Coffeez with Joe Shalaby - How to be Leader in your Industry ft. CEO Wes Yuan | Coffeez for Closers with Joe Shalaby Ep. 21

Episode Date: May 31, 2024

Glenn Stearns is a prominent entrepreneur and philanthropist with a remarkable track record in the financial services industry.In 1989, he founded Stearns Lending, which grew to become one of the largest privately held mortgage companies in the United States.By 2013, Stearns Lending had funded over $25 billion in loans annually and was ranked as the top wholesale lender by Inside Mortgage Finance.Glenn's leadership propelled the company to be recognized in the Inc. 5000 list of fastest-growing private companies multiple times.In 2014, Stearns Lending was named the largest privately held mortgage lender in the nation by the Scotsman Guide.Glenn's accomplishments extend beyond business; he has been actively involved in philanthropic efforts, contributing millions to education and healthcare initiatives.His entrepreneurial spirit was showcased on the reality TV show "Undercover Billionaire," where he demonstrated his ability to build a million-dollar business from scratch within 90 days. Glenn Stearns' journey exemplifies the power of resilience, vision, and dedication in achieving extraordinary success.For More Check Out our Playlist: https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgPwyhl8CkXiM0cBtuY8A_6JS60FueLz3&si=0_2dnoPkYV6jcSGw Check Us Out on all Platforms!Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/coffeez-for-closers-with-joe-shalaby/id1726674707 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2KkQWRqHSHcCK3TVfsRKUK?si=hjTnUOjFS5eTDxBjgf4RwQ&preview=none Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Coffeez-Closers-Joe-Shalaby/dp/B0CRYLQRW6 Coffeez and Closers Socials & WebsiteWebsite: https://coffeezforclosers.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/coffeezpod/ TikTok: https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbnU0T3RrLXdPbC1BR2NLc2lWcExqWklQaHlQUXxBQ3Jtc0tudi1GV2Zod3hRYzRhTkhONFBuMlptblNGSlJ1QzhpV0tzbHh5YThNR0R3Y2RnNnU5NV9ER3E5ZUhxMjdUUWp1UWo4MVl6Q2szeXo1cFh1OHNkYkxDR1F0MXZtMTZ6QnZoakdzSnJpVl9PcWZBOU9zZw&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tiktok.com%2F%40coffeezforclosers&v=uXvk6LY9lS8 Facebook: https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqa2pLZ2pMaUxmSTh4dy1qazMtdlBjX2pVN1AxQXxBQ3Jtc0tua2RUTUNsRmJob0RKWlVqeDhNaUN4US1rdlRvUG9Fdm5SNk1jU1pQNzNLQnVmUmtGMGtMYUViZ2pLMXJkOVJUci1kMk9DN2poTThVV2NFd0tISWdDMzNwOEZ2c3pVb09lbEhjemJHblRsS1RKdHZqbw&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fpeople%2FCoffeez-for-Closers-with-Joe-Shalaby%2F61556355642488%2F&v=uXvk6LY9lS8 Joe Shalaby SocialsInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/josephshalaby/TikTok: https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqa3p6VlRzR1BWMkJQM1ZIaUdVZHhYVTYyak43QXxBQ3Jtc0tuUXVBOE1oZUJYTmZIZnNENUgxQkhjamk4RXJHb09MWU9OczJhLWpnX0JwN2pENzRhaV9NajJROW5nek1tQ1VvVE40ZFJuUUI2cnI0ajNKLXE4d1VMUUpkTGFHR0tGY0o5NUhnWnZnaXJoZXdEM0piaw&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tiktok.com%2F%40josephshalaby&v=uXvk6LY9lS8 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/josephshalaby E Mortgage Capital Socials & WebsiteInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/emortgagecapital/ Website: https://www.emortgagecapital.com/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/Emortgagecap #1 Mortgage Company on Social on 🌎#1 Non Delegated Lender in the Country🌟#1 Broker in CANMLS #1416824"Mortgages Are What We Do Not Who We Are"™https://finance.yahoo.com/news/learn-why-e-mortgage-capital-192000740.htmlAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

What's up, everybody. Welcome to another episode of coffees for closers. Our guest today is a true embodiment of a serial entrepreneur, currently making waves as the founder and CEO of Kind Lending, an innovative force in the mortgage banking industry with a philanthropy centered, with a philosophy centered around collaboration, individual value, and the essential ingredient of having fun. He's shaping a new era in the financial world, best known for his unparalleled success with Stern's lending LLC, which under his guidance became one of the largest privately held mortgage companies in the nation ever. Our guest story doesn't stop there. His ventures range from starring in one of my personal favorite shows undercover billionaire to founding multiple companies that have left significant marks across very. industries. Beyond his entrepreneurial spirit, he's a figure of philanthropy and community service and most importantly, kindness, along with his wife, Mindy, earning them numerous awards for their dedication to giving back from being named Ernst & Young's Entrepreneur of the Year to being inducted

into the Horatio Auger Association of Distinguished Americans. His journey is nothing short of inspirational. join me in welcoming the Glenn Stearns. Let's go. Let's go. The, that's right. Good, good, thank God. Glenn, I'm so stoked. I'm trying to get you on here for a while.

And, you know, it's an absolute honor to have you here. You know, for years and years and years, you're always just a public figure, like an elusive figure. You know, when I got in the mortgage industry that I was like, man, who's this? Stearns? Everywhere I see his name on every bill. Stern, Stern, Sterns. And here you are sitting in the flesh with me, just in this tiny little room, just hanging out, you know,

the incredible Glenn Stearns. And really, like, your story after watching this show Undercover Billionaire, when I saw that I was aired, and I saw it, I'm like, you talk about being able to overcome challenges, talk about being able to endure hardships. I mean, that show, Undercover Billionaire, one of the best shows I've ever seen in my life. And I think, you know, everybody who's living,

listening today should be should watch that show obviously season two wasn't as good because it didn't have glenn you know grant cardone like you know it all right you did all right but uh but glen you've been an inspiration to so many and you've really reshaped the industry as a whole well you know i appreciate that wow that's that's you know um that's a lot to take in but but the reality is you know it's all kind of We all do the best we can do. I was very fortunate to have some lofty goals, but to be able to surround myself with really strong people. I think when you aren't interested in taking all the credit, you can really do some amazing things. When you have other people that get involved and get invested in trying to climb a mountain together, you never know how you can go. And we actually did pretty well, you know, we've sailed some pretty, uh, some pretty rough seas and we've come out all right. So that's awesome.

You know, you, you've really like to come back from after selling sterns and just dive right back in and just say, you know what? I'm going back in, all in after going through, you know, some of the hardships. And we'll talk, talk about that, you know, with your health and coming, bouncing back. And, you know, it's amazing. It's amazing to hear. One thing I learned from Mindy last week when she was on the show, you know, when you did undercover billionaire and I watched it like, and I might have missed the scene or maybe my ADD didn't allow me to watch the scene, but you did it all and you weren't eating, you know, you did it all from, you know, food. Well, that's why my voice is all screwed up. I had some cancer.

That's what got me out of the business. If it hadn't been for that, I would have been continued. I love this business. business, you know. But I did, and I got cancer in my throat. So I had an operation and chemotherapy and radiation, all that stuff. And so it put me in a position where I can't eat anymore. I had to have to eat through a tube because it can go into my lungs. Then it'll end up, you know, obviously causing aspiration, pneumonia and whatnot. But we didn't want to make that part of the show. You know, the show was about building and growing a business by surrounding yourself with great people.

It was about this country and the opportunities that are in it. So you have so many people and you know this that'll go and say, you know, I don't have the lucky breaks that everybody else had. And I, you know, I'm not born with a silver spoon. And so the idea behind it was that it's really about you can, when you put your mind to anything, you can do it. And so by putting in the cancer side of it or the fact that it couldn't eat, that was a distraction. And I didn't want people to feel sorry for me. I was more about, I wanted people to be inspired that they could do anything they wanted to, if they put their minds to it. What an incredible inspiration.

And you know, Glenn, to your point, like, I'm an immigrant. I came from Egypt. And we came from absolute dirt poverty. I joke, but this is pretty serious. I'm not from regular Egypt, the Egypt that you just visited. You probably went to the nice parts. Like, I'm from this place called Helmeid al-Zatoun, which is like in Cairo. You know, Cairo has got like 100 cities or something, like little sub-cities.

But this is like the poorest city of the poor cities. So I consider myself not from a third world country. I'm from like a sixth world country. So when you come from like roots like that and then you come to America and I've been fortunate enough to have good you know significant success it's like it's very like this is truly the the land the the the the land of the greatest opportunity on the planet amen and you know it's funny because when i can just go back to that show for a second because it's not about the show but people said glennie you've had such great success in all your businesses before why would you

want to go on air and you know most likely nine 90 days build a business from $100 to a million dollars. You're more than likely going to fail. Why do you want to show people that you can't do it? Right? Like it doesn't, what upside is there? And by the way, John Elway, Richard Branson, some of these bigger influential people in my life were on air.

They cut it out of that show saying they would never do it. And I'm thinking, why would they say that until I got in the middle of the show? and I realized 100% I was going to fail. And they were right. And my kids were going to see me fail. And the world who I thought I'd shown everybody, look how well I've done in business, they were going to see me fail.

At that point, I realized I need to blow this show up. I need to walk because no one will see me fail. And I can protect myself from the embarrassment of all that. And right when I was literally going to walk away, I realized one thing. It's not about protecting them, whether you're going to make it and have people think you're great. It's about how hard you try. It's about showing my children because that's why I did it. Showing my children that you try as hard as you can.

And if I'm going down, again, I had 100% certainty. I was not going to make it. I'm going to go down swinging. And, you know, it turned out fantastic because a lot of times when we get into a hole and it's dark, we think we can never get out. And if we get good people around us, we'll crawl out of any all. And so when I think of that, I'm probably most proud of that. Again, not the show. I'm most proud that I didn't let fear run my life and I didn't quit.

But I said, I'm going to keep going. And again, it was more my own personal battle, if that makes sense. Yeah. You know, and I think that's, you know, the reality of why I think it's so important for people to really address why are they doing things. You know, I love this business and I will take the highs and the lows because it's all part of the process. You never know, you can't really appreciate the highest highs unless you, you know, you can't really appreciate the highest highs unless you. been to some pretty dark places in your life, you know. So.

And you've been, you've experienced quite a bit. And, uh, you know, it's, it continues to be an inspiration. Glenn, I like to start the show. And I know we got, we had a long intro just kind of chatting, but we're going to get right into it. I'd like to start the show with a question about you personally. Uh, it's about your, your morning routine. So what, what do you do every morning?

How does someone like you wake up every morning? How do you start your day? Well, I wake up probably five, five, 30 and I read the news. You know, I just like to get up slow myself, you know. And so that's usually my beginnings is what's going on in the world. I want to see that, you know. And then after that, I'll end up usually taking a shower and a cold plunge. Yeah. You had Mindy on. Mindy talked about that. I'll talk about cold plunge. She's got me kind of involved in that now. And then just get right at it, get to work, you know.

You have a cold plunge in your bathroom, I guess, right? Yeah. Yeah, I heard about that. And she keeps you pretty cold. It keeps you real cold. I mean, that's the thing. But, yeah, so I, you know, I'm more, you know, I don't know a lot of people have these routines. Mine is more based off of, or we talk about balance, I guess.

And my balance is not really in a daily balance, but it might be more in a month. or quarterly balance. Some days I'm head down for two weeks straight where I don't stop. And then I'll take a week and goof off or take three days or something. Yeah. You know, and so I have a different type of balance, I guess. But I still feel like I balance pretty well. But it's not as daily as other people have.

I mean, you're one of the most successful people ever in mortgage. And you don't need to work. I mean, like years ago, you didn't need to work. Like, how does someone like you continue to find that motivation? Just get up every day, 5 a.m. grind. Well, again, like I said it, it's, well, first it's never been about the money, right? It's been, I really enjoy, you know, the whole thought of home ownership. I enjoy the idea of building a bigger, you know, infrastructure and people and

and seeing what we can do and change the industry. When we were number one, um, I had gotten the cancer and sold, went around the world with my family and best time in my life, right? Just to be able to focus on the ones you love. After cancer didn't kill me, like I thought it might. I'm like, okay, it's time to go back at it. Went back in and did the mortgage thing again. And I did it because that's, again, what I really enjoy, you know.

And so it's not a job. You know, I don't have like an end game where I want to build it up and sell it. I just would like to make a difference. And we named this company kind. I think in the last 10 years, probably more of the Wall Street influence came into our sector where you had private equity and different things where they, hey, well, come work for me. I'll give you $100,000 sign. bonus, but now you're mine for two, three years. And if you leave, I'm going to sue you. So it wasn't

quite as kind as it had been. So it was pretty intentional this time. Let's go in. Let's make it kind again and fun. You know, our portal for all the brokers is called the Quicky, the happy beginnings and the happy endings, right? It's about being fast and it's about, so we joke. We have fun. We make it light. And, you know, we've grown faster. and any other mortgage business again because it isn't about just trying to make money. It's about wanting to make a difference. And you've really shown that you're making a difference. You're making a difference.

I mean, you're making a storm in the industry. You're already ranked number five in the country. And like, you're just doing. Number seven actually. Number seven. It's my salesman in me. I know, but we're a few loans away from number five. And we've grown a lot this quarter.

So I'd like to see where we are. but we're real close, right? Yeah, I mean, for just coming in, having beat cancer and just doing this, just to make a difference and get back in the swing of things, it's amazing. It's amazing to see. I remember when I saw the kind lending logo, you know, they took down the Stern's logo on the building on the 55. And then kind lending came up and I'm like, what is that? You know, who's kind lending?

You know, like, and I remember a couple years ago, now here we are. You know, you were just, you just brought it back. It was just a vision at that time. Sometimes you need motivation to do things, right? And I didn't like the way it ended. I had my name on the door before. And I didn't like how the story ended with Stern. So I said, I'm going to go back into the same building, same floor, start all over again, and do it one more time.

And so, but again, it's more about the game, right? It's not, I think so many people get in. and go, I'm going to be a millionaire. You know, it's about happiness. Yeah. And if you can follow your dreams, figure it out, the money will come. You know, it's not. But when you put that as your guiding force, you tend to run into some problems.

Yeah, it's, you know, the biggest thing for success for us, it's like, we don't chase money. You know, we chase the consumer experience. We chase, you know, our loan officer's success, making sure that they're all successful. and that's a true part of, you know, a winning team. Let me ask you this. Like, we're going to dive into your history a little bit. What age were you when you started in the mortgage industry? Well, I was, gosh, what was I?

Went out of college. So I think it was 23. I came from Maryland, graduated with a degree in partying, right? I was, I got a 2.16 grade point. I, you know, just a little bit background on that. You know, I failed fourth grade. I had a child in the eighth grade, okay, at 14. I was the first of my family to go to college.

I followed in my family's footsteps of being a nice big partier, you know, hence the 2.1 grade point average. And I was literally in a bar, 1.30 in the morning, laughing at the silliest thing. I don't even remember what that was, but in the middle of my deepest fall. I had my clearest thought. I don't want to do this anymore. I want to make something in my life. I don't want to live in a cave and think that this is what life should be about. I told my buddy, hey, let's go to California.

He's like, okay, I win. Tomorrow, tomorrow. Tomorrow, I go, yeah, see what it's about. So I ended up out of here. I was sitting on a bench, Cronid El Mar, Ocean Drive, by myself, a million-dollar homes, cars, beautiful people. I'm like, I want this life. What's it going to take to get this life? You know, I saw a man in his yard cutting the rose bushes. I walked up. I said, what did it take to get this house? I know I can do it. What it take? He's like, Signor, I'm the gardener. He's like,

I think the man's in real estate. I'm like, I'm going to get real estate. And I told my buddy, he said, let's start heading back home as I'm staying. And I stayed and got in the loan business. I was 1988. Wow. Yeah. That's a cool story. So you got in the loan business and then you, you worked for a mortgage company, a mortgage broker, right? When did you start your own company? Ten months later. Was it Stearns? It was. Same company. We called it for a specific financial. Same company. I just rebranded it with the name. I had a partner in the beginning. So yeah, I was, they say ignorance is bliss, right? I think sometimes it's better not to know what you're getting yourself into.

And it was harder than I thought, right? Isn't it always anything that you, that's worth something is always harder than you expect it to be, or you wouldn't do it, probably. And so I started 10 months after maybe about eight years into it, you know, my partner and I decided to go separate ways. He was not as motivated as I was. So I bought him out and kind of took over from there. That's awesome. That's awesome. So what do you think was the source of inspiration for you to become an entrepreneur? You know, when I was a kid, my mom would put us in the car. My sister and I and say, let's go. We're going to get lost. Let's go. Let's go get lost. And we

drive and we pull over and some farm and she'd throw our hands up. Oh no, guess what? We'd all scream. We're lost, right? And it was about finding our way back. And so I've always enjoyed not knowing where I'm going. And you can look at being lost with either fear or excitement, right? But you're going to have the same outcome. But are you going to live in fear? Are you going to actually enjoy the ride, right? And so she taught me that taking chances was something to, you know, to enjoy. And so being an entrepreneur, it's all about taking chances, right? It's all about, you know, being lost at times and finding your way and knowing you're not, you know, you're not going to stay in the hole. You're going to get out. So you have a podcast called Great Happens, and I want to ask you this.

How's great happen? Well, it's all about really life, right? Because life is not just an uphill journey. It's full of a lot of pitfalls. And it's about, as the saying goes, picking yourself back up, right? And, you know, I've had a lot of those. When you think about being a young person in an alcoholic family, and like I said, about failing fourth grade and a child and early.

But it's also. I've had cancer and I've had issues with, you know, like 2007 and eight, biggest financial crisis. You know, you got your name all over the buildings. Now they're all coming down. So life's about getting through the hard parts. And you've got to have some grit to do that. And so, you know, my book is called Integggritty, right? Where that's highlighted because.

Actually, never noticed that. I might have you sign my book after. It's actually on my desk, your book. But that's it, right? And I talk a lot about that because I think people have to realize it's not if it's when we go through the hard parts in our life. And when you do, we shouldn't fear it. We should embrace it and accept it and then find great people to help us. And I tell my kids this, that when you look at, you know, I'll use the word karma,

but it's about planting seeds. When you plant seeds, they're going to come back one day, either help you or hurt you. And give you a quick little example of my son. He was in high school, and he and a young lady, you know, got kind of caught messing around or whatever.

And he ends up getting kicked out of the school. And she didn't. and I said to him, do you think it's fair? He said, maybe. I said, I do think it's fair. And I tell you why. I said, you had 12 demerits. And they all were for little things.

You didn't have a haircut. You didn't have your tie on. You had the wrong jacket on. All these little things that meant nothing. You had grades that were Cs. She was only on the honor roll. Never had one demerit. So they looked at your past and her past.

they kicked you out and they kept her in all these little things that you don't think add up one day there's a time when people can catch you and help you or let you fall and that's that's life right so you've got to be able to realize be a good person and don't do it for the wrong reasons do it because it's it's the right thing to do and it'll come back and it'll reward you you know if i can i tell you quick thing one time. Not real good story about myself, but I'll tell it anyway. We were in a concert, my wife and I, and it started. So I ran in, you know, we were on the outside concession area.

I ran to poke my head in to see the first act because we knew the people. And the man that's standing there getting the ticket said, can see your ticket. And I said, I'm down a few rows, but I need to, you have to leave. You have to go and I go. I'm going to just wait one second. He goes, no, sir, you have to leave. And I look at him, I go, why I get a jerk? And then I just left, but I was frustrated.

And I said that. So my wife and I went down three or four, you know, more aisles down. And I go, wait a minute, I'll be right back, Mindy. I ran back to that guy. I said, hey, sir, I'm sorry. I said, you're not the jerk. I'm the jerk for saying that. And I'm very sorry.

I go to leave and he goes, hey, go on. I'm thinking, did I tell him my name? I turn around and he goes, I know who you are. And he said, I really looked up to you. And when you said that, I was so disappointed. And the fact that you've come back, it really showed me you are the guy I thought you were. And you know, and you never know. In my case, the guy knew me, but it's not about if they know you.

I didn't know he knew me. It's about you always should try to do the right thing. And by the way, we're flawed human beings. We're not always going to do it. But when we do it wrong, hey, own up to. it, man, you know? And those things in life later are going to help us, you know, because we're just doing the best we can. I mean, that could have went one of two ways. Like this, like, this could have been some pompous, billionaire guy, totally like in his head or, you know, the true

Glenn Stern's, the humble, truthful. Because in a day, I was a jerk, right? I just was frustrated. And, but, hey, own up to it, man, you know. Yeah. Let me talk about your work ethic, friend, because one of the biggest things I've been inspired by is like your strong sense of work ethic. Like, how did you get such incredible work? I guess I like what I do, you know, and for whatever reason, I always want to have people think, damn, that guy did more than he said. I like it when people are surprised that you over deliver, that I overdeliver, if that makes sense, right? And I think when we go into a job and we just want to do what it takes to get by, it shows, right? And when we do more, it sticks with people and they realize, I like that person.

I want to do more with that person. And I don't know, I don't remember how that happened, but it's worked. well for me. I think when I was a kid, my dad would always say, when we were at camping, you leave the campsite cleaner than you found it, you know. That's awesome. That's awesome. What do you think, if we were to talk about some of your bigger challenges when you started Stearns, what do you think some of the biggest challenges were when you started Stearns? Let's see, originally, probably understanding the relationships. You know, know how important it was again to communicate.

When we started, I was probably seven years into it, we had a warehouse line. And I sat down with my partner and the warehouse banker. And he says, party's over. I said, what's that mean? And he said, I've told you guys for the last three or four months, you need to put more equity in the company. And you haven't done it. And so we got to pull your credit line.

And I looked at my partner. I said, what's going on? Because I was the guy, always in the field. He was the guy inside, right? And he said, I just didn't have the heart to tell you, but we needed to put more equity. And I go, you've got to communicate. I didn't even know, you know.

And so I had said, can you give us just a couple days to come up with a plan? And then I just worked my tail off coming. with a plan to say, give me two or three months so I can get a new credit line in place. And I worked all night, got a plan together for that man, and realized I will never undercommunicate, you know, because they can come in and shut you off. And so we've always done that. We've communicated, even especially when it's not good news. You know, my wife and I, Mindy, we do what we call a vibe call with our

group in kind every month good the bad the ugly this what's going on you know if you're nervous because the business is down cut in half guess what everybody's nervous you know we just bring it up you know hey we're on our way up feeling good but communicate the good and the bad you know i love that she talked about the vibe call and uh you know i think one thing that every business lacks and what kind does really well is the communication. I think that's attributed to Mindy's growth strategy, right? Yeah. She's like, she was telling me she knows everyone's birthdays.

She knows everyone's goals. She knows everyone's dogs name. She knows, you know, talk about communication. That's like over communication over there. So good at that. My goodness. And, you know, it's funny how we started, again, here we've got this company that we can, it's a whiteboard.

We had Stearns forever. Now we're going to do a new one. What are we going to do with this? Let's put our own stamp on this, not do it the way it's been done in the past. Let's have fun. I told you about the quickie, right? All right. Let's go out there.

What does she do the first call? Maybe we have 150 people who are new. She says, hey, everybody, I'm your chief happiness officer. That's right. I'm your chief ho. I am sleeping with the boss. You know, and she made it light. She made it fun.

And, you know, we try to, you're going to be with these people more than they were going to be with their families. A lot of times are working hard, eight, ten hours. So let's laugh. Let's have some fun. And she is so great at getting people to realize that it's not just a job. You know, we're here because we're proud of what we do. We're helping homeownership. We're proud that we're growing.

in a shrinking market, right? We're proud that our company is doing better than most because we're all row in the same way. We all have passion and belief and we're happy, you know. And when you look at money, I'll go back to that one more time. It's one form of currency. There's so many others, happiness being a big one. And when you add that, when you realize that is equally as important. Then you've got a mindset and you've got a culture that can can do things that other companies aren't able to do because they just don't get it. Five o'clock, time for me to go. I don't care. The only thing keeping me here is money. That's a sad existence for a company. And they don't explode with growth and they don't become a place people want to work at, you know.

So we've somehow, I think we've got the right ingredients this time has been working. That's actually a great segue into my next question. It's like, Kind does a great job at fostering talent. What are some of the secrets to fostering talent at Kind? Well, first we, you know, when you have other people that are your investors and owners and they expect things out of you. Sometimes you can live, I'm going back to the fear analogy, you can live in fear.

And when you make a mistake, don't mention the mistake or it's going to be a reflection of this team. And then what happens to your voice gets silenced because everybody's mad at you for bringing up mistakes. In our case, we celebrate mistakes. That's a weird concept. But we mean is thank you for finding the mistake early, right?

We appreciate it. We're all human. And there's going to be a million mistakes in this company made. Find it quick. Thank you, thank you. Thank you. Let's fix it. Let's move on.

Do the same thing with the auditors. When they come in, again, just because I lived the past life with people that didn't quite think the same way, put the auditor in a hot room, right? No windows and bake them out, right? No, we go, hey, let's put, what would you like? Here's a beautiful room of the view. My lawyers don't let them walk around the floor. What if they see something?

What if they talk to people? Or the exact opposite, go, talk to anybody you want, pick up files, find what you can. You, Mr. Auditor, you're here to make us better. So whatever you can find we'll be thankful for. So when you look at it that way versus, oh my gosh, what are they going to find? We're going to be in trouble. We don't do things wrong on purpose. We may do things wrong by accident.

Let's fix it. And that way you don't get fined by them and all this stuff usually unless you're doing something bad, right? But when you do stuff wrong and you just need to tweak it, they're pretty reasonable people usually. And so we're out there telling them, find what you can, tell us. And it works. And so there's a completely different view of how to treat people and how to treat situations. You know, I've had that view with with auditors. Actually, it's like, hey, these auditors come in. They perfect our business. They hold me accountable and they figure out things that I'll never in my life figure out what to do. You know, like they're looking at, they're just here to improve us.

Same thing with like our personal trainer or whatever, right? They're just like critiquing us. And that's it, that's an incredible way for people to take perspective on life. Just like constructive criticism. And, you know, kind of all goes down our like faith. Like, you know, fall hard, fall fast, get up.

Fall hard, fall fast, get up. Right. Now, you know, you're, you're continuing to, to crush it in business. And now like, what do you think your why is for doing all this? I've always enjoyed the game.

There's a gentleman a lot of people who would know his name is T. Boone Pickens. You heard of Boone Pickens? He was in oil and gas. He passed away a couple years ago. And Boone was a billionaire. I mean,

this guy was a businessman. Like, what year was he was in the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s? A billionaire in the 90s. A billionaire in the 90s. It's like a trillioner now. The man was, oh, when was he a billionaire?

Probably in the 90s, 80s, 90s, 2000s, whatever. And so I was with Boone at his ranch in Texas. And I said, Boone, you were a billionaire and you went flat broke. He became a billionaire again. And you went flat broke. I go, now you're a billionaire. here. I said, why are you doing it again? And he says, son, I just like being in the game. You know, when you look at it again, he did not fear money. He did not think of it that way. It's a game.

You know, why do you drive down the road and you kind of like to reel in the next car and catch up to it? You know, it's a, I don't know, it's a game a little bit, you know? And I mean, I don't do it because, again, there's money involved. I like to see growth. I like to see hard work pay off. I like to see happy people. I like to see an idea come to, you know, fruition and then become something great. It's a neat, you know, way to kind of see if you're living. You know, I don't want to sit on a couch.

I don't want to, you know, when you think about it. I'll tell you another thing you talk about me, not being able to eat, right? think about this. I have cancer. I cannot eat or drink anything. When I've been I've been sipping this to keep my mouth wet, but I spit the water back out, right? But I can't because it'll go into my lungs. Poor me, man.

I do not feel that way at all. Not at all. I am grateful to be alive. Okay, grateful. And so you have a couple of things you can do. Not just about this. I'm not trying to put the attention to me, but in anything, in any situation happens in your life. You can be the victim or the victor, right? It's all mindset.

In my case, what am I going to do? I have more dinners now than I ever had. I have people over. I cook. I want to be a part of the game. How is it? What's going? You know, I eat my shakes. I'm good. If you had a pizza and you came over for lunch, are you going to feel sorry because you're not eating lunch? You already ate, right? I just ate. I had my shake. I make sure people understand. Don't feel bad. I don't feel bad. Right. Like, I'm here because I like the social aspect. I'm here. I want to cook for you. I want to see how you like it. I never cooked until I couldn't eat. What am I going to do? Sit in my room. I feel sorry for myself. It's your attitude. It's how you, it's you've got a choice. We all have a choice.

and you just you make your choice and you live with it you know the victor attitude not the victim amen the victor attitude and that's something like i'm hoping all the listeners like the woe was me the victim's like are you a victim or you a victor and you you're a true victor not only a regular victor like you're a champion like sitting there dead broke in erie pennsylvania going from a $200 million yacht to a $500 broke down truck, not being able to eat, not being able to drink in freezing climate. It was wild. What the hell were you thinking? Well, you know, what I found, I told you earlier that they had interviewed a couple big, important friends of mine with being Lway when he was on the boat with me when they came and took me.

and Richard Branson, and they said, would you ever like to start over again? And they both said, no way. And I thought, why do they feel that way, right? What cancer taught me, I used to say, oh, my gosh, 2007 and eight, the worst years of my life. I mean, going, we were so far underwater, the mortgage business, we thought we're going to lose everything. And I had to go and negotiate. I had to take a clipboard. and go to every single person I owed money to.

We had $100 million of buyback loans, class action lawsuits, lost 85% of our business. I mean, the world was crumbling. And I used to tell people, I never want to go through that again. And then I got cancer. I thought I was going to die. And I thought, what I would do to live and do that again, to fight that again.

So again, it became a just matter of perspective. So sitting there going, wow, this would be kind of fun. Start with nothing. Sleep in my truck. Have no idea what I'm going to do. See if I can build a million dollar business in 90 days. Sounds fun. Halfway through, like I told you, didn't feel so fun. All of a sudden, fear kicked in. I'm not going to make it. I'm going to be a fool. My kids are going to see me be a fool. And instead, I fought, fought, fought did not give up. And I'm extremely proud of what came out of it. More, Same thing with life. It's the same thing, right? That was just a silly show. But for me, it was a microcosm of real life. And it wasn't about the show. It was about wanting to give up. The devil on your shoulder, just give up. Just just one time. Give up. You don't have to give up again. If ever you give into that voice, you will always give into that voice. Don't give up. I love that, Glenn. And I want to turn this conversation into like more parental because one thing I really admire about what you've done as a father. is you've raised some incredible kids. And one thing I took notice of is when I went to the event at your house, and you had your son valeting the cars.

Like, you know, they're living in a, you know, God knows how much the house is worth house. And, you know, he's so humble that he's valuing the cars. And to raise children with that sort of humility in a place where they're like, they're not spoiled. And I told many of this last one. I'm like, wow, you've done a great job, like parenting these kids. you. That's very intentional too. I found every, you know, my lawyer has a great, he wrote a book.

And part of it in there talks about for everything we give our children, we take something away, right? So if we don't allow them struggle and adversity, they don't get to build character. And it's very true. And, you know, when my son was in eighth grade, he wanted to go to, DC and New York on a school trip. Yeah. And did Mindy talk about this? No. So he said,

Dad, can I go on the trip? I said, absolutely. I said, how much is it? He says, $2,500. So it's great. I said, I'm even willing to pay half. Half. How am I going to come up with $1,250?

I said, let's think of how you can do that. It was September. I said, you got all year. Let's figure it out. And we came up with the idea maybe he could cut the grass. So I said, let's find out with the gardener. I pay him for that part. And it ended up being $50 every time.

So I said, I'll pay you $50. Of course, I had to go buy a $1,200 lawnmower. I didn't have a lawnmower, but that's another story. I wanted to teach him less. I mean, you know, the value of hard work. So he starts cutting the grass. He calls me. Now, we're right here across the street from you.

my home is down in Newport. Hey, dad, I cut the grass. I said, great. Stay right there. I drive home. I walk the yard with him. You missed the spot. You missed a spot.

I said, son, next time, if you miss a spot, it's $10 off. And the time after that, it's 20. And eventually, you're going to pay me to do the yard. If you're going to do a job, do it right. I mean, this kid must have thought was the biggest jerk, right? I leave four days later or whatever it is. wants to cut the grass quick. He calls me. Dad, cut the grass. Don't move. Drive home. Walk the yard with him. Great job, son. Right? Shake his hand. He gets all the way through to May.

Dad, I've got all the money. And the deal was you have to leave $100 in your bank account, okay? I have that as a buffer. I got all the money and I had this extra money. And yesterday I bought a PlayStation and I had 500 extra, but I did not remember the tax. So I've got the money for you, the $12.50, but I don't have the full $100. And so I'm short, $40. And I said, son, very sorry. You can't go. I said, it deals a deal.

We made a deal. We can't go. Dad, but I can still cut the grass tonight. I can cut it. I still cut the grass. So he cuts the grass. We're inside. Mindy and I, my sister are inside. And he comes in defeat it. He says, Dad, it's dark. I can't finish. I said, son, then you can't go. We have a deal. He walked downstairs so just heartbroken. My wife looks at me. I'm going to tear my head off. I just give her the signal. Just stay right there. I walk downstairs, go into the drawer. Get a flashlight.

Let's go, son. I walked that yard with him with a flashlight. He finished cutting the grass. Got his 50 bucks. Great job. He went off to his trip. That next year he went to go to a school. They asked him to write an essay,

what are you most proud of? What do you think he wrote about? I'm most proud. I paid my way. Now, when we hand our kids something, it's a completely different story, you know. But when you're able to give them ideas, hey, you can still cut the grass. Hey, it might not be conventional, but we'll cut it with a flashlight.

You know, you're giving, you got to get them at their wheel spin. You have to give them ideas. You know, yeah, there's, you know, it doesn't always work out the way you want it. But it's about using your brain. It's about keeping your word. It's about a lot of different things. And so, I don't know. I just think they're good kids because they haven't been handed everything.

You know, and we want to do that. Man, I want to give them everything I didn't have because I grew up hard. But that's not going to help later in life. It doesn't give them the tools they need, you know. And that's a terrifying thing, you know, living in Newport and being around wealth. And like my kids go to like famous football players houses to play basketball or football. Like, you know, like these are like pro athletes that are like, like actively in the like I would have never my life dreamed no beat these people yeah my

kids are just like they they don't know any better right yeah they don't know anything like oh this guy like you know it's on my baseball team or like whatever you know it's funny I had um uh cow ripkin at my home and I said to my kids hey do you want to come meet cal that's okay dad Lway that's okay dad um this early on we became partners later but but all these people I had that were at the house. That's okay. And then he sees a picture. And he's like, what was her name?

Who was the girl from MTV? And she was dating Dennis Rodman. Oh, yeah. Shoot, I forgot her name. Carmen Electro. I'm welcome in my kid. My son goes, Dad, Carmen Electro is that her house? I go, yeah.

He goes, why didn't you? you tell me, I go, I've told you about 50 people. He goes, I would have been famous in my school if I had a picture of there. I go, oh, you're getting a little older now, son, you know. Yeah, it's just relative, right? They don't care about Cal Ripkin. I care about Cal Ripon. They don't care about John L.A. I care about John L.A. Like, those people, no significance, no cultural significance, although they're cultural icons, but it's all relative, you know, like it's a different generation. And even Carmel Electric now, it wouldn't be very cool now. That wouldn't be like anyone that like.

Every dog has their day. Exactly. So we're going to dive into like, you know, just the next steps, like the vision for kind lending, like what do you envision kind lending being in the next couple of years? Well, I love where we're headed. You know, we've been doing some events, the vibe event, which is about personal growth. Yeah. We intentionally want to bring people in that can, you know,

and help the mindset, right? Yeah. That we are here, not to make money, but we're here to better our lives and other people's lives. So we took that on. And now you see other mortgage companies doing the same thing. Yeah. I get the call.

I was telling you this earlier, hey, so-and-so is copying us. So am I good. Flattery. I mean, what do you call it? Copying is the best. Yeah. Right.

And so it's good to be copied. It's okay to have people take your idea. I don't look at that again. Abundant mindset, scarcity mindset, right? But the idea was to get in here and hopefully change the industry to be more kind. And also to be much more thoughtful in trying to have people realize that what we're trying to do is help them live their life fuller. You know, and so if we can do that and, you know, other people realize that the rest of the industry is doing stuff like that, that makes me happy. I love that. I love that.

Now, you're a little bit more cautious with your business, but do you think that you'll still be taking big risks with kind in comparison of what you're doing at the CERNs? I mean, I'll be asking you to take some risk with us. Well, I mean, I don't know what kind of risks you mean. I mean, obviously, we don't, you know, this industry. You're going to go down to 500 FICO. You're going to do like the funky stuff, crazy products. I mean, I know you're diving into non-QM. Yeah, we're diving in non-QM.

We were down to 580 in the FICO, but we were down like 500. You were doing crazy stuff at Stearns before. And it's a different time right now, right? So we'll continue to look at that and see the balance of if it, if it helps people and if it can also not hurt the company. There's a fine line on that, you know. And so we, we want to, you know, again, we were, most people were doing 620, 640 a couple years ago. We were down at 580 again because we were helping that segment.

There wasn't a lot of lenders out there doing that. Yeah, but the juggernauts are in the 580 bucket now. They've switched, yeah. Yeah. Again, I'm flattered. Hey, come on. Keep following us. You know, we're the little guys, you know.

I love it. Now, I want to wrap up with a couple questions. The first one, we kind of already alluded to this. But what do you think? This is a three-prong question. What's a personal goal that you have for yourself? What's a family goal that you have for the family? And what is a business goal that you have?

have for kind. Yeah, we kind of touched on it. I'd say that personally, I, well, that what's called a goal, I'm going to say, again, more of a, I'll use the word mindset again. You know, all my great mentors that are now in their, they're either passed away or they're in their 80s and 90s, have continued to work, have continued to have a purpose, right? And you never see that many people that are old that are not active unless they stop becoming active and then they don't seem to hang around very long. But the ones that are active. So I want to continue doing what I'm doing.

Again, people keep asking, you know, what's your exit strategy? and I say, you know, a pine box, right? Like, I don't have one. I don't want one. And so I want to keep growing and trying to make a difference. You know, the company and the show both taught me that a young, you know, I grew up with bars on the windows, you know, but an apartment with alcoholic parents. again, child at 14, no idea of how far I could grow and make a difference in other people's life. And so to look at that type of opportunity from nothing, not having a lot of mentors,

if I can help people realize they can achieve their dreams, that's why I lead with my flaws. I don't go out there talking that life is perfect and look at all the great things I have. I start out with look at all the crap that happened in my life. Why? So you started the book too. Yeah, that is exactly. And it's because I want people to go, damn, if that guy can do it, I can do it. That makes me happy knowing that anybody can do it as long as you are intentional, right?

You write stuff down. You get good people with you and you attack it. You go after it. You can do anything. So I like that. It drives me personally, right? I want my business to change the industry. It's fun this time.

And it's changing the industry. And I'll take some credit for it. I'm not trying to be bragging. I'm saying I like being copied. And I like people, you know, going, hey, we got to do what they're doing. And I hope is a kinder place. You love the game. Love the game.

I love playing the game with you. Yeah. I know we're going to do that. Keep doing it. Awesome. One last question. Last question. My favorite question.

When you're in front of the pearly gates, what's God going to tell you? Yeah. You know, if I were to get hit by a truck today, I would be as happy where I am in my life. And I hope I can keep that up, meaning I've tried very hard, as they say, to much is given, much is required.

I've tried to give back. I've tried to be a good example to my family. I've lived my life with integrity. I've tried to be an example to people that they can achieve their dreams. And, you know, I think, you know, I was reading a poem last night to my kids called Amandis. And I don't know if you know that poem, Osamandius. about two people that are out in the desert and they come on this big statue of a man. It's tumbled into the sand. And when they read the bottom of it, it says, look upon my vast empire

and fear me for everything. I am the king of kings. I am Azamandias. And it shows this crumpled, statue that in that sand going forever meaning nothing lasts forever. We are. And so can we pass on goodness to other people and let that live on forever? Can we let our kindness move on? That's awesome, Glenn. Hey, that's what it's about. Yeah.

That's what it's about. Well, God bless you, Glenn. Thank you for coming on today's show. So just the thought of that poem is like, that's a great poem. I want to read that poem. I'm reading it to my, but my kids wouldn't understand it,

but I would understand it. They'll get there. They're eight and nine, right? Yeah, they get there. And eight, three, two. Maybe my 10-year-old would. She's brilliant. But the thought is, it hits home.

Yeah. Just because it just speaks to life and how. She's Shelley. She's Shelly, I think it is. Yeah. That's really cool. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that.

Glenn, it's been such a pleasure. pleasure to have you on today's show. Coffees for Closers, Glenn Stearns, the man, the myth, the legend. Make sure you watch undercover billionaire on Discovery as well. Thanks, Jim. God bless you, man. Thank you.

Thank you for your inspiration. Thank you, everybody. Ben Stearns, coffees for closers. Thanks for watching that, everybody.