Club Random with Bill Maher - Jim Gaffigan | Club Random with Bill Maher

Episode Date: September 3, 2023

Bill Maher and Jim Gaffigan on the recent spate of comedian deaths, childhood dreams of comedians, the definition of being a good father, why men get married multiple times, the Royal who gave up the throne for love, the existential threat to late night talk shows, the person who should step in to solve the strikes, how someone catches the comedy bug, the gift Bill gave Jerry Seinfeld, their mutual love of Bob Costas, and the danger of micromanaging artists. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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They were so... I don't know. You do it too, I think. They were so afraid that we would see each other before it started like with the bride and groom. Like we can't see each other before the ceremony, you know. Well, what was gonna happen? It was gonna ruin our wedding night

if we saw each other before we started taping. I know, really? I mean, I am so thrilled to be here. I'm really set of a Paul Thomas Anderson movie. What? Is this Mac Nolier a Boogie Knight? Because it's like, okay. I'm so glad you brought that up, not specifically, but like Paul Thomas Anderson. Yeah.

Wes Anderson. Yeah. Okay. But I don't know the difference. I feel like at this moment, you could explain it to me, and then forevermore going forward in my life, I would not have this problem. Paul Thomas Anderson, now you say is Boogie Knights. Boogie Knights and Magnolia. It'sogie Knight's and Magnolia.

That's Tom Cruise's and Magnolia? Yes, he plays the inspiration. I don't remember, is it good? Yeah, I don't remember it. It's definitely very, it's like an actor's paradise, like monologues and stuff like that. And Wes Anderson is, I rush more and... Asteroid City and... That's the new one asteroid city.

Yes. Okay. Is much more of homosexual? No. Well, I would say he is much more of an artist. He has his own style. What's the other dude have? What just a super red camera?

He is much more of a... I think I like Paul Thomas Anderson better. I think Weson, name some other... Is he... There's another Anderson, too. Jim, I couldn't do two. How am I gonna do three? He did, kind of like, his British and he's married to the woman who was...

Oh. I know. Louis Anderson. Well, there's Louis Anderson. No, Louis God, isn't he? Yeah, yes. Oh. God, what a sweet guy, right? Boy, it's been a tough time for comic deaths lately.

Does it seem more lately or is it just because they're people who I... No, and like. And started with, so like, you know, could be me next. Is that why it's Gilbert and Norm McDonald and Bob Sagaate and Louis and I mean lots of good people. Yeah. And I'm sure other dead people I should be mentioning,

but yeah. No, there's tons of people. Is that, do you think it was a lot late, Leroy? Is that my just perception? I think that is part of the comedian thing to die, to be kind of reckless and to be, Really? Well, you know, not more than Kison or, you know, kind of,

I was going to say musicians of the reckless. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But Robert Shemmel, you know, things kind of, Robert Shemmel, but wasn't that cancer? That what? No, I think, yeah, I think it was cancer. I think it was ball cancer. Yeah. I think he got ball cancer, which is the think he got ball cancer, which is the scientific term for it. And then he died of something else, or maybe he did, I don't know,

but there's a lot of people, but. But don't you think, no, maybe this is every community, every profession, and I just know this because I'm in the comedic profession. But don't you think comedians are a complete, panoply, across the board of every type? It's funny.

Somebody at a party asked me the other night, they came up to me and said, this Russian girl. And she's like, I have a theory that only very smart people can be truly funny comedians. And I said, I've wished my whole life that was true, but it is not. Most comedians I think are pretty smart, but you definitely don't have to be smart. I'm sorry. And certainly to be very successful as a comedian. And I just think it

runs the gamut. You also can be a great person, like Leno, and I know you're out with Jerry Seinfeld, great human beings, or you can be a total schmuck. We've certainly had those. I just feel it's all across the board. I don't think there's a type. Well, I think comedians, you have to at least embrace. You have to have an understanding of a point of view. Right. You don't necessarily have to be the smartest person, but you have to be able to mind a certain kind of thing.

But the other point of view can just be, I'm fat. Right. And that's fucking funny. Yeah. When I just call myself on it, of course, if I did it, then it would be a hate crime. Right. Like, I can't really do, like, you're the genius

of marriage jokes. Oh, really? But thank you. Yeah. Well, I mean, you know, we could talk about marriage the whole time here, but not only is there enough material for like a great comic like you to do it, but for like almost every comic who's married has a wellspring of material about this subject. Oh, yeah. I do think that it's it's almost wrong for comedians to be married

in that I think that you know like even when any comedian gets married you're kind of like why would you do that to that person? Do you know what I mean? I've always said the same thing. Like, I understand why poor people get married, but celebrities, is ridiculous. Yeah, but it is, there is something about, I never, you know, I don't know. I never imagined that I'd be a comedian. So, the whole thing of, I never imagined,

I'd be married and have five kids. I didn't imagine that either. Right. Do you know what I mean? So it's, but you know, here we are in your, like in your wildest dreams. I mean, the success that you've encountered in your career, did you imagine that? Imagine that? Well, it's funny. When I think of what I imagined as successful, it always just goes along with masturbation.

Because like when I was 12 years old and masturbating, what was I thinking about when I was masturbating? That I had a talk show. And then it made me very attractive to girls. But like because I was 12, the talk show was literally like in a tent in my backyard. That was my fantasy. Because I had to find a way to be realistically attractive to the women who I was jerking off about who were like the hotties of the day like Ann Margaret or Judy Karn or you know Marlowe Thomas we're gonna come over to my backyard and

fuck a 12 year old but I had a talk show I was a 12 year old talk show host so I you know to answer your question I think I've been thinking about it a long time. Do you think that there is something about comedians that we are, because you know, like you always hear the musicians, I wanted to get the go, so I learned how to play the guitar. Is that kind of like comedians are like, they get attention from laughs in school. They have a taste for the power and the authority and then they're like, oh, there's an occupation where it could even be more of a... Because I do think that there is a transformative experience in how someone treats you when you become successful. Yeah, but I think when we start out dreaming,

like if you're, I guess you thought you wanted to be a comic when you were a kid, right? Absolutely. Okay, so we're kids. We're dreaming about that. Maybe yours wasn't as sexually interwoven as mine was, but you know, just where my balls led me was like, and I also liked being funny.

My father was a funny living room comedian. You want to emulate that. You see that making someone popular. So, yes, it's all woven together. What you have to learn at a certain point is that this dream, my dream of like, oh, yes, I'll be so funny, I'll be so successful. And then women like a rock start, no, that's not, music goes right to the pussy. Where's the comedian you go through the brain. So

it's actually a good thing when you mature and you understand, oh, that actually saved me a lot of grief because you want to go through the brain. Yes. Yes, absolutely. I mean, grief because you want to go through the brain. Yes, absolutely. I mean, with someone very hot, but through the brain. But at first you think, oh, yeah, show business, you know, you think you're gonna be Jerry Lewis and the Nutty Professor, you know, the Stella Stevens and wipe off the lipstick babe

and slide over, you know, it's gonna be buddy love. And no, it's actually you're saved by that. But what I was gonna say is, you know, like ethnic people can't make fun of, I mean, you can't make fun of someone else's ethnicity, but they can of themselves. Like, I feel like I can't do marriage jokes. Whereas married comedians, I feel like,

have this wellspring of material that I cannot access. Even though I get submitted them sometimes by my writers who are all married, it's like, but that's not me. So first of all, it doesn't ring true. And if it's like me making fun of marriage, that's not cool either, because again, you're not one of us, so you can't make fun of it.

Absolutely. And I feel as though there's even people that complain about, like, I repeatedly say children are horrible. And you do too. But you mean it. But there is also, there's a different takeaway from it in that But there is also, you know, there is, there's a different takeaway from it in that.

I'm kind of like, the reason my kids have ruined my life, whereas yours is more a theoretical theory that children are, yours is more WC fields, whereas mine is, you know. Guy with head and oven. Yes, and also it's kind of, it's, it actually reinforces that I'm a good father. Yes.

If I'm complaining it means I'm in the light. And also, I mean, you're totally right that I am on the outside of this tent pissing in. I, I, marriage, I feel like I can be a little more relatable because I have been in long-term, long-term, like a term like prison. Yeah. Well, what am I trying to say?

You're saying. I had an extended sense. I haven't been in long relationships. Well, for me long, I mean, three years, five years, you know, but you know, you get the same flavor. And you have the same problems of marriage, which is that you're with the same person, communicating, seeing every day, same sex, you know, those are, that is the fundamental issue that is, I always think, the part of marriage that's a difficult part is, things grow stale, you can't help but we're human beings.

So I feel like I can relate to that. I know what that feels like, I know what problems that causes, and then the different ways people have to try to solve that problem. I know men who like leave their wives after 20 years are horrible and I'm sure they are, but my question was always, as opposed to what? Okay, the love has gone completely out of this marriage. What are the options? To me, they would be suck it up, be cheat, or see leave.

There's no good options here. Right, right. So you're saying, okay, leaving is not an option because that makes him evil or hurt, could happen the other way around. So leaving is not good. Cheating, I don't think is what we want, but okay, not a lot to that either.

So suck it up. That's the answer. It's like you're not happy. You're, and I've went through more than a few divorces with friends my age, guys. And, you know, I know how they feel. Like I could not, they say I could not last one more day. And the roots go deep in our relationship and blah, blah, blah.

And the kids and I felt blah, blah, blah. And they just, you know, had to get out. And then of course they marry the first girl who gives a man job after that. Yeah. I think it's also fascinating how there's the judgment for people that break up. And then there's also, you know, and then some people have been married five or six times and people don't have, like, you know, New Gengrich, you know, he really doesn't get that much blow. I mean, Trump's been married multiple times. And why there is-

Go to both three. What's that? Both three. But like that's still like a lot. And by the way, I'll give a pass because culturally, maybe there, you know, the first round it was this or the second round, but it is, you know, that is a pattern. And so why is... And I'm not even, I don't even necessarily have a

point. I'm just saying, I just think it's interesting how... Very interesting. I think about people who marry the same person more than once. That's really interesting. Yeah. Talk about, you know, Larry Miller had that great joke about it. It's like going in the refrigerator, taking out the milk, smelling it and going, hmm, this is sour. Maybe it'll be better tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I, some people just have to be married. That's the thing. They, they can't be alone. No, some people just have to be married. That's the thing. They can't be alone. I think this all goes back to the personality

that we were forged into us when we were two. You know, they Freud said, or Erickson, one of them said, all our personalities are made very young. And for some of us abandoned many issues, whatever it is, some people cannot be alone. So they always have to be with somebody. Then it becomes a thing of, okay, some people also cannot break that pattern of,

well, you meet somebody if it starts to go well, you proceed down this path. We like each other, now we're more serious, now we're exclusive, now I move in, then we get engaged, then we get married, we have kids like it's a whole path you go down. And to me it's like going down a river, it's a lovely trip, and then there's the falls. Because once you go, this is why I always say, I never go all the way to Baghdad. You know, I kick Saddam Hussein.

You're more HW, right? Out of Iraq. But I do not go all the way to Baghdad. And you put in the no-fly thing. That's right. That's it. Air cover, yes. But no ground troops.

You'll get every country to join you. That's right. And that decision. Graded alliance building, but no ground troops. I just think it's, you know, it's the pottery barn rule. You break it, you bought it, but yeah, I think that's the deal. I kind of forgot what we were saying. But I don't think anyone knows what they're doing in relation to.

They don't. We're all, and we're all so different. We're different. But I also think it's really interesting how, you know, I don't even know if I'm using Zyke guy in the right way, where some people can get divorced and it is devastating like people are critical of them. And then some people get divorced and it is devastating. Like people are critical of them. And then some people get divorced and they're like,

oh, well, no, that's, that's, that's, you join them saying? Oh, totally. Like if, yeah. If Prince Harry and Meghan Markle got divorced right now, people would probably vilify her and feel sorry for him. But we don't know what's going on. Why would you hear?

I heard they're on the rocks. Really? I don't know anything. Yes, I did. I'd like to start spreading the rumor now. Well, wouldn't you think that marriage is under a lot of pressure right now? Because they kind of fucked up their whole thing. They kind of went way too hard on where victims,

and they assessed the mood of their generation and America correctly, in that we are lovers of victimhood. But America did finally find a way to say, you know what, we love victims, but you too, we just had a little too much of it. And to push us to that moment, I think, it's an achievement in itself.

I had this joke about his... Dick? No, about his, I guess his uncle or his grandfather? His grandfather's brother, you know, the guy that gave up Edward who gave up being king. Of course. And how like everyone's been in love and they're like, I would do anything for this person, but like after about three years he was taking the garbage out, it was like, I couldn't

have been king. Do you know what I mean? Well, absolutely. And so, because even in the best relationships that happen, so I think that, yeah, there's probably times where it's like, you're talking about Queen Elizabeth's father. Yes. No, Queen Elizabeth's uncle.

Uncle, yeah. Right. Queen Elizabeth's uncle. Queen Elizabeth becomes Queen in 1952. Right. This is Edward, he abdicated in 19... Because he was just married a divorcee. Right, an American divorcee. Who, you know, not that looks as everything,

but I wouldn't call her, you know, I didn't see what the physical attraction might have been. But, you know, I mean, Charles, I mean, lady, what's your name? Diana, he, no, no, the one he's married to now. Oh yeah. You know, Camilla. Camilla, isn't it? Camilla, isn't it?

Camilla, Camilla, Camilla, Camilla, yeah. Okay, you know, the one who he said he wanted to be a tampon, do you remember this camera? Yeah, but you know, I feel like that's, it's a funny that we're talking about this because this is like, this is their gossip. This isn't even our gossip.

Right, I tell you what I mean. I always think the same thing. Why are we so interested in these motherfuckers? Right. But we don't have royalty except the Kardashians. So, you know. So are you friends with the Kardashians? Well, I always make this distinction

in Hollywood, this friends and friendly. I'd be happy to be friends with them. Chris, did this right where you're sitting? Chris, Chris. Chris, Chris. Chris, Chris. Chris, Chris. Chris, Chris.

Chris, Chris. Chris, Chris. Chris, Chris, Chris. Chris, Chris, Chris. Chris, Chris, Chris. Chris, Chris, Chris. Chris, Chris, Chris. Chris, very nice. You know, that's a thing about the Kardashians. There are people say they're lucky. Well, there is some luck in every success. I think they're more Armenian. You know, Armenians are kind of like the Jews

of the Caucasus, you know? They're the breeders. They have what? They're the big breeders. Big breeders. I think they said breeders. That's until that's a little racist. Come on,

we're happy when people are breeding. Now, they got their own section of the old city in Jerusalem. There are many. Yes, there, who doesn't in Jerusalem? No, but there's a whole quarter. Oh, I mean, I have. That's the one exotic place I've been and I know what we did religious there.

Yes, there's, but lots of people have their little every sect from all these different sects with all their different funny hats. Yes, the Mormons are there too. The Mormons, the Christians, we were there, Christmas, we filmed Christmas week. I remember coming back to the hotel, exhausted after a 12-hour day out on the dusty wherever we were.

And there was a very, very skinny Arab kid in a Santa uniform in the lobby. It would have been hired all the mad Christmas, my friend. Oh, wow. So, women, could your father was Catholic and your mother was Jewish. Correct. And I believe you've met my lawyer, Mr. Yeah, but first forgive me father, for yeah, I believe you were in grade school watching the tonight show when I came on gym. That was a good one. Yeah, that was a good one. Johnny loved that one. Johnny was dope. one. Johnny loved that one.

Johnny was dope. Right? Johnny was who I wanted to be. Well, by the way, can we talk about this? By the way, I'm hijacking this show. I think that there's something really interesting that's, I mean, obviously we're in the middle of a strike, but there, I mean, in the landscape of late night shows, and I love all those guys. I do. But like, the one that hasn't, because the formula of real time is obviously it's less of a celebrity interview,

churn and burn thing. But it hasn't felt any of the effects of that. Like I think this strike is going to kill the late night show that we broke. Why the strike killing it? I don't get it. I don't know why. Well because it's off the air.

Right, but why hasn't, this is again, no knock on the guys who do it, but I don't know how this art form has survived up until now. I mean, I understand why I'm on, because I'm on HBO. It's an hour without commercials. And I mean, sorry, it's a lot more entertaining. It's a lot more edgy, it's a lot more unpredictable, and it's true talk. I get that.

What I don't get is this era of watching, who is still about what sponsors are sponsoring a show that's on after most people go to bed, in an era when you can do anything at any time. You know, you can watch anything. You get into bed, you can watch Netflix, you can watch HBO, you can watch YouTube, you want anything that was ever made or do video games. Even if you wanted to watch this late night stuff, wouldn't you watch it sometime when you

could zip through the commercials or just see the stuff you like, it just seems so anachronistic. I don't know how it survives till now. It is interesting. I mean, I can see why the personalities of a Jimmy or Jimmy or co-bear do work though because people develop a relationship, they want to hear co-bearers take about the day, they want to see a... It's not a take. Those guys don't have takes. I have takes. I have a take on things. What they do is say exactly what a liberal audience wants them to say about that.

That's not a take. I mean, I'm not saying it's not sincere, I guess it is on their part, but even if it wasn't, that's what they would do. There's never a moment where you don't know exactly, oh, this is the correct point of view on that. The strike is a perfect example. Those guys would never go back.

This strike would go on till the 24th century, they would stay out. I feel for my writers, I love my writers, I'm one of my writers, but there's a big other side to it, and a lot of people are being hurt besides them. A lot of people don't make as much money as them. In this bipartisan world we have, where you're just in one camp or the other, there's no in between. You're either for the strike, like they're fucking Shagwa Vera out there. You know, like this is Cesar Chavez lettuce picking strike or you're with Trump. You know, there's no different. There's only two camps and it's much more complicated than that.

It is, but I do feel like there is a lot of the points, a lot of the grievances I kind of agree with. I do understand that they're getting screwed a bit by the streamers, yes. Yeah, I mean, it's a change and you either, it's like anything that is, I believe in free market, but I also believe in trust and then verify, right?

What does that mean? Meaning, you don't trust, like the reason, I mean, Zazlove made $400 million and I think they're looking for $80 million for, it's like, they're gonna grow, you know, you leave a kid in front of a bowl of marshmallows, they're gonna eat the marshmallows. It's not like some grand thing.

It's, Well, I don't know, what are you saying? They're only asking for $80 million. Well, I'm saying that. They're asking for a you're saying. They're only asking for 80 million dollars. Well, I'm saying that. They're asking for a lot of things. They're asking for a lot of things. Better like cookie. Like what I find objectionable about the philosophy of this strike, it seems to be they have really morphed a long way from 2007 strike where they kind of believe

that you're owed a living as a writer and you're not. This is show business, this is a maker misleague. And not everybody makes it. You don't think that like they should, that streamer should reveal numbers so that they can have a different thing. Oh, maybe, sure, sure. Oh, I'm not saying they don't have points. You know, maybe that's what-

They're like these micro rooms are, I mean, the TV shows that we used to watch were 22 episodes, 26 episodes. And, okay, but you're, this is so. No, I know, I know things change. But what I'm saying is that like, it's not just that. It's also these shows, you know, the life of a show is now two years. So I'm not saying that, like, hey, tough nougies, that's what happens.

I'm saying that, like, if they're making all their money, if streamers are making all their money or someone's making all their money in the first year, then if the writers are constructed, their deals are constructed on working for a couple of years, and that's removed, then they should probably recalibrate how they get compensated. I don't disagree. There should be recalibration, and I think everybody else knows that. No. I think it's even scarier than what you're describing,

because it's like Zazlove and Amazon and Netflix and Apple, they aren't in the entertainment industry. They're in the business. That's not true. Well, you know, like. They are in the entertainment industry, big time. Apple and, you know, if Apple and Amazon, which I have a tech industry big time. Apple, and if Apple and Amazon, which I have a new special on,

merge, they'd be apples on. No, but if they. Now at Apple's on Google, Mark, there's one store. They make their money in different ways, don't they? They do. They have a big pile of money, obviously, that especially Apple and Amazon have the source of money that is not entertainment, whereas entertainment

can be basically their side piece, which it is. That doesn't mean they don't take it seriously or that they don't want to succeed. You don't want to lose money. And they just want the prestige. You don't think Apple and Amazon. Oh, they want to be at those word shows. Of course they do, and they want to make good television,

and they want to make money. And this is, there's nothing that's more guaranteed than Americans are gonna sit on their fat fucking asses and watch a lot of screens. Yeah. So you really need to get into that business. But you're right. They have crazy money But he see here's the thing the technology as you are I think correctly point out it changes and then

Everything else has to change behind it. That's the problem is that Somebody had a great line that they said it's like they're dinosaurs suing the ice age You know when the technology changes that's the dealer in this game, is the technology. What it deals you are the cards you have to play. Now in the earlier strike, the writers went out and what did TV do? They invented the reality show and put more of them out of work than ever. This time, they're striking against the streamers who are, we're looking for a get out of jail card for how much they overspent.

They have tons of stuff in stock, so they have no reason to want to like settle this strike. So they struck it reason to want to like settle this strike. So they struck it just the wrong time. They have no leverage. Has anyone who's watching TV, I think Scott Galloway pointed this out, has anybody who's watching TV recently noticed a difference? Has it affected the person down the pipeline? I don't think so.

I haven't noticed a difference. Now at some point, I guess that will happen. And what that's going to, like, what day is that when that comes, when Netflix runs out of what they have at the in the warehouse. And then what, we all demand that the studios settle with the writers. I mean, they're going to settle at some point. There's going to be a number. with the writers. I mean, they're going to settle at some point. There's going to be a number. But you have to get into a room. My other question about this is why doesn't the governor of the state of the state of California, which this is a very big business in? This is entertainment. We're like what cars are to Detroit. Why doesn't he? Jawbone. You know, jawbone, when presidents get the leaders of industries

who are at odds in a room and crack their heads together and say, Why would you want to alienate the money or the most important voices? Oh, now you've opened an interesting can of worms, Mr. Gaffing, and so, first of all, you think that Gavin Newsom is running for president? I think he is the likely alternative.

That's interesting because I remember, I like Gavin a lot. Now, I hope he runs for president because I think getting to the national stage would help with the one thing I have trouble with him about, which is sometimes he's way too cuckoo, woke left, bullshit, you know, the California. Well, he was shit.

It was the mayor of San Francisco, right? Yeah, but, you know, that was a different time. And fighting for gay rights was, you know, a great thing. No. At a time when that fight was still going on and needed to be fought on that level. I remember moving to New York in the early 90s, and I think there was, you know,

like I think some gay activists had shut down the Brooklyn Bridge, and everyone was like, what the hell is going on? Really? And they want equal rights. And everyone was like, they should have equal rights. And they want to get married. It's like, in 1990, people were like, well, they don't need to get married.

Right. They don't need to get married. Exactly. So like, the thing is, is me even saying that now, sounds incredibly insensitive. I mean, Barack Obama was like, I believe in civil unions, and then he evolved. Right, right.

But like, so, I mean, there's all this stuff, I'm kind of like, why not just to error on the side of compassion on some of this? I'm not talking about like, the total kukus stuff. Well, liberals have always been on the side of compassion. I'm also on the side of reality. Everybody's always busy and it's hard to find

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Are you from Indiana, right? I am. Yes. And so, I always see that's funny. I see you with so Midwest. I know. I mean, not in a good way, because I love the and I mean that in a good way because I love the Midwest and I love playing there and I love the people because you know when you're in the Midwest no one is looking around the room to see if there's a bigger star right because when I'm in the room there never is

because around the Midwest anyway but uh No, I've lived in New York for 30 years and people in New York don't even know I live there. Yeah, you know Martin Scorsese used to say this funny story about he lived in California for 10 years. And he said the entire 10 years I was out here, people would see me at a party, at a party. And they'd always say the first thing, how long you out here for? I live here. It just doesn't compute that Martin Scors he lives in California. It doesn't make sense. And you don't live in you still live in Indiana. Yeah. No, where do you so you what what neighborhood I live in the East Village.

Yeah, I bet you do. There was some pricey, nice East shit there. Yeah, that's good. You East Village, you're hip within me. I'm out here in my suburban. But you know, during the pandemic, we got a place in Westchester, and I love it. But we're mostly in city. Yeah. You're very successful at you.

But I never thought that I'd growing up in suburbia, I never thought that I would want to, I thought that it was horrible. And, you know, I got some land. I mean, you've got a nice place here. So let's go back to the thing you said, about like, when you were, why don't you say, like, what were you dreaming of when,

like, I knew I wanted to be a comic when I was, I would, I would say, seven. Wow. Really, I knew I wanted to be a comic when I would say seven. Wow. Really, I remember the mother's brothers had a show before their famous show. I'm sure the kids were like, what famous show? Okay, well, they had a famous show, kids. But then they had a sitcom.

Where, did you know this? It was like early, it was like one of the first shows I watched. It was a sitcom where Tommy was an angel. Really? Yeah. Okay, so I used to, and he had to like this kind of stuttering way of delivering his comedy. That was his stick. And I imitated that when I was seven.

I remember at a Christmas party. I do have that memory and I think I was seven. I'm imitating Tommy's mother's and getting laughs. Yeah. You know, of course your answer are pretty easy crowd. Just about to take your seven and you're adorable. You just, you know, but I would think that the, I kind of maybe got the bug that night, you know.

Yeah. No, you sit there and you wonder where you get the bug. Because there's the bug. And by the way, a lot of people get the bug but some people Like in my family, I'm considered third funniest, but I'm the only one that went into it Well, I think they flatter themselves. No, well, you know, I mean some bit there are Funny people that don't take the plunge, right? There are funny people that don't take the plunge, right? Well, they're up, I mean, it's so hard to handicap.

When I think about like all the people I started with, I'm sure if you handicap that field, you know, sign felled, certainly, we were contemporaries, and you know, Larry David, and stage five. Some of them were, what? Stage five. What's that?

His five stages of drinking. Larry Miller. No, does that Larry Miller? Oh, did you say? I meant to say Larry David. Larry David, oh, sorry. They were, Jerry and Larry are a little before him. And you're, you on the road with Jerry's side for them?

I'm doing some shows. Now why do you, why do the two of you who need help selling tickets, not at all, why are you working together? Just because you like it. Yeah, I mean, well, it's one of, it's similar to the conversation we're having and why you are probably doing this because it's fun to hang out with other comedians. That's true. I should. And so it is, it gives us an opportunity to do a show, and we do this in New York City all the time. We'll do a show at Gotham, and then we'll hang out afterwards. Usually just for half an hour, 45 minutes,

and it will just be talking about comedy because some of it is, you know, like I think of Jerry as kind of this comedy Socrates, you know, where you can sit there and for sure, you remove, you know, he doesn't engage in gossip. He engages in discussions of comedy, which all comedians do. but we can sit there and, you know, the, some of it is the craft of joke writing is, you know, it's fun. And he was, you know, it's funny, but he was, he was ahead from the beginning. Like, there was never a time, like, I got to New York in 79.

I think he was a couple of years before me. I think he started in 76 at the company. Yeah. So, but he was always like, this calm head of the class guy, like, not arrogant about it, just was like aware. I think he was like, of what you had to do to like, get on TV and be successful and like do this act that was Like everyone could get yeah, but insulted not this one did not insult the smartest person in the room

We also loved it. I certainly did yeah that I mean just to maintain that you know and for his birthday I gave him this little rabbit that I had made His hard to find a rabbit, you can find a bunny. But, you know, I always, because I was saying to him, you know, he was always the rabbit that we were chasing. Oh, wow. And I had it inscribed to the rabbit we never caught.

Oh, wow. You know, because, and it's funny, right from the beginning, you know, and it's funny, he and Leno, he and Leno, who was, you know, another giant, you know, maybe the two successful, most successful ones, in the last 40 years, right, I mean, it's an Icho for 12, you know, a sign felt. Also, like, the two solidest people. I hope that says something good about comedians in general, like the two, don't you agree? Like the most like, you would not

be wrong. People have that what would Jesus do, bracelet? What would Lennon do? Right. Right. What would Jerry do? Because they just don't do shady, sloppy, wrong thing. They're very mature, way more mature than me. Yeah. And also inexhaustible. Yes. Right. Iron J.

It's not good. It's not good enough. No, we'll find something else. Oh, I see that too. Like Jerry's always, there's something. I kind of call him a robot, because he doesn't get distracted by emotions. Do you know what I mean?

He could be an alien. Like, there's something, yes, that's right. I understand, but of course that's not true. He's very human. Yeah. I love on his show that he, like, on the coffee show, he's so much more curmudgeonly than maybe partly because of age.

You know, he's older than he was on his show. Or maybe just, you know, it's a different forum. But I love that side of him. That he's got a lot of W.C. fields in him, too. Well, I know patients with, you know, people's, I think that's the greatest compliment of a comedian is if you can go beyond a decade. Because I think that there is something, you know, as we sit there and we talk about the zeitgeist shifting and things and norms changing and stuff like that. And they should

be questioned and everything. But like, if you can't see the rules in front of you and adjust and recalibrate, that's, right. Deeram saying, like that's why Karlin was so special, that's why you know, Seinfeld, that's why, I mean, I don't think people give Chris Rock enough respect.

It's like, he's like a master joke writer, but like, he was the, in some ways, the king of the 90s, and then 2023 is still kicking. You know what I mean? Oh, no, he's great. I'm so his last one. Yeah, because he was always, stand up first. Like he never gave it up for acting. It was like, yeah, I can fit in both.

Just like, I do real time and I never gave up stand up because I never would, why would I? And some of it, I remember I seeing you on, remember Bob Costa's show? Was it later? Yes, I did, oh, I remember doing that. It was when I was first on the air And remember Bob Costa's show? Was it later? Yes.

I did, oh, I remember doing that. It was when I was first on the air with politically incorrect. And it was like- You talked about laugh years. Oh, I, I, God, it was 1994, who the fuck knows? What I talked about, you remember that? I don't remember. But I do remember feeling very arrived

because I did, because that was a great show, but it was a great show. And it was also a one-on-one, like you had to be somebody that, okay, so it was 130 in the morning, but it was still a show that, you know, I'd seen a lot of cool people on it. Yes, yeah.

A lot of musicians. Yeah. And he was, and he's also a sponge. And he's great, oh. Oh. You know, he has been acknowledged. And he's, and he's also a sponge. And he's great, oh. Oh, you know, he is a lumbar. And the knowledge and the costus is amazing. Not just sports. Yeah.

What a mind. What do you do on the road? What do you like, like you're going, when you say you're having a tour, like I go for weekends and that's like, I'm, yeah, no, I'm mostly weekends. Oh good. Yeah, I'm mostly weekends.

And I'm, you know, it's ever evolving. You know, sometimes it's, you know, smaller theaters where I can get reps and sometimes it's bigger theaters. When you get what? Repetition, you know. Repetition. So I can do two a night, like the Wilbur and Boston. You do two shows a night?

I know. But it's good for... Okay. It's for, you know, you know, oh good. Is there another glass there? Yeah. Or is that for your booze? I can use this one.

This one. Yeah, this is a clean glass. You want water? Sure. Is that sparkling? No. Baby needs water. No, is this my glass?

You like that. What is that? That's my stevia soda. Stevia soda. Yeah, it's good. Put it on ice. I feel like some English guy do a commercial. What was I just talking about? Try it on ice.

The, what? I don't know what we were just talking about. Signfold or something? Yeah, the store. Oh no, you're- Oh, I do different size venues. You do two shows a night, you're nine. Sometimes, sometimes.

You have to stop hanging out with Seinfeld so much. Hang out with me a little. Sometimes. I'm gonna corrupt you. I'm gonna be the person. This is why wives don't like me. They really, you think your wife would like me. I, yes.

Oh good. Well, she, you know, she would probably argue with you, but you you wouldn't want someone that would just agree with you Why not of course I would unless I'm wrong What I don't understand that thing where people are like ah my wife I lever she keeps me grounded. Oh Joy I was doing all this soaring and luckily I have this bitch that's laughing back now. No. Yeah, I don't like people who like, are controversial sometimes just for the sake

of being controversial. You know, just if you truly disagree about something, of course, but mostly... Be a good hang. Be a good hang. Yeah. Be a good hang, like... Yeah. Like, are we having to fight a bit of a normal?

Isn't that what life is all about? I think so. Yeah, that's a pretty damn important thing. I think so. So... But... Well, I love acting, and I think that's... I'm convinced that when I get on a movie set,

that that's my M.O. It's like, yeah, you're actually a good actor. Oh, thanks. I was very surprised. I'm like, I want Because and some of it is having had my own show and been on the other side I'm like, oh, I'm not gonna be the pain in the ass. I'm not gonna be that because you know some actors About friends that I love, you you know they're just kind of oh they have a habit of complaining or something like that or they're kind of just there's a problem whereas like what you want when you're on set is you want a soldier and so when I get on set I'm a shoulder and I'll pitch ideas and if they don't like them, I don't, I'm not a shit. I don't get in the way.

And it's exactly the right attitude to have them. Right, I mean, I'm sure when you're dealing with your writers on your show, you're like, please pitch ideas, but don't throw a fit if I don't. Oh, they know. Spongebob. They, of course, know this years ago. Yeah, I mean, that's the first thing

you have to understand as a writer. And not to get back to that writer's strike shit, but like really, there are some cookie ideas about like every writer's room, I think they're demanding to have 10 people. Okay, that is micromanaging the creative process. And there is already... Really, that's part of the thing. It's certainly what I heard. There was already... Really? That's part of the thing. Certainly what I heard.

Wow. I mean, it was written on the bathroom wall at Mr. Chow's. No, that's my understanding is that that's one of the demands is every writer's room has to have ten writers. I mean, CBS already has a rule. Every writer's room has to be 50% people of color. And my joke was, one of it to show about a poker band in the ski town. Yeah.

Still? You know, I'm all for diversity, of course. I'm all for... What if it's the TV version of women talking, which was all that. Right. White women in the cult. I mean, number of people, makeup of people, I mean, this is not the creative process. The creative process cannot work under these circumstances of having someone stand over

your shoulder and tell you how to do the job of creating a piece of art. Would you agree with that? Well, I think that's, I mean, I agree with the premise of that's why HBO succeeds is that they don't get in the way of the creative people, right? Isn't that right? It's correct.

You are completely correct. And that is how they made their- And that's why the streamers, right? Isn't that right? It worked. Correct. You are completely correct. And that is how they made their... And that's why the streamers, you know. And that's how HBO had that all to themselves for a long time. They were the only ones doing that, which is why everyone wanted to work there. And then of course, the other knuckleheads at some point caught on and was like, okay, I get it.

You only attract the big talent when you make the deal with them that you let them do what they do. And HBO has had plenty of flops. Anybody remember John from Cincinnati? Or hung? I mean, I saw. Yeah, it wasn't terrible.

But I'm just saying, not everything is a home run. And that's what they let the people do. They artists sometimes fail. Yeah. But their batting average is very high and very good. And that's, you know, but yes, once you start this micromanaging comrad, I just think we're off into a not a good place. I know they got mad at Mike White

because he writes white lotus all by himself. Oh really? Yeah. And a lot of the great writers do. Yeah. They just don't, I don't think Aaron Sorkin needs a big writer's room. And if he does, can he decide how many and who? No? Because that is

getting a little communist for me. Yeah. Hey, I got you to agree with that. Yeah, no, I agree. I know. You live in the East Village. Who's the weirdest part? I guess you can't. Jimmy, you live in the East Village and you know, I know it's all the hippies they get out of your mind. You know you're really the hippie. I'm open to new. I know. So who is the craziest you can cut this out of the podcast? Who is the person that's been most wasted in here that I would be shocked. We don't cut anything out of the podcast unless you want to cut out.

But I don't want to like if you're like Clinton was passed out on that couch No, I think it I Because I feel like the intimacy here is that you're like you can come here and get fucked up And don't worry about it. You have you if you have to watch the Richard drivers episode and that will answer your question and I'm very fond of Richard Reifers. Yeah. And I think it is a tribute to him that I believe he had a back issue and may have needed some medication for that.

But I mean, he is a horizontal in that chair for a lot of the show. And that's what... That will never happen again. And to his great credit, if you just listen to it, you don't know that this guy is three quarters of the way to the floor. Yeah, because he's still a engaging, interesting, intelligent man and speaker. And he, again, intelligent man and speaker.

And he, again, it's kind of like the Kennedy Nixon debates. You know, they said if you, the people who listened to the debates on radio thought that Nixon won. But the people who watched the debate on TV thought Kennedy won because Kennedy was good looking and Nixon was sweating and had a five o'clock shadow and look like Nixon. So, yeah, it's kind of like that.

The people who just heard Richard Dreyfus, they thought he won the debate. But when you saw it, but no, I mean, I don't ever like force people to smoke or drink. I mean, it's just, you know, I wanted to create an atmosphere here with the cameras basically unnoticeable. Yes, so smart. Hidden the walls.

So, nobody else in the room, and just talk with people who I would be doing this with anyway, maybe. If we, people are not playing to someone that's laughing over there. It's, no. And there's my friend. Yeah, it's like, or like, hey dude, look this up on the computer.

I mean, it's just, it just makes, that's not like life, that's not what life is. When I actually hang out with my friends at home, I don't like having to do it on the computer to look it up. You know, I could look it up myself on me, like Magic Lightbox. But I want to visit you in Greenwich Village. I want to see your house.

I want to meet the kids. Oh, it's just I guess. I know. And so how often? Just to see if I'd made the right decision. I feel like you are the perfect person to give me the... It's so that you won't regret any of it, because I live in chaos.

I live in pretty much a chaos. How old is the youngest one? 10, and the oldest is 19. And I love them, and I would do other things. Of course, blah, blah, blah, disclaimer. I love my kids. Who's ever gonna be out there going, you know what, I fucking hate my kids. But, okay, but I would like to,

not just visit, I'd like to spend the night. I would like to sleep in your bed. And, so, this may sound a little Michael Jackson, but I'd like to sleep with no. I'm kidding. Yeah, I, I, I mean, we all wonder sometimes whether we chose the right path in life. I feel like you, we could do a, what would it be?

We could do a freaking Friday. Yes, let's, I was gonna say, or we could do a whole show where we switch, you know, like that's a very popular thing they do. Movies and TV shows. Wife swap. Wife swap or, but there's also movies where like Ryan Reynolds' body goes into Christian Slater.

Yeah, yeah. And it's always people who are exactly us. That's where it would work for us, because we are actually opposites on that, you know? Like you would be crazy. And then the lesson in the end is like, I like my own life. Right.

Right. You would definitely be my end. I miss my pot. I miss my kid. Exactly. Oh shit. Oh yeah. Boy, shit. Oh, yeah. Boy, we've been in here.

Wait a minute. Do we have to stop? Yeah. I wouldn't have. I'm such a good time, but only because Sharon's here. Yeah. And we have to, you know, for economic reasons, you have to shoot two in a day. I understand.

And you don't want to make her wait. I don't want to make it. No, that's not fair to her. But I could talk to you for a lot longer when I'm staying over. We'll catch up. We'll stay over. And I'd like to also help. We're all going to Hawaii.

You're flying my whole family to Hawaii. Oh, that's over. You're not doing that, honey? No, I pulled the plug after last year. What's up? You know why doing that, honey? No, I pulled the plug after last year. What's up? You know why? Because victim of my own success, when I started that, nobody would even book Hawaii.

They said it's a completely dead market. And we proved that it is not a dead market. And now everybody wants to do it. New year is, of course. Why wouldn't you want to be in Hawaii New Year's? You can't get that. The blazed hell. Anybody who I could, you know, I always brought two comics.

Anybody who I could get who would sell tickets can do it on their own. So they do. So there's way more competition. It's hard. You know, it's just, it just became... And do you have a place in Hawaii? No. Well then why don't we do it in...

April. No. Why don't we do it in April? No, or why don't we do it in... I'm good at Hawaii? Tahiti. Well, I gotta stay over in the village first. I gotta test your family out. But like, if... I don't just take any family with me on vacation.

Or why don't we go somewhere in Mexico? You know, why don't you and the wife have a romantic night, I'll take the kit. Oh, my God. All. Alright. Alright, cool. But that was... I'm finishing this drink, but... How do I find it? So I can't even watch Sharon.

That's a no now. Of course you can. No, but it's like I can't do the third wheel. I'm a brand new