Club Random with Bill Maher - Lisa Kudrow | Club Random Classics with Bill Maher

Episode Date: March 19, 2026

In this Classic Episode of Club Random, Bill Maher and Lisa Kudrow riff on bad behavior on sitcom sets, the stupidest thing Bill ever did in show business, Bill’s favorite show of Lisa’s (it’s not Friends), how The Andy Griffith Show made Bill join PETA. They also discuss Lisa’s most awkward audition ever, and whether or not you have be insane to be a great actor. This episode first aired July 10, 2022 Support our Advertisers: High blood pressure can’t wait. Get 20% off at https://www.120life.com and use code RANDOM Subscribe to the Club Random YouTube channel: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/c/clubrandompodcast?sub_confirmation=1⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Watch episodes ad-free – subscribe to Bill Maher’s Substack: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://billmaher.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you listen: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/ClubRandom⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Buy Club Random Merch: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://clubrandom.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices ABOUT CLUB RANDOM Bill Maher rewrites the rules of podcasting the way he did in television in this series of one on one, hour long conversations with a wide variety of unexpected guests in the undisclosed location called Club Random. There’s a whole big world out there that isn’t about politics and Bill and his guests—from Bill Burr and Jerry Seinfeld to Jordan Peterson, Quentin Tarantino and Neil DeGrasse Tyson—talk about all of it.  For advertising opportunities please email: [e-mail] ABOUT BILL MAHER Bill Maher was the host of “Politically Incorrect” (Comedy Central, ABC) from 1993-2002, and for the last fourteen years on HBO’s “Real Time,” Maher’s combination of unflinching honesty and big laughs have garnered him 40 Emmy nominations. Maher won his first Emmy in 2014 as executive producer for the HBO series, “VICE.” In October of 2008, this same combination was on display in Maher’s uproarious and unprecedented swipe at organized religion, “Religulous.” Maher has written five bestsellers: “True Story,” “Does Anybody Have a Problem with That? Politically Incorrect’s Greatest Hits,” “When You Ride Alone, You Ride with Bin Laden,” “New Rules: Polite Musings from a Timid Observer,” and most recently, “The New New Rules: A Funny Look at How Everybody But Me Has Their Head Up Their Ass.” FOLLOW CLUB RANDOM https://www.clubrandom.com https://www.facebook.com/Club-Random-101776489118185 https://twitter.com/clubrandom_ https://www.instagram.com/clubrandompodcast https://www.tiktok.com/@clubrandompodcast FOLLOW BILL MAHER https://www.billmaher.com https://twitter.com/billmaher https://www.instagram.com/billmaher Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

At Desjardin, we speak business. We speak equipment modernization. We're fluent in data digitization and expansion into foreign markets. And we can talk all day about streamlining manufacturing processes. Because at Desjardin business, we speak the same language you do. Business. So join the more than 400,000 Canadian entrepreneurs who already count on us. And contact Desjardin today.

We'd love to talk. Business. In our next episode at Club Random Classics, we visit my conversation with the one and only Lisa Kudrow. You know, we're from friends, but you haven't heard the audition story so awkward it almost ended her career. We dig into sitcom madness, jaw-dropping backstage stories, and a surprisingly deep chat about acting. I even confess which Lisa series I secretly love, and it isn't what you think. Oh, wait, we're not supposed to hug because of the mics. Can you still hear it?

The Omicron. I said, oh, no, I don't hug because of Omicron. And then I forgot. I'm full of monkey pox. No, that's the old Dean Martin show where he didn't know who the guest was. Do you remember that? No. You don't remember the Dean Martin show? No. Really? You're too young for that? Oh. Well, I might be a little.

Unless my parents watched it. I don't think they did. I bet you your mother did. My mother had such a pussy boner for Dean Martin in that show. He was a very attractive guy. Yeah. And of course, that character he played, sort of a character who was like drunk, he really wasn't drunk. But he did really only. Oh, he really wasn't ever. No. Really?

But he really did only show up for the tape it. So they were, he had these three broad called the Gold Diggers, something you would never. Wait, no, that sounds familiar. Yes. And they would lead him, literally lead him and prop him up in front of the card, which he would read and fuck up, which made it funnier. Right, right, right. You know, and there was one section of the show where he didn't, he walked, it was at the piano with his piano guy tinkling, and it was like, and the door would open, tell if it's Gerald B. Orr's, Sammy Davis.

He had no idea. I really think that was true. I did know, I mean, I've been asking from the beginning, I said, if I could get you here, what hipper person for this little hippo place? What? I'm your biggest. Really? Why? Why would you think I wouldn't want you... I mean, I would never want anyone here, first of all,

in my house, who I didn't adore. Oh, my God, I'm so happy to hear that. Well, why did you come? I feel like I'm just a big disappointment. Well, disappointment. No, because I'm in awe of you. Oh, I adore you. See, that's what...

But I don't assume it's a two-way street. Of course. I live in the real world. Oh, no, this is my home. This is, I mean, I don't know. This is only for fun. Yeah. This whole thing.

I mean, I did say... Yeah, are you liking it? Oh, my God. I mean, look, I'm not going to lie. I spent quite a bit of money so that we could, you know, set this place. I mean, it's almost like a reality show combined with a podcast, but that's the way I wanted it so that we could have, you know, I mean, there's a lot of podcasts and I find them... Some are great, but there's a big penis mic in your face. I haven't done that one.

Well, you know what I mean? There's a giant... I've done the one with the big flower in your face. What's that? Vagina. Yeah, I've seen those too. I went too far. I went too out of obvious.

I wanted just to be like the way I really am, except there's no music. That always, you know, of course we can't while we're talking. But it just feels like there is something missing and everything else feels right. It's just us. There's nobody else in the room. There's liquor and these clothes. I don't know what they're putting in these things. But let me tell you, these are...

It's too bad. You're not allowed to know. I know. That's the surprise. Well, Clubs. Do you know, I know you're a history buff. Do you know anything about the history of cloves? No. Well, make it up. Me? Make it up?

Yeah. Oh, okay. Well, tobacco was for export, so they couldn't afford to let regular folks smoke it. Isn't that interesting? But that sounded possible, right? So incredibly real. Like if I had not set it up, like make it up, I would have just gone with it. I could make up anything.

Yeah. Many of us could, you know. When the kids feel bad about not knowing shit, I always try to comfort them by saying, you know, we all don't know. I mean, when you think of the infinite amount of things that you could possibly know in this world, even this morning's person does not even know 0.1%. Right. Yeah. We're almost fully ignorant of everything, but we, you know, obviously some people more than others.

No, and then the things you learn you don't remember. So that's too bad. That's too bad. That part's really too bad. I think that has something to do with the clothes. I don't know. I can't make a direct correlation, but... Well, you know, now they're doing studies with clothes and cognition.

Can I make you like... a drink or? No, I have water. That's all you want? Yeah. You're a... I know it's 5 o'clock. You're...

So it's okay. It's 5 o'clock somewhere. Oh, wait, here. Are you abstemious? Yeah, I don't drink a lot. I mean, you said abstemious, so I thought, okay. Obstamious, do I? I think I must pronounce it.

Obstanius, you said? Abstamious, isn't that mean you, yeah, you're... Are you? No. With drinking, the only time I drink really is here. Oh, really? Yes. I used to drink, you know, like an Irishman.

I was never a drunk, although I certainly have been drunk many times, but I drank Irishly, you know, which is not good for your liver, I'm sure. And, you know, I don't want to be, look like Ted Kennedy. You know, so I, you know, especially now that he's dead, but even before, you know, that kind of like... No, it takes a toll. Especially if you're Irish. Really? Well, sure, because you're lighter. Yeah.

You know, it's like the opposite of black don't crack. But European. Cracks the most. European. All Europeans are pretty white. But more so, the Irish. Well, like the beautiful. Beautiful people of the Nordic countries somehow are even further north, but they have that beautiful olive skin, usually.

They do? Yes. Olive? Yes. Wait, why doesn't that sound even a little bit right to me? You mean the, like, blondes, the Scandinavian people? Yes, Scandinavian, of course. They don't look like the Gaelic people, my people.

They're not ruddy. Wait a minute. What's red? What's ruddy? What's ruddy? What's ruddy? What's red? Yeah.

What's what I thought? Well, that's, think of somebody like, you know. Ted Kennedy, yeah. Right. I'll throw a name out. But not Jack Kennedy. But not Jack Kennedy. He looked more.

Well, he had makeup. Always? He was just a good-looking guy. Yeah. It's funny how in families sometimes there's just, you know, siblings and one of them is the good-looking one. Yeah. You know, Bobby. Well, he was good-looking.

Not like Jack. He was a little... Was he that good looking, though? He was just, he was sexier because he was grittier. I guess. Not my type. I think that's not your type. No.

A Jack Kennedy? No. But a Bobby Kennedy. It was a little cuter to me. Physically cuter? Yeah. See, most people would say not that. They would say the reverse.

Right. And I even think that you're, you know, as a woman who are deeper and feel things on a deeper level. Well, it's true, especially in this subject. It's like the physical part is not as important to you. I think something about Bobby Kennedy is getting to you in your deep woman way. Maybe. But here, I misled. I was just comparing.

But none of the Kennedys are my type. None of the Kennedys? No, no. Because of their look or because of their actions? Their teeth. Their teeth? No. Yeah.

What? Yeah. What's wrong with their teeth? I don't know. That's the British. you up the bad teeth. No, it's not that they had bad teeth, but I didn't like their teeth. I just didn't like it.

I don't, uh-uh, no. Mm-mm. They all looked like- And did this in, inflect, I mean, infect your view of their politics? No. Well, I was, well, I was. You wouldn't not vote for someone's good at their teeth, Lisa Kudrow, would you? Well, I don't like Bill Clinton's teeth.

No, but I, um. No, but I was born when John Kennedy was killed. 63? Yeah. And so then, yeah. And I was five when Bobby Kennedy was killed. So, no, no. I mean, I didn't have politics about them.

But my parents were huge fans. So are mine. Yeah. But this brings my father, again, Irish, Catholic. And, you know, I mean. And my father, my grandfather, had a full brogue. Really? Yes.

Oh, he was from? No, but he was, I guess, second generation. Oh, raised with everybody, yeah. But this is, I mean, a man I never met, but it's funny if I had done your show instead of Skip Gates' show. Yeah. We would have already. Did I will see it? Did I watch all of the shows?

I guess I don't remember them. When did you do it? I would say four years ago. Oh, shoot. Something like that? I'll rewatch it. Look, I sound like, I'll rewatch it. I mean, but your show was fantastic.

I mean, it's a great idea for a show. And the way you make it into it. I wish it weren't my idea. As a history major, I appreciate it. Oh, you're a history major. I was in college. Yeah. You know.

That's a lot more history than anyone learns in high school, right? I love history, and I love when you weave it in. Yeah. No, because that's why I loved this show, because it's history, but it's the personal stories that drive it home. It's the actual effects of history. Like, why can't they teach it? But when I did his show, my genealogy for Skip, I mean, the star of it was my grandfather, who, again, I never met, but he was a baller. He was a macho guy.

He ran the Boatsman's Union in New Jersey. is he in New York, you know, the circle daylight of the stuff that went around Manhattan. And this is in the days when the Irish ran New York. Right. Every cop, every fireman, you know, Officer Mike, yeah. And this isn't part of the Teamsters because that's, it's a bus. No, no, that's truck. It's notical.

Yes, it's nautical. Okay. And it was also what happened, I guess, on the ports, because he had a headline from 1920, and it was my grandfather called a strike and was brought up to the White House, because it had to be settled, because it was the port of New York. Oh, yeah. But he was a union captain who got in the days when, I mean, what unions had to fight for back then was like, you know,

we would like a 14-hour workday and we're not. And you could only whip them if that, you know, it was just crazy what he had to fight for. And you don't get to choose who we marry. Yeah. Yeah, crazy shit. Yeah. So that was my grandfather.

William Moore also. I would have been William Mar the third if I had been confirmed in the Catholic Church because I would have been William Aloysius Marr. That was my grandfather's name and my father's name

and I was supposed to be William Aloysius Mar but you get your middle name of your confirmation to Catholics and I never made it that far. I didn't know that. But you're still that's not your given name like the birth certificate?

I have no middle name because you're supposed to You're supposed to get it at 13 when you're confirmed. It's a big thing in the Catholic Church. At 7, you have your first communion. That traumatized me like I can't even tell you. And then 13, you're confirmed. I don't know what.

It's so just like the bar mitzvah. Why did it traumatize you? What? You know, nuns, fucking sadists. Oh, they were? Well, of course. Some of them are nice, I assume. On trouble with angels, they were really nice.

But I mean. Well, nuns are married to Christ, and apparently he's not putting out. Okay. Because they have a kind of anger issues that you only get when you've never been late. I don't know what it was, and I was seven years old. All I know is one of them one day, for example, this one sticks in my mind, said, you know, we're in the church and they're doing their shit up there, and I guess I was like, you know. And she said, the boy who's slumping is going to go to hell.

Oh, wow. They did shit like that. Wait a minute. Okay, but I thought your mom, your mom is Jewish. Right. That I never even knew until I was 13 because I was so traumatized by going to church. I didn't even think, why doesn't mom come? I don't know.

She just never does. It never crossed my mind to ask. I just wanted to get out of it. But I thought it was tricky for a Catholic to marry a Jew. It was. So how did that all happen? Especially in 1951 when they did. It was like an interracial marriage, not even.

today, like 20 years ago. Yeah. Well, it was in the 60s, too, and even into the 70s, it was sort of starting to get like, wow. Did you watch Mad Men? Yeah. Remember the first season or second, there was a plot line of, he goes out with the girl from

the Jewish department store. Yeah, yeah. I mean, they had their own, Jews had their own department store. Or owned a very successful department store. Right, but I mean, like, I think gimbles, The real Gimbles was that. I think in a day when, what, what, what, I'm just saying how fucking. Yes, well, just the idea that this was the early 60s and Gentiles and Jews shopped separately in departments.

Wait, I wasn't aware of that. I wasn't aware of that. Are you sure? History major? I'm not sure that a Jew couldn't walk into. Macy's. Did. I guess so. And Bloomsdale. Yes. But it seemed to me like he was, like, he was, of course, cheating on his wife, as he always was.

Right. But also he was sort of like crossing into a different world is the way they sort of presented it. Right. And I think people don't realize how much Jew and Gentile, you know, I mean, when Kennedy ran in 60, it was a big deal that he was Catholic. Right. Yeah, yeah. You know? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. This country is always changing as people are always changing in. growing and... And getting used to each other's differences. Progressing. These people who cannot help themselves from looking backward and saying, you know what, you people were so benighted back then.

You know what, if you had lived back then with us, you would have been the same asshole. History is very much like humans. It's like looking at your own life and going, what a dick I was at eight. at eight. Yeah. I can't believe I spent all that time thinking about baseball cards. Dumbass.

You know, it's childish. Yeah. Yeah. Right? Yeah, but what's childish? But what part's childish? The childish part is feeling superior.

Oh, well, yeah. You are roaker now. But it's not you are better. You just are living in a different time. Right. You would have been just, just like us. Yes.

We all wore big hair in the 80s. Yeah. Right? Yeah. I don't know if my hair was that big, but, because, you know, I wasn't that in step. But yeah. No, no, it's true. You're not in step.

You mean you were... With big hair. No, but in step in general, you were an outsider, you're saying? I was a little, yeah, a little moody, you know. I was so, yeah, a little bit. Moody. You know, and doing... 80s. Yeah, starting groundlings and figuring out my comedic voice and, you know, all of that

was the most important thing ever. So that's all I was thinking about it. I really didn't want to look like absolutely everybody else because I didn't think I'd do well if I was trying to. No, but I mean, getting back to what you were saying, though, because I was talking about this, like in the context of who do you think you are, because we're going to be on soon. And I was saying, you know, I think it's really important to know our history and understand how it informed,

how our society worked. And what was tolerated. You know, there were people thought it was perfectly okay to own another human being. You know, that's... But, you know, let's have some context to that. They thought that everywhere in the world. Yeah, but not 30 years after everywhere else in the world stopped doing it in the South.

And in America in the South, they were still doing it. We have brought up the rear on a number of issues. Yeah. That's one of them. 80 countries, I think, have had a woman leader. Oh, mm-hmm. We have not, you know. Universal health care, most of the big boy countries have a much better system, you know.

Yes. Nothing is perfect in that realm. Ah, where are my gloves? Come on, heat. Any day now? Winter is hard, but your groceries don't have to be. This winter, stay warm. Tap the banner to order your groceries online at voila.ca.

Enjoy in-store prices without leaving your home. You'll find the same regular prices online as in-store. Many promotions are available both in-store and online, though some may vary. But, and don't get me started. But remember when medicine wasn't a, wasn't big business? Because that in the 70s, it wasn't. It was still like the healing arts. Well, we, I mean, healthcare is a mess in this country for many reasons,

but the top two probably would be, for me, yes, the corporate element of it. The fact that a hospital is run very much like an airline. They don't want any empty seats on an airplane, and they don't want any empty seats on an airplane. and they don't want any empty beds. That's why when there's a crisis, they're overrun. They should have excess, like, space, but that would hurt the bottom line. So that's huge.

And the other huge thing, I think, is that the people, the people, are just so incredibly unhealthy to begin with. And that is absolutely something I lay at the doorstep of the medical establishment, who doesn't have the balls to tell them what they should and shouldn't do. And, of course, how cozy the pharmaceutical industry is with the medical industry. And, I mean, I'm not saying it's all corruption.

I mean, obviously, COVID was a real thing. And I have many qualms about how we handled it. But, I mean, that's not anybody's fault. But if the population wasn't so fundamentally unhealthy to begin with, we would not have devastated this country the way it did. We had a worse outcome than any other country. Oh, we did? Yes. It turns out that we did proportionally? I think so.

Yeah. I mean, I seem to remember that headline a couple of months ago. I mean, I'm sure there are variations and per capita and blah, blah, blah, blah. But, I mean, it was over a million people. And, of course, that's a fuzzy stat also because they don't really make any differentiation between dying of COVID and dying with COVID. And anyone with medical sophistication understands that everything in medicine is a combination of factors. I'm starting to hear more and more about personalized medicine, like a doctor who's practicing personalized medicine.

What does that mean? So that not just going by looking into what else about your physical makeup and your biology might be contributing to whatever symptoms or what's going on instead of just treating the symptoms. Or calling it this disease. It's not that syndrome because there's other things. informing it. I mean, that's a lot of holistic medicine, what I would call holistic medicine. Right, well, that's now they're calling it personal life, because they don't want to sound right.

Right. They don't want to sound like hippies. Right. That word, that's, right, that's quack stuff. Right, you're not allowed to say that. I mean, some of it is. I'll tell you interesting thing about, and I have had a holistic doctor who I think changed my life as much as anybody and I'm very grateful, he absolutely knows that he absolutely knows

that I don't agree with everything. Yeah. And I also definitely want a MD doctor also. I think you need both to balance. Yeah. Well, you might get more information, too, that you can decide about. But so, like, you know, I started to get into it. This is like almost 20 years ago.

And, you know, everything is super natural, which I totally get that. I remember the first time we went out socially, there was one restaurant in all of Vela he would go to that was pure enough. Wait, who would? This is my holistic doctor. Oh, okay. So, like, and, you know, he just wouldn't have anything, you know, no bread, no, like, down the line. Natural, natural, natural, no antibiotics, of course, no pharmaceuticals, no this, no that, no sugar, nothing.

But then, very big on colonics. Oh. Which may or may not. I remember that trend. I don't think it's a trend, I think. But point being, like, if you're like natural, natural, natural, when you think about sticking water up your ass, the word that comes to mind is not natural.

It's not like if I was just standing around with a garden hose in my hand, I would absentmindedly just stick it up my ass, you know. So for everything to be natural, natural, natural, and also stick water up your ass. No, no, it's not something that naturally occurs. Right. But it also might be very good for you. I don't know if it's really good for you.

Nobody knows anything for sure in medicine. Thank you. Nobody, that's, I'm always trying to push this point. Yes. Just, you know what? I accept where we are. I have to. What could I do else?

We're in the year 2022. Yes. In 2050, they're not going to look back and go, boy, in 2022, we pretty much had it all figured it out medically. You were just crossing the T's and dotting the eyes. They're going to do what they do every single. seven years, which is, yeah, we were wrong about that. That's what I always say.

Just don't give me the attitude of just do what we say. Because when have we ever been wrong? Right. All the time. All the time. And it's not mostly your fault? It's just, again, like the year we live in. No, but just be honest.

Be honest. We don't really know. Right. But what's recommended, and there are some studies that show this might work, their associative studies, not cause and effect, so we can't know absolutely. But here's all I have to offer. Yeah, go for it.

But don't say like they did, no, honey, for your pregnancy, you need to take DES for, you know, you're pregnant and you're nauseous, so you'll just take, you know, D.S. This estrogen, that caused all kinds of reproductive problems in the kids that were born.

Did you take it? No. No, not me. I'm in my mom's generation, your mom's generation. And, you know, I do know a lot of, people who have reproductive problems because of it. But they gave it to all the women back then?

No. No, but they were offering it a lot. Right. Just like in the 20s, they were offering women, offering, insisting, yeah, you need some opium. I mean, we have to give you because you're hysterical. You're going through the change and you're hysterical. Or you just had a baby, so you're hysterical. Right.

And yet all these people, it's the same crisis we're having. And we had it in the 20s. It all happened. And then the government made it illegal. And they went to heroin. You had the exact same problem. We just repeated history. And in 100 years, this will be the 20s that they're talking about.

Right. In the same attitude that we're talking about the 1920s, Right. Things will seem incredibly primitive in their thinking and just very wrong. Yeah. I mean, simple things like they very often misdiagnose fungal infections for bacterial infections. They treat everything with antibiotics. First of all, there's a lot of money in it.

But it's also just where, like, I'm not saying they're trying to be corrupt. It's just like... Right, right. Well, I don't know. You know, some of it is... Someone's trying to make money. Well, yes. But the doctors are just trying to give you the best information they have.

Yes, and also they listen to the patients too much. Ask your doctor. We're only one of two countries that has direct-to-consumer advertising for pharmaceuticals. So you should never be like, hey, Doc, could I get some of that? Sure, the cute rep from the pharmaceutical company was by this afternoon, and she strutted her ass in here and winked at me, I bought a whole parcel of this, and they're taking me on this cruise in a couple of months. You know, that shit goes on with doctors.

I know. And so, and it's very easy just to pass out antibiotics and Vicodin, and especially if you're at one of these low rent, you know, I certainly have heard the stories from people who go to the one on the corner and the, you know, urgent care. And it's like I've heard harrowing stories, just terrible decisions that these people are making because they don't care. They're not really your doctor. Right.

You know. I mean, it's like, I know my mechanic better than, you know. So. Look at me. Uh-huh. I don't. I don't know anyone. You just did like a you right there.

You did that like you were reading a line. That's why you're so good. Thanks. I was going to say disingenuous. No, your line, you know. I've never seen you in anything where you didn't kill it. Thank you. Yeah, you, it's so funny the way you like, you know, you never seem to want to be out front.

You just want to, like, be the one who steals it, and you always do. Oh, I just want to be the one who steals it. That would be funny. That's what I tell me. No, just find me something where I can steal it. Oh. Yeah. And did, I don't know when the last time I saw you, but, because, you know, these clothes.

But, like, if I never told you how big a fan I was of the company, you know, I was of the company, back. Oh, you are? Today would be the time. Really, we never talked about that? I don't think. Well, I don't know. I have secondary clove issues.

And the reboot. Oh, thanks. Thank you. I'm most proud of that. You should be. That was a genius show. And I am not an easy complimenter, and I don't bullshit. That's why I don't have people who I don't like, because I'm not a good liar.

So I can't, like, pretend, you know, that I'm really into, you know, Danny Bonaducci. I'm sorry, Danny, if you're listening. Actually, I'd love to have you on, I course, I have to say that now. I like Danny Bonnet. I do. Of course. God damn it, why can we get him on this show? Well.

But the comeback was, yeah, that was just, I mean, I saw them all multiple times. Really? Yes. Yeah. Thanks. Just everybody was, you know, that the actor, I don't know, was name. I don't think I ever did, who played the heavy set writer-producer who was mean

to you. I've seen... Lance. Yeah, he's on Young Sheldon. He plays the father now. Yeah, he finally people thought, stopped thinking he's really mean. I was just going to say, he was so good. And there was something about that show that was so real, and of course I lived that world of sitcoms too. Uh-huh. You know, but it wasn't that. I mean, it is universal.

But were you on writing staffs, too? No, no. Not on sitcom. No. No. So I know that tension with the writing, especially when you're a comedian, and they kind of hired you for, to be funny,

and they did use a lot of, I was on that show, Sarah. Do you remember that with Gina Davis? Oh, okay. It was 1985, NBC. Not that much before you ran your run. Ten years, yeah. It's about ten years. 94. We started.

Right. But wait, so they would encourage you to pitch lines and alternatives and stuff. Absolutely. And they used them. Yeah. Yeah, sure. I mean, it made their job easier. But they also could be insulted.

I do appreciate that, though, when they do a lot. That means that they really do want the best show. So it doesn't matter where it comes from because I think it's a bigger disaster when their ego. you're right gets in the way of right wherever the great line comes from what do you care but I was 28 and stupid and this is my first job and I didn't sometimes get it like one time I remember we the first run through we always you know the Mondays I remember that whole schedule you know you just the read through right and then the first time they see it on its feet what they wrote their first draft yeah and like I had changed lines and I remember Gary David Goldberg saying to me could we hear ours once Yeah. You know, before you tell me it shit. I was told that, too. Could we hear Arbor?

But they're right. But they're right. It's fair enough. They worked so hard. Exactly. Give them their thing and then pitch your thing. That's amazing. It's easy courtesy.

It's easy. That's why it sucks being young. There's good reasons why it's great. Well, young, you're trying to prove yourself. And you're stupid. And you're stupid. And it was just stupid. And it was just, I got to, no, you got to.

know that I've got good ideas before you, I don't have the opportunity to tell me. You don't know that I do. Yeah, it's stupid. Gary David Goldberg, who got that show canceled because he had a shoving match with Brandon Tartikoff at a taping. Oh. So he could be volatile, and I could have set him off. And he was always nice to me.

He never, like, for whatever reason, sometimes you're so young and dumb that they know that they can't really hold it against you. It's like blaming the dog, you know. Yeah, or they don't care. Which is worse. He cared. But, yeah, that show got canceled when there was this shoving match. Can you believe that between, he was at the time, one of the most powerful producers in television.

But was it a good show? Sarah? You know, it was what a sitcom in the 80s was. I think it was a little above average. It did pretty well in the ratings. Oh, wow. So that is what you got it was. You know, Gina was coming off a couple of movies.

She was a very rising. Yeah. Alphrey Woodard. Oh, my God. And Brunson Pinchot were the other three. We were four lawyers in San Francisco. They felt after half the episodes, we needed a boss. Oh.

So then they brought in a boss figure. You know how they thought the networks, those kind of notes. Yeah, they made friends get an adult. I was really good action. We're just children. And they have to, like, discipline. We need someone. Hire someone to play the part of someone who keeps us in order.

Right. So God bless Martin and David. Like, all right. We'll try. But, yeah. Yeah, and there was a neighbor with a kid so they could get a kid in the show. But that was sort of shoehorned. Because kids always make shows fly.

You had to. Well, I guess they did because for the longest time, didn't every show after having a kid. I remember... Yeah, but you have to have great kids. I mean, Roseanne had great kids. Sarah Gilbert was so great. Yeah. They were great. Those kids. They were really, truly funny. I remember after I did that sitcom, and then I did one on Showtime called Hard Knocks. Oh, that sounds familiar. And then I did one with Sam Kinnison in 1990, and then... Really? Yeah, was very short-lived, and he was on...

heroin so it didn't really work. Shoot. But... Should have been called shoot. But... I'd have been called shoot. I'd have done a few of these sitcoms. God rest is all that sound like.

But I remember there was also a period there like, 89, 90, 90, when I was like, I'd done a few of these sitcoms, so I was like pitching. I was at that point where you pitch your own sometimes. sometimes. And, you know, they would get the notes. And I did, had a deal with Fox. I remember I went to the something they had, like where they were showing the advertisers, their new shows or some shit. Yeah, the upfront. Yeah, but it wasn't, must have been like, some of them weren't picked up yet. Okay. This was one of the, would you buy ads for this? Right.

Was one of those? And apparently they were like, no, we would not. We would not sell toothpaste. It was Bill gets a life. And really, I couldn't make that up. And, yeah, they were like, there was that, you need a kid discussion. For you? Yes. For Bill Gets a Life, Bill Maher needs a kid in the show.

It was just like, we work for the network. They're paying us. We have to pretend we know something and are doing something. Wait, did you write it too? Yeah. Did you write the pilot? I worked, it was Gary Shandling had a production deal. Yeah.

And we had the same manager. And so, like, it was, we worked on it together, the pilot. Okay. And then, I mean, I wrote a bunch of other episodes just hoping they would pick it up, but they didn't. But, of course, it was never my calling as it was yours to act. Yeah. Well. Well. When WestJet first took flight in 1996, the vibes were a bit different.

People thought denim on denim was peak fashion, inline skates were everywhere, and two out of three women rocked, the Rachel. While those things stayed in the 90s, one thing that hasn't is that fuzzy feeling you get when WestJet welcomes you on board. Here's to WestJetting since 96. Travel back in time with us and actually travel with us at westjet.com slash 30 years. One plus one equals more of the greatest stories. Hulu on Disney Plus

Stories about Our survivors Watch this girl The most dangerous planet Family Retribution Murder Prophecy

Beer and propane Bali Blake Pantha The Fri The ultimate soldier The Chicago All right The best of the best

stories now With even more from Hulu Amazing Have it all with Do you on Disney Plus Do you know Gary Shant I was so

In awe of Gary Shandling Of course and I was brought in to audition for Larry Sanders before it was on. Oh, really? And I was so excited. Janine Garoflo's role. Ah.

Yeah, I don't remember the character's name. Wow. And, you know, I came in and I was just sort of being me. And I wish I could remember exactly. I think this was it. He said, Gary said, so we're going to read this together. And he was being funny, which was funny.

And I just said, oh, okay. So I'm not reading it alone. All right. And he just went. Oh. Yeah. Okay. And we read it.

And then, you know, I wasn't chit-chatty because I knew for auditions. You're not there to make friends. Right. You know, he's going to do that. I'll just respond with a joke. Same, you know, but maybe a little too dry, you know. And then, and I went, and I left. And I'm walking down, it's a very long haul, and I hear the door open, and he's peaking out,

looking really scared, like, to make sure that I'm leaving the building. And I'm like, I don't know. And I'm kind of smiling, like, he's so funny. We're still doing our bit. And he's like, we will call. We really will call. And I just, all right. And I keep going, and I'm like, it wasn't a bit.

He's really scared of me. Oh, my God, I was too dry. I didn't wink enough at, you know, the bit. It had nothing to do with the scene. Well. Like, whatever I did, like, just joking back was, didn't work. I hated it. Can you imagine?

Because I've loved him so much. It's like, wouldn't it mean so much that, you know, Gary Shanling thinks I'm funny? I'm sure Gary Shanling thought you were. There's no way in the world. Oh, please. No, it was. He's a quirky guy. I mean, you're describing as a moment in time.

And with a quirky guy like Gary Shandling, I loved them. But, yes, a little unpredictable at any given moment. I mean, we had a moment working on that thing together that was highly unpleasant. It happens in show business. People cross, and again, young. Listen, I just thought of this, speaking of how stupid I could have been in a room. When I first auditioned out here, I didn't understand that the producers, sometimes you just said producers, were the writers.

No, me neither. Okay. Right. So I read for the two producers, and then I go, who wrote this shit? I swear to God, that happened. Oh, my God. I know. And I lived to tell the tale.

I mean, like, many times I feel like I could have, like... I'm sorry. That is stupid. Because even if they're not the writers, they're still producing it. I know. So it's not like someone's got a gun to their head to produce it. I just, again, and I bet you a lot of people in America can relate to this, the word producer is very fuzzy. It kind of still is for us because it's like it could really mean anything.

So I kind of had in my head producer, you know, Dory Sherry, you know, sitting in office with a phone, you know, like, hello, I'm here from Galais. And I'd like to see that audition from Bill Maher. That was the producer, not the writers. The writers were scribes. You know, they were like guys in t-shirts. And so I just thought, oh, these are the producers. And they probably think they must know that this is shit. It's so funny.

I know I was tempted at times so that they would know that I know that it's no good. It's like, what does that get you? It doesn't get you anywhere. Oh. But to this day, when someone says they're a producer, I still have 500 questions. Like a concierge or like a writer? Like, what form does your role as producer take?

Is it creative at all? Or are you a line producer? Like you actually get the show done? Right. No, it's almost anything. And then, of course, it gets muddied even more because the inflation of the title that anyone who is anything on the show,

I've seen 20 producer people. And I know these are the writers. They just want a producer credit because then you're in that union or it's all that kind of bullshit. So we don't know what. Well, it's a promotion. And then you're working your way up to executive producer. Once you get executive producer, they can trust you to create a show, maybe run a show. Right.

But people get a... And get a piece of the show. But you can read a... You can read a... You can read a name on a screen and a... and it's all it says is produced by, and it's somebody, and that is a straight-up writer. Right.

That person does no producing. They are just on a writing staff doing the writing. Yeah. I wonder how that happened. Because the title is worth something. It's like a cab medallion. How did the producer's union even allowed the title for, you know, like there's the producers guild, right?

And there's the writer's guild. Like, how was it allowed? That's what... How come you can't just say I'm a director, too? That's what agents... You know, there's no crossover there. Wait, I have to tell you something. Yes, do it.

No, no, you are... You said something once, and it made a... It was a huge... It was a geological shift for me. With regards to the comeback, because we had gotten canceled, and I didn't feel bad about it, because I felt like,

well, someone made a mistake. And that's their mistake. We did the best show we could. Someone didn't like it or I don't know what. Nothing I can do about that. I'm just proud of what we did. Honestly, I felt fine. And then, you know, people kept saying,

especially business people, I'm getting to you. But business, you know, like executive types or people who ran networks that I happened to know, would say, what happened with ratings bad? No, they were the same, if not better than entourage that started the, you know, season before. Well, it must have been something. I said, I don't know. Michael thought maybe because, you know, we don't have a point of reference for a woman in that role, you know, and that's what it is.

That's what it is. Wait, wait. I don't understand that. What does that mean? Point of reference for a woman. For a woman who is... The lead is a woman. Not just the lead, but flawed and having that kind of ego and being... You were humiliated. Too flawed? And, you know, setting herself up for humiliation, you know, kept stepping into that. So, but, but, and I couldn't, I was like, yeah, that's fun. How is that, though, and how could I forget?

Is that possibly it? Then you said something. I was watching your show, and it wasn't related. It was just that you were talking about, someone made a joke at the expense of, you know, someone who's, you know, from a marginalized group. and I don't remember specifically what it was. And you said, come on, you know, I'm all for humor is humor, and it should be allowed, okay?

But you don't make fun of the victim. You know, that's not going to work. And that's when the penny dropped, and I went, because women are not the people in power. They're not like the white guy in power, and women are kind of, of that marginalized group. It really bothered a lot of people to watch a woman get humiliated all the time.

I feel like that's a casualty of an audience that was, I'm sorry, the people who didn't get it were just not sophisticated enough to appreciate it. And that's fine. There are things I'm unsophisticated in, and I do not appreciate. Hockey, for example. Yeah. Okay. And others.

I'm stupid like watching like murky thriller mystery types. That's when I need a girlfriend. That's, you know, someone who I'm always watching a movie, we're like, honey, what happened there with the guy? Oh, that's the same guy. Oh, I didn't see that where he put the paper down. You know, that's where a girlfriend would be good. Or anyone watching it.

Paying closer attention. Not that I'm a lonely guy. I'm just saying the kind of. a person you're watching movies with and you can always ask. But, so we're all dim in our own ways, but they're missing, like, that is the, what's such genius about that character is that, you know, she, that's what's funny. I mean, W.C. Fields falling. I mean.

I mean. Between a man behaving like that and a woman behaving like that. It's like that's how people who are driven towards something like the spotlight. Yeah, they're going to. make you little stupid things. I don't think that's what it was. You don't? No, because I think everybody, I think that's what made it very relatable,

because the subject matter is very specific. That is where you lost people, because it's like, what is this world? To us, it's our world. And also the level of subtlety in the comedy that you were working with is something that, that's what made me love this show so much and watch it multiple times, because the level of the subtlety, But that's my business or my mind or whatever. Many people, that kind of subtlety is just not in the realm of possibility for them to appreciate.

I don't mean that as a put-down. I just mean... No, no. I'll give you an example of a scene. You were talking... The gay makeup guy... Yeah, Mickey. Mickey.

Yeah. Okay. And you run into this other guy. And you're asking about some other friend... I mean, I think they were both gay, and so that was in the... mix of the scene. And it was so brilliant because you never enunciated what we were thinking and yet we knew it was because they tell you, they give you this piece of information, oh, no, he died.

And you react, you never say the word AIDS. Right. But you're like, oh, and then he goes, oh, no, he was hit by a car crossing barram. And you go, oh, good. No, not good. Right. And like encapsulated in that 13 seconds. of genius comedy.

That's how you know, she thought it was AIDS. So much. But without ever saying it. Right. To me, that is the genius of that show. I also see how other people go, what was that conversation? Why is that funny?

Right? Yeah. And that's, that we, I have the same sort of issue with stuff. I mean, one reason I started this podcast is because lots of people just are not, interested in politics or what's really, you know, that kind of stuff at all. They're interested in more human stuff that they are relatable to everybody's lives. They don't want to hear about Ukraine and the UN and the fucking ACLU and abortion and that's fine.

And they never will and I will never get them. But this, anybody can listen to this. Yeah. Because you just want to entertain. I just want to get high with you. That's what I all, really, that's what I want to do. But I do just want to entertain, honestly. I mean, I do think there's not entertain.

That makes me sound like Ginger from Gilligan's Island. Oh, my God. Yeah, no, I don't. But I do think it's really necessary. Sweetheart, you don't have to fucking convince me on that one. I am all about the idea that we're all just in entertainment. We use different clay. You know, I don't see my people, Bill, you're a pundit.

Well, you know, I think I am selling wisdom out there. Yes, I think the country's fucking dumb and they do need me to straighten it out. I'm not going to lie about that. But my main thing is I'm entertaining. And if I'm not, I'm nothing. Because that's how I look at shit. If you don't entertain me, like, you know, we did a funny thing about a year ago when not this Oscar batch, but the one before was just, incredibly lugubrious, you know, Minari and, you know, the nomad land.

And it was just Debbie Downer time. And we did a whole thing. It was funny about, like, come on, you know, it's got to be a little entertaining. And yes, we understand there are issues, and you can't. But Hollywood did used to know how to take an issue, but also make it not just sad. Yeah. Right? Yeah.

So when you say you're out to entertain. You had me in hello with that one. Yeah. Well, I think everyone needs a break. I mean, that's what everyone wants, really badly. They really want a break. But by the way, your show, you have no agenda. You're just a very funny person.

And you're being really honest about what, and brave, about what you think about things and how you feel about how people respond to what you think, too. Like, you know, like, you know. I actually said like, you know. But, um... Yeah, and... No, and there's a lot of value in that. There's a lot of value in that.

But we both, I think, have these kind of careers where we got the memo fairly early on. There is somewhat of a ceiling for us. Yeah. And it's a ceiling created by the fact that, you know, there are levels of subtlety that, you know, Everybody can go and enjoy what's the top gun. Uh-huh. Yeah, right. I mean, it's a billion-dollar opening and a billion people will see it.

We're not playing in that... No. I don't see. Yeah. I can't imagine. We can't. We really don't even want to, right? Can't imagine anyone asking me to be in.

Well, yeah. Maverick 3 or whatever, you know. You know, it would be great. Actually, you wouldn't. You would fucking steal that. And also make it, it would be so great if they actually did that. Or you were in a... I know, but who's going, wait, are you 60?

Because it would be great. But you don't look anywhere in your 60. Oh, good. Yeah, you look great. Thank you. You always did. Thank you. I always thought you, I mean, I always had a little crush on you on friends because I thought you were the smart one on your show.

And I like... She just got dizzy. And I was, quite frankly, the smart one on my show. Wait, I was the only one on my show. Which makes you the smartest one on your show. But, I mean, not that everybody on the show wasn't smart. They were all smart. Everybody's smart.

Yeah, they are. But they are. They are. They really are. They actually are. Yeah, and they're all good. Learned a lot from them. Yeah.

But I would say even they probably would agree. If you had to vote for who is the smartest, it would probably be you. Who's the one that drones on and on about things we don't want to talk about? Who's the one that always has a theory about something? Is that what you did? Yeah. Really? Oh, I always always.

I'm always like, what's my theory behind that, you know. But you have a lot of time to kill. What's the evidence? How do you put that together? Right. That's what I remember from the sitcom. Right, chill. But I would bring up, you know, look, well, no, I'm watching CNN. You've got to see what's happening here. It's very important. And they didn't want to get into that. Okay. Yeah, no, I'll be back. Will you tell me what happened? Yeah.

What were they talking about? Things that people talk about. I mean, other things, yes, that. Of course you were in your 20s. But not for as long as I'm, not me. I was 30 when we started it. 30, ha, ha. 30s.

Same thing. Yeah. But, yeah, but people in their 20s generally tend to be more, you know, first of all, sort of like navel gazing. I mean, it's like your first, I would say you're born twice in life. Once when you're actually born, what? Someone's calling me. Oh, on your phone?

I mean, on your watch? Oh, for fuck's sake. I can't even... I've dismissed it. No, no, no. I just don't... I never saw anybody like get a call on their watch.

Because my phone's just right there. But what I know. So it rings on here. But why do you need... I don't know. That's not why I have it. That's not why I have it. Why do you have it?

I like to know what time it is. But you didn't have to get a watch that hooked up to your phone. And it also tells me... you know, if I've taken any steps today, or was I just sitting in my chair all day? But your brain knows that. Not anymore, Bill. What are you saying? You're an Android?

Do you know Ray Kurzweil? No. Oh, he's an author. They won't. It's really important, I guess. It is? All right. I'll let you get out of here if you need to.

He's an amazing thinker and scientist and professor, and he's been writing. predicted a lot of amazing things like down to the year like the fall of the Soviet Union. Oh, wow. But he predicts, he has a book called The Singularity, which says in 2028, man and machine will basically... Become. I mean, that's only six years away. Now, of course, we are already partway there. People do have parts in them that are machine parts.

Yes, with computers in it, some of them even. Yes. with things that communicate with computers. As you and I are punching old age in the mouth, is this something that you would consider? Because I sure would. Really? Well, I mean, if I could just keep my brain and my dick.

The rest of it... The rest of it, you could fucking replace. You're two favorite things. But they have a sibling rivalry. Oh, why argue? He's always going to win. Still, that's pretty good. Yeah, that is pretty good. We'll be right back.

Do you have to take your call? No, absolutely not. Okay, all right. I'm just so grateful. Grateful you're here. Long enough. Wait, can I ask you one question? You can ask me anything? We're sitting around drinking.

What field of history? What were you studying? Well, I was at Cornell, and I was trying to establish that. I knew I loved history. I taught myself American history. Could name all the American presidents in a row if you forced me to. Not because I have it memorized, just because I know the history. I think I could.

Anyway, so I did. did love medieval. That really called to me. I remember, I mean, this is before computers, so we were in the stacks, you know, the library. I loved the stacks. Yeah, the stacks. See, there's more one. You're in the stacks. The girl in the stacks. That'd be a good romantic song, or a movie that I'll never write. But so... The girl in the stacks, everybody. I'll see you tomorrow night. It's kind of sexy, that title. Girl in the Stacks? Yeah. Yeah. But it would have to be a period piece because there's no more stack. But I remember being in there, these dusty old books, and I was writing some paper

on the, something in the medieval period. And the professor, he's talking about the paper or something, and he said, asked him a question and he said, well, it doesn't matter. You know, at this point, there's really nothing new you could add to this. And I'm like, then what the fuck am I doing with this is a major? Now, mind you, I knew I was going to be a comedian when I was teaching. 10. So when I was at college, I really wasn't trying to get a degree that would get me a job. I knew what I was going to do. You know, go and...

So the grades weren't, you weren't out for, I got to get an A. No, but I did anyway. I was always... Wow. I was a straight-A student in high school. I missed one day of high school. Wow. COVID. And, no, but I love the subject. If I had like a 28-hour day, I would spend two of them read just reading history. Wow. I don't agree with that professor, though. There's no such thing.

But it was discouraging. Right. How were you to know then? No, because I got to say. I was younger than when I was the idiot who said who wrote this show. Can imagine how stupid I was then? Well. No.

It's almost beyond. No, but because I've got to say, doing, who do you think you are, and the historians, you know, that give us context for whatever the person is looking at, there's so many, there are different interpretations of history. So my question is, so would you read different historians who had differing opinions about certain events? Well, there's, and. Yeah, I mean, there's, like, there's. There's always someone who wants to be a revisionist.

Based on new letters they found, new information. Just based on they have to publish something. Okay. Yeah, that's a problem too. That's a lot of, academia is such a scuzzy area. I know it's people, I'm sure there's plenty of professors now, like dropping their pipes. How dare you? Yes, I'm sure there's exceptions.

And yes, we need colleges and universities. But a lot of it is, they know this better than anybody, political and what you publish and yes sometimes you just have to find i don't think that professor was wrong when he said that when i if i was researching the venerable bead or somebody he who lived in 690 in lindisfarne in the monastery no we're not going to find anything new about this motherfucker anything that came out about this guy we know i think there's no more venerable bead stuff that's TMZ is not going to come out tomorrow. There's a story about the venerable bee.

Well, no, TMZ won't. But who knows? Sometimes there's a letter. There's something somewhere. But even without that, it's just, I don't know. Like, you know, and then you have archaeology where they find new things about how people were killed or what they were eating if someone was poisoned or. Well, that doesn't happen that often. That can.

But where that does happen a lot, of course, is. in early man history, that is always changing. Because they don't have the complete fossil record at all. They have pieces here and pieces there. Don't get me started on the fossil record. No, evolutionary biology was what I was interested in. Before comedy? Yeah, before comedy.

Yeah, that's what I was studying in school. And yeah. Well, that's why I always thought for your genealogy show you should have on Lucy. Okay. Lucy. Yeah. The very first.

Who better? But not the very first anymore, I don't think. Well, early. Early. I'm related to her, I think. We're all related to her. Who is Lucy? Tell the audience who Lucy is.

Lucy was, well, I don't know when. I don't have the details. Two point five million years ago. That's it? Yes. Lucy was about four feet tall. and lived about two and a half million years ago, and is one of our direct ancestors.

Yeah. Humans came along, you know, like 200,000 years ago. And, of course, we are not the only human species. We wipe the other ones out. You know, wherever, have you read the great book, Sapiens? No. Oh, you love it. No, I didn't.

That is a book for you. You'd love that book. Okay. Because it talks about, well, many things about, sapiens, but one, wherever humans went, the fossil record is very clear, we killed everything, including the other human species and the other big animal species. Like there's a whole bunch of species, for example, in Australia, and then humans arrive, and a thousand years later, we don't have any fossils from those big animals. They just fucking killed them all. Like the way

the people killed the buffalo in our American West, just for fun and just like... Well, for fun. They're food, too. Food, but they killed a lot of buffalo just because, I mean, they would just, they would have a herd, and they were just too many to use. The Indians, of course, used all the buffalo. Right. We were the opposite. Yeah.

And we're still those assholes. Yeah. That's right. When are we going to stop being surprised? They're used to it. No, that's not the right attitude. And it's not funny enough, do you say? Well, I mean, not that, look, all humans are shitty people.

You know, it's not like Indians didn't do shitty things, too, to each other. If, yeah, if feeling insecure enough and scared enough, I think humans become really shitty. But I think when there's a crisis or a need for people to come together and help each other, they do. to be cooperative. I think they do. Oh. When it feels, when it's imminent. Well, some do, and some take advantage of the situation.

Many take advantage. Some do. But then Sheriff Taylor runs them out of town. So it's okay. Is that where you're getting this? That was a great lesson teaching show. There used to be great lesson. I was just going to say, remember when

you'd watch a show and there was always, you knew that the right thing would happen in the end. end and I miss that. There was a great classic episode of, what was it called, Mayberry? Oh, well, now I can't remember. I mean, the town was Mayberry. Was it called Mayberry RFD or welcome to Mayberry?

The Andy Griffith show. The Andy Griffiths, exactly. You know why? We can't want to like, right. The Andy Griffith. Sheriff was without a gun? No, that was. I watched it in reruns when I was a kid when I was homesick.

And I loved it. Me too. So there was an episode where Opie, Ron Howard, of course, later to be the great director, Ron Howard, he kills a bird with a slingshot. And then he's trying to teach him a lesson why he shouldn't have done that. And he's, Opie's complaining about the bird chirping. And he said, yeah, well, I'm not going to shoot that bird away.

That's that bird calling for his mama, and I'm going to let you hear how sad she is. Wow. So I don't know why that, you know, why that one stuck in my memory that episode. But it may have been why I joined PETA in the 90s. And I've been a PETA board member all these years, you know. Yeah. No, but it's also, it's right. And it's kind of sophisticated.

because it's very easy to say, all right, you killed a bird, you didn't have to do that, but all right. I mean, because that's how a lot of people felt like, well, it's a bird. It's not a conscious being like we are. Right. Yeah, we have to treat each other with respect. If we're all working on something, you have to show some appreciation for what other people are contributing. You know, I don't mean demonstrated every day, show appreciation and not saying, what the fuck you did it wrong? You know, you don't talk to someone like that. Is that what your experience has been on sets? Yeah.

Yeah. Not to me personally, but I've seen it. Yes, but sets are tense places. But they don't have to be. No. And they're less tense now. I feel like the ones I've been on have been much less tense. Really?

But it's a high wire industry. I mean, we're paid more than most people, a lot more. Mm-hmm. Okay. You're up on a higher wire. Like, if you fuck up, it can be in front of millions instead of just three people, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah.

What's at stake if you're on a film set, you know, a film is very often, you know, $150 million startup industry. That's really, it's a quick startup industry. Right. That's investing $150 million. If you were making widgets, it's like, boy, we better sell some of these widgets, and it could fail. Yeah, it could. Yeah. So people are tense.

And I've never seen any sort of set where there wasn't some sort of blow-up or people going nuts. I mean, we see some of them on film. We've seen actors and directors and go nuts. From a while ago. I've had it happen to me personally on a set, like just screamed out by someone for no good reason. Right. And then how did it go after that? That's a sitcom that was not the one I was.

talked about before, but the other one that it was quickly canceled. But, yeah. No, but it's just. Yeah, it's rough. It doesn't have, but it doesn't, it's not necessary. It's not, you know, you handed me the wrong instrument for this brain surgery. That's not what it is. It's not in the moment life or death.

We can, it's digital, it's not even film. We can do the take again. But show people. We have editors. I mean, there's, it's, it's, everything. No one has, and your best work comes when you're just a little more relaxed. You know, you have like a nervous energy, but it doesn't have to be an angry energy. You know what I mean?

It's just... Yeah, I mean, but again, it's hard to get the very talented people without their fucking quirks. Show people are just their... Everything about them is exaggerated. You know, they're very often exaggeratedly good-looking, temperamental. You know, my friend always says insanity photographs. Oh. You know, we're crazy people.

But something about that is also charismatic and you can't take your eyes off it. Or honest, because they can't help themselves. Sometimes, yes. Trump's that way. You know, he can't help revealing himself. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know if you're ever going to have this utopia where you have the really talented people and there's not craziness going on.

It's a crazy business. You know, okay. I mean, I know plenty of talented people that are not crazy. I agree. And if you have the choice to work with them, you should. Yeah. But there might be a... But there's less tolerance for the ones that act out and misbehave and...

make it a miserable experience. Yeah. And to me, that's a good thing. Yeah, unless they make a fortune. If the thing makes a fortune because of that person, they're going to put up with an amazing amount of shit. They are. But you're saying, I mean, I don't know that I agree that a person's

difficult, you know, punishing side of them is what makes them talented. I think maybe they think it is, but I don't think it is. I really don't. I don't think they trust that they've just got it and you don't have to panic or worry over it. I'm just saying I don't think they're separable, you know, like watching the Johnny Depp trial. I mean, some of the things he was doing, passing out and throwing places, plates and, you know. Throwing places. That's right.

You know, calling her a cunt and this and that are not model behavior. No. But the jury forgave him because he's wildly charismatic. I don't know if you can separate those two things. He's a nut. He always was a nut. Insanity photographs. It works on camera.

And if you took away the insanity, I think, you know, you'd have Richard Grico. I almost said, wait, who? He was this Richard Grico. No, I do. Oh, now I got it. No, mad to anybody do Tio. I got so many people mad at me. He was a very good-looking actor on a, you know, like one of those shows like 21 Jump Street.

Oh, yeah. He had a minute there where he was the It Boy. Yeah, I wasn't watching TV at that time. But it didn't quite, you know, I would have, you know, I'm sure there are people who bet money on Richard Rico and not Johnny Depp. And after that trial, I bet you Richard Grico's like, boy, I died. a bullet there. All right, I'll let you go back to your life in the wild. And you need to find another clove cigarette.

Oh, I got them right here. Oh, it's a pretty case. I know. I find it so sophisticated to have a little... It is. It's really elegant. Yes. Very nice.

Madame? No. No, thank you. Well, thank you. Thank you very much. This was more fun than I could tell you. And I'm so flattered that you just did it. Yeah, why wouldn't I?

Because you need me like a hole in the head. What? That's how I feel about you. You're you. No, you know there's a big difference. Don't make me go through other parts of the comeback that. Yeah. But meanwhile, by the way, I brought that whole thing up for a reason was because it made sense to me, like for the first time when you, and I was like so people.

Because the people that I had talked to thinking. They see women as victims, and it never dawned on me, just like it never dawned on you that, you know. But that was... It never dawned on me, and I went, shit, you missed it again. But that character was so much more than just that. I mean, that was certainly... I thought so. The McGuffin that gets the character going, I mean, that, I mean, but, again, I think that's all, that's what was relatable.

We've all been the person. who thinks they're going to be cast as the young hot one, not literally, but in life, but really is going to be the shrumpy aunt with the catchphrase. I mean, that alone, you know, should have won you all of the awards because that was just so perfect. And certainly everybody in showbiz knows it, but in life it happens too. Yes, no, we had, there are plenty of people in other industries and went, yeah.

Of course. I mean. You think you're going to, and they don't, they see you as this. And the way she smiled through it all. Yes. How about that? She never, like, let it get them down. I mean, she never let that heavy set guy who I'm still afraid of.

Polly G. Oh, I did not like him. Remember one time he was getting blown when you walked in on it. Oh, it was just, everything was just terrible about him. He's still scared. me. He should have been on Oz. Oh, so funny. So scary. But, like, he never, like, he would never, you would never get bitter, you know,

you would never, you would just soldier on. She just kept going. Yes. Yeah. I find that so much more inspiring than, you know. I think it has to do with how you see things. Because for some people, it was like, she just got humiliated at every turn. And for other people, it was like, no, she just kept going.

She just kept saying, yeah, I clock that. I won't have it. I'm going to create my own reality. Here we go. And then they did, they were nice enough to, somebody was smart enough to do it again. Yeah, that was fun. A third time?

Maybe. Yeah. It's been nine years soon. So maybe. It's a, I mean, that character is. I know, I slip into her so easily. I mean, there are people who have done, you know, as through time, they've done it the same character.

They just picked it up. It's, you know. Yeah. Alan Partridge. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. All right. Now the mics are off. All right.

That was fun. I feel like I got to know you. Me too. I love it. Good, the podcasts.