Coffeez with Joe Shalaby - Get an Edge with Tom Ahles | Coffeez for Closers with Joe Shalaby Ep. 15

Episode Date: April 19, 2024

This Week on Coffeez for Closers: Tom AhlesJoin us for an electrifying new episode of "Coffeez for Closers" where we welcome the distinguished Tom Ahles, the Broker Owner of Edge Home Finance. Tom brings to the table over two decades of experience in the financial services sector, including a successful tenure as the co-founder of Edge Home Finance. Under his guidance, the company has soared to new heights, achieving over $2.8 billion in originations and securing a place in the top 10 AIME Broker Rankings.🔹 About Tom Ahles:Tom Ahles is a beacon of innovation and leadership in the real estate and finance industries. His journey includes:🚀 Experienced Leader: Steering Edge Home Finance to become a high-volume brokerage, setting new industry benchmarks.💼 Mortgage Expertise: With over 20 years of experience, Tom has a deep understanding of the market, providing personalized mortgage solutions that have helped countless families.🏠 Homeownership Advocate: Dedicated to making the dream of homeownership a reality for American families, through ethical lending and integrity.💡 Dynamic Entrepreneur: Recognized among the top 100 mortgage brokers by the Scotsman Guide in 2021, Tom exemplifies entrepreneurial spirit and commitment to excellence.🎙 What's on the Agenda:Unveiling Tom’s strategies and insights that have led Edge Home Finance to remarkable success.Delving into the importance of ethical practices and integrity in the mortgage lending process.Exploring innovative solutions for modern challenges in achieving homeownership.Gear up for a session filled with inspiring stories, innovative strategies, and insightful discussions on the future of homeownership and finance with Tom Ahles.👉 Hit Subscribe!Don't miss this insightful episode with Tom Ahles on "Coffeez for Closers." Subscribe now and join our community for more inspiring stories and strategies from leading entrepreneurs in the finance sector.#TomAhles #HomeFinanceInnovation #EdgeHomeFinance #Entrepreneurship #Homeownership #CoffeezForClosersAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

What's up, everybody. Welcome to another episodes of coffees for closers, coffees on tour. Today we welcome Mr. Tom Hollis. He is the founder and owner of Edge Home Finance, one of the biggest mortgage companies in the nation. He's also the president of AIM Growth. Tom is an absolute powerhouse in the mortgage industry.

A huge inspiration to tens of thousands of mortgage professionals. We welcome Mr. Tom Ellis. Thanks, Tom, for being here today. Thanks, Joe. I love the hustle, even as you know, you say you're on tour today, but we were here, we're here for a mastermind event, right? And watching how you just hustle and not, you know, not take it. There's a lot of us that had today kind of off. But you're here making it happen. I think that's one thing where you and I just have always had a good, good relationship, knowing that we're both, we're both driven to try to do better. We're doing yesterday and just season the moment, right? And trying to make the most of it. So glad to be here. You know, Tom, I always say this, and I say this even when we're recruiting other people. I say, you know, Tom's my boy, and he's an inspiration to me. And we were just saying this, like, make a decision. Yeah.

Go there, go here. You're working with the best of the best. And I use your analogy now and as an inspiration to even start this podcast. You know, when people are making a decision to go to the best opportunity possible and they're betting their life on it, what are they looking at? They're looking at who's steering the ship. Yep. And I learned that concept actually from you. Like, you know, people are going to study their leaders.

I use that same analogy that you say. And it's very applicable, especially at our level. And it is a perpetual reminder for me that I just have to be the best captain that exists. 100% at all times. Yeah. I mean, for us in our industry, we're all doing the same thing, right? I mean, if you boil it down to the basics, we are. in the business is selling money, right? And no matter what company you work for, I like to call

our businesses, and we're at the level of, like, if I relate it to like Formula One, we're all have the same vehicle, right? It's, uh, when you get into that level of racing or that competition, everything is basically the same. Maybe a little advantage here. One guy might have, uh, this different type of tire compared to the other one. But the reality is the core fundamentals of it, We do the same thing. And when you get to that level, really, it's like, what is going to be a deciding factor for a lot of people? And I think it's alignment on not only leadership style, but longevity. You know, you look, and I think you and I are close to the same age where a lot of people,

if they're looking at coming and joining a company and putting their livelihood at risk with attaching that brand to themselves personally, is this another two-year move? Is it a three-year move? we've seen so many companies go out of business or be acquired or that are in it for the short-term haul that I think a lot of owners miss that, right? And it's cool to see that you've adopted it and are really like, hey, here's a good reason. Yes, e-mortgage is a great company. There's plenty of good companies selling money. That's the basics of it.

But the reality is those that are going to align with you, align with you as a leader. They know, like, I've met a ton of people that work for you. The last time I was out at UWM, it was a success track. I met a guy there and FaceTimemed with you. I said hello. And he was like, yeah, work for time. I'm like, awesome, you know. And you can just tell you create raving fans because people are either going to know, like and trust you,

whether it's on, you know, coming up in this industry for both of us on a sales level as you're selling to real estate agents. You know, your job is to get people to know like and trust you. As a leader in your own organization, it's the same thing, right? we have to pivot continuously to like from selling loans to selling employment to selling brand right and I think once you get to the larger size of where you guys are at where some of the other people that were out here to share and collaborate with it's really one of the biggest key factors like what is your brand right and Desmond hit on it yesterday right if somebody doesn't align with your values and who you are then don't hire like it's that simple you want people that are going to like no

Like, like love and trust who you are, right? So. And that's where we really align, Tom. That's where, like, you know, I say this all the time. At our level, you know, you're one of my favorites, right? Like, and we continue to fortify that bond week after week with our mindset, with ideology, with, you know, who we are as men, who we are as leaders. And I really, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart, I really truly appreciate this relationship.

and I pray we continue to foster it and we go deeper in our bond and unity. I like to start the podcast off with a very simple question. How do you start your morning routine? You know, so my morning routine is kind of boring, but it's the same every day. And it's something that, one, my wife is a part of my morning routine, even though she's not awake. So I really like I always make sure to give her before I go upstairs because right now we're remodeling our house. So we're sleeping in the basement. So when I wake up, I give my wife a kiss, wish her, you know, wish her good, you know, hope you have a great day.

I go upstairs. She makes coffee. Like she already has it prepared for me. She won't let me use the cured cups because she, the plastic's going to kill the environment wherever it is. Like I don't care. If I can't have a curate, well, she makes my coffee for me, right? So, but when she has my coffee ready, she always has a, she'll have a Bible verse and normally a note for me every day. So, and a lot of it's typically to get my mindset right.

So I wake up with really direct and into a point of one, being grateful for what I have. Two, then understanding that, you know, every day is a blessing and being thankful for where I'm at at that moment, right? And even sometimes I stop and I try to do like maybe five minutes of meditation. I'd like to say 15 or 20, but it never happens because I'm always ready to go. It's hard for me. And I think for a lot of us to just sit and have time for meditation. But I only do five minutes every morning. So I have a cup of coffee and just reflect on that Bible verse.

Yeah. She hand writes it. So she has these booklets, right? And it's dated for every day. So, and she's probably like 90s. Jesus calling type of booklet. Yeah, it's, you know, and a lot of it's relation to life, right? I mean, I don't care what I don't necessarily, not to get too personal, but that's what

these normally are. I don't necessarily align with one certain type of spirituality. I believe in doing good for others, and I believe that there's a higher power, right? So to me, a lot of the messaging is, relatable to everyday life, right? Like, whether sometimes it's relationship with my wife, sometimes it's relationship with my team, sometimes it's relationship with myself, right?

Like, but there's always a good note there to get me on the right mindset for the day. So probably one of the, I would say my two happiest moments every day is when I wake up and I go to sleep, right? There's lots of joys in between, but those are, you know, waking up every day, having that cup of coffee, having five minutes to reflect on what my message for the day is and how to implement it. And your day starts and as soon as your feet hit that ground from that bed and after probably the meditation, it's just like, boom, gone.

Yeah. So it's pretty cool though. I mean, my office is, it's not that far away from my house, but it takes me like 17 minutes to get there because they got to wind around the lake. And I call my mom. So every morning I call my mom on the way to work. And we have our 17-minute talk every day, which is nice. It's a good way for her and I to connect. Yeah. And it's one of those habits that I've gotten into that I'm really thankful for. Because if not, it's hard. Relationships require effort.

And especially with family, it's very easy to not have time, right? And my mom's getting older. Still doing well right now healthy. but none of us ever make it out of this alive. So I know there's going to be a time where I'm not going to have that 17 minutes call instead of listening to music or, you know, turning on the radio and listening to Talk Radio or even listen to a podcast for that 17 minutes. By right now, I spend that 17 minutes from when I drive.

I literally get in my car to when I get to my office. I talk to my mom every morning. I love that, Tom. And you know what? Honestly, I do the same thing. When I drive every single morning, I call. my mom and it's like so refreshing because whatever I'm dealing with at the house could be screaming kids and then I'm like my mom picked up yeah yeah she's like always my biggest advocate

whatever craziness I just dealt with like that's it mine is mine is to you I mean I've always uh there was a period of my life in my early 20s to where like when you're out living life and you're not thinking about it to where we I'd go months without talking to my mom so yeah you know now that I've gotten older I've kind of set routines up to make sure that the relationships that are important to me, that they're, I'm watering that grass, so to speak. Like, even my brother, my brother and I, he's seven years, yeah, seven years older than me, but lives in a different state. And it's one of those things to where, like, if we don't make an effort, well, we won't talk.

Even though, like, we have no issues. So, like, our time is Saturday morning, right? He was a mailman, postal, postal man. And he, every Saturday, we have a time. I know I'm getting a call from him. And he calls me, which is cool. So we always have that time. So it's been nice to have that routine to where if you're going to have relationships in life,

you have to invest into them, right? That's awesome. So let me ask you this. We're going to dive deep into your story. So how did you get started in the mortgage industry? Because probably wasn't something you wanted to do after college football. No, that's definitely true. And, you know, I got into the mortgage industry,

2001. I was, before that, I was in, I ran nightclubs, right? So it was an industry to where I would see people coming in and those that were spending, you know, fair amount of money. You're buying bottle service or, you know, having a good time, dress nice. And it was attractive, right? To me, when I looked at like, okay, what do these guys do? You know, we grew up watching movies to where you see stockbrokers and Jerry McGuire's of like, to me, that's always been. exciting. Like I've always liked the aspect of, you know, even the boiler room movies. Like, all of those still to this day, if I had a genre of type of movie I love, those movies just get me going, right? So there was a gentleman that, uh, that I met who owned, uh, like

retail branch of a company called Nova Star. And I got sick of doing the nightclub deal. I really, because I was traveling all the time. Um, I would live in a different city for about two months at a time, right? And I ended up in Minneapolis, you know, 2000, it was, you know, 2000, New Year's Eve, 2000. And then I was there 2001. And I just didn't want to travel as much anymore. I spent, you know, three years literally in hotels every, I didn't have a home address at that point. I was still using my home address. Didn't have a place and was tired of traveling. We wanted to try something new. So, um, tried it. to work at Nova Star showed up, got, you know, there was no requirements at that point other than

here's a list and call people. We sell money. And I'm like, this is great. You know, all I have to do is sell money and you can make a percentage of what you're selling that money for and they need the money. Like, this is perfect. So that's how I got into it. I started to diversify early in the industry and tried to find niches, right? To me, I still. think this carries true today for a lot of originators when I coach my own team members and I'll say, hey, what are you focused on? Well, I focus on, you know, conventional financing. Like, that's not a niche, right? Like, you have to, in my opinion, you look at two of the most successful originators. Most of them have a niche that they focus on, whether it's VA or I focus on fix and

flip or I'm a manual underwrite specialist. I did a I didn't interview with a gal Ashley Bedford. She works for a different company, apply, I think. But she like her story, like even sparked that remembering that part with me. Like if you look at who are your most successful team members are, they normally have a niche. So I started I started with a niche of doing investor loans for the people that I was connected with prior in the industry. It was in nightclubs. They how can I help you buy an investment property? And we'd find people that were in foreclosure, that had a lot of equity in their house,

and they were to the point where they were about to lose that equity unless they could sell the home or find somebody to finance them. So we would come in, buy the house. I'd bring my investor in, they'd buy it, they'd sell it to them on a contract for deed. There's a win-win situation. And then that was my start, right? At that point, I kind of fell in love

fell in love with the industry, as I am today. Yeah, I love it. But what I want to ask you, and I'm sure other people are curious about this, and many probably don't know because I know a little bit about your story, but you weren't just running nightclubs. You were running all the nightclubs at a corporate level, making an insane amount of money as a W-2ed wage earner. Yeah. So you had a really cush job that people would probably kill for.

You know, it's like you had this really great job, a lot of fun, making a ton of money on a managing the books for, you know, the biggest company. We had 38 clubs all over the country. So, I mean, it was, I worked my way up through the rankings on that. I didn't go to, I didn't go to college. You mentioned playing college football. I actually didn't play college football. I played semi-pro because I skipped, right?

I just, I won. I grew up, we grew up, I grew up, I grew up, I grew up poor, right? And we didn't have health insurance. So my, my mom was like, you can play. sports, but you can't play football because you can get injured. We don't have health insurance. But I always wanted to. You know, I was bigger than most of the kids in school. Wanted to play it, but never could. So anyways, I got into right out of high school. While I was still in high school, I was working for that company and then just, you know,

progressed pretty quickly within that company because I loved it, right? It's like most of the time when you really enjoy what you're doing, it's not like you're working, right? To say like, just like you and I doing this now. Some people would be like, oh, man, you did that when you were on vacation? Like, we enjoy this kind of. That's the part where we're off a little bit. Make my vacation better. That's it.

I love it. So, you know, for me making that transition, it was more, I don't want to say I got bored with it. But that life can get old quickly, right? The partying and being in that environment, it was hard for me in my early 20s to separate. The business aspect and the pleasure aspect of it because, you know, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, you're out prospecting and looking at other establishments to see what is working. What are the newer things? But then you're always out in that industry. So it was good to take a, I wanted to do something different, right?

I wanted to get into something different that would bring me satisfaction, right? So what sparked the leap of faith that you're going to make zero dollars for the foreseeable future? maybe forever. Yeah. I mean, I've always had that mindset. Like, you look at people that take a salary job. I would never do that. I just don't.

You're basically admitting that that's all that you're worth. And to me, that just doesn't exist, right? If I have the choice of, okay, I could take a job today, they'll give me a $5 million salary. Or you could take something, and then you're capped. You're never going to get any higher than that. Now, granted, I may, if, somebody offered me a $5 million salary, maybe different.

I'd be a little high. But my point is, like, I really, I like betting on myself, right? I think when you look at most entrepreneurs and most successful business owners, and we went over this yesterday, there's risk involved. And you have to take risk in order to achieve things that others won't, right? One of my coaches early on were like, hey, you have to do today what others won't so you can have tomorrow what others can't. And I always stuck with me like, okay, well, why would it, you know, my brother's a perfect example.

Love him. But he's a mailman. He's been consistent in his entire life. He's going to have a great retirement. But he also maybe is not going to have some of the fun things that I've been able to have or achieve because of that. And that's fine. There's different roads people take based on their personality. For me, I don't want to be capped.

I want to keep looking at what can I do that's even far. bigger than I've ever accomplished yet to this point and keep pushing for that. Tom, you know, you're a great man of character and you're an incredibly hard worker. What is it that drives you to be this way? You know, I've been asked that before and I don't have a set answer other than I've always been that way, right? I think from the earliest memory that I have, I started working when I was about 11, right? I remember my first job I was shoveling shoveling horse shit, really is what it was. I was like cleaning horse holes. And then I got into bailing hay. And then I was working at a, you know, I've just always had that desire to,

back then it was to make money. But the reality is now it's more like to make success, right? Money will always follow success. So to me, it's just I enjoy. it. Like, what drives people to sit around and play video games for 14 hours a day? They obviously enjoy it, you know? I don't enjoy that. I enjoy, like, going out and creating and playing, like, being active in my life almost like it was a video game in a sense, you know? Like, how do I, how do I continue to level up, right? And I've always just enjoyed it. It's not, it's not work to me. I really, I don't know how to say it besides, like, people I ask all the time, well, you're stop now when you like are you going to retire when you're 50 no you know i'm going to go i'm going to keep

going until i'm not having fun anymore and i don't think that's going to stop so you just look this work ethic you're saying that you have right now you're just it was ingrained in you yeah yeah i think so i think obviously there's always some part and i would say as i've gotten older therapies probably helped learn some of these things where like familial um where's like some of this stuff comes from i think it was my mom always worked hard. My grandfather always worked hard. I just saw it to where it was like, if you want something, you have to get it, right? Nobody's giving you, nobody's going to give you anything. And truthfully, I wouldn't want it if it was given to me anyways. I've had friends that grew up and had things given to them. And now they lack the ability to go out and hunt themselves,

right? It's like almost a biblical verse of, you know, give a man a fish, he'll eat for that day. teach him how to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime. To me, I've just always enjoyed, I've always enjoyed working. I see a lot of commonality in people like you and me with, with, you know, how we raise our families and, you know, what are you doing right now to instill that same work ethic for your daughter? Yeah, good question. And I got to tell you, I'm, I am beyond impressed with her because this just happened like maybe a week. ago, two weeks ago, she's 14 and eighth grade, right? So in full time in sports, she plays competitive soccer, does good in school, has a good friend group, live in life. Well, she asked

me maybe two, three weeks ago, she's like, hey, I want to get a job. And I'm like, okay, well, and she went on and she applied to like three different places. Now on her own, like 14, eighth grade. And nowadays, with a lot of the massive corporations, especially at jobs that are going to hire a 14-year-old, right? You get like the Chick-fil-A or the McDonald's or these different types of places that will hire younger kids. Their interview process, a lot of it's done through AI now, right? They will ask questions of, hey, if a customer order something and it's not available, how would you handle it? And they make you record your answers. So I got to watch her do this, right?

which was the coolest thing ever. And she got the job. So she's working now. Wow. Yeah, at McDonald's, which for me, I would say. And it's probably 20 bucks an hour,

you know? It's kind of crazy. But she's like, hey, like, it's cool, like watching her, like setting up her,

you know, I-9, like filling out all of her paperwork, asking questions that a lot of times you don't even think of a parent to talk. Like, what is that?

What are exemptions? Like, so there's been so many new experiences. with her with even getting this job, that it's just been cool to see and not have an ego attached to it, right? Because even for myself as a teenager, I don't think I would have ever worked at McDonald's.

I mean, just to be transparent. I didn't mind working hard, but I wouldn't have worked at a fast feed plate. She doesn't care. Like, this is a great opportunity. I'm going to make some money. I want to be able to, whenever she wants to buy something big,

She's always like, well, I'll pay for half. You pay for the other. And it was a jig. She wants this new jet ski this year. So I'm like, okay, you know, Jet ski isn't quite McDonald's money here. You're going to, well, I'm going to work as hard as I can to come up with it. And if I do, will you meet me there? And I'm like, you know, it's hard to say no.

She's a damn good negotiator. And it's been pretty exciting, though, to watch her at 14, go out, get a job without us asking her to, without even wanting her to be honest with you. I would rather her at that age day focus more on school and sports. But, you know, it's two hours, you know, here and there in between her activities. And I think it's a good thing. So as much as I'm trying to instill it into her, I think the, you know, for a lot of us, like you only have so much time to spend with the people in your company, yet they're always watching you, right?

People are going to judge you inform opinions on you based on action. rather than talking about it or trying to, you know, you can coach or instill in people as much as you want. But a good coach is somebody who's also sometimes a really good player. So to me, it's more like for both my wife and I, like, how do we be the best parents we can be? How can we be the best examples of what a healthy relationship looks like? How can I be the best, you know, I consider myself an employee to my team members. How can I be their biggest support person? How can I?

And she sees that, right? And I think more than me trying to instill it and telling her things like, this is how you do it, I think you got to live it. And if you're living it, that's why you see people like, we're here with Matt Isbio this week, right? How did he become in his brother? Like, that doesn't just happen. They obviously watch what their, his, what Jeff, their dad did to be able to form those habits, right?

So for me, it's like always just trying to be the best version of myself. And I think that trickles down. You know, your work ethic, your grind, who you've become, the success you've had, amazing. Who do you think has been your greatest mentor in your life? Oh, I've had some good ones, right? You know, one, I would say my mom, just because she always, as a single mom, there was never, there was never ever. that we didn't have what we needed, right? It didn't make a difference.

Like she worked regardless of what was needed. So I think from a core fundamental, that aspect, my mother was, and I've had a lot of good mentors throughout, right? I still, to this day, I mean, I meet people all the time to where I try to put myself to where I'll say I'm the dumbest person in the room, right? I want to learn from those around me that have the intelligence, you know? I think I have a lot of good street sense, but I didn't go to college. So there are some things to where I'm probably at a disadvantage from somebody that maybe did go and that has a master's degree and is incredibly intelligent.

Yet it doesn't always relate to, you know, doesn't necessarily relate to overall intelligence. So I guess my point is I've had a lot, the biggest one being my mother, second one, my stepfather, you know, my mom remarried. And he, same way. He is a third generation business owner with the company they've owned to where I watched his work ethic. And sometimes the best mentors, and I think I learned this from Renee, it's like you're either a lighthouse or you're a foghorn. Sometimes I learn more by watching other people do things wrong, right? It's like a reverse mentorship aspect. Like I see what you're doing.

And I don't ever want to be in that position. But, yeah, outside of that, I would say, I try to take as much as I can from those around me that work. And I'm big on collaboration, right? I don't like the scarcity mindset where, I mean, I think that's probably been one of the biggest reasons you and I get along so well. Like we don't, like, it doesn't really, if somebody wants to come or like, you've seen people in our industry like get pissed.

Like, wait, you're, you left me to go to there. Don't ever talk to me again. You're like, how could you ever do? Like, I don't care. If that's where you feel comfortable, then do well. I want to see you do well. Yeah, that's my answer to that one. You run a massive organization, you know, 1,000, is it 1,100 loan officers?

Yeah, we got about 1,100 loan officers. It's about 1,350 total employees. 1,350 total employees. I mean, you know, you have, it's massive. And one of the biggest in the country, building an organization of that size, that caliber, what would you say are some notable obstacles that you face? in the initial build and you know some current obstacles yeah you know I think risk right anytime with with as you grow the small details magnify tremendously you know when you look and

say okay well if you're making a decision that's going to be a couple hundred dollars if you're at a five-person company and it's a couple hundred dollars per employee yeah $1,500, it's manageable. You get to the size to where the small details as you grow are so important to just have the oversight on, to really know and be involved in the business from every aspect. I would say I'm thankful I've had my partner that we work closely together to where we're both just, we're kind of the same way obsessed, right? Like we're obsessed with what the business is and how we cannot.

only make it better, but that the longevity is there. And I think both of us came from the spot to where I had a company prior and so did he, where we both lost everything, right? 2008, the collapse happened and I was just naive, right? That was really the only word I could use to where you look back on it. We were having 15 to 20% appreciation a year, right? Like how long can that go on for it? But for us, it's like, yeah, well, it'll slow down.

Nobody really, I don't say nobody, I didn't think it was going to go to where we'd see negative 30, 40% home values and the industry just shut down and wasn't prepared. So I think right now looking at the company as it sits, it's more always looking farther ahead than what I was used to planning. Normally I'm just focused on today and how I ran the business prior is like, what am I doing today? Now it's five years from now. Where are we, where are our goals? What are we going to be? What are the things that can affect us the most, right? In our industry, it could be EPOs.

It could be web security. It could be, I mean, there's all of those risks. And it's really trying to make sure that you are not being naive or blind to them. Because the biggest mistake that I ever made was like even 2008, just thinking that, it was going to continue with subprime mortgages. Like, I wasn't ahead of the game and having my FHA approval to be able to do it. I wasn't, I wasn't prepared. So to me, it's like making sure that I'm prepared to weather storms that I know that are going to happen.

Right? In our industry, what, every 10 years? Well, we just went through a two-year storm, 2020, 2020, but those were your greatest years. That's it, right? I mean, that's when you took a storm and turned it into like a ride. Yeah. Well, I think that's where the majority of like the best companies in the country, like in the world, were created during times of adversity, right? I mean, those are, there's companies, of course, that when times are good, they get in and they run, but then they're, they're a flash in the pan, right?

They're going to be hot why the money is easy to grab and then they're gone. The companies that stick around that are really built, I would say for longevity and built to like massive scale are built during the worst times. So to me, watching what happened in 2008, I sat back and watched, like, well, wait a minute, there were still people buying houses in 2009 as soon as that market collapsed. It was probably one of the best times ever to buy. Yeah. As the prices were low. And what was I doing? Well, I was still suffering because I was only focused on, you know, refinance business and trying to get people.

Like, it was, I was just completely not plugged into what the future looked like because I was so focused on right now. What am I doing today? Like, what are we going to do today to get better? I still want to try to get better every day. But now it's more reverse engineering. You know, we've got AI coming up. We have, there's so many things to where, and this is where you and I end up talking for hours on a lot of this stuff. Like, what is coming down the line?

We know it's coming. How is it going to affect us, right? Is it going to cut 60% of the business because everything gets automated? Possibly. Well, if that's the case, then there's still 40% of the business out there. and even if it's manual underwrites and all things that require those types of touches, how do I be the very best then for that 40%? So it's like always looking ahead more now instead of just being so focused on the numbers today.

That's awesome. So I was going to actually ask you that question. What kind of trends are you going to, do you foresee in the future in the mortgage space? You know, personally, I mean, I kind of talk. on it. I do think that things will get automated a lot to where it's going to help us a ton in the next, you know, I'll say five to seven years, right, to where it's going to make people more efficient. It's going to make, and it's already happened, right? If you remember, and you've been in the industry, how long have you been in? 20 years as well. You know, Tom, I'm going to tell you our journeys. We started at the same time. Yeah, that's what I thought. Yeah. As well. So you remember, it was like back then you're getting, you know, you had reps coming in to price out things. You had to have documents, faxioners. You always had to wet sign documents with people. The process took probably 10 times longer minimum than what it takes today.

Right now it's like why we're sitting here, you and I probably both have an application that came in. Right. Like it just happens. And we sent out a couple thousand messages. That's what I made. Right. So it's like technology has made it to where we're much more efficient. And that's where margin compression has come in too.

Right. Because if, yeah, now we can close loans and, you know, five. days, 10 days, where before, it would damn near take five days to be able to go to somebody to fax the documents to you, to then find a bank because you have to fax them a pre-qual sheets. And now we're able to move a lot faster. We can do more business. You're more efficient. But it's like your time, if you're spending less time, then you're probably making less per transaction. We can do more transactions. So, you know, to me, I think the biggest change we'll see is more efficiency until there will be a phase that I think that they will, you know, it'll change a lot

to where I think a lot of our industry will go automated, right, from the factor of just like if you applied for a credit card today, like is there an underwriting, you know, period for it? It's automated for the most part. And I think that there will, I think that will come into play at some point where they've already tried it with day one certainty. and a lot of things from that aspect. But I think that'll take a big chunk of the business. And there will be companies that come out

that have automated day one certainty to where they can operate at a 30 basis points margin as a company. Yeah. And just do a ton of volume and kill it. But if that's 60%, there's still 40% on a market that's doing the kind of volume that the U.S. does in mortgage transactions, They're still, for as long as you and I are alive in this career, there's still going to be a lot of business to be had. I love that.

So I want to touch back on the fact that, you know, and I see this commonality in a lot of mega high achievers. Yeah, go ahead, brother. I just wouldn't see if I knew my water was. Okay. I see a commonality of mega high achievers is you said you grew up poor. I also grew up poor. And one thing I noticed is people grew up poor. end up, you know, they don't want to be poor anymore.

Yeah. You know, do you think that growing up poor was a catalyst for your success? I don't know. I mean, I have a brother and a sister and we don't have the same journeys, right? So I don't know. I really, I've looked at that before and see, you know, I would say no. Honestly, I don't think so because I didn't know I was poor, right? It's like when I looked back on it when I was in school, I didn't really know.

We had food. We had clothes. we had sheltered. To me and even what we consider poorer in the U.S., still we were wealthy beyond means to other places in the country that are living in huts. You know what I mean? Yeah.

So I don't know. I think it definitely gave me the ability to know that there is a lot more that I could have that we never had access to if I worked harder. Or I achieved things that maybe my, family wasn't able to achieve. But I don't know that it was necessary a catalyst. I think it would have been, if I would have had the ability and had, you know, like I hope to be for my daughter, give her resources that I didn't have access to, hopefully it'll make her even more successful than

what, than I was. So I don't necessarily think that's the case. Nice. Now, you know, after all this success that you've had, like you get up every morning. probably before Don, how do you continue to find that, that motivation, that zeal? Yeah. Just keep driving, keep pushing, keep getting better, keep dominating. I don't have to try. That's the thing. It's not, I think some people are just wired different, you know.

I don't necessarily, there's nothing to where I have to mentally make an effort to want to get up and have a good day. I think everybody has a definition. if they write down, like, what is a successful day for you? And we could ask, you know, could ask 100 people, and that definition is going to be different for everyone. To me, my job is to what I write down on my list of what is a successful day. I want to get 100% on my own, I'm the one that wrote the test, you know. So my definition of a successful day is the things that I know that as if I write my job,

then my task and the things that I want to accomplish are the things that. things that I know I want to achieve for that day, that's my goal. And I go to bed at night. If I did 100%, man, I sleep great. If I didn't, then I don't. And I feel like shit. So it's like, I don't know. Why ever sell yourself short, whether you're, you know, I don't think it matters what job you do. I still think if you lay out for yourself, what does a, what does a hundred percent look like in your day? And write that down. And if you've never done it, try it. Because to me, I think that's one of the things that's helped me a lot with, you know, identifying that. Like, what really makes me feel good in a day? Well, you know, gratitude, having a good day at work, achieving the things that I want to do,

socializing. You know, I still like to, I like people to where I like socialize to you. Sometimes that's a good day for me. If I know that I'm going to work on Fridays, I normally take a couple hours and try to go hang out with a group of either friends or do something that's not all work, right? Then good. If that's my goal today to be 100% on what I want, then I've dominated my day. Love that. Do you think that Edge has been like a big risk taker in the industry now, or have you guys stayed

pretty conservative? You know, it's very opinionated, right? There's a lot of people that would say that we have been. risk takers by even being in the broker channel or risk takers by, you know, do you, we don't get a lot of guidance, right? There's nobody that you can't call. We've had, we both have attorneys. We both have went through audits. We've both have had federal, you know, mingling, so to speak, of like, what you can and can't do. However, there isn't really anybody if you wanted to call and say, hey, you know what, I'm interested. We want to have a borrower page.

compensation plan and this is how he'd like to do it can you tell me if this is okay there isn't there's nobody that's gonna well you're gonna try to figure it out so that's kind of the hardest part to where I would say early on we try to do everything we could to make sure that we're taking calculated risk right that we're operating within the means of the law that we're offering a comp plan that complies with LO comp rules that we're offering you know a comp plan that doesn't include steering, that we're always looking. So I think, truthfully, not risky, but of course it's risky, right?

We're in business for ourselves. Some months you make nothing, some months you make money, some months you lose money. But overall, no, I think we've been consistent for 13 years doing the same thing with the same model, treating people the same way, and a lot of it has been organic, Right. The organic growth that we've had, there hasn't been a lot of risk, but more money, more problems, right? It's always going to be, you've had your share of it just like we do. You know, if you're doing the kind of business and volume that we both do, you're going to run into things that you don't have control over. Tommy, you juggle so much. You're the president of AIME growth. You're the owner of Edge Home Finance, you know, a thousand loan officers. You contribute to. aim on a daily basis giving feedback, meeting with brokers, helping them with their business, even though you do it for free as a volunteer, your father, you're a husband,

you're a servant, you've got other businesses. How do you do all that? What's your secret? There's no secret to it, right? We all have the same 24 hours in a day. It's like the same thing I learned from Matt. Matt's one that we and I both look up to he's key on it like if we both have 12 hours a day to dedicate to what checks that list off of us being 100% for our day what are you doing with it and so for me I just try to um I try to do the best that I can and enjoy it and if I don't enjoy it I don't do it like I like everything that I do like the part whether it's you know volunteering with aim or whether it's whether it's It's doing one of these.

Why do I do it? I like it. It's fun. I get a chance to talk with you and hear, you know, hopefully hear more on your story too at some point. The way I deal with it is because I like it. That's why. It's not a job. I love that.

And it's so true because you can get through it so easily if you just love what you do. You just juggle so much. And I really look up to you and I admire you, your good father, your good husband, your wife makes you coffee every day with the Bible verse like these are all very admirable traits you know and that I never really like I told you you know we talk frequently yeah but we never dive deep no no we never dive deep and I know for sure we never dove this deep no you know a couple last questions and I think this one applies to you like how are you at edge continuing to foster great talent because you got some of the most talented people in the country yeah how do you continue to foster that talent you know

So, one, I think it still comes to like, I like being on the front lines, right? So to me, I think there's two types of leadership. There's a few types of leadership, but I'll just say from my standpoint. You're either leading from behind and it's like there's a picture of this in my mind. Like you're the guy whipping the horse from behind or you're one of the horses in the front pulling. I'm one of the horses in the front pulling. I'm never going to tell one of my team members and do something that I'm not willing to do. And, you know, success breeds success, right?

When I have an originator, like I'll say, there's a guy that works for me, Sid Larson, right? Shout out to Sid, by the way, good kid. He was one of my interns, right? I would do a six-month intern for somebody that was new to the industry but wanted to try it. Finished, I think number three in my company last year. Now he's passing that on to somebody else. Now he's helping somebody else. That guy, watch him, and now he's helping somebody else.

I think, you know, when you can be successful and teach somebody else how to be successful, one, they're loyal to you. And then the next person that they do that with, they're loyal to. And we've been at this now, you know, with this company for 13 years. So over time, it's like pushing a snowball downhill. If you're consistent with what you're doing and you're leading, in the same way and you're putting people before profits in a lot of sense to where like when I do a six month internship with a guy that I literally will have sit at my desk for six months,

not really doing it to make, I mean, it doesn't turn the dial for me, so to speak, but it always works. And then you never know the effect that's going to have. Now looking back on it, like, that was a great idea. We've got a lot of people that have done that. And I can track back production from some of my most successful people that have done the same thing. A good leader is going to train the next good leader, right? And that's kind of the biggest, you know, I'll say aspect of how we've been able to cultivate having such, you know, high-level professionals. That's awesome. And, you know, people listening to this show and then they're trying to breed leaders, you know, I'm hoping that they immediately implement and

adopt whatever you're, you know, you're preaching here. A couple last questions And I mentioned this to you And I'm going to start asking this frequently Just because, you know It always helps us all get better and build character You know, we're all going to pass We're all going to meet God one day

When you're in front of those pearly gates You know, what do you think God's going to say? Man, I hope he says come on in To be honest with you But it's funny because somebody was I heard this the other day It was like everybody wants to go to heaven but nobody's in a rush to get there, right?

It's like, I don't know. To me, I really, I'm not done yet. So there's still a lot of things for me to earn that passage, right? But at the end of the day, you know, be, if we're getting into Christianity here, say I'm doing it, be in love like Jesus, right? Like, be somebody that's not, I try my very best to be the best person I can possibly be. And if that's good enough to get in, then great. If it's not, well, I can't control what I can't control, so I can't worry about it.

At the end of the day, I think, you know, it's like I had a good friend. This is a weird story, but we're in the weird story about anyways. I remember growing up, I had a good friend, Edwin. I'm still friends with him on Facebook. I grew up in the country in Akron, Ohio, right? A little town called Norton. He played with LeBron James. Yeah, exactly.

Everybody knew where Akron was because of him, thankfully. But I remember we're going to his house and a black kid, and he had a black Jesus in his house. And I'm like, had it started making me wonder. Like I started thinking and I talked to him. And he's like, well, yeah, why do you look at where this happened? Like, do you think? And then, like, from that point on, it was kind of to me, like,

people are going to manifest whatever they are going to have a likeness to. but the reality is I've always had a connection with something bigger than me. So I don't know. Like the question of what's going to happen when I'm there, the God that I think that I have, that I know that is the person that created me, I'm not really worried of whether or not I'm going to get it in or not, right? I've done the very best that I can.

I've tried to follow basic rules of not being a shitbag person, right? Don't kill people, don't steal, don't cheat on nuts. your wife, don't go, you know, covet other people's women or money or things like that to where have I made mistakes? Yes. But, you know, that's, we all have. And I think, I think, I think I have a good shot of getting in, but I can't control it. So I can only focus on, hey, I still have some work to do and just try to be the best person I can be. It's a great answer and it's always an inspiration. You know, it's a new question I want to ask people just because I bring such great characters, men of faith, and good humans on this show. And just to see their journey

is always an inspiration to me and I'm sure to other people listening. I like to close the show with one question. It's a three-prong question. It's what's a personal goal that you have for yourself this year? What's a family goal that you have for your family? And what's a business goal that you have. Oh, so personal goal. So I mean, I've started doing goals every year and I have a few of them, right? We do the same thing. Personal. I can't say family goal, but I'm just going to start spitting off things that I have. One, I want to get better putting my phone on airplane mode, right? And I think that's more of a personally and a family goal because they tie in one and the same. They do. Right. Like I want to be, when we talk about that list of what defines a hundred percent

grade for me on a successful day. It's being a good father and being a good husband. And part of that means being connected, right? Just like you and I talked about, why do we talk to our moms in the morning? Well, because that's our job to be, you know, still show respect and talk to our parents. And we like good sons. Exactly. But if you don't take effort doing it, then how can you say, even though you're not a bad son, but were you a good? You know, there's a difference. So I want to be a good father and a good husband. One of my goals this year is to start getting better at putting my phone on airplane mode for a time. It gives me anxiety. So I've struggled with it. Yeah, me too. I have the same goal, by the way. Yeah, it's like it's really, really hard. But I'm getting better at it. Personally,

you know, I want to, my wife and I, we have our 15 year wedding anniversary coming up here in a couple of weeks, we're starting to do marriage courses, right, to, like, strengthen our own friendship. It's really tough because I am gone a lot and I work a lot. And, but at the same time, like, I really enjoy her friendship and our partnership. And I went from a family goal for us because soon our daughter is going to be off to college. I want to deepen our friendship and relationship. And the last from, you know, I'll say from a business goal, it's not a short-term goal, right?

But I want to get to 5,000 transactions months, right? That's my, that's kind of where that's my next milestone. I think it's possible. I know what's possible. We're going to make it happen. It's just how quick. So to me, it's like this year, not going to do that. this year. But next three years, I think that we'll get to a point to where we're doing

5,000 a month. I love that, Tom, and you and me, you know, we have the same goal. We're actively competing at each other at the highest level, you know, just like on a basketball court. Yeah. We're, you know, we have big at, we, we were at 1500 transactions. I think we're at 700 or something like that. You're at like a thousand. We're right there neck and neck. And I admire your mindset. I admire your goals. I admire your vision. I admire who you are as a person. I keep winning with you. Let's keep winning. Let's keep dominating. Thank you so much for being on the show. God bless you. God bless family. And I hope he had every single one of those goals. Appreciate you, brother. Coffees for closers, Tom Wallace. Make it happen. Thank you.