Coffeez with Joe Shalaby - Have Your Best Brain ft. Thoryn Stephens | Coffeez for Closers with Joe Shalaby

Episode Date: March 28, 2025

This isn’t your typical Coffeez for Closers episode—we’re going full science nerd.Our guest, Thoryn Stephens, is a molecular biologist turned entrepreneur who’s worked with biotech startups, Caltech neuroscientists, and now runs Brain One—a platform using AI and neuroscience to help anyone (from pro athletes to your grandma) upgrade their brain health and performance.He’s the kind of guy whose morning routine involves sunlight, red light, brainwave tracking, and about six other things you’ve probably never heard of—but might want to try.This isn’t the usual entrepreneurial grind talk—but if you want more energy, clearer thinking, and yeah… more money in the long run—this episode’s for you.Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

This isn't your typical entrepreneurial chat. Today, we're going full science nerd. Our guest, Thorin Stevens, is a legit scientist who's worked with everyone from biotech startups to Caltech neuroscientists. He's obsessed with optimizing human biology, and let's just say, his idea of a good morning routine includes sunlight, bioresonant treatments, and measuring brain waves. Thoren is the founder of Brain One, a groundbreaking platform using AI and neuroscience to help anyone from elite athletes to your grandma enhance brain function and live healthier longer better but fair warning

today's episode gets a little nerdy a little wild and might even make you rethink your morning scroll through tic-tok if you're ready to optimize your mind body and maybe even your life grab a notebook settle in and join us this is not your usual coffees but trust me you won't want to miss it before i talked about brain one and we talked about your protocol a little bit before, but I like to start every podcast out with the same question. Sure. What's your morning routine? Yeah, morning routine is pretty well structured.

It depends if I'm home in Colorado where I'm traveling. But my morning routine begins with some level of gratitude or prayer and then meditation for about 20 minutes and direct sunlight for about 20, 25 minutes, depending on, you know, where the mountains are and the time of the day. As well as hydration, you know, usually a couple liters of water. And then I get into some level of intermittent and fasting. And then when I, you know, break that fast, usually it's something fairly high in protein. But that's generally, you know, the structure of the morning.

If I'm home, I do some bioresonant treatment. I've been working with a device called a biotcharger. So I'll do roughly about 30. minutes of some resident treatment and then jump on my engineering calls with my teams in India and L.A. And then if I am in Colorado, you know, try to go ski for a couple hours every single day. That's the dream. That's a dream. It's a lot of fun. Yeah. We'll tell you. We'll talk about the bioresonant treatment because I'm assuming you're doing the bioresonant treatment concurrently while you're doing other things. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, pretty regimented relative

to my supplements as well as, you know, BPC 157, some peptides. It also depends on if I'm training for a triathlon or, you know, what's going on. But that's the general framework. Let's talk about Brain One. Give the audience like an overarching explanation as to what is Brain 1 and how it's going to change the whole bio-optimization protocols for everybody. Awesome. Thank you. Yeah. Just to oversimplify Brain 1, the concept is it really addresses the question, if you follow a health influencer or an athlete and you've ever asked the question, like, what is their health protocol? What is their routine that they do every day? That's what brain one does fundamentally. You know, literally answers that question, you know, what does this

athlete do on their daily basis? And it does so by putting it into a structured framework. And that is broken down by micro habits. So the things that you do, as well as nutrition, as well as some level of supplementation and then measurement. And so you have a protocol, you have your micro habits, and then you have a feedback loop fundamentally. And the feedback loop, it varies from, you know, wearables to self-report, all the way to advance blood markers. And, you know, we're really doing the full spectrum, essentially, that can integrate into Brain One as a system.

The feedback loops tied into all the different biomarker testing platforms. We can. We're partnered with them. Yeah. So we started off. So, again, when you think about brain. just measurement, right? Like over here you have self-report. As an example, like Center for Brain Health out of Texas, they've been doing this research for 20 or 30 years. The majority of the research was

based initially on self-report. And then you get into biometrics. So again, you know, the plethora wearables. We have over, I think our API integrates into like, you know, three to 400 different wearables. And then you get into biomarkers. And then you can get into imaging and then you get into EEG. And then way over here, you have what's called BCI or brain computer interfaces. And one of our lead scientists, his name is Dr. Galen Buck Walter. He's currently the most connected human on the planet with six neural implants on his brain right now as part of a clinical trial at Caltech. And this is the BlackRock neuro. It's called the Utah Array. It's a chip eight by eight that literally is measuring his neural activity. One on the prefrontal cortex, five on the neocortex. And it

literally allows him to measure and then actually excite different areas of the brain. And so, you know, it's a spectrum of measurement. And we're, you know, trying to support all aspects of that measurement. But it really does depend on the human. You know, some humans can't afford, you know, a wearable. So we're really trying to meet them where they're at. And again, that's where self-report comes into play. Well, I mean, if you're optimizing your biology, you can't afford a wearable. You're not optimizing your biology because optimizing biology is pretty damn expensive. It can be, for sure. But we're trying to make, you know, it for like anyone you know brain one we want to reach a billion humans through brain and biological

optimization you know that's the mission that we're going after and so part of that is meeting humans where they're at and you know again many humans you know all over the world they don't that's awesome you're solving for a big problem because we discussed this earlier it's like when they're sick they're going there for ailments that were caused because they didn't optimize their biology correct so we really will see significant health care improvements because you're optimizing for biological markers. Absolutely. 100%. Yeah, we've really focused on the concept of brain fitness. So how do you optimize your biology today? You know, and so the, as opposed to like neurodegeneration or brain health, which is when you're talking about, again, Alzheimer's dementia and so

forth. And so we started off there, you know, again, in this concept of brain fitness. But then as it's progressed, you know, we've seen these awesome opportunities to help support people, again, within neurodegeneration. Like, as an example, you know, again, in this concept of brain fitness. And like, as an example, you know, example, there was a paper that came out in initially 2017, but it's called the Lancet 2020. It's usually recognized as. And it's based on the hypothesis that dementia is preventable. Have you heard of this? I've heard that dementia is preventable.

Correct, right? In many ways. Yeah. Especially now in the biohacking world. Sure. Exactly. A big sell point. It is.

And so this paper, again, if you Google Lancet 2020, it'll come up. It's also available on the Brain One website. But it basically identifies a series of what are considered behavior. behavioral risk factors that you can change, you know, theoretically. I mean, in some cases you can't because it could be, you know, pollution or if you're in a city and so forth. But again, very specific risk factors that you can, you know, try to work towards, you know, changing ultimately to prevent dementia. And we basically took that paper. We ran it through our AI. We generated editorial and then a protocol that anyone can download for

free in use. Sweet. That is awesome. And I'm really excited once this thing goes live for, you know, immediate adoption for the general society. Thank you. Yeah. We're very excited as well. Let's talk about the origin story. Sure. Because it's a fascinating story.

Why you created Brain 1 being a competitive athlete, why don't you tell the audience, you know, the whole origin story of how this came about and now how you're taking it to market. Yeah, absolutely. So my background's in molecular biology. I worked in drug development as a bench scientist and researcher for the first half of my career. Was, you know, working towards a PhD as an undergrad, taking graduate classes. and I really wanted to jump into drug development. And so immediately out of school, I went to a startup, purchased by Amgen,

and then I was working in the South San Francisco area in biotech as a bench scientist. And it was an awesome time. You know, we were the generation when the human genome was just getting sequenced. And it was this interesting point, too, because then the human genome got sequenced, and it was like, oh, well, it's not just about genomics. It's now about proteomics. And then what's called the epigenome, which is in between, you know, which is ultimately, you're...

DNA that codes for RNA and then translates into, you know, actual proteins. And so I was part of that initial genomics generation with the sequencing of the genome and, you know, ultimately, you know, seeing that progress into how you could apply these principles into other areas of drug development fundamentally. And in my 20s, I began to start running. And then as I progressed with running, I went to triathlons and then I went to full Iron Man's. And when I was doing full Iron Man's, it was the concept of following a health protocol and using data. You know, at the time, we're using these big chunky garments and, you know, it was pretty limited on the data you could get out of it.

It was heart rate and so forth. But it was that idea of using data to drive and optimize your biology. And that was kind of the epiphany. And what I found was when I began training with wearables and with data, you know, I could attenuate my lactic threshold and I could go stronger, faster, longer, you know, by really understanding what those thresholds were based in my training. And so that really just escalated things, and I began to do full iron mans. And then, you know, that was kind of the, you know, at least the background of following that type of structured framework.

Because in triathlon, you're continually optimizing your biology. And specifically, you have heart rate, you have your nutrition, you know, you have protein, you have electrolytes, you have hydration. And if any one of those variables is off, then you can, like, completely bonk and not finish the race. So you're constantly optimizing your biology as you go on the fly. And that's really why the training is so important. for race day, you've, you know, ideally you've been training for months, you've nailed it, and you get out there and you have a good race. And it was through that experience, too, that I really began to get, you know, put in front of or have access, you know, really began to see other types

of tools, right? So as an example, we were doing some training on the Central Coast with one of my good buddies, Dean. And this is roughly 2015, and we look over, we'd have this crazy, you know, training day in Paso-roblay's, Lake Nassimiento, training for wildflower. And we look over and we see Dean and he's got this red light on his knee, you know, and this is like 15-ish, you know, about 10 years ago and, you know, we're like, Dean, what are you doing over there? And he's like, oh, you guys just got to try it. It, you know, excites your mitochondrial DNA. And now red light is, you know, on the homepage of Tony Robbins, right? Yeah. Now red light's like everywhere, everywhere. Literally everywhere. So, you know, we were kind of part of that,

you know, with triathletes in particular, you know, always on the kind of the cutting edge of these types of biological optimization. And the other one I'll mention, too, is racehorses. You know, a lot of these techniques that have been used for race horses like lasers, you know, for decades, you were very much ahead of the times. Now they're being ultimately utilized with humans as well. And so it was that experience of starting to train for triathlon. And then full circle, you know, I became a data scientist. I was working in massive amounts of data. I moved from San Francisco to L.A. And then I went from there into some private equity work. And about two years ago, I really realized I needed to re-center on my purpose. And that was science. And so,

So I was very clear I wanted to come back into something biology-based. And I wasn't sure exactly what it was. And I was doing some pro bono work with a group out of Columbia University called the Neuro Rights Foundation, which was really interesting. They were trying to provide a structured framework around legislation for protection of neurological data. And as I was going down that road, it was very apparent that, you know, we needed more resources for brain. And at the time, I hadn't launched Brain 1. I had the concept.

And we were going down this road of using AI. And I pulled together a triathlon team to race the Malibu triathlon. And so this would have been in 23. And I pulled, I had about a dozen athletes. I didn't even launch Brain 1. And we had a Brain 1. And we had this. This is before Brain 1 was really, really, this was just the beginning.

It was the beginning, literally. You know, we hadn't even launched our alpha at that stage. And I had about a dozen athletes. And it was through that experience. I was like, okay, the health protocol. We need to productize the health protocol and give these away. So at least people have a structured framework to follow for different levels of health. You know, again, starting with brain fitness.

People don't think about brain fitness. People don't think about, people are starting to think about biological optimization. Sure. So what are some simple brain attacks that people can implement right now into their life, into their current health protocols to really help them optimize their brain. function. Sure. So one, so I'll give you like a couple off the top of head, right? One, I was, I was meeting with the Center for Brain Health and this amazing scientist, Dr. Sandra, and she's the founder. And, you know, and I was like, I come in with all this data and all the biometrics and bar markers.

And she's like, Thorne, you know, that's really interesting. That's where we started. But you know where we ended? Connection. And the importance of connection. And if a human has purpose in connection, it can increase their life expectancy by, you know, what is it, like 10 to 15 years, by having connection. So that is one example of a very easy thing you can do is connecting with humans. Whatever it is, it can be a book club, it could be, you know, playing cards. But having that connection and people that ultimately lose that have this isolation, it's absolutely detrimental to brain health. And let me give you one more.

Another would be the concept of multitasking. You know, we live in this hustle-driven society. And we're seeing backlash against that right now, and it's really, really interesting, right? Multitasking? Multitasking. All super high performers have to, I mean, I have no choice but to multitask. They say Elon Musk is doing four or five things all day long. Correct.

But from a brain biology perspective, you were actually more efficient. So let's say you have six things to do and you have one hour. You could do all six things at once or you could focus on each for 10 minutes. You will be more efficient and effective. by doing the latter in basically single-tasking on that one thing for a period of time than trying to do those six things at once for one hour. And there's pretty conclusive data around this. We're just not wired for it.

When we were hunters and gathers, we were very focused on the one thing, finding protein, food, sustenance, survival. And so, you know, that translates. And it's just, you know, in this whole, you know, hustle culture that we've been driven towards. So you suggest people just try to do one thing. Don't multitask. Correct. So if you're working on a paper, you're working on a single item, you know, turn off your phone,

focus on that for 20 minutes, half an hour, as opposed to trying to, you know, be on the phone, watch TV, focus on the task, single tasking. So, yeah, and again, that's ultimately based on our biology as well. What about some affordable supplements or things that they could do to also improve cognition? So, neutropics, you know, we're very, I think, popular for quite a while. I mean, there's a number of neutrophics, there's a number of peptides out there. I generally lean towards plant-based molecules and, you know, supplements and so forth. So, you know, Ashwaganda could be one as an example.

Yeah. You know, that's pretty prevalent in that space. So ashwaganda is good for brain health. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's, you know, I mean, been used by, you know, the Indian culture for thousands of years. So that could be one. You've worked with big brands, you know, Fox, Unilever. Those experiences really help.

you shape your vision for brain one? Sure. So as a young scientist, you know, we would optimize molecules when I was doing drug development in biotech. I was part of the lead optimization team. And so we would go after a therapeutic target and then we would literally create mutants and then optimize it to try to find a novel or prove a mechanism of action would be the concept. And so what I found is that, you know, using data, we could begin to optimize molecules. And then when I moved from San Francisco to L.A., I started off, I mean, I, you know, there was no science happening in L.A. at the time, and so I started off as a digital analyst. And the idea of using data to drive insights. So I would build digital systems focused in measurement. And it always

came back to measurement. And then the concept of, again, using data to drive insights. So you have the measurement, and then you're driving hypotheses and then rapid iteration in testing. And so as I'm working in the digital domain, what I found is that we could optimize any human behavior online. We could, you know, optimize towards humans watching more videos or buying more things or downloading X. And honestly, I like, you know, and this is like, you know, early, this is 12, 13, the beginning, you know, when Facebook was really taking off, that's when Facebook had an open API and you can download all of the data out of the API. And I began to see where the data was being used nefariously, you know, and ultimately driving, you know, toxic behaviors. And, and, you know,

And we see a lot of that now. But it was through that experience, again, of using data to drive a behavior. And, you know, I kind of just reached a point. I was like, why are we doing this to have people buy more things they don't need? Why don't we use it for, you know, ultimately optimization of health? And that was really the segue into Brain 1 about two years ago when I really realligned in my sense of purpose around science and using data to drive health. And that was really the impetus for what ultimately has become Brain 1.

They use that data just to just sell us stuff and really just hypnotize us into insane consumer behavior. Correct. Yeah. A really nefarious example is the trend called bed rotting. Have you seen, have you heard of this? No. So this is really prevalent in the younger generation, you know, teenagers, early 20s, and they will literally sit in bed and, you know, just scroll, doom scroll, just like literally every day. There's a term for that. Bed rotting. And, you know, having you know, they're watching this, you know, facade of humans living their best life and they're just sitting in bed, you know, depressed and, you know, anxious and all the things that are being facilitated by some of these social channels. And so we've developed a brain, a brain one bed rotting

protocol that we're giving away, you know, so people can have these basic principles to try to get them out of bed and, you know, face the world. It's funny that you mentioned brain rotting because I felt like I experienced that this morning. I usually wake up very, very early, but yesterday I, you I had a celebrated birthday party and I was out late till like midnight and then I got up same 536 the morning couldn't make my 6 a.m. gym session. So I just sat in bed like dooms. I'm like trying to go to bed. I'm like this. I felt like my brain was rotting. I'm yeah 20 minutes. I'm like just blew 20 minutes rotting my brain. A hundred percent. You know. It is a real thing. It's a real thing. And I could hit anybody. Anyone. And because sleep's so important because if you get my sleep was

90. I would have just jumped out of bed, rolled right to the gym, started my stretches, started my morning protocol. But I just sat there. I'm like, I'm so tired. I survived on five and a half hours of sleep. Sure. So there's a correlation between biological optimization, because you won't sit in bed and rot your brain if you slept well. Correct. You won't sit in bed and rot your brain if you had a good workout. You have a workout routine or, you know, you got to train the next morning. You will sit in bed if you had a rough night. You didn't get good sleep. Sure. Or you're a drank or whatever it was. Or you're just conditioned, you know, like, because that's what you do. You know, you just sit in bed and, you know, you scroll. And in these, you know, again, these algorithms

have all been, you know, they're optimizing for your scroll time. And so I think we need to invent better metrics, you know, for humans, right? Like who among our friends has the least amount of screen time, you know, let's celebrate that. You know, let's celebrate the amount of time we're outdoors being active, you know, as opposed to, you know, some of these more nefarious activities. So that's really what we're trying to promote at Brain One. It's ironic because you have to be in front of your screen to use Brain One. Maybe you'll create some sort of... Oh, we already have. So that's a great point. So actually, yeah, thank you for calling that out. So again, initially, we went down the road of, you know, digital optimization building this app that anyone can use. You can now download your

protocols and have them printed. Because what we were finding is for the older demographic. They don't, you know, again, the app is as easy as possible. I want my grandma to be able to use it. But instead you could actually print the protocol and you use it analog and you know myself as a scientist I have like you know 70 plus notebooks you know those like you know essentially like research notebooks and that's what I use as well but we're trying to meet people where they're at and so we're going down that road you can download the protocol you can print it and you could just do it manually and then you can upload it into the brain one system so this is what we've been working towards and then the idea where we're getting closer you could just have a book printed you get in the mail and then

That's your protocol. You just check it off. You check it off. So it's not digital. And again, it's meeting people where they are and exactly to your point, you know, so they're not always on their phones. It is a true epidemic.

Even Mark Zuckerberg himself is trying to solve for this. He knows how destructive this behavior is to society. Yeah. That leads me to my next question. Like, where is the future of neurotechnology? So again, when we talk about the measurement of brain, you know, self-report over here, you know, you've got Brian Johnson over here, right?

who's like measuring, you know, every possible biological marker. You can imagine. But even more advanced than Brian is the concept of BCI, right? And, you know, again, as I mentioned, you know, the idea that you have brain computer interfaces. And so, you know, these are chips. You've heard of Neurrelink, of course. There's other companies that have been doing this for decades. Black Rock Neuro as an example.

And their Utah array was very pioneering. And so at Brain 1, we have a scientist named Dr. Galen Buckwalter. He was the former chief scientist of E-Harmony. So E-Harmony was building production level machine learning AI like 20 years ago when I first met Galen, I first moved to L.A. And Galen is a quadriplegic. And so he's in a wheelchair. And he qualified for a clinical trial at Caltech.

He currently has six of these neural arrays, again, on his brain. And it's incredible, you know, ultimately. And what he's able to do is measure his neural activity, but then also control a robotic arm as an example. And so they're mapping and they're measuring the electrical activity throughout the brain to do an action. And that action could be controlling an avatar, controlling a robotic arm for humans like Galen, you know, ultimately. And so BCIs are absolutely the future. And there's invasive and non-invasive. In Galen's case, they removed a chunk of his skull.

And they have, again, five in the Neo and one in the prefrontal cortex. And with that, again, using AI and essentially mapping it so he can, again, control a robotic arm would be, you know, the thinking behind it. And it's absolutely phenomenal. And then quick, funny, side note, you know, Galen, as an incredible human, he's the most connected human on the planet right now. And so, again, you know, I've been with him at clinical trials at Caltech. Define connected so the audience doesn't disinterpret that as like connected. So he has six of these. neural arrays on his actual brain tissue measuring and then potentially exciting, you know,

different areas of the brain. And so he has three pads on his skull, which essentially are holes. And, you know, you essentially, you screw on an interface that, you know, connects to the internet. Wow. Quite literally. And so Galen, you know, amazing, amazing human at Brain One, He's our chief brain futurist is his title. And he, you know, his expression, being in a wheelchair, has been through science and punk rock. And now BCI. And so quick, you know, funny side notes. So I also composed music.

And we actually wrote a punk song together. We're going to be releasing in the next month or so where Galen is singing to the track, literally, and then essentially controlling a synthesizer with his brain at the same time. Whoa. Oh, yeah. This is right now. This isn't, you know, in the future, da-da-da. Like, we are the generation that is seeing the intersection of biology with machines right now today.

And Galen is a absolute pioneer in this space. That is incredible. I'm so excited to see, like, how this all plays out. Actually, yesterday learned about the first robot that's actually conducted as a human being, not like the AI robots, like, pull-on human, has human movements. Sure. Have you seen that? I haven't seen that one now.

Full robotic arm. but like human movements. Yeah. They can do everything a human can. It's happening right now. We are that generation. And you're helping cultivate the brain part of the AI. Correct.

In that case. Robots that have like true human cognition. I mean, for sure. I mean, that's also the fear, you know. That's also the fear. Yeah. What do you think, like, how is that going to impact mankind? So again, I'm an optimist.

I think there are reasons to be, you know, very mindful, you know, in this stage. I think we have to ultimately work with the AI and the machines. And so I look at these BCIs, and again, there's invasive where they're literally drilling a skull, you know, drilling a hole in your school like Neurrelink. But there's also now non-invasive BCIs that are becoming more prevalent as well. Like what? I couldn't name a brand off the top of my head. I mean, a lot of research actually, you know.

Can I get a BCI? I mean, and what would the benefit of a BCI be to me? So instead of having, you know, to drill like a, you know, essentially a hole in your school. a non-invasive ACI, you know, essentially could read essentially your neural activity through your skull. The problem is it's like less resolution. You have impotence and, you know, so forth. But that's the concept that you could be thinking something and then it could translate into a text message or an email. I actually was with one of the founders of League of Legends last week. Yep.

And he told me that he put that on his head and it was tracking his thoughts and his emotions. It was a non-invasive BCI, but it was accurate. Exactly. And it was kind of like a light helmet. Yeah. I mean, so there's EEGs. Brian Johnson's company, Colonel is an example of that. Brian Johnson's company.

Leading the charge here. Yeah. But that's a helmet, right? That's a helmet. Correct. Yeah. I think it has like 19 nodes or so. And again, the resolution, you know, it's not going to be as high resolution as a BCI,

which is literally measuring the actual, you know, like the, on the actual cells of the brain. What is the benefit of kernel or. Neurolink to a normal person? Well, so I think, I mean, Neurrelink is a more advanced use case. You know, the immediate benefit there is someone who maybe has, you know, there's also, I mean, why is Elon Musk putting billions into neural? Because it's the future, right? I mean, again, you also have, you know, you have BCI's brain computer interfaces.

What's also next is spinal computer interfaces as well. And so that's where, that's, I mean, to be clear, that's what neuralink's focusing on. It's focusing on humans who, you know, ultimately are not able to, you know, they've had an accent of some kind. They're not able to use their spine. Their brain. Exactly. Or, you know, there was a great study probably about nine months ago now with a woman who was able to use her brain to essentially speak to her partner through an avatar, you know, speak to the world through an avatar just using her brain who had, you know, again, an accident. So that's very, very much the future. I think that most humans should be doing a, you know, regular brain scan. You know, once a year,

go in and measure your neural activity through an EEG, QEEG, and then you can optimize it, though. You know, you could use treatments and modalities like neurofeedback as an example, and you can actually see the improvement in your brain or imaging, you know, as another example. So by understanding of the baseline of where you're at today, you can improve. And that's been the basis of my career around measurement, you know, data driving insights, you have a baseline, and then how do you improve it, you know, in this case, applying these principles to, you know, general biology of the human. Wow. You came up with Brain 1. Now, what do you think was like that aha moment? You're like, damn, people need a generic protocol where they're able to implement and adopt this, something a little bit more basic for the general masses. Because nobody thinks about a bio-optimized protocol for the public. Yeah. It's really like, and so needed, you know, like the public needs to understand, like, what is a good protocol and what they can, and meet them where they're at because everybody just, they're just, they.

things. Yeah. It's for triathletes. Sure. It's for Brian Johnson. Crazy people. Correct. For whatever. It's like, why did you think about something for the general public? Like, what was that aha moment? Again, it was, it was when I was training for for this triathlon. And I was like, you know, I was following this structured framework in that concept of just, you know, ultimately developing these, these different types of protocols. And so initially, we were going after science-based protocols. And it's very linear. You know, again, the Lancet 2020 study where dementia is preventable if you follow these modifiable risk factors today. Our parents, our grandparents, they're all terrified of Alzheimer's and dementia. You know, there are protocols they could be following.

And you don't want to start when you're in your 50s or 60s. You want to be starting when you're in your 30s and 40s. Or even younger. Or younger. These are basic life principles, you know, and so as you look at longevity as an example, you know, they're all following these same general principles. But what Brain One does is it puts it into a structured framework. You can again print. You can use digitally. You can follow. Like I'd like to have my kids on these protocols because you're meeting them where they're at. Like that's it. Kids, here's how you're going to prevent dementia. Correct. You're going to be an absolute best physical health. Because that's like if the kids can adopt this at a hundred understand. Yes. So we started off with these,

again, science driven, you know, protocols taking peer reviewed scientific papers and then developing editorial and then developing, you know, again, an actual protocol someone can follow. And that's all using our AI. And then as I started to talk to more health influencers and athletes, I asked them the question. I was like, hey, do you get asked what your health protocol and routine is? And every single one of them was like, absolutely. And that's when I knew we had something. I was like, oh my gosh, like literally. So now we're, you know, working with some really big names in developing, you know, working with them to develop their health protocols that they can either give away or monetize, you know, like, would you spend a dollar to, you know, see Tom Brady's

protocol? Well, you probably would, you know, or if it's someone that you follow. And so, so we went down that road then with health influencers. And then further, we started doing research with traditional health protocols, like, what did the Spartans do? What did they do in China? What did they do in Japan, you know, over these last thousands of years? And, um, and began developing traditional health, you know, cultural protocols as well. And we've developed the world's largest database of health protocols and then micro habits. And that's the other side of this. You know, when you think about a health protocol, what is it? It's just a series of things that you do when you get up. Cold plunging as an example would be, you know, a micro habit. And so as you're looking at-

It just sounds sophisticated protocol. It's just intimidating. It's just a routine. It's just a morning routine. You know, that's it. That's it. It's just a regimen routine. It's just what you do. You know, it's a fair point. And I've talked about this with my team. You know, do we not use the word protocol. It sounds intimately. I think routines is more for the masses. Routines. That's how I, because I don't start my show with what's your health protocol in the morning. Right. What do you ask? You ask, what is your routine? What's your morning routine? Yeah. That's great. And again, it's meeting people what they are. I mean, as a scientist, you know, I'm, I was going down this road. Actually, you know what it was though? We developed. We have hundreds of these protocols.

And I was talking to one of my advisory members, uh, his name's Ross Nash. And he's like, I don't know if we should use the term protocol, Thorin. And I was like, well, you know, As a scientist, it just, I, you know, Brian Johnson uses that term, of course. It's intimidating. It is. That's why I never jumped on the bandwagon immediately. I'm like, I'm not going to do a protocol.

But then, but, you know, so I was having this conversation with Ross, and literally the next day, Huberman announced his new book. Do you know what it was called? What is it called? Protocols. And literally, it's coming out in the next couple months. I mean, this was, you know, about six months ago. But he literally announced, you know, his new book called protocols.

And so, you know, he's obviously a very tried and true scientist. But it's, it doesn't, you know, it's a routine. It's a regimen. It doesn't matter what you call it as long as you do it. You know, and to your point, too, I mean, kids should be learning these things. It's like, and it's not complicated. It's what are the six things you need to do? And you look at all these longevity experts and so forth.

It's pretty simple. You know, it's high protein. It's going to be sunlight in the morning. You know, it's going to be a level of hydration. It's going to be connection. You know, and you just oversimplify it. There's like five things. You know, you could do every day to live a better, more robust life.

Yeah. From the Don't Die Summit, I gathered that basically the number one thing that's most important for a health protocol is sleep. Absolutely. Yes. Of course sleep. Yes. We've actually been developing a protocol called sleep maximization, you know, and it's following all of these, you know, micro habits you could be doing. Yeah.

It could include, you know, some level of supplementation like magnesium. You know, I generally don't go towards melatonin, but magnesium. And then all the things you can do in your preparation for sleep. And so with my friends, you know, what we share is like, you know, what was your, you know, what was your sleep score the night before, you know? Like I got a 91 the other day. I like, you know, I shared it with my friends. I'm like, yes, you know, it's tough. 72 last night. I know. It's, well, but it's okay. You can't beat yourself up on it. Then I was doom scrolling after. There's, there you go. There's probably a connection. There's definitely a connection. Yeah. But those are the metrics we should be optimizing, sleep score, you know, ultimately. You know, and you over simplifies like, you know, whatever you call it, the microhabit. It comes down to these, you know, again, like five or six basic principles. Yeah, and then also resting heart rate while you sleep is super important. And I learned that, you know, to drop your resting heart rate depends on one, when was your last meal. Sure.

So like if you fast eight hours before your last meal, your resting heart rate will plummet. Yeah, absolutely. And HRV as well, of course, as a measurement of your parisempathetic. To that point, like I had dinner last night, sushi at like 10 p.m. Oh, yeah. My variable told me this morning, she's like, you sums up, your heart rate was counting. It was 65. Yeah.

Well, that's because as you're trying to sleep, your body's still digesting all that food. Yeah. So the basics of intermittent fasting, I mean, at least not eating two hours before you go to bed. You know, these are all the very, very basic principles that we're just not really taught. You know, we haven't, you know, like as a child, I mean, you're not really taught about the brain or the nervous system at all, let alone, you know, this concept of your health. not taught because three of the people I was out with were doctors and some of them were specialized doctors like oncologists or whatever and here we are there's like you know eating right before a vet like they're not optimizing for they're learning with me about this stuff i know it's it's not

taught in med schools it's not taught in specialized schools it's now part of the met you know longevity studies but it's uh longevity and functional medicine doctors are aligned you know where they're they're looking at the holistic human and they're looking at the holistic human and they're looking at it from a preventable perspective. You know, you're not just treating the disease. You know, you're treating the human to ensure that they don't get the disease. So it's more of a movement, and that's not even, you know, as widely accepted in traditional, you know, Western medicine.

Western medicine is all driven by Big Pharma. And Robert F. Kennedy's announced that he's going to try to cut all Big Pharma commercials. Like, because Big Pharma is just a big scam. It's just, they just try to just get you sick, so they sell you medicine. You know, it's just a big hustle. Yeah. We've all been like blinded by these multi-billion dollar corporations that are just basically there to enable us to get sick.

Sure. I mean, they are incentivized for sickness. So I would absolutely agree with that. And, you know, you look in general at our FDA, you know. I mean, it is, it's pretty upsetting that, you know, you have these like stalwart, you know, U.S. brands like Kellogg's that has different ingredients in the U.S. than in Canada. You know, why is glyphosate in our food chain at all? Like, you know, as an herbicide, I mean, it is absolutely criminal that, you know, these herbicides have been allowed into our food chain.

Or like another example is like PFA's, you know, what's going on with polyphlor alchols? Why are they in like every single water supply in the U.S.? It's absolutely tragic. And it does need to change. And so, you know, I'm optimistic. I mean, I think some of, you know, what RFK spouts can be a little lack of doodle. But, you know, I also agree with some of the things that he says as well. And so I do think that there absolutely needs to be radical change at these, you know, the EPA, the FDA. And I am optimistic that, you know, under the new leadership, we will start to see those changes because it is absolutely criminal in terms of what is being, you know, our children are being exposed to. To that point, like with AI, with neuroscientical.

with implementing this into a legitimate, profitable business, what does this all look like for the future? For brain one or just in general? For neuroscience in general. I mean, again, I think it starts with awareness. You know, like people are becoming more aware of what a PFAS is, of what glyphosate is. And so I think it has to start there.

And then it, you know, ultimately can shift behavior, you know, fundamentally. I mean, these things should not be even in the food supply, but then people shouldn't be buying them. And they need to be more aware of, you know, what they're putting into their body and, you know, the overabundance of preservatives and so forth. So I see this general trend. You know, you hear a lot about health span and longevity as an example, you know, really optimizing for those last 10 years of your life to be some of your best years, you know, so you're not of a clement and, you know, in a nursing home, you know, faced with dementia. So I'm up. Exactly. And I'm optimistic.

you know, for, you know, the steps of head. Like I use Peter Ataya's frame of reference. Absolutely. Not life span. Of course. Yes, absolutely. Because it's all about health span. It is 100%.

What the heck's the point of lifespan if you have no health? Correct. You know, if you're like living, you know, in a nursing home, I mean, it's pretty tragic what we've done to the older, you know, generations as well. And we have the opportunity to help change that right now. You know, and again, by following these pretty basic principles. Now, the hardest factor there is the human. You know, like we can build the best technology on the planet, but, you know, the human

still needs to do the thing. And so that's why I think from the behavioral modification step, you know, our approach of brain one is the idea of like incremental, you know, micro habits, incremental change over time. Yeah. But by starting earlier, you know, with children and getting them on, you know, these are the 10 basic principles, you know, then at least they have a chance. I love the incremental concept because I started like bio-optimization, which just like one thing. Yeah.

I'm going to add this feels good. Yeah. I'm going to add another. Yeah. Oh, this even feels better. Sure. Well, let's add this, this, this and this. Yeah. And now I'm just like, this is kind of add addicting. A hundred percent. Now I'm like, I should buy that. It's, I think it's good. I think the only time it can be start to be a negative is if you get too obsessed with the data. You know, if you wake up in the morning and your sleep scores of 71, you're like, oh, shit, I'm not going to have a good day. As opposed to getting up and feeling how you feel and then seeing if you're going to have a good day, you know. And so as a data scientist and someone who does, you know, these things on the daily basis, it's good to have a balance in all these things. And I'll go through

periods. There's true. That is very true. It's totally true. Because if I wake up in my sleep score 60, I'm pissed. You know, I'm like, my day's ruined. So try to get up and experience the day, do your routine and then look at your sleep score, you know, check in with yourself. And that's where data, you know, as a data scientist, I mean, you have to be careful. And I think generally it's, it's very much a positive, you know, but I'll also go through periods where I turn off all my wearables. You know, I'll go through a period where, you know, I just, I, you know, don't need the data at that time period. So, yeah, that's been on vacation. Vacation or even if I get sick, you know, you know, da-da-da. I mean, I just don't need to see the data. Yeah. So it's a balance,

you know, and all of these things. And, you know, you look at someone like Brian Johnson that's constantly, you know, he says he has the, you know, the best buyer markers on the planet, which may be true, but it's also important to live your best life, you know, to have the best quality of life you can have, which means going out and grabbing sushi with friends, you know, and eating at 10 o'clock at night and not being too hard on yourself, you know, the next day. Or doing the things, you know, whatever it might be. So I think it's a balance in all these things. And if you're too restrictive, you know, you might miss that thing. You might miss that event with your family or your friends, you know, that it's good to have balance in all of this as well. Now, I like to conclude the show a couple last

questions. This is a three-prong question. What's a personal goal that you have for yourself? Yep. A personal goal that you have for the business and some of the personal goals you're setting yourself up for your family. 100%. Okay, so personal goals for myself. So when I look at myself, I try to optimize against four quadrants. And so one is science, you know, and so a goal there is for Brain One to continue to publish research papers and, you know, get our science out there, reach a billion humans. Another goal I have personally, you know, in my matrix essentially is, is art in music. I'm also a musician. So like I mentioned, you know, I'm releasing this punk song with Dr. Galen, you know, which includes his neural activity in the song where he's singing

and we actually have his neural activity out of the clinical trial at Caltech. That's amazing. Super fun, you know. I'm going to get that on Spotify? Absolutely. It'll be on Spotify. Give me like a month. And so, and then physiology, you know, just in general, like being in the best shape I can possibly be for myself, for my family, you know, that is very, very important to me. You know, I do MMA. I do triathlons. I do all these things. And it's not to prove anything. I do it for myself, you know, but I'm trying to, you know, do the best I can.

I mean, like last season, my triathlon season, I qualified for USA trathlon, you know, nationals. I got second place in Hermosa Beach. And it's all for fun, you know. I didn't even go into it. Like, I want to get second place. I was like out there, you know, and I'm like, oh, well, I'm like, da-da-da. And then last is spirit, you know, so I try to optimize against, you know, my spirit as well. And I spend a lot of time in the jungles.

I spent a lot of time with, you know, different indigenous cultures and alignment of that spirit, ultimately. And so those are the four things that I, as a human and a man, I'm trying to optimize against. For Brain One, you know, the vision and the mission first is to reach a billion humans and to, you know, basically make these protocols accessible to any human that wants to make a change in their life. And, you know, to productize the human health protocol. So that's very exciting to me.

So, you know, that's all happening. And then what was the third? That was just family. Yeah, the family. Yeah. Again, you know, leading by example, you know, just trying to lead the best life I can, you know, be as healthy as possible, but also be as balanced as possible, you know, in all of these things. And, you know... Your sister, your mom, they're all following the health protocols?

They're getting there. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, again, you know, it's they all follow a routine. Yeah. But it's getting them on a more structured health protocol. And like, as an example, yesterday I took my mother. We did a hydrogen cloud treatment in Westlake Village at the Four Seasons with the

amazing practitioner named Sports IQ. And our family dog just had surgery and she had a splenectomy. And we literally brought the family dog into this hydrogen cloud. and then she did bioresonant treatment. And she's doing great today. You know, does it work? Well, you know, the science and some of this stuff is a little bit, you know, mixed and a little bit woo-woo. But, you know, that's also why we're trying to utilize Brain One to help drive, you know,

the validity of these somewhat fringe, you know, types of treatments and so forth. But, you know, just like even in my business, like, you have to be an early adopter. Of course. If you're not an early adopter, you're just not going to be winning. 100%. And the beautiful thing about this new longevity move. is that there's so much to adopt. There's so much to adopt.

Like right after this, like we're going to go check out this data bed. Like, you haven't even adopted that. You might be like, Joe, that was great. You know,

I was like, but like I'm just like, I like to adopt everything in business for my family, like sport, whatever it is. Like, there's just something that like, there's even somewhat of a hint of validity.

I'm on it. That's awesome. I'm on it. And then like, oh, that was totally BS. Like, well,

you know. Yeah. And in some of, it is, though. I mean, especially in, you know, the neurotech space, I mean, there are new devices being at it, and none of these were FDA approved, very few of them have clinical trials, you know, so you also

have to be careful at the end of the day. But, you know, that said, I mean, and some of these treatments like the, you know, the biorescent stuff has been around since the 30s and 40s, but then all the technology went to Russia and Germany because it, you know, basically was not outlawed here, but all the research went overseas, you know, is

that because of, you know, pharma and so forth. But all that to say, I think it's a very, you know, I'm an optimist and I think it's very exciting. And, you know, we have an incredible array of modalities that we can tap into. From a personal perspective, like, ever since I started this journey, I can with 100% certainty, show you pictures of me like a year ago. Yeah. And you'd be like, I look 10 years younger than I was a year ago. Right.

The weight. Yeah. It's way less than weight. 40, 30, 40 pounds less than weight. Skin, like hair. Yeah. Every single attribute of my body and my, I mean, I mean, I showed you my biomarkers, they're all dropping in age.

I am reducing, I'm reversing my age. And I meet people like, Joe, you look like a, you know, like fantastic. Like what the heck? And I'll see them. They're like, overweight or whatever. They're like, you could see them aging. And it's like, that's not what's happening to me. Sure.

You know, and it's like, I want to reverse backwards. Yeah. And age. So does everybody. But it takes work, takes protocol. It takes adoption. Yes. 100%.

Yeah. I mean, again, I don't necessarily want to live forever. But I want to live the best life I can every single day possible. Yeah. I mean, you're 46, you look amazing. Your skin looks great. Thank you. Thank you.

I'm the most ripped I've ever been. And I think part of that is learning. Again, we didn't necessarily have these tools when we're in our 20s and 30s and so forth. And now they're absolutely everywhere. What's going to happen in a year, I feel like this is what's going to be the new trend. This is what's going to be cool.

Yeah. Like this is how you're going to meet your significant other. You're going to meet them at a biohacking lounge. Oh, sure. You're not going to meet them at a nightclub. Well, so what you can do with Brain One, is you can share your health protocol. You meet someone on the street. You meet them, you know, da-da-da-da. And you're like, oh, yeah, check this out. And you literally just SMS them your

protocol. And they can see what you do. Yes. You know, literally. I mean, and it's, it's becoming, you know, it's productizing your health routine. So anyone can see. And then if there's alignment, you know, maybe that's someone good to hang out with. That's awesome. I love that when I started my show. You're like, Joe, your question of morning routine is that's my business. Yeah, literally. That's the question we're answering at Brain 1. Just oversimplified. What do you do when wake up in the morning, you know. And what do you do when you go to bed? Exactly. Exactly. All of those things, you know, what does Peter Attia do? You know, what does David Goggins do? You know, these amazing athletes, human that are putting, you know, their mental, physical, you know,

just capabilities to the next level. And, and that's it fundamentally. And then you can learn from that. And you can adopt it. And then you can create your own health protocol. And, you know, ultimately live your best life with the highest quality of life possible. Last question. I asked everybody this question. When you're in front of the pearly gates, what do you think God's going to tell you? I didn't, you know, that I didn't live with any regret. You know, I lived every single day to the fullest. And, uh, and I believe that wholeheartedly. You know, I wake up in the morning and I feel excited and, you know, I want to go just, you know, I want to ski. I want to see the beautiful mountains of, absolutely. Aspen. And just live the best life that I can. And I can, you know,

I feel that I've been able to do that, you know. And of course, we all have had. had ups and downs and all the things. But, you know, I can say I've truly lived every day to its fullest. Thorne, you've been an absolute pleasure to have on the show. Such pleasure. Thorne Stevens, guys, founder of Brain 1. It's going to be released. You're going to be able to access it for free right now. Yep. They can join our wait list if they go to brain. And yeah, you know, we're allowing people on the platform and just really excited, you know, chatting with you and seeing where this goes. That's awesome. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure to have you on the show.

God bless you, man. Thank you.