Club Random with Bill Maher - Sheryl Crow | Club Random Classics with Bill Maher

Episode Date: June 18, 2026

In this week’s Club Random Classics, Bill sits down with Sheryl Crow for a candid conversation about the insanity of becoming famous at a young age, why streaming has upended the music business, and the surprising things that still make him cry. They discuss the legendary artists who have championed Sheryl throughout her career—from Prince and Michael Jackson to Bob Dylan and Mick Jagger—as well as her songwriting, her secret to holding onto her money, a conversation with Kid Rock in the aftermath of a national tragedy, Bill’s personal Sheryl Crow playlist, and which artist he thinks is most like his dog, Chico. This episode originally aired on March 24, 2024 Subscribe to the Club Random YouTube channel: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/c/clubrandompodcast?sub_confirmation=1⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Watch episodes ad-free – subscribe to Bill Maher’s Substack: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://billmaher.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you listen: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/ClubRandom⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Buy Club Random Merch: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://clubrandom.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices ABOUT CLUB RANDOM Bill Maher rewrites the rules of podcasting the way he did in television in this series of one on one, hour long conversations with a wide variety of unexpected guests in the undisclosed location called Club Random. There’s a whole big world out there that isn’t about politics and Bill and his guests—from Bill Burr and Jerry Seinfeld to Jordan Peterson, Quentin Tarantino and Neil DeGrasse Tyson—talk about all of it.  For advertising opportunities please email: [e-mail] ABOUT BILL MAHER Bill Maher was the host of “Politically Incorrect” (Comedy Central, ABC) from 1993-2002, and for the last fourteen years on HBO’s “Real Time,” Maher’s combination of unflinching honesty and big laughs have garnered him 40 Emmy nominations. Maher won his first Emmy in 2014 as executive producer for the HBO series, “VICE.” In October of 2008, this same combination was on display in Maher’s uproarious and unprecedented swipe at organized religion, “Religulous.” Maher has written five bestsellers: “True Story,” “Does Anybody Have a Problem with That? Politically Incorrect’s Greatest Hits,” “When You Ride Alone, You Ride with Bin Laden,” “New Rules: Polite Musings from a Timid Observer,” and most recently, “The New New Rules: A Funny Look at How Everybody But Me Has Their Head Up Their Ass.” FOLLOW CLUB RANDOM https://www.clubrandom.com https://www.facebook.com/Club-Random-101776489118185 https://twitter.com/clubrandom_ https://www.instagram.com/clubrandompodcast https://www.tiktok.com/@clubrandompodcast FOLLOW BILL MAHER https://www.billmaher.com https://twitter.com/billmaher https://www.instagram.com/billmaher Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Start your Alienware Journey with a streamlined Alienware 15, with a design that refines the essentials for a more focused gaming laptop. Featuring a brilliant 15.3 inch 165 Hz display seamlessly engineered into a portable 15-inch body, powered by an Intel Core 7 processor for high performance during every session, all wrapped up in the elite and durable alienware design. It's everything you need for an immersive gaming experience, distilled into one iconic machine. Visit alienware.ca slash alienware 15 today.

I don't know about you, but I'm a big fan of Green in all its forms. I get it. And for fellow lovers of, well, Green, the Club Random Merch Store, has you covered. Grinders, papers, and Zippo lighters, all designed to support your relationship with Green, wink, wink, whatever, and whatever philosophy comes with that for you. head to clubrandom.com and bring home some random. Well, this week on Club Random Classics, Cheryl Crow, wow, 30 years in the music business usually leaves people either crazy, bitter or both. No, Cheryl somehow avoided all of that.

We talk about music and fame and relationships and kids and cancer and getting older and how to survive in an industry designed to drive people nuts. She's amazing. I love her. smart, funny, honest, everything you'd want, and exactly why this was such a good episode and a conversation. And if you haven't already subscribed to Club Random,

wherever you get your podcast, do so and watch full episodes on YouTube. New episodes every Monday with Club Random Classics every third Thursday. So nice. I didn't expect a suit. Well, it's not a suit. I know, but you know.

But I did that for you. I'm very stressed. I wear my rock teeth. Also, full disclosure, because it's kind of cold in here. So, like, oh, I can know. But, no, are you kidding? You know, the coolest booking we ever had. Don't ever say that to the other guests.

Although, you know what? Every other guest I've ever had, and we've had some of the coolest people ever here. They would still agree with that. No one would say, no, that's not the coolest booking. Really? I don't know. Well, I'm such a fan.

I'm excited to hear that you are getting ready to have Kid Rock at the Ryman. And you see that that's, you're a good. I compare my dog to Kid Rock because he barks at nothing. So my friend... That is hilarious. My dog has one eye. That is my dog has one eye. That is my dog.

Isn't that awesome? I was here about your dogs. Are these their beds over here? No, that's because this is a hippie. Yes. Do you remember this show politically incorrect? Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah, of course.

So, like, I was thinking, because I watched your documentary. You didn't want to kill yourself afterwards? Why? No. It brought me to tears the ending. I thought when it was like 20 minutes to the end, then we meet your kids. I'm not a kid person, so I was like, oh. You're like, wah, wah. Not that kids. But it was okay, you did it well. And then moved on. And the ending at, was it Benaro? Bonaro. What is it? Bonarro. What is it? Bonarro. I mean, what a great ending for a documentary, which is, I did one. You know, you're a I was looking for an ending.

And, you know, you think you get out there, there's nobody there a half hour before the show. And you were like, oh, I'm a legacy act now, you know, and the kids are over me. And then it's this in a half hour of the sea of people. And you said you were looking at your band, like, can you guys believe? I know, literally. It's like they let us out of the old folks home.

And look, they've let all the kids come out into the parking lot. Yeah, but, you know, I can't believe you ever thought you were ever out of style. It's weird. I mean, you know, you've been around for a long time. I don't know if you feel this way, but now listen, and I've said this a thousand times, my 13-year-old when he was nine, he's like, Mom, you know you were born in the 1870s.

You do get to the point where you feel like, God, I'm aging out of this business, you know. Well, you certainly... I did wear my leather pants specifically for club random. You look great. You always did. You know, you're a rock chick,

So, you know, I mean, you were born to be one. Oh, my God. Thank you. Really, don't you think? I mean, not just the great music, but also you had the look. And you also had the what it takes to, like, you know, I'm sure. I saw in the documentary, the harassment, which is not surprised. Like, I've had girlfriends in this business. One of them said to me, and she's quite successful.

She said, I've never met a man. in this industry who didn't try to have sex with me. Well, yeah. That, yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's, I don't know, do you want names or do you? No, no, but doesn't that just sum it up? It is, it is a, it's like a given. I mean, it's a weird business, you know.

I was not, I will say, and I was older when I made it, like really made it. I had already been a school teacher. I had to have lots of jobs. Had I been young like they are now, there's no way. If what? If I'd been young like these kids are now that are coming up and becoming huge, like Olivia Rodriguez, who's like 20 or 19, and Taylor, who made it with you.

And Billy Eilish. There's just no way. I would not be able to deal with it. Well, and you see that they sometimes fumble the way through it. I mean, they actually do better than you might expect, except that those kids, that generation, they're so used to. I mean, everyone is sort of famous now. They're so used to, you know, I mean,

if anybody was ever prescient, it was Andy Warhol with everyone's going to be famous for 15 minutes. Yeah. So I don't think it's that big dive and splash into the pool that it would be for people in our generation because they kind of like were always like social media and it just got bigger. Yeah, yeah.

And also you as the artist manipulate it. Like you create your brand, you advertise your. yourself. You sell yourself. And then the music is just a byproduct of that and you're selling yourself so that you can tell tickets and get advertisers. And just that was not, that was never part of the way I came up. You know, there just was none of that. In fact, until Bob Dylan did the Victoria Secret ad, nobody did advertisements or took money for anything except for playing music and selling records. So it's just a different thing. But the main difference is that you can't make money.

You cannot make money. I mean, how insane is that? It makes me sad. A very serious relationship with someone who I say was quite successful. But the money, I remember I had, I think it was kind of at the behest of her at the time, I did someone at the top interview of my show to, you know, just get this aloe black, the artist. And talking about just this issue of like,

who is it, Farrell, I think, had one year had like the biggest song of the year, and he made like $12,000. I know. I mean, Spotify, would they pay, what, a millionth of a cent for? I mean, it's just, there's no... It makes me so mad.

There's no connection to, like, oh, I go to the record shop, and I got to choose... I remember once I was standing in Tower Records and I was looking at, like, I don't know, but some stranger who don't usually talk to me just said, get the Dylan.

I was looking at like two albums, and one was like the big, this is like 1985. I miss that. I miss. We went to the bookstore this morning, or this afternoon. My manager,

I walked from the hotel to the bookstore on Sunset. Now, that bookstore, I used to live right down the street from there. And I have so many memories from that bookstore on sunset. You're talking about book soup? Yes, right across from

what used to be Tower Records. where I played in the parking lot when I was first newly signed. Oh, it was big too, big deal for me to play. I mean, there was probably 30 people there and I was like, oh my God. What was the event though?

It was my record release. Oh, I see, so they did it at the record so it was like a book signing. Yeah. And 30 people showed up? Yeah, there's probably 30 or 40 people there. That's great that you have that. I mean, it's great.

It's just like, for these kids now, it's like, I don't know. I mean, yes, I was born in the 1870s. What can I say? I hate it because for me, when you sold records, you knew you had your people. They're people that were like into what you're doing. How does it even work now? We just went on TikTok, which I will say I called TikTok, and my 13-year-old was like,

Mom, Mom, you just can. No. Really, President Biden? Literally, literally. Yes. They're like, that's so cringy, Mom. But we, like, they can do and know things about that phone and that device and that way of life that we don't even know about. We're like a submarine where we lost our sonar.

We're flying blind. And so, I mean, I've read this many times. It's a common story that the parents, something happened. Usually it's something tragic like a suicide. And the parents are like, oh, my God, we had no. idea and you know and then they said we tried to look we or they'll go we we we look through the phone yeah they not they have ways to fool you and you are so you are so basic on this fake snapchats they have fake Instagrams the good

thing is I have a young so my the young woman that I hired to go on the road with me with my kids when they were really little is now my assistant and she does all my social media. She's fantastic. And she's like my, she's like my investigator. Because I don't know how to work anything. And I don't really want to know how to work anything. I really don't want to know.

I'm just like, I don't want to know. I like to read books. I like to listen to books, you know. Someday I'm going to do a show called My Five Wives. I thought of this. Have you had five wives? No, I've had no wives. and the reason why I don't have needed any

is because I have five different, my assistant. I know. I'm honestly like, who needs a husband? I have a great assistant. And then my great friend who made this, this next door, he goes on the road with me, and, you know, he does all the macho stuff. He's like, I have five wives and a husband.

You know, like, I can't fix shit. He fixes all the shit, you know, because something's always broken. Yeah. That's a great record. You know how you can tell I'm such a fan of you. Not only of your music, but we have the same taste. Some of the songs you've picked to cover are like not obvious ones.

Like beware of darkness. I love that. And everything is broken. I'm not someone who listens to everything. I don't know that you even know that song. That's what I'm saying. You picked songs. Oh, another one, sign my name.

Oh, yes. One hit wonder. I remember that. Right? Right? Yeah. Yeah. The whole record.

That record was great. Yes. And that was the single, I think. Yeah, it was. It was huge. But that was a cover that I'm sure most people did not know was a cover. Yeah. Oh, well, that's a compliment.

Those are all ones that are in my iPod. I know. I hear that you still use an iPod and I love you for it. There I said it. So much better. I mean, I can, first of all, I can edit on it. Can I edit on it? Yes.

You can cut off the beginning and the end. You can make this. Oh, really? Yes. See, I don't even know how to work an iPod. You were around for the... I was, but I didn't know you can edit on it. On your computer, because you do everything on the computer and then you sync it to the computer.

Okay, you download it to it, right? So I love that. I mean, I'm anal. So I like the... I can see exactly the song... And I don't... Streaming with this... You might like...

I might not. I want my music. Yeah. Like, I download records. listen to them, keep the ones I love, discard the rest. There's nothing, there's no waste in there. When I put it on shuffle, it's my 4,000 favorite songs from going back to 1968. Now, how do you get turned on to new songs?

Anyway, you know, like, you can hear it. I could see a, you know, I'm like... So you would hear it, and then you go on your computer and download it from like Apple Music, or do you... No, no, no. Yes, I change. I pay for it. Okay. Do you actually buy the record? I put Pandora.

Okay. Is it Pandora? Yes, Pandora, which is stupid. I love you, Pandora, but you are dumb. You can't do what I can do with playlists. You can only play songs from, like, the same era. It's algorithm. They don't really have, right.

I can put a playlist together from, like, many different decades, but they all have the same vibe. Pandora, you can't do that. But you're dear to me anyway. Anyway, so I'll like put a station, you know, you pick a song you like. Okay, let's hear the whole station songs that are like that. Okay. That's how I often know.

And then you just hit thumbs up and then you have a list of new stuff. And usually if I like the song, I'll say, okay, I'm going to buy because I buy. You are committed. Yes. You are committed. Well, first of all, I think artists should get what they have coming. I'm telling you. I know this intimately.

I do too. Okay. So I'm going to do my part. So I buy the album. You can still do that. As Emilio Harris says, that's your way of voting. Exactly. And then, you know, sink the iPod.

Usually buy three albums like at a time. So then let's do those three. And I'll sync the iPod. And then I'll listen, you know, listen. Look, I know you have a new one. They sent it to me two days ago. First of all, I just don't have time. Second of all, I want to do.

I want to buy this the way I bought every one of your albums, and I bought them. They're all good. Not all of them. Well, there's good stuff on all of them. Okay, thank you. So I take out the ones I like, but your Cheryl Crow playlist is just fantastic.

I mean, it's just one after another great one. Thank you. So all your hits I like. Thank you. I also love, I don't even know what was a single at my age. You know, like was Abilene? Was that a single? That was not a single.

Okay, that's a great. great one. I don't even know what it's about. And I love it. God, thank you. I, my favorite record, not my favorite record, but the favorite record I've made in a long time. The funnest record I've made was a record called Be Myself. Oh, I haven't. Of course. I can't believe you have that record. I mean, literally, I think. Was that roller skate? Is that on that one? Yes. Yes. Oh, and Lifestyle? Yes. Oh, my God. I can't believe you. Oh, always on my side. Is that that same record? That one was on. I can't remember what What record that was on.

Okay, that one, I hate to say this. Like, nothing makes me cry. Well, not in life. I'm not a crier, but movies can easily. I don't know why. You don't cry? Not really over things in life. That's hard.

What do you cry over? Like, really, almost any movie that knows how to, like, hit that thing. I'm a really easy cry. Okay, the holdovers. I cried at the end of that. The holdovers. Yes, it was the one with, what's his name, about the school, the prep school boy

who gets left for Christmas. What's the guy's name that plays in him? It plays it. Anyway, check it out. I cried at the end of it. It was so weird. Yeah, it's very easy to do that to me. But musically, much less so.

And I didn't even know why that song, oh, I guess I do. It's just beautiful. And it just never really moves me to tears and very few songs. You know what song? Which song was it? Always on my side.

Always on my side. Oh, thank you. The Sting version? Both. Wow. One after another. You're good. Yeah, no, it's a great duet.

You know what? You want to hear something crazy about that? What? We shot the video for that four days after I was diagnosed with breast cancer. And I was supposed to present. at the Grammys with Lance, and we had split a few days before that. Oh, God. And Sting went with me to the Grammys.

Rough week, huh? It was surreal, but Sting was like, literally like Night and Shining Armour. He's like, I'll present with you. And he was like, literally, I look at the artwork from that song, and he's like, got his arms around me. I look like a freaking deer in headlights. But you are the... And that song, you know.

You are the teacher's pet for like every great male rock star over like 30 years. I mean, spanning the whole thing. I mean, Prince loved you. That's him. Mick Jagger and Dylan and, you know, all these different... Everybody, Michael Jackson. That's great. really know if he even knew who I was.

Like I ran into him at the Grammys after I toured with him for 18 months and I was just like, hey, and he was like, hello. And I was like, I didn't think he knows he like. You weren't his type, grown. But I don't know. I mean, I don't know. Oh, I think we know.

Yeah. Look, I'm very, try to be very non-judgmental. But, I mean, when Oprah threw her a lot in with the accusers, I was like, well, first of all, I believe the accusers. I mean, you can just tell. It's not that hard sometimes to tell when people are lying.

I just don't think there was enough in it and for these guys to, you know, there's always some money or some fame or something, but, you know, it's really hard to go forward even like that. Even like that, even in the beginning money, it's an icky thing, but he, on stage he certainly looked like he was a track.

Oh, I would say he was, he was insane. You know, he's one of those people. Well. I would say in all the years of my being on the road and working with different artists, and I've been really lucky. But I was new then, didn't have a record deal. And it's the first time I ever started thinking about why some people can manipulate 60,000 people physically. Like Carlos Santana says.

you change the molecules. I mean, and there's total divinity in that. If you believe in God or you don't, it's an energy thing. I call it divinity because it is divine and it is not explicable. But then there was this whole other thing, this damage and how a person can hold all of that.

I can see why he, I always say he won't live very long because you can't be able to have that incredible, incredible energy, energetic power, and be that damaged and have that inform who you are and you're living everyday normal life. It just was insane to watch because he'd go out and do these moves and sing these songs and you were just like transported. You're watching something that had never been done before. It's just incredible. I mean, I will never forget feeling how I felt. watching him from backstage. Yeah. I did not see

that, but I did see the movie they put out posthumously where he's doing rehearsals for the tour that never happened. Right. I did not see it. You haven't seen that? I don't want to... Okay, well, I'll try to make this brief. You're not triggered. You know, I mean, this is near the end.

He's about to go, remember was at the O2 in London? He was going to do... Yes. Who was the manager? the promoter who signed him for what was it, 100 shows, thinking Michael Jackson was going to make it through it. If he made it through one, it was going to be a victory. He was like Aaron Rogers.

Not since the guy who turned down the Beatles. Was there a worse decision than, okay. Anyway, so he's rehearsing, and, you know, it's intermittently with Dr. Conrad. Murray currently now my personal doctor. Is he really? No. Oh, my God.

I'm like, wow. Yes. I have Dr. Conrad Murray, Dr. Eugene Landy, who treated Brian Wilson. Yes, no, I know. And Dr. Benny Boombott. That's my team. No wonder you look so good. Thank you.

I owe it all to clean liquor. So, um... Oh, my God. What are we talking about? About the show, you watched the documentary. Oh, yeah. So, you know, a lot of it is, uh, and... But there was still moments where in rehearsal,

he would be the old Michael Jackson. and would just go off, and the other dancers and the crew were just like slack jawed, and then would burst into applause at the end. Yeah. So it was just like a flame that burned very bright consistently for a while. Start your Alienware Journey with the streamlined Alienware 15. They designed this machine to refine the essentials, creating a more focused gaming laptop for players who demand quality without the clutter.

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Yeah. That was never going to get through 100 shows. Never. Not even a healthy person at that. I mean, he was already like 40. Or I don't know how old he was at the time, maybe close.

No, closer to 50. 50. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I don't know. And no nose. You know, a noseless skeleton. That makes it tricky. It's going to perform a hundred shows.

Makes it tricky. It's hard to, like. But I must say, I mean, you said he's insane. Yes, that is a form of insanity. I think it's like. Insane in a good way. But also a conflicted way, a very conflicted way, you know. No, I don't think really a great way.

I think show business, I think. show business at that level. I mean, the thing you were just talking about, where the magic, the Carlos Santana thing, that energy, the divinity, whatever you want to call it, that thing is so powerful that the person who is reflecting that ray off them back to the audience, that ray is, is, is transforming their mind. I mean, we see it now with Kanye West. You just see it with lots of people who it's just like you're a normal person and then they can't handle this level of adulation and you can have anything you want.

That's what warps their brain. And you're allowed to pig out on whatever you want. I mean, it's like, it's like, you know, young athletes who become huge and get these massive salaries and then wind up, you know, having to claim bankruptcy. I mean, it's all too much. I don't know. I think money is, money is man.

It's not the money so much. But it's power, right? And the ego and adoration. That's what it is. The fame. It's no one ever saying anything but yes. And can I get you more? Can I get you a better drug?

Yes. Can I get you more pussy? And also, you're dispensable. Like whoever is serving. you is also highly dispensable. So that person, and having been around artists that have people that are the yes, people, they're terrified of getting replaced. So it's a vicious cycle, you know. Yeah. I mean, I can't imagine doing it as a woman. It's not rock and roll. Just in general, that lifestyle, it's not really, it doesn't jive with maybe modern women when we're all trans and

We're all non-binary and we make no assumptions at birth. But like old school women of which you are one and I love you for it. Let's say women classic? Yes, I'm a classic woman. Women classic? I'm a, what's the term? Something about a childbearing, you know. I have something or a menstruating person or whatever.

A menstruating person is what we now have to, yes, because we don't want to offend pregnant men or something. No, I don't, yeah. That's the kind of shit that drives me up crazy. Then it doesn't only work if you've gone through menopause. And then it's just, it's too complicated, Bill. It's just too complicated. Well, you know, there's nothing wrong with teaching that there is a default setting to certain things. And also, we completely accept and respect when something is not the default setting.

It's like most people are right-handed. That's the default setting. They used to actually discriminate against left-handed people. They thought it was like a sign of the devil or some shit. Really? But we got over that. I'm thinking of the left-handed people that I know. I'm not kidding.

Well, first of all, I know you don't have to do this. I can't tell you how appreciative I am. How flattering is it? I wanted to come do it. I know. I know that's why you're here. That's why I'm flattered. And I love your show.

I love the how thought-provoking and how truth-telling and how conversational is. You know, it is interesting talking about Bobby. You know, I've known Kid Rock for a lot of years. And he and I are... Picture. We're a great, I think, speaking of picture. I think we're a great illustration of two people

who are very, on very different sides politically. Of course. And we've had some deep... And hard conversations, like after the shooting in Nashville. Right. I called him and said, I need to understand what is happening. You know, I reached out to a lot of different country artists and got nowhere. And he said, I want to come over and talk to you about it.

And we sat and we talked about it and talked about his grandkids actually go to school where my kids go. Or his granddaughter. And people can sit and talk about hard stuff. And compromise. This is my quest to follow that song. I wish to go. No matter how hopeless. No matter how long.

Yes, that's what I'm always trying to do. Well, I appreciate it. Yeah, and I love me. When this came up, I was like, yes, yes. You know the people I fucking hate the most now? If you ask me, who do I think is the biggest threat to this country? It's not even close. It is the right wing.

They don't believe in democracy anymore or the environment. I know. It's scary. Yeah. It's very scary. Okay. Donald Trump still exists. He's still out there. We need a bigger boat. Blah, blah, blah. But, like, who viscerally makes me want to punch them in the fucking face? Okay, who? The kind of people who, like, if you were someone who, after doing picture with Kid Rock,

wouldn't talk to him because he voted for Trump, I'd hate you. Yeah. That's the kind of person I fucking hate. Okay, so I grew up with a conservative and a liberal. And when I turned 18, my dad and my mom secretly were like, who are you going to vote for? Because they would always cancel each other out, their votes. And it was always a thing. I mean, in our household, there were heated conversations about what was going on politically.

We had the nightly news, and that was it. Nightly news, and then 11 o'clock news, which nobody ever watched. So it wasn't like now. But people talked about shit, you know, and disagreed about it. And that's my only thing. I'm like, we got to get, what's happening now is terrifying. I keep saying it. You can hate Trump.

You can't hate everyone who likes him. It's half the country. You can't. Or at least vote for him. And as much as I would never do that and nobody's been harder on him, I get it. I get where different people are coming from. They didn't grow up like you. They don't think like you.

And you can't make them. And you shouldn't try. Right. Let's, you know, let's complete the circle and have our differences be our strength. That kind of stuff that they're always talking about. But it's true. I don't want to live in a country without the red states. I like going to the red states.

There's something about that being there that I don't get here, like a bad fucking attitude. Yeah, yeah. Just, just, not as judgey. Sorry, I'm going in for my second. They told me there was free beer on this podcast, so I'm like, oh, yeah, all the. I gotta say, beer comes up in your songs a lot. I am a beer drinker. Oh, I can tell.

Now, let me just tell you, my wild years were a little later, right? What? My wilder years were a little later, and now I've pulled back to just, just the occasional, you know, beer. But have you ever counted how many songs of yours have beer in the? lyrics? What can I tell you? Just really hoping for that endorsement. What did you think when he shot the Bud Light, did you call him in?

I'm going to be honest with you. And I don't know if you'll see this or not. That's why I called him and said, I need to understand where the hell you're coming from when we just had. And I said, what is it Budweiser? Is it the trans Dylan? because neither one of those have anything to do with how much money you make or your freedom. He knows that.

Yes, he did. And so I said, I need to understand. And he's like, I'm going to come over. And I love him for that. Look. I mean, that's not the only reason I love him. But we are like family. Like, he told me, when my boys came along, anything ever happens, I'm there for your kids.

And he came over. And you know what? Before he left, we hugged and told each other, we loved each other. other. Yes. We hammered it out. Yes. You know. I mean, I had Anne Coulter on the show a couple weeks ago. Okay. And I'd done her on for a while, but I mean, I've been friends with her since 1994 or something. Yeah. And no one's going to make me not be friends with her. She's a fun chick to hang out with. And we don't talk politics if we're not on the show, because I know where she is and she knows where I am. Don't tell me who my friends can be. Yeah. Really obnoxious.

Yeah. That's the kind of shit I hate. I will say one thing. Talk to them. Maybe you'll find something you don't know. That is exactly right. And for me, I'm a research junkie. Like, I need to understand.

Like, whatever's happening in the world, I need to go back and find out what the history of it is. Because more than likely, what we know about it is not really the reality. But one of the things I'm learning is that people who have big platforms that you, do outlandish things in order to whip up your base. I mean, it's what politicians do. It's what people. And that is so ego-driven.

Okay, that's fine. We all know that all of us have big egos. And Kid Rock is not exempt from that. It's fun to whip it up and see what happens. You know what I mean? And that's kind of what he said. He's like, ah, it wasn't me, you know. It wasn't this.

I wasn't that, you know. He's a showman. That's what it is. But my thing is, I want to make sure that all the people out there that jump on the hate bandwagon and it becomes dangerous like we hate Dylan whoever and we hate bedwiser and all that y'all are being played y'all are being whipped into this us against them this is we're in this group of people that hate this and that and that's the part i have the problem with i don't like what i see on the news is a lot of college kids uh saying things to people who

support israel like you're nazi scum i mean who have who have everything so backwards that that's when I need to join but I will never light one up but can I hold one yes you can if I wasn't singing tomorrow I say light that bad boy up right now no I know I've never not but like for you first of all I would do I would do this on standing I would do this standing on my head but it is a little like running a marathon for the first time I'm saying I know it's got to be hard it's difficult first you're wearing a suit jacket and now you're not smoking. I just... I feel better now. I tell you much. I appreciate that.

You know, I appreciate that. I feel better now. I'm almost like George Burns with a cigar. Remember George Burns? He always had a fucking cigar. Yeah. Take my wife. After the stage of showbus as I'm at, I need the prop cigar. Oh God. Shoot me now. Hit me over the head with this fucking hip guitar. Your boy Willie Nelson signed that. Oh, I love that man. Yes. I do. Another one. Everybody

like adopted you. Everybody wanted to get a little of your shine. Listen, I'm blessed beyond. I don't even know what to say. I'm just blessed. I know that sounds stupid. Don Henley? Love Don.

He was in the news yesterday? What was Don in the news? Okay, I read the New York Times in the morning, and then I just want to know that the world hasn't blown up, although it is blowing up. I can't even go near it now. It's so toxic. But what's going on? He's suing. Well, he's suing Somebody

About lyrics. Lyrics. Notebook came out that he It has all their notes When they were doing their stuff, him and Glenn And they lost, he lost, right? Didn't I see that? I think I looked at the news last night after he landed.

Probably. I mean, it's hard to- I think he didn't get it back. Yeah. Yes. But it said the Eagles, that's their last tour I guess that they're on. And that's...

Really? You're right, because they even had to call one... They even had to call their most recent incarnation the Hell Freezes Over Tour because he had said in 1980, we'll get back the other one. Which is typical of their cheeky humor. I love those guys.

And that's one of the greatest bands and sounds of all times. And by the way, 60 Minutes, I saw your documentary opens that you're with whoever Steve Croft or... Oh, yes. Somebody. Yes. And I did it once. Joyful experience, isn't it, 60 Minutes?

But. I didn't even know what joyful experience was back then. Oh, I know. We were thrilled. I was thrilled to be on it. I was like, hey. I was thrilled to be on it again. Nice to meet you, Mr. Crawl.

No, exactly. I mean, 60 minutes. But they had the Eagles once. And they were putting a, remember they put out an album, very good album in 2007. They hadn't put out one in 28 years. And they put out one called Long Road to Eden. Yes, I do.

remember that. And it's really good. It's a double album. Yes, I do remember it. So they were promoting that and Steve Croft or whoever says to Glenn Frye like, you know, 60 minutes, and what do you attribute to the success of the, and he just, he just named the song titles. And I thought it was the most eloquent answer. And you could do the same thing. You just have to, like, give your song titles. If somebody ever says, what is yours, psychologically, how did you manipulate? Well, it's funny you should ask, because really all I want to do is have some fun. But you know what? If it makes you happy, I can't be that bad.

But sometimes the change would do you good. Yeah, I mean, that's really, at the end of the day to me, and that's again why I love the iPod, because I can just have that so I can know exactly how great an artist is. They just one after another. And you can do that. Look, in your business, if you have one hit, you can work forever. Somewhere. Somewhere.

Somewhere. story though I did it but if to do a whole show of hits yes that's you're that kind of act and that's why they'll always come out so I wound up on a gig with Lana Ritchie and billy Joel in Atlanta and which was I have to say really really fun I was I was the first one on and and in the backstage area I come back and Lionel's like Cheryl come in here and he pulls me into Billy's dressing room he's like the three of us we have hits we've got to go on a world tour we You got to take this thing on the world trip. Hits all night long.

Just nothing but hits. And then he turns around to me. It was like Borsh Belt. Cheryl, you know when you play new songs? I was like, no. Never. You never play them. He's like, they don't want to hear new songs.

They just want to hear the hits. And now every time I play, I'm like, I've been told never to play new songs, but I'm going to play a new song. And now I have a new record. So it's like, I guess I never play new songs. Well, but it won't be, you know. You sneak one in here or, you know, you sneak them in. I know how they do.

do it. Yeah. And then they go to the bathroom while you're playing it or hopefully buy a t-shirt. Yeah, but in five years, that record will be, there will be songs from that record that will be feathered in and they'll probably like those, you know, too, you know. Maybe. I mean, it's sort of aged out of having, you know, hits. So. Well, who knows even what makes a hit. Yeah, I get what you're saying. Yeah. It's hard to, uh, I remember McCartney put out a really great album in 1989 Flowers in the Dirt. I loved that record. And I thought it was like he did it with Elvis Costello.

Yes, I remember. So it was like one of the, it could have stood as a Beatle record. Yeah. It was that good. Yeah. That beetle-esque sound. And of course, he was 47 at the time. So it just, you know, that generation is just going to say, no, I'm sorry.

You had your moment. I don't care how good. it is, you know, dispassionately. Try being 62 and a woman, you know. Right. So, although, I mean, it is fun. Well, I would not, I wouldn't stop making records. I don't know about albums. I didn't make this an album because I had so many songs, but it's weird to put music out and know that a song is going to turn up maybe on a playlist with like, uh, Ice Spice. I mean, it's just, it's so antithetical, you know what I'm saying?

Like, you're on New Music Friday and you're like, be blocked between if you're lucky. But you go to football games with her, right? Ice Spice. Actually, yes, I was at a ballgame with her. Really? Yes. About 20 sections away. Oh. Yeah.

But wasn't she at the Super Bowl with Taylor Smith? Boy, if Taylor Swift thinks that she invented the breakup song, oh, I said this is somebody recently. First of all, she's got to listen to your so vain, Carly Simon, that kind of like... There's not a better one than that.

Well, there's not a better one, but Alone in the Dark by Cheryl Crow. Oh, my God. Was that a single? I love... Hell no. No, really? Oh, that's a real shiv in the gut. Are you hearing like an earpiece?

Why, do you think I'm so old that I can't hear? Alone in the Dark. No, no. You're so... I can't believe you know all these, like, deep cuts. Well, anybody who works here, I'll tell you, I'm a very big music fan. So I just, I know what I know.

Now, do I know, could I name every song on every album? No, but I have stuff from every album. Yeah. I have the ones that I really adore. Steve McQueen. Which one is that? That was a single. Yeah, that was on the third record, fourth record.

That's in the, that's in the tradition of the cool chick who's too cool to get tied down genre. Oh, yeah. That was amazing. Oh, my God. On that video, I got on my dirt bike. I mean, God. Oh, really? See, I don't remember the videos. Oh, yeah. In fact, I was hanging out with Dale Earnhardt in that video and never getting married. Right, because the McQueen, well, I need as a fast machine, right? Yeah. But do you remember the Stone Pony's Linda Ronstad? Yeah, of course. Doing different drum. Yes, of course. Yeah.

Do you remember that song? Yeah. That's that same. We travel to a different drum. Can't you see the way I run? Every time you make eyes at me, don't get me wrong. It's not that I knock it. It's just that I'm not in the market.

What a great rhyme. Knock it in market. For someone who wants to love just only me. I ain't saying you ain't pretty. All I'm saying is I'm not ready for any person plays or thing that tries to put the reins in on me, bitch. Damn. So that kind of song, I think, is we should do a whole, like, album of just those.

I could probably write an album of those. Freebird, get off my, you don't know me like that, get up off of me songs. You know, I've had this longstanding introduction to strong enough to be my man about how I never got married. I never got married. Got engaged three times. What, you did? Still have all my money. You're going to engage to Lance Armstrong?

It was. You know he sat right there a few months ago? I actually caught the very beginning of that. Oh. And I saw Bobby Kitt. I've seen actually quite a few of them. Wow, what an intense guy. Is he?

Lance Armstrong? Well, yeah. Who would know better than you? I don't know him now in this incarnation because he's... Wasn't he then? He was then. Of course. He was racing then.

Oh, I know, but like... He was intense. Just to pick that as a profession, riding a bike. Of course you got intense. I will say my 16-year-old is on a bass fishing team, which I didn't know was actually a sport. So when I met Lance, I was like, bike riding, that's a sport? It's not.

So, yeah, I didn't realize. Bass fishing is not a sport. Either is running around the block. But they may be in the Olympics. I'm going to have to dispute that with you just as long as I know my kid might be watching this. It is a sport. and the damn bass boat cost 70 grand, okay? It's not like buying a baseball bat, okay?

Baseball bat's $350, honey. Oh, my God. But you still drink beer. You still drink beer. I do. What drugs did you do back in the day? That's what I'm saying. Like the rock star life...

My wilder days were drinking, smoking weed, you know, smoking cigarettes, because I was super cool when I was drunk. Me too. Yeah, cigarettes. That's the one I regret. Yeah, I don't have the addict gene, so I could just, like, not smoke for, you know. Then I would have three glasses of red wine

and it would be, like, bumming cigarettes, you know. Wow. Very few people don't have the addict gene for nicotine. I do not have it. That's amazing. I didn't ever start the habit of, like, smoking when I was not drinking. So I don't know if I would have been, but I don't know.

Just did a guided mushroom tour recently, or guided mushroom journey, which I don't call that. I call it a tour. It was a tour through my very effed up brain, if you know what I'm saying. What do you mean? What were we talking about? Have you ever a guided psilocybin. Oh, cool.

Yeah. Guided, though. Yeah. Dude, Johns Hopkins. How bushy to have a guided fucking drug drug drug. I know. See, the thing is you can do mushrooms. I'm like, okay, yeah.

So you do it. But you've done Russians before, no? Yes, but not like medicinal, like full-powered, a two-and-a-half hour or three-hour where they give you some and then you take more and you do it with like a playlist. We're not talking about hyahuasca here. We're talking about mushrooms. No, no.

Because mushrooms I've done many times. So. And I, you know, it's, yeah, it's a trip. Yeah. I mean, what does the guide do? The guided. On your left. They say, if you look to the cerebellum, try not to look over to the,

I think more than anything, what they do is make sure that you're not, if you're not a person who does recreational drugs, it's more from a scientific standpoint for people who struggle with manic depression or depression or whatever it is. Right, and I think it's very helpful. It was helpful. LSD started out as that.

Until Timothy Leary got a hold of it. You know, that chair over there is his chair. Seriously? Did you watch or did you ever listen to the Michael Pollan stuff. Yeah, the food guy? So interesting, yes. Right.

No, no, no, yeah, but he did all the psilocybin. Yes. Yes. And then what fantastic fungi, a fantastic fungi or fungi, that documentary? Well, don't get me started on fungus. No, seriously. Really? Yeah.

I mean, I'm a big believer that it's something that we don't pay the kind of attention to we should. I think Western medicine sees everything as bacterial. Yeah. And they misdiagnosed stuff. And fungus is, I think, responsible for stuff. Even the CDC a few years ago finally said, if you don't know what something is, look to fungus.

Yes. And that was like many years late. So, like I said, don't get me started. I know, I agree. This is not really. I mean, but for those who want to look more. I'm so with you. I'm so with you.

I'm fungus? Yeah, man. I want to be in the fungus club. Fuck fungus. When HBO did that show, just they did some, they did a show. It was a huge hit.

What was it? It was called, The Last of Us, I think. Oh, yeah, I didn't see it. And it was about the villain in it was fungus. Oh, shut out.

And I said, finally, somebody's getting on the fungus thing. Oh, the villain. Like, not the same. Yeah, well, the villain in the sense that, okay. Whatever was taking over people and turning them into zombies.

Everything has to. You have to either a zombie or a Dracula. Come on, this is TV. But the thing that was behind it was fungus. I was like, yes, that's much more likely than, you know. Yeah. I mean, so many cancers are diagnosed as cancer when they're fungal. Well. My dog?

Case and point. Well, do you know what they do when they want to give mice cancer in the lab? They sautee some mushrooms. Basically. Really? They give them mycotoxins. Oh, wow. Yeah.

That's a, you know, fungus toxin. Yeah. Antibiotics are sometimes, are often. Well, weren't they derived from the fungus that could go on? Moldy bread. Yeah, moldy bread. Okay, so the connection, I'm not saying I know the connection, but I've certainly read about the subject and people have the theories. And it looks like there, I think there is quite a connection between cancer and fungal infection.

and, you know. But the crazy thing about it is, is that when they do studies about, like, forestry, how fungus or mushrooms create their own... Yes. The way they can actually go in and save some trees by creating their own antibiotics.

I mean, I think there's so many amazing possibilities, not just for humans, but also for the planet. I mean, at this moment when we're asleep at the wheel and nobody seems to give a shit about the planet because we're too worried about making sure, I mean, drives me crazy how we're turning a blank eye to this or a blonde eye. But anyway, the fact that mushrooms could be a huge answer to what's happening, to at least preserve it. Or a huge problem.

I mean, they can kill us. I mean, you don't want to breathe in mold. No, not mold. Yeah. Well, but, I mean, fungus is really strong. almost every plant in nature is antifungal because it needs to be because plants don't have legs they can't run away and then where they can repel it but take a lemon like the most antifungal thing it's pure citrus right right you leave it on the counter long enough what does it look like yeah has mold all over it yeah and he'll

eat through a marble countertop fungus is unrelenting I'm a hawk on fungus fungus is unrelenting the name of our new podcast. Extremism, and the fight against fungus is no vice, and moderation is no virtue. I'm a one-issue candidate. I'm a hawk on fungus, and I'm going to attack anyone who's to my left on this issue. But it is true. I mean, fungus, you should, you know, people should think about fungus more, like sinal infections.

I don't want to get started on. But I will say, for people who have struggled with depression, people who have, you know, mental challenges that the studies they've done at Johns Hopkins for years, it was shut down, they saw great outcomes for people with PTSD. I think at least people are starting to get back to the face where they can look at some of these natural, holistic as being at least worth, you know, legalizing. Oh, yeah. I mean, I don't think the amount of mushrooms that you took for psychological reasons would be the kind that would be bad for you.

And by the way, if you don't have a fungal infection, it's not, you can eat mushrooms. And, you know, your body has in it fungus that is natural that you need some good bacteria, some bad bacteria and some fungus. It's when you get the proportions out of whack. Antibiotics kill the good bacteria, which fight with the fungus for food. that's how we kill bacteria. But unfortunately, when they kill the bad bacteria, they kill the good bacteria. And then the fungus proliferate. Right.

Anybody who's had antibiotics probably has some level of a fungal infection. Oh, absolutely. And fungus live on one thing, sugar. So you always feed them when you're eating the kind of things that are in the American diet, serps and sugar and carbohydrates, that kind of stuff feeds when you're hungry like that. It's the fungus calling out for food. I told you not to get me started on fungus. I know.

I didn't know. You knew so much about mushrooms. Fungus. No one told me. Fungus. I'm telling you we could own it as a subject. This is to be a three-hour podcast. Only about fungus.

Only about fungus. And every week, but only about fungus. It's like those stores that say like only lamps. You know, excuse me, you have shades? I'm sure that happens Wednesday and the guy goes, Oh, and the LAMPS. What do I have to fucking put in the title? It says only lamps.

What do I have to do? Not lazy boys. But, no, I mean, you could do a, you know, morning talk show, if that's something you were, you, you could be on the view. What do you think about that, Cheryl? No, and no. Come on. And equivalently.

And what does it pay? The readings would be through the roof. I swear to God. First of all, you're from Missouri? Here's my thing. I don't really like people. No, I'm from Missouri, yes. Okay.

So, like, you have that accent. You know, you still? I have an accent? Yeah, you still sound country. Well, I live in Nashville now. Okay, but it's also in your roots. And I don't know what you're talking about. No, I'm kidding.

That's good, because everything is tilted. Toward the coastal elites and their people. The entire coast has moved to Nashville. That's true, too. Yes, it is. And, yeah, we'll see how that plays out in politics. You know, most of L.A. lives in Nashville now. Well, Nashville and Austin seem to be the kind of places.

Yeah. And I get it to a degree, Miami, but Miami's too crazy. Yeah. But, like, places where people want to go, where, No, I don't want to live in the sticks with a bunch of hicks, but I also don't want to live, you know, at the park in Beverly Hills where you can't throw a frisbee. Yeah.

Because of that kind of asshole. Is there a place in America where I can, like, get away from those extremes? That's... Where I can work from home. Yeah, where I can, like... And I can buy a really nice house for about a tenth of the price. And the money. And have a giant yard.

Right. Yeah, no, we're getting along with. But also, I'm sure, you know, Nashville's not a hick town. It's where all the musicians are. It's like a little, I would say it's. There's places. It's a, I can't say it's like Austin where it's like a blue oasis. I mean, I think it's probably the bluest in all of Tennessee.

And it doesn't need to be. No. We have a miss. We have a miss. We can get a nice dinner. You can get a nice dinner. Right. You can go see Kings of Leon or you can go see Vince Gill.

or, you know. Yeah. I mean, Jack White. Right. It doesn't have the Metropolitan Museum of Art, but I never went there anyway. Who goes to those places?

Eggheads, that's who. I mean, everybody in New York is always like the museums. Like, how often do you go to a museum? You're fucking. You got there once a year. Well, I mean, I was never a culture vulture. I mean, I like culture. Culture vulture.

I like that. See, that's the thing, though, you find a culture virtual. Are you always looking? Unique New York, unique New York, unique New York, unique Unique Unique Unique, I'm sorry I've kids that's what we do but like are you always doing that like you're like a blue jay who's always finding little scraps you know blue jays for the nest because you know oh this could go this is a could go in a song this could be a title oh you mean like am I collecting constantly you should be like fodder like yes aren't you oh my god I used to when I would be making a record

or getting ready to make a record. Like we'd have a record out, we'd have success, we'd tour, I'd come home, I'd start writing, and it would be like, okay, what am I writing about? You know, lots of frantic, like checking what notes have I written. Now my kids leave for school. I got to my screen and porch,

notepad, guitar, cup of tea, and I write my freaking brains out. Really? There's so much to write about it. about right now. And honestly, literally a cup of tea or? Literally, no, coffee in the morning. Okay.

But I mean, I'm talking about 6.30 in the morning. No, I get done a lot done on coffee. Yeah. I really value that time, like, because it's only once a day. Me too. You know. I have three cups of coffee in the morning. Yeah, right.

You can't. But once a day, first thing, and then by the time you sleep it. Don't talk to me until I've had my coffee. My kids know it. They're like, don't talk to her. Right. And they abide by that? Really?

Yeah. Yes. In fact, my 13-year-old is a good. exact same way we're just like so would you and the kids in a house outside of Nashville yeah we're kind of yeah we're I can't we're not in downtown Nashville we're in Nashville and then you have a studio I'm guessing in your house of course over the barn I've horses yeah it's ideal it's oh come on who lives like me me yeah and do you can you like you have like a fireman's pole you can get right

down into the barn when you want it when you know no that's a stripper Yeah, no, I know. I recognize it from Kid Rocks House, okay? It was here when I bought the house. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's necessary for wiring. Oh, yes. No, I don't have a fire and spout. Actually, I don't even go down there unless I'm, like, going to record.

And I didn't do any recording on this record. I sent it to my friend and said, these are my mini screenplays. And I want you to Martin Scorsesey the shit out of them. and it was the most glorious experience I've ever had. I don't understand. Okay, so I usually produce myself, and I usually am like from the beginning to the end and playing and writing.

And this bunch of songs, because you know the last record I put out, I said, I'm not making records anymore. No more albums. Was that it? No, it was threads. Threads? With everybody, yes.

With lots of people. Again, you pick these songs that are like, Oh man, I'll tell you what, the song, though, with Johnny Cash and having him in my ear, I just had this weird, like, 11.30 at night, dead. But just all the conversations I'd had with him before he recorded it, I don't know. I just came out of there. I was like, I'm not going to make albums anymore. This is, it's done.

Maybe just not duets with dead people. Maybe that's the issue. I actually prefer duets with it. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. They can't complain, it's true. That is not true. Well, that's a great, because Tony Bennett just called.

No. Okay, all right. Okay, get me. But, no. So, this record, I, there's just, like, the AI thing is what started it. Reading about the Beatles, and I don't fault them. But I was conflicted about that. I do fault them.

And then the George Carlin thing sent me. Yes. I mean, it sent me. No, we're in. I paced. Literally my kids would leave for school and I'm like, what that? What are we doing here? Have you seen the Billy Joel, the new Billy Joel song video?

No. Okay. Am I going to like want to like go hang myself and then? Why? Because it's bad. No, what are we doing now with AI? You know, Billy Joel came out with his first song in 30 years. He debuted at the Grammys and it's very.

And that wasn't really him. That was AI? No. No. But for the video, they have him singing it. as himself now, but also as him singing this new song, but he only wrote now when he's 28 and 35 and 42. Okay.

So, and it's... Here's my thing about that. It's terrible. He's alive. He's... Okay, and here, I mean, he is. Harrison Ford did that whole latest... I saw it, yeah.

Where he, they've manipulated his face to make him look younger, right? And the Irishman, De Niro and... They de-aged. Yes. And, of course, me on social media with lots of filters, same thing. No, I'm kidding. But it's one thing if you're alive and you are controlling the image that you're putting out and you can actually address, yeah, we use AI.

But if you're using somebody else and manipulating, I mean, it's beyond deep fakes where it's like, I don't know. I mean, I actually called my attorney and was like, this is a weird thing. It's like negotiating real estate. space, which I know our countries are doing, where they're deciding who's owning what parts of space, which I find to be like, for me, I'm just like, I don't want anything to do, I don't want my image coming out, I don't want my voice coming out, I don't want any of my old demos coming out, I want it in writing for posterity, and I want it locked in something where AI can't get in there

and change my words. What I think is scariest is that when you look at the history of like when the technology comes along and does something horrible, their reaction seems to be, what are you going to do? It's technology. We can't do anything about it. Yes.

Think about, remember Napster? Napster. Okay. Perfect. So first, the technology comes along. Yeah, we're going to steal it now. Except for me and Don Henley, who are on Capitol Hill every 10,

like we're there every Tuesday, like trying to fight for stuff. Right. And the Senate subcommittees are all saying, well, it's already here. Right. But you can't do anything about it now. So they gave up on that.

Then Spotify, streaming comes in, and they gave up on, like, the basic model of business. Yeah. Yes. So why would I think now that this technology, they're not going to give up again on somehow guard railing this shit because... Well, they can't do it now. And for one thing, we're frogs in a pot. Because, you know that phrase, frogs in a pot? Yeah.

Yes. So I was talking to my kids about it. I worked with this amazing young songwriter recently who's written on tons of shit. And she played me a demo. It was a demo that she had written with a couple of people, and she sang it. And she's like, I needed a guy to sing it. So I paid $5 and got John Mayer's voice. And she played me the demo.

And it's John Mayer singing. What's the $5? She paid a service. It's like chat GPT. But instead you insert somebody's voice, and it replicates his voice. It's his voice, like not only his voice, but his inflections, his style. There's, I started crying. I was just like, I know John, there's no way I would not know this was him.

For $5. And she was talking about the chat, GBT thing and how she could put stuff in. It's not always good, but it gets your brain started. And there's always a couple of good lines. And I just was like, you're 21. I know this is what you're growing up in. I know this is normal for you.

But what is not normal about it, which you will never know is that the thing that creates art is like it's the human experience. It's not a computer's experience. And that's why I think we will survive to a degree

because the audience at some level, they don't know how to read anymore. It's a joke to the thing. I think they would get through a whole book. They actually make jokes about that, a book. Or a whole song. We don't get paid unless they listen to it more than 30 seconds.

Yeah, but people do still listen to whole songs. Bill Mark goes. Most, no, even the kids listen to songs. I mean, I don't think their attention's been so short that they can't get through a song if they like it. Yeah, yeah. They'll listen to a Zach Bryan song all the way through.

Who? Yeah, I don't know who that is. Zach Bryan? Zach Bryan? What do you live in the, yeah. No. No, I don't. I just don't.

I can't explain it to you. I mean, I can't explain it to. He was in the military, young kid, started posting songs on TikTok and became massive, and we went out and opened up for him, and it was like the Beatles. I've never seen anything like it. I've never, not since the Beatles,

have ever seen anything like it. Seriously. Well, we didn't see the Beatles. We were too young, even us. Yeah, but I mean, like the footage. There, 30,000, 40,000 kids with no hits, singing every word hanging on his every... I've just never...

From TikTok. Well, we'll see in 10 years if he's like the Beatles. Yeah. Because... From your mouth to God's use. Well, I mean, everybody... Look, music is like you were just saying, it's so primal. I know.

So, like, he's not the first one to come out and look like the Beatles for 10 minutes. You know, they are who they are because they grew... They were always one step ahead of the audience. Can this, maybe he can, maybe he's a gene. What do you think of the music? I'm sorry, I mean, you describe the crowd reaction,

but what about the music itself? Yeah, well, I mean, it's a taste thing. It's a taste thing. Well, there's a dodge. Yeah, right. Okay, so you don't think he's some musical genius. No, no, no, no, it's not that. I mean, actually, I mean, truth be told,

there's a whole lane of music now that sort of falls into the Americana, but actually it's sort of like old school country, like Tyler Childress, Zach Bryan, and they're writing songs about hard-living people with real struggles. Yeah, the guy... And it's three chords, four chords, and it's good. It's good. It really is good. Yeah, it can be.

Yeah. I mean, for whatever reason, it's resonating with 16-year-olds and 20-year-olds and 30-year-olds. And I'm down with... I'm here for it. They're writing stories. it's not six-second attention span. We've got to keep the listener in it.

It's like old-school verse, chorus that only changes a tiny bit. It's like Americana. Yeah. I mean, look, I'm just saying, I don't put any labels on things. A good song is a good song. I mean, I remember you did some album.

I have it. I have them all. And it's like they said it was, a country album. Oh, yeah. And it was like, yeah, I see what they were saying because they always want to glom on and get some sort of story. So they could make a story.

But it was just a good album. It was just a Cheryl Crow album. Yeah, there were some songs. They were geared more towards that. Well, there was the, oh, I love it, the one about the mascara running. Yes. Which is like so. That's why we're waterproof mascara.

But what's the next line? Because it don't run like. Because it won't run like. Like his daddy did. Like his daddy did. Which is like so close to parody. Yeah. Like that's so close.

You know I read that with? Brad Paisley. Brad, he was sitting here. He was? Yes, loved him. He's quite a great guy. He's one of my favorite people. He is funny.

Yes, funny. But also he's not what you think. He doesn't live in that like conservative. No, but he's also a guy who's from that part of the country. Yeah. You know, believe me, there are things. that the woke could find a hate about him. I love that word woke.

I don't. Okay, here's my saying. That is a funny thing that came out of my conversation with. Kid Rock, I had to call him Bobby, about being woke because he said you're so woke. And I was like, first of all, you quit calling me names. And secondly, maybe I'm woke. I mean, that was an old term that was derived from like slavery. Well, after that, I think, but it meant being alert to injustice.

Alert to injustice. I'm all down with that. I know. It just morphed into something that was an eye roll. I didn't do that. They did that. Yes, I know. And I told him, I was like, I'm so down with being woke if it means, like, wanting this country to run for all of us.

Here's a story that was in the news this week. Somebody wrote in the Atlantic. He used to work at the New York Times, talked about New York Times. I love the Atlantic. I don't know how you feel about it, but that's one of my go-toes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's hard to find fair pieces written anymore. Exactly.

You'll only get one side of every story. Yeah. Anyway, go ahead. So he's at the orientation, like for the new people at the New York Times, I think it was. And for some reason they ask, they're asking going around the room or something, and what do you want for lunch? And he says, Chick-fil-A. And they go, like head of the thing said, no, we don't do that here.

They hate gay people. and then all the people in the room start snapping their fingers like their beatniks in 1950 like, you know, yeah, man. It's like West Side Story. It's like stupid side story. Like, fuck you, we can't eat Chick-fil-A. You know what?

I will eat Chick-fil-A and Bud Light. I'll put them together in a beer-can chicken if I fucking won. This kind of, that kind of attitude is just so obnoxious. I know. And honestly, if you get me started, my public sister run in here in a minute and, like, she's got to go.

I mean, it drives me. Why, I said it. It drives. Yeah, I know. It drives us all crazy. And by the way, the people, the good people in this country are with us. It was in the paper today. Like, the number one concern most people have is extremism.

They fucking hate it. They fucking hate it. Well, and this is what worries me between you and I. Is that a pot leaf on that guitar? at the headstock? This is made of hemp. It is? Yeah, this was a gift.

Okay, you could totally tell I'm ADD, right? Because it's like squirrel, pot leaf. What do you? No, I was just saying, I'm really astute. It's like. Oh, that's amazing. It's an amazing thing. Can you really play it?

No. That sounds really bad. Well, it's not tuned. It's made out of hemp. Can you smoke it? The guitar? It would be an odd way to re-gift it, But, you know, yeah, I guess I, you can't smoke him.

No, you can't smoke him. You can wear it, though. No, what I was going to say is my kids come home with the most unbelievable questions, right? So I grew up in a really small town, three stoplights, cornfields, but we were close to the Bliveville Air Force Base. The what? Blyville, Arkansas Air Force Base, which was the biggest Air Force Base in America. And this is at the end of, this is like 72. I was 10 years old.

I think I'm older than you. How do you? No, I'm 68. Okay, I'm 62. But I was super young, like 36-year-old 62. Yes, you are. True that. I remember, I don't know if I came home from school and some kid had said,

yeah, the first place they'll bomb in America will be blival and will all be, you know, incinerated. Well, that's the only time in my childhood I remember ever being afraid of my parents saying, ridiculous, right? which probably wasn't, but my kids now come home with crazy questions. Well, they go to a Christian school, and they come home with bizarre questions that... They do? Yes, they come on with questions that, you know, their friends are coming into school with from hearing their parents, you know, and this religious support that, you know,

Trump has is very perplexing that people in the Christian world believe that he's chosen. Literally chosen by God. Yes. Who better? Meanwhile, because we have many gay people in our lives and in our family that we love. And they come home and they just, you know, they're funny things that are supposed to be funny jokes. about gender, because, you know, it's, these are the things that Trump's fighting against is,

it's, it's, it's confounding. And it's also as a parent, it's very, um, all I can say is when my kid was in eighth grade, we toured Arlington Cemetery, his eighth grade class. And I walked through and I was just thinking, man, these people that fought for what the country's supposed to stand for, for all people are rolling right now. I mean, I just, I'm scratching my head going,

we can all live here. I mean, first of all, I don't think Trump is specifically fighting gender stuff. I think he's has no, you know, compass at all. So if people he needs say something anti-gender that's inappropriate, like he probably won't slap them down for it. But I don't think, you know, he's a libertarian, a libertine from New York. That's not his thing.

I mean, you know, he just got out of a rape trial, for God's sake. He grabs pussies, you know, the Melania thing, whatever the fuck that is. And so I just don't think that's where people are, I'm not most worried about him there. He just came out with his abortion proposal, which is 16 weeks,

which is about what they have in Europe. Okay, I have not seen that. Yeah, sometimes it's even less than that. Oh, the Republicans are in, they know they're in real trouble because they finally caught the car, the dog caught the car, they got rid of abortion rights, and Americans fucking hate it. Men hate it, women hate it, everybody fucking hates kids, I understand, and they don't want kids, they don't want to have,

and they really, this is the Democrats' best issue by far. Their worst, Biden's age, that's their worst issue. Their best is this. People want someone to fight for now. They're going after the embryos. Did you see that in Alabama? Yeah, I've seen that. I mean, embryos, like just like the goo and the petri dish is an eight-year-old.

We should give, if embryos are alive, we should give them the right to vote. Well, we don't give eight-year-olds the right to vote, but we give them a lot of rights that they shouldn't have. Yes, we do. Were you a runaway bride? these three times that you didn't get married, that you were engaged? My first engagement, I was 21. I was engaged to a born-again Christian who had partied like it was the end of the world and then repented the next day.

And he broke it off, which was really good. And then my second one, I was engaged to a lovely person I'm still good friends with, but we actually, by the time we were getting ready to be married, we were so platonic that it seemed like. And that's why I never did it. Yeah. I mean, most people I know they're married are not that happy, so I'm like, but I'm also 62. I mean, I want to just be what people I like.

Exactly. You know, I want to laugh. Sex would be great, but, you know, only if it's something that makes me laugh. Right. I mean, it's trickier for women. You know, you got to have your, you know, men. Yeah, I want to get pregnant. Well, especially in a state where I can't get an abortion.

But also emotionally, psychologically. Men can, you know, I think have sex without, you know, something being all that serious easier. Yeah. And especially as you get older. I can have sex and not care about the person. Yeah, I guess you can. I'm kidding. I'm kidding.

I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm talking to rock and roll. I'm a rock star, okay? What do you think is the, like, the most rock and roll thing you ever did? Like, because. I wouldn't tell you. Really?

Yeah, no. now probably not. I mean, I've made out with a few people. Well, that's not even that. I'm talking about when I think of rock. Let me just put it to you like this bill. There is a book in here, but some people are going to have to die first. And it might be me, so I might write the book and then. Let me put to you. Like Rock Hudson, you know, just put it out.

Together with my publisher. Yeah. He'll take care of the deaths. I think my public is all over. She's like, you know, take this down. I think you're past the point where anyone will ever get mad at you unless you were. I have to do it quick, though, before I start forgetting all of it.

It does start to get. Your mind moves the furniture. I've known this because, well, yeah, because like I've known this in a way that's undeniable by reading over like notebooks or some diary of something I had And in my mind, I had one example, I had a memory of, like, this incident, which I would have sworn. I would have sold the house on it that it took place in Washington, D.C., and it took place in London. That was the incident, but when I read over, and somewhere along the way, over the years, my mind moved that from London. Do you take notes?

Like, did you? Well, at the time, I, this was, I mean, this happened 30 years ago. And it was at the time I was, like, take, I did keep, like, a journal, like, one, like every one, a few months I would write down. like what happened in the last three months. I don't know why I was doing it. I wish I would have done that. Yeah, no, I was a pretty good caveman. I've saved a lot of...

I mean, look, like, see that Diana Ross and the Supremes? Yeah. That's from an album, like when they put posters in albums. Like, I saved that. Okay, I have some of that stuff too. That was a poster in an album. Oh, my gosh. And you know, you just have them framed.

And they're like, that means so much more. They're in my mad magazine. Yes, oh, Mad Magazine. You know. Yes, yes. That was so off limits when I was a kid. That and what was the, what was the precursor, vanity fair? What was the...

Lampoon? No. I feel like Graydon Carter was part of... Spy. Spy magazine. Spire, yeah. Spy. Yeah.

Yeah, Spy was not like, Mad was like broad. Mad was broad. Lampoon. was the best. That lampoon was truly a brilliant satirical magazine. Yeah. And then Spy was Arch. It wasn't that laughout, loud funny. It was very... Much more sardonic and much more sort of literate,

not literati, but more intellectual. It was for mostly Upper East Side New Yorkers. You know, it was pretty rarefied there. But they did some great stuff. Yeah. And then, yeah, Vanity Fair. People ask me, like, what's the...

Like, what's a regret or whatever? There's one thing I wish I would have done was to write one sentence at least every day because journaling to me meant writing like with a project or a song and I just felt like work to me so I never journaled I mean on the odd occasion I would journal

but I would journal in the context of I've got a record coming out, you know, or record coming up I need to start thinking about what I'm going to write about but I would because I can't remember and my tour manager or my manager will bring up stuff and I'll go shit, I didn't even remember that, you know. Just crazy, weird, little things along the way.

Makes you mad. Now, I'm always fascinated by what the mind remembers, because it seems to be just absolutely no rhyme or reason. To what, like, you'll have whole swaths of time will have disappeared, but one little thing that happened one night and it wasn't even significant. Yeah, well, you'll remember. Yeah.

My mom has dementia right now, and that is the weirdest thing I've ever seen. I mean, I've known people, but not somebody as close to me as my mom is. Because I don't know you? Yeah, this is, I mean, it's just weird between Thanksgiving and Christmas. But what happens is, is she is stuck in a moment where she talks a ton, but it is, it relates to a specific. time that none of us really understand. She talks about the people in the group, and the group is going to be,

we think it has something to do maybe with her relationship to who she was in our church. But it's weird, but it always comes out in that context. And her language, her vocabulary, is really limited to that specific story. Now, I'm sure it's not that way with all people who have dementia. But the brain, it's terrifying.

Well, you know, Glenn Campbell. Yes. Before. Did you know, Gle? Oh, no. No, I mean, no, I did not. He started laughing. I'm like, oh, my God.

Were you guys like to, no. No, no. I mean, our paths were very far from crossing. He was on TV when I was a kid. Yeah, yeah. He had a TV show. Yeah, back in the day when they gave singers like variety hours and you had to do sketches.

No, I'm born in the wrong period. Like a Wichita line, men. And here comes Avonda Carlisle. Yes. Yeah, stuff like that. Welcome, Nipsey Russell. So he was already, you know, Rhinestone Cowboy. Yeah.

I loved those. That was when I was first listening to the radio. Galveston. Yeah. Wichita Lineman. Gentle on my mind. Oh, gentle on my mind. Wichitaeal, man, that was just one of the greatest of all time.

Gildenal on my mind, lyrically. Yeah. What a song. Yeah. I mean, that one is a killer, right? Poetry. That was Jim Webb. Jim Webb.

Yeah, he also did. A lot of great stuff. I got to meet him. Yeah, what? It was the same thing. Amazing. Oh, I thought you were going to say another guy who tried to. Just, you know, just try to pick me out.

No. Why? Not all. No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. No, just amazing. Like, I literally was like a student, like, oh, my God, I love you so much.

Wow. Yeah. But anyway, Glenn Campbell would be, like, he doesn't know where he is and who he's talking to, and then you get on stage, and the song, like a Ryan still. That was incredible. I know. And there's something, obviously, music again, the primal thing, when you hear the song, it triggers something in the brain that he was able to,

I mean, that's really amazing that somebody in that case could do a concert. Yes. And what's weird about it, too, is to have it be so rote and then to walk off and not know. Right. My mom is an amazing singer, and we grew up singing always. And last time I was home, I got out the great book, which is a Reader's Digest, great book, and played everything from Alfie to... And my mom...

My mom doesn't really stand so much. Why is she? She's sitting next to the piano, sitting next to me on the piano bench, and she's singing, just like she always did. And then she grabs the piano, and she stands up and starts really singing. And I'm just like, oh, there she is. That's my mom. She is.

Okay, but why Alfie? No, every song from that, like Burke Bacharach, right. It's such a great song. All the stuff that. Oh, Bert Backerack. I mean, please. Walk on by.

I mean, she was singing, like everything I played, she knew all the words. She even sang, Moon River, you know, just. Just like our old self. It's weird. Music just like. Who wrote Moon River? Mancini. Mancini.

Henry Mancini. Andy Williams, I think, that's even before my time. Yes, he did. But when people say, you know, three-cord, rock and roll, I always think, yeah, I guess there's some songs that are good with three chords. I'm not good. But give me Bert Bachrack, who always has. Any day of the week.

Any day now, you mean? Any day of the week. But the song, Any day now? Oh, any day now. No. Yes, you just sang it. Yeah. That's Bert.

Yes. Any day now? Yes. Covered by Elvis. Covered by Luther Vandros, any day now. Yes. Okay, as soon as I walk out of here, I'm going to go like, Shazam or Spotify, play me any day now.

At Spurt Backrack when it was early. I know. Great song. Unbelievable. But very, always very unpredictable. And again, I'm not a musician or anything like that, but I've seen the charts and it's not three chords. You want to hear something funny?

Or any chords you ever heard of. I did a gig where I got to sing, one less bell to answer. Hold me. One less egg to fry. We should take it on the road. One last man to look up after. I should be happy, but all I do is cry. That's the fifth dimension.

Yeah. Yes, it was. Yes, it was. They were so great. I got to sing that and he was playing a piano, Bert was. And he stopped and he's like, you don't want to backphrase. It's just, just sing the melody as it is. And I was just like, yes, sir.

I mean, he was very, not rude. Right. Just this is the way the arc of the melody is, was written that way and this is out works. And I got to sing with him after that, but I was like, he's Bert Backrak. Yeah, and he disturbs that. Yes. And, yeah. I literally was like, I will not backphrase.

I don't even know what that is. Yeah, you can't go, one less, bell to answer. Well, I think he made a good call. One less, eight to five. I think he made a good call, I got to say. I don't know. I was just trying to like Lady Gaga. I could see a whole video of that version if I could.

That is really. But, Crazy shit, man. What are some of the songs that, like, I know musicians all like, and of course you are a great coverer of songs. What are some of the other ones you cover? Oh, Solitaire?

Why do I have that? That's a great song. Yeah, the Carpenter's. Oh, it must have been on the... It was on the Carpenter's tribute. Who wrote that song? I don't know. I want to say Paul Williams.

You remember that guy? He wrote a lot of them. Yeah. He wrote a lot of them. I think he did write it. Maybe. He wrote a couple of those. He was very...

And I'll tell you another cover we did was that Eric Carmen song. Oh, I think I know what you mean. Eric Carmen. Yeah. I know. It's not... Yeah, okay. It's in there.

It's in there. This is what scares me. Do you know what I'm saying? No, no. I mean, honestly, it's what cares me. Discful. Yes, no, I know. I know.

There's no shame in not remembering Eric Carmen. Excuse me, Mr. Carmen. It was a great record. We loved it. That's why we remember it so fondly. But we don't, but we can't. Yeah, I can blame marijuana. What's your excuse?

No, I need to light it up, so maybe I'll remember something. No. But what were you going to say about it? Oh, you covered that. Covered it, and it was such a good song. What else did you cover? Are you covered? I want you back.

Why do I have that? Was that on a soundtrack or something? No, that was on 100 miles to Memphis. Oh, 100, right. Oh, really? Right, okay. Twice. 100 miles to Memphis.

When I had you two months. I can remember being a kid. Did you do that as a tribute? I just, I'm just, I did it when we were getting ready to cut something. And the band was like, oh, my gosh, you've got to put that on the record. I was like. Oh. And then I did it.

This guy, Kid Rock, I'm back to Kid Rock. Yeah. His version of Sugar Pie 100. Bunch? Do you know? Oh, really? No. You don't? On what? I don't know. His 21st century albums, like when he first came out, I was not into it. I mean, I was never into the brash personality, full on, although I love him. He was here also. It looks like everybody who knows. Yeah, I know. My entire, like, Rolla-Dex was here. And he's a real, like we both, okay, he is who he is. But just separate that from the music. If we can do it with Wagner, we can do it with Kid Rock.

Yeah. Okay. Fogner, Kid Rock. Yeah, it's just very similar. And I'm sure Kid Rock would take that as a compliment. He'd be like, but just the music. Like there's no, I love his records. There's no music that like takes me back to being 16.

That is his genius. Like he has so many songs where, you know, your girlfriend's on your shoulders and, you know, you're listening to ACDC or whatever the references are and the first kiss, you know, Like, he has so many songs that if you want to get back into that feeling good, like that kind of good, he is my boy. He does do that. When I worked with him on that song, picture, I came home at Christmas time, and I was telling my parents.

Been working with this guy named Bobby Richie, Kid Rock. He's such a nice person. He's got a great family a lot like ours. He's very close to his family. And I said he's really huge. You had this song called Cowboy. and yeah like oh we'll play us some of his stuff we'd love to hear some of it no you wouldn't so they they bought the CD and the very last song we get almost to the last song and I was like no we

that's good that's all you need to hear because the last song is called black pussy I believe is what it was right I'm sure it was and so I did a couple of gigs with them one of which was in St. Louis and my whole family came and they watched me play and then they came backstage and I was like okay well y'all can go now no we want to stay for some kid rock and I'm thinking hey dancing girls you know the whole that they enjoyed about four or five songs I've heard that his concerts are like Trump rallies I mean with the flags and everything you know look again not for me yeah don't get it can't ever convince you, Kid Rock, to come to my side. I know that would be futile and stupid.

So let's just not talk about what we don't agree with. Yeah, you just do what you do with all of your relatives. Exactly. That's what I'm always making that comparison. In your family, you would never ask someone to just not be. To take down their Confederate flag. Not be who they are. Yeah.

No, that's true. And the three most important words in any relationship are not, I love you. There, let it go. Yeah, I agree. with that. Well, maybe I oversawed that, but let it go is very important. Let it go or maybe forward, shut the fuck up. No, I'm kidding. Well, if you're at the place where you have to tell someone to shut the fuck up, you know, that's one good thing I feel about getting older that I learned along the way. It's like you don't waste time, you know, where you can tell where it's, you know.

Where it's going. Yeah. And what could possibly work and what couldn't, and there's no use throwing good love after bad. There's another title. I love it. You're telling you. Oh, I know you're a blue jay. You're gathering for your nest, culture vulture. You can have them all.

It would be an honor. It would be an honor, and I guess I should let you go. Oh, my God. So much fun. Thank you so much. Cheryl Crow, you're a rock star. We need to hang out when the cameras aren't on us, okay? Because we have many things to talk about.

And yet it would be no different, would it? Actually, no, it would not be different. That's what I'm trying to do with this show. Few more F bombs, but I'll do it with you. For me, maybe a little weed. If I'm not singing, you know, that's the pain, you know. That's it. So, anyway, that was fun.

Thanks for having me. Pleasure. You're a minch.