Club Random with Bill Maher - Rainn Wilson | Club Random with Bill Maher

Episode Date: July 9, 2023

Bill Maher and Rainn Wilson on the time Rainn saw the face of God, Bill’s love of The Office, how The Office writers created Dwight Shrute, comparing the end of The Office to the end of Succession, the unrelenting darkness of the British sensibility, Rainn’s book Soul Boom, whether Rainn would be happy without therapy, and why America should buy the Amazon jungle. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Clown right now. You're comfortable? I am very comfortable. See, I didn't even let you get up all the way. Yeah, well, it's uncomfortable. I'm a little too to be. I'm kind of ungainly. In all honesty, I've noticed I've started grunting

when I like time I choose and get up, because I've officially hit my late 50s. You know that you do that kind of grandpa thing, but I'm kind of like, well, I'll get to that in a minute. You really don't have to be that way because I'm older than you and I'm not that way at all You're not no fucking out, but you're married Yeah, that's what it is but no one ever says

You say ungainly no one ever says I'm gayly I'm gonna say that you're gay and I'm ungainlygainly. How's that? I don't even know what gainly is. I don't think, yeah. Yeah. Un-gainly, it must be the opposite of un-gainly. Yeah, gainly, yeah. But no, it's ever-gainly. Let's work that in, ladies and gentlemen, viewers. Let's work that in the vocabulary.

Someone will spry if that were fit. What, but how old are you? 57. What about liquor? You're having fun. No, I'm sober. Oh, then you're completely fine. I had a bad, good, good, but how old are you? 57. What about liquor? You're happy with it?

No, I'm sober. Oh, but you're completely fine. I had a bad dope trip in my 20s. I don't know if it was laced with something, but I was going through a really bad time, and I decided to wake and bake on Christmas morning while living in an abandoned beer brewery in Brooklyn, like a squatter.

And I had a super bad trip. I started shaking, I was sweating. My muscles were like contracting in my arms. My heart was racing. What year is this? 90, 91. Time out. And then I, we have not done yet.

But it happened in the 90s. Yeah. So it was a flu. But I'm not done with my story. Oh, sorry. Because then I saw the face of God. Oh. And then I swore to the face of God that I would never smoked

up again. What do you look like? What does this face look like? It looked like, in all seriousness, it looked like a Mark Rothko painting. It looked like an abstract sunset like over the Tahitian ocean. That's funny, because I always thought God would look like James Woods.

Because he's also a prick, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like, God's a prick and kind of the same way James would. You know, I mean, if, well, if you read the book, it was brilliant in that there was a, he, he had a time, he had a period of time when he was doing some of the best acting. Absolutely. Yeah. I'm almost always as a prick. Yes. So how much we can call that acting is, is under discussion, but yes, he absolutely well. Zero fear of James Woods watching this podcast.

And I have a zero fear of what James Woods can do to me. That's what I play. That's what I get it. No, no, you know what? I would love if James Woods did this podcast, by the way. I have all stripes on this show. Did you hear a story about the 9-11 pilot practice thing from back in the day from 9-11?

Who we talking about, Jim Woods? Yeah. What do you mean his story? James Woods was on a plane to New York with the guys who flew into the Twin Towers before they flew into the Twin Towers and he saw them doing a practice run.

And he reported it to like the FDA, and he was telling the story around the time, and he was like, these guys are like going to hijack a plane. Well, see the problem is he reported it to the FDA. If he had reported it to the FAA, a lot more people would have lived through 9-11. They were like, listen, but stop calling us. If you've got bad pork, call us. This is the wrong department. It's like, no, you can't listen to me.

Yeah, now there's a great plot for a movie. So are you saying that James Woods fabricated this story? No. So you think it's real. It's legit. Yeah, I believe it. Yeah, I was so you think it's real. It's legit. Yeah, I believe it's absolutely legit. Yeah, I probably is too. Well, I mean, we do know that they were known to be people

who were asking for instruction and how to take off, but no need for land. Landing, they would sleep, tastes nice. A slight, hot med, wake up. We're going on landings now. And the name is Muhammad Kublui. All right. A slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, a slight, it was like a teen-caper movie. It's like, please, God, get me through this and I won't ever smoke pot again. I won't ever do drugs again.

I was doing a lot of drugs at the time. Well, let me amend that. I was doing some drugs at the time, but too many for a 20-year-old. So. Right. So, if you smoke pot, if so you know what if you smoke pot It's not that you would fear that you would have an episode like that again, right?

What you fear you're saying is that you would Anger God because you'd be a waltz you're on the deal. No, I think I feel like that's what I'm getting I know I know I know right. I know that's where you're going now That's it. That's not that's not right. It wasn't drugs. Drugs in alcohol were not good for me. They did not make my life better at all. They made them profoundly worse. So as I kind of went along that journey,

I was like, you know what? I don't need any, you know, a little caffeine, no other medications for me. Well, I can tell almost or I would guess by looking at you that you don't drink because you may think you're ungainly, but you've hardly aged. You don't look, your face does not look like,

you know, you're generically middle-aged, you could be, you could definitely place someone in their 40s. Easily. I have a baby, I have a fat baby face. I don't have like a chiseled James Wood face like you. It's a joke. It's a little James Wood face.

Yeah, you have like a gnarly like etch. Oh, that James Wood is in every, you're like one of the ants. You're like one of the tree peepers from Lord of the Rings. He's not a good looking man. So I don't, I, you're not. You're not pockmarked. No, you're not pock-read. Oh, did we have to go there? You're not. I know, but now James Wood is like, you know, I, you're not pockmarked. No, you're not pock-readbooked. Oh, did we have to go there?

You're not. I know, but now James Woods is like, you know, I was okay when you just said I was a prick like God, but now we have to go to, you know, that's not. I gave him his props. I know, story. Hey, you know what, let me give you these props, James Woods, even with that face of yours,

you were attractive to women. You know why? Because women are not like men, news flash. I mean, of course they appreciate good looks and sometimes they do fall for it. It certainly doesn't hurt. But they can fall for a guy like that because he's sexy.

He may not be great looking, but to them, sexiness is deeper, because they're deeper. And so you can be like Humphrey Bogart. Was also a face like two miles of bad road. So we're really finally spent so much. Spencer Tracy. Spencer Tracy wasn't bad looking.

He just was mediocre looking. Okay. You know, but yes, they just appreciate a guy with a pair of balls. It's greater. It's better, of course, that they're good looking too. I think it's edge. They like it. It's a edge, right?

Yeah. And James Woods had it. You know, he was sexy to women. And I mean, he's always like getting with someone who's way, well, not in my world, but too young, mostly for society. You know, like I think he was like 59 when he got with a friend of his daughter who was like 20 or something. My God. Where are we going? Well, by the way, everyone under 45 is Googling James Woods right now because he's not. He's like, he's relevant to us. He's, let's face it.

Well, he's definitely not relevant to us, but we, but we are fans of his work. And I hope you would agree with me. I don't know how undocumented you are. I hope not too much that we, we don't have to have share politics to be friends with people. I agree. 100%. Oh, good.

1000%. Because I cannot stand the attitude of, if you don't agree with me, I unfriend you. Remember the whole thing about like someone shook hands with George Bush. Yes. Jr. At a like the young open or something like that. Ellen. You shook hands with the war criminal.

Ellen. It was Ellen. Yeah. You don't want to acknowledge it. It was Ellen. Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan,

Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan,, Alan, Alan, Alan, Alan like they. Hey, George, Michelle Obama. Yeah, both of you, Mama's. And, you know, who Ruth Bader Ginsburg was very close. Scalia. Scalia.

And so you're gonna stunt me, Mayor. What? You're not gonna stunt me. Did you call me Mayor? Did you say I'm Bill Mayer? I edited it to make it sound like I said, Marr. Wow, first you're late and now you mispronounce my name. Wow.

I know. I still like you, but you were great on politically incorrect. Thanks. And you were great on your show. That ended a while ago though. Anyway, I have a show now. So, by the way, I was, I know you hear this like a zillion times a day, but I was like the biggest fan of the office. Nice.

Oh my God. I remember we have taped on Friday since the beginning with real time, Thursday your show was on. And so Thursday was my really hard cram night. I would like work my tail off, tape the show. This is the old DVR days. And it was like what I was like, it was the carrot at the end of my long work night. I am exhausted, I'm getting into bed,

and I know I checked it 10 times, I know I devoured the office and you know there's almost nothing as good as like going to bed like with an actual laugh, a laugh out loud. I feel like it's therapeutic, I'm just pulling that out of my ass but like if I can I like to end my TV watching and I was something that'll make me laugh. I think the word you use therapeutic is really interesting because I can't tell you how many times a day online and in person, I hear from people, thank you for the office, the laughter that it gave me, that it gave my family, healed us during COVID.

And that's not, you know, when I signed up for the office, it's like, I want to buy a house, Bill Mayer. I want to buy a house. I don't. I, I, I, you know, I, I wasn't thinking about like giving laughter as a therapeutic remedy and a balm and a sav to a hurting populace. But what an honor it was to be a part of something like that. No, I mean, I've had a lucky life, so I don't need need like a laughter because I worked 12 hours cutting the heads off chickens on a conveyor line or something.

I'm been spared that kind of life, but not everyone has. So I can see why people who love that show the way I did, it would mean even more, because you really, but even for my wonderful lucky life, I remember just all those Thursday nights getting into bed just boned tired from working on what I work on just mentally exhausted. And that was like the fact that it was on Thursday. And of course, back then we were a little more tied to when things were on. You know, it just and you couldn't like binge it or anything. Yeah, I had to wait. And all those people, I mean, it was such a large cast, but they were all perfect.

I mean, you got to play with such an A-team. I mean, obviously, you write at the top of it. I mean, you fuck that character in half from the first moment. And it was so specific, you know. It was just like, I had this vague idea of Pennsylvania Dutch. And, you know, there's just the, but and everything you hit on was like, I never thought of it like that specifically, but that makes sense for my vague idea of what these weirdos in this area, not quite like riding the buggy,

but adjacent. Right, exactly. You were always, because obviously you're working in the office, you're not working, you're not there, but you're still rooted in there. Yeah, that was like, it was so different than any, I mean, was that how it was written or,

you know, it's so, he's what's so great. They must have had that idea of a character. Well everyone everyone sings the praises of Greg Daniels our showrunner and I'm going to do it again because the way he worked and the way he synthesized comedy ideas is like no one I worked with before or since and I brought in when I first met with him and the writers I brought in, when I first met with him and the writers, I brought in a bunch of family photos and I have my relatives, their farmers on both, Midwestern farmers on both sides of my family. They're also really white trashy. And so, you know, uncles and Camaros and stuff like that.

And they were, and he was like, he's like, you know, you know, Camaro or some kind of hot, he saw the photo and he's like, and the farmer, he's like, you know, you know, he's like, you know, Camaro or some kind of hot, he saw the photo and he's like, and the farmer, he's like, farmers. And he's like, and my grandparents used to farm beets in Poland. Beets, remember that. And he was like, he'll be a beet farmer. And so is this always this synthesizing these ideas.

And during my audition for Dwight, I literally set a line, which was, he just had me improv as I could talking to him. So I was like, my name is Dwight Shrute. My father's name, Dwight Shrute. His father's name, Dwight Shrute. His father's name, Dwight Shrude Amish. That was just an improv that I did,

just kind of like fucking around. And they're like, that's great, let's make him omnis. So there's synthesizing, there wasn't like formulated in a writer's room, like this would be funny, it's kind of like. But not exactly omnis, again, adjacent because that's what your thing is saying, like four generations back,

the name was slightly different, just like we see all the time in America the way we evolve. I mean, my name, M-A-H-E-R, when you go to Ireland, you see that name a lot, but it's also M-E-A-G-H-E-R. There's like a lot of variations of it with more letters. So, you know, we evolve. And when that Dwight guy would do something in the modern office setting,

that's what made it, to me, was the great comedy of it, was that you're in this modern urban, not urban, but suburb in setting, but it's contemporary. And this guy, even though he's wearing the suit and a tie, there is something 19th century there. You just don't see that particular thing on sitcoms a lot. Yeah.

And... Yeah, so when he brings in a dead goose or half a dead deer... And when he fell for that, another awesome character. What was the blonde... Angela? When he fell for that, another awesome character. What was the blonde to? Angela. Angela, who was, excuse me, but the nightmare girlfriend. Like, and of course, if you ever described a woman like that,

you'd be canceled in two seconds. But you could actually show her. That's true. You know, I thought of that. You have to pretend that all women everywhere are perfect ethereal creatures. I mean, they are. But of course, they're humans, like everybody else,

and there's some horrible ones, and that to me, and of course, we've all known, especially when we're young and we're dating, like whoever likes us is the standard, when I was in, certainly in my 20s, which is like, if someone likes me and I find them pretty, that's good enough. And then some of them, I was tortured, right? There were girls who absolutely tortured because they knew they could get away with it.

And that girl who tortured you, she's just never nice. Never nice to you. But hot sex. That was clear that it was like insane chemistry. And they were so wonderfully odd and suited each other in their in their oddness. Like that's what I loved about it. Like she started as like this uptight Christian bitch. And that was like the kind of cliche that she started. And then Angela grew and morphed. And lots of different facets came out. And that's another great thing about the office. There's a lot of sitcoms. Characters different facets came out. And that's another great thing about the office.

There's a lot of sitcoms, characters start a certain way and they end a certain way. And you don't learn anything more about them. You don't see other facets, other nuances of the characters. But the office characters, I won't say they grew and matured, but you just learn more about them. And it made them more three-dimensional. And I think that's added to the lasting value of the show. But, you know, towards the end of the show, you realize, like, oh, Dwight and

Angela, there's no one else they could ever possibly be with. And how did it resolve? I don't remember. They get married. They have kids. Right. And Dwight rolls the office at the end. He gets the management gig. Yeah. Almost like succession. Yeah. The opposite of succession. Why? Why opposite? Because in that, because Kendall didn't, did you watch the last one? Yeah, it's Tom. It's Kendall didn't get it.

Right. And why should Dwight? He's because he's been number two for 10 seasons. Everyone was rooting for Dwight. Oh, yeah. I guess I mean, I was rooting for Kendall, even though he killed the guy. Yeah, I forgot he was number right with Michael Scott. He was because he was. Yeah. And then Andy came in above him and he was number two to Andy for the last couple years. Yeah. Robert California, he was always the number two. So the audience was chomping at the bit for Dwight to, and I do think like with succession that last episode, spoiler alert, everybody knows by now. I really felt

the Britishness of the creators and directors of succession with that finale. That is because an interesting statement. It got because it was so unrelentingly dark and hopeless. And there had it been an American showrunner, there would have been something for us, for those Roy kids, for us to believe in. Instead, you've got Roman smirking with a martini, just like he started, just, you know, pathetic Kendall suicidal. His light, the rug has been ripped out from under him. He has zero hope, even though he's got $3 billion in the bank. And, and Shiv has sold her soul to her husband that doesn't love her and to the boss, the backstabbed are there's, it's all hopelessness. Unless you're a huge Tom fan, it's total hopelessness and despair.

An American showrunner would have been like, Kendall and Roman get together and like, let's go buy Pierce after all. Yeah. And they walk off and it would have been something for you to go, oh, I want, you know what I mean? Because that was me. I was really big-hearted about it. I was devastated.

I was depressed for two days after that finale. Really? Yeah. But did you like it? Did you think it was good? No, I thought it was unreasonably hopeless. It didn't need to be that hopeless. Yes, it's a tragedy. Yes, they're fucked up. They're traumatized kids, they weren't loved, they have the worst mother and the worst father in the world. And they have the most corrosive sibling rival where you've ever seen. But at the same time, there's humanity there. And why not as a storyteller just give something to the audience that shows us that, they'll survive, they'll get through this. They'll find a way to thrive because that's what we humans do. We have terrible adversities and setbacks,

and then we find a weed and a crack in the sidewalk we find a way to keep going on. Well, that's bleak. I mean, I hate to be a bit of a a beautiful, dead horse, but maybe really try the pont again because it's, it wasn't that bad. First of all, we don't know what's going to happen to them. Yes, we saw them at the end of a bad day.

Again, as you point out, they have billions of dollars and I don't think Kendall is going to kill himself and he does good fucking riddance. You know, I, I am, why would I care? Whoa. Why would I care about that prick? First of all, he is a murderer, so he probably should get the death penalty

for what he did. And also just from the beginning, like I almost didn't watch the series because to your point about it, the very first episode was, they were almost so bad and so unattractive to me that I was like, why am I going to watch these people? And of course, that quickly changed. But in the very first episode of the pilot, Roman writes a check for a million dollars on the ball field. Remember, they're playing, they're like, they take helicopters to this ball.

It's like a family tradition, so they can play a softball game and they need to impress into the lineup so that there's nine on one side, I guess, this Mexican kid and Roman offers him right to check for a million dollars if he will get a hit, really. And then when the kid does any rips up the chicken

front, check in front of him, I'm like, this is just so fun. And to this day, I think, I'm not sure, if that wasn't the one flaw they had in that show, was that seen in the first episode, because I was so close to like never watching that show. Because- I think there's a lot of people that didn't.

And I had to convince a lot of people like just trust me. It was just so over that. So over the top. It broke that rule of that Hollywood rule of like you gotta have likeable characters. No, that what are you talking about? That rule was broken a long time ago. Seinfeld broke that rule. And I mean, the sopranos.

The sopranos? Yeah, there's lots of people that you don't. Yeah, but how about desp people that you don't. Yeah, but how about despicable characters? How's that? Like all kind of ultimately despicable characters? You know, I bet you I don't know all these series, but if you went through like a lot of the successful scripted shows

in this century, breaking band and stuff like that, I think you find a lot of despicable character. What was the one in the Western that HBO did? and stuff like that. I think you find a lot of despicable character. What was the one in the Western that HBO did? Westworld? No, not Westworld. Deadwood, yeah. Deadwood, yeah.

Which I thought was awesome. I loved that, deadwood. Yeah, maybe they were, maybe that's a good example of, yeah, they did have redeeming quality. They weren't evil in, in, in, in, in, dead that deadwood. But, no, I think we passed that boundary, but it was just like, well, there's a, and quickly I feel like I'd never saw anything like that after that in the show. I saw them acting like pricks, but it was sort of like in the flow of where their life was, they didn't go out of their way to do something like that. To write a million dollar check to look at,

it's like, I get it, they're rich, I get it, they're assholes. This was just hitting me over the head with it. I did this show that no one saw called Backstrom and we did 13 episodes for Fox where I was like this fucked up alcoholic, brilliant detective solving a crime every 51 minutes, right? And you would have loved it. And we got canceled and the showrunner hearthands and he's like, shit, you

know, I should have written, I should have written the puppy moment. And I was like, what? The the puppy moment he goes. Yeah, because when you have like a despicable character, you know mean spirited you were I was I was kind of Shirley Crotchety mean spirited kind of semi-racist That was house. Yeah, I feel like America likes that but he was like Yeah, you got to have a little he was like was like, he should have had the moment in the pilot, right? It's like a straight puppy. And he pets the puppy or rescues the puppy. So the audience knows like, oh, because the thing with house was, he was an asshole, but he was saving people's lives every single week. Right. So you can get away with a lot when you're saving people's little kids lives, right? Cute little kids. And also that's true to something in real life, which is doctors very often very talented ones,

do have a God complex. But on the other hand, sometimes they are doing God's work, that James Woods looking prick. Do you have a late night talk show, God Complex? What would that be? I don't even know what that means. Do I think I'm the God of, well, we're not really late night. But no one wakes up and watches your show in the morning. I always watch it at night. I always watch it. It's a 10, it's a 10 30 PM show. Well, it's on a 10, but, um, you know, if you just get to the second half hour, what are you missing? But, uh, yeah, it is one of the last shows that does have a lot of appointment.

A great numbers for appointment television. That's awesome. Like seven here and you can get it at seven here on the West and 10 in New York. Yeah, that's almost completely gone. I'm telling you, we are one of the last, because even like the late night shows, people mostly watch clips of it. And they, you know, the idea of,

even like, I watch clips on YouTube, I don't. The idea, yeah. The idea of like watching that in real time would be like having root canal and Berlin. First of all, I mean a lot of it, the show itself, I would want to slip fast for it through. I mean they get a hold of something good once in a while and you know, maybe more than once in a while, but it's a little wokie these days, which is the enemy of comedy. Sometimes they break out of it, but the players were always very talented.

Well, I'm not trying to kiss your ass, but I will say that I really think your show plays an important role because you said on a show recently, you were like, I haven't changed. Like my politics have stayed the same. That's true. But the left has skewed this way and the right has skewed this way.

And so it makes it appear that you're, you've gone from like liberal to center to even inching towards center right. And I love what you're doing in terms of bridging conversations. Yeah, I don't really care. Yeah, I appreciate that. I appreciate that. I honestly don't care what people label me as because I never really was a person who fit into a label. When I first came out, they called me a libertarian. I guess I had said that word once and anyway, it was like, okay, so I'm being called libertarian by people who probably don't even know what that is,

and I haven't really looked into it that much myself. I mean, as far as, you know, I think it's because I was open about smoking pot, you know, and being single, so he's a libertarian. They don't think of it much past, should like that. So, yeah, there are parts of me that are libertarian. Yes, I always was a smoking pot part and leaving our, you know, private lives, whatever way we want as long as it doesn't

hurt anybody else. If James Woods wants to go out with his friends, 20 year old daughter and they're both happy with each other, who the fuck are you? Yeah. You know, I remember when that girl came forward and said that she lost her virginity to David Bowie After he died. Yeah, this woman remember. Yeah, she was and she was like 16 at the time But she described it in glowing terms the last thing she was was sorry about it Yeah, first of all she lost her virginity at the exact age when most kids do I was 16

Okay to a rock god to who she said was gentle loving knowledgeable At the exact age when most kids do, I was 16, to Iraq God. To who she said was gentle, loving, knowledgeable, was wearing a kimona, really? That's better than some pimply-faced, you know, stock boy at the A&P. I'm describing myself at that age, of course. Yeah, no, I mean, just let us... So, you know,

am I a liberty, I'm whatever makes sense. I don't, I can't even believe why it's so hard in this country to achieve liberal but not stupid woke, fiscally sane but not cruel. Is that really that fucking impossible? We are supported by Lumi. As I said, when we started this podcast, there is so much to be worried about in the world.

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Listen to hot and deadly wherever you get your podcasts. You know, I think part of the problem is, and it's something I address in my book. Oh, we don't have to talk about that. Let's do the book. No, no, we're here. I'm so sorry. We're promoting things. I wasn't gonna forget it, although.

It's got lots of God's stuff in it. You're gonna hate this book, Bill. I'm so glad you did. Soul boom. I eat it for breakfast. Why we need a spiritual revolution. Well, I am going to crack this. I'm actually be very interested to read this. Wow. You're really expensive time on this. I did. I spent three years writing it. You sold up all

these blank pages. Yeah. I wrote all of those words myself. Did you know before you started that it was going to be 272? I had no idea. And yet it happened. It happened. I think that's the work of God. And when I say God, I mean James 1. Okay, soul boom. Why do we need a spiritual, spiritual, spiritual?

So what kind of a book is this? This is not a novel. You know, it's a book on spirituality. It's right up your alley. Well, but spirituality is such a vague term. It is a vague term. So I you could define it in a way that I would completely embrace. Yeah. Well, I have a whole section on why I love and respect atheists in here. And I'm not an atheist. I'm a full-blown theist, but I love atheists. Is that because of that night with the pot and the God face?

I love atheists. Is that because of that night with the pot and the God faith? No, it really isn't. It was along many, many years of search and it came from a lot of personal pain and struggle and turmoil, where I really went on a kind of a spiritual quest in my 20s where I was trying to figure out why the fuck I was so unhappy.

And it's the most painful thing that I've ever had, but yeah. Yeah, you sound like my therapist. You have a therapist? I've had a therapist for 21 years. Isn't that proof it's not working? No, I'm doing great. It's amazing. Hold on a second.

Hold on a second. Eat your words. I am happy content in a rich fulfilling marriage. Oh, great. I'm doing incredible creative projects. I've got my life on track and a rich deep perspective that he, but for for 50 minutes a week for 20 years at great expense, sorry, Hollywood. I, he has helped me on this path. Okay. So it's absolutely worth the money. Okay.

So I have a near time best selling book. I have a right. Successful show on on peacock. Oh, yeah. And uh, we're gonna, we're gonna plug that. That's a need to cough drop. No. Do you need a Heimlich? Do you need a cough drop? No.

Do you need a heimlich? Do you need a hand job? No. Well, keep talking. No, I like where this is going. Free, right? No. So gone.

But wait, wait, go back. I want to get to the peacock in a minute. So don't forget that. But the thing you were saying, I'm, it's, it's first of all nice to hear you here, nice to hear someone, and especially you say, hello, much you actually appreciate and I'm enjoying your life, because a lot of people are not happy like that. But my question to you is, are you saying to me that you wouldn't be in this happy state if it wasn't for the therapist? I don't

know. I can't say that, but I do know that this guy I've been working with is really brilliant and has helped me, actually a lot of my family members have seen him as well. And it's been a great guide. And also in addition to therapy, and this is gonna blow your mind, you're gonna love this,

I'm such a Hollywood elitist, he does hypnosis, I do hypnosis. And also in addition to therapy, and this is going to blow your mind, you're going to love this. I'm such a Hollywood elitist. He does hypnosis. I do hypnosis. Well, I think a lot of them do. It's not part of how they get into your brain. I don't know. Not really.

Not really. Yeah. So I hear from what I read that therapists are not just for completely crazy people anymore. Is there any truth to that? Because when I hear therapists, I think, oh, you're nuts. So you have to go to this doctor to have been. Well, I am, I am nuts. And I've had a lot of struggles. And I've had a lot of, you know, I've had a lot of really dark times. You asked me what the darkest. Yeah, I'm not, I'm

not going to get really specific. What's the bad shit, man? Well, I'm not going to, I'm not going to, I'm not going to go completely there. but I will say that I had many sleepless nights, you know, with addiction issues and suicidal ideation and anxiety attacks that would render me shaking on the floor and I'm guessing this is all before the office. This was all before the office. Right. I had some bad times during the office too. I bet you're not as bad. Not as bad.

Because like what you, I feel like I went through the same thing which was, yeah, when I was a failing loser, life sucked and I felt sucky about it. And then when I was doing better and as successful. No, that's absolutely not true. Success came your way. I was not a failing loser. I was a struggling actor. Well, that's absolutely not true. Success came your way. I would not a failing loser. I was a struggling actor. Well, it's a failing loser. And then you became

a struggling actor is not failing loser. I was getting acting work. I was living in New York. I was a theater actor. Okay, show business is a hitter misleague, babe. Hitter miss. You know what, if you make a miss, I'm sorry, that's the term the NBA uses. It's a make or miss league show business. If you are, you know, you wanna call it working or starting or... If you're not doing well, if you're not riding high, you're riding low.

There's no middle and joke. What about being an artist? What about, because that's how I viewed myself. Oh, well. It was a theater artist. I went to theater school and I was a theater artist and I was making plays about the human condition. Yeah, but you really wanted to be on a hit show.

I didn't. I swear I didn't. Eventually I was like, fuck, I'd love to pay off these student loans. I better get some TV gigs. Of course. I didn't have aspirations to first start them at all. I better get some TV gigs. Of course. I didn't have aspirations to first start them at all. I've looked this weird, ungainly.

But that's why you're happy is because your life, you chose a, look, it's not circumstantial, dude. Who wouldn't know better? Mayor you. I'll let the audience decide. Put it in your YouTube comments. Who would know better about you? Come on, me or you.

Uh, okay, but I just think maybe you're not. When I was, when I was in the office, I spent several years really mostly unhappy because it wasn't enough. And this is what I'm looking at now and I'm realizing now like I'm on a hit show, uh, Emmy nominated every year, year, making lots of money with working with like Steve Carell and Jennifer Scher and John Krasinski and these amazing writers and incredible directors like Paul Feeig. I'm on one of the great TV shows.

People love it. Right. All time. And I wasn't enjoying it. I was thinking about why am I not a movie star? Why am I not the next Jack Black or the next Will Ferrell? And how come I can't have a movie career? Why don't I have this development deal?

That's so honest. That's so honest. And that's so what everybody to a degree in show businesses. Yeah. Everybody who's not at the absolute tippity top and e top of that tall ladder called stardom is like, yes. And you're like, why, you're just, you're a terrific actor and you're doing very well. You're not Brad Pitt.

Okay, there was only going to make one of him, but to the air, that's very, and you know, speaking of succession, I always thought Logan Roy was a great example of the exact person you don't want to be. The person who has so much and yet they are constantly in a terrible mood and angry about are we going to be circling for another hour? Yeah. What they, the life is going 99% right and they obsess on the 1% that they can't control

and they can't have. There's a lot of ways out of an emotional situation like that. You can go to some therapeutic tools, you can look to positive psychology. You might say just common sense, enjoy what you have. That might be your take. For me, there are some spiritual lessons from, like, let's say, Buddhism around realizing that the Buddha said that life is suffering and the way and the reason that we suffer is we have such attachment to outcomes and to things that were clutching, that were grasping, and that if we can release our clutching and our grasping and our attachment, then we

can release a lot of the misery of being alive. And when I was on the office, I was clutching and gasping at, I, okay, I was making hundreds of thousands. I wanted millions and I was a TV star, but I wanted to be a movie star. It was never enough. And humans, humans have lived for hundreds of thousands of years. And never enough has helped us as a species. Yes, it has.

And we've survived because of it. But in the modern world, when we've got our, you know, our InstaCart and our Grubhubs and our stocked bars, we're fine. And this never enough kind of impulse is ripping us apart. It's one of the things ripping us apart. Well, so there are, this is part of what Soul Boom is about, is some spiritual tools to help us find greater wholeness and well-being. Yeah, I get that side of it. There's also the other side of it, which is Buddhism, first of all, was started at a time when life was very painful. So the philosophy of, if I just shut out

how I feel about things, that I won't experience pain if I don't attach to anything, that made sense when life was shitty and you were wiping your ass with bark. But it's kind of antiquated now, because, you know, we did get to this place where we can have really cushy lives, even middle-class people, only the very poor really live in a kind of state, even what they used to call extreme, I guess they still call it extreme poverty, but just in this century, we greatly reduced extreme

poverty. You know, People live on like a dollar a day. People who are shitting in the street. I mean, I'm not talking about LA, I mean like places. Child death stirring during childbirth. They made great starvation. Just a lot of the world lives what to somebody who was alive even a hundred years ago. But somebody who was alive even a hundred years ago would look like an incredibly cushy life with incredible conveniences. And as soon as we take them in, we take them for granted. And I just...

But the roasts as the massive men live lives of quiet desperation. And I think that's true because I think that whether it's a middle-class life and you know, you're working a job and you're making 60, 70 grand a year and you've got dominoes pizza on the table. Like how many people living that life are truly like satisfied and content? Maybe some are, I'm sure some are. And how many people in these Hollywood hills that surround you, I won't give you your address. Well, I want to give it right now. I want to so that they beat it out. I want to do it so bad, but I'm not going to come on.

How many people through the trifecta come late? Miss pronounced my name and give my address. I was on track. Maybe I was on time. Five thirty five. I was five minutes late. I'm just kidding. Oh my God.

I'm going to kick your ass. No, I could kick your ass. Yeah, I'm sure you I'm sure you could be fear. You are. You're a willowy. You might be gainly, but you're also No, I could kick your ass. Just to admit it, I'm sure you could. I'm beefier. You're a willowie. You might be gaynly, but you're also willowie. I have Chuck Ladell, the guest after you today. Okay.

So I mean, I was thinking before I came over here, well, if there's one guy, I don't want to get in a fight with. It turned out to be me. It turned out to be me. So, the people living here in the Hollywood Hills and the people that you know, how many people live lives of grace and contentment with their locks. Okay, but where did you read that you promised grace and contentment and pure happiness in life? That's not what life is.

Life is a game and if you win it, you're probably in a minority. And even if you do win it, you don't win it 12 to 12 to one. You win it seven to five. I see why you love the ending of succession so much. You, you are, you're like, life is a shit and then you die kind of. No, life is not, I'm not saying life is good.

And even people who I'm telling you 100 years ago, people did not have lives as easy and good as we have them. We we forget and yet people are more unhappy than they've ever been. How the fuck do you know? Because because you can look at suicide rates for Gen Z people. They've tripled in the last 20 years. That's true. Yeah.

The mental health crisis is out of control. That's true, but now we're talking about a different subject. We're talking about the advent of social media and smartphones, which is only about 12, 15 years old. I don't know that 100% of this mental health, that is only about 12, 15 years old. I don't know that. That's 100% of this mental health. Oh, that is all worth it. I think there's a big percentage, but could it be 30, 40%?

But it's, I mean, of course, it's tied in with the materialism because what is Kylie Jenner selling when she's... Well, climate, climate anxiety and political division and disunity and... Yeah, kids don't care about that shit. They pretend they do, they don't give a shit about the climate. They want to be on Kylie Jenner's private plane.

Hold on a sec. They want to own that plane, they do not give a shit about... Bill, when you have a podcast, you need to ask your guests some questions and let them talk every once in a fucking while. You've talked quite a bit and this is not a kind of a podcast where I ask anybody questions. I don't, is that how you conduct your personal relation? Who said that life was where you go on a podcast and they ask your questions? Yeah, that's why life is going on a podcast and you've got a fight to get a word in edgewise.

You don't have to fight, you've had before it all night, you've had plenty of time to talk and you have plenty of time now to talk. But this podcast is not like those other podcasts, which is why it's doing better. It is, because it's actually interesting, and it's actually what I would really be doing with you. Who I don't know. I love it. My son woke up one morning, I'm not kidding,

he was 18 years old, I came in to the kitchen, and he was really distraught, his head was in his hands. And I was like, Walter, what's going on? And this is absolutely true story, he goes, I just can't fucking believe it. And I was like, Walter, what's going on? And this is absolutely true story. He goes, I just can't fucking believe it. And I was like, what? He goes, the Biden administration approved this pipeline in Alaska, like they just signed a green new deal a few months earlier. And now they've okayed this gas pipeline. And no one cares about it. And it's not even in the news. Like, don't they even care about my generation? He was distraught. He was really

seriously upset about that. Well, okay. He's the son of you. He's a kid who lives in LA. He's in this kind of world, this, what the middle of the country would call the elitist coastal types, you know. So I understand, I don't think he's wrong. I think it's great that kids, there are kids like that and there are kids like that. It's probably 15, 20% of the kids. It's not most of the kids in the country. And trust me, I bet you, if he was, get him a few years, he might be the kind of person who actually would fly on a private jet or would love to own one.

Well, to calm him down. Have you ever flown on a private jet? I took, yes, I took him in my Tesla down to get a latte and get his shock resbalanced and he felt so much better afterwards. And yeah, I've flown on a private jet a handful of times. I do it every weekend. Hey, I got no judgment. And judgment. I did a piece on it this year on the show. I was saying, everybody who, in Hollywood, who pretends to be an environmentalist, and I put myself in that category, and said, I can stand being called a bad environmentalist.

I can't stand being called a hypocrite. And everybody, all these environment, I had pictures of all of them. They all, Leonardo DiCaprio. I mean, everybody, we all love the environment, I had pictures of all of them. They all lay in order to capriot. I mean, everybody, we all love the environment, but no one can resist a private jet. And until they out, well, all jets, it doesn't really matter.

So why would they make a prohibitively expensive with taxation that goes toward carbon and decreasing carbon emissions and some other. They could do that. They could do that. Well, the problem is, is that has been weaponized by the political right so much, where if you, like if I send out a tweet about climate change, you'll be like, Eurohollywood celebrity and Leonardo DiCaprio takes his private jet everywhere, so shut the fuck up.

It's like, okay, Leonardo DiCaprio takes a private jet everywhere. That may or may not be a good thing. Maybe he shouldn't do that. I don't know if he's doing other things to help the environment to counterbalance that. What could you possibly do to counterbalance that? You could buy a million acres of rainforest and not let it get cut down in the Amazon. You could do both. That's what I'm saying. Could you do both? That's what a counterbalance is. But the point is, is that people look at him and that hypocrisy and they're like, so why should I do anything? Why should anyone do anything?

He Leonardo DiCaprio is like, he may be on a jet, but you know what? Heat trapping gases going into the atmosphere are fucking us and they're fucking up our grandkids and that doesn't change just because Leo's in a jet. Why can't we buy the Amazon? Why can't all the people? That's a great idea. I do too. You know, and never said that. Can we could start that? I'd love to. Let's hear from you. That is something I would actually, I mean, I've given... Hey Brazil, we will give you a $300 billion,

we'll pay off your entire debt, and give us half the Amazon, and you can't cut it down for the good of the planet. Yeah, I always think if you throw money at a problem, it goes away. I know that sounds cynical and successful, but it's all so true. I mean, I'm telling you, if you want a parking spot

and you have $100, you can get a really good one. I mean, anywhere. All right. You know, I'm not saying you should do it. Yeah. I'm just saying, it's a bigger version of that. Okay. But I don't know why anybody hasn't thought of that before.

I know that there are people in this country like Ted Turner used to own or probably still does as a state does. Ted's gone, right? Yes. I think he's 107. I really feel sorry, Ted, if you're new, we really need an app that's like dead or not dead because there's so many people that I have no idea. Ernest, porg9. I don't know if he's alive or dead. Oh, I think Ernest has passed. I think he's bigger than this. I don't know. But, um, Mikhail's name, right? I think so. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, well, definitely. Yeah, yeah. Marty is what I'm thinking. Marty. Marty. I was before my time, but I know. Classic. There's a lot of environmentalist and rich people that have bought up big acreage, but I

feel like that is something. I mean, twice I gave a million dollars to a cause, you know, to Obama. I'm in 2012, but to establish that because they had just passed Citizens United, you know, in 2010. And so the limits had been lifted on how much you could give. And there was all these million dollar and up donations that the Republicans were gathering. And I thought, oh, God, we have to have this man reelected, not just because he was the best candidate at the time, but because it was a very important,

I thought that the first black president get a second term, because if it was just one, people would talk. Just say that. Oh, he didn't really, he was a one-termer. Yeah. That's like a real abiltross hung up. Yeah, it's like a one being a one-hit wonder

as a rock band, you know? That's a step of open and kind of it. It is. It really is. Yeah. It is the same stigma. I mean, Jimmy Carter, who I thought was one of our best, most underrated precedent.

But, and boy, talk about a guy, you know, he's had a hang in there. I mean, I don't know when this is airing, so if you- He's still going. But, that's the app, dead, not dead. He's not dead, but he's been in hospice for like a month. He got brain cancer at 94 and beat it. This guy, and this is the guy who can't wait to meet Jesus. Yeah. And then like, he's been in the hospice, like we were,

I mean, they have his obituary on speed dial at the New York Times. I mean, they just kind of pressed send. And but this guy's like, the answer is peanuts. But this is the answer is peanuts. Fienuts longevity. The kids are going to have to go. But remember that was that whole October surprise with the Reagan administration in Iran contra and not in Iran contra, but paying the Iranians to not relieve the hot release the hostages before the election, right? That was one of the first big like behind the scenes election scandals. Most people still don't know that that happened. Right.

And that really cost Carter the election. I mean, he might have lost anyway, but it sealed his fate. For the kids who believe that everything that didn't happen before they were born, didn't happen, what happened was January 20th, my birthday. My birthday. Your January 20th? Get out of town. Dad.

Yeah. January 20th. I January 20th. How fucking funny is that? That we would come to this moment. Look at this. Like not, you know, me and- It's so tender.

Yeah. I thought it went better in rehearsal. But January 20th. January 20th. Yeah. It's a little club along with the Howard Reco Fellini Howard Hughes. Okay. David Lynch, I think. George Burns. Okay. Nice. It's a good day. Kelly and Conway. No. Yes. She's got to be in our club. Okay, so anyway, our birthday, January 20th, 1980, Reagan is being elected, is being inaugurated.

And the Iranian too, it had the hostages for over a year, released them like right at the moment of the, like three days later. No, no, like that day, that inauguration day. Like as soon as that's like how much they hate and carter. Right. And we were so naive at the time that people just, most people thought it was just coincidence, or they thought it was Reagan's great brave leadership that kind of forced them out of it. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Exactly. That was certainly the right wing apology for that moment was, oh yes, well they were

so afraid of just his shadow. They saw his shadow and they just said, we give up. And he looked a lot like James Woods at that time. Well, last night. Last night. Anyway, I found this to be very fascinating. I must say, I appreciate you rolling with all the orneryisms that I have as a host. Are you winding this up?

I have to because there's another guest here. You double booked me? I didn't. We always knew this. There's we taped these, we taped, take you know for like all TV shows do like this because uh not that this is a TV show. Did you get like a flashing light that said second guest is here or something like that? No, no, no, it's a clock right there. Oh look at that. Right. So, wow. I didn't even see it. We did an hour, which is what we, um, um, but Bill, listen, we may not see eye to eye at all and on anything. No, we do, I think politically we do.

I think we see eye to eye a lot. Yeah. Yeah. But I so, I'm really not kissing your ass, but I just honor what you do. And you've been an inspiration. Uh, you've made me cachortal and, uh, and I think you're just engaged in like some of the most valuable conversations going on in our current last three weeks. I really appreciate you saying. I really, really mean it.

I could tell. When I'm coming from you, it means a lot. One reason I wanted to do this podcast or a podcast is because as much as I do love doing that There just is a whole other way That you can talk to somebody and it's not politically driven although it drifts there sometimes But at the whole point of is that it drifts and I'm only saying this because you you were joking before and I am Sorry if I cut you off. No, what please okay, but like you're joking before I could take it. I know, absolutely. And you were joking about, like ask a question. And it's like, that's what I do on my real show. And real time is my real job and my real show

and my real love. But I also like sitting around bullshitting with people, which is what I do. Like any Wednesday night, anyway. Sure. The fact that I can do it with the likes of you is just fantastic. Because like, you likes of you, it's just fantastic because, like, you know, it's just different.

And just like it, I mean, my whole career has been trying to get the realest type of conversation that I have in my real life on films that other people can see it. And I feel like I approximated it as well as you can under the conditions of a HBO talk show with senators and governors. And it's not like this.

Sure. This is like, to me, there's no difference if there had been no cameras rolling. I would have said the exact same thing. And I think you would have. I was a little more self-conscious because there's cameras rolling. And I'm like, I'm on Bill Mars show.

And when is he gonna jump me ideologically? But I agree, I agree 100%. And I love that you didn't even ask. And you don't need to ask about my new show on Peacock streaming service. I told you, you're a real hilton. And the geography. I have plugs too. I told you.

I told you. I'm streaming now on Peacock where I travel the world looking for happiness because I, unlike Bill, believe that happiness, well-being, satisfaction and wholeness is possible and achievable and is something we can strive for. Peacock, you're not subscribing. Turn that around, America. Subscribe to the old peacock watch office reruns, old bill here loves and check out the new rain Wilson streaming show. Bill, what do you got? You're

playing Oh, chuckles comedy casino and Bismarck North Carolina on April 22nd with. with fluffy is opening. What do you got? What do you? Okay, but I did warn you I was gonna forget. I know. I know. You did a producer. For me is like the bill is gonna forget to plug. Yeah, whatever you got. You've got to do it yourself. But the the peacock show is on already. Yes, now. It's just out for a week and a half, yeah. The geography of bliss. So, so you're going around the world. Yeah. Like where's a place that's blissful?

Iceland, kinda. Oh yeah, that is the reputation. Not for sure. Of course, it has a really high suicide rate and like, one of the largest percentages of people on antidepressants. So you got to weigh it, but there's a lot of happiness and bliss to be found there. It's fucking cold.

It is. Well, I will not be an Iceland. I'll August 19 to be at the ovens auditorium in Charlotte, North Carolina. Oh, I love Charlotte. August 20th, at the Townshipship auditorium in Columbia, South Carolina, I love the way they put the Carolinas together. Oh, that's nice. Swings.

Why isn't there one Carolina? Do we really need more than a South? Actually, you could make the case of the Carolinas. Why are there two decodes? There should not be two decodes. Coatly. I'm not sure there should be one. Also, why Delaware?

Give me a break. Yes. Who the hell? Right, Marilyn and Delaware just make it to a melloware. All right. Thank you. I gotta go. Bye, Belle. Thanks. Are we going? Are we hugging? What's happening? I don't know what's happening.

I'm gonna fuck out of you. Thanks for having me. This was fun, man. That's really awesome. You can't say it's not real. It is real time. No, that's the other one.