Coffeez with Joe Shalaby - Mortgage Magic ft. MMI CEO Ben Teerlink | Coffeez for Closers with Joe Shalaby Ep. 27

Episode Date: July 12, 2024

Ben Teerlink is the founder and CEO of Mobility Market Intelligence (MMI), a leading provider of data intelligence and market insight tools for the mortgage and real estate industries.Under his leadership, MMI serves over 350 enterprise customers, including 20 of the top 25 lenders in the U.S.Teerlink's innovative approach earned him the 2022 Tech Trendsetter award by HousingWire.MMI has thrived despite market volatility, ranking among Utah's fastest-growing companies and making the Inc. 5000 list.With a background in real estate and data analytics, Teerlink has driven MMI's mission to provide actionable intelligence for optimizing business strategies.His commitment to innovation and excellence has solidified MMI's reputation as a critical industry resource.For more, check out our playlist: https://music.youtube.com/playlist?li...Check us out on all platforms!Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2KkQWRq...Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Coffeez-Closer...Coffeez and Closers Socials & WebsiteWebsite: https://coffeezforclosers.com/Instagram: https://instagram.com/coffeezforclosersTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@coffeezforclo...Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/people/Coffe...Joe Shalaby SocialsInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/josephshalaby/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@josephshalabyFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/josephshalabyE Mortgage Capital Socials & WebsiteInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/emortgageca...Website: https://www.emortgagecapital.com/Twitter: https://twitter.com/Emortgagecap#1 Mortgage Company on Social 🌎#1 Non Delegated Lender in the Country 🌟#1 Broker in CANMLS #1416824"Mortgages Are What We Do, Not Who We Are"™https://finance.yahoo.com/news/learn-...Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

What's up, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Coffee's Proclosers where success is served hot. Today, we have an extraordinary guest who has made remarkable waves in the mortgage industry. Our guest is the innovative leader and visionary behind mobility market intelligence, otherwise known as MMI, a company renowned for its comprehensive real estate and mortgage transaction database, which covers over 90%, it actually covers over 95% of all U.S. households. MMI's data intelligence and market insight tools have become indispensable for professionals across the mortgage and real estate and title sectors. Here, eMortgage capital, MMI is a crucial part of our recruitment process and overall B2B marketing.

Please join me in welcoming the founder and CEO of MMI, Mr. Ben Tierley. Thanks. I appreciate you. That sounded pretty official. You know, that was, I think, the nicest intro to anyone's ever given me. Oh, thank you, Ben. You know, we like to bring it in high. Yeah, it was good.

Yeah. So, and thank you, Ben. Thank you for coming in from Salt Lake. Salt Lake City. All the way from Salt Lake to beautiful Newport Beach. What do you think so far? You know, how's the weather in comparison right now? You know, pretty comparable right now.

Yeah, it's a mighty, me a little warmer in Salt Lake City right now, which is very strange. You know, there's only a, you know, a small amount of time in the year that that happens. But, yeah, we had a little warm spell in Utah, almost at the June gloom here, you know, down in Newport. Yeah, I know. It's a... It is hard to play. to beat. So we love it here. Yeah, yeah. And I know you'd like to spend some time here every year. So I look forward to

hanging out with you more. Yeah, it's going to be good. It's going to be good. So Ben, I like to start every podcast off the same way with all our guests is what is Ben Tierlinks morning routine? What's my morning routine? Yeah. All right. We're going to get raw and real here. Oh, this is going to be a real and raw podcast. So get ready. Here's the funny part about my morning. So without fail, I have two boxer dogs. So probably around 6 o'clock, 615. One of the dogs will get off the bed, come around to the side, and she hops up and like literally will like paw me like on my shoulder until I get up and take her outside. So she's the alarm clock. If I'm out of town, she's, I'm out of town. She's, not there, then, you know, I struggle because she's what wakes me up every single morning. So she wakes me up, go down, feed the dogs, let the dogs out. Then I start waking up kids based on who's got to go to school first and, you know, start getting everyone going, then get ready, go through a bunch of emails,

do a few things, drive some kids, and then cruise on into the office. So it's, you know, pretty, pretty dull, but, you know, always starts with the dogs. They stay in the house of dogs? Dogs are always in the house. I think my wife likes those dogs more than she likes me, you know? So they, yeah. They sleep in your room, then? They do.

They sleep in the room, yeah. So 5 a.m. or so they're up, waking you up? Yeah, a little after around 6, yeah, yeah. Nice, nice. All right, good deal. So let me ask you, how did you get started? started with the idea of starting MMI. Yeah, you know, it was interesting without boring, you know, I started out as a real estate

agent. So, you know, I had got my real estate license with selling houses and started building some technology, really to use for our own real estate team that we had created. And as we created that, the downturn hit, you know, recession, what, 2008? nine. And so we had built this technology and thought, you know, this is pretty cool stuff for ourselves, but with the real estate market doing what it did, a lot of the builders we worked with were struggling. And so we jumped all into doing kind of a real estate technology and started selling what we had to other real estate companies and brokerages. And as we were doing that, it was really more of a home search product and platform. And we'd co-brand it to realtor. and loan officers. And as we were doing those things, we just kept hearing from our lenders. They would say, you know, like we love these co-branded tools.

We just don't know which agents we should be talking to. You know, we go into an office, and we don't know if an agent's, you know, full-time, and if they're doing a lot of business, hardly doing any business at all. It'd be really cool if someone could tell us that. And so we kind of sat there for a minute. We're like, I think we can show you that.

So we started building it, creating it, really with that kind of idea in mind. And when we rolled it out, you know, started showing people, the reaction was pretty awesome. And 08, 2009, like, what were you using to aggregate that data? Yeah. So if you rewind out of 08,09, we were building home search apps initially. And, you know, it was crazy because we'd go into real estate offices and this is kind of how it dates it.

telling agents that it was going to move away from their trios and their Blackberries and people were going to be using iPhones and androids and they look at us like we're crazy. And so you'd like try to pull up pictures of homes on your phone and it would like load like, you know, step by step. It was pretty crazy. So that was clear back what we were doing and just, you know, storing some stuff locally, totally different world than it is today. But, uh, Yep, that's how we started. Nice. So you started with the crazy idea and it materialized.

Did you do the development yourself? No. Had much smarter people than me build it out, you know, just kind of sat there and had our team, you know, kind of listened to me. And sometimes I think they'd look at me like, why do you want that? Like I guess we can put that together.

And then we'd go out and talk to clients and say, all right, is this what you want? Is this helpful? What do you think about this? Yeah. And we'd keep going back to the drawing board and adding things and, you know, adjusting things. And yeah. I love that you have that same mindset.

You still go out to your clients and go, Joe, do you think this would be useful? Hell yeah, I think that would be useful. Yeah, absolutely. And where are you getting a lot of that vision for MMI now? Because the stuff that you're working on is like, so for us, you know, and for me, you know, I have been in the business myself. So was an agent, worked with a lot of lenders,

tried to help clients get approved and buy homes. So I think we have a pretty good general idea of the industry and how it works. And what we've made sure of is that, you know, we continually ask those people that are in it every single day and make sure as we hear them, then we can, you know, start building the things that are needed. I think so often, you know, people start building stuff out that they think is a cool idea, but they haven't really checked to see if it's needed or wanted or whatever.

So we do a lot of listening, and that really spurs a whole lot of cool ideas, and then we just execute on them and go make it happen. That's great. I mean, I remember getting on to MMI like two and a half years ago, And I was like, whoa, where has this been on my life? Now, now I can really, like, identify who's lying, who's telling the truth, who's producing in real estate, what loan officers are actually doing any business. And before MMI, everybody just was, they could tell you what they wanted. Yeah.

And I'm like, and you would just have to just accept it. Like, oh, I funded 20 million last month. Matter of fact, people still, when they apply, they'll put like a ridiculous number as if I don't have MMI. It's still the thing, like, as if, like, I still get, like, I get people trying to BS me, and I'm like, oh, really, that's what you, that's what you closed. Hmm. Well, the facts state that, uh, you only did this much. Well, that's because so this, this, this and this. And like, oh, hmm.

Yeah. Person on my team closed all the deals, but, you know. Yeah, that person didn't. Helped them. Yeah. I was there for it. Exactly. My company did it.

Right. Yeah. Oh, that's what you mean by production. in my personal production. Exactly. You know, and it's, it's been cool to,

like, watch that, you know? It's funny, too, because we would find, even ourselves, like, you kind of go down

the rabbit hole, you know, you'd, like, click and look at someone, and then you'd be like, wait a minute, how about that person in their office?

Then you click on that, and it's like, wait, they're working with this agent. Are they doing, you know, builder business? Do you click on them?

And, like, an hour and a half later, you're like, all right, I've just been, like, click and look at a bunch of people. I've got to go get something done.

Yeah. It is. It's kind of fun, you know, being able to see everything that's going on and who's doing what. It's really, you know, you're one of the companies that really truly revolutionized the mortgage industry because, you know, you guys are now, through your technology, like we as mortgage professionals now have data that actually shows people's real true production that, so you you guys innovated and brought something that really like, you know, changes the game for all of us mortgage professionals.

That's very cool to hear. So thank you, you know. The data had been around for a long, long time. It was just a matter of putting it in front of people in a, you know, usable, you know, way because it was just a big old bulk file of stuff, you know. And so it was cool to be able to put it together and make it easy so people could use it. Yeah, it's good. I always wanted to ask you, like, you made the UI on the home page like Google. Like, it's like dummy proof.

Like, there's like just, you have no option but like this, you know. We still, even with that, right, there's like three buttons initially. Like, have people be like, hey, like, it's not working. And we're like, well, what do you mean? They're like, well, it's just, there's nothing on the page. We're like, we have to click on one of those buttons. And then it was like, oh, okay. And then you have to get there dropped.

down. But, you know, even with it that simple, we still had some users that were like, yeah, I don't know how to use it. You're like, click search. Click. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. That thing that's called a mouse and you, you know, click on it and it'll do this. But, you know, we tried to make it just really, really simple because I think when you overcomplicate things, people won't use it. And, you know, I think people appreciate that, that sometimes you don't want to look at a a big old spreadsheet or a complicated kind of thing. You just want to see pretty straightforward, easy to use. Yeah, yeah.

It's really like a Google for mortgage professionals. Yeah, yeah, it really is. I mean, that's how I use it. Like, I can get my data in seconds. Yeah. But with that, like the simplicity of it, it's such a powerful tool. Because, you know, I know for a fact that I don't use many of the feet,

features of MMI. So given the simplicity, like you still have a lot of trainings around MMI, a lot of people kind of learning how to really leverage the tool properly and implement into their existing ecosystems. Yeah. And that's one thing that, you know, we've realized is, you know, as time goes on, we continually listen and people say like, oh, it'd be really cool if you could, you know, have this capability or search or filter this way or do this or that.

So our team will go create that. And so now it's a matter of helping everyone understand all the things that it does have. Because I think in the beginning, people would come in and do, like you said, kind of that Google search, right? Yeah. You just come in, check production, kind of see who's doing what. And now there's so many additional things you can do that, you know, we're trying to let everyone know all the extra things that have been added to it. So it's it's a and you guys just continue to add some more integrations more capabilities we got the the credit trigger thing coming out where you got the the the bulk imports now as a feature

yeah I mean it's just oh yeah prop intel as well so the property intelligence pages I wish pretty cool so that's going to be amazing yeah I'm really excited about the property intelligence I'm really excited about the bulk imports. I love the integration between Bonzo. Let me ask you, because I got a series of questions to ask you, but this is just for my own personal knowledge. What inspired, or actually, like, what were you thinking when you purchase Bonzo, like, for a data company to buy a CRM technology and like the vision behind that?

Yeah. So, you know, when we were all sitting at home, you know, early 2020, I wondering what the world was going on, you know, with COVID, I got on a Zoom call with Miles and Jason over at Bonzo. And, you know, they were looking into MMI. So I gave them a little demo of what we were doing. They kind of did the same of where they were at with Bonzo. And, you know, we hit it off. you know, add some good conversations and just started to kind of do some integrations and some things, you know, at that point. And then, you know, as time went on, we started realizing,

you know, we have all this data and we can point a lot of things out to an individual or to a company. But, you know, what we got a little frustrated with was, you know, we can point something out, but if you don't go do anything about it, then it's really not doing you a whole lot of good. Yeah. So, you know, the initial thought was, hey, look, we can push out to these, you know, other groups and then they can take action. And we just kind of got tired of relying on third parties to be able to deliver it the way

that we wanted to. And so, you know, with what Bonzo is and was doing and what we have, we just thought it was just the perfect combination to take everything that we have, create automations, create, you know, just an awesome way to communicate with the opportunities that MMI finds for you. Yeah, that vision, which, by the way, hasn't, it's now, after 18 months in development, now is this in the next quarter is really starting to be implemented. So people have no idea of what we're talking about. Right.

Yeah, this is all new. A couple beta testers. I mean, I remember talking to you, Ben, when you were giving me the vision, I'm like, that can happen. And you're like, yeah, we're going to make that happen. Like, as soon as trigger hits, like, and it's in your area. And it's, you know, someone you worked with or whatever, like, or they worked with your realtor. Like, you're going to get, no, and they're going to get a message from you.

They're going to get a text from you. Like, really? That can happen? Like, without even me, no. I'll be sleeping and doing business. Like, without even me knowing, I'll be prospecting, other than all the normal capabilities. but like prospecting with past with your ecosystem with your past clients and clients that worked with your realtor database, etc. Like this is like taking automation to a new level.

It really is. You know, and I think everyone gets busy with their day to day. And so those things that we can see are effective or, you know, an opportunity that you might not have time for. If we can automate that and have it doing it for you in the background, then it allows you to jump in at the stage, you know, where it's, you know, what you're really good at doing. And that is helping someone then, you know, with the loan and closing a deal. So it's kind of fun to let all those things be happening and really kind of tee up yellow to have some success. So it's good. I think that's also going to be like the major distinguishment for.

people who want to win right now is that they have to get in front of that client first before the client decides I want to work with AI because this whole AI revolution that's happening people will be like I don't want to work out with an LO but if you're in front of that client first you're going to get the client you know he's not going to go to your your AI bot he's going to work with you because you got him first although you did use automation to get to him yeah right and it's those personal touches you know like to just to communicate with them about something that is, you know, um, helpful to them. Yeah. And I think it's, you know, the individual reaches out, hey, here's this, this and this, just wanted to let you know

or give this to you, provide this. You know, it, it builds that relationship. And I really do think a lot of it is still relationship based, you know. Relationships will always win. Relationships will always win. Um, and then that's something that you guys, guys are kind of fostering as well is that additional human touch through Bonzo even though it's automated but there is that you know that personality that's being delivered through the bonzo automation workflows right right you know um the AI tools and everything that we're bringing in are amazing i'm excited yeah jason chat had not touched on it talking a little bit about it um but you know it's still the individual right it's it's them it's that you know um still

damn it's just uh working for you while you're sleeping you know um it's it's pretty cool yeah so i mean we haven't even started this show by the way yet because uh we just kind of got off on this tangent so i i really really uh were very much in the very beginning of this episode so i like to start chatting with someone about their entrepreneur journey um what inspired you you think to become an entrepreneur it's not for everybody and you know yeah it's always for crazy people. I was going to say, I think I'm just crazy. Um, you know, I, it's interesting. Um, I was not a great student. Um, struggled to sit in class, you know, um, you know, just always thinking of things and, you know, you should do this or try that. And, um, so I think it was just

kind of baked in, you know, that, uh, was always trying to do something, um, build something. Um, thing and you know you try some and you know they don't go quite so well and you know you have to pick yourself up and go try something else but it was just that excitement of like what if I create something and it does this and then people would like it and use it and you know it's it's weird but it's fulfilling it's fun yeah every day for me is fun and it doesn't feel like work because you get to create stuff and I like that so and you're a creator organically that's like what that what year did you know you're going to be an entrepreneur like was it 08 oh 9 that that's when was it before was it when you were a kid yeah as fun as a kid I think you know um just always kind of wanted to go it's very

strange like my parents laughed and they're like I used to tell them that I wanted to be an inventor and it was like what's an inventor you know and my ideas back then where like, you know, spring shoes. And then, you know, I saw them in like the Sears catalog. And it was like, dang, someone did spring shoes. And then it was, you know, other random things. And it was just always wanted to make something, do something. So I don't know. It's, uh, maybe my wife wishes that I would just not have so many ideas and go try so many random things. But, uh, it's just kind of baked into me. It's what it is.

Sounds like my wife with me. It's like another cockamamie. Right. Like, what's this idea? Like, you're, yeah. What are you talking about? That idea. And it's like, okay, okay.

So, yeah, it's pretty fun. Yeah, my poor wife, you know, like, God bless her. It's like, it's, uh. My wife is very patient. Yeah, very patient. Like, you know, very grateful that she, been along for the ride and all the craziness of, you know, the ups and downs.

building the business, you know, but it's rewarding and awesome when you have that support and everything else, because it's not easy. No, no, the entrepreneur's journey is very bumpy. Yeah, it is very bumpy. And I think often people see the end result, maybe some success from, you know, different entrepreneurs. and I think they don't realize often the scary days, the brutal days, you know, the days that you go, what, what am I doing? What was I thinking? But you power through it. And, you know, so it's, again, it's an awesome path and journey and you learn a lot as you go through it. But yeah, it's not for everybody. That's actually my next question. It's like, what was like the hardest thing you dealt with building MMI?

You know, I think for me, we had to do a lot of different pivots. I mean, we started in 2009. And in 2009, it was a home search app. We were selling directly to real estate agents in the worst real estate market that anyone had seen for a long, long time. So, you know, trying to get it off the ground, build it, learn what all that was about. and, you know, at the same time, having a family, four kids, wife, you know, house payment, car payments, you know, all those things. You know, it's a grind and it can get really tight and, you know, even scary at points. So there were many times that I think, you know, you kind of look around and you say, how am I going to make it?

But so I'd say those are some of the most challenging things. knowing that where you're headed is going to be worth it and that you're going to keep going, but getting pretty close sometimes on that journey, those were tough. I mean, you guys didn't dominate really to like 2020. That was a long journey. And we did.

We had several things that we had to do and pivot and adjust and change. and, you know, our first version of MMI, you know, we rolled out summer of 2018. So prior to that, we were a home search app co-branded. What was it called? Mobility RE for mobility real estate. And it was essentially, and product's still there. You know, we still utilize it. Some really cool things that we're doing with it, bringing it into.

MMI? Yeah, yeah. People don't even know they get mobility R3. with MMI. Yeah. So that was it in the beginning. It was just a home search app. And it was for realtors and loan officers and give it to your clients instead of having them go search on Zillow or, you know, Realtor.com or something.

So that was the beginning, but it wasn't until 2018. So many years before, you know. Yeah, mobility already definitely didn't get you to where you're at now. And it was like, it's hard to give it the value that it deserves because everyone's like, I'll just use Zillow. It's so easy. I don't need to use this custom app. Right. But I guess at the time, there wasn't any real, like, Zillow wasn't a great app.

There was, you were a true custom white-labeled app. Yeah, which, you know, was, I think, a nice thing for the agents. It was just a challenge then to, I mean, like I said, we were telling, like, realtors, hey, it's not going to work very well on your Blackberry, but, you know, I promise it'll be cool later. You know, you should still buy it and get an iPhone and they kind of look at you. Nope, this keyboard's too good. Like, yeah. He's not going anywhere.

Oh, my gosh. By the way, I never want to get rid of my Blackberry. Right. And it was a tough adjustment for me to... It was tough. And then he looked at this like, like, just a weird, completely flat device you're holding. Where's the keyboard? Yeah.

What am I going to do with this? Yeah, I remember that transition was rough for me. It was. I actually went from Blackberry to an Android phone. Did you? Yeah. And then... So the question is, you still...

No, no, no. I mean, I switched off Android years ago. Okay, yeah. Years ago. But I then remember loving the, you know, the smartphone Android. And then, you know, switching from Android to Apple, then I'm like, wow, this is what I really should have switched to in the beginning. Yeah. Yeah, I went from a trio with the, like, little stylus, you know. Yeah.

Yeah, to an iPhone. And I was also Android, too, right, the trio. I know. I think it was some I'm like I don't know. It had some weird operating systems. Yeah. It was not ideal.

Yeah. But in the time. It was innovative. Yeah. It was cutting edge. Yeah. So given all the adversity that you dealt with, what is it that kept you going to go

through like 10 years of pretty much not very lucrative. Not very lucrative at all, you know. And even got to a point where, you know, thought, well, this might be it. You know, it might, I might have to start over or do something different, you know. And then fortunately, we were able to kind of get control of the business again and start innovating and doing some cool things. But I think for me, what kept me going. You know, because I had many conversations about at home about go get a nine to five.

It'd be a great idea. And, you know, I just would sit there and think, I'll take and do that. You know, I think I'll go crazy. I'll lose my mind. We've got something that's really cool and I need to see it through. And, you know, I'm going to keep pushing and pivot and adjust as I need to. It's just you kind of have this. vision at the end and and I couldn't just like take a no or it's not going to work.

And so it was kind of just that not giving up. Yeah. That kept me going. But I think it was also like when you look at people around you that you love and you care about, you know, that gets you up in the morning. Not just the dog like poking your shoulder, you know, waking me up each morning. but it's that drive that, hey, I got people to support and take care of and, you know, provide opportunities for them. So I'm going to make this thing work one way or another and you get after it.

And never give up mentality that's just instilled in you. Did you have like a role model or anybody growing up that pushed you to be the way you are? So, yeah, there's several. You know, we won't get into, you know, too much of it here, but, you know, my dad was a big role model for me and, you know, his example. I spent a lot of time following him around and learning how he sold things. He was commercial real estate development and did all the leasing. And so I learned how to do the AutoCAD and I'd follow him around and go talk to tenants and draw up their space. and I listened to him and how he treated people and how he positioned things.

It was just, he was an awesome example and role model for me. But also my mom, you know, it's really interesting. She just had this constant, like, building me up as a kid. And just like, my mom thought I was the greatest. And she'd tell me this all the time. And I don't know that I was always the greatest at these things. But, man, my mom sent me up. on the door thinking than I was.

And so she gave me this confidence and support that just, you know, it was really pretty amazing, you know, and I look back at it today. And I'm appreciative of that because it's like, you know, like she made me think, you know, you can go get it done. You can go do it. You can go do it. You can go do anything you want. So those two are big.

third one is hanging up on your wall Michael Jordan was like my favorite ever and you know it didn't go over very well being from Utah because it beat the jazz and yeah yeah family was mad at me for cheering for the bowls when John Stockton was right there living in your neighborhood and Carl were right there and

Carl's still there yeah yeah and you know I wasn't cheering for him and yeah it was a sore subject in our house You know, but... Did you play basketball yourself? You know, yeah. Once again, it's probably my mom telling me, hey, you're good. You're good basketball.

So, yeah, sure, I played until my freshman year in high school. And after that, I... You still don't play anywhere? You don't play in the backyard with the kids. A little pickup game here and there, but... No, men's league. The end of my basketball career. We still have a men's league here.

Yeah, we still play. I don't. Actually, we had a game last night. Did you? I have to find out the verdict because I brought a ringer in. And I couldn't make the game last night, obviously, because I was with you. But I hope we won. Bring a ringer in, you better.

Yeah, because we needed a ringer. I mean, we're playing 40 plus. Well, actually, it's the D league, but in Newport Beach, you get really good players because the C league gets college athletes, the B league and the A league, like former NBA players. Yeah. You know, it's slightly out of my...

Yeah, yeah. But the D-League is still fun and, you know... So is like down like... No, no, no, this is a league with reps and everything. Legit. Yeah, yeah. It's not like down in Laguna. Guys get mad and they throw the ball at you.

You know, there's referees and you get ejected and you suspended the whole deal. Yeah, legit basketball. Yeah, legit basketball. It's fun. It's fun. Next time you're down, you know. We actually should have ran last night. I had thrown you in the court.

I had a jersey for you. I would have known. So you dealt with a lot of challenges setting up MMI. I didn't know the level of adversity that you actually endured because we forgot about mobility. And really, I thought you guys were just a new kid on the block in 2020. I forgot that you worked a decade before on mobility R.E. You know, it's, people just look at MMI as this powerhouse data aggregating company that just kind of monopolized the mortgage industry, forgot about the whole struggle and thought it was all triumphed the entire time. Right.

It's just, you know, hey, that overnight, you know, success. So you're not. Remind everyone that, you know, we slugged it out for 10 years and it was brutal. But, you know, we learned a lot and it turned us into who we are. And I think it also allowed us to really understand the data game in a completely different way than a lot of what we're seeing today. People come in again thinking, well, I'll just go buy up a bunch of data and throw it into a dashboard. And it's like, man, give it a shot. That's what all your competitors are doing.

I'm going to buy all the data from MMI from you. Just that shared login, right? And how hard could it be? It's just a very, very, very easy UI. I mean, a bunch of data and we'll just throw it in there. People figure it out. And so, you know, it's what we learned, what we were able to kind of do and structure that I think really has even still set us apart.

So again, you look through 10 years of struggle and, you know, trying to figure out what in the world, you know, we're going to do and how to make it work. And you don't realize at the time that that's what's going to. you know, really give you the tools and the knowledge and experience that really set us apart and let us grow the way that we did. And it was mind-blowing for me to see a new product get rolled out in the summer of 18. And by the summer of 19, it was doing more revenue than what nine years of, you know, mobility RE did combined, you know. So it was. It moved quick.

But I think that's when you know you got a cool product when all of a sudden you see that kind of growth. Yeah, I mean, you guys just catapulted. Catapulted with market share, catapulted with product development, catapulted with vision. Yeah. The vision now with MMI is like unreal.

You know, because now you took the synergy of a tech forward CRM that continually innovates, and now you're at it, you're stacking that with MMI's innovation. I just can't imagine what your dev team is doing right now. Pulling their hair out, you know, with all the random stuff we keep coming up with. They're like, all right, guys. I just met with Joe, and he just threw three more things at me. Exactly, exactly.

Just, you know, go play basketball. Don't talk about ideas. So, yeah, no, they are. They're doing an amazing job. Very cool products that are, you know, being built. and being worked on, you know, for future stuff, we always really kind of try to look ahead, you know, so a lot of the stuff that we're building now

and releasing now is stuff that, you know, will be beneficial also when, you know, there are refi opportunities and other things. So it's kind of that forward thinking, hey, let's make sure that we have all the stuff before everyone else is thinking about it, you know. So. You know, one thing I want to ask your opinion of, like, because you've been so resilient and managed to be very successful, is there any specific skill or a mindset that someone in the mortgage or tech sector has to have right now to really thrive?

Yeah, you know, I think endurance, you know, I mean, it's a grind. It's tough. But I think trying to be, you know, a little more efficient. and effective at where you're going to spend your time and what you're going to be doing. Obviously, volumes weigh down. It's harder to find the deals. And so, you know, doing things and looking in the places that, you know, you may have overlooked or not realized, right?

So it's kind of finding those opportunities that maybe you overlooked or neglected or did things And going back to those with some of the things that, you know, we can now provide, I think is a big thing. But it's also just that, you know, toughness of just, hey, you're going to do it. And this is, you know, and you hear it from everybody. Like, hey, down market, you're going to take market share and you're going to do this. It's like, yeah, you are. But it's hard. And, you know, you've got to do it by grinding it out.

and I think also preparing for these days when it's good times. And I think that's sometimes hard for people to do, you know. So it's a good reminder for all of us. You know, yeah, you guys are growing in like the worst mortgage environment. I was just chatting with the prior guests. Like they, you guys both managed to growing the worst mortgage environments historically. I mean, you did start your business during the recession. that's probably why it took you a decade to finally feed your family with that.

Yeah. That was it, you know. It's like, hey, start in the recession. It can only go up from there, right? Yeah. So, yeah, it is cool to see, but I feel like it's because we're helping the industry be more efficient. And elevate. Elevate, you know, and it's like, hey, things are tough now.

Here's where we should focus. and, you know, here's what we should do to make sure that we get the production we need and get the deals that we can get. So that's, you know, fortunate for us to be able to grow, but also to be able to help everybody. It's awesome. Now, after all the success you've had and, you know, you continue to grind like an animal, you're grinding every single day.

and you just now not only you're grinding every single day but you're grinding at a pace where you're like oh it's it's go time because now you're innovating at the speed of light because you guys are just like you're dropping all these innovations that probably would have taken you like 10 years to drop before right um how are you continuing to find that daily motivation yeah you know it's it's strange i i think when i talk to other people um that you know maybe my friends or people not in the space or you're you know, that aren't building companies, but, you know, I maybe I should have more hobbies. I love what I do. Like, every day to me is fun. Like, I don't feel like I'm working. I go into the office and, you know, we're solving things for clients for, you know, the company, building cool stuff. You know, I would take a day in the office over a day on the golf course. because to me it's fun.

And so, you know, there are challenges and tough times and tough days and you, you know, run into some hurdles. But when you love what you're doing and you have this, it just gives you a different drive, you know, it's, if I were punching the clock, it would have been really hard to slug it out this long. Yeah. It's something that you really enjoy. It's a different deal. So totally get it because we face that same adversity of like do I gotta go punch the clock during when the rates went up in 2018 and I was having my first kid or I was right around there or my second kid you know and as like my wife's like go get a regular job like this entrepreneur stuff is just a little crazy right yeah and make less money I'm like oh that's not me I can't clock in and now that's just not how I roll no I'd say yeah so you guys really have taken a big leap with AI

And you guys got like many different AI platforms. You're integrating, rolling out, building. How do you think AI is going to reshape market intelligence? You know, I think it's going to do some really, really cool things. When you think about the amount of data that's sitting, you know, in our platform. Yeah. And we've tried to create tools and, you know, search parameters to where you can kind of access some stuff pretty easily and point out things for you.

But, you know, when you look at how many opportunities there are that someone might not ever have any concept or idea of was there, AI can come in and process a whole lot of things and do a lot of these cool things that it finds that a human would have a hard time doing. Yeah. Yeah. I mean that amount of time digging.

Yeah. I can do it. And so I feel the AI component. into, you know, that much data and the opportunities is exciting. And then I also think kind of echoing the things that you want to tell your clients, you know, to be able to have help in doing that, you know, it's, so, you know, I think there's going to be some amazing innovations and I'm stoked about it. Yeah, there's going to be some cool stuff.

That's awesome. Now, real quick here, just to wrap up here because we're, we're, um, I have a, I like to close the show out with, uh, with a couple questions. Um, what is a, a personal goal that you have for yourself? What's a business goal that you have for MMI? Okay. And what's a goal that you have for the family? Okay. So, uh, personal goal first. Uh, you know, um, for me, uh, you know, I think there are, financial, like health, you know, physical, you know, those things. But, you know, for me more than anything, I think, on the personal goal, it's just something that I learned and I'll give credit to my dad on this. You know, no matter what kind of success or anything else you have, personal goal for me is to not have a person or scenario in my life

that I couldn't bump into at the grocery store and not feel great about the way that I've treated them, work with them, done anything. It's to not have a person where you try and avoid them because you had conflict with them. So for me, personal goal is to just treat people right, be good to everybody. And that's the goal.

And I think, you know, you do that. try to look at the positives, changes things can make you pretty happy. So that would be personal goal to just continue to try to live that and do that. On let's see, business goal, we got some big plans and ideas on the business side. And so, you know, I'll say some of the goals that we have, sometimes they say, you know, you should be almost embarrassed to talk about your goals because they should be so big. And I feel that way. I think the things that we're bringing to the table will revolutionize and change.

I think how deals transact and consumer interact with the lender, it's going to be really cool. So I would say to make a significant change in the process, but also make a significant change to maybe borrowers that haven't been able to buy a home to be able to help them to be able to because I think homeownership is life changing. It is. And it's generational. And so for me, that's a lot. goal that I would like our company to not only create cool things, but also to help people to achieve, you know, what has been, you know, I would say a huge blessing for me and my family. And so that kind of moves on to the family side of it. So we can wrap up. And, you know,

family goal for me is, you know, I watched a podcast. I interview a guy, very successful guy, and they said, what makes you, what, how do you define success? And he said, you know, my kids still want to come over to the house and see me and hang out with me, you know. And, you know, when you think about it, it's those relationships that matter. And so, you know, the goal for me is that I can parent and teach my kids in a way, you know, together with my wife, that they learn, but that they want to come hang out with us, you know. and still think you're cool that they still might actually think I'm cool and even if they don't they'll still come hang out you know so yeah yeah those would be the goals but I think that's it I love that and I share all those yeah and I and I'm with you on all of those uh one last closing question

before you adjourned we all face this question when you're in front of the pearly gates what do you think God's going to tell you oh man I know he's uh I have no idea. You know, he'll probably just look at me and be like, all right. Like, you're crazy, but you're here. So, you know, it's a fun ride. I know who you are, man. And I know you live a devout life.

And I know you're a godly guy. And, you know, you live a strict lifestyle that's really focused on serving others. And, you know, I have no doubt that, you know, God willing, we see. each other again in heaven and we're still going to hang out a lot here. We'll hang out here and you know play down. We'll be all up there too. Yeah, exactly. All right.

Yeah, well, look, this has been awesome. I appreciate you to have me out here and let me come on here. Ben, it's a blessing to have you. I look forward to all the success that MMI has, all of the collaboration and all the innovation that we're going to come up with together. I'm glad to be on the MMI bandwagon. I didn't know all the struggles and triumphs that you went through. God bless you and your vision and your mission and keep dominating.

Thank you. I appreciate it. All right. MMI, the best platform for data intelligence on the planet. Check it out. Ben Tierling. Thank you so much. Thanks.