Club Random with Bill Maher - Jordan Peterson | Club Random with Bill Maher

Episode Date: July 23, 2023

Go deep and wide with Bill and Dr. Jordan Peterson on: Jordan almost dying, how the Canadian government froze the assets of protesters, Bill’s take on when the Left goes too far, the fascinating checklist for psychopathic behavior, the true danger of virtualized communication, the five categories of males attractive to women, why today’s children are hyper-valued, how Jordan knows 200 people who have been cancelled, and SO much more, watch to the end!!  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Club Renewal. That is a nice looking suit. Thank you, sir. Wow. Were you somebody's before this? Well, I like to think so. No, I mean like some place for work. No, this all for you. Really? Thank you. I feel even better.

Mm-hmm. You know, three-piece suits in LA, you know, they go together like this. Well, I just got to tell you, you look amazing. Well, thanks, sir. Because I know you're at Death's Door. There are, yeah, for a long time. I've said this before. I said it to Matthew Perry because he was at Death's Door

when he was on my show. The other one, I said, you know, it's amazing that life, it's so fragile, it's so easy to die. It's also kind of hard. This is true. It's also kind of hard to get you. And you are close, right? Oh, yeah.

So why? What was, I forgot what it was. I don't know, really. You don't know? Not really. It was a bunch of things, I think, all at the same time. I don't really know. But what was the symptoms?

I have a bunch of things I think all at the same time. I don't really know. But what was the symptoms? I was in worse pain every moment during the morning and afternoons for two and a half years than I'd ever been for any moment in my whole life. What kind of pain? Oh, how would I describe it? Like all over?

Yeah. Well, it was also like cattle prod pain. So I couldn't sit down like for the months where I was walking nine to 12 miles a day. And what is the provenance of this pain? We don't know. Well, some of it had to do with, some of it had to do with benzodiazepine with draw, valium, essentially. Oh, you were taking valium? Yeah, although not very much. Some of it had to do with benzodiazepine withdrawal,

valium, essentially, valium. Oh, you would take valium? Yeah, they're not very much. Oh, no. Well, I got really sick. I got really sick in 2017, in 2016. And I couldn't sleep at all. People partied on that shit.

I know. In this town. Yeah, well, you know, if you do it now and then, it's not so bad, but. No, I always had a low keel. So like any downer I know. In this town. Yeah, well, you know, if you do it, if you do it now and then it's not so bad, but no. I know I always had a low keel, so like any downer I took. Just pass out. I literally pet, listen to this, when I was living in New York when I was a young comic, we took a quailude, quailudes, member quailudes. Yeah. And I passed that, we got about two blocks from my apartment. I passed out, I remember it being over the hood of a camp.

Party. And they just dragged me, my friend dragged me right back to the apartment and threw me on the bed. And I woke up 14 hours later with the door open. That's how bad my apartment was. The door was open to 14 hours and no one wanted to rob it. That's sad, that's sad, you know. That's embarrassing in New York.

So you were on, okay. But then, okay, but, and, I mean, you just look great. Thank you, sir. You look better than ever. Yeah, probably. You look like the fucking Marble Man. I mean, you're like, 10, rested and ready. Ready to go, man.

Yeah, maybe, but that's suit. I mean, Jesus Christ, you must feel like a million bucks to come back from that. I'm pretty an idiot. I'm just an idiot. I'm just an idiot. I'm just an idiot. I'm just an idiot. I'm just an idiot. I'm just an idiot. I'm just an idiot. I'm just an idiot. I'm just an idiot.

I'm just an idiot. I'm just an idiot. I'm just an idiot. I'm just an idiot. I'm just an idiot. I'm just an idiot. I'm just an idiot. I'm just an idiot.

I'm just an idiot. I'm just an idiot. I'm just an idiot. I'm just an idiot. I'm just an idiot. I'm just an idiot. I'm just an idiot. I'm just an idiot. I'm just an idiot. I'm just an idiot. I believe rather deeply in the mind-body connection, I believe that among the parts of Western medicine that annoy me and that I believe in the future will look stupid is not counting and not taking into account, rather, that element, like if they can't read it on a blood

sheet, you know, your blood panel, and quantify it with a number. It doesn't really exist in Western medicine, and I don't think that's how we are. You would agree with that? Well, there's a lot more to health than what can be reduced to, let's say, the merely physical. I mean, it's complicated.

I have a very stringent diet. That seems to help me a lot. And it helps me on the psychological front. So, you know, unfortunately, soul and body seem to be tied quite tightly together. There. Well, soul, I'm at the soul. I don't even know what the soul is. But the body and the mind.

That's what's born in the wrong body, Bill. Everyone knows that. But when your Canadian accent comes through, it makes it a little funnier. Like I'm watching, you know, Mackenzie, remember the... Bob and Doug? Bob. Oh yeah, we were pretty fond of them. Those two people, they drove my home down.

Wasn't that a great, wasn't SCTV that bad? It was quite something, yes. Do you ever watch the Trader Park Boys? The what? The Trader Park Boys? No, what's that? Oh, it's like SCTV on steroids. Really? Yeah, it's like what's it on? Who did it now? Showcase did it for a while, but he's a don that it's subsidizing, which is like the funniest thing in the world. It's both these like three reprehensible low-time low-key crooks who live in the trailer park in Garland, Nova Scotia.

Oh. Yeah, they're ridiculously funny. Well, that was the funny part about the Bob and Doggers that it was mandated by the Canadian government. Yeah, we like to subsidize everything. A certain percentage of the programming had to have Canadian content. Yeah, yeah. So they were really sending that up.

They certainly were. Well, it was it was have Canadian content. So they were really sending that up. They certainly were. Well, it was it was prime Canadian content. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's awesome that the person that you are, I mean, aside from who you actually are, but a Canadian professor became this great gadfly of the left of what I would call the stupid left, not the real left,

which I hope there's some left, or rather remaining. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But of all the people, Canadian, you know, and I always think of Canadians as people who, they're so good at, they're part of America, but they're also not. You know, they can be it, but also look, I feel like they look at us from a distance

and that's why their satire is so great. Yeah. And they're... Well, there's plenty to make fun about Canada too, so, you know, we like to do that. But it is, it's a terrible thing when Canada's become politically interesting. You know, the world is close to ending when that's the case.

Well, and sometimes politically stupid. Well, yeah, often. I mean, I read a quote from Justin Trudeau, which was so dumb. And I just... Which one? What is he always dumb? I... He always lies.

As far as I can tell, all the time. Right. I don't think I've ever heard him say a word that I thought was true. Really? Okay, I see, we don't really follow it that. And I mean, I just thought, oh, here's this, you know, great looking guy of Monka

seems to want to fuck him. And, you know, Canada, I mean, how, how, it's hard to fuck up Canada. But yeah, the quote I read was, they asked me something about the protests because you had a big controversy about protests, right, with the truckers. Truckers, yeah. Right. And I think it was where he was referring to them, but the quote was about protests in general.

It was something like, we have a vibrant democracy here in Canada and we value protests. But it was something like, but when you use protests to protest or to object to the policies of the government, I think you're going too far. Well, the fucking protest for, except to object to the policies of the government. But I still think- It was quite shocking, everything that happened in that protest because they seized the bank accounts of 200 Canadians and It was quite shocking. Everything that happened in that protest because they

seized the bank accounts of 200 Canadians. And that was not amusing. And Trudeau has no idea what that did to Canada's international reputation. That was not a precedent. Okay, wait, go back. They seized the bank accounts of what people who were in the protest. He seized some bank accounts of some people who only sent money to the protest, like seized some bank accounts of some people who only sent money to the protest like through give, give, send, go and go fund me and so forth. So.

Oh, I see. Yeah, yeah. So you didn't even have to be at the protest. When you say seized, they didn't, they froze it. They didn't take, they didn't take their money. They just froze it. So they didn't. They froze their credit cards.

They froze their mortgage payments. They locked them out. So they locked them out of the financial system. That is creepy. It's really bad. In fact, one of the banks actually apologized. There's five big banks in Canada. And one of them actually apologized for doing it eventually.

They all should have apologized. But one did. Yeah, it was really bad. It was shocking. I don't, Canadians aren't sufficiently shocked about it partly because they don't really understand what that did to Canada's international reputation. But it was absolutely, absolutely, I can't imagine a politician doing anything more inappropriate than that, right? No trial, no real investigation. Plus Trudeau claimed that the trucker corn void was financed by MAGA, you know, Republican

Americans, which is completely preposterous because, first of all, why would MAGA, Republican Americans, for FOMENT dissent in Ottawa, like, even if they knew where it was, which they don't, and they don't care, and why would they? And so, first of all, it was the Russian, you know, it's like, oh, yes, that's the Russian's primary concern. And then it was like literally mega-republic in Americans funding the trucker protests in Ottawa. You know, it was so, it was so- And they were protesting Mac of vaccine mandate?

Yeah, essentially, but they were protesting the lockdowns more broadly, you can say. Right. Yeah. And because it was really hard on them, it was hard well. Obviously, you were locked down, you know, yeah. And because it was really hard on them, it was hard. Well, obviously, you were locked down, you know how fun that was. We did real time right from this room for about six months. I did the monologue standing over there. And I mean, I did the editorials on the law. And I mean, it was so silly. I still think it's silly. We, I look back and I think it's even more ridiculous as I learn that so many of the things that I was saying

that people were kind of like scoffing at, well, now I read a report like, yes, using hand sanitizer all the time on your hand is very bad for you because you're bathing yourself in antibiotics, which does seep into your skin. You wouldn't live, you wouldn't want, you would never choose to live on antibiotics, right? Things like that, keeping children mask. That was really bad. I mean, what it's done to, both mentally and physically. Yes, and that sort of thing always hurts the poor kids' worst, right? Because anytime you intervene in the manner that's going to interfere with educational attainment, it's the people who are barely skated by to begin with, who are going to get walked from it. And that's certainly the data certainly revealed that that's been the case.

So I remember being in Chicago, I believe it was during the maybe was 21. Yeah, we weren't working at all in 20. Okay. So, and I remember the, I was talking to the driver taking me in from the airport and he was he had a mask on and my friend who travels with me and we always would tell drivers everywhere or anybody. You don't have to have them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, if you want to break in the day where you don't have to be breathing your own stale shitty air for no reason, well, open the windows to the car, whatever.

And this guy said, he said, I know I'd like to, he said, but my four-year-old daughter, I came in last night and I never the mask on and she freaked out. So they hit, I just, they're always stuck with me. They'd gotten a four year old to be panicked when she saw her father without a mask.

Yeah, right. I mean, what is that? Where does that fill in, fall in your psychology professor world? I mean, what does that do to a person? What's that person you'd be like when they're 20? Well, I think it was also, it was also what it did to everyone and what it revealed about everyone. Like, my sense in Canada, Toronto was locked down very badly

and people were pretty much on board with it. And my sense in Toronto was that 70% of Torontonians would have worn a mask for the rest of their life without making a peep about it. And 30% of them would have been happy about it because it gave them an opportunity to inform on their neighbors. And that wasn't cute. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, well, in East Germany, you're like one-third of people were government informers and you say, well, that couldn't happen here. It's like, yeah, it's about 15 minutes. Yes, the Stasi payroll, the Djevici movie, the Lives of Others, the German.

And one the best Oscar for Best Foreign Language. Yeah. There's a fun society to live in. One of the best movies. I mean, if you're looking for something with subtitles, I would recommend that one highly people, the Lives of Others. And it was about, yes, what went on in under communist East Germany. And somebody he was, he was a playwright and he was playing ball with the regime

He was kind of on the you know a line. He was able to be an artist, but obviously he wasn't and What they did with the bugging and the oh my god, it was How how humans can get themselves into those kind of societies. And I suppose we could. You do it by lying. You know, I mean, people think that tyranny is a top down, is the top downing, top downing position of force on people who would otherwise want to be free. And that's just not true. That isn't how it works at all. A totalitarian state occurs when everyone lies about absolutely everything all the time. And the totalitarian state occurs when everyone lies about absolutely everything all the time. And the totalitarian state is the grip of the lie.

Now the politicians and the people who have power in those situations, they lie too, but so does everyone else. Now, there's a story, it's interesting, I've been writing a new book, it's coming out in February, it's called We Who Ressel with God. And I've been writing about Sodom and Gomorrah and the threat of the destruction of the city. And so the idea is that if a city deviates from the appropriate moral path to blatantly,

then all hell will break loose. Of course, that begs the question of what constitutes the appropriate moral pathway. But Abraham intercedes with God on behalf of Sodom and Gomorrah. And he says, first of all, that if there are 40 people, he says, well, you can't destroy the city when he's talking to God. You can't destroy the city.

There's some good people there. And God says, yeah, well, I don't think there's very many. And Abraham says, well, what if there's 40? And God says, well, if you can find 40 decent people, then we'll leave the city alone. And Abraham bargains in bargains. And And Abraham, bargains, and bargains. And I think he bargains them down to 10. And which is quite good, you know, because God's willing to give in.

But it means something very specific as far as I'm concerned. It means something like, if in a political unit, there's still 10 people who are willing to tell the truth, then all hell will not break loose. That's enough, 10 people who actually tell the truth is enough to stave off the descent into totalitarian chaos. That's why comedians are so bloody important, right? Because they can, they do say what's true.

And you can tell it's true and you can tell that people believe it's true because people laugh and you can't really fake that. It's genuine. Well, then you are an honorary comedian because you do it. Yeah, but people laugh at me with me. No, no, no. Well, yes, you're not a comedian, but you are a Canadian, so you're halfway there. Well, right. Yes, yes. But you are, no, you don't, you do not give. And, and it's, and again, this is what I was trying to say before about you being a Canadian professor. It's like so delicious that you're the thumb in their eye because it's so much harder to argue with somebody like that because it's

this person that they think, that should be on our side. Canadian academic. I know how much more milk toast can you possibly get at Canadian professor. I'm at Canadian professor. At an Indian professor. But liberal and air you died and sophisticated and all the things we want to think we are. And yet he's not getting on the crazy train with this. And come on, the crazy train is leaving the station. Hey, so I could ask you a question that I've asked like 40 Democrat senators and congressmen and Robert F. Kennedy, by the way, recently, this question.

It's a very hard question, and I don't ask it just, you know, to cause trouble. I'm actually curious. I am ready. When do you think the left goes too far? May I use my lifeline? Absolutely. Absolutely. Call the people who know.

Okay. I mean, I mean, they haven't already. Well, but how do you know? Like what's a martyr for you? One Trump gets re-elected. That's when you know. What would you regard as behavior on the left that's unacceptable from the perspective of someone who's essentially liberal?

How long have you got? I mean, the theme I've been trying to promulgate as much as I can the last five years, partly just in self-defense of people who say, I've changed, I have not, is that wokeness is not something that expands on liberalism. It's something that undoes it, and I think you are on the same page generally. I mean, to give a few examples, color blindness, wanting to have a color blind society where we don't see race was classic liberalism. Certainly, what Obama was going for.

That's not a wokeism. Mokism is race's front and center to everything. Yeah, so that's part of that. So that, to me, that's an extension of the insistence that someone's primary identity is, is, is, is signified by their group, right? Which again, which is exactly what old school liberals were fighting against. Don't characterize somebody by that. Okay.

So they completely inverted and then they get mad at us for somehow work conservatives now. No, no, we're not conservatives. You're just not what liberals are. You're doing a different thing, which is fine. We're all allowed to do our thing, but you can't do this whole different thing and then take the term that you used to apply, but doesn't apply anymore. I mean, there's many colleges that have segregated dorms. Okay. Again, you do graduation service. Yes, you do you, but this is not liberalism. Okay. And certainly in the realm of gender, I mean, that's, I mean, liberalism was always about

tolerance for let's celebrate and allow everyone to be protected and respected for who they are. That includes homosexuality, that includes trans, which of course is a real thing that happens. That's different than rewriting the anatomy book from page one, so that every kid who comes out, it's a jump ball, and this no such thing as sex, it's only gender. And again, this is something different, it's not liberalism. So you can't say, oh, you don't believe in that. You're not a liberal. Freedom of speech used to be a whole liberal thing.

We used to own the First Amendment like the Conservatives owned the Second. That's reversed. I mean, something like the homeless. It was liberals who I used to do the show on HBO, Comic Relief. We're going to help get the homeless off the street. Now it's how dare you ask them to get off the street. So you can keep the homeless on the street and you can have segregated dorms and all that,

but that's liberalism. It's not. It's something different. So. So there's a line of research that's been developing, I guess over the last six or seven years that I think is very relevant to this. Because I've been thinking more and more thoroughly that the culture was actually not a political

battle at all, that the political battle is a façade for the actual battle. So... What you? Well, there's a group of researchers, most of them centered originally at the University of British Columbia, who started studying the subclinical manifestations of psychopathy. So, there's a guy there named Robert Hare. And Robert Hare was the first psychologist who really studied psychopaths. And he developed a checklist for psychopathic behavior and the diagnostic criteria.

It never became a formal diagnostic criteria, but criminologists have used it a lot. And if you're psychopathic, you're much more likely, for example, to be a repeed offender. And so he delineated the core psychopathic traits, and there's two sets of core psychopathic traits. So the first core dimension is something like predation. It's like, if I'm a psychopath, whatever's yours is rightfully mine.

And if you can't defend yourself against me taking it, that's just an indication of the kind of weakness that makes you a viable moral target, right? You're too weak to resist, you're too, what would you call it? You're too contemptible to even bother with. So not only can I take your stuff, but morally, I'm obligated. You say this very convincingly.

I know you're adopting the voice of them, but I'm just saying it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You could play this part beautifully. Yeah, well, yeah, well, I've watched people like that a fair bit. And the second dimension is parasitism. And so that's a more subtle form of predation. And someone with a parasitical lifestyle will adjust their attitude. And so that's a more subtle form of predation and someone with a parasitical lifestyle will adjust their attitude towards you so that they can so that you'll do the work and support them

and they'll do that however they can get you to do it. They'll use the sense of like the proclamation of victimization for example is one of the strategies that the parasitical psychopaths use. Like the stripper's boyfriend who doesn't have a job. Yeah, right, right, right, right, right, right. We come from different schools of thought. Yeah. Let me ask a dumb layman question before we finish this. Yeah.

I would love to know, and I'm sure I was told, the difference between sociopath and psychopath. It's not really a relevant distinction. Really? Yeah, yeah. It's not really a relevant distinction. Okay. Yeah, yeah. It's not really a relevant distinction. Okay. So predation and parasite.

Right, right. So a psychopath is a predatory parasite. And that means they're very, very low in agreeableness. No empathy. Tend to be callous. That's the personality manifestation. They're very unconscious. They will not formulate or keep verbal contracts.

Like who are some people who fit this description? Ted Bundy. Oh, I was hoping for more. Well, let me put it another way. Who are some people running for president now? Well, that's an open question, right? So that brings us to the next part of this. So Robert Harris students of variety of them started to study psychopathy in its more normal forms, right? Because you can imagine you're so psychopathic that

you end up like fully criminal and then you're in prison. But that not everybody who has psychopathic proclivities is going to be foolish enough to be criminal enough to be caught. Let's say, right? So there's other things that make you get caught if you're a criminal. So they study, started to study subclinical psychopathy and built a personality inventory to measure subclinical psychopathic traits. And so the traits are psychopathic, so predatory parasite, macchi-evalian. So like a macchi-evalian individual in preparing for an interview like this would be thinking, okay, well, now I'm going to go on Bill's show, what can I get out of it? How can I elevate my status? What could I use to sell?

And then every word would be crafted to extract. Well, every word would be used to extract out something that was only self-serving, right? You know that if this, if your dialogue with someone goes, well, what happens is you fall into an honest conversation. No, it's just because you have no, I mean, I have no agenda and I have no idea where we're going to go. Right. My agenda is to have as close to what this would be if we were not making this into a podcast

and it would be no different. I can honestly say, I don't think it would, one thing I would have done differently. And it should feel that way and I wanted to feel that way. Yeah. And that works, that really works well on YouTube. It's what people want because they're actually tired of overproduced instrumental conversations. Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. So, but a Machiavellian would be manipulating the conversation constantly to get an edge to get an angle And so they they don't use the they a Machiavellian doesn't use their words to represent what they believe to be true They use their words to obtain whatever they're angling for from the person they're talking to and so that happens on the sexual front

For example very often so people who are hyper committed to short-term mating strategies tend to use instrumental language, right? They're manipulative. So psychopathic, macchiabalian, narcissistic. So someone who's narcissistic wants unearned social status, right? And the last one, they had to add this. This triad was first called the dark triad,

and then they had to add sadism. Because it turns out if you're all three of those things, you also take positive delight in the suffering of other people. And there's a very high correlation between the dark tetrad personality traits and leftwing authoritarianism. So that's why I think it's not fundamental. Political is that what's happening is that there's a small minority of people who are very manipulative, who use compassion as a camouflage.

And then people who are generally and genuinely compassionate, they can be manipulated easily. And so, and that's not, that's why you're seeing that's part of the reason you're seeing this deviation, deviation from more classical liberalism. There's no better camouflage for someone who's truly dark than compassion. Right, right. Wow, that is some interesting shit. Yeah, it's brutal.

And the data is accumulative. It's worse than that, too. It's actually really quite frighten me because 3% of the population has these traits, basically, and that's stable cross-culturally. And what seems to happen is if it falls to 1%, everybody forgets that people like that exist. And so then when they pop up, they can be successful.

But if it gets up to about 5%, then everybody thinks, oh, oh, the psychopaths are here and they start beating them back. And so they stabilize around 3%. Any more than that presents a positive danger to the integrity of the state itself. Now, I think we enable the psychopaths online, because I think that online communications

are against our own defenses. Yeah, well, there's a crewing literature on that front, too, because the online troll types who do nothing but cause trouble online and have these personality traits and what what's gonna happen if it tips Best of 3% to 5% or 10. That's what happened in the Russian Revolution Like what happens if it if if those people get the upper hand they like to dance in the ruins man, right? You bet. And they're out for, they're out for mayhem. Right.

And they're drunk on the elixir of revolution. Well, they're not going to be successful pursuing their manipulations in a society that's actually predicated on work. So they want to flip things upside down because they can rape the runes. That's a good way of thinking about it. Right.

Yeah, yeah, it's very bad. And I really am concerned there. Oh. See, because we've virtualized communication, right? And that means that there's certain defenses that we have against being exploited that are no longer making themselves manifest. So you can say anything you want online, and nothing, especially if you're anonymous, and nothing will happen to you. And you can bring any kind of accusation against anyone at zero cost to yourself.

And that's not good. Like it might be, it might be like, fatally not good, because something is driving polarization. You know, 80% Americans agree on most political issues with about an 80% overlap, right? But we're getting polarized. It's like, well, what the hell changed?

Well, how about the entire mode, how about all of our modes of communication, right? They've radically changed and they certainly enable reputation, savaging, gossip, long-grain cancellation, all of that. It's ways you're online. Not just a difference in degree, a difference in kind. Yeah, yeah, different tips. Absolutely. I've had this argument with people on my show say,

oh, you know, that's what they said when radio came in and TV, it's like in computers. No, it's different. It really is different because there wasn't this addictive quality to it. It's a difference in kind. It's the cell phone is more like a pacemaker than a television set.

I was able to turn off the television set, even though I liked I dream of Jeannie and Benanza and whatever, I could have watched it, but it wasn't addicted to it. And they're addicted to it. And you're right, it has changed the wiring. As someone said about another thing, we're building the plane as we're flying it,

especially with kids. Yeah. But. Yeah, and we're doing very strange things on the sexual front too. Oh, very. So I think 35% of internet, yeah, well, exactly, exactly, and in Hollywood in general,

35% of internet traffic is pornographic. And you know, that's a lot. Bad 42 in my house, but I take your point. Well, it's so funny. Women like to say that they're morally superior to men, and in many ways they are. But I never understood why being more interested in shopping than pornography made you morally superior? Because if you look at what most women go to on the internet, it's shopping sites. And what about women like verbal pornography? Well, that's true. Meaning, so there's a typical, no, no, pornographic stories, but not visual. Like, man or pornographic visually, women or pornographic, semantically.

There's a big literature on this. Like, for what is it? I can't, I can't. Well, there's a classic story. It's the story of every Harlequin romance. And there are, there are pornographic Harlequin romances. You're saved by a handsome man. Yeah, well, that's part of it.

It's 50 Shades of Great. Right, this is the biggest selling novel ever. Ever. Right, okay, so... And I believe directed by a woman, written by a woman, and certainly enjoyed by women. Yes, right at the height of me too, by the way.

Yes, well, the first one may, oh, me too, yes. The book, correct, yes. So that was very interesting. Okay, so here's the plot, it's Beauty and the Beast. So the Google engineers figured this out because they looked at billions of internet searches for pornographic material from women and they analyzed the narrative. Really? Yeah, yeah, it's so cool.

There's a book called a billion wicked thoughts that the Google engineers wrote. Oh. Yeah, and Google engineers make great psychologists because they're too stupid to be politically correct. So they just tell you it's actually true and they don't even know that there's something wrong with it. It's like, this is just what happened because they're engineers. Right.

They're nerds. Yeah, yeah. So they just think, oh, this is what the doubt is shows. You've got a problem with that. How would anyone have a problem with that? Because they're engineers, right? So, okay. So there's five males categories that are hyper-attractive on the pornographic

front to women. Vampires, war wolves, pirates, surgeons, and billionaires. Hey, that's right, that's right, man. So, you know, I can't help this. This is just how it is. And so- So, if you were a billionaire pirate with a medical degree, you could truck and kill it out there, huh? You'd be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

you'd be slaying it, yeah, absolutely. Okay, so now the next part of it is, a lot of the build-up is for play. So what happens is the billionaire pirate, war wolf vampire, finds this girl who has kind of a secret beauty, right? And they have a very froncious, a secret beauty, right? And they have a very frot. A secret beauty, yes. Yeah,

well, you know, it's like a Hollywood library. Well, I mean, that's, she's not beautiful with her glasses. Right. Because that covers anybody who's reading it to thinking who's not very attractive. They could think, Oh, well, I have a secret. Exactly. Exactly. It weighs a ton, but it's secret. Okay. Now, they have a fraccious relationship, right? Because he's attractive to all sorts of other women and there's quite a bit of tension and fighting. But eventually she tames him with her secret beauty. And then that's when that's when the wild sex starts. Not just her secret beauty, but her awesome personality. Because well. So that's the female pornographic pattern, by the way. Not that.

Yeah. And it's, it's horrible. I come on. Not as many women read Harlequin romances as men view pornography. All men look at pornography. I don't think all women do that. I think women are a little more, um, I don't, I don't know, I don't know. I wouldn't know how to quantify the comparison

exactly, but believe me, there's there's, there's, well, 50 shades of gray is a great example. Yes. You know, like, like, oh, no, no, no, no, women, I mean, look, women are in a bind now because like the politics tells them to say one thing, especially about sex. We're definitely going to get in trouble here. You know, I don't care. Troubles coming for sure. If either one of us cared would be this far along, or you got to, what you have to do is lean in. I mean, that's what we both do. It's like, no, I'm going to trust that there are this certain percentage, hopefully more than 3% psychos. Yeah, hopefully. Who are sane people who are, you know, again, the idea that the people who they say are these arch-conservative bad guys now, the Canadian professor or Barry Weiss, you know,

a lesbian. Joe Rogan, can't wait to be alt-right. Yeah. I know, Joe, he's conservative, man. He's never met anybody more conservative than Joe Rogan. He's the same Harris, you know, these people who were like, it wasn't that long ago when we were just regular liberal folks. Are you a joke? Are you a joke? Are you a joke? Are you a joke? Are you a joke? Are you a joke? Are you a joke?

Are you a joke? Are you a joke? Are you a joke? Are you a joke? Are you a joke? Are you a joke? Are you a joke? Are you a joke?

Are you a joke? Are you a joke? Are you a joke? Are you a joke? Are you a joke? Are you a joke? Are you a joke? Are you a joke?

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I use it. I think it's doing pretty good. Check out NeilNaturalPathic.com. We were talking about female pornography. Oh, yes, yeah. Yes, that's very important. That we're having someone on the show, Meal pornography. Oh, yes. Yeah. Yes, that's very important that We're having someone on the show a Rachel Bilsenist is an actress coming on I can't wait to talk to her because she

Made a statement about how she basically likes sex and it was like she likes the guy she just basically described But the entire experience of my whole life like women, women, do they want to be raped? Of course not. Should you be rough? No. Blah, blah, blah. But they want a man. They don't, if they wanted to be with a woman,

they could do that. I don't know what her exact words were, but it was something like, I like, it's this old shit about the, the, that's why the fantasy is this. They want to be, they want a guy. There's a fine line that this, they want to be, they want a guy, there's a fine line that a gentleman knows how to pull off

between not being scary or rapy or over the line, but having a pair of bolts and just not being a woman at all. Being, yes, it's a domination. I know. Also not being a narcissistic psychopath. Right. So you see that really well laid out

in Disney's Beauty and the Beast. Yes. Because there's Gaston, he's like Trudeau, he's like Justin Trudeau, except more muscular and no definitely. And you know, beauty is relatively what she's, she's, she's, she's clued in, she's intelligent. And she prefers the guy who's like the actual beast, because he's honest and tamable. And that like the female pornographic, literary structure is identical to Beauty and the Beast. It's the same story. So in the Beauty and the Beast,

she has another choice for a lover. Yeah, the Beast. No, but another, Oh yeah, he's not. No, was there another guy who is a more, that's, Gaston is not the Beast. No, Gaston is the guy who is trying to entice beauty, who ends up trying to kill the beast, but the beast kills him.

And Gaston is a regular looking guy. He's no, he's extremely handsome, and like don't be girls in the village who love him. He's like, he's very narcissistic. Yeah. So he's the fake, he's a fake. Yeah, but he's like, you know, Neater Meyer and Nanimal House, right?

I mean, there's always, there's always has to be that stiff, good looking guy in the college movie, who the girl, you know, he thinks he can easily get the girl because he's the good looking captain of the foot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's all. Okay, and then the subversive dude winds up getting her in the end because that's our fantasy. Right, right. That's the fantasy of creative near life. Guess don't get the girl nine at its end times. I mean we're like, come on. She's a beauty. We're comedians and professors. We're not in that league, bro. Yeah. Well, at least we do better than engineers. No. Exactly. That was fucking nerds. Now listen, not that this stuff isn't important and it's

certainly not all about me, but I got one really important question. I got to ask you from about 10 minutes ago, you mentioned these five areas. And I feel like I'm clear on four at the five. I am not a bad, I'm not a parasite. I'm not a predator. I'm not a parasite. I'm not a predator. I'm not a Maccaballion. That's the one. I'm a little iffy. Let's go back. What are the other two? The

Narcissist. I'm not that sadist. No. Okay. Well good sadist part. That's very good. So One question. You're the doc. I mean, can I, I can, I do have macchiabalian qualities. Here, I'll put it this way. The difference between me and my father, my father would always just do the right thing. Yeah. Me, I think about doing the wrong thing. Yeah.

But then I don't, because I was raised by my father. Right, right, right. But I felt like with because I was raised by my father. Right, right, right. But I felt like with him, it's the natural thing. And me, I will always go, you know, I, and I don't. But, you know, the thing, but it's a little Machiavelli. Well, yeah, look, first of all, I'm not sorry about that. People who are in media and any branch of entertainment, any branch of public life, journalism, politicians, the sins so to speak that they're going to be more tempted towards are the sins on the narcissistic side of

the equation, right? Right. Right. Because and there's a reason for that and the reason is they're going to be extroverted. So they want they want their their talkative. They're assertive. They want they want to be in the limelight and their and the comedians also have to be they have to be in the limelight. And the comedians also have to be... They have to be disagreeable because if you're not disagreeable, you can't be a comedian. Look at Bill Burr. I mean, everything he says is like, ornery is hell, right? And it's funny. Right.

And almost all comedy is transgressive. And you have to be kind of rude to be transgressive. And so you're low in agreeableness. And then you're very high in openness, which is the creativity dimension. So of course, all manner of crazy ideas are going to enter your head. Because that's part of the issue of being creative, isn't it? You don't know the half of it. Yeah. Well, you know, I might know it better than you think. And you might. Yes. Yeah. I can't tell you how great it is to have you back. Well, thank you, sir. Honestly, there was a lot of people who, when you were down and out, were very sad

that like, oh man, that is one guy on the team. And our team is not that big. Yeah. That we cannot afford to lose. You know, so to have you come back and be so on it and looking good and funny and, you know, brave as always man. That is, and you got lots of shit coming up, right? Don't you have a, what do you, what do you have? Let's do our plugs. I will be, we're not done by even a little. This

is, but plugs that I always forget August 19 19th, Evans Auditorium, Charlotte, North Carolina, August 20th at the township in Columbia, South Carolina. September 1st at the Moody Theater in Austin, Texas, September 2nd, Texas, Texas, Trust, C.U. Theater and Grand Prairie, Texas. This is nothing wrong with making a little money and having people laugh. And I mean, you know, Mary and Williamson was just here and I love her.

But, you know, we definitely have a- I actually think that's from last year. No, I'm been serious. I've been serious. Yeah, yeah. No, no, I've been reading this all week. No. I might not even know my own schedule. It's possible. I thought to make- No, that's me. That own schedule. It's possible. I thought to make sure. That's okay.

Oh, sorry. I thought you were plugging me. Jesus Christ. This is about you. That's his death. Yeah. Those are my. Those are my.

What's your, no, let's do, I think that's hysterical. You thought they were yours. Yeah, no, Jesus. That's what happens when two people are talking. How disappointing. It's like who's plugging who here? How disappointed people would be if I showed up

and they thought it was you, they would be like, oh my God. Okay, so what are your dates? All right, well, what have I got coming up? I'm doing a European tour at the European, Europe and the Middle East in early October. Middle East? Yeah, I'm going to the East in early October. Middle East. Yeah, I'm going to the United Arab Emirates.

UAE. You bet. You bet. Oh my God. Turns out I have a lot of Muslim followers. Great. Right. Followers isn't the right word.

No. Viewers, listeners and readers. That's right. That's fantastic. That's fantastic. I'm very much looking forward to it. Yes. I haven't been to Israel.

That's the only part of the Middle East I've been to so far. And so yes, I'm very excited about that. And I've actually done a number of podcasts with Muslim thinkers of various stripes ranging from, you know, real apostate types like Ion Hershey Ali to people who are, you know, Muslim traditionalists. And that's been extremely interesting. And one of the things that's really been positive about that, I gotta tell you, that even talking to the more traditionalist Muslim types is, first of all, those podcasts attracted very large audiences, like multiple millions of people. And the fundamental comment, like,

because I read a lot of comments about my YouTube podcasts, the most common podcast by by far were expressions of relief on the part of Muslims that they were part of the conversation. So that was really, really heartening to some. There must be such a hunger and a earthquake waiting to happen in the Islamic world for, I mean, look, I've taken my lumps, especially after 9-11 talking, I think

honestly about the problem, the same thing Sam Harris has identified so beautifully, that there is a unique problem with the religion, whatever religion it is at any time in history that is the most fundamentalist. And at this time in our history, that is Islam. Well, it might be, it might be world liberalism. Hey, man, it's a toss. No, well, that is a religion too. Yes. Yeah. But, you know, it also might be which religion is being game-post-effectively at any given moment by the psychopaths. Right. But if I draw a mean cartoon of AOC, I'm not going to get killed. Yeah. But if I draw the wrong cartoon and the other religion, I will.

So that's not a good thing. So I'm going to like make that important to me, like which one could really kill me. But things, I really feel like things have changed a lot. I haven't talked about this in a long time. They have changed. Because terrorism hasn't really been in the headlines. Yeah, well, the Abraham Accords were a big step forward. Yes, they were a big step forward.

And things changed. I thought it was just amused me. I think, must be in Minnesota, I think, where there's a large Muslim population. I forget the city, but the liberals there were very proud of themselves that they elected a majority Muslim school board, which then during pride month refused to do the prolly. Oh, and that's always the kind of drum liberals have found themselves in, which I always ridiculed, and of course they hated me for it, that how can you be liberal? Because there are minority or a different religion

or their skin is brown, support them in the most illiberal actions, just the way the women, with the really, we're putting a fucking tarp of her woman's head. And this is not like job one on your woke agenda would be to get the fucking, it's like what they put on a prisoner,

you know, when we're kidnapping you. That's not job one to get that off every woman's head in the world. That would be mine. If I like, it was like, okay, welcome to the meaning of liberals and wokesters. And we got, we have, we have the social justice warriors and we must establish social justice wherever it's being violated

That would be very high on my meeting agenda. Right. You'd go for the countries where There's real pressure. I would go for that specific act. I mean if there was a country where say It was black and white people and they were making the black people wear the shroud on the head. What would would we just be like, ah, I see, that's how you do things? Okay, great. You do you. That's what liberalism is. Everyone, agriculture is a difference. Yeah, well, it's it's very, very hard to get the balance between discrimination in the positive sense, right? Discriminating between what isn't appropriate and what is, and it's what is it's justice and mercy. It's the balance between justice and mercy,

between discrimination and tolerance. And I mean, it's hard with your kids, right? Because obviously you love your kids, but it's like, no, not everything you do is okay. Right. And so, right, because that's not good, right? That turns you into a real monster, is it? Everything you do is okay, dear. It's like really everything, mom. You mean everything.

If you ask me what the absolute source of the mess we're in is, now I would say it is that kind of parenting. Seriously, because I think what happened was parents told their kids in this century, and I guess starting in the 90s, I guess it got worse every decade. They said my generation was little too self-involved and it just got worse, but they indulged the kids so much and blew smoke up their ass and told them that they were little geniuses and didn't challenge them on anything

and treated them like peers, even though they were two feet tall when they walked in the room. Like when I walked in the room when I was a kid, like you couldn't just invite yourself into the adult conversation as you should not have been able to. You were a child.

That's not how they do it today. So the kid grows up thinking that even though he's a child with the kind of stupid thoughts that are in a child's head, that they're valid, And then those thoughts become like what that generation that then starts running the media outlets and so forth, puts out there. So I read headlines in actual esteemed magazines and newspapers like the one I read about women, it was in the Atlantic. I think the name of the article was separating sports by sex doesn't make sense. It does. Of course, they actually wrote the line. It was something like keeping the binary in sports reinforces the idea that men are bigger and

stronger and faster than women. That's not an idea. You see what I mean about like, this is insanity, but it was said by some kid who's young enough to think it's true or just wanted to be true, and no adult ever said. I know that's just crazy. So I've been trying to figure out why this has happened. And you can generically attribute it to a kind of moral decay, but that's not very precise. And so there's a bunch of things that have happened in the last 60 years that I think have contributed to this. And some of them are very complex. So one of them is parents are a lot older than they used to be, right?

They have many, many fewer children, right? And so that's a really interesting one because that means that comparatively speaking, each child is hyper valued. And obviously there's some utility in that, but there's some real danger in it, too. Children don't have a lot of siblings. And the thing about siblings is they take the narcissism out of you because siblings compete like mad for attention. And if you're like center of the universe among your brothers and sisters, they're not going to be very happy about that. Right. Right. So like in parents, now, as old as grandparents were historically.

happy about that. Right. Right. So like in parents now, as old as grandparents were historically. Right. So those are radical shifts. And there's another thing that I've noticed too, is that there's because the separation between the generations now is longer in terms of years by double, there's also a real, there's real impediments to the intergenerational transmission of knowledge about parenting, like I was just working with my son the other day with a little bit of a disciplined problem he was having with his 14-month-old who was getting pretty bossy. And my son doesn't take a lot of nonsense. He's not a pushover, but he didn't know what to do.

And I suggested to him what to do. I told him what to do, but he couldn't do it. I went there with him and showed him how to do it, and then he could do it, but he couldn't do it by being told. And who are you doing with the kid? Well, when she got squawky and demanding, I just put her in the crib. So I see. Squawk until you're done, and then you can come out again, and as soon as you're peaceful,

you can come out. I see. You you're peaceful, you can come out. I see. You know, because and by. And even at that age, they can get. Absolutely. They get to nine months. Really? Oh, yes, absolutely.

Now, it depends on the kid. Right. And not all kids are going to be like that. Right. But the kids that are more extroverted and disagreeable are going to be like that. But even before they can talk, they can think. Oh. Well, obviously they're... Yes, yes.

They don't, first of all... They're understanding that you're making a demand of them. Oh, well, and kids are going to use whatever tools they have at hand to get attention. Yes, they're Machiavelling kids. Yes, they are, they are. And then some kids are more Machiavelling than others. And there can be real advantages in that too. Like right.

Like a kid who isn't a pushover can be socialized with extreme precision. Right. Because they're pushing their checking out to see where the boundaries are. And so they can really learn to be socially sophisticated, but they're also a handful. So, you know, you don't get a benefit without a cost. Anyways, it was interesting to watch, because even though he's not a pushover, he couldn't figure out exactly what to do without having it acted out. And so now we're extending the gap between generations. And so I think we've interfered with the intergenerational transmission of parenting knowledge.

And it's not that easy to know when to put a disciplinary boundary on a child. You know, it's a very complicated thing to do and it's hard on mothers in particular because up till the age of about nine months, whenever your child manifests any sign of distress, your job as a mother is to assume the child is 100% correct and fix the distress. But at some point, there's a transition because a lot of the distress now becomes anger and it can become manipulative anger. And so now you have to step back and you have to think, well now kid everything that you're bitching about, you can't get. But it's really hard for mothers to make that transition because they've had to care for this creature for like nine months and do exactly what they were bitten to do immediately.

And all of that was appropriate. And so there's a complex shift that has to take place. And it isn't obvious to me that people can do that alone. So there's lots of factors that have led to this. Then there's another one. You tell me what you think about this. This is actually one of the flaws I think of liberalism per se. So like I've thought of myself, I think for my whole life as a classic liberal, but

I've started to understand the limitations of the liberal philosophy on a broader scale. You tell me what you think about this. So, and it centers on issues of identity. And I think clinical psychologists and psychiatrists have also been part of this relatively pathological transformations. Like everyone should be free, as free as they can possibly be.

It's like, yes, but that only works. That set of principles only works in a society that's bounded by nested relationships. So let's think about what what how you might be if you were functioning optimally. I'd say, well, my psyche would be arranged properly. It's all subjective, right? My mental health, my subjective mental health is tip top and paramount. And that's within me. What's nested? Well, okay, here's what you have to have to be saying as far as I can tell. Like, it's pretty hard to be saying

unless you have some continuous direct, relatively intimate relationships. Because you're gonna have parts of you that are gonna go in the stray and unless you have someone around to whack you on a regular basis, you're gonna degenerate there. All right, so you need, let's say you need an intimate relationship to keep you bounded, both of you, right?

Because I think you take the typical man and woman and you put them together, they sort of approximate one sane person. Really? Yeah, yeah, and then it's in that interaction that the sanity emerges. It's not inside, it's in the interaction. And then your friends bind you, right? Because if you're boring, they don't listen to you. And if you're annoying, they turn away from you. And like you're getting social cues all the time about where you're

drifting, right? And so you have your friends that keep you in line. You have your extended family and not to interrupt, but that's why stars. Yes, that's right. Become self-destructed because the friends are really all become hangers on who want to curry favor, never tell them the truth. Right? Well, then what happens? Then the, then the, whatever strategy is there, multiplies.

You die straining on the toilet. Yeah, right. Right, right, right. Okay, so, okay. So you see, that isn't really how we conceptualize mental health. Now we think of it as something that's within, but. Oh, wait, you said relationship friend, friends, family, extended family. Yeah, but then there's more. There's, there's community. Well, there's the political organizations around you. There's your business relationships,

like you're nested in a hierarchy of social relationships. And if you can take those for granted, then you can say like the English liberals did when they established liberalism, then you can be free. Yeah, but you have to be nested in all those relationships before that freedom doesn't just make you drift into some insane direction. And now we've got this situation where we tell young people, well, you can be whatever you want to be.

It's like, you mean whatever? Well, no, but seriously, right? Because if you're a girl and you can be a boy, you can be whatever you want to be. No, when I was a kid and we said to a kid, what do you want to be when you grow up? We met like firemen. Right.

We didn't mean like girl. We also didn't mean drag queen. No, there's something wrong with a drag queen. In a club at night in New York. Exactly. Why that's a hill, the Democrats want to die on. I have no idea. All I can say is that's what happens when there's this institutional capture of what, I don't think most Democrats, most liberals

are in league with what the far left is saying, they're just a afraid of them. Yeah, right, well, just afraid of them. There's good reason to be afraid of, of course. Of course, it will take you, well, look, I've known at least 200 people who've been canceled. Like I have a very wide network of canceled people. And virtually every single one of them,

when they got canceled, responded to it about the same way you would respond to either a very, very bad court battle or a very, very bad illness. Like, it really wipes people out. Now, you get the odd person, Douglas Murray is like this, by the way, he's up for the fight, right? He's a hard guy to cancel and put in a court.

But most people who are canceled, man, it just devastates. No, that's why I said, when you got sick, I feel like there's a little team. We don't all agree on everything, but we all kind of agree on that there's a thing called sanity, and there's a certain amount of stuff that lands in it and certain stuff that lands out. And we don't have to agree on, we kind of like the fact that we don't have to agree on everything. But we're- Well, you don't learn otherwise, do you? You don't learn.

But, you know, in general, we don't have that many things to disagree on. So yeah, I agree. The idea that we would lose any member of the team, this little avenger squad that we have, I feel like is very threatening because I feel like there are people who only think all day long about how to cancel people, how to get rid of people. That is their raise on debtor and they would like to think of themselves as social justice warriors, and they're just fucking mean girls.

It's not about the worrying, and it's not about the social, and it's not about the justice, nearly as much as it is about, I got this scalp on my wall, and let's say that's the sadism part. That's right. I found somebody who's less morally aware than me and my friends because they didn't

get the memo about Latinx. We say Latinx now. Oh, shut up, fetch girl. You know. Well, and it's interesting too that you bring up the issue of mean girls because there are male patterns of anti social behavior and there are female patterns. And the male pattern tends to tilt towards physical violence, which is partly why almost everyone who's in prison is male,

because we really put the clamps down on physical violence. Right. But the female antisocial pattern, which is well established, by the way, in the clinical literature, is reputation, savaging, gossip, mongering, and exclusion, and it scales online.

Oh, wait, say that again. Reputation, savag, gossip, mongering, and exclusion, and it scales online. Oh, wait, say that again. Reputation, savaging. So this is what chicks do as opposed to us. You bet. We're so right. When men are like, men are like, I'll kill you. Yeah.

And women are like, I'll make you kill yourself. Right, right, right, right, right. Yeah, yeah. I'll make you wish you were dead. Yeah, yeah. So I'll actually make you kill yourself because that happens a lot. That's online bullying, right?

You bet. They get some 14 year old and they just, and look, I so understand this, even though I'm just oceans away from the era where cell phones were part of your teenhood. But I sure do remember the feeling of having a not in my stomach. Most days, I went to, I would say,

that I went to school for many, many years because there was so much bullying, embarrassment, potential, ostracism. Yeah, imagine what that would be like with cell phones where every bloody thing you stupid thing you did at a party was really good. And it never leaves. At least you could go home yeah right after school and the cell phone didn't folly but it follows you into your bedroom yeah it might follow you for the rest of your life

and it might you know I'm so not being able to forget is a terrible thing correct and you know if you can record everything more my eyes smoked this. Yeah, right. Exactly. Exactly. Who are you? No, it's, it's absolutely true. Eugenio Neal said, a life without illusions is unpartenable and a life with illusions is unbearable. Yeah, well, you need to be able to forget and you need to be able to forgive. And it's also the case that it isn't obvious at all that virtual communication facilitates forgiveness. Right, it's really good at facilitating the avengeful mob.

What is? Online communication. Online communication. Because you don't have mobs of people who are going out together to forgive like no that's not happening Right in the Bible it does yeah, yeah, but it doesn't like it doesn't it doesn't make itself and even if it does have a line It doesn't track detention. You were talking about Sodom and Gomorrah. Yeah, that was you right it was me It was Mary and Williamson right? He was. It was me. It was Mary and Williamson. Okay, so I was there when we were making religious. That was one of the places. And this is the one with lots wife. Yep. So I feel like I

study this and I didn't remember these like intricate permutations. Yeah, he got was bargain down to 10 people. Yeah, yeah. That's actually why they could have started it. But it started to look for the, for the 10 people. But it started at 40. It started at 40. I mean, I just love the way they love the Bible. And it's the greatest book and they swear on it.

But it has these things that are like, comically stupid and corrupt. I mean, God is so corrupt in the Bible. I mean, you can bark in human, you know, he does things that are so capricious and cruel and, you know, petty. I mean, he's very Trumpian. Well, I've been I've been walking. I released a series on, started to release it yesterday on YouTube on, on the story of Exodus. And it's a 16 part series, 32 hours on Exodus. Yeah, I had nine people come down and I've been, I've been walking through the biblical

corpus. That was actually something I wanted to talk to you today about. I love it. Yeah, well, I love it that you're a real professor. So like a personality and a TV guy and like a great voice, but you're the real deal. You're an academic So there is a there's a very interesting idea that lurks behind the notion that you can establish a covenant with God and The and you can tell me what you make of this. It's like The it's a reflection of the fact that human beings bargain with fate all the time.

We bargain with the future all the time. So here's how we do it. And this is what you teach your kids. You teach your kids that if you forego immediate gratification, so you give it up, sacrifice it because that's the sacrifice, that the future will be better as a consequence. Well, that's okay. It's a contractual relate. Well, that's what's trying, the right, that's the thing that's so interesting

is that it actually will. If you don't have that piece of cake tonight, yeah, you'll be healthier tomorrow. Right, right. And if you don't go off and play with your friends immediately after school, but play the piano for 20 minutes, then in 10 years when you're actually a musician,

all sorts of, okay, so, but it's, see, this is something that's very uniquely human because human beings have learned that if we give up, there are certain forms of immediate gratification. If we give them up, which means we offer them up, it's a sacrificial offering, then we can make a covenant, a bargain with the future. That's what's being reflected in those stories

where the notion is that you can bargain with God. I love all that shit. I went to Cornell. I took a Bible course. But all the stuff I took, I knew I was going to be a comedian. So I didn't like take any courses for any other reason why then, oh, this looks interesting. And I'm a liberal arts major.

And so, like, all those courses where they go into such detail and they really delve into going over the text in a way that they try to understand how those people were thinking. And that to me is just delicious academia. I remember, I did not have any sort of social life at Cornell, but I did have all these intellectual epiphanies from all these professors who you remind me of who like

to introduce these ideas and these and oh okay so I knew that story all these years and now I'm really understanding it. It's I kind of missed that. We released the series on the Daily Wire first and and it was the most popular thing they ever made, apart from Matt Walsh's documentary on what is a woman. So yeah, it's very strange. It's very strange because it's very academic. It's a very academic seminar series. Well, I mean, the Bible is so well known, even by people who haven't read it. And by the way, a lot of the people who put their hand on it and love it so much have never read it, certainly not all the way through.

It's a big long book. Yes, it is. And it's full of mostly nonsense. Once in a while, it stumbles upon wisdom. You know, I mean, it's, but come on, you gotta give these people their due. I mean, it was written as, first of all, it's an anthology.

I'm gonna tell you a story. Okay. I'm Bible Story. Tell me what you think of a Bible Story. This is, this is, Jordan, I love your Bible. I'm going to tell you a story. Okay. I'm Bible Story. I'm talking about Bible Story. This is the story of Bible Story. I love your Bible Story. Okay, this is a Bible Story. So I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm looking at the story of Jonah.

Yeah. And this is a story that you'll appreciate. So here's what happens to Jonah. He's just minding his own business. And then he, the voice of God comes to him and it's, and the voice says, you have to go to this city, Nineveh. Because everybody in Nineveh is like, they've straight off the path, and I'm thinking about

wiping them out. But you can maybe go there and tell them, like, how foolish they are, and they'll straighten up, and then I won't have to destroy the city. And Jonah thinks, there's no God damn way I'm going to do that. First of all, Nineveh is a city of his enemies. Babylonia. It's a city that he's not allied with. And so he thinks, well, you guys can go to hell and hand-basket and if God wipes out, that's perfectly fine with me. And then he also thinks, like any wise man would. It's like, I see, this is the task you have for me. It's like, there's

150,000 people there. I'm a foreigner. I'm going to go there and tell them how their misbehaving, and that's going to work out well for me. So he thinks to hell with that, like any sensible person would, and he doesn't say what he has to say, right? So then he hops on a boat and he gets to hell out of there. Well, it turns out that God's not very happy if you're informed that you have something to say and then you don't say it. So the storms come and the waves rise and now the ships endangere. So what is that? You got the well.

Yes, that's right. It means that if you don't say what you have to say when you're called upon to say it, you'll put the whole damn ship at risk. Now the soldiers figure this out or the sailors, they figure out, there must be someone on boat that like isn't right with God, and that's why we're in danger of being swamp. So they would go and ask everybody, and Jonah to his credit says, yeah, it's me, you know,

I had the voice of conscience made itself manifest to me. I had a task to do, I refused it, I'm screwing things up. And the sailors actually try to save them, but it doesn't work, so they throw them overboard. Now you think, okay, Jonas got what he deserves, because he shut the hell up when he had something to say. And now he's going to die. And you think that's pretty damn rough. And partly, what that means is, if you hold your tongue when you have something to say, then you're going to put the ship at risk, and you'll be lucky if you don't die. All right, but that's not enough. That's not

nearly enough, because that isn't all that happens if you don't say what you're called upon to say. So the next thing that happens is Jonas drowning away, that's about as bad as it gets, and then this creature from hell itself comes up from the bottom of the abyss and takes him down. And so now he's in hell for three days. And so that's the next part of the story, which is that if you're called upon to say what you have to say and you refuse it, like you'll end up in a place where you wish you were dead. It's the whale. Oh, okay.

But it's the same thing, like that in the story, the whale is described as hell. Exactly the same idea. In religious, the guy who was arguing with me, and he said, And he said who's very this point was very important to me said the Bible does not say well. It says big fish Okay, well now it makes perfect Yeah, well, it's it's the thing or what it is it's a it's a representation of the thing that dwells in the dark It's so interesting that you see the lessons in these, and I just always read these things as like super fucking stupid

from the Bronze Age, you know? And obviously they were telling people something. I mean, whoever wrote this, was had a message in mind. Well, they were trying to fit, look, they were trying to figure out by telling stories how the state itself got corrupted. And this is one of those stories. So the story is, telling stories how the state itself got corrupted. This is one of those stories.

So the story is, here's how the state gets corrupted. You're called upon to tell your fellow man, enemy or not, when they're not behaving property. When your conscience tells you to do that, you're called upon to do that. If you don't do that, the whole ship will start to rot. Do you think the ancients who are reading this at the time, and they read the story about the, they get swallowed by the big philge or the whale, you think they got this message, they were like, yeah, but what this really means is when you're called upon, excuse me, I'm talking, when you're called upon, then you step up and do it.

No, no, I would say it's a step and it's a dream-like step in the developing of understanding. So before you fully understand something, you can represent it in a story, right? It's kind of halfway. A kid will start to understand something by acting it out. They may. I mean, they may have gotten it, or they may have gotten on an unconscious level, right?

They got it at an implicit level, which is what you get when you watch a story as you get it at a implicit level. Which is what you get when you watch a story as you get it at a implicit level. And it's actually very powerful. Right? I mean, when people go to movies, most of the time, most people when they go to movies, don't sit around afterwards and discuss what the movie meant. They just enjoy the story.

But that doesn't mean they didn't learn anything. It just means they don't reflect on what they learned. Now, the people who came up with these stories, they were telling the stories because the stories were really interesting, but the question, there's a deeper question is, well, why the hell was that story interesting, and why was it remembered? And so, what happens to Jonah is that he's in the whale for three days, and then he thinks, now I'm in hell. Okay, I'm gonna repent of my inadequacy. I'm willing to say what I have to say.

So the whale spits them up on the beach. Then he goes to Nineveh and he tells everybody what the hell they're doing wrong and God decides to spare the city. And so for me, this story encounters. To win win. It's, well, it's a little hard on Jonah. You know, hell thing.

He does, he lives, that's right. That's a real story on Jonah. Well, the way he's the hell. He does. He lives, that's right. He lives a real, did he relocate to Nineveh? No, no, it's just a pilgrimage to Nineveh. Oh, okay, so he did, okay. But he goes there and then the city is in fact saved, but it's perfect, Bill, because what it shows, and I know you know this, because you wouldn't speak the way you speak, and this is truth, comedians,

in general. You know that you have a moral obligation, like a deep and profound moral obligation. I do. To say what you have to say. And well, then you might say, well, what would happen if people didn't say that? Well, that's the story of Sodom and Gomorrah is everyone, if there isn't anyone who's left who is good and will tell the truth, then the whole city disappears. And the same thing happens in the story of Jonah. So where it turns to hell? Everything turns to hell. So where is North America now on this scale of like how many? Well, you tell me, I mean, you tell me what do you see in Hollywood? How terrified are people of telling their truthful stories now? Oh, everybody. Okay. So, no, it's, I mean, we're, no, we're in a terrible place and they're, yeah, I mean,

look, I'm not going to get into the strike stuff, but it's rough not being able to put a voice out there. I'm not just talking about mine, but our show is one of the few places where you would see people of differing viewpoints. Instead of you watch Fox News, you watch MSNBC, you know exactly what they're going to say. What you know what the question is, the answer always begins with,

you're so right Chris. Right, right, right're so right Chris. Okay, that's not what we do. And I feel like there should be more of that, and with a strike on, there's none of that. So it's a little scary. Well, I'd be talking. When you only hear the one side or the side of the bubble you're in. Well, I'd be talking. Wait, when you only hear the one side or the side of the bubble you're in. Or if you're only allowed to say what the like narcissistic Machiavellians want you to say

for their own nefarious purposes. I mean, I've talked to lots of people in the entertainment industry who tell me flat out that they're even starting to censor themselves. No, they can't sit alone in the room now and write down what they actually think or even tell the story they wanna tell without having that voice in the back of their head going,

you know, if you probably shouldn't go there because, you know, the mob's gonna come for you. And for creative people, as soon as the, what, the angry mob, the angry mob is the tyrant who can't stand the gesture. So like as soon as you have the angry mob in your head, you're done as a creative person. You're right. Especially if you're a comedian because you have to be expressive.

It's led to a lot of stress in my life. I would say more than anything else, except relationships. You know, I had to take me a long time to learn that I'm not really built for like the kind of standard. I mean, you, when When you were ticking off those five things you need to be happy or whatever. I must say that's the one time my bristles sort of went up because I don't know if you're saying this exactly, but I've read it in other places. I forget the guy's name, but he's a famous doctor and he wrote a book on how to like be, you know, there's a lot of books like that. How to live to be a million years old or, you know, how to don't die if you don't have to. Right, right, right, right. It's good title. Yeah. You know what,

it said it really is. And one of his things was, you know, he had like 40 things he's supposed to do, and I agreed with most of them, you know, obviously staying in shape and, you know, he had like 40 things you're supposed to do, and I agreed with most of them. You know, obviously, stay in shape and, you know, don't eat sugar and one of them was be married. And I was like, you know, for you. It bothers the unmarried. And there's actually, I think, probably now more of us than married now in America. I think that we tipped over that point a few years ago.

I think singles are the majority. It's just that idea that, you know, well, you're this doctor, you're supposed to be really smart. A lot of what you say is smart, but you don't get that that's like a personal thing. And, you know, I hate to put it this way, but sometimes when somebody gets cancer and they're like, I couldn't have gotten through it without my wife or I couldn't have gone through without my husband.

And I always want to say, yeah, maybe they gave it to you. Yeah, well, you know, relationships can be definitely... Yes, the stress of one. I'm talking about it, of course. Well, it's funny, though, you know, because is it... How much of it do you think is the stress of relationship and how much do you think of it? How much of it do you think is the difficulty of relationship and how much do you think of it? How much of it do you think is the difficulty of maintaining a relationship through the stresses of life? Right? Because the... Hey, not be.

Not be. Not life. Life is not the problem. It's the relationship itself. It's the monotony. I mean, I get people are different. And like, some people, they love that. I know guys who like, they cannot wake up alone.

And that's not me. People are different. And I don't think we give that enough respect, that idea. I think there's a lot of this assuming, if you're not, if you wanna be happy, be married. Just get in, get in line. But come on, there's what we're doing here. We're doing the marriage thing to be a thing you do you, you know, a quill. So while we talked about this a little bit earlier in terms of the utility of, of sustaining relationships to sort of keep you tapped

into shape. Yeah. Okay. So if you're, if you don't have a lot of... That does in some of them. Yeah. And have they tapped into shape? And have they tapped into shape. And have they tapped into shape. And have they tapped into shape. And have they tapped into shape.

And have they tapped into shape. And have they tapped into shape. And have they tapped into shape. And have they tapped into shape. And have they tapped into shape. And have they tapped into shape. And have they tapped into shape. And have they tapped into shape.

And have they tapped into shape. And have they tapped into shape. And have they tapped into shape. And have they tapped into shape. And have they tapped into shape. And have they tapped into shape. And know what? My parents. Yeah, okay. So a lot of it is you were brought up. I'm very grateful that I was brought up in the era. I was brought up in and not the one we have alluded to tonight where people are spoiled and where you were overprotected. I was not overprotected.

I'm so much. First of all, adulthood just seems like all gravy compared to how much anxiety and fear I had in my childhood. And many people will say the opposite, but to me childhood was even when it was not bad and I didn't have a bad, nothing bad happened. I mean, I had wonderful parents, you know, grew up in a placid, New Jersey setting in the 60s. It was very, very, very leave it to beaver.

But I still was like a nervous mess going to school because there was no such thing as like protecting you from bullying. There was one kid, it was bullied so unmercibly. I can't believe he didn't kill himself, but we were made a sternor stuff. So, I mean, the fact that I had that kind of upbringing where I wasn't overprotected, where I got understood very early, certainly

before I went off to college, what real sorrow was, not that I went to war or anything, that would be the ultimate. But like, you know, getting dumped the first time when you're in 17 and, you know, just the bullying stuff in the schools and all that kind of stuff, you're going off to college and then college, there was no social life in Cornell it really sucked. I mean, by the time I got into adulthood I was like, what happens to me?

It's just not worse than Cornell. And so it's all been gravy. And I was always meant to be an adult. I like adult things. I didn't even like children when I was a child. I thought they were very childish. I went to Cornell the first semester. I alienated the entire dorm because they were having shaving cream fights every night.

Okay, it's funny for a week. And then it was like, and I like said something. And then I was like the asshole, Neater Meyer, and had to like lock myself in the room while they banged on the door and, you know, wrote bad. You know, it's like, that was my experience up until like almost until I got out here. And I was one of the things I have been trying to communicate to my, to the audiences that come and listen to me is that, you know, all things prefer, all things concerned. It's, it's better to be an adult.

Like it's better. And people, people do look back and they were a lot better. They romanticized. Like I went to my high school. Just the pussy. And I went back to my high school reunion. Just the pussy. And I went back to my high school reunion. And after like 25 years, it was, it had many of the stereotype features of such events.

And one of them was this nostalgia for, let's say, junior high. And I swore to myself in junior high, I looked around and my friends. And I thought, people keep telling us these are the best years of my life, our lives. And all of my friends and I thought, people keep telling us these are the best years of my life, our lives. And all of my friends are miserable. They're miserable being 13, 14.

They're like completely miserable. I'm never, never going to forget this. I'm not going to fall prey to the delusion that these were the grandest years of our lives. And I don't think they are. I think they were terrible. Yeah, yeah, it attacked me. And you were, I mean, you were so, you were so horny. I mean, I was like beyond horny from, I would say 11 to 16 without any relief of

that except myself. So you're at the horneist and, you know, you're, at least desirable. Well, at least terrible, hell of a combination. Right. Exactly. Let's say you did it again, God. Genius. Yeah. No, I was a, and shy. So why did you? Super shy. Why do things improve for you when you became an adult?

What, what happened that was different? Well, I don't want to get cosmic on you. I just was always meant to be this way. I was always meant to play this part. Like, are you aware of the show, Camelot? Yes. Okay, it was one of my parents' favorites when I was a little kid. It was playing in the house, the show recording of it. And it's about a king. They remade it. They made it. A movie with Sean Connery, as the, when he was older, as the king, king's older. I guess it's king, aren't there? And certainly on Broadway, it was Robert Goulet. Canadian Robert Goulet. We have all the heartthrobs, man. I was going to say, I will forgive you if you want to,

like, sing praises to Robert Goulet because he is a hometown here. Oh, come on. He was awesome. I know him. Awesome, dude. Okay. Great Canadian. Forgot the words of the National Anthem once. We don't know the words to the National Anthem. We keep changing them for politically correct reasons.

You should hear a group of Canadians get up and try to sing the National Anthem. It is really quite comical. They mumble through at least two thirds of it. Is it sons or daughters or them or they? We have no idea. Ha! Ha! Playing your greatest hits.

OK, so Robert Goulet, this is what made him a star on Broadway in 1960. He played Sir Lancelot. And it's a love triangle, Guenevere. She's married to the king, who's an awesome king. He's a great king. He's a like you just mocked her anything. And he's still very hot. Sean Connery even at 60. Okay. So, but Chikris falls for the handsome young Lancelot Robert Goulet when that's when he sings. If ever I would leave you, it wouldn't be in summer. Okay, so I hope you don't have to pay royalties for that.

So like I was never meant to be Lancelot. I'm not the boyfriend. I wasn't good at that. I'm the king. Okay. You know, it's great you can have your boy for your Lancelot, but it was just never the role that I was meant to play. So I just got more comfortable the older I got to this day,

you know, and of course at some point that will end because you know, we are pushing, you know, the age where, I guess that is around the corner, but, you know, until they stop me, I'll continue to live young to, you know, until they stop me, I'll continue to live young, to, you know, to answer your question, what keeps me going? I think a lot of it is that. I like the fact that I didn't have kids, because then I didn't like pass on, I didn't trade my life for someone else's life, which is what you sort of have to do when you have kids.

It's noble, and it's, I get the sacrifice, but like I'm maybe- What has sustained you? I mean, you talked about your parents, and you're grateful to that relationship. Yeah, well, so- My sister is still in the world and we're close, and we talk on the phone and stuff. That's nice.

Friends? The best. Yeah, okay. And the greatest thing about being this age is that, you know, friend, you're something you collect over a lifetime, and I don't mean that in a cynical way. being this age is that, you know, Fred, just something you collect over a lifetime, and I don't mean that in a cynical way. It's a good thing, you know? I remember like at Cornell having no friends, no friends.

Zero. How would you renew into Cornell? Like everybody ate to me. Yeah, okay. And when was that? 74. Okay, okay. Okay.

So, like, forget girlfriends. No girl, girls forget that was not gonna happen at Cornell, but Not even friends. I mean that's lonely. Yeah, go from that to like when you're this agent you have friends who like I have three friends from childhood You know a couple from college and then friends friends from early stand up who are still my friends, friends from when I was like an actor in the 80s, you know, a couple of people like that. And then from the people on politically incorrect, and then real time over the last 30 years, friendships that just happened organically. I mean, I never push it on anybody. But a lot of those are long term friendships.

Long term. So why do you think you don't have to ask this? It's wonderful to have somebody wonderful friends. Why do you think you were so successful in terms of maintaining long term friendships, but not successful in terms of maintaining long term relationships? Because I don't see it as a success. You're right, say the way I know, but the friends as a just the way the question is phrased, you're not successful at keeping long-term relationships. Yeah, I threw the game, okay doc? I didn't want to be successful.

I took a dive in the third round. Yeah. But it's curious to me that you, but that isn't the case on the friendship front. But it's so different. Friendships, you don't get tired of the sex. I still love hanging out with Jim Ballerley, and we never, ever expect sex, ever, not once in 45 years. And it's,

so there's just not that dimension to it that is always hanging over the head, like the sort of damacles over relationships. The clock's always ticking on them for when the passion runs out. And that's the dilemma everybody finds themselves and everybody finds themselves in it. It's just how people handle it. Some people cheat, some people leave, some people don't care. Some people just suck it up.

You know, everybody has their way of dealing with it, but it's gonna happen. No one, I mean, no one who's in a long-term relationship is gonna say, oh yeah, 20 years on, and we still like attack each other when we walk in the door. It's just, come on. That's true, in my case. You still attack each other?

Yeah. Okay. I know it makes a nothing. We just played stump the band. Yeah, sorry, man. You got me. Sorry, man. You got me. You win.

Yeah. Dinner at Peppies. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Wow. That's very impressive. That's really, it's really, it's, well, you know, better man than I.

Let me tell you the story. Because it, it, so both my wife and I were very sick for a couple of years. Right. And she just about died every day for about eight months. It was really not good. And she handled it with amazing grace, by the way. And at the same time, I was very ill and we were actually separated, like for about two years, because I was in hospitals here and there.

Sure. And so I was there with her for the bulk of her illness. And then when she recovered very suddenly and somewhat miraculously, on our 30th wedding anniversary day, by the way, which she told me she was going to do like three months previously, which was like, I have no idea what to make of any of that. I got very ill after that. And so we were apart more or less for about two years. And we grew apart quite a lot. And when we got back together, when I moved back into the house, it wasn't, we didn't really know what to do with each other

because it had been so long. And she had kind of gone her way. And I was still very ill. But we had made a habit of dating two or three times a week. Like we really set aside time to do that. Each of them? Yes, each other. Yes, an important point, Bill.

Yeah, yeah. And so we had practiced that continually. Wow. And we really set aside time to do that. And so when we got back together and we didn't really know what to do, we thought, well, we had this dating routine, like maybe we can start that up again. And I tell you, man, that brought us back together right away. And it was better than it was before. And that has continued. And when you say dating,

yeah, describe a date, like it sounds like it, like something where it's planned. And you know, you're, you're at your best and you're all that's what you got to do. Well, okay, I can tell you what, so we have this third. You got to dinner. We generally don't because I can't go out and public that much because look at you. Well, you know, so fucking hey, cannot go out and public. I love it. Well, not be private, right? So you, I'm sure you know. I can do something that involves hockey. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If I wear a mask, if I wear a golly mask, I'll do problems at once.

And, oh, yeah. Yeah. We have this third floor on our house. We built, we built a log cabin, essentially, on the third floor of our house in Toronto. It's this little narrow house. Yes, we had this weird idea that we would build a long cabin on the roof of our house, which we eventually did. Although... Yes, we tore off the roof and we put a third floor on that's basically a long cabin. Except we had an Indian guy, Native American, Native Canadian actually come and help us design it. And it's full of totem poles and beautiful native art yet to crazy place it's all wood there's a great acoustics it's a small it's it's not much bigger than this place but same size as the place that we're in right now and do you let Elizabeth Warren stay there for free I would if she I would if she asked

you know it's only polite so and it has great acoustics it has a great sound system we go up there and dance and it has great acoustics. It has a great sound system. We go up there and dance, and it's beautiful. I have like dance. Yeah, we go up there and dance, and we have these, like, I have laser light show up there, which is real fun, and- You know how many women just came right now?

The idea that this, like, like, air you die, good-looking guy, you got the George Hamilton tan. I don't know how a fucking Canadian gets a tan like that. Oh, I guess you're here in California. Hey, man, instant tan. Wow. Like to know that there's a guy in the world who is like that with somebody's been with for 30 years,

that is the ultimate pussy boner for women. I mean, seriously, that wetten's panties from here to go all alone for, I'm telling you. Well, so that's a good move. So, so there's a there's a place in L.A. called trashy.com trashy.com. Trashy lingerie. Yeah, yeah, that's it. Okay, so about I had a membership card in 1988.

Okay, so you know the place well. So, so about 20 years ago, something like that. I bought like a hundred pieces of laundry for 100. Yeah, a whole bunch like a boatload. Yeah, what a baller. Yeah, yeah, it was and then and then she wore them and that took care of the novelty problem by the way. The novelty. Oh, really? It helped a lot. Well, I mean, it's the same. And was a form of play, you know? Oh, of course. I mean, let me tell you, your low maintenance, because I mean, the idea that just different lingerie could, because it's still the same person in there. I mean, that's my problem. But, you know, if you know that people can be very complicated, right? And

they can show you different sides of themselves, you know, if you can play well, sides of themselves. You know, if you can play well, yeah, yeah, well fair enough, but she played long, you know, and that made me difference. Look, I envy you. That is just, that is a rare, but you do realize I rarely. I'll tell you something. Among men, right? So I've known my wife since she was eight. So we've known each other for 52 years. And we were childhood friends. And I really liked her when we were kids. Like I was probably in love with her. Before your age in pubic?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. She lived across the street. She was one of my friends. And we kind of separated, because I was young, I was a young kid in my class because I skipped a grade. And so she, you know, she physically matured like two years before me. And then she was gone for like four years, essentially.

But we were very close friends when we were kids and there was romantic attraction there at that age. And now when I see her, I swear this is true. When I see her, I can see her at every single age of her life at the same time. It's really magical. Okay, they all just came again. I was rehearsing all of this before the show. No, I mean, if you if you weren't sincere about it, they wouldn't come, but they're coming. I mean, because you are obviously sincere, you can't make this shit up. No, you cannot make. No, it's also hard to read. Tom Hanks can make this shit up. No, but he's like the other guy who, you know, when he there was a run of movies there he did and I guess it was kind

of in Boge at the time and like the best thing you could be was the widower. Because it showed that you can commit your single, you're a total committer, but you're also single, but it's not your fault. Right, right, right. It's the one way you could be both the guy who commits crazy commits and they're sorry for you because the wife. And now, you know, so that was always, and I know a guy, a friend of mine in real life, who is that? I mean, he sadly and unfortunately lost his wife at,

I don't know, 35 or 40 or something. And yeah, I mean, it's way better than saying I'm divorced. Well, you said you, you said, I don't want to put words in your mouth. But from what I understood, what, from what you told me was that the, the integration of sex into a relationship was what, what fragmented your intimate relationships. It was hard to manage that. You have these long term friendships, but the sexual element was something that didn't

integrate well. Let's not talk about it like I'm some weird science project. Yes, I was experiencing what 98% of the world goes through, which is they get fucking board of each other because no matter how interesting a person is, if you live with them every fucking day, no one is that interesting. You're not, I'm not. We're good now because we're like getting drunk, forcing it all together.

But like, it can't always be that way. It's very difficult. It's very difficult to me to well, I'm sorry to tell you something else that happened. This was interesting. I was out on tour with my wife. We've toured a lot. I've been in, we've been in like 500 cities in three years. It's four years, something like that.

It's crazy. We're on the road all the time. One time last March, when we were touring, Tammy had had enough. She, she, for a variety of reasons. I wasn't feeling very well again. And she, she, she just had enough of touring. So she went home for a while. And she liked to be on tour. And so she went home and she sat down and she thought like, well, what the hell do I have to do to want to continue being on tour? And a little voice came to her and said, you have to get your own room. And so she was worried about that because she thought she thought she, she went and talked to

her friend of hers and she said, well, you know, I was trying to think about what I needed if I was going to be on the road. And I think I need my own room. And her friend said, get your own damn room. And she Tammy said, well, I'm kind of worried about bringing this up with my husband because I don't know what he's going to think. And so she came and told me this. And she said, I, I'm kind of worried about bringing this up with my husband because I don't know what he's going to think. So she came and told me this. And she said, I went home and I thought about what I need to go into her. I need my own room. And I thought, well, what the hell are you trying to tell me here, exactly? Right, right.

But then I thought, because I trusted her, right? And she's an honest person. We swore when we got married that we would lie to each other. And she really took that even more serious than me. And I took it seriously. So she doesn't lie to each other. And she really took that even more serious than me. And I took it seriously, so she doesn't lie to me. And so if she tells me that she thought through something in a particular way, I can believe it, thank God.

Hey, it's not a rejection. It's a smart move. Well, that's how I read that quite quickly. How can, look, 10% of life is completely disgusting. Everything that happens in the bathroom, including brushing your teeth. Like, I don't want to watch someone brush their teeth, and that's hardly the grossest thing that happens in the bathroom.

I just think it's gross. These things need to happen alone. Well, we also realized, it's like, if you live in a house with someone, you don't live in the same room, and we're not on the road. We live on the road. I know, but you kind of do.

And you certainly sleep together, right? That's, you're in the same room about, you know, probably at least 40%. Right. That's a lot of time. It is a lot of time. With another human being. It just is.

We don't know exactly how much time you have to spend together in a part to maintain that novelty. Like and it's a real complicated thing. Well, well, wait, I finally got an answer to one doc. No. Well, you said, you know, you said quite straightforwardly that there's that there's a privacy boundary that you want to maintain. Right, right. It, I mean, but that's not unreasonable. Again, I'm not the only one who's told these kind of stories, but I've heard it many times.

Like, a woman will say, you know, I was totally into this guy and then we decided to kind of like get closer and, you know, one night he just burped in front of me. And I was like, oh, you know, we're not burping now, are we? Yeah. And he goes, oh, I'm feeling gassy. I was like, okay, you know, like there is a moment when it just the part that makes it tingly gets killed. I remember somebody else's friend of mine's wife told me, you know, we were talking about, I don't know why, but she was telling me about like marriage and I said, she was being very pessimistic about it.

And I said, when did it all go south like that? And she said, the first time I had to wash is underwear. We don't have to get graphic about it, but I know exactly what that means. And it's like, you can't unsee that. And you can't, like, maybe you're made a sternor stuff. I think you are, definitely. But some of us just, like, we can't manage those two things. There's a singer, I think it's Megan Trainor,

who has a love toilet seat with her husband, like they shit next to each other. To me, this is like the opposite end of the spectrum I'm on. Like if that's maybe I'm anal ironically because they're actually shitting together, but yes, I guess that makes me anal and that's whatever that is, which I think is nuts. But I think that has a lot to do.

I mean, was it Freud or Ericsson, one of those dudes who said like, everything is, in our personality packed in in the first couple of years. So that kind of thing with me probably dictated a lot about this, right? I don't wanna wake up with somebody necessarily. I can and it's gonna be great, but like, I don't need that. But I do need like my own bathroom.

Well, one of the things that has happened since so we we talked this through and I said look if you if you think you need your own room and that's going to make the tours work better like partly because our schedules weren't aligned exactly I would be up later at night for hours and how can they be just the temperature I remember having a girlfriend we used to fight we'd have we have thermometer wars. Like I'd wake up and because she wanted it hot and I wanted it cold, sleeping. I'd wake up, it would be 80. She'd, and then I'd move it to 62 because like, okay, we got it. I know you're going to fuck with this at some point. So what sort of way for what wouldn't it be just easier to get separate rooms? So

you did, I'm hoping get separate rooms in a wall. Absolutely. And it worked, right? It worked amazingly well. I think it was partly, too, because she got away from me enough to miss me. And you know, yeah, yeah, well, that problem with that continual, continual, take it for granted intimacy means that there's no deprivation, right? And you have to be deprived of someone to some degree

before you get interested in them. And so you can get satiated with... You know what the number one mistake I'm getting this from women that young guys make with girls is like, they meet, okay, the girl likes it. Okay, he's cuties, and he's like a psycho, give their number. And then instead of just like being cool about it

and like hitting them up the next day, hey, great to meet you. Let's talk soon. They like bombard them. And the girl is like, could you give me just a minute to try to miss you? Right. Before we start, you know.

Yeah, yeah. And it's like, they just tip their hand of their insecurity and their desperation. Well,, yeah. And it's like they, they just tip their hand of their insecurity and their desperation. Well, I don't think it, it's probably even more important to give women space to miss you because women prefer sex at less frequency than men. And so if you don't give your woman space more space than you might even want to give her, given your difference, likely difference in sexual temperament, then she isn't going to get a chance to miss you.

I mean, that's not always true. No, it's not, no, it's not always true. It's not always true. But it's, but it's, it's reliably true. But it's great that after you went through, everything you went through health-wise, that the old skin bus still can drive into Tonya town. Yes. Yeah. Well, you know, you have to, you want to know what you should be pleased about in life. Right. Right. That's the thing about, that's one of the things about getting older. It's like, well, what are you pleased about? Well, things still work. It's like, it's a lower threshold. It's a, well, that's for Anne Leibowitz has the great observation that she says, you know, when people go, you look great.

She said, yeah, remember, nobody really says that to you when you're young. Right. You don't even say that when it's a surprise. You look great. You're just, you're de-crap and you look way better than you should. That's really the chiroit underneath your head. Definitely. Yeah, definitely. You know, for your age or.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But you do. For your vast state of basic repulsiveness. So glad. Look nearly as awful as you can. So glad you're killing it. I could talk to you all night, but I'm not going to take advantage. So anytime I can do anything for you, I'm your biggest fan, and I don't care who knows it.

And I hope we see each other on the phone. You can come to this conference that I'm hosting in London in October. Okay, that's not going to happen. No? No, I don't travel overseas anymore. Oh, how come? You know, I'm just not a great traveler. Never was.

I'm a nervous traveler. The last few times I went to Europe, I never got over the jet lag. Never slept, right? Like, never slept more than four hours. And so that affects like, this is so much information. Yeah, that's not fun.

This is so much information. This is so much information. Just, it just, it just, some people travel easily and well and I increasingly as I get older especially I think you know I backpacked across Europe with zero money when I was 21 So you know, but you get it's different and I'm just a you know I mean a lot of traveling is just oh my gosh Wondrous and delightful and some of it is trying to cut open an orange at two in the morning with a can opener because there's no knife in the room. And it's, you know, it's just, uh, it's, when I get

home, it's like, such a relief from a trip. So you said though that you were doing some touring or some appearances in America. Yeah. And, you know, I'm, I'm quick. I do weekends, you know, I do Friday Saturday and I come home after the second show Saturday, so I'm not gone that long. And are these basically stand-up comedies? Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, that's fun. Very stand-up and very calm.

When I'm on the road with Tammy, one of the things we often do is go to stand-up comedy shows. But someday we should do this live. Yeah, that'd be fun. That would be fun and get a good crowd. Yeah, that'd be fun. That would be fun, and get a good crowd. Yeah, that'd be fun. We should do that at the spear, Las Vegas. Right, just fair. I just feel it.

I just feel it. I just feel it. I just feel it. I just feel it. I just feel it. I just feel it. I just feel it. I just feel it.

I just feel it. I just feel it. I just feel it. I just feel it. I just feel it. I just feel it. I just feel it. I just feel it. I just feel it as I'm sure it was, perhaps, and at different errors in our history, but it still exists, and it's large enough to guide you this nice.

Yeah, that's it. That's it.