Close All Tabs - Save or Scroll: Looksmaxxing, AI Fruit Love Island, BTS Arirang, and Meta Lawsuits

Starting point is 00:00:00 Support for a key QBD podcast comes from Xfinity. Thanks to the Xfinity five-year price guarantee, your guaranteed five years of reliable Wi-Fi with our best equipment, no annual contracts, and no fees. Plus, get online in minutes with same-day Wi-Fi. Lock in your price and unlock the possibilities. Xfinity, imagine that. Restrictions apply, select plans only.

Starting point is 00:00:25 Ugh, you also having trouble with scammers trying to poke holes in your dam? We need a phone plan that stops these pills. at the perimeter. That's why I switched to Google File Wireless, a wireless plan built with industry-leading security. Google AI helps block pesky scammers so my info stays secure, and best of all, unlimited plans start at just $35 a month. Whatever you do, your site with Google. Explore Google File Wireless plans today. Plus taxes and government fees. Block spam known to Google may not detect all spam calls. From KQED. Hey, it's Morgan. We just celebrated the show's first birthday. That's right. Close All Taves.

Starting point is 00:01:03 is a Pisces. Want to celebrate with us? It would be so, so helpful if you could rate and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to the show. And tell your friends about us, too. Okay, let's get to the episode. Hey guys, welcome to close all tabs. I'm Morgan Sung, tech journalist, and your chronically online friend, here to open as many browser tabs as it takes to help you understand how the digital world affects our real lives. Except today, we aren't opening any tabs. Instead, we're doing another save or scroll. We've done a few of these now. Occasionally, while scrolling, I come across a truly wild post,

Starting point is 00:01:44 but it might not make sense to spend an entire episode on it. Maybe I do a little digging, and it turns out that the lore behind it just isn't compelling enough to justify a deep dive, but I'm still dying to talk about it. And this is the beauty of save or scroll. The game where a guest comes to the show, and we trade stories from the internet that we're dying to talk about. Today, we have the one and only Steffi Tao.

Starting point is 00:02:08 Thank you so much for having me, Morgan. I'm so excited. Okay, Steffi, tell us about yourself. Hi, everyone. I'm Steffi. I'm a culture journalist and Slate's newest dating advice columnist for Unhinged. You can buy my writing everywhere from The Atlantic to Rolling Stone to the Guardian to Slate now. So I'm very excited to share all my tabs on Morgan today.

Starting point is 00:02:33 Okay, so let's talk about the rules of Save or Scroll. Save, as in when you see a post on Twitter, TikTok or Instagram or X and you bookmark it, add it to your save folders, or if you're me, drop it in Notes Up and hope that you'll remember it's there. Basically, you're holding on to the story because you know you'll want to dig into it more. And scroll, as in you think about it and then move on. It disappears into the digital ether. So Stephanie and I have each brought some stories that we can't stop thinking about, and we're going to go back and forth to decide if they're worth a deep dive on the show. So if we decide to scroll, it means we've talked about it,

Starting point is 00:03:06 we're moving on. And if we save, it means that we might hold on to the idea for a future episode. Okay, Steffi, please tell us about looks maxing. Over the past few years, looks maxing is this subculture of young men primarily who are seeking guidance from other men in terms of how to gamify their looks to become super, super hot. The essence of looks maxing is basically the hotter I can be, like, the better my life will be around other men. And the pinnacle of these content creators currently is a man named clavicular of collarbone fame. He's a 20-year-old white man who has a very soft elfin face and a Dorito-shaped body and has really been associated with a lot of, like, Nazi ideology has been recently arrested for inciting a fight between two women, allegedly, and also allegedly shooting an alligator in Florida. He was kicked out of Las Vegas, I believe,

Starting point is 00:04:18 and has become this sort of lightning rod for this entire culture of all these men wanting to get hotter and be hotter. Yeah, and clavicular first went viral for not only his extensive skin care, and workout routine, but for also saying that he microdoses meth and would hit his face with a hammer to get a more, I guess, angular jawline. What a man. What a guy. What a character. Cliffingler is like so fascinating to me because his political stances are indecipherable. He has gone on some more like right leading podcasts. And when they try to get him to be kind of transphobic, he said, I did a podcast with Michael Knowles the other day. And he's sitting. here saying like and getting all mad about transgender and I'm like bro that's one more person to

Starting point is 00:05:06 mog you know what I mean so like I don't get too I don't get too upset when people go trans and all that shit that's just another person to bog yes how would you describe bogging mocking I think is the essence of being hotter than somebody else so if you've mugged them it's like you've shown them up in some way that's the goal of the game right is to mug other people right tell tell the boomer cells about what that is so magging is essentially just just outperforming them, looking better than them, and just sort of dominating, right? It came from something called AMOG, which was alpha male of the group, then it was short to just MOG. So that's kind of like the term we use.

Starting point is 00:05:45 So the language has become like a bigger than itself sort of phenomenon where, you know, maxing and mauging have started from this internal community and then now become sort of like general ironic gobbledygook for everybody. It's so interesting too because the whole looksmacting thing has become like the peak manosphere content. All the allegedly straight boys are really into doing all this to impress other men. It doesn't seem like they actually do this in any way to appeal to women. And like I've seen a lot of like gay men point out this is literally gay male culture, what they're doing, the peacocking, trying to show each other up and like only seek validation from other men, which is from a genderer perspective. I'm like, what's going on here?

Starting point is 00:06:29 It feels like horseshoe theory a little bit. They are doing all of these performative things that come right back to a drag of what straight man is. It's like it's heterosexual drag. Like you're trying to, you know, build up your face a certain way. You're trying to mob other straight men. Like that's drag, honey. Like I, I, it is. Like, that's gender performance. Yeah. I mean, self-improvement and like lean so well into fascist ideology. Because a lot of lot of it is predicated on this idea that you can earn your way into something better, which is exactly what looks maxing is, right? You can gamify your looks. Like, if you're not hot now, all you to do is, like, do all these steps and gain more points, more aura points until you have achieved this thing, which is exactly why in Nazi Germany you see a lot of propaganda being espoused about the strong man. And like, that was like a huge beauty standard at that point in Hitler's Germany was specifically this idea of a man who was super jacked and a strong man. And a strong man. And super like is mocked really and I have no other work for really it's just like they really

Starting point is 00:07:37 a mugged man has always been this cultural fascination and in many ways a mocked woman obviously has been a huge part of fashion ideology for a long time you know think about all these essays about why republican women all look the same and they have this specific look about them And it has a lot to do with this culture of self-improvement and making all these alterations to yourself to try and earn your way or like bootstrap your way into beauty and therefore access and power and all of these things. Yeah. Okay. Well, looks maxing. The big thing of the year right now, do we save or do we scroll? Oh, I'm saving it because I think there's going to be developments. No. Yeah. Yeah. There are going to be new words that I've never been said before.

Starting point is 00:08:25 it's going to be crazy. But looks maxig as a trend, I think we're saving. After the break, a new bombshell enters the villa. Unfortunately, she's AI-generated and also made of fruit. Steffi and I are going to explain all of the drama around AI Fruit Love Island. Stick around. Support for a key QBD podcast comes from Xfinity. Thanks to the Xfinity five-year price guarantee,

Starting point is 00:09:03 you're guaranteed five years of reliable Wi-Fi with our best equipment. no annual contracts and no fees. Plus, get online in minutes with same-day Wi-Fi. Lock in your price and unlock the possibilities. Xfinity, imagine that. Restrictions apply. Select plans only. So good, so good, so good.

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Starting point is 00:09:44 That's why you rack. I have a story for you now. Are you familiar with AI Fruit Love Island? Oh, am I? Oh, my God. I feel like it came out of nowhere, and then it's sudden, it's like omnipresent now. So for the uninitiated, AI Fruit Love Island was this interactive AI slot, parody of Love Island with sexy anthropomorphized fruit. Welcome back to Fruit Love Island. Today,

Starting point is 00:10:17 we've got a steamy challenge. And after over 370,000 viewer votes, our bombshells have officially hit the villa. All right, ladies, let's get this started. You'll be kissed one by each guy. And after each kiss, you rate it. Okay. So that is one of the episodes of Fruit Love Island. What was happening in that clip? It's basically just, just a real Love Island challenge, but done with fruit. Yeah. They have human bodies, but their heads are fruit. These are all, like, obviously done by AI.

Starting point is 00:10:49 The colors are highly saturated. It's super bright, super, like, in your face. And then a grape man wearing a Hawaiian shirt and board shorts, like, comes up and kisses the fruit ladies blindfolded. Repenzo, you're up first. That was hot in 8.5. You see all these badly done reactions. actions in the background of these AI

Starting point is 00:11:14 women laughing and sort of being like ha ha ha, ha, like this is crazy. So it just is like a Love Island episode but with fruit. So for context, this TikTok account kind of came out of nowhere. AI Cinema 021 and they gained about 3.1 million followers

Starting point is 00:11:32 in like a week and a half. And now there are so many copycat accounts. The characters include Limeria, the line, Benonito, the banana. who has abs and is always shirtless. Strawberry, the strawberry, Cocoa Nick, the sexy coconut. And yeah, it's like, it's not good.

Starting point is 00:11:50 Like, the animation and voices are all stilted. There's zero consistency. It's pure slop. So viewers gave, like, storyline feedback via Google Forum and, like, voted for their faves on, like, in the comments. And this account was getting crazy numbers, like, 20 million views per episode at its peak and, like, just churning out new episodes every day.

Starting point is 00:12:09 I feel like it used to be kind of embarrassing to enjoy this kind of content. But then you had like Zara Larson and Joe Jonas being like, oh my God, I can't wait for the next episode. Like major celebrities. But yeah, what's your like initial gut reaction here? I think it makes sense why this thing is taken off because even though people, like young people online want to act like only boomers love

Starting point is 00:12:31 watching AI Slop, like the fact is our brains are like primed to watch AI Slop. We have all these deep fried memes and like internet humor is so self-referral. But it removes a lot of these barriers in our heads of like consuming something like this that really feels as though like, okay, maybe what could be embarrassing previously. It could be ironically fun now. I love it because it's fascinating to see how excited people get about it. But like, is the content good? No, it's trash. But I don't think it's trying to be good.

Starting point is 00:13:05 Well, have you been following the great AI Fruit Love Islands crash out? I have not. that happened over the weekend. Okay. So this account literally gained millions and millions of followers, three million followers in like a week and a half, which is insane. Like there are human creators who grind for years to get a third of that. But, you know, this account was able to just churn out content so fast and people were invested. So basically, people were criticizing the account for being AI slop and criticizing viewers for being slop consumers. And the creator did not respond well. In TikTok comments, they complained about how hard it was to make this content and basically

Starting point is 00:13:45 implied that like viewers were ungrateful. A real hilarious irony where they were like, it's really hard because I have to prompt so many times and the AI sometimes messes up and I have to redo it and then I have to edit it together. And it sometimes takes me like three hours to make one of these videos. And it's like, yeah, well. Imagine how long it must take to film a real TV episode. It's so funny that they're like, this is so hard. Even like having to prompt a generator to be like, and now make strawberrya kiss the Kiwi man is like too much effort. So then their video started getting removed.

Starting point is 00:14:23 The creator claimed that it was part of a mass reporting campaign and started crashing onto their story. So this was the first one. They were, I guess, sick of it, right? They were like, this is it. I'm sick of all of you. They were getting criticized. for like wasting water basically.

Starting point is 00:14:40 And people were pointing out like, hey, this is like really shitty that you're kind of encouraging this consumption. So they were posting like, was a good run, didn't expect any of this. But here we are. From being a nobody to being canceled, I guess I'll take it. People hate to see people win. That's awesome. With screenshots from like their episodes.

Starting point is 00:14:58 That's the funniest thing I've ever seen. I'm so glad y'all got what you wanted. Saving the planet three gallons of water at a time, truly inspirational. Fuck all y'all, you jealous motherfuckers. Save the planet. OMG. Water. OMG. I love water. Clean water. Please clean water. What y'all sound like. That's hilarious. Thanks for 3 million followers, though. Wow. I guess some might like it. Then they posted one final one basically saying like this series is over. This is it with Bananito, a fan favorite, unfortunately. The sexy banana that is never wearing a shirt. sure um and basically they said all right fuck all you bitches no more fruit love island since people are so obsessed with it all my videos banned i make no money i guess i am being targeted because no other a i account getting fucked y'all heard it from bananito himself bye bye it's just really funny because they also got mad that other like copycat AI accounts were like copying their theme which is a real

Starting point is 00:16:01 like so many layers between like being mad about the copycats and then being like suddenly like creative integrity matters basically and then being mad at like the effort it took to make these videos the layers of complete unawareness just go so deep it's one of those things where I'm like oh like of course this is where we are people are so fixated on this idea of it's fine until it's me because like passive consumption is just so like self-centric you're only thinking about yourself so of course this person's like mad that like um Other people are stealing their AI fruit slop content. Content is now contributing to the AI Slop database that can then pull out more content.

Starting point is 00:16:45 It's like a content self-eating snake, you know? But I will say there is one glimmer of hope, despite how many people were obsessed with this slop, I would say there's an equal faction of people who are really into human-made content. And so this inspired several Fruit Love Island non-greens. AI copycats, which I will show you now, which is really beautiful. I love that people are doing this. Welcome to episode one of Fruit Love Island. That's not AI. I've made sure to gather the juiciest of drama in the villa in the past day. Now let's see what's happened. I'm here to break hearts, not to fall in love. Hopefully these guys don't get too attached. Or I don't. I won't, though.

Starting point is 00:17:35 So it's basically a similar idea, but it's not really animated so much as like there are these photoshopped pictures of like people, human bodies with fruits for heads. It's a human being that made this and it's not as refined, but they did get voice actors on Discord to like volunteer their voices and voice all of this. And so I'm just like really encouraged by the fact that this has kind of blown up this non-AI fruit love island. I think that's beautiful. I think we need to reject modernity and embrace tradition in a lot of ways. Because I mean, we already had annoying orange. Like, we need to bring back the original recipes. I know. And like, Annoying Orange, I hated that content. I did dread it. But you know what? A human being made it.

Starting point is 00:18:19 A human being made it. So AI Fruit Love Island. Do we save or do we scroll? I'm going to scroll on it, but I defer to you. I'm going to scroll on it too. I think it had a good run. I don't think we need more of it. I think the crash out was beautiful and hilarious and a real internet moment. Perfect irony. It's truly like perfect. Tell us about this next story you brought. What's going on with BTS's new album? BTS was away in the military for four years. And the K-pop group, who was arguably one of the biggest acts in the industry and has been for many years, returned with an album called Adirang.

Starting point is 00:19:04 And it was predominantly sung in English. And because of that, as well as the fact that it was a different sound from what they've previously put out in the past, it was, I think, personally, sonically more mixed. Watch this, watch this big going hooligan. We pop out. We act in a fool again. It became very controversial. It didn't also help that when they did their first live performance in Seoul after the fact, there were a lot of statistics reported about how many people actually. attended. They shut down a very busy intersection in Seoul, saying that 300,000 people were expected to show up. Korean officials, some of them said that, like, as low as 42,000 showed up. There were adverse impacts from store owners who expected a lot of influx but didn't get that. And so now there's this huge debate happening about this album, what it means for K-pop in the

Starting point is 00:20:01 industry and, like, how things have shifted, et cetera. Do you think the fandom has aged out of acting like fans? I think that the industry has shifted a lot and what a fan should act like has changed with it. Because I think like in the past, the eternal struggle of a BTS army was trying to convince people that K-pop was a serious art form. That it wasn't like just some silly thing that teen girls listened to, that it was corporate slot pop music. there were a lot of like uphill battles, I think, for a K-pop fan. And I think now, over the past four years, like, you've seen a lot more Western embrace of K-pop as a serious art form, as a legitimate cultural export and not like a niche subculture. So I think that with K-pop demon

Starting point is 00:20:54 hunters, with, you have like Black Pink headlining Coachella, you had a cat's eye at Lelopalooza, Like, you had all these, like, bigger acts coming out of a Korean system that I think is, like, legitimized it in a different way. And so I think that, like, BTS Army doesn't have to convince anyone anymore that BTS is legit. It has shifted this fan identity of, like, okay, well, now what? Like, and now what happens? Right. You mentioned that, like, the entire album is saying in English, or, like, all the lyrics are mostly in English, which is interesting because Adiang is a really culturally important folk song in Korea. with a lot of history behind it.

Starting point is 00:21:33 I think people expected a little bit more of that cultural representation with this album. Yeah. I think Beatist also throughout their career really emphasized their Koreanness, especially because they tend to sample a lot of traditional Korean music, a lot of Korean culture comes into play into their performances. And so I think that it was disappointing for a lot of fans to open up this album and hear like Teddy Swims and like in the song, right? They end on a country song, which is like, possibly the most American form of music that we associate in mainstream culture.

Starting point is 00:22:14 We don't associate country music with Korea. Yeah, right. And it's a hard thing to follow K-pop Demon Hunters. Just like the way that that movie was such a cultural moment and how it introduced so many people to Korean folklore and Korean culture and Korean language. That was a movie that was in English, but a lot of the songs were in Korean. And a lot of people who have never spoken Korean learned those songs. And so it's interesting that BTS wouldn't see that and like kind of sees the moment. Yes, 100%.

Starting point is 00:22:42 I think that it's frustrating as an edge of a fan to feel like the whole reason that you fell so deeply in love with this group has suddenly shifted under your feet. And that the intention of the group's project didn't a lot of where you thought they were going to go. Yeah. Okay, well, BTS's new album, do we save or do we scroll? I think I'm going to personally scroll on it, but I think that there's a lot to talk about in terms of like Asian artistry. Right, there's a lot to keep an eye on, but personally, I didn't, don't come for me, Army. I didn't like the album. Me either.

Starting point is 00:23:22 So I'm going to scroll on it. I was just bored. I was bored. I'm an Army. I'm an Army down and I got the tickets. Any Army that wants to go from me and I will see what met life. I got the tickets. And what now? But you can be disappointed. And I'm disappointed to be disappointed.

Starting point is 00:23:36 I'm disappointed. And you're allowed to scroll. And I'm allowed to scroll on it. Okay. Last story for today. The Mehta lawsuits. Okay, so Mehta faced two separate lawsuits. One in California over social media addiction and one in New Mexico for child safety. The one in California took place in L.A. And it centered around this 20-year-old woman who said that she became addicted to YouTube and Instagram. Instagram as a child, and that that greatly affected her mental health. So Snapchat and TikTok were also both defendants, but they settled before it went to court. And a jury in L.A. found Google and META both negligent because the design of their apps encourages infinite scrolling.

Starting point is 00:24:19 And the companies didn't warn users about the dangers of that. So the plaintiff's lawyer said that both META and Google intentionally target kids and prioritize profit over safety. The jury concluded that META is liable for $4.2 million in damages, and Google is liable for $1.8 million. And then for the case in New Mexico, the state sued META over child safety issues. Former employees testified that underage users were shown sexualized content on Instagram and were exposed to predators. And during the court proceedings, they said that META's decision to encrypt Facebook Messenger blocked access to evidence of predators grooming minors. Basically, this is the first time that New Mexico as a state was able to success.

Starting point is 00:24:59 sue Meta. So now Meadow is ordered to pay $375 million. So these lawsuits are being celebrated as huge wins for child safety and like kind of like taking down these evil tech companies. But I'm kind of skeptical of big companies like Meta and Google actually changing their practices. And whenever I hear like child safety social media lawsuit or like child safety and social media in the same sentence, I'm like everyone wants kids to be safe. Everyone wants to. Everyone wants to. protect the kids. No one wants to expose kids to predators or inappropriate content. But alarm bells are going off in my head where I'm like, will they be using this to justify more surveillance and more censorship and more practices like age verification, which we've

Starting point is 00:25:44 covered a lot on the show. Yeah. I mean, it makes sense that like there's a lot of cynicism around like these child safety lawsuits because what we've seen over a career is that like every time there has been one of these like landmark lawsuits, it's like what does it actually put into practice? people have been concerned about this topic for many, many years, but it feels like the people who are in Congress still miss the mark on the concept of social media as itself. Like, we've seen endless clips of Congress people essentially asking Mark Zuckerberg for like tech help during Senate hearings. So it makes sense of this verdict, even though it's being lauded as like a huge case. I'm not like convinced on it either. We've seen meta pay up a lot in the past and it hasn't seemed to really shift the needle at all. And it's like if anything, the practices don't change. Kids aren't necessarily safer. And everyone else is a little bit more surveilled and censored. Like with the current wave of age verification requirements, like sweeping any internet platform whatsoever, where you have to put in your ID to continue using Spotify in some countries. And I really distrust that. And I do kind of worry that like any kind of trying to like ensure child safety on social media will just be used to justify more age verification laws. Yeah, 100%. I think that the solution, trusting big tech to manage more of our data and requests that we give up more of our privacy is like it makes a lot of sense as people who've grown up online and we've seen this play before. It does, I think, breed more of a culture of surveillance.

Starting point is 00:27:08 I think also the problem with this lawsuit is that like it's not a silver bullet. Like this is a multi-pronged problem where it's like a part of it is having adults be smarter about their tech use and in and teaching their kids to critically analyze the content they're consuming day in and day out. It's a lot on the education system. It's a lot on, you know, providing, like, structural support for young kids to have more time offline, to build all these social skills that when you are isolated and just, like, on your feet, even though it can be very fun and, you know, exciting to, like, be on Tumblr as a 16-year-old,

Starting point is 00:27:42 freewheeling it online. You still need an infrastructure behind you to teach you all these social skills that, like, you don't really get when you are online. So it's, like, a multi-prong problem. It really is on every adult, regardless of it. regardless of where you stand, if you have kids or not, to try and train yourself to be better about your own skill set, you know, because, like, they're kids. They're just imitating whatever resources there. Right.

Starting point is 00:28:08 And it's like Taylor Lorenz on her Free Speech Friday series pointed out that, like, a lot of kids do still, like, you still need to let them have agency online in some capacity. And just like, you know, a lot of kids do rely on these, like, online resources to, like, access information on sex ed. or like find queer community when they like don't have that in real life. And to potentially silo them further and take that away could actually endanger kids. Okay, the child safety lawsuits with meta and Google, do we save or do we scroll? I feel like we're going to have to save it because this is going to continue. Yeah. God, it's like it's an evergreen save. This is just collecting more and more tabs every day.

Starting point is 00:28:58 Thank you so much for joining us, Steffi. Where can people follow your work? Thank you so much for having, Morgan. You can check me out on Instagram at Steffi Tso, S-E-F-I-C-A-O. And my substack, it's Steffy. Perfect. Thanks so much. Close All Tabs is a production of K-Q-E-D Studios, and it's reported and hosted by me, Morgan's son. This episode was produced by Chris Agusa, who also composed our theme song and credits music. It was edited by Chris Hambrick. Our team includes producer Maya Cueva, additional music by AP. Brendan Willard is our audio engineer.

Starting point is 00:29:36 Audience engagement support from Mahasanaad. Jen Sheen is our director of podcasts. Ethan Tov and Lindsay is our editor-in-chief. Some members of the KQED podcast team are represented by the Screen Actors Guild, American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, San Francisco, Northern California Local. Do you like these deep dives? Are you closing your tabs? Then don't forget to rate and review us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to the show.

Starting point is 00:30:01 Maybe you drop a comment, too. Thanks for listening. Support for a key QBD podcast comes from Xfinity. Thanks to the Xfinity five-year price guarantee, your guaranteed five years of reliable Wi-Fi with our best equipment, no annual contracts, and no fees. Plus, get online in minutes with same-day Wi-Fi. Lock in your price and unlock the possibilities.

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Close All Tabs - Save or Scroll: Looksmaxxing, AI Fruit Love Island, BTS Arirang, and Meta Lawsuits

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