Club Random with Bill Maher - Lisa Kudrow | Club Random with Bill Maher

Episode Date: July 11, 2022

Bill Maher and Lisa Kudrow randomly riff on bad behavior on sitcom sets, the stupidest thing Bill ever did in show business, Bill’s favorite show of Lisa’s (it’s not Friends), how The Andy Griffith Show made Bill join PETA, Lisa’s most awkward audition ever, and whether or not you have be insane to be a great actor.

I'm glad I knew. Oh, thank you. We're not supposed to hug because of the mics. Can you still hear it? And the Omacron. I said, oh, no, I don't hug because of Omacron. And then I forgot because I still... Full of monkeypox.

LAUGHTER Uh, no, that's the old Dean Martin show where he didn't know who the guest was. Do you remember that? No. You don't? You don't remember the Dean Martin show? No.

Really? You've been young for that, huh? Well, I might be a little. Unless my parents watched it, I don't think they did. I bet you your mother did. My mother had such a pussy boner for Dean Martin in that show. He was a very attractive guy. Yeah. And of course, that character he played sort of a character who was like drunk. He really wasn't drunk. But he did really... Oh, he really wasn't.

Ever. No. Really. And he really wasn't, ever. No, really. And he really did only show up for the tape. So he had these three broad, called the gold diggers. Something you would... No, that sounds familiar. Yes, and they would literally lead him and prop him up in front of the card which he would read and fuck up, which made it funnier.

Right, right, right. You know, and there was one section of the card which he would read and fuck up which made it funnier. Right, right, right. You know, and there was one section of the show where he didn't, he walked, it was at the piano with this piano guy tinkling and it was like, and the door would open. It's Elephant's Gerald Bear who are his daddy. Davis, he had no idea. I really think that was true. I did know, I mean, I've been asking from the beginning. I said, I can get was true. I did know, I mean, I've been asking from the beginning, I said, if I could get you here,

what hip or person for this little place? What, I'm your biggest? Really? Why would you think I wouldn't want you? I mean, I would never want anyone here, first of all, in my house. I'm sure. Who I didn't adore.

Oh my God, I'm so happy to hear that. Well, why did you come? Why did you come? It's a big disappointment. I'm disappointment. No, because I'm in awe of adore. Oh my God, I'm so happy to hear that. Well, why did you come? I just got a big disappointment. I just appointment. No, because I'm in awe of you. Oh, I adore you. Good, see, that's what I don't assume. It's a two-way street.

Of course. I live in the real world. Oh, no, this is my home. I mean, I don't know. This is only for fun. Yeah. This whole thing. I mean, I did.

Yeah, are you liking it? Oh my God. I mean, look, I'm not going to lie. I spent a bit of money so that we could, you know, set this place. I mean, it's almost like a reality show combined with the podcast, but that's the way I wanted it so that we could have, you know, I mean, there's a lot of podcasts and I find them somehow great, but they're, you know, there's a big penis mic in your face. I haven't done that one. You know what I mean?

There's a giant... I've done the one with the big flower in your face. What's that? vagina. Oh, flower. Yeah, I've seen those two. I went too far. I went too...

Well, out of... I wanted just to be like like the way I really am, except there's no music. That always, of course we can't while we're talking. But it just feels like there is something missing and everything else feels right. It's just us, there's nobody else in the room. There's liquor and these club cigarettes.

I don't know what they're putting in these things. I can tell you, these are... It's too bad, you're not allowed to know. I know. know what they're putting in these things. I can tell you. These are... Too bad you're not allowed to know. I know. That's the story. Well, clubs. You know, I know you're a history buff.

Do you know anything about the history of clubs? No. We'll make it up. Me? Make it up? Yeah. Oh, okay. Well, tobacco was for exports, so they couldn't afford

to let regular folks smoke it. Isn't that interesting? But that sounded possible, right? export, so they couldn't afford to let regular folks smoke it. Isn't that interesting? But that sounded possible, right? So incredibly real. Like, if you had, if I had not set it up, like, make it up, I would have just gone with it. I could make up anything. Yeah.

Many of us could, you know. When the kids feel bad about not knowing,, I always try to comfort them by saying, you know, we all don't know like, I mean, when you think of the infinite amount of things that you could possibly know in this world, even this smartest person does not even know point 1%. Right. Yeah, we're almost fully ignorant of everything,

but we, you know, obviously, you saw people more than others. Well, no, and then the things you learn, you don't remember. So that's too bad. That's true too. That part's really too bad. I think that has something to do with the clothes. I don't know, I can't make a direct correlation,

but. Well, you know, now, but we'll know they're doing studies with clothes and cognition. Can I make you a drink? Or? No, I have water. You that's all you want? Yeah.

I know it's five o'clock. Your episode. So it's okay. It's five o'clock somewhere. Oh, wait, here. Are you Epstemius? Yeah, I don't drink a lot. You said Epstemius. So I thought, okay.

Epstimias. Epstiming. Epstimias. Epstimias. Epstimias, isn't that mean you... Yeah, you're... Are you? No. With drinking, the only time I drink really is here.

Oh. Really? Yes. I used to drink... the only time I drink really is here. Oh, really? Yes, I used to drink like an Irishman. I was never a drunk, although I certainly have been drunk many times. But I drink Irishly, which is not good for your liver, I'm sure. And I don't want to be, look like Ted Kennedy. So, I, especially now that he's dead, but even before, you know, that kind of... No, it takes a toll.

Especially if you're Irish. Really? Well, sure, because you're lighter, you know, it's like the opposite of Black Don't Crack. The big European. Crack's the most. European. Cracks the most. European. All Europeans are pretty white. But more so, the...

Some... Well, like the beautiful people of the Nordic countries, somehow are even further north, but they have that beautiful olive skin, usually. They do? Yes. Olive? Yes. Olive? Yes. Wait, why doesn't that sound even a little bit right to me? You mean the like blond skinned an avian?

Yes, skinned an avian, of course. They don't look like the gaelic people, my people. They're not ruddy. Wait a minute. What's ruddy? What's ruddy? Ruddy is red. Yeah, what I thought. Well, that's a think of somebody like, you know, What's ready? What's ready? Ready is red. Yeah. Red. What I thought.

Well, that's a think of somebody like, you know, Kennedy. Yeah. Right. Offer a name out. But not Jack Kennedy. But not Jack Kennedy. He looked more

Well, he had makeup. Always? He was just a good looking guy. Yeah. It's funny how in families sometimes there's just, you know, siblings and one of them is the good-looking one. Yeah.

You know, Bobby... Well, he was good-looking. Not like Jack. He was a little... Was he back at looking though? He was just... He was sexier because he was grittier.

I guess not my type. I think that's not your type. No. A Jack type. No. A Jack Kennedy? No. But a Bobby Kennedy. It was a little cuter to me. Physically cuter?

Yeah. See, most people would say not that. They would say the reverse. Right. And I even think that you're, you know, as a woman who are deeper and feel things on a deeper level, well, it's true, especially in this subject. It's like the physical part is not as important to you. I think something about Bobby Kennedy

is getting to you in your deep woman way. Maybe, but here, I misled. I was just comparing. But none of the candidates are my type. None of the candidates. No. No. Because of their look or because of their actions.

Their teeth. Their teeth. No. What? What's wrong with their teeth? I don't know. That's the British who up the bad teeth. No, it's not that they had bad teeth,

but I didn't like their teeth. I just didn't like it. I don't. No. It all't like it. I don't. Uh-uh. No. You did. Well, it all looked like that. And did this inflect, I mean, in fact, your view of their politics?

No. Well, I was well. I was. He would not vote for someone against other teeth. He said, good, Ro, would you? Well, I don't like Bill Clinton's teeth. No, but I, um, no, but I was, I don't like Bill Clinton's teeth. No, but I was born when John Kennedy was killed.

63? Yeah. I was five. And I was five when Bobby Kennedy was killed. So no, no. I mean, I didn't have politics about them. But my parents were huge fans. So were mine.

Yeah. But this reason my father, again, Irish, Catholic, and you know, I mean, and my father, my grandfather, had a full broke. Really? Yes, I never met. He was from... No, but he was, I guess, sacked a generation.

Oh, right, it's with everybody, yeah, so. But this is, I mean, a man I never met. Oh, he was from... No, but he was, I guess, sacked a generation. Oh, right, it's with everybody, yeah, so. But this is, I mean, a man I never met, but it's funny if I had done your show instead of skip gate to the show. Yeah. You did? Did I see it? Did I watch all of the shows? I guess I don't remember them. When did you do it?

I would say four years ago. Oh, shoot. Something like that. I'll rewatch it. Well, that sounds like I'll rewatch it. Um. Well, that sounds like I'll rewatch it. I mean, but your show is fantastic. I mean, it's a great idea for a show. And the way you make it into it.

I wish it were my idea. As a history major, I appreciate it. Oh, you're a history major. I was in college. Yeah. You know, that's a lot more history than everyone learns in high school, right? I like history and I love when you weave in it. Yeah.

No, because that's why I loved this show, because it's history, but it's the personal story that drive it home. Sure. It makes it more interesting. Yeah. Like why can't they teach it? But when I did the his show this the my genealogy For Skip I mean the star of that was my grandfather who again, I never met but he was a he was a baller He was a macho guy. He would ran the Boatsman's Union. Oh in New Jersey in New York

You know the circle daylight of the stuff that went around met. And this is in the days when the Irish ran New York. Every cop, every fireman, you know, all sorts of Mike. Yeah. And this isn't part of the teamsters, because that's, it's a bunch of it. No, no, that's truck. It's not a call. Yes, it's not a call.

Okay. And it was also what happened, I guess, on the ports, because he had a headline from 1920 and it was my grandfather called a strike and was brought up to the White House because it had to be settled because it was the port of New York. Oh, yeah. But he was a union captain who got in the days when, I mean, what unions had to fight for back then was like, you know, we would like a 14-hour work day and you

could only whip them if it was just crazy would he have to fight? You don't get to choose who we marry. Yeah. Yeah crazy shit. So that was my grandfather. William Mare also. I would have been William Mare R. III if I had been confirmed in the Catholic church because I would have been

William Alloicious M. R. that was my grandfather's name and my father's name and I was supposed to be William Alloicious M. R. but you get your confirmation, your middle name at your confirmation in the Catholics. So, and I never made it that far. I didn't know that. Yeah. But you're still, that's not your given name, like the birth certificate, doesn't it?

I have no mental name. Because you're supposed to get it at 13. You're supposed to get it at 13 when you are confirmed. That's a big thing in the Catholic Church. It's seven, you have your first communion, that traumatized me like I can't even tell you. And then 13, you're confirmed. I don't know what they say.

So just like the bar mitzvah. Why did it traumatize you? What, you know, nuns, fucking sadists, and you know, they were. Well, of course. Some of them are nice, I assume. On trouble with angels, they were really nice. But I mean,

Well, nuns are married to Christ, and apparently he's not putting out. Okay. Because they have a kind of anger issues that you only get when you've never been late. I don't know what it was, and I was seven years old. All I know is one of them one day, for example, this one sticks in my mind, said, you know, we're in the church and they're doing their shit up there, and I guess I was like, you know, and she said, the boy who's slumping

is going to go to hell. Oh, wow. They did shit like that. Wait a minute. Okay, but I thought your mom, your mom is Jewish. Right, that I never even knew until I was 13 because I was so traumatized by going to church. I didn't even think why doesn't mom come?

I don't know, she just never does. It never crossed my mind to ask. I just wanted to get out of it. But I thought it was tricky for a Catholic to marry a Jew. It was, it was so how, how did that all happen? Especially in 1951 when they did. It was like an interracial marriage, not even today, like 20 years ago.

Yeah, well it was in the 60s too, and even into the 70s, it was sort of starting to get like, wow. Did you watch Mad Men? Yeah. Remember the first season or second, there was a plot line of, he goes out with the girl from the Jewish department store.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, they had their own Jews had their own department store. Or owned a very successful department store. I've been having them all. Right, but I mean, I think gimbals, the real gimbals was that. Yeah. I think in a day when, what, what, what,

but I'm just saying I have a place to shop. Yes, well, just the idea that this was the early 60s and Gentiles and Jews shopped separately in department store. I wasn't aware of that. Wait, I wasn't aware of that. I wasn't aware of that. Are you sure history major? I'm not sure that a Jew couldn't walk into.

Macy's. Macy's. I guess so, yes. And Lundau. Yes, but it seemed to me like he was cross, like, he was, of course, cheating on his wife, as he always was. But also, he was sort of like crossing into a different world is the way they sort of presented it.

And I think people don't realize how much Jew and Gentile, you know, I mean, when Kennedy ran in 60, it was a big deal that he was Catholic. Right. Yeah, yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. This country is always changing as people are always changing and growing and... And getting used to each other's differences. Progressing.

These people who cannot help themselves from looking backward and saying, you know what, you people were so benited back then. You know what, if you had lived back then with us, you would have been the same asshole. History is very much like humans. It's like looking at your own life and going, what a dick I was at eight. Yeah.

I can't believe I spent all that time thinking about baseball cards, dumbass. You know, it's childish. Yeah. Yeah. Right? Yeah, but what's childish? But what parts childish? The childish part is making, is feeling superior. Oh, you are a worker now. But it's not you are better. You just are living in a different time. Right.

You would have been just like us. Yes. We all wore big hair in the 80s. Yeah. Right? Yeah. I don't know if my hair was that big, but because, you know, I wasn't that in step.

But yeah. What is that? It's true. You're not in step. You mean you were. With big hair. No, but it means step. In general, in step. You mean you're with a big hair? I've got more of the look of it. No, but it means step.

The general you were in outside, are you saying? I was a little, yeah, a little moody, you know. I'm so, yeah, a little bit. Moody. You know, and do it 80s. Yeah, well, just starting growling and figuring out my comedic voice and, you know, all of that was the most important thing ever.

So, that's all. I was the most important thing ever. So that's all I was thinking about. I really didn't want to look like absolutely everybody else because I didn't think I'd do well if I was trying to. But no, but I mean getting back to what you were saying though, because I was talking about this like in the context of who do you think you are because we're gonna be on soon and and I was saying you know It's I think it's really important to know our history and understand How it informed or how our society works. Yes, and what was tolerated But you know there were people people thought it was perfectly okay to own another human being.

You know, that's... But, you know, let's have some context to that. They thought that everywhere in the world. Yeah, but not 30 years after everywhere else in the world stopped doing it. You tell me, America. In America, and in America, and in the South. Yeah, we have brought up the rear on a number of issues. Yeah. That's number of issues.

That's one of them. 80 countries, I think, have had a woman leader. We have not... Universal healthcare, most of the big boy countries have a much better system. Nothing is perfect in that realm. But don't get me started. But remember when medicine wasn't a big business? Because that in the 70s, it wasn't. It was still like the healing arts.

Well, we, I mean, healthcare is a mess in this country for many reasons, but the top two probably would be for me, yes, the corporate element of it. The fact that a hospital is run very much like an airline. They don't want any empty seats on an airplane and they don't want any empty beds. That's why when there's a crisis, they're overrun. They should have excess space, but that would hurt the bottom line. So that's huge.

And the other huge thing I think is that the people, the people are just so incredibly unhealthy to begin with. And that is absolutely something I lay at the doorstep of the medical establishment, who doesn't have the balls to tell them what they shouldn't do. And of course, how cozy the pharmaceutical industry is with the medical industry. And I mean, I'm not saying it's all corruption. I mean, obviously, COVID was a real thing. And I have many qualms about how we handled it. But I mean, that's not anybody's fault.

But if the population wasn't so fundamentally unhealthy to begin with, we would not have devastated this country the way it did. We had a worse outcome than any other country. Oh, we did? Yes. It turns out that we did proportionally? I think so. I mean, I seem to remember that headline a couple of months ago.

I mean, I'm sure there are variations in per capita and blah, blah, blah, but I mean, it was over a million people. And of course, that's a fuzzy stat also because they don't really make any difference between dying of COVID and dying with COVID. And anyone with medical sophistication understands that everything in medicine is a combination of factors. We are supported by wine enthusiasts. You know, the old saying wine women and song, I like to say in my

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I'm starting to hear more and more about personalized medicine, like a doctor who's practicing personalized medicine. So that not just going by looking into what else about your physical makeup and your biology might be contributing to whatever symptoms or what's going on instead of just treating symptoms. Well, yeah, I mean, or calling it this disease, not that syndrome because there's other things informing it. I mean, that's a lot of holistic medicine. Right. What I would call holistic medicine.

Right. Well, that's now they're calling it personal. What's your name? They don't want to sound. Right. They don't want to sound like hippies. Right. That's that word that's, right.

That's that's quack stuff. Right. You don't have to say that. I mean, some of it is. I'll tell you a interesting thing about, and I have had a holistic doctor who I think changed my life as much as anybody, and I'm very grateful. I, he absolutely knows that I don't agree with everything. Yeah.

And I also definitely want a MD doctor also. I think you need both to balance. Yeah. Well, you get, you might get more information. Right. Two that you can decide about. But, so, like, you might get more information too that you can decide about. But so, like, you know, I got it, I started to get into it.

This is like almost 20 years ago. And, you know, everything is super natural, which I totally get that. I remember the first time we went out socially, there was one restaurant in all of LA, he would go to, that was pure enough. Wait, who would? This is my holistic doctor.

Oh, okay. So, like, and you know, he just wouldn't have anything, you know, no bread, no, like, down the line. Natural, natural, natural, no added biotics, of course, no pharmaceuticals, no this, no that, no sugar, nothing. But then, very big on colonics. Oh. Which may or may not.

I remember that trend. It's, I don't think it's a trend, I think. But point being, like, if you're like natural, natural, natural, when you think about sticking water up your ass, the word that comes to mind is not natural. It's not like if I was just standing around with a garden hose in my hand, I would absently just stick it up my ass. So for everything to be natural, natural, natural, and also stick water up your ass.

Right. No, it's not something that naturally occurs. Right. But it also might be very good for you. I don't know if it's really good for you. Nobody knows anything for sure. Right. In medicine. Thank you. No, but that's I'm always trying to push this point.

Yes. Just, you know what? I accept where we are. I have to. What could I do else? Where we're in the year 2022. Yes. In 2052, they're not going to look back and go, boy, in 2022,

we pretty much had it all figured out medically. You were just crossing the T's and dotting the S. They're going to do what they do every seven years, which is, yeah, we were wrong about that. That's what I always say. Yeah. Just don't give me the attitude of just do what we say, because whenever we have ever been wrong. Right. All the time.

All the time. And all the time. All the time. And it's not mostly your fault. It's just again, like the year we live in. No, but just be honest. Be honest. We don't really know. Right.

But what's recommended in there are some studies that show this might work. There are so-called studies not causing effects, so we can't know absolutely. But here's all I have to offer. Yeah, go for it. But don't say like they did, no, honey, for your pregnancy, you need to take DES for your pregnant, and we need your nauseous, so you'll just take DES. This estrogen that caused all kinds of reproductive problems in the kids that were born.

Did you take it? No, no, not me. I mean, my mom's generation, your mom's generation. And, you know, I do know a lot of people who have reproductive problems because of it. But they gave it to all the women back then? No, but they were offering it a lot. Right.

Just like in the 20s, they were offering women offering, insisting. Yeah, you need some opium. I mean, we have to give you, yeah, because you're hysterical. You're going through the change and you're hysterical. Or you just had a baby, so you're hysterical. Right.

And yet all these people, it's the same crisis we're having. Yes. And we had it in the 20s. It all happened. And then the government made it illegal. And they went to heroin. You had the exact same problem. We just repeated history.

And in 100 years, this will be the 20s that they're talking about when the same attitude that we're talking about the 1920s that they're talking about, when the same attitude that we're talking about the 1920s, things will seem incredibly primitive in their thinking and just very wrong. I mean, simple things like they very often misdiagnose fungal infections for bacterial infections. They treat everything with antibiotics. First of all, there's a lot of money in it.

But it's also just where, like, they're not, I'm not saying they're trying to be corrupt. It's just like, right, right. Well, I don't know. You know, someone is trying to make money. Well, yes, and also... But the doctors are just trying to give you the best information they have. Yes, and also they listen to the patients too much, you know Ask your doctor. We're only one of two countries that has direct to consumer advertising for pharmaceuticals Yeah, so you should never be like hey doc Can I get some of that sure the cute rep from the pharmaceutical company was by this afternoon and

She strutted her ass in here and winked at me, and I bought a whole parcel of this, and they're taking me on this cruise in a couple of months. You know, that should go on with doctors. I know. And it's very easy just to pass out antibiotics and vikadin, and especially if you're at one of these

low rents, you know, I certainly have heard the stories from people who go to the one on the corner and the, you know, urgent care. And it's like I've heard harrowing stories, just terrible decisions that these people are making because they don't care. They're not really your doctor. You know, I mean, it's like, I know my mechanic better. Then, you know, so. We're gonna be, uh-huh, I don't.

I don't know anyone. I don't know anyone. You're fun. He just did like, are you right there? You did that like, you were reading a line and that's why you're so good. I'm, oh, thanks. I just think it's just a generous, yeah.

You're a line, you know. I've never seen you in anything where you didn't kill it. And you're like, it's not funny the way you like, you know, you never seem to want to be out front. You just want to like be the one who steals it and you always do. No, I just want to be the one who steals it. That would be funny.

That's what I tell my agent, you know, just find me something where I can steal it. Oh. Yeah. And then I don't know when the last time I saw you, but because you know, these gloves, but like if I never told you how big a fan I was of the comeback, oh, you were.

Today would be the time. Really, we never talked about that. I don't think so. Oh, I don't know. And the re- I have secondary clothes. Right. Issues.

And the reboot. Oh, but I, I mean. Thank you. I'm most proud. Right. Issues. And the reboot. But I, I mean. Thank you. I'm most proud of that. You should be. That was a genius show. Thank you. And I'm not an easy complimenter and I don't bullshit.

That's why I don't have people who I don't like because I'm not a good liar. Yeah. So I can't like pretend, you know, that I'm really into, you know, Danny Bonadoochi. I'm sorry, Danny, if you're listening. Actually, I'm really into, you know, Danny Bonnadoochie. Sorry, Danny, if you're listening. Actually, I'd love to have you on. I guess I have to say that. But, you know, I like Danny Bonnadoochie.

I do like, of course. God, David, why can't we get him on this show? Well? But the comeback was, yeah, that was just, I mean, I saw them all multiple times. Really? Yes. Yeah.

The... Thanks. Just everybody was... You know that the actor, I don't know his name, I don't think I ever did, who played the heavy-set writer, producer, who was mean to you. Yeah. I've seen it. Yeah, he's on Young Sheldon, he plays the father in the name.

Oh, yeah, he finally, you know, people thought stop thinking he's really mean. I was just gonna say. Barbara. He was so good. Good. And there was something about that show that was so real.

And of course, I lived that world of sitcoms too. Uh-huh. You know, but it wasn't that. I mean, it is universe. But were you on writing staffs? No. No. No. No. No. No. No. So I know that tension with the writing, especially when you're a comedian, and they kind of hired you for, to be funny, and they did use a lot of, I was on that show Sarah. Do you remember that with Gina Davis? Oh, okay.

It was 1985, and you see. Not that much before you read your... 10 years, yeah. It's a 10 year. It's a 10 year. It's a 94. We started. Right.

But wait, so they would encourage you to pitch lines and alternatives and stuff. Absolutely. And they used them. Yeah. Yeah, sure. I mean, it made their job easier. Well, they also could be insulted. I do appreciate that, though, when they do a lot. That means that they really do want the best show.

So it doesn't matter where it comes from. Because I think it's a big disaster when their ego gets in the way of wherever the great line comes from. What do you care? But I was 28 and stupid and this is my first job and I didn't sometimes get it. Like one time I remember the first run through, we always, you know, the Mondays. I remember that whole schedule. You know, you just read through. Right. And then the first time they see it on its feet, what they wrote, their first draft. Yeah.

And like, I had changed lines. And I remember Gary David Goldberg saying to me, could we hear ours once? Yeah. You know, before you tell me it's shit. I was told that too. And they. Could we hear our birthday? They're right.

But they're right. They weren't scared enough. They were so hard. Exactly. Give them their thing. That's thing, and then pitch your thing. That's amazing. It's easy courtesy, it's easy. That's why it sucks being young.

There's good reasons why it's great. Well, young, you're trying to prove yourself. And you're stupid. And you're stupid. And you're stupid. And it was just fucking stupid. And it's just, I gotta know, you gotta know that I've got good ideas before you, I don't have the opportunity to tell you. You don't know that I do. Yeah, it's stupid. And it's just, I gotta, no, you gotta know that I've got good ideas. Before you, I don't have the opportunity to tell you,

you don't know that I do. Yeah, it's stupid. Gary David Goldberg, who got that show canceled because he had a shoving match with Brendan Tartekoff at a taping. So he could be volatile. And I could have set him off. And he was always nice to me.

He never, like, for whatever reason. Sometimes you're so young and dumb that they know that they can't really hold it again. It's like blaming the dog, you know? Yeah, or they don't care. But he cared. He cared. But yeah, that show got canceled when there was this

shoving match. Can you believe that? He was at the time one of the most powerful producers in television. But was it a good show? Sarah, you know, it was what a sitcom in the 80s was. I think it was a little above average. It did pretty well in the ratings.

Oh, wow. So that is what it was. You know, Gina was coming off a couple of movies. She was very rising. Yeah. Alfred Woodard. Oh, my God. And Brun very rising... Yeah. Alfred Woodard. Oh my God. And Brunson Pinchow. Oh my God.

Or the other three, we were four lawyers and Sam Brun says, go. They felt after like half the episodes, we needed a boss. Oh. So then they brought in a boss figure. You know how they thought the networks, those kind of notes. Yeah, we... They made friends get an adult. I'm really good at it.

We're just children. And they have to like discipline. I mean, someone. I hear someone to play the part of someone who keeps us in order. Right. So God bless Martin David. Like, all right. Okay. But yeah. Yeah. And there was a neighbor with David, like, all right. Okay. But yeah. Yeah, and there was a neighbor with a kid

so they could get a kid in the show, but that was sort of shoe-worn day. Because kids always make shows fly. Yeah, I had to. Well, I guess they did, because for the longest time, didn't every show have to have a kid. I remember.

Yeah, but you have to have great kids. I mean, Rosanne had great kids. Sarah Gilbert was so great. Yeah. They were great those kids. They were really, truly funny. I remember after I did that sitcom, and then I did a one on showtime called Hard Knox. Well, that sounds familiar.

And then I did one with Sam Kinnison in 1990. And then, really? Yeah, it was very short-lived. And he was on heroin, so it didn't really work. Shoot. But, um... Should have been called, shoot. Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha.

Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha. God rest his all that sound. But I remember there was also a period there like 89, 90, 90, 90 when I was like, I'd done a few of these sitcoms so I was like pitching, I was at that point where you pitch your own sometimes. And you know, they would, you get the notes and I did had to deal with Fox. I remember I went to the something they had like where they were showing the advertisers, the new shows or some shit. Yeah, the upfront. Yeah, but it wasn't, must have been like some of them weren't picked up yet. Okay. And this was one of them. Would

you buy ads for this? Right. It was one of those. And apparently they were like, no, we would not. We would not sell toothpaste. It was called Bill Getzel Life. And really, I couldn't make that up. And yeah, they were like, there was that you need a kid discussion. For you?

Yes. For Bill Getzel Life, Bill Marr needs a kid in the show. It was just like we worked with a network. They're paying us. We have to pretend we know something and are doing something. Wait, did you write it too? Did you write the pilot? pilot? I worked, it was Gary Shandling had a production deal. Yeah. And we had the same manager and so like it was it we worked on it together the pilot. Okay. And then I mean I wrote a bunch of other episodes just hoping they would pick it up but it didn't. But of course, it was never my calling, as it is, was yours to act. Yeah, well, well.

Do you know Gary Shan, I was so in awe of Gary Shanling, of course. And I was brought into audition for Larry Sanders before it was on, like, a pilot. And I was so excited. Jeanine Garoflo's role. Yeah, I don't remember the character's name. And, you know, I came in and I was just sort of being me. I wish I could remember exactly.

I think this was it. He said, Gary said, so we're gonna read this together. And he was being funny, which was funny. And I just said, oh, okay. So I'm not reading it alone. All right. And he just went, yeah, okay. And we read it.

And then, I was a chitchatty because I knew for auditions. You're not there to make friends. Right. You know, he's going to do that. I'll just respond with a joke. Same, you know, but maybe a little too dry, you know. And then, and I why?

And I left. And I'm walking down to a very long hall. And I hear the door open. And he's peeking out, looking really scared, like, to make sure that I'm walking down to a very long hall, and I hear the door open, and he's peeking out looking really scared, like to make sure that I'm leaving the building. And I'm like, I don't know. And I'm kind of smiling like, he's so funny, we're still doing our bit.

And he's like, we will call. We will, we really will call. And I'm like, all right. And I keep going, and I'm like, it wasn't a bit. He's really scared of me. Oh my God, I was too dry. I didn't wink enough at, you know, the bit had nothing to do with the scene.

Well, like whatever I did, like just joking back, it was, didn't work. I mean, I hated it. Can you imagine? Because I've loved him so much. It's like, wouldn't it mean so much that Gary Shanling thinks I'm funny? And then-

Sure Gary Shanling thought you were. There's no way in the world, oh please. No, it was it was so surreal. He's a quirky guy. I mean, you're describing us a moment in time. And with a quirky guy like Gary Shanling, I loved him. But yes, a little unpredictable. At any given moment, I mean, we had a moment working on that thing together that was

highly unpleasant. Oh. It happens in show business. People cross, and again, young. Listen, I just thought of this, you know, how stupid I could have been in a room. When I first auditioned out here, I didn't understand that the producers, and it's just that producers were the writers. Well, me neither.

Okay, so I read for the two producers, and then I go, who wrote this shit? Yeah. Oh. Oh. I swear to God, that happened. Oh, my God. I know, and I limped it down the tail. I mean I know. And I limp to tell the tale.

I mean, like, many times I feel like I could have, like, I'm sorry, that is stupid. So stupid. Because even if they're not the writers, they're still producing it. I know. So it's not like someone's got a gun to their head to produce it. I just, again, and I bet you a lot of people in America

can relate to this. The word producer is very fuzzy. It kind of still is for us because it's like, it couldn't really mean anything. So I kind of had in my head producer, you know, Dory Sherry, you know, you know, right, phone, you know, like,

hello, I'm here from Galactic Pictures. And I'd like to see that audition from Bill Maude. That was the producer. Not the writers. The writers were scribes, you know, they were like guys in two shirts. And so I just thought, oh, these are the producers. And they probably think they must know that this is shit. It's so funny. I know I was tempted at times so that they would know that I know that it's no good.

Like, what does that get you? It doesn't get you anywhere. But to this day, when someone says they're a producer, I still have 500 questions, like a concierge, or like a writer, what form does your role as producer take? Is it creative at all? Or are you a line producer? Like you actually get the show done like. Right. No. It's so.

It's almost anything. And then of course it gets muddy even more because the inflation of the title that anyone who is anything on the show, I've seen 20 producer people. And I know these are the writers. They just want a producer credit because then you're in that union or it's all that kind of bullshit. So we don't know what. Well, it's a promotion. And then you're working your way up to executive producer. Once you get executive producer,

they can trust you to create a show, maybe run a show. Right, but people get a- And get a piece of the show. But you can read a- You're headed for. You can read a piece of the show. But you can read a... You're headed for. You can read a name on a screen. And it's all it says is produced by, and it's somebody, and that is a straight-up writer.

Right. That person does no producing, they are just on a writing staff doing the writing. Yeah, I wonder how that happened. Because the title is worth something. It's like a tap Italian. It's a union, even Because the title is worth something. It's like a tabbed medallion. It's a union even allowed. The title, you know, like there's the producers guild, right?

And there's the writers guild. Like how was it allowed? That's what. How come you can't just say I'm a director, too? That's what agents. You know, there's no crossover there. We are supported by SignalWire. If you're a developer or a product builder trying to add video communication to your app

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Wait, I have to tell you something. Yes. To it. No, no, you said something once and it made it, it was, it was a huge, it was a geological shift for me. With regards to the comeback, because we had gotten canceled and I didn't feel bad about it, because I felt like, well, someone made a mistake. And that's their mistake. We did the best show we could. Someone didn't like it or, I don't feel bad about it, because I felt like, well, someone made a mistake. And that's their mistake. We did the best show we could.

Someone didn't like it or I don't know what. Nothing, I can do about that. I'm just proud of what we did. Honestly, I felt fine. And then people kept saying, especially business people, I'm getting to you. But business, like executive types, or people who ran networks that I happened to know would say, what happened with ratings bad? No, they

were the same if not better than entourage that started the, you know, season before. I, well, it must have been something. I said, I don't know. Michael thought maybe because, you know, when I have a point of, point of reference for a woman in that role, you know, and that's what it is. That's what it is. Wait, wait, I don't understand that. What does that mean? Point of reference for a woman. For a woman who is... The lead is a woman. Not just the lead, but flawed and having that kind of ego and being humiliated. We were too flawed. And well, you know, setting herself up for humiliation, kept stepping into that.

So, but, and I couldn't, I was like, yeah, that's fine. How is that though? And how could I forget? Is that possibly it? Then you said something. I was watching your show. And it wasn't related. It was just that you were talking about someone made a joke at the expense of, you know, someone

who's, you know, from a marginalized group. And I don't remember specifically what it was. And you said, come on. You know, I'm all for humor as humor. And it should be allowed, okay? But you don't make fun of the victim, you know? That's not gonna work. And that's when Penny dropped and I went,

"'Cause women are not the people in power. They're not like the white guy in power and women are kind of that marginalized group. It really bothered a lot of people to watch a woman get humiliated all the time. I feel like that's a casualty of an audience that was, I'm sorry, the people who didn't get it or just not sophisticated enough to appreciate it. And that's fine. There are things I am unsophisticated in and I do not sophisticated enough to appreciate it. And that's fine, there are things I'm unsophisticated in, and I do not appreciate hockey, for example.

Yeah. Okay. And others, I'm stupid like watching, like murky thriller mystery types. That's when I need a girlfriend. That's, you know, someone who I'm always watching and movie with, like, honey, what happened there with the guy? Oh, that's the same guy. Oh, I didn't see that where he put the paper to. You know, that's where a girlfriend would be good. Or anyone watching

it. That's the thing. That's the thing I'm alone the guy. I'm just saying, the kind of person you're watching movies with and you can always ask. But, so we're all dim in our own ways, but they're missing, like that is the, what's genius about that character is that, you know, she, that's what's funny. I mean, you're not following, I mean. Like you're not saying the difference between a man behaving like that

and a woman behaving like that. It's like that's how people who are driven towards something like the spotlight. Yeah, they're just made no. I don't think that's what it was. You don't? No, because I think everybody, I think that's what would make it very relatable because the subject matter is very specific. That is where you lost people because it's like, what is this world?

To us, it's our world. But, and also the level of subtlety in the comedy that you were working with is something that that's what made me love this show so much and watching multiple times because the level of the subtlety. But that's my business or my mind or whatever. Many people, that kind of subtlety is just not in the realm of possibility for them to appreciate.

Yeah. I don't mean that as a put that. I just mean, no, no. I'll give you an example. Let me give you an example of a scene. You were talking the gay makeup guy. Yeah, Mickey. Mickey.

Yeah, it's okay. You run into this other guy. And you're asking about some other friend. I mean, I think they were both gay and so that was in the mix of the scene. And it was so brilliant because you never enunciated what we were thinking and yet we knew what was because they tell you they give you this piece of information. Oh, no, he died. And you react.

You never say the word aid. Right. But you're like, oh, and then he goes, oh no, he was hit by a car crossing bar room. And you go, oh, good, not good. Right. And like encapsulated in that 13 seconds of genius comedy. That's how you know she thought it was AIDS. So much.

But without ever saying it, to me that is the genius of that show. I also see how other people go. What was that conversation? Why is that funny? Right? Yeah. And that's, I have the same sort of issue with stuff. I mean, one reason I started this podcast is because lots of people just are not interested

in politics or what's really, you know, that kind of stuff at all. They're interested in more human stuff that they are relatable to everybody's lives. They don't want to hear about Ukraine and the UN and the fucking ACLU and abortion and that's fine and they never will and I will never get them But this anybody can listen to this. Yeah Because you just want to entertain I just want to get high with you That's what I want really that's what I want to do But I do just want to entertain honestly. I mean, I do think there is not entertain. That makes me sound like ginger from Gilligan's Island.

Oh, no. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Yeah, no, I don't. But I do think it's really necessary. Sweetheart, you don't have to fucking convince me on that one. I am all about the idea that we're all just in entertainment. We use different clay.

You know, I don't see my people bill, you're a pundit. Well, you know, I think I am selling wisdom out there. Yes, I think the country's fucking dumb and they do need me to straighten it out. And I'm not gonna lie about that. But I, if I, my main thing is I'm entertaining. And if I'm not, I'm nothing. Because that's how I look at this

shit. If you don't entertain me, we did a funny thing about a year ago, and not this Oscar batch, but the one before was just incredibly legubrious. You know, Minari and the Nomad land, and it was just Debbie Downer time. And we did all, it was funny, like, come on, it's got to be a little entertaining. Yes, we understand there are issues, but Hollywood did use to know how to take an issue, but also make it not just sad. So when you say you're out to entertain, you had me in hello with that one. Yeah. Well, I think everyone needs a break.

I mean, that's what everyone wants. Really badly. They really want a break. But by the way, your show, there's no, you have no agenda. You're just a very funny person, and you're being really honest about what and brave, about what you think, about things and how you feel, about how people respond to what you think too. Like, you know, like, you know, I actually said like, you know, but...

Yeah, and... No, and there's a lot of value in that. There's a lot of value in that. But we both think. I think have these kind of careers where we got the memo fairly early on. There was somewhat of a ceiling for us. Yeah. And the ceiling created by the fact that, you know, there are levels of subtlety that, you know, everybody can go and enjoy what's the, um, top got.

Uh-huh. Right. Right. I mean, it's a billion dollar opening and a billion people will see it. We're not playing in that. No. I don't see. Yeah.

And we don't, can't imagine. We can't, and we don't, We really don't even want it, right? I can't imagine anyone asking me to be in. Well, yeah, you'd Maverick 3 or whatever, you know. You know it would be great. I see, you wouldn't fucking steal that. And also make it would be so great if they actually did that. Or you were in a meeting.

I know, but who's going, wait, are you 60 as? No, no, no. Because it would be great. But you don't look anyone you're 60. Oh, good. Yeah, you look great. Thank you. You always did. Thank you.

I always thought you, I mean, I always had a little crush on you one, friends, because I thought you were the smart one on your show. And I like, and I was quite frankly the smart one on my show. Wait, I was the only one on the show. Wait, I was the only one on the show. But which makes you the smartest one you're showing. But I mean, not that everybody on this show wasn't smart, they were all smart, everybody smart. Yeah, they are.

Well, but they are. They are. They really are. Yeah, and they're all good. Learned a lot from them. Yeah, but I would say even they probably would agree. If you had to vote for who's the smartest, it would probably be you.

The smartest. Who is the smartest. Who's the one that drones on and on about things we don't wanna talk about? Who's the one that has a theory about something? Is that what you did? Yeah. Really? Oh, I always, I'm always like,

what's my theory behind that, you know? But you have a lot of time to kill while they're setting up and shit right that's what I remember she'll but I would bring up you know look well no i'm watching CNN you gotta see what's happening here it's very important and you know they didn't want to get into that okay yeah no i'll be i'll be back will you tell me what happened yeah what were they talking about um things that people talk about i mean other Yes, that of course you were in the 20s.

But not as long as I'm not me. I was 30 when we started it. 30, haha. 30s. Same thing. Yeah, but yeah, but people in their 20s generally tend to be more, you know, first of all sort of like naval gazing. I mean, it's like your first, I would say you're born twice in life, once when you're actually born, what? I'm going to- That's calling me. Oh, on your phone? I mean, on your watch?

Oh, for fuck's sake, I can't even- I've dismissed it. No, no, no, I just don't, I've never seen anybody like get a call on their watch. Cause my phone's just right there. But what, I know that- So it rings on here. But why do you need- I don't know, that's not why I have anybody like get a call on their watch. Because my phone's just right there. But what, I know that. So it rings on here. But why do you need, I don't know, that's not why I have it.

That extra layer of, That's not why I have it. Why do you have it? I like to know what time it is. I, I, I, I, I, I, I, But you didn't have to get a watch that hooked up to your phone. And it also tells me, you know, if I've taken any steps today,

or was I just sitting in my chair all day but your brain knows that not anymore bill. What are you saying you're an android you like you know that you know that you know it recurs well. No. Oh he's a author. They won't they it's really important I guess. It is all right I'll let you get out of here if you need to.

He's an amazing thinker and scientist and professor. And he's been pretty good a lot of amazing things, like down to the year, like the fall of the Soviet Union. Oh, wow. But he has a book called The Singularity, which says, in 2028, man and machine will basically become, I mean, that's only six years away.

Now, of course, we are already part way there. People do have parts in them that are machine parts. Yes, with computers in it, some of them even. Yes. So, with things that communicate with users. As you and I are punching old age in the mouth Do you is this something that like? You would consider like cuz I sure would really well, I mean if I could just keep my brain and my dick

The rest of it you can fucking replace You're too favorite. No, that's really kind of true. But they have a sibling rivalry. Oh, why argue? He's always gonna win. But still, that's pretty good. Yeah, that is pretty good.

We'll be right back. No. Do you have to take your call? I mean, no. Absolutely not. Okay, all right. I mean, I know. No, absolutely not. OK, all right. I know. I'm just so grateful.

I'm just grateful. Yeah, grateful. I was just on and out. Wait, can I ask you one question? Yes. Can you ask me anything? We're sitting around drinking. What was, what, what field of history?

What were you studying? Well, I was at Cornell. And I was trying to establish that. I knew I loved history. I taught myself American history. Could name all the American presidents in a row if you forced me to. Not because I have a member,

I was just because I know the history. I think I could. Anyway, so I did love Medieval. That really called to me. I mean, this is before computers, so we were in the stacks. You know, the library. I loved the stacks. You know, the stacks. See, you're this Marwan.

You're in the stacks. The girl in the stacks. That'd be a good romantic song or movie that I'll never write. But so... That's the Girl in the Stacks, everybody. I'll see you tomorrow night. It's kind of sexy, that title. Girl in the Stacks?

Yeah. But it would have to be a period piece because there's no more stuff. No. But I remember being in there, these dusty old books, and I was writing some paper on something in the medieval period, and the professor, I'm just was writing some paper on something in the medieval period. And the professor, I'm talking about the paper or something, and he said, I asked him a question and he said, well, it doesn't matter. You know, at this point, there's really nothing new you could add to this.

And I'm like, then what the fuck am I doing with this as a major? Now mind you, I knew I was going gonna be a comedian when I was 10. Oh, okay. So when I was at college, I really wasn't trying to get a degree that would get me a job. I knew what I was gonna do. Okay. You know, go and, like.

So the grades weren't, you weren't out for, I got to get an A. No, but I did anyway. I was always a student. Wow. I was a straight-age student in high school. I missed one day of high school. Wow. I was a straight-age student in high school. That's cool. I missed one day of high school. Wow.

COVID. And, and no, but I love the subject. If I had like a 28-hour day, I would spend two of them reading history. Wow. I don't agree with that professor though. There's no such thing. But it was discouraging. Right. How are you to know then? Because I got to say that. I was younger than when I was the idiot who wrote this. You can make it out stupid. I was that. Well.

No. It's almost beyond. No, but because I've got to say, doing who do you think you are and the historians, you know, that give us context where whatever the person is looking at, there's so many, there are different interpretations of history. So my question is, so would you read different historians who had differing opinions about certain events? Well, there's always someone who wants to be a revisionist. Based on new letters they found, new information.

Just based on they have to publish something. Okay, yeah, that's a problem too. That's a lot of what academia is such a scuzzy area. I know it's people, I'm sure there's plenty of professors now like dropping their pipes. How dare you? Yes, I'm sure there's exceptions and yes, we need colleges and universities. But a lot of it is, they know this better than anybody,

political and what you publish. And yes, sometimes you just have to find, I don't think that professor was wrong when he said that. If I was researching the venerable bead or somebody who lived in 690 in Lindisfarne in the monastery, no, we're not going to find anything new about this motherfucker. Anything that came out about this guy, we know, I think. There's no more venerable-bead stuff that's... TMZ is not going to come out tomorrow.

But it's a story about the venerable-bead. Well, no TMZ won't. But who knows? Okay. Sometimes there's a letter, there's something somewhere. But even without that, it's just, I don't know. And then you have archaeology where they find new things about how people were using it

or what they were eating. Well, that's it. If someone was poisoned or... Well, that doesn't happen that often, that can. But where that does happen a lot, of course, is in early man history. That is always changing because they don't have the complete fossil record at all. They have pieces here and pieces there. Don't get me started on the fossil record.

No, evolutionary biology was what I was interested in. Before comedy? Yeah. Before comedy. Yeah, that's what I was studying in school. Well, that's why I always thought for your genealogy show, you should have on Lucy. Okay.

Lucy. Yeah, the very first. Who better? But not the very first anymore, I don't think. Well, early. Early. I'm related to where I think. We're all related to her.

Ha ha ha. Who was it? I don't know. Tell the audience who Lucy is. Early early. I'm related to her I think we're all related to her Who I don't know tell the audience who Lucy is Lucy was about well, I don't know when I don't have the detail Two point five million years ago. That's it. Yes Lucy Lucy was about four feet tall and I lived about two and a half million years ago, and is one of our direct ancestors. Humans came along, you know, like 200,000 years ago, and of course we are not the only human species. We wiped the other ones out. You know, wherever you've read the great book, Sapiens, oh, that's, you love that.

That is a book for you. Oh, that's you love that. No, I didn't. That is a book for you. You'd love that book. Okay. Because it talks about, well, many things about sapiens, but one, wherever humans went, the fossil record is very clear. We killed everything, including the other human species. Yeah.

And the other big animal species. Like, there's a whole bunch of species, for example, in Australia, and then humans arrive. And a thousand years later, we don't have any fossils from those big animals. They just fucking killed them all. Like the way the people killed the buffalo in our American West. Just for fun. And just like... Well, for fun. They're food, too. They could... Food, but they killed a lot of buffalo just because, I mean, they would just, they would have a herd and they would just, too many to use. The Indians, of course, used all the buffalo.

We were the opposite. And we're still those assholes. Yeah. That's right. When, when are we going to stop being surprised? Well, I mean, they used to it. No, that's not the right attitude. And it's not funny enough to say.

But... Well, I mean, not to look all humans are shitty people. You know, it's not that it's like Indians didn't do shitty things, too, to each other. If, yeah, if feeling insecure enough and scared enough, I think humans become really shitty. But I think when there's a crisis or a need for people to come together and help each other, they do to be cooperative. I think they do.

When it feels in, when it's imminent. Well, some do and some take advantage of the situation. Yeah. Maybe take advantage. Some do. But then Sheriff Taylor runs them out of town. So it's okay. Is that where you're getting this? That was a great lesson teaching show.

There you go. It should be great. I was just going to say, remember when you'd watch a show and there was always, you knew that the right thing would happen in the end. And I missed that. There was a great classic episode of, not what was it called, Mayberry, may it? Oh, no, I can't remember.

I mean, the town was Mayberry. What was it called, Mayberry RFD? Or welcome to Mayberry? The Andy Griffiths show. The Andy Griffiths show. The Andy Griffiths, exactly. You know why? We can't follow like... Right.

The Andy Griffiths. That's what it is. That's what it is. I watched it in reruns when I was a kid, when I was homesick, and I loved it. Two. So there was an episode where Opie Ron Howard, of course, to be the great director Ron Howard, he kills a bird with a slingshot.

And then he's trying to teach him a lesson where he shouldn't have done that. And he's the Opie's complaining about the bird chirping. And he said, yeah, well, I'll be just complaining about the bird chirping. And he said, yeah, well, I'm not going to shoot that bird away. That's that bird calling for his mom on. I'm going to let you hear how sad she is. Wow. So, I don't know why that, you know, why that one stuck in my memory that episode. But it may have been why I joined PETA in the 90s.

I've been a PETA board member all these years. You know? Yeah. No, but it's also, it's right. And it's kind of sophisticated. Because it's very easy to say, all right, you killed the bird. You didn't have to do that. But yeah, all right.

I mean, because that's how a lot of people felt like, it's a bird. It's not conscious being like we are. Right. Did you know HBO Max had podcasts? I'm on my podcast, talking about the podcasts on my network. This must be what the metaverse feels like. Now go even deeper inside your favorite shows with audio

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people are contributing. You know, I don't mean demonstrated every day, show appreciation and not saying, what the fuck you did it wrong? You know, you don't talk to someone like that. Is that what your experience has been on sets? Yeah. Yeah. Not to me personally, but I've seen it. Yes, but sets are tense places. But they don't have to be. No. Well, they're less tense. No, it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's it's You're paid more than most people, a lot more. Okay. You're up on a higher wire. Like if you fuck up, it can be in front of millions instead of just three people, right?

Yeah. What's at stake on a film set, you know, a film is very often, you know, $150 million startup industry. That's really how it's a quick startup industry. That's investing $150 million startup industry. That's really how it's a quick startup industry. That's investing $150 million. If you were making widgets, it's like, boy, we better sell some of these widgets, and it could fail.

Yeah, it could. Yeah, so people are tens. And I've never seen any sort of set where there wasn't some sort of blow up or people going nuts. I mean, we see some of them on film. We've seen actors and directors and go nuts. From a while ago.

I've had it happen to me personally on a set, like just screamed at by someone for no good reason. Right. And then how did it go after that? That's a sitcom that would not the one I've talked about before, but the other one that it was quickly canceled. But yeah. No, but it's just...

Yeah, it's rough. Well, yeah. It doesn't have, but it doesn't. It's not necessary. It's not, you know, you handed me the wrong instrument for this brain surgery. That's not what it is. Right. It's not in the moment like a death. It's digital.

It's not even film. We can do the take again. But show people. We have editors. Everyone has, and your best work comes when you're just a little more relaxed. You know you have like a nervous energy, but it doesn't have to be an angry energy. You know what I mean? It's just... Yeah, I mean, but again, it's hard to get the very talented people without their fucking quirks. Show people just... Everything about them is exaggerated. You know, they're very often exaggeratedly good looking, temperamental, you know, my friend always says, insanity photographs. You know, they're crazy people,

but something about that is also charismatic and you can't take your eyes off it. Or honest, because they can't help themselves. Sometimes, yes, Trump's that way. You know, he's he can't help revealing himself. Yeah. So you're not I don't know if you're ever going to have this utopia where you have the really talented people and they're not crazy and there's going on. It's a crazy business. You know, okay. I mean, I know plenty of talented people that are not crazy.

Are you great? And if you have the choice to work with them, you should. Yeah. But there might be a- But there's less tolerance for the ones that act out and misbehave and make it a miserable experience. Yeah. And to me, that's a good thing.

Yeah, unless they make a fortune. If the thing makes a fortune because of that person, they're going to put up with an amazing amount of shame. But you're saying, I mean, I don't know that I agree that a person's difficult, you know, punishing side of them is what makes them talented. I think maybe they think it is, but I don't think it is. I really don't. I'm just saying they trust that they've just got it and you don't have to panic or worry over it. I'm just saying, I don't think they're separable, you know, like watching the Johnny Depp trial. I mean, some of the things he was doing, passing out and throwing plates and, you know.

Throwing places. That's right. You know, calling her a cunt and this and that, are not model behavior. But the jury forgave him because he's wildly charismatic. I don't know if you can separate this two things. He's wildly charismatic. I don't know if you can separate this two things. He's a nut. He always wasn't nut.

Insanity photographs. It works on camera. And if you took away the insanity, I think you'd have Richard Greco. No, I said, wait, who? He was this Richard Greco. No, I did not. Oh, now I got it.

No, man, man, daddy, but a different trio. I got so many people, man. I mean, he was a very, very good-looking actor on a, you know, like, one of those shows like 21 Jump Street, or, you know, he had a minute there where he was the hit boy. Yeah, I was watching TV at that time. But it didn't quite, you know, I would it didn't quite, I'm sure there are people who bet money on Richard Rico and not Johnny Tepp. And after that trial, I bet your Richard Rico was like, boy, I dodged a bullet there.

Yeah, that was brilliant. All right, I'll let you go back to your life in the wild. And you need to find another clothes, cigarette. Oh, I got him right here. Oh, it's a pretty case. I know. I found it so sophisticated. I have a little... It is. It's really elegant.

Yes. Very nice. Medea. No. No, thank you. Well, thank you. This was more fun than I could tell you. And I'm so flattered that you just did it. Yeah, that was nice. Because you need me like a whole new head.

What? That's how I feel about you, you're you. No, you know that's a big difference. Don't make me go through other parts of the comeback. Yeah, but meanwhile, by the way, I brought that whole thing up for a reason was because it made sense to me, like for the first time, when you, and I was like, so,

I'm good. Because the people that I had talked to thinking, they see women as victims, and it never dawned on me. Just like it never dawned on you that, you know. But that was. It never dawned on me. And I went shit. But that character was so much more than just that. I mean, that was certainly the muguffin that gets the character going. I mean, that, that, I mean, but again, I think that's all that's what was relatable. We've all been the person who thinks they're going to be cast as the young hot one, not literally, but in life.

But really is going to be the shrumpy ant with the catch phrase. I mean, that alone, you know, should have won you all the awards because that was just so perfect. And certainly everybody in showbiz knows it, but in life it happens too. Yes, no, we had to. There are plenty of people in other industries that went towards you. I mean, you think you're gonna, and they don't, they see you as this. And the way she smiled through it all, you know, the way she... How about that?

She never let it get them down. I mean, she never let that... Having said, guy, who I'm still afraid of. Polly G. Oh, I did not like him. I remember one time he was getting blown when you walked in and... Oh, it was just... Everything was just terrible about him.

He still scares me. He should have been on Oz. Oh, so funny. He was so scary, but like, he would never, you would never get bitter, you know? You would never, you would just soldier on it. Just keep going. Yes. Yeah.

I find that so much more inspiring than, you know. I think it has to do with how like how you see things Because for some people it was like she's just got humiliated at every turn and for other people is like no She just kept going she just kept saying yeah, I clock that I won't have it. I'm gonna create my own reality Here we go and then they didn't they were nice enough to somebody was smart enough to do it again. Yeah, that was fun A third time maybe yeah, it was nice enough that somebody was smart enough to do it again. Yeah, that was fun. A third time? Maybe.

Yeah. It's been nine years since then, so maybe. It's a... I mean, that character is... I know. I slip into her so easily. I mean, there are people who have done, you know, as through time they've done it, the same character. They just picked it up.

It's, you know yeah Alan Partridge yeah yeah thank you down the mic's wrong all right that was fun thank I got to know you. Me too. I love it. Good. The podcast. Club right now.