability for the community to mask horrendous leadership because the outcome is always the same. It's always going to be success. specific you know at a tactical level like you're just not going to fail but it's likely with well it's not likely it's guaranteed if it's the poor leader it's in spite of the poor leader and the

guys on the ground they're picking up the slack for that person but it's still and they're learning leadership yeah right so they're learning a version of leadership yeah but they're learning they're learning how to essentially lead up because how many how many conversations are they having as a team and they're saying okay here's what we're going to do but here's what we're going to tell this guy right so they're learning, they're learning kind of some really bad habits. Yeah. And, and that's where I think from the, from the leadership perspective, especially when you start thinking of the civilian world and the corporate world,

I do think that the soft community for most, most provides an extremely solid foundation for a corporate opportunity to build upon. But one is not the other. Yeah. And build upon is the place where I would put the emphasis on that. Yes. Another thing I've realized about the soft community, and this is true of the leaders as well, it's really task-based. Even if you're ascending the ladder, there's a huge difference between knocking down tasks that other people present to you and going out and finding your own problems to solve.

I do believe that special operations is not. And then the way, and then the funding to figure that out. Well, you just stay in the military bottle, like just write checks. That bounced. Put it in this pocket of money. Yeah, put it in the OEF Alpha Fund over there. But there is just a huge difference between being able to, I do believe special operations is basically nonlinear problem solving. Meaning you give us a problem, we're going to figure out a way to solve it.

When you get out and you're no longer presented with those problems and you have to ask yourself, shit, what do I want to do? What's the problem I'm going to present myself with? Man, that can be jarring. And that comes in the identity issue. I mean, I've had people who started at the Liver Fund. They did great work. And I was happy to have them there for the period of time that they were there, but they're no longer good fits for the organization because we have progressed.

And if the identity is I help law enforcement, Nick, don't empower the public to help themselves, then the public no longer needs me and Hirmf, I'm no longer the hero. Yeah. And that's where I think when we get, I mean, let's face it. when you're a soft guy in the military, you're pretty tied to that identity, especially when you're around the conventional military. And oftentimes we end up burning bridges

with a conventional military because we treated them, quite frankly, pretty poorly. And also, you never take the time to give them the credit that they deserve. Yeah, yeah. It's like, you're sleeping well, air-conditioned hooch, you got a good decent chow,

got a prison gym outside. Where did all that stuff come from? Well, yeah, sorry. We were hard, harder men. Yeah. Yeah, for sure, for sure. Your air conditioning didn't quite go down as low as ours did, right? The water wasn't quite the right temperature.

We started with heat on, even in the desert. Constantly. Got to live hard to be hard, right? Yeah, you got to turn big rocks into small rocks and small rocks into dust. It never ends. We loved watching you do that. Do you think it's true that for Air Force bases, they built the runways last? I had always heard that when I was in.

I have heard that when I was into. I have no idea. I've never watched an Air Force base being built, but... It's a power move. I mean, yeah, it makes sense. I mean, oh, well, we got all this. Congressman and senators, we don't have enough money to finish our base. We have an amazing barracks, the Chow Hall, top notch, bowling alley, perfect.

We don't have a runway, though. So if you want us to use this thing, you're kind of going to have to give us some more money. Yeah. Yeah. And who would actually be fired if they actually did that? Nobody. They'd probably get promoted because they will promote the problem out to get rid of them. Yeah.

And then eventually, and then we wonder why we have all the problems we have. So the, you know, kind of back to the foundation of leadership and the foundation of getting things done, I do think that your average soft operator does have a extremely strong foundation for problem solving. Because that's what you are. You're solving problems non-linearly in real time. And there are problems you've never seen before. Okay, great. Or a lot of those problems are. So that's a great foundation on how to think through things.

but we don't get taught as an example of principles. Like we were taught leadership, but were we taught principles to apply to ourselves and our teams and our organization? No. Yeah, I don't remember. I mean, I've been out for 10 years now. I don't know if it's changed, but I suspect that that's still not being taught.

It's one of the things that I had to figure out when I got to the agency because I had the guys on my team. We had a lot more leeway than we do in the military. So I had guys on my team, especially as a country team leader that, quite frankly, I didn't really like. And I had guys that I liked, and then I had guys that I liked and I trusted. And then I had guys that I didn't trust.

The guys that didn't trust, whatever, go sweet floors. But the other ones, how do you use them properly without burning out the guys that you like and you trust? And only ever giving the really good missions to the guys that you like and your trust, because that'll crush morale faster than anything. So I had to come up with a series of principles that I could use to make decisions when I was tired and pissed off. and maybe just got bad news from home or whatever the case may be, right? And I could just run them through in my head and be like, okay, am I doing this? Am I doing that?

And I could also apply to myself. And that actually helped me be able to navigate the HR environment of the bank that is the CIA. And that really helped me when I started building things in the civilian world because I understood the nuances of leadership where you get somebody who, who is a computer engineer, right? And computer engineers kind of write their own ticket, especially if they're really good AI engineers. One of the biggest points of pride in probably my entire professional life, which hasn't been that much of a slouch,

has been one of my computer engineers, I think it was Amazon, tried to poach him for about 200,000 more than I pay him. And he turned it down so he could stay working with us because he said he knew that that was one of the best, work environments he could get. And I'll tell you, I was like almost in tears. Because that to me is like, so, okay, cool, that's what success looks like. We can now take, but I was only able to get there by using these principles as an example, primarily just to keep my mouth shut and just not

intervene with the team unless I absolutely needed to and just let them do their thing. And yeah, maybe things aren't as organized as I want or maybe somebody's not quite putting in what I want. But at the end of the day, they're so much happier, which leads to so much better outcomes. I mean, that, that I think is one of the big differences between the civilian world and the military, and especially in SOF, is in the civilian world, very rarely is anybody dying if things don't go well. So there's no quiet quitting on a target, right? That doesn't happen. There's no, you know, a helicopter pilot doesn't just say, you know, I don't feel like, just don't feel like flying my best today.

I mean, that doesn't happen. When you're in those high stress environments, and especially in the lethal environment, everybody's giving it their all because their incentives are properly aligned for them to do that. You get into the civilian world, it's not that way. So you can get somebody who's just sitting on your payroll, just sucking up a paycheck while they're going to class and getting their resume ready for the next move. and they're not giving you their all because there's no consequence for them not doing that, no personal consequence. And that, I think, is a big driver of the difference between military leadership and civilian leadership is at the end of the day, even if you have a really terrible military leader, the environment gets a vote on how hard those people are going to drive, the people on the ground and the people underneath that toxic leader are going to drive towards.

objective. Well, they've been screened and refined, especially in the world we come from two, and are also contractually obligated. Right. You know, many things that don't exist in the civilian world, nor do I think that Amazon should have a crucible course that a warehouse manager should go through. Right. Dude, you're going to break hearts by calling the agency a bank, right? We need to talk about Jason and Michelle Bourne. It's all ninjas and savages, and they're constantly in there practicing their Stephen Segal death touch. That's what people want. Stephen Segal was one of my instructors. He would probably tell people that he was. He probably would. Yeah. Right after he had dinner with Putin, a freaking traitor. Where does that guy call home these days?

Probably a yacht off of Monaco. J-DAM would be such a good solution for that. Really, though. Or a torpedo? Wouldn't that be too fast? It's going to say, torpedo, you don't put a hole in it. Just make him sit there and think about it as slowly. I think a torpedo.

I mean, I haven't really seen a torpedo go off either, but I think that'd be quick, too. Is it too quick? I mean, it's an explosion. Somebody will put something in the comments. It's a better idea, for sure. For sure. We're tired. It's in the afternoon.

He needs to have a really drawn out expiration. But to the agency being a bunch of freaking ninjas, that's actually one of the thing that my very first interview with the agency was for a different job than the one that I ultimately got. Because I self-selected out of the first one when I asked what the, what the, what the fitness requirement was. And the woman told me that, well, it'd be a good idea if I could walk a couple of blocks without breathing too heavily. And I was like, okay.

Whoa. This is different than I thought. Obviously, there was a place I was looking for. And I had chosen poorly and had not found it and then eventually did find it. But yeah, I mean, the agency, there are a couple of units, you know, a couple hundred people who have a fitness requirement and shooting. requirements and all that. And they're, they're not as stringent as they are in the soft world, but they're, you know, they'll get your heart rate up. And then there's kind of everybody else. And that's not to diminish everybody else. You don't want everybody else being that way, right? You

don't want some case officer or chief of station who's supposed to interface with the ambassador to be dropping F bombs and, you know, talking about their last Friday night hookup and being completely undiplomatic, right? That'd be a really good way to get into a bunch of war. And so you've got different people with different skill sets, and I think that we too often don't appreciate other people and their other skill sets. And I'll tell you, everything that I know how to do in the fight against child predators and human trafficking, my engineers are going to have a bigger impact than I could ever possibly imagine. Yeah. Why can't we write an AI solution to human trafficking? We can and we are.

Okay. I was going to say, I found Discord like two months ago when I started using Mid Journey. Yeah, yeah. And it's pretty awesome. And if they can make that, I feel like there should be somebody out there who is way smarter than me, which is almost everybody on Earth. And they can get together on a really cool team with a cool name, like Team Dragon Slayer, whatever they want to go with. We call it. We call it. We call it. I mean, if they can create an image that is damn near photorealistic and I can change the lens and the time of day and the angle of lighting and. with chat GPT and all of these things that I know almost nothing about but enjoy using. I would imagine that whatever, let's say there was a human being on the other end, reading the prompts that I put in, I would be put, this guy probably just be sitting there like,

you fucking idiot. Let me rewrite that for you. Yeah. Who are you? Like, I could put a monkey into space and you're asking me to have a dog-looking ice cream comb. Like, With most technology devices, I think I'm using 2% of what's capable, and I'm happy with it.

That's fine. I understand my limitations. I just want a thumbnail image for YouTube. I just let's take it easy. Yeah. Hashtag imagine, you know, whatever it may be. That shit, I mean, there are now songs that can fool people. There are podcasts with Rogan that never existed that aren't great yet, but give it five years.

They're getting there. Why can't we point a supercomputer at these people trying to do evil in the trafficking world and just demolish them? So we can. And supercomputers, we have two of them now. You're talking about deliver fund or like in the world? No, deliver fun. Okay. We have two of our own high-performance computers, one in Dallas, one in New Mexico.

What do they mean? New Mexico one is the backup. Sarah V1 and Sarah V2. And Sarah is an acronym. No, my engineers get to do that. And I do not, I don't mess with their stuff. It's an acronym. I don't remember what it is.

But the, so we can, the, when you talk about like the GPTs, so chat GPT, mid-jorney, things like that, those are large language model, AI algorithms. They exist. It's very easy to use them. But what you have to have is a training data set. And that's the thing that we've been working on since 2015. And we're getting very, very close. So we're about to buy another high-performance computer. We're buying two of these extremely expensive GPU blades that will actually be able to,

the computer will be able to look at the imagery in the same way that our analysts can look at the imagery and make a determination as to human trafficking, not human trafficking. I feel like that will be the lever that takes it over the top. Yeah. Not the imagery specifically, but the use of AI. Yeah. So the AI exists as far as algorithmically it exists. It just hasn't been properly trained yet.

And part of the reason why we bought our own supercomputers is every time that you train a model, right, you're basically converting dollars into electrons. And the more you do that, the more electrons it takes, the more dollars it takes. And Jeff Bezos doesn't give anybody a discount. So it was becoming cost prohibitive to train these models in the classroom. cloud. So we were like, fine. We're just going to, we worked with an incredible company called Hunify Technologies. They're spin out of Sandia National Laboratories. And they built us these custom supercomputers that allow us to train our models on those platforms that we own. So our unit economics actually decrease every time we turn the wheel instead of increase like they do when you

do it in the cloud. How big are they? They're really not as big as you would think. Like table sets? No, they're like, they're a box probably about that big. Have you guys programmed? They plug into wallpower. Program it to say, shall we play a game? No. I would run the fuck out of that room.

We should though. We really should. And I guarantee you those guys are listening. So, hey, Victor and crew, like make it happen because that's going to be hilarious. Just on boot up. Hello, Nick. Shall we play a game? Make sure it's got a camera so you can capture the face of the person.

from the first time they booted up. How wild is that, looking back at that movie, of course, I immediately forget the name of that movie. It was, you know, I don't know. War games?

Yes, I think it was. Yeah. What were we talking? 30 years ago? At least. Playing with what would, at the time would be described as AI. Yeah.

But let's not do that. Let's not play a game. We're going to end up from an AI perspective in an arms race where we're going to just end up with this kind of analysis paralysis. I did an interview with Fox a couple weeks ago about why I'm not really concerned about the whole, like, sentient AI that's going to, you know, be SkyNet that's going to come for us all. And it's because you're going to have, you know, you're going to have competing AIs.

Well, one AI will be able to predict what the other AI can do. And so then it'll pivot and then it'll predict the pivot. And you'll just sit there and it'll just be like, well, I'm going to do this. And then, no, that's not going to work. And I'm going to do this. It's just going to end up in this, like, this stalemate of analysis paralysis. At the state level, the opportunity here is at the level like we're operating, especially in the fight against human trafficking, and that human traffickers are never going to be organized

and able to start building their own AI to counter what it is that we do. Let's hope not. I mean, they already don't cooperate, right? Just they're always trying to take money from each other, girls from each other, things like that. So we don't really have to worry about essentially a near peer competitor on that side. Now, the problem would be if you had a nation state who owns a social media platform, like, I don't know, TikTok, and then they started putting their algorithms towards countering the things that we were doing. Well, that would mean that our platform wouldn't work on their platform. But all the other platforms that still would.

So it's really when you're when you're training this AI, it's a matter of data sets. So basically think of it this way. You're telling the computer that you want it to take a test and you give it the answers to the test. And then you have it take the test and you see how many answers it got right and where it got them wrong. And then you re-give it the answers to the test and you have it go over and over and over again. Everybody's always looking for the silver bullet AI that can do everything. from, you know, train your cat to create a fake Joe Rogan podcast. And the reality is that's just, I don't think that's going to happen. I'm not an expert in it. I just don't think it's

going to happen. What I think we're going to have is a bunch of mission-specific large language model AI algorithms that do, again, very specific things. So this is our, this is the hospitals model running in a Hunify box or something like that that detects cancer, right? Within, within the radiology environment. And this is the model that detects human trafficking within the gaming platforms. And this is the model that detects human trafficking within chats and social media. And this is the model that detects extremist activity from, you know, predominantly Islamic youth, right? Or something like that, right? I think we're going to end up with all these different models. Where the cost is coming down is in training these models. Because traditionally, that was

really expensive. I mean, really expensive to do. Now, You can do it for, I mean, you can build your own. There's a large language model, and I think it's called Longboy. I don't make that up. I think that's what they call it, but it was based around creating movie scripts. You can buy, if you can buy the hardware to run that model, which will cost you roughly a quarter million bucks, they will give you the model. Then let's just say you have a podcast training data set. You could feed it a podcast training data set, and it's going to start spending out podcasts.

I'm going to invest in EMPs. That's probably a good idea. I'm going to shut this shit. I mean, when people talk about AI, which I'm being totally honest, not smart enough to completely understand the totality of what it's able to do and the potential cascading consequences. But I do ask myself, will it ever get to a place where analog is actually the solution where we have to smash all of these electronic devices that we rely on or just turn them off and go back to being. monkeys with sticks and, you know, trucks and stuff. I can't wait for that, except your truck probably won't run if we get into that kind of environment. Maybe the world would be a little bit better off if that was the case for like six months.

Yeah. I mean, it's this race. And of course, like you said, we could put regulations on this stuff and try to do it in a, not that humane is the correct vernacular to use, but we could govern ourselves in the U.S. China, you know, I'm not so sure what they're. No, they're just going to go, oh, you, you. You limited yourself to do what? Cool.

We're going to double down on that. Russia's going to do the same thing. So we can, and so then the argument becomes, well, then do we need to do the same things as well? And then that just goes back to me stocking up on the MPs. It's an arms race. It's an arms race. Yeah. The biggest problem I think that we're going to have with AI is we are going to get to the point where we, we society, can't tell what's real and what's not.

It's close already for some people. Yeah. So there was a social media post of a bomb going off outside. I think it was the Pentagon or the White House or something like that. I don't know if you saw the news coverage of this caused a massive drop in the stock market. I believe they actually had to close down the stock market to keep things from hemorrhaging. It was an AI generated image. And that's what we have now.

Yeah. And so... The velocity that even from a rudimentary understanding, the velocity with which it's increasing in its capability. But we're also going to have AI. So you got to keep in mind whatever's true, the inverse is usually also true. So yes, we have all these things happening with AI, but we also have an incentive structure, usually in the form of government funding, for companies to create AI to then counter that AI. So one of the biggest investment opportunities right now that VCs and PE firms are looking for is, people with expertise and even an idea on how to counter deepfakes, right, so that they can start

screening them out. And so I actually think that we're going to go through a pretty rough period, but then things are really going to smooth out because once it gets figured out, well, the AI will largely become predictive. So the things that, and I'm talking on everything from school shooting to cancer treatments, to, you know, to detecting human trafficking, It's the system, right, and it's not a system, but the series of millions and millions of systems that connect us all will just start essentially cleaning itself. And you're not going to have all of this crash. But we are going to go through a rough stretch for sure. Where EMPs are going to be awesome.

EMPs would be a very good near-term solution to that rough stretch. It would set us back a bit, though. No, I mean, there's another option. The poor man's EMP is you wrap the inside of the baseball hat with tinfoil. Well. I'm not sure how it works, but I'm just saying as a suggestion, if you don't want to do EMPs, you could do that. Did you hear the tinfoil crinking? No.

Okay. We're good. Didn't just Lane Maxwell try to like wrap her phones and stuff in? Tinfoil? Yeah. Like a fair day bag. Yeah. So funny, funny story.

I'm in Kirk Cook, Iraq, working for some people. and it was us in a J-Sock element and we had this guy on our team who was a straight up like conspiracy theorist he wanted everybody on the team to watch this movie about the Bilderbergs

right so I'm trying to be a good sport I thought he was trolling us so I'm like okay I'm gonna I'm gonna keep this and then I saw that he was he was serious so I go and you know a couple doors down go into our kitchen

make a little tinfoil hat came back in, sat down on the couch, the tinfoil hat. Of course, everybody in the team thought it was hilarious except for him. Yeah, he lost his shit. He went straight violent. Straight violent. And I was like, whoa, like, even if you honestly believe all this stuff, like, that's funny. But that is, that conspiracy theory stuff is very much part of, like, their identity.

And that's where I say the rough stretch is going to happen is because you can create. So you want to create a conspiracy. Give me 72 hours. But to tell me what it is. And with all the generative AI out, you and I could create a conspiracy that could cause a lot of damage. I think that's the biggest risk. Yeah, because we can backstop that conspiracy. We can put stuff all over the internet.

We get a couple people to bite onto it. And then it's just going to take off on its own. I think we're going to have to teach people or relearn as. Critical thinking? Well, critical thinking, but patience. Sure. We're going to have to relearn as a species that maybe, don't leap right when you first see something. Give it a little bit of time. Give it a breath. Let's have a little bit of room to breathe.

I mean, there's countless examples of people. My father is a good example here. He does not have an understanding of technology. He just recently left his laptop out in a rainstorm and wonders why it's not working. So he can figure that out with the technicians at Best Buy. But he in the, was it, when did Biden get elected 2020? he multiple times on Facebook was sharing things that were clearly from parody sites. I don't know if he recognized it or not, but it just, the messaging of what it was aligned with how maybe he was feeling. He's a very smart man, how he was feeling whatever it may be, and how easy is it to share. But then three more people share it and nine more people share it. And it just, this cascading tsunami of literal bullshit that, and maybe it was intended as humor that somehow it gets more. morphed a little bit and starts gets taken seriously, man, if we can't get people to take a little

bit of a breath to critically think their way through it, to maybe bounce it off of some other sources. Or maybe it was created by Putin's IRA, the internet research agency that they had, which is a bunch of, you know, Russian kids who with good English skills, who run fake book accounts and just start fires. I mean, ultimately, what's one of the best, the best, the best strategies, low-cost strategy against any adversary, chaos. Yeah. Just create chaos. You know, and they, they love to do it to us.

We do it to them. You know, I mean, it's, it's true. We're always above board. Always. We don't do any of the things that we would accuse any other people of doing ever as a country. Never. Yeah. People seem to forget that, too.

Yeah. I don't, you know, we're not, uh, whatever people's personal beliefs are, you know, when the country as a whole gets to the old pearly gate. There might be some questions about behavior. Probably. But because we're just a collection of people. Yeah. Right?

I mean, people everywhere are really not that different. So, yeah, if we figure out how to get people to say, hey, look, think about how is somebody trying to manipulate you? And what's fascinating me, especially... I would take it a step farther and say, first off, recognize and realize that there is value from individuals. were organizations in their attempt to manipulate you. That's a good point. They are incentivized to do so. That's the starting point right there.

Yeah. Yeah. And the thing, too, with like the older generation like your dad, your dad will know if he's being manipulated in the physical world. Yes. Right? He'll probably call somebody out on it, but probably has no concept of whether or not he's being manipulated online.

I can't confirm that 100%. Yeah. So, and, you know, my parents are the same. So they didn't grow up with these technologies, but we also didn't grow up with these technologies. And I mean, look around the world. I don't have a lot of hope for the younger generation, but now I'm really old because I'm sure every old guy before me said exactly the same thing. It's true. But it's people understanding, yes, there's a lot of value in manipulating you.

There's a lot of value to somebody. And the only question is whether or not you're going to participate in that manipulation. And even if you are being manipulated, you know, people, are going to share things. They're going to do all these different, these different things. When I did that, that YouTube video about very specific statements that a actor made around that whole adrenachrome conspiracy theory, and I, and I stated, you know, pharmacology and biochemistry, still it was like, oh, well, those chemicals act different in, in some people's bodies than they do in others. Hmm

It's complex Yeah Really You know Where did you nest this video I need Michael to pull this up So people can find it too It's uh

It's on it's on my YouTube page There's not very many videos there It's just Can you say that? Do you mean deliver funds? No, Nicks So at the Nick McKinley

Because they didn't want to harm I like the algorithms On deliver funds So I tend The algorithm's Yeah We owe him a lot We do

We do We really do You pull it up here Oh he will Probably Your YouTube channel's called that Yeah, it's the Nick McKinley. There's only, I think, two videos or something like that on it.

But the point is, I was like, cool, like, here's the science. Here's the, here's the indisputable fact. Don't confuse people with the facts. Yeah, and people are like, oh, well, how do you know you're not a... I don't, motherfucker. That's why I had a doctor come on and talk about this, who specializes in this. Yeah, well, she didn't want to give her identity because she didn't want to get attacked by all the freaking weirdos. That's sad.

You know, but that's the world we live in. So I was like, cool. shit, Michael? I'll get attacked by the weirdos because it happens all the time anyway. What was the video called? Man. You did a real good job of just really having this stuff consumer facing. It's really easy for people to find.

But you see what I mean? The trinochrome stuff? Yeah. Let me see. Yeah. This one right here. It's that second one. Oh, I did find that channel, actually.

It was yours, though. See, my brain wanted to jump to the. conclusion of I'm being shadow banned, but I didn't say it. A lot of people think that they are shadow banned and they just put out a lot of boring stuff. Yeah, they just put out content that nobody wants to watch. Correct. It's not that you're shadow banned. It's just that nobody cares.

Yeah. So I put this out. I'm like, hey, here's the science. Don't argue with me. Don't argue with the science. You want to debate this publicly. Let's do it. You guys want to watch all seven minutes in this?

No. We'll let people find it there. Yeah. But the point, the point is that it's, uh, you, like nobody really cares i don't think and i actually think you see this in the soft community too because you've got a lot of the soft guys that are going on the q and on freaking train and i think that they just love to fight so much that they just want a fight and and if you know if if you can have some big dragon to slay well go pursue that big dragon my big dragon that i'm trying

to slay is child predators and societal predators right like that's what i'm going after But if you don't have that, well, then you create the big dragon. And that now gives you the sense of meaning and purpose for you to go after. So I think, I mean, I think that that's kind of, again, a long way of saying that rough patch on AI. It's going to cause a lot of chaos, a lot of chaos until we get that figured out. I just hope the government doesn't overcorrect because it's been known to do that a bit. I don't know how much more tolerance people have for the government overcorrecting. I'm worried about this.

Yeah, that's a good point. I'm worried about that. I mean, I've heard people say, again, not to make this whole thing about conspiracies, but you've heard plenty of people say that COVID was a test and the government's ability to control you. Yeah. My thought on that is, let's assume, let's start this from the premise that everything you're saying is correct, that it was in fact manufactured, meaning the pandemic itself as a metric of taking control, taking away liberties, taking away freedoms. people started rebelling against that six to eight weeks in in most places there are some of course like just enclaves of individuals that they're going to do what they're told to do like that is their thing whatever live your life the way that you want to using montana as an example i am not sure how montana montanans would respond if covid-24 came around and the government again

and recommended lockdowns. I think more likely than not, people would say, I'll take option B, which is you eating a bag of dicks. So their attempt to establish even more control actually backfired because I think people are just exhausted by the amount of control that the government already has. Whether people want to admit it or not, we have a pretty libertarian culture in this country. And people really don't like being told what to do. And the experience through the two plus years of the COVID pandemic, I don't think that they would be able to replicate it. And then, of course, the other side of that is, fuck, what if there is a COVID-24? And it actually does have the death rate that they were throwing the numbers around for COVID-19.

And people don't want to pay attention because of what happened previously. And then we're kind of proper fucked as well. Both sides of that coin suck. Consequences. You know, I mean, we're just, we're going to, I just, I just don't. don't think that two things can be true at once, right? So you can have a virus manufacturer in a lab. Yep.

But that doesn't mean it's intentionally released, right? I do believe the former, and I don't think that the latter happened intentionally. I do 100% believe that the United States was funding gain of function research. Yep. Even though. I mean, that's documented. At this point, it really is. Even though we said we weren't.

So, of course, we found a different way to do it, much like some people of the agency or W-2 and some are 1099. They would never do the same job. Never. Come on. You would never have a contractor doing inherently government functions. But we don't have that many, you know, government employees. Okay, well, let's bring in the contractors. No, no, no. We don't need to talk about that. It's, you know, so we can find a way to obscure what we're doing. It wouldn't surprise me at all if it was 100% manufactured, accidentally leaked and got completely fucking out of hand. Yeah. And I actually think the world would have responded better to it if they were just upfront and honest as opposed to layer after layer after because when nobody knew anything, they're going

to believe what they're being told because they haven't seen it firsthand. A year into that, when people are seeing the opposite of what government officials were saying and there was no consensus in the medical community, you could find 50 doctors that said one thing and 50 that found another. What the hell is the non-educated non-medical professional supposed to fucking believe when there's no consensus inside of the medical community? Yeah. Like, okay, I guess I'm a doctor today.

I mean, I watched a little bit of house. I guess I'm a little bit, you know, two semesters towards my MD. I think if they would have just told the truth, then it might have actually, if they, well, well, told the truth. It would have been less of an exercise in control if they would have told the truth, but it would have maintained their ability to try to pull some shit like that in the future. Because I think, I think that rounds out of the barrel. But I think this goes back to the original point that you made, which is,

they, the proverbial they, right? The government, media companies, whatever. I still don't know what a fucking cabal is, but I love that word. Let's start one. Michael, can you look up cabal for me, please? So at least I can use it improperly. Intentionally. If they would just stop doing such shady things, just stay out of it.

Yeah, that's the problem. Like Jay Bottacharya, right, probably one of the foremost experts on this issue. I mean, I think the guys have PhD. An intriguer. Oh, there we go. A cabal. A secret scheme or plot. Is a conspirator group of plotters or intrigues.

I, from here on out, will call myself an intriguer, because I'm intrigued by things. So together we're a cabal. There we go. Done. Michael, are you intrigued by things? Generally, yes. Do you want to join our cabal? You'll join.

Okay. You can come up with a name. It doesn't have to be right now. You can think deeply over it. And then we'll make a bumper sticker or a t-shirt. Okay, sounds right. There we go. But you heard it here first.

Cucks are us. No. Close. That's an 80% solution. I'll refine it as it gets closer to the end. For sure. I'm not against Cucks being in there. Okay.

If we could make an abbreviation that was something like CIA, Cucks in action. I would be okay with that. That's actually probably the 95% solution right there. That's really good, actually. I would wear a shirt that said CIA and under it. Cucks in action. Oh, you kidding. And have to have to.

Fuck. Rush to trade. mark that right now, but we have until the first before the step-hap episode comes out. Have the people at the agency be wearing that shirt underneath their button-ups. I mean, there's a broad range of apparel and merchandise that could go with that. I'm really liking. Yeah. It could go far.

It could go far. What the fuck are we talking about? It's a good question. We were talking about, oh, people stop doing suspicious things. Yeah, doing shady stuff. So, you know, when you look at the Great Barrington Declaration that J. Bata Charya wrote, Dr. Batacharia, probably one of the foremost experts in this issue, right? I mean, in pandemics and economics. I mean, the guy's got a PhD and essentially both of them. So teaches Stanford, he and a bunch of doctors get together. The way the doctors are supposed to do, they write the paper.

They're like, here's what we think you should do based on data. And no one's heard of it. You can't find it. that's that's why people think everybody's doing shady crap right it's because it's because there are things like that happening instead of just like hey if if we believe in you know in our economy is a capitalist economy we're like okay the government's supposed to have a light touch and you're just supposed to let the system flow why wouldn't we do the same thing with information because information is a currency that is being essentially traded in an economy in this modern world so why wouldn't we just have government's hands off of it. And it's like, yes, there's going to be misinformation. There's going to be

misinformation. There's going to be really good information. There's going to be all of that, though, too, even with government intervention. Absolutely. So government, just stay out of it. So then we don't have to find out five years later that when somebody buys a social media company, that you are actively routing the constitution to try to meet your ends. And I mean, part of me I kind of get it because you're telling me you never put forward a purchase order. at a seal team that was like, you knew exactly what you wanted and you knew exactly what company you wanted it from, but you couldn't write it up that way. So you wrote it up in a way, so they were the only ones who could possibly get it.

Don't know what you're talking about. No idea. No idea. And so when you look at it through that lens, it's like, all right, well, if the government would just stay out and just let the system work itself out. because it kind of always does as long as the government stays out of it. The problems really happen when the government gets in, and they create a problem, and then they tell you not to look over there, and then they cover up that problem, and they create another problem, and it's like, well, wait a minute, if you're doing that,

what else are you doing? We want to see behind this whole curtain. I think the biggest problem is that government now has become a career and occupation, as opposed to a service to your fellow American. Right. I think until we can boot people after a short period of time. Term limits are a thing. I don't know if it's going to function well outside of that.

I mean, if you can enter into the system and your net worth is damn near guaranteed to explode. How does that happen? Who is that investor? Because I want to give them some of my money. Well, yeah, there's a few. I'm sure it's all above board. I'm sure that they're eating the best wealth managers in the history of wealth managers. Wasn't Epstein a wealth manager on paper?

I actually don't know. I think he was something like that. That's why Gates was talking to him. Do you think that they will ever release the full details of how many politicians and people in power that person was in communication with or facilitated travel or meetings with? Or what intelligence agency he was working for? That's a bold claim, sir. That is a bold claim. Yeah. Speaking of conspiracies, I don't think it'll ever happen.

That's unfortunate because until something like that does happen, I think it erodes trust and integrity. Because, again, you tell us that you're not doing anything shady. However, I have multiple things that I can point to that appear to be shady, that appear to be ongoing, and you're serving your own best interests as opposed to the interest of those you're supposed to serve. Right. Maybe get fucked. Yeah. Do you think that's driving a balkanization of our country? Man. Yes. I guess the bigger question for me, is, is it intentional or is it a byproduct of the system gone awry?

I think it's a byproduct of the system got a ride. I agree with you that it's, that's what's happening. I mean, I meet so many people who move here and they essentially claim that they are political refugees. They're moving here from California. What a pick-a-blue state, right? And I've met a couple of people who were leaving Montana. I'm like, why are you leaving?

This one woman told me there's too many guns, too many pickup trucks, too many American flags. I'm out of here. And I was like, okay. That's, uh, maybe for her, that's not her jam. But cool. But the point is that people want to be around like people. And that is, that is tail as old as time. And so people are going to, I mean, you already see it as people start kind of migrating.

So what happens when a state like Texas, which is a donor state to the federal government, does not need a thing from the federal government tells the federal government to go kick rocks when the next 2024 comes along? I mean, so this is why. It's a question I don't want to know the answer to, actually. This is why I say that the, we're in for a rough patch, I think. I think, yeah. Yeah. You know, there's just no. But that also hopefully will cause people to stop looking to the government to solve all their problems.

How dare you? That's why the government exists. Right? Wait a minute. It's not. Government. I'm pretty sure it says by the people for the people. for the people.

Pretty sure. I love Glover's model be your own first responder. Or maybe that's 30 seconds out. I don't fucking know. I got cool friends who do cool shit. And one of their mottoes is be your own first responder. Yeah, who is that?

It's either Glover or Evan at 30 seconds out. I thought that was 30 seconds out where they were... I think 30 seconds out is be prepared to self-rescue. Oh, yeah, you're right. I think Glover is be your own first responder. Yeah. And you look at what Glover's doing.

That's awesome. I mean, so... And this is an example. And I don't care if you're one of the freaking soft guys who are like, I hate that guy because he was on my team and whatever. Right. Like, it doesn't matter anymore. And also, don't forget, somebody hates you too. Yeah.

So, like, none of that matters anymore. There are certain people, I think Evan, right? That fair? Yeah. Oh, that's going to stick. Right? But you look at what he did. Like, that's awesome.

Yeah. That is a model for people to follow. It will be as soon as he apologizes to Kyle, which is like a post or something that I see on almost every Kyle Rittenhouse. Apparently, he knows him an apology for something. Sure. Okay. Yeah, because, you know, hey, I think it was Steve Jobs who said you can police some of the people some of the time, right? So just.

But never all the people all the time. No. So just keep marching. You know, what Mike has done, what Glover is done, what Glover is done, what Sorrelli is doing, even what Jocko is doing, right? I mean, you look at that. It's like, hey, look, I don't care if you served with these people and you like them, you don't like them.

It doesn't matter, right? Look at the outcome. Look at the things that they are doing. Evan had a thing that he wanted to do, right? And it's using that platform. I mean, I don't follow him closely, but at least in the early days, was trying to use that platform to better society. I think he still is.

Okay. Amen, brother. Frickin' continue on, right? Continue mission. Mike realized that hey you got a bunch of Americans who quite frankly were the power grade to go out and Amazon to stop you know two day delivery problem like we're going to see we're going to see some real problems let's let's start solving that problem and and instead of just complaining about it and talking about it actually started moving his feet to solve the problem I like to think I'm kind of the same thing on the on the fight against human trafficking side right so there's so many many different examples of picking a problem and then attacking that problem, which is quite frankly no different than what we did overseas. Yeah.

Right? So it's just a different way of doing things. Same skill set, different end state as always. Yeah. And same mindset. Yeah. So that's a great example of doing that. And then actually developing, so you look at what Glover did with his book, actually developing

the expertise to be credible enough to write a book. that actually makes sense and can help people advance the ball down the field. And really, I think, where we are as a country where we've really lost things is we're no longer, we're no longer self-reliant, kind of take it back to childhood trauma piece, right? I mean, and that's a lot of people across our country. And so we're incentivizing victimhood. And if we could just incentivize the self-reliance, hey, Evan went and built a freaking massive content company that happens to sell coffee.

that was super smart. You can do that too. Hey, Mike happened to go have this idea and built a whole company around it. You can go do that too. Anybody wants to fight human trafficking and create their own deliver fund. Like, I will totally help you with that and show you how to do it.

And we'll give you back end technology. Well, not give you, but we'll help you with license it. Let's not get crazy here. Right. But with back end technology and data and like, cool, you want to help your local law enforcement.

you know, if you're going to be some rogue vigilante, we're going to tell you to kick rocks. But if you are, if you're going to do it the right way, cool, we'll help you do that. So, so like, just as a group of individuals in society, helping everybody else. And I mean, or is it a rising tide lifts all boats, you know, and it seems like there's too many people who just want to lower the bridge. Yeah. And I wonder if people fail to realize that the more resilient and self-reliant you become, the less acceptable you are to that manipulation because you don't have to look to everybody else to solve the problems or for information and answers. I mean, those are the things I think about at night sometimes when I can't sleep.

Like, is it actually, is there a cabal behind the scenes who has this architecture to make people so pinned into a corner thinking they have to rely on everybody and everything else and that they're not capable of any is like, is that the actual end state? Well, sure. I mean, isn't the World Economic Forum basically a type of cabal that has a end state that they are trying to drive towards? They say some weird shit at that. Right, right, right. So, I mean, so yes, but that doesn't make it a conspiracy. That just makes it a bunch of people that are trying to drive towards their goals. Yeah.

So cool. Why are we, if that's your issue and you want to counter them, well, then build an organization to counter them. Like Cox in Action. Sure. Like our Cabal. Like our Cabal. Currently there's three, but much like... It's three strong.

Much like the movie The Hangover. You know, at first, I thought I was a lone wolf, and then I found two other wolves, and my wolf pack grew to three. Michael can write the bylaws of Cox and Action. Oh, wait, we have to... We have bylaws? Oh, yeah, we have to cut our hands after this.

No. Cut the hands, I'm fine. They're like, bylaws, I'm out. I'm out. Jesus. Fuck, this is supposed to be a Friday episode. It's like over an hour and a half. What do you want to end it on?

That's what editing is for. We don't do that shit here. All right. That's expensive. What do we want to end on? What do you want to end on? What do you want to end on? Bring it back to deliver fun.

So we started with no doubt everybody's heard, seen whatever, the sound of freedom movie. Maybe you've seen it. Maybe you haven't. I'm not going to opine on it. And regardless of what you think about it, anybody out there, the movie's not the point. The point is child trafficking is real. It happens in the United States of America, and there are people who are fighting it. Law enforcement is one of those groups.

Deliver Fund is one of those groups. National Center for Missing Exploited Children, right, different people. We created an app to put in the hands of the individual parents. Law enforcement officer who thinks that, oh man, this car I just pulled over, something shady here, let me run a phone number through this and see if it comes back positive. Paramedic who sees what appears to be a heroin-addicted prostitute. on the side of the road, gets a phone number from her, runs her it, yep, sure enough, pops up on a commercial sex advertisement, can call in the proper authorities to get

her the services that she needs and find out who is trafficking her because independent prostitution on the street doesn't really happen. So this app exists, regardless of what walk a life you're in, to empower you to be able to search very specific data points, which are pretty ubiquitous to people for connections to human trafficking activity. So the first would be go download the app. And the second thing, and I rant just a little bit here, you know how many positive comments we get after these kinds of podcasts and things like that?

I mean, you see them. I mean, yes, there's the crazy people. Yeah. There's that one that keeps emailing us, which is, quite frankly, your ability to troll is world-class, sir. Thank you. And I have initiated legal proceedings against that particular individual. Really? Holy smokes.

Got a little wild. So what was the chicken and egg? Was it, did she start? Was she emailing you before? Yep. Oh, really? So you drug us in and here I was feeling bad thinking we drug you in. It doesn't, I don't feel bad anymore.

She puts on like the chief of police at KPD. Oh, yeah. It's insane. Senators, congressmen, it's crazy. Sometimes I get a little sassy and I want to write back. Very few people have seen my responses. Don't share them with the world. I definitely won't.

But the point. is that we get lots of positive comments, lots of likes, things like that. Like, jump in. Like, if you, if you have a financial capacity to donate five bucks a month, please do. Like, these servers that make this stuff spin are not, are not cheap. These supercomputers are not cheap. Like, help us out because we're actively trying to protect society. Like, we're trying to protect, not just my kids, but by building technologies and tools and doing the work that protects my kids, it also helps to protect everybody else's. So what I'd ask is, is, you know, if even 20% of the people listening to this actually just chipped in,

we would be able to take these technologies so much, so much farther, so much faster. Yeah. So get in the fight and help out, and it's not everybody's calling to start fighting human trafficking full time. Good God, do not start a nonprofit. Like, I will talk you out of that. But chip in. Be a force multiplier for good. Yeah.

Yeah. Where would you point people towards? Obviously, the App Store for whatever device. App Store for the app. About supporting Deliver Fund in general. So you can find us on all social media channels at Deliver Fund. You can find me at the Deliver Fund. I'm sorry, at the Nick McKinley.

Changed it. And then just go to our website, deliverfund.org, forward slash donate, and click the donate button. And, yeah, donate what you can. And consider joining Cucks in action. I mean, if it gets big enough, we could really drive some change. Let's leave people with that