Cleared Hot - Powered By BRCC - What Does The Evidence Show? - Is Epstein Alive? | Nic McKinley & Ryan Dalton | Ep. 454

Episode Date: June 22, 2026

Nic McKinley went from Air Force pararescue to the CIA, then founded DeliverFund to fight trafficking with intelligence tools. Ryan Dalton was a trafficking attorney and federal agent at the State Department before launching Closed Horizon, a platform that crowdsources rewards to surface hard answers. Different roads, same fight. Skip the spy-novel version of Epstein. The simpler read: a guy who moved money for people who needed it moved, and collected leverage doing it. That access is what kept him protected. From there it runs downhill. How intelligence operations actually get funded. Why a broker like that turns useful, then disposable. What a criminal trial would have forced into the open. And why a dead defendant solves that problem. It also hits the harder one. It's an era where anything can be faked and attention gets steered on purpose. Getting to the truth is its own job now. I went in skeptical. I'm still skeptical. The corruption underneath is harder to wave off. Look at the evidence and decide for yourself. Today's Sponsors:  Black Rifle Coffee:  https://www.blackriflecoffee.com LMNT:  https://www.drinklmnt.com/clearedhot

So we're caffeine gummies, right? Yeah, so it's the same as the gulfic gummies. Neutropic gummies. Good for your brain. Good for your brain. Which means more is better. Ingredient one, tapioca syrup. My favorite.

Sweet, thank you. Yeah. Okay. You know what I was thinking about this? Noodling on this. How do we have a conversation around this topic and not come off as we're wearing three-piece tinfoil tuxitos? Because I think all of this, well, I know Nick and I, and maybe even, yourself Ryan said the same thing on the text thread. I don't actually give a fuck about Epstein at all.

No. To me, I am watched people make such grandiose claims of where he was a triple agent or a quad agent or whatever. And for clarity, I just think the dude moved money for intelligence agencies and he offered his service to- He's a broker. Totally. And for anybody who thinks that he was the only one doing that, you're going to have to wake up. That's right. For anybody that thinks that the U.S. government probably in a room didn't use exactly these words. And it would be, for the benefit of many, a few were going to have to suck. For the greater good.

They made the utilitarian position. But seriously, did the government? And by the, I don't know, I don't know if there's a dude twisting his mustache. I don't know if there's a fucking cabal of people together. Definitely is not that. I don't think so either. But if there was a group of people looking at someone like Epstein and they said, say he helps us move money from budget light items that we don't have to discuss or describe

to actionable cash somewhere by laundering through trades because guess what he sucked as a trader. But that's great if you're not worried about ROI. If you win on the losers and you win on the winners, that's fantastic. I'm still looking for that business model. They would look at that. And then somebody said, okay, but this guy, this particular dude has some baggage. he's really fucked up as a person.

He's really preying on these type of people and facilitating it. I know for a fact that they would use for the greater good. 100%. A few will suffer so that we can continue to have our umbrella of safety. And that sucks if you're one of those people that was abused. But that is legitimately how I feel our government operates at the highest levels. They do it at the lowest levels too. They make utilitarian decisions that some people are going to suffer.

And the domain is a great example of that. right? That's the probably most classic example. Some will suffer, but everyone wins. So I don't give a shit about Epstein, but Nick and I, we sit down once a year and we try to scare the shit out of parents last year was about Roblox. Interesting things with Roblox. I'm still having other conversations with people about it. It's, what a great platform for enrichment. More on that later. Yeah. But I hate the predatory aspect of it. And I also hate that nobody was held accountable. The corruption gets you? The whole thing. Yeah, all of that. That's, that's the shit that drives me nuts. Him as a person. I don't actually care if he's alive or not. Yeah. If he is, I mean,

I would care because then maybe we could televise an execution with the potato peeler. That would be spectacular. Yeah. Yeah. But it's tough to have a conversation about this topic without going into the clickbait. Is Epstein a lot? Because I hear people sensational. Oh, they wheeled out a a jelly body of the prison cell, this, that, or the other. I don't fucking know if the guy killed himself. Yeah. So I thought the same thing, right? And had it not been Ryan who called me?

Pull that close to your face. Pull it closer to your face. I'm not a Navy guy. I'm not so used to this. I mean, coming from the Air Force, I'm pretty sure you are. Coming from the Air Force, what I can say is your chairs are subpar comfort, but that's all right. These are the Rogan studio chairs. If they're good enough for him, they're good enough for me.

Well, they're not good enough for the United States Air Force. I'm just saying, right? It's a chair called the chair force for a reason. All right, fair enough. Yeah. Had you called me and said, hey, I want to run something by, to see if I'm crazy. I would have just said you're crazy and hung up. Same.

But because it was Ryan, and I know Ryan, I've known Ryan for 10 years. 2014, 2015, since 2015. 11 years? Just real quick, I can brag on Ryan. So what we do at Deliver Fund, Ryan is the, OG of that the reason that we are doing that is because he stopped doing it literally white combinator backed company that he started what was the term you just used white white white white combinator so white combinator in the tech ecosystem everybody knows it's like that

it's like one of the top tech incubators that you can get into right so he was backed by them few other like big name VCs and for the whole purpose of trying to do this in a for profit model doesn't really work in a for profit And so the technology works. Yeah, the technology work great. So he actually kind of like, like he's the foundation that we're standing on. The only, and we were one of his customers. Like I was buying his product.

And then he had to close a company down. And so I was like, well, crap, now I got to, now I got to build it myself. We sold it to a company then at the time called IST research. Okay. And so I then went and worked for the state department as a federal agent. Really the biggest reason was it was pretty tough to, sell that product to law enforcement agencies that didn't have a ton of money. We were a little bit early on it, right?

Using technology at scale to harvest commercial sex ads to surface people that are being trafficked. Conceptually, it was difficult to move out of the status quo. And we had some competitors that were doing it for free. And so fortunately, we found a really great landing place for this technology at a company that was able to integrate it into a larger platform for doing the same things. Okay. How'd you get started in that world? What's your back?

Yeah, yeah. So I started as a lawyer. My background. This episode's over. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a recovering lawyer. I'm a recovering lawyer.

Yeah. I tell people that I didn't want to keep practicing. But I went to law school to work against human trafficking. That was like why I showed up on day one. Okay. That was always been something very important to me. And so practice for a couple years and then started the tech company after doing human trafficking law and policy. So and then after that, after that went to the state department.

And then later on after that, to the rewards for justice programs. supporting them at the State Department from a defense contractor that had a contract to enable their rewards programs using the technologies that we created for them. Rewards is in literal writing checks to people? That's right. Yeah. So you got Bob Bad Guy runs his criminal terrorist network, whatever, and all of the who's who in the national security world get together and say, all right, we're going to sponsor a reward for this guy and it'll be, you know, $5 million, $10 million, whatever it is. It goes and gets signed by the Secretary. of state, the Secretary of State sends it down to the rewards for justice office. And then their responsibility then is to promote that reward offer and then also receive information. And historically, this was done with really just painfully manual channels. So emails and posters and things like that. And this company I worked for modernized this process. And it's an incredible program, very effective

program. We're talking like rewards for tips? Rewards for information. that could lead to a criminal justice or other outcome for terrorists or criminals or missing Americans. It's a very effective program. You dangle that much money in front of people and you're gonna have people. It wasn't that effective in Afghanistan.

Turn up. I offered a guy 50 million once if he'd tell me where Bin Laden was. Didn't buy it. He was just like, the fuck is the sum of bin Laden. Have you ever seen the interviews where they talked about those sums of money to like, you know, you're up in Koust or whatever. And I'm like, if we gave you $50 million, what would you? Guy goes, I'd probably buy another goat.

Yeah. Yeah, like no concept. He had a goat. He'd be like, yeah. I'd have two. Yeah. These guys couldn't get their head around millions for the most part. They didn't understand what we were talking about.

You would run into people. You know, we were there, obviously, 9-11 spawned all of that. There were plenty of places. Like, nine what? Who? Yeah. What happened? Yeah.

We have no idea what you're talking about. not only what is a dollar, what is $50 million, just completely non sequiturs to them. Yeah. Yeah. In the U.S., though, I think that would motivate people a little bit more. People in the West don't really have much information, though. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I have some information on some people. You may be eligible for a reward. Yeah. You see the cases you guys are working out. I might be able to fabricate some stuff. Message in. So you went from a lawyer.

Did you get, you became a sworn federal agent? I did, yeah, for the State Department. Did you have to go to Fletsey? I did, yeah. A little flea tack down in Georgia. Yeah. Yeah, I went down there. First two years I did human trafficking investigations as well as hackers.

And then I was on MSD. So that's their tactical crisis response team. So it's a gnarly world. I didn't know. I think the very first time I sat down and I talked with Nick, I think like most people, I almost unilaterally equated human trafficking with sex crimes of some type. And then we were talking about, you know, where I grew up in Santa Cruz, just south of Santa Cruz. You know, Castroville or like the Ardichael capital of the world and all these huge agricultural green belts.

He's talking about the brokers in between the people who own the farms who were stuffed in 30 people into an apartment. I'm like, or hotel workers or the, I just, you know, it's a disconnect. you latch on to, I guess, in your mind, the sexual aspect of it, and you don't realize there was a lot of trafficking in a lot of different ways that goes on directly in front of your face at all times. Yeah. It's a tough world. How was it litigating those type of cases?

I didn't, I wasn't a prosecutor. I did policy work. That sounds like the opposite of exciting. Yeah, it was the cool part was, man, it was taking a idea, turning into a law, and then later on down the road, like someone's sending me a news article, and they're like, hey, man, someone just got prosecuted under that law that you wrote a year ago, right? Yeah. It wasn't super exciting day to day.

Those moments were good moments. But I knew I wanted to get into doing something that was more investigative and dig into that. So this has been a big part of my career since I was in my early 20s. And then the whole Epstein thing came around and it caught our attention. So for clarity, let's just hit it right on the nose. You think Epstein is still alive. I think the evidence shows. from the files themselves.

Just say it. That he left that cell alive. Yeah. Just say it. Yeah. Yeah. I think he's alive. Yeah.

The evidence shows that he left the cell alive and then unless something's happened to him between then and now. Yeah. Let's get into it. So when did you start paying attention to him? I hadn't heard his name until it hit pretty mainstream news media. When was that? You know, honestly it would be tough to put a finger on. I would bet.

because of the voracious nature of the documentaries as I watched during COVID, somewhere between 2020 to 2022 because I had a little bit of time. I believe I surfed to the end of the internet. You found it. You found it. Yeah, all the way in the bottom.

And bam, there's the wall. In between there was a lot of documentaries. So I started stumbling across, you know, the documentary about him in Florida and kind of getting rolled up. And then which leads to another documentary. And then as that issue, I would say the star was on the rise for all the wrong reasons, obviously, other documentaries beget other ones. I would say early 2020s.

Yeah, I think which is long after his initial, you know, getting rolled up in Florida and all that stuff. Yeah, a lot of people, I think that's when he came on their radar. You're sending it home in COVID and you've got nothing else going on. Literally, like how big is the internet? Yeah. Here's two years to go get the answer to that. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. When did he hit your radar? people talked about the flight logs going to his island before he got rolled up in 2019. Or people talked about like, oh, you know, Clinton's on his flight logs. What is this place? What is this island? So I always had a little bit of curiosity about this.

Was there ever anything actually in those flight logs? Because here's the thing. I also think as a country, we're at a place now where regardless of what the government does, no one's going to believe them. If they were to say, here is everything we have. Right after that, a large group of people are going to say, yeah, but where's the rest of it? You're lying. Lars?

Yeah. And they could claim national security. And people aren't going to be satisfied with that. They could claim they released at all. People aren't going to be satisfied with that. So I don't even know if we're at a place where we're going to get resolution on this anyway. But I had heard that flight logs had been released or that was one of the publicly available things. I think they started finding those.

Because in Florida, he got popped in 2009, right? 2007, I think. Okay. So I had heard. Yeah. I think they had started getting flight logs around that time. And I get, I mean, that's a horrible optic for the Clintons to be on a plane or for Gates, the Microsoft dude, to be on the plane.

Does that necessarily equate to being involved in the things that he was involved with? Right. No. It's a bad optic, though. I mean, we can at least go that far. Yeah. It's super speculative at that point, right? You look at that and you're like, flight log doesn't mean much.

Between the three of us, I guarantee you if you go out a couple degrees of Kevin Bacon from our social circles, we each know somebody or have spent time with somebody where they're probably pretty fucked up. Statistically, that's 9% of American males. Yeah. So nine of the 100 men that you know. Or maybe it's just a crazy dude, you know, or somebody that we know or used to work with that went off the rails. and we would have to in some way, shape, or form explain how we know them. Why is their phone number in your phone? Like, listen, I knew this guy 20 years ago when he wasn't crazy.

Which is different than being on flight logs to what has now become known as pedophile island. I'm just saying we all, it's tough. Knowing somebody doesn't necessarily directly equate to knowing what they were into or their illicit behavior. But it is something you need to be able to explain. For sure. Yeah, for sure. And just having a flight log doesn't actually mean that they, they were being pedophiles on the island.

Yeah, it means they were on a flight is what it means. But it was a source of curiosity, I think, for a lot of people, what's going on down there, right? And then- Powerful list of names. Yeah. The line here for me on that kind of stuff is 2009. He becomes convicted of very careful.

Well, actually, no, I don't have to worry about. I don't have to worry about him suing me. Yes. He comes convicted- Excuse me. I don't know if Ryan just said. Oh, this might be a way to get him out. Okay, let's put this honeypot there. Yeah.

So he's not convicted. We'll pull it up exactly for what he was convicted for. He doesn't get convicted of child trafficking, but his charges are child trafficking related charges, right? And so like, 2008, we were all wrong. Yeah. Soliciting a prostitute, procuring a person under the age of 18 for prostitution.

Right. So that that procuring, so that is not called trafficking under the law, but the federal law would call that trafficking. So this is a game of vernacular. Yes. Right. So that's trafficking.

And the remnant. major changes, federal, like both federally and at many states after this. Yeah. Because there aren't 18, there aren't minor prostitutes. Prostitution is a choice? That's not a thing. You can't be a minor prostitute, right? And so that's effectively an admission of, okay, he was a trafficker.

Child traffic. Recurring a person under the age of 18 for prosecution. Also, again, and I get my basis for this off of the documentaries that I watched, I feel like he got a lot of a lighter sentence than if either of us. You think? I do think. Indeed, I do think, Nick. Yeah. If it was one of the three of us, and I'll throw Michael in there too, even though Michael's a sweet, sweet young man, 23 years old, he's innocent.

And I think they, we would have gotten a much more substantial sentence and probably wouldn't have been able to go and just leave the jail during the daytime to work every day. Yeah. Yeah. So, and again, that's real weird. That's a tough one to explain. Does that tie back into, maybe he needed to go move. some money for intelligence agencies? You had work to go do.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's plenty of state prosecutors who have talked about that they got visits from men in suits saying, hey, this is going to go away quickly and quietly. Listen, you're here because you represent to this day of the CIA, obviously. Clearly, clearly. Everything you say, they ask me all the time what I think. You're a spokesman for the agency.

Yes. You know how the agency works. Did you ever see bags of $100 bills and big bags at that? or aircraft landing in the middle of nowhere with pallets on them full of cash. Yeah. If you wanted to shut down, obviously. The intelligence community take away their money. They can't do anything without money.

Unless there's, I mean, my favorite example would be Harrison Ford paying for a helicopter with a company check in clear and present danger. However, as much as I want that to be a documentary, I'm pretty sure the agency doesn't roll around with a fucking CIA checkbook. even though I would take one. It doesn't say CIA on it. Or it's cash, right? So money, my point is this.

And I was saying this when I had a Kyriaku on. It's a uniquely U.S. perspective to think that the CIA has got their cape and shield on. Because to the rest of the world, they're gangsters. They're doing illegal shit. Yeah. And that is powered by money. So brokers. That's what I'm saying.

The money has to get there somewhere. Yeah. Social brokers. Yeah. I say this a lot to long. that we work with at Deliver Fund, they're like, man, like, you guys are pretty good at putting all this together. And they're like, well, you, you know, because they'll like somehow think that, so I was a special agent in the CIA, but that's not a federal agent. There's

two very different things, right? No arrest powers or anything like that. So they're like, well, you know. And I'm like, no, like I don't. Like, I was never law enforcement. I was a professional criminal. Yeah. I went over to other countries. I broke their laws. I evaded their law enforcement officers. Almost by doctrine. It's pretty good at it. Yeah. You know, it was, was incentivized to So, yeah. And so, yeah, like it's, it's, it's, it's, it's a criminal organization in that the organization goes over to other countries and does things that break their laws that are crime things over there. It's their whole point.

Every other country is going to look at and say, hey, stop doing that. Meanwhile, every other one of those countries likely has an espionage. They do exactly the same thing. That's what I'm saying. So you think that slope could potentially become a little slippery? Only every day and twice on Sunday. Right. You know, again, talking with John, he was, you know, the CIA is, in his words, largely

unfixable without oversight. And the reality is if you really wanted to shut that stuff down or control it, it has to come through money. I don't even think the oversight would fix it. If you take away those aircraft pallets full of $100 bills, the job gets a little harder. But somebody has to make sure that those hundies get there. And personally, that to me is this simplest explanation for who Epstein was and why he was allowed to do what he did. Yeah, he's got associates all over the files that are people who would want that money and want that money moved.

And it makes sense why he would approach other intelligence agencies. Like, listen, do you guys need money moved? This is what I do. I don't know what he'd take 10%. They're like, fuck, whatever. Here you go. You could see these negotiations in the emails. He'll say like, all right, my amount is 10 million or my colleague is 10 million and I'm 25 million where he'd broker things.

with the DOJ for getting people out of hot water, right? So there's plenty of evidence of this sort of, we know this, there's a two tiers of the justice system. There's the one that you and I have and Nick, and there's the ones that like, guys like Epstein have. And you can see the evidence of this. Yeah. Where he did not get prosecuted federally

because at the time Acosta was the prosecutor for the Southern District of New York. And the Daily Beast, there's a journalist there named Vicki Ward. And she released, or she made a, a comment about how she learned from a senior White House advisor. So this is third hand at this point, but take it for what it's worth, that he was told by Acosta, as he was being considered for the Labor Secretary position to leave Epstein alone, it's above your pay grade. He's intelligence. So again, third hand, but there's reporting that connects these pieces back to that world.

Yeah, and from a simple approach, when people start saying, again, he was the massage. God, deep cover agent and his, I'm like, I don't think so. I think he was a relatively ugly dude who had a lisp and was kind of short and loved money and power and influence. And he got that by doing the things that he did. And it enabled him to do the broken shit that he'd like to do as a human being. Pretty simple, you know. I mean, there's intelligence agencies are not law enforcement. And that's, I think, something is so important for people.

They're kind of the opposite of law enforcement. Right. And so they do not have to, like a law enforcement officer witnesses the commission of a crime, that law enforcement officer has to do something, right? Like that's part of it. For the intelligence agency is like they witness the commission of a crime, they're no different than anybody else. They can choose to or not to do something, right? Or let's add to that, they could choose to put that in the old roll of death. for leverage later on, maybe to either bring somebody closer

or push them farther away. Or you're moving all of this stuff. Yeah, we have this other stuff. Can you move that? And one of the things people just have to understand is you don't find out what's going on in hell by talking to angels. You got to go talk to the demons, right?

And so there's, you know, what happens when you have people who are constantly immersed in that environment for decades, trained manipulators, right? I'm lucky in that being a operator, whatever that means, being a gun guy at the agency. Like, I'm not, that wasn't the skill set that I was selected for and that I was hired for, right? But you watched one of the things that was really interesting about headquarters when I finally got assigned there was you would watch intelligence case officers literally running their own little intelligence operations against their. fellow case officers inside the building, right?

Because because when you're in an environment where everybody gets paid the same, right, GSP pay scale, everyone's just getting paid the same. The only way that you're going to get paid is to get promoted and what is power inside that building, knowledge, information, right? And so people aren't sharing information because that's the currency, right? So, so you can- Especially if you're battling for budget and relevancy. I just looked back to the pre-Lan 11 military.

Oh, yeah. We wouldn't tell the people in the neighboring building who wore the same uniforms as us if they would be like, go fuck yourself. Because I had to prepare for the Big Mish. Maybe a non-promissive shipboarding in the Middle East, you never know. Big Mish might come up.

Yeah, yeah. But what was I really doing? One, just passing on generational trauma because I had no understanding actually of what was going on at the time and I had watched the senior people do the same thing. So now you're going to do it. I was repeating behavior without real understanding

of what was behind it. But everybody just wanted to be the person that they called if something kicked off. And so you're battling, you fight your friends because there's no enemies at the moment. And you want the budget. You want the relevance. You want the phone call if something happens. It was amazing. And then we had to all work together post 9-11.

That was a real shit show until we figured that out. Right. But we did. But the incentives were properly aligned, right? Finally, yes. So, but in the intelligence community, question I would level is, is it possible to align the incentives when? the currency is special knowledge. I have special knowledge. You don't. Therefore, I am more important than you. So, like, what is that even possible to fix? I don't know if it's possible to align

them all. So, I mean, J-Soc operator, allegedly doing work with the agency, probably on a relatively relatively regular basis. Just every night. So how many times was it J-Soc operators asking questions and some CIA analyst or CIA case officer, somebody in that chain of command is like, well, we can't really tell you that, but we can tell you this part.

So why can't we tell you that? Right? Well, this guy, well, we need you to go get this guy. Do it to us all the time. And we're like, we work there. Yeah. We're wearing their blue badge. And they're like, well, we need to go do a thing.

I'm like, okay, like, who is this guy? Like, is this guy a guy who makes bombs or is this an accountant? Like, it's kind of important to know on the action end, right? Yeah. And, well, we can't really tell you what he does and what he does for us. Right? So you want to give me no information about the person that you're telling me to go get. but so like I'm going to treat this person as if they are the most dangerous person on the planet

unless you tell me otherwise so if you don't tell me otherwise I promise you I'm going to hurt your relationship with them I promise you that it's going to happen oh okay well I guess I guess we'll tell you but but that whole thing like it's not like I have a TSSCI with a full scope poly just like they do so why is it that you won't tell me something is simple as what this guy does for a living special knowledge. Knowledge is the currency. Even at the operator level, we all had TSS minus the full scope polys. But yeah, it was always means and methods, you know, or sources or this.

Yeah, we can't really tell you. Yeah. His knowledge comes leverage. With, in the right circles, for sure. Yeah. Some knowledge is completely useless in areas. But yeah. Most of mine.

Yeah. In the right circles. All right, Ryan. Lay out your case. All right. Let's start with it. So, we believe he's alive.

Let's not use the term we. Are we talking about in this room? I'm not going to speak for you guys. I'm not going to speak for you guys. So my co-founder is a guy named Alex. He's great. He's a former military guy also about to be a lawyer. We pieced this together after looking at the files.

And really did a deep dive into this. Initially out of curiosity, it's the first time we've been able to peek behind the curtain. Which files are you referencing? The Epstein files. Okay. What has been just publicly released? What's been released by the DOJ?

How much of them do you think we actually have? Oh man, not enough. Yeah. Yeah, a fraction. Because Blanche has come out and said, that's it. Party's over. Pools closed. No more.

You're not getting anything else. So we have clearly a cover up, right? The actions of Bondi, Patel, Trump, Blanche. We all know this. There's a cover up here, right? Of what we have, it's pretty damning of just what we've got, right? So then that begs the question is what's being covered up. We don't know, but you can assume that if this is what they gave us, what's covered up, what is held back?

So we took this information and a good criminal investigator of things in terms of a timeline, right? What happened when? Yeah. Yeah. What happened when? So what we do is start with who was this guy and work our way through all of the events, major events. I think we have categorized like 22 major events that we walk through here and arrive at this conclusion at the end of it. There's three options, only three.

He either killed himself or he was murdered or he walked out. Like I don't see a fourth option. No. They're doing a really good job of hiding him if he's still in prison. Yeah. I guess that would be the fourth option. Still in there. Yeah.

There's a hidden room. He's still there. Of those three options, him being alive is the simplest. It has the fewest problems. Okay. So we lay this out. And we start with who he was. So you talk about the intelligence connection.

The FBI does a warrant on his Manhattan home. They open a safe. And that safe is a passport, an Austrian passport. What year is this? This is his second arrest. So this is still in the early... This is the recent one. This is pre-2019, but after the second one, right?

Gotcha. He has a Austrian passport that's pulled out of here with an alias on it with travel stamps. With his picture? With his picture. His picture, different name, travel stamps. So who can create those? I was going to say that in and of itself is a heavy lift. Very.

Because one of things that, and I guess, This is just for the audience because you guys know this. But one of the things people don't understand is like, oh, well, how hard can it be to make a false passport? That's actually not that hard. It's getting it into the passport system. Yeah, making something that looks fake and making something that's functional are two very different things. Totally. So what your passport is in an international essentially passport database.

I'm oversimplifying it, but that basically is the way it works. And so if there is a fake passport, That passport is not in that database. It's actually a real problem for intelligence agencies, right? Especially you're going to places like Dubai and you're getting retinal scans and all that kind of. Biometrics. Yeah. How should we say this?

Might have changed the amount of travel. Yeah. A lot. Right? It's like, harder to get places when I don't know. You're traveling and not supposed to be. And here's the list of countries you can never go to again.

Go to again because you went there. Yeah. under a different name. Yeah. Damn it, they have good beaches. They got you. They've got good beaches. Well, and it's probably, okay.

I mean. So that's a feat. It's a feat to get the passport and have travel stamps. And people need to understand that there are, how do I talk about this broadly? That's always the problem, isn't it? Yeah. There are mechanisms to get legitimate travel documents like a passport. that would have your picture and not your true name on it.

And would function. And function because they are legitimate travel documents in my experience. Those are always associated with government programs or entities explicitly for the purpose that you are serving with that entity. So it is possible to do. And it is taken back when you are done allegedly. And there is also a very robust and thorough handover if you were to good. go allegedly to a staging place to depart where you leave one identity behind and assume another one. Because what you don't want to do is get caught with a driver's license that maybe says Bob and a passport that says Frank.

Yes. So it's controlled. And like you said, and most of the time, allegedly, when you come back into the country, there's an also reverse process to ensure that there is an overlap. because those documents are fucking real. It didn't appear to be a fraudulent passport, which is what we dealt with the State Department. Yeah. There's fraudulent passports.

Yeah. Which someone creates at home on their printer or whatever, right? I don't know if they work so well when they scan, though, or the RFID chip or the other. That's what I'm saying. There's something that can look fake. And then there are legitimate documents. And in my experience...

They're not fake documents. Correct. And those are almost always associated with, if not exclusively associated with, intelligence agencies or government entities. Right. So somehow he gets this passport discovered in his safe, which is this first clue to really understand who he is. We know all of the big things about who he was, is associates and he was this alleged billionaire and he had the island.

But then he has these connections that are mysterious. How do you get a document that you can travel on with entry and exit stamps demonstrating that's actually been done? Consular offices can create these, but so can. and intelligence services. And so it's the first piece of evidence that came out in the files that was really mystifying, right? What is he?

Who was he? Was he created? Was he manufactured? Was he made for a specific purpose? We lead with that piece of evidence. And we start by saying that each piece of evidence by themselves isn't going to be necessarily a smoking gun.

You weigh them differently as you do with evidence, right? Some of them mean more, some of them mean less. You can give a prosaic explanation. for most of this stuff, right? Where you could dismiss it is he had this novelty passport that, you know, he bought. It was just like this fun trinket that he had like a party. I mean, that's a pretty interesting novelty item. People make this argument, though.

Sure. You can't make the argument. I mean, a novelty pair of sunglasses would probably be a little bit tortoiseshell perhaps or some type of illicit frame would be a little bit more, you know, scrimshaw or something like that would be, yeah, a legit travel document. That's a different level, man. It is. It's a different level. And they fall flat on their face. And this is what I'm getting at with these three options. You have to start stacking up in each column for either he killed himself or he was murdered or he left alive. Which one has the fewest problems? And it starts with who he was. We line up up front. This guy was someone special beyond just having money. He had access to something that we don't have access to. Most people don't, right? Unless you don't care how much money you have trying to run essentially your own. private intelligence operation at a nation state intelligence level, that ain't going to happen.

Right. Do you think that's what he was trying to do? I don't know. I don't know. But even if that was someone said that's the argument, it's like, oh, no, he was essentially private intelligence. All right. We have lots of experience with private intelligence and like, that ain't it.

Yeah. So I don't know. Until the official folks get involved. Yeah. I'm not so sure he had the intelligence and I mean IQ to be in the business. That's a different argument. Yeah. Yeah.

Which goes to this discussion of who it was. He didn't seem that bright. I think he was a useful idiot for intelligence agencies to launder money. I truly think that's the simplest solution. Yeah. He didn't come across as particularly intelligent. Like you read the emails. He can't put punctuation together.

He can't write a full sentence. And you wonder how this guy elevated from a school teacher without a degree in the Dalton school, one of the most prestigious schools in the nation. and then gets lifted into Bear Stearns. Which question is how we got that job in the first place. But all of that stuff is still like can be argued around. Mm-hmm. Right.

But you're set in the stage. Set in the stage. So there's all the irregularities that happen in the correctional facility that he's in that we can go into. I don't know how much you want to go into those. Right away, man. Yeah. Yeah. We have terabytes.

All right. I think. I don't know. Michael keep track of it. He's looking. He's watching the red lights. And Nick has put together some really interesting stuff on this. But what we know is when he was in that facility.

First time or second time? Second time. So this is post Florida. The MCC. The MCC, the Metropolitan Correctional Center. So he's in this facility and he gets really some special treatment. So he has this alleged suicide attempt. He has a roommate.

And this roommate is moved away from him. He's in this special housing unit. which violates protocol. So there's this big IG investigation afterwards. So the office of the Inspector General looks at what happened in this facility. And the first departure from what normal protocol requires is the removal of the roommate. So now he's left alone in this cell by himself, no roommate, despite a call to give him a roommate. The roommate recounts this as well, right?

So there's multiple people that are testifying to this. It's like an anti-suicide policy, essentially. There's two people. Yeah, okay. That's right. Somebody to scream for help. Someone starts hanging themselves from the ceiling. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. So Epstein is in the special housing unit. He has suicide watch protocols removed because he allegedly tries to commit suicide. And then his enhanced monitoring is removed. Then his roommate is taken away. So he's left by himself. And that brings us up to the night of his death.

This is where these anomalies compound in a, bizarre way where if you have any one piece of this, you can chalk it up to government incompetence. You can chalk it up to like, this is just a camera failing in the government, man. They get these cameras from the cheapest bidder, right? Like these are not going to work half the time anyway. That actually is a factually true statement. Yeah. Yeah.

Stuff breaks all time. No, the lowest bidder is 100% factually true in my experience. Acceptable substitute is what they call it. Yeah. Right. Right. Like, I want this camera. They're like, no.

No, you can't have the nice ones. You get black and white. Yeah. Yeah. So the cameras, here you know about the cameras. They go down. And then after they go down at midnight, there's a missing minute of footage that's not in there. This is released in this transparency effort where they try to say, here's all your camera footage.

Yeah, I remember somebody caught it. Nothing's going on. Not only did somebody catch this, but didn't, wasn't some metadata left behind from the editing software that you use like Adobe or DaVinci Resolve or something. Yeah. Adobe Premiere. Yeah. Mm-hmm. There's metadata showing this was edited.

Yeah. So there's sloppiness all throughout this where there's just incompetence and sloppiness at all parts of this cover up where you don't want to be this like person that jumps to conspiracies where you're, they're entertaining is the, the seductive part of them. Yeah. People want to believe them. But if the evidence takes you into one, you got to reckon with it, right? And so there's this incompetent.

that appears at many places in this, one of which is Adobe Premiere Pro used to edit this footage. Not all that's released. There's a missing minute. So from the jump, we know there's something really weird going on with the footage. The guards fall asleep. They have a responsibility of providing 30-minute intervals of checking on the cell. And they don't. And they get a deferred prosecution agreement where they lie about this.

and then instead of being prosecuted, they get to just walk away clean. Is that what a deferred prosecution agreement means? Yeah. So they don't have any real consequence for lying about this. So all of these anomalies by themselves, you could look at these guards are going to fall asleep. It's the middle of the night. They are going to shop on the internet. They're not going to check on these.

It's a federal employee. Like how much do they really care about this? Yeah. And then it gets into a mathematical question, which whereas Nick has done some really cool stuff to look at, all right, fine. fine each one of these things by themselves we can write off and give some kind of explanation for but when you paint a picture with all of these and you look at just even in the correctional facility what are the odds that this could happen so ryan calls me oh man what was this like six months ago or something yeah this is two days of my life i'll never get back so thanks for that

yeah you're welcome enjoy so he uh he calls me he's like hey dude i want to run something by you all right right? And so he starts laying out. He's like, it literally leads with, I think Epstein is still alive. And I'm like, here we go. I tend to come out hot like that. I would rather have somebody lead with that than string me along for 30 minutes. And so he's like, he's like, don't bury the lead on just hit me on the nose with it. Yeah, here you go. The traumatic brain injury is kicking in, right? And like, here we go. I'm just trying to start finding a home. But then he starts laying out his case. And there's a lot of stuff post death that are like bigger smoking guns. He's He hasn't even gotten into yet, right?

He hasn't even gotten into yet. But he starts laying out his case. He gives me a document and he's like, here you go. And so I was like, all right. So very first thing that I don't know when I learned to start doing this, but I think people's opinions suck just generally. Everybody has an emotional tie to the reason that they believe, the thing that they believe.

Yeah, it's human nature. Yeah, right? And so, okay. So how do you control for that? Math is a pretty darn good way because math tends to be pretty unemotional. emotional is kind of one of the reasons I like math. So I was like, all right, let's let's just see what a quick look of the statistical probability of just the container of the problems at the MCC. Let's look at just that. And I did I didn't run. I didn't build a Python script for this. I just ran it as best I could just real quick, you know, it took. like 30 minutes. I love that you think I know what a Python script is.

It's computer program. Computer program is like when you want to know you get it right. Michael, do you know what a Python script is? I know what Python is. We know that coding language. First off, when he says Python,

he's not talking about. Yeah. Oh, coding? Let me just go ahead and I will translate for you what Michael means. Thank you. Thank you. He says, he knows what Python means. He's probably in your database somewhere.

Yeah, probably. How was your boyfriend doing by the way? Anyway. He's not enjoying prison. So I looked at it real quick. And the number came out to 1 in 79 quintillion was the probability odds. Of what you had just discussed, Ryan, the things that happened. All those things went wrong just in the MCC, right?

And he actually left some documents out in the original one. And so I was like, well, that's really interesting. Because any mathematician knows when you get an answer that big, the general consensus is it's wrong. So ran it again, ran it again. You're putting in integers that are. Yeah, like you did something wrong. Okay. You have a mistake in your system.

Equation is wrong. Yeah. You're wrong. So I did it again. Did it again. Did it again. Kept coming out the same thing. I was like, okay, so put it all in Excel spreadsheet, sent it to you.

and as like, that's what the math shows. But what I did was because it was a quick look, I treated every single issue as if it was an independent variable. And we all know that like when things go wrong, it's never one independent variable, right? It's a stack of problems that leads to some type of catastrophic outcome, right? So think of like your risk assessments for operations and things like that. So I then time to break out the Python.

Right. And so Michael's attention. So I was like, all right. So we put together a script and I was like, all right. And I wanted to be and I think you're, I gave it to you. I think you're publicly saying that you're going to put it on GitHub. That's right. Yeah.

And make it publicly available. Get up so people can scrutinize this. Yeah. Attack it. Check all of this. Attack all of it. I want people to be super skeptical to dig into it to say, hey, that doesn't sound right. I'm going to look into it.

We put all of it out there. Epstein isn't dead.org. We lay it all out. Come prove me wrong. I don't want to be right about this. It's not like fun to be right about. Because of the consequence of what I mean. So anyway, put all the code together and started running scenarios, ran 12 different scenarios

and containerized each thing, right? So basically a way to say that is taking like, okay, the thing. that happened at the MCC, but that were just security related, guards falling asleep, camera going out, sticking those in one container, and then controlling to make sure that it's called double counting, right? So controlling for double counting to make sure that the container doesn't become a, it doesn't have its own internal multiplication effect. So it's a way of saying that, all right, this, this is the most damning piece of evidence

and it's got a value of eight. There's four other pieces of evidence that might be two and one. So we're not going to go ahead and calculate this as an 11. We're just going to calculate this entire container as an 8. That's it. So we're not double counting anything. And then for anybody listening who's interested, we used a Bayesian methodology and using a Cass Rafferty scale for actually calculating the value of each one of these anomalies.

Well, how do you get a baseline for the value of anomalies, the Bureau of Justice Statistics? They actually will tell you how what, like, what is the base rate for cameras going out in prisons? What is the base rate for suicides, right? All of those things. And so tried to stack the deck as much in the favor of the official narrative as possible. Yeah. Estimating low, if you will. That's a lot.

their argument, getting the benefit of the devil as generous as possible. That is a lot of work, right? It's like, okay, this is a smoking gun, but I'm going to disregard it. This is a smoking gun. I'm going to disregard it. Or reduce the value I'm going to assign to it to at least account for error or the standard base rate. Standard base rate as published by the Department of Justice.

More importantly, all of the Reddit thread hearsay, all of that stuff threw it all out. The only documentation or the only evidence I used in the math and that actually got rated in the math was the DOJ released official from a court of law like the official stuff right so that really cuts down on the amount of stuff that you can use do you know what the probability of all of the things that happened I think there was 14 anomalies that happened in the MCC the probability of that happening was it was one it was one in five times 10 to the power of 30. So that is.

That's a lot. Yeah. So that's five times 10 with 30 zeros behind it. I believe, and I'm probably going to get this wrong, but I believe that's 10 non-million, right? So quadrillion, four trillion, right? This is all the way to nine trillion. And the odds were one in that.

One in that. So what does that mean to like people like, How do you wrap your mind around, around numbers that big? So, and I think this kind of proves this point. It is, and finding this analogy was quite frankly a lot of math and really hard too. But we call it the royal flush problem. So it is the roughly the same probability of you getting, of a single player sitting down at a poker table and getting dealt a single suit royal flush on the first hand, right? So think about that. It not so is it impossible? No, but highly

improbable. And I would say that's probably where the line of improbable meets impossible. And so if you sat down at a poker table and the person you were playing against got dealt a single suit, royal flush on the very first deal on the first hand, what is the only logical explanation? They're very lucky. The deck was stacked. Oh, sorry. The only logical explanation.

And so that's where when Ryan called me about this, and I ended up staying up to like two in the morning. Well, you need to take less go pills. I know. Don't take them past four years. Well, that's the only reason I was able to do it. You can get yours at gopills and gogummies.com. Caffeine late in the day.

It's not good, man. You got to be able to wind it down. Yeah, I call him back next day. I was like, dude, like, I will, I want to know more. And so when you put all of the evidence, so then you gave me all the evidence, right? And you put all of the evidence together, the stuff outside the MCC, like you put all those different pieces together. Only the court documented stuff still. And you try to make the number as small as possible by like just stacking the odds in your favor over and over and over and over.

I finally got it down to the probability. And I should say, what is the probability here? Like, why do I keep saying one in? And he's giving you three outcomes. To me, this is actually a binary question. It is a self-inflicted outcome or it is not a self-inflicted outcome of which leaving the MCC alive is an option, right? So not self-inflicted outcome is all kinds of options.

Self-inflicted outcome, suicide, it is what it is. Right? So to me, it was like, is anything else even an option? So when you break it down to that binary way, what we found was that when you put everything together and you steal man the argument in the absolute favor of the official government narrative, it's one in 810,000. That's still pretty ridiculous odds. Yeah, that is a ridiculous amount of work to get the number that low. And if you take, if you run models, and again, mathematicians and computer scientists and data scientists, the Python will be on open on GitHub, like run with it. If you start taking out the most damning pieces of evidence, like you just exclude it all together.

The lowest I could get to was 1 in 23,000. So like no matter what you do on this mathematically, it is. highly improbable, and I would go so far as to say illogical, the official narrative, the self-inflicted outcome is a, is not just improbable, but it's actually illogical. And that's the problem here is because we know how arrogant people are in the highest levels of our government. And I don't think this is like everybody in the government, a big grand cabal and any of that kind stuff.

And that's the mistake people make. You say the government and they forget that there's hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people. Yeah. And it actually doesn't take but a fraction of those people. This could be done with probably 20 people. To weaponize entire sectors. Yeah.

Yeah. 20 of the right people, right? I mean, we watched publicly the DOJ get weaponized, right? How many people were involved in that? A couple dozen probably, right? I mean, it's not everybody at the DOJ. Yeah. And so when you start looking at it through that lens,

So you're like, okay, the government narrative around Epstein is just illogical. And that only comes from arrogance of people saying, well, it's true because I said it is. Yeah. And so when you have that level of arrogance, like, they're not going to backstop this narrative to that level to keep some, you know, hobby nerd like me from running a Python script to try. to look at the probabilities. Like, they're not thinking that far ahead. Just like, we're going to put this in the media. It's worked before.

It's going to be fine. And I think the point here is that I don't really care about Epstein. I mean, personally, I hope he's dead just because he very clearly was a monster. But that's not the point. The point is that if the official narrative is illogical and improbable, that proves the thesis of rotten corruption at the highest levels of our government. And that's the problem. Yeah, I agree.

Yeah, this is bigger than Epstein. People have asked me this question. They've said, well, what do you care about this guy? He's, what? He's got to be approaching his 70s now. That's an easy way to dismiss a bigger problem, though. He just happens to be the most recognizable face to the symptoms of what you're talking about.

Yeah. And if anybody thinks, let's assume my pie hypothesis or conjecture about him being a money launderer is correct, you think he wasn't one of many? You know? There's a playbook. That's what I'm saying. He's not the only guy out there doing that.

There's no way intelligence communities are going to have all their money on one show pony. Sorry, not happening because they need to be able to continue to operate and move shit around. Like it just makes sense that he would be one of many. Yeah, for sure. I mean, there's a playbook and they can rinse and repeat and do this again and probably doing it again right now. So what are you seeing outside of the MCC? All right. Here's where it gets interesting.

So we'll get to the smoking guns here. We got a smoking gun that's about to come up. But before I explain that, we need to understand what happened with his money. So he met with his lawyers up to 12 hours per day right up until his death. At the MCC. At the MCC. He restructures his entire estate. It's put into a trust and will called the 1953 trust.

And this is executed two days before his alleged death. Why are you allowed to do that while in prison for money related and trade? transfer. I mean, until this, I'm not, I'm not for violating anybody's rights and I have no idea where the legal threshold on this is. But if you're in jail for that type of stuff or being investigated for that type of stuff, wouldn't it be smarter to just kind of lock everything in place until it adjudicates itself? Which sure. Right? I don't know. He's the lawyer. I'd be like saying you're in the middle of a bankruptcy proceeding, but hold on while I'm in the middle of this, let me just restructure everything that I have to protect myself in the event that this

thing doesn't go my way. Yeah. That would defeat the purpose of the entire exercise. Yeah. He had pretty much wide open authority to meet with his lawyers as much as he wanted to, which do most people who would be in containment have, I mean, I know you have attorney. I know you have the right to meet with your attorney. Is there a limit on the time?

Is that more than the average person would probably get? That's a good question. I don't know what the actual protocol is in that facility. Yeah. But I do know he got some special considerations. Like he was able to make an unmonitored phone call. after meeting with his lawyers. So there's evidence

that he was getting some special treatment. Why would they ever let anybody make an unmonitored phone call? Bizarre. It's a great question. So we know that at least he's getting some special treatment and he restructures his entire estate. And what this means is it protects, it does a few things,

it protects any of these survivors of his abuse from making a claim against his estate. So really difficult for them to make a claim against his estate. now. And it also, in the trust, makes it very difficult to ascertain the beneficiaries of this money. And he's doing this all well. And it completely avoids probate court. No probate. Should he be dead? Correct. So. Which means no discovery, none of that. And no one competing over his will and, in probate or, you know, whatever his estate would look like going through probate. So makes the move that I would make if I was going to fake my death. get all the money right.

And it was $577 million. So no small amount of money. And he puts this into a legal vehicle that through a circuitous route, he could obtain access after leaving the facility. And then fast forward to what's recovered from his cell. And this is where it gets really interesting. Are you familiar with this? I'm assuming you mean the cell he was in, not like a cell phone.

Correct. Okay. In his cell that he's in. Uh, no. Okay. It's beyond me how this is not being talked about everywhere. I cannot understand this. This is...

Michael, warm up your fingers. This is an unfathomable to me. Yeah, you can... You can pull it up. Michael, to pull this up? Yeah, you can go to Epstein isn't dead.org. And if you control F for smoking gun, it'll pull you down to this card. And we can pull up the visual on this card.

It's pretty interesting. There's two pieces of legal paper. What's that? Control F or what? Search for smoking gun. Okay, first off, what does Control F do? Find. Yeah, yeah.

It's like Python, Control F. Who do you guys think you're talking with here? What's going on in here? I'm not an IT guy. I just look for the little, it's a magnifying glass. Yeah, same thing. Okay. It's just a keyboard shortcut.

Okay. So what do they call the key of the Apple? Oh, yeah, there we go. A little special Apple key. Click view evidence. Uh, no, just Apple. Is that command or Apple? Yeah, command.

Yeah. Damn it. I know. What happens if you had Apple left? Same thing. Okay, good. Should. Yeah.

I first thought I thought that was a north facing penis and a south facing penis. I'm being totally honest. I caught that other corner of my eye and I'm just letting you know what I thought it was. Like there very clearly were some Marines in a cell. Oh. Yeah. I think that's what's redacted down there. I think that's the north facing penis.

So if you scroll up just a little bit. So you're saying that what we're looking at is a smoking gun. This is the smoking gun. Okay. And I'll walk you through it. This is a handwritten note that's discovered in his cell and it's one of two. So this is the first one in a second when he scrolls down. We'll show you the second one.

Okay. So the first thing that hits most people's eye is this drawing in the bottom right. It says Brad. This is the nearest. airport, Bradley International Airport. Above that, it says jet and then either U.S. prop or versus prop. In the first case, it would be indicating, okay, is this plane going to be a jet or is it going to be a prop?

Yeah, jet performance, let's say versus propeller performance? That's exactly right. So he draws this airport, the nearest one, and there's this consideration of what kind of plane is at the airport. And what's interesting is that this appears to be written in a different color. See how it's a little bit brighter. Have they confirmed that this is actually his handwriting? They confirmed that they got this from his cell. Okay. After he died. Okay. So someone else could have written this. Yeah. Sure. But it was recovered out of his cell after his death. And then, so say that just real quick, say this is a smoking gun. It begs the question, well, why would he leave this

in a cell. You're not going to throw that in the trash on the way out. And then I remember, oh, they were talking about trafficking and eating kids over Gmail. Right. So there's some hubris here. There's some like, I have people to clean this up. Yeah. So it gets left in here. The second thing that immediately catches my attention is what's underlined there in the top middle. You see the three underlines under where it says red. It says red notice. Why is a guy? Where is that? Oh, yeah, I got it. Red notice. He was about to kill himself. Worried about a red notice.

Isn't that an intelligence alert, a red notice? It flags you need. It's a Interpol alert for like basically international fugitive. So if any Interpol country sees it. Flags you. You know, Andy arrest him. Yeah. Real simple.

Okay. So if you're going to leave jail and everyone's looking for you, you're worried about red notices. Does the U.S. have an equivalent of a red notice? Or did we just put you on the TV show? America's most wanted. No, so it, the U.S. participates in Interpol. So, yeah. So State Department, yeah, okay.

Well, it just put out the red notice, which would go to Interpol and it gets distributed through all the interpol countries, right? You can be flagged if you're put on manifest, they can see that. Yeah. Yeah. So all I can get pulled. At the top, it's a little hard to read some of this stuff. So some of this is illegible. He had notoriously horrible handwriting. Yeah, there we go. So some of these words are difficult to read.

And there's a guy who's a forensic analyst that does a great job. He's a doctor in this. And he goes through each of these one by one. But the things that really stand out to me are you seeing the top right where it says blackmail and then the dollar sign? Yeah. This is one of the biggest pieces of this for me because he knows that when he gets out, he's got to get to money somehow, right? blackmail dollars right take that for what it's worth he's allegedly running this brokering scheme where he has leverage over lots and lots of people that's a great way to get money right calm up like

hey man i'm gonna leak this video of you with this 14 year old unless you wire me right so a little bit of speculation there but that seems to be where his headspace is i can't read the word above that um the word beneath that says guards yeah so he's thinking about money he's thinking about money he's thinking about guards. Word above it appears to say banking. Oh, that's right. That's the banking. So how do he get access to his money? He's thinking about money. He's got to live somehow. He's got to, you know, get people to go by groceries. Beneath that, there's LSR. So there's some controversy over what this is, but I think the best explanation for it is last stop routes, which is an aviation term for areas on a flight path where their airports don't have stringent customs and immigration

controls. If you're trying to escape, you've got to go to the airports where they're not going to look too hard. And then there's some beneath that, some more illegible text that's disputed. I don't really have a strong guess for what those are. But his penmanship really sucked. Dude, he's terrible. Yeah, it's bad. It's really bad. But beneath that, it says QSA. Yeah. I don't know what Q is, but SA would be Saudi Arabia potentially. And I think that because next to it says Nigeria, so he's thinking about where am I going to go. Those are pretty safe places.

Q could be Qatar. Qatar, yeah. Or it could be an online community of people that think there's a Q-level clearance. Yeah, he's going to go get permission from that guy. Yeah. Yeah. So here's what we know is that he has these meetings for up to 12 hours a day. He's meeting with attorneys.

He comes out with a legal paper with what appears to be, mental space of someone who is considering how to get out which airport to go to, which plane to be on jet or prop plane could be jet versus U.S. property. I'm not quite sure what that is. He's concerned about what kind of plane is going to be on, where he's going to go, how he's going to get money, how he's going to evade a red notice, which airport's going to land at, what the guards are doing. This is not the mental space of someone who's about to kill themselves.

this is someone who's intending to escape and no one's talking about this escape plan that's written here and it's beyond me it is the single most damning piece of information in the files for the existence of him post cell life that he left the cell alive

what are these other like pictures and drawing like middle of the page far left what is that yeah what is all that crap or down in the bottom right to the right of Brad or to the left of Brad. What is that? I have no idea.

That, to me, that appears to be a schematic of tarmac. Oh, runway. You're talking about the one next to Brad. So, yeah, so you got runway, but then Brad would be the actual airport building, and the rest of it would be probably hangers, you know. So let's assume. Parking. All right.

Let's assume. It'd be interesting to take that and then go look at an overlay of Brad and see what looks like. Yeah, I don't know what that top. left one was you asked about. Looks like a drawing of the U.S. That little top portion does for sure. And also maybe he was a prolific doodler as well too, right? So in the middle of thinking through this stuff, maybe that's what he did was doodle. But all right, let's assume

that he was meeting with his attorneys. He was restructuring his, well, not that we have to assume because we know at least that he was in fact restructuring us the financial side of the house. That was executed and done while he was in like that completed. Okay. So there you go. So that's a fact that we can base on. And he was. And he was. in fact, because he has attorney-private or client privilege, he knows there was no recording devices in that room. They are talking through this. Not all attorneys. Attorneys are just people as well, right? Yeah. If you often attorney, 50 million bucks, maybe he would help you in a plan like this. Who knows? Anybody who could rub together two brain cells would never let that man leave a room

where they have attorney-client privilege with this piece of paper. Why would he take that? Unless he was writing it down, once he got back to a cell to help him remember. it because he didn't have a very good memory. Yeah, but most of this stuff would have to be done by people outside of that cell. So you would have to probably remember very little because you think about it. If you're locked in there with limited communication. Yeah, that's good point. You are going to have actuaries on the outside doing all of this for you.

You don't have to remember shit. Right. Other than the time and date that you need to be somewhere dressed as a butler, obviously, because that was going to be his escape outfit. Why would they, why? I mean, it's a good question. I think that he is a prolific doodler. A lot of these just look like sort of mindless doodles.

Michael, hold up your notebook. There are some doodles. Oh, wow. All right. He likes to draw hands. Right brains. I like to come in between shows and complete the drawing. Which he's seen and hasn't stopped drawing hands.

So what does that mean? What does it even all mean? He's down for it. It's perfecting his technique. I mean, that's just what people do. And sometimes that's, you know, people, can connect the dots by detaching their brain a little bit and just let the pen go wild. Does they're working the way through this?

But also, like, do we have any idea what's under that black box, that redaction? We don't. Yeah, that redaction's interesting. So that's also really interesting. So that's also really interesting. All of this and then redact a small portion. Why is there a redaction on a handwritten doodled a note? That doesn't make sense.

So a minute ago, you were talking about how the U.S. government is not homogenous. Yeah. My theory is that there's mutiny within the DOJ about this. This has to be a science. to someone to redact. All these documents do. Hey, this is not being done by cash. This isn't being done by bonding.

There's agents that took the oath that all three of us took to protect the United States against enemies foreign and domestic, the Constitution, right? Defendant support. I think, my theory is that there are FBI agents and DOJ lawyers

who this comes across their desk and they're like, I got to put that redaction box on here. And so what I think is, is what we see is in here, there's either sloppiness where they're just, it's too much, millions of documents, they can't get it all, or they're like scrolling through it and they go to make their redaction and they're like, we're going to let this one go, see if it's going to get through. Sometimes two things can be true once, or many can be. You know, it could be a combination of both. Yeah. So this is particularly damning when you

scroll down to the next page. So you get this evidence of intent. But wait, there's more. Wait, there's more. You scroll down. We get this weird note. God, his handwriting fucking sucks. It's terrible. Yeah. I wish he was a more considerate criminal for us, and we could just read his handwriting.

Why? Just little dots with an X, dude. Come on. Yeah, he's not the best. So keep scrolling for me, please. Here, this is upside down, but at that very, the very bottom, second from the bottom, it says jail out equals 10. Yeah, okay.

He allegedly dies August 10th, 2019. This line indicates four knowledge of that's the day that he's going to get out and apply the plan in the first note. What do you do with that? He structures his whole state, buttons up everything financially, has an escape plan written out and knows which day he's going to leave and then he allegedly dies that day. So all of this is not part of the math that I was doing. All of this is gravy on top of that. So we've already established improbability for the official narrative. And that was just with the first third. Not including this is what you're saying. Not including any of this stuff. Right. That's pretty compelling.

So this is recovered from his cell. And I think I would like to see. see a comparison to make sure that it is actually his handwriting. We can operate on the assumption that it is. Which is why it's not included. Yeah. I don't know what to make of that. Scroll back up. And also why on a handwritten note like this, you would have things redacted.

Like that doesn't. And what is that for? Redacted kept me in a local shower stall for one hour. Send me burnt food. giant bugs something you my heads no fun what the fuck over giant giant bugs crawling over my hands no fun what and why would you redact obviously it's a name somebody kept me in a local shower self or a locked shower yeah okay so scroll up maybe he had a bad time and a shower and I hope he had a lot of bad times in showers while he was in there yeah it's all the way up michael just so he can

Also, when you go down a little bit, right? It's, it don't know what that is, but that looks like it says complete dash PB, Virgin Islands. Yeah, the VI. That's a good one. I forgot about that one. You also have G up there, which he uses it as a short for Goline. So I think this is actually referencing a computer because he has an email where he has shorthand. Oh, that could say computer.

actually, for sure. For a specific computer, Galane seems to have control of in the Virgin Islands. Go up to the plan, Michael, the very top of it, so you can see it just laid out. I still can't get my head around why they would let him leave a room that they could pretty cleanly operate. And it would be like leaving a skiff

with your operational planning, which is just no-no. It's a no-no move. Yes. And never attribute to malice that, which you could. can explain through stupidity or incompetence because like or pride i mean it's yeah hubris and arrogance i mean look at the you know and again this is not classified information you can

freaking pull up news articles on it right CIA loses an entire intelligence network because of laziness and incompetence and arrogance of case officers using the pizza parlor for the meat name was something like pizza right and hasbalah killed a whole bunch of our assets because of that right and and so these are highly trained professionals who know what right looks like and so i think people at a certain point just get away with things for such a long time that they start to believe that they're untouchable and you see you see micro examples of this right and we all know in the military, it's never the new guy who dies jumping, whatever it is, right? And it's oftentimes not even the like, and it's not the incredibly experienced person who like neural pathways are so established.

They do it in their sleep. It's always the person who was just about there. And they've been thousands of jumps or, you know, hundreds of firefighters or whatever it is. And they just, they just start to kind of believe that they're untouchable and they get complacent. that's why aviators have checklist, right? They get complacent, and then next thing you know, it's like it happens to the most experienced people. But I think he's referencing the government there.

So it's got banking, blackmail guards, a line, government, something. CL, fuck, whatever the rest of those two letters are. Or is that a parentheses in L.A.? It could be. Who knows with the handwriting. Latin America. And it's all stemming as a, like, bicycle spokes out of something U.S. Yeah.

Visa, red notice. So I was thinking about being maybe Okonis is a possibility. Is there somebody deeply influential in his orbit that has the right underneath the red notice, the first name that starts with a K? No idea. No idea. Because underneath it also, it looks like it appears to say Heather, maybe. Muslim. There's gangsters down there.

See that? Yeah, I saw that. So you guys consider this to be... You think he has some criminal connections? Yeah. You might know a guy or two. From what I understand, criminals also like money. It tends to be why they do what they do.

Yeah. So you guys consider this to be a smoking gun. I do. I'm not going to speak for Nick. Yeah. To me, this is I need to understand both the timeline. There's all the money and then there's the intent. Yeah.

Right? So motive and intent, these line up within about 48 hours of each other. Okay. Particularly the jail out equals 10, right? This is the smoking gun for me. For Nick, the math is very, that's his smoking gun. Both of those are very persuasive, I think, pieces of evidence. To me, the smoking gun is actually in the autopsy.

Oh, yeah. Specifically. Yeah. To me, that's the like, okay. The mechanism of injury. No. There's a different thing that you would have to pay attention to that I had no idea about, but Ryan and his team paid attention to.

I'll let you talk about it. And again, I'll just go back to like, the smoking gun to me is just not like, like I'm all, I'm already past that. Like, I've already made the decision. The official narrative is a lie. Like, that's, that's where I'm standing. So now I'm, this to me is all just, okay, now we're considering the possibilities of the unself-inflicted outcome. Yeah. Right.

Homicide left alive. It was a, it was an extraction. Whatever. Right. So we're just, we're just weighing possibilities now. Right. So if you go back to the evidence cards, Michael. And actually, let me see more.

more thing. Go ahead. So these little boxes are redacted. They're probably not first and last names, probably just a first name or some reference. It would seem like it on the second page, at least just because of the size of the box. Reference there too. That's not a first and last name based on the size of that writing. That's a, it's a first name. Right. Or a singular last name, depending on how he referred to the person. So let's look at what got redacted and what did it. So deliver funds in the Epstein files. And they talked about this publicly on, I don't remember where, because we were involved in a number of different things. luckily only one thing actually hit a file and it was a civil firm law firm that we were working

with that was representing one of Epstein's victims right and this law firm um need some counterintelligence training because what they tried to do was they were trying to make their case to the DOJ and they basically name dropped deliver fund to get credibility for their case because we were the one's helping them out with some of the Intel stuff specifically around international cell phones that probably not hoping to be recognized for that work I would assume well I mean I don't really care quite frankly yeah like we were involved in helping to uh to help victims of trafficking get justice like yeah that's what we do my point being you probably would have like to have been in control when your name appears right doesn't so so we're a source and that was a method what are the two things

you protect with your life. Sources and methods, right? It's kind of tend to be the two. Yeah, means and ways. Right. And so that was a, we were a source and a method. Right. And that was described in that DOJ letter or that letter to the DOJ from the law firm.

And that was not redacted. Mm-hmm. So that makes me go, okay, like, why is that redacted, but we weren't? I mean, I could see people not knowing what they're looking at. Right. And then they also, within that letter, they actually, put the name of the employee who was our chief of operations at the time. And they didn't read.

So like now his name is in the Epstein files. And they didn't redact his name. And he's very clearly an innocent party. Right. So like that's why I also have a lot of like there's not. There's very clearly not an over redaction going on. So that's that also. It's interesting.

It asks a lot of questions about. why you've got these boxes. The redaction process, which I know nothing about for clarity. So everything I'm about to say is completely me talking out of my ass, which is high 90th percentile anyway. I would imagine it was given to a team of people. And if they're not even intimately familiar with particularly this case, how do you even know what it is you're supposed to redact?

How are you going to know what is sensitive and what isn't, unless you are given direction from whomever, a person, a leadership role, whatever it is, to say, look for only these things. That would explain why Deliver Fund and that name would be left in because that's not on the short. It's not on the list. And especially if it's a massive trove of documents, if you throw somebody out this who wasn't directly involved in investigating this person, they're looking at this ship as a snapshot. How are they?

They're not going to be able to decode this. They're literally probably scrolling through looking for exactly whatever terms they were looked told to look forward to redact. That would be my guess. Mm-hmm. And what kind of review process does their decision to redact have? If they redact this, is there someone who comes behind them and says, oh, you forgot this thing or you forgot this thing? Or is this a one and done for moving on because there's millions of pages of documents? I mean, you'd like to think for, you know, there'd be some QA, QC process. But hell, if I know, depend on the manpower associated with it and how robust or important that list of things

you were supposed to redact is perceived to be to the person telling you to redact it. And we would never know that. You never know. There would no way to know unless there's a way to remove these boxes. And then you can start aggregating why. Then you could start asking some very interesting questions. Why this name, not this one. Why this person.

When without that, this is all we're throwing shotgun rounds out of the wind, you know. Yeah. Yeah. The redactions are, you know, seemingly not. to have a rhyme or reason because there's some things that look like they should be redacted and they weren't and some things that were redacted. Why is this redacted unless this is a co-conspirator? Massey came out on the house floor and made this point and called out co-conspirators and called out Bondi for hiding Les Wexner's name. I believe it was Les Wexner, but it was one of the people

marked as a co-conspirator. And so there seems to be some... And how'd that work out for Massey? Not great. God bless him, but he paid for it. I think in the end. And so it is a process that is deliberately obscured. And maybe we'll never know that. But my theory is, is that like you said earlier, it is not homogenous. There's agents in there. They're probably looking at this like, I wonder if I can slide this through.

I feel like that's true of any organization that has more than two people in it. You're going to end up having, you know, oftentimes incentives are aligned, disaligned, whatever it may be. and not everybody is completely bought in to the degree that you would, you know, that there's just not homogenous organizations. All right. So the autopsy, what's interesting about the autopsy? So if you go back to the evidence cards, Michael, and go back beneath the smoking gun, if you had evidence he is alive back at the top, it'll take you to the evidence cards.

And I'll show you the body and we'll talk about the body. So search for ear E-A-R. I'd probably take you right to it. I'd use command F, Michael. There you go. Do one more. So that's the takes us to the top card. Let's see if we can get us.

It's got 30 results. Maybe it won't be as fast as I think it is. So we're looking for... This is the trust, the 1953 trust you were talking about. That's right. Yeah. Is that hitting on ear? Here we go.

if it's in there. So there's these facial discrepancies on the gurney. Click view evidence. So. Did they actually release this photo? Yeah. So if you scroll down a little bit, the left one is the photo of him alive.

So this is a photo of his face as he's alive. The right is a photo taken by the New York Post. They let the New York Post come in and photograph his body? I believe this photo was taken on the gurney as he was departing the facility. They usually cover bodies? Yeah, that's weird. This is what's interesting is this is what's confusing about this. There is an FBI memo that says that the body that left there was a decoy body

because they wanted the media to follow the decoy body so they could take the other body wherever they wanted to go. So there's a card that talks about this decoy body that we have on the site that people can look at. And we reference the memo. So all of these cards are a claim. source, claim, source, because we're making a pretty big claim here. Yeah. And you can't do that halfway. You know what I'm saying?

Like, it's got to be pretty well sourced. When you die, I don't think your cartilage changes that much. Probably depends on how you die. That's true. Yeah, you get hit by a bomb or something. Well, no. It depends on what killed you. Yes.

Precisely. Some things that relatively positive can change the cartilage structure of the human body. In this case, hanging, is it going to change your nose structure? It depends on when they cut you down if you landed on your face. Your ear? Old man have weird ears. Let's just be honest. And it ears and ear print.

So like we actually use biometrics for like side shots of people's heads to like literally find find somebody based on their ear. Yeah. Right. So it's a unique signature to an individual. So this is is interesting. But the bigger piece that's interesting to me here is this FBI memo that says, as yeah, there was a decoy body.

And according to the memo, they used blankets and boxes. But that's not what visually we see here. So there's some disconnect between this memo and reality. Also, why would you, why would you ever need to have a decoy body? One, I got a question like, how do you get a decoy body? Like, I might know a guy who's interested in that. Well, I feel like they're probably non-organic. I think your previous employer likely has, you know,

gelatin bodies for things. It's contracted to Hollywood. That's actually a place that probably has really good ones as well too. That's a good point. Yeah. But why? I mean, to divert the media.

It was the stated reason. Yeah, but they can't follow you to the corner. I guess they could follow you to the corner building. They're not going to go inside with you. So to divert them to what? Right. And also,

why? Like, why do you want to divert the media? Like, why do you care if the media takes pictures and follows you? Like, they do that all the time anyway. So.

And again, you get into the, I'm assuming it was an AMOAPD somewhere, the coroner's office, the media is not going in there. I don't feel a need to divert that. I don't know. Yeah, it's weird. I mean, you can look at this and again, you can provide prosaic explanations, but here's where it gets really weird is when it goes to the autopsy. And for Nick, this is the smoking gun. Unless the whole reason why they were doing that was to give the FBI agents a reason on why they needed to have a decoy body because they were doing an extraction. Like that actually makes sense. Yeah. Yeah.

All right, the autopsy. All right. So this autopsy is performed. And this is where, I think it's, this is, in my opinion, the most interesting piece here. The Office of the Chief Medical Examiner performs his autopsy and makes remarks about the conditions of all kinds of parts of his body. One of which is his prostate. which is standard operating procedure, right? Corners go head to toe, go through everything.

So they're just doing what they do all day, every day. And my understanding is the best way to do this is to not review medical records before you do an autopsy because it will color your view of the autopsy. That makes sense. I have medical doctors. I've asked about this and this is their statement. I'm not an expert on autopsies, but this is my understanding. And she makes remarks about the condition.

of his prostate. She says it's something like it's basically normal. It was there. The real takeaway is that it was there. Rewind to a deposition that he was under when he was alive. And he's asked in this deposition, Mr. Epstein,

you can have high testosterone and still need Viagra if you don't have a prostate. Is that correct? He responds. Correct. People who try to explain this away try to say that, oh, the royal U is used. Not you, Andy, the royal U. Yeah, but why would you ask him a Royal U question like that? He's not a medical background.

In a deposition. Yeah. About him. Which is very specifically about him. Does he kind of the whole reason he said? Did he have his prostate taken out? Well, we know that he also has a lab core record that is found in the files. Okay. Where his... And for people listening, that's just a place where you can go get blood drawn. Yeah, he goes to get blood drawn. And it seems to indicate a follow-on examiner. for a radical prostatectomy. Okay.

His urinalysis and his PSA are the two markers in question. And there's a paragraph beneath that in the lab core findings that discuss what the findings should look like if you have a radical prostatectomy, which is big fancy medical language for removal of the prostate. Yeah. So you have his deposition. Correct. No prostate.

You have his lab core record with his name at the top that shows that, uh, you know, It's a follow-on examination for a radical prostateectomy. And then compare that to the autopsy, which says he has one. And so what I think happened is when the autopsy was performed, she wasn't track on that. She had no idea. And so the conclusion you have to figure out is then what happened? Was it that it wasn't his body? And she was looking at a completely different body, which,

she lying? Was she in on it? We don't, we have no way to know. We can only speculate. Are we 100% certain he had his prostate removed? We can't be 100% certain of anything here. It's the unfortunate nature of conspiracies, right? Conspiracies in the legal sense of two or more people agreeing to do something unlawful. But the two pieces of evidence, verbal testimony. God damn, Michael. Verbal testimony and medical records, his own verbal testimony. Number 26, 2010, the file contains laboratory results that includes a boilerplate notation for patients who have undergone a radical prostate octomy.

Prostate, whatever the fuck that was. This document, or the document, has become the subject of intense medical and investigative scrutiny regarding Jeffrey Epstein's clinical history. This is an early procedure. Actually, I had a guy explain it to me recently. They put a fully catheter in, cut your dick off and slide it up the fully catheter. So it's about three feet away from your body. They remove your prostate.

Then they sew your dick back on. Could you give somebody a warning before you start explaining that? I need a trigger warning. Michael, pull up that video. Oh, man. That is what a radical... Is there an animation of that procedure? Python prostatectomy.

Yeah, prostatectomy. That is described to me... They have a new way to do it in an ablation way, but that is the traditional way to do it. So, yeah, that would be considered a radical thing for sure. Not a party. No, but I tell you what, if we could find proof or evidence that he actually had that procedure and then the autopsy says the prostate is intact, I don't know how you walk past those two. See, to me, that that's why I say it. To me, that if there is a smoking gun, that is it.

Because intelligence operations are, let's just say, you could call them conspiracies only it would be usually some legal thing, right? because what are intelligence operations? You do have two or more people who are agreeing to do something and try to keep everybody else from finding out about it. So there are plenty of people in the military as an example, say in a place like Afghanistan or Iraq, who are part of an intelligence operation completely unwittingly have no idea. No idea, right?

Good example. This is in Ukraine when they launched the drone strike out of the back of the trucks and the truck drivers had no idea that they were actually carrying the drones. Perfect. Hundreds of miles. And they knew, well, they didn't nuke, but they crushed a lot of the Russian bomber capability. And there's the way we move money around this country, the way the Fed moves cash. If anybody knows how that works, there are people moving it who have absolutely no idea what's in the back of their trucks.

And so if you are doing something like that, you're going to want to tell as few possible, as few people as possible. and the medical examiner is probably not somebody that you're going to read into it. Yeah. Right. You would think that they would have the wherewithal, though, to get their hands on that report before it became public to either redact or modify as if they were on their A game, obviously. Right. No loose ends. Well, no loose ends, but also if you're doing this, you're trying to do this very quickly because of some sort of circumstance.

or whatever you're trying to do this very quickly and who's doing the redaction a bunch of non-medically trained lawyers. So I doubt anybody thought, hey, let's get, you know, let's go read the surgeon general into this conspiracy. And also, how could they have known if he did have a prostate, whatever the hell it is? Prestectomy, yeah. Yeah, it's just not like these are, these are the small details that always are the things that like end up uncovering really big things, right? It's always these tiny little details that people miss because it is impossible to cover your tracks on everything. Impossible. All right.

That's an interesting one for sure. This is where I think a false choice was created very deliberately. And I fell for this hook, line, sinker. So if I go to my kids and I say, you guys want to go to dinner tonight, you can pick, you want to do steak or sushi. They're two nine-year-olds and you know what they're going to do? They're going to bicker. I want to go to steak. I want to go to sushi.

and they're going, gna, n-knit-kn-kn-knit. I don't care. Both are great for me, right? I've controlled the choices. What happened here, I think, was deliberate and brilliant, because what they did is they had the official autopsy that was released. Cause of Death is hanging. Simultaneously, Mark Epstein hires a forensic examiner to look at the autopsy and concludes that this little bone in the neck called the Hyoid bone, broke consistent with strangulation. Was Mark's his brother? Mark's his brother. Okay. Yeah.

So from the jump, from day one, you have the official narrative hanging, unofficial narrative, murder. And you gave the people who don't want to believe the official narrative exactly what they were. Oh, yeah. You can light a match on that fuse and just walk away. Yeah. And I fell for this hook line sinker. This is where all of the Epstein isn't dead.

or the Epstein didn't kill himself memes came from, right? Years of these memes. Oh, they're still ongoing. They're still ongoing. Yeah, they haven't stopped. Yeah. But this is a false narrative. It's a false choice and it was, I believe, done deliberately by giving them exactly what

they wanted. Here's what you're hoping for, this unofficial narrative that he was murdered. And they reamplify stuff in the press about this all the time. You see like the telegraph going back and. republishing this article about Mark Epstein and the pathologist or the examiner that he hired. Why are you still pushing this? Oh, that's an easy one. They're selling soap.

Add dollars. People click it. They know they are in the business of attention capture. So they can serve you an ad. And people are drawn to this type of stuff. Oh, yeah. Especially sticky ones that have a lot of things that are hard to explain. And it will, especially, I was having this conversation yesterday with a woman.

We were just talking about conspiracies. And it was specifically we're talking about what happened with Charlie Kirk. It was wild to see some of the concepts and conspiracies that were latched on to hook, line and sinker emotionally. And we were talking about it. And I agree with what she said. People don't like not having an answer or feeling like they don't have any control. So things like that, they can get emotionally involved in it because whether the answer is a good answer or a bad answer or a plausible answer or a reasonable answer, it's at least something that they can hold on to. Feeling helpless sucks.

Yeah. Yeah. And I don't think our brain does well with it. No. So you're looking for an answer to a question that you want answered. And there isn't a good one. And I think some people, they wrap their arms around these things incredibly tightly. Yeah.

I think the danger is to start with your conclusion and work your way backward, which is the seductive piece of conspiracies is, you know, Charlie Kirk wasn't killed by a lone shooter on the roof, right? People start from there and then they work their way backwards into all manner of variations, right? What we've tried to really be careful about here is reasoning our way from the beginning down through the conclusion where we walk the reader. You make up your own mind. You decide for yourself. is this compelling to you, but we're not going to start. I mean, I guess we do because my website is Epstein dead.org, but we start with the very beginning and walk them through all the way down to say,

hey, you've got to make up your own mind from the evidence we present, and the prostate piece is overlooked. I mean, you either have one or you don't. Can't grow a new one. Yeah. Can't grow a new one in jail. That would be a medical first. Yeah.

Yeah. So what Ryan is referring to, we did in the math, or I did in the math, it's called Bayesian upgrading, right, and updating. And so the best way for people to think about this is the spam filter on your email, right? Your spam filter on your email starts with each email coming in at a 0.0 score. And then it sees the term, you know, Viagra. And it says, oh, it upgrades it as higher probability spam. And then it sees that it comes from a, you know, blacklisted email address upgrades it. From an IP in Nigeria upgrades it, right?

And it says, this is spam. And it obviously doesn't always get it perfect, but it's starting at that 0.0. For me, it was when I looked at this, I'm like, right, you can't start at 0.0 and go with the official narrative. Because if you did that, you would have to start at a deficit of bias of basically, minus 800,000 to work your way to zero. And that is without adding this kind of stuff. So you start adding this kind of stuff because a plausible, it's not actually a plausible, but an explanation is that medical examiner is just really bad at their job

and they got it wrong. They were tired that day. They were hungover or whatever, right? That is possible. It's possible. Highly improbable, but sure. Yeah. Right.

So you start, so if, if you take away. the kind of stuff that you can make these little explanations for. So either the camera went down or it didn't. Either the guards fell asleep or they didn't. You just take just the binary things that really are or are not statements of fact. And you end up with these astronomical improbabilities. It really colors this kind of stuff to like wait explanations in one direction or the other. because then it starts to explain why you then have these inconsistencies in the data that's further downstream.

And just one single data point that we haven't even talked about is that this was the first suicide in the MCC in 21 years. Really? Which is a statistic I did not include for the people wanting to attack the model. To me, that's a big one. Yeah. And like arguably one of the most high profile prisoners that MCC has probably seen. definitely a prisoner that a lot of people are paying attention to on a national basis, arguably one of the most connected in politically powerful and government circles globally.

And it just so happens to be that's the one time you make a mistake. Or that's the one time that, you know, a suicide slips to the cracks. Yeah. What do you see in post-autiful? autopsy, if anything. Is there any way to look at the money that he was put aside to see if it has moved or been messed with at all? Or does the evidence trail end with the autopsy? There's post-autopsy signals of life that are interesting.

If you go back to the cards and you search for drone, there's a guy who went over to the Little St. James or known as Epstein Island. And he flew a drone over. We're talking about the island that he owned. So that right there, we'll just leave it actually at the top. That's great. This guy flies this drone over the island. This footage is on Rumble because it's been knocked down everywhere else. And this guy, whoever he is, looks up from a side by side or a golf cart or whatever it is.

So the drone flies up onto the island and it's basically doing just a perimeter look. It's flying all over the island and looking at everything. And then it flies over some side by sides or golf carts or whatever those are and hovers for a second and then looks down. And it stays there long enough that I guess it catches the attention of the people beneath it who then this person that you see on the screen here looks out from underneath the golf cart and looks up. And you can draw your own conclusions about who that guy is. You can see the footage yourself. It's on Rumble. It's on our website.

People have zoomed in and cleaned this up a little bit. But he's got the mannerisms, the hair color, the complexion, the facial structure of Epstein. Wouldn't it be the worst operation, covert operation ever in the history of covert operations, though, to just take him back to this island? So I've been to that island. Are you on the flight logs? Did you vet this fucker? So two weeks ago Now we get to the real

Let's just say he did some He did some interesting things that I would have advised against But you know Ryan is nothing if not Motivated Okay Yeah and some enthusiasm And I didn't care too much about trespassing

Which they are pretty upset at me for Okay But I went there And that island would be the perfect place Got a buddy of his arrested in the meantime Yeah, but wouldn't that be also the first place people would look? No. Don't people in intelligence hide in plant sight?

I don't know. I didn't come. But, dude. Well, yeah, absolutely. Hiding in plain sight is a very real concept, right? One of my friends, it was a senior scientist at Sandia Labs, who we became very good friends because I just interfaced with him a lot. And, and he would always say, uh, he was saying, uh, he was saying, he was. developing mechanisms for that kind of stuff, right?

And he would always say, yeah, you can, you can be nowhere or you can be everywhere, right? But you can't be anywhere in between. And so that's a, I mean, that's the whole concept of hiding in, hiding in plain sight, right? Is you oftentimes go where the people are, are least likely to look because everybody makes that assumption. You would never be there. So why would the island be such a good place? Is it just?

control. Logistically, it is ideal. There's a family there that has been very loyal to him for a very long time. Anne Rodriguez is the island manager. She's been in the files 23,000 times. She still runs that island today. She has not been investigated to my knowledge. Is it held by the trust, the island? Was that part of the stuff that was set up? It is owned by L-S-J-V-I-L-C, which purchased it after, allegedly by a guy named Stephen DeKoff, who's this billionaire who had plans to renovated and create this five-star resort. No permits have been pulled. Nothing's been built there.

He's got an uphill marketing. Yeah, right. Challenge. Come to the beach. You know which one. Either that or a bunch of people are going to be so curious. They're going to line up to go. Which is weird.

Humans are sick. I think he has an uphill PR battle if you were to try to turn that into the next all-inclusive. I don't think that there was ever any intent to. do this, I think they tried to whitewash it. Because this family is still running this island. I know that because they chased me off of it. And so Anne Rodriguez has not been, to my knowledge,

investigated for sex trafficking and harboring people on that island for violations of the Man Act, for coordinating people to fly to that island and girls come there for the purposes of prostitution or sex trafficking. What country is she a citizen of? I don't know

her citizenship. I think she, She is initially from Puerto Rico. So I'm assuming... It's an extradition issue? I'm assuming she's a U.S. No, because she's in the Virgin Islands. So the FBI has jurisdiction there. Okay.

Right? U.S. Virgin Islands. That island would have been great at this time because everyone thought he was dead and they were arguing over this false choice. So I'm not saying he would have stayed there. And I'm not saying he's there now for sure. And that's definitely not why we were there.

Yeah. But if you wanted to go back to your island because everyone is arguing and you go clean up your loose ends. They're arguing about whether you committed suicide or you were murdered and you can go back and you can clean everything up. And we seem to indicate that on that note, there was a computer at least that he was interested in in the Virgin Islands. It could seem that way for sure, yeah.

So mentally he's in this place of, I've got to get to that computer, Galane's got to get to that, whatever G is. He calls her G in the emails. There's loose ends on this island, right? I'm not saying that's for sure him. It's a data point. I don't know.

Did you find the footage, Michael? No, I haven't found the footage. Of the drone. You've just been drawing hands, haven't you? No, I was looking up the island. How does it look? Looks like a pretty normal island. Would you go to a resort there?

I don't think so. All expenses paid. Come on, dude. Breakfast, lunch, and dinner are included. It's a beautiful island for what it's worth. I'm sure it was. I mean, the BVI is a beautiful place. It's a gorgeous place.

So there are these post-life signatures that... So what else? Potentially, some drone footage, what other kind of post-life signatures you can see? His email account is J-E-E Vacation at gmail.com. You search us in the files. That's his email account? Yeah, dude.

Somebody actually made a mock-up of his Gmail. account so that you can search the emails as if you were like logging into Gmail on his I don't know what programmer did that but like that was a lot of work yeah jmail.world they make it it looks like you're logged into your own Gmail account they they did great with it yeah so you can search for his email like you're looking through Gmail wow there's a oh yeah here's the island so this guy named rusty shackleford whoever this guy is um has this drone footage and they've changed all this so that's painted over this weird sun thing isn't there

anymore the temple the culp the temple yeah um weirdly the exact same colors as the israeli flag but do without what you will um it's painted over so well we almost had a bird strike i mean that is the beautiful island for sure yeah gorgeous place god damn it michael where's Epstein? It's like an hour long video left. It's two hours and 38 minutes. Immediately. I like the,

I like the 360 shooting range. That's pretty nice. What do we have going on there? It's like a berm, doesn't it? Yeah. Some donuts have been done in there. Yeah, there's a timestamp, I think, on the card.

I don't remember if that timestamp's there. I think that might have been tracked. If you search Rusty, it'll probably jumped you to the card. So you're saying in his email, there are, indications of him using it? There's indications that he has activated at least two accounts.

One is a War Thunder account, so it's this video game. Okay. Which is interesting. Both War Thunder and Fortnite have activity, like receipts, and I think it's receipts, and there's emails that connect to his one that he used all throughout the files

after he's dead for video games. My son uses my Microsoft account for his video games. So it's probably associated with me in some way, but I've never logged on. Because years ago, he wanted to, my mistake associated my credit card with the account. Let me just tell you, that can add up fast. In-app purchases. We had a little chat. A little chat.

A little conversation. Yeah. So I can see ways that that can happen. Having the credentials doesn't necessarily mean it's the person. Correct. For sure. It can be someone who has access to that and they want to play video games. Damn it, Michael. View the evidence.

It could go back up. View evidence. Drone footage. So if you click watch Rusty Shackle for drone tapes on Rumble, it might auto. Whoa, that's a bigger out than I thought. Hold on. Hold on. What's it ad for?

Do we need that? Venish. Oh, there it is. Go back just a touch. Michael. Don't get crazy. Okay. Guys on a four-wheeler. It's like, yeah, a couple of gator side-by-side type.

Yeah. I mean, it doesn't seem overly concerned that there's a video and photographic drone overhead. Michael, why do you keep him pause? I wonder if he can hear it. I'm sure you can. At that height, but also the wind. Do you think he also, it could be, like could just be thinking that's one of his? That's true.

right? Yeah. One of his security drones. Yeah. Michael, weigh in. Is this Epstein or not? I thought it was Epstein from the main picture, but I would also be kind of biased to think that because of this website. I mean, I would think that it was Epstein anyways, you know?

Yeah. From the main picture on the website, this one. Yeah. Yeah. But it certainly does look a lot like him, I will say. So you're saying we're persuading you? Yeah. Well, I mean, I'm already skeptical anyways.

God knows what his search history is. He might be deep down the rabbit hole on this already. But to my point, the fact that you can't just automatically dismiss this kind of stuff. Like this circumstantial, maybe he's got another brother who looks, I mean, whatever, right? Tons of explanations. But the fact that we're even considering it is because we've established that the official narrative is crap. What year was this video supposedly taken? Can you scroll down or go back up to the card?

I think I've got the year on the card. I know that when he went there, so he deleted his account in 2020. In 2026, YouTuber Nick Greig documented figures watching from the villa suggesting continuing habitation. Yeah, so there's a second. I'm wondering if this video is made in the era of AI video tools. So what we didn't do is put anything.

that could have possibly been AI on here. So that video has been circulating the internet since pre-AI. So my rule was, we're going to get that question. Yeah. And I better be able to answer that. And so there's nothing. It's a reasonable question in the area. And it's only going to get worse.

It's going to get way worse. Yeah. There's nothing on here that is post AI era. Okay. So there's these people who will post, oh, we saw them in Tel Aviv and it's this picture that, you know, is on Instagram or whatever. Boko Rican was the last place I saw. He was walking next to Osama bin Laden.

Yeah. That's a pretty dope picture. So we don't deal with any of that. And that goes with my evidentiary threshold. Nothing made it on to this timeline that wasn't more likely than not the preponderance standard, 51 to 49%. There's other things that were, I looked at and I thought, I don't know about that. And so we got into the threshing floor. Okay.

This is the stuff that I felt like met that standard. All right. What else we got? Post death. Post death. If you scroll down. We've got little as Jeff 1, which is a known selector for him. He's registered this before.

Registers a war thunder account. And this is one year after his reported death. So we didn't know this until the files came out. So this war thunder account gets registered. And I think, okay, this is weird. It could be a kid, could be whatever. But why don't just kid register the handle that Jeffrey Epstein has used before, little as Jeff 1?

I don't know. unless it was a So one of the things with my son These accounts have incredible value Because if you were in the game And had the in-app purchases or the in-game purchases It saves to your user And so they will sell these things

There's a whole commerce system around the skins And all of that stuff So I don't know if he just created this Or he was logging into an account that already existed Because I don't even know what War Thunder is But maybe that account was juiced out With all the in-game stuff That they wanted to get access to

Yeah, totally. I mean, the argument could be that a child or someone who wants to play video games on his account, just press the easy button. The wrinkle is this matches a YouTube receipt in this file that's here that we match this up to under that handle that was previously used, Little Us Jeff once. So we know that he's using this handle. It's a weird handle. I don't know why. you would a grown man call yourself Littleis Jeff one unless you're just a weirdo. But he's used it before.

Well, I mean, also think about who we're talking about. Totally. Definitely a weirdo. Super weirdo. And uses this handle repeatedly. And it attaches to both his Gmail. And I believe it's also, yeah, his email, littleest Jeff at Yahoo.com. So he's got this other email address that attaches.

So there are these multiple signal points around this where this War Thunder account goes active. Now, if you scroll down to the next card, this Fortnite, account goes active. So the username little is Jeff 1, the same one that we just talked about, was discovered as a Fortnite account and it showed active gameplay in late 2024. The files come out.

And then it gets set to private in early 2026 after people start digging into this. So what he's going to do? You're someone who can't travel. You can't go anywhere. No one can really come see you. All your buddies aren't going to go be caught with you. You've got to pass that time somehow.

Again, though, if you have two brain cells to rub together, you would just create a new account with a name not directly associated with things that are in disclosures from the U.S. government. But he didn't know that this was going to come out. I think you would have to assume that anything you did in your previous life was open to coming out. You'd have to have a clean break. So you just, but now put yourself in the hubris and arrogant mindset of these types of people. So we see this a lot like in trafficking cases, a great example. Like literally guys, traffickers tattooing their name on the victim.

Yeah. Right. I mean, not trying to hide anything. Like posting pictures on Instagram of the victims handing them piles of cash. Right. I mean, it's it's. No, I know you showed me them. It's wild.

It's egregious. And so I think that you, you know, when people start to think that they're untouchable, then you're not, you're not controlling for these variables. Because this is a, if any of that is true, it's a person who is not concerned about getting caught. And if you were Jeffrey Epstein, would you be concerned about getting caught because the world is your oyster? After all, the very first time I got arrested, look what happened. Yeah. Now look at, they moved heaven and earth.

Yeah, you got how important Caught in a cage twice and got your way out of it Look at how important and amazing I am You know Stayed cage and then a federal cage And got out of both cages The stay cage the door wasn't even locked though That's a little bit of a three-sided cage

Yeah, right? Yeah, exactly With a really large window That's shaped like a door Yeah So again There's a million explanations Yeah

For the Fortnite account for the war something the thunder for that account. There's many different explanations for that. One of them is that it's him passing time on the island because they said, hey, we're taking you back here. Yeah. Wherever before you're getting a villa on the black sea or wherever it is. And don't leave the island. Cool. Right.

Why though? Why do that for him? Because as far as being an asset for the intelligence world, you're burned, right? You can't be consumer facing anymore. Maybe you can consult on, I don't know. Maybe you can still use your network. That would be risky, though, too. So why?

Why go through all of this effort to make it seem as if a person like this was dead just in the hopes of keeping them alive, but behind the curtain for the remainder of their life? Now we get to motive. Yeah. What was the motive? I mean, you'd have to think he had an immense amount of information and potential leverage. I think leverage is a huge piece of this.

I also think that before the files came out, what were they afraid? What was the government afraid of? They arrest this guy for a sex trafficking event. He's now a defendant and a federal prosecution. If you are one of the people that is behind the scenes and you know the things that were later revealed in the files, what then is the fear in its criminal discovery. If he goes through discovery, there's no longer any control over what information comes out. They can't claim national security over that type of information?

Because you have to have a defense attorney who gets to pull all of that out to defend his client, his or her client. The government's not allowed to restrict any of it? No. How do you know that they're actually not restricting all of it? So my funny little piece of trivia about Nick is before I was married to my current wife, I was married to my first wife. And we'll not get into the details there. But what I can say is that the records of my standard very long, but standard divorce procedure that every guy like me goes through is sealed on national security grounds. Okay.

Yeah. So and the reason why is because the court of law is genuinely neutral, right? So if you are, say, an agency person under a cover and you have this, you know, official unilateral backstopped cover, you can tell law enforcement officer that cover, you can tell anybody that cover, you cannot tell a judge that cover. Right. So you can, yeah, you cannot maintain cover in court of law. It's all going to become public.

Yeah. Now, if it's a civil case, the DOJ can come in and just say this is now our case, and we're going to put it in a classified court, in which case the other party can get an attorney with a security clearance and all that kind of stuff. As much as I tried to get them to do that for my divorce, they wouldn't. But no, there was official government who came in, requested a recess with the judge and said, we need you to lock this down. And when I talked to OGC at the CIA, I was like, you know, I'm like, I'm so sorry that I'm causing these kinds of problems. Like I felt like the biggest prick on earth, right?

Because I'm like, I'm like, these guys doing national security stuff and you guys have to deal with this. And I'm like, oh no. See a team of lawyers over there? That's all they deal with, all day every day. Like, dude, you're like the third person today. Like, get in line.

Don't think you're special. So I was like, okay. So I didn't feel as bad about it, but yes. So criminal discovery. would have likely been the largest fear. Absolutely. They were afraid that it's going to lose control of it. It's going to.

And what can a criminal defense lawyer do that they have zero control over media? So unless they can convince a judge to put a gag order on a defense attorney, which is like, that's a neat trick. Like that's a standard that they, Because the judiciary, right, when we have checks and balances for a reason, right? And the judicial branch is going to go, like, I don't care if you report to the office of the president.

I don't care. Like, we don't care. This is the system. Like, if we allow those rules to be bent, then like our whole existence and our black robes is a sham. That's why you see, like, judges are very, very, very, very rarely do they allow any type of bending of the rules? when it comes to, you know, criminal cases and people potentially being convicted of crimes. That would be immediately contested on First Amendment grounds. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. And it would be a media roadshow. I guarantee that defense attorney would relish the opportunity to have. The coverage of this would be extensive. Yeah. I didn't thought about that. Oh, yeah. Because you imagine that.

The defendant does or the council does. Regardless, it's going to be a circus of media. Oh, yeah. So what would come out, you'd have everything from associates to financial records to flight logs to any kind of connection to victims, any associates connected to victims. All of this would be coming out in the most public way possible. Every government meeting. I was going to say, don't forget the connections and money via the government. There'd be real hard questions about the movement of money and the trades and the hows and the whys.

And those would be very hard to answer. And then the defense, not an attorney, but I'm trying to think of like, what would a defense attorney do? The argument they would probably try to make is called agent of the state. Right. So agent of the state is where you as a private citizen, the law enforcement officer asks you to do something. This is an example. And I'm probably butchering it and being oversimplified here. But if a law enforcement officer asks you to do something and you say no, which you as a

citizen have the right to do law enforcement officers says hey like watch that door right for me and you say roger that happy to do that you are now the argument can be made that you are now acting as an agent of the state right and so if you are acting as an agent of the state then the argument can be made that all of the rights and privileges are asked to do afforded to the state now fall upon you and there's a a landmark case in the Supreme Court, and it involves a National Center for Missing Exploited Children, which is a phenomenal organization, right, that helps to find missing kids

and kids were exploited and all that up in D.C. It is not a government agency. It is a private nonprofit. Now, it gets $60 million plus dollars a year from the federal government. So it is the only federally mandated nonprofit, right? But it is a private nonprofit. You can go to NECMEC or Missing Kids.

I think it is, donate. They're a phenomenal organization, right? Our country owes them an incredible debt of gratitude. However, they did work that led to the arrest and conviction of a pedophile. The pedophile ended up being somebody of means and ended up appealing the conviction on grounds that the National Center of Missing and Exploited Children, because they work with and directly at the beheads of law enforcement and because they are federally funded

are an agent of the state and the Supreme Court said, yes, we agree. They are an agent of the state. Damn. Right. I mean, his defense would have been to throw the government

under the bus. 100%. And all of his co-conspirators. Oh, for sure. At that point? It's like, get a pen and paper out. Let's grab this up. Do you want to go alphabetically?

Do you want to go numerically? I've got a black book. I'm should. to give you this black book. In fact, we're about to do a plea deal that involves me doing nothing. A deferred prosecution agreement, we will call it. And every year you were going to give me, we're going to take 10 years off of that for a name that I give, except this name, we're going to just take a hundred years off. And this name we're going to take, right? So you could see how any attorney, you don't even have to be a, I'm not even an attorney and I can put this together, right?

You know it sucks about all this. So, I mean, I'll leave people to believe what they want. as to whether or not he's alive or dead. There are so many people talking about Epstein and so few people talking about the corruption. And that is where I can see the government intentionally using this as a smokescreen, redacting stuff. That doesn't always make sense.

Leaving things out there, multiple narratives. That's a pretty classic intelligence sci-op operation. I mean, it didn't come from those worlds, but I mean, that's pretty... It's a limited hangout. It's a pretty textbook if you want them to look over here as opposed to over here. It's a... God, it's a tough one.

And this is why it's bigger than Epstein. So Epstein is the peak behind the curtain. So we're making the case that Epstein's alive because we believe it to be true. And this is what the evidence shows. And we're going to go where the evidence takes us. What is the real interesting piece if he's alive? is that it shows the level of corruption and rot in our government, that if we give up on this, I feel strongly, that if we give up on a billionaire-backed pedophile

used our daughters as leverage over our politicians to exact their bidding in the White House Congress, Hollywood for the sake of ends that are inconsistent with the needs of the American people. Your vote doesn't matter. Well, what it actually means in totality is that the IC runs this country, not the elected officials. Yeah. If what you're claiming is true. Or a supranational organization that has its hands in all of the intelligence agencies.

A cabal, if you will. I don't still know what that term means, but I like it a lot. And sounds good. It's a sexy word. I have a hard time thinking that all of this goes to whatever, 20 people in a room, throwing levers that are this coordinated. I think rich people want to stay rich. I think powerful people want to stay powerful.

I think it's very possible that the intelligence community, and I don't mean everybody in that by any stretch of the imagination, be very clear on that because I know there are people who are 100, and I think the vast majority, The shot callers on the seventh floors of the various. We got to keep on when we say intelligence community, everybody's like, oh, it's the CIA. There's like 16 agencies.

Different agency. Yeah, right. So whatever it is, there's something bigger than him here. Yeah, and I think that's been clear for a really long time. But what sucks is all of the attention is on him as an individual, which I'm also not against, because as you describe, he's a fucking monster. So I get that. I don't know what the hell.

I don't know what we can do about it. So before I do what I do now, I worked with rewards for justice like I mentioned earlier. So what we've done is we've created a crowdfunded reward pool for him and put in the first 40 grand. And people have been contributing to this reward pool. And the idea is that as that number grows, it incentivizes inner circle betrayal.

Say that you run your own criminal terrorist network. Tell me more. Yeah. So how did you guys? We're hiring you. Black rifle coffee. How did you guys know? We're recruiting you.

Evan Tillers. Okay. Yeah. So that you run it, right? And we're your lead henchman, Nick and I, right? And you're over there doing all your... You had recruiting problems. Yeah.

And where you're your lead henchmen and you're doing all the things that you need to be doing? And then I opened my phone one day as I'm doomed scrolling and I look at Nick and I say, there's a reward for a million dollars for information about Andy's whereabouts. What do you think about that, man? I'm thinking I need to get rid of you so I can get the whole million dollars. That's the problem. That's going to have to cut. How much you have to give to Uncle Sam?

Are these rewards tax free? I mean, they have questions about my tax planning strategy. Can I tell my CPA about this? I think it would have to be a big number, man. The risk they're associated. And again, if the corruption is as deep as a lot of this stuff points, the risk associated with bringing it to the forefront is massive. For sure it is.

It's massive risk. There are many reasons to tell someone information that others don't want you to know. Money is one ideological, ideological motivation. For sure. Ego. Ego, for sure. Mice. Right.

So if let's just run this thread, right, say, just give me the benefit of the doubt and he's alive out there somewhere. Sure. It's logistically complex to keep someone alive like that. His associates will never be persuaded by a million, 10 million. If people contribute to this over the next 10 years and we get this up to some large enough number that's persuasive as it's growing today, his associates aren't going to be compelled by this because they've got all their money. but you have to have drivers, gardeners, medical assistance,

people that will have knowledge of this, pilots. People to have knowledge of this, and they'll have the chance to make history. You could say, you're eligible for a payout if you can give us information about proof of life that can be ran down and they can be given to Congress

to... Do nothing with? I'm sorry, what? Did you say the quiet part out again? You can't give it to the DOJ. Sorry, sorry. I'm trying to give it. handle in this brain now.

Not every Congress person gets it, but there's some true believers in Congress, I think. Yeah. I think there's not many. We're losing them. But are there falling out, but there's there enough to impact change? I don't know. The level of corruption that you're talking about,

I'm sorry, would include every avenue of government that exists. Yeah. And so this is the reckoning question. Both sides of the aisle. Oh, 100%. Yeah. Without a,

down with their wings of the same bird at this point it's ridiculous say it's true though this is the question if we give up on this we just got to give up on all of it if you give up on the billionaire child trafficker that used our daughters to get leverage over our politicians and allow that corruption and rot to persist in our country and we knew about that and we just said we're helpless we give up might as well just buy a place in Costa rica and bounce out that's why this is important to us. We believe strongly that if the American people give up on this and the rot at the top, we've just basically said, take it all. And I'm not there. I'm not there yet either. I'll speak for Nick or make an assumption that he isn't as well. I don't know about him. I'm pretty

much there. I'm being honest. He started. Good luck, guys. He started there. I'm out of here. getting the place in Costa Rica 75% of the people in the room isn't bad I guess I don't it's a corruption of a size scope and scale that even if the the vast majority of Americans

agree we're not going to take this anymore the fuck does that actually mean what can we do the The path to forcing counter leverage means getting to the truth. This whole operation is a leverage operation. They are excellent at being organized and getting leverage.

That's what the whole Epstein thing was. So you have to step into their world and play their game. And the way to get counter leverage is to get to the bottom of it, get truth. The mechanism for doing this has some historical precedent. it is not perfect. But the mechanism for doing this historically was the 9-11 commission and the church committee where both of those were key American events were tragedy struck. And the American people said, we demand answers.

Congress, go get them. Now there's all kinds of problems with that. You have to trust that your Congress people don't have leverage over them. You have to trust that they're going to be forthright. You have to trust that they're going to actually provide conclusions that are not swayed by some shadow commission that's actually controlling the levers behind power. None of those things, you can control those variables immediately. But what you could do is create an Epstein Truth Commission.

There's state precedent for this. I would be hesitant to involve anybody currently in the government in doing so. The 9-11 commission, unlikely that anybody in elected government was directly involved with the planning and execution of 9-11. Right? You could talk about the intelligence agencies, whether or not they were sharing information appropriately, all of those things. This one's a little bit different. Yeah. Because the people that you'd be asking to go create this commission on this tragedy in corruption might very well have a hand in its creation.

Who says that your life's work has to be done in your lifetime? Right. So one of the things I like what Ryan is doing, and I'm not sold that he's alive. Personally, I think, okay, if I was running this Intel operation, what would I do? Even if I took him out alive, like that dude would be, he'd be fine in the bottom of the ocean as fast as I could make that happen, right?

So if you're willing, like, that's the no loose ends way to do it for sure. Right. So if you're willing to do, to turn a blind eye to things that Epstein was doing, you're also willing to do some pretty nasty stuff to Epstein and not keep your word and all of that stuff, right? So, okay. Well, to you, Epstein would be a simple pawn.

That would be like a light switch. Like, of course. Yeah, like get rid of this guy. Yeah. Right. It's a strategically positioned pawn, but we built him. We'll build another one, right? So there's no problem.

So I'm not, none of that is, again, like, again, I just don't really care about the Epstein thing other than I hope if he is dead, it was an extremely painful and long and gruesome death. Incredibly protracted. Yeah. Where he had lots and lots of time to think and feel. that said it's that that corruption piece the vote doesn't matter piece and all of those commissions you just cited had one massive event where a whole lot of people died so so government had to move quickly there's nothing that says that this just begins a conversation that causes the change generationally yeah right so if all of these people are involved

and if somebody tries to do something like this again or is doing something like this, right? Like whoever was in charge of this didn't see the human factor. So one of the things that this, this Sandy Labs buddy of mine, his name was Dr. Steve Adaway. He died of a heart attack a few years ago. But he, so I can talk about him now, he would say that mathematically you could model all kinds of things, right? you could you can model that light, you can model all kinds of things, right? I mean, so when Elon is trying to do like space station docking, right? And it goes perfectly.

Everybody's like, oh, wow, I got it right on the first try. No, they didn't. They had a mathematical model that they ran probably hundreds of thousands of times under every single condition variable, right? It wasn't the first time it happened. It's just the first time it happened in the physical world. There's, he said there's three things that they couldn't mathematically model. One was a flag blowing in the wind.

The other was a flame coming off of fire. The other was the actions of a human being. Right? There are- There are incalculable variables. Nobody saw the Epstein files getting released. Nobody saw like these, if there are people involved, they were like, we got this, we control Congress, we control this.

Yeah, people are going to have their thing and we'll feed them. cake and circuses and they'll go on to the next thing. I don't think anybody thought that this conversation would continue and this is where And it's not slowing down. It's not slowing down. It's gaining steam.

And this is where the arrogance comes in because evil doesn't know it's evil, right? So Nick, the fat electrician and myself and I was having a conversation on the unsubscribe podcast about the difference between

bad and evil. I hear people do bad things. You know people have done bad things and they know they did bad things, right? And they're kind of haunted by it. But like people who are evil, they, like, that's their worldview. They don't know what they're doing is evil. And so what if there is, if there are people behind this, right, that made this happen, they're evil. That's the only way they could, they could turn a blind eye to the abuse of children. Like there is no other plot. plausible explanation, right? You are an evil, evil person. So if they are evil, they aren't thinking hurting kids is a bridge too far. They're thinking, we've done this before and other things. And the American public's going to be all up in arms about it and they're going to move on in

six months. Like we've, we've seen this. So we're just going to do it again. This time is just a little bit different. And I think that to me is like if I had to explain, why this caught catches so much more attention than all of the other conspiracies, right? No one's doing this kind of work on like JFK conspiracy or there are people who I, last year I was having a conversation. I thought flat earth was a meme. Turns out like it's real. People like honestly believe that.

I was like, whoa. Okay. So like people aren't having these kinds of conversations about that. The reason why this is like the American public is a. dog with his bone and they won't let go is because of the harm of children. And I think that's the bridge that they didn't calculate for. And that's why this is turned into the mess that it, that it has. I think those people are also starting to see that it's bigger than that.

Like that is reprehensible. And that is the hook for them to understand it. Because they look at this power structure and it's willing to go to any lengths to preserve and serve itself. it's a machine that exists to feed itself constantly forever at any cost all for the greater good that's honestly what it comes back to if if you go under the up right under the hypothesis that he did hold the position that many people think and working with by and through the government all those things at some point a government official is going to have to stand up and say one of two things

well we didn't know and we found out you know we did something about it which good luck showing receipts on that or two it was for the greater good and we turned to blind eye and yeah that means we know that minors were abused children were abused and it destroyed their lives yeah i mean it's it's a rough day at the office yeah not a party yeah yeah yeah yeah not a party i think next point is good that this is just getting started i think it's probably a good observation that this isn't going to go anywhere No, this isn't going to stop. And the problem also is for them is they can't control the media. Here we are sitting on a podcast.

Hopefully you've been collecting email addresses. Like go for it YouTube, censor. Go for it. Go for it. Why don't you just go ahead and say that on your own show? Yeah. Sorry. It's really easy to say things when you don't incur the consequences of the things that you say.

Edit that out. But if that's what the cost of getting to the truth is, fucking send it. I don't care. Yeah. And I'll start over. Like whatever. Send it, baby. You know.

Let's go. Let's go. And I think that he would have been kept alive because to me, it would have been negligent to not have this leverage systematize and stored. Yeah. If you kill him and it all comes out, it's a dead man switch. He died. auto release. It would be negligent to not have that. It also signals to other operatives. You

talked about this earlier. He's not the first. He can't be. He cannot be. There's others out there. The redundancy aspect is very, very real. Even in military operations, primary, secondary, tertiary, you know, like you think your way all through that stuff and you have contingencies in place so you can continue to do your job and execute the mission. 100%. So was it signal to other guys if he rots in a jail cell. Yeah. But where it's drug out in front of a courtroom. Yeah.

And embarrassed. All that brought out, humiliated. They can't let that happen. So you put together motive means all these pieces of evidence. And it brings you to the conclusion that of the three options, the simplest answer is that he left the cell alive. And I don't know if he's still alive.

Nick brings a good point. Like he could have been smoked since then, right? Or just died of natural causes. he wasn't a healthy guy. But it deserves investigation. And a truth commission can use congressional subpoena power to demand answers to this. Here's how you could prove me wrong. It's not hard, actually, to prove me wrong.

It's actually very simple. Congress performs the role that the FBI has abdicated in the pursuit of this cover-up. And they use their subpoena authority to get medical records and burial records at the graveyard. that he's allegedly buried in an unmarked grave in Palm Beach County. I was going to ask, what did they do with his body? He's allegedly buried in an unmarked grave. And that is not convenient. And so there's allegedly...

I don't know if you would want to mark that grave. Yeah. People would be digging that shit up. So logistically, that actually might be the move. You could perform a double-blind DNA test, triple-blind DNA test. At multiple laboratories with strict chain of custody controls to determine if this DNA matches his brother or whoever and congressional subpoena authority could dig into this

and determine, okay, is he buried down there? If that is his body, prove it to the American people. I think I just heard a backhoe start in Palm Beach County. That's what I'm saying. Maybe unmarked might be people like, is it this one? Nope. Where's the nearest unmarked grave? Keep digging.

That excavator. That backhoe had government plates. Yeah. Right. So yeah, it's, it's actually pretty easy to disprove. Also, the, the unredacted stuff, you could very easily say, okay, we're going to have a commission that's going to go through. And we're going to say, we are going to protect the innocent as we should because that's the right thing to do as a country. We're going to protect the names of victims.

And we have essentially these disinterested third parties that are going to determine what does and does not get redacted. We're not going to leave that to the very people in question. Aren't the files that are out now, aren't they mainly or, if not exclusively, FBI or law enforcement files? That's my understanding. I would love to see what the agency has on this guy. I don't know if you can FOIA agency files. I think if you can, I know the response that you would get to said FOIA, but go away. They would give you the we cannot confirm or deny.

They would give you just a blanket one. But man, that'd be fascinating. There was a way to compel intelligence agency files. I'm going to go out on a limb and tell a story that I think I'm not going to get in trouble for time. Let's go. Let's go. So polygraphs happen. That's public.

Everybody knows that, right? That's not classified. Procedures and processes, we won't get around that. But I was selected for a random polly. just say it's kind of like a random drug test, right? Selected for random poly, all right, go and do the thing. And there's this like child sitting on the other side of the table. I mean, it was literally maybe like week one, day one, brand new to the, brand new to the game.

And they're sitting there asking me all kinds of stuff, right? They're looking for a threat to pull on. And they're asking me things. And she gets to the, I've been through these before. and this one is very clearly like, I almost kind of like want to be giving her pointers on like how to be better at her job, right? But it's taken a while.

If you were to ask this question, you might get a different physiological response. Right. It's taken a while. And so she starts asking about drugs and whatnot. And part of it is one of the questions that she ended up asking, and I don't know if this is something I ask everybody or whatever,

but it was about prescription drugs, right? Like using or giving prescription drugs to other people. And I was like, oh, yeah. Right? And so she's like, oh, thread to pull on. And so she starts asking me more. And then it's like, well, what about narcotics? It's like, oh, yeah, right?

And I'm talking to all this stuff. And on all of what I think in her mind was my abuse of prescription drugs. You know where this is going. Right? I was a PJ. What are we running around with? NARTS. All kinds of prescription drugs.

and we are not doctors and we like, right, like under the civil system, that would be illegal under the military. That's what we do. And so I'm sitting there just having this very casual conversation with her. And she's very, it's clear to me that she thinks she's pulling on a thread. I'm being the most transparent and detailed in my answers. And she's taking all kinds of furious notes. She didn't have the context.

She didn't have the context that I had that I assumed she. had. I tend to be the ass and the assume quite often in my life actually. And so, so she's like, okay, I need to, if you admit to a crime in a polygraph as a federal employee, there are consequences for that, right? So she stops it and she's like basically reading a paragraph from a piece of paper, making it clear that I have rights. And I stopped. I was like, hold on.

I said, we talked about all this stuff. I said, where is any crime? She's like, well, you just admitted all this stuff in prescription structures. I was like, yeah, because of my military background. Like, it was a PJ. It was a sock. I was a, like, call him whatever you want.

I was a guy who's, that was my job. Those were government drugs that I was trained. to give people. Yeah, this wasn't the corner of Fourth and Maine. Right. And she was like, oh, okay. I was like, didn't you read that in my file? She's like, oh, no, there's no file.

And I was like, come again. Like, I have filled out a lot of paperwork. And you're telling me you guys don't have the common courtesy to hold onto it. She's like, oh, no, you're, she's like, you're a U.S. citizen. As soon as your clearance is adjudicated, we have to get rid of all of the information we used within 30 days. So the agency, I am pretty convinced probably doesn't have anything because you a citizen. I would be more interested.

What if he was a source or an asset? I cannot get into how that works. But it's not the way that you think. And a source or an asset has full constitutional rights. One will just sleep at that. It wouldn't be the agency that I would think would be the actual problem. Because who is the proponent for intelligence? inside the United States of America, who's responsible for all intelligence and counterintelligence

inside the United States of America? And if, say, a CIA special agent is going to go do something in the United States of America or a CIA case officer or somebody's going to do something in the United States of America and a U.S. citizen is involved who has to be with them. Yeah. The FBI people, when they hear intelligence agency, they always think that, central intelligence agency, right? It is the FBI that is an equally robust intelligence agency. FBI, the I may as well stand for intelligence, right? So 9-11 failures, who bears the major majority of that weight?

Based on the reports, assuming they're true. It's the Bureau, right? which agency has had a since its inception, right, since Hoover really, has had a history of being weaponized for intelligence purposes against say the Black Panthers or M. MOK.

Yeah, MOK. Like, so there is a repeating historical pattern here when it comes to intelligence. Also, based on some stuff that we know about, say, a kidnapped or attempted kidnapping of a governor right those types of things who has a history of essentially trying to instigate criminals into doing criminal things right so for me right and I'm not just saying that because you know like I work at the agency like good god the stories I could tell um right but to me it's

if you're going to look in an intelligence and you want to see where a file is, who has the authority and the mandate to keep files on U.S. citizens. Yeah, that makes sense, actually. Right? And we know they've got more. We know for sure.

They've got way, way more. Yeah. Do you think we'll ever see it? No, I don't, not in this administration, maybe in a future administration. And then I worry, the longer they hold on to stuff, the more that they can manipulate stuff. And so if we do end up seeing things in the future.

And the more stuff disappears. Destroy it. Or the more, they backstop current narratives. And we're at a place now where you can create things that look goddamn near real. Yeah. You know, that's why I think I said at the very beginning, I don't think we'll ever get closure on this. Because even if they say, hey, this is everything. How do you know?

Yeah, it's a good question. Especially the further you get from it, the more time they have to destroy information. Now they can just conjure it up. You could throw some of these documents, 100 documents into clawed. and say make something that says this thing and then it's gonna spit out a document that looks just like it. Oh, you can spit people into orbit

with what you can create with these tools? And that's now, what does that look like in five years? Full motion videos that are indistinguishable, drone footage of, you know, Epstein boxing, Mike Tyson on his island. I mean, what is it going to look like? So if what Ryan is doing is using the Epstein

to get people to pay attention, right? That's the bright flare. Yeah. Again, to me, it's not about Epstein. It's about what's the flare illuminate. It's the what seems to be by all measurements an insane amount of corruption. And I just hope that there is actually something that we can do about it. Like, I don't know how you leave these conversations with any hope that we have the ability to correct that corruption or get it into check.

Because no one agency was managing this by himself. Oh, God, no. No. So, I mean, how deep could it potentially go? That is what pisses me off. I agree with you. I just hope he had a really extended, medically induced and held on to departure. Just really nurse it.

Yeah, I hope he's dead too. Experiments. Yeah. Yeah. I think the first step is you got to just convince people that there is corruption. Like people... Do we really need to... I think we're past that step, right?

I don't. I don't. So his comment earlier, he was like, oh, yeah, I've been there. Like, I get it, right? This is a friend of mine who brought his kids to dinner. Where have you been, Michael? What's that? Where have you been?

Earlier you made the comment about, like, yeah, you're kind of like aware of this. Like, you know, we're talking about corruption. Do you think that there's government corruption? Oh, without a doubt. How about your generation? What do you mean? Oh, oh, what's the opinion of? Yeah.

Speak for your entire generation. Like your friends. Forever. You're the official representative. Oh, I mean, nobody has any faith. I mean, like at all in the government, at all. Did you begin that way when you signed in the military or you or when I became a federal agent? No.

Right? This is a generational transition. I had willful blinders on and quite frankly, like. I held them on when people were trying to rip them off. Yes. I would go so far as to say for a period of time in my mid-20s, early to mid-20s, that flag was my religion. Yeah. like like I was I was that into it like and that's really hard you're going through this whole hard stuff right I graduate PJ school my two best friends both die like within six months and it's like like you're going through that and and you're like oh but all this stuff like that doesn't mean what you think it does like that is like no I'm not going to look over there because I'm going to because I've told myself

all this stuff and they have told me all this stuff and surely they're right. It can mean what you think it does. It just doesn't mean that everybody else feels that way. Agreed. I still feel the same way about that flag. I just realize that not everybody does. I still believe that that flag can stand for the beacon and lighthouse that I want this country to be,

which is what drives me insane about the corruption because I think that flag stands for truth. It does to me. I'm not and that and that's just me maybe maybe jury's probably back on this one maybe I'm an idiot but it still means that to me for sure it's jarring when you realize to some it's transactional to others it's a stepping stone to get to where they want to be even though they'll say this is what it means to me too but there's this crazy divergence between what they say and what they do I think if we can get more people to understand that it still can mean that, but that means getting to the root issue,

getting to the truth, and then doing something about it. And again, that's why the, it's, I don't know, God, people will probably view this conversation of,

oh, good job doing an episode for fucking clickbait. It's like, first off, just step back and eat your own dick. But if you're flexible enough, I don't want anybody to hurt themselves. You can try though.

I do have cargo straps. if people need assistance with their L5 flexibility. Hey, here's something for you. Oh, these, these are Michael's favorite snacks. Eat a bag of dicks. All flavors. Yeah. It is, it can still be that.

Yeah. I believe. I'm not ready to throw in the towel. It just seems so overwhelming. I don't know what to do. Yeah. Other than to do my best to have conversations like this, which have absolutely really nothing to do with fucking Jeffrey Epstein.

Right. And everything to do with trying to figure out a way to get to truth when it would seem like from every direction, people are just hucking things. Yeah. To try to obscure your, so you get this passing view through the bullshit that's being thrown at a glimpse of the truth. Mm-hmm. We are in an epistemological crisis.

Epistemology is the science of studying how you know what you know. The United States is in a crisis right now. that is one generation away from death, where if you have a generation that says, we're not giving up on the truth, that flag means something to me. And then my kid's generation, or even ones that are a little bit older,

say, yeah, it's always been corrupt. It's always this way. We'll never know the truth. After that, it's lost. Yeah. The clock is ticking. I mean, there always has been an aspect of corruption. I'm sure the founding fathers were awesome.

I would love to get a time machine and give them like a week in 2026, be like, hey, guys, how did we do? Look at all the stuff you didn't see coming. Check it out. You guys won't see the internet? Yeah. Here's the thing there. Zero percent chance that they were all 100% altruistic.

Totally. There's always. We know they weren't. We have documentation. And that's what I'm saying. Like there's always been an aspect. And there's always going to pay people who see something other than the truth or what it could actually stand for or what it could be or become or what it means.

Doesn't mean the whole system needs to be a little on fire. Right. What do you want to leave people with? We've been at this for almost three hours. Oh, wow. I got a quick question for Ryan, based on what it is that you're doing here. How's your physical health? Heart in good condition?

Yeah. So I've got to give the speech, okay, I'm in great physical shape. I work out six days a week. Are you suicidal? I'm not suicidal. Do you do blackmail? I can. And as of January, January, congratulations.

I can swim. I'm a pretty good swimmer. I have great maintenance on my car. my breaks are in great condition. Yeah. And I love life and I'm more happy now than I've ever been in my adult life. Despite all the dark, the dark conversation. Yeah.

I have a wonderful life. I have an incredible wife who lets me go and talk to people about crazy stuff like Epstein. I have amazing children. Um, and I, you know, at the risk of sounding like a little dramatic, I want the next generation to have the hope that I did about my country. And if we just let it go. Isn't that what it's actually all about? That's what's about, man. That's what's about.

Leave it. It's supposed to be leave it better than you found it. What other questions do you have for Ryan? No, that was the other one. Thanks, buddy. Yeah. It's on the record. You're right here.

If I show up dead. Here's the thing, though. Let's just take that clip and change it to AI. Like, I am fucking depressed. I binge eat Oreos and cry myself to sleep. Where should we leave people? What do you guys want to leave people? In reality is this, on the Epstein stuff,

I recommend the people do as much research as they can and make up your own mind. Absolutely. I don't know. That's it. Thanks for having me on. And Nick, I really enjoyed this conversation. You're a truth seeker. You've cared about these issues and the ones similar to them. And talking truth seekers to truth seekers, there's two classes of people in the United States. As far as I'm concerned, there's the truth seekers and the secret keepers. And if you're a truth seeer, I'd say, go look at the evidence for yourself.

Epstein isn't dead.org. It's a campaign of closed horizon. And we make the case for this. Make your own conclusion. and if it is compelling to you, the reward pool is the mechanism by which we create inner circle betrayal to get proof of life. And you can also go to take action on our website and you can send an email to your legislators.

It's copy and paste. We tell you who your legislators are to demand an Epstein Truth commission. Nick, what do you want to close that with? Just keep telling people to use the internet and the ways that they do and that you'll find them eventually.

Yeah, just bad guys just keep doing what you're doing. Dip shit. One of the things that we've talked about so many times when I've been on this podcast is like, is like, why is there a need for deliver fund? That's why, right? Do you think that members of Congress are like, oh, we're going to abolish the ATF and we're going to turn it into the anti-trafficking, you know, federation? Yeah, let's do that. I'll put my signature on that or are they going, ooh, that hits a little close. to home, we're going to table that in committee.

Right. Yeah. So, so this also is a little bit of an example. And I understand it's a very, it's very self-serving. Don't look to the government to solve all your problems. No. It's coming to save you. Yeah.

And civilian organizations can be way more nimble. And, and way more effective. Yeah. Way more effective. And so we, um, so this is kind of evidence of what it has I've been saying for eight, nine, 10 years, which is the reason this isn't being funded at, at the federal level is because they're in on it. Now that we're working with some folks in DC

at the federal level who are very interested in getting to the bottom of this and what we're doing, because what are they always, how do you get something done in the federal government? It needs a budget line item. What we're doing in DC, we're just gonna fund it. So we're taking the wind out of the, we don't have funding for this sales,

which has, has taken it from a political appointee. And they were like, oh, okay, that makes sense to me. Yeah, do it. So they were able to use their authority without having to go to Congress and ask for money to get some data into a place that it needs to go to have what I would call an incalculable impact. So by us, that's, I think also partly how we save it is these public private partnerships. So if your theory about personnel in the FBI or the DOJ wanting to kind of help folks like yourself out, well, then it's up to us to then do our part. So the public-private partnership is really important.

And the last thing I would say is like, if you want your vote to matter, then there are so many good people who are listening this podcast who if you ask them, when are you going to. run for state office, when are you going to run for city council, when are you going to run for Senate? When are you going to run for governor? And we're talking like normies who would be amazing at that job. People need to start stepping up. Because when I look at our choices, I go to the voting booth and I look at our choices. What I see is I'm like, this is not very impressive. Yeah, it's the lesser of two evils often. And so, so like we really need. people who have say are very financially sound had a great you know run run in the family plumbing supply store exited it to whoever now they're you know they're financially sound never served to the

country paid your taxes did all that great like now's the chance like you're you're in your 60s you're not going to join the military but you can step up and run for governor and run for these elected positions, city council school board, right, county commissioner, like that to me is one of the ways that we get this changed is we change the political class. The only way that's going to happen, and I say this in hypocrisy because I'm not running for anything, I also kind of feel like I've done my part, you know, and so we really need other people to step up and say, okay, I can do this. And also I would say I'd probably be a pretty terrible politician because like Nick, you can't say that on camera.

Stop. Stop. I'd be so far over the line of where I was supposed to be that I would probably end up in federal prisons. Really back in. Someone get him. Yeah. So anyway, that would be the thing I would say is like people need to start running for office because that's how we'll have that generational change. Thanks, Jens.

Thank you. Fuck. That was a long one, but good. What do you think about the, uh, um,