Club Random with Bill Maher - Oliver Stone | Club Random with Bill Maher

Episode Date: November 19, 2023

Bill and Oliver Stone on what Putin and Bill have in common, how Oliver never met a conspiracy he didn’t like, the veracity of the last election, the one famous person Oliver couldn’t make a movie about, the problems caused by the mistreatment of animals, why Oliver loves Russia, Oliver’s personal heroes, which culture hurt the world the most, the world leader most like a Bond villain, Oliver’s heartbreak about the movie Nixon, and why Oliver had to go in the back door of The White House.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Well, they wanted Nicholson and they wanted Warren Betty and wrong wrong. I know I'm there's a way to do to get actors It was harder to get the financing I could drink pity and we could drink it's a bug. It's got the radio activity of a banana. I think you have been drinking it I'm going to I'm gonna bring it to you It's great to be on by the way you're looking fantastic. Oh, it can be a break. What? You're older than, yes, we're always on. OK.

That's what I'm telling you. I want to say thank you. It's nice to see you again. It's been a long time. No, I know. We've had some great moments. Yeah, we have. I mean, many years.

And from politically incorrect, remember that sign? Yeah, when you were on that show? I enjoyed that. I was, oh my God. I have some memories of you on that show. You were on ones, stop me for you. You were like, it just showed me what a master of like the visual art you are.

You, this was probably early 90s. And you were, you showed, I don't think you'd slept the night before. I think you'd tell me that. You're probably like up all night working on one of your brilliant scripts. There's, you know, I mean, it was the 90s. And you looked like shit, but you had a, like a handkerchief and like, you were sweating, but then you'd like,

and when the camera was on you, you looked perfect and you sounded brilliant. You're really flattering. It's so true. You probably hadn't been to bed that night because it was, again, that's what we did back then. I don't know. I think we talked about which one, JFK, or maybe it was born on the fourth.

I don't remember. You had me on several times. Oh, yeah. And you had me on with the panel too, a couple, I don't know. Well, that show was all panel. Yeah, but I was a single guest on one of them. Okay, yes, we did someone on one, that's true.

And then I was on again recently, and then I think you were pissed at me because I gave you some shit. I have never been pissed at you, sweetheart. If I had to make a list of like my hundred favorite movies, there'd be like only a few directors that had like 10 of theirs on the list,

you would be one of them. Really? Well, I mean, I'm not gonna go through or accept the trouble then. No, you know that. I mean, there was never a question. I mean, your politics in mind don't always meet or mesh.

Who knows what yours are? Well, I say it every weekend television. Everybody knows who you're new rules. But you make up new rules when you want. Okay, you don't know what I do. You don't watch my show. You're talking about your shoes. There you go.

See, well, already I quote you, I'm sorry I'm not honest. I shouldn't have done that. I should make you be honest. It's sorry. I'm not even honest. Yes, I made you be honest. It's fine. I'd rather have honesty. I saw this. I saw Bobby Kennedy.

Like to show. It's pretty straight. Bobby Kennedy, unreal time. No, he was on this. RFK Jr. Yes, he was on the podcast. I saw that and I saw the one with Woody, which was hilarious, but a little sloppy.

Well, I hope. And if we did it right, I mean, you Woody, which was hilarious. Yes. But a little sloppy. Well, I hope. And if we did it right, I mean, you know, Woody and me. Well, I was curious. I was making a movie here. No, because to be a perfectionist in every movie with Woody, it seemed like a time you had to encoke some footage. He was just being Woody, you know, and he was just... That one was coaxing or thinking or doing anything.

That's the beauty of this show. We just start. We don't think we or doing anything, that's the beauty of this show. We just start. We don't think, we don't think. That's the question. It's like, what you're always thinking though, you always had a little camera in your brain. You do.

I do. I do. I do. I guess. No, just you. It's, that's why you're a director. But I'm not, and I don't want to be. I mean, that's too much mental energy going. I love it that I can do anything where I'm in the moment.

I'm totally in the moment here in a way I can't quite be on real time. You're doing, you're hang out routine. Yes, I'm doing what I do if I wasn't. This is a hangout. Yeah, this is definitely a hangout. So this is gonna be the most. And the best part of it is that I get to hang out with you

and all these great people who like if we weren't working, we wouldn't probably hang out. Although we've had dinner, but we just hate to have our own lives. I'm just glad that something that forces somebody like you who I admire so much to sit down, you know. Yeah, but you had purpose of this club random show. Is it not, I guess what I'm trying to say is, you know that this business is kind of a

business. It's a show business. Yeah. So at a certain point, you always know a show business. So you know, are you really in your living room, you know, doing the mic, Edward Armouro routine? You know, you're relaxed and all that. Right. Well, no, because he had a cameraman like over there, and, you know, so people were, this is trying to fool you a little more now. You are not someone I can fool. Unfortunately. But I've had some very embarrassing moments in TV. You know, because that stuff I do is,

it's raw, and sometimes it gets people going and they get really upset by you. And somebody will hate me before they even see me. People hate me too. Fuck them. What was embarrassing? You said embarrassing. I had some bad shows. Yeah.

What was embarrassing? I was on that guy, Colbert. Colbert. Because he hadn't bothered to fucking see the four-hour documentary that I had done. Right. And worked on for almost a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a and a year and a year and a year and a year and a year and a and a year and a year and a year and a and a year and a year and a and a year and a and a year and a year and a and a and a year and a and a year and a and a year and a and a year and a year and a year and a and a year and a and a and a and a and a and a almost a year and bought a scene. They only did what I want to criticize my subject. You're talking about the untold history that I had stayed.

No, not the untold history. It was the Putin music. He hadn't even bothered with it. So he was like, he hated Putin for whatever. This was a few years ago. He hated the radio. Well, I did see your documentary and I still hate Putin. I mean, it didn't convince me, sorry, that, you know, I'm not trying to convince you because

you are who you are. But I was, well, that's kind of a back end and you are who you are, a person of limited intelligence who couldn't possibly understand this. That's really the implication. Well, you should listen to him. He's got a lot of many, many points. But that's not the place to start This is your show. I'm starting no no it's no show. I'm there's no starting or ending It's just what if we were a dinner would we like be planning this and go. Oh, let's not start with Putin

He came up in conversation. I'm sure you see that was uncomfortable on that show because his audience loves him and their cheering every fucking thing The guy says and you know hissing practically at anything. I said I mean it wasn't even a reasonable legitimate debate. It was just like, do you know that I haven't seen the film and blah blah blah. Oh no, that's un that's un pardonable I agree. But especially your films, especially with what you have earned, that means a lot in show business. Who is your second movie? Okay, but you've earned that respect of like,

watch that guy. You don't do that to Oliver Stone. Thank you. Yes, and I will say this about Putin. He and I have something in common. Can you guess what it is? I'll solve it for you. We both get up late.

Yeah. Do you know that he's a late riser? Yeah. You did know that, of course you know. Well, I never saw him early in the morning. No, but he's because he doesn't get up. No, did I ever see Castro that early? Putin has a t-shirt that's, don't talk to me until I poison someone's coffee. Oh, you know, he doesn't poison people.

Come on, man. Let's not start there. Okay. Oh, you know, he doesn't poison people. Come on, man. Let's not start there. Okay. I think there's a lot of things, accusations that get thrown out, you know. And I think you have to weigh that against Western media and what they say. You mean all those people fill out a window? I mean, you really, you can't, is this starting the wrong place?

No, we're not, okay, but... Look him back to this. Okay. Oh, you're not scared of COVID. That's good. Why would I be scared of COVID? No, not that I have it. No, but, you know, well, because we have created a whole generation of germophobes.

Who are? Why? Because of COVID, because they were, well, I mean, if you raise kids as hot house plants anyway, which we were doing for the last 15, 20 God knows how many years, but if you coddle them and over protect them and helicopter parent and bulldoze parent them and try to keep everything dangerous and everything is about safety and God don't go out of the house because there's germs and okay, if men you introduce something that really is somewhat frightening, somewhat frightening,

you know, whenever I see someone with a mask outside walking alone, they're always like 22 years old. The people who least likely to be filled by this, and they're the ones who were paranoid about it. I mean, if something's going around, I understand. It was a very bad period. I didn't enjoy it. I traveled a lot. who were paranoid about it. I mean, if something's going around, I understand. It was a very bad period. I didn't enjoy it. I traveled a lot.

I was doing a lot of work abroad in Russia. And during the pandemic? Yeah, it was about two, three years of it. No, we were traveling freely. And I actually got my first shot. I'm the typical confuse about COVID completely. No, no, no, no. That was, I was confused because my first shot, I'm the typical, I'm confused about COVID, completely, no, no, that wasn't, I was confused because my first shot I got in Russia, it was a vaccine, and it was based on the, they dealt with the previous, what was the avian flu or something like that.

They had a vaccine. Yeah, they had a vaccine right away, you've got it. And I got it. And it was working, it was fine. I came back to the West. They wouldn't let me back into the EU without getting another one. A pharmaceutical one from the US. I think if they thought the Russian one was no good. Yeah, exactly. Insulting as usual. So I took the money. Well, I mean, that's not, come on Russia. Oh, it's not a big boy country in a lot of ways

like that. I mean, they have very good medicines when it comes to stuff like this. They're very advanced. They look like a bunch of gangsters and tracksuits. Oh, God. You're asking like Colbert now. No, but let's even Colbert and I probably agree on Russia and Putin. Well, I mean, you're the outlier. Yeah, okay.

And you know, anyone can do that. Anyway, I get in my first shot there. It worked. No nonsense. And they have a beautiful clinic there that does a lot of work. And they're very good. And they're very efficient. They came up with the first vaccine, actually, before us. And then I got, I had to get the, one of them, Moderna,

some like that, the Pfizer, to get into the EU. Right. And then I got COVID somewhere along the line. And that's, you know, it came after you were vaccinated. Yeah, after me too. Ever came. It came and went. It wasn't for me a big deal.

Right. Some people it is. And I know some people who really suffered. So it doesn't make any sense to me. I don't know what the fuck happened. Then I think another booster. Well, what I'm trying to say is that they never figured it out. They don't know what. Right. It's just a jerk off. And the whole way they they don't with it. Yeah. It's massive

that if there's mass sterilization, this mass fear is typical of what I feared the most in this world is the world is kind of becoming more and more rigid like like you said. We agree on that. On that we totally agree. Yeah, it's just... And I'm fashionable. Don't want to talk words in your effort. You do agree that some vaccines are... Yeah, right. It's a case by case.

And also, it should be according to the individual. And especially after we found out that it didn't stop transmission or getting it... know getting it. I got a lot of it. Then there was no excuse for the, well you're doing it for other people. It's not doing anything for other people. So you don't have any argument now.

And then I met people who don't have it and it was fine. You never had a vaccine and they were functioning. So it's very confusing. Well many people got it and never knew they had it because like any, um, nobody knows when it was. No, it's because people with very strong immune systems, something like that comes along. And maybe one day they felt kind of down or not quite themselves or, you know, really

drag in their ass or maybe I feel like maybe I have a cold coming on, but they quickly got over it. So they felt like they never got it. And then on the other end of the scale, many people are not in good metabolic health, and so something like that comes along, and they're either killed by it or have a very rough time with it. That's what I mean, but individuals were all at different stages here. That's, it's a mystery. It's a mystery also, you know, what happened in China?

Was it a lab leak? Or was it a genuine natural market flu that came up, you know, I don't know. Would you make a movie about this subject? I feel like it's good. I'm not chasing the news, you know, and it's very, very, you're going to happen. Yeah. It's a lot of sensitivity, sir. Yeah, I'm not chasing the news, you know, and it's very, very, you're going to have a lot of sensitivity, sir. A lot of people suffered greatly, so you have to be, you know, that's a very touchy subject,

but do you think it was a lab leak? I believe it was, but I don't have any proof. Well, what I said from the very beginning is it should not even be a political question. It's a scientific question. What was the origin? Was it eating bats, which I think is way more racist, or was it a lab leak, which the woke idiots call? That's the...

Why is that racist? That in their high-tech lab, it couldn't happen anywhere. It was a dumb idea to do gain-of-function research, which is what they were doing, which was suggested by Fauci and other people. And that's a legitimate medical debate to have. Also shouldn't be political. Should we do gain of function research?

To me, it's like, I know you're big on nuclear and we're pretty much in agreement on that that we need nuclear power, but or nuclear weapons. If we have treaties about these things, if these things are so dangerous that we we can't even use them like nuclear power, certainly gain of function research is in that same realm. You know, we don't have the logic with not having nuclear plants is yeah, they're way better than regular energy, except if something goes horribly wrong, which is a valid argument. And that's the same argument with gain and function research.

Yeah, probably would be good if we knew what the virus is going to do, but it's not really worth the risk of if it gets out, which it did. And it could have been worse, and it might be next time, right? Yeah, yeah, I could get to could, there could be other epidemics, but I had polio, I had shots all that. I didn't, like you, you were born the same year. Yes. And I went along all the whole way, got all the vaccines.

Right. And I'm sure, but when I, then I started to meet people who were actually fucked up by those vaccines, like the polio, including Bobby Kennedy brings a lot of focus on this in his book. And Tony Lions published the book. Tony's daughter was got a shot for smallpox, I believe it wasn't. She, her mind was affected, and since she was about 14 or... But that's not to say that the smallpox vaccine wasn't a vaccine we needed. And the smallpox was going around again. I'd be the first one online to get it.

That's the kind of thing that proves that you talked to him first before you do that. I've talked to him about it. I just have a different opinion. Smallpox? No. Every medical decision to me is just playing the odds because they don't fucking know anything. No, they know some things.

What the problem is they know a lot more than they used to know. So they think, oh wow, look at those idiots back then. Yeah, but it's what we don't know that we're gonna know in 20 years. That's gonna make you go in 20 years. Oh, Jesus, what a bunch of idiots in the world. So sugar, we didn't know anything about sugar when we were growing up. Yeah. We didn't know much about, oh, a lot about auto safety, safety belts and stuff.

We're at the infancy of understanding the human body and how it works. So be humble about that. Yeah. That's that's wrong. But smallpox, no, I don't want to get smallpox could kill you. That was a really nasty one. That was not COVID. COVID's a pimple. Yeah. It was Barzini all along. Well, did you read, you read, did you read, and Bobby's book about Fauci and what he, I mean, I did. It. A lot of a sudden it makes sense, you know. It was about this, it goes back to the AIDS vaccine. Oh. All right. That he resisted.

There was all these homegrown cures. As it was with COVID, COVID people came up with ideas, including Ivermurkton and all those other things. And they were working for certain people. So it worked. I've taken it. I did too. And they really said, no, you can't take I'm a

mercenary or whatever and the other things. So it's the law, the concept of authoritarian government that is really bothering me. And I think it bothers you. This authoritarian, yes. Of course. Biden is saying, well, we've got to take the vaccine. And you know, and yes, that's one form of it. I would say the form that Trump is threatening us with is even worse, and which is what? Well, I mean, he doesn't. Oh, the whole city. The whole city.

You know, the elections only count if we win theory of government. Well, come on, you know Trump has, he still has not conceded the election. He has not conceded. He does not honor the Okay, I mean do you know for a fact that he lost I'm just curious. Okay. You're gonna make me I just don't know all the facts because well I do is there a conspiracy theory you don't believe

Come on, Dylan. But I'll have Intelligent, of course you are. But look, look, I've had many people sit here and I've said the same thing to them. Like, the key to getting along in America is not getting into these tribal things. It's understanding that you can have somebody in your life who you go for ABC and D. We are so aligned and the person is so smart

and they really get it. And then E, each of you thinks the other one's crazy. And there's a couple of those with us. But we got A, B, C, and D. And so we just... We'll start with that. Yes! That's got to be enough. You can't make people like agree with you on these things.

And you're right. Well, I'm just asking you, I'm not an expert on the election, I don't go, I'm not a political junkie, you are. And you follow it very closely. Okay, I read that I'll give you the thumbnail sketch. They tried it in like 60 courts. It was laughed out of every court, including by Republican judges.

The people who saved this democracy were Republicans. Good Republicans in states where Trump pressured them like the guy, the one he's on trial for in Georgia, find me 11,000 votes. It's on tape. A guy like that saying to him, sir, we just don't do that here. I voted for you. I'm a Republican, but we just don't do that. That's what saved us.

And they were Republicans. So you don't take their word for it. I mean, it was about... I don't know. I mean, you went through the 2000 election. That was horrifying to me. What happened when the Supreme Court closed that town. You know, what happened there?

I mean, you know, the popular vote was won by... So, aren't you, we just keep counting votes forever? Are we sure we still be counting that to one point? No, not to count. Correct. Let's just get rid of the electoral college list to a popular vote. The people who have testified that this was a fair and well-run election. It's a who's who of people like Bill Barr, Mitch McConnell.

You're talking about Liz Cheney. You're talking about died in the wool, serious conservative Republicans who went with Trump really further out than a lot of us thought they would go with a guy like McCain's not a war hero. Okay. We forgive you. Lots of shit that he did agreeing with Putin at Helsinki against our intelligence agencies, but I know we don't want to talk about Putin.

But they, you were. It's like, what will they, we found the thing that was there safe word. The thing that made them go, no, that's too far. And it was, we have elections in this country if we don't transfer power at peace. Well, if somebody doesn't just be an adult and say, okay, you can't win them all,

we lost that one. Good luck, sir. When Obama became president, George Bush stood with him and he said, we want you to succeed. They don't do that anymore. Not that I love George Bush, but what a great moment. So what do you think happened in 2000, in Florida? 2000?

Well, they stopped the vote. Well, first of all, the governor's, the candidate's brother was the governor. And the lady counting the votes. I remember the crew of the House. Catherine Harris. I remembered the name wrong. I crew well and develop, but you're right, Catherine Harris. I mean, could there have been Shenanigans?

Look, there were Shenanigans in the Nixon Kennedy election of the side of the Democratic campaigns. Plainly Joe Kennedy brought that election for his son. I reserved judgment because it was Chicago. It was the Illinois part, more than the West Virginia part, and that was daily, and he was the boss there and daily did his own Policing and this but actually I think Kennedy won the election that I really don't I don't

That one is I I'm saying the one that's the easiest to get on board with you're like no that's I need all the facts on this Well, I don't know the facts and I think I would trust the accountants more than the politicians. I'd like to know what the accountants say. The guys who know the most about votes, who do the electoral commissions, I can't take Biden's word for it on anything. It's not his word.

It's the electoral commission. It's Trump's own election security guy who said this was the most fair, well-run election that we've had ever. Really? Yes. I don't know about that. I don't know about that. Well, I mean, if there's nothing that can be said or argued that would convince you, I think what shocked you was that Trump called the clothes so many votes. You know, that

was what was shocking that he did so well, compared to what he was expected to do. Right. Because we believe that he's a bit of a lost. We believed all the East Coast media elite. He was going to fail and boom. Yes. They were wrong.

We're love to see them being wrong. Don't wait. The media elite because they really, they went too far in hating in dumping on Trump. And people don't like that in America. You're right. You're right. And they did it too much. Well, yes, I was actually having this discussion about the CNN that worked recently.

And, you know, I want there to be a CNN in the world, you know, something that I could, I used to be able to count on them. And I still do some of it. Give it to me straight, Doc. Just give me the news. And they had this town hall with Trump about six months ago. And they took a lot of flag for it. But he was adored by the audience who were Republicans, I guess, an independence.

I think they said both, but whoever it was, they fucking loved him. And then the panel comes on after, and they do nothing but shit on Trump and what a liar is, and it's like, okay, and as a viewer I'm thinking, you know what, I fucking hate Trump. I know he's a liar, but this is boring.

First of all, we know it. And you're not trying to get at what I think would get a better audience for you, which is putting forward just the notion, why? Why do these people, this entire audience of people, can we just, let's find, why do they like him so much? What are you doing that is so off-putting? If, and if, even if they don't like him that much, that they prefer him to you.

You know, if Cracker Jacks, he got some dog shit in it. You know, you know, you know, why the dog shit is, you know, getting half the back. I think a lot of people liked him because he got dumped on so, so much. It's like Pete Rose, you know. And he grew it.

Yeah, a lot of people started to resent the media for the dumping on Pete Rose. And he was probably crooked in that way with a gambling, you had no question. I do. Well, we know exactly what I mean, but they finally got it out of him. Yes, it was wrong, but he, you know,

first of all, he's the all-time hits leader. Yeah. All-time. Right. You know, hits. Hits is a very big part of the game of baseball. Yes. And he's top dog. Right.

He should not, you should not bet. I get it that they're like super, oh, we gotta, yeah, you don't want betting in baseball. He bet, my defense if I was his lawyer was, yes, he's wrong, mercy of the court, but not life sentence, because he bet on his own team. It's not like he, there's a certain, there is a difference when betting on your own team

and betting against yourself. That's really kind of Benedict Arnold. But to bet on your own team is just, let's just say he was enthusiastically confident and optimistic about his own fortunes. Okay. Would you make a movie about him? Well, you could say Trump was enthusiastic about his own fortunes.

You do the sports movie. What? You did a sports movie. Love the great movie. And I still follow sports. See, that's it. You know, you've done so many great historical ones that I love because I'm a history not until the history is my favorite.

Yes, I've told you this before, but there's never been a documentary before. Like the amount of footage that you fit in there, the density of it, plus the radical message, you know. You know what you said? About America before I came here, I just and look I'm I'm not against you that America was overtaken by a vast right wing conspiracy, you know, I get that in 2000 was scallion well before that. I mean they've all been out there. They used to call them

birchers and then they were birthers, birchers, birchers, birchers, birchers. Everyone would call it the same one third. During the Reagan era, that's when they achieved a majority position. But Scalia was betrayal of it. And the teacher, I mean, the birchers, I mean, look what I'm talking to, Mr. JFK. I mean, wasn't that ilk, that right wing, very far right wing ilk, that was who really took out JFK, right?

And then, and there were people who didn't want the changes he was bringing. That's right. And they were right wing. At that time, you could say that they were conventional liberals because they were supporting the Cold War as it existed against Russia. Yes, you can, because they wanted to keep the expenses were going, the military industrial, the money was huge. There was a lot of reasons to keep the whole system going as it was. So it wasn't just the right wing. It was also, unfortunately, the so-called liberal center. You know what? Seeing is just priceless. central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central central and this is the Washington didn't really chop down the cherry tree book for our last hundred

years. Yeah. That was what you wrote. I like that. It's, it's, um, I've never seen anything like that, a documentary that like had me like just framed by frame. I mean, the hours you must have put into that. Yeah.

It was really a lot of work. But the scene in Nixon, with Larry Hagman. Yeah. I loved Larry Hagman. Yeah. I met him a few times. He was awesome. Lovely man. He taught me how to make.

He said, he starts every breakfast. Every day his breakfast was, he would fry up like a biscuit filled with pot and eat that for breakfast. You got a love, Larry Hagman. Yeah, we're gonna smoke. But when Nixon is, he's like this oil, some rich oil, big contributor, and Nixon's down there. And we put you in the White House dick

and I got the EPA up my ass. And Nixon goes, well, well, wrong, no. If you think it's bad having the EPA up your ass and Nixon goes, well, well, wrong. If you think it's bad having the EPA up your ass, try the IRS. That was like, yeah. Just, yeah, your movies were like, but even when you made ones that like you turn, I don't know why, what the point of that one was,

but just wildly entertaining. And the football one, you know, the football one, I was surprised, I was like, I'll never stop making movie about football. But again, it was, you know, had a lot of comments about society. And again, wildly entertaining. Well, you too, everybody was rotten in it. It was really, I filmed now.

Yeah. And in the trusses of the word, in the film now, in the old days, everybody was bad. Right. And we've lost touch of that. So I wanted to do it on homage to that. And the guy, oh, okay, that I guess Sean Penn is, is a great hero in the sense anti hero. He's, oh, he's such a weasel. But in real life, such a great guy. Are you, I hope you're still friends with him. Yeah, we talk. Oh good.

Although we're on different sides of certain points like you and I. And that's okay. It's okay. Oh Sean's a big vaccine, you know, he's a big one vaccine. I mean, he's the one who vaccinated half. I got my vaccine from him in the parking lot at Dodger Stadium. And of course, at that moment, when the, a lot of people needed the vaccine, he did a great thing.

How do you know it worked? I believe that I totally believe that if you were in bad health, the vaccine saved your life in many cases. I took the vaccine, I got the COVID. That's different, and you lived through it. And you may have not had a bad time with COVID because you had the vaccine even though you got it. These are questions we don't know.

And again, they're not political. What if it was a lab week? What if the United States, it was developing that? Right. Well, again, these pathogens to kill for military reasons. It's at least 50-50 that it was a lab leak. But I feel like as time goes by, it's tipping more and more. There's coming to the one of those points where there's a consensus.

Maybe we'll never get there, but I feel like it's tipping toward lab leak. And not bats. It's worse than that, I think. Because what are the labs in Ukraine? What is that about? The American labs over there. As if we're dumping in Ukraine, all the things that we're all the time at American labs. The labs that we have in Ukraine all the time. For development of research. All kinds of research, agricultural agricultural we have labs in Ukraine we had had well I don't know they've kind of buried it do you remember she admitted it in Newland admitted it admitted what

she said we had labs there why was that controversial well we were we making anthrax maybe maybe we're new versions of it. We don't know. That's the point, Bill. It was buried. Come on. I'm surprised that you're here. I'm sorry. I don't know that.

You're right. Well, we all have gaps in our knowledge. Everything that we make in this country for food reasons is bizarre. I mean, cargo, whatever, the way we process beef, the way we make food, it's horrible. That's what's going to cause the next pandemic is the way we treat animals. It was one of my first commentaries when this happened because we thought it was the Wuhan wet market and it could be. If we continue to torture animals as we raise them, I mean, this is not saying you can't

have animal food. I don't think we're gonna be able to stamp that out. I'm not sure we should. I'm not sure that it's scientific that we absolutely all people don't need some animal protein. But you don't have to torture them and put them in these conditions that are horrible for them and causes disease.

When you stress out animals like that, they're sentient creatures. I understand. They become sick. And then they put antibiotics in the feed because you've made this sick animal. Now we're getting their sickness and the antibiotics. Yeah, not just the animals, but I'm worried about the people who are doing the experiments and the way they get the go-aheads from these companies, which is what, in a sense, Bobby Kennedy was talking about, Jr., when he wrote the book, when he was saying the resistance to AIDS until it became a huge pharmaceutical giant in me, that drug that they ended up selling to the market place.

E.T. Yeah. It was far more expensive than the original home antitotes invented by the homosexual community in San Francisco and various places. Home antitotes. Home antitotes. Home, home, home. They made their own like out of what?

That out of their own intuitions about drugs. Oh, and there was a lot of that was effective. Are you read the book was effective? Yes, a lot of people didn't die and well, I mean, a Bobby wrote about it. I And listen Bobby is not anti vaccine. I'm not saying I understand. Well, to him for hours, but it's, so I understand exactly where he is on that. He's cautious. He's, he's cautious. I agree. Look, I am, if he's, if Fouchy's here in Bobby, Kennedy's here, I am closer to Bobby Kennedy. But that last 20 yards, I'm sorry, you and he go to places. I don't go. And that's okay. We're just in different places. Well, maybe we'll get you 10 yards closer.

I don't wanna be 10 yards closer. I think I, because I think I, look, my mind's always open. You do. It is. But, you know, it has to make sense to me. You gotta check out Ukraine Labs after this. I will.

I will. I will. I will. I will. I'll do that will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will. I will look like they're going to be a revolution. I'm like, Oh, great. Then maybe Warren, maybe you'll make another reds movie about this revolution. Nope. They go home. And then like three months later, dude, his plane crashes. I mean, what are the odds? And so many said to me, there was like nine people on the plane. And so many said to me, well, you know, yeah, maybe it was planned, but maybe the other people were also enemies of the state.

And I was like, even the stewardess? I mean, you can't really think that that is a coincidence. Well, you know, you want to go back to the beginning of all the things. You think that's a coincidence? Back in you know, you want to go back to the beginning. Do you think that took a one second back in 2000? It could have been it could have been because I Floan some of those private planes in Russia and some of them are not they could have been but Listen, I don't know the answer to that one and I don't see the motive is he was what you say He's a person of interest Putin in

in 2000 He was, what'd you say he's a person of interest Putin in that? In 2000, in that era when Putin first came into office, you know, there was that famous poisoning of the, what's his name? The guy from the XKGB agent who's been out of the KGB for 10 years, correct in London. You know, you have to look at, you've got to look at the London intelligence agencies, the English ones, MI5 and MI6. You've got to think about what they did in this affair because this is a dirty story. The guy was working for Brzynski. I'm sorry, not Brzynski. He was Brzynski was our

national security adviser. I know you're're talking about. Okay, very rich. Right. Okay, he employed his own intelligence people. Right. And inside that world of London, when you examined them and you got into it, there was a lot of infighting. People were selling information to each other, turning... There was a factionalism, all kinds of rich men were playing games.

And this guy who was supposedly poisoned by the KGB or Putin, there was no motive because he'd been out of business for 10 years. He was worthless as an agent. He wasn't, had nothing significant. They said he revenge because he betrayed his country. That's bullshit. Because a lot of Russians at that point

were betraying their country, including KGB agents. You think killers need a great reason to kill? Why do you go out and antagonize the world on a case where the wife is gonna go around screaming that you did it, you don't do that. Why all the time these poisons occurred, it was always at a key moment when the West was when there was a rap-roach small

in the dealings between East and West. and each time it was a setback. It was almost planned, and I convinced that much of this stuff was done to hurt the U.S.-Russia relationship, and that's the key to this whole thing that you and I disagree with because you've got to get into the reasons. Why has the United States been so suspicious and so destructive and hateful of Russia? It's almost like racism, you know, it's like, I'm sorry, it's almost like, hey, the Russians are Klingons. Klingons, like in Star Trek?

Klingons? Whatever. I'm not kidding with Star Trek. You don't know who the Klingons are, even I know that. I don't know. I didn't sit around. No, you were in Vietnam. You couldn it was Star Trek. You don't know who the Klingons are, even I know that. I don't know. Well, I didn't sit around. No, you were in Vietnam. You couldn't watch Star Trek.

It's true. No, you were. Where'd you go? I had a girlfriend, what's who? Tell me. She couldn't see me because she had to see Star Trek. And every time I went over there, I tried to get a kiss or something.

She'd be watching the show. She was so devoted to that show. Wow. Couldn't stand it. Listen, you have to examine. And I mean, really, you're smart enough to go back. I'll send you some books. Just look at the whole.

Why has the West been obsessed with Russia since whole period when Yeltsin was, you know, we almost had Russia. Well, here we had Russia. Here's what are from 96. Here's what I'm from 96. Here's where we probably have some common ground. I, not just I, but I think strobe Talbert. I think George Keenan, some very big thinkers.

George Kenan, yes. Kenan said strobe Talbert. No. OK, you don't know what I'm going to say, which maybe you do, that it was a big mistake to roll NATO up to his doorway. Why have NATO? NATO was there to combat the Soviet Union.

Thank you, Bill. I've said this many times, the Soviet Union fell, so why are we still having the alliance against you? Of course, it's going to get your back up. Now, maybe Russia would have become what it was anyway, even if we didn't do that, because the wounds from living under communism, I think, the psychic wounds, they do not disappear in a generation. I mean, communism living in that way were, you know, the old joke, nobody works, nobody gets paid. I mean, everybody...

I was there. I was there in 1983. I saw the worst of it because it was falling apart. And people informing on each other. That was horrible. No question about communism was decadent at that point. So it was a horrible place. It didn't

work and it fell apart. I got to know Gorbachev very well here in the States and also in Russia. Love him. I feel like he- I spent time with him. And you know, he- I love him. He was a transition. But there are two people in that era, him and Declirke in South Africa, who managed basically bloodless revolutions, which I got to think is one of the hardest things. Yes, there was no violence here. One of the hardest things to pull off is a bloodless revolution. Unbelieveable. Unbelieveable.

Unbelieveable. But a bloodless one. He was unbelievable. And Gorbachev hated his own country. He was wonderful. Right. He even got, he was tolerant with Reagan Reagan. As you know, Reagan finally came around and Nancy played a role here or the astrologer played a role. We don't worry.

But at some point Reagan really kind of let him. Like he liked Gorbachev. Gorbachev was a likable man. He was a great presence. And socially, he was a force. I know him right into the moment he died, actually. I mean, it was there several times, and I knew Putin. So I was going across town, and I talked to Putin to not like Gorbachev, because he had the almost stereotypical Russian dislike of Gorbachev, because they lost Russia, they lost their sovereignty under him, they think. That's what they thought. And Yeltsin was a direct result of, well, this weakness, I mean, actually Yeltsin took advantage of the situation, put himself in with the federal government there, and took over, and he

was the boss, the new boss. During the Yeltsin period, we have Madeline Albright, we have all these people who are still talking about supremacy and about NATO and how it must concern the Kagan's are there. All these, what you call Neil Conservatives, don't forget the project for the new American century, the people who sent us into Iraq, they were all very, very anti-Soviet. And many of them still thought it was a Soviet union. They didn't think that they changed. Right.

That Francis Fukuyama, they're not going to change. Right. They're not changing. They're still Russians and they're still communists. And that mentality carried over. I, as a naive American one over there, I got to know Putin pretty well for an American. And I choose to believe that there is a new path in his thinking. And he exhibited that to me on several occasions, constantly saying that he was not at all

a communist. He didn't like communism. He served under it. He saw its evils. He really, he was intelligent. Very intelligent. I'm greased intelligent. I'm trying to bring you along and to understand i'm i i what he felt i'm i i look for a call i get it you

know i'm well well i'm saying say understand him that he was really working towards integrating russia into the western model of this economic growth and prosperity that's funny he's got a funny way of doing that. Well, integrate. You're kidding, you're good. He's like, he's the opposite. He's like the opposite of Peter the Great who wanted a window on the West, right?

That's why he founded St. Petersburg, right? He wanted a window on the West. It's on the Baltic. So he dredged a city out of a swamp. Yes, that's kind of things people did back then, man, when they wanted to get some shit done, try to get that through Congress. Club random is brought to you by the audio marketing gurus

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Just go to this exclusive web address right now to try Zippercouter for free. Zippercouter.com slash random. Again, that's zippruiter.com slash random. Again, that's zip recruiter.com slash random. Zip Recruiter, the smartest way to hire. Okay. So, Putin brought a lot of... Putin is the kind of, I mean, just going into Ukraine was sort of like... Oh, come on. We're jumping way ahead. Let's go back to that period when he came into office. Jeltsin left the country a disaster.

He hates the West. He's not jumping to a conclusion again. I saw no evidence of that. I saw respect for the West, admiration for the West. What's where he's at now, maybe a different place. He says the West is decadent. It's funny. That's what he said since the fallout, since the big fallout.

There are some things he says that are not that far afield from things that people over here, including myself, say, like talking about like some things in our society are decadent. You know, when he talks about, but he of course goes too far and he doesn't really understand it because he lives in Russia, but they see the West as decadent. And they see, I think the Republicans, the Trump people, the Fox News people who are always sucking Russia's dick, I feel like they like Russia because it's the last white place on Earth. It's the one, and that's far-fetched, because so many Republicans have expressed just hatred

for Russia and desire to- Over the years. Not the new batch. I didn't want to mic McConnell, all those people. They're not Russian. They're mic McFowl. All these people in the Republicans are, they're so anti-Russian, still nothing has changed. The point was, I was trying to so anti-Russian still nothing has changed. The point was I was trying to make anti-Russian. The point I was trying to make to you was that Russia was broke. It was finished. The

people were dying ten years, men were dying ten years earlier, women were dying seven years earlier, the age expectancy. It was a horrible joy when Putin put it back on its feet. He took a lot of people out of poverty. He gave it its dignity back, its respect from 2000 to 2000 now. And now they, but you have to allow for the growth of that. And when that started to happen by 2007, when we went to the Munich conference, when the West started to really think about Putin and really say, you know, this is not our goal.

We don't want to have Russia back on its feet. We don't want to sovereign Russia. We don't want to independent Russia. We want to strip them of their sovereignty so that we can do what, so that we can move into the Eurasian continent, which is rich, rich, rich, and Russia is two thousands of natural resources so many. If we can get Russia under either under a Yeltsin or somebody else, get them in our pocket, we'll own Russia, Wall Street will own Russia.

That was really the motivation to keep moving and why they turned on Putin. I mean, I wouldn't put it down Wall Street for wanting to own Russia or anything. Yes, it's something they do. They want to own things. Anytime there's a vacuum, like there is after the Soviet Union, the Valle, I mean, all sorts of vultures are going to fly. Well, your hero, Gorbachev, I talked to him about this, and he said exactly that. You know, at the beginning, he didn't like Putin because he thought he was dark and, you know, whatever.

He wrote in dark. Oh, come on. Those lifeless dogs. I had fun with them anyway. But listen. When he's a dinner, does he ever send points to another table? Yeah, he asked me. He has his...

It's from the gentleman. Anyway, I can't get to you. You're a comedian still. You have to. Okay. But I'm saying Gorbachev said, I saw him, I saw him about two years before he died again. And he said, this is wrong.

What we're doing in Ukraine with a coup d'état that we, America pushed in Ukraine in 2016. That was a big mistake and really set off this whole new problem that we, that, that, that, that, that has resulted in this ridiculous, unnecessary war. It's horrible. That's unnecessary. It's, it's, it's not put it off. Newland and your, neo-conservatives and those people who plotted from the beginning,

I believe from the beginning, to get Ukraine. Here's a divided country, we have East and West. It's so, I mean, people, when the war started and there was some talk about battlefield nukes. About what? Battlefield nukes, nukes, battlefield war. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, you know, which are still nukes.

It's something like, okay. And they was a lot, and I, some people are still worried this could trigger World War III. Cause it's a proxy war between America and Russia. But it's really World War I. It's just this senseless, it's so depressing that here in 2023, we can still find a world like that. It's so depressing that here in 2023, we can still find a world like that. It's so depressing. And also just on a humanitarian level that people can't do better than slogging

their way over inches of land. They're fighting over time. They've destroyed whatever they're fighting over. So they're fighting over wastelands. But I think you understand that Russia felt threatened and its security was at stake that NATO scared to shit out of it. And you accepted that. I agree. And here they are.

At the doorstep, there was no need at that moment. It should have been the, there were moments for the olive branch and there were moments for the sword. And they miscalculated. And they, the people in power at the time. The Neal Conservatives. Well, whoever it was, was it George verse the first?

Yes. Well, he was one of them, but, But I think it was by partisan. I think it was by partisan. Under Obama continued. Yeah. I didn't know this. I thought I voted for Biden.

I thought he would be as an older man or a wiser man, but I didn't realize how much he hated the Soviet, the old Soviet Union. Well, the Soviet Union was a hateable place. Yes. But not the people. He was to an extreme. He voted in many ways.

Is it your personal encounters with Russian people that is the providence of your great loyalty to Russia? Do you think where does it come from? I'm trying to. But Where does it come from? No, I'm trying to. But where does it come from? You know what? I'm a dramatist and I'm trying to tell the truth.

But why Russia? Of all the countries in the world. Because it's the most important because we have, the United States has chosen it. Did you feel that way always, like even back in? No, no, no. It's insane. I went to Russia in 83 because I was curious.

I wrote a beautiful script about the dissident movement. I was on the side of the dissidents. Right. A lot of them were Jewish. Yeah. A lot of them, as you know, suffered greatly in psychological instances. Oh my god. They were giving Thorazine. I met quite a few of those people, and I hated the Russian, the Soviet regime at that point. Then Gorbachev came along, and you were here to see that there's another side to this thing. Then I meet him. I go to Russia again, and I meet Putin several times. Actually, I went there for Snowden. I was my movie I did in 2016. 2016. And Snowden was a, he's a character, but he lives in Moscow.

Do you communicate with him? I can, but I, he's in Moscow. Yeah, he's in Moscow. He's become a family man. Talk about standing up for what you believe in. And this is also something I do. I told this to Bobby Kennedy when he was here. Like, I don't agree with everything you said. And I said to him, you know, your father, I don't think would agree with everything you say, but he'd be very proud of you.

Because he talked about sticking by your gun. Yes. But Edward Snowden willing to, I mean, very proud of you because we talk about sticking by your gun. Yes. But Edward Snowden, willing to, I mean, live in Russia, give up your country. That is a sacrifice. You might not agree with everything, but in general. But generally in the songs too, I mean, these people stand for something. They mean something.

They're the most, they have the most integrity far more than any American political leader that we have. We have no leadership that way. We don't have anybody who stands for it. John Kennedy spoke about peace. That's what I'd like to see American leaders talking about peace. Where is Julian Assange now? Julian is in London still at that Belmarsh prison. He's in a prison in London. Yeah, horrible. He was in an Ecuadorian... Yeah, that was... Yeah, before. Right. in a in a Ecuadorian. Yeah, that was yeah before. Right. I remember panther. And they were taping him as you know through the Spanish intelligence firm. They

were they were even they were even planning to kill him. I was this is I don't know I'm not sure about this, but there was a plan to kill him. Well Pamela Anderson used to visit him there for sex. I hope they taped that. We could get him. Oh, he met him. I met his wife, and I got to know her a little bit. Sarah, she's a beautiful woman. And he has two children with her. I met Julian when he was before that, when he was a bit more cocky. And he was a little, you'd say he was arrogant.

Yeah, well, so what? So, so, so. Well, to do things on that level, to be up that high on that high at tight rope, of course, you have to be a little cocked. Well, he was taking on the empire, and that was a huge risk. Oh, I mean, and I don't know he saw this coming. Oh, they hounded him to the, the, the, howdy them still. They got Snowden, because Snowden was in a tough position in Hong Kong,

because the extradition was gonna, the Chinese were, they didn't know how the Chinese would play, if they were gonna extradite him from Hong Kong or not, they have a separate system there. So Snowden has to flee. He, Julian arranges for him to go to Ecuador, first of all, and then he, I think, was Ecuador, and he doesn't get there, because the plane goes through Moscow and ends up, the plane goes from Moscow to Cuba and from

Cuba to Ecuador and so forth. So he ends up in Moscow and then he, but the United States, well, knows he's in the air so they take away his passport. Now he's no longer a citizen of any country in the world, so he's stranded in the Moscow airport for, I forgot, two, three weeks, two weeks, at least. Two weeks, he sleeps in that hotel in the Moscow airport. And then, of course, there's got to be some... He wasn't very happy about it, you know, but Putin did give him access and said, you're, you're a free man, you can do what you want.

Just know to have a decent life in Russia, does he like have a girlfriend? No, he does, yeah, citizenship, I believe believe you can have a dual citizenship. Does he like married? Is he? Oh yeah. Didn't you follow all this stuff? I'm I'm trying to remember. He had a beautiful girlfriend in America, the pole dancer. She I don't I didn't know. Shelly Woodley played her. Oh, shelly Woodley played her in a movie? Oh, you're moving. Oh, she was an amateur pole dancer. Well, okay, but that was the eye-catching part of it. No, she was a woman who tried to... Okay, so did she go with him to Russia?

Yes. Oh, so they're still together. She went there after he was barred from the US. I mean, he can't go. He can't even go. Have you ever remember when the United States brought down the plane of evil Morales? The Bolivian Bolivian president, and he flew out of Moscow. He brought down the plane in Vienna. Well that one they brought down.

But the other dude snowed and can't go anywhere because the United States as its claws everywhere, you know sovereignty. Scares, you know, you can't go to Egypt, just this. So here he is in Moscow. He took his medicine. He got used to the place. He's probably learning Russian, and it's hard to learn.

Right. He's made his way for the last, since the movie of 2016 was, I'd say, in the last eight years, he's become much friendlier in understanding. Do you think there'll be a day when he can come home? I don't think so. He's got his girlfriend. Do you have kids?

I think they have certainly one child. I think they have a second child. Well, the only chicken spoke English. I mean, what's he going to do? No, I'm kidding. No, a lot of people in Russia speak English. They do? Yes.

Wow. Especially in Moscow. Come on Moscow's wild I Parties of course not it's like a party like a giant party. It's a sophisticated city right and great parties By the way, it's a special party. Oh, I remember when you partied Remember I'm one of the when we were out a lot, like what the fuck were we doing? You talking about the 70s? No, no, I'm talking about the 90s when I was in the 90s.

Like we would be here, like, I don't know. I just used to go out way more. Do you go out now? Well, I was on my third wife. She's on my second wife. So by the 2000s, I got my third wife. So it's a different situation in your wives, you know, you have to, I plotted this. So in between the wives, I had a lot

of fun. And do you feel like you finally got it right the way I did? I found a Korean woman and I just, she's Korean. Perfect for me. Perfect for me. And do you say it like Korean has something to do with why she's perfect for you? Is it a cultural? I do have a fundus for the Korean jeans. Always, that's funny. When I was a little boy, do they get jealous of the Russians?

Come on, it's so nice. Who do you like better? No cheap jokes here. In the 50s, it's all cheap jokes. In the 50s, somebody gave me a, for some reason under the Christmas tree, it was a Korean doll. A little Korean doll with, you know, the chopped hair and all that, that.

Oh yeah, sure. Peasant, blunt. Right. I love that doll. For some reason, I don't know why, you know, boys were not selling. It was your rosebud. That was my rosebud.

And it ended up being the girl, the woman. Okay, so that explains the Korean rosebud. What's the Russian, what's the Russian rosebud. And it ended up being the girl, the woman. Okay, so that explains the Korean rosebud. What's the Russian rosebud? Govichov, probably because I began to understand through his compassion. He was a compassionate man. Right, you know, he very generous. Oh, he's amazing what he called.

I mean, I'm gonna put in that category, Obama, getting elected the first black president. Like, there are certain things that are like, no, Obama prosecuted Assad. You know, come on, you can't say he didn't, Obama did, didn't, Obama was a preacher in any way. I said, what I said was getting elected.

Yeah, I liked him then, but something happened between November and January. You know that. Obama was a hard ass on national security issues. I mean, he was not afraid to also drone a wedding. Totally was not shy about, you know, and it's not funny, but I was scared. I think he was scared of assassinating.

I think he was doing his job as he thought it would done best, and I've heard from many people, if you've got elected president, they take you in a little room, and they tell you some things that would fucking curl your toes. Yes, exactly. And so you tend to like air on the side of caution and killing quite frankly. Well, that's not good. I mean, you know what they shouldn't be able to take you in a room and twist your mind. Of course, it's like brainwashing, but it's not good. You know Stalin's famous line, no person, no problem, right? As a way of handling problem, what happens to our presidents when they get elected? They just Carter, the same thing, you know, Brazinski turned him around. Carter had a much more humane approach to the world

than what happened. And Brazinski, who's Polish, turned him around completely on Russia. Hey, what did he, what did he, Russia? And if you remember, Carter's a guy who said, when Russia invaded so-called in Afghanistan, he said, this is the biggest threat since World War II. Yes.

That was a little exaggerated. Why would he say that? Well, Mitt Romney turned out to be... So we ended up supporting all the Mujahideen, all the radicals, all the exlamics that are radical were put in place and supported by America. Oh, you know what? I don't think so. And that became back to Hanna's forget that. I don't forget that.

And that became back to Hanna's on 2000. I don't forget that. And that's probably the thing in the untold history of the United States that would catch people the most is like you're like your prosecution of that thesis which is totally true. Like, but of course people in decades past, execution of that thesis, which is totally true.

But of course people in the decades past, centuries past, they were just more brutal about everything. And we were, we were like, we're the big swing in dick. I remember being a man who was there, remember? Yeah, it was cruel. Well, every war is cruel, but of course. But cruel you expect in war, it's especially

gaulling when it's pointless, when the war is pointless. You know what I'm saying? World War One was pointless. World War One is especially pointless. I mean, about fucking, we don't have, without World War One, we don't have World War Two, so... Yes, you're right. Right. That was another point in the book.

Yeah, and we don't have the Cold War, because the Cold War is also a fiction. I mean, that came in after 1944. You've seen the chart of the players in the countries that got involved in World War One. We're all like kings and cousins. Yeah, right. They all knew each other. They're like the like Russia, the Russian dude and the you know the Austrian dude and the English dude. They were like and the Russian and it was about cousinly squapples between these people. Yeah, it was it was also economic pressure. between these people. It was also economic pressure.

The Germans scared the British, the British wanted to be, the British have a huge responsibility for the mess this world is in. You've got to look at the British Empire as a member here, as a member still existing in its own ghost-like way. I would, I mean, I understand the Great Russian soul

and all that. And I think the Russian people are probably sold to the Earth people, although like any abused child, they're rather cynical now, which can be dangerous. But I would have to go if I had to pick between the British and the Russians. I think I would go with British. Of course, because you speak English and because you're

anglofile. No course, because you speak English and because you're Anglo-File. You know, it's also because of culture. Yes, culture, that's true. Culture, and I like the British culture. There's much good things in it, but there's also an empire aspect. I mean, Russia has still not gotten democracy. They went from ZAR.

So, so, without any idea. What do you mean? I mean, this is the biggest American litmus test is you're not a democracy by like we are. This is nonsense. What do you expect everybody to say? We're supposed to be Americans. Come on. No.

So, arrogant of Americans. We're falling off the edge with democracy. I agree. Mostly because of the right. No, mostly because of our in-built arrogance. But we still have it. Whereas they went from SARS to commissars to now Putin. They went from one basic dictatorship to another.

Now this is the third one in a row. There's not a democracy. And you can't say anything. You're wrong. There's not a democracy. Bill, you can't say anything. I mean, you're wrong. Well, if Putin was not, there is a form of consent. And people don't understand that he would not be the boss in Russia.

Let's say number one, and he can't control everything. He would not even be the boss if the people turned on him. It would be, it's changed. I mean, it's not Stalin time. You can't kill people the way you do in the, or send them their gulags. It doesn't work that way. It's, it is, it has a legal structure, and it may not be always enforced and all that, but it does work in its own way. So if he doesn't

have the consent of the people, he wouldn't last. That's my point. He wouldn't last two months. So, so I'm saying in Ukraine war, whatever you think, they'll have the consent of his culture. When they blew up that bridge to the Crimean Bridge, they didn't blow it up, they damaged it. They damaged it. They tried to set up the bomb in the middle of the bridge. And that bridge is like 13 miles long.

I mean, it connects Russia. It's the only thing that connects Russia physically to this other guy besides the front lines. So what, like you think the guy who I'd to tell Putin that wasn't scared? Which guy? Whatever guy had to go in and say, excellent, I have some news that, oh, you think that, you're thinking that?

No, he's much more modern than that. People, they don't bow down. He walks in a room, he's a very, he's business-like, put it that way. And he gets it, he's not, you create a cz bizarre effect around him. I didn't ever sense that. I sensed he was a very practical man and wanted to get a truth teller and the sense that

he get to business. Let's get to the essence of this situation. What is your problem with me? What's my problem with you? Then the United States has not been willing to talk to him. This is true. You don't give this at 2007. Well, maybe they may be.

They may be. Well, very clearly. And do you remember that I showed that in the documentary, became and was sneering at him during the, all the Americans in the audience, this Russian, he's telling us that the world is not working the way it should, you know, the, telling us the Russian viewpoint. It was so arrogant and attitude to Putin as if he's just another Russian. What is it about Russians? Is it Slavic, the Slavic?

I can't figure out why the hate is there. It's his actions. It's because he's Slavic. Because we have overwhelming evidence of things that he has done. Like what? Is like killing journalists. Like, no, I disagree.

Okay. Why kill a journalist? The woman who was killed, why kill a journalist? Because they write, because they, well, the woman who was killed, and we know this, if she really followed the story, was killed by Chechens. And that was at a time of that civil war. He couldn't have a, Polo, it's, Anna.

You, you think Putin couldn't have a Chechen henchman? Why would, but, the motive is the motive. You don't want to, no, you think Putin couldn't have a church in Henshman? Why would the motive is the motive? You don't want to, no, you don't kill a journalist. It doesn't make sense. Don't kill lawyers. It makes perfect sense if you don't want the right to mind you. You're buying into the Magnitsky act. But it doesn't make perfect sense.

You remember the guy in London who's always making those accusations that they killed my, they killed my lawyer, Magnitsky, in the prison thing? And they passed the Magnitsky Act in Congress. It was one of the first hostile. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Hostile, accessing it. Yeah, I got it.

To me, it was completely staged by the guy. Bill Browder was his name. He's still alive, multi-billionaire. He stole a lot of money in Russia, and he got away with it. And he's... But Mikhail Kortakovsky didn't get away with it, and he probably didn't do it. They put it, he was in jail for it. Yeah, but he did a lot of shit to you.

All those guys. How do you know? They were very proud and very arrogant. They stole a lot of money from the government, and Putin put it back together the best he could. Oh, okay. All right. So, I. All right, well. So, I mean, you're saying that all the evidence,

I'd like to see the evidence and discuss it. Let's discuss it. Let's go with MI5 and have a discussion. Let's really examine these murders, so to speak. Really? Because I think Putin is giving up, there's no point in projecting it, protesting, he's giving up on the way.

People have? He's giving up on the way. He's given up on the way. How'd it done that? And that's good. If we should stay, Gorbachev was, as you say, what is willing to make a deal. He was a wonderful negotiator. So Putin is too. He's a great negotiator. Give him a chance. Go ahead. But nothing can happen until the war ends. But why does Biden, not even, what is Biden before he gets elected, call him a thug and all these kind of names, before he's elected? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard for a presidential candidate. Once you keep your options open, it's about the bodies on the

sidewalk. The bodies on the sidewalk are not proven. You haven't proven it to me. You got them? Can I take a leak? Yes, you mean Putin was like, we have got to do something about this problem. Oh, people fooling up windows. I think the floors are too slippery by the window. That is what we must work on.

The club random merch line is up and ready to go. Get your club random t-shirts, haps, hoodies, and glassware at clubrandom.com. You admire Gorbachev. I think you have to understand that Gorbachev changed his mind about Putin and came around and he wrote about it. He was, but no one in the west would listen. He said, Russian has got to, has a major problem with NATO, and what they're doing is betraying the deal I made with Baker back in 1990, what was it, six or seven?

That's very important. But what's happening now is really, really dangerous to me, and I should be to all of us. All Americans are not aware that Biden has set a policy of supporting Ukraine with its constantly rising demands for more and more weapons, of course, the Ukrainians or whatever you want to think about their government. There are a lot of problems in that government and a lot of bad people, a lot of bad apples, a lot of frankly Nazis. And the problem is that

by Nazis, yes, the Nazis, Nazis. I mean, I've met quite a few of them actually because I've been Ukrainians all over London, they're all over New York. That's full Putin. What? Not Nazis? Okay, call them sympathizers, call them what you want, but Ukraine was a Nazi sympathizer nation, the Western Ukraine, completely so. I think Croatia, more than Ukraine. Gillesia, come on.

No, no, there were definitely pockets of people all through Europe who were thrilled that someone was trying to kill all the Jews. Would they attack Poland? They'd attack. all the Jews. Would they attack Polish people? They killed Jews constantly and they killed Polish people and they killed Russia. Everybody did it. Everybody is always killing the Jews. But this was an organized, it was organized.

Stephen Banderon, who they respect and they have statues in Ukraine. They put medals out in his name, was it pure out now? Okay. One of them trying to say, Biden is on the wrong path because his strategy, and it's been asked of him, what the strategy is, why are we supporting Ukraine? They doesn't come up with a reasonable answer. The best answer he's come up with is weaken Russia.

That's what we want to do. We want a weaken Russia. And that's what the defense is. That's not his answer. His answer is that too. His answer is stand up for democracy. And draw a line that we don't in the 21st century. What democracy in Ukraine?

Invade other sovereign nations. What democracy? I know the guys who are throwing in jail by his Olensky. Give me a break. The Olensky was, okay, this thing is a fraud. The whole thing is a fraud. A fraud.

It's not even hard to understand. Here's what it, you know what? Let me go through the history, because I'm sure you know it. But Kiev, I've said this on my show, people are sending it like they hear. Kiev was the first part of Russia. Kiev and Russia, like I think it was founded in like, $889 or something like that.

Okay. That was the first, then history, lots of people trod on different lands. That's the problem in the Middle East, both on the same land. Over the years, Kevin Russia, it passed to like the Lithuanians, the Mongolians, attack the Mongols, like, which they do, and they want to look west in a way Putin does not, or at least that's their perception, shouldn't they be able to? I don't think Putin has a problem with that. The problem was that in the Meydan coup d'état, the government that came into power was no longer neutral. It was Fervently anti-Russian

Fervently and when after russians the language treated them like inferior and in Donetsk and muhansk Killed killed Set what they call separatists who in fact people who wanted to preserve the Russian culture I mean this is this is the issue that comes up so often. It's a huge issue in European history. It certainly was the run up to World War II, is that in one country will be a minority population from another country. It's not a minority in this case.

No, well. In those provinces. Russians living in Ukraine is a minority in the whole country, but not in those regions. Yes. That always gives somebody a pretext to go in and say, well, I just want to be with my bros who are really us. Come on, Bill.

No, that's it. And we want to, they should be protected. The separatists asked Putin to take over. Wait, I forgot who the separatists were. In 2000s, they were the ones who were advised. The Zolensky, the Zolensky, the Poroshenko regime. They didn't want to be. First of all, there was a coup d'état.

That's not Democratic bill. They got rid of a guy. Yeah, of course. The Ukraine is a hugely corrupted country. Absolutely. Yeah, all of a sudden it's more corrupt under Yenukovic. Yenukovic, then it is under Zolensky. No.

Poroshenko, they're all back. We do have issues with the Ukrainian. I mean, they always ranked in the world like ranking from corruption. 156. You know, very, you know, I don't think they took home the gold, but they were always in the conversation. You know what I mean? They were, so no, that has not gone away. The man referendum thing. The students, I'm all for them, they were protesting against the repression, the corruption of the government. There was a lot of built up, but what happened was-

Where did the orange revolution? That was back in 2000. Was that what were you talking about? No, that was back in 2002. And by the way, that happened and Putin was okay with it. They wanted to do that. You know, he accepted that. But what happened in 2016 was that coup was definitely pointed at Russia. And if you remember correctly, Yenukovych, who was the president of Ukraine, was negotiating with the European Union for a better deal than he was getting from the Russia. That was the president of Ukraine, was negotiating with the European Union

for a better deal than he was getting from the Russia. That was the whole point. And at the end of the day, at the end of the day, the EU cut them off. They didn't give them what they wanted. So he came back to Ukraine and he said, let's give it a halt. We're not gonna rush into the EU deal

because it's not a good deal. Who was the leader, can you listen to me? I'm listening, but I got to get the players right. You caught who? You look of it. She was the president. He was the president. We see the one with the fucked up face.

No, that was a similar name, but no, he was back early. But that's what he was running against. A super fucked up face because he was poisoned by certainly not Putin. But why not Ukrainians? Why not? Why not Ukrainians? Why not? I mean, let's be honest. Well, there's a lot of infighting in Ukraine, you know that. No, I mean, that's, I mean, he's,

you ought to be able to assume that Putin is responsible for everybody. He's like a James Bond film. Dr. No does this. He does that. It's exactly like a James Bond film. He's not, he's not. He's not too much.

He's like a Bond villain. He should be stroking a cat every time you see not too much. He's like a Bond villain. He should be stroking a cat every time you see him. Exactly. He's exactly a Bond villain. You see, that's where your problem is. He has a billion dollar. He has a billion dollar. He's easier for you to call him a keychain,

like that, characterizing, like that. It's easy. But Gorbachev came around, and he was, you admit, that was a man who was closer to your own. Unbelievable. Like I'm telling you, you admit, that was a man who was closer to your own. Unbelievable. I'm telling you, Declirc Obama and what? Okay, he'll back to it. I'm just talking about as political skill to thread those needles.

I should write a book, if I was that kind of person which I'm not, and somebody else should. That's be a great book, Declir clerk Obama and Gorbachev, the people who like, what about Mandela? Well, yes, but I mean, what to clerk did was different. I'm talking about a sort of Mandela assumed them, yeah, I mean, you could broaden this out to lots of people. But the harder thing I think to do was to get that transition from, okay, we're this bad-ass, horrible, apartheid country, and now we're just going to give that up. That's a pretty hard sell.

I can imagine if you tried to do something like that to the right wing in our country. Yeah. I don't know where you're talking about exactly where you're looking. Talking about what Declorek was able to do to have a bloodless revolution, where he somehow convinced. And Gorbachev had one and we accept that. And also I'd like to point out to you that when Donetsk and Luhansk asked for Russian, they wanted their own sovereignty.

They wanted to be autonomous, not sovereign, autonomous. And that's all they wanted. But they were, people were being killed left and right in those provinces because they were considered terrorists and separatists. At that point, they asked Putin to protect them and they would go under a Russian protection. Putin refused, don't, don't, you have to remember,

Putin refused, he didn't want it. He said, look, we'll try to help you, but you've got to help yourselves first. And that's what they did. They fought like Dog and Cat for the next six years. And they were killed. They say 7,000, maybe 8,000 people were killed in those provinces by the Ukrainians. And those were dirty assassinations, most of them. Let me ask you this. What? Okay. Do you think there's too many countries in the world or not enough? Like, when

you hear about places like this that want to be autonomous, Scotland wants to be autonomous, the Boschery. If they're willing to die for it, yes. So you think we should be more countries. We should split with that. There's many times we Shmurge people to go into dog form like Belgium. They they fucking don't want to be together the the the I don't know that you have to go there. I know I know it You spend a lot of time eating No, it's waffles friends The Crimean people is an interesting story because you should see my documentary, Ukraine on fire, because there's footage of the Crimean reaction to all

this. Is this the new one that were? No, there was 2016. I did. Okay. 1760. But what's the one you have now? The nuclear now.

The nuclear now. What are you going to cut? Let's get it. I want to finish this. Okay. All right, good. So, Crimea saw the, might end thing happening. And also, it wasn't democratic.

They were just being all of a sudden dictated to by anti-Russian people in Ukraine. They didn't want any of it. Part of the deal with that. There was not one drop of violence. Russia was there by treaty. They had 17,000 troops in Crimea. They had by treaty and they inherited, in a sense, the situation, because Crimea is Russian.

And at the end of the day, it's not really part of Ukraine. It was given to Ukraine as a birthday gift by a drunk cruise ship. No, he won it in a poker game. Okay, a drunk cruise ship. You're he won it in a poker game. Okay, a drunk cruise ship. You're a netty and half of this story. So the truth is, okay, I had a bloodless revolution.

That was a big deal. And we showed all that, how the Ukrainian troops were marching towards Crimea. These are conscripts. They were in Crimea. Oh, right. They stayed in the barracks. They didn't come out to enforce the Ukrainian

point of view on the Crimea. And so Crimea has then had a referendum which the West marked to have my utmost admiration. I just want to finish. Right, boy. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I just wrap it all up quickly. The point is where is this leading? Where are we now? Ukraine is getting its ass kicked. So many Ukrainians have died. So many have moved out of the country. And this is the lens he continues with his hollow government and continuing the charade of Western arms, Western arms. Give me everything you have. It's not going to end well. It's kind of an open salad bar. It's a sewer. It's a sewer. And Biden has got no policy except we can Russia. That's not gonna work. The point is, we're in it.

Russia is not interested in gaining Ukraine. It's interested in securing the autonomy of those provinces in the East. So if I say, okay, I agree with you on everything. That's all new. Can we move on? So there's no, Russia does not mean we're in the safe word. They keep saying Russia invades you.

I agree. They don't want you, Craig. So true. Who wants you, Craig? It's a fucking mess. It's a sewer. As I've always said. Anyway, the point is, it's not going anywhere.

And that's, so what's the risk? Is that Biden takes it, Biden, who's, I don't know what he is anymore, but what if he takes it too seriously, and he wants to go further and further and further, and it becomes a world war situation? Then it becomes very serious. He's not taking it anywhere. He just gave bigger missiles to Ukraine. Okay, but they're fighting in defensive war. They're not taking it anywhere.

He was in a defensive war because they went into Ukraine with this plan. The Neocon used Ukraine as a proxy situation to beat Russia down. And in order to defeat Russia, take its resources, bring to Wall Street the riches that exist in Eurasia. This is a huge move. I think you should make a move. And it's just the tone for their Chinese. Our next step would be the Chinese. I want to see you make a hood. So, go after Russia, then we take China, and then we take the world. A hootie on a movie. What? A hootie on a movie.

It's a hootie. No, I want to see you make one. And at the end when we find out who done it, it makes no sense. Yeah. Very funny. Ha. There you go.

There you go. That's pretty good. That's pretty, I got a, wow, he's a hard judge there. I got a pretty good at of, I'm thrilled. He just made my night. Oliver. Bill, Bill, Bill. Hey, nuclear energy, okay.

Yes. And again, it's one of those that it shouldn't be political and we should make a dispassionate, logical decision on this and where I have fallen is close to where you are, I think, which is, yes, when it goes bad, it goes very, very bad. We just can have to find a way so that it never goes very, very bad. There must be a way to do both.

I don't agree with that. Oh, I thought that's where you were. No, no. That's the rap on nuclear. When it goes bad, it goes very, very bad. No, the worst that we've ever had. Yeah, because that's what's happened. The worst that happened was Chernobyl.

And that was highly overexaggerated, considering the damage to the casualties. Nothing lives there. It's actually a very rich nature has come back and it's full. I can get you our department so cheap. No, look, I mean, Chernobyl is overexaggerated. And it was used by the environmentalists to kill off. And the oil business was used to kill off any development in the Western Europe as well as America. They didn't build anything, basically, after Chernobyl. And then, of course, they never lied about the three-mile island. It was not at the disaster.

There was picture at all. Nobody got hurt. It was a containment structure worked. And then, Fukushima, it's a joke. No one died. It was all the tsunami killed 18,000 people, and they blamed it on nuclear. It's a nuclear disaster.

It was bullshit. It was all the Japanese built. The structure was not as it should have been with the next to the ocean and so forth and so on. Meanwhile, Fukushima is okay. The Japan closed down its reactors stupidly, and now they're back in business, gradually, unfortunately, Japan's still. I guess this is what would define us, if we did a show, is me playing the part of the centrist. You can do like, you know. Because I don't see the problem with acknowledging

that what a nuclear power does have an accident, it is bad. What about you? I just... What about carbon? The carbon... Why the... Union, Carbide in India. Why the...

Twenty thousand people died in India from the Union Carbide gas accident. Also bad. What about Exxon? What about all the things that happen with oil, gas, coal? There's nothing to do with the question I'm asking. How many people die every year from coal? I mean, probably estimated 15, 20,000. That's completely irrelevant.

We're talking about whether it's dangerous. We're talking about a fundamental question, whether we should include nuclear in our energy portfolio. Absolutely. I mean, in France's energy portfolio, it's 90%. Okay, so that's, I would say, the far end of it, where we could go as a country, or we could do what we basically have been doing for a couple of decades now, which is saying, no, this is too dangerous. We've seen the accidents. It's just, yes, it's great unless something goes wrong.

Okay. Another fear story. Another fear story. Another fear story. But why can't we acknowledge the part that is just, again, true? It is bad if it goes bad. But that's very bad. Well, that's, I think very bad. I think nuclear waste in the ocean is very bad. And that's what we're getting with Fukushima.

No. Yes, they are. Japan said they're, they're really. I could drink tritium. We could drink, it's what we're getting with Fukushima. No. Yes, they are. Japan said they're really... I could drink tritium. We could drink... It's got the radioactivity of a banana. I think you have been drinking it. I'm going to.

I'm going to bring it to you. You know, it's as dangerous as your scotch. No, seriously. A tritium has been over another one overhyped as has radioactive waste. All this stories, that's what this film is about, knocking out the fear, coming down to facing, what happened, what's the reality?

And once we accept that, we've blown, we blew something major. Okay, look, I'm gonna... America would be nuclearized now. I'll be the spokesman here for, I think we should be using nuclear power, but I'm not gonna lie to the people I'm trying to get to sign up for the program and say, folks, even if it goes bad, it's a big

nothing. Nuclear waste, I don't know what you've heard about it, but I had some for lunch. Nuclear waste. I'm just not going there. So just admit. Well, I wish it's you the movie. I will see the movie. We talk about nuclear waste. We go into the

details. Where we go into the specifics. Again, specific specifics. And the truth is, it is, but it's a radioactive waste is one of the best features of nuclear energy because look, how much nuclear waste after 60, 70 years in America do we have? We could fit in a Walmart. It's not even, it's not a lot. Can I ask you a person who's concentrated medium. It's an energy that's very concentrated. I love waste as much as the next year. Compared to gas, cool. I can talk about it all night, but like, why don't you make,

I mean, for us fans, you know, I'm just the young man in the 22nd row, okay? For us fans, you spend all this time making documentaries and they're, why don't you make what you do so well? Make a movie that's a great entertainment, always about something. That's why your movies are great, they're not just pointless, but you make it entertaining, which I feel like that's what Hollywood forgot to do. In the last

They make things that are just ponderous and it's all about look what good people we are used to be look what good product We make well why didn't and you there's a way to do to get actors It was harder to get the financing for those kind of movies. I'm sorry. They you're right. Yeah, I made a film called Nixon I really broke my my broke my show awesome. I really was a big film and it was three hours and 10 minutes and they treated it every minute. It was tough. It was very tough reaction to that. Also the casting of Anthony Hopkins. It's hard to make those movie. It's hard to make. Anthony Hopkins, right? So no one would have thought of that. That's no didn't do that. He wasn't even American. Yeah. Why don't you, why don't you ever like take a compliment?

Why don't you ever like, you never want to like talk about your triumphs? Oh, I love Nixon. I love it. It's really one of my favorite movies. Anthony Hopkins. I love him. Right. I'm guessing that was your idea. Yes. Okay. I'm just saying, most people wouldn't have thought love him. Right. I'm guessing that was your idea. Yes. OK, I'm saying. Most people wouldn't have thought of him for that. Well, they wanted Nicholson, and they wanted Warren Betty, and wrong.

Wrong. I know. Right. And I went to them both because obedience servant that I am to Hollywood, I ended up waiting for them and waiting. No. It didn't work.

I mean, as losing Anthony, so I, I, I, studio wouldn't do it and I changed to him. I see, they only see the surface. But what you saw was that Anthony Hopkins, as we've been so with Hannibal Lecter, has this like, malevolence right underneath the surface. I think he's probably a lovely guy, but he had this old sweetheart,

a little part of him that might be bearing little boys in his backyard or something, and that comes through, and that's what you needed for a guy like Nixon. He was seeding, seeding with inner worms. I mean, that whole thing about like, he used to drive pat around when she was on dates with other guys.

That's amazing. That a guy could... He had an article completely. I mean, that's like Ted Cruz land, you know? That's like just... No, it was at that time it was harder to get a date, you know? And he was. And you have to understand it was a depression. Or you could see it very romantically and saying, you know, he thought Pat was the girl for him and he was willing to do anything, you know. Yeah, but he never made her happy in the end.

That's what sad about the story. I'm going by what her the way she projected. I bet everybody has a good first year, right? He was a driven possessed. Yes, man. And that's what was interesting about the character. Right. It's just when I made the Bush movie, which I love too, the movie.

Yeah, I love that too. I knew I was going to a lower dimension because Bush does not have the intelligence of Nixon. No, no. He's watching a satire about how dumb this guy, right. have the intelligence of Nixon. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,c, uh, cowardice, I suppose. But what I'm saying is that the power of our country is a sad that I have badly, not since John Kennedy, the leadership in this country has really gone down the hill, down to tubes. And we, we need good men in office. And we don't get them and women, we're getting and women and trans. Yay. Okay. Every race we need a good leadership. That's what we need. But, you know, as many people have pointed out,

the leadership is always a reflection of the people. So when you say we need good leadership like the system, the system sucks, yes. The system that you're elected is not democratic. It's based on power. It's based on money and power. And well, you get elected because you do the right moves at the right time. I mean governing is power. Governing is exercise power.

You can't go to those guys in school, but you can't take power out of the equation or else you can't govern. You need some power, right? Do you remember what school did you go to in New Jersey? I went to, uh, uh, uh, Palskack Kells High School, elementary school, Holdram School and River Valley, New Jersey. Do you remember the guys in the class in the fifth, sixth grade, seventh grade, one of of the student counsel presidents. Yes. And how they would lobby. Brown nosing, smarmy. And they get something in my case, they would give money.

Yeah. They would lend money to people. We're a grade grubbers like fucking, they become Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley and all these fucking Harvard educated those people. Oh, you went to Harvard, right? I went to Yale. Yeah. Same thing. They was I went to Yale. Yeah. Same thing. Bush's class. Right. Six years. I mean, not that I knew him, but I know the type. When they he's entitled, when they ran the campaign against John Kerry, and they turned John Kerry,

a legitimate war hero into the somehow that was such a chilling moment because they took the guy's best attribute and through media and the stupidity of the people convinced that the guy who avoided going to Vietnam, because of his father's strengths, was the war hero, and the other guy was the schmuck. That was amazing. Amazing. And it echoed George McGovern campaign.

McGovern was a genuine war hero and a pilot who dropped his arms over Germany. He just really saw the action, saw the shit. Yeah. And George MacGovard, I don't know if you met him, but he was a loveliest of men. I'm sure. Yeah. He actually supported Nixon in the movie. He wrote a whole editorial about it in the New York papers or something.

It was really a lovely man. General, kind, saw the world. He was ridiculed. You thought, if you believed the campaign, you would have thought he was a whimp, but some kind of weakling. He wasn't. He was a man of principle. Lincoln couldn't get elected in this fucking world. No. Oh, of course not. So, who do you, uh, what do you pal around with? Who are your friends? I would pal around with George Montgomery. I'd pal around John Kerry. But who do you?

I'm curious, you know, I admire when you have friends in politics that you talk to my friends. Not really. You don't have friends with politicians. You know, that is so interesting. You have many friends in Poland? You're kind of right. I mean, yeah, because it's just too risky. Right. They were always politically correct. And I guess their friends would be... They invited me to the White House, but I had to go in the back door.

That's not being a friend. I had to go in the back door unofficially. Yeah. Because you didn't want me on the agenda. Because you're so toxic? Yes. At that time. From what?

1995 or so. What, from what movie? I was trying to get his corporation on Nixon and me. Oh, OK. And he gave it to me, actually. Right. But quietly. Huh.

Oh, I. Ha, ha, ha. Yeah. It's a, you know, people I really feel like they're born with a certain chip in them and like they then just become that like like agents, like it like a William Morris agent. You they're out of business.

Okay, with WME. Okay, but I'm just saying you can spot one a mile away. I'm not saying that it's disrespectful. I'm just like it. Oh yeah. I'm an agent. Of course. Well, then disrespectful. I'm just like, oh, yeah. You have an agent? Of course. Well, then, he looks just like yours.

You really think, no, I think agents are human. They're human, I'm not saying that. I'm talking to you. You always go to the extreme. Of course, they're human. I'm not claiming that they're androids. They just look like them. I think that's cruel.

Your agents listen to this and may see it. You know, you have to hurt your feelings. Trust me, that was funny. It's just like it when you're funny because funny is money. I've heard that talk said money is money. Money is money. No, funny is money. You know, so, but...

No, I feel... I feel agents have a soul. And I think if you I really do this is not a controversy you're making I think you're revealing yourself so much with this look at you making a controversy out of this I yes agents have a soul why I give me you know that joke this to treat all people as if it's individuals. Yes, but there's two agents standing on the sidewalk in Beverly Hills and a beautiful woman walks by and one of them says, boy, I'd like to fuck her. And the other one says, yeah, I don't want. Okay.

Man. All right. So does your wife make you laugh? She's hilarious. She's hilarious. She doesn't speak English, I like her pigeon English. Oh, after all these years, how long she... She's a special, I love her.

When I... she puts her clothes on or whatever. You know, she's just my dream. As I said, that doll under the Christmas tree, right? In 1950s, that doll came to be, right? Came to you? Came to be in my life. Came to be, yeah. It's an amazing rosebud, whatever you want to call it.

You think you manifested that? Yeah, I do. You think that's a possible one. You can never get a doll for Christmas, and whoever remembers it, and it happened in 1955, with strange, strange story. But do you think people can manifest things

like if they think of it? I do, in some strange way. It's superstitious in some way, sure. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, the older I get, the more I'm like anything is possible. I would say that's true. Even though I don't really think that because it sort of gets close to that book, The Secret. It was a very popular book. It was just this idea that you basically, you know, if you just like think how much you really want something, it'll come to you. I'm sure they would say I'm exaggerating or somehow.

Well, that's nice to believe. I'd like to believe that. Yeah, everything would be nice to get ice cream in the mail, but, you know, I'm not saying she was a doll because she's got, who? She's feisty and she's got her own whole life. She's got a soul, you know? She's not a doll. Or an agent.

But that's, I mean, don't misunderstand. Anyway, you were talking about Hamas earlier. Yes! I want to hear your diet driver, God. What? Diet driver, Hamas. Like, you could not be hard enough on Hamas right now, or ever, but right now.

I would like an Iraq. Remember when they had the story, George Bush repeated the story? You remember the story in Iraq? We went into Iraq because they were cruel to the Kuwaitis. Well, they went to the hospitals in Kuwait and took the babies out of these incubators. Yeah, incubators. And through them on the floor, vashed their brains out. That was told to the American public.

They went crazy. That was another motivation to go and fight the Iraqis in Kuwait. Turned out to be not true. The person who told the story was the daughter of the ambassador of Kuwait to the United Nations. She got on television and lied completely, made up this ridiculous story to excite the people, made up by Hill and Nolton, the public relations firm. What was the method in your envisioning of it, that how Hamas gently killed these 1400

percent? I don't, I wasn't there, I don't know the details, I haven't followed it as closely as you have. But I like, when you start saying that stuff repeatedly, and you have Americans like Biden saying it, then you know something is off. Because it was off. The government lies, bush lied about that. Bush lied about it. You know an attack happened.

So that's not a lie. They did break through the walls of Gaza, come into Israel and murder civilians in Israel in every, they just went house to house. Yes. Pant up anger release when I mean, you want to call it. You seem to want to get to the second issue, so let's do it your way. Okay. Well, I've been to Israel several times and they've been very kind to me and I got it.

They just recently gave me a life achievement award at the festival in Jerusalem. Really? And you didn't get the one from Mecca? No, not yet. Yeah, because they would never show your movies there. No, they have. Because women show their arms. No, they have. In Saudi Arabia. Yeah, it's shame. I've met him the chief there Chiefs that you're right He's like an American you're really dumb It's chief MBAs actually MBAs is a brilliant was a bring a man and and very

He knew more about nuclear energy at that point because I was talking to him about that. I was talking to him. You know what I said? The fact or later, of Saudi Arabia. Yeah, you know what I said to him? I was very bold. I was in the room with my producer.

I said, you know, if you support this documentary, you're really going to get a name as a man who's not always about oil. It's about nuclear energy is better than oil. It's a better form of energy. Sell your oil to other countries if you have to, but support nuclear energy. And he said, I know a lot about nuclear energy.

I built four reactors in UAE, the United Arab Emirates. He built four, he financed four reactors in the Emirates. That's how forward thinking he was, and he knew a lot about the science of it. So total supporter of energy. And it's ironic that he's got this oil corruption kingdom, but as you know, that's the way you talk. You talk to them like Arbachov did, so you get them to think about these things. And then he thinks about, okay, I'll do a nuclear sid sideline and then I you know, do you think he killed that reporter?

We have to do a show Let me just remember Henry the second Let me guess with Bill Marren Oliver Stone Do you think Henry the second when he Henry the second now? We're going back I know exactly who said II is back it. Yeah, among other things. But what a great play back it. But he said, well someone, what disguise a pain in the ass he's breaking my balls. Right. He's going to get rid of who we're talking about.

Right. But that's like said, like Hillary Clinton said, who's going to kill fucking a son? You know, it's the same fucking rap and they did go out and tried to kill us. But, you know, it doesn't matter. I mean, the King leaders sometimes speak out of hand. They sometimes say, they're emotional like we are too. Right. So I don't know. I don't know the answer to that. Even if he had, I still talk to the guy and murder is murder.

Like Trump said, people murder people. And you gotta, it's a modern world, you know, it's the world, not, you see, old world, it's not the modern world, it's always happened since the beginning of time. So let's not be hypocritical and moralistic about it. I mean, America doesn't kill people. We kill so many fucking people.

Right, that's true. And that's what Trump said when Bill O'Reilly asked him that question. And if a Democrat had said it, they would have thrown him out of town. But somehow Republicans have this sort of patriotic behavior. Republican, so I hate them. I hate them. I hate them more still. Yes. But I mean, they are more hateful. But boy, you know, I'm an honest broker about the other side unlike so many people. Well, how do you like Netanyahu? You know what? Netanyahu fucked up so bad. He had, talk about like fucking up your one big thing,

which was, I'm Mr. Security, I will keep you safe. And in Israel, the toughest neighborhood in the world, that's a pretty good calling card. I mean, they've had four elections, like in two years, he squeaks through, they don't like him, but it's like, okay, we don't like you, but you're going to do the one fundamental job that we need

done in Israel, which is security. When you fuck that up to the level, that thing was fucked up. Yes, if there wasn't, if they weren't in the crisis right at this moment where they can't change leaders, they would kick him out tomorrow and they will as soon as it dies down. But and I always liked him, but this is a fuck up, you know, it's like, so why did you like him? Why did I like him?

Yeah. Because I thought he, although he was maligned a lot, I thought when you live in Israel, you understand, it isn't, they throw around that word existential a lot in this country now. Somebody really fucked up when they taught a lot of people that word, because they used it for, means there is a threat

to your very existence. Israel lives in an existential state. We do not, because as George Bush said, we got oceans to protect us. And we can go shopping. We have a very privileged life. Yes, okay. But that is not the case for Israel.

They live in an ex-sendage. And so I wasn't unhappy about having a president of Israel who was on the security conservative. I'm a bad-ass, but I will keep the shit to shoe level. Kind of guy. I think it was for there. But you will keep the shit to shoe level, kind of guy. I think it was for there. But Marshall Dylan and Gunsmoke, right? Well, this, yeah, because it is a Western town.

But this thing with the courts, you know, a lot of people really feel like he went too far there. And maybe he did. I mean, that's something. Yeah, he has a defense minister who was the interior minister. Yeah, he's got an extremist. And he's got a lot of training at all. Yeah, he's got the hard right.

And it's, you know, same as Trump did. You know, I interviewed him in 2002 to my documentary called Persona Non-Grada, which maybe you'll get a kick out of it if you see it because it's a very funny, it ends with the Arifat. We get to Arifat and it's a very, as you know, it was right and then we get kicked out of the country because Ramallah is happening the day we get there and we have to escape from Ramallah otherwise we'll get caught in that siege which has been 30, 40 days. So anyway, you are not afraid.

I interviewed Netanyahu, and in the middle of the interview, he was right, he was talking about the Palestinian terrorists. In the middle of the interview, there was a bomb goes off outside. We're in the building, fourth, 14th floor, and we hear this bomb. And he's, that's it. And he runs to the window, and it's in the film. He runs to the window, and he says and we hear this bomb. And he's like, that's it. And he gets runs to the window and it's in the film. He runs to the window and he says, you hear them, you see them? That's what they're doing. They're blowing up that grocery store or whatever it was.

And he really had a heart on for, for, uh, terrorists. He, that was his main thing. Oh, I mean, in a sense that he sense, you talked early about projection. You know, he projected it, and it was happening in the middle of the interview. Ah, you see, here's proof. And it was like, that was not the exact situation it was going on. It was true.

It was happening. There was terrorist actions. But the vast part of the Palestinian population was accommodating to integration with the Israelis. It's a shame that the terrorists, in a sense, have brought the extremist positions, but it hasn't been helped by Netanyahu's extremities, too. He answers them the same way that they answer. But I was watching this movie the other day.

What was I call it, I think, something like, how it's the day where they pick players and the NFL draft, draft day, I guess. So, you know, and it just reminded me that people make bargains. And then sometimes that bargain isn't on the table the very next day, because he gets on the phone with the other general manager as they do in football and he's like, okay, I'll give you our quarterback for two first round picks and they don't do anything that day

and he calls back the next day, okay, let's do it. No, that was yesterday's deal. Things have changed. Now I want your punter to. And that had it happen with real estate, you know? That was last week, You didn't buy it. Israel's the only place where they had the deal on the table in 1947. Let's split up the country. The Jews were like, okay, we'll do that. We'll take half. Israel was very small. The way it was

originally drawn up. They said, no, we'll attack you and try to kill you and take it all. They failed. And they attacked again in 56 and 67 and 73 and they are still attacking. They could have peace so easily. Just stop attacking. Do you really think after all this time, this, from the river to the sea, really, you're going to get rid of Israel. They're going to just disappear. What a deluded way to look at the world,

even if you believed in it. Like, Israel is not going anywhere. Let's deal with that reality. There's no river to the sea. You're not going to get from the river to the sea. This is the fundamental problem. They don't ever make a deal. I'm saying what does that mean, river to the sea?

That's what they chant all the time. It's a way to say Israel what does that mean, river to the sheep? That's what they chant all the time. It's a way to say Israel is no more from the river, the Jordan River to the Mediterranean sea. In other words, we will have all that land, which you never had because, well, it goes back to the Indian problem. What do you think about our taking the Indian land? Well, the Jews are the Indians of that land.

They were there 1500 years before Muhammad was born. That's the way the policy is still. Well, there was a, this is factual. There Jerusalem was the capital, King David's capital, and a thousand BC. Muhammad is born in 570 AD. Yes. Okay. There was a continuous Jewish population, Jerusalem. Yes. Okay. It was there continuous Jewish population, Jerusalem. Yes. Okay. But there were Kenyans and Palestinians. Well, there were cavemen before that.

I'm sure. How do you know? Well, they were, I'm sure, weren't there cavemen everywhere before they were humans? I think you're a little discriminating. What about the crusader? What about the crusaders in 1099? Oh. 1099.

Yeah. It's a big deal. Why not just charge $11? What? No. Yes, I know the taking him to Jerusalem. Yeah, it was slaughtered. Everything. Right.

That was the second crusade. First. First crusade. Right. Pope Innocent, is that for claim? I forgot the name, but I think it was because I was a great name. It's such a great name for that. Yes. But since then, every crusade failed,

and this is another crusade. Now, I admit to you that this crusade is, it's a very complicated story, but the guilt, the Germany faces, is ironic, the Germany ends up attacking the Hamas and saying, you're driving out, you know, they're taking it. Netanyahu, he's saying, look, 2.5 million people get better, get out of town now and fast. And it's never been done.

The Germans wouldn't have done that in their worst day. In their worst nightmare. No, I said. This is why Netanyahu is fucking too much. He's crazy that way. And I spent a lot of time with what's it meant, Shimon Perez. So I know the other side of the Israeli peace party,

although a lot of people distrusted Shimon too. No, I mean, the pro-esthetic of Shimon. I can't even imagine. I can't even imagine. I could have had their own country a number of times, most recently, 2000, the Oslo Accords, 97% of the West Bank was the deal perfect. No, no deal ever is. But if they had taken that deal and then shown the Israelis that, okay, we can live side by side without importing fucking rockets from

Iran and shooting them at you and we can police our own militants, then maybe we can grow into more like normal neighbors, but Israel is going to have to keep a little eye on you because you do nothing but try to attack them and make them cease to exist. Is that not reasonable? Yeah, in 2008, Hamas won the election in that West Bank. Well, they won their first election, and then there was no more elections. Yeah, because Israelis didn't want it.

They weren't, they pulled out. Hamas was the legitimate political faction in that area. And the Israelis... Well, when not accept that, they made Hamas into a terrorist organization. Well, that's the thing. You know, every single point you mention is counterpoint. But when people say like, well, you know, it's just the Islamic world, you're an at-harbble, Islamophobel, and you know, you're, no, I'm just talking about what the reality is.

The reality is that very often when you give people Muslim populations in lots of different countries, this has happened, the choice, they will elect in Egypt, it was the Muslim Brotherhood. Gaza, it was... And they were thrown out by a dictator. By a dictator, right. Gaza, it was, you know, Hamas, Algeria, it happened. I remember, there was, let's have the people have a say, and then the army has to go, you know what, the people kind of fucked up. And we don't want this very Islamic faith-based government, and they take over. And that's the problem.

That's the problem with the two-state solution, is that no one, the truth is it will never work. That two-state solution is bullshit. But I'm also saying governments are a reflection of the people here as well as there. US government too has been backing Israel too much and giving it way too much credibility and saying we're supporting you no matter what.

And that's seeing, we're making so many enemies throughout the world, Biden is flying in there like some Superman and he's gonna be, he's gonna find out the truth. So you'll never vote for Biden again. Never. Never. Never. Never. Never. No matter who it runs, he'll be dead, but some I vote again. Well, but we wish him well, Oliver. We wish him well. But so even Trump, you'd vote. I think Biden has got some psychopathic problem with Russia. I really do. You think he does?

Yes, I do. I do. You say he? Yes, Biden. OK, so, but you would vote for Trump over Biden? In the Russia matter, yes. But not necessarily. Well, that's not on the ballot.

I would vote for Bobby Kennedy. And I have come out for what he's not going to be on the ballot. How do you know? Yeah, that attitude is terrible, but I understand what he's better to vote. I think it's your vote. I voted for Jill Stein in 16 because I could not stand Hillary Clinton. You probably love. I, or just very different people.

I don't love her, but I don't hate her at all. I think, I think in general, if my in general, do I have her favorability rating? I do. I think Hillary Clinton is a sincere policy wonk, smart, hard worker who just wants to fix problems and she has paid the price of being a woman or a Clint as my father. I know, but they just make her or a Clintus by the way. I know.

But they just make her into a witch that she is not. She is, if she has any flaw, it's that she's boring. It's the fact that they make her, it just says more about the people who forgot her. You forgot what she did in the secretary of state. You really don't. She lied about being under sniper fire in Bosnia? Oh, she did. What she did.

No, she was antagonistic to us. She created problems with Russia. She created problems, huge problems in Libya. She got rid of a guy who was working in Libya and Libya since its destabilization. Don't forget Benghazi. I mean, she should have been on the phone to every Benghazi.

That's nothing compared to knocking down Libya. Yeah, that's a major problem. It actually still goes on and on and on. Africa's a mistake too. The Africans don't like her. Okay. You know, you have to understand America is making enemies everywhere. It's this went by news too. When you're home with your wife. Yeah. Is this what you talk about? Never? None of this. She's lovely. That means I'm not. You're actually fun. I like it too. I like you But look if I never get to see you again

I know I just never know not because we're old although partly But also because our lives go in different directions of I never get to see you again For what you did for the country a rich kid Who fucking went to be at NAMM. We got to that with George Bush and then we got off the subject. And then all the entertainment you give to me, you know, like all the movies that were just exactly hit that thing that I need in my life with. And until history, it's a, and untold history, yes, but like the movies that were like,

you know, entertaining as fuck, but also, you know, nutritious and about something. And, you know, I hope you go back to making some of those because I still think you got it in you. Tell some of your studio friends to help me. Yeah, I know. It's a fucking fucked up world, isn't it? Not, I mean, our world, not the world, but also our world of like these strikes and the unhappiness and AI coming in. Well, we'll see what happens. You know, I was told today that there is such a thing

called AI porn. And now I watch porn, so I'm not trying to like, well, my friends, I watch plenty of porn. I've never seen this where they put, and they say it does not look fake. Any actress you can put in and put their face on and make it so that looks like we risk where this when it's happening is getting railed, you know,

in an porn movie and her voice. Yeah, but then she'd sue, right? That's... I asked that exact same question in the meeting today when I heard this. I'm like, how did they... And they said, well, this is coming. Well, it's like that porn star who's fucking with it. No, yeah, it's just amazing what they're...

I mean, the actors, they are not wrong to be paranoid about this AI because you know and they kind of like did it to themselves because you saw in the Irishman did you see that yes, okay D aging D aging Which doesn't really work because their faces young but they yeah, there's something wrong with the exactly spirit Yeah, there's something wrong with the exact experience. It's weird. That's weird, it's not a sync. You know, it's, and also, it's so funny. You can't like have someone who's not Asian, well, Asian, that wouldn't work for this. So someone who's not gay, play a gay person,

you know, that kind of thing, whether you have to be the exact thing, you know, a trans person, that's to play a trans person. And yet, we're putting out a work young actors so we can hire 80-year-olds and de-aging them. You think that would be a bigger issue with them. Like, can we just have a law that, you know,

if someone's roughly 35, they can't be played by De Niro. No, am I really off base here? I can't comment on it because I don't know enough about it. You know, I really don't know all the issues. And when it comes to a negotiation thing, have you read all the paragraphs, it's just mind-boggling.

Right, it's just difficult. All right, legal shit. Climb. Well, I'll root for you to make me another movie because I would love it, whatever you do. Wish me luck. Thank you. Alright.