Club Random with Bill Maher - Steven Van Zandt | Club Random with Bill Maher

Episode Date: May 20, 2024

Bill Maher and Steven Van Zandt on their mutual efforts to stay in shape, Steven’s authentic style, the evolution from tour buses to planes, the changes in Las Vegas from the mob era to corporate, the commercialization of everything, how Steven is a "law and order liberal," police reform, homelessness, and the balance between liberal and woke ideologies, how this conversation is NOT about Bruce Springsteen, accurately depicting stand-up and music in movies, Steven’s role in "The Sopranos," climate change, and Elon and the feasibility of Mars as a habitat.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

My new book, What This Comedian Said Will Shock You, is out in two days, May 21st. He met with me and I said to him straight up, I said, listen, if this is gonna be about Bruce, you know, I understand that, okay? But let's stop this right now. Who's gonna know about this stuff? You think they're not gonna be playing board

to run in a hundred years? Oh, please. I hope you're right. Since, I'm not sure, I have no sense of time. Well since I saw you, was it more than a year ago? Maybe it was. Breakfast at the Polo Lounge? When we had breakfast, we had eggs at one in the afternoon. More than a year ago, you think?

Oh yes, I would say three. Oh. Well okay. Then yes. I mean say three. Oh. Well, okay. Then yes. I mean Soulfire was just out. Oh, all right, all right. What year was that? That's 2017.

No, no, no, no, it was after that. Summer of Sorcery was 2019, maybe it was my second album. I do, it's funny what your mind remembers. I remember, well, probably because I play it all the time. It's a great album, Soulfire. Oh, thank you. Soulfire, I mean, the title track is great. What's that ballad you sing?

The City, no. Oh, City Weeps At Night. Weeps Tonight. That's a great, uh. Real doo-wop. You have real chops. No, I swear it's like singing. I don't think people know that. I mean, that is a song that you'd never

hear in the E Street band. You know, it's almost doo-wop, right? It is doo-wop. It is doo-wop. It's really pretty authentic doo-wop. It's very authentic. It's awesome. I love that genre, which is really a lost genre, you know.

Billy Joel did, yes, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Big hits. you know, big hits. Uptown Girl, and then there was another one that was of course deliberately in that style. Yeah, he's a big Four Seasons fan. Right, as am I, I opened for them. Really? Yes. When I was 26, I did one Tonight Show or something,

and I opened for Diana Ross, and then in Las Vegas, and then I opened for Frankie Valli on the tour. Oh no, no, I'm sorry. This was right before my first Tonight Show. I did the tour, I went right to the, this was 1982, it was their 20th anniversary tour. I was even on the tour bus, that was horrible. Um, it's a long time since you've been on a tour bus.

It's what we go through in the rock and roll world, right? What? I mean, the old days. The old days. Tour bus was a step up. Right. You know, from the station wagons and uh. On the van, right? Yeah, yeah. Tour bus, from the station wagons. Oh, the van, right.

Yeah, yeah. Tour bus, you were kinda starting to make it. You know? Right. You even have a, you have a bus. You know? You're right, everything's relative.

Some guys don't have a bus. No. But now it's a plane, which is great. Yeah. And I know you're a big revolutionary, but I hope you don't ever feel guilty. All the environment stuff? Any of it. Having money is not a crime.

Oh, no, no, no. I got no problem with that. You know? Well, good, because... Because I'm broke most of the time. Really? What are you talking about? Why are you broke?

Well, I got a big overhead. You got a big nut? Yeah, big. Big nut? I got, you know... What a big overhead. You got a big nut? Yeah, big. Big nut? I got, you know. What's your nut? What's in your nut?

Well, I got a record company that, you know. Loses money? Barely breaks even. My entire radio network loses money. The GarageBand one? Yeah. Oh, so good. Yeah, no, that's what I mean.

Well, you know, I mean, this is, the thing I feel like that is most in your DNA is one, integrity. You do what you like, what you want, what you think is important. And two, it never aligns with what the public may think. You're so right, you are so right. It's like, you know.

And you can't worry about it, you know, because I feel like I'm doing good work, you know, and that's what counts, you know. And you're not exactly'm doing good work, you know, and that's what counts. You know? And you're not exactly starving. No, no, no, no, no, no. I don't mean to be a whining rock star, God forbid. You're not whining at all.

I'm insisting that you... No, no, but I'm just like, me and money just don't get along too well. You know what I mean? I just don't really. Really? I'm not an entrepreneurial guy, you know. You got that shirt. I can't.

I mean, that thing doesn't look cheap at all. Where'd you get that shirt? I don't know. What do you know? That's how rich you are, but you don't know. There was a time in my life, if you went through my closet and where'd you get that? I could tell you exactly where I got that.

Because I had four shirts. My first sport jacket that I bought for doing standup cost $5. $5. And then I had it tailored, which cost 20. The tailoring cost four times what the jacket was. But I had my $25 jacket. I still have it.

So you opened for the Four Seasons. That's a mean one. I did too. What? With the Dovels. You opened for the Four Seasons? Yeah, I had. We have that in common? Yes. Holy crow. Yes, we. What? With the Dovels. You opened for the Four Seasons? Yeah, I had. We have that in common? Yes. Holy crow.

Yes. What year? 1973. Wow. I joined a group called the Dovels, which had a couple of big hits in the early 60s. The Dovels. Terrific.

That was before my time. Oh yeah, yeah. The Dovels. Yeah, they had You Can't Sit Down and Bristol Stomp, terrific record. You Can't Sit Down, and Bristol Snom's terrific record. You Can't Sit Down. What was that about, a colonoscopy? What was that?

What, You Can't Sit Down? Hemorrhoids. It's a dance thing, a dance thing. Oh, I see. I see. That's so funny, at my age, I hear the page, You Can't Sit Down, I think hemorrhoids, not that I have hemorrhoids,

but I know people who do and travel with a pillow. But of course, when you're 16, you're thinking you can't sit down, you gotta get up and dance, okay. Not a bad idea for a commercial, however. Right. So there you go. Yeah, you make a fortune. But anyway, yeah, I just by some chance

ended up in the backup band for the Dovels. And I was so glad I got to Vegas in 73. It was like the last year the mob was there. So I got a chance to see the old Vegas before the new Disneyland Vegas. And it was really different. It was really different. I'm glad I got a chance to see it.

Now when you say last year of mob rule, it's not like a contract ran out, but I know what you mean. There was an era, Last year of mob rule, it's not like a contract ran out, but I know what you mean. There was an era, and a lot of people say that era was better. When the... No doubt about it. I'm sure that's not true if you were buried

in a shallow grave in the desert. You know, recently, this is true. This was in the paper like two years ago when we had a horrible drought. You know that out here. We've had it forever. Luckily, we've had rain recently. But, and Lake Mead, like, got to the lowest level ever. So, like, where there had been water forever.

And they found, like, tons of bodies, pinky rings. Like, just a skeleton with a pinky ring. Oh, man. Yeah. I mean, there was a lot of shit down there. But I agree, it probably was better when it was more of a rat-packy town. That's what it's meant. It's an adult playground. Yeah, but here's the thing.

First of all, it was only like seven or eight casinos and nothing in between, so we played the Flamingo. Just the strip. When they played the Flamingo. Just the strip. When they said the strip, I remember, even when I was there in 82, it was just one road. Every hotel on either side of one road. That's not Vegas now.

But a long way from each other. We played the Flamingo, and Caesars was like three football fields away. It was at the end of the block. And nothing in between. You know what I mean? Nothing in between? No. Land, I'm telling you. You know, and nothing in between. You know what I mean? Nothing in between? No. No.

Land, I'm telling you. Really? Yes, there was nothing, there was literally seven or eight casinos on the entire strip. Other than downtown. And Riviera. The sands. And Desert Inn, the sands.

Desert Inn, the dunes. Dunes, right, the Flamingo maybe, the original. Yeah, the original was original. It's probably still. Which I was thrilled because. Right, Caesar's Palace is probably the end of the block. You're right. Well, yeah, it was diagonal. There was no Luxor. There was no. Right, Caesar's Palace is probably the end of the block, you're right. Well, yeah, it was diagonal.

There was no Luxor, there was no. No, no, but here's the thing. The whole intention of the town was to make money from gambling and nothing but gambling, right? So, you know, these buffets, you know, were like 279 lobster and steak, you know. The rooms were, you rooms were $29. You know what I mean?

You know, the lounge was $6 and Frank Sinatra could walk in, you know, $6. So, and here's the mob probably. The lounge, you mean, not the main? Not the main room, but there was a main room and then there was a lounge. To me, that's what Vegas is missing the most currently is there's no lounge acts.

Yeah, that changed, yeah. Which is a shame because that's where you saw Don Rickles. Yeah, at first. Or you could see acts who were coming up or on their way down. Yeah. And it happened at like 11 at night, midnight, two in the morning.

Oh yeah. It's a late town. Like if you wanna do something after, And it happened at like 11 at night, midnight, two in the morning. It's a late town. Like if you wanna do something after, like when I work there, I'm playing at the same time all the other shows are. When I'm done, everything's done. And then people go to discos, I don't go to a disco. Yeah, yeah.

So there you are, they're making nothing but money from the gambling. The mob's probably grabbing a third off the top, right? And everybody still got rich. And everybody got rich with no money from entertainment, food, or rooms, right? With the mob taking a third off the top and everybody still got rich.

I think they had entertainment pretty much from the beginning. Yeah, but it was a lost leader, whatever they call it. They lost money. It may still be a lost leader, whatever they call it. They lost money. It probably is, it may still be a loss leader. It was always meant to be. Yeah, now they make money from everything.

They charge you for the fucking Wi-Fi now. I mean, you know. Right. They don't leave a dollar on the fucking table. Oh no, and they don't know how to treat people anymore. Oh no. I mean, that's. Not really.

Yeah. Unless you're a whale, you know, unless you're a big gator. Right. Yeah. But even the entertainment, I mean, they've, yeah. Unless you're a whale, unless you're a big gamma. Right. Yeah. But even the entertainment, I mean, they've been very nice to me. I was at the Mirage for a long time,

now I'm at the MGM Grand. They're great, I mean, they're very nice people. It's just that the way the hotel business is, you just can't, you know, I mean, I blame the millennials. That's just true, I'm sorry, but I do. I mean, like, I have this thing, long-running thing, and I guess if you want to say that this makes me a diva, okay, but you're wrong, it's not.

All I want in my room is a fan. Just one person who's watched all my shows. No, no, an electric fan. I just want an electric fan, because it never gets cold enough in the room. Right? Do you like it cold when you sleep? In the hotel room?

Not too cold, but yeah, I know what you mean. I like it cold. Get under the cover, okay. So, and also for noise, you know, white noise, I like the sound of a fan, but I just, it helps me sleep, it's harder for me to sleep on the road. So, like, okay, you call up,

can you put an electric fan on the road? If you can't, just say no. But these are five-star hotels. Of course we can. Of course, you know, for Mr. Mar, whatever. What else can we, you know, it's like nothing. Just a fan, water. Again, I don't think this makes me a giant diva.

And again, if you can't do it, just say so. But they say so, and then you get there. It just seems impossible for a simple message to be transferred for more than one or two people. You know? And I feel like this has great repercussions for our country in general. Because if they can't get a fan in my room,

I can kinda see why they can't close the border if they want to. Just, you know, whatever it is. Direct correlation here. I do, I just think people just can't fucking do anything anymore. Well, yeah, I think you're right. I mean, part of the problem, of course,

is just they got bigger and bigger and bigger, right? You know, until now there's three, four thousand rooms, whatever they are. That's it, of course. You know they got bigger and bigger and bigger, right? You know, until now there's three, 4,000 rooms, whatever they are. That's it, of course. So what are you gonna do with that? Plus, since COVID, nobody wants to work. So they're having trouble finding workers. All the hotels that we tour

always had 24-hour room service, not anymore. They can't find people to work. So partly that, partly the bigness, and partly the corporatization of everything. Where nobody gives a shit. One more thing that Frank Sinatra, I really feel had going for him that got him great service.

The threat of violence. And I feel that what's missing in R, we don't have enough threat of violence so that they're like, oh, the fan? We put three fans in that room. No, they know I'm not gonna do anything to them. So it was better when Vegas read it. That's all I'm saying.

A little threat of violence is not the worst thing in the world when you're running a government. You're not wrong. I mean, why do we have police? I mean, what is that? A military threat of violence. Yeah, I get you. Like if you get out of line too much,

we allow a monopoly on violence. You know, you're allowed, you know, there are people who go into the army because they're like, yeah, I'm allowed to shoot somebody. Yeah, yeah. And cops, I mean, you know, some of them certainly enjoy. Well, authority, shall we say, too much. Sometimes, sometimes.

Joy, authority. Keep in mind, I hold the biggest police fundraiser in the country. I am a big supporter of the country. I know you are. And a critic, and they deserve it. And I am an independent, law and order liberal, which, you know, that's how I describe myself.

That's great. And now in New York, we have the opposite problem going on with the police have their hands tied behind their backs and they can't arrest anybody. And they're going crazy. We have five people, I think, throwing on the subway tracks in the past week or two. Two people in my neighborhood punching women in the face. The no bail thing was big for a minute.

You know, you can punch a cop in the face and be back on the street the next day. It is amazing, the recidivism. The number, I mean, I read these stats many times. Like, a third of all the, like smash and grab type of stuff, or like petty robberies, are by the same 600 people who just keep being put back out there to do it.

Some of them have done it dozens and dozens, I think maybe even 100 times. Insane. And this law that you can steal anything under $1,000 and it's okay, who comes up with these fucking things? I'm so glad you're saying this, because I feel like I'm always in this position where I'm so glad you're saying this, because I feel like I'm always in this position where I'm having to explain to people,

okay, I'm still the liberal I always was, but this kind of woke shit, if I can use that word, this is not liberalism. Liberalism was never about, yeah, let's legalize crime. Yeah, I mean, it began with the privatization of prisons, which is the most insane concept ever. And that's more of a right-wing thing. You know, I mean, it's insane. That's a corporate thing.

That's agreed. Corporations should take over as much as they possibly can. That's definitely a right-wing thing. I mean, you know, hey, let's make crime profitable. What a concept that is, right? So, I mean, there's that going on on the other side. And look, you're totally right though. I mean, look, up top, at the higher echelons,

it's mostly a Republican problem, and locally it's a Democratic problem, okay? Certainly in my neighborhood. So you still live in the old neighborhood? I'm in the village, in Grange Village. Right. You know, and it was the best neighborhood in New York. It was the best neighborhood in New York. Because?

And now it's terrible. It was just totally peaceful and hippies and artist type people. Bohemian. Bohemian, you know, and safe. You know, I live a half a block from Washington Square Park. Right. Living near a park used to be beachfront property.

Now, they're homeless encampments. And there's nobody solving these problems. Again, if I may, the difference between liberal and woke, liberal was in the name of compassion for God's sakes, let's get these people off the street. Woke, that's not their view. Their view is homeless people are like an endangered species that needs to be protected in its natural environment.

That's insane, frankly. Living their best life under a bridge. That's it. It is insane, but again, that's the argument. You see why I almost have gray hair now. Because I'm always having to make this argument and it's people, you know, I've heard people come up to me and say, well, I don't like it when you make fun

of the woke, I'm woke. I'm like, no, you're a liberal. Woke migrated to this other place that I'm making fun of for good reason. Because it desperately needs to be made fun of. But the word does trigger people, that word woke. It means different things, I guess, to different people. Exactly, people don't.

Because at first it was kind of a good thing, right? At first it was a great thing. Consciousness. Alert to injustice. Right, right, a consciousness about. One would know better than the man who ended apartheid. No, people don you know. Well, I would know better than the man who ended apartheid. No, people don't know. I told, when you were on Real Time,

I think you were like surprised at the direction I went with that interview. But I really wanted to highlight that part of your life, the least financially rewarding part. Well, my bandmates bought mansions that tour. No, but it is, what I was saying then, I will reiterate, it's true, like musicians in my estimation,

I've said this here before, I'm sure, I think they overestimate their place in changing the world. They like to pat themselves on the back and say, oh, we changed, music, bass, art, no art really can change the world. One of the few and say, oh, we changed, music, bass, art, no art really can change the world. One of the few exceptions is, I really feel like what you're marshaling those people for,

it was at the right time for apartheid to fall, but peaceful revolutions are rare, and South Africa had one. I mean, they went from an apartheid country to a, and then some of that credit goes to that, was it the clerk or whoever, you know, he was the Gorbachev of South Africa. But he was forced into it.

Of course he was, of course he was. But still, to manage it without a lot of bloodshed. Well, that was Mandela's, you know, genius of coming out and saying, let's be cool. It had to be Mandela. That could have been a massacre. It could have been. Like no one would have believed, okay?

But he came out and was like, let's be cool. And again, that's like a liberal thing to do, not a woke thing. Like it wasn't pure. Purity would have been, no, we must kill the people who were wrong. Yes, they were wrong and history's always wrong at people or schmucks But that was such like for practical reasons. I always feel like liberals are more practical like what can practically get done and

Yeah, we should have also punished a lot of the 2008 Wall Street assholes who crashed the market But we didn't why because it would have actually made it worse 2008 Wall Street assholes who crashed the market. But we didn't, why? Because it would have actually made it worse. So Obama was not pure, he didn't, I've heard that criticism a lot, you know, Obama, he sold us out, he didn't put anybody in jail. Yeah, because that would have fucking

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Remember to head to zbiotics.com slash random and use the code random at checkout for 15% off. Thank you Zbiotics for sponsoring this episode. Well, I'm so happy to find out that you're not as far left as I thought. No, depending on the issue, this issue by issue, I've been writing a political book now for 20 years. I don't know if I'll ever finish it. Really?

Oh. And I wanted it to come out. Speaking of which. I have a book coming. I just wanted to give you a head shot of me, really. Although then I remembered I gave you one for Christmas. I have a book, What This Comedian Said Will Shock You. It looks like a clickbait, it's funny.

Anyway, it comes out in May. I signed it to you. It's an advanced copy. I think you'll be amused. It has been LOL tested because these are mostly the editorials that I did on real time at the end of the show. Ah, okay.

Collected, edited, you know, put them in a set. Great stuff. Only the best stuff, you know. It's amazing, I had 20 years to work with to pull the best stuff. So I think you'll be laughing on every page. I'm confident now that you'll agree with. There's no cameras here, it's just us.

Thank you. I should sign mine to you. Please do. Did I do that? Yeah, you did it, but you can do it again. No, okay. Well first of all, let me just say, and I've said this before,

you were a great writer right from the start. I read your first book, I think it was your first book, True Story, I think it was called. Yeah, that was a novel, wow. I'm telling you, it was a fantastic book. I read it when it came out. I think before I even, I'm not even sure I'd seen your standup by then or not, but.

And why, I think that's a movie. Why wasn't that ever a movie? It was, we tried to, because I, you know why? Because that's just not my area of my forte. I've learned as the years go by certain lessons, and one is you're not really given that many multiple great things you're good really given that many multiple great things you're good at.

So just be happy with the one or two you have. If you have two, that's a lot. So I just don't think that getting something made into a movie, getting the script right, all the stuff that goes in, that's just not my forte. And I think the reason why is my mind works this way. Like this book is great because it's editorials I wrote, which is like me saying one thing,

driving toward a point. A script is the opposite. A script is like, I have to think about how 12 different characters think. It's not really, you know. But you wouldn't have to do it necessarily. In the book it worked because I can do it as a novelist where you can explain everything at length

and it was based on all these guys I started with. It's about my early years in stand-up. So, you know, it was not hard to make composite characters. I mean, a lot of the dialogue is things we actually said to each other. Fuck the comics. I believe that. So, but in general, that's just not my field.

So that's why it never got made. But it would have been a great movie. But you don't have to make the movie. Somebody buys the rights and you approve the script? I never got a script that I liked enough. And it's so funny, it's kind of full circle because one of the reasons I wrote the book was because I was so frustrated

at watching how stand-up was portrayed. Like it's so hard to get it right. When you try to portray it, like when someone plays a comic in a movie, and you can see that they just told the extras who are the audience, laugh at this, but it never reads like, oh, that really wouldn't get a laugh.

Did you go for Mrs. Maisel at that show? I've never seen that one because I was afraid that I would watch it and think just that. It's pretty good, man. I think. Oh, I've heard it's great. I mean, you know, you would know better. But do they, but does it show her doing standup?

Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah, and. And it looks like real standup. It's to my eyes, yeah. I mean, you would know better. It might be that. It might be as a comedian, I'm especially attuned to it

so it's like fingernails on a blackboard. Just the way if you... You see a musician in a movie, it's never good. You're absolutely right. It's always funny. No matter how they try, it's pretty hard to pull that off. But Lenny Bruce was in it for a while, that was exciting. He's a cameo character, which is great to see him.

And he was good, the guy who played Lenny Bruce. Really? Yes. Yeah, pretty good. I love it when people play famous people. I like impressions like that. Even if it's not an impression, just I thought Shia LaBeouf was great as McEnroe. Did you ever see that movie?

Oh, I didn't see that. The Borg and McEnroe. Oh yeah, they made a movie about their rivalry. And Shia LaBeouf was perfect to play John at that time of his life. Must be kidding. You cannot be serious. And you know what, I love him.

He's become such a great friend. He's such a great guy. And his wife, Patty. I know, I love him. But he is still him. My friend, there was a party right here in this room. My friend who was a high school tennis player, he goes up to John, he was so nervous to meet him.

I was like, go ahead, just say hello. Look at this room, there's 12 people here. And he says, hey, I just wanna say hi, I'm such a big fan. And I was a tennis player in high school and I of course wasn't on your level. And John stops me and goes, of course you weren't on my level. I was number one in the world. I love it when people get caught in the act

of being themselves. I don't feel like they ever really captured you. I saw your 60 minutes. Congratulations, that's a big thing to get a 60 minutes profile. I had one in 1997 when the show was moving to ABC. Yeah. Yeah, cool.

I wouldn't, I'd be afraid to look at it now. 1997, oh my God. What the fuck was I thinking and how did my hair look? And. Well, I was lucky because they did a good job and you never know how those are gonna go. And they did an hour in Rome and an hour in New York and got it down to like 13 minutes, yeah.

It's amazing. Maybe it's just because I love you so much, but it always just bothers me that they put you, it always has to be something with Bruce Springsteen. Who's great, I know he's your boyfriend, and I mean, I'm a fan, a huge fan, but I just feel like that Soulfire record, I don't, that to me is as good as any Bruce Springsteen record,

and I'm, yeah. Thank you, man, thank you. No, but I have to be conscious of it, you know that. That to me is as good as any Bruce Springsteen record. Thank you, man, thank you. But I have to be conscious of it, you know that. Because it's the same kind of sound. Obviously you're incremental to that, or instrumental or something to that sound. Yeah, and we have the same influences and all that, and grew up in the same neighborhood.

But it's something I gotta be conscious of my whole life. And I said to them when they called me, because I was surprised they called me. And I was like, first of all, I wanna meet with the boss. Not some correspondent, so very rare. The boss, Bruce Springsteen? No, the boss of 60 Minutes. You can see why I'd say that. That's his common moniker, you picked.

So I found out the guy very rarely meets with anybody, but he met with me and I said to him straight up, I said listen, if this is gonna be about Bruce, I understand that, okay? But let's stop this right now. Because, you know? All right? And he said, no, no, we don't want Bruce to be in it.

Okay? Or nothing to do with him, right? So I gave him one more test. I said, you know, all right, now if you're really serious, you'll come to Rome, okay? Because we're playing Rome, and it's a really cool audience. I want you to, you know, you can take a shot

at the audience, you know. But, you know, no East Street stuff. And they come to Rome, okay? So now, like, you know, the chorus. If you're a 60 Minutes producer, you want a trip to Rome. It's like, that's what you're like, gonna fight for the budget. It's so important we do this story.

Because Stevie Van Zandt, I mean, you know, like, this is a gruesome story. It's the war in Syria and this. We've gotta go to Rome. Send the other guy to Syria. I'm going, yeah, I gotta be on the Stevie Van Zandt story. It's too important. So, so now they're like, you they're passing every test, right?

So now I'm thinking to myself, now it's right to the end of the interview and the end of this whole filming. And I started thinking to myself, geez, I don't want Bruce thinking I don't want him in a piece. You know what I mean? I'm starting to feel a little.

It's almost damned if you do. Because they were totally holding up their end of the bargain. Nothing to approve, you know. I said, you know what, I'm gonna have him come in at the end. Because I want him to be in it. He's my best friend, you know. I don't want him thinking I don't want him in the piece.

So I had him come in there at the end there, and it was wonderful. It was a nice little one minute bit, but most of it was legitimately about my life. Well, I mean, they asked you about the, you know, you played the consigniari on The Sopranos, and it's, you know. Well, you know, that's all right, that's all right.

Well, it kind of was true. There are just some things they can't resist in the media. I remember almost the first piece I did, I must have been living out here, must have been 1993, my old house, and they shot me, suddenly they do it in your house, around your house, so it wasn't a mansion or anything, but it had a pool in the back.

So they shot me in the pool. They wanted to, I don't know what the fuck, and of course, of course, the name of the article was In Too Deep. And I just knew that if I had been on a tree, which they might have made me do that too, the name of the article would have been Out On A Limb. And then they'll fit the article to the picture.

Really, was I in too deep? They've been kind to you, the media, pretty much. Oh, very. Yeah, I think so. I mean, you have a great reputation. I've never gotten a bad review on any record I've ever done. I mean, it's amazing, really.

Also, it's kinda cooler to be not the front guy. Keith Richards, a lot of people would, you know. Easier, it's easier. Well, it's also like, did you see, oh, it's my favorite of his movies and I love all his movies, but did you see Once Upon a Time in Hollywood? Oh yeah.

Isn't that awesome? Awesome. Especially for people our age who remember TV in that era, how funny it is with all the references to the TV. We grew up as kids, remember the FBI, the show, and also Screen Gems. It's a Screen Gem. The best moment was Leo doing Hula Baloo. Hula Baloo, exactly.

But my point is, in that movie, Leo is the front man. He's the actor. Right. Right, he's the star. And he was terrific. And he was terrific, but I'm saying the character he was playing. And he was terrific, but I'm saying the character he was playing. And Brad Pitt plays the stuntman.

And he's kind of gopher, right? Best friend, take one for the team guy, you get shot. Fix the antenna on the roof. Fix the antenna on the roof, drive me around. But because he is so confident in how cool he is, I mean it's Brad Pitt, the perfect casting for this, it's like he's cooler. Dean Martin with Frank Sinatra.

You know, it depends on your taste, but. I'm with you, I'm with you. You know, I feel like a lot of people are in that camp that I'm in, like that guy is kind of cooler because he doesn't need the spotlight. Yeah, yeah. That speaks of a greater confidence.

It's, yeah. I guess I'll never get Bruce Springsteen on this show now. No, it's true. It's true to some extent. You have to, people become that biggest star. He's handled it beautifully. Yeah, I mean it's amazing. I don't envy that kind of obligation.

No, but some people handle it better than others. I mean to still be as cool as he is without selling out, that's at that age. without selling out. Yeah, I mean. That's, at that age. And the quality of his work at this age is astounding. The latest album is fantastic. It was kind of taken for granted, a letter to you.

But when you read those lyrics, I mean, come on. Incredible, incredible at this age. And I also loved the one he did right around the same time. It was all covered. Oh yeah, the soul tribute. Yeah, terrific, terrific. I mean, we played, where were we? San Francisco the other day.

Flies home to New Jersey to sit in with some country guy, Luke Bryan, you know. Just because he likes him, and then flew back to San Francisco for the second show. I mean, you know what I mean? You don't have to do that. You know, I mean. Well, did you see the documentary on We Are the World? Yeah.

Okay. I mean, I remember when the song came out, like it was yesterday, even though it was 1985. I was doing a little sitcom called Sarah on NBC with Gina Davis, Bronson Pinchot, and Alfie Witter. We were four lawyers in San Francisco, and I remember being in the makeup room as we were all getting dolled up for the show,

and it had just come out and someone had it on their boombox. We all just listened and Mark Hudson was also on the show. He was a musician and he was like calling out who all the people were. Oh, there's Billy Joel and there's Bob Dylan and I mean everybody was on that. Yeah, me.

And Bruce kind of had the lead. He had more lines than anybody. He kind of was the. Oh yeah? Yeah, yeah, oh yeah. And he was very raspy, you know. Which worked for the record because it was, you know, and it's great in the documentary that moment

where Quincy Jones, they're driving home at eight in the morning, and he says to his friend in the car, boy, the white guys really brung it. I thought, what a fuckin' tribute from Quincy Jones. And he did bring it, but in the documentary they showed, he was in Buffalo the night before, flew all the way to California, hoarse after the show, and showed up and just went, I think,

right into the studio. I love it. I love the documentary. And they're completely wasted and tired. And they're doing the whole thing in one night. It's like five in the morning, and Stevie Wonder decides, we should have a verse in Swahili. Yes. Ha ha ha.

Yes. This was the highlight of the documentary. Was it Waylon Jennings? Yes. Just walks right out. This redneck don't do no Swahili. He says, yeah. Ha ha ha.

I mean, I never heard that story. I mean, no one had ever said it. I'm like, oh, my God, that's worth the price of admission. It really is. You know? How do you feel about that? Do you feel he was justified in that to just say,

I'm not comfortable. Oh, really, Janis? Yes, I was told this was going to be a, you know. I mean, no, it's like. I mean, you know, probably looking back on it, he probably regrets it, you know, he probably says, well, they didn't end up doing this in Swahili after all, so it probably

would have been fine, but you know, I don't know. You can see both points of view. I'm not that familiar with Mr. Jennings' work, but I don't feel like when I listen to the song, and I still love it, I don't feel like You can see both points of view. I'm not that familiar with Mr. Jennings' work, but I don't feel like when I listen to the song, and I still love it, I don't feel like I miss Waylon Jennings. Well, that's the thing, you know.

Like, you know what? This song would be over the top to me if it had a little Waylon Jennings, because I feel like Willie Nelson covers, I love his, my burning stone to bread, or whatever the line is. And... Yeah, no, the Outlaws, I mean,

I started a whole radio station based on those guys, you know, on Serious Adelaide. The Outlaw, what do they call the Outlaws? Oh, okay, sure, yeah. Waylon and Chris Christopherson and Johnny Cash and you know. Cause country radio wasn't playing them anymore. What is liquid death? Well, it may look like a beer or some crazy energy drink, but it's not. Liquid death is actually a healthy beverage brand that makes mountain spring water,

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You had quit the band? Yeah, yeah. I just got obsessed with politics and... That's the year, right around there, right? Yes, right around that time, I'm in South Africa doing the research, I went twice. And, right around that time I'm in South Africa doing the research, I went twice. And what year did it part that end, 89?

Yeah, well he, What year did they, Oh geez, I should know that, shouldn't I? Governments, well you said at the beginning you were bad at times. Yeah, he gets out of jail around 89, 90, and then I think they had the election like 99. Something like that.

Yeah. What do you think of what's going on there now? I mean. It's not good. Not good. No. Because. Well, I think there's still corruption going on.

I think it's. So hard to fight that in countries. Yeah, I mean really it's tough. I mean, you know. Like look at Haiti. Oh man. I mean. It, it's tough. I mean, you know. Like, look at Haiti. Oh, man. I mean. It's a shame.

Why do you think a place like that just never, like, people ask this a lot now. Like, it shares an island with the Dominican Republic. Right. The island of Hispaniola. Yeah. Why is one place so markedly different than the other? And you know what the Dominican Republic is doing now? They're building a wall.

Sound familiar? And they're gonna make Mexico pay for it. No, that part I made up. They are building a wall. Why one half, what's? I don't know, I was like... Puzzle. You know, the country needs to be reimagined.

I mean, they were the first ones to declare independence. They were extremely influential and ahead of their time in a lot of ways. The first ones to get rid of slavery in the Western hemisphere, right? Wasn't that the... Yeah, some amazing accomplishment. The Toussaint revolution. Yeah. the first ones to get rid of slavery in the Western hemisphere, right? Wasn't that the Tucson Revolution? Yeah, and you know, one bad thing after the other,

but I said to everybody, Sean Penn and everybody else was down there trying to help. I said like, let's reimagine this place, you know? Have the Amazon and Apple go down there, and you're like, you know what I mean? Put their companies down there or something like that where you just have a workforce and can reimagine the neighborhoods here

because there's no other way to save this and bring it back. It just never stops. Well, it's gangs, isn't it? The gangs are too powerful. But all through now, it's all through Latin America, it seems like. Were you ever in a gang?

Were you ever in a gang? Oh, no, no, no. Not a crime gang. A band is kind of a gang. Yeah, well, that was the thing. What? That was the attraction for me. I wasn't interested in show business.

I wasn't interested in the single person in the spotlight. Not at all. It was until the Beatles came. You're Brad Pitt. What? You're Dean Martin. Yeah. So when the Beatles came.

Bud Abbott. Oh yeah. Yeah. So when the Beatles came... What happened? Yeah. Yeah. The Beatles came and we had never seen bands before, you know?

You know, there were no bands in America, you know? If you went to your high school dance, it was an instrumental group. You know? It might, yeah. Yeah, so you didn't see people singing and playing. Like the Ventures? Yeah. Big. Big, you know? What is the Ventures? Why do I know them? They, is it Hawaii Five-O? Walk Don't Run, Hawaii Five-O?

They were, they were. Da da da da da da. Those days, there were a lot of instrumental hits on the charts. I always hated instrumentals on the radio. No, I actually liked that song. I mean, it was good, but like, as a kid, you want singing.

Yeah. You just do. Of course, of course. I was always, remember Time Is Tight? Yeah, Booker T and the MGs. Booker T and the MGs. That's your kinda. Oh yeah, they were great. They were the house band, you know, for a lot of the.

That's your jam. Yeah. Right? Yeah, they were the house band for Sam and Dave. Is that right? So many others, yeah. Otis Redding. Oh, yeah.

That's why they never learned to sing. Yeah. They didn't need to sing. Get a singer. What does it cost? Nothing. Right? You make money, then he... But anyway, but the bands come, and suddenly there's four guys or five guys, you know,

and they were like a gang. They were like a posse, a team, you know, and they spoke, it just communicated an entirely different thing to me. And I wanted to be part of that, I wanted to be part of something, you know, that we're all heading towards the same goal, you know. And that's when I wanted to be in a band, that's when I started playing.

But up until then. It's a camaraderie. Yeah. You know, all of us who have no musical talent, and I speak for multitudes, even though many think they do, I at least know I don't. But I think we all crave that in a way,

again, not just the music, but that feeling that you're doing something with four or five or 20 or 80 other people that's so in synchronicity. It has to be. And when it is, you probably feel a connection to them. It's very hard for other people to... True, true.

No, I mean, it's satisfying. It has to be very satisfying. You're part of a team. It's a relationship that's working. It has to be very satisfying. Because you're part of a team. It's a relationship that's working. Yeah, not easy. And relationships can, like band relationships, can work on stage musically when they're working horribly in every other way.

I mean, what band is ever not hating each other? Ever! It's true. You could almost not, you could certainly easier make a list of bands who didn't. No, you're so right. It's just the nature of the beast, obviously. And luckily, when we grew up, they kept posting secret. You know what I mean?

You didn't know that until later. So you bought the illusion of friendship. So we were, you know, we were third generation rock and roll in the 70s, right? So we bought the illusion that they were all best friends. Yeah, 50s being the first generation. I see, then the 60s, right. You know, in terms of rock and roll years.

So we bought the illusion that they were best friends. I don't know if you ever see The Beatles' second film, Help? Of course. Well, you know, that scene where they walk up to four different flats, you know, four different apartments, right, doors. They open the doors and then they're all in the same apartment, right? Well, we thought that was how it was. You know what I mean?

You know, you live together, you were a band, and you know, you're in the same apartment. The Beatles, I mean, they were so early on the curve of when rock got huge that they really did. I mean, when they were on the road, they were the biggest band ever, and they were sharing hotel rooms. They never had their own rooms.

They were sharing the mic. How crazy is that? Remember? And I think, and of course it meant. Well, the mic was for harmony balance. And of course all of that made it better. That's one reason why they're the Primus into Paris gods on Mount Olympus.

Totally. Partly because of that. When you talk about the van and the, you know, traveling by bus and car, they tell that story of freezing England in winter, the van being driven by their roadie, and they're in the back lying on top of each other for warmth.

Well, they said for warmth. No, but can you imagine? And they'd have to like switch after a time because the guy in the bottom was getting squished. I mean, that band was tight. Yeah. And it was hard to believe they never got their own rooms. You know, it's so funny. Right.

But, yeah. You know, they were just making up the rules as they went. I also loved it when they, I loved the sharing of the mic, just as a fan, just as an eight-year-old boy. They were just making up the rules as they went. I also loved it when they, I loved the sharing of the mic, just as a fan, just as an eight year old kid watching them. There was just something about watching them spitting each other's faces from two inches away.

But keep in mind, they were no monitors. Monitors was a recent development, okay? When they played at Shea Stadium. It was the PA system. The PA system. There's no monitors on stage, okay? You know, when they played Shea Stadium. It was the PA system. The PA system. There's no monitors on stage, okay? What do the monitors do for you? That's what you hear.

You don't hear the PA. You only hear the monitors. So, you're not, the Beatles are not hearing anything. Right, I know. Okay? And Ringo has said he, you know, had to follow, you know. Visually. You know.

And I was at Shea Stadium and they sounded like the records. They sounded perfect, you know? Because they were on the same mic, they could hear each other. So the harmony was balanced and beautiful. And because they were lying on top of each other and they spent eight hours a night on stage in Hamburg. That's right. You know, they were forged in a way,

I don't know if bands will ever be forged again. It's true. It's probably right to YouTube. Well, that's the problem, you know, and I've talked about this many, many times, a lot of speeches after speech. You know, you can't skip that bar band stage, man. Don't skip it.

It's such an important stage. And these days, you can learn your instrument and make your own record at home and put it right out on the internet, man. But you're skipping that most important stage of interacting with an audience, interacting with a band, seeing what effect those songs have on an audience, all of that, you know? It's like doing stand-up without an audience, interacting with a band, seeing what effect those songs have on an audience, all of that, you know what I mean?

It's like doing standup without an audience, you know? Are you saying Justin Bieber isn't hard? No. Because didn't he go right from like grade school to like ushers, wasn't he ushered into show business? Am I getting that? Somebody adopted him and then. Certain genres work better than others, okay?

Straight to the online business, you know? But rock and roll isn't one of them, okay? Rock and roll is more like stand up comedy. Do you ever collab with any? A collaborator. Any of the kids? No, come on. You know what? That is not the worst idea anybody ever had.

Any of you kids listening out there, you would be a very cool, like out of the box collab with any of these kids today? You know, you never know. You never know. You say you're not waiting for it. I'm telling you, it would be cool. But you can't emphasize certain common ground. I mean, the craft is craft, man.

There's cool, and lots of cool acts out there who I think are great. You wouldn't collab with Post Malone or? Oh, I'd collab with anybody. I don't know, call me, call me tonight, tonight. I'm not busy. No, I'd be happy. The weekend?

I'd be happy to do it. That would be awesome. I'd be happy to collab with anybody. You could fucking, like. I just don't think of it, you know what I mean? I don't reach out to them, you know. Bring the soul fire to, Justin Bieber could use a little, you know.

I'm right here. I mean, look at this guy, what are you, 70, and you got hair on your chest? It's completely black, what the fuck is that? I don't know. I can tell you don't dye it. No. That's pretty great.

No. At your age. I guess, you don't dye it. No. That's pretty great. No. At your age. I guess, I never thought about that. Because in my mind, I'm still 25. That's probably why. That's probably why you kinda, I mean, we all age, obviously, but you basically look the same. Some people, they just have a very different look,

and some people are just like, oh, that's their look, that's the brand I've gotten used to. Yeah, it's a little, that's the brand I've gotten used to. Yeah, it's a little rough around the edges, I mean, but that's as good as you can do as we go through life. Yeah. I mean, Mick Jagger's about to go on tour. Gotta love it. You gotta love it.

He's 80, right? Yeah. To do the kind of show he does at 80? Come on. That generation, and you know, the whole baby boom generation are just completely changing the concept of time and chronological time. I mean, when I grew up, nobody was over 65.

I didn't know anybody in their 70s. Grandparents were, you know, half of them were in homes in their 60s, in their 60s. They were dead, yeah. Yeah, were dead. I mean, you know. I know a dozen people in their 80s who were on stage working, you know, and the whole British invasion is turning 80.

This, you know, this. Pete Townsend, right? Is he still? All of them. Right. They're all gonna turn 80. I mean, these are, you know, my heroes growing up, and they're still out there. You can't go on forever. I mean, that. Well, eventually it'll 80. I mean, these are, you know, my heroes growing up, and they're still out there.

You can't go on forever. I mean, that. Well, eventually it'll end, I guess, but you know what, I don't look forward to that day. I tell you, because. In movies, I mean, Clint Eastwood, I thought, went as far as you possibly could, incredibly, because, first of all, I'm a giant fan.

I just love his movies. I think he's a great filmmaker. And as an actor, also I think very underrated. I think he should have gotten an Oscar for In the Line of Fire. Did you ever see that one? Such a great movie. Wolfgang Petersen's, oh.

Anyway. But very late, he's making great movies. Great movies. I mean, the one But very late, very late, he's making great movies. Great movies. I mean, the one with Morgan Freeman, I think it did win, it might have won movie of the year. The Western, oh geez. Oh, you're talking about Unforgiven? Yeah.

That was 1992. It was? You don't know time, Jesus Christ. With Gene Hackman? 92? 1992. Oh. He's made like 50 movies since then.

That's the most recent one I think I've seen. You didn't see Gran Torino? No. Oh, you are in for such a treat. Gran Torino, he was maybe 75 when he did that one. How long ago was that? Oh, like 15 years. I mean, he did one last year when he was 90.

And I was like, okay. For all you've given me in the past, I'll let it go. But come on, man. It's done, it's over, huh? I mean, you gotta, you can be a director until you're 150 I guess but you know I just feel like yes, there is a limit to everything. We are only human.

I just love the fact that Rolling Stones are still out there man, cause you know that makes us the new guys on the block. But you have a show tomorrow night, right? Yeah. So, okay, so what is your routine? I mean, is there any difference in prep? No.

No, Fred, you were 23, no? No, no. Nothing. In fact, I do more now, because I do the meet and greet before the show. You have a meet and greet? Oh, hundreds tomorrow. Hundreds of people.

And what, they paid an extra? Oh no, that's a different meet and greet. I also do that for my foundation. Oh I see, this is for charity. This is friends. This is just friends? And you do it before the show. Yeah.

Because you wanna get out of there after? Well yeah, I have a certain philosophy about this. And everybody's different, everybody's different. But when I'm off that stage at the end of the show, the office is closed. Right. Okay? You know?

Right. Now I'm like, no. No. You know? I'm done. Do you do an Elvis exit? Like where you just go right from the building. Sometimes, sometimes, yes.

Really? Yeah. Like before the... But usually just to the grillie. Sometimes, sometimes, yeah. But usually just to beat the traffic. Right. It's horrible to get caught in your own traffic. Yeah, yeah, so most of the time we do that. It's not horrible compared to so many things in life. Not bad compared to the station wagon.

No. And the van. Right, or lying out. We keep things in perspective here. But yeah, tomorrow will be LA, New York, London. And these are all, I mean this is almost. But every city, every city, I will do a meet and greet for the foundation.

Right. And I raise. I bet you do. I'll raise three million dollars this year. Who wouldn't want to get this close to you? Yeah, we just charge more for the ticket. Right. And shake your hand, take a picture.

Oh, I understand. You know? Oh, yes. But like three million dollars, you know, for the foundation. Every year, or every show? Every tour. Every tour.

You know? Now some people do it for their own profits, and that's fine, you know. Right, yeah, yeah, of course. I me, I'd have to be a lot poorer before I went for this. And you're right, I could do it for a foundation or something, but I'm not as good as you. I'm just like, I'm like,

I'm not as good as you. I'm just like, I'm not as good as you. I'm just like, I'm not as good as you. I'm not as good as you. I'm not as good as you. I'm not as good as you. or right, went for this. And you're right, I could do it for a foundation or something, but I'm not as good as you. I'm just like, I'm like. Well, not everybody likes to do the meet and greet

before a show, you know, they have a routine like you were saying. Some people have to meditate and do all these things. You know, I'm like. Right, I'd rather, you know, also I'd rather give my actual money. It's so funny, when I was younger, if they asked me to do a charity, I'd always do it.

And very often it was tough, because charity audiences are the worst, certainly for me. Because I'm politically incorrect, and charity is like the most politically correct atmosphere because it's a charity. We're good people doing a good thing, and it's a good night. So it was always painful to me.

And I got to a certain point in my career where I was like, whatever it is, don't make me perform for those people. I'll give you the money. Whatever money you think I would have raised by being there, I'll just give you the money. And not have to face this fucking oil painting of an audience that I could never possibly

do well in front of. I mean, and these people who should love me, like I did one for animal charities. I mean, that's my cause should love me, like I've done one for animal charities. I mean, that's my cause. PETA, I love them. They get the lion's share of my charity and that's where my, you know, whatever. Some people love babies, I love animals.

Okay. But I perform before audiences there and it's like, you know, it's just, come on. I know we're good people for a good cause, but you gotta loosen up a little, you know. You just. Well that's why, who was it? It was probably you, and among others,

I think Seinfeld, or you just stopped going to colleges at a certain point, right? Similar. All of us. I actually did a piece on it once, and you just stop going to colleges at a certain point. Right? Similar. All of us. I actually did a piece on it once, maybe you're remembering, and I quoted him.

It was him, Chris Rock, and Larry the Cable Guy had all, at about the same time, announced they weren't playing colleges anymore. I had given them up long ago. Because I remember saying, you know, a Jew, a black guy, and a redneck walk into a college campus and they can't wait to get the fuck out of there. But it's true. Like, when Jerry Seinfeld, Chris Rock,

and Larry the Cable Guy all find it intolerable, maybe it's you. And it is. I mean, college is where humor goes to die. These fucking kids, these Hamas supporting morons who go to these elite colleges, the mouth of the river from which all the woke nonsense flows down from. Yes.

It kind of an early woke thing in the extreme sense that you were talking about, right? Maybe started in those colleges, right? Colleges is absolutely where it is. That early woke philosophy. Because academics, they very often live in this, I mean, that's where we get the term ivory tower, where everything is theoretical

because they're in the classroom, and they're very often left leaning, I mean, they're almost all left leaning in the classroom, and they're very often left-leaning, I mean, they're almost all left-leaning from the beginning, and then they're partial to theoretical stuff. I mean, communism, which is still fairly popular, even though on that kind of far, far left, because first of all, the younger ones, they don't study history, so they don't really get it

that, yeah, no, we tried it. It's actually way worse than what we have, way worse, and makes more people more miserable, and is way more oppressive. If oppression is your thing, you do not want to live in a communist country. I mean, you know that. Well, yeah, and again there's different forms of it,

but you know, because I spent a lot of time with the Italian Communist Party, which is very different than Soviet Union or China, you know, or whatever, they used to be, you know. But most of the time, people don't actually learn the definition of these words anymore. They just kind of adopt them. But the Italians got over their flirtation with communism.

I mean, for good reason. But it was, in its political philosophy, and I'm not here to defend it other than to say, as a political philosophy, nothing to do with the dictatorship of the proletariat did not mean dictatorship, you know what I mean? It was misinterpreted and turned into this fascist, basically a fascist on the other side of the spectrum. But the idea of communism, this idea of everybody

sharing things, you know, was not altogether, it's in and of itself a bad thing. It was just turned into a very bad thing. Everywhere it was used. It's not a bad idea. It's a bad idea to take it seriously as a model for how you could govern any place because people are selfish.

And you have to take advantage of that selfishness, which is what capitalism does. As bad as capitalism is, it's still better than any other thing because we've tried all the others. And all you have to do, if you don't believe that, is watch that movie The Lives of Others. The German movie was one best foreign film like 10 years ago, something like that. Oh, you should see that, The Lives of Others. The German movie was one best foreign film like 10 years ago, something like that.

Oh, you should see that, the lives of others. It's genius. It's about East Germany, you know, when it was communist and just how, like, and this is factual, I mean, they reflect it in the movie and the story, but two out of the three people of the citizens were reporting on the other one. I mean, you just don't want to live in that country,

or a country where you can't get rich. People have to think, I could be next. I might win the big check next time. They just do. It creates energy, and look, this country has a lot wrong with it, but one of the things we still have going for it that I know when I talk to anybody who's young or foreign

is they still feel, well, this is a place where you can reinvent yourself every day and maybe make a fortune, and there's not a lot to hold you back if you're willing to really have something new and work hard. True, true. A lot of countries don't have that.

No. They stop you. No, it's true, absolutely true. We could just, a couple little fixes would make a big difference, man. I mean, some kind of a billionaire tax I would start with, you know what I mean? I mean, when you start sending ships to Mars, you know, maybe making a little too much money.

You know what I mean? I mean, it's something to consider. You know? That's why I always compare capitalism to a raging river. Like, you wouldn't want to reverse the flow of the river because that's communism. It's not gonna work. But you want to harness that power

as it goes in the direction it's meant to go to towards selfishness, because we are. But you do need dams and locks on the river, because otherwise you do wind up with, I mean, we're gonna have a trillionaire at some point. Trillion, and that. And the disparity, you know, the disparity of wealth. At that top level, it's insane, because I've read

pieces where people prove that even if you tried and you were up 24 hours a day, you couldn't spend all that money. You couldn't spend $200 billion. It's really hard. Unless you're building a ship to Mars, you know? Right. And you know, spending too much on Twitter

and then killing it. Well, Elon legitimately believes, and this is an opinion I don't share, but deserves respect, I think. He legitimately believes that we need to be a two planet species because we're going to fuck it up here. And I agree, we do species because we're going to fuck it up here. And I agree, we do look like we're going to fuck it up here, but we've always looked like we're gonna fuck it up here.

My argument always has been knowing what I know about Mars, which is, you know, I'm not what an astrophysicist knows, but I do know there are basic facts, like it has no fucking air, and it's 200 below zero, and there are dust storms that last for six months, and you would have to live underground because of the radiation. That's what I know about Mars.

So my point is, how bad would we have to fuck up Earth where it was worse than that? And it was like, if it was worse than that, okay, I'll just call it a day, but I'm not going to Mars. No, I mean, it's not. But I'm not going to Mars. No, I mean, it's not, I'm sorry. But he's sincere about it, and he's probably right. We probably will need a side piece planet

because we're gonna fuck this one up so bad. And if you think the human race should continue, some people don't, I don't care. Well, I mean. I really don't. Do you? Well, would it be horrible? It hasn't gone well.

It has gone well. I think it's amazing how well it's gone. Look at us. But not for 90% of the country, of the world. That's not true anymore. That's not true anymore. I mean, the amount of progress we have made in the 21st century about what they called extreme poverty, like people who live on a dollar a day,

people who, you know, there was a time when a billion people defecated in the street. Those stats have all gone way down in the 21st century, muchly due to capitalism, even though there are purists who are like, how dare they build sweatshops? Because you know what, sweatshop was better than shitting in the street.

The rice paddy. The whatever. The rice paddy, exactly, whatever. And it's a bridge to, I mean look at all these countries like Vietnam and Korea and Singapore and like Malaysia and China that started out like agrarian in our lifetime. We've seen them move to sweatshop

and then to a really discernible, respectable middle class. India, you know, has a lot of poor people. It also has a very big middle class and some very rich motherfuckers. True, true. But just, you know, you can just kind of even up the score a little bit, I think it would make a big difference. And if Musk, you know...

No, it's true. I agree. You know what I mean? I agree. If Musk put his money into like maybe some practical use on the ground, you know, rather than going to space, maybe things would improve a little bit more. Look, this is the guy who already gave us the electric car. maybe some practical use on the ground, rather than going to space. Maybe things would improve a little bit more.

This is the guy who already gave us the electric car, so you can't rob him of that. Maybe the stupidest invention ever. The electric car? I mean, come on. Why? Oh, not the electric car. I mean the self-driving car.

Okay, well. No, no, I didn't mean the electric car. Which one is? The self-driving car is the stupidest those are. No, no, no, I didn't mean electric car. Which one is? The self-driving car is the stupidest invention I've ever heard of. I agree, I agree. I mean, all it's doing is putting tens of thousands of people out of work, and are you gonna trust one of those things? No.

I mean, you know. No, no, no. That's gotta be the stupidest invention ever. Also, because they're very, to work properly, again, theoretical versus real life. In theory they work because they're very, to work properly, again, theoretical versus real life. In theory they work because they're tested on like very smooth, good roads. I live in a rich neighborhood and the roads are horrible.

LA cannot give you the kind of roads you need to have for self-driving cars and they probably never will. But I mean, it's insane. It's insane. And they spend billions on this, billions. No, he's got a lot of bad ideas. He's got a lot of great ideas, and a lot of bad ideas. With a lot of bad people back on Twitter.

A lot of bad people. Well, and you think people should be banned from free speech? Well, I'm kinda with the Germans on the Nazis. I gotta tell you the truth, okay? I've just about had it with this First Amendment stuff, okay, at this point. I'm like, you know.

And that's not very liberal. No, I'm issue by issue. But I'm telling you right now, you know, Nazis are a special class of people in my mind, you know. They definitely are, but then you think they just disappear, that's the problem. No, no. Like, wouldn't you rather know what they're saying?

No, I know, I know, I know, and you have a good point. You have a good point. And where do you, you know. But you know, if you own the thing, you know, do you have to let them in? I don't know. We're at a dangerous point right now. Are you optimistic?

Yeah, a little bit. Okay, I don't think he's gonna get reelected. You know, I really don't. You mean Donald Trump? Yeah, I really don't think so. I think this wannabe fourth Reich, you know, that he's part of, I don't think he'll succeed, but we have to admit that. Oh, it's very possible.

He's smarter than our, he's certainly smarter than our justice system, okay? I mean, that we know, okay? You know, forget about the Justice Department. He's smarter than our justice system. I mean, at this point, it's not built for people like him. Well, a lot of, spittin' on judges' faces.

A lot of history, there is a theory they call the great man theory of history. Which basically is saying, obviously, that certain men come along, and men because most of history, but Joan of Arc may be in this category. Person of history will say, that's the important person, the Winston Churchill, the Napoleon.

Other people say, no, you know, history has its giant tides that ebb and flow and people just basically manage them. I would say technology is the determining factor in most of history. The technology changes in people, but then we just have to adopt. But in the Great Man theory, oh, who are you talking about? I forget a minute ago,

the way I started this whole conversation. Well, the Trump, the... Oh, no, I was the great man theory. Like, I feel like with a great man in place where Robert Mueller was, or a great man in place where Merrick Garland is now, I feel like things could have been different. I feel like a great person in those jobs,

I think for like Mueller blew it. I'm with you. I did a whole thing on it once. I feel like a great person in those jobs. I think for like Muller blew it. I'm with you. I did a whole thing on it once. I'm with you. And I feel like Merrick Garland blew it again. Here we are almost four years after the elections right around the corner and nothing has still come to trial. I gotta blame that at somebody.

I gotta say that's. I'm with you. I don't blame the bad guys. I blame the good guys. I gotta say that to you. I'm with you. I don't blame the bad guys. I blame the good guys. You know? Where are the tough good guys? You can't blame the bad guys for being bad. That's what they do.

Okay? You know what I mean? I would know that better than with your character. You were. Silvio Dante. Silvio, right. I blame the good guys. I don't blame the RNC for the problems we have. I blame the DNC.

You know? Do you have any acting things coming up? You like to be an actor too? I know, I wanna get back on TV, but I'm stuck in, you know, we postponed a lot of shows, so this whole year now we'll be making that up. Right. Yeah, yeah.

You know? So the tour is just starting? Restarted, yes. For how many, now how? We will do 52 shows, I think. And how long? The rest of the year. The rest of the year.

Yeah, we get a month off here and a month off there, but mostly the rest of the year. Do you ever do two nights in a row? Never. That's good. No, it's very civilized at this point. I mean, very. You know, it's wonderful.

It couldn't be more civilized. I mean, sometimes two days, you know, a lot of times two days off in between shows. So you always feel fresh. Yeah, you know, at this point, you know, it takes a day or two to heal. You know? Right.

It's like playing a football game. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Your voice, you know. And it's like playing a football game. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Your voice, you know. And it's very physical. Yeah, I mean it is with Bruce. With Bruce it is, because you know,

you're up, you're up, you're standing up for three hours, not alone. The show is still three hours long? Yeah, yeah, just under, yeah. That's a lot, yeah, that's a lot, that's a lot of, you know, your fingers must hurt. Well, that's what I mean, you know. Do they? We're in good shape.

No, once you're in shape it's okay. Really? But that's what I mean. If you're two days off in between. Just mentally, you know what amazes me? How you guys can remember all the lyrics, all the chords. Well I have to tell you, I don't mean to blow our cover here, but there are teleprompters now.

Of course. Yeah, well a lot of bands still don't have them. What about the notes? Do you ever like, oh shit. On my teleprompter, it's chords and lyrics. Oh my, I'm just going full hog and get a fucking hologram. Well that's next Well that's next. That's next. I saw the Avatar show.

I saw the ABBA Avatar show. It's quite remarkable. Wait, the what? There's an ABBA Avatar show in London. They're showing what the future's gonna be. It's gonna be avatars. And what does it look like? Amazingly good. It looks like ABBA.ars. And what does it look like? Amazingly good.

It looks like Abba. Yeah, it really does. You know, and that's gonna be the future of this. But you can't tell it's an image? No, I mean, maybe if you were in the first row, but we were 20 rows back and it looked very good. Like as if you would not even know it was not ABBA. Pretty close, yeah.

And for the Renaissance period of music, okay, which ended, okay, that stuff that's not being replaced ever again is gonna live forever, I think, as advertised. What is the Renaissance period of music? Well, I consider basically the 50s, 60s, into the 70s as a Renaissance period, where the greatest art being made was also the most commercial. But that's not what Renaissance means.

Renaissance means rebirth. Renaissance has to do with something from way back when. The Renaissance is art. But it's taking the ideas of stuff from antiquity, you know, which were dormant in the Middle Ages. Well, but shrink the time now, the chronological time, to the 50s being the nasons. Okay.

All right, the 60s becomes the Renaissance, where the best art, the greatest art was also the most commercial. That's the Renaissance, that's how I define a Renaissance. All right, and that's not being replaced. You know, it diminished every decade since, you know, in terms of the quality level. And that's just, you know.

Well, of course the kids would just say, that's in your opinion, Grandpa. I don't think they would argue with that. Oh, I do think so. I, you know. Well, of course the kids would just say, that's in your opinion, grandpa. I don't think they would argue with that. Oh, I do think so. I don't know. I think every generation, look, I don't get a lot of what the young kids listen to music, but that's what my father said.

I agree, I think. I agree with you, that's what our father said, only we're right. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. I, I, I. But I never, I didn't diminish Frank Sinatra's value.

I learned about it later. I didn't like it at the time when I was growing up, but I certainly love it now. And that's what kids, by the time they get to 17, 18, 19, everybody goes through a pop period. That's natural, right? 11, 12, 13 years old, you're into pop music. By the time they get to 16, 17, 18 now,

they discover the doors, they discover Led Zeppelin, they discover us, we get a lot of kids in the audience. And the pop stuff kind of fades away now. It's a little bit more transparent, a little bit more, you know what I mean? As opposed to the 60s when the pop music was the greatest music being made, it was wonderful. And I don't know, yes, it's a matter of opinion.

It's a bit subjective, I suppose, but all I know is there's not gonna be a whole lot of future, you know, looking back at this period of time, I don't think musically, you know. There's exceptions to the rule. Of course there's exceptions to the rule. I'm pretty much exactly where you are on this, except that, yeah, there's,

I don't feel like there's anybody who is consistently putting out the, just sheer number, I mean, I go by how many songs are you, are in my iPod of yours, that's how I, and like could I put together a great playlist of stuff from the last 10 years? Yeah, but it would be like, you know, two from this person, one from this person.

Like I could do it, but it's just to me, there's so much more crap surrounding it. Now when we were kids, there was crap too. You know, of course. I mean, there was bubblegum music, which we didn't like, or maybe we did, I don't know. Appreciate it now more. Bubblegum?

But even bubblegum. Not yummy, yummy, yummy, I got love in my tummy. That was bubblegum music. No, but Sugar Sugar, did you hear Willson Pickett's version of it? Sugar Sugar is not the worst. It's not of it? Sugar, sugar is not the word. It's not my favorite, but I agree, it has potential. You could do a funky version, he does, of Sugar, Sugar?

It's fantastic. Really, I gotta go. Wilson Pickett? Yeah, Wilson Pickett. But anyway, your point though is correct, of course. Of course there was lesser stuff. But we had rock and roll pop hits. There hasn't been a rock and roll pop hit in 20, 30 years.

And also, here's the difference. Our stuff from that era is still heard all the time. Commercials and movies. People know lots of songs from this late 60s especially, or 70s, 80s. But when you go back from when we were kids, if you go back that same amount of years, exactly, nobody knew anything from... Exactly, 19.

That's exactly right. 15. That's exactly right. This music has really endured more. That's right. And that's why I think it's very important right now for the publishers or the writers or whoever it is to change the law, okay? Because you can record, if I record a song,

you can record that same song without any permission. You have to give a little percentage of it, you know, you have to pay a percentage of it, whatever, nine cents a song, whatever it is. But you can record the same song, right? That's not true in movies and film. You know, you need a special license, okay? And right now, because the record industry is dead,

okay, there's no more record sales other than Taylor Swift and Beyonce, right? You know? And it all goes to Spotify. Well that's the thing, you get no money, okay? But worse than that, you got a bunch of whatever, 25 year olds with a song list with a number next to it. So if you wanna make a movie or a TV show,

you ask for the song, they look at the number and they charge you that number, which is always high because there's no other income, right? Well, the problem is, I know right now, three or four great documentaries that are not gonna come out because they can't afford the license to songs, okay? And this is a real problem.

And I think 10 years from now, 20 years from now, it's gonna be a problem, because all this music is gonna die. If it's not promoted and heard like you're talking about, you know, it's gonna be a problem, because all this music is gonna die. If it's not promoted and heard like you're talking about, you know, it's gonna be like Motown Who, Rolling Stones Who. You know? No, it's not. Oh, yeah, no, no, believe me, believe me when I say this.

All right, when we started, music and movies was free. It was free, it was part of the, you know, Marty Scorsese didn't even ask for permission to put Be My Baby in Mean Streets, okay? Because it was free, it was part of the, you know, Marty Scorsese didn't even ask for permission to put Be My Baby in Mean Streets, okay? Because it was free, you know? And people thought of it as promoting the records. Nobody's promoting the records anymore. But when our generation goes,

who's gonna know about this stuff? You think they're not gonna be playing Born to Run in 100 years? Oh, please. I hope you're right. Oh, of course they. But it would be helpful if they saw it in a movie where a lot of kids discover music, okay, you see it in a movie, you see it in a TV show.

Things have come back on the charts from a song in Stranger Things. I hear you, bro, but I gotta say, of all the problems in the world, I cannot put movies are going to be bereft of great songs like right off the top of the list. You hear me? No, not at the top of the list.

But I'm just telling you right now, a lot of documentaries are not gonna come out. And I just feel it shouldn't be a permission thing, it should be a percentage of the budget. You know what I mean? If your budget is 200 million, then five or 10% can go to music. But if it's a $10,000 documentary, you know what I mean?

How much do you think documentaries have actually changed the world? Like actually changed? Getting back to my thing about you and the Parkland, I really think you put an issue on the map, and then soon after there was movement, it started a ball rolling that didn't stop till it was finished. I do find that very rare.

And not to pick on documentaries, I mean, I made one, Religious, it's a documentary, a comedy documentary, did very well about religion. And there are people who come up to me privately, you know, when I'm out and say, you know, I saw your movie and I'm an atheist now, but I don't feel like, okay, yes, I guess one drop in the ocean, you know, here and there.

That's all we can do, what else can we do? Well, I do feel like your apartheid thing was bigger than a drop in the ocean. I feel like it actually. I got lucky though, I got lucky, okay. The timing was right, you stepped into a thing and you saw an issue and you laser focused on it. And that is really an anomaly.

Because honestly, as W.H. Auden wrote once, art is small beer. He said, art never stopped one Jew from being shoved into the ovens. Well, if they see a documentary on the Holocaust, it might keep this forthright out of the White House. Well, if they see a documentary on the Holocaust, it might keep this fourth Reich out of the White House. You know? I don't think it will.

I just don't think people. One vote, two votes, nothing? Yeah. I mean, come on. I don't know. How do you know it might make them vote for him? You just don't. These kids today, kids today with the marching for Hamas

and the crazy haircuts and the jeans. Oh, as I say, we dropped them the stink bonds on Vietnam. Am I right, Stevie? Okay, we'll be back to Rock Chat. Let's do a show together. I should be on your radio show and do Rock chat. Let's do a show together. I should be on your radio show and do rock chat. Yeah. Because I know a lot about music.

Sure you do. No, really, I do. People note that. I mean, just as a fan. It's very liberating to not have any musical talent because then you're just a fan, really. Yeah, absolutely. Anytime, anytime. Let's do, any time, any time.

Let's do something. You never asked me. You know? I mean, we'll invent a new segment, you know what I mean? The Bill Maher, you know? Coolest songs in Cory the Bill this week, you know? Something, you know, we can do something. Well, we could do a whole show on the iPod as opposed to modern streaming, Can you do something? Well, we could do a whole show on the iPod

as opposed to modern streaming, even though people are probably sick of me hearing, hearing me talk about how I still use the iPod, but I would like to have the time and space to make a full brief for the iPod, the old iPod, the moment the circle in the middle. What? It's like the transistor radio. It looked like a, you're right, it did.

I remember having a transistor radio at the beach on Long Beach Island. Oh yeah. Do you know Long Beach Island? We used to, you're from Jersey, right? Yeah. You do? I know the area, yeah.

Did you ever go there? Like, do you? Yeah. That's Cherry Blabitt territory, right? What was that? Yeah, famous DJ. Oh no. But isn't that near where you're,

Asbury Park and that shit? It's further down. Of course it is, but not that much. Was it considered like bougie to you guys? Maybe it was a little more. No, it's 45 minutes or. Right, and I guess you had to, well see there was a storm in 1962,

a hurricane or something that blew the houses all the way from the ocean into the bay across the island and it was declared a disaster area. So my father swooped in in 1964 when it was declared a disaster area. So my father swooped in in 1964 when it was like a disaster area and bought a beach house for $18,000, a duplex. Good move. Yeah.

Right on the beach? It was, I mean. Across the street. No, there was the beach and then the street started which is barely paved and there was one house and then, where were the second house from the beach and then the street started which is barely paved and there was one house and then, we were the second house from the beach, yeah. I mean you could be in the water and if you ran in 90 seconds.

Right, right, right, right. Oh yeah. You were protected by the wall, right? There was like a wall, a stone wall. No. Oh no? Just a road, just a road in a tree? It was a jetty at some point, but I mean, yeah.

Oh, can I go, when you get a little bit further north. No, I mean, that's one reason why it was so cheap was because that did happen once, but I guess they just were like, fuck it. You know, at some point they started to build again and, you know, people, I don't know. Got suckered in again. Yeah, I mean, there's definitely no wall.

I mean, how can you build a wall? You can't build a wall. No, I built it in like Seabright and Long Branch. You know, there was a, there's definitely no wall. How can you build a wall? You can't build a wall. No, I built it like Seabright and Long Branch. There's a stone wall in between the beach and the road. I mean, on the other side of the beach is a big wall. That's fuckin' ugly. Who wants to live with it? Well, until the hurricane comes, it's like,

then it kinda... Well, I don't wanna live by the water at all anyway. No. You know, I wouldn't. So you still have the house down here or no? No, I mean we sold it in the 80s or my... I mean... It's probably worth 10 million now.

It is, it probably is. It's amazing. I would shudder to think, it's probably a million dollar property, that's amazing. Your father had the foresight. Yes, 18. But you never went to the Jersey Shore? It's probably a million dollar property. That's amazing. Your father had the foresight. Yes, 18.

But you never went to the Jersey Shore? That wasn't a part of your whole? Oh yeah, we were considered, I was in Middletown, which is 20 minutes inland. What county is that? Essex? Monmouth County. Monmouth, right. We played all the beach clubs.

That was part of the circuit. Right. So yeah, we were clubs, that was part of the circuit. Right. So yeah, we were at. That was your Hamburg. Yeah. The beach clubs. Yeah, and Asbury, and the upstage club. What are beach crowds better or worse?

What, now? Like anytime, like beach, because I feel like the beach is a different, is a world of its own. Even though we live, I only live like, what, 10 miles from the beach. Whenever I go out to the, you know, like Hermosa Beach or one of those towns,

it's like a whole different world. A different culture. Yeah. Yeah. Not better, I'm not criticizing, I'm just saying, I don't know what the crowds would be like. Would it be more laid back, or would they be like so relaxed, they were great? I don't know.

Well, that whole scene was the first stoners, the first surfers, they were all kind of ahead of the curve with that stuff. But yeah, a little more relaxed. But we never were a member of a beach club, my family, middle class, but not that high up. So, but we'd play all the beach clubs, you know. And it was mostly the middle class audiences back then.

It was great, because when you were a teenager, especially then, there was no rules. No adult telling you what to do, because they didn't know what rock and roll was yet. It's so great you had that because I'm sure as long as it's been now that you've been in front of the stadium crowds, I'm guessing it just never gets old.

You never take that for granted, having lived through the lean years. Especially now. It's just such a joy to hear. There's so many people so excited by you. Yeah, no. I have a record label with a lot of little bands, and we can't get people to come out.

I mean, we just did a tour with four bands, all of whom could tour on their own. Terrific bands. We didn't do 50% of the capacity of any club. It's hard to get people to come out, so you're so right, I don't take it for granted. When you look at that list of who makes the most money touring, it's almost all the older bands.

I mean, obviously Taylor Swift, Beyonce, there are ones that probably are at the top, but other than that, it's Paul McCartney, it's the Rolling Stones, it's you guys. Yeah, you two are the new guys. They're the latest ones to break through, probably the last ones to break through. Well, I mean, there's a couple, you know, Green Day,

you know, there's some that do well, but. You don't look like you need to rest up for the show, but I'm going to let you go and release you back into the wild. Because... No, no, I kind of like it here. Can I live here? You can. I hope you're sitting here all night. They told me you had to be out at seven.

Look how good I did. -♪ Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh I'm excited. What is it with the drugs? You have such a good life. Why do you need drugs on top of it, huh? It's been so long, man. I don't even remember. Yeah, me too.