Club Random with Bill Maher - Amanda Knox | Club Random with Bill Maher

Episode Date: July 27, 2026

Bill Maher welcomes Amanda Knox to Club Random. Wrongly convicted and imprisoned in Italy for years before being exonerated, Knox has since reinvented herself as an author, advocate, and stand-up comic. She reflects on what prison actually does to people, the strange economy of cigarettes behind bars, why she rejects the idea that "everything happens for a reason," and how surviving incarceration reshaped the way she sees the world.Amanda and Bill also spar over free will, "pretty privilege," and whether AI is pushing humanity toward a future we can't control. Bill then opens up about the biggest regret of his younger years—and why wisdom always seems to arrive too late. Support our Advertisers: Try QUO for free PLUS get 20% off your first 6 months when you go to https://www.quo.com/random Subscribe to the Club Random YouTube channel: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/c/clubrandompodcast?sub_confirmation=1⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Watch episodes ad-free – subscribe to Bill Maher’s Substack: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://billmaher.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you listen: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/ClubRandom⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Buy Club Random Merch: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://clubrandom.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices ABOUT CLUB RANDOM Bill Maher rewrites the rules of podcasting the way he did in television in this series of one on one, hour long conversations with a wide variety of unexpected guests in the undisclosed location called Club Random. There’s a whole big world out there that isn’t about politics and Bill and his guests—from Bill Burr and Jerry Seinfeld to Jordan Peterson, Quentin Tarantino and Neil DeGrasse Tyson—talk about all of it.  For advertising opportunities please email: [e-mail] ABOUT BILL MAHER Bill Maher was the host of “Politically Incorrect” (Comedy Central, ABC) from 1993-2002, and for the last fourteen years on HBO’s “Real Time,” Maher’s combination of unflinching honesty and big laughs have garnered him 40 Emmy nominations. Maher won his first Emmy in 2014 as executive producer for the HBO series, “VICE.” In October of 2008, this same combination was on display in Maher’s uproarious and unprecedented swipe at organized religion, “Religulous.” Maher has written five bestsellers: “True Story,” “Does Anybody Have a Problem with That? Politically Incorrect’s Greatest Hits,” “When You Ride Alone, You Ride with Bin Laden,” “New Rules: Polite Musings from a Timid Observer,” and most recently, “The New New Rules: A Funny Look at How Everybody But Me Has Their Head Up Their Ass.” FOLLOW CLUB RANDOM https://www.clubrandom.com https://www.facebook.com/Club-Random-101776489118185 https://twitter.com/clubrandom_ https://www.instagram.com/clubrandompodcast https://www.tiktok.com/@clubrandompodcast FOLLOW BILL MAHER https://www.billmaher.com https://twitter.com/billmaher https://www.instagram.com/billmaher Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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We've slapped our new logo on t-shirts, tie-dies, hoodies, and hats, and all with premium printed labels. Look, I wasn't kidding. We have it, because tags are like the junk mail of clothing. All merch is available exclusively at clubrandom.com. Once again, that's clubrandom.com. Are we? Oh, you haven't noticed that by now?

No. Oh, wow. You like the kids and I don't. Now we're on like Barbara Walters. That's a really good question, but. It clearly doesn't haunt you. Club random. Hi, Amanda.

How are you? So nice to meet you. Well, you came around. Oh, of course. Yeah, I was admiring. all of your amazing art that I heard gets like turned around like you're an archivist of art and history? I fucking yes I am.

I better think of, no, it's funny you jump up. Some of the guests we've had here. They just sit and watch you. They really can't get up. Why? Because they're fucking old. Oh, their knees don't work anymore. Well, they just, you know, this chair you kind of sink back.

I have an extra pillow underneath to, like, be on par with you. You are always on par with me. I have to tell you, the people you know who I recommend you, it's like a magi of Whitney, right? Whitney Cummings. Did you see her in the bathtub? I did. I cozyed up with her. She, that doll is, like, of my nightmares.

But also, it's this person that I love who's been so supportive of me. Nicky Glazer. Nicky Clazer. Sam Harris. Sam Harris. I mean, you're recommended by like some of my favorite people. Oh, well, they have been so. Yes, that's for you.

Oh. That's my newest book. I always forget. We're plugging. No, actually, I wasn't even. This is a show for God's sake. This is professional. Professional show business.

You're kind of a librarian of stuff. So here's just one more thing to add to your library. Oh. When did this come out? This came out in 2025. Right. So, but wasn't there a book before this? Yes. So this, right, this isn't, you must be tired as fuck of talking about, you don't have to talk about the book. No, no, no. I mean, look, this show, as you can see already, has no professionalism or a gender or we might, we might not. Yeah, okay. I mean, it's, you know, I was told you can really take a joke. Yeah, oh yeah, please, do. So, I'll tell you, when I walked into, do makeup, but my producers are there and I'm always like working on my other show. and, you know, I said, I don't know anything except she killed a guy in Italy. That is the story, yes.

But, you know, it's only funny because we know it's not true. And that's, but, yeah, you got the Mark Twain Award. I mean, the president tried to stop it once and who knows, you know. It's like an execution date. Well, let's not talk about me. No, I want to know. I want to be a professional, Amanda. I'm a professional.

Well, okay, but I'm actually really excited for you. I'm excited for you. You went through more than I did. I mean, I only had to get past Trump. You had to get out of Italy. We both met on journeys. How many were in your prison? So it was a relatively small, it's a woman's prison.

So women's prison. Small private women's prison. Yeah. It was like Bernard. It was like Sarah Lawrence. It was whatever. Yeah, Sarah Lawrence of prisons. No.

It was anywhere between. So when it was not very full, it was 30 women, and when it was quite full, it was like 90 women. You made friends for life? I made friends with one person I'm still in contact with. Is she out of prison? She is out of prison. She got out before me, actually. And when she got out, she sent me a letter every single day after she got out and I was still in prison because she was really worried about me.

Must be so boring. Must be the worst part of this. There's nothing to do. You know what? It makes you feel like you're not. yourself from the inside out. Like, it's, it's, if you do not have training for how, one of the things that that actually attracted me to meditation was the ability to like be at peace with just your mind.

Like, I fucking struggled with that in prison that like I, I, like, my crutch was reading books. I read hundreds of books. But if I found myself in a room. Oh, so they give you a book. I was allowed books, yeah. And I devoured them. Multiple languages.

I was just like just giving. Whatever they had or? Whatever they fucking had. So you couldn't order a book. It wasn't like Amazon. No, no, no, no, no. Could you request a book and get that book? No.

It was more like I would tell my family that I wanted a book and then they would buy. Oh, they could send you a book. Yes, they could send me books. With a file in it? Is that, did you ever have to, bribe the screws with cigarettes. Cigarettes are currency in prison. Yes, it is a currency.

And one way to solicit favors from others is through cigarettes. Yes, that is a fact. Did you ever think of escaping? I had fantasies of like the CIA coming in with a helicopter. and pulling me out. No, but you doing it. Me? No. Yeah, like Andy and Shawshank.

No? No? No, I didn't. No digging? I, well, look, like, now we're getting in like, okay, so it was just not an option. There was, so I, my cell was on a second story. I was surrounded by bars. It was highly, I was constantly supervised. like there just wasn't an option.

I'm kidding. Yeah, no, but like. Thank you. We've seen so many prison movies. Yeah. And it's like the cliches. The cliche of like somehow getting out. Well, all of them.

It's just funny. I mean, it's not funny. It's a, it's a, it's an ongoing scandal to me that they just in this country. consign themselves to prisons are going to be these jungles? Like, does it really have to be that way? And there is an answer from other parts of the world. They do dip prison differently. Now, other parts of the world aren't a bunch of fucking drugged out nuts like this country, okay?

This country is different for better and worse. Most of the people I was in prison with were drugged out nuts. Yeah, this country is a lot of energy and a lot of it is directed in the wrong direction. okay, that's who we are. So I get it. It's hard to put in prison Americans or whoever is here in America doing dirty shit. But the fact that it's just a place that makes somebody who went in who maybe isn't a hardened criminal, oh, they're going to come out a hardened criminal because it's just this hobbsian tooth and nail.

survival of the fittest. Yeah, and everyone's in on it. It's like, really, no one can figure this out, all the things we can figure out. We can't stop rape in prison, you know. There's no possible way we could think that this doesn't have to be this kind of night. And I guess it comes down to the humans. You're always going to have the humans who are in the prison,

and they are put together with a lot of people who are the dregs of society. So those dregs are going to make the guards feel anxious and scared and wanting revenge. And jaded. And then it's just this terrible cycle of, I hate you and you hate me. And this is who we... Oh, yeah. It's the fucking worst of the worst of... It's the worst impulses of society all there, right there. And I agree.

I mean, what's so interesting about, like, just prison... I mean, I know you like history, right? like prison was initially intended to be a more humanistic and and understanding approach to punishment because it used to be corporeal it used to be execution like that was the only way we punished people crucifixion exile like all of the things that were basically the equivalent of maiming and death that was the only way we punished people for wrongdoing and then they introduced this idea of prison where like you could you could serve you could serve you could serve you could serve time as penitence. And in the process, you could be indoctrinated by those who are concerned about your soul to become better and rehabilitated. Like, that's the whole idea of prison is if you give someone just enough time away from society, they're not a danger to others, then we might be able to turn you into somebody who could potentially come out and be a part of society. But then somewhere along the way it like reverted back into this idea of like okay well it's it's a little bit like

the corporeal punishment like we just need to hurt you and we're not going to hurt you by cutting off your hand or hanging you anymore we're just going to hurt you by stealing your life from you and and that is fucking painful but we're not going to give you anything to like process that or cope with that or or establish your like and and to be fair like I'm not like a fucking bleeding heart about this like I know that some people are so broken like I've met them I've fucking lived with them people who are so broken that I would not trust them in a free society where we get to just like go about our business and be around other people without you know without safeguards right yeah no but that all makes sense

But like, I do have this, like, I do have, like, a deep aversion to the punitive instinct of it. Like, I do think it is really important to take people out of society who have proven to be untrustworthy. Like, to be, to have proven to be people who are likely to inflict harm on others to, like, not have self-control, to not play by the rules that we all agree to. I'm 100% on board with that. I do think, though, that, like, people have this, like, romantic notion about what prison is and what it does and what impact it has on people and the kind of people. Do you think they're a romantic notion of it? Yeah. Oh, 100%.

Of prison? Yes, people have this, like, this fantasy idea that, like, only bad people go there and all the good people stay outside and that it fixes you. Or if it doesn't fix you, at least you deserve. to suffer for what, like, all of that is just like, it's so over-simple- But I do think you're right. They are able to shut off their mind to it by saying, well, that's where bad people are who did bad things, so they got what's common to them, which is true in a X percent of the people there.

It is not 100 percent. But we are humans. So that's, you know, every solution to every problem is this is the least, you know, bad option, but we should have told you this. It's a surprise. We wanted this to be a reunion show. Here are some of the guards that you had. Hey, we're going to remember, remember Julio. And some of the girls, bring him out here, the girls you're in prison with, let's just. Amory, vien, no, I was okay in prison, dude. I was okay. But look, do you, are you one of those people, you know, like, I would say spiritual, maybe they would use that word, where they think

everything happens for a reason and everything led you to another place for a reason or, you know, that kind of thinking? Well, I'm actually one of the rare, wrongly convicted, exonerated people who is not of that ilk. In fact, a lot of people that I met in prison, guilty and innocent like, really do feel like there must be some sort of bigger, higher power that's more in charge of them. And you can understand why people go there. Oh, 100%. You're absolutely helpless.

And you've got to hope that somebody's in charge or else you're fucked. Life's a rough ride. And, you know, it can get so rough you have to hang on. I think you just have to believe that it's for a reason or for something better future that you can't exactly put your finger on. You can make a reason. I believe that. I think that the universe doesn't have. any inherent meaning whatsoever, but you can make a reason, you can make it make sense to you,

and you can have the things that happen to you become propulsive in your own life. And so I have attempted to do that. I think there's wisdom in that, but am I assuming that somebody else is in charge or somebody has a plan? Fuck, no. If anything, I've learned that's like extremely unlikely. Honestly, I see why my friends like you because I feel the exact same way, you know. And it's not really a popular opinion. No, it's not. It's surprisingly unpopular. People don't like you for just having it.

I'm not even trying to make you go there. I'm just, well, it's a threat. Like, it's a, funnily enough, like, it's, like, the very idea that there's like no rhyme or reason to the universe is threatening. It is like the deeply existing. Right. Right. Problem that goes, I think, beyond even mortality. Did they tell you what my drink is?

No, I try to... It's a last word. I like to have the last word. What does that mean? It's a prohibition drink. Do you want some? What is it? It's green chartreuse and gin and...

Oh, no. No. Not a gin man. No, my father was. Yeah? Was he mean to you? No, no, no. No, no.

No, he needed it to... to de-stress and just being Irish. Oh, okay, fair, yeah. I mean, I say that like they're the only people who drink, Jen, yeah. But, I mean, as far as drinking goes and nationalities, I mean, they're in the top two and it ain't two. Right. You know? Maybe the Russians, they drink like crazy.

Never been to Russia. Been to Ireland, and, yeah, that tracks. What's your heritage? Mine. My mom was born in Germany. and my dad... Born in Germany. Yeah, mm-hmm.

And my dad is a mystery because he was adopted. So, some kind of... Boy, that just adds to the plot because the Germans and the Italians have a, you know... A different sensibility, yeah. Well, and a different history with each other. Yes, I don't think that they were looking at me as a German, though. They were looking at me as an American,

And American girls, unbeknownst to me, had a certain reputation. What do you think about, you know, Gen Z and how turned against the country they are? Here in the U.S.? Yeah, how much they, I think, many of them on the left, far left, which is usually what, you know, that age is. But part of it is just very anti-American, just really seeing only one side to who the country is. Of course, we shouldn't whitewash any crimes we committed, but they just don't have it in perspective. You don't see that? Well, I have kids that are under five.

So that's the... Well, don't ask them. So I don't get a lot of that in my own home, and I also, you know... Yeah, but I don't get any of it. I don't have any kids. Well, okay, here's your problem. Bill. You are more tuned in to current events and everything that's going on. And like, you have opinions. And that's your problem, Bill. You have opinions about current events. Problem to who.

Well, I'm just like, look, I don't, I haven't actually super followed what is happening with whatever generation is the most vocal right now. It's so interesting now. I mean, even if it wasn't like it is important politically and for the country and blah, blah, blah. I just find age fascinating, like the different ages and how you, I mean, what are you, how are 30? I'm, yeah, yes, do the thing that you're never supposed to do with women. 18? Thanks for giving me alcohol then, Bill.

That isn't illegal. 18 is legal. Well, for you to give me alcohol, to ply me with alcohol in your private, dank. Rat Sculler? I don't know. Is that the word you're looking for, rat skeller? Because it's the word that applies. In fact, there's a rat now.

I mean, I think when I think of people who are 20 now, the thing that I just think about is where they are emotionally. And maybe this is just the mom in me. I'm always like, where is everybody at emotionally? Like, I think that a lot of people project whatever they, project their emotions onto their intellectual pursuits. Absolutely. I couldn't agree more.

It's all that. So much of it is, I know you think that this is a super important issue, but really it's about you. The issue is there for you. You're not there for the issue. You're not really doing anything for the issue. A lot of people don't understand the issue. They're swept up in the issue because we are.

social creatures because we do have deep empathy, because we want to feel like what we do matters. And ultimately, we all have like something deep down inside of us that is unresolved. And I feel like we project that, again, that deep, that deep feeling into whatever is socially accessible. And that's what's accessible to them. So I'm looking at that from an emotional place, I think. But again, that's because I'm a mom and I'm like trying to raise my kids. Are you a choosy mom? This back to school season, spend less on your kids with Amazon. Hi, I'm Laura Clary, mom, overthinker, and someone who has a complicated relationship with

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haven't spent on them. Car shopping this Civic Holiday weekend, most car dealerships are closed and all you'll find are crickets. Not Performance Auto Group, they're open this Saturday and Holiday Monday for their annual Civic Holiday Sales Events. Celebrate this long weekend with rates from 0%. They might be closed. Performance Auto Group is open to serve you. Join Performance Auto Group this Saturday or Civic Holiday Monday 9 to 5 for the best time to shop this summer. My choosy mom?

What does that mean? I mean, juicy moms choose Jif. You never heard that? Well, I've heard of gentle moms. I've heard of Tiger Mom. No, this is a commercial. Oh, no, I don't know what that is. I'm 18, Bill.

I don't know any of your cultural references. Well, that's a key one. Trust me, everything that we ever broadcast goes out into space. When the aliens see that, they'll really understand us. They'll know we're really good people. Okay, good. Chewsy moms, juice, Jiv. I mean, they just, they care what peanut butter, which is a horrible fungus-laden

slop to their children. Right. And then they, you think, people think that's, I'm probably going to get sued by the peanut butter industry, but I don't think peanuts are healthy. I just let my kids eat off the floor. So, like, my kids are a little feral, and I think that that's a good thing. Like, I think being a little exposed. That's always the word I am.

use about children, but I mean it in a bad way. I've heard that you're not a fan. I saw the trampoline in the backyard and I was like, oh, how sweet. He was like, no, that's for me. That's for me. Of course. Kids? What? Why do you hate kids? I'm actually so curious. Why not? I mean, I know that Anthony Jelznik has great jokes about, do you have great jokes about it? Yeah. Yeah, okay, give me one of your, like, I hate children jokes. Well, they're in my specials. You can look them up. I don't do my act here at club random. But it's just my personality, like your personality, is to like them. I like furry creatures.

I like animals. You like furries? That's your thing? Furries, not exactly furries. But, like, yeah, I like a dog. I think that was a cultural reference. Oh, I know that one. Okay.

Wasn't sure. I don't know. Just because I ain't laughing. No, I get it. I hear, I hear you. Okay. You love an animal. I love animals and some people love kids and some people get great joy out of, you know, the kid learning something for the first time. The sky is blue.

Totally. And I'm so over that. Yeah. You're like, figure it out. Well, I mean, like, I'm interested in going forward intellectually. I feel like with the kid. And yes, there is something to be said for, you know, seeing the world through much more innocent eyes. Are you interested in the human mind and how it works? Very, sure. There's nothing more fucking interesting than watching a human mind develop from mush. Yeah, I get that.

I'm sure that's a... Yeah, well, I'm interested in that particular aspect of it, especially when it comes with snot and drooling and shit and just, you know... You are going to go back to snot and drooling and shit not too long. Oh, no. Oh, wow. No, I mean, we went there. Well, I mean, we're all mortal.

Our bodies are our bodies. Do you not have your own snot and drool and shit today? No, I'm not at that level of senescence. Have you ever, have you ever wiped someone's ass? No. No one's ass, but your own. No, yeah, my own, definitely my own. Exclusively, I would say, since, too.

I wonder what that has done to you. I think it's an important thing to wipe someone else's ass, to like really, like, it is a, it's a deeply intimate thing to do for another person. I couldn't agree more. It still doesn't make me want to do it. Are you diverse to gross things? Yes. Okay. I get that.

Especially shit. Yeah. Who like shit? Well, yeah, I mean, shit is not as. Instinctually, we are averse. There are a lot of people in this world for whom shit is less offensive to them than it is to me.

This is going really well. You're so happy you invited me. Well, I mean, we could talk about anything. Yeah. I mean, I feel like I get where you're coming from. It wasn't like I don't know about this stuff. I'm just trying to, like, analyze, like, where the line is of what counts as gross versus not gross.

I mean, it's a case-by-case, isn't it for everybody? doesn't some things give you the yick and some don't yeah no that's fair why i'm not gonna i'm not gonna yuck your yum or yum your yuck so okay whatever that is but have you not heard that yuck you're yum i gotta get my context i may have heard it my kids say it all the time the little ones i mean i thought we were passed it into the like let's analyze why you are fucking i'm not fucked up about this or and you're not fucked up about liking kids it's just like different opinions. That's true. You know, it's like saying, hey, you're a stupid ass, you're a Muslim, you think that's God. I'm a Catholic. I know who's God. You got your God, I got mine,

and I got none. And I think you've got none, right? I have none. You're an, you're an atheist. Is all that little group is, well, we know Sam is, Whitney, I don't know what she is. Sometimes people are. I just don't ask. It hasn't really come up. This you go into in this kind of death, but you don't ask if they believe in God? I guess poop is real and God isn't, so I'm not really curious about God. Like, I'm curious about poop. God may not be real, but how

humans act because they think he is is very relevant. That is very real. Yes, but that is the human mind that I'm interested in. Yeah, but I mean, what has been as controlling in history, really, when you think about it, then that. But again, like, for me,

that's just an intellectual projection of an emotional something emotional at its core. So what is the emotion fear that is driving that impulse to make sense of the universe in this way or another and to control other people through this means or another? And I think that... Yeah. Control is a big...

Yeah. I'm concerned about the control part. And I think... Did you see Taylor Tomlinson's new special prodigal daughter? Uh-uh. She... It's really... I'm actually curious to see what you would think, because she talks about religion and her upbringing and religion and her relationship to it today and how she, like, has respect for people who are religious, as long as it's not, like, being weaponized against other people.

Like, however you decide to make sense of the universe is up to you, as long as it doesn't, like, cause you to harm anybody. And, like, I thought that that was very sweet. Like, I thought that was a very important sentiment. And I think it's, I think I agree with her in the sense that like I'm also very close friends with deeply, deeply religious people and they do not hurt other people based upon their beliefs. And so that's great. On the other hand, faith in something that is not real is like a condition of the mind that like conditions you to think a certain way and to have a certain kind of magical thinking. And then if you go down that rabbit hole, it's like, well, how many things do I have? faith in that I don't fully comprehend.

And then so, you know, I don't know if there's a way to win that. Do you have any thoughts about magical thinking? Oh, over the years, I put out a few. Okay. I haven't watched all your specials, Bill. I'm 18. I made a movie called Religious. Religious?

Yeah. I haven't seen that. Yeah. When did it come out? 2008. I was in prison. Yeah. It still plays.

a lot. I just feel like I missed like a thing. Yeah, that's fine. But, I mean, I do have, you know, just think, I would think mainstream atheist thing, which is, we're not trying to convert anybody,

just leave me alone. I just don't want to participate in this, and so don't worry about me. But would you be stoked if an atheist were president? I think it would be possibly different, possibly we've already had one because we don't know. Well, she put an out, Amy.

I don't feel like Obama was, when he, like, put on the, I get, I get scriptures on my phone. You know, I don't feel his heart wasn't in it. He seems like the kind of guy very cerebral who, I mean, probably, I think, is an atheist or, you know. A closet atheist. Well, they have these words like secular humanist that will like code, like, okay, people, I don't. I don't believe in the fucking talking snake, okay? I don't. And you call it what you want.

But it's hard because so many people are people of faith, as we were saying. It's a threatening thing when you're not part of it. You're kind of like Serpico with God, because like Serpico, he just didn't want to take the money. You know, he was like, I see the cops, you're dirty, I just don't want to. And it was such like they could not let a guy not take the money because then you're just, then you're implicating everyone else yeah well just morally you are right not even saying anything they just know oh there's one guy who actually does know right and wrong and who needs a guy like that hanging around making us feel bad about ourselves yeah yeah yeah exactly so get on board yeah but

um where so where you live you live in seattle yeah i live outside of seattle uh well i grew up there. My entire family's there, so it was my husband's, but also it's one of the best places in the world. I live on a tiny little island called Vashon. That's you have to get there by a ferry, so I get the benefit of living in a kind of small town vibes, but next to a vibrant, you know, city landscape that has arts and culture. And one of the things I love about Vashon is I get to have a lot of intergenerational friendships. Like, I'm not just friends with just people my age. I have best friends who are in their 70s. And one really cool thing about the island

is there are a lot of musicians and artists who live there and they're very supportive. So it's like, it's a great thought. I always thought Seattle was cool. Of all the places, all the cities, all the cities and all the gen joints, and all the world, that was always one of my favorite stuff. Seattle was close.

You know, you could just hop on the plane, be there in two and a half hour. and it was like, it's a big city. It's a big city. People don't realize Seattle, you know, it's like, wow, is this New York? Not quite, but like a lot of... It's not New York, but like the, like big tall buildings for like, you know, for, it looks like a big city. Yes.

And there's some big, there's big companies that are all up in our business there, so... I don't know if I could stand the weather all year around. I can't stand the weather here all year round. Oh, yeah? I feel like a naked mole rat like, God, the sun. Really? Yeah, yeah. Too much for me.

I mean, Woody Allen was sat there and said the exact same thing. I like it when it's gray. And I'm like, but that, you know, that isn't, like, scientifically healthy. We are solar creatures. We do need sun. But don't we need seasons? We have them. Do you?

Yeah. I've lived here for 40 years. I think I would know. Okay, I guess when I come down here, it always feels. exactly the same, just with like more or less smog? No. We have clean air in Seattle. Cleaner.

Clean air in Seattle, dude. It's a big city. I'm sure there's some air pollution. I mean, we have rain and that cleans the air. Yeah, no, it's, I'm no, not arguing you have cleaner air. We've... We will fight them. We've cleaned up our air pretty good here.

But compared to what it used to be, I remember when I first came out here, the joke was ring around the city because you could see this brown ring. I mean, yeah, it was gross. When you flew in, it was scary. Your skin looks great for being in all of the sun and smoke. Thank you. By the way, you can't avoid the sun. Okay.

You can stay inside. You can actually, in the modern world, like, decide exactly how much sun you get. unless you are picking crops or, you know, have to be, you know, I always say this movie stars, the guys, they, like, tend to, like, look their age at a certain point because when you're a movie star, you're out in the sun a lot. Movies start early. They need the light, you know, and if it's a Western or anything that's, you're just out there a long time. And, you know, whereas I was stupid when I was young with son sometimes, because I wanted to be, I was an Irish kid who wanted to look Italian. Oh, oops. And it was never going to happen.

No. And what it was so stupid is that nobody wanted it to happen. It doesn't, you look good as what you are. As you are, and plenty of people like that look. It was just the kind of thing where you go, oh, my God, if I only could have replaced. that stupid thing that was in there with what I know now. Do you have compassion for your younger self, though? Oh, come.

I mean, that's an interesting way to phrase it. Compassion for your own self. I'm hard on myself always. Have you ever talked to Sam about meta meditation or anything like that? I know. Everything I tell you doesn't mean it a doctor or do you think my shit. I'm a mom. I know, but it's ridiculous.

I don't want to. I don't need to fix this. It's probably made me what I am today. I'm very happy. Okay, great. You know, so like, do I beat myself up about that? Good. People should beat themselves up more about what they do when it's a fuck up.

It makes you better. Yeah. I do think people should feel the feelings of feeling bad when something has consequences. If I was obsessing about it, then I wouldn't be a happy person, and that's not the case. But some of that, I'd rather err on the same. side of, you know, a friend of mine once said, I like to never make the same mistake once. That's sweet. And that's hard to do.

If only. And already, I already missed out on that. Yeah. And some things, you know, you don't even get it the second time. The third. Eventually, you're like, okay. Can I ask what your biggest mistake was? Because I feel like everybody knows my mistakes, but I don't know yours.

Oh. Wow, now we're on like Barbara Walters. That's a really good question, but you know what? I probably, did I ever think of that? It clearly doesn't haunt you. No. I mean, everything sort of came out pretty good. It would just be in general, just the thing, like I just said, like, I don't know,

it's just a small thousand cuts thing of all this stupid fucking things. that I did. I mean, that you meant, we talked about the skin one, but just in general, I realized at some point that I saw this picture of me at 28, and somebody was like, oh, my God, you were such a smoke show, you know. And I'm like, yeah, you're right. And I know at the time, whenever I couldn't get with a girl,

I was like, I'm too ugly. Because I had this awesome personality. and it was much more the opposite, I'm sure. I probably came on too strong or something or tried to be funny, but I shouldn't. So I was plenty good-looking. Yeah. But if I got rejected, it was probably because, boy, that guy, you know.

Or a matter of taste, like some people just, yeah. Yeah, or just a matter of taste. Like she has an opinion, yeah. It's like, that's what I regret in life. Just like, why couldn't I have been less stupid later? Yeah, like youth has wasted on the young kind of vibe. That kind of vibes, yes. Yeah, I feel that.

Well, good thing we have vitamin supplements to try to make us young again. No, like, well, there are stories of, like, women who are post-menopausal who got their periods back. And this was good news. Well, I mean, it's a sign of the reversal of metapause, so I don't know. My opinion on all of that kind of stuff, because there's a lot of stuff out there now, peptides and like stuff that's like um i forget the names but they're letters and numbers and it's people are taking it they're getting it they're not fda approved but you can get them and um they do have results for like athletes trying to repair tissue totally stuff like uh but i err on the side

of they don't have a lot of testing on it yet it's been and anything that is fucking with how your body naturally functions, it could also exacerbate something on the bad side. In other words, you take the growth hormone. It could also grow cancer cells. Yes, that is, people have acknowledged that if you have cancer in your, like, your DNA, then you should not take it. That, to me, tips the scale about, like, trying to stay on the natural. Because we don't fuck with cancer. I mean, it fucks with us. Yeah. And it's going to enough as it is. Yeah. But, But invite it, no. It's kind of like lock all your doors and windows at night and put the alarm on.

Just don't make it easy for the burglar. They could get in, but just don't make it easy. You know, but I don't know. What did you say? I'm just not. I was dying a few minutes ago. I know. Well, I joke.

Whatever I was. So hopefully I have a few more days before that happens. But as of now, that's my thing. It's just don't, until they know better, and I'm very skeptical about whatever they know. I mean, not that I'm anti-vax or anything, but I am definitely don't sit there in the white coats and say, well, just do what we say, because when we ever been wrong, you've been wrong a lot. Yeah. And that's okay.

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In Theaters Thursday You know Bezos just had a rocket explode and Okay Nobody was on it. You're not going to learn how to get to Mars without some rockets exploding. And yes, people will die. And that's what mankind does.

The marches forward as prudently as possible. But, you know, unless AI, which I think will be killing us all very soon. Are you skeptical of the, you're on the pessimistic side of the singularity? I think there'll be great good way to put it. Yeah, I think so in general. I don't know. Why? Well, because so many smart people like the godfather of AI, Jeffrey Hinton, said it had a 10 to 20% extinction possibility, extinction event.

Musk was talking about that 15 years ago. Can you run me through what the extinction process would be? Because I understand people worried about it rendering us irrelevant. But why extinction? In tests, the AI goes to the nuclear war option way more than humans have, which, of course, since 1945, humans have never. So it... What does the AI... How does it benefit the AI to exterminate us?

I'm actually really curious about this. Yeah. I don't know if it... Look, I can't answer some of these questions on a technical basis, but basically you can program... I mean, they're programmed in some way. and they already hallucinate. Right, right, right, right. We know that.

So that's too dangerous. And also, they've done, run tests, and, you know, they could think you should be imprisoned for misgendering. Sure. You know, they just, they're not. So it's perverse instantiation, is what you're saying. If we had created this thing that was like Mr. Spock, always logical and always right, we didn't. We created a version of ourselves. And by the way, an ass-kissing, snotty version.

I know it is really. And I don't trust it. I don't like it. And it's constantly evolving. It's evolving faster than we are. So there's that. It's besides taking lots of jobs, which will leave us, I don't know what will we do with ourselves when the robots do everything. Are you worried about like without, like, are you worried that if we.

separate human value from human productivity, we're going to find ourselves in, like, deep existential crisis? I think we're there already. Yeah? Well, I wonder, so we're there already because we still, like, culturally haven't decoupled human value from human productivity. But if there was, like, a cultural acceptance that, like, your value as a human being was not based upon how much money or how much you could produce.

Like, I think, I'm wondering what, would that be a utopia? Or would that, or do you think, like, human beings like, that idea is alive in the present, not in everyone, and not in everyone to the same degree. Some to no degree, very selfish people, some to a great degree. People sacrifice themselves and their best interests for others all the time. Sure. So it's not like that is totally absent in the human condition. But, you know, whenever I think we're going to get to utopia where everybody,

no, we're a self-er species. It's kind of necessary almost to propel forward. People have to, you know, that's why communism is a dismal failure and why capitalism works with all its flaws. It's so much more effective. The jury is in. It's not even close. How many more people live better lives,

not to mention having to live under a... You always have to have a dictatorship, really is what a communist country is because people don't want to live that way. So you have to have a fucking Gestapo to keep them in line so they don't revolt or crawl over the Berlin Wall or try to get out, you know?

Well, so here's just to like prod this because I'm curious about this. So like, you're not a Star Trek fan, right? I love the original. Okay. The one with the short skirts. The one with my friend William Shatner. Right.

I heard that you're friends with him. So, which is super dope. I'm a huge Star Trek fan. And I'm, I wondered, like, when we take away, like, the human need to be productive, what might arise as an expression of our motivation? Could it be exploration? Could it be creativity? Could it be just the simple presence of being,

which is completely overlooked by a society that is constantly driven to produce? Like, I think that, like, production... But how do we eat? But what about eating? Well, but if... Like how do we produce because we want to eat, we...

Well, sure, but if in this, like, hypothetical situation where human beings are rendered irrelevant, they're irrelevant, not just... They're not because, like, we don't need to eat, anymore, but because something else is now taking care of our basic needs. So in that kind of world where we don't need to do the work to get the food, what do we do with our capacity to work? I don't know. I mean, you're leaping right to we get past this thing where what the robots grow the food because they're so brilliant that they can do it without any help and then they just give us

the food and we don't need jobs because the robots. I did make a business. I did make a bit of big leap there. Yes, that's true. The transition phase is very awkward. I grant that. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I don't know. This is one of my problems with AI also. There's no plan. It's just let's hurdle forward. Just Sam Altman take the wheel. Wherever we're going, we're going. And it's moving so fast. But it's not going to stop moving fast. Hopefully there will be some guardrails. But as long as we're in a war with China, I think both governments recognize at this point that it is possibly in both of our best interest to get this a little bit under control. I mean, they just because of the like the perverse instantiation, mutual annihilation.

The one that they just clawed, just released a program that they announced, they had to say it publicly. they don't think it's safe enough for people to have. They released it just to like 20 or 30 companies. I mean, it's anti-hacking software, but of course, anything that could be turned on its head to do the other. Apparently, they thought it was that dangerous just to have this out. So, yeah. Okay.

I mean, I'm really curious about how this might play out because I think that the unfortunate fact is it's going to play out. Something is going to play out, and you're worried that it's going to be, because human beings are constantly vying for this false sense of control over this thing, that we're going to annihilate each other in order to try to have a false sense of control over this thing. But do you think that AI might ever bypass humans altogether and just take control and take us out of the... control out of the equation. Of course, that's the worry.

But like, that's what we're worried about. That's what we're worried about. Yeah, to not exist, I feel would be to my detriment, yes. Okay. I don't want to, yeah, I don't want to be cut out of the equation. I mean, right now. Do you trust humans? I trust them more than the robots, yes.

Okay. I'm going to stick with my kind. I'm going to dance with who I brought them. Okay. You know? Like the ones you know. This is an open-air question for you, though? Me?

Yeah. A little bit? Yeah. Yeah, like I don't, well, I don't trust anybody. So I don't trust humans. I don't trust robots. I mean, trust. Like, I mean, I guess maybe one of the things that human beings has to our advantage is we do have some deep, like, some deep instinctual, like, things that, that bind us to each other.

Like, we have deeply common goals, like surviving, like, you know, have. having kinship relationships. These are all things that are ultimately like universal to human beings unless you're a psychopath. And like maybe, maybe the reason why you don't trust the robots is because it's like on a psychological level,

a psychopath. It doesn't have any reason to have any emotion and doesn't have any inclination towards kinship, which is ultimately the thing that is preventing us all from murdering each other. Yeah. Okay. Got it.

Got it. That's the, that's it. Yeah, and I think it probably is too late. Yeah, we're fucked, dude. Maybe, but I don't know. I mean, the kids are booing the commencement speakers when they mention AI. So the younger generation is on to the idea that this is not. I mean, the younger generation, I think, is onto the idea.

of their own irrelevancy. Well, that this is going to make them, you know. Yeah. But I would tell them, you know, unlike other causes that different generations had, like ending the Vietnam War or civil rights or climate change, those all involved having to convince the older generations who were in charge, you know, to do something different. Get out of Vietnam.

I think this generation is the AI generation. You know, I think it's in their power. If they were, they're booing at the commitment, well, you know. They're like, they're anti-AI? Yeah. Yeah. They see it. I think they got, there are kids who realize that they got burned by the phone,

by social media, by growing up on screens. We certainly have. Yeah, that was a huge mistake. Certainly have seen enough evidence and, you know, big best-selling books like the one by Jonathan Haidt. Oh, I love him. He was so great. Like, the righteous mind was, like, so influential for me. Yeah, and this, I mean, very influential about getting places now, schools, and so forth around the world. Taking the phone away from the kid, you know, at least for school hours. Yeah.

But it's still a crazy fucking world we live in where the parents are absolutely obsessive. The kid doesn't even walk home alone because, God forbid, he's out without parental supervision for 10 seconds. And then go to your room where he has a phone. Yeah. And there's a portal to like every fucked up thing in the world. Yeah. But you're going to lock him in that room with the phone. I mean, it's just deliciously, if it wasn't so sad.

and has so many really bad repercussions. So I think that generation, they realize now they got burned on the phone, and now it's like, oh, and now AI. But are they rebelling against the phone? There definitely is a part of a youth movement that is rebelling against everything that isn't like it was in the 90s. People just are like all about the 90s. It's so funny.

I hope so. I mean, even the iPod, which I have long been a champion of, while many people made fun of me, and still use the iPod, even that is making. You still use the iPod? Absolutely. And so do a lot of kids. It's making a comeback. And I don't bore you with. I have a phone at home.

So the way that my daughter, who's for her, uses a phone, it's like a cord phone that she can, like, press a button and call grandma. Like, that's how she can use the phone. And it's a physical object that's over there. It doesn't have access to the internet. And it, like, gives her a sense of autonomy and ability to, like, access the world, but the world that is relevant to her. Grandma, her, you know, her cousin, that kind of thing. So I do believe you're right that, like, going back to an analog world where everything isn't immediately accessible and therefore becomes something that we become addicted to. that's something I'm really concerned about.

So when the kid presses a button, it always goes, isn't grandma getting like a million fucking calls every day? I mean, it's actually funny how bored she gets with it. Like the idea of talking to someone for her, I mean, she's only four, and like they're not really real unless they're there. Maybe grandma could step up her game

and come up with some more interesting dialogue for crying out. Fair, fair. If she's putting the kid to sleep, we're like, the kids, she's four and she's dodging grandma. I'm not in. Tell her I'm playing. No, honestly, I think it's just because for her at four, like people who aren't physically in the room with her aren't really real. And like she, you know, she's hearing their voice, but it's just not the same. And I think that's so interesting.

It's like when does that level of difference start to happen where people who are not in the room with us are more real than the people who are in the. the room with us. Like, when does that shift happen? Well, it's happening, and this is what is so frightening is the amount of change that a human mind, we still have the human mind can take, is somewhat limited. It goes exponentially faster all the time. You know, if you lived from, like, you know, a thousand to nine, 1900, it kind of looked the same. Yeah, yeah. And all the people were the same. And then, I mean, just in my own lifetime, I've seen answering machines after there were none of those. And, you know, internet when no, no one had that and had that. And obviously cell phones, smartphones, email. I mean.

Have you seen the Britannic sketch? about AI and VR and porn. Have you seen that? No. Do you know who Pridantic is? Oh, they're like a sketch comedy duo that I love. But they have a sketch about how like the AI and the VR just like we're fucked. Like as soon as those combined, like everyone is just masturbating themselves to death.

Yeah, it is a masturbation economy. When you think about how many ways they're wrong. are for, you know, young women to basically make a living, only fans, and so forth, by making men masturbate. Oldest profession, Bill. It's the oldest profession. That's prostitution. This is not exactly proper.

I mean, it's akin? It's akin. Yeah. It's akin. It's sex for money. Of course, the definition of prostitution, if, you know, like in the dictionary, wouldn't just say about sex first. It broadly means anything you do that you hate doing, but you're doing it just for money.

You can prostitute yourself in business, you can prostitute yourself in politics. You know, we all prostitute ourselves to a degree because, I mean, I certainly have done things I hated to do because I needed money. Yeah, yeah. Again, that whole eating thing. Yeah, yeah. Well. And what's your stance on set? Sex work.

I'm not going to become one. Okay. Fair enough. It wasn't my plan either. No, I'm a libertarian on all those kind of like basic fun things in life, pot, sex. I mean, Amsterdam has that red light district. It seems like a more, I mean, like. It's fucking nuanced, though, right?

In a town that is just full of hose, am I really, is anyone really going to stick up anymore for, like, a prostitution is just the worst thing in the world? You'd be surprised. I mean, it's just, who are all these people on, you know, the dating sites or the pretty girl? I've never been on a dating site in my life, so this is not coming from firsthand knowledge, but what people who I know are on, say, it's like, it's like, what is your job? job. Like, it's just a lot of model. Everybody's a model. On dating websites? This is what I'm told. Like, certainly like these, you know, upscale,

like this is what it, you know, and I just think, I mean, I think there's much more of an LA thing. Okay. But really, like, a lot of people here just don't work, you know. This is the kind of place where, you know, pretty girls, you know, they could get into clubs, people buy them dinner. It's like, so like your word kin to prostitution, anytime you're doing something that's like less than completely sincere. Yeah, sure. You know, I mean, marriages contain elements of prostitution.

Oh, hell yeah, they do. Really? I need the sink fixed, so let's... Yeah. Let's go there, babe. Really? That's what marriage is like. I always figured it was. I always thought it was a lot of horse trading of sex for sink fixing or whatever. I mean, it's a love language, Bill. It is. It's a love language. How do you communicate love?

Right. I agree. And some people communicate love by fixing the sink. Yeah, I'd leave the sink out of it. But again, we don't agree on these things. We're very opposite. Are we? Oh, you haven't noticed that? By now? No. Oh, wow.

You like the kids and I don't and... That doesn't mean we're opposite. I think we're opposite. Really? Yes. Tell me how we're opposites. I mean, we're just not, we just don't think alike. We think, like some big issues we do like atheism, I think.

Well, are you saying, so think alike means we have similar opinions, but think about things? I mean, I think everybody thinks about things. but do they think about things in the same way? Like, how do you approach the thought that, like, how do you approach your ultimate opinion? Like, the higher level of how your brain works need not be, like, I don't think we think differently. We have different opinions.

That doesn't mean, like... That's thinking differently. Having different opinions is thinking differently? Of course. Otherwise, we would have the same opinion. Then we would be thinking alike. That's the very definition of thinking differently. We have different opinion.

So here's where you're wrong, Bill. I see. So the way you think is like the way. It's the process. It's the journey. But ultimately, the ultimate conclusion that you come to is based on feelings. So you are processing feelings. You always come back to that.

It is. And I have not argued once because I understand also, even though I'm a man that, yes, feelings matter and feelings rule. Feelings are the basis of all of our thoughts. They rule our thoughts. Sometimes for good, sometimes for not, often for not. Because, again, they're feelings. When people say, I go my gut, it's like, well, good for you.

I go by my brain. But your brain is informed by your gut. It truly is. and you have to learn to moderate that, I think. Yes. You know, and I don't know. But even the impulse to moderate it is ultimately a feeling that you sort of train yourself into. Yeah.

You learn to, like, mistrust your gut, and that becomes a new feeling that informs your intellectual process. Yeah, it's like when people say, my heart, well, obviously, we know the heart is not a cognitive organ. They really, it's still, but it's not romantic to say, honey, I love you with all my brain. You know. I actually would love if someone said that to me. I bet you you would. I bet you you would. Yeah.

Have you ever said that to anyone? What? I love you with all my brain? No, I just said it. No, it is funny, though. I will say it in the future. Who do you love like that? Oh, somebody.

Somebody? You do. Yes. Is it one person or more than one person? Just one? Well, there's also... You're like monogamous in your brain love? That'd be a good name for a rock album.

We should start it. Or even the band. Yeah, monogamous for your brain love. And what would they call them for short? Nog. You're going to see Nog tonight? So you're doing stand-up now, right? I am, yeah.

Oh, wow. How are you enjoying that? I'm loving it. Where you go up? You go up on the comedy store and stuff? Actually, that's where... I'm so fucking annoying. So the first time I ever did stand up

was as the surprise guest for Whitney Cummings at her roast at the comedy store. So I don't have the typical trajectory of most comedians where they put in their time in all of the comedy clubs. I put in my time elsewhere. But it gave me a sense of humor. Sure.

And I get a lot of satisfaction of being able to work through all of the absurd insanity that I've lived through and also not necessarily relevant to prison and all of that. Like I have hella prison jokes, but I also have hell of mom jokes. Just like life jokes. I really appreciate it. So you do jokes about the prison.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It deserves to be ridiculed. I agree. Yeah. You were unfairly railroaded, I think. It's my estimation, and I wouldn't say it if I didn't mean it. Yeah, thanks.

It is true. I always think anything that when you weren't there, don't ever tell me anybody knows anything 100%. But I just know what I instinctively feel and know from facts. I mean, I've had Army Hammer here. I love rehabilitating people. You don't need it. You're past it, and I'm glad you are.

You should be rehabilitated. You shouldn't have gone through that. And, you know, everybody has trials. But, boy, yours was a literal. Literal. A dous. I don't think, I mean, I know if you ever saw the Oliver Stone movie, or maybe he just wrote it. What happens in it?

He, this kid, Billy Hayes, I think, was his name. I think it was a true story. He and his girlfriend went to Turkey. This is like the late 70s, and he thinks, oh, I can, like, set us up really well in life. If I take back a whole bunch of hash, you know, you could get in Turkey for probably, you know, you could sell it for a thousand times. So he straps like a whole bunch of hash to, and he's about to get on the plane. I mean, the tension, it's a great, if you want a tense movie, maybe it's not good for you. And, you know, he's about.

Little too real, yeah. And then suddenly the lights go on the guards and, you know, on the ground. And then he's in Turkish prison for like seven years until he had to get out. Only seven? Yeah. Were you more? No, no, no. I mean, I just in the sense that he strapped like all of that hash.

I didn't do that. Well, he escaped. Oh, he escaped from. He had to escape. At least in the movie. Okay. Yes. How?

Well, it's for the alert, but it's from 1979, so fuck you. He, something, something, I know that the guard and guards. He bribed a guard or something? No, he got him in the, the guard used to take him into, like, a room to, like, beat him. You know, this is a Turkish prison. My version was sexual harassment, but continue. Oh, well, I'm sorry. I mean, whatever, it's what it is.

Yeah, I'm sure. But, and he pushes the guard against the wall, and the guard, there's a hat rack and the bulb on the hot rack, like, kills it. And then he puts his, I think figures, this is my chance to get. So he puts on the guard's uniform. and walks out the front gate and finds his way across the boss verse, I guess, to Greece or something. And, you know, that's how the movie ends. I don't know how life ends.

Okay. Well, that's not akin to my experience. Stop that, bitch. Yeah, no, I do not claim to have the biggest sad story. Like, you know, fucking A man. And honestly, you're in Italy. I think you're going to get sexually harassing anyway. I'm just saying the Italian.

In, out. It's a just a more. It's a just a moral. Yeah, yeah. Come on. Yeah. We pinch of the ass. It just means that we like you.

Yeah. That's actually fair. It's not fair. I mean, have you ever been a 20-year-old girl in on the streets of Italy? I have. Yes. I have. You know.

I feel, you know, cheap as saying it. But my memories were all good. But I just, it was so great to be a hot young girl. in Italy. Wait. Have you ever been jealous of hot girls? Yeah. Really?

Well, jealous, no, but I think people would be realistic if they acknowledged, along with certain other privileges, that in this world, and again, probably more of an L.A. thing, but not just here. There is such a thing as pretty privilege. Oh, 100%. Oh, yeah. 100% there's pretty privilege.

everybody wants to just be close to and around pretty people. When pretty people like you, it's very validating. So then you do things to please them because it's to make them like you. That's totally true. I do think that there are different kinds of attention. Like I think one of the mistakes that especially young people make is they think that if they're getting attention, that that attention is all the same kind of attention and it's not. Oh, no.

But I'm, hmm, I will say that I've never, I've never once been jealous of men. Like, I've never, like, thought, oh, if only I was a man. Oh, I'm, right, I'm not jealous of women. I mean, they've had it rougher. I mean, to be, I was, if I still had the personality I have as a woman. You'd kill it. But women in the workplace. Very successful.

Sure. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. You know, and they do better in college now. It's the men who are like so, I mean, both are fucked up in their way. But men are very lost. Oh, I'm not saying that men are lost. And in fact, like, again, I think testosterone is a hell of a drug that I don't have to deal with.

Like, I feel for that. And when men get lost, they're dangerous. Yes, exactly. Way more than women are lost. They're not. They can be, but like, not like men. Not like men. I'm telling you.

We agree on that one. Okay. Lost men are dangerous because they're violent by nature. And, you know, when you're a meathead at 20, I mean, why do you think we put very young people in the military? We want people who are not going to ask a question. Or, you know, when you say to a soldier, run that way toward where the machine gun fire is. coming that if you want to have a successful army they kind of have to do it no yeah that doesn't happen at your age or mine it just doesn't and so you know you think about somebody who is that

shall we say supple of the mind and what can be put in there susceptible yeah to coercion and indoctrination i mean these the latest batch of like bat shit killings and crazy shit is just so beyond even a political side. They just believe everything's stupid that anybody puts on the internet. So you can't even say, oh, they're conservative, they're liberal. They're just crazy. They believe some shit out of all of them.

Right. Like it's almost like a weird niche thing on its own. It's not even political at that point. They just know that their life sucks. It really doesn't, but they grew up very... But they have feelings. entitled and they have feelings were indulged too much. So they think life should be perfect.

And what it doesn't, they're all in on just like taking people out at their school. And they know they're going to kill themselves. But they're... But it's for a higher purpose, which is making a statement, which is like standing their ground, which is... I feel they wouldn't do it if they weren't so convinced their life is so terrible. It's like, could you wait until it get started? Yeah, we're all miserable in high school. I didn't even expect it to be different.

I think that people feeling bad emotions is an important part of the human experience, right? Unavoidable. An unavoidable, but also an important part of the human experience because from those bad feelings, you derive meaning and perspective and purpose. And sometimes that can be channeled in a bad way, and sometimes it can be channeled a good way. In fact, that's one reason why people get indoctrinated towards religion in prison a lot of the time is because they are at that, like, really deep, dark place, and they are very susceptible to influence. And the people who have, like, unlimited influence in prisons are religious figures. Other people have to go, you know, turn themselves inside out to try to, like, get access, and religious people do not.

So, like, really, it's, like, a captive audience that is very susceptible to indoctrination. So that's why that happens. I'm wondering about the approach of just like the, well, get over yourself approach. Because I don't know because like, okay, so here's where I'm going. Who's saying get over yourself to her? I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm getting the kind of vibe from you that you're like, yeah, we all feel shitty. Get over it.

Is that right? No, because it's such a reductionist. I mean, if you want to, if we have to. speak in forward phrases yes okay but that's there's so much more to it than that but yes i do think kids think they have it way worse than they do and i think they have been raised wrong i do think they're too indulged i do think they they are too entitled a lot of the times a lot of times these kids you read about their life and you know are they're fucked up things in it yeah families are very often divorced, broken home.

But, you know, it's... I came from a divorced home. That's just the way life is now. Marriages don't stay together like they did when I was a kid. Yeah, and also, marriage is staying together doesn't necessarily mean that you're in a non-toxic environment. And it's a tough thing for a kid to go through. But kids are resilient.

And, I mean, I was so much less happy when I was a kid. I just... But do you think that's social media? It was so much more fear and misery. and I didn't expect it to end until I got to be an adult, and I certainly didn't blame society for it. I was like, well, I can't get laid, and I just masturbate all day long, and that sucks,

and so I'm going to take out the school. No, I wanted to learn how to ask a girl out. That would have solved all the problems. Sure. But my second response to not being able to it wasn't, and then get a gun. Well, so here's a question. Do you think that, like, a lot of the sort of anger and just rage and grief that people feel as a natural consequence of their brains changing and being fucking awkward in puberty, like all of that, like everything is fucking chaos in your brain? like I feel like prior to today that was really internally directed as self-hatred,

which is why you saw a lot of things like cutting and like all that kind of thing. And whereas now we're seeing it being given an outlet that is outwardly directed? Yeah. I mean, if you mean I'm going to hurt myself or I'm going to hurt you. Other people, yeah. And I think that's true. I think we see a lot of it directed. And of course, ultimately, if they do kill themselves,

I mean, there's two kids, I think, like 18, around 18. Did you see they attack that mosque? Oh, my God. I'm not in on the news, but I believe you. And that's okay. I'm just telling you. I know you're not. Yeah, and, you know, immediately you would think,

oh, these kids are anti-Muslim. They were, and everything else. Yeah. They had a manifesto, and it was like everything, it was, of course, of all the people they hate, and it's everybody. One of the kids is Latino. He hates Latino. They hate racist, I mean, they hate racist, but they are racist. You know what's the most like?

They hate gay. They hate every fucking thing. But at the bottom, it's like, it's the Jews. It's the Jews. They literally say at the bottom. Oh, by the way, also the Jews. Yeah. No, I, you know what's like, I find manifestos to be just like,

the saddest and most hilarious thing ever. Like, I know that they're related to, like, all the tragedies, but, like, have you ever seen a well-written manifesto? Yes, the Unabomber. Oh, shit. Again, I'm 18, so I don't know. But, like, was he compelling? Very.

Fuck. That's scary. I thumb through it every night before a bet. No, it was, no, he was a, I think he was an intellect of some kind. I don't know. He certainly was a. a nut because he went and lived in like a... Well, it being intellectually coherent doesn't mean that it's like...

No, he had a point to make about society becoming too technologically dependent. I think that's what the point was. Maybe in the AI... What would he do today? It's going to be like, wow, the Unabomber. You know, listen to that motherfucker. Because what he did was he was sending bombs to like... But it was so random.

It was like the head of United Airlines. lines or something like what so we should ground all the planes you know because it's that's where it in become intellectually incoherent but but but in the manifesto which was apart from the violent part like his critique of society and technology was not did not sound crazy it wasn't like the scrawlings of a madman it was like a thesis that probably would have gotten an a plus and Princeton you know because it was sort of anti-society and but it was valid As I recall, I mean, this is, you know, it's been so long since I've been in Supermax with him and all the other criminals.

Have you been to Supermax? Oh, that's a rough one. Well, I've only been to one prison. No, but you know what Supermax is. I mean, I've never been to prison here in the U.S. can talk to me about. Well, that's the one to go to it. Well, thank you. I enjoyed this.

I have to do my other interview now. Oh, you do? You have another one after me? Yes. You know what the thing with this show is? What? It's like you do it. Yeah.

You have a guest. And then like, a lot of times the guests, like, well, okay, well, you do my. And then it's like. Oh, shit. So you're on the hook. You're kind of on the hook. Oh, I'm sorry. You don't want to be, you know, it's like, well, why, how can I do that to people?

Like, well, if you do mine, well, I do yours. You know. It sounds a lot like. like the oldest profession in the world. It does. I'm such a whore. All right. Thank you.

All right. Thanks so much. Say hi to our mutual friends. Yeah, of course. Hey, y'all. It's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfar. Ever order furniture online and wonder what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold up?

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