Club Random with Bill Maher - Robert Zemeckis | Club Random with Bill Maher

Episode Date: November 10, 2024

Robert Zemeckis directed a lot of your favorite movies, including Forrest Gump, Back to the Future, Flight, and many more. Bill and Bob talk about his streak of hit movies, his work with actors like Tom Hanks, Michael J. Fox, his friendship with Spielberg, his process in making films, his new film Here and its unique premise involving a fixed camera perspective in one location over centuries, the use of advanced de-aging technology for actors like Tom Hanks and Robin Wright,  the cultural impact of movies like "Saving Private Ryan" and the resonance of WWII films, stagnation in cultural innovation in recent decades, especially in music and fashion, the impact of a religious upbringing, the significance of crafting strong endings in films, and looking back on Back to the Future through the lens of today’s environment Reverse hair loss with @iRestorelaser and get $625 off with the code RANDOM at https://bit.ly/3ZovHs3 #irestorepod Go to https://www.PDSDebt.com/random to get debt free, today! Go to https://www.Shopify.com/random to upgrade your selling, today! Go to https://www.GETSUPERBEETS.COM and use code RANDOM to get 15% OFF your first order! Follow Club Random on IG: @ClubRandomPodcast Follow Bill on IG: @BillMaher Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you're listening or by using this link: https://bit.ly/ClubRandom Watch Club Random on YouTube: https://bit.ly/ClubRandomYouTube Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

And by the way, I love your movie. You know I love that movie. I know because you called me. Bill, you just stated the premise of my movie. Everything changes. Robert, there you are. Bill, please call me Bob. How are you?

If I have to? You don't have to. You can call me, if you don't want to, you can call me Robert. You ever see that book on the name Bob, all the Bobs in the world? No, never did. Somebody put on a, oh, like Bob Newhart, Bob Dylan. There was something they found commonality because it's a very common name. In case you never got my book.

I did, but you will sign one for me please. Thank you. Hollywood royalty for a reason. Oh God, I love that, thank you. That just means a lot, thank you. It's great by the way, I'm glad you did this. Thank you. It's fantastic.

And I certainly mean that. In scripture. Appreciate that, thank you. Well, it's undeniable. If you just go down the list of all the big ones. I mean, my friend and I were talking the other day, we were driving back from the airport and songs come on the radio

and we were saying like, how tough it must be to be a one-hit wonder. Like lots of people, there's lots of one-hit wonders in music. You do it once and it's like the greatest six months of your life, there's lots of one hit wonders in music. You do it once and it's like the greatest six months of your life. You got a number one hit, you're on the top of the charts and it never happens again. That happens a lot in music. I guess in your business too, but you don't think, but you know, to have like the number of biggies

that you've had is a, not a lot of people in that company? You know what the closest to this was is back in the day, the Charlie Rose show. Oh, well, but that's TV, yes. Right, but there was you, all the cameras were remote control. Is that right? Oh yeah, you were in that black void.

I did it, I remember. And there was nobody there. Those cameras were all operated on servos. And you couldn't see anybody, and it was just a table. That's how he ran his personal life, too. You couldn't see anybody, which is why he came out in a bathrobe. Exactly. It's amazing the way the number of guys in that first Me Too wave, you know, like around our age,

who were just doing things that I just wanted to go, you know, it's not all of us. Ugh, like don't you just hate yourself that this is how you get laid? I mean, everybody's got a way to get laid, cops pull you over, I mean, everybody's got a scam. Right, right, right. But it's just how elegant they are.

Yeah. And this was like the least elegant. I emerge from my bedroom in a robe. Like the 28 year old's gonna go, oh, my dream has come true. Exactly. I get to see Charlie Rose naked. Thank you, Jesus.

Exactly, exactly. No I know. I mean you must have seen some shit on movie sets. I had this, well I've always, I never, actually I, no actually, no actually, actually. You're getting nervous now. No, no, no, there was one, there was one, there was one time where nothing could happen,

but it was like, it was a scene in Forrest Gump where Robin is in the dorm room with Tom, right? I'm sure you remember that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Joanna Johnson, my long time costume designer, she's very English, very proper, and she kept coming up to me with showing me what, if I approved what she was gonna be wearing

as her underwear, all this period stuff, and I'm looking at it and going, this looks like, you know, something a grandmother would wear. This doesn't, I don't, you know, and she kept showing me the stuff I said, and I doesn't, I don't, you know, and she kept showing me this stuff. I said, and I finally, I got upset and I said, you know what, get a model who, get a model

who has the same dimension, same body as Robin and put this stuff on her and take a picture so I can see what it's gonna look like. So a day later I hear, you know, Joanna says, or the AD comes and says, Joanna wants to see you in your trailer. So I go in my trailer and there's this model with a robe on in my trailer.

And Joanna's there and she says, well, show them the underwear. So she opens up her robe. I said, that looks great. And then the model said, you want me to take them off? Really? Yeah. I'm looking at Joanna, I'm saying, no, that's okay.

I wasn't even asking about you. I just meant that you're in show business. If you're in show business, I'm in it too. You're going to be around some sleazy people at some point. I guess. I mean, especially in the music industry. Not to always. I always found that the ones that were the most talented

were not the sleaziest. I mean, obviously there were. But in my... I mean... In my... Michael Jackson was very talented and he was fucking little boys. That's true.

You know. No, it's true. That's true. It's hard to... I know what you mean, like the bigger they are, the nicer they are. That's, you know, often true. It takes all kinds. I mean, I've never thought you could like

pigeonhole show business people. It's a spectrum. Are they smart? Some are brilliant. And many are not. Same as humanity. Are they good? Some are awesome. Yeah, you're right.

Yeah, I mean, I don't think we'd want it any other way. We wanna recruit from the full panoply of the human race, right? I think you're probably right. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And everybody's flawed. I mean, I don't know what your casting process is, but I'm sure you know, they once asked John Houston

what's his secret to directing, do you remember that? And he said, I do emotional my directing in the casting process. Which means, you know. Yeah, I don't know what that means. I know what it means. I know what it means. I know what it means, but I know what he, but yeah, but you could look at it,

I guess you could think of it two ways, because you know, it's like, you know, it's the old adage, what makes a good movie, you know, good writing and good casting. You know, that, you know, so we might be even alluding to that, you know. Well, I think he, look, I mean, I don I mean, I'm not a movie maker like you are, but just as a fan, I know there's so many things

that can go wrong in a movie. I mean, there's so many elements. You can have good writing and good casting, and it could get fucked up by half a dozen other things. Editing and timing and lots of stuff. But I think what he meant by that was, if Humphrey Bogard is on my team and I write his name in the lineup card,

we've got a good chance to win this game. That's exactly right. Yeah. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. He's getting guys up there who are gonna show up. I mean, you use obviously some of the same people because as most directors mean, you use, obviously, some of the same people because you, as most directors do,

you work with somebody, you have a good time, they fulfill your vision, and you're like, you just solved my biggest problem in this next project. Can I, right, isn't that? And it's like a shorthand. I mean, I made a bunch of movies with Tom Hanks. Right. And he says, I can hear in your voice

when you say cut that we're doing another take. So it's kind of like that shorthand has gotten to that. He knows exactly what I'm thinking. He knows when you're not quite satisfied? Yeah, just from the way he hears me say the word cut. That's what he claims anyway. But that's the great thing. I mean, I keep working, I've worked for,

I've made over 20 movies with Alan Silvestri, my composer, and it's just great having a shorthand where you kind of finish each other's sentences. Of course. And when people are delivering and you can have that shorthand, it's great. But I've been very fortunate. I've worked with, I mean,

some of the absolute greatest actors of our generation. Well, I would say the same about you. I mean, the people in any industry, but we know at NARS, they wanna, you know, you're not doing them any favors. They wanna work with someone who's gonna make them successful too, who's gonna provide the material, You're not doing them any favors. They wanna work with someone who's gonna make them successful too,

who's gonna provide the material, provide the direction. I'm sure you're friends with a lot of these people, but maybe they'll do one movie for you out of friendship, but that's it. They wanna work on what they wanna work on. Yeah. But you come to them with good stuff. I mean, you know, especially like Tom Hanks,

was Forrest Gump the first one you did with him? That was the first one, yeah. Okay, but then Castaway, how many years later was that? Castaway was like four years later, and then we did the Polar Express. I never get tired of that plane going down. In Castaway. I mean the whole movie's great,

but that is, I don't feel like I'd ever seen that quite on camera. I mean it's so, a lot of stuff that's super actiony and CGI and all that kind of stuff, it's stuff that would never really happen to me. I mean, I'm not worried about some monster shooting rays out of the end of his fingers at me. Right, of course, right.

But a plane crash. I mean, it's very gripping because you could be exactly in that scenario. Yeah. And I guess that's what it would look like. Yeah, and I think the trick, and I think the thing that makes it the most terrifying, and it was a decision that I made early on was you only see any of it from Tom's point of view. So, you know, we never cut to what the pilots are seeing. We never cut to outside the plane, God's point of view.

The whole plane crash happens just from his vision. Well, until it hits the water, then we see. Well. We saw the plane, all the shit in the water when the plane hits the water. No, he's there. No, you see it only from him. So it's like he comes up on that raft and then you see the big tail of the plane coming at him.

Right. It's all, but then at the very end, when he starts floating away, then the camera pulls back up, you know, like way up into the sky, as you just see him in that black ocean. How do you make these decisions like what to do? You, I mean like, you're a little like people like Kubrick

who made a bunch of great movies and none of them are like the other ones. You know, I mean there's no like Scorsese you would say well, it's mostly a certain style. Obviously he's done other movies that aren't mob movies, but he'll always be, first thing, and it's obituary, you know, master of mob movies. But you seem to be all, I mean,

Back to the Future is not really anything like Cast Away. No. I've been very fortunate. I've actually, I'm too restless, or maybe it's a madness. I don't know what it is, but I just. It's an artist. I just didn't want to do the same movie again.

You're bored. It would be boring. I feel like that's the key to art, is that the person doesn't want to be bored. Exactly, I just have no interest in doing, want to be bored. Exactly. I just have no interest in doing, I just would, I mean, a teen time travel movie. I just would have absolutely no interest in doing that.

You already did it. I did it. Right. Exactly. Exactly. By the way, it so holds up. And of course, like any movie from the past, there's things in it you absolutely couldn't do today,

or they would just jump on you. I mean, Bef is a rapist. I mean, it's flat out rape, which even if he's the bad guy, they would go nuts. Right? Yeah, I know. And it's just like, the bad guy in town, he rapes. That's his thing that he, you know, he rapes.

People don't approve. People don't approve it. And it doesn't really, well, but you know what the intention is, obviously, yes. No, no, no, he's in that car. Oh yeah. And her feet are in the air. He's plainly raping.

Oh yeah, oh yeah. And both of them, and Tom and Leah are so great doing that scene, and it was, yeah, it gets pretty scary. By the way, we have a sort of weird tangential connection, which you'll never guess this, but in 19, were you making the movie in 85? I know what you're gonna say, Gary Goldberg.

You're right. Now you know how come I know you were gonna say that? This is great, because I was having dinner with Michael J. on Monday night. Really? Yeah, he was in town, and I was having dinner with him, and we were talking about,

because I think he's thinking of doing a memoir about his life when he was, I mean literally doing the movie at night and the show during the day and getting two hours of sleep for eight weeks. So what is my connection to this, do you think? I was asking him this, I was saying, so what, you know, was Gary, like,

was he like concerned about if you were getting enough rest or anything? He was, no, no, no, cause he was too busy doing another show. He was doing another show with Bill Maher called Sarah. Correct, Gina Davis was Sarah. Gina Davis, right. Alfrey Woodard and Bronson Pinchot.

We were four lawyers in San Francisco. I was the office prick. And Bronson was gay and Alfrey was black. And Sarah was the lead. And that's who we were. And that was, yeah, Gary Goldberg, the producer, writer, he had Family Ties with Michael J. Fox, which was the hugest hit.

So we were thrilled to be on a show with TB's biggest producer. And we had a pretty good time slot. You know, it was NBC when they were kind of like the king of the hill. So I don't think we followed directly Family Ties, but we were doing fine. I think we were against Dynasty, which was not easy, but you know, come on. It was 1985.

But I do remember Gary Goldberg talking a lot about how Michael J. Fox was, he had to, or he did, loan him to you to do this movie while he was still filming Family Time, which is crazy. It's crazy, and it was crazy. So he couldn't have been there until he finished blocking and whatever sitcom shit that he was doing, right? Well, yeah, so I think the way, the heavy days in the sitcom were always the Thursday

and then the taping on the Friday, right? Those were the heavy days. And those were the days where he had to work absolutely the most, there was no wiggle room. But on Monday, I think they kind of wrote him a little lighter in the show and he didn't have to sit through too many read-throughs and things like that to get a little bit more sleep.

Well, he was so good. I mean, he was such a natural. And sitcoms, I did three or four of them. It's gentlemen's work. It's not heavy lifting. And if you're smart and a real pro like him, I'm sure he could, you know, Jackie Gleason used to do it with zero rehearsal, live.

He'd have the stand-in do it with the other cast members and they hadn't even seen him do it. And he memorized it like sitting in the chair drunk before the show, like memorized the whole script. And then just when, that's like baller, like I can't even tell you. Exactly, exactly. But yeah, it really holds up. It's, the Calvin Klein joke is one of the all-time classics.

Yep, that's a good one. That she thinks his name is. And the line that Michael wrote, and he's, is, is he came up to me, and he goes, you know, and he came up to me and he goes, he gets up and he's like, where are my pants? And the script said over there, Leah says over there and he says, you know what?

She should say, they're on my hope chest. I said, that's great, that's going in the movie right now. I got those great gems from Michael, just kept doing that. The other thing he taught me so many things about, just comedy timing. You know, he would come up to me and say, you know what? I should take three steps and say this line,

stuff like that. And I go, okay, that makes, oh, that's great, that's better. Let's just change the marks. You know, so it was great having someone who just understood the, I makes, oh, that's great, that's better. Let's change the marks. So it was great having someone who just understood the, I'll call it, I guess, the mechanics of comedy. It's funny to watch a movie about time travel when you are now 40 years past when the movie was made. How about that?

So the jokes that are funny in 1985 about when they go back to 1955, oh, if you know everything about the future, who's president in 1985? Ronald Reagan. Oh, right. I'll bet Jerry Lewis is vice president. Made sense in 1980.

Now looking from 2024, it's funny in a different way. It's like a double time travel. You know the story of when Reagan watched the movie in the White House? And? Well, so, we heard this, Bob Gale heard this because his speech writers who put one of our lines in the State of the Union address that he said that year, were big fans of the movie. And they were there on the night

that he ran it at the White House. And the story they told was that when that scene came on, where Chris Lloyd says, Ronald Reagan, the actor, Reagan said, stop, stop, back it up, back it up, I gotta see it again. Then he shut the movie down, Rewind the Real. And he wanted to watch that part over again. Isn't that wild?

Because they had it real to real then. Well, it was a film, it was film. It was projectors. There was no video. Now you had to rewind the movie, rewind the real. how to rewind the movie, rewind the reel. Something about Canadian comedians, like Michael is a comedian. Yeah, Dan Aykroyd.

Matthew Perry. Right. There's something about them that they get us. They're part of us, but not completely. And they, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what it is, but I think, yeah, there's something about being able to look at it

with a little bit of distance, maybe. So what's the new one about? The new one. Well, the new one is really interesting. The new one is, again, me being on my restlessness. It's called Here. And it's based on a graphic novel by Richard Maguire. And the camera is only positioned in one view of the universe, and the camera never moves,

ever. And then, but the universe moves around the camera, or the view, I don't want to say, the view the audience is seeing, which is obviously a camera recording it. And it goes through many, many centuries. And it's not like a time lapse movie or anything like that. But at some point very early on, a house is built and a room is built around the camera. And it's a living room in New Jersey. And across the street is a colonial mansion, which used to be the mansion that Benjamin Franklin's illegitimate son lived in. This is all in the graphic novel, and Our family now inhabits this room, and we watch them, we watch their lives

through two generations. So we see Tom and Robin from 18 to 80 in the movie. How's that sound? Tom and Robin? Robin Wright. And Tom Hanks are back together in this. And they're back together in this. And they're back together, yeah.

Tom Hanks, Robin Wright, and the other reunion is Eric Roth wrote the script with me. He wrote Forrest Gump. So why do, I mean, but you said the camera sees the universe. Well, I say universe, I mean, not, well, whatever. I mean, the world, the world. What part of the world is it focused on? What are we seeing?

We're just seeing this house. No, you're seeing the earth before the house is built. The earth. The world. The whole earth. No, just what you can see. Just like if you were looking, okay, so if you were looking at that wall

and then your view of that wall never changed, but time changed around you. But what is the camera trained on that the people who are watching the movie see? Exactly what's there. Whatever is there. So to give you an example, the camera is looking at the mansion,

the colonial mansion, before the house is built. And the colonial mansion is always in one place after it's built. But the trees around it now disappear because they were cut down. And then walls are constructed in frame. And then suddenly a room is constructed and then a window is there, but you can still see the mansion.

Do the actors age? Yes. And you see them age? Oh yeah. And so you de-age them? Yes. I hear that technology's gotten better since The Irishman. Oh, this is, in this movie it's perfect.

So you can make them any age you want. Is this a union issue? I feel like- Yeah, yeah, no it is. No, but it's like makeup. I call it digital makeup. Right, which I would assume would upset the makeup union. I mean, whenever things change, somebody usually gets hurt

and then that person is gonna cry and moan. I mean, whenever things change, somebody usually gets hurt, and then that person is gonna cry and moan. Sometimes justifiably, sometimes not. My view is that you can't bitch and moan too much about when things change, because they just are going to, so what the fuck is the use of crying? 20 years ago, Barry Sanders was like the highest paid player in football or close to it.

Now no running back is even in the top 100. Why? Because things change. Why did it change and become a passing game? It just did. So why fucking obsess about that? That's just the reality. Music became a producer's industry.

They get all the money. Songwriters are dying. They don't get paid anymore. Making a hit record, you don't get paid because of fucking Spotify. Streaming is basically where serious movies went. People are not going to go to the theater, look what happened to Megalopolis. I mean, I don't know if it's good or bad,

but in the old days, there'd be more curiosity just to see it. Yeah, Bill, you just stated the premise of my movie. I meant to. Everything, everything, everything changes. I'm gonna pretend I meant to do that, but no, but it's a great theme. It's a great theme.

That's what fascinated me about it, because it's a meditation on, I hate to use that word, because the movie's wildly entertaining. But, you know, so I don't want it to sound like it's like. Right. But it's about the fact that everything changes, nothing stays the same, and that's, and...

Well, let's hope that some reviewer says, wildly entertaining, because then you can put that in the ad, and that always gets to me, because when I watch anything, I want to be wildly entertained. Well, that's it. So you were talking about Back to the Future, and I was having this, you know, so back in Santa Barbara over the summer, they have an old, beautiful theater called the Granada.

And it's having its 100 year anniversary. And they wanted to remind people that, you know, movies are all, back in the 20s and 30s, they used to run movies here. So they did a movie program, but they only wanted to use movies from people who, filmmakers who lived in Santa Barbara. So they ran my movies. And people who I knew who aren't in the movie business, who are in their 30s and 40s, they would come, they came to me and said, oh my God, we took the kids to the Granada and we watched Back to the Future. And they said, and you know what, people were laughing and people were cheering and they would burst

into applause at certain moments in the movie. And I was sitting there thinking, yep, that's why we use, that's what movies, that's what we did when we, that's the reason we're going to the movies. Yeah, it's, there's something about a communal experience that makes it better. Or not always, but it can. It definitely has that, I mean, concerts. I mean, yeah, there are just things that people,

there's some sort of like that we get from, oh, I'm among all these other people who feel the same way about this as I do. sort of like that we get from, oh, I'm among all these other people who feel the same way about this as I do. Maybe it makes you feel not so alone in the world. Church is the same thing. We all think Jesus Christ is God. We all think that.

It's just something comforting about that. I'm not in that group. No, I'm not in that group either. And by the way, I love your movie. You know I do. You know I in that group. No, I'm not in that group either. And by the way, I love your movie. You know I do. You know I love that movie. I know because you called me, and I always appreciate it. I'm so glad you reminded me of that.

Yes, when Religilist came out in 2008, you tracked me down and called me, and it meant the world to me. I'm the director of The Stature. Well, I'm so glad. I just love that you made that movie. Yeah, oh, I loved it too. Yeah, but it's about so much, but it's so entertaining.

You know, that's the thing. It's wildly entertaining. It's wildly entertaining. And half the credit goes to Larry Charles, who directed it and did such a great job. Did a great job. Put it together. But I mean, it was a labor of love,

even though a labor, I mean, drapes around the Middle East. Yeah, of course. I wouldn't do it again. Well, but you had to get all that great stuff. But here's the thing though, I mean, the art form though was designed, it was always supposed to be this communal thing,

I think, because the idea of seeing, well, you know what, maybe I'm wrong. No, flickers. No, those things, those... Flickers were individual. ...started with those little machines where you watched something. So you watched it in isolation, you were completely right. Right. So it just, everything changes.

But that didn't mean it was better. People then liked it better, of course, obviously, then we could sit down and watch it. And then in the silent days, wasn't there a guy in the theater playing the piano? Yep, during the silent days. That was the soundtrack. And then this thing started to happen, I guess, which is.

Sound. Well, sound. And then of course then people were getting, I just remember the first time that I was emotionally moved in a movie and that was the moment when I said, I gotta do this. What was that? It was Bonnie and Clyde.

Bonnie and Clyde, yeah. Okay, so there's a great scene in there where Gene Hackman was shot in the head and he's in this field and he's dying. I remember, yeah. And I remember being a kid, I guess I was a freshman in high school or something, I don't know, thinking,

well, I feel real bad, really bad. I feel so sad for this. And I remember having this clear thought thinking, this is some strange power. I think this is, I gotta figure out, and that's when I started to learn that, oh wait, there's a director and then there's a writer, and then there's, and this is, and it's not just,

you know, because I only went to movies to see special effects. But Bob, you know that the Clyde Barrow gang were not really good people, don't you? Oh, of course I do. I'm just fucking with you. Of course you are, I know you are. But I mean, that was the experience of the movie.

I mean, I absolutely know that I fell in love with these people, because they were just so. Oh, how could you not? First of all, Faye Dunaway was so cockerific in that movie. Absolutely. I mean, she was super hot. When they're in that diner, and she's in this hot chick

in a small town waiting for someone like him to show up and she just wants to get out of there so bad and she's got this curlicue of her hair by her ear that comes down, a little sideburn, a little woman sideburn. I thought it was kind of sexy, but he goes, change that. And she immediately puts down her hamburger and wipes off the grease off her hands with a napkin and does something with it. And it was just, I'm sure people will say,

well, that's you, Bill Moore. You like to see women dominated. No, it wasn't that. It was just hot. And it was a great moment. And sexy is not politically correct, and it never will be. No, it won't.

They are at loggerheads. You know, William Hurt throwing that chair through the window in body heat. Yeah. By the way, that plot, I just saw this movie. I watched movies that I never heard of very often, like scroll through the list to when I'm in the kitchen, you know, making food and things I don't really have

to pay attention that closely to, but I like see everything. This one came on, I think the title, I could be wrong, was Be Careful What You Wish For, I'd Never Heard Of It. It's with the Jonas. One of the Jonas's, Nick, I guess. Who's fine. Again, proving my point, I've made many times,

acting not that difficult. Lots of people could do it. Wrestlers, bodybuilders, dogs do it, children do it. I did it. It's just not, I said this to Sidney Pollack once. I interviewed him and he was like, you have no idea how right you are. And he proved it because he was a fine actor.

Yeah, I worked with him. Yeah, on what? He does what the, he does a, in, in Death Becomes Her, he plays the doctor that examines Meryl and realizes she's a zombie. And he is spectacular in it. Yeah, Tootsie, eyes wide shut. He just stepped in the Woody Allen movie.

Husbands and wives. And he just looks like he's doing it effortlessly. As the director for so long, he knows what the deal is. He's like, don't over fucking think this. Just fucking hit your mark and bark. It's not rocket science here. I mean, it is for some roles.

If you're playing Sophie's choice, yes, there's a level of acting. But most of it is just a version of you in a situation. Right, and knowing, I think, the thing that I appreciate the most about the really great actors I've had a chance to work with is they understand the medium. They know how movies are made.

And that is critical. Where the camera is. And when you talk about an actor like Tom Hanks, and he's so generous as an actor because he knows, this isn't my scene. I'm here to just say this one line, and that's what I'm supposed to do here, and completely get it. And it's not like, yeah.

Sometimes you hit a sacrifice fly. Absolutely. And it brings in the run. Yeah, and you did your job. I absolutely. I mean, I'm sure a lot of who you choose to work with, especially as you get older and you have the esteem to be able to demand it,

is just the life is too short list. Life is too short. To work with people who are assholes, who try your patience, who just, a lot of lateral motion when we could be moving forward on something because of your issues or whatever, the older you get. Life is too short.

Right? Life is too short. I know we all have that, obviously I'm not gonna mention anybody, but we all have the life is too short list. And it's that way in the whole thing. It's like life is too short to work at this studio. Life is too short to work. It's like life is too short to work at this studio. Life is too short to work.

It's like life is too short all the way down the line. It's like you get to the point where you just say no. And yet in that book I gave you, in the chapter on show business, there's a good one about how, I mean the point of it is, if people in Hollywood can work together when they absolutely despise

each other, which has happened in a zillion movies, why can't government? Couldn't government be as efficient as the movie Chinatown, where Roman Polanski and Faye Dunaway hated each other so much that she once peed in a bottle and threw it in his face? Yeah, I heard that story. But no, no, no, but you're right. And you're right. And I don't know why that is. I mean, that never happened to Ted Cruz. Well, maybe the difference is that there's not

a finished product. See, one of the things I love about movies is they end. See, I think, I mean, I mean. Well, good ones do. Yeah, but I mean, my process ends, and we are at some point, it's gonna be a wrap, and we're all gonna go home. I've said this to many people, perhaps here before,

like everyone has a great idea for a movie, and some of them are. Very few have the ending. The ending is the key. If you don't stick the landing, don't start down the road. And it looks like so many people, my mother used to say it, like she'd, how was that movie?

She'd like, hey, it was okay, but he didn't know how to get out of it. Yeah. Well, that's, well, you know. It's true. You have to know how to get out of it. Well, 100% right. I mean, that's my mantra whenever I'm working with writers

and kicking around ideas and things. It's like, well, I'll say to writers that I'm working with, I can't write. I can't start writing this until I know what the ending is. I don't even know, if I don't know where the ending is. And the tone. Well, the tone is a critical thing. Yeah, but you have to decide.

But you also see people who like never really made a decision about the tone because it's more than one tone. Whereas like the tone of Back to the Future is one level. It's very different from, like I said, Cast Away or even Forrest Gump. I mean, it just, there's a different tone. Like, are we taking this super seriously? No, we're not taking a DeLorean,

that time travels seriously. It's like, it's one of the, they used to say in comedy, by the premise, by the bit. Absolutely. And it's okay, you know, we're on here for the ride. We're not, we're not, we're not gonna, anyone who picks it apart, like picks the sides apart, it's like, you're just an asshole. Okay, no one really thinks this could happen.

It's, we're, it's, we bought the premise, no, you bought your ticket, go on the ride. Right. You know, it's a roller coaster. No, it's not real. If it was, you'd die. And I guess that's one of the hard things about doing what I love. You know, audiences seem to have a hard time with black comedy. And I mean dark comedy.

Oh. No, no, you know what I mean? You know what I mean? You are canceled. I don't even know what you meant. No, no, no. You're still kidding. No, I'm not.

No, no, you know what? We don't have to apologize for saying something that other people who are ignorant don't know what that means. It has nothing to do with race. Black comedy. No, no, no. Great black comedy is great. The social justice warrior is out there.

Black comedy means, like Apocalypse Now is a black comedy. Dr. Strangelove. Yes. It's about a subject that is very dark and very serious, and but we're still doing comedy about it. Right. And that's, but it's always been a difficult tonal thing

I've found, cause I've made a few movies that, Death Becomes Her by the way, which is, in a, wonderfully is having a, it's caught up to its time in an interesting way. wonderfully is having a, it's caught up to its time in an interesting way. Where, you know, the tone, that comedy tone with a dark theme like that is just hard. It's hard for audiences to tap in, you know, connect with.

American audiences. It's probably having a resurgence because there is a starvation for it now because they don't make those anymore because they don't trust the audience enough, partly because the audience is dumber probably, but there's still a sizable number of people that keep proving it. Look at Oppenheimer. I mean, would you ever think a movie like that would have pulled in that kind of money

at the box office? I wouldn't. I wouldn't. It's very encouraging. It is, it really is. It's very encouraging that the people are out there. And if you just service them, but. But, well, yeah, there's a whole shift going on now.

How do the fablements do? What's that? The fablements, how did that do? I don't think it was as successful as you would expect it to be. But for him, not as successful is still, I mean Lincoln was a really serious. Yeah, Lincoln was more successful. Very successful.

Right, right. You know, it's another one like Oppenheimer, if you really give it to them and make it wildly entertaining, they will eat the dog food. I completely agree. I, you know, I think we're in this strange world now of, well, we'll see. I mean, I made this movie which flies in the face of everything that's going on. I mean, it's completely original,

both in its style and its premise, and it's not a pre-solved title, it's not a sequel. When is it out? November 1st. Well, I wanna see it, not just because it's your name on it, and there's a lot of credibility there, but I'm just so curious now the way you describe it. It kind of has to be seen.

Well, it has to be seen and it's gonna be difficult. Even after you see the movie, it's gonna be difficult to describe what the actual story is, but that can be okay. That can be okay. You know what's interesting about Back to the Future? This is back in the day, you remember Blockbuster? Of course you did.

Of course you did. I lived across the street in West Hollywood. They never knew what shelf to put Back to the Future on. Really? Yeah, they didn't know if it was a science fiction shelf, should it be a comedy shelf? Is it an adventure shelf? They didn't know where to put a science fiction shelf, should it be a comedy shelf? Is it an adventure shelf? They didn't know where to put Back to the Future.

Isn't that interesting? It is. It's a comedy, but it uses as its fodder futuristic stuff, but again, it's not really in that category, again, because we don't really take seriously the science in it, whereas in contact, that is taken seriously. That's the whole point of it, is that it's serious.

It's not that hard to, it's not that hard to stock the jobs at Blockbuster. Well, and I got my greatest compliment from Carl Sagan. When I was working on, as he said, back to the future is the best time travel, best time travel, I guess he said, scientific theory that I've ever seen in a movie. And I didn't tell him, well, I took it from H.G. Wells. But that's where I just, if I was putting the other little film festival

and Back to the Future was one night, I would feel like a great couple of companion movies would be Groundhog Day, which is also great and also fucks with time. And did you ever see Pleasantville? Yeah, yeah. So good. Yeah.

Tobey Maguire and Reese Witherspoon and, yeah. But it'd be a good, yeah, well, that'd be a good, that'd be a good like little movie retrospective thing to do, you know. I was just on, I was very proud to be on TCM, you know. Yeah, I know, but yeah. Isn't that it, TCM now? I think so. Oh, Jesus. TC't that it, TCM? I think so.

Oh, Jesus. TCM. Oh, wait, the movie channel. The movie channel. Yeah, it's part of Time Warner. And you know, they do these little interviews before the show. Maureen Dow just did Three Days of the Condor.

I watched that. That's a great movie. That's a great movie and she did a great interview about it. I did Reds with Ben Mankiewicz who's out here and that's one of my all time favorites. Yeah, I really like that movie, yeah, that's good. Oh, I was able to recite word for word Jack Nicholson's scene and I thought they would use it and they didn't.

Where he goes to Diane Keaton, you know, scene and I thought they would use it and they didn't. He goes to Diane Keaton, you know, because she was this feminist from 1920 and he's like, Jack leaves you alone a lot, doesn't he? It must hurt. Remember that? And she's like, he's got his things and I've got mine. And he goes, what are they? What are what?

These things of yours. What are they? And then you go, well, he has my work, and then my work, and I do my thing, and he's like, are you making this up as you go along? And I did the whole thing, but then I didn't get it. But it was still really good, and it is a great movie. And who's your, like, when you want advice from your peers,

do you like show them stuff? I know some directors do that. They will show, like, who's your kitchen cabinet that you say, am I on the right track here, or don't you care? Yeah, well, I have my, you know, I have Bob Gale, who wrote Back to the Future with me, and he's my, he's my, and he'll tell me, I mean, he doesn't, you know,

he doesn't blow any smoke. I mean, he'll say, oh yeah, that's just, yeah, you're, you're in trouble with this movie. Um, yeah, so yeah. And it's, but, um, yeah. And, and, and then Alan, my, um, my composer, he's generally, generally when, you know, when we do a rough cut,

or I do a rough cut in my editor, and it's not really a rough cut because I don't believe in rough cuts where I make the movie five hours long or so I never do anything like that. Good. I've always, I always kind of, I can't stand watching it.

So I always, you know, cut it down to where I was, I want it, I do the best that I can. And that's what I call my rough cut, my very first cut. And I always bring Alan in and I can just, I can just tell from his vibe what scenes are working, what scenes aren't. And it's just like, just the, you know, him and my editor, they're the ones that I'll feel first.

But no other like directors, I know you're close with Spielberg, aren't you? Yeah, no, I haven't brought Steven in. I haven't brought Steven in in a rough cut, in the rough cut thing. Not for any reason other than it's never been something where I think I've ever said, I really need somebody to tell me what to do here, like if I was in any trouble.

It's kind of like, it's sort of like when the movie is finished or in the rough, in the finished stage, it'll be like, okay, is this working, you know? And if there's anything you can suggest to do that I can help, you know, that can help it. Oh. I just remembered what I was talking about. The Jonas Brothers movie.

I mean, the Jonas Brother movie. If it's not a direct remake, I guess it's just a ripoff like they do. Double Indemnity, you remember from? Yeah, I remember Double Indemnity. What movie is it, Jonas Brothers movie? Which one are you talking about? I'm telling you. Oh, okay, okay.

It's also Body Heat. Okay. And now they've redone it again. Either they, I guess they just take the plot and it's fine. But, and the plot is great. When Fred McMurray did it with, who in there? Who was that with Barbara Stanwyck or yeah, but it's a it's a hot chick Who's unhappily married? there's lead to some older guy who's mean to her and she wants to fucking kill him and she

picks That's an instrument of her vengeance some young young guy. And because she's hot, she gets him to either kill the husband, because she loves him so much and they're gonna go away together. And then after he does the deed, she's like, see ya, wouldn't wanna be ya. And she actually frames him, you know. Because that's what you work.

For crime. Right. So I think that's so interesting that they've done that now through all these different generations. I mean, that was exactly what Body Heat was. That was double indemnity. And somebody from the new generation saw those movies and went, oh, OK, we can do that. We can do that.

And why not? Because there's only so many stories. Yeah. I mean, there are. Somebody said that. I don't remember who said that. Somebody said there's only like seven stories or something, I mean, there are, yeah, somebody said that. I don't remember who said that. Somebody said there's only like seven stories or something. I remember hearing that back in the day.

I forget who said that, but yeah. And then Bob Gale and I always thought that every story, every movie story has always been in an episode of Leave It to Beaver. Really? Yeah, I mean really. Like what? Well, like, you know, just, you know, whatever, whatever, whatever Beaver's character arc has

to be, the lesson that he has to learn, the moral of the story, it's, it's all there. You'll find an episode where it's there, where it's something, where, where his father has to do something or, or Gus the fireman has to give him words of wisdom, and you'll find these little gems in there that are always sort of like premises that you'll find in most movie stories. I think that's actually more apropos for Andy Griffith's show. And that too, probably, yeah.

That was more, I mean, maybe I don't remember Beaver too well, but I do remember Andy Griffith when I was homesick as a kid, and the reruns would be on. There was always a good lesson there. Like, one time Opie killed a bird with a slingshot, and the baby birds were crying and crying. Opie said, can you do something about that?

And Andy was like, no, I'm gonna let you listen to them cry for their mother so you know what you did. We could use a little more of that today. Exactly. And there was one episode where the beaver got swindled by sending in a coupon from a box of cereal or something and had to learn the lesson of understanding false advertising, all this great stuff.

It blows my mind the difference in life, just life, in America. I don't know about other countries. I only lived in this one. Just from when I was alive, which is I was not really aware of life, but mid-50s, I was born in 1956. You were born in the 50s. I mean, that's where you go back to and back to the future, 1955.

Okay. So that world, now from 1985 when you go back 30 years, it was recognizable but weird. But from 2024, kids today, that's like the Civil War era to them. Or if they even knew what that is, or the Revolutionary, or cavemen times. It's just like, it's alien. And yet we spam the whole time. Right. I always have a theory about why World War II movies have such longevity because

this it was a time when obviously the whole world was at war and we knew who the good guys were and the bad guys were and there was this incredible conflict going on, but the world was familiar. In other words, it wasn't like the Civil War or the Revolutionary War. The world was familiar. You had telephones, you had cars,

you had newspapers, you had movies, radios. So there was enough that was still going on where the modern audience can relate to the life that the people were in, and they could then say, oh yeah, and they're in this tremendous conflict. I think that that's why there's so many of them keep getting made, and why it's so powerful. That's my own theory.

It's also because Nazi uniforms were sharp. Oh, well, but the whole Nazi thing was so diabolical. It was so fantastic. It was dramatic. Of course that's true too, but the uniforms. Oh, they were. It was just awesome. Yeah.

I mean, the cut. I mean, am I wrong? No, no, no. Can we have nuance in life? I mean, they were diabolic and evil, but yeah, the wardrobe was fantastic, especially like the generals. I mean, those full-length leather coats, the lapels,

and then the generals had the red stripe on the leg. I mean, it was all just very well thought out. Hugo Boss, I believe. Well, yeah, I think I've heard that, but I don't know if it was him or his company or what the real, I don't know what the real truth about that is, I've heard that though. Well, a number of companies that we still have today

started out supplying the Mitsubishi, I believe, in Japan, made a few planes that flew into the decks of aircraft carriers, Certainly the Volkswagen. Yep. Bear Chemical. What, Bear Chemical? What's that? Well, the Bear Chemical, the Bear Chemical Company.

Oh, Bayer. Bayer, what did I say? Bayer, yeah, Bayer Chemical, they built the. Bayer Aspirin, yes. They built the. Right. The Bergen-Belsen, you know. They probably also, I'm just guessing here,

so don't sue me Nazis. I'm just guessing, but they may have made the speed that they gave to the German troops. Oh yeah, oh yeah. There's a book about that. Oh yeah. That would be a great movie. Not that I need to give you any ideas,

but there's a book, you could take the book and make the book into a movie, and it's about how the Wehrmacht, the soldiers were given speed. Speed. To go into battle, and like, how did they get to Paris in three days? That's how.

Exactly. It was like Paris, they get to Paris in three days? Powers they would have been in the Atlantic Ocean if they didn't stop them They just jacked them up and that's you could do an interesting thing through history because it's there are We gave our officers like before there was a push coffee I don't think we gave them speed but you know, the Nazis were efficient like that. There are certainly tribes and more primitive peoples who would chew on certain plants that would give them cocaine, you know, the coca plant, or in Africa, something called gott, I think it's K-H-A-T, Gott. It's like their cocaine that you just chew on it.

But Germans on speed. I don't wanna get into any trouble, but I think maybe we gave, our guys certainly maybe, some of our bomber crew, some amphetamines, doing those bombing runs. Yeah, maybe. Right know, some amphetamines. Yeah. Doing those bombing runs. Yeah, maybe. Right, there was amphetamines back then. I mean, certainly the Beatles took them in Hamburg.

Right, well I allude to that in a scene I did in Allied where he said, you know, he was saying, take this before the mission, that after the mission. So, I don't know if it's true or not. Did you watch that series on, I think it was on Apple, I think it was, it was Hanks. Yeah, the one about the Masters of the Sky. Masters of the Sky.

I thought it was, you know what I loved about that? So great. I loved there was so many little moments, I loved all the little minutia they put in there. Like the little things like, just when they're coming back from the mission, they're standing there with a tray of whiskey for everybody. I just thought that was like great.

I mean, they did Band of Brothers also. Same tone, I mean, it's just like, nobody does World War II like Spielberg. No, and yeah, and that's one of his greatest movies, is in Private Ryan. My favorite movie of all time, and that's partly because it's personal, because I mean, the guy who plays Ryan,

the movie opened with him as an older man, was exactly my father, who was in World War II, practically in that campaign. So when I saw it in the theater, I mean, to say I was like a puddle was, you know, it was only about four years after my father died. And it was like, you know, I've never had that experience in a movie theater. But, you know, he looked, Spielberg put him in like the exact sort of shirt

my father would have worn in 1990, whatever, when that movie was, you know, goes back in time and then we see him as a kid. But that generation just is, I'm sure the kids are tired of hearing that they're the greatest generation, but they kind of were. I mean, fighting what Hitler and Tojo represented and how close they were to achieving it was not something people today can relate to.

We're just not in that kind of dire situation where, yeah, they could have won. For a while, they looked like they were winning. I mean, we were on the ropes. There were some close calls. You read the history of that thing. There were some... If Hitler hadn't been nuts, they would have done it. Because there's no people in the

world as efficient as the Germans. And when you put efficiency in league with evil, it's not a good combination. They were very efficient at everything they did, but the guy at the top, this is Derek Hillis, the guy at the top was insane. So he thought he was invincible. If he had just not turned against Russia, I mean, they took Europe and North Africa all in a year. And- If he had invaded England instead of go to Moscow,

it would have been game over. Instead of trying to do both at the same time, which was never going to work, we dodged the bullet with that one. But we were not really ready to fight a war. I mean, for four years, this country made no cars. I know.

They just shut down the car factories and said, no, you're making planes and tanks now. And nobody said boo. I mean, that is just a different fucking universe. Yeah, and everybody did, everybody did do their bit. Everybody just said, okay, we gotta do this. Yeah, it really. I mean, that's the spirit that Hanks and Spielberg

are always after in those World War II things, and that they do capture. Yeah, and that great scene in Private Ryan where Hanks goes, what's the pool on me now? What's the pool on me now? I'm a schoolteacher. All these guys just drop their, you know. And the fact that he saved it to that moment

when he needed something to defuse. I also loved in that movie, I mean, there was many firsts that they did, like the first beach scene, showing the true carnage of war looks like. That had not happened before. Oh, that was, or just the camera going up and down out of the water.

Also, until then, everything I'd ever seen about World War II, I was a huge combat fan. Remember the movies? Oh God, I've seen every episode. Me too. Loved them all. Right. But all the movies, all the TV shows,

kind of presented it like, yeah, war is hell, but the thing you can count on is that when the superior officer says something, the other guys just do it. And Private Ryan, it's not quite like that. It's not like that in the field. It's a lot of, Captain, we shouldn't do this. It's like, that's not how combat did it.

It was like, whatever Sergeant Saunders said, they just did. And of course, under the heat of battle, and when they let the German guy go, they didn't agree with, and then he comes back to kill, I mean it's just, it's the great, I always say Shaving Private Ryan is simply the greatest combat episode ever. It is, it is.

It's a combat episode. It's just a really. And that was what it was. It was, every great moment in combat was in that movie. It's just fantastic, yeah, it's really, really good. It's funny when the Cold War ended, we had World War II as the great enemies. There was all the great World War II movies.

And then we had the Russians. And then in the 90s, people were just lost for an enemy. James Bond was fighting drug dealers. It's like, it just doesn't, come on. We didn't have anybody. James Bond doesn't fight drug dealers. James Bond isn't the DA. Why don't you get him a fucking jacket

with the letters on it? He fights crime in a tuxedo and fucks three hot chicks every movie. That's who, by the way, in the last one, he dies. Right. Talk about a generational change. James Bond dies? Mm-hmm.

What? No, James Bond wins. Yeah. In Back to the Future, we got a lot of pushback when we made the villains the Libyan terrorists. Oh, right. In a van. In a van, you know, with a rocket launcher. Yeah.

Yes. A grenade launcher. Yeah, a grenade launcher. But we, you know, and we would get these notes from the studio and say, can it be the mob? I said, why would the mob want plutonium? You know, it makes no sense. It's gotta be a terrorist organization

who wants to build a bomb. You know, so. Yeah. Yeah, there you go. And of course, that's almost 20 years before 9-11, so terrorists. No, it's longer than that. It was way longer.

No. It was. 85 to 2001, that's about 20 years. That's 16 years. Oh yeah, 16 years, you're right. So, but I mean, terrorism certainly was something people were aware of, but it just moved to that completely different level. It was like something you put in a movie.

Exactly, exactly. It's like, we put in a movie. Exactly, exactly. We're not really afraid of Libyans with rocket launchers. So we could put this in the movie. And at a certain point, they did start to bitch and moan. When I say they, I mean the usual suspects who are looking for something to bitch about. Whenever the terrorist was of any sort of Islam or Arab. It's like, okay, but like, you know, then who did do 9-11? You know, we're not saying all Arabs

or Muslims or terrorists. We're saying when that kind of shit happens, it has often been Iranians or Saudi Arabians. There is just a battle going on. Yeah, yeah. I mean, don't get me started on the kids today and their protests. Oh, no, well, listen, I agree with you. Yeah, I say, anyone says, what do you think about any subject, Bob?

I say, well, you know, just watch Bill Maher. No, thank you. That is the right thing to say, but thank you. I agree with him a lot. I agree with him on all subjects, but you're 100% right about that, exactly. What is your ethnicity? What is your background?

Okay, I'm- You're not some sort of Jew, are you? No, this is, no, no, no, I'm Lithuanian. My name is Lithuanian. Okay, come on. My father's first generation Lithuanian, my mother was born in Italy. Oh, wow. And the only time you're gonna get

an Italian-Lithuanian combo is gonna be in Chicago. Right, sure. And I grew up in the far south side of Chicago. Oh, it's great you don't have the accent. I don't, yeah, I don't think I have too much of one. You don't, because I always don't like it. I don't like that Chicago accent. You mean I didn't say, nah, he's up on the roof?

Roof is something, no. He's up on the roof? No, it's more da bears, you know, that kind. Oh, da bears are, yeah. I mean, they're just a certain, I'm sorry Chicago people. Yeah, no, it's true, it's true. There was a certain accent that I just find grating.

It's, you know, but I find the- He's on a motorcycle. I can't understand a Guy Ritchie movie without subtitles. I'm like, speak English, you fucks. Yeah. Speak American, for Christ's sake. I don't know what you're talking about. Exactly.

So yeah, I grew up in... That's why I love religion so much, because I got to go through the Catholic school thing. Oh, I was raised Catholic also. Oh yeah. And what was your experience? Loved it, I bet. Oh.

Isn't it a joy? I always think about, you know, I think that when I think about why do I have an image of death in every single movie I make, it's because, that's what eight years of Catholic school will do to you, you know. about why do I have an image of death in every single movie I make? That's what eight years of Catholic school will do to you. Come for the fear. Come for the fear. Stay for the shitting in your pants.

Exactly, exactly. No, it was, yeah, it was scarring. Scarring is the exact word. Not that I've been scarred for life, but I bet you I've been changed for life. How can you not when we're talking about something at such a formative age, an age where you are defenseless because you don't know anything, so you're just at the mercy of any sort of authority figure who tells you anything. So if they are scaring the shit out of you and filling your head with bullshit ideas,

that can't help but be scarring. I mean, sometimes people have accused me because I made religious and made a career of making fun of religion all the time. You know, are you bitter? I'm like, yeah. I'm very bitter. So what?

Yeah. Aren't you bitter about certain things? If someone raped your mind when you were a child, wouldn't you be bitter about it? I was mind raped. Well, I think it was the fear and the shame. The indoctrination of the fear and the shame, which I think is the... I don't know, I guess it's the, it's the- Were you still a Catholic in your mind when you started masturbating? Oh God, no, no, no. Well, I don't think, I'm not sure when I was ever,

I never, I don't think I was ever really, no, I didn't have any hangups like that, thank God, but it was just the, you know, that under, like low grade headache thing of you're unworthy because you exist. You know, the shame, the shame that, you know, there's nothing, there's nothing, there's nothing worse that you can do to someone than shame them, especially a kid.

And that's the number one controlling thing of that cult, in my opinion, is you're a sinner because you exist. And you felt shamed because of specific sins you thought you were committing that you then were announcing in confession? Did you go? No, it's a feeling of, it's just a feeling of not being, not being, just thinking that you're always, you're not measuring up, you're always falling short,

you know, you're always, you're always not. Yeah, pleasing God. you're always not... Yeah, pleasing God. Pleasing God, or yeah, you're just, you're not measuring up, you're not getting across the finish line. It's so psychotic, religion, to purposefully create this being who you are always going to disappoint. Aren't you disappointing enough people in your real life?

I mean, you've got your wife, you've got your family, you've got your kids. I mean, you're disappointing all of them, all the time. Is there a need to create this one more person who you're constantly, oh, I'm so sorry, God, I fucked up again, please forgive me, you're the greatest, You're all merciful. Thank God because I'm such a shithead.

And it's like, it's all in your head. These things that go on just in your head. And it's just, you know, it's just completely, completely diabolical. And all the rituals and the, I actually liked, I think I really, I was really, I really was like the drama of the violence and the scourging of the pillar and the,

nailing to the cross and all that stuff. I was kind of digging that. But it's just really endless, endless, endless, blood and death, blood and death. But it's just really endless, endless, endless, blood and death, blood and death. You wanna team up with Mel Gibson and make a Christy movie. I mean, you know. Yeah, I mean, there you go.

I mean, that was, you know. Can't deny him as a filmmaker. No, he's great. I gave him, I presented him his Academy Award. Good for you. No, I was there on the day when he I presented him his Academy Award. Good for you. No, I was there on the day when he won it for me. Was this after he? No, no, this was after I won.

Back in those days. Oh, Braveheart. Braveheart, yeah. Well, he wasn't controversial then. No, and you know, but no, so yeah. I think he's awesome. I mean. Braveheart, he's got stuff in it.

You know, I just have little patience with the perfect people in the world who, like, as he said some really fucked up things, he has, but you know, and is drinking an excuse? No, because drinking actually makes you more honest. So you can't use that as an excuse, like, oh, I was drunk, I didn't know what I was saying. Yeah, exactly, you said what you,

but you know, I would love to just talk to him because I just don't think he's a bad guy. I don't know him personally, but yeah. Yeah, and I think he understands where he went off and also he's got that super duper, literally more Catholic than the Pope father. And we are all sort of like at the mercy of who brought us into the world.

That's the theme of the Godfather. Right, right, I think I was lucky. I really didn't want to be in the mafia but when my father needed me, I had to join. I had to, yeah, I had to, I had to. I think I was lucky in that my parents weren't really like fanatical, you know, they weren't. But that thing about, you know, if the nuns were saying

you did something and you didn't do it, the nun was right. You know, it was that kind of thing. They held that power over, you know, the parents couldn't believe that the nuns would say something that wasn't, you know, something that obviously must be, they must be telling the truth. I remember going to confession. They started us going to confession. I remember making my first communion. That's the one you do at seven. And there's another one you do at 13. That's

confirmation. I never quite got to that one. But I had the first communion, which was a lot of days after school, practicing for whatever, practicing. We, you stood there for a minute while the priest like gave you, I don't know, confession. But that's when you started confession. And I had such anxiety because I was like, I'm seven. What fucking sin could I have committed? Yeah, I killed a hooker in Vegas. Right, right, right.

Your holiness. Well, I remember. Please forgive me. So I would like, you would like to make it up. I remember the difference between the mortal sin and the venial sin. Yes, of course. Okay, the mortal sin and the venial sin. And of course, the venial sin, if you died with a venial sin on your soul, you would go to purgatory. You have to work it off. Mortal sin, straight to hell.

Straight to hell. Straight to hell. No, no, no, get out of jail, nothing. You go straight to hell. And I remember this, being in the first grade, second grade, talking about stealing, stealing money. And how much, hey sister, how much money, what's a venial sin and what's a mortal sin? She broke it down there. Anything under a dollar is a venial sin. And anything over is a mortal sin.

Adjusted for inflation. Of course. Well, it was like folding money straight to hell, loose change, you only went to purgatory. Did you used to put money in the basket when they came around with you? We had a thing, oh yeah, well you did on Sunday. I'd go to mass every single morning in the crazy school.

Every morning? Every morning. Oh, you had it worse than me. For some reason in my Irish Catholic, but we used to do a thing where you had to buy pagan babies. What? Yeah, so in other words, you would buy a pagan baby. Buy?

Yes, to, the money was used to save them and the missionaries would use the money to go and you would go buy a pagan baby like in Africa or something and the point was instead of buying your candy bar after lunch, you're supposed to like put the money in this thing to. Talk about colonizers, huh? Man, I'll never forget that, paying to buy some pagan babies so we could convert them.

I don't know what the... But you know what? It wasn't that long ago. That's what I keep thinking. I keep going, you know what? What I keep saying is what's so amazing is like, I think it was Bill Gates who once said, if you look back over two years in your life,

it's like, Jesus, nothing ever changes. But when you look back over 10, it's like it's a whole different world. And it's like in the country too. It's like, how did we get so different from 1985? He's got that vest on in the beginning. It's a funny running gag. In 1955, they think he's some sort of sailor,

because that's who else would also wear that vest that we... Well, in the script, it says that you're wearing a light preserver. Right, light preserver. That's what it looked like to them. Right. But here now in 2024, it also looks weird. It's so funny, because in that space of time, in 2024, it also looks weird. That's so funny because in that space of time,

in 1995, it was what people wore. It was not what they wear now or then. But here's a question I have for you, because I think about this a lot. I'm thinking that there's been a, I think one of the things that has stagnated is the culture. Something, I don't know if it's because of the internet

or social media or technology just being the most dominant thing, but cars look the same. I mean, you know, I mean, music is the same. I mean, you know, I mean. Pretty much, yeah. Music is the same. If somebody came back, if somebody walked in, if a kid walked in here from 1994, which is 20 years ago, we wouldn't look twice at him if he came through a time warp. Yeah, it's 30 years.

Why, 30 years, excuse my math, yeah. But we wouldn't look twice at him. And why is that, I wonder? I don't know. It's like, because it's- Well, I mean, there were things they were doing in 1994. Some of it they brought back, like those really ugly mom jeans.

Everything bad comes back. Yeah, maybe. There's only so many things, there was so many ways you can wear clothes. But, you know, I mean in 1994, yeah, there was a grunge look that I don't think we're doing massively now. You know, the sea otter. But if somebody walked in, you know, in here from...

Well, you're definitely right that... Blackboard jungle. If somebody walked in from the Blackboard, you know, you'd go, oh, I know where you're from. Right, very different. You are from the past. Right. No, it's true.

And music, I mean, rap certainly was a completely different music form that is obviously preeminent now. But like... But that was 25,eminent now. But like... But that was 25, 30 years ago. 50 years ago. Rap. 50.

50? Yeah, rap celebrated its 50th anniversary. Wow. Yeah, 1979 was the first rap hit. Cypress Hill, I think. Maybe, yeah. Sugar Hill Gang, I think. So I mean, yeah, it's been around. It definitely was around in the 80s.

It grew and got better. Just like, I always say 80s rap is very much like 50s rock and roll. I don't like either. Like it needed a decade to grow up. But the music I listened to as a kid in the late 60s, if you go back 25 years, was so different from what my father was listening to in the 40s

Which is not the case with 1969 plus 25 years or 50 years except for rap which is big right but like all other kinds of pop music and There are songs that are put out now that could have been hits in 1969 or 79 or 89. Whereas the sound my father listened to, the big band sound, that was completely different. Completely different. And I didn't have anything to do with that.

When I was a kid, I didn't listen to that. I learned to appreciate that when I got older. And my father and my uncle, they hated it. Oh, I still don't appreciate it. Yeah. I mean, it's just not my kind of, I mean, Benny Goodman, I'm sure was great, and Glenn Miller, but I would never listen to it.

I know what it sounds like. Exactly. Maybe, I mean, Bette Midler did Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy Company, which was a World War II song, and she updated it great, and it made it like a pop rock sound. But basically it's just a, first of all, it's very clarinet driven. Okay, well that's not, to me, as good as electric guitars. That's just me. But that's what I grew up with. I mean, we're all products of what they put in our heads

when we're helpless. That's religion. But my kids, my younger kids who are in their early 20s now, they listen to my stuff. Being, what's yours? Well, they love the rock and it's not because of anything with me, I'll be in the car with them. That's because it's good.

Exactly, and I'll say, why are you listening to that Led Zeppelin? Like, how did you find that? And they go, well, I just, you know, it's great. Yeah, because they have not improved upon it. Exactly. I mean, they've done other great stuff. I mean, it's great artists now,

but they haven't quite improved on that and that particular sound. Yeah, but I mean, there are songs that come out now that I think, oh, that could be a hit in any decade. Those are my kind of songs. And I'm certainly not a music snob. I'm the opposite. Like, I just wanna be entertained.

I have no music ability, so I have no dog in this fight except entertain me. I don't care about important music. Yep. What a great way to have a shitty record collection. Let me get the most important songs. No, no, no. I'm just...

And when the Beatles arrived, it was like... How old were you when you were 64? Well, it's like... I was 64, I was 12, 13, something like that. I think, yeah. Where were you born? Wait, 51. So what was I? So you were 13. 13, yeah. And it was like life-? I don't know. Where were you born? Wait, 51. So what was I? So you were 13.

13, yeah. And it was like life changing. Life changing. 13 is like the exact age you'd want to be when the Beatles arrived. I mean I was eight so I was not really into music yet and I just knew there was some hubbub going on. No, when the Beatles showed up it was like,

you know, and then when the Beatles showed up, it was like, you know, and then, you know, when the Beatles showed up, it was like, you know, okay, wait a minute, you know, it kind of like, you know, gave you that feeling that did for me anyway, that, you know, maybe I could do something. No, and I'm sure the kids, if anyone listening to this, are like, okay, Boomer, the Beatles. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it's like what we said about some shit our parents were talking I'm like, okay, boomer, the Beatles. It's like, and it's like what we said about some shit our parents were talking about, like certain things you had to be there. And if you weren't, it just sounds like two old farts who were like getting all gaga about something that probably wasn't that great. But it was, but it wasn't completely unique in history either.

I mean, there've been other pop phenomenons I mean Taylor Swift obviously now. Yep is on a level that we rarely see in show business I had Nikki Glaser here. I listened to that. Oh, thank you I'm not listen to it and then I'm gonna take it or advice and listen to the Taylor Swift Album that she recommended. Well, she recommended the movie. I'm gonna see that, the one on Disney Plus. Okay, I'm halfway through it. And? And I must report, my opinion has not changed.

Okay, well I... I gave it a shot though. I mean, and as I always say, when Taylor Swift comes up, I have the greatest admiration simply for success. I also have great admiration for the way she conducts herself. You know, she never misses a show. She's not late. She's a class act.

Right. But I don't get the music. I really don't. I mean, Nikki was here and saying that. I said, what is the key? And she's like, well, the music is just amazing musicianship and the lyrics. And I'm like, OK, great.

I'm going to give this a shot. Now, maybe the second half of the show will blow me away. I mean, it's three hours long. I don't watch anything, hardly anything, in full increments. I watch things like I read a book. I don't read the whole book at once, and especially something like this. But halfway through, but again, I mean,

I'm looking in the audience, and it's 20-year-old women. I'm almost a 70-year-old man. I mean, that is just apparently a bridge too far for this particular phenomenon. Other things we do share. But yeah, I just, and they are certainly into it. And it also says, maybe this is a great indication of the span of time and how much things change.

I mean, Ray Kurzweil talks about the singularity. That's his great book about when we will meld almost fully with machines. We're certainly halfway there. I mean, there are people who have artificial lots of stuff. And, you know, Elon Musk is working on people who can move things with their mind when they don't have the use of their arms and stuff like that. But to see everyone in the audience not watching the concert, but watching through the phone. They're watching their phone, not

the thing that they are purposely putting a filter between something that they know must be filmed and they could see somewhere other than their own phone. That to me is a difference of kind, not just a difference of degree, a difference of kind that my generation would never wanna do. To purposely put this filter, and they're all doing it throughout the show.

You see, whenever they cut to the audience, it's all followed. But are they trying, are they doing that so they can like zoom in, or are they recording it so they can keep it? I think both, but I think a lot of it is recording it. Yeah. Which makes no sense.

First of all, you have a mind. You can remember it, and sometimes that's better. And she's recording it. You can always see it. It's like, you ever see people at the, where the Mona Lisa is? I mean, they're all taking pictures of the Mona Lisa. It's in the gift shop.

You could get a better version. A beautiful eight by ten of it. Exactly. Could hang it on your wall. No, I know. No, it's but. It's odd. But isn't it about that thing

that everyone just has in their hand now that they can just, isn't that just like this thing where everything, we have to take pictures of everything I eat. I mean, people taking pictures of their food. I mean, oh, look at this presentation. I got to. Yeah, they actually stopped doing that more than they used to,

but the point of, like, and Nikki was saying it when she was here, like, she sometimes feels if some event in her life has passed without her recording it, that she missed an opportunity, which is a mindset I can't even get into. I mean, I understand it. And I think the people who are even younger than her, because she's late 30s, the kids who are like 18 or 15,

they don't even have this quandary. They know you always record it. I remember, I think Bill Gates did an experiment once where he had somebody walk around with a, it wasn't an, I'll use iPhone because, but it wasn't invented yet, but like a device that every minute took a picture. So wherever this guy went his whole life, so his whole memory was put in a, was kept. And the reason, the theory behind that is so we don't,

so we can use our brain for other things. So we don't have to, we don't have to have wasted mental space for our memories because we can always go back into this database and see where was I on this day? Let me scroll over here and then. That is what we're moving toward. It is, isn't it?

Kind of. Well, the cloud is kind of that. Yeah. I don't want to be divorced from my brain. No, but I mean, but it is interesting when I've got one of those, I've got one of those digital photo things on my desk, loaded with all the digital pictures

from all my kids and everything. And you know, the thing is, something will pop up and they'll go, oh, I remember that. I don't know, it's kind of like the things growing by, but I wouldn't have just remembered it. But I mean, I assume as AI becomes more prevalent and everyone has it on their phone, and everyone uses it more for more things,

I assume it will slowly be doing this, just taking over different parts of our brain. I mean, isn't that what AI is ultimately is a colonizer of our brain? Probably, I think it is. And we're inviting it in. And we're not really interested in putting the brakes on because now it's a race,

not only between different countries like us in China to have the upper hand, but also between companies to make the most money. Of course. I mean, you see even the people who started out as, we don't wanna be in the profit business with this. Wait, what did I say? What I meant was we wanna be in the profit business.

I mean, come on, this is America, we make profits. So, yeah. I kind of agree with you, but isn't all technology a trade-off ultimately? And isn't it always feared when it first shows up? Always. Yes, it is feared. That doesn't mean this time couldn't be the one.

It could be the one, but this is the one thing that could cure cancer too. Exactly, I don't even give a shit if they become our robot overlords. Because, I mean, the odds are I will certainly be dead within 30 years. That's true, we gotta think about that. Unless AI.

Stops that. Comes in and Rudolph the Red Nose reindeers his way into my heart by saving us at the last minute with his glowy nose. Because that is definitely possible. I mean, AI in 30 years could keep people alive forever. Now the next question is, do we want to be alive forever? Well, there you go, that's the big, that is.

I mean, if I can be alive like I am now, yes. Yeah, but then, you know, the thing, of course, because I did, I made a movie about that, which was, you know, Death Becomes Her, which is, which is, well, you want to sit around and watch everybody you know die. Right. I mean, or maybe, well, but then if nobody dies, then what?

That's a whole, that's, you know, that could be a really interesting movie. Yeah. I mean, do we want to sit around and have conversations like this for like the next 100 years and never stop? I could sit around and do this, which is, I mean, it's one reason why I love starting this podcast. This is what I would be doing anyway, probably on a Wednesday night, taking a little break

from my work week, my real job. But now I get to do it with you. Or you know, Cheech and Chong were here last week. Oh really? Yes, I mean, people come to see me like this. It's just, how could I ask for anything more in life? I mean, to sit here and just be able to, and you haven't had even a drink.

I have some water. You don't drink? No, I did back in the day, but I don't drink anymore. A lot? Enough that it got to the point where I needed to stop. Like flight? Oh yeah. That's an awesome one.

Really. That's a great one. So great. That was a great performance. Yes. Again, John Huston. Yeah, no, right, exactly. But it's also like, is he the best one to do that?

Probably. But it's not like no one else could have done that part. It's a great idea. No, it's a great idea. Beautiful screenplay. Yes, so good. Who wrote that, you? No, John Gatins wrote that. Yes, so good. Who wrote that, you? No, John Gatins wrote that.

Oh, so good. I mean, again, totally stuck the landing. The great end. I mean, again, you got to have a good ending. And him, first of all, with the hotel room door and the fucking mini bar. Do you know how many mini bars I've been in? I mean, I've been on the road my whole life.

Mini bar, that rang true to me. Not that I've ever fished through the whole bar and gotten shit-faced drunk in a hotel room, but I get it. And then, you know, the switch at the end and flying the plane upside down. It ain't just a bad, I mean I said this to somebody who was here recently, he is my all time favorite.

Like Denzel, as far as I think. I mean I like a lot of people, but he just knocks it out of the park every time. Oh, he shows up with the goods. He really does. He really does, I mean, I mean, I mean, he shows up and he's ready to, he's ready for it. Oh, you can tell.

Oh, yeah, I mean, just absolute joy to work with. Yeah, he looks like no-nonsense, but still. He's not warm and fuzzy, he's not warm and fuzzy. Good. And he explains it to the crew. Yeah. And he'll sit there and say, look, you guys have to understand something.

Either am I. You know, well, yeah, he says, look. You don't have to be. He says, you guys have to understand something. Either am I. Well, yeah, he says, look. You don't have to be. He says, you guys set up the shot, and now you want to let your hair down and relax. But now it's, no, I got to come on, and I got to do it. So I don't have time to make small talk with you. I mean, that's not what makes a good boss.

I think I've always been a pretty good boss at my shop. And I'm not the pat everybody on the back and learn everyone's name and all the things, you know, like people do, ask about your wife, but I'm also not mean and I don't yell and I don't, you know, I think people appreciate it when the boss just isn't in your life at all. I think you're right about that, I mean,

it's not like you have to like know what everybody's personal life is. You need your little kitchen cabinet. And then everybody else just do their job. And I'm respectful, but yeah, I can't be friends with everybody. But I don't have a problem coming in and saying good morning to everybody. Of course not.

Of course not. I don't want to come in and say, why is that cable over there? Try not to do that. Right. But. No, I mean, you hear lots of horror stories about sets, and I mean, there's hardly ever a movie set you hear about where there wasn't some,

and I've been on some back in the 80s when I did acting. It wasn't uncommon that there was some blow up. I mean, there's just a lot of tension. You're mixing dangerous chemicals. It wasn't uncommon that there was some blow up. I mean, there's just a lot of tension. You're mixing dangerous chemicals. People are just fucking tense. And then, so. And it's a lot of money.

And you're always under the clock. Right. And you're actually doing pretty insane things. I mean, you're always making it rain when it's sunny. You're making it night when it's day, and it's like, it's just, it's... And the actors are on this hairpin, because their instrument is having, Spilka's going around in their gut.

That's what their fuel is. So they're on this kind of edge anyway. So like one guy who crosses and gets in your eye line when you're trying to concentrate and it's like, can everybody fucking, you know. That is not uncommon. If people wanna be in show business, no. That's gonna happen a lot.

Yeah, and it does happen and you gotta be respectful because they're under a lot of stress and they have to do it and then by the way, it's like, um, now, you know, when you walk into a set situation like that and you know, cause you know, even though no one says it and you're going, I know that they got to get out of here in 30 minutes, you know, and, and, and, and, and you can just see it in a director's face that, you know, he's going to like, I can't go over, I can't come back here And you can just see it in a director's face that he's gonna like, I can't go over,

I can't come back here another day, they're gonna fire me, all that stuff that goes on in your brain. And the poor actor's gotta step on his mark and just do a great performance, and I got no time. It's just a horrible situation to be in. But we do it for whatever reason. No, I mean, movies, I's just, it's a horrible situation to be in. But we do it for whatever reason.

No, I mean, movies, I've always said it. Movie stars, people who make movies, directors, all you guys, I mean, they're paid a lot and they deserve a lot. It's really grueling. The hardest time for me is when you're doing a movie and, well, this is why I say, this is why they pay doing a movie and, and well, why not, this is why I say,

this is why they pay me the big bucks, is when you're doing a movie and you hire a really solid actor who's a day player and he's one of the first people you cast and then you go off for six weeks and you're in with the key cast and you're in a groove and everybody's in a rhythm and everything and and and and this guy's been working on his scene For six weeks all by himself and it's kind of okay. Come on. Come on in and action and

He's in a different movie Completely different movie, right and then and then a hundred people turn and look at me, the whole crew, because the crew and everybody goes, this isn't the movie we're making. This isn't the movie we're making. And the guy just was doing his best. He was doing his best, but he wasn't in with the, wasn't with the, and then I've gotta go

and I've gotta then fix it, right? And then you gotta like, okay, and that's where, that's the toughest part. Is there an example of that? I can't give, I can't give, there's a few, but I can't, I can't, but there's a few, but there's- But sometimes there are actors in movies who are at such different levels

that they're almost in two different movies. Sometimes, yeah. They're just, you know, and it's obvious. I mean, it's just like two people in a band playing different. Yeah, and that's really rough. I don't think I've had that. That doesn't happen in, no.

I don't think I've had that, but you can see it in movies. I can see it in movies, in really good movies, and you sit there and you say, that, those are really interesting choices that actresses make. It's an age thing. Think so?

I know so. Like, actors, just like people, generally get better. Smarter, wiser, they've seen the pattern go around before. So, actors who are like in their 50s, 60s, they're great. Like they just, they just, it just, and when you're in your 20s, they're doing the best they can but they're just not on that level. Just like you're not in life.

I wasn't, you know, I was an idiot in my 20s. I mean, you know, just as far as maturity level, and it shows. So if there's a guy who's 25, and he's in a scene with a guy who's 60, they're kind of in a different movie. I would say that the toughest to work with is the 20-year-old actor.

Of course. That's the toughest because they're just 20 years old, you know, and there's a lot of pressure on them. But then there was somebody I was working with, Michael J., and he was only 20 and he was just great. And that whole cast I had in that movie, they were all great. But they're the ones that are tough. I have a funny story I could tell you. When I was, I just remember I was listening to Jack Warden

and I was fortunate enough to work with him on my second movie, Use Cars. And he gathered all the young actors and he was telling them, he said, I was listening to this, he was dropping on this story. He said, I always thought when I was starting out that the best way to get more screen time is to slow my performance down.

Right? Who said this? Jack Warden. He said it. He said it. I swear. And so I was doing it. And then I went to the movie that I was in and I was cut out.

I wasn't in it. Yeah, because you drank. So now I just say everything so fast that they can't get the scissors in there. Isn't that funny? Because that's what you're always saying to the novice actor, pick it up, pick it up, take the air out, take the air out.

You know, okay, all right. Right, just get on with it. Just entertain us. Well, you have entertained me so many times. I am a giant fan. I know, I appreciate that. But you are Hollywood royalty for a reason. And it meant a lot to me that you would come buy my crazy little rat skeleton.

This has been an absolute joy. Don't be a stranger. Keep making movies. Thank you so much. Thank you. Really appreciate it. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. It's fun. It's really fun. Like I said, I had never done one of these before.

So I've done the bullshit junket where you just keep getting the same shit ass over and over and over again.