Club Random with Bill Maher - Harvey Levin | Club Random with Bill Maher

Episode Date: March 20, 2023

Bill Maher and Harvey Levin randomly riff on the Alec Baldwin case, Harvey’s 9-11 documentary (there was an extra plane), the generational differences at TMZ, when Harvey’s staff realized that he���s older than chips, the concept from Real Time of the national divorce, and Harvey’s heartbreaking, never-before-told story about why Cher is his favorite celebrity.

I just loved your show last week. I loved your show last week. So many people say to me, you know, I'm your biggest fan, but you really are. I really am. I really am. It's possible to... I mean, I would love you anyway, but like, of course, you know, especially someone like me who has been denied so much of my deserved appropriate,

you know, whatever recognition in this industry by the mainstream establishment. So I'm kind of small potatoes. When the smarter people appreciate what you do, it makes it, you know, and I do. I pray so appreciate that you appreciate it. Oh my God, it's just, it was so good. And you do know that I'm constantly saying to people

when they said, did you see this like on, you know, some cable news and I'm always like, no, I get all my news from T.M. Zoo. I'm like, let's go up to the right. Wait a second. And they think I'm kidding. And of course, I'm not kidding. Because I gave up cable news pretty much.

I still like Jake Tapper, but very few. That was a good interview too. That was a great interview. That was a great interview. Yeah, no, he's a real newsman. But I loved seeing you on the other side of it. That was, I used to do it all the time with Larry King. You know, I used to do it when Larry King was,

I don't remember you doing that. Oh, I did it a million times. Did you used to, you must the time with Larry King. You know, I used to do it when Larry King was... I don't remember you doing that. Oh, I did it a million times. Did you used to... You must not have watched Larry King. I hosted it for a little... I was the guest host for a long time. You couldn't have watched it every night. I didn't watch it every night.

I must have done it. It became like what the tonight show was for me in the 80s. Like something I would do four or five times a year. It was a real presence, and he would always give me the full hour. He told me they always doubled their ratings. So that was good. They went from like a million to two million or something.

Yeah. But that was like a big, I love that. You were so, it was so good. But it is so funny that I feel like I saw Sam Harris say that he recently gave up Twitter, you know, and he was like, I needed to do it for my psyche, you know, and I totally understood that even though I'm not someone who's ever been on Twitter really, a little bit, I used to tweet until it became like, oh my god, anything fun you would say, they'd cancel you for sure.

So what the fuck am I using this? But the fact that he was like, I gave up Twitter and my psyche is so much better, I'm kind of that way with cable notes. I am so happy you're kidding it from you. And I feel like you and your crew, I get it. Have a way, of course, it's not the only news I get because you don't cover the kind of things

I have to cover in depth. But as far as TV, yes, I read different things. But I feel like I'm getting what the broad audience of the country, because you do hit on topics that are not just celebrity stuff. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

No, I mean, we're like a pop culture. Yeah. I mean, it's mostly this, the man there pumped in the world of the talk they are, did this or this one, did this, but, you know, along the way, and then there are opinions. I mean, like we did the Alec Baldwin case today. Right, but that's celebrity.

I mean, that's not Ukraine got a drone shot. But you know what's interesting? It is celebrity, but it's, there are issues that make people care about things they otherwise wouldn't care about. Right. That if it's Joe Schmo, but like the Alec Baldwin case is bullshit. I have said the same. I have said the same.

Bullshit, ridiculous, prosecution where they're just grabbing headlines. It is outrageous. I just thought. I know. We almost always agree. Which is great. Rage is the nice thing. They're saying the same thing.

Well, yes, I mean, like I would just put it this way, do you think Alec Baldwin purposely shot this end of a target for, if no, then what are we talking about? No, no, no, that's not true. You can have a manslaughter case, which this is, you know, with the armor, where somebody engages in reckless conduct and they don't intend to kill, but they can be convicted of manslaughter. So you don't have to prove that. I think that's ridiculous, too.

No, it's not. Either to, either to a... What if you get in the car drunk and you drive in drunk? Is it different? No, it's not. It's still manslaughter. But that should be okay. Well, you're the lawyer.

It's manslaughter. I know, but okay, that should be different than what Alec Baldwin did. Because Alec Baldwin is not the same thing as getting drunk, where you have culpability. But he didn't do anything. They charged the armorer with manslaughter, right? She's the expert. She's the one. Yes.

So, if you're saying the expert had the duty, why does an actor have to double check their work? It doesn't make any sense. We're agreeing on that part of it. Well, I'm talking about the legal part of it. And by the way, what I think happened was they were so concerned about fucking COVID masks. That's my theory.

I'm just pulling this out of my ass, but it could be true. What do you mean? I think that, you know, everyone, it's so typical of how America reacts to everything wrong, you know, always scared of the wrong things. And they could have been so apoplectic about everything COVID and there's germs on this set that they therefore forgot about the bullets in the gun. Oh my God. I mean, if I was rewriting in this as a play, that's what I would do to make that point, about what I think America does when it has confronted with a crisis. But on the legal point, come on, don't you think getting drunk means you have some, that's an action you took and then got in your car versus just an honest mistake that that should

not be manslaughter. Well, no, but we agree on Alec Baldwin, but if somebody gets in a car, drunk, and they are reckless and they kill somebody, That's precisely what manslaughter is. Right. I guess I would call that like fourth degree murder. Is there such a thing? No. That would be because it would be like, yes, it's murder,

but you in no way directly intended to do it. But you knew you could maybe murder by doing this stupid thing. So can we talk about law today? Because I feel like I need the upper hand on something. Yeah. It's just no upper hand. I mean, you have that background in law, which I think is also great on your show

because not that you need an extra dimension to be smarter than those kids you work with. Oh, stop it. What? I want, they're great. Okay. See, this is where you and I disagree on something. We don't disagree as much as you think.

I think we do. Okay. You have a lot of contempt. Ha, ha, ha. That what I have contempt for is that they don't know, when they don't know something and you do, their attitude is, oh, dad, what an asshole, you know things.

Like, you're the asshole because you know something and they don't. Whereas, a more, I feel like humble generation would be, I feel like this is the way we were. It's like, oh, if I don't know something, I'm the idiot. You know, all that generation does is, I wasn't born for that. You know, even if you mention a movie, I wasn the idiot. You know that all that generation does is I wasn't born for that. You know, even if

you'd mentioned a movie, I wasn't born. Yeah, that's why we put it on celluloid. I disagree with you, man. Well, I'm watching it every night. So I'm a little bit older than you. But you probably know this. During the Vietnam War, there was a mantra in my generation. And you know what that was? We are the same generation. Well, there was a mantra in my generation. And you know what that was? We had the same generation. Well, what was the mantra? Make love, no more. Well, that was one.

Don't trust anyone over 30. Oh, okay, sure. Okay, well, what's the difference? I mean, you know, that's the right of passage with young people that they have contempt for, look, it's not like we did a great job with this world. And so they're looking at what was left to them. And I did that when during the Vietnam War thinking,

how could they lead us down this path? And that mantra was real. That was not just a thing. It was real, Bill. I think that's a bullshit thing. No, that every generation, they left us. Every generation does what they can. They're living their lives. They're probably doing the best that they can, given whatever the circumstances are. Do you think we're better off today than we were, say, 30 years ago? Well, I mean, tell you something, President Carter, we're better off when you lose your

job. No, I just mean better off. It's, first of all, whatever the answer to that is, it doesn't matter because there were so many other factors that came along that were not something that any generation can control. Most of history, I think, is first of all dictated by the technology. It's not even in our control.

You know, they were gonna get rid of slavery and then along came the cotton gin, somebody invented the cotton gin and it made slavery incredibly profitable. Okay. So humans reacted the way humans usually react. But there are human judgments that people make and choices that people make.

And I could understand why somebody, 30 years old, who is looking at a pipe dream of buying a house or or worrying about whether the world will even last. And who are they going to blame? They're not going to blame their contemporaries because they weren't the ones in charge. There are people in charge of things, even, you know, despite technology, people are in

charge of things, and they're older people. So the way they look at us, honestly, it's kind of the way I look at people who got us into the Vietnam War. Okay, well that was that art. That really wasn't art, wasn't it? That was my generation, because when I was in it, that was the World War II generation. They were the ones in charge. Kennedy, Nixon, Johnson, those are people who were World War II people. Kennedy served in World War II. So did Nixon who prosecuted that one? But isn't it principle the same? Well, you're

blaming a former generation, but it is not our generation. You're a baby boomer. I'm a baby boomer. That's the greatest generation. They're different. But so they're different in our eyes. They're not necessarily different in the eyes of like my staff that is looking at them. Then they don't know things. They, you know, then they're ignorant because generation, if we're talking about generations, we should not lump them all together. Then why don't we lump us with the millennials? Why we're different generation. We said don't trust anyone over 30. That is a sweeping state. It was a stupid then, and it is now.

It was stupid. Yes, because everyone... It didn't feel stupid then. Because you were under 30. Okay, well, my staff is a lot of them are under 30. I'm saying. And when you're in your 20s, you're basically an idiot. I look back at what I was thinking and doing in my 20s

and I go, what a fucking idiot. I said this before here. If even at this age of 67, if you asked me, would you, in a view of Jeannie said, you can go back and be 25 again, would you do it? I would say, no, if I still had to have that brain in my head, because I know all the pain that's gonna come from being that dumb.

If I could go back knowing what I do now, that would be a fantastic deal. But you say dumb, and maybe they don't have the historical knowledge that we have just because of the fact that we've lived a lot longer, but I will tell you, and I mean this, there is no way TMZ would be successful if this were all in my head.

We're talking about two different things. Oh, it's bad. We're not really. They have a skill. You're expanding this one area that I'm focusing in on with that generation, with the people you work with. We're very likely.

I don't dislike these people. I watch them every night. If I didn't like them, I wouldn't watch every show every night. But you're trying to expand this in a way that is, I don't think, valid. Yes, that generation has a tough time economically. I get it. They also have the future there for them to take. The one good thing that's still left about America is that you can make your own way and you can reinvent yourself. That's true. Tomorrow. That's true. You did it. I did it. It's still available for them. And they do seem, I feel for them when they talk about lives that don't seem happy.

But you know, my life wasn't terribly happy in my 20s either because that's the decade you're spending where you're trying to establish yourself. Of course, it's a harder grind. You're in the infancy of your adulthood. That was my favorite decade. What? My 20s? It really was. Really? Yeah.

Your favorite? It was my favorite because, I mean, you know, I got out of law school and I went down to Miami and I taught law school and I just felt like the, and I made 11,500 bucks and I felt rich. And I was experiencing all these new things as an adult. It was magical for me. I loved my 20s.

Loved my 20s. It's so interesting. I always thought we agreed on everything. We don't agree on anything. I think we do. We do. I think we do. And I so appreciate it.

You're like my patronet, really. I mean, I feel like too much. I don't understand it because I am I Because when because TMZ will like put my shit up there in you know Whoever edits that does a fine job. I do that one personally. Oh, I see There you go. I'm not trusting the millennials are Oh, no, no, I just get up earlier. I know. Oh, yes, you do. It's bad. Your bedtime now is only quarter. Right. But no, but you know, it really has a lot of people who would never be aware of my show. Some people don't even get HBO. Kids don't watch TV. They don't

watch TV. That's not their thing. You know, okay, going to be a huge sea change because all these cord cutters, now that it's getting bigger and bigger and bigger, what's cable is in some trouble over this, it really is. And I think social media is so dominant, I was stunned during the Johnny Depp trial. That was, that opened my eyes and I realized people were getting their news from TikTok. And yes, it was biased and it was skewed, but that's where it came from. I know, that's what I get my news from TMZ. It feels like a Wall Street Journal now, right? Exactly.

Exactly. You're right. You're right. You're right. That's exactly what I'm saying. You're right. You're going to get it on TikTok. Oh, you're wrong. You're fucking Wall Street Journal. You're a guy.

See, that's what I, not to go back to this thing. But I do want to go back to this thing, I guess I do, about your crew. I don't dislike them. But like, if I said Walter Cronkite or you said it, they'd be do, about your crew. I don't dislike them. But like, if I said Walter Cronkite, or you said it, they'd be like, who's that? And you tell them. And they roll their eyes like, oh, knowing things. And that's so old. It's like that bugs me, you know? You know, can I tell you something funny that they did? Well, I heard one, one of them said one day, why would you ever read a book? Okay, that he's an outlier.

It was her. Okay, she's an outlier. Okay. Well, I guess there's two of them. Well, sometimes I deserve it. Today, it was so funny in the morning meeting. We were talking about a documentary on Cheetos, on flaming Cheetos.

It's actually, it sounds kind of interesting. No, there's a big documentary on it. And so I started, you know, I pulled a Tuesday with Mori on him, and I started telling him a story because I worked in my dad's liquor store when I was growing up and I said, you know, when I was working

in the store, they introduced a bunch of new Cheetos. And I remember that this guy came in with this big box and it was the first time I had ever seen lace potato chips that you had just come out. And Devon in my office kind of looked at me stunned and said, you're older than chips. That's a scream. Oh, you know, some of them are witty. I've got really funny. Yeah, I mean, there's a few of the guys there are, you know, I like, these guys can be really funny.

Comedy writers, you know, they are good. I guess, and the other thing is that they, I guess I take Umbridge because, of course, you know, I've sold you this before, the genius of your show is that they I guess I take umbridge because of course, you know, I've told you this before, the genius of your show is that it's really a family show. You're the pattern familias. You're the what's that? You're the father and then you have these kids and you know these darn kids are always making fun of you but you love them so you put up with it but I but of course I relate to you, duh.

So like, they make, when they make fun of you, or like really, I feel like cruel jokes. I feel like, you know, my thing, I'm always saying, ageism, the last prejudice you can have is ageism. They have this terrible attitude about older people, like if there's a problem, like, well, that'll be solved when they die. Great solution.

Just wishing for people to die. Fuck you. Even if I agree with the cause, you're talking about it. But there's a way of, there's a bad attitude. There's a total way of diffusing it because I call them all the time. I want to be cremated. I go through the whole thing with it. And no, but what it does is it disarms them.

That if you, because what they're looking for is a reaction and if you lean into it and if you say, yeah. And I'm older than dirt. And I'm older than chips. But you're not. See, that's the other thing that bugs me. They talk about you like you get one foot in the grave.

Meanwhile, I feel like you have a much better life than a, first of all, you look great. No, none of us can look like we did when we were 35. But you, I would never guess you're the age you are. You're in better shape than they are. Okay, come on. You are. I always used to look at that and I'm like,

what is this guy? This is not a competition. Because you, no, but it's, it's not a competition, but it's relevant to people who are always making jokes about your age, which don't ring true about you. They don't, that's the thing. I'm a comedian. I know when a joke rings true.

So it's like, yes, is he technically this many years older? What life is he leading? Is he leading a young life? Does he have a young energy? What about him is betraying this ancient age that he wears? Nothing. I get it. But we also collaborate a lot. We don't together all the time.

I understand. And I really appreciate how they bring things to the table that I just don't know. And it helps shape what we do in a big, big, big way. I learn from them also. I do, because I see you. It's a great way to see what a big, big, big way. I learn from them also. Yeah, I do. I mean, because I see. I believe you. It's a great way to see what that generation,

which, look, I have lots of millennial friends, so I do hear about it. But yeah, it's, I can tell you, it's a great show because again, you're the father. Yeah, I have the kids. And it's that Mary-Toler more dynamic. Where they're not really family, but Mr. Grant was really the father and Mary was the daughter, Murray was the brother.

I love that show. Right. God, I love that show. What's that show? I have no idea. I'm going to tell them. I'm going to tell them. Oh, once again, he knows something.

I don't know about what an asshole, someone who would know something. Okay, so let me ask you this. I watched your 9-11 thing. Awesome. Oh, thank you. Of course, you don't have to thank me. No, honestly, I'm so close to it because it took six months.

I love the way it was done, first of all, because it's not long. You don't have to watch everything these days is too long. Right. You can say it in an hour and you do. We do. Right. And the premise, I don't have to watch everything these days is too long. Right. Like you can say it in an hour and you do. We do. Right. And the premise, I don't know how anybody didn't, wasn't all over this for the last 20 years,

but crazy. That was a call 9-11, the fifth plane. The fifth plane. I mean, that says it all. There was a fifth plane. There's no doubt in my mind after watching this that that absolutely was the fifth plane. There's no law that says, but no, we could only have four planes. No, there was probably, they could have been six.

They could have been six. But there definitely was this one, because as you show, I don't want to give too much of it away, but you know, there's four guys, and of course these are political correct terms. So we have to say, of course, not all Arabs or Muslims are terrorists. Yes, we never said differently,

but it is just for Arabs sitting in first class. One of them is a man in a Berkha. That's what the flight attendant said, which also would have been a good title. The man in the Berkha. That's what the flight attendant said. There were three flight attendants. We interviewed. We interviewed the pilot.

And this was a plane, a United flight that was supposed to take off from JFK at nine in the morning, and it was going to take off from JFK at 9 in the morning and it was going to last same time as the other four. Same time it would have aligned perfectly. And there were a lot of things that happened, but ultimately I think the reason this is so stunning that it never came out is these flight attendants were all interviewed by the FBI immediately. The FBI was alarmed.

They locked that plane up after everybody got evacuated and all of a sudden, people in the ground saw two people running in the plane. The plane was fully empty. And the authorities came and opened the door and the hatch that leads from the cabin down to the bottom of the plane and the tarmac, it was open. Somebody opened this hatch with the pilot things and what he told me, he, they found box

cutters in the plane right next to his. And it was one of the first class in the seat pockets. I mean, they did everything but leave a business card that said, Muhammad Kablewik. Well, look, here's the thing. There was somebody on the ground that at least the pilot thinks that came up into that plane thinking the box cutters were put on that plane, which is what the intention was. And they were trying to look for weapons to get rid of them before anybody searched the plane. No, plainly, that's, I mean, there's no other explanation.

The FBI took, the FBI took the flight attendants to a lineup to see if they could identify these passengers. And it was never mentioned in the 9-11 Commission report. That was the most disturbing part of it to me. I mean, what other reason would there be box cutters planted in the pocket? The seat pocket. The pocket. And of course, that's what it is.

And well, I have two questions. One, any idea where the plane, what the target was, because my guess is the White House? Well, because if I was planning the big attack with five planes, now you have to think about in terms of five, okay. The one that crashed in Pennsylvania, that was headed for the Capitol. So you got the Capitol, the Pentagon, the two towers. What else are you gonna take out?

Mount Rushmore? No. Well, some people think that, well, I don't know. I mean, I don't think anybody really knows where the flight in Pennsylvania was headed. It could have been the Capitol, but it could have been the White House. I mean, what is, as opposed to what? This Smithsonian, the Department of Fisheries and Hatcher, you know, you're going to take

out the White House. Yeah. So, this plane, by the way, it never took off. It got to the runway and they called it back because at that point, it would have taken off, but there was a long line. It was, the pilots said it was the only day. Usually it's one or two planes ahead of them. There were 10 planes.

And we're not for that. The plane would have been in the air and God knows what would have happened. So did the same people who work on TMZ, Vanderpump rules, do the show like that? Isn't that something? Yeah. All of them?

Not everybody, no. I mean, we're doing a lot of documentaries now and we just have a great team and it's a small team, but we're doing a lot of documentaries and I personally, I love doing these. I love, it's my passion. Club random is brought to you by the audio marketing gurus

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And I've probably were saying before about where TikTok is now, TMZ moves, everything is always in flux in media. Right? And TMZ is, I could say that absolutely morphing to a much more mainstream, where it wasn't, you know, now it's associated with gossip, but associated with things like this. More of a, you know, because those two areas lap, we've seen that going back as far as Gary Hart with the inquire, that the gossip investigators are sometimes better than the mainstream media investigators, often.

Yeah, I mean, we've, I gotta say, I mean, at least the goal, whether we've accomplished it or not, but the goal for many years now has really been to not really just do a celebrity website. It's really more of a pop culture website. And we take on, you know, like, you know, we mentioned Alec Baldwin, but there are other examples of, you know, the Jesse Smalled case, and there are like a lot of cases that may have celebrities, but the issues are really, really important. And I don't think there's this wall between important and pop culture. I think the two really merge a lot, a lot.

Well, you certainly get more people paying attention to an issue. Right. If it has a celebrity attached to it. Well, you know, I mean, you know, it's really funny. get more people paying attention to an issue. Right. If it has a celebrity attached to it. Well, you know, I mean, you know, it's really funny. But you can't attach a celebrity to every issue that's important. At some point, people are going to have to, if the country is going to last, you know, sort of get on the page that if you're a citizen, you have to have some sort of awareness

of what the fuck is going on. Yeah. I mean, whether or not Madonna is involved with it. But whose fault is it if they're not? Because I'll tell you, one of the things, the thing that bothers me so much is just that depending on what you read and watch now, your world view is so skewed and fucked up that you cannot do anything but hate people who you disagree with because the way they present it on both sides is so like tribal that I think that's one of the biggest dangers in this country

that people are getting skewed views of the world and they have such contempt for the other side. You talk about this a lot. I'm talking about it Friday night, right? Before you came here, I was working on, well, we're doing Friday night at the end of the show and it's St. Patrick's Day. So it takes off on the idea that for 30 years, political hatred got so bad in Northern Ireland

that it became violent hatred. And people had to live with bombings and they had to live with snipers. And I'm not saying that's exactly what's gonna happen here, but they called the troubles. And certainly the ingredients are exactly the same because of what you're just saying. When people get to this point where the hatred

is this serious where you have Marjorie Taylor Green saying, we need a national divorce. In other words, we can't even talk to you. Yeah. A heated conversation is so much healthier than no conversation at all. Yelling and screaming at you, at least you're talking. I mean, and obviously we're making some hay

about the fact that she's comparing it to divorce, but there's a serious point there that people in relationships get to that same place where... Well, succession is divorce. It is divorce, right? And she actually used the term irreconcilable differences. And I don't know. I'm constantly trying to appeal to that American who's not like that.

And I know there's lots of them out there, but it is discouraging when I see the ones who were so indoctrinated. And I see some of this among your crew that I don't think logic cannot get to them. And that's of course true of the other side, absolutely. Yeah. That you can't reach them because they believe in this religion of the woke or the religion

of Trump. And you can't argue with religion. So I mean, I don't know. And then are you hopeful? Not really. I'm not either. I'm not either. But it's so funny that the cognitive dissonance between how the world is to me, which is not hopeful, and yet my own life, I mean, you said you liked your 20s the best, I liked this the best. More in control, more comfortable with who I am, more successful. No, that's all true.

I mean, why isn't there, isn't, don't you, did you get a charge out of the first time you did this in the first time? There's nothing like that. That happened twice. When I got late and when I smoked pop, that, I'm serious. Those are the two, I know exactly what you're talking about. When you got your first car, you weren't, well, well, let me add a third one.

And the first time I got up on stage and did 20 minutes and got laughs all the way through. I remember the exact date. It was June 20, 1980. Like 20 minutes and was I the greatest comic ever? No, but I was a real comic. I got up and did a 20 minutes set and people actually laughed at everything as they were supposed to. And that was one. The first time I was on stage in high school, that was like, I could not sleep that night. I did a show like the pop show, you know, whatever, the talent show we had. And I came out of my shell senior year.

And now I'm starting, there's more than just getting laid and- Well, okay. Okay. I'll give it two or three things. But smoking pot was one, getting laid was one. Yeah, the first time a girl liked me and the first date was one.

Yeah, there was first times that we're great, but they're few and far between over a whole, we're talking about 15 years from like 15 to 30. Let me ask, let me ask you something. When did you get your first house? When it first was? House. House. No, I didn't say that.

House. House. You know what I mean? It was a tattoo. Remember when we were going to get this matching tattoos and someone, I heard someone on your show, she's sweet, like blonde girl. Courtney. No, the one is getting married or...

Oh, Charlie. Charlie, yeah. She was like, did you hear? They're getting matched. You bet you, she really blew it. Right, right, right. But my first house I bought in, moved in in April of 1986. Okay.

On Orange Grove, it was... Smallhouse? The smallest. I, I, not as small as mine. Not as small as mine. I had a converted trailer that they put on a lot. Actually, not that far from there. Were you, I was more excited with that little house, that little converted trailer, sitting

on the board saying this is, you're right. It's like all of those things. You're right. You're right about that. You're right. You know? That house, yes. There's something about pissing on your own land. It's the best.

And it's like, I was 29, I think, when I bought it. And remember, my rent was like $450, $450 back then, 1985. And then my mortgage went up to like 1450. And I was shitting in my pants, because like, whoa, I just added a grand a month that I have to come up with for rent. And I did, you know, I mean, it was like, okay.

And yes, I remember going up on the roof myself to clean the gutters, like it's just every three months. Those first things that you experience as an adult are just bad things. And first, and like, the way, yeah, love is, I mean, you know, you probably, when it's new like that, it's, yeah. All right.

You're a little more right than I was. You see? But, again, those things are not like every day. Where it's like, my life was not good every day. There were a lot of days I didn't like. But my life now, there's very rarely a day I don't like. I mean, I got up today and I went to the office. We go once a week now and I had my writers meeting and I write,

how could I have more fun than sitting around with those brilliant people who I love and kicking around the ideas that are fresh and we're gonna do this amazing show Friday. And you know, and then I come home and I get to write a thing about it and then I get to talk to you. It's like there's more sometimes good stuff

crammed in one week in now than there was in a year. You made me like blindly jealous just with I went to the office, I go to the office once a week. Why are you there every day? Well of course I mean we're doing the show. Yeah of course and I know that their long office is the, it's all the office. So you're in the same places when you're off camera? Yeah, that's a working office. We just pull chairs up. I mean, we just pull chairs up. Right, yeah.

Well, so like every time I watch you, now I must say my image back in the day was that TMZ was meaner. Am I wrong? Did you not get nicer? I was afraid of you at one point. Well, I think, yeah, look, I mean, I was actually talking to one of your producers about this.

Yeah, I mean, I think we have changed. And I sometimes look back and think, oh my God. Yeah. I mean, I don't know that it's meaner as much as, you know, I sometimes look back and think, oh my God. Yeah, I mean, I don't know that it's meaner as much as, you know, there were lines that were, I guess were acceptable, but when I look back, I think my God, why didn't we corral ourselves more? Yeah, I just feel like you're fans now.

You're fans of all of these people, generally, you like them. Yeah, I mean, because I like them too them too. But we're also honest about it. I mean, what I love is there's not this like singular view of anything. And I think that's really important. It's kind of what you were talking about earlier that, you know, you can tolerate disagreement. We disagree all the time about things. I love it. But we have taught, we talk about it all the time. And I love that. I love that. I love that. That's what makes it real. And the fact that they don't edit when they make fun of you. It's great because then you do your Jack Benny take.

Yeah, Harvey. What was Jesus like? Yeah, Harvey. What was Jesus like? Yeah, I don't get a Jack Betty. No, by the way, you know I did. Of course. That's original. But you do your version of it. I mean, it's a take.

It's Jim from the office. Okay. I mean, that's why the camera goes there. Okay. That's what they're doing. Okay. It's the comedy gold. But like, all these people will cover,

who is your favorite celebrity, or do you even have one, or do you even care? Share. And not for the reason you think. That I'm getting, I'm getting more reason to it. That's right, I forgot. She's a very big icon. Yeah, but that's not white.

You know, I have never, I love share. I've never talked about this. But I'm gonna. This is not a really, this is not a happy story, but it has a meaningful ending. Back in the 80s, life in the gay community was a nightmare. It was just a nightmare because of AIDS. And I can't explain this.

Now I've tried to explain this a little bit to the staff, and it's just hard for people to understand this, but like half my friends died in their 20s and 30s, at least half. I was going to almost a funeral a week, and you know, you would spend weekends at the Sherman Oaks AIDS ward at the hospital there, which was just filled with people. And there was no cure.

It was a death sentence then. And so I had a partner, his name was Kevin, and we were together for almost nine years. And he, we didn't get tested for a long time because there was nothing you could do and you just didn't wanna live without hanging over your head. But when they came out with a drug that didn't cure anything but at least it was something,

we both got tested and he was positive. And a couple of years later, he got really sick. He developed full blown AIDS. And it was so ghastly. I just can't even, it was, there was just nothing to comfort him medically. It was horrible. And he was a, the best realtor that has ever worked

in Los Angeles and everybody loved him and he was so successful and so good at it and honest about it. And he had a lot of celebrity clients. So one night he was near death. I was at home alone and there was a knock at the door. And I opened the door up and it was shared. And she said, I came to see Kevin. And she knew. She was a client of his. But, you know, people talk and she, I guess she knew he was sick. And she said, can I see him? And I said, of course. And I said, I could come upstairs with you

because it's kind of rough. And she said, no, she said, I want to go along. And so she walked at the stairs and she closed the door. And I could hear her talking to him. He was in a coma at that point. And, but I think he could process and understand. And I thought, okay, she'd be there for like five or 10 minutes.

She was there for 45 minutes. And she was just talking to him. And she came downstairs afterward and she said, I'm really sorry. And she left. And the reason I'm telling you this and why I'm so taken by her, she never talked about it. She never had a publicist call and said, I've visited somebody with AIDS. She never talked about it. I've never really publicly talked about this.

And I'm glad you aren't. And people should know that about her. Absolutely. And I am I Think so much of her and it was so genuine and and meaningful and you know I went upstairs after and I could just tell it meant something. I mean he couldn't talk But I could see this kind of it was was peaceful, and he died a couple of days later, but I will never forget that from her.

I will never forget that. So the reason you like it really is kind of, because it's kind of gay. It's kind of gay, but no. It's just a bit, that's what they call a a treat little cutter on his sitcom, you know? The eight year old. Okay, you got, no, no. But you know, on sitcoms, That's what they call a trickle cutter on a sitcom. You know? The eight year old. Okay.

You got no, no. But you know, on sitcoms, the eight year old who comes in and says, boner, commercial. But no, let me go back because I have- And you can, I just say, there's so many celebrities now who will, you know, use publicists and whatnot to, you know, show good deeds. And it's great that they have good deeds. Hers was just private. She just wanted to do it.

So, well, first of all, I always thought she was great. Fan of her music, fan of her acting, and just fan of her as a person. You could tell she was a ballsy, real chick. I mean, I'm not going to get to in this lifetime be friends with her, but I bet you we would have been friends if we've been in the same. And did you ever become friends with her, but I bet you we would have been friends if we've been in the same. And did you ever become friends with her after that?

No, I had actually, you know, I mean, it was just out of the blue. And our paths only crossed once. Really? When Kevin was showing her house to this religious sect that was looking at the house to buy it, and I'm just thinking, where are these guys getting the money? Now I understand. But she was introducing herself to all of the fathers or whatever they were called from this sect that were looking at this $20 million house or whatever it was. And she came down to me and I said, I'm father 11. It's

nice to meet you. And she hit me. But that was pretty much the only interaction. Well, you know, she got into trouble about two years ago maybe. You remember this? She tweeted something. I think it was about the George Floyd murder. I think she, but it was some instance like that.

I'm pretty sure that was, and she said, she was just, you know, it's so typical of our cancel culture where there are,'s called the apology culture making people apologize when they're only trying to say something good and you get it slightly wrong or wrong in some person's eyes and she said something like I wish I could have been there because I think I could have helped. Oh I remember that. I'm not saying that's a word for word. I remember this. I remember it very close to that.

That was certainly the sentiment. Yeah. And just for people who don't understand what it's like to be a celebrity, I'm saying that not as one myself as because there are levels of it that are so, when the stratosphere beyond where I am, and I'm fine with that. I don't want to be in that stratosphere be on where I am, and I'm fine with that, I don't wanna be

in that stratosphere, but the power that celebrity has in our culture, I'm not so sure a celebrity in that situation couldn't have changed something. People are just moved by celebrity. I don't know if she could have got that sick cop to stop doing what he was doing, but it's not completely unthinkable. But let's say it is. Okay, she made a point, you may not like it. She didn't come from a green place. In good faith. Yeah, in a great place. Let's go.

In good faith. Yeah, in a great place. Let it go. You know? That's what, when I rail about woke, that's the kind of shit that I'm talking about, that annoys so many people. I know it's not just me. I just hear it all the time. Like Bill, please, and this is from Liberals, you know.

I heard it too. Everybody hates that shit. It's just mean girls high school bullshit. But you know what, But you know the problem. The problem is corporate. The problem is big companies that if this were just a couple thousand people on Twitter going after everybody sitting at a computer, I don't know that it would matter that much. But the fact is it has caught the attention of big companies that will immediately fire people

that will, you know, put you in a corner because they're so scared of, you know, of people on both extremes. So the extremes are running this country, not because the public wants it, but all of the infrastructure and all the people that hire and fire and will rent you an apartment or do whatever, they listen to this and they're scared of it and they react to it. And I think that's why things have gotten out of control. I don't think it's the public because I agree with you.

I don't think the public believes this shit. I think that what's going on is, is that these companies are so skittish that they're gonna get canceled, that they'll just cut anybody off if they misstep it all. I really do. All right, I have to go back to one thing about your story.

About what? Well, I mean about AIDS. I mean, first of all, I'm sure you saw the thing I did last week on Sashin Little Feather. I'm sure your crew does not know who that is. No, I don't. They don't know Marlon Brando to your point. That was a hysterical.

That was hysterical. But like, okay, we won't go back to that. But tell them how big a moment that was, because that was a big moment. Oh, it was a huge moment. It was just culture. It was okay. Well, and you say, you know, how it's TMZ changed. I mean, like you said, they were doing Tomahawk chops.

And the liberals. Right. Yes, this was liberal Hollywood. By the way, I told Quentin Tarantino, he's not going to do it, of course, but I told him, Quentin, you love to remake things, remake real history. Why don't you remake that? Because what I left out of that story, by the way, Quentin, you love to remake things, remake real history.

Why don't you remake that? Because what I left out of that story, by the way, that the obituary in the New York Times said was, not only did they boo her, cheer her, threaten to arrest her, she went over time, did the Tomahawk job. John Wayne having to be restrained from rushing this day.

Well, that I am, that I believe. Listen to this, she takes the award. This is in the obituary, brings it to Brando's house after the ceremony. On the doorstep, she is shot at. I did not know really. That's what they said. Holy smokes. So that's why I said to Quentin, you should remake this incident, except you love women characters who go on a tear and kill half a shoe datter and then she kills like all those Hollywood liberals who were booing her. Kill Jack Lemon. No, she gets with Roger Moore.

I love that. I love that. But anyway, but the point I was getting to that, in that thing was that everyone's laid on everything. And I meant the first one I mentioned was Reagan. Right. He said Reagan was laid on AIDS. Obama was laid on gay marriage.

JFK was laid on civil rights. Every Lincoln said ugly things about black people before he gave his life to emancipate them. Everybody's laid. But that one, the Reagan one, I purposely put that first because it was such an unnecessary one. What do you mean? That he didn't do anything about it until Rock Hudson got it? Yeah. Partly because it was just like, well, gay people and they shouldn't be poking in the wrong hole. Yeah, but Bill, I gotta tell you, this was not,

when I remember, I mean, people were getting fired from jobs, they were getting thrown out of apartments, their families were just owning them. There was, that's one of the reasons I love share so much for what she did, right? Because she didn't buy into that fear. And it was horrible. And so when I hear that about Reagan and everything else, that it had to be Rock Hudson before

he did anything, I mean, there were a lot of people who were liberal people. And part of it is, honestly, part of it is they were just scared. But there was a lot of meanness that connected to that. I remember having Ron Reagan Jr. on politically incorrect in the 90s, right under that sign there. And Harvey Firestein was on with him. And he said at one point, fuck you when fuck your father. And what did he say? I don't. We'll be right back. The reason I say that is I don't think Ron Reagan was at all aligned with him on this. I'm not

sure that Ron Reagan Jr. Ron Reagan. He's a cool guy. Yeah. My point was that the venom for Ronald Reagan, the president, was so great that Harvey could not help himself from saying, fuck you and fuck you, fuck you, it's pretty funny. I mean, it's pretty funny. But okay, so here's my serious question. I hope it's not too personal, but how did you avoid this bullet? I don't know. And I think about it actually a lot now.

Maybe it's in that big cup. I don't know. And I think about it actually a lot now. Maybe it's in that big cup. I don't know. It's so random. You know, it's so funny. You say that I, there, there was, it was so traumatic that I mean, it really has affected me in every way for life. Yeah. It would, I mean, every, I mean, Kevin was 34. And my friends were in their 20s and 30s. And I don't know, I don't know how I avoided it. But, you know, I've been thinking about it so much over the last couple of years. And, you know, one of the things it's funny, you know, you talk about getting older, I was just thinking just the things that could happen to you from conception to death. I mean, from birth defects to illness, to accidents, to all these

things, if you can make it as far as we've made it, it is like winning the lottery. It is like winning the lottery. And when I see all the people I know who died, and it's like, why? Why me? I mean, I really mean it. It's like, it's hard to understand. I don't have an answer to that. But it works the other way too. I remember talking to Matthew Perry last year

when he was out doing his book and he did. I saw the show. Yeah. And I mean, it is harrowing what... I mean, he did it to himself. It'll be the first to admit. But the drugs, the operations, how close he was to death. Yeah.

And then once he was... I read the book too, and when he was close to death, he did it again. He went back to it. Yeah. And I remember saying to him, you know, it is so easy to die, it's also kind of hard, which you prove. It is also kind of hard. And I wish you would think more of it in those terms. Yes, it is easy to die. We are so brittle, the flesh. But we're also

very kind of resistant, resistant and hardy. I mean, you think about it. But I didn't see a lot of resistant people. No. I mean, it was just a time with something like that. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, you say that, but it's not hard to die. And you know, when you, when you experience, it's both all these people that you know, who are, you know, in the prime of their life. And, you know know because they had sex with somebody. It's a death sentence and it's just incomprehensible. It is. I've never. Well, I've just, yeah, and maybe it's my convoluted way of like getting in the idea that we've talked about before when you threatened to quit. And I'm like, first of all, you need to, you're, there's no reason to quit.

There is no diminution of your skills. So why would you even think about that? You know, look at yourself as like, you know, this is... But these are no more older... What are you... What are you talking about? You said that before, like maybe I should just... No, I said it along...

Well, along... Several years? Several years ago. Yeah, there was, when we moved over to a new company, I have more energy now than I've had in. Right. So instead of obsessing on the number, whatever you are, 70, one or something. I don't obsess on that.

Okay. And I'm also not afraid of dying. I don't think about it. I'm fine with it. It's going to happen. Really? It's a, that's very brave. Are you? Of dying? Yeah. Yeah. No, but the reward. But dying. Yeah, but the reason I'm not is, I mean, to have lived as long as I've lived and with all the people that never had that life. It's like, yeah, I'm not gonna live forever and it's kind of graven. Well, you know, I really mean that. I'm not like that. I totally believe you.

I'm just trying to convince you something else. First of all, the natural lifespan of the human being is more like a hundred. You do realize that. How do we know this? Because there are places in the world called blue zones, where people do live almost everybody lives to around a hundred. It's just more... But they don't know why.

Yes, they do. Well, no, they have theories about it exactly. But the point is that mostly it's, look, it's not rocket science. Mostly it's like the diet, you know, the lack of toxins, the lack of pollutants. There are other factors. One is a religious community, you're a Belinda in California, it's like why? But you know, look, that suggests to me very strongly that there is an mental element to keeping your health.

I'm always believed in a strong connection between the mind and mind,. I agree with you. I think it's something Western medicine completely overlooked. I absolutely agree with you. If they can't read it on a chart, it doesn't exist, and that is not how health is. So why do these strongly religious people? Well, religion does give people, if you really believe it, if you can really throw yourself into it, it gives you peace of mind. I've heard people say to me, all my life, you know, I put my head on the pillow at night, I know if I die in my sleep, I'll go to a better place. And I always say that, why don't you?

Wait a minute, are you now becoming a religious bill? No, no, no, I'm saying this, no, but I'm saying, having that peace of mind could be a very big key to health, how stressed you are, how, how, how, how, when you put that head on the pillow, you go, sleep itself is so important to longevity and to being healthy. I'm just saying there are factors.

That is one that should be considered since it's one of the five blues zones. But mostly it's like, another one is that they all seem to eat a lot of beans. I'm not joking. So you know farting, just farting. Well, it could be. I want to ask you something, because I love your take on religion.

I really do. Oh, good. And you know, when you talk about Christianity as a cult, but yet what you just said is really interesting. If you really believe that the peace of mind that comes along with religion lets you live longer, why don't you embrace it? Because I can't fool myself. I'm not an idiot.

I'm rough, I'm idiot. Good just go, hey. Oh, I'm glad you have a good time. Oh my God. That's the best. But it's true. You know, I always try to explain. You're too smart for you, right? I try to explain.

Yes, I always try to explain to people the difference between religion and not religion and they say, well, how do you explain? I say, of course, we agree that there are things in this universe that we have no way of knowing. I don't know that we have no way of knowing. I don't know how it all began, of course. But my answer to that is not to make up stories that I tell myself. That's your answer to that.

If it works for you, congratulations, you do you. I'm saying, it could be a key to longevity of sorts. You know, and I wonder if the people in the other five places are maybe they're not crazy religious like the Urbulinda people. I think it's Urbulinda, but they are possibly strong Catholics or just something where you have that peace of mind that you know what's going to happen when it all ends. I mean, that's one reason why you said to me, are you afraid of dying, of course,

because I don't know what's gonna happen, and I think it's nothing, but it could be anything. I've never been adamant about what I certain knows. I don't know what happens when you die. I just, as Richard Dawkins says, I'm an atheist. You don't believe in all the other gods like Zeus and, you know, Thor, I just take as Richard Dawkins says, I'm an atheist. You don't believe in all the other gods like Zeus and, you know, Thor, I just take it one more. And don't believe in the last one we agreed to believe in.

So, but you're peaking is the point I was making is that you should think of yourself as peaking. You know, don't listen to those kids who say you're old. No, but you think this is affecting me. You're the one who raised retirement? No, I raised retirement three years ago with you. And it happened that long ago. Yeah, no it was.

It hasn't been the last couple of years. Oh good. I'll tell you, I'm like so energized now with this. Wow, good. Because we're getting, I'm really mean it. We're getting resources Yes, I've got this passion for these documentaries and this is what is going to keep you alive I mean you don't know that's with them the mind right also having a purpose to get up and like new things new experiences New world I'm with you I'm with no I told you with you you're right

I mean I didn't know you were gonna expose me that way. Oh, I'm with you. No, I told you with you. You're right. I mean, I didn't know you were going to expose me that way. Oh, I'm sorry. It's okay. No, it's fine. It's absolutely true. I was, I was getting really frustrated, you know, over some circumstances, corporately, but it's changed. And I'm more excited about what we're doing than I've been in 17 years here. I'm really, really charged about this. I don't know how we didn't become friends before we did. I know, and I'm gonna probably die soon,

and then all of a sudden it's like, I could have been friends with him for like 20 years. I love the way you taunted me with that. You thought you were gonna get me go right back into my field? 20 years. I love the way you taunted me with that one. You thought you were gonna get me go right back into my field? No, no, no, I'm not that, and they looked, but. But yeah, I mean, it's funny.

Our past never really did cross, but. Well, they did once. They did once. Oh, you don't even know it. Not good. No, it was, I don't know if you remember. You want to talk about how things have changed. I it was, I don't know if you remember. You wanna talk about how things have changed. I wanna test your memory and see if you remember this.

Then I did the Ram Rod, I was very drunk. No, it wasn't. No. I thought I was going in. I thought I was, I honestly thought I was going into the eyehawk. And then things just got out of control. I'll tell you what it was. I went and said,

when did you know that guy named Ben? No, I saw him. I owe him like 20 bucks. Anyway, go ahead. There was a t-shirt I saw. I was in like Croatian. There was a t-shirt that said, I'm not gay, but 50 bucks is 50 bucks.

That's great. I'm not gay, but $50 is $50. That's great. So, I don't know if you remember this. This must have been in the mid-90s, maybe. There was some kind of a thing downtown, and it was a big event. And I think it was honoring lawyers or something. Well, I can say it's in the 90s. I would go do anything. You were there with a woman and I remember somebody said, oh my God Bill Mars over there

and I looked, I thought, wow, Bill Mars there. And I don't know if you remember this, but this, I will, I will tell you this because this is, this is insane. Do you remember a judge? Because you were there. There was a judge who got up and spoke, and the judge decided he wanted to be a comic. And he told a joke about a guy who was dating this girl and this woman or whatever, and they were in bed and he said something to her or did something and she said,

God, you were, you were a mind me of a pedophile. And he said, that's an awfully big word for a 13-year-old. You were there and I remember people gasped. Really? But the judge, nothing ever happened. I love that. Nothing ever happened. Nothing happened.

Great. You were there. I don't remember. But I say say, in the 90s, I was that guy who, the old line, he'd go to the opening of an envelope, you know. It was just like, it was that first, again, your theory, you were right, your first flush of getting invited to things was pretty great, you know, like, oh, you're now in the celebrity club and you get to, what're now in the celebrity club,

and you get to what, sit on the sidewalk down. I was no judge, tell a bitch. I was just, but it was some event, right? It was some big event. It was a big event. And I'm thinking, I don't invite Bill Mar. Yeah, wow. Bill Mar, when he was in high school,

didn't get invited to the party. So our college was a total wipe out socially. And that's the secret to life. That charge you get, you can't duplicate with a bigger house or another car. So what you've got to do is you've got to find new things. And that to me is the secret. Is that, you know, it's like for me, these documentaries, I have such a passion for this. And we're creating a scripted show and a game show and everything. And I love doing these new things. And you do this this what we're doing right now.

It's only a year old and it's a new thing and it's a great thing. And that's what keeps you young. Yes. Now you're pretty wait, you're reading my lines. Okay, I'm sorry. I mean, if we're going to an end, we're showing that we agree on things. We agree on, I mean, the times when you and I, it's just, we've only had one big argument. It's a pussy hair is different. No, we've had one big argument and that's it. Yeah, on what? The Beatles.

The Beatles, but it's hysterical that you, well, yeah, I mean, yeah, well, it's, I don't know how you look at that documentary and don't see the love between Lenin and McCartney. No, I saw the love there, but I don't know how you read the book that I told you to read here, they're in everywhere, and not understand that there was a bird's eye view this guy had that was very different. But he's also a guy who had an axe to groan. Why?

Because, well, I asked Martin Lewis, the ultimate beetle expert about that. So I can't share everything. But let's just say that there is, I mean, look, he's selling a book. People want to say things that will make other people buy the book. Let's just leave it at that. I mean, I don't take the guys word is gospel. I didn't take it as gospel. And it's memory from all those years ago. If it's true, then somehow they like went through a phase where they didn't love each other so much. And then by the time we actually saw it because I'm going to believe my lion eyes more than what I read in a book. My lion eyes, so eight hours or what was it,

ten hours? It was like 40 hours. Well, they shot in before all, but we saw, right. Okay. I get it. Of John Lennon and Paul McCartney, who it was so obviously that band always was them. That was, it was Lennon and McCartney.

I mean, there was that thing that Ringo and George's second class Beatles, you know, I didn't know how true that was. It is kind of true. When George Harrison threatened to quit, Paul and John had lunch. We didn't see that thing. They just had the audio, but they don't go, oh, how can we get our mate back in the band? They were immediately throwing him under the bus and talking about gathering Eric Clapton in there. There's a reason why George Quitt and Ringo Quitt at one point, it's there like,

talk, they're singing to each other, they're laughing with each other. John completely ignores Yoko. It's like she's not even there. He's so big. They brought his bed into the studio. Right, because she could just be there, but he ignores her.

But he and Paul McCartney, you can see it in their eyes. They have this incredible connection. I would think that you would want to embrace that. I would. Let's watch it together. Really, I haven't seen, I saw it once, I want to see it again. I would watch it again. Let's make a day to watch that I haven't seen, I saw it once, I want to see it again. I would watch it again.

Let's make a date to watch that like in a year. I love that. I loved that documentary. I don't think in one night we can. But we could do it like every, we could do it like every, I should every one night, pick a night in a month. I would totally do that. Like every Friday night we'll watch two hours.

You're not suggesting I don't like the Beatles, are you? No, I love, I'm, I'm, I'm, I love. No kidding. We, yes, that's the rock on which we found our church. All right, I know this is past your bedtime, so. I know. I know. I know.

I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I so appreciate you. I'll do your Christmas show if you still want me to. Oh, your book. Okay. Your book.

And the kids won't be meant to be if you can't wait. Really? I can't wait. Wait a second. Oh no. you