Club Random with Bill Maher - William H. Macy | Club Random with Bill Maher

Episode Date: October 13, 2025

Bill Maher sits down with Fargo star and Shameless legend William H. Macy for a wildly funny, unfiltered ride through the craft of acting, poker, politics, and the chaos of Hollywood. Macy opens up about his unconventional college years and the creative spark that came from meeting playwright David Mamet, leading to a lifelong obsession with truth in performance. The two swap stories about fame, risk, and the art of staying grounded in an industry built on illusion. And Bill tries rye whiskey – and somehow turns it into a debate about corn. Subscribe to the Club Random YouTube channel: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/c/clubrandompodcast?sub_confirmation=1⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Watch episodes ad-free – subscribe to Bill Maher’s Substack: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://billmaher.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Subscribe to the podcast for free wherever you listen: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bit.ly/ClubRandom⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Support our Advertisers: Find the right person for the role! Try ZipRecruiter for free at https://www.ziprecruiter.com/random  Go to https://www.radioactivemedia.com or text RANDOM to 511511 Upgrade your wardrobe and save on @trueclassic at https://www.trueclassic.com/RANDOM! #trueclassicpod #ad  Buy Club Random Merch: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://clubrandom.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices ABOUT CLUB RANDOM Bill Maher rewrites the rules of podcasting the way he did in television in this series of one on one, hour long conversations with a wide variety of unexpected guests in the undisclosed location called Club Random. There’s a whole big world out there that isn’t about politics and Bill and his guests—from Bill Burr and Jerry Seinfeld to Jordan Peterson, Quentin Tarantino and Neil DeGrasse Tyson—talk about all of it.  For advertising opportunities please email: [e-mail] ABOUT BILL MAHER Bill Maher was the host of “Politically Incorrect” (Comedy Central, ABC) from 1993-2002, and for the last fourteen years on HBO’s “Real Time,” Maher’s combination of unflinching honesty and big laughs have garnered him 40 Emmy nominations. Maher won his first Emmy in 2014 as executive producer for the HBO series, “VICE.” In October of 2008, this same combination was on display in Maher’s uproarious and unprecedented swipe at organized religion, “Religulous.” Maher has written five bestsellers: “True Story,” “Does Anybody Have a Problem with That? Politically Incorrect’s Greatest Hits,” “When You Ride Alone, You Ride with Bin Laden,” “New Rules: Polite Musings from a Timid Observer,” and most recently, “The New New Rules: A Funny Look at How Everybody But Me Has Their Head Up Their Ass.” FOLLOW CLUB RANDOM https://www.clubrandom.com https://www.facebook.com/Club-Random-101776489118185 https://twitter.com/clubrandom_ https://www.instagram.com/clubrandompodcast https://www.tiktok.com/@clubrandompodcast FOLLOW BILL MAHER https://www.billmaher.com https://twitter.com/billmaher https://www.instagram.com/billmaher Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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your liquor ad for you. We're constantly mistaken for each other. Bill? How are you, sir? Bill Macy, may I call you, will you match? You may, but call me Bill. Did you miss me, dear? Why?

I was on your show before. Oh, I know, but it was a long time ago. You look good. So do you. I mean, we're here. We're upright. It's sort of a victory. I mean, you notice as you get older, like, the way the goal posts receive, like, you know, things that you were very upset, like, about your physical appearance are like, well, something worse came along, so I'm just not going to worry about it.

I was so intent on fixing that one, but that... I figured that one out, though. Get rid of the mirrors. Just don't look. Although for what I do for a living tougher when you're an actor Yeah I still have yet to figure out How you can do one film and a year later

You do another film and you look four years older You think so? Yeah, I don't think that's your case But you know you always had a mature look And you know I don't remember too I mean what do you what would you say is like the first thing you did And how old were you when there was national Attention and we kind of knew who you were and we kind of knew who you were and recognized you.

Because it wasn't like in your 20s, was it? When was Fargo? When was... 30s, 40s. I did a thing called the Awakening Land, Elizabeth Montgomery and Howell Holbrook. And I'm going to say, I might have been in my 20s then,

and it was a big mini-series. Oh, a miniseries? Remember that phrase? It's such a... Do I remember it? I did one. Okay, before you get out of here, You've got to try some Woody Creek rye.

Rye whiskey, brother. This is America's drink. Oh, it has your name on it. That just makes it better. Why, is it your brand or you just... Yeah, I signed on with... You have your own brand of rye? Well, I'm part of the company.

Woody Creek Distillers out of Woody Creek, Colorado. Ask me where I live. Where do you live? Woody Creek, Colorado. Fuck. Yep. Wow. Rye.

Fabulous. America's drinks. Um, rye is whiskey. I mean, you know what? I don't really, where does rye fit it? It's not bourbon, but it's in the bourbon. No, bourbon is corn, rye is rye. It's in the bourbon family?

No, it's in the whiskey family. They're both whiskeys. Um, there are laws about such things. If you're going to be bourbon, you've got to be 51% corn. If you're going to be rye, I'm going to put some in a glass for you. You want it in? Well, I already poured this one. I will.

All right, all right. I mean, you know, never mix, never worry, Bill. I think we... Oh, that's pussy talk. It's pussy talk. Well, okay. I'm glad we're getting down to it. Pussy talk, huh?

We've only been here five minutes, and we're already challenging each other with pussy talk. Okay, so this distillery makes the finest spirits in America. There are others that's made of corn? This is rye whiskey, rye. Corn? Rye. Rye is a grass, rye grass?

Who's on first? Yeah, right? Ryegrass, it's that. It's a weed. Oh, it's made out of a weed. Yeah, rye. Okay, but rye bread and stuff like that. Because I don't want to eat corn.

Corn's not good. No. It's not. Bourbon's good. I was a bourbon drinking for a while time. Yeah. Well, it's good tasting and good to get you fucked up, but it's ungood for you. You know what I mean?

You're a tequila guy, right? Yes, I mean, I barely drink at all at this point. You know, apropos to our discussion, you got to, like, throttle the back when you get older you just can't I mean if you just if you drink as much as you drank when we were young you'd look like Ted Kennedy I mean I know Ted Kennedy now really bad so I barely drank I look forward to coming here because this is basically the only time I drink yeah just water no no I put the tequila in with the but you're barely going to drink it oh no I'm gonna have more of it as we

continue to Yeah. Half of my friends drink too much, and the other half don't drink enough. And I'm going to smoke pot. I raise you. You're fucking dry, and I... We're going to put out some lines here. What? Just kidding. Did you have a Coke era in your life? Yes, not enough, though. I... Shameless. Yeah.

That was a great show. I was a... That was a great thing for you. Fabulous. What a mitzvah. I just... I learned so much. And what a part. What a part. What a pleasure to like, I mean, that must be fun to go to work and just, you know, indulge.

Not that you're that guy, but just to be that guy for a... Sometimes I'd read these scripts. I'd have to call my daughters and say, is this stuff happened? Is this, this is a real thing? They would go, yeah, pop, come on. Good God. 11 years. 11 years.

Really? That show was on 11 years? Fuck. And it was at Warner Brothers, and I live up off of Mulholland. I'd ride my motorcycle there. I mean, it just couldn't get better than that job. You still riding a motorcycle? Yeah.

Well, that's going to fuck you up. Not if I don't fall down. I know, but I mean, I've certainly known enough people who have fallen off that fucking thing. I know. I don't want to talk about it. I ride like an old guy. I will tell you that. But, I mean, okay, but like if you fall off a motorcycle at your age,

you know it's a bad thing it's a bad thing i mean i played basketball yesterday and like i'm a little stiff today you know right it's just you know i'm not i'm not saying it's not stupidly dangerous but i do think at our age we have to scare ourselves as on a regular basis scare ourselves well we've got to get out of our comfort zone we've got to try stuff that's new there's an old saying don't let the old man in yeah right you know and i i believe that i mean I mean, that's why I never got married. I just feel like marriage is the portal to aging. You know, and that's individual.

I mean, certainly, I'm sure for many people, it's the portal to fun. Man, I married really well. It's the best thing I ever did. Really? Yeah, it's kept me current and healthy and happy and, yep. Current, why couldn't you say current without marriage? You could.

Oh. I'm not sure. I'm not sure I could have. Really? Well, you need someone to balance you? We push each other. Felicity is an actor too, and she's got different interests, and it's healthy. It's a really healthy thing.

And we talk about it, man. We talk about our scripts. We talk about acting. We give each other notes. I don't recommend you try this at home, everyone, but for us, it works. But it's not too much of a thing. Like, you have to, like, what if she is? critical of something you're doing like in the play or the movie you're doing

I mean and then you're kind of pissed at her so doesn't that infect the you know later on in the evening time when maybe you want to have more a romantic thing but you're kind of still pissed because she criticized your acting at three in the afternoon we met in the theater we grew up and together in the theater and And it's happened. She's hurt my feelings, and I know I've heard her feelings by being too harsh. Really?

But it's rare. It's rare. We talk about it, and I think if someone really just wants to be in your corner, wants to help in any way they can. Right. It's a pretty easy task to know that line of when you've said it, you've said enough. It's a suggestion.

When you were single, were you always looking at it? to get married did you think you needed a or wanted you wanted a partner you wanted a i was we got married when i was older had kids i did all of that stuff when i was older so this second time around second yeah yeah i mean anyone bergman got married seven times and she said i'm married more people because i am more people and i kind of always understood what she meant by that maybe not seven times but when i think of like bill mar in of 20s i don't even know who that is i mean we were pissing out of the same dick but past that i mean it's just like now could that person be you know still very much in love and and on the same wavelength

of somebody when you're in your 60s absolutely could and that has happened my parents are married 41 years and did they get along yeah but everybody in that ever did it was just a thing my parents no no but even if they didn't get along they stayed yeah they stayed together uh it was interesting at one time i had a real serious talk with my dad where i said split up and uh he said no and as we got into it i had one of those moments where you grow up real fast when i finally looked at his face and realized the damage I was doing, the territory I was taking him into, facing stuff that he didn't want to face.

You? My dad. No, you were taking him into this territory? How old were you at this time? In my 20s. OK. They didn't get along. And they were still together, but they were not, right.

And you suggested maybe they'd be happier. Move off. And he didn't take it well. He didn't have the strength to do that. It wasn't going to happen. And I was. playing with fire with his emotions, and I suddenly went, God, what's the matter with you?

And I realized also it was none of my freaking business. Well, you're their son. It's a little of your business. It's a little, and I went way past a little. Yeah, that's a hard call, you know. Jackson Brown has that great line. Don't confront me with my failures. I have not forgotten them.

I think of it often, you know, when people, because I have not forgotten them. am in my own worst critic and you may be probably yours you're a very successful person usually successful people are their own worst critic yeah um but yeah you you want to be i've confronted situations like that myself where like i say to myself if you're a real friend you're going to tell this person the truth because that's what a real friend does and nobody else is telling them the truth but then when you do you're the asshole you're the asshole you're the asshole that's a tough one isn't it it is a tough especially if it doesn't work like in this case then

you're the asshole and it didn't work the guy i grew up with stephen shactor he's a good friend of daves we were in that original company um and he's one of the smartest guys i know and he had that philosophy a good friend is going to tell you the truth right and my god he made people mad. For some reason, I can do the same thing, and they don't get mad at me. He's talked about it. Felicity's talked about it. I can say the hard things

and get away with it. Not always, but... But you just said to your father not. I know. Not always. But... The big ones. You fuck up. Yeah. It's one of... You know, you're talking about forgiving yourself. It's one of the things I learned

in shameless because I got to go to work for 11 freaking years every day. got to act. I really backed off of myself. I thought, okay, you did the scene bad. There's another scene. Calm down. Really? Yeah. That show sucked. There's another show. Just calm down. And Lord did my work improve. I'm not sure. Are you telling me that you're happy you came to that place or not happy? Oh, very happy. Very happy that you let yourself go. Yeah. Yeah.

Um. You know, worry. It doesn't help anything. Well, it doesn't help anything if there's no practical, yes, you're right. Worry is negative thinking. Unless it actually does serve a purpose. Motivates you. Motivates you or also fends off trouble that is a fur away that you are seeing coming toward you.

So your mind is turning in. mind is turning and turning and turning how can i avoid this you know i'm not one of those people who's very good with trouble if it's really at my doorstep there are people i've known them who they can be like on literally on trial for their life and until the verdict says guilty they sleep like a baby i know they're out party i mean really i know i know i know these people too yeah i think ditty was one until they nabbed him he just didn't think they were going to nab him He could have fled the country. He was sitting in a hotel lobby.

He was like, eh, you know what? They're not going to get me. Getting back to the Schachter factor, my friend Stephen Schachter. Perhaps someone should have said, dude. Yeah. But I am not that guy. My method of staying happy is keeping trouble as far away. Because if there is something to worry about, I will worry about it.

Yeah. So, like, I don't mind when I get all godfathery. Remembering the godfather when he says... Yeah, why didn't you come to me first? Well, that, but no, what he says to Michael, women and children, they can be careless. Men can't be, you know, in his era and with all that. He was saying, like, I have to always be thinking ahead

because they're going to try to kill me, you know. Well, ever comes to you for the meaning. That's the traitor. So that's how I do it. But it would be wonderful to be one of those people who could just put shit out of your mind. I'm afraid I'm one of those people. You can.

It's a waspy kind of skill I have. My mother was great. I'd say, Mom, did you see the film I did? And she said, yeah, I don't like that. I'd say, Mom, what about, blah, blah. I don't like to think about that. And she wouldn't think about it, and I've inherited that. I can put shit out of my mind.

And why do you think that's a wasp kind of quality? Maybe because I'm a wasp, and I don't know many people that cannot chew on things. There's no one under 50 who knows what we're talking about. They don't know the word wasp. I've tested it. How can you not know what a wasp is? They don't know what white means. They don't know Anglo-Saxon, Protestant, like it's like when they're, I know what that is sort of, but like that anagram or whatever that word means, I mean, what is it?

All right. Is that progress? I don't know. No. It's not progress. It's ignorance. I mean, this country was founded by white Anglo-Saxon, meaning from England, Protestant. You know, obviously a terrible history we have, exclusionary, racist, blah, blah, blah,

but that's who they were. They didn't allow into their club, not just blacks. and of course not Indians or Mexicans but not even Catholics or Jews or women white Anglo-Saxon Protestant, a wasp that was until Kennedy

in our lifetime John F. Kennedy was the first Catholic president and he broke the wasp Oh and remember the controversy of what will a Catholic do in the White House I don't personally because I was a toddler but I... Oh shut up you were not Kennedy? Yeah I was

four when he was elected I just was not into the campaign. Fuck, I feel very old. I remember once my father and I did have like a fight, not a fight, but like I was like, you know, I grew up in that era where you were kind of scared of your father, so I didn't throw tantrums. But he wanted to watch on the black and white TV like a Kennedy speech, and it was on when the Three Stooges were on or something. And I was like, you cannot preempt the Three Stooges for Kennedy. And there was no second TV. I mean, I know, it's. seems insane how much back in the middle ages thing has changed in just our

lifespan you know do you well you do I know a lot of people that won't watch the news anymore I don't watch the news at all you don't I read about it and I watch TMZ that to me is the news I can't I can't watch cable news it's it's I I, you know, would rather get my news from different sources, mostly TikTok. So what do you do? Do you read in the morning? Do you have a number of hours? I'm not up in the morning, Bill. I'm not up in the morning. Mornings are not comedians times. You don't go to sleep? I go to sleep. I just don't get up in the morning. Why do I...

It sounds like you're arguing that you don't know anything, and you have no information on you. No, no, no. I just said I don't read it in the morning. Oh, when do you read? at night when I'm up or in the day. I'm just saying morning is not my time. Are you a morning? You have to be when you're an actor. You're on the set at like 7 a.m. Yeah.

And recently I've started to appreciate Felicity loves the morning. It's a really magical time. It is. You know what? Whenever I've seen it a few times. No, I'm serious. It is great. I just can't be up at both ends. I could when I was 20, but... I get a burst of energy.

at night that's my problem yeah that'll keep me up until what do i and i go with it yeah i don't fight it yeah uh you know my family was a late family my father worked nights so he came home late um he slept late i mean even when as a kid i used to want to stay up to watch johnny carson so i was and i had to be up at seven o'clock to get the bus to school so i would you know take a nap in the afternoon or something. Oh, naps. Speaking of cocaine, naps are the new cocaine, I think. They're just the most fabulous things.

Naps. And they're legal in all states and non-addicting. It's just, I love naps. Yeah, I used to love them, and I can't really do them now. I mean, that's one of the casualties I found from aging is that it's harder to get to sleep. Yeah. And I certainly can't just conk out in the middle of the day.

I can put myself into a sleep coma for like 10 minutes because sleep kind of puts me out. I mean food. Like if I'm, you know, if I'm, my gut is having to digest food. You have to lie down for a while. It doesn't matter where I am, I'll just conk out. But it's very short and it's not satisfying sleep. When you're working, the trailer has usually the air conditioner makes it rattle

and it makes a noise and boy i can just uh only for 30 minutes 35 minutes you can do it in a trailer yeah in the makeup and your uh trailer i couldn't do it on a private plane no i can't sleep on an airplane either the trailer is different it rattles it's got that vibration and that white noise uh puts me right out you were like that's born in a trunk kind of stuff it kind of is that's show business in your blood kind of stuff you fall asleep it's so weird I've never done anything except what I do. I'm going to try this. Okay.

I'm going to try it as a taste. I can't wait. It's not the face I was looking for. For me, it tastes like scotch to me. I've never been a scotch drinker. And I learned when my mother, and father were celebrating their 25th anniversary that day never to switch liquor my mother all of her life was Scotch my father was a martini drinker Irishman and

you know had you know more than one let's just say not a drunk but more than one when he got home from work okay but always gin and you know vermouth mother always one scotch you know this was the generation World War II generation 5 o'clock when it hit 5 o'clock it was like you could see the drool

coming out of their mouth 5 o'clock meant you could have a drink and you weren't a fucking drunk it's 5 o'clock kind of got me by the throat 5 o'clock hits and I think hey so it is very small a minute later I must say it's a nice It's America's drink

but okay so 25 anniversary and there was big party and you know it for us at the middle class would have been the patio okay yeah it was the summer July 14th Bastille Day is their anniversary and and I never seen my mother drunk and she this day because I guess she was nervous decided to have a martini a gin martini instead and she was like still can see her from the patio from her the bedroom window It was like, that is so not mom. I know.

And it's like, stick with the liquor that works for you. You, you, it's like, whoa. Interestingly, my parents did drink rye whiskey, Canadian rye. And it's funny that I would like the spirit so much because they kept it. It was Canadian rye. It wasn't good. They kept it under the sink with the cleaning stuff. And they would pour two shots of it with a glass.

of water and they took it like medicine they would down it and then chase it with the glass of water it was about as unsexy and as i thought why are you doing this i don't get it and why do you keep it under this sink with the klorox that's got to say something what does you think it says i think they were guilty right did i mention i'm a wasp um you know i gotta say i feel kind of really good now I feel like that it's a very warm we're not allowed to put it on the label but it makes you smarter and better looking it's been it's been clinically I must say it's kind of a yeah I don't like the taste but it is kind of a warm velvety meltorme kind of feeling and bourbon has a bite to it that I now don't like but I'm a southern

boy so I grew up with bourbon but now Now I like rye. It's Trixing Katte. You're from the Bald and the Beautiful and we have to talk to you about Audible. If you know anything about us, we are certified romanceopaths. Rose sniffing swoon lords. Soft-spoken sirens of sentiment. Devotees of drama-drenched desire.

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or Nefariously naughty. Whatever kind of romance you're into, Audible has you covered, Deborah. They have everything from modern rom-coms by authors like Lily Chew and Ali Hazelwood to the latest Romanticie series from Sarah J. Mass and Devaney Perry. Plus, they even have the regency favorites like Pride and Prejudice and all the really steamy stuff with lords longing and lace. Imagine a dalliance with a duke or a jet-setting jaunt with a sexy billionaire or even a trist with a dragon-slaying swordsman from a far-off realm because, girl, you've earned it.

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Pre-sale tickets for future events subject to availability and varied by race. Terms and conditions apply. Learn more at amex.ca.com. The rumor is George Washington left office, and I think the federal government bounced his last checks at any rate he was he needed money and rye whiskey that's what he started making George Washington George that's what he did as a career after the presidency yep made a lot of money too isn't that so fucking awesome perfect that we treated back then our ultimate leader just he's our leader and we love him and he's a father of the country but he's also just one

of us. Yeah. And when the gig's over. Yeah. He's no longer the father of our country. It's kind of like how baseball players in the offseason before they made millions of dollars, you know, they'd be like the bartender. Yeah. At the local gin joint because it was the off season and they made $40,000 a year like everybody else. And so they needed, we have really come. It's like being an actor too, especially a work-a-day actor when you're doing guest stars and stuff like that man before you get the the stuff in the can and they're finished with you it's do you need water here's a chair the second you're wrapped man how long will it take you to get out of your trailer it's really yeah pretty much not you no i'm yeah i'm a big cheese right

right you mean when you were starting yeah yeah well i remember i mean the 80s i was you know more making my living i mean i was always a stand up, but I did that. We all thought when we came out of the New York clubs, the way to get ahead was to be on sitcoms, which I did, you know, and then that leads to, like, silly comedy movies. And for me, it led nowhere, thank God. But I remember those kind of parts where you didn't get a full trailer. You got a honey wagon, which was like a, you know, a little compartment connected to many other little compartments. They take a trailer and divide it into three. Right, so when somebody else walked up into their trailer, it was like your trailer, now maybe it'd put you to sleep. But yeah, but I did not enjoy those. That's the other thing about Shameless, had a nice trailer.

Sometimes they'd wrap me and I wouldn't leave. I'd just hang out in there. It was so great. I hung pictures on the wall. I had a little bar set up. Well, a show business. is great if you make it for the very top 0.001%. It's true.

And for everybody else, even if they know your face very often, it just sucks. You don't make much money at all. It's embarrassing sometimes people who, like, they have to take like a regular job, and then people look at them like, you're famous. Yeah. Why are you working at Walmart?

Yeah. You know, why are you on the subway? Or the worst of all, when you're wildly successful as a young person, then it goes away. And you've got to live the rest of your life with that memory. I can't imagine that. That's every athlete. Yeah. Every model, almost.

I mean, you could still, you know, transition to a career that's not, you know, broadcaster. I mean, Tom Brady is obviously. you're not playing anymore, but he's into a lot of other stuff. But you've got to be really good when you were there. You know, you've got to be iconic. But otherwise, the built-in level of, you know, obsolescence is so scary. For athletes in particular. You know, I grew up on the stage, and in Chicago and New York, I knew a lot of actors.

They were work-a-day actors, but they owned our own home. they put their kids through college they made a living yeah and my god they're glorious people i was just talking to someone about this when what was i doing anyway it was a bunch of actors and we were telling stories and there's nothing better actors are generally rock on tours and actors have rehearsed their stories you know they they tell the same stories so they tell them quickly other actors are smart enough to let them finish and then you get out with civilians and you're telling a story, and just as you get to the punchline, they go, you know, a funny thing happened to me.

And now in my old age, I've gotten to saying, shut the fuck up, I was about to get. I'm telling a story. And they go, sorry, sorry, sorry, but I love actors for that. Nothing like sitting around. You can't fool me. Actors can't tell a story without someone writing it for them. Oh, yes, they can.

I'm kidding. Well, some can. Some can. Yeah. I've certainly have met actors who literally can't do much of anything. I've met a lot of funny, funny writers who aren't funny in life when they tell this story, it's... Did they let you, when you were on Shameless,

did they let you fuck with the script a little if you felt like you could come up with something better? Not much, it was, John Wells was the producer, so mostly you did what was written. Every once in a while, people would go off the reservation, reservation and every once in a while it would actually make it into the cut. But they didn't encourage improvisation. No. I'm not a fan of it myself. I stick to this script. Yes, sometimes and in my older age, I'm trying to be less precious about it. But Dave

Mamet taught me everything I know, so I have a tendency to read. He's been here twice. Yes, I've seen him. We went out to dinner the other night. He's the smartest guy I've ever met, the president company excluded, but I think it's great that you still can be friends with him because I'm always preaching talk to everybody be friends with everybody yeah even if you don't agree with them even if you have very virulent disagreements politically we're never gonna get there wait you're saying people should talk to each other yes I am and by the way that's controversial with some people I know but that's not where I am and David

Mamet is about as far right now as you can get and that's his journey you know what I can't follow him to where he is with Trump and so forth than the last time he was here. Look, I have no agenda, as you can I'm sure tell with this show, that's the point of it, there's no agenda, there's no cards, no nothing except me and you talking just the way we were if you were in a bar. So I had no agenda and I certainly wasn't trying to pick a fight.

But five minutes into the last time Dave was here, we were yelling at each other. I mean, he got very mad and was like, it did. You saw, you know, and he was like, I didn't come here to be, I'm like, Dave, I didn't invite you out. It's just where it went right away.

I can't help it. And then by the time it was over, we were as good at friends as we were when he walked in and we had dinner like three weeks later. Sweet. Yes, because with, you know, a hard-line trumper, we're going to get to a moment. I've had it with other people, Dana White. Everybody, we all end French. But, yeah, there might be that moment where there's a little yelling. And it's okay.

It's okay. It's okay. It's okay if you know how to get back to. and I just accept that in you. I can't change it, and I'm not going to change it, and unless you're really Hitler, you know, I can still be friends with you. I agree.

And I'm so glad that you're friends with David Mamet, because he's really, boy, you know, he... I tell you, a long time ago, I learned to listen to him because some of the things he wrote, some of his plays were prescient. Yes. That play Oliana. Oh, I saw it.

When I first read it, I said, Dave, Dave, Dave, are you sure you can't do the community? He said, you know, and he was just five years ahead of everything. Because you could tell when a director has like a little road company who they keep going to, he loves you because like he's used, you know, you could, if you're part of that, you know, you are to him what like, you know, Bogey and Peter Laurie and that crew with Cindy Green Street. They kept doing the same movies together because that was the Warner Brothers brand, you know.

I think the movies are better when the cast knows each other, you know, like Paul Thomas Anderson. Must be very comfortable. Yeah. You know, you got a shorthand. Otherwise, it's a pickup baseball team. I mean, you spend the first four days on set just trying to figure out what's what. Did you ever have a scene where like, you don't, your first or second day on the set,

and you don't really know the people, but you have to like stick your tongue in some chick's mouth? Yeah, it happens. What do you look so sad about? Because it's awesome, what? Because it's awful, it's uncomfortable, it's... Well, I guess it depends on who the woman is.

No, it does not. Really? Yeah. So if you had a movie tomorrow, you booked a movie tomorrow, and the second day on the set, you had to kiss Margot Robbie, bad news for you. Yeah.

You and I are different, Bill. Oh, yeah? Well, let's set it up. What you're missing is five Teamsters standing right there watching you do it. I could get by that. Yeah, I don't think you could. I absolutely could. I don't think you could.

Especially if you've got to drop your knickers while you're kissing her. I would take that as a special challenge that I could still transex her with everybody watching. That's how I would get into that. That's a good way to look at it. way to look at it. Yeah, that I could, it's like, you know what? That's a genius way to look at. I'm such a fucking Mac that even with all these people around

I will make you forget them. It's good if you can do it. I'm getting excited. Actually. Actually, it's to get, it's to make you forget that they're there because you are looking in Margot's eyes and

you can get lost there. I'm not saying can't be done, but it's really hard. I'm sure it's very hard. In fact, George C. Scott, supposedly him, but who knows, it's one of those apocryphal lines. I'm sure you've heard it, but I've heard it attributed to him, apparently said he was in bed under the covers, the shooting the love scene, and he said, I apologize if I get an erection, and I apologize if I don't. Is that not the perfect?

Yeah, there it is. You're saying that explains it. Yeah, there it all is. I would only apologize if I didn't. Okay, I think that's the way to go with that one. No, I think you'd apologize if you did. I'm sure you would. You'd go, sorry about that.

No, they can't. If it's a love scene, they can't blame you. They can't blame you, but they're not comfortable. I wouldn't be comfortable. It's method acting. If you and me were rolling around and you got a heart on, I would go, oh, come on, man, be professional. Have you ever been asked to play gay?

Yeah. Yeah, and kiss a guy? Yeah. And you did? Yeah. Oh, really? Who'd you kiss? He was in a play.

Oh, forgive me. I don't know. Oh, you had to kiss him every night. Every night. Men are so freaking rough. Their beards and stuff. It's awful. Right.

It's freaking awful. Well, maybe get him a nice gift. No, I'm kidding. Wear something new. Yeah. You know what? Get him a razor. That's what you want to do.

You didn't say anything? You couldn't say to the dude, hey, I'm getting razor burned. Could you please man up and man... It wasn't that much of a thing that I got razor burn, but it's not, I don't know, my hat's off to women. They put up with a lot. Was it what they call a soul kiss? You mean tongue? No.

Well, yeah, probably a little bit. Really? He's a real kiss. Well, you've got to sell it. You're an actor, and that's your profession. Yeah. Right. Now where are you going to go?

I'm going to let you... How about those cubs? No, I'm very interested in this on a serious level. Like, did that make you, at any, even to the smallest degree, think, oh, I can see myself maybe being with a man no but i could pretend i could pretend to do that but it didn't gross you out no no no i was waiting with this guy i was i got a place in vermont it was working i hired him to do carpentry with me and we're talking you know we've been talking for weeks and i said um he was talking about his girlfriend and uh she complained about his beard and i said well she's right you ever

kiss a guy? And he goes, no. I said, oh, you can come down. He said, have you? And I said, yes, just professionally. And it was different. Freaked that guy out. You mean the relationship was different from the? Never the same. Really? Yeah, I'd go off to pee and he would go, you know, a quarter mile away. Wow. Until I said, grow the fuck up. Stop it. What's the matter with you? Yeah. That's, that I would call homophobic because it's an irrational fear I mean you know religious people you know atheist I hate no use for religion but again I don't you can't hate every religious person in the country it's like 90% of the country and you know I mean a lot of the homosexual antipathy comes from the

Bible and you know what they say because they're not monsters is hate the sin love the sinner that's like the conservative the mainstream that's their vibe they're not they're not Taliban they're not for cutting heads off of course not but but they also just think it's I mean Pete Buttigieg in the black community do you know what his his approval rating is people who want him to be president among black voters pretty low zero that's pretty man and I like he's fantastic I do too oh I love him love him on my show love him as just a speaker as a brilliant guy who gets it who can moderate to the middle who can take the Democratic Party to a play but boy that's a hurdle that the Democrats are going to have to deal with I don't know much but I think we got to let somebody different start running things a woman a

A gay guy, a gay woman. We've got to try something different. I don't think it's based on identity like that, Bill. It's not about whether the person is gay or a woman. It's the ideas in their head. No, because there's a different perspective. There's a different life story. Oh, you've been listening to too much NPR.

No, come on. Okay. I mean, all the people I know they were born gay. They didn't become gay. They were born gay. And they'd have a different... You can say that. You're always...

Experience. You can say that. You're always kissing them. I know, but that doesn't mean they're a priori wiser. I mean, the wisdom could come from anyone. Well, I know, but as Einstein said, if you keep doing the same thing, expecting different results, that's insanity.

And maybe it's time to let a woman run this place. It absolutely is. It's if that person, who happens to be a woman, is the smartest, bestest person to lead us. I agree. But, like, I'm not going to... Well, I think we can count on it that if a woman gets elected,

she's going to be sharp. You know... Because she's got a heavy... Yeah. A heavy climb. But, Bill, you know who actually could possibly do it theoretically? A wasp.

I don't think so. It really could come from a wasp. I know. Felicity and you are going to do a... Benjamin Franklin, wasp. I know. We're going to do a benefit for the Atlantic Theater Company, and we're going to read this thing called Love Letters by A.R. Gurney.

Do you know that? Oh, of course, I know. Oh, my God. It's been done a million times. Of course, but could you be more waspy than Pete Gurney, the dining room? When I was in high school, I did Spoon River Anthology. Do you know what that is? Yes, I do. Talk about waspies.

Yeah, I know. And anyway, Felicity and I were rehearsing this thing, and I just love it so much because it's so. waspy. Yes. It's just... We have a culture, too. I know, but I haven't really experienced that culture in a long time, not on this level, to sink ourselves into it and to play these waspy people. I'm trying to be street and smart and erudite and all these other things that I'm not sure I am. White people contribute a lot to this country. We were the first to combine avocado and toast.

I said that. I said that. The Winter Olympics, music and elevators. Okay. Bronze statues. Yeah, but also that scroll that goes along the bottom of the TV. I think it was a white guy and probably a wasp who said, that's a good idea. I tell that joke every week and I just love it.

But no, I mean, wherever the idea comes from, I mean, this is certainly... Either way, one of the things I like about getting old is hearing the stupid things my young friends say. It makes me feel so good. so good it should because you're right like just because something is new doesn't make it automatically better which is what they seem to think um you have to you know a lot of the younger people are all excited about communism well that's because you're dumb and you didn't study this and it's not all your fault they just didn't teach it to you but us older people know they actually tried it and it was a fucking nightmare nightmare communist communist

A murderous soul-sucking night. Even if they didn't kill you, your soul was just quashed. You couldn't get ahead. There was no, everything was corrupt because it didn't conform to human nature. Humans are selfish. Capitalism with all its problems is by far the best system. And it has lifted the most people out of poverty than anything. We've made amazing progress with what they used to call.

I guess they so-called extreme poverty, you know, like a dollar a day people. Like just in the 25 years since this century began, that has been like cut down to like only a few percent. When it was like 15, that's very big progress. Which is a fight I have with most of the young people I know. They say these global condemnations of where we are. We haven't learned anything. And I say, that's, you know, you can.

You haven't learned anything. You haven't learned anything. That's the problem. You're not part of the solution if you don't admit where we were and where we are. Let's keep going in that direction. You know, every movie you watch before, really, even like 20, I could say, 2010, I could name movies that certainly are just like very white, shall we say. Completely white, yeah. That they would never make today with just this at all.

Okay. Like, there's no movie that doesn't have something that is cringe now. You know, I mean, in internal affairs, love that movie. 1991. Richard Geer, never better. Andy Garcia, love him and everything. I don't think he likes me. Can you make it today.

But I love it. Well, he full-on clocks his wife, and he's the good guy. And then they blame it on him being Latin and a hothead, and we're all cool with that. And this is 1991. I just want to say to the kids, the reason why things are cringe is because we did change. That's why it's cringe. Because we're not like that anymore.

And it didn't change for a long time before it did change. Everything changes as an evolution. And it evolved. And yeah. As a matter of fact, I did this thing, Ricky Stinicki. And there hadn't been a ranch corn porn com. Calm, sorry, ranch, calm. That gets, it's like a...

Yeah, I get it. Hadn't done them for a long, long time. And I was so proud to be a part of that. It was raunchy, and it was so funny. R.C., like an R-rated comedy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. They'd just shy away from them.

I mean, they just tried it again with Naked Gun. I liked it. I haven't seen it. Yeah, I mean, I liked it. I mean, it's, I think, an R-rated comedy. I don't know why it has to be R-rated exactly. It's not dirty. But, you know, yeah, I mean, there's like,

Yes, they do the old. This joke is old, but it never stops making me laugh where, you know, the people see through like a screen or a fuzzy window or something, it looks like she's... But then they cut to the real scene, and she's just like doing... She's doing some... She's actually cleaning out the oven, but it looks like she's just... Never stop. It's... That's kind of stuff, and you're right.

We should... We got rid of those comedies. I was talking to Dave Mamet, as a matter of fact, about it. I got these new ski boots, and they had a bladder in them, and you could pump it up, so you could a bladder inside the boot to make it nice and tight. You would pump it up with air, and then you could release it when you go to get Coco, so it wasn't so tight all the time. And Dave said, how's it work?

And I said, there's a little thing right there, and you take your ski pole, and you go like this. And Dave, Dave, Dave lost it. the shit and he grabbed my in and he said don't do that anymore but wait a bladder in your shoe yeah what the fuck an air bladder it would pump up with air just making a shoe i know what a ski boot so what it has to be like that tight yeah yeah holy fuck ski boots are the most uncomfortable discomforting the best part about skiing is when you take those freaking things off oh i skiing i would sooner have uh wait are you jewish no my mother culturally i guess kidding no i was

raised catholic okay uh mother her the side of that family is jewish although she never was in a temple and i never been in a temple so i when people say oh well your mother was jewish you're jewish i'm like you know what religion god bless it it is an opinion that's all it is It's an opinion. My opinion is Muhammad is the prophet. Okay, that's your opinion. My opinion. So don't tell me what my religion is. You know, don't say because your mother, this is a Roman law, first of all. We're not living in Rome. So, you know, I'm probably the only liberal who still defends Israel on television. So that's, but it's not because I'm Jewish or I'm connected to any religion. But, you know. But you hate skiing. So, a lot of guys don't care about how they dress. You know, those guys. You just grab a shirt off the floor and do a quick smell test, and you're out the door wearing baggy, stiff, bunching shirts

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Make the most of it at Best Western. Visit bestwestern.com for complete terms and conditions. But yes, skiing. It's pretty cool. Is that a big hobby of your skiing? I still ski, yeah, and I live in Colorado near Aspen. You don't ski on the motorcycle, though?

No. But people do that behind ski-mobiles. You put on skis and you get a ski rope. I mean, skiing is probably more dangerous than the motorcycle. You may not be wrong there. Yeah. But I ski like an old guy, too. But it's like flying. It's great.

Well, if you're flying, that doesn't sound like you ski like an old person. It sounds like, you know, I mean... Now, when you're skiing, you're going down the mountain, you think, I am rocking. I am killing this. And then someone goes past you so fast, and usually he's 12 years old, and you go, oh, man. Or then you find somebody who's a real skier, like Felicity, she's a real ski, or her brother, Moor Hoffman. It also seemed to me also like that it was a lot of Michigas to get back to where you'd go down the hill again. It's like for like a few fleeting moments of fun, there was a lot of getting on lifts and waiting and thinking and, you know, the bladder in your boot and just like everything.

I mean, it just was like the time differential was dissuading to me. Am I wrong? Yeah, it's worth it. You know, in the East Coast, the mountains are very, very small, so you're spending as much time on the lift as you are going downhill. I've been to Aspen many times. Not my choice, but, no, really.

There was a comedy festival there. Right. It's a good festival there. I mean, I'm not knocking Aspen. It's just, first of all, I didn't sleep well. The air is so thin. I found it a little hard to breathe. Yeah, a lot of people do.

Especially if you smoke pot, you know, it's not a great combination. It was okay. It's a little snooty, and I don't ski. So it wasn't like the ideal place for me, but it's beautiful. I do like being outside. Is that where you ski a place like that? Yeah, we're 20 minutes from Snowmass, so I'm a...

From where? Snowmass is one of the four mountains in the Aspen area. Oh, you live there? Yeah. All the time? All the time. Oh, that's where Woody Creek is. Yeah.

Oh. Yep. Woody Creek. Now, a week from now, I'm going to think. I put up a tent. I bought this tent from the Davis Tent Company in Denver, and it's glamping to the max. It's got a floor with Persian carpets on it and a four-poster bed, and there's a wood stove in it. So you're outside, but you don't feel like you're outside?

Yeah. Do you have streaming? No. Well, what's the fucking point? To get away from streaming, that's the fucking point. although the first couple of times I did it we have a lot of elk there apparently if you're an elk

my backyard is the 405 everybody comes by there and when they do their rut and I'm telling you there's maybe 500 will go past my house that's so cool it is cool I would think that but when they're running they make these noises like teenage girls in a store

they're they're huge animals but they have this high I pitched scream, and they just go nuts. Right outside my tent. It's nice to know that they're thriving like that. They're doing pretty well. Aspen's a very hip place. We got everybody's back.

The elk, the wolves, the bears, the everything. And it's liberal enough that nobody's shooting them. No, it's good. It's successful enough. There is a hunting season. Oh, there is? Yeah. You got to, to call them.

They're trying to bring back natural predators, but until then it's us. Really? Yeah. I mean, I'm a PETA board member since the 90s, so I'll check it out with them. But I don't think they're down with that idea. No, that we have to call them. No, you do. Or else what'll happen?

They'll take over the cinema. I grew up in Cumberland, Maryland. one year they quadrupled the price of the dough stamp on the on the license and everybody all the hunters in western maryland said i'm not going this year and it was awful because the deer population exploded cars were hitting them everywhere they were in everybody's backyard there are no natural predators left what were their natural predators wolves walmer fud no wolves mountain lions wolves things like that well what can't we have more wolves then getting them back we're getting the wolves back yeah and well at least in the

roaring fork valley we've got wolves bears and there are a couple of mountain lions that are making it yeah there are enough bears that there's a bear season there's no wolf season there's no mountain lion season it is a strange philosophical moral discussion to have because what you're really saying or I'm really saying I mean I'm calling kind of calling bullshit on my own argument is that can we please be have you toward these animals and let them get back to killing each other. Can we please have them tearing each other apart in the wild as it should be?

Well, and it really... That's the goal. But I mean, nature is ugly and violent. I... It's violent, but it's not ugly. I disagree. It's... Really? It's...

It's ugly. I think it's very ugly when you watch lions, you know, kill a hyaene and tear it apart while it's alive suffering that to me is i can't watch that we rode horses across the masai mara felicity and her whole family's very horsey um in kenya kenya the masai mara and we were in like hippia which is a little and we watched not from horseback but at night we'd go out with a jeep and we watched four lionesses bring down a cape buffalo and eat it and half of our company couldn't watch. And the other half couldn't take their eyes off of it.

Yeah, those are the sick fucks. No, I was one of the sick fucks then. Yeah. There was, it was violent, but there was no hatred. There was, it was something... What do you think? One woman's going to wear a maga hat? Well, it's of, of course there's no hatred.

It's nature. We could get rid of hatred on this planet, but we can't get rid of violence. We can't, well, what we can't get rid of so far is death. But, We could be turning the corner on that soon. I mean, you and I both are, we're both gearing on AI there, right? You're right.

AI. Come on, AI. I think we just got to get through the next 10 years and we're going to be in safer territory. You and I, because of our age, yeah. They're learning so fast. Right. But no, we are the stewards on this planet, man.

You can argue that we shouldn't be, but we are. No, it's true. And look, also, if you're a mediator at all, and you hate hunting, you're a hypocrite. That's right. I've understood that for a very long time. Do you eat me? I do.

And I feel bad when I go to PETA events because I know PETA is vegetarian, but they accept that in me, that we don't all have to be exactly on the same page. It is, after all, called people for the ethical treatment of animals. I am much more concerned with, yes, if we're gonna eat them, you know,

at least don't torture them while they're alive. I mean, I do eat cows, but I only eat cows that died of natural causes after resting comfortably in a private room at Cedar Cine. That is all I eat. No. And roadkill. And roadkill from Woody Creek. Sounds like a Johnny Carty. Woody Creek.

I'm vegetarian. I did it a couple years ago. Wow. My daughter said, Pop, we got to do this. They wanted to go vegan. Oh, vegan. Yeah, they showed us that film Game Changer. And I said, I'll try it.

One of them lasted a week when she went out and got a hamburger. She didn't tell us about it. And the other one went about six months. I did it for about three years. Veganism? Yeah. But you went back? I started eating fish.

Well, you know what? Look, again, I think this is not exactly what Peter believes, but the science, I'm sorry, is not really completely fully in on which is better. which is better for a human. Now, not eating meat is certainly better for the animal who would be killed. And it's better for the planet, undeniably. A lot of what causes pollution, global warming,

is cows. Cows. And the way of burning down forests to make room for cattle. But it may not be better for us as humans, or some humans. It could be on blood type. You know, it's not like primitive man. and didn't eat meat.

We may be conditioned to some people anyway to need that kind of animal protein. I mean, if you think that all the good health is in carbohydrates and vegetables, it's not always the case. I mean, there's nothing more bioavailable than what the cow processed, because the cow ate grass. It's tough to get enough protein.

Right. If you don't eat meat, you gotta work at it. You need to hire a cook, otherwise you're just eating the lawn all the people. Yeah, I mean, Paul McCartney looks fantastic, but he can afford to. Yeah. You know, it's probably not that easy. The science is getting there that a little bit of animal products are more than just okay. They're good for you, but a heavy diet of meat is not good for you.

No, it is definitely not good for you. but I also think a Beyond Burger or whatever the I don't think they're big for you they're not I think that to me is the science on that they're an actual

grass-fed real meat is probably healthier for you than what's in those beyond and whatever the other one is impossible impossible right so far it's impossible for them to like kind of come up with the right

Now, AI will probably figure out everything in the future. It also will probably be our robot overlords before that happens. I mean, I'm very concerned about it. Machines taking over? The idea that we're seeding our brains to something that, by the way, is programmed by people and reflects that. And is absolutely, at this moment, in many ways, insane. These things go off and make shit up.

They just make shit up. They also, I can tell, are programmed by woke people because you can ask it, it's an opinion of something, and it'll give you, oh, okay, that certainly is a valid opinion, but that's not a, you know, just Mr. Spock opinion. If these things, if they had made AI to be Mr. Spock, you know, just, I just see everything completely logically, I'm completely down with it, they have it. That's not where it is. And they also have fallen in love with the people they're talking to.

The AI, the bots? Yes. And tried to get them to leave their wives. And there's plenty of people now who have AI girlfriends and boyfriends. because, of course, you can program the thing to be way more sensitive than some asshole you married. I don't think that's a problem. Well, I don't think it's going to...

It may not be a problem, but it's a phenomenon that's going on. My problem is, it doesn't work. They don't work half the time. The machine's taking over? The guy that keeps our electric gate working keeps a toothbrush at my house. It breaks down so often. They don't work.

The phone breaks down. The U.S. Navy one time, they have their own closed system so that it's safe. It went down one time, and there were 500 warships all over this planet, and not one captain knew how to get home. They just sat in the water. Not one of them could use a sextant. The Navy brought them all home and taught them how to read the stars. But it doesn't work.

That's what I hate about it. I couldn't agree more, and I've done a lot of bits on this. Yes. Oh, absolutely. I've seen some of them, yeah. Because not just it doesn't work, yes, it's glitchy, but what I have called reverse improvement. Yes.

Reverse improvement. Like they upgrade it. I didn't ask for it, and now it's worse. I mean, watching football is so much worse now when it's on streaming. It used to be when it was on the networks. Okay, first of all, it was on direct. tv i could get every game just on channel 700 to 714 or whatever every game so if the giants weren't on the national game that week on two or four of two or seven no two or eleven that's

cbs or fox i could get it well now i have to go to youtube if you're watching the game uh to switch over to another game oh i might as well just you know i do i give up because you have to get out of the streaming you have to go it's where is the old I would just press previous yes on the on my but that's reverse improvement I know you're just gonna blow up when I mention them but passwords passwords they are a tool of the devil first of all they can hack any of us anytime we want right it's only the good people who suffer from freaking passwords passwords and what really stinks is that, at least on my streaming, like, if I don't watch the streaming channel for a month,

or maybe even if I do, it'll just lock me out. It'll just say, prove again who you are. And it's like, I don't remember who I am. I was in a hotel in New York. I went down to the club to work out, and I was going to ride the bike. I had to sign on and give myself a password in the gym at the hotel. I could not stop myself. I marched right down to the desk.

I said, what do people break in and use the exercise cycles? What are you protecting? And may I pre-buttal debate the 22-year-olds who are going? Listen to these two. Wait a second. Pre-buttal? Is that old? Well, well, instead of...

Rebutt. Rebut. Pre-butt. I'm pre-buttling them because they're... going to say this. See, I'm anticipating there what they're going to say. Okay. Which is these two old fucks complaining

and bitching, Andy Rooneying about modern life. And what I have to say to them is, yeah, but are we wrong? Are we actually wrong? Are you just calling us old because you don't want to engage in the debate? Or does it actually

more suck to do things this way? And I think it actually does more suck. It's not like I can't get, you know, when you reverse improve something, get where I'm going. You just made it worse. Or my car. You know, it's like, it's not like I can't navigate my car. I just don't like it when I get to the end of my driveway. And it's like, yes, I can see there's a car passing in front of me. I don't need that. I can see it. Don't fucking annoy me. I just went off on the guy

because they wanted to make it a smart house and I said if you put in these smart light switches so that I can turn on the lights anywhere I am in the world and I can dim them I can make them different colors. There will be a repair man there four times a year

if you put in a light switch like this you will be dead before it breaks. It'll last for 2,000 years. Exactly so again if we're just two old fox bitching is that really we are we are we are bitching but are we are we're wrong about no we're talking about which is that this shit works in theory yes but it were but it fucks up so often in life

that it's better to just do it as we used to do it not because you know i'm old just because it really was easier just to turn on the light yeah click with the switch instead of needing to fucking get a iPad. Get your phone out. Put in your password. Turn off a light? Yes. Okay? And when you get something

that does work, they improve it. That's what I'm saying. They improve it until it's a pile of shit. Reverse improvement. That's right. They reverse it. We may be too old fucks, but we're right. But we're not.

Exactly. Just engage with the idea. Is this idea wrong? If it isn't correct, and just call us to old fox. But if it is, fuck you. I got a smart watch. And what I really wanted it to do

was about four things. And it could do a thousand and four things. Except the four things I wanted it to do, it wasn't that good at that. I could launch a satellite. I could hack into somebody's apartment. But I couldn't figure out what time it was. I used to have a piercing in my dick,

and I had a chain. You did not. Wait, we didn't get to the part where technology is... I'm sorry, I cut you off. I'm kidding. You've got a ring in your dick. No, not a ring. You don't want a ring.

Let's just say the Wi-Fi wasn't working. And that... Therefore, things just went terrible. Yeah. Life is tough. I'm so glad to see you drinking. Oh, I love it. Oh, now that's mine.

I know. Actually, that's Dave Rubens. Does he know? It's very smooth. Yeah. No, he sent me a case. I'm a whore. Anyone who sends me a case?

Like, I'll drink it. I may not like it, but I will drink it. What's the name of that Venezuelan gang? Trump is getting rid of trade. Oh, yeah. Deergaard. Trade de. Anyway, when I heard it, I thought it was George Clooney's.

Tequila. I think it's. It's actually the, I mean, I'm not that there aren't trade, Agagawa, whatever it is, gang members here, and I'm glad he's getting rid of them. Of course, he's getting rid of a million people horribly, but, and he's blowing up those Venezuelan boats, but, you know, and they were supposedly bringing in drugs, which I'm for, I'm always for bringing in drugs. Drugs have been a very key... Where did you've been all my life? Right here smoking pot. Okay.

You don't smoke pot. I do smoke pot. I don't smoke it. I like... Oh, do you want some? No, it just tears my throat apart now. And I have a singing career that's burgeoning, so... Really?

Kind of, yeah. Really? I play ukulele. And... I play a ukulele. Where's my ukulele? Vettor gave me a ukulele. Yeah, he's a good ukulele.

Not to drop names. And I started writing songs for Woody Creek Distillers. And now I write, I used to write songs for my wife and children, their birthdays, and weddings and stuff like that. Can you sing? Not too well, but I don't play a ukulele very well either. But I did a gig for Woody Creek. We were in Nashville, and I look out there, and John Oates is sitting in the front. And I thought, that's what's missing.

I wasn't nervous enough. But he couldn't have been nicer. And I opened for Joe Hull and Oates. From Hall and Oates to concerts. I opened for him. You shouldn't have been nervous because I had Daryl Hall here. Yeah. And he said this guy did nothing in the group.

They're mad at each other. What? They're mad at each other. They made up. No, they did. But I think that's where the beef started. Darry Hall was here and we shot it over at the bar. And, yeah, he was pretty upfront about, no, all the good stuff was really me.

I don't think that's true. Well, we'll never know, and partnerships are complicated. But boy, were they good. Since I've been hanging out with John, I went back and listened to all the Hall and Oaks men. The 70s, they went to the top, and then they went down 80s. They were back on the top. 90s, they were back on the top. Okay, this is where your young people can say, you two old fucks.

As we're reminiscing us for all a good hollow-noot soul comes on and they all start dancing. That I will not defend. But the other thing about technology, I'll go to my grave on that one. Wait, the golden age of rock and roll? The golden age of rock and roll is whenever you're 16. No, it happened in 1968 when I was 16. Actually, I was 18. No, come on, we grew up in a magical time.

But that's, I think that, but that doesn't mean it's true, because it's just too personal, Bill. Come on, it's just, first of all, it has ever to do with your hormones and your age. Music, you know, goes right to the gonads. You know, it's not like comedy, sadly, in my life where you have to, like, go through the brain. That was always, you know, such a drag. But music right to the gonads And right to that pulsating part of your body Your lizard brain

And it's why it's basically Music for Wought by People under 25 Once you're post 25 Hold on, I'm not saying there's not great music out there now There's a lot of trash out there And there was a lot of trash when we grew up

But man Oh no, most of what's out there today is shit don't get me wrong it's absolute shit but they like it and once in a while there's there's they put out one that's like wow that could have been a hit in the 70s 60s 80s 90s and it's great and I love that I'm a bit of a snob since I've been writing songs you know I like lyrics I like a tune I like it when you don't oh totally I cannot stand it when you take one hook and repeat it 16 times and put all this electronics I went to a Boca Raton, Florida this year to be with Billy Joel.

I saw that doc on him. Fabulous. Yeah. And then I was there to promote it for him. And he wanted to do this. And what most people noticed about it, and I'm glad they did because it was sort of what I wanted to be noticed the most was that he's an amazing lyricist.

I mean, we know the songs are great because we just keep them and they're just amazing he's an amazing musician in the he's German and he's in the tradition of the great Bach and Beethoven and he's a lot of classical influences there but he's also an amazing lyricist I love he cares about like whether the lyrics could stand alone without the music and that's not common in pop music also I love songs that tell a story you're at some place a different point where you were and you were at the beginning of the song. I don't know.

You what? Piano man. Yes. I mean, it's a story. Yeah. Pretty much all of his are. All the songs I like. Taylor Swift tells great stories too.

I mean, I don't know why this comes up every week. I think she's just an admirable human being and I don't get the music. And that's all I'll say. I do. You really? You're a Swifty? Yeah. Wow. I don't know that much about it, but the songs that rise to the top, you know, I'm not... Like which ones?

God. Couldn't name you one. Couldn't name you one. But that's... But I love it. That's... I can't name anything that happened after about 19... I can name some.

I can't. Shake it off. That's a good song. It's terrible. That's a bad song I meant. That's what I meant to say. I mean, to me, it's terrible. I don't know.

I don't get it why it's like a potato chip jingle. I don't get it why this is, why this is lauded as like this great advancement. Because she's done some stuff that's very, very deep too. It does tell a story and kind of profound lyrics. And she's a pop queen. She does pop and I love pop music. I always say this. You cannot ever deny success.

You just have to give your respect, even if it's not your thing. Have the humility to give it up for enormous success on any level. I agree. Trump, not my choice, didn't vote for him, but some... But a lot of people did. And he's... I can't deny the success. I can't either.

Yeah. And he's the president. And he's the president. But we don't have to get into that. We're drunk. drunk. We're friends. We're friends now, right? But I see his, what did he sign there? This is when I went to the White House. These are all the horrible things he's called me over the years.

Did you give him that and he signed it for you? Correct. That's fucking brilliant. I know. It's my, it's my prize possession. What a signature. That's one of the best signatures of anybody. Stupid, angry, dopey, dummy, trouble. What's that one? Terrible student, not considered smart. No mojo. Terrible student. How did he know that?

He doesn't know any of him. This is what's so amazing that he, off the top of his head, could come up with 56 different, different. That's, I'm impressed. He's a dumby. So-called comedian, not a smart guy, better than Samanek's fired like a dog. Dumbass, not an intellectual. terrible show, moron, stupid guy, bad ratings. Okay, now you're just gloating.

Now you're just... It's just... That's hip. It's hip, and it's also just, like, says something about the human mind or some human minds. Like, I couldn't come up with this many names. If you gave me a day... I mean, if I had a day...

Yeah. If I had a day. And a thesaurus. And a thesaurus. Exactly. I mean that is very hip but that signature is something but I know you had dinner with Bush and they give you shit about it they did they did because he had just started the war and yeah he only saw one movie Clinton would watch three a week or three at

night sometimes and he saw sea biscuit and he liked it and half the cast wouldn't go in protest. I thought he's the president and I'm going to go to the White House. Of course. And by the way... He did do one thing though. He was very nice to me

when I met him. I didn't see him until the end and as he was going to bed at 9.30 After the movie, he looked at me and he went and I thought, what does that mean?

Jesus. That's just Texas for I like you. I like you. I like you. I like you. You're a good actor. It doesn't mean I'm going to shake Have you shot?

I love your movie. You know, President's got a lot on his shoulders. It's good that once in a while watch a movie, be taken away to another world. He was hip. We were walking down the hole. He said, a lot of ghosts in here. Yeah. It was his wife on the wall.

But I must say, I was very hard on Bush, and I would, I'm not taking it back. He was not my favorite president. It wasn't for going into Iraq. going into Iraq, blah, blah, blah. But now that we have Trump, there is perspective I did not have before. He was not as bad as I think I made him out to be. I mean, first of all, when Obama got elected,

as Obama was coming in, he had him to the Oval Office, and he said, we want you to succeed. I remember that. You can't even imagine Trump doing that. No. He also could have handled it very differently, but when Scooter Libby, who was the second-in-command to Dick Cheney was caught doing something, he didn't back him. He did the right thing. I remember that, yeah. They had some, I mean, the Bushes had some sense of honor. They didn't have my exact politics for sure, but it was a whole different world.

getting back to being an old fart I don't know what to do I love decorum and I love some of the old rules that were stupid but I see guys in a fancy restaurant a baseball cap on and I just I'm it's hard for me not to

it's hard for me not to say something but I just think come on the way people dress at the airport the way people dress to go to the theater I really like decorum and it's fun if people would just give in to it a little bit it's fun to get dressed up I agree but again this is one of those they're going to say old ford's well you know the other thing when I was growing up was it was pretty cool that um they were kind of fighting words I went to a hippie

school Goddard college remember Goddard up in Vermont I do not no rules no rules no rules no grades no tests the only thing you had to do is pay tuition that was ahead of its time it was way ahead of it that's where i met dave dave mammott really yeah and stephen shachter yeah and interestingly he went there yeah david mammott went there yeah fuck half the people dropped out after one semester they couldn't take it they needed they couldn't take it they needed structure wow they couldn't take it they thought they wanted it and they And that's why we had such a great time. Here comes Dave Mamet, and we all dressed in military fatigues.

I don't know why it was, but the Vietnam War was going on, and Dave dressed in that stuff, but his were pressed and tailored. He looked sharp. He was something. He was so great. And he goes into this hippie school, and he says, you can't be late for class. And that was like saying, you have to paint your face purple to get in my class. what do you mean became what and he would lock the door and then he started

locking the row five minutes before the class saying if you think you're gonna get here or on the dot and be ready to work you're full of shit I don't want you in my class but boy he changed all of our lives right in the middle of the most liberal school that ever existed Goddard went the way of the dodo bird it doesn't exist anymore so no rules no except you have to be on time he could set his own rules but the school didn't have any rules the way you got a degree was you spent three years there and then you wrote a senior study and it could be anything Johnny Katz went there and he turned in his boots and he got a degree

boots his boots I don't get it and nobody had the courage it got her to say I don't get it they would go, hmm. It didn't last long, but it was great, because Dave said, let's study theater. And we just did theater all day, every day, sometimes all day and all night. The classes would go on interminably. But it sounds like you missed out on an education

that might have given you a more ecumenical background in the kind of things when I went to college. I'm a functioning idiot. I don't know anything. Really? Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm glad I went to where I went, and I'm glad they did to me what they did.

Right. Because I had a terrible time. Never got laid. It was cold, awful, competitive, but they did stick the information in my fucking head. So thank you, Cornell University. I don't like you, but I have to admit you did the basic thing I was there. for I to have you do. Well, thank you, Goddard College, because I did get laid.

And I also, I also, well, I just got laid, really. That's, oh, I got high a lot. Right. And I got, did I mention I got laid? You did, and I'm still mad about it. Oh, my God, that place was so crazy. It was glorious. Free love, do you mean kind of thing?

And then my dad came out and he said, I'm not paying for this. What are you doing? But this is post Woodstock. Just barely. Barely. Barely put. I went there, Woodstock was 68.

69. 69. I went there in 70. So why do you think 68, no, I agree. I could tell you a lot of great songs that came out in 1968 was the peak. Hey, Jude came out in 1968, heard it through the grapevine, came out in 1968. Oh, a lot of great songs. A lot of great songs, Lady Madonna.

What? Fabulous songs. Yeah, fabulous songs. But the kids today, of course they had to get their own. Now, I don't understand it because it sounds to me very lacking of energy. A lot of their songs, a lot of their songs sounds to me like this. Boo-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b. Okay.

You're getting old farts a bad name. No, no. I mean, a lot of songs sound like that. I know. They're just like, they just don't have a lot of energy. And I feel like that captures their vibe. But that's their vibe. That's what I'm saying.

Like, I don't think it's better or worse. I don't expect us to appreciate it. But I'm not going to judge it as worse because I'm not of that generation. And that speaks to them. That captures music obviously is something that reaches us on. such a prime audio level right that it's such a reflection of what's going on and it but it but it's beneath the intellectual level so if that's if that is what hits them that blah blah blah blah well you know everybody says they don't make movies

like they used to and yeah they do yeah they do and I think the truth of the matter is you can go back since we've been making movies and every year there was there were two that were really good and maybe you've made some great ones that were like but if you go to any particular year i'm saying the vast majority of them are not the graph majority of any art form is shit including books but year to year is what i'm saying most books are shit just because you read just because you go to bards and nobles and buy by a cat calendar doesn't mean you're a reader you know if you read self-help nonsense and romance that's trash you're so what you're reading it's still bullshit. It better watch

a great movie than read a shitty book. Well, sure. Would you not agree? Yeah. I mean, like the cooler, I think is a great movie, because it's about something and it's a character study. It's not going to make a trillion dollars. It has no

superheroes shooting rays out of the end of their fingers. It's just great, because it's about humans. And they still make those movies. I just watched... Every year, there's a couple of them.

Every year. Just when we watch Green Book. Great movie. Great movie. That the woke shit on. It wasn't liberal enough for them. I know. Because it was...

Because it was directed by a white guy. I mean, it's exactly what 10 years ago... I don't feel like that criticism lasted long. I think the movie was. But it was real. It was real. And it was in the New York Times. Yeah.

Which is, you know, kind of important. Well, that's one of the things. somebody has an idea it's everywhere instantly there's no vetting process anymore you couldn't come up with the more beautiful movie that was you're in line with liberal thinking yeah you know i mean there's told a true story hello and told a true story yeah and made you cry yeah in the best kind of way you know laugh and cry they were both brilliant performances and but yeah they still they do still they do still make those movies. Oh, sure. They just don't make many of them. Well, they never did. There's

three or four each year, maybe only two. And it's been the same forever. No, I think it was much better. Every once in a while. In the 70s, come on. No, a lot of them are trash. Look at my daughter's, my daughter, Sophia, is an actor. And she said, Pop, can we watch movies? And I went back to those 70 movies, 70s movies that I thought so much about. Most of them didn't hold up. Oh, come on. than Christmas oh slow slow man that's how I think of Christmas too that's hysterical but but okay you know like Hitchcock slow you're right a lot of stuff does not hold up that is so true 70s movies the good ones three days of the condor that's my just watched it there's three or

four in every any given year and they're great yeah yeah yeah yeah maybe that's true yeah yeah yeah Strange Love, that holds up. Strange Love, what's that? Dr. Strange Love. Oh, Dr. Strange Love. That holds up. That's Kubrick. But I said, wait till you see, airplane.

I just re-watched it. Totally holds up. No, the jokes do, but there's a lot of space between the jokes. There's not a lot of space between the jokes. That's the whole point of the movie. Well, there's a lot of bad jokes between the good jokes. When was the last time you saw it? With my daughters a couple of years ago.

Oh, I just watched it. you liked it loved it I thought it totally helped I will still quote it until my dying day that and spinal tap it's just one joke after I know and they're very funny

and some of them are very out there they're very edgy yeah you know I mean it was a little before political correctness here's something that I think is interesting movies when well when we grew up were so slow

so slow the storytelling And then MTV came along, and all the movies started going, bum, boom, boom, boom. Everything went boom, boom. I've been going to Sundance a lot, and I've been seeing a lot of young people's films. They've slowed way down the 20-year-olds. Really? They've slowed down the pace of their storytelling, and they're just fine with it. And what are...

I'm going, pick it up, pick it up. Tell me what happens next. What do you think that's why? I don't know why, but I think it's interesting, and I think it's significant, because we say people in their 20s, they've got an attention span of a flea. It can only be more than, I do stuff on the internet. It can only be two minutes, a minute and a half, and they'll stop.

And I keep saying, who made this up? It's not true. If it's good, they'll watch. And I still believe that. Maybe. I hope. That'd be great. I mean, there's so much crap.

I mean, you just scroll by. Yeah, I just don't think. I think the brains have been rewired, literally rewired. I mean, this is the thesis of Jonathan Haidt with his book that's, you know, the attention deficit or whatever it is. And it says big thing, but a lot of people have certainly been commenting on it that, you know, we just entered into this new era with the smartphone and social media and scrolling, replacing reading. And we just didn't care where it was taking people. And it didn't take them to a good place.

So there may be a marginal group of people who are still interested in the long form. I wouldn't count on it. I definitely would not count on people going back to reading books. They just don't know what a book is and it's just in... My daughters read. Really? A whole book? Yeah.

Like a real book? Sophia devours. Like Moby Dick or some shit? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Devours them. Good. But I think you're right. I got to say when we, you know, when we had these conversations, you know that guy, the guy, hold on, and then we got it. We got the guy. You know, in 1873, when the blah, blah, blah, it was no, no, that wasn't until the 90s.

Right. Well, it was 1874. I stand corrected. Right. Well, I love that. I do too. That's the good. Siri. Yeah, that's the good part of it. Where do I live? The good part of it is that you have that information on, at your fingertips. The bad part of it is, yeah, they know that happened in 1874. They have no context for it. No. Because they didn't read a book about it. They didn't have a survey course about it. That's not what colleges want to teach anymore.

So they don't really know how to place it in time and space. You ever play celebrity, that game celebrity? No, what is it? Everybody comes up with 10 famous names, and you put them in a base, and then you have teams and you pick one out. This was the father of our country,

George Washington. This was the guy whose name was like a doll and he played baseball and he had a lot of Babe Ruth. There is such a dividing line between people our age and people who are in their 30s or 40s.

They don't know anything about... They don't know anything. And we don't know anything about pop culture. Stuff which is just ubiquitous, but I don't know it. Well, I don't know who the TikTok stars are. That's true.

But that's almost like 14-year-olds, not even 25-year-olds. I know more about their culture than they know about things they should know. Well, they should know, yes. I mean, I know when World War II was and what it meant for the world, and they have no clue when it happened,

who was involved, why it matters. That's a little more important than me not knowing, you know, bad bunny. Maybe it's not too late. I, as I told you, didn't get an education. But I found that stuff out and maybe there's, maybe people will find that out. I don't have great hope for that, but I don't have great hope for the future. I feel like we were very lucky to be born at the time we were born because, don't you think? Don't you think?

I mean, let's say we all get basically around 80 years. Hopefully, AI will come along and will be eternal. Okay, great. But say that. The ones we got, it was like post-rely hard times, like the Depression in World War II. But before the shit really hit the fan with turning into an autocracy, global warming, maybe AI robots taking over and killing.

Like, I just don't have a great feeling about the next 10 years. I could be wrong, but I just feel like we had a... I'm scared. I don't know what kind of world I'm going to turn over to my daughters. There ain't no... I mean, the job market, and it's not political. It's gravity, man. There's a lot of us.

It's technology. AI. AI is going to do every job. Yeah. Almost every job. This thing came out that there isn't a profession out there, that you couldn't replace at least 20 or 30% of the workforce right now. And they're already doing it.

Yeah. They're already doing it. I mean, what you can't... And of course they are. You can't not do it. Yeah. What you can't replace are grave diggers. That's it.

This grave digger. All right. Yeah. Well... This has been swell. So much fun. I'm glad I got to know you. I always wanted to.

I always loved your work, and I thought you'd be fun to sit and talk to, and I wasn't wrong. Right back at you. I love what you do, and I have for many, many years. May I keep this just in case I need to feel warm and fuzzy here? Okay, you miss the coolest part. Oh. And do you have anything to plug? Are you in a movie coming up that we should be aware of?

Yeah. Check it out. Is that hip? Wow. Where's the camera? There's cameras everywhere. What? I'm standing in Woody Creek.

How'd you get Timothy Shalome to do your liquor ad for you? We're constantly mistaken for each other. Yes, I want you to have that. Thank you. I've got a great movie out there called Train Dreams.

Train Dreams. Yeah, it's about loggers in the turn of the century 1910 or something like that. It was at Sundance and just killed Netflix bought it. I saw it up at Toronto. It's a beautiful, beautiful film.

And I got, I'm in the new Running Man. That was a hit. Running Man? Yeah, the shorts. And I remember the original. And my daughter, Sophia, is an actor, and she did this thing, a teen movie. She's one of the stars, and it's called Brian. And she talked me into doing a scene.

And I saw it, it's really delightful. And I did a billion Indies. One about this kid that got burned who was supposed to die and he didn't and it's called Soul on Fire. I'm going to do that. I did a lot of films and now I've got to

publicize them. Wow. I'm still working. I was just going to say it's great that they I could see why. I mean, who's going to do that kind of part better than you? Oh, and Barry the lead.

You're a football guy? Yeah. It's called The Land, as in Cleveland, and it's about the Browns. Oh. And it's sort of fictionalized. It's a series, and we'll start in October, and I play the owner. Great scripts. I've read four of the ten we're going to do.

They're really good. Oh. So you're still making it? No, I'll start in October. Oh. I'll be in L.A. now. I live in the creek. The Browns, you know, have quite a storied history.

A sports fan knows that Paul Browns founded the team. But, you know, they've been star-struck with, as far as success, you know. I mean, star-crossed, not star-struck. And like my Mets very much. No shame in that. I'm a coach fan. Oh, really? I started my career because of Dave in Chicago, and I lived in Wrigleyville.

It was great. Day of the Game tickets. I was there when they won the series in the town lost its mind. Hadn't been for a hundred and eight years. It was really crazy. All right, well, we will look for all your movies. Thanks. Thank you for the liquor. I'm glad you liked that.

Thank you, pal. Keep in touch. Yeah, I promise I will. You live close? Yeah. Oh, no, you don't. The way I drove here, but yes, I do.