Club Random with Bill Maher - Deepak Chopra | Club Random with Bill Maher

Episode Date: March 13, 2023

Bill Maher and Deepak Chopra randomly riff on true identity, preparing for the end, being chased by the monster that is death, Mother Theresa’s crisis of faith, Bill and Deepak’s spiritual journeys, the morality of spiritual transcendence, how the placebo effect is real, and how we are all just playing a part. 

I feel like we met 30 years ago something because it was politically incorrect. Correct. You recognized the side. Isn't that yes and a stahsure for it? Is it a fucking sign there? But I love this. I love this too. But I mean, that had to be close to 30 years ago because that show went on in 1993. And you were like, where were you in 1993? You were like just becoming very of the moment. You were in the culture a lot. 93 was interesting year because that was on one hour on the Oprah Winfrey show.

Oprah, is that what started the whole? No, it didn't actually. I had to said, but that one particular one hour with Oprah, I sold 800,000 books in 24 hours. Wow. And I was on the New York Times number one for like 84 weeks. So let me ask you a question for you. I even said to Oprah, marry me in, you could be Oprah Chopra. Well, you said that to Oprah. That's hysterical.

Oh, for you. That worked better than the Oprah Uma joke Lenerman did at the Oscars. But so like 30 years, it's hard to believe, but it did happen. It is, and I'm now 76. Can you believe it? I can't. You look great. I feel now 76. Can you believe it? I can.

You look great. I feel good. But as friend Lebel was pointed out, when she was sitting there, like people only say, you look great when you're older, and it has to be straight. And it's never, it's assumed when you're 30. It's like, okay, so like 1993, you and I, unplugged incorrect. Of course, I can't remember any of this because, you know, all these clubs cigarettes. But I, so I don't remember what the conversation was like, you might remember it better.

But like the version of ourselves that was there in 1993, like what would you say about that whole concept of like evolution? I mean, this is, you're the perfect person to ask. It's like, are you, are you just a slightly different version of your 1993 self? Are you a completely, did you shed many snakes, skin? It's not that you're a snake. Like, tell me about what your thoughts on where we are as the river passes under our feet. It's a very interesting question because you know now at the age of 76 as I confront the final chapters even though I'm healthy but but you know, the last curtain will soon be fucking more. No, I'm kidding.

No, I mean, you don't look like you're in the final chapter. Well, in my tradition, Bill, first 25 years of life is education. Second 25 years is fame, fortune, and family, which I did. Third, 25 years is giving back, and the fourth is actually preparing for death and finding yourself questioning and answering your question about identity. I've come to the conclusion, there's no such thing.

I mean, you say, what is your identity? Fertilized egg, zygote, embryo, baby, toddler, teenager, young adult, mature adult, guy with Alzheimer's. Which one is you? I mean, you see, you're executed on a bad ending. I mean, first, you've seen fixated on a bad ending. No, no, I'm not because my tradition actually you prepare for a bad ending. I mean, first, you've seen fixated on a bad ending. No, no, I'm not, because my tradition, actually, you prepare for a happy ending.

A happy ending, that would be a good ending. And that happy ending is you have a party. That's what I want to die of. You have a massage power. You have a party. You celebrate. You say goodbye. And then you close your, no, no, you know when you're going to die.

Oh, you do. You close your, I, no, you know when you're going to die. Oh, you do. You don't. I do. You do? Well, of course. I've lined to die in meditation. When you're, you know how old you're going to be when you're going to be? Yeah, but I'm not telling you.

You know, yeah, how do you think you know? Because I'm set of aware. Because you're self-aware. You know, I could take offense at this kind of fight, because I like you. I look forward to this chapter. I know the part of my tradition for thousands of years. No, the part I could take offensive. I just the part about I know things you don't know. I have powers of knowing.

No, no, no, no, no, I'm sorry, Deepak. I love you. But like you don't know things I could not possibly know. I know the statistical likelihood of events. That's different than knowing. I know that too. I can read that. That's how we base everything. Vision, mathematics. You know what year you're going to die and you fucking don't. You could die leaving this room. Okay. Or you could die in 30 years. I'm not yet far you. I'm just here to say that I'm in my final chapter. And I'm looking forward to this phase of my life.

Okay. Look, I know you're probably not like caring about this, but maybe you would more if you were single. It matters more perhaps than, but there's nothing about you. I just saw you. I haven't seen you in all these years. I saw you standing over there. You were back with me when I first walked in and I was like, where's Deepak? Because I didn't think that was you because you just don't look old. You don't move old.

You don't have an old energy about you. So until you do, let's not shovel dirt on the grave. I mean, look, death is always looming. I agree, I'm 67 is always looming. I agree. I'm 67. That's not young. There's been a lot of death around me lately. People I know who've died.

So it's been on my mind and then look, my four quarters of life may be different than yours. Giving back, I think, is great. The fourth one, I'm more until like 75, you know, I think that's when I'm going to start with the Viagra. So, you know, like I'm trying to play the ball. I know, but, but when I look at death, and I do, you know, yes, you're right. When you're our age, you are aware of a monster chasing you. Maybe you don't look at it as a monster. I do because I don't want to die,

because I'm having a good time. But... It all has to do with identity. Meaning, what dies? What dies? I mean, what dies when your body dies? So, right, because you believe that the spirit is living on.

I believe that there's a fundamental reality that transcends what we call the body and the mind and the experience of this. And this is obviously a lucid dream. It's not even real. If I ask you what happened to your childhood, you'd say it's a dream. But what If I ask you what happened to your childhood, you'd say it's a dream. But if I ask you what happened to this morning, it's a dream. By the time you hear these words, they don't exist. So the whole thing is a dream. I mean this is a dream. We can shine, the German philosopher.

He said, our life is a dream. Once in a while, we wake up enough to know that we are dreaming So this fourth chapter is about waking up from the dream. I would say two shrinks there one and I mean this in a very Complementary way, but I don't know I don't know what the hell you're talking about because I don't know. This thing about this might clarify things for you, but if you took something like say, you don't do any drugs. Silo, Sibon. So, the Sibon. Yeah.

Are you a fan? I'm the biggest promoter of psychedelics in the world today. Promoter, I mean, you're holding? No, no, no, no. I'm the scientific research and the public awareness of the value of psychedelics. Let's open a store together. Let's open a store and I

support the research. Because you're also a capitalist. Let's not lie. I mean, how many books have you written? Ninety something. Ninety something? Ninety. Yeah. Holy shit from Shionoa. That's a lot of books. That's like since since what year? Well, what year was it because it's got to be like two a year? 1980 was my first. Wow. This is like Elvis used to put out albums like this like Just a lot of material. But let's talk about you're getting high Would you like some? No, not right now. I'm already so I'm so in with life Because it's just a dream. It's a dream.

Life is just a dream. You know, that thing to do. You know, when I was 17, just it was a very good year. It was the most amazing year because I had just in India, you enter medical school after two years of pre-med, not four years. So I was only 17. I joined this very prestigious school funded by capitalist Rockefeller and American institutions. And we had Harvard professors. And so my first year of medical school, I was asked to participate in an experiment with controls.

So, students from Harvard, students from my class, and we all took LSE, twice. So, my first experience at the age of 17 was anxiety, because the same question came up. What is life all about? Is it a dream? Am I in a lucid dream in a vivid now? And I was anxious, but then I tried it again. And this time, and this really altered my entire life, this time what happened is they had subjects under experiment, taking LSD, were doing different things, you know,

listening to music, dancing, smoking, maybe other stuff. I was assigned to look at a poster of Mother Teresa. And this is remember the year is 1971. And I'm looking at this poster. Her worked in India. Right? Mother Teresa was in it. Yeah, yeah. She was in India. I mean, she wasn't Indian, but that's where she heard. That's just, yeah. And the rumor, the gossip, was that she kissed children who had leprosy and licked their wounds and they would be healed. Now, I didn't believe any of that,

but looking at the poster and under the influence of LSD, I had the most intense experience of compassion. And it changed my entire trajectory of life. I wanted to be a healer and a compassionate doctor. Just some hearing this story. Just some hearing about her doing. Watching the poster and being under the influence of LSD. But also knowing that she had licked these people's feet. Of course. Now you will say, no, 71, we are in 2023. So this is all 50 years over half a century. Now we know epigenetically, epigenetically that emotions, and this has been my life's

work, that emotions influence everything in their body. We pretend to be rational creatures, we are bristling with emotion. We are full of rage, anger, resentment, guilt, depression, but we also have access to the opposite. And there's biological function. So, your biology changes, your brain changes, every time we do. Do you ever meet mother to reason? Once. You did. You actually met after this. After this. And what did you say to her? You say I'm a huge fan Your feet looking change my life. Do you know?

Wondlicking won't licking right anyway, can like feet the pope does that? Okay, won't look yeah That is some serious Compassion, but did you know this about my sister? first of all, when she died, she only, she looked at two possessions. She had a blanket and a bucket. And Biden tried to tax the bucket. No, I don't know why. California would, but not. The other thing is, you know that she had a crisis of faith. Of course, if you don't have a crisis, you're not human. Okay, but do you remember what year that was? Just before she died. When did it work? Before she died. I thought it was something like 79, but I could be wrong. No, I think later than that. Listen, Jesus had a crisis of faith.

Who? The guy who started the whole thing. The whole thing. What do you mean, Starr? He started a joke. No, actually, there are three pivotal moments in his life, which I find very interesting. The first is, he falters when he's carrying the cross. And Joseph of... Well, he tripped. He tripped so hard ever. He tripped. Joseph of Arimathea tries to help him and he says, no, I must bear my own cross. Okay, number one, number two. Where are we at the phrase? He has a crisis of faith when he says, why did you desert me? Okay, that's all it is. And number three, forgive them for they know not what they do. They do. Those three are very pivotal moments in a person's existential dark night of the soul.

That's interesting. First of all, the second one you cite is only in one of the gospels. It doesn't matter. We don't even all think the gospels. The whole thing doesn't matter because it's all a fable. But everything is a fable. Oh, jeez. Your job is actually. I'm having a crisis of faith right now. No, but Mother Teresa, so I thought it was so interesting. Whatever year it was, Mother Teresa, who by the time was super famous, I was like the ultimate saint on earth, and she has this crisis of faith. Oh, no, no, I know what it was. After she died, she left a very specific request.

Do not print my letters. The second she got her letters. And that's what we found. That's what it was. We found out that when she did die, she had a crisis of faith. There was a year, she was just like drunk, dialing old, boyfriends. She started stripping under the name of original... I don't believe that.

No, it's a joke. You stepped it up. Okay, so let me ask you this, because you seem to know a lot about Jesus. I've written three books about Jesus. Well, two about Jesus. But not as a Christian. Well, I've written books on Muhammad, Jesus. But you're not a Christian all the prophets of the Old Testament and all the You know luminaries in spirituality through the ages answer the question council. You're not a Christian though

I don't think Jesus was a Christian. He wasn't he was a Jew. We know that okay, so what do you mean? The question why am I I? Yes or no sir sir. I don't belong to any religious institution. That would have been. Dogma, or I think what you call religious morality, is just jealousy with a hero. It's the domain of cunning hypocrites. But there is a certain kind of morality that comes from authentic experience of transcendence,

and there's an emergence of Platonic values like truth, goodness, beauty, harmony, love, compassion, joy, empathy, equanimity, and the loss of the fear of death. That is the essential spiritual experience. Platonic values. Now that I will stop the fear of death. That's a nice thing. I'm going to sign on to that one. Well, the ultimate fear of fear is set up that job.

And let's see. It is not fearing death, right? That's it. Because I don't think I'll ever get there. Like I said, I see it as a monster that's chasing me. And some people's way to deal with that is to not be afraid of the monster anymore. My way to deal with it is running.

Yeah, but it comes up point and you will not be able to run. So I hear it, but it's talking to you. I know, but the only uncertainty is the method of execution and the length of reprieve. You're right. But your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day, your own day stories I'm telling you. One of Mother Teresa, but the other one is when I was six and a half. My father was in England and I was with my grandfather and my grandmother, seven years of age. My little brother then was four and a half years of age. He later became the dean of education at Harvard Medical School, my younger brother.

So one night we get a telegram. That's what your brother is. Your brother is the Dean of Harvard. He was the Dean of Education for Harvard Medical School. Wow. Until you and your brother agree on all this because he seems to be more now agrees with me. He now agrees with you a little bit.

I will. So listen to the story. I will. We get a telegram that my father has been inducted into the Royal College of Physicians, which by the way I was recently also. Very prestigious. So my grandfather, who is an army sergeant from the first world war. Really? Yeah. He climbs up, goes up to the rooftop, fires a gun into the sky, to celebrate that was his thing. Has one day, has a worth of energy. Me and my brother, to see a movie, Ali Baba and the 40 Thieves. Only problem. And the 40 Thieves, then it takes us to

Carnival, then it takes us to a restaurant. He's so happy and excited. And in the middle of the night, he dies. And my memory is I am being carried by the servants to a neighbor's house. And I can hear the whaling of women in the house, grandparents, et cetera, grandmother. Next day, he's taken to cremation. His ashes are brought in a jar about this big and one my uncle says, what's the human being? Yesterday he was with

these kids celebrating and now he's a bunch of ashes. Wow. And I had my first existential crisis. Yeah. Okay. And my brother started to lose his skin. And what? My grandparents still came. They started peeling off like a snake skin. What? Yeah. And he had bleeding scars. And they took him to every doctor.

Nobody could diagnose. Till some local healer said, he's missing his parents. He's feeling vulnerable and as soon as his parents come back he'll be fine. And so it happened. So in retrospect that was my body medicine. It's certainly I certainly believe in the mind body connection. I'm always preaching people if you don't you can't wiggle your toes. Correct. Do anything. Yes, but, but way further than that, I believe that medicine, the way we practice medicine in America. It's horrible. I'm a major critic.

Maybe that's something I think where we're very aligned. Business. It's a business. I mean, not that there aren't good doctors and thank God that they have a lot of things that they do have that I hope I will never have to avail myself of, but Western medicine is best at like, it does nothing to keep you healthy. It's great at the last 11th hour of saving you from dying that day and it doesn't prolong life. It prolongs the misery. Right, it very often does.

And they do not take into account what you're talking about, the mind body connection. And I predict in the years to come, the mind-body connection will be seen as a major part of diagnosing somebody. Instead of just looking at a chart, the way Western medicine does it, if they can't quantify it on a number, on a blood test, now blood is important, we see what's in your body, but it's not the whole story. And it's not everything is on that blood chart. The same is not everything that an athlete does is in your body, but it's not the whole story and it's not everything. It's on that blood chart The same is not everything that an athlete does is in the box score. There's a lot of different ways to win a game Wait, that's Bob Cosfus. It's next no, but

Yeah, I think we could agree on that that the mind can has And the unconscious the unconscious, the unconscious. I've, just the last year or so, I must say, I feel like I'm much more aware of the tricks my unconscious is sometimes playing on me, or the connection between my conscious and unconscious. In a way, I never was earlier in life. March's National Nutrition Month,

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as a physician, I told a patient, I said, Mr. Smith, I was looking at a chart, I'm very sorry to tell you, but you have cancer. As soon as I said that, I saw his body language change. No kidding. His face crumpled. I could bet his blood pressure has gone up. I could guess that his platelets were sticky, that his body was inflamed, that his adrenaline

was high and his cortisol was high. Yeah, well you just told the dude he's dying. Yeah. Then the next second I realized I was reading the wrong chart. Ah! Okay. So I said, I'm really sorry, but this isn't futile. And immediately he changed.

Right. Like this. So his biology shifted from this to this, Yes. With one sentence, a one word word cancer. Yes, absolutely. The Nocebo effect. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

Well, I think what a lot of people don't realize is that before like 200 years ago, what they only had was the placebo effect mostly because they didn't know. No, dismiss it. The placebo, it's not something to be dismissed. No, I'm backing up with this. There's a biological process. I'm saying 200 years ago, they didn't have antibiotics. They didn't know shit.

If the doctor, this crazy person said, okay, I'm going to put these worms up your ass and it's going to help. People actually thought it did. Some did. Some did. Well, I'm telling you, that it was the main way of curing shit was just having the patient think what they were doing. You have to ask yourself what's the biological mechanism, right? If you're a serious scientist,

you have to ask these 30% of people respond to placebo's what's the biological mechanism. So this is what I found out earlier. You know, I've been at this game for a long time now. Yes. So if you give a placebo, which is supposed to be an analgesic to a patient, and you say, this is a relief you're paying, but before that, you give them something called Narcan, which is a narcotic antagonist. Sure. They don't get the relief. Right. So they're actually making opines when they believe. Okay. So they're going to get relief of pain. But the placebo acts not just in pain, it acts in other diseases. So there's a biological mechanism that converts an emotion into a molecule and that was my field was my entire field was

neuroendocrinolids. Now that's so interesting and I'm down. And speaking of conversion, let me ask you this, master. May I go in the 30 years ago, you called me Swami. Swami? Is that bad? No, it's okay. These days, I thought it was a term of honor. Yeah, but you have to have the necessary uniform.

You do? Like the pope has the uniform. Oh really? Swami's have uniforms too. All right. Well, I'll just call you a master. So, master, is it too late for me? I mean, I would think that of all the people, you know,

I would be the hardest one. Like, they can't hypnotize me. Like some people can't be hypnotized. I've wanted to be hypnotized. And just some people just have a mind that, I don't know, just works differently. So, you know, I would like to get over this, you know, fear of death and stuff.

Do you think that there is hope? The way you're looking. I don't like the word hope. Hope implies despair. You have to be independent of both hope and despair and you will lose your fear of death if you find out your true identity. I'm lost already. You have my true identity. Yeah, I'm a Clark Kent. What is it? What? That's my idea. Everyone is it. Everyone is looking to me. Like, I might mean Superman. Bill Mar. Yes. Is a fictional character in a collective dreamscape.

Get over it. Get over the idea of the Bill Mar. Wow. It's real. So, you know, a fictional character in a collective dreamscape dies. It's not a big deal. You have to find out who is pretending to be Bill Mar.

Okay, so let's say I sign on to this. Yeah. How does it actually help me to think of myself as a fictional character? Because then you say who's the real character? I don't know, but can we sell the fictional one to Pixar? Yeah, you can do anything with the fictional one. I just get that.

I see, air you, D tight man. I think could be okay. Maybe not the biggest Marvel universe chapter. The world's the stage where every man must play a part and mind a sad one. That's what he says in the merchandise, right? And Graciano says, let me play the fool. Louis Muth and laughter, let all wrinkles come and let my liver, rather heat with wine, then my heart groan with modifying groans. Wow, you know your Shakespeare, but what is that to do with what we were talking about? I don't care. Because you're right now playing the part of Bill Ngua. Oh, why? I'm playing the part. You're God in drag. Okay, basically. Maybe. I'm playing the part. You are God in drag.

Okay. Basically. Maybe. God in drag. That was something that was a phrase coined by your friend, Timothy Liery's best friend, Richard Alba. You asked me about that chair. That's why I'm Timothy Liery.

That's why. He was at a Christmas party of mine in 1992 and he burned a hole in the chair accidentally with a cigarette. And so Weinstein's there too. No, no, just a cigarette. No, and then he signed, we knew the chair was useless. So we signed it. Yeah, it's awesome. It's one of my favorite pieces. So the word that we are all God and drag was that's great. That phrase was used by Timothy Diaries. Well, good. I need to see a creature output. No, don't give me credit.

Oh, for, for, for giving him credit for that. Oh, sure. I mean, I got a drag, not a great phrase. But I don't know if that really is me. But let's say I'm playing this character, which is, might say a little bit crushing because my whole life is what I'm trying to do. And I feel like I've reached a pinnacle of it, what's doing what I'm doing right now on

this podcast is be the opposite of that for a world that was drowning in bullshit and television, which was also fairly well drowning in people who are just phony. I mean, it's just part of the job. But I was like, can you be authentically yourself, and you're telling me, no, we're all phony. We're all, but someone more authentic phony than others. Don't think I'm better at it, yeah. But there may be truth in that.

I mean, I would certainly say that everyone lies, even people, yeah, do you think you lie to themselves? To themselves. Yeah. But have you mastered not doing it? Or are you still doing it? I'm aware of it. You're aware of all the lies you tell yourself.

I am aware of what I say. You ever take yourself and go, yeah, I absolutely. You do. Yeah. And then you get mad at yourself? No. I just say maybe, next time, put the pause button before you speak. Oh, you say things tumble out of your mouth

that you regret? Once in a while, let's say, press the pause button, watch your reaction to reaction. But if you just watch your reaction to reaction, it kind of... But you don't see a difference between you at 30 Five I don't know of course. I see I used to fight and argue and raise debates and be defensive and attack people You did of course and that's what you

You're going to medical school Okay, but then once you started becoming the person we know as the master of the guru, I never called myself a guru. If you ask me be a node. That is a coincidence right but that's clever. Gee you are I think the great that's kind of that's kind of cool. Who wrote that? That's Deepak Chopra. You did? Yeah God bless. Deepak, after all these years. Okay, so, Scientology, that's my other, I could either go your way, I'm making a decision, no, probably over the weekend.

I might take all week. I've got some brochures, I've got your people, and I've got the Scientology. I'm kind of on the fence now, and this is a hypothetical. Yes, hypothetically come to a week with me on something called the longevity retreats since you're so fearful of death. Really?

And don't cure me. And how much is it? There are two things that happen. One is you lose your fear of death. The second thing is you will be a healthier person at the end of it. Really? Yeah. Seriously. Have you been circumcised? No, that's for you guys. No, it was just, every time I pick up these scissors, I feel like I should do a service for the, you're not circumcised. Oh my God, It's so disgusting. I don't know how you go. Actually, I'm on a campaign right now globally

to help eliminate the cruel custom of fetal female general mutated. Well, that is hard. That is happening course. You know, of course. So at this moment we'll make global campaign. You're gonna make a a lot of the usual social networks very angry with that, because that becomes a religious thing. It's a cultural thing which is outmoded. It's not a culture thing based on... It's not religious. There's no religious...

Well, you can't separate... Cultural Islam from religiousism. All religion... All religion is cultural mythology. Yes, but that religion is more fundamentalist. In other words, you make a friend, you fundamentalist, in Hindus, you can find them. You can find them, but numbers matter.

Numbers matter. You cannot find as many fundamentalists. There are, I think, 10 countries that could be wrong. That's the last time I read it, they have Islamic in the name of the country, like the Islamic Republic of Iran. That's the last time I read it, who's they have Islamic in the name of the country, like the Islamic Republic of Iran. That's very different. You cannot imagine America as off the track

as we've gotten being called the Christian Republic of America, although that is exactly what Marjorie Taylor Green wants. Yeah, well, that's disgusting, but I can tell you something. I have spent a lot of time in Islamic countries, in the Middle East, in Saudi, I have even been to Iran, Turkey, and I think sometimes we give a very bad rap to the majority of people who are actually very reflective. I recently was in Dubai and went to meet the minister of AI.

And the minister of what? Artificial intelligence because I've been there. Dubai. Dubai. And so I go to minister of that. They have a minister of AI, they have a minister of tolerance, they have a minister of happiness, and they have a minister of forgiveness in Dubai. Oh, Mr. Okay, so I listen to this, I go to his office and the reason I'm visiting him, I've created an AI chatbot. You did? I did. To eliminate or actually help people with suicide ideation. So we have a chat bot. I have a non-profit organization. The robot talks you out of it? Robot talks to you and teenagers are more comfortable talking to the robot because they don't feel judged. Fuck it, I...

Okay. And it has intervened in 6,000 suicide alliances. Really? It's talking to 20 million people simultaneously. Wow. And now we are creating cryptocurrency to pay for it for people who can't afford it even for counseling. So I went to the minister of AI in Dubai, said, you know, this is a problem everywhere. It's not that depression is everywhere.

It's the number one pandemic is not is not COVID-19. The number one pandemic in the world today is mental illness and depression and every 42nd somebody is dying. So I go to his office and you know he's wearing the traditional Arab dress and his assistant has a hijab and she leaves and then he closes the door is closed. He says, we'll talk about what you've come for. And I'd come to for his help to create the chatbot in Arabic suicide prevention. And so before we start that conversation, he said, Dr. Joghra, may I ask you a question?

We'll talk about the AI later. I said, sure, he said, why do we exist? I'm perpetually surprised that we exist. Then he asked me about pieces. I have a place in the desert. Will you come tonight? So we can watch the stars and at least be one destruct and in bafflement of our existence. If you are not perpetually surprised by your existence, you don't even deserve to exist. So this was the conversation.

One hour went by, his assistant came, she said, you have five other appointments, he says, cancel them. I'm enjoying this conversation. And the end, he says, so what do you want? I said, I want to create an AI for his side prevention. He says, done. Like this.

I have to tell you, like, your life is so different than mine. I have to like just stand back and all a little bit because my life is really so provincial and I do the same things. I think that I like, they're just not like, like inventing shit and then going to Dubai and talking to the minister and, you know, I just don't have this life. And at 76, really, know, look at it and to be like, like it seems like nothing is slowing you down. So I don't know, I don't know if your secret is you.

I believe the secret as joy is the only measure of a good life. I know, but what get, but it's that's why I start every day. Joyful energetic body, love and compassion with the heart, clear mind and lightness of being. All right. But I don't know, there's like the things that give me joy.

And, you know, I don't. As long as I'm guilty about them. I'm not guilty at all. Then you're all saying, oh, good. Oh, thank God. Oh, I'm going to enjoy this course because I thought I was going to have to like judge my whole life. Pills is, that's the Judeo Christian. Yeah, I'm not guilty at all

No, I have no it made so much money I mean what I say no many institutions make money on confession. We all have regrets I mean life is I said this a million times But when people give these interviews and they very often say, no regrets. And I think, who the fuck are you? You can't be human. Every day is a regret. Of some, there's not one day that goes by that I don't think, oh, I wish I'd put the T-Catel on five minutes ago, or whatever it is. Like, who walks through life, no regrets? And I'm still having regrets. And I, you know, so, yeah, I have lots of things that, you know, I was like, honestly, but yeah, you can read about the

difference in something that happened in the dreamscape. You don't, do you remember what you were doing last Thursday at five o'clock in the evening? Do you even remember what you were concerned about? Yes, I do. And I remember things that I would have rather have done differently when I was younger that were sometimes schmuckier or selfish. There's something, nothing horrible, but like we all just are going through life.

And especially when we're young, we're scared and it's like, oh, is this going to take my slot or whatever it is? So you know, you maybe have sharp elbows then you would like. You're not as accomplished in life. You don't have all that anxiety off your shoulders about, I'm like, I'm going to be a success or not. And I know you're looking at me like, oh, these are all ridiculous concerns.

I'm sorry, I'm a human. Okay, these are my concerns. Most humans have become biological robots, triggered by people in circumstances into predictable outcomes. And so there's no self-awareness and there's guilt and there's shame and there's humiliation and there's hostility and there's anger and there's war and there's terrorism and there's eco-destruction and there's extinction of species and poison in the food chain. It is in insane society. I know. It's totally insane. And if you don't agree that it's insane, then you're declaring your own insanity. Look, a quick furniture me up. I take your point. Oh, okay, I'm

forgetting to laugh. So like, what about your, you're married, right? Yes. We say it. Yeah, it's like, like, it's crazy not to be. No, no, I'm married, but I don't know the secret of marriage. I didn't ask, but I'd love to know not that I'm going to use it. No, you're not getting married. So, I'm okay with that too. Yeah, you look at me. I'm too for too.

So, I think first of all, get rid of the notion that there is anything such as lifelong romantic infatuation. This one, this is a hill I will die on. This is a hill I will die on arguing with you, because I think that could not be more the opposite of how I think. It's nothing like that. Maybe it's nothing for you.

Infatuated intoxicated experience that you have, that you call love is not love. I know, but it sure feels good when you have it. Yeah, well, I will chase that drug until the monster gets me. Yeah, but you chase alcohol till the monster gets you too. Alcohol is not love. How can you compare them? Anything that you become dependent on limits your freedom? So let me say this little story. So whatever is going to complete that sentence,

the secret of a happy marriage is love each other irrespective and no judgment. Well, you know, what you said was don't expect it to be romantic all the way through, you know, what you said was, don't expect it to be romantic all the way through, which is exactly what happens in marriage and I will die on that, of avoiding that. Yes. And I won't go into any more detail than that,

but I hear you. That is much more than a romantic infatuation. Love is absolute. Well, there's something in between infatuation. Love is absolute. Well, there's something in between infatuation and the kind of love that takes place in a stale, sexless match. Sorry, that's not a bad idea. We doesn't have to be still as exless. It's just a joke. It's a turn of the phrase. Let me just see. You've got this attitude that some things are sacred and some things are profane and some things are carnal and some things are spiritual when it's all one thing. Now that is now that certainly is

a kind of reflection of a basic philosophy that goes back to many ancient philosophers of oneness that we somehow achieve happiness but life is all about the the diurnal and it's all about the duel Everything is divided and that's why you can have dual and non-dual like the same time That's why we're unhappy because there's always this tension like marriage is a perfect example the tension in all of life with people Believe me. I've lived with this tension and tried to deal with it many different ways is between excitement and security At first you have excitement and it's fantastic. Then after a while, that is not so exciting, but you have security with someone.

I mean, trust me, I've gone back and forth on this my whole life. It's such a thing of security, the search for insecurity. It's the biggest buzz on the internet. That's what I like that one. The biggest cause of insecurity is the search for security. Well, I mean security, you know, security.

That's not fair. You know, the real excitement in life is when you don't anticipate, don't regret, don't resist, go with the flow. So listen to this. No resistance to existence. Never mind. I'll do my call. Go, go, go ahead. I want to plug your

things. Because I have to. No, I want to. Because I know it's all about, you know, making it. We're all in a dream. But as long as we're in the dream, I might be making might probably making money. Right. You might as well upgrade the dream. Exactly, you can upgrade it. I mean, there's nice dreams. But you know, some people like that. There's like, there's real baller dreams. Yeah, but some people like horror movies too. Right.

It's all imaginative. Nobody likes poverty, and you, I mean, I bet you your worth, if you have 93 books, you must, you must be worth it. If you know how much it was, then it's not enough. And you don't? I don't care. You don you know how much it was, then it's not enough. And you don't? I don't care. You don't know how much your worth?

I don't look to people. People say I'm worth a lot. Come on. I'm saying it. Well, then that's, you couldn't even put a ballpark number on it. No, because I have watched people look at the stock market and their net worth. And they totally get confused with net worth confused with self worth. I just wrote a book called Abundance Based on a lyric by Bob Marley who said

some people are so poor all they have is money. I never heard that. Some people are so poor all they have is money. That's genius. That's so funny. Yeah. Well, deep-hags episodes Saturday, April 1st at the... Oh, no, this is me. You're not going to be at the Paramount Theatre April 1st in Seattle. If we are, we're fucked because we're not going to do the act together. That's me, April 1st at the Paramount Theatre. Sunday, April 2nd. And there are only in Jnitscher, Cont Holland-Portland, I love these cities.

And the 22nd of April at the theater at the MGM National Harbor, Washington, DC, oh, that's gonna be good. Deepak, April 23rd, oh no, it's just me again, April 23rd at the Durham Performing Arts Center. That is me, right? Deep Pax. Wait. Maybe we should exchange roles. Well, don't you become the extension of Deep Pax in Durham. You're not going to Durham, are you? I said, you've become the saint. I'll be the sinner for her day.

Oh, I also wanted to mention speaking of like religion and there's this podcast my friend Barry Weiss is free press people put out called the which trials of JK Rowling. I would recommend it highly and I is a recommend podcast, but what happened to her is pretty amazing. So, I wouldn't say anymore in spoiler, but it's one of my favorites. Years ago, on politically incorrect, I tried to do a sketch called Harry Pothet. And they wouldn't let us do it. We had a screaming match with the sensors at ABC. This was 1997.

And just a sketch called Harry Pothet was too touchy for them. That's where they were with marijuana in 1997. So the idea that, you know, we don't change, that the country doesn't change, that there's no progress, is so insane to me. And that's what I feel like so many people, so many of the woke, they so badly want to be warriors, social justice warriors, that when things have progressed so much, they feel like they're cheated out of being there to like kill that terrible evil injustice. And it's like a lot of the injustice is not all of them,

of course, we still have a lot of work to do. You know, we've slayed some dragons and they don't want to admit that. I don't know why I'm telling you this, but where are you on like woke shit? You know, everybody's doing the best they can from the level of awareness. Well, that sounds like a backhanded insult, and I sign on to it. Yes, everyone's doing as good as they can with what they know. Even Putin.

Yeah. Even Putin. Yeah. Even Putin. My thing on Putin is, if I was a Freudian analyst, he's probably impotent, and he's taking his rage out. Well, at least Freud would say, I mean, if Freud would say, say he stuck in the first chakra. I think he stuck in the KGB. Maybe I can't think on your level, but I think there's something to being indoctrinated from a young age into a system as he was with the KGB.

I've been to the Soviet Union many times. I was friendly with Krushchev in the days when it was still Soviet Union. Krushchev. Krushchev. Not so, so what? No, not Krushchev. No, sorry. Who am I saying?

He just passed away. Gorbachev. Star one. Gorbachev. Gorbachev. I was close to Gorbachev. And I could say that. Yeah. I could say that Gorbachev. I was close to Gorbachev. And I could see that.

Yeah. Yeah. And in those days, Ruma had it that, you know, when Ted Turner and Jane Fonda were starting CNN. Well, Jane. Well, Jane and Ted did not start CNN together. I loved what it was. But all due respect.

They were trying to not have anything to do with starting CNN. Okay. Ted did not start seeing End Together. I loved him. What an adorably. My tall do respect. He did. But they were traveling. They did not have any of the doers starting seeing it. OK, but they were traveling together. And Roma was gossip, local gossip was that Putin was there so far every time. And he was actually working for the KGB even then. Oh my god. Where was this?

In the Soviet Union, the Gorbachev, Putin. So Ted Turner was in Moscow to set up CNN. CNN. And Putin was flying. That was the gossip. Oh my God. That has to be true. I love it.

Although he was saying. There are photographs of apparently of him. But it's show for uniform. It could have happened, but he wasn't stationed in Moscow. He was the Berlin. The reason why he rose so fast is he had the plum KGB assignment, which is Berlin. Berlin was always the flashpoint in the Cold War. Okay. The most important city between East and West. Yeah, I'm just saying these were rumors. I know. Okay. So tell me, well, I thought I had things to plug for you. I'm happy to do it. So

there's anything you ever do. I'm a new book. But what is it? It's called you. Tell me, living in the light yoga for civilization. Show it to me. Read it to me, master. No, it's really to you. No. But I mean, and your books sell all over the world, right? Yeah. In many languages. Over 50 languages. Wow. Living in the light. How do, now, how is it possible that after 92 books, you hadn't used that title yet? It seems like it would have been like third in line, living in the light. It's like, I wasn't prepared to write about what I wasn't totally experiencing. Well, that's vague. What are you saying?

I'm living in the limes right now. But haven't you been living in it for a long time? No, I've been talking about it. Really? You graduated fourth stage of life. But that's what Scientology has. Levels. I'm on Th and level seven. I mean, it's, well, one more and I'm on the bridge to total freedom.

You know this about Scientology? You know what Scientology, I don't know them well, but what they do do is, I believe they access your so-called subconscious mind and then they program you basically. They do a lot of scary things. Well, the first thing they do is get a lot dirt on you. Yeah. I mean, if you ever are tempted to think human beings are bright,

just remember, these people voluntarily sit down. And sometimes these are movie stars who have a lot to hide. You know, we know who the movie star is, I entail you so. They voluntarily went on camera and said the worst things about them, their own selves and what they've done and who they are. And it's a form of beneficiary. You can write. You couldn't go to your past and do this. You're giving them, you're giving them the gift of blackmail material on you. Volunteerly. I mean, that had, you know, built bottom line this, the world is insane.

The world is insane. Well, of course, but, and we're all sleepwalking to extinction right now. We all want. Sleepwalking to extinction. Because of the environment, you mean? Climate change. Right.

Nuclear weapons, cyber warfare. Yes. Oh, and what the phones are doing. And what the phones are doing to the minds of the kids. Yeah. And lack of a, oh yeah, no, we are definitely. Definitely. The human species was an interesting experiment. Yes, but it could have, it's feeling.

Well, I mean, homo sapiens, which I don't know if folks realize how recent we are, really, homo sapiens, which I don't know if folks realize how recent we are really homo sapiens Only a couple hundred thousand years 200,000 years. Well, that's a couple hundred thousand. Yeah, homo sapiens But up until 30,000 years ago They were eight different kinds of humans exactly. We killed them all off and we're now and we're we've killed off most of the animals Wherever we go the fossil record chose one whenever when humans came out of Africa and they were started to populate. We're the cancer.

We're cancer. We're pesticides. We go to we plunder. Right. So what is the answer to this master extinction? No, no, the that's what we're the answer to. The human answer to avoiding extinction. What is the answer to that?

Yeah, look at you that's living in the life yoga for civilization honestly. Oh, so the answer is your book Yeah, yeah book is just one iteration With some traditions for thousands of years. I mean, I remember my friend Salman Rushdie, you know, so yeah, my time was He's the greatest. Yeah. So sorry about what has happened. Yeah, but you can't keep a good man down because he's not he's better. I wonder about this kind of ways. Is he is he able to speak and all that? I'm reading his latest book by the way. Yes, he's he's he's writing. He's he's not mor he's, you know, it's a guy who wasn't even alive when the book was written.

Well, I mean, you know, it's about religion. We're talking about stuff that's not about religion. It is about religion. It's about it. It's about fanatism. Well, that's from a religion. Why do you have to deny that religion is a thing and it's a thing in this it's a this remains religious ideology. Okay, so man, there's religious experience. But if I say someone rushed, he got stabbed by this guy, who's just a nut job. He's basically but it but you cannot deny that religion is in the mix here that is germane to the

discussion. Religion is not knowledge of all some what nuts it's all a dream. But the thing that sent this borderline personality over the edge with the fucking knife in this hand was religion because he believed a certain set of bad ideas. That's what religion is. Oh, by the way, that's in lack of education, cultural ignorance of other cultures. It's very complex. It is complex and you're throwing it all into one big soup as if they all have equal weight

and are of equal importance. No, they don't have equal weight. We have to have some kind of judgment, but on the other hand, you will never get rid of ignorance. No, but we fight it. you will never get rid of ignorance. Other than that. No, but we fight it. And we have fight with you.

We have fight with you, folks. No, no, no, no. Okay, let me ask you this on a practical level. You don't fight doctors, you bring in the light. Okay, well speaking of darkness and not bringing in the light, women who have a burq over their head, how about that for not getting some fucking light in your darkness?

Again, if you actually, you know, I grew up, I just, let me just say, the question. I grew up in cultural environments where women were barca, women were bills, women had addresses. Yes. And they are, if you look at some of the cultural nuances that go with that, it's extraordinary. The veil is supposed to actually hide the beauty of divine feminine. Okay. Whatever. And it's part that people write poetry about it. Okay. So my question to you, sir, is you're like, it's all the same. This is to me an evil in the world.

It's all the same. This is to me an evil in the world. They're forced to wear like especially the ones you see in Africa But anything that is like a full head to toe and I've certainly read accounts from women who have escaped from that and they talk about it And they said you have no idea how dehumanizing This can be because you can't hear people you can't you can barely see out they can't see you It is a way to rob human being of the most basic humanity. The idea that progressives have a problem with this issue about Islamophobia as opposed to look, you would stand with the woman under that thing or you stand with the people oppressing her. It's not a giant lift to figure this one out.

So my question to you is, that goes on in the world now, a lot of women are forced to wear stuff like that, and I do mean forced, even if they're brainwashing, to thinking they like it, which they don't. Should we fight that? Of course, I am one of the biggest books placents for women's rights in Iran at the moment. Okay. rights in Iran at the moment. Okay? At the moment on social media, one of the most outspoken people on that issue of women's rights and the veil in Iran particularly where they're being forced to and with a lot of cruelty. But if somebody wants to make that choice on their own, it's their choice, right?

It's not usually their choice. I think somebody needs their own. It's not usually their choice. Because it's in the culture, and if you do stuff to children, which is called child abuse like that, then they might grow up, and they know it's another way.

But it is the worst kind of, almost horrible oppression, and gender apartheid. and they know of no other way, but it is the worst kind of almost horrible oppression in gender apartheid. We fought apartheid. Why don't we fight this one? And when I say that the usual suspects will say, I'm an Islamophobor. I'm hating on it. I don't go with that. I don't like the word evil. I like the word ignorance. Really? Yeah. Well, they're two different things. I mean, they can. They feed it.

As I said, that ignorance recycles over and over. It's power-mongering, influence-pedaling, cronism, corruption, power, money, all of that. And that goes with religious institutions, but also goes with political institutions. Look at every single politician in my view is a gangster. Why? All they're engaged in is power, mongering, influence, peddling, cronism, corruption, and money.

Every politician. I haven't found about maybe that woman in New Zealand or the Prime Minister of Ireland. Maybe what are two exceptions? Okay, but just take something like universal healthcare, which we never had. We still don't have, but we got a lot closer in, I think, 2012 at past. So the Affordable Care Act. So like many, many people who couldn't afford health care or who just withered and died because they just,

you know, I mean, there are Michael Morris, when we showed somebody operating on his own knee and so forth. Okay, politicians sat in rooms. It was tedious and horrible, and there was a lot of stale coffee and empty pizza boxes, but they hammered out against a bunch of assholes who didn't want to move forward on that at all.

And it took years and just pains taking work, but they got it done. And then lots of these poor people were able to sign up for opa macar and get it and not operate on their own to me. And you mentioned. So, it's me mentioned. Do we really, do we really know really not, but it could be different.

Lots of people who just like things don't change because we wish them to or because we're philosophical about it, they change the better, at least materially, which affects how you, you know, if you're sick, you can't really be a sound mind. They change because like boring people. It's called evolution. No, nobly sat in boring rooms and got shit done.

It's kind of evolution. The old recycles, but they're also evolves and it takes time. But somebody actually did that shit work. Don't they get some credit? Yeah, they wanted the votes. They what? They wanted the votes from liberals. They wanted the votes.

That's the only reason. That's the only reason. No, no, no, people have ideological... That's what I was this in. That's the only reason the Democrats passed health care. No, no, no, no. I mean, I'm a Democrat. I'm a liberal, but I also know that, you know, that there are, when you're a politician,

power and influence peddling comforts. I'm very hard on the Democrats. You don't have to convince me about the Democrats being politicians or being full of shit on a lot of stuff, but they also do have more of the compassion gene and the other side. Well, let's say that there was a part of them that was also a lot of them anyway, that was quite sincere about let's get some people who are suffering. I can't see. I can't see.

I mean, you know, essentially, if you're into mystery school, I'm with you. Even if you're a Republican, and, you know, I think Republicans do have their mystery school. It's called golf. What's it? What the hell about arguing with you was, I know that when it's over, you're like the last guy who's gonna like hold a grudge, right? Oh, no. I know, I know. But it's over, you're like the last guy who's gonna like hold a grudge right? Oh, no. I know, I know, but I'm just saying like, you know, I'm where you go in the world.

Everybody's always like master and swam. Yeah, right. So I just want to listen, if you have a wife and you have kids, you don't take yourself seriously. To say again, why am I always the asshole with my marriage? And then everybody's like doing the jokes I should be doing. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's why I don't get married.

I want to take myself seriously. I don't take myself seriously because my kids and my wife will look up like that. I think, you know, I do think there was something about being from an ancient culture, you know, your culture, more ancient than mine. And it just, the generations do, you know, accumulate wisdom probably sort of in a, I couldn't explain it in a scientific way, but I, you know, the vernacular would be it's in your blood or something. But, like, there is just, I feel like there's a wisdom.

And also this lightness you talk about, like you're giggling, the Mahareesh used to always be giggling. Oh, and there's a lot of that in the Indian cultures. Like, you know, and that is a level, I mean, I can't deny that I think I would aspire to. I'm not going to get there and I'm not sure I want to do it your way. But whenever I've been in the state where I was just giggling, on mushrooms, it would be

a perfect example. On the water slide, it always makes me laugh. Or just, you know, right after a good orgasm or something, you're just like, and you're saying you can get this, it's available in stores, but it's completely natural, right? Totally natural. I'll tell you a very interesting episode with Marishi. He once asked me to translate into English for an audience that didn't understand Sanskrit or Hindi as speech by a great

guru who was speaking in Sanskrit and the audience was all Western, American, European. After five minutes of this guy speaking, I lost him. I couldn't understand a word he was saying. So while he was giving his speech, I gave mine and they gave us a standing ovation. So after this guru disappeared, I apologized to Mahari. She said, you know, I'm sorry, I had to give my speech. I didn't understand what he's saying. He said, no, his speech was very good. Yours was very good too. I understood his speech. They understood your speech. So what's the fuss about? Yes. You never see the concert for Bangladesh. I do.

The George and put on it. And George was a good friend of mine. I'm sure. Before you tried it in India together for me. Again, a life I can't even imagine. I get the same friends. For like, go out of my comfort zone. But when they did the concert for Bangladesh,

Robbie Shankar opened. Oh, absolutely. Okay, so the Indian musicians are there. This is Madison Square Garden in 1971, New Yorkers, you know, they think they're hip. And the Indian musicians, the Tabla and the Sitar, they are tuning up, it takes like five minutes and they finish. And the crowd applauds. Ravi Shankar says, thank you very much. It's in you and Joy, the tuning up so much.

We hope you enjoyed our first song. All right, thank you for coming. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. What does that mean? Is that it? Oh, okay.

But what does that mean? Let me do it. Is that a specific? Yeah, it means I salute the divine in my mind. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. What does that mean? It's sadness. But what does that mean? Does that mean it's a specific? Yeah, it means I salute the divine in you, which is the divine in me.