Club Random with Bill Maher - Joel Edgerton | Club Random with Bill Maher

Episode Date: January 12, 2026

Bill sits down with award-buzzed actor Joel Edgerton for a sharp, funny, and moving conversation that jumps from Hollywood absurdities to deeply personal truths. They dig into Edgerton’s career-defining performance in Train Dreams, and why stories about ordinary people, loss, and resilience can hit harder than any superhero spectacle. Edgerton opens up about early struggles and the love that carried him through, while Maher shares a bizarre first “job” as an unqualified bodyguard for a South African diplomat’s kids. Along the way, they talk about how Australian actors seem to be quietly running Hollywood—and that most American accents these days were probably learned in Sydney watching Leave It to Beaver. Support our Advertisers: -Head to https://www.squarespace.com/CLUBRANDOM to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code CLUBRANDOM. -Get 50% off your first box plus free breakfast for 1 year at https://www.factormeals.com/random50off Subscribe to the Club Random YouTube channel: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/c/clubrandompodcast?sub_confirmation=1⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Watch episodes ad-free – subscribe to Bill Maher’s Substack: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://billmaher.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you listen: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/ClubRandom⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Buy Club Random Merch: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://clubrandom.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices ABOUT CLUB RANDOM Bill Maher rewrites the rules of podcasting the way he did in television in this series of one on one, hour long conversations with a wide variety of unexpected guests in the undisclosed location called Club Random. There’s a whole big world out there that isn’t about politics and Bill and his guests—from Bill Burr and Jerry Seinfeld to Jordan Peterson, Quentin Tarantino and Neil DeGrasse Tyson—talk about all of it.  For advertising opportunities please email: [e-mail] ABOUT BILL MAHER Bill Maher was the host of “Politically Incorrect” (Comedy Central, ABC) from 1993-2002, and for the last fourteen years on HBO’s “Real Time,” Maher’s combination of unflinching honesty and big laughs have garnered him 40 Emmy nominations. Maher won his first Emmy in 2014 as executive producer for the HBO series, “VICE.” In October of 2008, this same combination was on display in Maher’s uproarious and unprecedented swipe at organized religion, “Religulous.” Maher has written five bestsellers: “True Story,” “Does Anybody Have a Problem with That? Politically Incorrect’s Greatest Hits,” “When You Ride Alone, You Ride with Bin Laden,” “New Rules: Polite Musings from a Timid Observer,” and most recently, “The New New Rules: A Funny Look at How Everybody But Me Has Their Head Up Their Ass.” FOLLOW CLUB RANDOM https://www.clubrandom.com https://www.facebook.com/Club-Random-101776489118185 https://twitter.com/clubrandom_ https://www.instagram.com/clubrandompodcast https://www.tiktok.com/@clubrandompodcast FOLLOW BILL MAHER https://www.billmaher.com https://twitter.com/billmaher https://www.instagram.com/billmaher Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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all designed to support your relationship with green, wink, wink, whatever, and whatever philosophy comes with that for you. Head to ClubRandum.com and bring home some random. He's just too pretty. What are you saying about me? Well, you're fine. You're a nice looking guy. I'm down the middle.

No, but I'm actually not. Yeah, because I... You just caught me at a low intelligence point. I was like, oh, that was a joke. Joel, you here? I'm here. Oh, none of that Australian accent here. At least you can do a speak American when you're in our country.

Oh, my God. I'm going to call ice on you. No. I was watching your thing about Australians. Oh, wow, come on. You're right. I was just skiing in Japan. And I didn't actually feel like I was in Naseko.

I didn't feel like I was in Nesko. There were Australians everywhere working in the hotel, all the ski instructors, New Zealanders or Australians. I met a bunch of them last night. I was out at a Golden Globe party. Oh, yeah. And, boy, they like me in Australia. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I mean, that whole bit was so far. I was 10 years ago. It was when Trump was first talking. about immigration and you know we did this is the you know classic mode of satire i went off on a rant how it's really the australians are coming but there is that little bit of truth in it is that they have done so well with acting jobs the best line was we used to think oceans could protect us but there are too many hemisworths and not enough sharks yeah oh man the barry reef i mean It's, you know, what's interesting is everyone tells me they're like,

oh, you know, what is it about Australians and acting? Yeah, what is it? Well, you know, one of the things is accents. Australians doing an American accent. I asked Chris Hamsworth about that. He said it's because we all watch the TV. That's exactly what it is. You watch American TV when you're a kid and it's just second.

Yeah. You don't even have to try that hard, right? There was this policy in Australia, which actually inadvertently helped all of us, which was there was no real. barrier for how much local content there needed to be. There was no mandate how much local content they had to be on TV. So I would wake up in the morning. Canada has that.

They do? Yes. France has it at the cinema. Definitely Canada. There used to be a great show, SCTV, Second City TV that was done in Canada. Martin Short was on it. A lot of great people were on it. Eugene Levy.

And they used to make. fun of they had, because there was the law was that the Canadian law was a certain amount of content has to be about Canada. Yeah. So they were spoofing that with the, they did these Canadian brothers with their A, you know, it was all, you know. We had like Skippy. Do you ever see Skippy the Bush Kangaroo?

No. What? Obviously, we were in undated with American TV, but you never really got much of Australian TV. Was that a cartooner or a while? No, it was about this kid and his dad and his dad. Flepper and... Oh, this is Flipper with a kangaroo. It's Fliper with the kangaroo.

Yeah, it's exactly that. Yeah, they probably saw Flipper. And Skippy, the bush kangaroo, was... Actually, also a bit like Lassie is in. And if any of the kids were in trouble in the bush, Skippy would come back and literally be like... And the guy would be like, what's that, Skip? And he'd be like, I mean, what, the kids are in trouble?

The guy could understand kangaroo. That's Lassie, you're right, yeah. But when I come home from school, I would sit there. in front of the TV and I would watch Happy Days. Yeah. Gilligan's Island. Oh yeah. Brady Bunch.

Oh. What else? Eight is enough. And then as I got a bit older, actually my first celebrity sighting was Kirk Cameron from Growing Paints. That's my boy Alan Thick. Alan Thick, the father. Yeah, Alan Thick, yeah.

He was a great, great friend of mine. Oh, really? One of the greatest guys. Well, I spotted Kirk Cameron at First Family vacation we went on with the year. He went nuts. Yes. Have you seen the bananas? But he's a super, super hardcore Christian.

Speaking of New Zealanders, have he seen his counterpart who does the, he explains, you know, creationism through the banana video. Have you seen that? No. Anyone watch the banana video. It's like, he explains why the banana was obviously created for the human hand and how it's perfect. encased and thing and then as he starts to eat it he doesn't realize how phallic the whole

thing is the banana was plainly created for girls to practice blow jobs on plainly that is how that is my interpretation of the bible and it's not any stupid than what anyone else would find in the bible so i'm just going to go with that but i think all of them for this you know my my niece is 10 and she can do a flawless American accent and her and like you listen to young Australian kids playing with each other and they sound like valley girls just naturally not even trying to do it no they're just like effortlessly fall into this sort of play accent that they do all from television yeah yeah well I mean again I could see how American actors could be pissed at this I mean when you go down the list of people who have just

I mean, even more than the British, really. I would say in this century, certainly, I mean, starting before that, but like, I don't want to like go down the list of names, I'll leave somebody out, but it is an extraordinary success rate. And, you know, I mean, you're obviously having a moment right now, which is great, because, you know, I've been watching you for years, always was a fan.

You know, big ones like Black Mass and the stranger and that, stranger and they say I have lots of shit and you're always in something you're always good but it is funny the way careers work because I just feel like you never know what's the thing that's kind of like oh you know just hit like on a certain different level yeah and for some reason you know train dreams that's that's the one you're I mean we're both up for an award you know we're both the gold and gloves think golden on the same category so we're going to have a civil conversation How do you feel, let me ask you, how do you feel going to me, to me, and maybe it's because I've always set my ceiling quite low in life. Like being nominated to me as a win.

Sweetheart, I've been nominated for 33 Emmys and they would never give it to me. That's not a gag number. It's a real number. Right. It's crazy. Right. For politically incorrect, for real time, for my stand-up specials, for producing, for writing, for performance. obviously it's something I said well it's it's everything I said well you said enough to get the

nomination but then there's something you've said because I speak freely and this woke town fucking hates that and that's okay I made my peace with that but so I know how this goes I'm this is not this is not something I would ever I have good standing yeah if I win this my son miracle to go what people always say I can't believe I'm shocked I really should be shocked Yeah, yeah. If I win this. You know, like from my, from my seat, the, the, the, the, the, the admiration I have for, for guys like you that actually get up and say what you feel. There are no other guys like me, Joel. No. There are no other guys like me. Yeah. But go ahead. You know, like, I'm a guy that, that gets, you know, gets a job, gets a script, goes to work. my success is based on other people's ideas

and hopefully along the way their wisdom to put me in something or not and hopefully the right things. Actually, one of the other things I have to say I really admire is your whole thing about the casting culture. Oh, you mean the quotas? No, the one, the actors appropriating. Oh, that too, yeah.

Who's appropriate for what? Well, again, the episode. center of woke stupid is this town. It really is. And things like that. I mean, like appropriation, we used to love that. You know, it was called culturally sharing. We thought it was a great idea when we, you know, now obviously if you steal something, I mean, you know, Elvis, did he steal from black culture? He sang the way he sang. He grew up in the South. I mean, the culture is mixed. You know, I don't, it's just pointless to hate him for it. Yeah. And, you know, America. was more racist, obviously by far at the time.

So it was like, oh, we got a white guy who sounds black. We like black music, but, ooh, we don't want to put that on the radio. It'll corrupt the kids, whatever they were thinking in the 1950s. I mean, this is the 1950s. But, you know, yes, to say that, you know, I mean, they were mad at, who did the movie about Leonard Bernstein with the Junos? They called it. Bradley Cooper.

Bradley Cooper, yes. I mean, Junos. Do they even know how stupid they sound? I mean, what could be? They actually used that word. They made up this horrible word. And then we're like, oh, but we're the good people. We're saying, whoa, no Junos.

You know, it's just so silly. They got mad at somebody for playing Castro, who wasn't Cuban. Sean Penn had the great line. He said, you know, at some point, they're only going to let Danish princes play Hamlet. Yeah. Well, this is what I was thinking about itself, your other problem about Australians coming to America. I started wondering if I would ever have gone to drama school now.

Because, you know, I went in there with this optimism, optimistic point of view that being an actor was, you know, I could try and be anything I wanted to be. Obviously, I would draw the line somewhere and more now than ever. But, like, am I going to be in a position where you won't have to bother with the Australians here because like we'll only get to play like mid-level intelligence Australian dudes. Right.

I mean that is where it was heading. But yeah. I think they put the brakes on it a little. I mean we have had a little bit of a oh come on. But I mean they do, I mean there's a no there is a quota system and I understand why they would have this. Everything that is unjust and certainly lots of stuff that went on with representation. of minorities was unjust in this town for the longest of times. Yeah.

I mean, there was a time when Oscar So White had meaning. Yeah, yeah. Not anymore. And they refused to give that up because they love being the people who are the social justice warriors. Okay. But, you know, I understand where this is coming from. But, you know, ultimately, you do not want to tell artists how to make art. This is what they did in the Soviet Union.

This is what they did in communism. countries. The last place you want people making a lot of rules about how you can make your art, who you can hire to do your art, that is not what art is about. And no artist, no matter how liberal is going to like that. Yeah. People want, or turs want to or tour. Yeah. I think, you know, there's certain examples of it where I totally get it. Like, you know, you see a movie called Koda. Cota was, I think it was going back two years. Troy

one best supporting actor. A film about a girl who's a coder who's essentially like a person of hearing who grows up in a family of hearing impaired people and the entire cast who are playing deaf characters

are played by people who really are, you know, hearing. And that to me was like yes, that's exactly the thing that should be done because like watching someone like me kind of go I'm going to pretend that I'm that. It makes sense for that.

And it's about the cutting off of opportunities for people who are deaf actors who are going, well where was my audition? Where was I even getting to get a look into that thing? The way the arts have progressed is that we have and I think for the better of enjoying movies just as a fan made movies more real,

I mean, if you look at movies from the 30s, 40s, 50s, I mean, there's Spencer Tracy playing a Mexican, you know? He's just, they just kind of dark in his face, and he talks like this, and it's like, that's just where there were. That's where everything was in movies. If I shot you, there was no gore. You just went down. Yeah.

You didn't see what we see. Okay, now we're at a realistic phase. If I was the director of this movie, as an artistic decision, I would cast the deaf people. Yeah. Because it's going to make the movie better. I'm working in real, yes, we're in the realistic age now. It's going to make the movie better.

Yeah. Yeah, so it's a case by case. Yes, the truth on screen is always better than anything you can make up. It's always much better. Yeah, I mean, people don't always like the truth, but yes, I think movies, when they're done well, movies that are about something that are substantive, you know, they get it at a truth. in a way that doesn't put people off. Yeah.

You know. Train Dreams was a good example for me of like, I guess as I get older, I'm like, all right, well, what's suitable for me to play? Not looking at it from the perspective of the conversation we just had, but, like, what do I connect with? You know, and the director of the film didn't realize I'd read the novella like five years earlier. Oh. I tried to get my hands on the rights to it. the rights to it. And of course, the film deals with one of the worst possible losses you could

have to go through loss of trees. Trees. Lots of trees. Yeah, yeah. Mostly trees, but then there's the thing with the wife and the kid. And I'd become a dad since the director reached out to me. And so even though I'm playing a logger, I'm like, you know, trudging around pretending I'm a tougher guy than I really am, On an emotional level, it's wrapped up in my greatest fear. And I was like, well, I realized how much as an actor,

I've always tried to hide behind funny walks and costumes, as in like really, really, like, not show any side of who I really am because I feel like that's a little bit dull and just, like, Black Mass is a good example. You know, playing a crazy, like, you know, FBI agent or, or playing Buchanan in Gatsby. They're not, they're like energetically, you know, like, because I love character actors. I've always loved character actors.

Train Drones was just a far more personal thing. Again, it's not my field. I love being entertained. And if it's entertaining, I don't care if it's from the method acting or, you know, I love Black Mass. You know, I love the character. Sure, I love the whole movie.

So I didn't really care. But then I like train dreams too. Yeah. You know, and that's obviously, I mean, you are obviously on a deeper emotional level because it's an emotional movie. It's a hard movie to, if somebody says, and whenever you're out to dinner with people, hey, you've seen any good movies, and if somebody says, yeah, I saw blah, blah, blah, and I go, oh, my first question is always, what's that about?

Just tell me what it's about. Yeah, the train pitch, kind of like the being on the bar. pitch quick pitch it's not an easy one it's not an easy not no no I mean what would you say like a guy hundred years ago yeah is it has a rough life yeah and you know he's born nothing special and dies nothing special in this world and in between I'm a studio exec writing the check right now in between he gets glimpses of happiness yeah which what which then disappear Yeah.

But, you know, the reason why it hits such a nerve, is that, and here's a deep question, like, it shows that there's a lot of grief, at least in America, and I'm sure in a lot of places in the world, I mean, that's what people connect to. It's like this, it's a movie about grief, and people are, you know, Why are so many people in this modern world hurting so bad that they relate to this guy who's got a really rough life from 100 years ago? Yeah. That's the question.

The question, well, the answer for me. A lot of sadness out there. Yeah. And, you know, here's the one thing that I think says train dreams apart is we go in the movies and we watch stories about extraordinary people, generals or, you know. Superheroes. And talking about Australian moves, interestingly, Now, someone pointed out Australian movies, which are quite small in their scope quite often,

unless you're talking about George Miller or Baz Luhrmann. You say American movies are about people who are going to save the world or save the universe. And Australian movies about the person who's going to save the local cricket club. And it's true. But you can root for them just the same. And it's a little bit more kind of a smaller bubble. Much more relatable. But Train Dreams puts at the center of the movie, 99,

1.9% of who the audience is, which is the ordinary human being. Boring nuts. He's not going to have a plaque, not going to have a monument built about them, and celebrates the majesty of that. Now what I have noticed too is that young people who haven't experienced, it's not about age. Young people can experience devastating loss. But generally the people who haven't experienced any of the real blows that knock you

to your knees in life. See the film is quite sad. people who have experienced lives or some kind of greed see the film is quite hopeful because what it does is also show you the power of rebirth and regrowth and is Clint the director Like a forest

Yeah exactly yeah and the analogy is very clear Well it's plain that that's what he was going for I think You know and and and the idea of just having to get up some days And put one foot in front of the other Because there is is an alternate, which is you tap out of life, or you just find a way to absorb yourself back into the world. And I believe that the world moves and turns and swallows events up, and each day makes it a little bit easier. This is a little bit grim, but there's something

beautiful about the resilience of human beings. Yeah, which we all need. You know, I mean, no one wins the game of life 11 to nothing. If you win it at all. Yeah. And there's so much suffering right now. And it's so relative. You know, I have days when I'm like, I'm going to crumble about this and that. And then the perspective of life, obviously, I think we all, I don't know about you,

but I often find at my own fault and sometimes my own savior compare myself to other people. I think it's a natural human thing. It's like, I'm okay because, you know, if you compare yourself to people below you in their suffering or whatever. In other words, you're saying to yourself, I really shouldn't, I don't deserve to feel bad. Because this guy has it worse than me. Why am I playing a violin for myself?

That's stupid. Yeah, exactly. Pain is pain. Yes, we could acknowledge rationally in our rational mind. There are, of course, people doing worse than you. And whoever that guy is, is somebody doing worse than them. Yeah. You know, there's a lot of shit out there.

And the cruelty of kind of having the shouting for is of like looking at people above you, like you want to dismantle on something because they're, for some reason, even though they're disconnected to you, they're the reason for your pain or your suffering. No, you shouldn't feel guilty about if you have legitimately something to feel bad about, and we all do in this game of life. There's also, I feel, among each succeeding generation, which actually has it, easier in most ways, there is a complete lack of perspective about what actually is hurting you and what is actually painful.

Yeah. I guess what I'm saying is these kids are such pussy. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. And yes, I know another website ad. Well, stay with me on this one. This one actually makes sense. Squarespace is the all-in-one platform for anyone. who has an idea, a side hustle, a passion project,

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tells the story inspired by a true legend, Anne Lee, founder of the radical religious movement, The Shakers, The Testament of Anne Lee. Exclusive Toronto Engagement January 16th in theaters everywhere January 23rd. But it's true. I mean, the things that they complain about and think are rough, you know,

as they're ordering from Grubhub every day and if you have their food brought to them and, you know, remember during COVID? Like, we're all in it together. No, we're not. Half the people are sitting home in their pajamas during this crisis and having other people bring them the food.

But they're just sitting home in their pajamas, day drinking and eating, take out food. Yeah. Other people, yes, are having it rough. Yeah. Like your character, not quite that much. And that's another thing they lack perspective in knowing is like the advances that we have made in the hundred years since, I mean, when is that, it's right before World War I

when the movie starts. Yeah, early 1900s. Yeah, early 1900s. Right. And we see it up until the space age, which is great. Yeah. Because you see the perspective of a character and life does get, it. It just does get easier.

I mean, 100 years ago, a hot shower was a rarity. Yeah. You know, you realize, too, we made the movie. You think it's kind of special. We had a special time doing it. It's not until you share it with an audience, start having conversation with people. You realize why it resonates, you know. There's stuff in the film that talks about how fast the world is moving and changing.

And, of course, we're talking about the 1900. So what's faster moving about the world? It's a man goes to the moon and there's telephones and there's different modes of transport. And antibiotics. Antibiotics. Antibiot. I remember toilets. Yeah.

And there's a thing about a guy. He drops dead. And the narrator in the film says that if he'd have experienced this sort of like, you know, five years or a decade later, they would have caught it because of medical advancement. You know, I at one point in the film, you know, I at one point in the film, you know, stare at a chainsaw and don't know how to start it. And it's like me staring at AI, wondering whether it's going to change my industry and how the fuck do I use it?

And I remember my grandmother when I first pointed a video camera at her, and she froze. And I realized she froze because she thought I was taking a still photo of her. Oh. And that was a baffling move of technology for her. And now look where we are. where we are. It's fucking crazy. My dog, I think, used to think it was a gun.

No, really. When I would try to take a picture, my first dog, Blackie, loved that dog. But he was definitely, and I think he probably, I mean, I got him as a rescue. He may have been in a house. He was going to shoot me at some point. Yeah, there may have been a gun that went off.

I mean, he was deathly scared of the... So you point a video camera and he tries to get out of the way? I mean, I only have one fleeting picture of him. It's just like him, like darting out of frame he just was very very scared of the camera but see now this I hope this is not inappropriate but I did really enjoy this movie but like from my perspective which I admit is not the normal never been married no kids never like kids okay so like who I really felt for was the trees

because I've always been environmentalist yeah I'm always been I'm a Pita board member for over 30 years. Animals, anything in nature. Yeah. So, like, I know people cry at this movie. Where I was, like, tearing up was the thing about, these trees are 500 years old and we're cutting them down. Yeah. And it does something, that speech that Macy has, you know, it does something to a man's soul. You think you're just logging.

That's a man's soul. Whether it locks it or not. Right. But you're cutting into this miracle of, nature. Matthew Arnold once said for people who don't say there are miracles, a tree is a miracle. We're just used to it. Yeah. I'm not saying I'm an atheist. I'm not saying who made the tree. I'm just saying it is a miracle of a sort and we are just used to it. Well the film has a sort of a spiritual kind of resonance with nature that's not religious. You know and there's The follow-up line of Bill Macy's after that thing about it hurts a man's soul is we are but children pulling bolts out of a ferris wheel, presuming ourselves to be gods.

That is an amazing line, yeah. Our relationship with our harvesting of nature. And I have this big thing about, you know, and I could talk about shipping as one of them. The Internet is one. Nuclear technology is another. AI. Now AI. All the electricity, that you. sucking up all the energy. Yeah, this brilliance of the human mind

or the finite minimal percentage of us that can create these incredible things. But what we don't know is what happens next. You know, and there's this beautiful naive character, a young logger in the film is talking about, yeah, and he's saying like there's so many trees here. We can cut down all of them. By the time we finish cutting them down,

the next one would have grown up as big as tall as the rest of them. Yeah, yeah. You're like, yeah, but. No, no, really. And I mean, if there are trees 500 years old, there are trees that were, I think, something like two or three thousand years old. Yeah. Something crazy like that, that they do exist.

And, you know, thank God, we do protect, I think, here in California some of that. I mean, those sequoias are ready. We've got to visit us a few of them, but they're in, like, really protected areas. Yes. But I do remember, like, before I saw Oppenheimer, learning when I was in school about the moment that op and up, you know, this obsession with getting a thing done, creating a thing, and then watching it take shape,

as in watching the thing explode, and then realizing what have I done? Something like the atom bomb. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, mankind, you know, is a destroyer. There's no two ways about it.

I'm not saying this with any political dimension. It's just a fact. Homo sapiens are serial killers. I mean, we are not the only human species. There were six or seven human species. Homo sapiens wiped them all out. Then they wiped out Australia. Great example.

When men... Landed serial killers. Reached Australia. Okay, they came out of Africa. They went to Northern Europe, mostly the Neanderthals and so forth. When they got to Australia, fossil record shows, there were lots of large species of animals. A thousand years later, there are none.

In a thousand years, they wiped out all the big game of Australia. That's who homo sapiens are. We're hungry. Yeah. We're hungry and we don't care. You know, one of the things I talk about with train drivers is I am constantly. reminded of how we forget that we are part of the planet, you know, because, you know, here we are wearing shoes and we have, you know, we create alcohol and technology and

everything in between, that we forget that we're also just one of the animals on the planet. Are we take and we take and we take whatever, for whatever reason? People say it's partly because we have opposable thumbs, but the koala has two opposable thumb, so why isn't the koala running the universe? I don't know. Brain. Yeah, the brain. Our ability to have language, all the reasons that make us able to communicate, share stories, continue a history, pass on knowledge, and create. You know why all that happened? Because we discovered fire. Once they had fire, they could cook the food. And once they cook the food, they killed off most of the bacteria and the parasites. So evolution-wise, we needed

a much smaller digestive system, and it went to the brain. We got a bigger brain. And we used it to fuck each other up. But that is, that is why. A bigger brain that actually, what, we use about five percent of it or whatever? Yeah. And that's still way, you know, maybe if we probably would be better if we used to larger percentage. We wreck everything. We wreck everything. For our own pleasure. We do great things too.

I mean, let's not pretend that we don't love our lives. And it's not just us, you know, oh, these rich Hollywood, you know, showbizzo type. No, I mean, yes, we are very privileged lives and we do something we love and we're so lucky about that. But there's millions and millions of people who are just really enjoying their life because they live in the 20, first century and they do have toilets and they do have antibiotics and they do have Starbucks or whatever. You know, it's just life is very convenient. Very easy. In a way it just never was before and very comfortable.

I mean, obviously, yes, there are people who are suffering and we should do everything we can to help them. But life in general, even in the last 25 years, we have lifted like an astounding percentage of people out of what they used to call extreme. poverty, which is, you know, living on a dollar a day. Literally defecating in the street. Used to be a thing, a billion people around the world did. And now it's just on my block, apparently. No, but like, you know, we do progress. But how do you, how do you, okay, here's the thing, is, you know, I could, I constantly

when I talk about things, try and remind myself to use first person, kind of go, rather and go, you know, we as people or we this, we that. It's like, for my perspective, I don't know how it happened and by various set of circumstances and my parents' influence and where I grew up and socioeconomic, blah, blah, blah, I landed in a position where I can, for a living, do something that I'm very passionate about, that I wake up most days if I'm going to set

and I'm like, I am actually not dragging me. myself to work with any kind of ambivalence or grumpy kind of attitude. You have one of the fun jobs. Yeah. That's one of the greatest things that we can be lucky to get in this life is a career instead of a job. I've had jobs. I know what a job is and I know what a career is. It's not like you don't work in your career. I work very hard, not here plainly. But like in my real job, I work. But it's still a career. And it's It's still fun. It's a fun thing that we do. We're fucking in show business.

We're lucky. There's people who work on an assembly line and they chop the heads off of chickens all day long. It's like the logging thing. I mean, there's some really soul-killing job. I don't know how people do that work at factory farms where they're just killing creatures all day long. It just has got to do something to you.

Yeah. I knew a kid who was one of my first. friends at school. He's sadly not with us anymore. And he wanted to be a vet. We want to be a veterinarian. And so he wanted to work with animals and he was looking for jobs that involved animals. He got this job in a lab and his job was to inject disease into rabbits. So it was like in order to get a fast track to the university degree he wanted. Yeah. Actually do the opposite of what he wanted to do. Yeah, that's the shit my great people at Peter. are always trying to get started.

Yeah, bucked up. What was the worst job you ever did before you started like clicking your heels and moving in the direction you wanted to? Do you ever have a shitty job? I was a guest star on Married with Children. No, I'm kidding. That is a complete joke.

I loved being a guest star and married with children. But did you ever have like a... Of course. What were that? Oh my God. Well, I mean, I was a complete joke. was always the kid who like had worked like after school like that like I realized looking back every kid needs an identity okay I'm I'm quite athletic but I didn't really I was too

short to play basketball yeah and I fucked up that audition when I was a freshman I could have if I worked at that I went out for track I was like oh this is boring just you had an aspirations to being athlete no it's just like you're looking for an identity in high school and I I still play basketball. I mean, I played on the baseball team for a while. There was just too much rules and too much after school. They made it like a living, like, you know, if you were on the team. It was just too much.

I couldn't, I wanted to, you know, I had to get home and do homework and shit. I was, so, and then, you know, could I be an actor? I was too shy for that. I knew I wanted to do a comedy. So, like, I kind of settled in on my identity being like the poor kid who works after school. So I always had mowing lawns, raking leaves, shoveling driveways, whatever the season was. I was doing something in the neighborhood to make money. And then I was the delivery boy for the liquor in the drugstore.

And, you know, I worked, I stocked the A&P. In college, I worked at Arthur Treacher's Fish and Chips, this gross, like it was a fast food place with fish triangles. Of God knows what kind of fish product was in that. around a triangle sometimes. Some of the shapes. And I had to throw them in this vat of grease, which splashed back up and burned your arms. Have you got any scars from the time?

I did. Yes, I think I do. I have still stories from... See, that's a good reminder. It is. I am so glad I had my difficult... From the time I left high school till the time I moved out of here,

10 years, I lived in slums everywhere. And it's so funny, when you're a white kid, middle class white kid from the suburbs, you just don't think of yourself as poor, or I didn't. And then I look back and I'm like, I was extremely poor. I was living in the shittiest places.

I had no money. You know, I was living on shitty food that I didn't want to eat. That was fast food. Like, of course I was poor. And it's good. Once you realize you would money like now, you've frugal, I got plenty of it.

I'm saying I like it. I like it better than having none. I mean, most people wouldn't even live in a house this big as your, like, what I call your playroom here. Yeah, my playroom. But I like, okay, so my dad was very, very, came from very work class back. My grandfather drove trains and he met his wife, my grandmother. She worked at the kiosk. Train dream.

That five kids in a three-bedroom house in Granville. And I think my whole family, I don't know how long it's going to take my kids. will probably inherit something different. But, you know, to see yourself as blue collar when you start out that way, but my dad became a lawyer, he was going to become a farmer. Wow. And he became a lawyer. And then by the time I finished high school, we went from being what I would consider,

like, on the just below the kind of middle, middle class line, to being upper middle class. Wow. From the age of zero to 18, that's the trajectory I had. but I had a job as a porter at a hotel, so I'm very generous with my tips at hotels because I'm like, you know. I love tipping big. I worked at a, like, my first job was wrapping Christmas gifts

at a, what do you call it, like a department store. That's gay. That is super gay. I'm not saying anything wrong with it, I'm just saying. And no audition process is in like, you can do that job. And it's like, the first job I had to do is wrap a lawnmower. I'm like, Where the fuck are you doing to me here?

Like, rap a lawnmower? Rap a lawnmower. She's like, I just wanted, I still want it to look like a lawnmower, but I still want it to look wrapped. I'm like, well, I could do that. Well, I can top that, Joel. When I got out of college, I wanted to move to New York to start my comedy career at the comedy clubs,

and I had no money. So there was this thing in the village voice, rent-free situations. Now, the first two interviews I went on on, I realized in my Nevité after about an hour that they were old queens, who were looking for a young boy to live. Okay, but I finally got one.

Yeah. I lived with, in the maids room, the ambassador to South Africa, or at the time delegate because they were thrown out of the UN. And I took, and I was the bodyguard for their three children. I took them to school. I picked them up. Did you have a curly ear thing? Did you be like, kids coming out?

I did not. This is 1979. Now, some people have said I was an au pair. I resent that deeply. I was not an au pair, but I kind of was, and I hate kids. So, like, I feel like, to answer your question, the worst job I ever had, it was certainly that. Taking those three brats to school every day, picking them up, making sure they were safe. They got right from the bus, you know, right to the door of the school.

And then, you know, and I understand why. He was a diplomat. And it was the upper east side of me. What if they were in trouble, what was going to happen? They weren't trouble. They were just... No, I mean, if someone tried to attack them... Oh, they were...

They would have been fucked. You would have been like, take it, take it, take it. So, like, I'm with Marsh Vega or whatever, that Israeli training system. I have no training. I was this kid right out of college. I don't know why they hired me at all. No question in the early state is like, do you like kids? No, I think I gave a great interview.

I did. Yeah, love kids. Love them. Yes, I definitely lied. So much. I told them I was married and that my girlfriend, I did have a girlfriend, but she was overseas. I said she was my wife. Because she at some point did come and visit, and we were in the maid's room.

It was like, it was about the size of this room that we're in from here to there. I mean, it was literally when the bed was in the wall, when it came out. You'd only had this much space to walk by. Isn't that background checks or anything like that? No, no. Just, exactly. It's like you seem like good guy. They just put their trust in this bearded college dude right out of, yeah, yeah.

I never thought of you're so right. Like no checks at all. No, now it's like full background checks. No skills. Everything. I've got four-year-old twins. Wow. And we had, like, by the way, like, you know, for years I never realized how much of a legend my mom was.

How the greatest job. The most dignified job in the world is a mom. Like a dedicated mom. True. And I treated her terribly, was so misbehaved. and my brother and I, a year and a half apart. I don't know how she did it all by herself. My dad was around, but he was working.

Well, you mean you were a troublemaker kid? No, it's just like, you know, we'll try, like any two boys, like fighting all the time, disobedient. And now I have two kids, and I have my mother-in-law live with us. Oh. And we have a nanny that helps us with the kids. So my wife and I both have, you know, very busy lives. and I mean like when you're suddenly going I'm going to hand my kids over to people like my mother-in-law I trust

like I know where to find her and she can't run that fast anymore right but like you know people you don't know and you're getting people who are care for your kids you're like you want to vet them but yeah I mean you do know they're people you must have just seemed like a nice guy I was like yeah is my kids oh unbelievable it's just so funny how people were just rougher and and more quaint back in the, I mean, you're so right. I mean, the crazy levels of what I call, not just I, many people call, safetyism. Yeah.

You know, the excessive, over excessive focus on everything. My car drives me fucking nuts. I mean, I'm pulling out to the end of the driveway. I'm looking at the road. If a car goes by before I pull up, Beepie! Yes, I see it. Stevie Wonder isn't driving this car. I'm driving this car.

It steers for you, too. Have you noticed that, like, if you drift it in the lane, it actually, like, starts steering for you? Well, I don't drift into the lane, Joel. I mean, that's, I mean, why are you... Why are you... Why are you drifting into the lane? This is, like, ever so slightly.

Ever so slightly. Oh, I see. If you just pass over... Yeah. What about Waymo's? I mean... Have you been in one? There's a great example of rationality brain versus emotional brain. Right.

Like, my rationality side is that the left side or the right side. One side of your brain, you know, is more than the right. And I'm glad I have that. And I'm glad I feel like I'm a balanced person because those two halves are, you know, equally strong. They're in communication with each other? They are. I've said this before. whenever an important decision to make, I think about it sober, then I think about it's stoned.

Yeah. Those are the two houses of Congress. And who is? If they agree, then I will pass it into legislation. Then you can send it to my desk and I will sign it. But they have to agree. And you're like, what is this piece of way? And they don't always.

And you know who's almost always right? It's stoner. It is. Yeah. I swear to God it is. Like, I'll be thinking of something and I'll get stoned and be like, oh, that is stupid. Why am I doing it that way? On game day, pain can hit hard and fast, like the headache you get when your favorite team and your fantasy team both lose.

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Drugs get a bad name only because of the people who do them who fuck up with them. And they give a bad name to people like me and many other people. who don't fuck up with them. And obviously people, some people, have much more of an addictive personality. Yeah. I don't. I'm lucky about that. You feel like you got a nice balance

in equilibrium of things? I've been smoking it for 50 years and I've never gotten addicted. Right. No. No, but I'm actually not. You just caught me at a low intelligence point. I was like, hmm.

Oh, that was a chunk. But it actually isn't because I know the difference I know the difference for an addiction because they smoked cigarettes for 20 years. Yeah, me too. An addiction and did coke for a couple. An addiction is, come on, didn't you have a coke period? No. Never?

No, something else, yeah. Something else. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's a big dark story. Oh, come on. What could it be, heroin? No. Yeah, it learned like something in that world.

Opium? Yeah. Opium? Yeah. Fuck, wow. Short period, but like, yeah. Where did you even get it? Where?

Yeah. I'll give you his number. I never, nobody ever. Deleted the number. Thanks, my old man. I'm not in the drug world anymore, but when I was, I don't remember anybody ever saying, hey, there's some opium going around. Would you like some?

I did it, and we did tried it in college when we did everything. I never got it. I'll tell you what I think it is, is too, as a kid, you go through all these phases. Well, again, I said, this before. I'll talk about me. I went through all these phases where I was a good kid, good kid, good kid, apart from the way I treated my mom. But like as in behaviorally, like it wasn't interested in alcohol or drugs. And then, you know, like try, you know, you go to college, you know, I got to try this drug and you go, that didn't stick to the wall, you know, and then

you try this. It's like, that didn't do anything for me. But like, you know, so you get in this pattern of going, just try stuff. And then every now and then I think with people, you know, they find a drug that goes, hello. Right, so true. We belong together. Yes, you're right. We belong together. Yeah, we belong together.

Yes. Yeah, and it's a different rhythm for different people, but it doesn't always suit. I have this theory, and for me it was really a really short burst of period, which, thankfully, in speaking, the love of my parents, my old man knows me too well, and he recognized it. And he was like, what are you doing? Wow. And I own a lot for that. And got you off? Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Like big time. Well, that's a much more serious drug. I mean, this, I was going to say, it's different than an addiction, because an addiction tells me when to do it. This has never said to me, do me now. I just do it situationally. Three, four days easily go by when there's no reason to smoke, and I never even think about it.

Right. So it's different. But it is, you know, kind of the love of my life. I mean, we love each other. Sometimes we forget each other's sentences. You know what I think, too, is I have this theory that, like, a lot of friends who have been through that situation where they hit rock bottom, you know, and I'm sure you know a ton of them too. I mean, you live in L.A. But, you know, where you really have to have your most despairing point, and then you, you know, you know,

realize that you have to turn around. But you're literally at the bottom. I always thought there's wisdom in how do you recognize the bottom is coming and turn around? And I think that a lot of people really have to like really hit the bottom hard, like really squish their base on it and for it to crack a few bones and a few vertebrae before they look up and go, right, I've got to change things. but how do you make that curve shorter and you see it coming? I think in we're talking about the psychological element,

in the physical element, there are designations, I think, four of them. I won't remember their names exactly, but in a hospital, if you're like serious, chronic. Oh, the pain? The pain? Well, not pain. This is like the level. No, the level of how serious your malady is, whatever it is.

This like chronic, serious, I forget the other designations, doctors, please help me out here. But, you know, like degenerative maybe. You know, and then, you know, Andy Dick. But I'm sure that there's that same thing with the psychological element. Like there is like depression. You know, that's a level. I mean, I've been depressed, but I wasn't depressed because I lack serotonin, I don't think. I was depressed because my life sucked.

Okay, that's one level. And, you know, then there's suicidal, you know, where, like, you get to that point. And, of course, you can do these also things with behavior. You know, like, are you a functioning alcoholic? There are. There are functioning drug addicts. Yeah. And then there, no, it has got you fired.

That's a level. Yeah. Okay, now you're on the street. That's another level. You know, they're just levels. And at where, at what point do you, arrest them and you know there are some points some people where that point is yes just lying on the gutter yeah but I'll tell you what my experience my my short

lived experience taught me a lot about empathy because I was a private school boy yeah as in like you know where I grew up ended up at a private school figured like my life was like fantastic that that anybody I saw on the street, for example, I saw them as like, especially if it came to drugs, it'll be like, oh, you made bad choice, you made poor choices. Never really considered it like a deeper combination of things. You know, willpower is obviously a big part of anyone's life in regards to so many things, but there's also like there's other shit going on.

So many factors. But to not judge people as a combination of just bad, choices, but to actually kind of have an open mind to go, you have a story I don't know, but I'm not going to judge you for it. Yes, I can't get into the head of someone who can't resist something because I can. You know, I mean, cigarettes was hard, but I did it. That was the hardest one. But like, I easily can, when dessert comes around at the restaurant, you know, like, you're sure you don't want a bite, not even one? Not really. I mean, do I know it?

Would it taste delicious? Yes. Do I care that much? Is it easy for me to say no? And for some people, it is not for food or for whatever their drug is. It's just not that easy. So I don't. So I don't judge.

And I think there's a dessert anonymous, is there. I think there actually is. There's actually, like, you know, not to downplay it, but, like, I know somebody who's in the, like, eating disorder issues. I had a dream one. I just remember I had a dream once. So Cape Blanchard I worked with on a play called Free Card, named Desire.

Legend. And we did BAM together. Another awesome actor from Australia who's taken our jobs, but she certainly deserves it. Getting on enough sharks. And I don't think she goes in the ocean. Not enough sharks, but even if they were. But I mean, and I give up to so many of them. They are so good.

I mean, you know, try to be better than Kate Blanchard's. But she's so good. And then while we're doing the play, she would also pull up after some evenings and give a speech. and she would have, like, give it an incredible speech about the environment. And we're like, you just did three hours on the stage playing Blanche. And then you make this speech. She was running the theater company. She just seemed like an unflappable, incredible human being

with just an aptitude, an ability to do so much. So she played Blanche to your Stanley Kowalski? Yeah. I would have liked to have seen that. Yeah. Where was that? At Bam, we did. We actually did the Brooklyn Academy of Music.

Oh. We did Sydney and then we did the Kennedy Center, which I don't know if we would do now. I don't know that we'd be doing that now. I think you mean the Trump Kennedy Center? The Trump Kennedy Center. Okay. Get it right?

We're going to reboot that one. One call to ICE. You're gone. You're gone. Two cast members may not be included. I forget what's his name back, who was here back in that 50s movie playing a Hispanic. So I had a dream one night about Kate. And don't worry, it's not a saucy drink.

I'm fascinated already. And it was that Kate was so perfect in my mind. And in my dream, I'm about to go to rehab. And I'm in this room and I'm feeling really shameful. And I'm fucking trying to pretend I'm not there because I think everybody's going to recognize me. And I look up and across the room I see Kate Blanchett. And we're all in a holding room to go to rehab. So I'm like, oh, fuck, Kate's going to rehab.

And I go over to Kate, and I'm like, Kate, why are you here? Because I think she's perfect. Why are you here? And she goes, food. And I'm like, fuck you. That's interesting that even in your dream, you're famous. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right?

Yeah, yeah. In your dream, you... I'm never know, famous. No, it's done now. In your dream, you're worried about getting recognized. Yeah, I'm worried about... You know, actually, that's something really interesting. But it is...

But you know what? I've had the same feeling in a dream. Because what is a dream? It's us processing our fears, right? Yeah. And what we're apprehensive about. And that is something we are apprehensive about. Yeah.

Don't get caught in public doing something weird, even though we're not doing anything weird. Yeah. I mean, speaking about this, like, this is alcohol for anyone who doesn't fucking get it. Yeah, all right, just taxi. That's, um, that's, um, the, uh, it's alcohol. The lab shed. Don't associate with us breaking the furniture. Just because we're telling you that we are drinking alcohol. But people who don't drink alcohol sometimes break the furniture.

The one thing about social. media that I love is that it puts the power in the hands of the average individual, the unseen individual, talking about the ordinary person. There's good and bad things about that. Yeah, I can tell what you feel.

The unseen person wasn't usually a fucking idiot. But, okay, I take it. Theoretically, you're right. But don't trip over on the sidewalk. Don't do something dumb. Don't be mean to people because they'll talk about it.

I mean. And it's like, you should hold those values true regardless of what outside judgment is, but it's a good reminder that, you know, we call it in Australia or any tall poppy syndrome, you can be cut down very easily in like X or Twitter or any of those social media platforms are there to remind you. You have to be, any time. Stay in your lane and be normal, like stay in the human lane. Anytime you or I or anyone in the public eye just leaves the house, just leaves the house. there is potential. Maybe it's a very small percentage of potential,

but as opposed to just being home, they could all come undone. Anything could happen. Many is the time, I've said to my, and I try to be aware, like, okay, you're stepping out of a limousine, don't show your vagina. I've said that to myself many times,

they caught me once or twice, and of course, TMZ runs that one over and over. Oh, and I've been. showing my cooch getting out of the car. But I'm not the only one who's had that happen where they show their cooch getting out of a car. And, you know, the really classy ones,

you know, smart ladies like Beyonce and Taylor Swift, you never see anything bad. No. Because they're smart, they're classy, they know that they're always trying to get you at something. Yeah. So they're just always on point. when they're out.

Do you believe that, I mean, the old days pre all this stuff, no one knew much about actors, musicians, Canadians. Like, they, you know. Of course, that's a fact. Yeah, and it was mysterious. Well, now it's the opposite, right? Okay, well, we have, I mean, we've passed the age of tabloids to obviously the age of not just TMZ. but self-promotion, which I happen to love and get my news from.

What, TMZ? I love TMZ. I love Harvey. I love the show. I gave a very boring interview to TMZ the other day, very sanitized. They won't run it. Well, when you're on TMZ, you want to be boring. You don't want to be the thing that's interesting.

Yes. You just want to be on there because you're Joel and your family. I saw it. You're signing autographs outside of Kimmel. Kimmel. Yeah. Yeah, very boring. Very pleasant.

Very polite. It was like, great. This is a way not to be. You're publicist is thrilled that it was not interesting. You don't need interesting. So I think right now when you're at this moment where you're probably going to, you're definitely going to get an Oscar nomination. You might win it.

You write at that age where they want to give it to the guy, you know, and it's the woke people will love it because it's about grief. I'm telling you, it's all lining up in your favor, Joel. I'm telling you, you put in the time, you put in all this good work. It's like time we give him his Oscar, you know. So don't fuck it up now. And we're not fucking it up here, by the way. Right.

We could. We could. So we're not. Because we're just real. Yeah. And we're not bad people. So as long as not bad people are being real, there actually is nothing to be afraid of. Yeah.

Honestly, there is, I mean, when I walk out of a limb, I'm not going to do something stupid. I guess I'm not stupid. No. And yet there's still that idea. And you've got a very nice looking vagina. Fairly. I'm not your team. We're even saying vagina.

We're completely politically correct here. Anyway, what's your next role? Let's pretend this is a real interview. My life is completely free for now. You know, I spend... Yeah. Well, that's going to change. I'm writing.

I write and I make stuff. My life has completely changed since I had two little people that you would hate. Two children. How old are they for? And I'm not, I'm not leaving them in your care. You say, therefore. Definitely not. Even though I have the credentials.

I'll give you a little like earpitch. I can have, I have references from South Africa. I'm telling you, I, hey, you know what? I didn't have any references. I didn't have any skills. You know what's me? I didn't fuck it up. No, exactly.

Those kids are fine. There were never, there was never any trouble. No. I, you know, I was always on time. I got them to their school. I got them back. I took them to their stupid activities. And, and I was supposed to teach them French

also that kind of fell by the wayside. No? Well, I kind of lied about that, too. Do you not French? Like, I would speak French to them, like they would learn French with their new bodyguard slash Opaire. Did you speak French? You know, bonjour.

I mean, well, I took French my whole time. They started us. Well, see. I can't. No. No. They started us in third grade, and I was still taking it my freshman year at Cornell, and I still couldn't get it.

There are some things you just can. can't do. And for me, learning a language, thinking in the other language, instead of always thinking in English, having to translate, you can't do it that way. Some people hear a foreign language and they pick it up. And I'm like, are you fucking kidding? The normal rate people speak, could I ever understand French? No. No. My kids speak Spanish, like fluent Spanish. And therefore, my mother-in-law is Philis-Cleaner Spanish. Because they're being raised by the nanny. Yeah, but my mother-in-law speaks to garlic and Spanish and English. Oh, I see.

She speaks only Spanish to them. Well, that's the time to get it in their head, because when they're kids, it's easy. And it's beautiful to hear them speak Spanish. So they're bilingual already. Yeah, and I feel ashamed that my promise to myself when they started was I'm going to stay up with them and I had jewelry. Have you ever done Juulingo? Please, don't be ashamed. Jewelingo.

No, but Juolingo has this sort of guilt aspect to it where. you do a course and like every day you do like a few lessons. Not guilt, Joel. Please. I'm riddled with guilt. I was a Catholic. What are you Jewish? Don't be. No, Catholic.

I was too. Yeah, Catholic's not a lot of people. I did my Holy Communion when I was 10. So did I. Seven when I did it. And I'm like... Ten? They raised the age? Well, I was around 10.

My parents were 34, 35 at the time that I did my communion and we had this long house. Speaking of which, like, you know, when you say, like, you thought you were a king as a kid, like, you were rich. And my brother and I went out recently to try and look at the house that we grew up in that was up for sale. And in my mind, it was a palace. It was fucking huge. Everybody showed me. And then we went there and it just felt tiny. Because you were two feet tall. Everyone says the same thing. And I was like, all right, well, we don't necessarily want to buy, but it was lovely to go there. But it was a reminder. me of all these things. There was a little church down the road we used to go and so did the

communion because of the insistence of my grandparents. My parents wanted to please them. My parents weren't really super religious. So it's like, why load me up with all this guilt? Anyway, I realized that every Sunday, my brother and I would run down, like, we were like Ned Flanders kids. Like, let's go to church. Let's go to church. And they were like, not today. Not today. And of course, church is on a Sunday, and what happens by the Saturday night is my parents would be out dragging us young kids along drunk. I'm 51. I've got two four-year-olds. I still take my kids out and do all that stuff.

But they were 35-year-old kids. I call them kids anyone younger than me as a kid. 35-year-old people with two young kids hung over on a Sunday going, I want to fucking go to church. And it raised my level of God. Oh, my God is going to fucking burn. Me too. He's going to punish me. And each week went by, I was like, I can't go now. Because when I go, the punishment's going to be worse. No, I mean, Catholic upbringing traumatized me. You know, we were talking before about getting

from train dreams about, like, how hard life is. Compared to a hundred years ago, my life has been a dream, and I was very fortunate. I had a very leave it to beaver upbringing. All right. Did that show? Were you Eddie Haskell? Ah, you know this show? Yeah. That played in Australia? Yeah. That was one of the ones.

Because that's really old. That's from the 50s, black and white. Yeah, I'm not kidding. Like, and Mr. Red? Mr. Red. The famous Mr. Red. I could sing all the jingles badly. The Talking Morris.

Green Anchors? Yeah, green anchors. What else? Let's hear it. You said you could sing all the jingle. But, oh. Green Ankers is the place to be. No, you don't remember that?

No, no. I got it. You've got me out of a live. No, no, that one. For me. But, you know, I mean, okay, so sorry, I interrupted you. Eddie, I called you Eddie Haskell, which is an insult. It's a funny insult.

Because he's the naughty neighbor, right? He's, yeah, he was the irascible neighbor. It's funny because. So that's suitable. Yes, he's, I mean, beaver is beaver. He's the, you know, the kid. He's the good freckle kid. Yes, he's the typical 50s kid.

I mean, this is the completely white world of the 50s. I mean, you could not find a person of color within 100 yards of this set. I mean, that's just where we were in the 50s. We don't think it's good, but like we, you know, I've been talking about your thing with guilt before. Yeah. There's too much guilt. There's no reason for you to feel I'm sure you're like a better parent to your kids. Yeah. Then like everybody was in my era, as far as like how much time you spend with them. I mean, my parents in that generation, they didn't feel any obligation. Yeah. It's like we brought you in a this world, you have a roof,

you have clothes, you have food, and you have your own life. And we were better. I had such a free range childhood. Yeah. I'm doing whatever the fuck I wanted. Just be home by six. I remember my minor is. My dad,

I think the story goes that he broke his arm, jumping over the fence, trying to get there on time for my brother's birth. And he said his job as a groom when you get married was just to show up. like no planning none of this like we christine and i got married at city hall we we just did like

the kids us we didn't want to like bother with all the stress of like you know napkins and who do we invite and all this year well then you got a really cool bride she's amazing my wife is incredible because not a lot of chicks go for that she is the best they're really punching above my weight a lot of women really think that the wedding day is the greatest day of the greatest day of the life and like that just has to happen perfectly. It should be for you. It should be. Yeah.

And maybe because she's in the world of, like she runs a magazine. She's the chief editor of Australian Vogue. Oh really? She deals with a lot of people. I deal with a lot of people where like, you know, there's a lot of people watching us. And maybe being in a wedding is nice just to be not watched and not about. Absolutely. My brother got married and I remember somebody like wrote to a wedding.

He's like, why aren't I on the invite list? It's like, fucking hell. Like, you're going to like give him grief about it. No, it's, yeah. But guilt is huge, dude, in my life. Like, every day I'm like, am I good parent, my not a good parent? I remember this. And my, you know, shout out to my parents who are just fucking divine.

But I remember I was with my mom and my dad. And my mom knows that I have these big chunks where I'm working. And these big chunks where I get to spend time. with my kids and my mom was like see you know said to my dad at one point see this is something you didn't get and I remember thinking that's not what he needs to hear because like he's very special to me and I kind of know more than ever now why there were certain times I didn't get to see him but so I think a lot about that when I'm the parent going you're like the logger guy kids don't understand money the

Lager guy. The logger guy. He goes away for a couple of months at a time. Yeah. Which is shit. Yeah. And acting isn't shit, but I'm sure you miss your family. Yeah, yeah. And then... Come back with a roll of cash. You come back with a roll of cash and you have like oodles of time at home, uh, uninterrupted, which most people in their nine to five kind of 50 weeks a year job don't have at all. And then the wife's like, so it's just... Aren't you going to log? Isn't there some logging to be done? Like, like, get a Right. But we, you know, like... So it's just different, you know, and I mean, I just see so many parents fucking up their lives and their kids' lives because they're too much in their kids' lives,

which fucks up their lives. Yeah. And they're really fucking it up on both ends. Kids don't need to be supervised to that degree, and it fucks up your life. You need to have a life, too. So if your life is, yeah, you're... I mean, I just watched Jay Kelm. Did you see that?

Yeah. You know, like so many movies I've seen, he feels very bad about his kids who don't like him because he wasn't there. You know what? Daddy was a movie star. I'm sorry he wasn't there all the time. You just, my father worked nights.

I never saw him during the week either. It didn't fuck me up. So what? You know what? I think it did do. You know, like, but also, like, you could, I mean, there were so many examples of people who have mistreated their children and they've gone on to like, you know, exactly.

And people who were the best parents in the world and the kids, you know, did awful things. Exactly. And, you know, life is this very complicated mixture of advantages and disadvantages. There's privilege and there's pretty privilege. And, you know, I can name a million privileges. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, you just either make the best of it or you don't. And as some wise person once said, if you're looking for an excuse, you'll find one.

And don't we all filter everything through our own ego? It's like everything that happens around us and near us and adjacent to us or whatever. We're like, it's got something to do with me when it really doesn't all the time. I mean, Joel, this is the wrong town to start throwing accusations about narcissism. And not to push it on Jake Kelly, which I did enjoy. Yeah. I enjoy George Clooney and anything. I enjoy Adam Sandler.

I work with George. But it is George Clooney. He directed me in Boys in the Boat. Oh, Boys in the Boat. Gorgeous George. Right. I always think of the Clitoris when I hear the name of that movie. But it is a good movie.

Okay, but like, and I enjoyed the movie, but like yet another, another movie about the business itself. Yeah. I mean, there's been a lot about, I mean, the navel gazing in this town is extraordinary. Yeah. Like, it wasn't a bad movie or uninteresting or unfeeling. I enjoyed it, you know. I mean, he plays basically himself, this movie star, so it's a smart idea for a movie. But, you know, I mean, I don't feel bad for the character.

I don't feel bad for his kids who, you know, Just, dad, you weren't there. Yes, because he was making a classic, you fucking brat. Yeah. That's what happened. And you having an argument around a really nice swimming pool. Exactly. But it's a great movie.

And then he came home and gave you a great life, which, you know, dad could have worked for the electric company, okay? Yeah. Get the fuck over yourself. Yeah. Your dad's a movie star. And, you know, okay. So, like, that's who he is. We can't change who we are.

Yeah. You know, there's just so much like a bit shaming. A lot of it, you know, people wonder why so many young men vote for Trump. Well, maybe because, you know, he's one guy who doesn't make you feel guilty just for being born with a dick. You know? It's true. It's a lot of his appeal. They make you feel, you know, a lot of, not me.

I'm old enough to remember when it was the reverse, so I get the backlash. It was like to be born without a dick. But if you're 20, that I don't remember. But if you're 20. 22 years old, if you're 22, you don't remember a time when it was the reverse. So you've only seen the backlash. You've only seen white men bad. Yeah. Well, you know, I remember when when he first got voted in and the realization of the, the sort of lack of awareness of the way dudes felt in the world. And I was like, you know, the whole seat at the table thing. And it's like

the presumption of position in the world and friends of mine in Australia talking about this whole whole thing about going, you know, like work hard for what you fucking get. Be good at what you do to prove that you deserve the seat at the table. But the anger of, you know, that sort of phase, I think we're talking about the same thing anyway. Yes, we are. But like, go, you know, I'm all for inclusivity. And then you speak to the same person, like a few months. later and like, I'm fucking terrified.

And it's like, why don't you just be fucking good at what you do? And if you're an artist, paint the right pictures, tell the right stories, make the best music, like do the best you can do and prove that the seat you were sitting on, you can still sit on. I mean, in this country, because we have such a horrible, sorry history, levels of reparation are, to my view, completely appropriate. Yeah. But at the end of the day, you also have to acknowledge things.

have changed enormously in this century and that ultimately merit you know is something that we're going to have to reinstate to where it formally was it's important and it kind of got bypassed and the people it's supposed to help by forgetting about it are often not helped Yes. You know. Well, the pendulum swings in certain ways, too. And I do believe that, you know, sometimes, like with the casting conversation, too, it's like, it's like, the pendulum swings so far.

You're like, now she'll be nervous about this. It's like, you know, the pendulum like shifts and changes. But in terms of merit, like, merit is just a thing. And it's like, I mean, I don't know how you solve that problem, especially two white dudes sitting on a lot of chair talking about it. Okay, but we're, Again, that's the guilt thing that I'm not going to buy into. Not.

Just because we're white dudes doesn't mean we can't have opinions. No. Or that we can't have just this discussion. I mean, apropos of that discussion about appropriation. I remember John Liguizama was sitting here. I love John. I think he's an enormous talent. But I did point out to him that he was very angry when James Franco was going to play Castro.

But he himself played characters. He played Luigi. He's not Italian. Yeah. He played, or Mario, whatever it was, he played like Toulouse LaTrec. Yeah. He's not French. Yes.

You know, like, it's a, that to me is very hypocritical and typical of the far left woke. Yeah. That they just, they don't see it when they, it's always okay when I'm making fun of it, but I can do it. Yeah. And like, don't be ridiculous because you yourself have played these parts that are not you. Yeah. And that's why we call it acting. Yeah.

It's acting. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I was the Pharaoh of Egypt. Yeah. In what? In Ridley Scots, Exodus. I mean, you know, like... And it's a really interesting, you know, I mean...

Ridley Scott's Exodus. I'm out of bucket. You want more? No, no, no, I'm good. Okay. That's what they all say. But, you know, like, it is an interesting conversation because I wouldn't take the experience way in the world,

partly because of what it taught me, love Ridley, like, fucking want to be. of my favorite people in the world. What a filmmaker. Yeah. And like, you know, to speak to him on the phone and kind of, you know, he's like, come, you know, anyway, I did the movie. But at the same time, I'm like, all right, well, you know, what is doing that movie take

away from someone else? And like, I wasn't even that famous a dude. It's not like, you know, I, the short version of that is when we talked about it earlier is just really about like on one hand it's like what suits you as a character is one thing what you are taking away from somebody else is another thing and it's like there's a financial aspect that everyone can lean on and say um you know the movie will only get made if it's just but as code approved like the success of that movie was the authenticity of the movie you know we are pretty much past the age when it's about who's in the movie yeah it's mostly about the movie

who are movie stars anymore right that's what i'm saying yeah it's tom cruise okay yeah but even tom cruise if the movie was shit i don't think it would do well yeah i don't think people are going to come out to see a 65 year old scientologist in a shitty movie they they will come out to see that in maverick which was entertaining yeah in a popcorn way and you know i i love i'm a huge fan of tom cruz me too you know he's obviously got a little wire loose there in the head that's fine but like what a movie star what a filmmaker beautiful legend and and entertained me a million times which i'm always grateful for yeah you know um i just want to be entertained i am now i want to be entertained also think that there are

countless examples of movies that have movie stars front and center that if the story isn't good of course that don't make money and then countless examples of movies of star people that aren't that famous that if they're really good i mean honestly they could have done train dreams with leonardo decaprio they did he was terrible they had to reshoot it with me they tried it with timmy terrible they reached out with me he's too young for it But you're the same age as United Dakota. Yeah, and we're very good friends. We did Gatsby together.

We're very good friends. And I'm so happy for him constantly. It wouldn't have worked the same way. He's just too pretty. What are he saying about me? Well, you're fine. You're a nice-looking guy. I'm down the middle.

But we can believe you living in the cab. This is something, though. I do think that at some point... And Revenant was one of the... my favorite movies of all of time, where he does play a guy from a million years ago, but it's different. He's eating a fish roar right out of the river. You know, it's just, it's just not the, it's just not the person we can relate to. Yeah. Who could bite into a fish right out of the river? I mean, I could. They're just too slippery, you know?

Couldn't get a hole, couldn't get a perj or someone. But it's, it's a good question is like, at some point. And he's two movie story. Well, he's already a movie. We just, see him as a movie star. Imagine you went to Sundance and saw like a, you know, like a $3 million movie starring Tom Cruise. It just somehow

the metrics don't compute. It doesn't. But mind you, that would maybe be one of the most radical movies you could pull. But there are certain things. I mean, back in the day, I think the studios told you who the movie stars were. Right. Pre-social media,

they're definitely the news outlets and there was like, all right, these are your movie stars. Now it's in the hands of everyone on, you know, social media. I mean, you're... I mean, train dreams got crazy numbers on Rotten Tomatoes. Yeah. Like, and Rotten Tomatoes is the popular. 95%...

Vox populace. I think if my mom knew how to write a review on there, 96%. My, I actually... I mean, that's a crazy number. for anything, but especially when it comes from the viewers. Yeah. It's a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful film.

You know, it's very un-Australian to cycle back to almost the very beginning of our conversation. One thing is Australians are, that is we like to be complimented by other people. We're not good at complimenting ourselves. And when people compliment us, we often stare at our shoes, which are generally flip-blocks. So you see yourself as modest? I do. I do. I actually, but at the same time, I do.

How are you eccentric of you? Huh? How we go? Yeah. Yeah. But like it is comfortable for me to say that I love this movie. I'm so glad that I'm in it. And I know, and I've seen numerous people that I look back on my life whenever it's getting

close to its end. which is kind of suitable for the film itself and go, it's one of my favorite experiences ever. It's not just a terrific movie and has touched so many people in a way very few movies do, but it is a defining like watershed in your career. Like, I would guess, I've been a reserver

of show business for a long time. You can just see, like Matthew McConae, for example, where we was the AIDS, dude. Yeah, yeah. Okay, AIDS, automatic Oscar. The McConnoissance. Not that he wasn't great. The McConaissance.

But they also vote on, they just, it's not quite an exact science. Yeah. Giving out awards, let's put it that way. So it has to be sort of the right thing, the voters thing makes them feel like the good people. Yeah. And this one like hit, it just, it just walks that line perfectly. It is actually a good movie. it also is going to like attract those people

who want to vote for it, the right movie. Yeah, yeah. I mean, after 12 years a slave won, which I'm sure is a great movie. But some of the people who have voted for it on the panel admitted, we didn't see it. We just voted for it. We knew it was the right thing to do.

So like, but like this all aligns up because you deserve an Oscar. And after that, even if you don't get the Oscar, even if you get just nomination, which you definitely will, then your career, you know, like for whatever reason, look, I'm the last guy to think that awards should mean anything because it's really just an opinion, and it bugs me that people talk about it, as if they, you know, like I always say, when the Eagles won the Super Bowl,

they won it. If you win an Oscar, it's just someone's opinion. Yes. You didn't actually win anything. It's someone's opinion. Yeah. We'll challenge your opinion, if you. We went at the Golden Gloves, by the way,

right. By when, I have a whole different take on it. But I do think you're in this other level. And it's a perfect time because I always think that actors over 50 are just working on a different level. It's just one of those 10,000 hours thing. It's the rings of the tree. It really is. They're just on a level of like, you know,

that famous story when Jack Lemon said to the director, what do you want me to do, not act? Exactly. Yeah. You know, we don't see the acting at all. And, you know, you see it in younger people. And it doesn't mean they're not good. Yeah.

But you just see this different level. So I just imagine for the next decade you're going to get some amazing scripts. Oh, thank you, man. Yeah. I feel that way with, you know, I used to, when I went to drama school and I was a very sanitized young man. And everyone was like, oh, you know, like to be a great actor, you have to be through some kind of stuff. And I'm like, I had a pretty cruisy upbringing. Like, it's going to make me a shit actor.

And then, you know, as I get older, I realize it's not about suffering and trauma and all that stuff. It's just the experience of life can give you the understanding of some things, the empathy towards other things, the appreciation of life, the patience to observe and look into things. without being too self-obsessed, that you can be open to slip into the skin of other people if that's what your job is. And so it's not really about, like,

I need to have been through hell and locked in a basement and beaten by my parents to become a good actor. I also think people should know, and I can say this from experience, because in the 80s, when I was first out here, I made my living doing silly movies and TV shows. And to spend all day in makeup, up, like mostly just wasting time in your trailer, just sitting around.

And then there's a lot of stress on a movie set. It's not like, and you're away from home, and very, very often you're doing things you don't want to do. I remember, like, getting very sick once because I had to, we were shooting in the Bronson caves. Do you ever shoot there? They used it for every cave ever seen in a movie. And I'm lying on the ground after this supposed explosion in the movie. and all this smoke that I was breathing in for two days. There's a lot of shit.

I mean, it's great to be a movie star. It also is, I mean, it's not like there's no work involved. No. Or nothing that like every day is just tits and champagne. No. It is not. Anyway. It's like, you know, I feel like being an actor's like five minutes of a day.

Right. Good and bad will remind me why it's excellent to be an actor. say good and bad. It's like, a good thing is like, yes, I'm doing the right thing. Sometimes you're working only five minutes of the day. Yeah, and if you didn't, if you didn't give me that five minutes that reminded me, I'd probably go, I'm finally going to go do something else. Yeah, John Cleese once said, making a movie is like spending eight weeks waiting in an airport. Anyway, I can't thank you enough for doing my little ridiculous show. I can't believe I'm even here. It's such a pleasure to meet you. You too.

This was so much fun. Yeah. And I wish you luck on Sunday. Thank you. You too. Because your interests don't conflict with mine. Good luck with your business. I'm going to pat a cat in that.

Thank you, man. Have you ever, you've been at the Golden Gloves 100 times? No, never. They never even had my category before.