Club Random with Bill Maher - Billy Idol | Club Random with Bill Maher

Episode Date: March 2, 2026

Rock royalty is in the house. Billy Idol sits down with Bill Maher and nothing is off-limits. From snorting heroin backstage to smoking crack to kick the heroin habit (“it worked!”), Idol tells stories that would make most publicists quit on the spot. They swap sharp takes on Frank Sinatra being a drunk bully to his son, debate whether John Lennon could really hold his own without Paul McCartney and trace the Beatles’ takeover of America. Idol reveals how a near-fatal overdose left him turning blue in a hotel room, how a brutal motorcycle accident became his real turning point, and why he now calls himself “California sober.” His new documentary is called Billy Idol Should Be Dead and after this conversation, you’ll understand why he isn’t. Support our Advertisers: -Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at https://www.rula.com/RANDOM #rulapod -Try Lucy today! Get 20% off your first order at https://www.lucy.co with code CLUBRANDOM -Protect your car with CarShield. Get 20% off at http://www.carshield.com with code RANDOM Subscribe to the Club Random YouTube channel: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/c/clubrandompodcast?sub_confirmation=1⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Watch episodes ad-free – subscribe to Bill Maher’s Substack: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://billmaher.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you listen: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/ClubRandom⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Buy Club Random Merch: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://clubrandom.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices ABOUT CLUB RANDOM Bill Maher rewrites the rules of podcasting the way he did in television in this series of one on one, hour long conversations with a wide variety of unexpected guests in the undisclosed location called Club Random. There’s a whole big world out there that isn’t about politics and Bill and his guests—from Bill Burr and Jerry Seinfeld to Jordan Peterson, Quentin Tarantino and Neil DeGrasse Tyson—talk about all of it.  For advertising opportunities please email: [e-mail] ABOUT BILL MAHER Bill Maher was the host of “Politically Incorrect” (Comedy Central, ABC) from 1993-2002, and for the last fourteen years on HBO’s “Real Time,” Maher’s combination of unflinching honesty and big laughs have garnered him 40 Emmy nominations. Maher won his first Emmy in 2014 as executive producer for the HBO series, “VICE.” In October of 2008, this same combination was on display in Maher’s uproarious and unprecedented swipe at organized religion, “Religulous.” Maher has written five bestsellers: “True Story,” “Does Anybody Have a Problem with That? Politically Incorrect’s Greatest Hits,” “When You Ride Alone, You Ride with Bin Laden,” “New Rules: Polite Musings from a Timid Observer,” and most recently, “The New New Rules: A Funny Look at How Everybody But Me Has Their Head Up Their Ass.” FOLLOW CLUB RANDOM https://www.clubrandom.com https://www.facebook.com/Club-Random-101776489118185 https://twitter.com/clubrandom_ https://www.instagram.com/clubrandompodcast https://www.tiktok.com/@clubrandompodcast FOLLOW BILL MAHER https://www.billmaher.com https://twitter.com/billmaher https://www.instagram.com/billmaher Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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dot com when you should be dead well they're 70s 80s 90s all those decades yeah oh club do you know a guy I hear you know I wouldn't start now oh I wouldn't start now oh I wouldn't Hi. Rock royalty in the house. Rock and roll royalty. You look the same. You look like a East London badass. You look like you're ready to kick some ass.

You do. And I'm sure you could. Yeah. You and your droogies. Yeah. Remember that? Yeah, of course. That movie?

That must have affected you. Yeah, clock orange, yeah. Because it was like something you could relate to, no? Yeah, it was kind of fantastic. Yeah. What year was that? 69, I think. No, I think of early 70s.

Oh. I think more like 72. Oh, yeah. I mean, are you a fan of all Kubrick's movies? A lot of them, yes, yeah. You know. I wish you'd done that Napoleon movie. I've got the script.

He was supposed to? Yeah. He was going to do that, I think, after 2001. And then they did this film, Waterloo, and it did terrible business. It was great, though. Rod Steiger as Napoleon and Christopher. Yeah, it's a great movie. But it did terrible business.

That was a TV movie. It was what they used to call a miniseries. Oh, is it? Yeah, and I forget who the... Sergei Bonda Chuck was the director. Oh, I don't know that, but the other star was not Maximilian Schell. Some, I forget, he was kind of a big actor at the time, I think British. And he had a...

It went over time, you know, like the movie went over, and they had... They didn't have him. and they had to shoot like parts of it. You could see it if you watch it, like long shots. It's just his voice. He's not on camera. You shoot a long shot, him in the shadows.

You know, it's amazing. They can actually, not the whole movie, but enough of it where the guy isn't even in the scene. Actors have done it when they like hate the other actor they're working with. You know, like I can't stand to be in the same room with this guy. So I just act without anybody. It would be like Brando and Rod Steiger in the back of the cab where Brando left before Rod Steiger did his. Is that right?

Yeah. He went to his psychiatrist or something. So Rod Steiger had to act his bits without Brando being there. On the waterfront. Yeah. The Charlie was you, Charlie. But you see them together in a two shot, don't you? Yeah, but, you know, when he did his lines, Rod Seiger did his lines.

Brando wasn't there. Oh, I see. This was close up is just... Yeah, it's his close up. Talking to a piece of cardboard. Well, Brando famously used to, you know, write the lines, his lines, on the other actor's head.

Yeah. I mean, can you imagine... I should do that with Steve Stevens, but I don't know the lyrics. Steve, can I just put them on your forehead? I never understand how you... I've got a teleprompter. You know, you have to.

It's been like you didn't always. No. No, no, only more than, only recently. But, I mean, I never understood how you musicians could remember so many. I mean, if you're doing a show that has 25 songs in it, how do you remember all those lyrics? Yeah, it's just from doing them a lot, really. And then it's really handy having the teleprompter, if we want to do a song we haven't done for ages. It means I don't, I can read the lyrics.

if I don't know it so well anymore, you know. But the majority of things, I can remember them, you know. I remember seeing Sinatra at the end. Yeah, I was lucky. I saw him in the 80s, yeah. Actually, we went to... That was near the end. Yeah, we went to... I was friends with Sam Kinnerson.

Whoa. And we went to do a show with him where, you know, because he always did a wild thing. You know, his head is rock band. So, um... Oh, he fancied himself a rock star. Yeah, oh yeah, well, he played louder than anybody else's guitar, even. He was, he was one of the few comedians who did sort of get into that rock star vibe.

I mean, Eddie Murphy did it for a minute, Andrew Dice Clay. Yeah. There have been a few who like, almost like a rock star, you know, like there's a, there's a, the kind of excitement that music... Yeah, we kind of came to do the show with him, and then, uh, I got, he had his, he had these two twins. He ended up marrying one of them. And he was doing wild thing. And I got in between these two girls that he always had dressed up as Las Vegas show girls.

I was just kind of playing around because it's not my song, you know. But he got upset and he punched my guitarist. My guitarist was on the stage. And he punched. So we said, that's it. We're not going for the second. This was the early show. We're going to do the second one.

So we said, we're not, fuck it, let's, we even tried to leave Vegas, and then we couldn't leave because it wasn't a plane. So on the way back, we were staying at the sands, you know, so on the way back, I thought, whoa, Frank Sinatra's playing. Oh, we've got us. So we saw Frank Sinatra instead, instead of doing the show with Sam. But it was fantastic, because I wouldn't have seen Frank Sinatra, otherwise he was, and he was fantastic. I mean, you didn't notice his voice was a bit ragged or anything when he was, you know. and it was kind of fantastic. His son was, you know, directing the...

That's what I saw. The son was the director of the orchestra, and Frank would humiliate him. He did it. At one point, he was getting sweaty, and he went to take his own handkerchief out of his pocket and then thought better of it, he took his sons and mopped his brow and put it back.

He was always doing... It was stuff like that all the way through. It was fantastic. It was really funny. It was great. I saw him in 1995 already. You said a musical. I took my mother.

My parents were from New Jersey and saw Frank Sont to perform when he was starting out. Wow. Yeah. Like in a little late 30s. Wow. Like 1939. And a place called the Rustic Cabin is the first place he sang out.

So it was very sentimental for my mother. And my father had just died. So it was just like, you know, there was a lot of emotion in that room. And Frank took it all away. No, I'm kidding. I mean, well, I mean, he just was such a dick. He was a dick to his son. He was drunk.

He had seven large prints teleproperters all around him. I mean, you couldn't miss it. I mean, I could have sang those songs. And yet, when he was singing a song that he hadn't sung for 50 fucking years, he still couldn't get through it. He tried to do Mac the Knife. You know, Mac the Knife. Okay, which is Bobby Darren's song.

Yeah, a ton of lyrics. And he had done it on one of his later albums. I have it. I like, I like, I'm a huge Franks, anatra fan, you know, for the music. Not the early music, but not the early crooner shit. But like when he, 50s, it's got to be swing that whole, you know, fly me to the moon. That record is great. Because Frank was either like super depressed.

He was polar, maybe not officially, but like he was either super. depressed, quarter to three. Yeah, true. Now in the place, save a gardener left me. I'm gonna kill myself right now, because without love who gives a shit and what are you looking at, you fucking punk? Or fly me to the moon, everything's groovy up here in space.

You know, everything's cool in in 1958, if you're white. You know, that was, there was no middle ground, but it's all great. But he did, I mean, I just could not forget how he was mean to his kid. So all the artistry, you know, and like I forgive him for he couldn't get through Mac the Knife. It wasn't his song. He like started it three times, you know. Oh, the shark.

and then he would blame the kid for this fucking kid he must it's not the kid frank you know you're drunk and 80 it So you know new musicians you just live in a completely different universe than normal people you do Even among show business there's an excitement that music Gets to in people yes true that just is nothing else is quite like it in in in in the the arts and its effect on people, which allows the musicians themselves to live in a bubble, very often an information bubble. They very often don't know what's going on and don't need to. They have all sorts of people.

I mean, you must have lived a life that is, I mean, you're obviously survived it, but, you know. Yes. You know, come on. When you were at King's Shit on the charts, I mean, you must have lived. You must have, you know, had that certainly thrown at you. Yeah, it was pretty wild. I mean, I was sort of watching Youngblood. You know, it reminds me of me.

He was here. Yeah, no. Loved him. When he was breaking, he's breaking through. I remember what that was like. Yes. You know, it was pretty incredible. You could have been named Youngblood.

He could have been Billy Idol. No, really. Have you talked about? I remember what that was like. It was really incredible. It was an incredible time. and was so watching him a little bit I remember. Do you know him?

Have you talked to? I sang with him. We did white wedding with him on his, in his young blood. He's got that festival he puts on, the Young Blood Festival. Blood Fest. So I sang with him, we did white wedding together. Eight minutes, right? The song?

Well, my version is. Yeah, the dance version. I suppose it's a long version. And it's still too short. Great. It's such a great record. Great. Oh, so many of years are.

I always wanted to ask you, you did Moni, Money, which was like even a little before my time. Like, I started listening to music in 1968. I was 12. I think Mone Mone Mone was 66 or something. Yeah, it's kind of... So it was like a song I would occasionally hear because they would, you know, on the radio I listened to in the late 60s, was the top 20. They kept playing.

They played the number one song every hour on the hour. Like once an hour, you heard if you were number one, which is pretty amazing. And then the rest of it was the other songs in the top 20, but every once in a while,

they'd be like, here's a golden oldie. And it'll be like from last year. You know, to kids, that's like a thousand years ago. Way back. And that was one of the songs. Here she come down

to monie, mooney, mooney. And you killed it. I mean, the original was good, but it was, I mean, Tommy James has done better. But it was a good pop record, but it was a little bubble gum. And your version was... It's amped it up a bit, yeah. Yeah. And what do we imagine the song means, mony, mooney, Billy Idol?

What does monie, moony, moony mean to you? Well, I know how the song was written, so I know it's that building in New York. M-O-N-Y on that they were looking at that was building there's a building in New York the Money building has M-O-N-Y money building or Money they were looking at that when they're writing the song so they they were looking for a title and they kind of they were trying to think that's sort of the girl's name or then they kind of looked at that the top of the building and so what about Mone Mone and then that's yeah I mean I had you know I interviewed interviewed on that

like this is an interview, but I got high, as I'm doing with you, with Billy Joel in Boca last year. And we were, I was complimenting on his great lyrics and stuff. But also mentioning that lyrics in pop music, they don't have to be good. It's better if they are. But you can get away with moni, mooney. You can just do it. And if it doesn't make sense to people, well, are you dancing? Then shut the fuck up.

Yeah, that's what that song is really all about. It's about that. It's actually a drum loop. The original song was a drum loop. Because I was always thinking, why is it so, what is it about it that makes you, you know, want to move or something? Well, because she's coming down. When we did... Here she come down, moni, mooney.

Yeah, we did our version now. Shotgun turnaround. Yeah. I mean, that doesn't say at all. Yeah. But, yeah, it's a drum loop. So we did it with a real drummer, though. We didn't, because they just took a four-bar loop.

That's why it doesn't stop. The original record doesn't stop. But Tommy James is, to me, a very unheralded rock star. Yeah, really. He had massive hits. Massive hits and good ones. Yeah, very good. Some of them that are not as well known to the public.

I mean, people know, I think we're alone now. Yeah. Which is a great record. Just a great pop record. And redone in the 80s, a massive hit for Debbie Gibson? Somebody. Yeah, it was What's Her Name? Somebody, what's her name?

What's her name was good? She kind of did all those malls. She opened up all those malls. She opened up all those malls. That's how she. I'm not sure that's what you want to be remembered as, you know. I think she had a number one with, yeah, one of Tommy James songs. But then same time, Joan Jett did Crimson and Clover and I did Moni, Mone.

So there's this kind of Tommy James. Crimson and Clover. It's fantastic. But again, what does it mean? Have you ever thought about it, Crimson and Clover? Really, I think it's a psychedelic, a bit of a psychedelic. To this day, I'm rolling in clover, I suppose. To this day, I would say, I mean, I have some sexy music in my iPod.

I use the old iPod. I feel like it's suited to my needs. I have some sexy time music. But if you really want to get panties wet, and I know you do, just the opening note of crimson and clover. Just put the... That's true. That's true, that would do it. Just, I mean, it's, it's, it's the sexiest thing on record, I think.

I mean. The are. Just that, ah, and that, do-da-do-do, oh, you come walking over. But again, I'm waiting to show her, Crimson and Clover. You know, you're anticipating. What are you going to show her? This is awesome. We're going to get to really know you.

Grimson and Glover. But, you know, it's just a sound collage. Yeah. You know. Sounds good. That's a big factor in writing lyrics. They sing good. Also, one of the first records is to put that shaky reverb.

That's right, yeah. Right? Yeah. I mean, and then the end, which just goes in. He was great with just an electric guitar. He's one of the few guys who, like, he just sounded like a kid in the neighborhood who you could hear from your bedroom window

who got a little amp and a little fucking electric guitar and was just doing it. And no frills. And he just had a way. That song, all of his songs, just, just, he understood sound, you know. It's just, it's a sound medium. I mean, some of the Beatles songs are, to me, just same thing,

like very forgettable lyrics. But it just sounds great. Yeah. You know, I mean, paperback writer just sounds great. It's like a good, like a bass lead almost, you know. Yeah. I mean, hello goodbye. It's just sounds like.

John Lennon has always said it's day tripper again or something or ticket to ride. He said, you know, he's always, he said, that Paul's just ripped me off again, you know. He said what? Well, because the bottle-o-ding, bun-n-d-d-d-d-dun-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-n. The riff in paperback writer, it's very similar to something like ticket-to-ride, you know. Oh. Ding-d-d-d-n-ding.

He said, his bull's just taking my ticket to ride and sort of. I got to listen. I never heard that story. He doesn't mean it like he just means he's replying to my song with a similar thing. Because they're always replying to each other's songs. Do you think? John Lennan does money on one album and then next minute, Paul McCartney does, can't buy me love. So he's kind of answering.

They're always answering each other. Of course, money was a cover. Yeah. But still, you know, he's saying money's what I want and then Paul McCartney does, but it can't buy me love. Yeah, that's a really interesting. thesis. I never heard that. But now I'm going to re-look at listen to all. It kind of goes on into

even John Lennon's solo stuff where one of those songs on the last album, that double fan. He sings about things are getting better and better and you can't tell us that he's not thinking about the song getting better. On Sergeant Peppers

and stuff like that, you know. What song is that on double fantasy? Woman? I don't know if it's beautiful boy. Beautiful boy. It's one of those songs where he says, and it's getting better and better,

and you kind of go, there has to be a retort. One of my all-time favorite, just single records is starting over. Yeah, it's great. The one that was on the charts when he was killed. Yeah. The lead single off that album,

that he hadn't made an album in five years. I mean, it's got the Phil Specter, full Phil Specter genius on it. I mean, okay. You shouldn't shoot your dates in the head. We know that.

We're not forgiving that. But that doesn't take away from the sound of that record. That record never shot anybody. That record is just a great record. Our life together is so special. The way it just builds, you know. And the backing vocals, it's almost like a 50s. It's like Elvis, a bit of an Elvis touch to it.

But it showed that John Lennon still could do it on his own. Oh, yeah. I mean, he certainly did not do it as much as McCartney by far. First of all, he was just very, first of all, he died, okay? He only had 10 years. But even that 10 years, from 70 to 80 when they were the first decade, when the group was split up, right? I mean, McCartney probably had, you know, 10 hits on the charts or more, you know.

know, my love, does it good memory. You know, like not always, like, genius, but like reliable pop hits. Yeah. Listen to what the man said. Silly love songs, never one of my favorites, but giant hit. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I mean, he just did a lot of stuff.

Yeah. And kept doing it in the 80s and the 90s. I mean, he's band on the run. I mean, that was the same. Just that one album. Just that one album. Yeah, that's what bro. That's what bro.

everybody's faith in Paul McCartney back again when he did, band on the run. Oh, you think? Yeah, a lot of people slagging him off and everything with Ram and all the First McCartney. I like that a lot. First McCartney had, maybe I'm amazed on it. It's fantastic. I mean, that's, even if it was just that song.

Yeah, it's huge. Yeah, I mean, was there other stuff? You know, it's funny, there's a song on the first one every night. Yeah, I like that. I like every night. Every night, I just want to wake up. And then, but the, so of the chorus. do do do do do

every time I hear it I think wow that's you never give me your money yeah you never give you your money it does sound very that one part of it is almost a direct yeah because my ear goes right to do do do do do your money okay so we busted him on that other than that he's the Mozart of our day but you know other than that

yeah but John Lennon he was obviously doing other things and taking care of issues bigger than music. But it was nice to see that right before he went, he still had the capacity on his own without Paul McCartney, because I think that was an issue that did hang over his head. Can I do it without the guy who, we all kind of know, is just even more gifted as far as this like being prolific and being, he's just a musical prodigy on a level that I think even John Lennon is not on. But John Lennon could still.

I mean, he certainly was the spirit of the Beatles when they started. And he still, on his own, wrote so many great records. But I do think he worried when they split up, like, oh, wow, if I don't have this guy, because this guy, I can go in there with like, because he wasn't, you know, even by his own admission, he could be quite lazy. So he could go in there with something that was good but not great. It's like, this guy I picked up when I was 15. he is some sort of fucking player.

And he's gonna, he's gonna bring this one up to band standards. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I think he did worry. And by the way, sometimes the stuff John Lennon did put out in the 70s, mind games, not a great album. Yeah. Not really up to band standards.

And I'm wondering if, I'm sure the collaboration would always been better on both ends. But it was just great to see that at that final moment, he could make a record like starting over, which is as much as a favorite of mine as any Beatles record. It's just a great record. Yeah. So. Yeah, and woman and stuff.

Woman, yes, another classic. It's a great song. But I wouldn't have wanted to see him singing in Vegas when he was, you know. I mean, there's some good things about dying young and leaving a pretty corpse, you know. You sort of have the best of both worlds. Like, you're a guy who should have died. Isn't that the name of your documentary?

Yes. What is it called? Billy Idol should be dead. Billy Idol should be dead. So when you were bouncing titles around, was there ever a moment where, Phil, you had an idea. Something about Billy Idol, big star. Now we're going to go with the dead. Okay.

Tom, run that by me again. that thing you thought of a couple of days ago. No, so what is the closest that you ever came to being dead? Look at me, acting like a real host. A few times, yeah. Like what? Well, we kind of went, I went back to England in Triumph with the album, Rebel Yell. I'd done that out.

The biggest of that year. I would think that was the biggest of that year. I was going to do it on top of the pops in England, you know, kind of returning to England I've had this big record in America. Conquering hero. It kind of coming back to... Yes. So a load of friends of us met us at the airport and they had a bunch of heroin on them.

So of course, somehow everybody else in the room passed out except for me and the other guy, you know, who's chopping the lines out. So we kept doing lines and then... Oh, doing lines of heroin snorting it. Yeah. Oh. I don't know how everyone else had passed out, but me and him didn't. So you were not shooting it? No.

just snorted. You never shot it. I've got a few times, but I just, I didn't like that idea of it. My mother was a nurse, I think something about that. Oh, so there we learned something. You did not shoot her when you snorted it. Yeah. Pussy, go ahead. Yeah, no, just

I'm glad I did that because, yeah. But yeah, anyway, I kind of, eventually we did pass out and then when people, other people in the room came to, I was going blue, you know. So. I don't.

They put me in a bath. Blue, you said. They walked me about on the... Wait, go back to Blue. Why do you go blue on heroin? Well, if you're dying, yeah. Oh, if you're dying. You go and start turning blue.

But why would it kill you? Oh, I guess I shouldn't ask that question. I know it does. I just don't know how. Yeah, no, no, do I... I suppose it just overwhelms your system. Right. And I suppose it stops you breathing or something else.

Yeah, you know, look, I'm not an advocate for heroin by any means, by any means. But it is important to note that there are very rare, very rare, but there are people who actually did it in a managed way. William S. Burroughs, I believe, was doing it at 80. Wow. Like, you know, some people just have a, I mean, I wouldn't recommend it. Don't try it at home, kids.

Because I've also heard that somebody once described doing heroin the first time is the best orgasm you ever had times a thousand. Well, it is really great. It's just the worst thing is getting off. We'll be right back. It's just getting off it. It's terrible. And that's what stops me going back to doing it.

It's the thought of getting off. It's so terrible. Help a pot smoker who has done every drug by heroin. Like when I was in college, I was a deal. I mean, there's no other word for it. Like, I sold drugs to other people, you know. And we were at the lowest level, me and my partner. I did have.

We have a partner. We're like Abbot and Costello. Except Abbot and Costello had no specific business, and yet they described each other as my partner. Whatever. In my case, I had a partner. And we would sell on the lowest level, like, you know, the ounce of pot. whatever our dealer had, like the guy above us, like the guy who bought like five pounds

of pot, and then he would sell it to his low level of steelers, you know, one pound and we would sell ounces. So whatever he had, speed was very big at the time and very good. Cocaine, opium, LSD, or whatever. It probably wasn't really LSD, whatever he had. would sell to other college kids, allegedly. Heroin, I never did it. So every drug I ever have done or would talk about,

I relate to as good or bad pot. That's like my benchmark. Like, ask me about any drug, and I say, oh, yeah, I did that drug. And it was just like, it was like pot, but I was more low-key. Or, you know, it was like pot, but much sloppier. Or it was like pot, but whatever, hornyer, whatever. Heroin, I don't know. So...

It's not like pot. It's not. It's not like pot at all. No? So what is it then? Why is it so good? And where can I get some? No.

Why is it so good? I don't get it. What kind of feeling? Well, in my case, it, when it knocks me out, you know, I kind of like that, because I'm quite sort of active or I'm quite sort of sort of... So I quite like something putting me to sleep, you know. Well, that's a really expensive, dangerous sleeping pill. I mean, if that's all, it must do something more than that. Well, yeah, I mean, but.

But people do nod out, right? No, yeah, yeah. Why? What is that? That's because you're so relaxed or you're just, you want to be? When you're not knotted out, are you like, still in your head having a good time? Yeah, you're having some sort of like,

some sort of like almost like a dream, dreams, but, you know, I actually dream, I don't know if you feel like you're dreaming something, you know. I remember buying something, I think it was here in L.A., but it might not have, but I've been on the road a lot in my whole life,

so it could have been somewhere, and it was like a thrift store, I feel like some sort of like, it was definitely not Macy's. and I was at the cash register making this transaction, and the person behind the cash register just, you know, it was just like power off and just right there. Just nod out.

In the middle of a cash transaction. Yeah, people usually nodded out. It would be about to scratch themselves, and then their hand would be in the air because they'd passed out. Are you fucking with me? No? No, they'd be like that because they're going to itch themselves. Because it makes you itch?

Yeah, it makes you itchy, you know. That's really funny. It makes you itch, but then you're too fucked up to scratch. So you're scratch. You're going to scratch, and then you passed out as you go. That should be made. But it's awful getting off it. And that boy George actually said...

He was here. I love him. He's so funny. It's like a skeleton that's trying to get out of your body. That's how he described coming off heroin. I've got to say, that's what it feels like. A skeleton. Like your skeletons trying to get out of your body.

Wow. So you've, you know, that's how uncomfortable is. It's horrible. Right. And John Lennon, speaking of him, cold turkey. Yeah. Remember the record? I bought that record, yeah.

What? I bought cold turkey. You bought it. You can remember that. Oh, yeah. Yes, Gorson bought the plastic owner band records. What did you think of the song? Oh, I liked it.

I thought it was great. I thought it was great. I didn't. I didn't. going into that direction. I thought it was interesting. It's not a good song. It's just not a good song.

I kind of like the moaning. I just liked, you know, I suppose I liked the fact he was branching out a bit. I liked the first solo album, I thought it was incredible. Plastic on a bun, yeah. Oh, with God. It's kind of incredible. God is a concept by which we measure our pain. Yeah, I was trying to understand that.

Well, that's a pretty awesome, deep pop lyric. Yeah. Right? God is a concept by which we measure our pain. I wish he wrote more like that. Yeah. He was kind of lazy. Because, like, you know the song?

I'm sure you do, of course, across the universe. Yeah, cool. I mean, the poetry in that song is sublime. Yeah. You know, shining on me like a million suns. They shine across the, whatever it is. I'm not remembering it right now, but all the way through, it's so poetic, the wind inside a letter box.

Yeah, right. And he just didn't write like that enough. I mean, there's stuff that's not certainly typical, like I am the walrus, but he's just gobbledygook. What the fuck is? Well, he deliberately wrote that as gobbled. I know, but he said Bob Dylan was getting away with doing that, and people were taking him, so he said, I'm gonna do,

I want to confuse the critics as well. I want to confuse the fans to make them, make them, what do you make of this? Right. It's kind of what he was. So he said to his mate, Pete Shotton or something. No, that's right, the most ridiculous song. And then he remembered that nursery rhyme that they learned at school,

the dead dog's eye nursery rhyme. I didn't, no, but is that where the yellow matter custard dripping from a dead dog's eye? But then they also the ambulance, the ambulance or the police in those days, I know, nah, no, no, no, no, no, I am he as you are he. Because I think he heard an ambulance and he got the idea for the beginning of it. Yeah, it does sound like an ambulance. Na, no, no, yeah. I mean, okay, bad example, because that's one of his awesomest songs.

I mean, it's just amazing. And you're right, and that does come through that he is having you on, especially when he says the walrus was Paul. Yeah, yeah, they should. Okay, we get it, you know, that you're, here's another. clue oh no that's yeah it's glass onion yeah the one is it okay so he's referring to walrus on another song yeah I mean it's same idea very cheeky and but yes he he's deliberately doing that but I wish he had written more songs like

across the universe that were like because he had that gift he could he could do it yeah and he settled for a lot of pop lyrics and you know sort of easy stuff I thought, I mean, instant karma. I liked it, but, you know, somebody accused them once of writing three blind mice over and over again. Three blind mice. All you need is love is a bit, the same chords. I think it's the same chords as... And we all shine on. But like, again, you musicians, you songwriters, how can you, there can't be anything new. There's been a zillion, gazillion, songs. There's only so many notes, so many chords. It's amazing. People have got all, you know, all these, that you can get more songs out of,

as you say, just there's only a few notes. There's only, and, you know, you had some sharps and flats, but really there's only a few notes. It's the, it's the inflection you put on the notes that, that makes the tune or the song. So it's, it's your personality. Working the note is makes, makes the... What is your process? process. Well, Are you a craftsman or are you a let the muse strike me?

Yeah, I suppose so. I'm a bit, yes, I suppose I have to, I do sort of let the muse strike a little bit. I look for song titles, that helps a lot. Have a really good title helps. And then sometimes you just sit with the guitar and over, you know, just by playing, You know, playing around eventually something, something makes you get an ooh feeling. You know, as you're trying something, you get a kind of...

I start the guitar. You get a kind of... You know. And you kind of know, oh, this is a good idea, you know. Or this is making me react in a good way, you know, to my own ideas. Answer me, honestly. Did you ever write a song or just even be playing an instrument while getting blown? I don't think so.

I bet you you did. That would be a new, I should have done that. I'm very disappointed you haven't. I don't think I've done that. Wow, I can still do that though. I only bring it up because there was this book by this lady, I forget the name. It was like 25 years ago, 20, I don't know, something like that. And it was one of those tell-all books about rock.

and stuff and movie stars and famous people she'd fucked. You know, needless to say a bestseller. The title escapes me. But among the rock stars she talks about was George Harrison. Now maybe this is not true, this is her version, I'm not endorsing it, I'm just saying her version was he played the ukulele while she was blowing him. He probably did do that, he did play the ukulele. I hope he did.

That's bad enough you haven't. Don't take that away from me too. Still got things to achieve. I mean, it could yield creativity. It could. It could. I think it needs exploring. Let's put our best man on it.

I'm going to be writing more songs, so. No, you're, so you've never been married, right? Now I've avoided it. Me too. Somehow. And just as well, because I'll only be divorced a million times. We are in a very exclusive club. Wow. Right?

People, guys who have not gotten married, and I mean, I'm 70, I'm guessing you're... Yeah, I'm 70. Oh, really? Yes. He's 56? 1956? Yeah, 55, November. No, I'm January 56. Wow.

Oh, John Leiden, John Rotten, same. Oh, really? He's January 56. Our mothers were pregnant at the same time. Yes, yes. What if we had gotten switched at birth? What if I sang white wedding and you were like doing this and talking to the governor? It wouldn't be terrible.

You'd be terrible at my job. I'd be terrible at yours. Yeah, no, yes, I think I'm better. I'm so glad our mothers. My mother was in England during the war. Oh. She a nurse in World War II. Yeah, my mom was nurse.

That's why she came to England. She's Irish, and she came to England, become a nurse. You feel like that Irish heritage helps you with your poetic side because I'm Irish also? I would think so, yeah. You know, my grandmother could play 14 instruments, not that I can. I'm on what, that musical. 14 instruments?

She could write music and she could play, yeah. I mean, a lot of it was the piano, the accordion, the viola. You know, she'd play a number of instruments. She could write music, I think. And although she wasn't doing much of that when I... Were you poor when you grew up? We were okay. I mean, Dad worked really hard, so...

What do you do? He was a salesman, really, and he sold different... He started off selling typewriters, then he sold medical equipment. In what town is this? Well, we actually came to America. I lived in America when I was a... On Long Island, when I was a child. We came to America, you know, it was about two and a half.

and we stayed for about three years. But you kept the accent. Well, my first accent was American. Because you're around the father who talked like that, the parents. Well, my first accent was American. My first memories of Long Island and of having an American accent, and, you know, it was sneakers, not plimsels, and it was... But you don't sound American.

No, no, well, we went back to England. Ice? No. No, you have a great accent because it's like a Carrie Grant accent. It's not quite a British accent, but it has hints of it. And so it just strikes us all as just charming and... I've tried to hold on to it because I do think... Oh, you should.

I do think it has a certain effect. Oh, I bet you it's great with the ladies. Chicks love an accent. Yeah. That's how dumb they are, am I right? No, cut that out. Yeah, it's worth holding on to. I've deliberately held on to, tried to hold on to an element of my British.

Yeah. It's also good for the music. I mean, we hear in America of a certain age like me, really, I came of age right with the British invasion. Right. A little, I mean, some of it happened before I was interested. I mean, in 1964, when the Beatles came here, that's really the beginning of it. I mean, I was eight. I was not interested in music.

I was interested in baseball. But they were still together. I mean, the first album I really listened to was Sergeant Pepper. Even though it had been out a year. But it was still current and we had it in the house. And I mean, so, but, you know, oh, fuck. I forgot what I was going to say. Well, I felt in love with the bill.

I went back to around, you know, late 60. late 62, we went back to England, you see. So I was right there when the Beatles kicked off. And so I wanted to buy from me to you, but it was going down the charts. We didn't have quite enough pocket money. So I've already believed in John and Paul already. I really believed in them already. I don't know why.

You just believed in him. I just knew the next record would be great. It was she loves you. I bought that six shillings and thrupt and safety. That's what it cost. Wait. So you were in England. We went back in late 62, you know.

You went back? Yeah, we went by my dad wanted to go back to England. And then how long were you in England for? About 25 years, I suppose, to 181. Oh, 25 years? Oh, that may explain the accent. Yes, of course. Oh, okay, I see.

I was American kid. Oh, I see. Because I was going to say, for me to you... Give the ball to the American kid so we can cut him down. That's what they were shouting, give the soccer ball to that American kid. For me, you is... The third single. Yeah, it was, yeah.

The first single was Love Me Do. Love Me Do. Which I've never liked. Didn't like it then. Didn't like it now. It has the unmistakable, I mean, joy of the Beatles and how much joy they took and making them music. I think the harmonica thing is great.

I know, never been a big fan of the harmonica. Ah, there's just, I never been, you know. That harmonica thing is, well. It's called a mouth organ, Bill. Anyway, yeah. Always makes me want to put an organ in my mouth. No, it's just, I just never been a fan of that particular instrument. And also, they wrote it when they were like 15.

It's talk about childish lyrics. You know, love, love me do, I know I love you, please be true. And that's okay as a historical artifact. I like it as that. Do I want to hear it? No. Okay, the next single was Please, Please Me, which is still a great record. It's fantastic. So even between the first and the second, they made a record that I want to hear forever. Okay, so they were moving quickly. Third single is from me to you, I think. Yes.

Fourth single is, She Loves You, Fifth One that broke America was, I Want to Hold Your Hand. So we're talking about from Me to You, which is like, you know, again, a very respectable record of the early. period, not again a profound lyric. But, you know, we're talking about teenagers playing for teenagers. Yeah. You know, on that level. And it's still got their unmistakable joie de vivre. Yeah.

You know. But, yeah, I mean, if you had the choice of playing either from me to you or a day in the life. Yeah, I mean, that's what's so fantastic. Wouldn't you play a day in the life three times? in a row. How they're able to morph into such, you know, change their music up so drastically and still take the audience with them, unlike the Beach Boys, where they kind of lost their audience.

Well, Albert Goldman, who wrote the John Lennon biography, took a lot of shit for it, but I happen to think he's an amazing writer. But he made the point that the Beatles always kept ahead of their audience. Yeah, they did. Which is kind of what you're getting at. Yeah. And the example he gave was the lead song on Revolver was Taxman. And he said, can you imagine a subject less interesting to teenagers than taxes?

Which is such an awesome observation. Yeah, and if you think of that. You know what, kids, we're talking about taxes now. Me to you, that was two years ago. Yeah. We're just different. And you know what? You want to enjoy us?

Get on. You catch up. Yeah. And we did. And we did. Yeah. That's what was great. They kept, you just believed, I believed in them. And they kept on, so proving you right. That's what was fantastic. So you were in what city in 1963, no, 1963, yeah, three, when, from me to you came out? Well, I was living in Southern England, you know, talking, I suppose, for a year.

We lived in, then we lived in. Okay, so you were very, you know, you were in the country where it was happening. Yeah. I mean, obviously they were in the north because that's Liverpool. Yeah, but they'd come down to London. They'd play everywhere. They were living in London. You look at that, I mean, they've, you know. The London scene was taken off because the Stones were in London.

There was Dave Clark Five. And then there's all those bands in the pool. Well, 1963 is the year the Beatles went crazy, you know, went crazy big, but only in England. In England, yeah. We didn't know who the fuck they were. No. I mean, they said Ed Sullivan, like, saw them.

Yeah, they were. me back from Sweden or something. Yes, he saw the crowd at the airport. And so who's this for? And they said, it's for this group of the Beatles, yeah. Right. And then he said, well, they're this popular. Why don't we have them on my program?

Well, I was wondered, how the hell did, you know, the other three songs do nothing? You know, me too, did nothing. In America. Yeah. She loves you, did that. And then suddenly, I want to hold your hand. Goes to the number one.

So suddenly the Capitol got behind us. They didn't have a record label. That's part of the reason. She Loves You was issued on... V.J. or something. Swan. A Swan that's right, yeah. Swan Records, which was, you know, like a guy with a fax machine in his mother's basement.

It was, you know, nothing. Yeah. So, you know, there was no press behind it. No. No. Very often what happened in America was a disc jockey would love a song and start playing it. And then the crowd would, you know, the people in the audience would write in. and say, oh, we love that.

I mean, many singles like that have been broken that way. Maybe it was Murray the K then. Murray the K in New York side, playing. I want to hold your hand, I suppose. I don't know if that's how it happened, or it was just the noise from overseas was getting deafening. I suppose they put money behind him. Right.

And capital records, which EMI owned, at that point they were with EMI. They must have told them you've got to do it. The EMI who owned capital money. must have told them, you've got to put money into this band. But they always said they didn't want to go to America until they had a number one. Yeah, that's right. And then they did.

Yeah. You know, it's funny, they were in, I think, Paris when they heard. Yeah. They came here, oh, this is February, so they came here. Yeah, they're playing the Olympia or something in Paris. And not enjoying it. The only place in the world, it's so indicative of the French, the only place in the world that stuck their nose up at Beatlemania was France. Like they were like, we don't know what this phenomenon is all about.

They are talented, I suppose, but are they Charles Hasnavo? I don't think so. I mean, they had like a long engagement there. And it was, none of it was like a disaster. they got laid. It was France and they were the Beatles. But I mean, for fuck sake, like they were just not like the crowds everywhere else in the world that went nuts. They just did not. But I think that's where they got the telegram, which we barely remember as a child, that, you know, you have a number one in America. They were like, oh, well, this is very

handy since we're going to do Ed Sullivan. It must have been so much, it must be so much, it must be so much fun like that upward climb when your, you know, when your rocket gets shot to the moon. Yeah, and it was just, it was really exciting for us in England, seeing that happening, because it really meant, oh, man. No, I mean, for you. If you can get into a band and it'll take you around the world. But you had that experience, you know, when the world is at your feet. Yeah, I did.

And once you get that high, you know, you're good, you're stamped for life. I mean, there'll always be people who want to keep up with you, you know, because you meant a lot to that, especially it's usually that formative part of your life that you remember so fondly. I mean, you know, everybody remembers the song they first got laid to. Yes, I'm sorry. And for most people, it is white wedding.

That's the interesting statistical part of that. It's just good. It says wedding in it, chicks are going to get, they're going to cream about that. Just hearing the word wedding is the, like, you know. But so what do you think about like the next decade? How old do you know? Well, 70. 70, right.

So we're 70. Okay. You know, we hung on. We're going to make the most of the next 10 years. We hung on pretty good. I think we both, you mean, you are, some people are like almost unrecognizable. Like, really, you know what I mean? I know.

You're eminently recognizable. It's a little scary when you see. You look exactly like Billy Idol. There's no, the hair, just everything. It's like instantly easy to say, oh, that's Billy Idol. You know, oh, is he a little older? Oh, hey, looks great. You know, that's it.

me, I feel like I basically look like who I did. I mean, yeah, I mean, probably a little worse, but we're all worse for the wear. But 70 to 80, you know, all I'm saying is AI. Get on it. Yeah, it's a little bit of a while getting to this stage in life, isn't it? Because, yeah, you really, it's getting we're getting near. I don't know.

Especially when you do fun, childish things like we do. Yeah, still do. It just becomes kind of weird than to not be young. Yeah. It's like, wait, we're the people that didn't grow up anyway. You know, we can't ride a motorcycle. Yeah, it's not like we worked in an office all our lives. You're like, we did weird, you know, fun, you know, not.

job-like things. And so we're supposed to be young, always, you know, and then you're like, no, but you're not. Yeah. It's, that's a, you know, how long can you like act young? And I guess forever. I guess it's in your mind, right? Well, I hope so, yeah, I hope that, I mean, I'm sort of lucky. I'm doing something I really like, so that keeps you. Yeah. young because, you know, yeah, I'm doing something that I enjoy and so... And your penis? Is that healthy? Yeah, it seems to be all right, yeah. I hope that wasn't too personal a question.

That seemed to be all right. Well, only because Sigmund Freud said, you know, there's only two things in life that determine whether you're happy or not, your career and your love life. I see. What? You never heard that? No. No.

That or Freud? Well, you know what? I think he, don't sue me if he didn't say that. You know, I don't know. Maybe it was Rocky who said that. But I think it was Freud who said that. Even if he didn't, I think it's true.

Like, aren't they the two things that, I mean, it's either your career or your love life that determine whether you're happy? There's not, I mean, do I feel better when I have something great to watch at night? Like, you know, like on TV? Yeah, but that's not what, like, actually determines my happiness. My happiness is determined by my career and my love life. I'm pretty sure Freud did say that. Yeah.

So, anyway, that's why I ask about your peanuts. Well, it seems to be in good Nick. Well, that's awesome. I've always been rather proud of it. And it seems to have gone through. whatever I put it through and come out the other side. Right. How does heroin affect your dick?

Yeah, it doesn't really make it work. Although you can fuck forever. If it is work and you can fuck forever. That's the thing about it. What is it? If it is working, you can fuck forever on it. That's the thing. Is that right?

Heroin, you say. And what brand would you recommend? No. Well, I mean, I don't know. I can't look away because, you know, the next landmark is 80, and 80 just seems like a crazy number. Yeah. But I thought 60 was crazy.

Yeah, exactly. I thought 70 would be, but it seemed somehow sliding through. Yeah, but I don't know. I just wonder. At some point it's going to get us when. At some point it's got to get us. I just don't like that idea, though. Exactly.

I don't, I don't, I, let's put it this way. I think I hear the footsteps. I don't feel the breath on my, my neck yet. Okay. But I know that's, but I know that's next. I know that's next because you don't really avoid any, you know, in life, life is a series of faces and, you know, passages. You don't avoid any of them.

I suppose not, no. It's going to happen, but yeah, just got to try and put that day off. exactly you just try to put that day off so i assume you you must i can tell by looking at you you must live healthy people people people you're just see in people's faces yeah you can you can see absolutely i can see at our age you just you're on a very short leash of what you can get away with to that fucks with your health yeah sleep drugs liquor whatever it is you don't drink no anymore not really i mean i used to just have a glass of wine if I say a restaurant, I would have a couple of glass

wine, but they kind of stopped me doing that, you know, a couple of years ago. Who's they? The doctor, you know? Oh, the doctor. Sort of said, can you not do that even? So I'm like, I'll buy me, you know, like come off it sort of thing, but, but I still, you know, I take, you know, pot pills and stuff like that, so I'm not. You pop pills? For what?

Oh, pot? Yeah, pot pills. Instead of vaping. I stopped vaping to come. couple of years ago. So I used to vape all the time. And then I sort of realized I don't know why I'm vaping all the time. I could just take these. Well, a little bit, yeah, but it was more, I realized I could take the pills. And I didn't, once I was taking the pills, I sort of noticed that I didn't feel like vaping. So I carried on doing that. And so, yeah, it was a couple of years now. I haven't really vaped. So I'd just take the, take some summer night and stuff like that, you know. I took one today. Yeah, or in the daytime, yes. And yet I still smoke, you know?

It's just, I mean, I don't want to be the skunk at the garden party, but I think I need to go up to heroin. Do you know a guy? I hear you, no. I wouldn't start now. Oh, I wouldn't. No, we've done, you're doing really well, don't. Can you imagine it? Well, actually, you know, heroin is... That's the most scary thing, I think, when people are doing.

start taking drugs and they're old. You know, that's really, I don't know, I think that's really like, whoa, man. So I'm glad I did it when I was in my 20s or when I was a teenager and in my 20s. I'm glad I did it back then, not now, you know. You need energy to be a drug addict and I don't have that kind of energy. That's a great, you ought to write a song around that. No, really, that's a great idea and it's so true, because it's such a truism. Yeah, to be a junkie, you need energy.

You need energy. You need a drug addict. Be a junkie. You really do. To stand on a corner and possibly get beat. Sometimes to score, yes, to get the drugs, to keep doing the drugs. You know, it's amazing what a great product drugs are because they have this diminishing set of returns. And mostly what they do is make you want to do more of the product, even though it's working

less. Yeah. I mean, the classic one of this is cocaine. Yeah, yeah. He said knowingly. Why, you had a brief cocaine period? Oh, yeah. Well, once you're trying to get off heroin, what do you go to? You go to something else that I started smoking crack to get off heroin, you know. Did you really? It worked.

It worked. There you have it, kids. And I do. Want to get off heroin? It's probably the worst advert for... Step up to crack. But it worked. I got off there.

I got off the heroin. You have to spell it out for your little pricks. It worked. It's years. It's years ago. Don't do drugs, kids. If I've told you once, I've told you a thousand times. I'm glad I got away.

That's actually the worst drug there is. In a way, yeah, because it's kind of nasty. The legal one. But it does make things so much fun. It was a little. I like taking drugs back then. I'd really enjoy it. It took me a long time to put them in the rear-view mirror,

but at some point I realized you had to do that. I feel what people who are not rock stars like us don't quite understand is that it's the combination of the drugs. Well, that's what either liked. I liked the, I liked the synergy. Yeah, the combination of a number of things. And you can't get that with one thing on its own. It was really the combination. No, you've got to be a rock star.

The cocktail. And that's the point. You got to be a rock star. That's what I liked. A cocktail. If this is rock stars get that. And you're just tippling. Yes.

Yes. Yes. I used always wonder, you know, like, why? You know, do so many rock stars who, you know, you think they have everything and they do? You know, like all the women want them and the money and the adulation and the creativity and the outlet and blah, blah, blah. Why are they destroying themselves on drugs? Because the drugs they get access to are so good. That's what it is.

When you're a rock star, everyone wants to court favor with you. Yeah. It's like that. I still like that. I love your, yeah. I'm gonna put together a reel. It's just me going, yeah. To show how right I am about shit, okay?

Billy Idol, he goes, yeah. Every time. But that's what it is. It's like, yes, This will fuck up your life and your career and your erection and everything else. But these drugs are just so good. You just, you know, you just gave me the, you know, the crem to la creme. Because, at least drugs are just what, it's a, it's a, you know, it's a crapshoot.

You know, there's no standards. Whoever your dealer is, when I was a pot dealer, did anybody ever get a full ounce? No. I would get a pound, which is 16 ounces, and then split it evenly 17 ways. You know, there's no control here. So we don't know what's in the drugs. They're going to cut it with fuck whatever they want to make more. You know, if you're given, I don't know, an ounce of Coke, okay, now you're going to sell it to hundreds of people, right?

So you're going to split it into grams. It's sold by the grams, right? Yes, yes. Okay. So, you know, are you going to give them a pure gram if there's nobody to say, hey, what are you doing? No, you're going to cut it with baby laxative and whatever the fuck else anybody put in. How I managed to survive my brief two-year cocaine period, I don't know. It's such a bad drug. Yeah.

How long were you on it? I don't know. A few years in a way because, you know, gone and off. You know, like I was trying to get off drugs and then I would have a sort of a, you know. Memory of how good they are. Yes, and then, you know, but I would never, I never went back to heroin after a certain point.

Good for you. Definitely. I had a motorcycle accident. I was in, I was in hospital where I had one of those pain boxes, you know, and it was like, I had a 12-minute lockout

because otherwise I would have... So I thought about that. I thought, when would you ever be on something? I was as high as a kite in that, you know, with my leg all fucked up, but I was as high as a guy in that hospital room, you know, and I just thought, well, when are you ever really going to have stuff like that?

It's never, that's pure as that again, you know, so I really said to myself, that's it, man, you know, you've also looked, you'd fucked your leg up, you know. Well, this is, you know, this is time to start. So I did start sort of trying to ease off. It took me a long time, though, to really get control of myself. And of course, the AA people say there's no control and there probably isn't, but I think you have to sort of tell yourself. Well, how long would you say you've been really sober? Well, not really.

I mean, I'm in California sober, aren't I? Yeah. Because I did use to drink a little bit, and I do take, you know, pot and stuff, pot pills and stuff. So. Well, how long with that? Well, all I don't know, when did I? It's probably 20 years ago. was something I lost.

Did a line of... So what period are we talking about? What years are we talking about that the documentary refers to when you should be dead? Well, they're 70s, 80s, 90s, all those decades. Yeah.

Well, oh my. That is a lot of dying. Well, I'll say... Dying to live, yeah. Not that we need to give anybody any more reason not to do drugs, you just should not do drugs, kids. Take it from me. But one reason, a good reason not to do drugs is people who do a lot of drugs, when they then need a lot of drugs, like when they're in the hospital in pain from an accident, you can't

pump up the volume enough because they have built such a tolerance, having fun with the drugs. Well, that's what the doctor said to me, he said, Mr. Broad, I've got to ask you something. I mean, the pain medication, you're drinking it in, that's what you say. It's okay. I was a heroin addict. We're just worried there you won't get off it when we need you to go. And I said, I will, and I did, you know. Oh, you do?

Well, that's the perfect place to come off it is in the hospital, because, I mean, there's a nurse changing his sheets every hour. So if you're going to do it, that's the place to get off it. John Lennon quit Cold Turkey in the back of a limousine. You know that story? No, I didn't know that. Yeah, they got a limousine, and I think they drove across the country. Oh, I have read about that, but I didn't know that's what they were doing. Oh, so that's what they were doing when they did that 3,000 miles journey.

They ended up. It was like, where can we do this where no one will know we're doing it? except a limo driver because I'm assuming there was a lot of pull over I have to throw up right you just feel terrible but don't just throw up a lot when you're getting off heroin well it's I don't know about that it's more like it just you just you know whatever you can't get comfortable because you're just sweating it's more that you're sweating it's like nausea your your bones are hurt you know your whole body everything's hurting like the flu but like a terrible version of it and it goes on forever because it goes on it Yeah. It goes on forever.

It goes on forever. Yeah, it doesn't end. Even when it ends, it doesn't end. It's like, you know, you're still feeling, you're still jonesing somewhere. Somewhere you're jonesing for it, you know, even right now. Well, you know what Charlie Parker said about it. He said they can take it out of your body. They can't take it out of your mind.

Right, that's the point, yeah. It doesn't make me want to do it, though. No. And the next thing I think about is getting off it. That's so terrible that it keeps me from doing it. See, as much as we lament, and we certainly should and have every right to lament being 70, there is also the great part of it, which is you're just smarter. So you don't do these stupid things you did when you were younger.

And there's almost nothing as good as that. Yeah, just do all that stupid stuff was fun, yeah. It was fun, but like when you think about the pain it put you through. Well, exactly, yeah. And then you're like, now, I mean, I don't, you know, we have so little respect for the elderly in this country. It's just not our culture when it's like the culture of most of the rest of the world. Venerate the elders for obvious reasons. They've been here longer.

They learned more. Like, shut the fuck up for a second and learn something from somebody who has been down. the path before you. That eludes the geniuses that are Americans. But okay, in my personal life, it's just always a joy. It's just always a joy to come upon something where I go, oh, you know what? I've seen that before, and I saw how it fucked me before, and I'm just going to sidestep it like Dick Van Dyke the year he didn't trip over the Ottoman, you know? I'm just going to miss that one. And, uh, It's not as good as being 35, perhaps, but in some ways it's better.

Yeah, I've got to say, I mean, well, I'm obviously in the same boat. Would you go back to 35 if you could? Well, a part of me would like to, of course. Big part of me would like to. Who's fucking who? But there again, yeah, you know, I'm glad I've got here and I'm in a fairly good state. I'm enjoying what I do. Yeah.

You know, all that kind of stuff. I like the records of making and enjoy the band I'm playing with. It's fantastically good fun still. The songs don't get old. I don't know what it is. I would have thought by now that they don't. They don't seem to get old. I don't get old.

I mentioned before I used the iPod. One reason I used the iPod as opposed to, like, I mean, I have, you know, the Spotify. and the, it's like their philosophy is sort of, here's music you like, here's some other stuff you might like. And it's like, okay, I can, I want to be suggested to things, but basically I've been listening since 1968. I have thousands of songs already. I know what I like.

And what I like, the songs I like are, songs that would have been a hit in any decade. You know? I mean, there's stuff by the weekend that's only a couple of years old that definitely would have been a hit in the 80s, the 70s. I mean, it sounds just like Michael Jackson, the 90s, whatever. I mean, your stuff, like it stands the test at time. It's like, it's not an 80s song, it's just a good song.

Yeah. You know? That's what we were trying to do. Yeah. We weren't trying to do something for. that decade we were thinking obviously we were thinking of the moment but we were hoping that what we were doing was going to have you know it was going to resonate into the future especially so you have a long career or something what what what Spotify can't do or or what's the other one

yeah yeah anyway i'm 70 as well i know you know this so embarrassing to get stoned and not remember like basic words it's like you're You know, like forgetting the word for a hospital. You know that place you go when you're sick. But you can suggest a playlist to them, and all they can do is, like, put it together by picking songs that kind of sound alike to the algorithm that are kind of from the same period. Whereas I can put a song from the 60s, the 70s, the 80s, the 90s, and today.

Put them all in a row on a playlist, and they're from totally different decades, but you understand why they all fit together. It's a certain sound. Spotify can't do that. No, I suppose not. Pandora. That's who I was thinking. Pandora can't do it either.

And that's why I'm firing them tomorrow. Well, I'm glad you're still at it and your fans are. Do we have anything to plug before I set you back into the wild? Well, apart from... Yeah, we're in a plug. We're in showbulous. So I do have a documentary coming out. Well, I have a list.

I keep a list of things I want to see. This I want to see. You have participated in it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you were happy to do that. Yes, yeah. You were like, let me tell my own story as opposed to somebody else, right?

Well, yeah, although it was kind of good. We got different people like Tony James, my sort of Generation X... partner kind of thing. He did a lot of the punk sign of years and then you know it wasn't just me telling my story which was kind of quite good in a way you sort of got other people's that's how they all are. Well yeah exactly it's difficult for me to tell my own story exactly but you need both but it really else you see the Beatles anthology yeah exactly it's not just them okay it's them and John was not alive for it but you know they use archival tapes and stuff but

It's them on camera. But then it's also, you know, Neil and Mal and the people around them and the publicist and the record company. You need that sort of out of viewpoint in. That's what's kind of good about it, I think, is that you do get that. And at the same time, it's, yeah, it's my crazy story. It's something they only do for icons, and you are. Thank you. Cheers.

Cheers, Bill. You're singing the wrong thing and sort of signaling the wrong thing. I didn't want to... Are you kidding? You want to do you know a paradigm?