Cleared Hot - Powered By BRCC - Unfiltered Truths: Mike Glover & Evan Hafer - Politics, Surprising Success Stories, the Perfect Brew

Episode Date: May 5, 2023

Mike Glover and Evan Hafer delve into a myriad of topics that encompass the current political environment, social issues, entrepreneurship, the incredible accomplishments of individuals with low IQs, and naturally, coffee. Mike Glover, a former Green Beret, and Evan Hafer, a former Army Special Forces soldier, share their unique perspectives on the complex world we live in today. Drawing from their vast military and business experiences, they offer invaluable insights into the challenges and opportunities that arise within the spheres of politics and society. In addition to their thoughtful analysis of contemporary issues, Mike and Evan discuss the often-overlooked achievements of those with low IQs, shedding light on the incredible potential of every individual. Furthermore, our guests explore the world of entrepreneurship, sharing the lessons they've learned and the principles they've applied in their respective businesses. And, of course, no conversation with the CEO of Black Rifle Coffee Company would be complete without a stimulating discussion about coffee. From sourcing the finest beans to the art of brewing, Evan shares his passion for the beverage which has become an integral part of his life and business. Sign up for the new G14 newsletter here: https://www.clearedhotpodcast.com/exclusive Check out the newest Cleared Hot Gear here: https://shop.clearedhotpodcast.com/  

Okay, got the red smoke. Gun runs. North and south. West of the smoke. West up of smoke. Okay, coffee. West of the smoke. I'm looking at danger close now.

Is it safe to take the ketone esters and coffee? Yeah, it's perfect action. It fucking fires you up. Oh, you just give them to us and you don't have one. Throw that thing. Throw that thing to them. I'm not going to lie to you. That's one of the worst things I've ever used to.

It's fucking disgusting. It's gross. Are they up front about that? Yes. They say, hey, like, this is going to do great things for you? but you're going to have to choke it down. Yeah. Yeah.

Just the smell makes me going to fucking have. I made the mistake of smelling it too. The whole thing. Thank you, sir. Kim. Kim. Kim. Thank you, Kim.

What the fuck is going on here with this coffee pot? This is fucking embarrassing. It's trash. It's fucking embarrassing. You know, the only way it would be worse it was at French Press. If only I had a friend in my network that did coffee, really baller with the coffee equipment.

No, if only. If only, if only you, I was just one. text away is to what what espresso what espresso machine should I fucking put in my house. Do you still use that spin one? No broke. I bought my I bought one right after saying

that's a you're the one he told me that was a good one. That is a good one. Yeah. It's never use it because that's easy. I mean it's kind of like like when I learned how to drive a truck Hey guys what do you guys want to talk about? Why don't you guys

do, didn't you guys, you guys were originally going to do kick-ups? They do. We do. Jesus Christ, man. Do you even pay attention? I have never seen a fucking cake-up. Do you have kick-ups in your BR-CC?

Oh, my God. Dude, Evan, I show up here two days ago. Oh, my God. I'm wearing a Fieldcraft survival shirt that he doesn't recognize. And he looks at it and he goes, oh, that's awesome. Where'd you get that? And I'm like, I'm a member of your T-shirt. Fucking idiot.

That's true. That did happen. You have too much going on. I don't have it. anything going on. You've never seen a BRCC K cup. They're all over the fucking place. That's not what I meant. There were racks of them at the coffee shop. I

literally made one yesterday at headquarters because we have your K cups. I meant that version. Oh, cleared hot. Oh, yeah. No, no, no. The, the Nispros. Yeah, but it's like the yeah, it's not a cake cup. Yeah, it's not a cake up. That version of it is whatever.

There's not, there's just not that many people out there that drink it. Like that kind of, yeah. It's just not. And honestly, But what do you prefer? I mean, in personal selection. If I have the choice between a K-cup and espresso pot, it's always an espresso pod.

But if I have a choice between ground coffee, espresso or K-cup, it's always ground coffee. 100% of the time. With a poor bean. Yeah, of course. Like it's 100%. I like espresso because I like shit in my pants in the morning. That's just what I'm a fan of.

Yeah, yeah. Dude, that shit, I had to stop drinking it because I had damage to my intestinal tract from pooping five times a day. drinks are serious. The espresso pods? Yes. Huh. Interesting.

I feel like we need to have a medical intervention because have you had one of those? I don't know. Yes. I use syrup. And you don't want poop? Do you drink it out of a fimbol? Are you trying to concentrate? I have superior Korean genetics.

No. I think you're, I think you guys have Somalia. I think you're stacking. I think you're stacking. You don't stack kimchi on espresso. That's what you don't do. There's like,

there's certain rules of the road when it comes to clean shorts. Don't stack kimchi on espresso. There's a reason I eat kimchi for breakfast every morning. I sometimes do. I do. I just like fermented vegetables. Oh man. I do. I do love kimchi. Where's that? I got to get to show you guys the salt. Can you hear me that? The salt thing right there. I was checking those out. Yeah. The cylinder thing. You're saying this has got some heat to it, right? Dude, I don't. This, this just showed up. Have I seen this? No. So this guy takes this salt. It's called firecracker farm. Okay.

And he puts the salt infused with ghost pepper in that. So you get all the spice. Taste it. It's actually really good. This is a thing. You put salt in your coffee. I was going to say people are laughing about it. They've never seen somebody salt their coffee.

It actually is not uncommon. It's actually legit. I need a little bit more. Hey, Kim, can you hit me with a spoon? Thanks, Doc. Appreciate it. Ooh. You never salted your coffee?

Oh, I have before. Yeah, I can kill the bitterness. I'm a fan. My grandpa used to do this thing that I love, which is, he used to put salt in his beer. Really? All the time, yeah. My grandma used to take crushed ice and put salt on crushed ice. That's good.

And eat the crushed ice with salt on it. Oh, interesting. Yeah. She died really young. She died really young. Is that a Korean thing? Dude, it's a white Georgia thing. I like that.

What is that? I like that. It's, no, that thing. I like that a lot. Dude, it is amazing. So it's called Firecracker Farms is the name of the thing, but it's called the hot pepper or the, Jose, I'm screwing that up, man.

I don't even know. He's got to find out for me. Speaking of Korean stuff, we have to address the elephant in the room here. Yeah, yeah. When you went on Tucker Carlson, were you just trying to look as Asian as humanist? Dude, it's the angles.

Those guys had me at weird angles. They had me samurai out. I'm like, this show is racist. No wonder Tucker got kicked off the air. He got kicked off the air because that. I feel like supposedly. Tata blade and we're shaving your fucking head. And you had like had a picture of Mr. Miyagi up and your inspiration cork board thing.

So true. I saw that picture. I was like, Mike, what the fuck, dude? I was very samurai in that. Yeah.

Supposedly that's why Tucker had to go. Is that what it was? That was the controversy. Something about Asians. I was starting hitting you with math questions. It was fun. Tucker's play. You know,

you've done Tucker before. Yeah. Have you done his late night show? No. I did the hour line. The daylight. The main, or the Florida?

So the Florida one, his damn, and I love this because he just got attacked on this where they said, they claimed like, all these people were in a hostile work environment. And this lady who did the lawsuit hasn't even met Tucker.

She worked for the staff, but his staff is so big at the network, but he literally only works with a handful of people. And the room is the size of this kitchen. It's like small. I mean, the size of this studio, this advanced studio. And it's small. It's like, I was like, underwhelmed by how simple it was.

I loved it. It was so cool. Yeah. He thinks the next best move for him. I hope it's independent. I hope he's independent. Yeah. I don't know.

Does he only have a podcast? He, I think he did for a while because he, he had something in, it was like the Daily Report or one of these. I forget exactly what, what his point. Daily caller. The daily collar. That's what it was. So maybe he immersed himself,

immerses himself completely into that. Maybe he goes over to... Daily wire. Daily wire, rumble. I don't know. I mean, the world kind of like, he can kind of go anywhere he wants to. And crush it.

He will. He'll absolutely crush it. If he doesn't have a podcast, he could start one in a YouTube channel and have like four million subscribers over time. He had 74 million views on that tweet that he did for that, whatever, that his response,

where he said, see you soon, which is a really legitimate, like a legitimate conversation where he cannot ask anybody anything without somebody being emotionally charged and acting insane. And all of a sudden, if you do that, then every network on the left tries to cancel you, which is what they try to do. CNN is, I mean, CNN talked about the reason he got fired in speculation was because a January 6th line. Like he was lying about January 6th. He hasn't lied about anything, according to January 6th. He even reported facts and showed video from the Capitol Hill police that weren't released to the public and the Capitol Hill police never saw.

And where they show them, escort them through the building and all that stuff. And for some reason, anything he says is attacked by the, we know this, but it's like, it's hard. I think anytime you don't fit a narrative, you know, you're going to. to be beat up by one side or the other, right? It's just the way life is. And I think, one, he's hilarious. Like, the guy could probably go into stand-up tomorrow and have an incredible career.

Super intelligent and funny. Really funny, down to earth, really nice guy, great family. Like, I went out to Maine and great host. Like, we just had dinner like normal people with everybody that was there, meaning like, people think of these these I guess talking heads and probably a lot of them

they're really pretentious they're aloof they're completely disconnected from reality we're having dinner with like his friends from Maine like long table and a barn yeah and I think there's something to be said about just people having an opinion understanding the difference between facts and opinion

and then saying it's okay you can disagree with people it's totally fine that's that's like kind of life you're going to disagree with a lot of different people and then when you don't like something then you can just be enraged all the time. What is this like? The internet is, I shouldn't say it's the internet.

It's like social media has created a platform for a cacophony of fucking retards to just continue to run their mouths all the time. And you don't know if they're like 14 or 56. Who cares? But at the end of the day, it's like guys like Tucker aren't going anywhere. he's not he's not going anywhere he's a permanent fixture it might be better for him i think he actually

you're talking about getting attacked by the left i mean for better or worse i don't really don't give a shit where people get their news because i actually think it's completely biased in the direction it is but him being attached to fox news he's going to elicit a response just because of that attachment it's not even necessarily the message it's the knee-jerk response in the other direction just like they do you know the right does back towards the left so yeah he might be better off in the long run anyway doing his own thing well there's there's this thing right where I think about it all the time where just for people to be people, where we can sit around and have conversation,

and it's fairly controversial, depending on the people that are listening to it, but it's really not. I went back and I was, I was watching some old South Park episodes, not too long ago. It's like, those guys have been in business for 20 plus years with a cartoon, and they've been pushing it from politically,

correctness, they've been pushing it across the line for 20 plus years. Yeah. There's a huge voice of Americans that are just like, yeah, it's funny. Shut the fuck up. Who cares? Like, this, this, like, outrage mafia that just kind of continues to be, I guess, overwhelmed with just information. And then they think that whatever they say is substantive and it creates value.

Part of it, I think, is just sport for internet losers. And it's, it's. One, it's pretty easy just to mute because you're like, oh, whatever, who cares? You know, move on with our lives. But after a while, you're like, yeah, it's just kind of stupid. There's just like this continuing, it doesn't evolve. It just goes down further and further and further. And people are watching less and less information.

And there's less interest. People aren't even interested in seeing it. They just want to be like, yeah, I'm outraged. Like the Bud Light thing. I was thinking about this, a butt light thing. I'm like, don't buy Bud Light. Like, who the fuck cares? Like, why these people getting so mad?

Like, okay, dude, it's funny. It's actually kind of funny to me where, yeah, people are outraged and it's creating billions and billions and billions of views for Bud Light specifically. Yeah. Just vote with your wallet, man. Just vote with your wallet. You walk into a grocery store and all you have to do is literally take the Bud Light out of your refrigerator, throw it in the garbage.

go to the grocery store and buy something else. Which if you're listening, you should do anyway because it's piss. It's just garbage. It's just garbage. I haven't drank Bud Light since like 1990. Like never. Like I've never drank that shit. It's garbage.

What do you typically, are you more into like soju? Are you just stick to soju? Any kind of rice wine, rice based. You know what's funny is Anheiser Bush, all the beer that Americans drink is rice-based. It's all grain. It's rice grain. Is it really? All of them.

All the most pop, because they, you know, The grain industry can't keep up with the demand of beer. But rice can. So a lot of the rice is actually imported. Are you sure? I swear I've seen Budweiser commercials that are like those fucking Clydesdale's running for wheat. Yeah. They're running over Asians in rice patties.

That's what they were doing. I have not seen that commercial. I haven't seen that. Is that an Asian specific? Yeah. If they did make that commercial on top of their current controversy, that might be. It's on lively. But lights piss, but I agree with you.

The whole controversy is dramatic and nobody cares. You know, but I actually want to ask you guys, because I don't... The jokes are hilarious out of it, though. The memes are funny. The memes are funny. I have never... We obviously live on purpose in our own little echo chambers because it makes us happy. Not me. Yeah, you totally.

Andy's miserable. You're totally inclusive. But I've always... seeing the, like the outrage, the, the transsexual outrage dude at, you know, protesting for, you know, the right for children to get transitions. All those things that I see on social, I never see in real life. I have, no. So I'm not, and so the thing that I actually ask myself a lot is when we see the social media stuff, like I started doing, me and John, my media guy, I started doing prep life in the basement. And the concept was, the concept was,

was I was going to do prep life a couple times a week, talk about the things that are important in news, kind of distill the news, talk about how it relates to preparedness, things that relate to people that are important that we think are to people. It's called prep life in the basement? It is. It's prep life, but it's definitely in the basement. Two Koreans in the basement. Two Koreans with Mike.

Potentially, some butt fucking guy. No, there's none of that. I knew he was going to go there. None of that. We have the sentry this whole thing. It can't be on Spotify, Apple. Just kidding, it can be. But when I went down the basement of my own house and we talked about it, I was like, I want to be at home.

I don't want to be in L.A. in a studio. I want to be at my house with my kids running around upstairs. And so when I did that, I thought about Tucker and how he's built his infrastructure because he's so, like these people who, thought it was the dominion thing. None of the things that were brought to the case had anything to do with Tucker Carlson, by the way. Like all the conscience, in fact, the lady who was the controversial subject

of the investigation for voter fraud and their case, which they had a profound case, obviously, because Fox News paid out $787,87 million. Tucker Carlson denied her in a text and said, I'm not going to have her on the show. Like, there's nothing vetted about this.

I don't trust this. So his way of operating, which is his character, his ethics, his morality, and his ability to kind of operate in a small team allows him to distance himself

from the bullshit. The world gets outraged on the left when he says something, but in his family, in his home, none of that affects him. And I'm taking lessons because I used to pay attention

to all the bullshit that people said because I thought it was my responsibility. And then I realized people are fucking crazy. You can't look into the world. You've been pretty good at it. You actually have trained me a little bit on it where you're like, dude, don't do that.

And if you engage... That's not what I said. Something like that. Pick and choose. Pick and choose. Trolling people on the internet is not something you should completely get rid of. No.

It should be a honed craft like a scalpel coming across. You literally just did that yesterday. I just saw a recent of yesterday. Occasionally, I will do that. Yeah. If the opportunity presents, itself. Oftentimes it's in the Black Wifle Coffee comment section. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. So we just here's the lesson learns. We just need to continue to insulate and be able to disseminate that information out into the world and if people like it, they pick it up. If they don't, they lay it down. I would change that. Don't insulate. I would say

isolate yourself and provide yourself distance. Yeah. That's key. Well, maybe you mean a different term of isolate, but I think if you only surround yourself with the echo chamber and you're not aware of what's going on, that can be bad, but isolate yourself from people's ability to actually interact with you directly. Not everybody should have a single point of contact directly to anybody, really, you know.

And that's the feature of media. I mean, mainstream media, I think even Don Lemon leaving CNN, which you put on the left side, obviously, and Tucker leaving on the right side, Dan Bonino left a week before because they couldn't get through his contract. I think everybody's just realized with Tucker leaving, if you were a conservative, that mainstream media is completely compromised. I mean, there's nothing left. I don't think there's one voice of reason. I think you have an IQ that has two digits. You probably realized it was compromised before that.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what's the future of media? YouTube? I think it's constantly evolving. Yeah. You know, podcast.

How old is podcasting? 10 plus years? Yeah. Yeah, it's longer than that. It's 20. YouTube, spot. Yeah, it's 20. I started a podcast

of nearly a decade ago. Wow. And I was, there was only, when I started a podcast and there was a couple thousand podcast. And nobody thought it was, move the needle on anything. I just thought it was fun.

Yeah, but now there's like, so Spotify has video, audio, YouTube, obviously, you could host your own platform and post it to all of those or audio only, depending on what your entry level you want to spend on equipment,

getting into it. I've heard the term rumble, but I know there's a bunch of other versions, of that? Like, it's difficult because it's almost like everybody's partitioning people's attention and it's, and it's difficult to get past the screen time. Like we're doing it an app for Philcraft, but the app's TV, mostly TV based so we could pull people's attention that would normally be watching TV and they can get education.

But if you try to compete in the app space, there's only three major players. I mean, it's going to be Facebook, Instagram, and Snapchat. Right. I mean, YouTube is somewhere in there. as well, but it's difficult. Speaking of a podcast, this is the reintroduction of the Black Rifle Coffee podcast.

Can you talk about, because I've got asked the question, like podcasts gone offline for a period of time. Things have, have changed, changed, evolved. Changed it. Change it. They changed it. That's finesse Korean, guys. Thanks for being racist again.

That's how we say it in our native tongue. Change it. I think none of us were really that happy with. I think, you know, we've, we've really tried to think about it as something that we, we wanted to do on a weekly, on a weekly basis with, you know, BRCC and the, you know, myself, Matt and Jared, Logan. And then the last year, we've been so busy that it's kind of taken, it's, it's not even the back burner. It's like way in the back burner. And if you're going to do something, we need to do it right. And we also need to be able to do it with the people that people want to listen to. So, You know, we've spent some time over the last couple months, just trying to figure out what do we want this thing to be when it grows up. And thank goodness we have, you know, good partners and good listeners because, you know, I think that we owe them a really good show. And when I say good, it's not like quality information because, I mean, it's just like most of us, the three of us talking shit. But it became something where it was like, we have to do this.

We have to have somebody, you know, doing it all the time. And I want it to be, I want it to be something that's creating value in people's lives, whether it's, you know, substantive information that's going to help somebody or make them laugh or just make them feel like they're sitting at the table shooting the shit. But I don't want it to be over serious. Yeah. You know, I don't know if that makes, if that makes sense. So I think it's an important part of your.

brand. It's a if you're like if you if you if you if you if you're touch point to BRCC was you join the coffee subscription right and you get like whatever two bags delivered to yourself a month and you enjoy the coffee that's awesome. I think there's more value and understanding like I wonder why they call this this blended coffee like who the fuck came up with the idea of lava panther? Why did he have that idea? Oh, what's this guy all about? And I say that because I have been shocked at the number of people who have come into the coffee shop and they just they're like they have no idea what the brand actually stands for or what the people who founded the brand or about or are their experiences.

So I end up having conversations with people over cups of coffee like filling them in on what the brand actually stands for and they love it. Yeah. It's like a deeper explanation and tie in to the brand itself beyond a cup of coffee. Well, I think a lot of people they don't quite understand because if they're new to the brand, they think it's just a really, really big. You know, it's really big, and it's like, you know, I don't know what their perception is because I'll serve coffee on Saturdays.

Typically, you'll go into the office, and I'll serve coffee out of Salt Lake. So I'll just do, you know, pull some shots in the espresso machine or do chemax or whatever it is because I love coffee. It was just, just got back from the especially Coffee Association Expo in Portland. And it's something I've been doing since the early 2000s

before I had a coffee company. because I love coffee. And I think a lot of people, they think the coffee company is just marketing or whatever it might be. And I'm like, no, I started roasting coffee like a long time ago to solve a problem. Like I wanted to roast great coffee,

bring it with me on deployment because all we had was like beans and brews. It was total dog shit. It was horrible. So as a coffee guy, I was just looking at it, solve a problem. So I bought a little roaster, started roasting. And I used to watch the guys dip with the instant coffee. Yeah. I never had a cup of coffee until it was 27. What? Oh yeah,

dude. It was late. Same weird. Yeah. But I remember why I didn't understand it? I was like, why would you do that? That looks disgusting. And they were literally just like, oh. And like with the shitty MRE gum. Yeah. So so bad. So bad. Yeah. I would, I was working in Kirkcote. at the time and another guy was talking about roasting coffee we were all in the same same spot it was like me this guy v diamond which i think you remember he was also a team guy um and there's another guy here uh edwin not edwin parnell but a different edwin and um we were all talking about coffee and how we could get a better coffee blah blah blah it's like we're just nerding out on coffee and the funny thing is is is

once you kind of start peeling the onion, the more complex it gets, a more interesting it gets, and it never really ends, because you can talk about sourcing, you can talk about the different types, you can talk about the qualities, there's all these different things in coffee

that are really interesting. And I always knew I was going to come back to coffee. I always knew it. My wife had a coffee shop in Denver for a long time, and, you know, I had pinned my first profile, which is just black in 2008, off a small one pound fluid bed coffee roaster in Colorado.

Super racist, but... Yeah, yeah, Just Black. But that was... In the reason... So many things I want to say right now. The reason... I don't. The reason, and I have to explain this to people all the time

where I'm like, that was my everyday carry. The rifle in the front of the bag of Just Black was my... The service rifle. So when I came up with these things, I wasn't like going to, you know, brand, you know, all these different, you know, agencies or whatever. It's like me roasting coffee in my little 500 square foot place in Colorado to take with me. And then in 2010, I was in Afghanistan, so I was using the AK a lot.

Like, I was training the dudes to use AK. Like, I was just like, that's what I was doing. So then I developed AK-47 espresso because that's what I was using all the time. And people are like- the lady protesting at the store that I would ask you that. Yeah. Because she came back again and we, we chatted again. Really?

She did, yeah. What happened? He had a protester at the coffee shop. A processor at the coffee shop twice now. And her issue with the coffee shop is that we sell a blend of espresso called AK-47, which in her mind is our organization promoting gun violence via the use of the AK. Has an AK ever been used in an active shooting? Yes.

I looked all of this up so I could have a more I just like a mass shooting I know Hollywood it was using Not a school shooting There have been it's about four or five Depending on how far you go back at And what you define as a mass shooting But you know one of the questions I had for us

And it wasn't trying to be a dick And I literally the first time we had an interaction I'll be honest It was It was less than professional I deviated from some of my philosophies that I talked about We have a book to write Andy Jesus

I explored some of the depth of my vernacular when it came to offensive language and thoughts about her beliefs. After that, I was like, God, I'm an idiot. And she came back after that ass chewing. She actually, I think it enticed her to come back because she got a reaction. I was hoping that she would because I wanted to talk to her. And the second time, I ended up talking for like 45 minutes. And it was more, I opened with, hey.

You should have podcasted her. That would have been great. I actually have considered that. It would fall apart, though, because what I've come to understand is that her beliefs are not based in actual truth. Well, logic. They're emotionally based. And I don't say that negatively,

but under scrutiny, they're not going to bend, they're going to break and fall apart. And then it would go back to her screaming at me like she did the first time telling me that I'm a, what was it, a gun lusting bootlicker in Magistam. Cool. Yeah.

Wow. That's cool. But I opened the second conversation with, like, listen, Hey, I actually would like to talk with you if you'd answer a few questions because I want to develop a better understanding of what you believe. So I can at least, you know, like understand why that you're out here. And also I understand that you have the right to be here. First Amendment exists for everybody. So I've already told the staff, like, let you be.

Did she buy coffee? No. Somebody actually gave her one of your coffees. Yeah. One of your waters. Yeah. And she thought I was like messing with her. She's like, this isn't like a AK-47 water.

is. I'm like, God, damn. But what I, I'm glad that I ended up talking with her. She has been protesting for 30 years. So, she's an activist. She's an activist. And I don't have any problem with that. And I was, and I was, and I was, and I was asking questions because, you know, the AK, it's like, it's, it's in her mind. And I asked her, because I realized after the first interaction, yeah, it says out on a bag of coffee, but where I live, you can go buy an AK in a variety of stores. And I said to her, I was like, do you know, I understand, I understand that you believe what you believe. And I know that I'm not going to be able to change. your mind. I just have some questions so I can understand and develop a better space for who you are

and what you believe. And, you know, maybe at the end of the day, we're not going to agree and I'm totally fine with that and you're welcome to be out here. But if the AKs are your issue, have you ever thought about actually going and protesting at a place where you can buy AKs? And she's like, yeah, I've thought about that, but I don't feel safe there. I feel safe here. I'm like, cool. Okay. Wow. Very interesting. She's just, you know, it got interesting. She's like, you know, if you get shot by an AK, it obliterates you and you're not recognizable. Did you tell her? Here's a fun fact.

Here's a fun fact. From about 15 feet away, I took one of those and yet I'm still here. So how does that align with your logic? She's like, well, you're one of the lucky ones. I'm like, on this, we agree. Yeah. I would never change her opinion. I would never be able to.

And honestly, you can look at it two ways. You could be like, I want to get a bulldozer. and drive this person over, or how fucking beautiful is it that you can stand on the street corner and tell people whatever you want to, and the law can't do shit about it. We're so lucky to live in a place

where that can actually happen versus places that we have spent years of our life where they're like, can I talk to you real fast on the roof of this building? I just want to check, see if gravity still works. It's true. It's a gravity checker.

Yeah, yeah. I'll take somebody screaming in my face something that I don't agree with over living in a place where I'm going to lop your head off and stay in the concrete red. Because you have an opinion that's different. Yeah, I think everybody who has these opinions, who it becomes their persona. Because a lot of them, like the 30-year thing, this is her identity.

So she's a school teacher. Yeah. And she said that she spends, she was, said she was going to come back again at some other time. I'm like, you know, feel free to. I've already told the staff like you're more than welcome to be out there, your own public property. And she said, well, I won't be back in the summer because every day in the summer I stand on the courthouse. with a sign about gun violence.

And at that point, I'm like, okay, I understand who you are and what your belief system is, and this is what you do. Like you said, it becomes their identity. Nothing about respect. Yeah, it's for that. I may not agree with your message, which I don't. And I wish I could, I wish, the only thing I wish in those environments is that you could bridge the gap between emotion and logic a little bit

and leave them with that, and they could cross the bridge if they want to, but the people that I have encountered like that will not let you build a bridge because they're not actually interested in moving. Yeah. And that's okay. No. You know? It's like the sex versus gender.

It's like, you know, this whole debate over what is a social construct of gender identity where now you have, you know, Z and all these additional things because people lack purpose. So they're just making shit up. I mean, like, you're making things up. But I get the trend on this podcast. Well, I just go there. Well, I want to get your opinion. The reason I'm bringing it up because I'm,

I want to get your opinion on, because two profound things just happened in Montana, including an activist on the floor of Montana and Bozeman getting shut down. One, like the narrative that was spit on the left side didn't actually articulate why she got shut down. I mean, she was interrupting and disrupting the entire chamber of their ability to do any legislation and they banned her. And then everybody was like, well, now they're transphobic. which is the immediate default.

Like if I say something like, I don't agree, I think transgender people have a mental health dilemma. There are exceptions and gender dysphoria. There are exceptions including genetic mutations and anomalies that exist at birth, that happen. In fact, I likely have somebody in my family who falls into that category, so I do understand that.

But the idea that a man could say he's a woman, and then now society says, you're definitively a woman. I take issue with that. And for you guys, out of Idaho and Montana, conservative areas of our country. What'd you scoop out of there? What did you just eat?

Oh. Do I have something? I was like, is there ground? Is there chocolate at the bottom of that? I want your opinion because you both have kids. And the biggest issue for me is the idea of transitioning children, which I cannot fathom. in our world and our country that that's legal, and it is.

In fact, Washington State with the Bill 5599 just declared that if a child seeks refuge in a youth shelter or program, they could transition through the state without their parents' permission, obviously facilitating people who are abused, children who are abused, but literally giving a loophole for children to seek transition without the parent's consent or even notification. So they don't even have to note. The old law was you had 48 to 72 hours to notify the parent or guardian that your child had just ran away and sought refuge in a state area.

Now that doesn't exist. And so when you look at the things that you can get done, everything from penile implantation to literally getting your balls chopped off. And so I'm interested in what you guys is opinion on it because it is controversial. but inquiring minds want to know. This one's easy for me. You want me to go first? Yeah.

Like at a baseline level, I truly want people to live like a happy life. 100%. I want them to be fulfilled. And I'm not here to police anybody's belief. And I do, like in the very few transgender people that I have had a direct interaction with,

which there haven't actually been that many. It's also almost an issue of what you talked about, things you see online versus you see, in real life. Or maybe I didn't even fucking know, right? I'll throw that out there as well. But in the ones that I have talked to, I believe I believe them

when they tell me what they believe. Yeah. However, I reject their ideology. I believe that a man, it's possible that they could feel like they are a man trapped in a woman's body or a woman trapped in a man's body. I believe

people when they say that. I reject the ideology. that a man can become a woman. Like, it is not, I'm sorry. From the science and my understanding of science, there is not a fucking shred of science that shows that you can go from an X, X, X, to an X, Y, or the other direction.

If we take, if we were to, I don't even know how to say this without it being a fucking soundbite pulled out and used another way, but if we were to have an island, and on the island where women and trans- An island, huh? And it's like, okay.

A tranny island? Is that what you're trying to say? saying like in somebody will I'm in cut it right there and it's just like he said put it and it's like that's not what I'm saying an isolated area where there was women and transgender men our fucking species ends it is the end of the fucking species it's not possible for very good point yeah the ideology is at any time that somebody voices this that we have to believe them and I've asked this of of people who are advocates of allowing children to make those choices

I'll generally default to if an eight-year-old came to you and said they wanted to tattoo a word on their forehead, would you let them? And the answer for most people, if not everybody, is like, fuck no. Should we let an eight-year-old vote in our presidential elections? People are like, no, absolutely not. And if you dig into the why, why can't they make that decision? Or if you view that through the lens of any other decision, it seems like in the modern scope of it, if you leave out the gender identity, but ask it in a different direction, everybody's like, no, they're not old enough to make that call. Like, how the fuck can you be old enough then to decide to cut your penis off. Like I don't, that's what I'm saying. Like, I do believe people when they tell me like,

this is what I believe. I'm like, cool. I don't agree with your ideology. And I don't think that makes me bigoted in any way. I don't understand it from the data that I have seen. It doesn't make any sense to me. I am not going to try to inhibit your ability to live a life the way that you want to in any way, shape, or form. But I will not participate in what I consider to be a charade. I won't do it. I, I really don't have a, I don't have a, I don't. have a lot to add to this outside of like I think you know it's fairly simple right it's I think from a scientific perspective the brain finishes its development roughly around 24 to 26 depending right yeah and so and it very specifically related to male or female um you know I think if you participate in

this this whatever this is um you know it's it's voluntarily um I mean, you're voluntarily sending your kids into a system that might be pro or con, whatever that is. But at the end of the day, for me, and I know this is really kind of a non-answer, but it's like, I'm just not going to participate in it. My kids aren't going to participate in it. I'm not going to participate in it. I'm very much a libertarian from a certain perspective, specifically around social issues, not necessarily all economic issues. I get very edgy when people try to tell me that I have to believe what they believe. I don't I don't like it when anyone tells me that I have to participate in something,

specifically with social issues regarding my family or my individual rights. I get really, I get very skeptical because I'm very much a live and let live. If I don't interfere with your life, you can't interfere with mine. Like it's my, you know, it's my right to live, you know, the life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. And it's someone else's too. So if they want to participate in that, that's great. I'm just not going to. And I kind of check out of the entire conversation

because I just think it's nonsense, like all the way around, right? Like I could say, it's a colossal waste of time. Unless it affects my... I was going to say, would you check into it if your daughters had to compete in sports against men? Yes and no. I mean, I think there's certain aspects of athletics that if you're opting in,

specifically as children, then you can participate on equal footing regardless. And I think that in some ways that's good, in some ways it's bad, right? Creating a firewall between genders in sports, but then removing that firewall when it's okay. So I guess what I'm going with is like, the government can't have this like

straight up double standard and everything they do. It's okay in certain ways, and it's not, not okay in other ways. So in California, I think they wanted to pass a piece of legislation where you, and I don't know if they did or if they were considering it where you had to have a trans person and in a LGBTQRSTUB on your board of directors of your company. And so I guess, so we're equal, but we're not. So there's this like forced equalization, specifically. coming out of like state or federal regulations, which I don't agree with in any capacity. So I can't really say I agree with no, you know, what I would say is like gender categorization

in some ways, but then I do in other ways, right? So it becomes an interesting philosophical question when you start categorizing it when it's okay in some ways and not okay in other ways. ways where you're like there should be zero relationship between what I think your sexual identity and your gender and the way that you're actually hired specifically related to your professional workforce environment but then there should be a separation when we call you know athletics which I completely agree with the physical circumstance it also differentiates but in some professions there is a physical circumstance where you do the you know I'm

I mean, based on what you're doing, your strength matters and what you bring professionally to the table. So, you know, the NFL is a good one. Like if they forced, you know, an equal categorization of gender, so it became 50, 50, male, female, how would that change the face of football,

baseball, basketball, literally everything? But how is that okay in the professional workforce outside of that? It's okay in athletics, but it's not okay in athletics, but it's okay in the corporate environment. Do you see where I'm going with this? So are we only separating the differences between male and female based on intellectual capacity,

but in some ways we are in the physical capacity? So the point of this is this is a really long philosophical debate that I think is interesting as far as like a thought exercise, but like I've got two beautiful amazing kids at home six and nine like they're credible incredible kids if I don't like their school and I know that I'm fortunate in this regard I'm gonna pull them out of the school I'm gonna homeschool them like that's what I'm gonna do and my issue is more the I mean I'm not a conspiracy theorist by any stretch of imagination I worry women have fought very hard for a level playing field and athletics and it

in my opinion, which is all it fucking counts for us, I think it has to be protected at all costs. And I don't want to see an unlevel playing field because of a social ideology and have like it's the issue that the only way that I think to protect it though is to women to stand up for themselves. Like the three of us

sitting at this table like men cannot save women's sports, but if we're not careful they're going to ruin it. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. I think like personally and emotionally, right? It's like I would get very invested in this specifically with my kids. And I think about it, it's like I really do think that from women's sports and women's rights to your point, like they've worked very hard to get to where they are.

And then to see that, I guess, that progress be deteriorated based on men that are identifying as women specifically related. to do a sport. Like, I think that's disingenuous at best. And I think it ultimately takes away from all of the hard work around it. But then again, the fuck am I. Like, what are you looking out on your phone, Mike? I was texting Jose to get more coffee. Oh, that's how good I am.

Yeah. Like, are you talking, are you talking about Kim? His cover name is Jose. I don't even know who this guy. His call signs Jose. Figured he just Googling like pictures of hog legs. He's like, he's like, who was the main character in Harry Potter season four? What the fuck?

What the fuck are you doing? He's fucking hogwarks? That is the longest bullshit answer. Like you, that was very, what is it called? The bullshit answer. He gave a CEO answer. That's such a CEO fucking answer. What would staff sergeant Hayper say?

I want you guys to know that the answer is both yes and no. It's not. We're in T&B together. Join the invasion. pushing through Iraq, and I'm like, Evan, what do you think about these fucking trans, bro? The answer really would be, I don't fucking care. Yeah, that's true.

Like, honestly, I don't fucking care. Like, I really don't. That's true. I don't care until it bumps up against other people. I don't care. If it comes into Utah, it's, I'm caring. I don't care. I don't care.

You are going to be labeled as a domestic terrorist again for saying that. Yeah. Well, like, here's the thing. Figuratively, burn it down with legislation. If it affects me, if it affects me, my life, if I'm being forced into something, like, like, it goes back to the whole thing around, like, I don't want to continue to bring up, like, mask, no mask or whatever it is, but it's like the dumb shit that... We're talking about an opera mask here or COVID mask?

COVID mask. So it's like the dumb shit that local national or local state and national governments were imposing on people that were impeding on their individual liberties was unacceptable. We've already forgotten. Like, we've already forgotten about it. And I think any time you you capitulate your individual liberty to morons, we have a problem.

So we shouldn't be forced to participate in quite literally anything. Montana was one of the worst states about that too. Really? Dude, we were so locked down. We couldn't do anything. Utah was wide open. Are you fucking open? Yeah, dude. Montana was like the worst.

He's such a fucking liar. Oh my God. I said a liar. Like, dude, I went, so here's a great story. I went back to Portland for S.E. I was going to ask you. Oh, bro. Hey God, you brought that back up.

Like, I thought I was back in COVID. Really? Yeah. I was like, dude, did I take a time machine? Is this, is this fucking, dude's wearing a aircraft went, went back through the Bermuda triangle and put me back in the fucking COVID era. Like, dude, the amount of like top not. What percentage of people do you think?

It was had to be 20 plus percent. What? What do you think? I think wearing a mask still means to those people? Is it, do they, do you think at the end of the day they deeply believe that they are doing the right thing protecting others? No, this is, I think it's a, it's a form of,

what do they, what do they call that, the political posturing or what do they call this? Virtue signaling, right? It's like, you know, I'm more woke than you are because I've got like purple hair and a top knot and a mask, you know, 12, 12 rings in my nose and I've got a fucking mask now, right? It's like, okay, cool.

Half of them we're still wearing as them, like, chin diapers. They're not even really wearing them. It's like some type of like strange fashion for, I think, 20-somethings to participate in the political conversation outwardly. Most of this is just how much attention can you bring to yourself about nonsense? And I think young, well, it sounds like I'm like 80 years old now, young people. Yeah, I mean, there are old as far. We're getting old. Yeah, we are.

They're searching for a way to communicate outwardly, right, with their dress or whatever it might be. It's the same thing, like, to a certain degree. If you think about like back in the day, like, how old do you? 46. Five. 45. How old are you?

46. How do you like? 43. It's tough with Asians. I could say somewhere between 20 to 70. Yeah. It's like, when we hit 71, we're fucked. We turn into like the cryptkeeper.

Yeah, yeah. You're like, you're straight up Mr. Miagra. It's like straight up. Yes. I may or may not have played around with AI a little bit and aging Mike. Yeah. You will look exactly like Mr. Miyagi. Oh, yes.

That does. Yeah. I love AI. Let's not get on that. If you think about it like like Bosworth back in the day, right, Seattle Seahawks and he's shaved those steps in his side of his head. You remember that? Are we still talking about this? Yeah, dude, if you think about like shaving your stops or like side spiking your hair with like the Tony Hawk.

You remember like the Tony Hawk the flip that went all the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Emo, that's the terminology. Yeah, but back in the day, dude, like, we're wearing like spandex, side spiked hair, steps cut in the side of your, you remember this shit, right? With trim an eyebrow, like, like accidentally. Vanilla ice. Oh, God.

I think part of it is just like, no, I didn't. You probably did. Loser. I did not. I was a dork. I was a dork. I was a d'I would use past tense on that, but. I did.

I had, I had the steps. Did you really? Yeah, man. I had the steps on the side of the... What were you? Were you like a skater kid or are you like a... Yeah. How many of you pegged your jeans?

Huh? Did you guys ever peg your jeans? Yeah. Do you remember that? What's that? Pagging your pants where you fold, you like... You like...

You like the slack out, fold it over and then roll it up. Yeah. Oh yeah. That was like an 80s. That was a total 80s thing. You did that? Yeah, I had an older sister.

She was like six years older than it was. So I kind of got co-opted into the style that was a little bit before my time. MC Hammer Pins. Yes, I remember those. They're at Kmart. I wanted some. I wish I had some.

They're at Kmart. I really wish. Was it like Zubaz or something like that? You remember that? Yeah, I think that was the name. Zubaz, yeah. Yeah, that was the name. But no, I think 90% of the time you would have found me in probably a Pal Peralta shirt.

Same. With some type of skater haircut. And that was kind of the... Had a rat tail and shit. Never had one. I had a rat tail. Never had one. Never did a mullet, did a rat tail, though.

Yeah, never did a mullet, never did a rat tail. Just had the side swoop thing. My middle son has a bullet right now. It's fantastic. I saw that recently. I call him Deb. I was like, dude, if I get you a Subaru and you wouldn't be able to stop going to a softball game because you look like a lesbian.

Yeah, you're going to start work at the lumber yard. Do you still want to do those bumper sickers we talked about? Yeah, absolutely. It says lesbians are disorganized. Just to see what people like, huh, why, why does that exist? You know? Like, that's my main job now is to create things that are people like, why does that thing exist? What is that?

I'm trying to transition into leadership. Okay, yeah, yeah. There's not a good thing. Please do. No, no. We're waiting. I'm just giving you that war no. I'm looking for the jumping point.

Transition, I'll go take a piss. All right, let's talk about leadership because we have. We have. Tork. I got to get this safety, you know what I'm saying? Oh, yeah. This house is built for midgets, so you're right in there. Have you ever peed in a sink?

Huh? Have you ever peed in multiple sinks? In Iraq, I think that's literally all I did was peeing as sing. I was trying to explain to Leah. She's talking about this arduous situation for women. Yeah. Like, oh, we have to wait for the stall. I'm like, if there's a sink available, I'm not waiting for shit.

Porcelain's porcelain, you know? There goes the transition for leadership. I thought I was there. We can't, we got to let's back up a little. Or do you want to just go into it. I'm not editing this. Why would you? I know.

we're doing a book we're doing a book on leadership I thought we were going to talk about leadership you're just always trying to sell stuff fuck you can't put that on here man everybody's gonna be like see I was thinking the same thing we're not selling shit we're giving it away for free

what's our book can be pulled buy my shit by Mike Glover oh fuck God I'm not wearing any black craft oh what is this no you're not going to wear any of your friends brands because you fucking

what is this this is a cleared hot Yeah, it's really a cleared hot hat. Go ahead and zoom into the logo on that, which is probably some cattle range. Where'd you get that bag from? That's my bag. No, I bet Evan brought that. He did bring it. We brought it.

Did we bring that? Okay. Nobody knows where it came from. That shit sells out fast. Does it? How is it doing right now? Well. Because it was out of stock for...

It was out of stock for a while. I used to sell it, but then I don't have the ability to do anymore. So just go to your normal black rifle coffee.com website. You're not selling them in your store? we're trying to get a hold of some to sell into the store I get asked about it every day but it's controlled out by black rival can't you do a different bag do you have the luxury of doing different bags

I don't know there should be a stipulation like maybe but I don't know the mechanisms of doing that oh Evan's back so let's not talk about that anymore there's a mechanism you just can't make one no no I don't want to do that Evan makes the coffee bags that's what I do

who's making bags right now what do you tell me he makes bags no I mean he also claimed that's a fucking cleared hot hat. I just called it. He literally just, this is the new cleared hot hat. You guys can get him in the link down below.

He's like, I always support my friend's brands. And he looks and he's like, I'm not wearing any black rifle. He's wearing a black rifle underwear right now. Yeah. Jeez. Yeah.

He does though. Who makes the bags? I've never seen you into Philcraft fucking anything. Do you know why? Do you know why? Do you want to know why? I do. Because whatever shirt size you have,

like whatever shirt you're using, I'm in between the medium and the large. Smedium. Yeah. So we don't make Smedium. No, you do. But it's like for whatever reason, because I think you're using a 6040. You're not using 60.

Yeah, you're using a 6040. So I'm in between the medium and the large. And so the large is too big. The medium is too small. What about hats? That's why. You've only given me like one. I have the, I have the tiger stripe field craft survival hat with with the mesh back.

That's the only one that I have. That's like a limited hat. Do you know how I get my field crafts or vial stuff? I go to my fucking coffee shop and buy it off the fucking tower. Yeah. Yeah. Evan could do that as well. They're like six of them.

Did he tell you the title of his new book? It's called I'm my Glover, buy my shit. Supposedly, I'm a seller. You know what you should do is you should just let me design something for you and then eventually like all, I'll wear it. How was your heart rate at 63 right now? I'm sweating fucking bullets right now. I got that ketone, what is that ketone ester called?

Like, yeah, Jeff Wood doesn't taste good. Yeah, it's, ethanol. It's good. It's freaking awesome. It's really good. And the coffee, so it's like, and you're at 63. I'll actually, I'll actually, I'll design something for you just so I can wear it. Yeah. I'll do that.

That will be nice. Yeah. You know why? You know why I never, never wear anything, Philcraft? Well, I'll sit you with a licensing agreement. It's not. It's, it's. Because you're never, you're never around.

That's why. I'm always around. Because in my office, if you were to ask anybody in the office to say, hey, is everyone wear anything fieldcrafted? They'd be like, yeah, probably like, I don't know, once every other week. I have like a hundred shirts. Once every other week. So that's twice a month.

Twice a month. Interesting. Yeah. Well, because of times more than you ever wear anything cleared hot. I wish I could get anything cleared hot because it's always sold out. Well, somebody does limited quantities. That's what it sounds like. Limited quantities.

When somebody lies to your face. create scarcity in the market. That's what he said. He said that, guys. He was going to do it on purpose. Limitin runs. Fear, Fear missing out.

It's called phomo. God. Attack by front. That's a good leadership segue. What? I don't know. Missing out? No, it's,

I think it's time for leadership. What is it? What do you want to talk about? I want some leadership advice from you guys. Structured regiment and approach to this black rep coffee podcast. Fuck, dude. It's the prep life cleared hot, black rival podcast. Creativity.

Leadership. Let's go. Leadership. Leadership. Let's go. Give me your, who is the best leader? And then we'll talk about the worst leader. Who's the best leader that you ever met in your military career?

He's not a public-facing person, so I'm not going to give the name, but I have a specific example in my first interaction. Did I meet him? Was he at the wedding? No. Okay. The first interaction I had with him, he was in E-7 at the time. So it was a senior enlisted leader that had probably the most impactful course

correction on my thoughts on leadership and my desire to try to replicate just about everything from like a tone of voice speech patterns the way he held himself conducted himself thought through problems yeah was he was this a damn neck or before yeah was a damn neck my first team leader is he still there or did he retire you you guys might know who he is i'll fill you in offline i don't want to get too much into he's just not a public facing person i don't want to air him out yeah but he he's retired correct interesting e7s who's a senior dude that He became a nine, you know, by the end of it. But when I first met him, he was at E7, I was an E5.

Interesting. Really cool. That would have been your troop. SART major? Team leader. Team, your T.L. Yeah, we don't use terms like that in the Navy. Squadron.

Fleet chief. Fleet chief. Boat, boat. Seaman. Bote seaman. Seamin chief. Continue. Tell me more.

Seamin chief. What about you, Evan? Boats mate. The number one. The number one. Man, that's tough. because like there's there's actually been I think what I've realized is like you have different people in different phases of your life that are that exemplify leadership that you emulate but then

you might move on to different types of you know professional development or different phases of your life and maybe those leaders sometimes have been disappointing to me um Like you thought they were squared away and then you evolved and then you look back and you're like, oh, well, they weren't that great. Well, I mean, like, like, I've had really, really, really good combat leaders, like really good guys that like were very effective, like in combat. Horrible family men. Yeah, train wrecked. Like, fucking horrible family. Yeah.

Or in Garrison, they saw. Couldn't do an NCOR. No. Good. No. Like, like couldn't put any. anybody in for anything ever like like they were just they were fucking horrible but I mean incredible like they're the guy like hey man you're in charge right like problem is you spend two percent of your

career in combat you got a guy who's basically a grenade with three quarters of the pin out yeah so it's like there are guys that are really good combat leaders there are guys that are really good I think within like we'll call it the more garrison circumstance you know and there there are people I think that thrive in that environment. And they're horrible combat leaders, right? So there's like, so crazy. It's really hard to find somebody that's like incredible combat leader. It's a really good, what I would say is an administrator, you know, more of a, you know,

garrison leader. And then also is just an impeccable person on top of that. So they just have layers of depth and wisdom to the individual. Like it's almost like non-existent to be. fair because you can you should actually look for one person no because at the end of the day we're all flawed because we're talking about human beings like i don't think it's possible maybe there's some outlier yeah it has all those things and if you know that person in your life good for you and you if you dig enough you could likely find maybe maybe there's not maybe there's one person

out there who's not like that but i think you should absorb what you can who you can because if you put anybody on a pedestal at the you're just you're going to be disappointed at some point in because they're a human being. Well, I guess I'll rephrase the question then. It's, it's who, what leader had the most impact on? Because I've had leaders certainly who were just in their own ways fucked up, but they profoundly, like you said, that senior chief. Well, don't forget that examples of really shitty leadership can be profound as well.

Yeah. Yeah, that's the next question. I actually have learned a lot of leadership lessons by watching a fucking train wreck from a distance going, oh, I don't want to do that. I don't want to be that guy. Yeah. I actually think that really good leadership is harder to learn lessons from because it's harder to articulate the steps that they are taking to achieve what they are, whereas a train wreck, you can kind of reverse engineer that. I'm not going to be that guy. Yeah. Don't do what he does. Well, yeah, when a, when a flight goes well, okay, you never, you never know who the pilot is. When a flight goes, you,

bad. Yeah. And somebody saves it. Like, you always know who it is, right? And I mean, there's, there's like,

and then maybe that's a horrible analogy, but I think, I've actually learned, I think more, and that I've come to this conclusion is, is like there are peers that I look up to more so than I think command, because command has been a little bit disassociated at times. And,

but my peers, I think they've actually been a way better leadership. example for me, then I would say even the people that have been in positions of authority, because I look at them as a peer set going, fuck, I want to be like that guy. Like the guy was a bad motherfucker. Middle management. He was underneath the troop chief, who was underneath the troop O, who was underneath the squadron.

Like he was like, I don't know if he used it as a ladder. He was four rungs up of a ladder of 10. Did he walk the rungs? I mean, did he? Eventually over time. Because I know a commonality in especially our communities. is a lot of times some of the best leaders identified by the men aren't always the guys who work the wrong,

who actually make it. That's true in any system. I mean, people don't want to act like there's no bureaucracy in the special operations community. Fucking, who are you trying to lie to? Like, holy shit. Yeah.

And it's a rock paper rank organization. If you're a great leader and you challenge a senior officer in public, you're going to get fucked. You're going to get bent over the table and fucked and your career might be over. It doesn't matter how good of a leader the team might think you are, right? So you got to be able to not only be a great leader, but navigate through the system that you're working in until you can achieve that leadership position for influence. I've seen that happen so many times.

Yeah. When you, it's interesting because we had talked about this for the book that we are eventually going to write about how your perspective and a lot of military perspectives are different than the narrative because the narrative leadership book is like follow the leadership path. of the small unit or officer or the military leader. But your take on it's kind of the complete opposite of that. What have you found to be different? So I opened with that, the resilience seminar this weekend, talking about leadership because that was my segment. And it was a shift a couple of years ago.

I think I started realizing that, and you haven't been there when I've talked about this, Evan, but I actually really advocate against... He's never been there when we talk about this. He hasn't. He's never been invited. He was invited to this one. Yeah, he was probably just running a public company.

You know what I mean? Oh, I see how it's going. I see what's happening here. Philcrasderwrable.com. Yeah. I advocate for what organizations that bring me him to speak. I actually take the time up front to advocate for not replicating a military leadership model in a civilian organization.

And sometimes they'll sit back in their chair and you can see like their eyebrows coming together like, well, what do you mean? We brought you in here because you're from the military. And I'm like, I'm not saying that there's not. incredible lessons from that type of leadership. But let me talk to you about the community that I came from. I don't know. I probably volunteered eight times and went through two years of like crucible courses.

So when I arrived at my team, I could not have been more bought in. Right. And I was also under contract for X number of years. And so you could talk to me in a way that was super short, super truncated. You could use negative feedback, positive feedback. I was so bought in on wanting to be there and wanting to do what we did that you could have the worst fucking leadership possible and I'm still going to kill myself to try to accomplish the goal. Right. So if you try to replicate that shit at IBM, what a dude is like, and I know nothing about IBM.

I've always used this example of that organization, even though I know nothing about it. The level of buy in there is not comparable. If you just go around, and I'm sure you see this at Black Rifle, if you just were to go around, you will have people. who are there for different reasons. You are going to have somebody working for you. Like, dude, I'm just here for the every two week paycheck. I don't actually give a fuck about coffee. I don't give a fuck about this brand.

This is the job that I could get so I can pay my bills. And other people who are like, this is, I love and live and breathe this. You cannot use the one approach fits all. Most people think military leadership is a very full metal jacket as well. Like just ba-b-b-b-b-ba-ba-b-b-b, which is not that way. I think it's much more collaborative. but I have watched so many military people get out and try to lead the way they did in the military and fall flat on their fucking face. Absolutely tripping over every obstacle, putting obstacles in front of them.

And you can learn the lessons, but you have got to learn how to separate yourself from that community of people. And I don't know if it's possible at a civilian organization to have the level of buy-in and the communities that we came from. I don't think it is because of the level of pain and discomfort and voluntarily showing up the next. day over and over and over again and maybe you're going to make it maybe you're not but when you do I mean they're literally like dragging you out of that community when you're done with it right like people are still clawing to stay involved in that I don't know if that's possible in the civilian world I would be I would love to see it and how they achieve that but if you think you can take a military leader and then looking back I've arrived at the decision that the easiest place to lead ever is in the military

specifically the communities we came from because of that buy-in you cannot just take somebody who was a leader in that community drop them at IBM and think they're going to do great things they actually might drive everybody away. Well, you see in it direct, I mean, with a turnover average in the United States now, 20 plus percent, like in every company. Yeah. As an average,

have you been able to take a lot of that or is it just a different game completely? Especially with a public company, which is a lot of fucking people. Yeah, it's a lot of people. You know, I think, like, truly understanding the difference, you know, in the corporate environment, there's a big difference between leadership,

and management, right? So, you know, understanding that good leaders need management skills and you can curate those management skills, right? Now, good managers don't make good leaders and vice versa, right? So how would you define the difference between the two, managing and leading? Well, leadership takes wisdom. And wisdom from my perspective is a combination of experience. So you have your reps in under you. You have intellectual capacity in order to accomplish it. So you have experience. intellectual capacity, which boils down to IQ. You have a formal education or some type of education within that background. You have the means in order to communicate all of those things effectively.

Right? So that's the way I kind of associate wisdom, which directly correlates with leadership. Because if you have the three components without one, you actually need one of those components. If you have three, but you don't have the means in order to communicate, well, you won't be able to lead. just plain and simply. So you might be really smart. You might have a ton of reps. You might have a formal education. You might have everything. But if you can't communicate that effectively to your subordinates or your peers or up, you can't do it, period. And then, you know, I would say that there's another key component to this, which is you have to have the correct ethics, ethics and

morals associated with being able to not only take all of that wisdom and then be able to directly attribute to success of the organization. So that's kind of the key components from my perspective. Then when you separate that out and you say management, management is more about making sure the administrative process and procedures are performed so you can do proper functions checks directly related to key performance indicators, right? That's management. It's, it's, it's, It's just kind of the blocking and tackling of how a business operates. And you can have a good manager, but that doesn't have great leadership and they're going to top out. Like basically they're going to top out because they don't have the ability to move to the next level.

You can have really good managers that continue to move up because of how good they are because they're exceptional managers. but they're really bad leaders, right? They could be really good at the administrative, the process, the ability to kind of navigate data and push essentially numbers around. But all of those people eventually get blown out. Like when you have long-term, steady hand, really good, what I would say is executive leaders,

that's when you have the two. When you have those two key components, of leadership and management, and what we call it, it's a nine box drill, right? It's nine boxes when you are essentially exceptional in all categories. That's what makes an incredible executive leader, manager, an executive. And those important, I think, and there's more key components specifically related to, I would say, just the thought of leadership and management in general, but that's kind of the basics, the way that I boil it down.

It's difficult because you also have wise managers that are capable of leading for finite amounts of time that are also really me driven. So there's missions and there's me's, right? So then you have another key crucial component. Are you in this for yourself? Are you in this for your organization? And, you know, we saw that in the middle. I mean, I was distinctly aware of it early on because there were really guys that were just so concerned with a fucking stupid hat and not concerned with the mission of doing what we were doing.

Like when you're, you know, doing what Mike and I were, you know, the main mission set out was unconventional warfare, you know, like the pinnacle of which being by with and through, it should be covert action. And that's a very specific responsibility that requires a set of skills and tool sets that are based on force multiplying. Right. So you have to really want to love living in those circumstances. And you had a lot of guys that were they wanted to be you guys, right? They wanted to be unilateral direct action guys. I'm like, but that's a different fucking unit. We focus on hydrographic reconnaissance.

It's like it's a fucking, it's a fucking different. It's a different unit. Hydrologist. It's a different mission. It's a different unit. Or maybe they got pushed around when they were in fourth grade and they wanted to prove to everybody that they were real badass. So if they got this like fuzzy green hat, they were really cool.

And they essentially got a really shiny ring with Deo Presso-Liber and a cool new hat. And then it was over for them. They're done. It's a dope painting hat. Huh? It's a dope painting. It is, right? So I think those are the me, the guys that are.

you know, mission are like, they're less concerned with the headgear and more concerned with the results. And that's, that's a very distinct difference. Like, you know, I think I, I have to write mission statements for everything I do. Like, I have to. I have to understand the who, what, when, where, why? I have to understand the bigger picture directly related to anything that I'm doing. That's to include the basics like you know being a father being a husband you know being a CEO being whatever it is like I have to actually clarify those things for myself because one I'm not I don't really have the I can try to think selfishly like I can go through the thought exercise and try to like go through the thought exercise and saying this is what's best for Evan but most of the time

I have to try and balance out what I'm doing to make sure that I'm not completely defaulted to the mission. Like I have to. And the other thing with that is like finding other people that are like you in an organization when you're recruiting, hiring, and pulling people in because you can have organizations, which I think there's probably a lot of those people in organizations like hedge funds or, and I'm just using that as an example, that. are fucking me's that are in it for what I would say is wealth and status because they want to

be able to to increase their title and increase their bank account they're they could give a shit less what they're doing if they if if they got paid millions of dollars to to to you know name the shittiest job on the planet they would do that it wouldn't fucking matter right they're in it for the money so you know I'm a capitalist is what's a super important distinction to from business like i like investing in building and i'm less concerned with the individual wealth outcome i'm more concerned with how does it directly affect the success health and longevity the business and i will always default to that i like being a CEO there are days there are days yeah there are days is what you thought it would be uh uh it's it's it's a lot more yeah

It's way more. It's a hardest job I've ever had in my life. Like by far. It stretches my ability to learn. I think about this all the time. I would love to have a brain scan of what my brain looked like 10 years ago and what it looks like today. Because there's zero doubt as to the repetition and the learning that I've had to put

to essentially, like, what I tell people is like, dude, I'm redlining this fucking gray matter every day. Like, yeah, I, I am redlining it because, you know, I, I definitely don't consider myself the smartest guy in the room ever, like, not even close. And I, and I'm not just saying that to like, sound cool. I fucking don't. So it's like, I got to get everything that I can out of this. And I've thought about this a lot where it's like, even if we all go all the way back, to 19, 20 years old, and you're like, you know, I'm 5-7, you know, 155 pounds on my best day, going through selection or anything else. Like it's not like anything has ever been gifted to me from an athletic or intellectual

capability. You know, I've had those gifts, obviously, because I have all my fingers and toes and I can count to 10 and that's awesome. But everything about my entire life has been how hard can I push this fucking machine to get as much as I can out of it. And there's never a break. Like I don't like like like like I would love to have been born with a bigger brain, maybe a bigger dick. I don't fucking know. That would have been awesome. Like a usual hog and a giant brain. But basically Mike Lever. Yeah like basically. You know. It's life. Nothing's. Nothing's easy. And like it. And I don't want it to be to be fair.

Like I mean, what fun is it if you're just like gifted everything in life. You'd be able to. like a fucking trust a farian. It just wouldn't have any meaning either. It would have no meaning. It's like people are gifted with like great genetic gifts. Like there are a lot like trust fund kids. They don't know how to fucking work. They don't know how to work. So the answer to that question without going on even longer diatribe is like there are days when I like it. Most days are I find fulfillment in the fact that like I leave going, fuck I did it. I did. I did everything I could today. Didn't didn't leave any, Didn't leave anything on the field, man.

I don't leave anything on the field. What else you want to talk about, Mike? Yeah. What do you got? Well, we were talking about good leadership. I'm interested because, I mean, it's probably, we'll go down a rabbit hole because I've seen. You didn't answer your own question. I don't even answer it.

You guys have a lot of expertise. Dude, you guys got so much. Shut the fuck up. What was the question? You asked it. What was it? Best leader. Best leader.

best leader same answer I got combat leaders that were very good in combat I got team sergeants who are really good in garrison what's his name Willie

one of my team sergeants in Afghanistan great in garrison not the best in combat I think he was traumatically impacted by some hairy situations and ambushes

is what I heard. So he wasn't a guy that liked to get outside the wire. But he was a guy who taught me every aspect of being a garrison, NCO and doing the right thing. How to write a con-op. How to do an NCO-E-R. How to professionally develop your guys. How to sit down and counsel them to make them better. Which, by the way, like most people who aspire to be in the military think that the war fighting is all there is.

That's all there is. What are you talking about? Yeah. And it's crazy because they fantasize about that career path. And, you know, I was certainly virtue signal about a combat experience. But like you said, 95% of that experience was in garrison, was training up to deploy to do the thing. So everybody fantasizes about combat until you're on the wrong end of a fucking PKM. Yeah, that's true too.

300 win mag. That's true. That's true. Fucking huck and heat at you. This actually sucks a big old dick. When I see Instagram influencers doing shoot, move and communicates, like, I mean, they're just doing shoot. They're not even doing moving communicate. But they just focus on shooting the gun.

Are you joking? No, like the influencer who's doing all the things. It's only focused on shooting the gun. Never focused on like the most difficult task, like communicating, filling your fucking radio, PCIs, rehearsals, planning. Like if you've never been in isolation, to an MDMP, you've never lived. And it's like that...

The military decision-making process for people. What the fuck is Mike talking about? In an ISO facility. Like, I think Green Berets actually invented this whole idea of the ISO fact because it became a popular portion of the training. You can't claim Green Brays invented the things... I'm pretty sure.

He can claim whatever he wants. I'm pretty sure. You know what? You're right. The Green Berets invented military plans. Did you guys have planning and training at all? Nobody planned anything before a fucking... green berets. They're all in route.

They're jumping out of the airplane. They're like, we're doing this, right? Like, yeah. It's like, that's our con-offs. First off, what you said is incorrect because at no point in time

did we look in the mirror to make sure our hair was correct and three finger swiped out of the face. And then jump out of the airport. And we plan it en route. Do you know why the SEAL community prefers the Silver Ranger compass

over anything else? Why? Because it has a mirror. I don't need this for signaling. Um, I, like the, I realized it's like being in Recky did lay this down and made it, made it, made it real for me. Because I always thought and I aspired to be a sniper. That's all I wanted.

Carlos Hathcock, the, what is it called the Marine or Marine sniper? Reading that book as a kid over and over again and buying the ultimate sniper by John Plaster, which I still have a copy. I bought that book from Ranger Joe's when I was 12 years old. I got an autograph copy when I was at SWIC. I got an autograph copy of Secret Commandos, the other book wrote when he went to the museum. Mike, when you were a sniper, did you ever use Target ammo on Target?

Damn. Target ammo on the train. I got to bring up old shit, Andy. You know what's funny about that? It's like, you know what I realized? about that ammo. We always shot National Match Ammo. Yeah.

We never had, our time period, we never had destructive rounds. It was always like full metal jacket, Sierra Match King, 77 grain LR or whatever. You used to take like, you would take Target ammo. Of course. One shot, nine shots, one kill.

That's what I say. I counted a few more than nine. There was none. It might have been 11. Yeah. I was just curious. God. That's pain.

Back to how Navy SEALs never plan. So I realized quickly in fantasizing about being behind the gun and doing the thing. And then being in the MSS as a team starting and RECC and literally doing the actual thing, which was like suffering and consolidating fucking PowerPoint products and HBW, you know, high performance wave and sending shit out. It's like that's what the job is. Yeah. And so I had in every facet of those guys that were great at all those things.

Set that aside, one of the best leaders that I've seen through demonstration of leadership at the command level was Tom D. Tom D. Tom DeMaso, who was a Ranger PL and Blackhawk Down. He was also the B Squadron commander when I worked for him. And he was, you know, he was in charge of task force. So he had an action arm of the unit, Rangers, dev, like everybody who's an action arm. and he went out on target with us all every opportunity he got and you could just tell by the way he led that he was a guy who was in the trenches with the guys getting the job done but could quickly elevate command communicate to um the unit commander to j sock to the president of the united States. He was just that guy. He became the deputy of deputy commander of the unit. For some

reason, he didn't take it. And I think he weighed his family over extending his career. And I'll tell you one of the most, the weirdest things ever, ever confronted with when I was still on active duty. I think I went to shot show in the military. They had sent me to represent Usa Sock. And I was there and I saw him. He just retired. And he was sitting in a a booth telling somebody about a sling. And it was like, you know, one of the guy, it might have been Vita, whatever it was, he was pitching somebody about a sling. And I remember thinking to myself, because the kid who he's talking to had no, in fact, when the kid walked by, I was like, do you know who that is? And he's like, I have no clue. Like, sell him a sling.

I'm like, holy shit. And it, I had the realization, no matter who you are, how you're defined. and by peers, by other members of your organizations, eventually get out. And all that is behind you. And you start from scratch. You start over. But Tom D. Tom D. Tom D. Moso, I could probably say without a shadow of the doubt,

as far as being at a command level was that guy. And then Ben Bittner, who was a friend of mine who was killed, my son, Ben's name after him. He was one of the best green berets I've ever met, but he was just a good fucking leader. He was the guy who said, when he was a team start, he said, you guys will uphold the standard. And then everybody was like, what do you mean to uphold the standard? Like, yeah, you'll do this number of reps in physical training or you won't be on my team.

And everybody's like, what? It's like, that should be the standard. But we had to fight for that. And he never wavered. And he was just always that guy who was right place, right time, right uniform. And crush bad guys. was he was all the things. Really, really great dude.

And a great leader. Even, I wasn't on his team because we were peers, but according to all his guys as well, he was a profound leader and he died leading the charge. I mean, he died literally leading his guys into harm his way and paid for it with his life. So, yeah. Shitty leaders.

Like if you could sum up some of the experiences that you saw on shitty leaders, like, what is that thing? Because we saw it a lot and we said, don't be that guy. But I'm actually interested to hear your take on it because as you said yesterday, during the resilience rendezvous, you actually at the highest level

saw both the best and the worst leaders. Galactically bad leadership, yeah. Really? Yeah. That's interesting. I'd be shocked if you guys didn't see the same thing. Yeah, for sure. And when I say this every time I talk about leadership,

I serve with the best leaders I've ever seen and the most atrocious human beings I've ever been around. Yeah. Like it's a selection problem. process, but it's not perfect. Yeah. Bad leadership qualities.

These are actually easier. I mean, the most destructive one I've ever seen is just a massive ego. The inability of a leader to control their ego being very self-serving. And it's just like they wear it on their shoulder. Like, oh, my God. And the inability to control their emotions. They just get emotionally wrapped up and so tied to the outcome. And it's a fucking train wreck.

And it's infectious, too. The emotional thing is infectious. But those are the two, like, number one and two. not necessarily in that order, but those are the two like really poor exhibitions of leadership that I saw in the leaders I didn't want to work for. Did you, do you think, I'm interested in this because I've seen this in real time,

I would experience it, guys that I knew on active duty who were really toxic. I mean, they were just that guy. Everybody knew they were that guy. And you thought, I thought it was just like, that unit thing, that military thing, that rank and position, that TL.

and then they get out and they're just as bad in civilian life. Yeah, they're just people. So you think that those guys transitioning out from the military experience, it wasn't just a military. That's just who they are.

That's who they are. And the problem is if they get into those units, they have a bullet on a resume that opens doors that they shouldn't walk through. And then they do and they have a bad experience. It's not a matter of if they're going to have a bad experience, it's a matter of when. And then oftentimes that door shuts

to anybody else from that community. Interesting. What about you? examples of bad leadership well example is a bad leadership in the context of like how did it affect you and your perception of it because i know maybe probably on an oda you've likely seen it all yeah i mean there's so many different examples i mean i think to to maybe cast a few different things out there that andy didn't mention but i mean a glaringly obvious thing that he mentioned that i'll agree with is like ego and then the me's. I always classify people as mission and me's.

Like I it's 50-50. It's somewhat binary and I know there's people that are kind of in between, but the me's can disguise themselves as mission first for a finite amount of time. Interesting. They can disguise. Yeah. And they'll eventually be promoted to a point where they have authority and their subordinates will pay for their ego and me first mentalities and they create really toxic work environments. To point out specific examples is that, you know, MES are more concerned with career progression

than they are with the actual mission. So they have a complete inability to put the needs of the unit and the mission ahead of themselves. and they'll put themselves in positions where they can not only inflate their own ego, but then ultimately get themselves promoted, and nothing is off the table, meaning they'll jeopardize the mission and they'll jeopardize the men to get themselves promoted or into a position where they will either get validated ego

or put themselves into a position where they can continue to develop their ranks. So if a guy wants a star, it's a really good example from, you know, whether you want it as a CSM or if you want it as, you know, as an O, if they want a star, they're going to do whatever the fuck it takes to get a star. They don't care. And like I said, they will disguise themselves as mission because that's what they need. But they're fucking sociopaths. Like they need to feed their egos and they don't give a shit what they have to do in order to get there. And I've seen multiple different layers of that, whether it's at the agency, whether it's, you know, in SF, whether it's, you know, in business, you know, I've seen multiple different

layers of that. And then those types of things, they just kind of cascade all the different negative attributes that we could outline, like one by one. it would take us another 15 hours of podcasting for me to outline those things. But there's, to Andy's point, like I've seen really, really poor behavior from all the way to the top, like politicians to guys in the Pentagon. Like politicians are probably the fucking worst. But, you know, and then when you're in the Pentagon, depending on, and this is like very subjective based on,

on what rank you are and where you are in the Pentagon, so it's not everybody. But it's very much exemplified in the fact that they become politicians, so they're playing the same type of game. And we could kind of outline that from the context of Afghanistan or Iraq, you know, people continuing in like we'll call it this facade that I remember really early on having kind of the look behind the curtain and sitting in Najaf

watching the news and listening to Rumsfeld talk about lawlessness and bandits. This was just a group of criminals in Iraq and we're like, are you fucking crazy? Like this is an insurgency, man? Like, I don't know what you're, I don't know

who's briefing you what, but this is a fucking insurgency. There is no if-ans or buts about it. and and then you had this what i used to what i used to talk about was like just a symphony of yes men that were beneath him it was like a pool of of shiny rank just ready and willing to get on their knees and just fucking suck the dicks off of every politician they could oh man they would dude oh good god if they if it got them promoted they would say or do any anything it took to get a star, right?

Whatever it was, so they were passing misinformation, validating lies, you name it. Like, it was just a symphony of horset with these idiots. And it, like, when I look at just kind of like that 2005, we'll call it, the amount of self-serving me's that were in the military. at that point that had never seen or tasted the what I would say is the profound remorse of loss and the agony of combat like in the in the true sense it was a game it was truly a game and they were willing to fucking jeopardize people's lives in order to validate their careers to do

bullshit. And for me, a lot of that stuff, I can't, I can't forgive it. Like, I just can't. Like, they had a complete, they had a complete disconnection from the realities of war. And they were willing to,

um, uh, pass, pass edicts that would, that would continue to get people put in harm's way ultimately for what? For their careers. And I'm not saying all of it. By the way, I'm just saying a lot of it.

You're like, I mean, Ambar, you'd think about Ambar. Everybody fucking knew what was going on there. Like, we all knew. Like, dude, as an E6, I knew what the fuck was going on there. Like, I didn't need to be, you know, an 06. As an E6, I knew what the fuck was going on there. Everybody did.

And it was fucking crazy to me that these guys continued to essentially lie. And I didn't know if it was just a complete disconnection from reality or if they were just, like, serving it up, like, you know, soft serve. of ice cream because some idiot in a suit wanted it to be real. I'm not exactly sure, but it's, you know, regardless. So I have a litany of different ways that we can, we can outline this and, you know, the failures of bad leaders along the way, you know, guys that had no ability to lead by example. They could only lead by title. They're completely self-serving. They're completely self-serving. they couldn't live within the context of reality.

They, you know, I think you guys probably get the correlation here, but it's like, you know, there's a lot of guys that just need to be punched in the fucking face because they need to understand what it feels like. A lot of what I would say, the GS-15 S-IS-level CIA guys, they needed to get in a fucking gunfight. Yeah. Because I don't know about you guys, which is a different, set of things, but the fear associated with people shooting at you or a combination,

complex attack, the fear associated with that event is so acute that it changes your perspective as to what the fuck you're doing. And I don't know if you guys were so, you know, maybe, maybe you're just better. I don't know, but it never, it never like left. It was like, oh, I just don't have any more fear. I'm a fucking goddamn hero. It's like, no, man. It's fucking scared out of my goddamn mind.

Like, it doesn't get easier. I mean, it gets easier to facilitate within the requirements of the job based on the time and repetition and experience because you understand the cadence and flow of the action. But it's not as if the fear goes away. Like, it fucking sucks. You need to stop doing the job if the fear goes away. Yeah, yeah, that's fair.

you're at a very dangerous point in your life, which is probably about to end. But a lot of these guys, like, they needed that. They needed to get out of their armored vehicles. They needed to get into the street, and they needed to put themselves into the first-hand experience of what that E3 sawgunner was actually feeling, you know, on the outskirts of Sauter City in 2000-Fucking 6 at 3.30 in the morning.

They needed to feel that in order to, understand what type of command decisions they were making. They did. Anyway, it was a rant. I don't even know what the phone was good. It was solid. We got to wrap this up.

Let's talk about Asian things. There's so many, we're doing an underground version. It's for sale. It's a link down below. You guys could buy that. Clearthot.com. Which is not the website.

Is it not? No. What is it? Clear Hot podcast. Oh, Jesus. You don't own ClearHodd.com. You have the top business. We'll get you screwed away.

You can have multiple. What are we going to close with? What do people need to know? Well, we got a lot going on. I mean, there's one of the things that we talked about in the beginning of this podcast was the idea of like getting to a place where we're not so suppressed based on all the garbage that's going on where Tucker Carlson is a prime example. We're a organization because they didn't like what he said, which seemingly is talking about praying 10 minutes a day.

seemingly what they reported as why he was released. Getting away from that means like doing what we did with the G14 newsletter. Like get the fuck away and have some redundancy built into this system. I mean, Jared Taylor from Black Rebel Coffee is going to do some input for some content, me, you, Evan. Evan said he was going to, but he's too busy. Yes. Actually, I think the idea for it largely came from you guys, though, in your mailing list.

Like how do you actually directly communicate with somebody? Because even like this podcast, it'll be on video and audio. And it will get suppressed. Well, whether it gets suppressed or not, I mean,

I guess depending on how McAvellan you want to get with it, like at some point in time, they could just be like, no, you can't put it up there anymore. So how do you actually communicate with somebody unless you own the medium

for the communication? You have to. You have to clear, I was going to use Clear Hut. Yeah. No, you have to clear the way of what I would say. is the third party platform, any third party platform.

So whether that's made it, meta, Instagram, you know, that could be iTunes or YouTube or anyone. Like at any point in time, it could all go away. It can all go away because it's just the world we live in. Yeah. Yeah. Even our newsletter for a period of time got suppressed because they identified something in the newsletter that they didn't like.

Seriously? And it triggered to go to spam. Is this when you were deep into being a domestic terrorist? No, this is recently. This was when me and you started doing stuff and you probably got associated. You got targeted because of your association. You're now a facilitator of terrorism.

You are what you are, you know? Yeah, you're in the network. You're in a target package. But we did that and that's what we're doing. We're just doing a whole bunch of shit like that. But we got a lot of going on. Like we got events at Black Rifle Coffee and Callispell. A bunch of them in May and June.

May and June. I have a book party release with you. June 10th. June 10th, and I have one with you. I'm jumping in Normandy, so. You want to you jumping in Normandy? June 6? Yeah.

Actually, you'll be jumping on the 7th or 8th because I was going to go on that trip and now I cannot. Wow. Because I'm going on a Rogan show on the 6th. Is it a static line or is it a free fall? No, I'm going to do a static and then I'm going to do a free fall. So I've got to do a static line.

Like I'm not going to go to Normandy. You can't do a front of North Carolina. You can't do a front of North. Oh, God. Like so I'm, I'm dressing up in the actual uniform. So I'm, I'm going to do it because I was like, fuck, dude. Like, it's, it's, you only get one chance at it. Do you do not hook up your satac line and just fire your reserve.

Just fucking do it. Just fire the reserve. Yeah. Yeah. Take like, you'll go out of like a, take like a four count. Are you doing it at 800? What they do it at 600 feet? Fuck, who knows?

No, fuck no. I'm sure. I'm sure they're going to do it like. You'd probably be like 1,500. Yeah. Like, which, dude this is going to be epic you're kidding me I wish I'm going to go on that

I still am going to go over there at some point that's on my absolute bucket list I have to do it like I like I'm taking the kids out there so I'm going to show on yeah we were talking about we're going to walk literally we're going to take the entire route from so we're going to start in the UK we're going to go across the channel we're going to go through

Normandy and up into Paris that's exactly what we're going to do so I'm taking my six year old my nine year old and I'm going to really unpack like what it means what what this actually meet what it means today what's the historical context like why is it important for us to understand what the true value of life is and ultimately sacrifice like just the fact that we're going to be driving through europe without you know swastikas how fucking important that is so and eventually i think i'm going to do the same thing in the Marshall Islands. I want to take the kids and I want to take everybody down and go through

like Pella Lou and Oki and all those different islands. But they're not going to grow up like hitting every fucking beach. So I'm going to take the girls and they're going to see every beach. I'm going to walk them through it and go this is what these guys experienced. Oki was brutal man. What a give us one secret. What can people look forward to black careful coffee in the next because this will come out in like a week. Tell us one thing you're not supposed to that they should look forward to. One thing that people can look forward to, I am rebranding the ECS. Okay.

I am. Which I still believe stands for Evans Coffee subscription. That's what it's going to be called. I can't really like, is it fucking executive? I'm like, it's Evans Coffee Club. I'm rebranding the ECS and it's going to be like super, super cool. So look forward to that. Awesome.

See you guys. Tell us one secret about Fieldcraft we're not supposed to know. The app drops June 6. Seriously? I talk about the book. What is it called? It's the Philcrosser Bravo app. We were done doing...

I know. We're just done doing fancy names. Probably my team. FCS or something. FCS? It could be FECS. It will be FECS. It would be the logo.

FSA. FSA. FISA. I like that. FISA. And that is everything from canning and jarring to self-defense mindset.

The whole fucking shabang. The whole fucking shabing. The whole. We've been doing that. It's been like years in the making, probably two years in the making. And the guys are like getting it done. We just filmed a hundred mobility videos this last week. Really?

Yeah. Because there are segments, but like everything from recovery to maintenance to first aid, survival, overlanding off-roading. It's going to be. It's going to be. You mailed it in. Yeah, yeah. Probably 50 of those are so far.

But yeah. You guys could have a subscription if you pay for it on June 6th. Don't worry. I will. I will pay for it. Clear it hot saves you 5%. Ooh, nice. Clear it hot should charge you 20% more.

Buy two shirts. You pay shipping. Hold on though. Before we go, you have the new series that you're... Change agents. That's right. You said what was the plan for... Yeah, we're going to do an episode, right?

Evan was the second one that was released. Oh, that's right. I saw that. It was really good. You didn't see it. You saw that he actually was on it. I guarantee you didn't listen to a word of it because you're not a good friend. Wow.

I literally am going to go on your website today and buy every fucking shirt. I did not see any of it. And small. To include the thumbnails that they sent over for me to post. I did not see any of it. Fuck, no, I was there. Why do I need to fucking watch it? Why do you need a cross burner?

You were there. So 25 episodes is what I agreed to do with them. 25? Yeah. That's fucking impressive. It's not, but it's on it. Like, how easy is it to sit down and talk to people you're interested? You do it for living.

Couldn't be easier. And they are, they sourced all of the guests. I think we've got 18 of them in the can. So I get another. And that's if they don't split a couple of the in-person ones into two episodes. But it's either a social issue, economic issue, whatever. There's more things that people could pay attention to and there's time in the day. So it's kind of like finding a subject matter expert on an issue that people hopefully care about and then exploring that with the expert and then leaving them with things they can do if they want to get involved.

Where does that live that? Same place to the podcasts. I mean, normal ones do. It's just a different. It's a different podcast. shorter generally 30 to 45 minutes and the cool thing about it is it's the same team behind Jack cars

Iron Cloud right Super high production value So all right Makes it easy We're done Bye let's go piss Bye Let's go piss