Close All Tabs - How an OnlyFans Model and a Cosplayer Are Fighting Nonconsensual Deepfake Porn

Episode Date: May 13, 2026

We’re diving into the world of nonconsensual deepfake porn and why this problem reaches far beyond influencers and sex workers. When users on X started asking Grok to generate explicit images of real women and girls without their consent, Twitch streamer and OnlyFans creator Morgpie watched the harassment spiral in real time. Cosplayer and software engineer Zander Small saw firsthand how nonconsensual images affected his girlfriend, a SFW creator, and her friends. The two decided to team up to build tools that help creators detect leaks, remove deepfakes, and reclaim control over their images online. Note: This episode contains mentions of gender-based violence and nonconsensual intimate imagery, which may be triggering for some listeners. Guests: Morgpie, OnlyFans creator and cofounder of Fanlock Zander Small, content creator and cofounder of Fanlock Further Reading/Listening: Influencers take on AI deepfakes with their own creator protection agency — Virginia Glaze, Dextero Musk’s Grok AI chatbot is still making sexual deepfakes, despite X’s promise to stop it — David Ingram, NBC News The Deepfake Nudes Crisis in Schools Is Much Worse Than You Thought — Matt Burgess, WIRED Take It Down Act: How to use it to remove revenge porn — Jasmine Mithani, The 19th Image-Based Sexual Abuse Laws: Combat Nonconsensual AI Deepfakes — RAINN AI & Tech-Enabled Sexual Abuse: Risk & Prevention — RAINN Deepfake Statistics 2025: AI Fraud Data & Trends — Mohammed Khalil, DeepStrike Read the Transcript here Email us at ⁠[e-mail]⁠ Follow us on⁠⁠ ⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠ and⁠⁠ ⁠TikTok⁠ Credits: Close All Tabs is hosted by Morgan Sung. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, editor Chris Hambrick and senior editor Chris Egusa who also composed our theme song and credits music. Additional music from APM. Audio engineering by Brendan Willard. Audience engagement support from Maha Sanad. Jen Chien is our Director of Podcasts. Ethan Toven-Lindsey is our Editor in Chief. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hi, I'm Sasha Koga. I host the California Report magazine. We bring you in-depth personal stories about your neighbors, your communities, and the issues affecting all of us as Californians. But the future is powered by you. If you've been listening but haven't donated yet, now is the moment. Make your gift today at donate.kwed.org slash podcasts. Hey, it's Olivia Allen Price from the Bay Curious podcast. You've probably heard that federal funding,

for public media has been cut. That's left KQED with an $8 million budget gap. So now, more than ever, we need your support. Please give whatever is comfortable for your budget and help keep programs that you love going strong. Visit donate.kud.org slash podcasts. From KQED. Are you closing your tabs?

You can be honest, this is a safe space. If you're a fan of close all tabs and you want more of it, then please rate and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to the show. And tell your friends about us. It would be such a huge help to get the word out. Okay, let's get to the show. Just a note, this episode contains mentions of gender-based violence and non-consensual intimate imagery, which may be triggering for some listeners. So, you know Grock? It's the AI chatbot integrated with X, the social media app formerly known as Twitter, and now owned by Elon Musk. Well, since late last year, Rock has been embroiled in an undressing scandal, generating sexually explicit images of people

without their consent. The majority of targets were women. Some were minors, young girls. For a few weeks, it was a pretty disgusting, widespread trend. When women or even teenage girls posted fully clothed photos of themselves on X, other users would comment and tag Rock, asking it to put her in a bikini or take off her top. The chatbot would publicly respond with a generated, lewd or completely naked image of the subject. Some users went even further, asking Grock to add blood and bruises, prompting the chat bot to generate graphic, sexually violent images of these women.

It was very much like I was waking up every day and I didn't want to post. This is Morgpie, a Twitch streamer and only fans creator. People who know her IRL call her Morgan. She's been a porn actress for years, and as someone who makes sexually explicit content, she's used to creeps harassing her with her own nudes. But the grok and dressing trend really unsettled her. It was the worst in January. Being looped in with something that is so violating,

and like you said, something that's even affecting minors, is just disgusting. Every day I was going into my comments and just like hiding replies and blocking because I'm like, I'm not going to let you guys just generate these images of me that I did not consent to, especially if it's being associated with basically creating child pornography on Twitter. This was non-consensual intimate imagery. More commonly known as deep fake porn. A deep fake is content that has been generated or manipulated by AI to imitate someone else.

Zander Small, another content creator and a friend of Morgans, says that the proliferation of AI tools has started to seriously affect content creators, regardless of whether or not they make adult content. Deep fakes can be anything from deepfaked explicit imagery with a creator doing something or nude content that they didn't consent to. Or it could be stuff as simple as like an audio deep fake where a creator is saying something that they didn't consent to, which, you know, might have repercussions of them being canceled or stuff that they just obviously wouldn't consent to saying. Morgan hasn't had to deal with deep fake porn of herself as much. After years of being in this industry, she's developed thick skin.

She's mostly dealt with leaks or explicit content that she posted behind a paywall that was illegally downloaded and posted elsewhere. without her consent. But the grok trend is just the tip of the iceberg. Non-consensual deep fake porn has exploded over the last few years. I think that for a lot of people, the lack of consent is very attractive. This is an issue that overwhelmingly affects women, and these circles are not as fringe as you might think. An annual report last year by the cybersecurity firm Deep Strike found that roughly 97% of all deepfakes online fall under non-consensual intimate imagery. And that 99 to 100% of victims of deep fake pornography are women.

Here's Xander again. I think it is either fans, if you want to call them that, or just creeps on the internet, wanting to see more out of a creator that they consented to. I know it affects a lot of SFW creators. SFW, or safer work. They don't show nudity or make sexually explicit content, while NSFW, not safer work, means adult content.

I guess from that, you know, if a creator isn't consenting to do more explicit content than these, I guess, perpetrators creeps who everyone to call them, you know, take into their hands to do it themselves. And it's incredibly easy to deep fake content. And, you know, as models get better and better and they get quick, and quicker, it doesn't really require as much of sophisticated technology to run these models. Some of the mainstream models, ChatGPT, Gemini, Claude have guardrails that are supposed to prevent them from generating deep fake porn. In January, X announced that it implemented technological measures

to prevent GROC from modifying images of real people in revealing clothing. But there are ways to get around these guardrails. Just last month, NBC News reported that Grock is still generating deep fake porn of real women. And like Zander said, there are so many other models out there that just don't have these guardrails in the first place. Zander hasn't had to deal with deep fake porn of himself, but he's seen how much it's affected people he's close to, other safer work creators who don't make explicit content. And Morgan, coming from the porn industry, has seen how much this issue affects her fellow adult content creators. So late last year, they teamed up to come up with a solution for other creators.

Today, we're diving into the seedy reality of non-consensual deep fake porn. When it got so bad, why it's so hard to stop? And how two Gen Z content creators are trying to tackle it. Ready? This is Close All Tabs. I'm Morgan Sung, tech journalist, and your chronically online friend here to open as many browser tabs as it takes to help you understand how the digital world affects our real lives. Let's get into it.

Let's open our first tab. The reality of non-consensual deep bake porn. Morgan is an award-winning porn creator. Literally, she has multiple PornHub awards. And when she started years ago, the internet was very different. It's very interesting because when I first started, the climate was very much like if you opened up Twitter, you would see tweets that are like, sex work is real work. Of course, this was kind of around the time when OnlyFans was only just emerging barely.

In the world of adult content, there was before OnlyFans and then there's after OnlyFans. The platform completely changed the game, lowering the barrier of entry for new creators and giving them new options to monetize their content. Morgan said that before OnlyFans blew up, the only way to make a living as an independent porn creator was to land on the front page of Porn Hub. Or, actresses had to break into the industry by being part of studio productions, where they didn't have as much autonomy. It's very interesting, like, the shift between whenever porn was basically, like, widely available, you didn't really have to pay much for it. When I first started, I was uploading to Pornhub, and that was like full length, full scenes that you could see for free at any time. Whereas now, the climate has shifted a lot to where creators like myself have a lot more control.

So we're able to use OnlyFans as a platform where we are more connected with our audience. That is actually the main pole. Now we're in this age where these models can kind of take a bit of that control back. They can control what content they make, how much they sell it for. And I think that that plays so much into like the conversation about deepfakes where it's about control. It's about consent. And then with deepfakes, you can make anybody do anything. So you have the control over this other person.

Since joining only fans, Morgan and other adult creators have dealt with the same problem. Leaks. They consent to paying subscribers accessing certain premium content that's been posted behind a paywall. Then some unscrupulous subscriber downloads it and posts it publicly without their permission for the rest of the world to see. It was a constant source of frustration for Morgan. And then about a year and a half ago, Morgan noticed the deep fakes. Her friends told her about how they stumbled across videos of themselves online. But it wasn't really them. Someone had taken explicit content from behind their paywalls and modified it,

morphing them into these scenarios that the creators never wanted to be in. Again, it all stems back to control. It's like, oh, you did this thing that I didn't like. Well, look at this control I have over your image. I'm going to use that against you. I think some detractors would say, like, oh, well, if you make explicit content, why does deep fake porn bother you? Or why do your leaks bother you?

What would you say to them? I mean, it's all about consent. That's like saying, oh, because you make porn. If I see you on the street, I can sexually assault you. You know, it's like consent is a very real thing. And there's a big difference between me in the comfort of my own home, within my own boundaries, producing content that I enjoy, and somebody else taking these things and, you know, making content that I didn't consent to be in.

It's not just Morgan and her fellow porn actresses dealing with this. Women who don't make explicit content are also subjected to this harassment. One of the most well-known cases of this was when Atrioc, a Twitch streamer, was live. During his stream, he showed his open-tebrose. tabs for a split second. And one of them included deep fake porn of his own friends and streaming colleagues. He was caught buying this content. Cudy Cinderella, another streamer, was one of Atriok's close friends. She was also a victim of the deep fake porn he bought. Aetriok for showing it to thousands of people. The people DMing me pictures of myself from that

website. Fuck you all. Pokeyman is like a great example of this. Pokeyane is another Twitch streamer. who was also a victim of Atriok's deep fake porn purchases. She does not make explicit adult content. But as a woman existing online, she deals with harassment constantly. Like, here she is reading comments from her audience. Yo, yo, yo, let's see some ass. This ain't a club, fam. This is just my Twitch chat.

There's so many clips of her literally just getting up and standing up out of her chair and like, that'll get clipped and posted all over Twitter. and all of Twitter is like, look at what she's doing, she's gooner baiting. Gooner bait started as a term to describe video games or anime that aren't pornographic, but contain a lot of sexual imagery like jiggle physics and very scantily clad female characters. It's media designed to appeal to gooners. Gooners are porn addicts. And now, internet randos love to accuse real-life women of gooner baiting,

mainly female streamers like Pokeyane. She's, you know, performing for her male audience. And it's like, well, is she really doing anything? She kind of just got up and walked out of the room. But they're like, oh, her pants are a little too tight. So it's like, I think this idea of a woman that's kind of just not really even doing anything, a lot of people love to just over-sexualize. In some online circles, there's the sentiment that women like Morgan deserve to be deep faked because they already make porn.

And that women like Pockemain also deserve to be deepfaked because they're somehow gooner baiting. It even affects people who don't post online. Non-consensual deepfakes are rampant in schools. A wired investigation last month found that high school boys have targeted their fellow classmates by spreading fake-generated nudes of them. These are teenage girls. Yeah, the thing is, it's not going to stop with sex workers. As much as, like, the sentiment these days is very anti-sex work, like, oh, if you make this content, you're kind of putting yourself up to be distributed in this way. But the thing is, is it's 100% a slippery slope, and it's going to keep going into, you know, Twitch streamers who are known and even just normal people.

There's nothing stopping anybody from pulling up, you know, somebody's Facebook profile, just a normal person who doesn't produce any content whatsoever and making explicit deepfakes of them and distributing them. And that can be used as, you know, blackmail. I mean, like, the possibilities there are quite literally endless in terms of the harm that they could cause for everybody. You've talked about spending so much money on deep fake takedowns, but how did you initially try to tackle this problem of like deep fakes and leaked content? I was going in every single week and I was Googling my name and I was going on like Twitter, Reddit, all these other sites just like searching for my name and seeing pages and pages and pages of all this leaked content that would come up. And back then, I was paying over $1,000 a month on these takedowns, but I would still have to go in and manually report a lot of stuff. Morgan was at her wit's end. And then late last year, she saw that Zander was working on a project that may be able to solve her problem.

And she wanted to help. We'll hear Zander's story after the break. But first, we wanted to remind you that close all tabs depends on listeners like you to keep us going. You can support us by becoming a member at donate.kud.org slash podcasts. Okay, back to the story after the break. Stick around. Support for KQED podcasts comes from the Exploratorium, presenting life in space. Explore the science of how life, human, or extraterrestrial, might survive in space. Now through September 13th at Pier 15. Tickets at exploratorium.edu slash space. Support for KQED podcasts comes from Star One Credit Union.

Give your savings account the love it deserves. When you keep your money with Star One, you keep more of your money. Star One Credit Union in your best interest. We're back. Now, let's open that new tab. What is Fanlock? Zander had started out as a Minecraft YouTuber back in high school. It was a fun thing he did on the side before he went to college to study software engineering.

He was on his high school robotics team and loved tinkering and fixing things. A few years ago, during his sophomore year, he started going to anime conventions with his friends. Here's the thing. Zander's really tall. He's 6'8. His friend pointed out that he could carve out a real niche as a comically tall cosplayer. So he pushed Zander to start posting. He was like, bro, it's going to be like viral because like, oh my gosh, why is a gojo

cosplayer, like, as tall as, like, LeBron James. So I did it, and it did pretty good, and I guess it just snowballed from there, and I just haven't stopped since. About six months after he went viral as comically tall Gojo, he started getting brand deals from anime companies. He gained hundreds of thousands of followers. He flew all over the country, attending cons and meetups. He even hosted a few lookalike competitions. There's a picture of the Hatsunamiku lookalike competition he hosted. a gaggle of cosplayers in turquoise wigs, and then Sander towering above the crowd in his own turquoise get up. Of course, he was still in school, juggling a burgeoning full-time career as a content creator, while also attending classes and doing homework and studying for exams.

He considered dropping out, but his parents really, really wanted him to stay in school. They weren't thrilled at the idea of their son leaving an engineering degree to pursue anime content. So he stuck it out. And last year, while finishing up his last semester of school, he stumbled across this deep fake problem. It struck a very personal chord. So about a month before I graduated, my girlfriend, who's an SFW creator, had a huge deep fake problem. You know, there's accounts popping up on like threads or Instagram that either use her likeness or just full-on non-consensual porn. deep fakes of her, which is super mentally taxing on her, you know, as an SFW creator, you know,

she didn't consent to being in those positions or having these accounts to DM her fans like, hey, send me $400 and we'll go on a date type of, type of just scam content. So it was from there that I was like, let me see what's up and see if I can help you. So that's when I really took a deep dive into DMCA, you know, non-consensual imagery, and, you know, depending on the platform, it's on what you can do about that. DMCA, as in the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. It's copyright law for internet content. And I was able to get a lot of her stuff down, which was great.

But then at that point, it was like, you know, what are the other players in the space doing about this? What he found were take-down tools that were very expensive and not that effective. While creator management firms and talent agencies have in-house services for this, they're inaccessible to smaller creators. After Zander helped his girlfriend, her friends reached out to him. They had the same problem. And then their friends reached out.

And all of this coincided with his post-graduation job search. He planned to at least try to use his degree. But the job market for entry-level software engineers was rough. I think by the third final round interview at like some fang company where they rejected me after four weeks and, you know, five interviews, I was just so fed up. I was like, you know what, screw this. I'm going to just do this myself. I'm going to make my own company. So and at that time, you know, it's like the overlap of like, oh, I'm really like, I figured out how to do this.

I could help more creators like this and really solve a real problem. And so he started working on it, a tool for creators that would scan the internet for leaked and deep-baked content and automatically send DMCA takedown requests. And if the sites didn't comply, this tool would have to find other ways to force a takedown. Zander knew how traumatic it was for his girlfriend and her friends to be constantly confronted with non-consensual deep-bake porn. So he wanted this tool to take down content automatically without creators having to see. it. And the tool also had to catch the non-consensual deep fix before they spread to other platforms. But he knew he couldn't do it alone. He needed the perspective of other creators for it to really work. I pretty much just posted on my close friends at some point, like, hey, I'm thinking

about doing this as like an actual like business or something like that. If anyone will be down to just test it out for free and see how good like my, you know, scanning architecture and stuff, like that is, let me know. And Morgan actually swiped up on the store and was like, hey, that actually sounds pretty neat. I'd be down. Morgan and Zander had met at TwitchCon a while back. And we opted in a call and I was like, would you be down to like, do this with me? Because like I think it'd be pretty sick if we had like two creators doing it that know the

problem. You know, Morgan knows firsthand like the adult space, but as well as like a firsthand account of like leaks and deep fakes and, you know, where they live and stuff like that. And, you know, I guess from there, it's one of those things where it was like, I think this could be a real player in the space and I'm really passionate about it. Morgan, what was it like for you to see that story? I've struggled with this stuff for so long. I know so many people that I could like tap in on and get their feedback.

and my scope in the space is so wide because I've had my eggs in so many baskets online that I knew that I would be able to bring a good perspective and good input. So they managed to raise $200,000. And with that, Morgan and Zander launched Fanlock earlier this year. Zander handles the technical side, making sure Fanlock works. And Morgan handles the creator side, managing outreach to other creators. I guess I get to apply that degree that I was considering dropping out to do content for. And it's, I guess, like a full free 60, you know, everyone that was like you should stay in school and finish it out.

I guess it came back to be useful because now I can apply it to helping my, you know, friends and other people in the space with this really real problem that they have. This solution isn't that straightforward, though. That's a new tab. Why is it so hard to take down deepfakes? In May last year, President Trump signed the Take It Down Act, a landmark law that criminalizes the publication of non-consensual intimate imagery, including digital forgeries, aka deep fake porn. It's one of Congress's first bipartisan actions to tackle AI-generated content.

The law also requires online platforms. to implement a removal request system and to take down deepfake porn within 48 hours of a request. A lot of these sites, thankfully, already had like forms or different reporting mechanisms to report deepfakes. But I think with this act itself, it's a really good step in the right direction to combat non-consensual deepfakes. And, you know, props to the government for doing something right for once and actually passing this really quickly. So the Take a Down Act is only enforceable under U.S. jurisdiction, although the EU also has similar laws. But a lot of these sites are based outside of these places, like in Russia. Yeah. So for like Russia and Chinese sites, it gets a lot harder because they don't have any need to comply to either like deep fake penalties or DMCA because it's specifically like USA EU jurisdiction typically.

and that makes it a lot harder to get content down off those sites if it's even possible at all. There's a few things you can do for these sites to, there's been some sites I know firsthand that they use, let's say, like a USA-based company for their notification system. We're able to submit basically a DMCA to those companies, basically being like, hey, you know, just so you know you're aiding in copyright infringement by working with this client. If we were to take it a step further, you know, we could always issue like a DMCA subpoena to them if they use like Google analytics, for example, to straight to Google.

And that would help us get more information about, you know, the actual like emails of the site, you know, who this person actually is. So if they're in like the EU or USA, we can take those legal routes. Obviously, there's sites. I know that are pretty much, they're built from the ground up for piracy and it's pretty much impossible to get those stuff down. One of the more difficult aspects of tackling deepfakes is catching them before Google indexes them. Basically, storing webpages in its own database so they appear in search results. Because once something appears in search results, it spreads like wildfire. Google updated its search functions a few years ago to identify deepfakes and prevent them from appearing at the top of search results. But there are still deepfakes that slip through the cracks.

Zander said that Fanlock keeps tabs on specific sites that have histories of hosting non-consensual deepfakes. They scan them and send takedown demands before they hit Google search results. You know, no one wants their family Googling them or something, and they see deepfakes with them all over Google images. I know Fanlock also relies on a lot of facial recognition technology to identify leaked content and deepfakes. Obviously, the technology is very controversial. It's often used in law enforcement and has to. a lot of connections to surveillance. But what are your thoughts on this use of facial recognition technology?

Yeah. I mean, obviously, if a creator signs up for our platform and we're doing it in a consensual manner, I think that's great. I obviously am big anti-surveillance, but I think the key word of the end of the day is just consent, which is like the fundamental problem that I think these creators are having. And if they're consenting to a service to take down stuff that was made, non-consensually. I think that's why our creators are okay with it. I think there's a big differentiation between that and then some tech company scanning my face to see if I'm a criminal

or something like that. I want to talk about some of the technical challenges that still exist. You mentioned like trying to build a telegram scanner right now. A lot of non-consensual deep fake porn is passed around and closed channels on Discord or group chats or telegrams. Do either of you have any experience with this happening? What is the approach here? When we were building Fanlock, I was like telegrams like the final boss of piracy. I really want to build a solution that while we can't scan 100% of telegram, I want to build the absolute most comprehensive telegram scanner we can based on like what's publicly available and what providers there are to us.

So for Telegram, typically for like private groups and stuff like that, you're able to join them if you have like a join link, which we've kind of gotten from people being like, hey, I got leaks here, join my channel. And after we get the join link, we're able to figure out where copyrighted content is. We already do have our telegram scanner up. You know, we have about 11 million channels, you know, from our own services, but also third party providers that we use that have kind of indexed telegram for us, which is, great. Discord is a little bit trickier because it's a TOS breach to use any sort of like bot activity on that. TOS is Terms of Service, the contract between a platform like Telegram and its users. For now, like on Discord, if someone has a link that they've noticed that they want down, they can submit it to us and then we can do it from there. We currently don't scan Discord because it is like a TOS breach to do. But, you know, we're hoping as, like I said, as we grow, that door can open. Overall, what hurdles still exist when it comes to taking down deepfakes? Like, what's the kind of like technical white whale you're still chasing? Yeah, I'd say the biggest thing that we're

trying to roll out is actually identifying who leaked or who deep faked X, Y, Z content. I think if we were able to do that, we might, I wouldn't say solve the piracy problem, but definitely lower it. you know, we're really hoping we can get in talks with, you know, platforms like OF, F, Ansley, or Instagram and stuff like that to roll out a technology that we're working on where basically it embeds like an invisible watermark into different images and stuff like that. So if it is leaked or if it is deep faked or if someone else's face is put on it, they're able to know who exactly posted it based off this invisible embedded technology, which already exists for sites like Netflix. It's how they track like video, I guess leaks or, you know, from studios that maybe have like a trailer for the new Avengers movie and I want to track it that got leaked on X or anything like that. I think if we're able to get that done, like I feel like we'd significantly fix the problem and be a lot more proactive because, I mean, if people start realizing, oh, shoot, if I leak or deep fake content, my account gets banned. Like, it's going to really throw a wrench in the whole leak ecosystem. And that's what we're really trying to build towards right now.

You're coming from very different sides of the internet kind of, you know, whether in the safe work side or, you know, the adult content industry. But this is also a problem that deeply affects both of your spheres of, like, the creator economy. How has the proliferation of deep fake porn change the creator industry for you? And what would you say to someone who's afraid to keep posting? The unfortunate thing is it's such an uphill battle when it comes. comes to deep faked and leaked content, especially with AI getting as good as it is right now. But to somebody who is kind of scared to post right now, just know that there are people who are

trying to find solutions to this kind of stuff. And for these people who are generating this kind of content, it's very much about their own sense of control. It doesn't reflect you as a creator. You shouldn't be afraid to post what you want because of this horrible threat of somebody taking your content and basically twisting it into something that you didn't consent to. And hopefully our government can kind of catch up with this kind of stuff here pretty soon. But there are people like me and Xander who are trying to take real steps to help mitigate this. For creators, I'd say, you know, if you need to get anything you need for support on it, do it. You know, if you need to take a step back, do it.

And then I'd say, like, it's a twofold thing where it's like don't glamorize generative AI video and image content because not only speeds up the industry. And then also really push for better legislation and, you know, call your senator, call your congressman, like get it past. because it's only going to get worse as it gets easier and it's able to be done for more people. I think those are probably the two biggest things a creator can do right now that has an actual, like, tangible impact to halt this problem or make it slow down at least. Well, thank you both so much for talking about all of this. Yeah, thank you for having us. If you or someone you know has been targeted with deep fake porn, there are ways to have it removed.

Fanlock also has free guides for creators navigating this problem. Check the show notes for more, we'll link to a few resources about the Take a Down Act and how to remove non-consensual intimate imagery. For now, let's close all these tabs. Close All Tabs is a production of KQED Studios and is reported and hosted by me, Morgan Sung. This episode was produced by Chris Agusa and edited by Chris Hambrick.

The Close All Tabs team also includes producer Maya Kueva, and audio engineer, Brendan Willard. Additional music by APM. Audience engagement support from Mahasanaad. Jen Cheen is our director of podcasts. And Ethan Tovin-Linsey is our editor-in-chief. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild,

American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California local. Keyboard sounds were recorded on my purple and pink, dust-silver K-84 wired mechanical keyboard with Gatoron Red switches. Thanks for listening. Thank you.